Ivy League to ban Tackling in Practices

[RedFlash]

Not sure if this was reported previously or not, but the NY Times is reporting that Ivy Coaches have agreed to eliminate full contact hitting in practices. I wonder how many other conferences will follow suit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/sports/ncaafootball/ivy-league-moves-to-eliminate-tackling-at-practices.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

[Bisonator]

Might as well go to flag football and get it over.xrolleyesx

[Bill]

I wonder if NASCAR drivers will only practice full speed on race day.

Seriously, if true, I'm not a fan. I don't know how anyone could possibly become/stay proficient at tackling without ever actually doing it.

[RichH2]

Understand the rationale but this rule not the solution. Lehigh tried it a few years back. Did limit practice injuries but increased them in games. There is no way to teach proper technique without actually practicing it. To me, it is better football and safer for players to learn proper tackling techniques.
Lessening contact may be reasonable removing it altogether is asinine.
Of course, the rule will benfit PL squads with early season games vs Ivies. As Lehigh learned, no tackling practice led to poor tackling in games.

[clenz]

Will be interesting to watch injury rates in game moving forward compared to the past, and not just head injuries. I'm talking knees blown out, blown hamstrings, strained backs, etc...

As Rich pointed out, you can't practice at 50% and then just expect the body to be ready to go full blow on game day. That's a sure fire way to hurt someone/something

[Libertine]

Aside from spring and pre-season scrimmages, most schools -- as in the vast overwhelming majority -- don't live tackle to the ground during practice in-season anyway. Tackling is more about technique than it is actual hitting and you can practice the techniques without the incurring additional injury risk. That isn't to say there's no contact at all but they've learned that it's the dragging the ball carrier to the ground part where people get hurt.

[mvemjsunpx]

It only bans it during the season itself, so I'm not sure this is as big of a deal as it's being made out to be. I believe a lot of coaches have few to zero full-contact drills during the season now anyway. If this was including preseason camp it'd be different.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

If I'm not mistaken Nick Saban, Jimbo Fisher, among others do not have full contact practices.

I know when Willie Fritz came to Georgia Southern we stopped with tackling in practice and our tackling improved over what he had before.

[Go Green]

Hard to argue with the results thus far.

https://twitter.com/ECACSports/status/703033677211680768

[bluehenbillk]

Might as well go to flag football and get it over.xrolleyesx

If you want to watch real football its the LFL.

[Franks Tanks]

Will be interesting to watch injury rates in game moving forward compared to the past, and not just head injuries. I'm talking knees blown out, blown hamstrings, strained backs, etc...

As Rich pointed out, you can't practice at 50% and then just expect the body to be ready to go full blow on game day. That's a sure fire way to hurt someone/something

The NFL doesn't tackle in practice (obviously). Do the injuries you mention happen in the NFL due to not tackling in practice or other factors?

One does not really need to practice tacking constantly when one knows how to do it properly. Not every college players has sound technique however, and practicing on dummies can only do so much. I think this goes a little too far. I think it is very smart to limit tacking in practice, but college players do need to practice and develop their technique to some degree.

[RichH2]

The NFL doesn't tackle in practice (obviously). Do the injuries you mention happen in the NFL due to not tackling in practice or other factors?

One does not really need to practice tacking constantly when one knows how to do it properly. Not every college players has sound technique however, and practicing on dummies can only do so much. I think this goes a little too far. I think it is very smart to limit tacking in practice, but college players do need to practice and develop their technique to some degree.
+1

[bonarae]

Do you guys think that we are following the trend of some FBS teams? Or are many other teams, regardless of division status, still practicing tackling in practices? I'm not sure what to think of this.

[Bisonator]

If you want to watch real football its the LFL.

Is that still played? Haven't seen it for awhile. I miss it!:D

[UAalum72]

John Gagliardi didn't allow tackling in practice for over 50 years at St. John's U in Minnesota. Still won two NAIA championships, two D-III titles, and 27 conference titles.

[heath]

Do you guys think that we are following the trend of some FBS teams? Or are many other teams, regardless of division status, still practicing tackling in practices? I'm not sure what to think of this.
You are following the trend and the demise of the politically correct a$$ weeps that will ruin football as we know it. Liberals should stay out of activities and policies that they continue to corrupt. What a joke our country has dropped soooooooooooooo farxrotatehx( if there was a middle finger, you'd get thatxpeacex)

[Go Green]

You are following the trend and the demise of the politically correct a$$ weeps that will ruin football as we know it. Liberals should stay out of activities and policies that they continue to corrupt. What a joke our country has dropped soooooooooooooo farxrotatehx( if there was a middle finger, you'd get thatxpeacex)

Scoreboard.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/active/v/valparaiso/vs_conf_opponents.php?confid=87&restrictions=none

[ming01]

I wonder if NASCAR drivers will only practice full speed on race day.

Seriously, if true, I'm not a fan. I don't know how anyone could possibly become/stay proficient at tackling without ever actually doing it.

Just helps offenses even more.

[mvemjsunpx]

So… what exactly is an "a$$ weep?" xchinscratchx

[MR. CHICKEN]

So… what exactly is an "a$$ weep?" xchinscratchx


......DUH SQUIRTS?...........xdontknowx........BRAWK!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Ivy League better cut out "checking" in hockey also.

[2ram]

didn't chip kelley have a similar philosophy at oregon?

either way, i applaud the initiative, and am pretty sure i've gone on record saying the IL will ultimately be leaders in football safety.

someone has to be.

[kdinva]

Ivy League better cut out "checking" in hockey also.

POST OF THE WEEK!!! xthumbsupx xawesomex xbeerchugx

[344Johnson]

We didn't tackle in high school. We sucked. It didn't help or hinder our chances.

Makes me think to wrestling though. Head gear was required in competition but in practice a lot of people didn't wear it which defeated the purpose of wearing it at all. You practice a lot more than you play.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ivy League better cut out "checking" in hockey also.

Of course not, because everyone at Harvard and BU know the only sport with issues of contact and concussions is football. xrolleyesx

[ccd494]

Of course not, because everyone at Harvard and BU know the only sport with issues of contact and concussions is football. xrolleyesx

I sincerely doubt any NCAA hockey teams throw full bodychecks in practice.

[clenz]

I sincerely doubt any NCAA hockey teams throw full bodychecks in practice.
It doesn't take a full body check to get a concussion.
It doesn't take a massive hit to get a concussion in football.
2 of my concussions were from baseball. I was a catcher and took foul balls off the mask. Should catchers not take live reps anymore?
Soccer has a MASSIVE concussion issue and there is essentially no body checking/tackling happening there.
Every single XGAMES like event has major concussion issues.

One of the biggest myths perpetrated by the concussion hysteria right now (of which I am on the side of more research needs to happen, we need to do things to allow proper rest/recovery, we need more doctors to diagnose, etc...) is that they only happen in football and from big hits. Most concussions in football aren't even a result of the hit itself.

[ccd494]

It doesn't take a full body check to get a concussion.
It doesn't take a massive hit to get a concussion in football.
2 of my concussions were from baseball. I was a catcher and took foul balls off the mask. Should catchers not take live reps anymore?
Soccer has a MASSIVE concussion issue and there is essentially no body checking/tackling happening there.
Every single XGAMES like event has major concussion issues.

One of the biggest myths perpetrated by the concussion hysteria right now (of which I am on the side of more research needs to happen, we need to do things to allow proper rest/recovery, we need more doctors to diagnose, etc...) is that they only happen in football and from big hits. Most concussions in football aren't even a result of the hit itself.

That wasn't my point. LFN was doing his typical bitching about the Ivy taking hockey more seriously by saying that "well if football does it..."

I would further point out that the Ivy doesn't administer Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale, Brown, Princeton and Cornell's hockey conference.

[Go...gate]

I expect that the Patriot League will follow suit in some form or fashion.

[Bill]

I expect that the Patriot League will follow suit in some form or fashion.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22253&stc=1

[RichH2]

About ums it up Bill :):)

[RichH2]

Interesting article this AM in The Call. Noted that Ivy rep clarified new policy as basically the same policy as the PL has been using for years citing Lehigh and Lafayette. Coen specifically stated that in season there is no tackling at all. Instead both schools use "thud" drills contact but not to the ground. Lafayette has eliminated all full contact in and out of season practices. Lehigh does have limited full contact in Spring and preseason. Coen noted that this Spring will be more limited withh 11 players out rehabbing .

[Franks Tanks]

Interesting article this AM in The Call. Noted that Ivy rep clarified new policy as basically the same policy as the PL has been using for years citing Lehigh and Lafayette. Coen specifically stated that in season there is no tackling at all. Instead both schools use "thud" drills contact but not to the ground. Lafayette has eliminated all full contact in and out of season practices. Lehigh does have limited full contact in Spring and preseason. Coen noted that this Spring will be more limited withh 11 players out rehabbing .

Frank sure has changed. We used to wear full pads every day in spring, and fall camp was 2x per day every day with full pads. I understand the NCAA no longer allows consecutive days of doubles in fall camp, and hasn't for a while. There was limited tackling even back then, but it was always full go on the lines so we got beat up pretty good.

The pards have a lot to work on, especially the oline. A bit surprised we won't be doing some degree of full go technique work, but I suppose healh is a priority after last year so we shall see how it plays out. Frank is at least taking steps to address the injury plague we experienced last year. Hopefully our guys can get the necessary work in while staying healthy.

[clenz]

Are they banning the 3 point stance for lineman and limiting what kind of OL/DL drills they do?

[Franks Tanks]

Are they banning the 3 point stance for lineman and limiting what kind of OL/DL drills they do?

For Lafayette it appears that way. Not sure I agree, but last year we were completely decimated by injury, and perhaps this is a bit of an over reaction.

For the Ivies this just limits tacking. It is my understanding that there will still be contact on the line etc., just no tackling. Tackling is rare during the season anyway, and almost everyone seems to practice using "thud" these days anyway.

[clenz]

For Lafayette it appears that way. Not sure I agree, but last year we were completely decimated by injury, and perhaps this is a bit of an over reaction.

For the Ivies this just limits tacking. It is my understanding that there will still be contact on the line etc., just no tackling. Tackling is rare during the season anyway, and almost everyone seems to practice using "thud" these days anyway.
Researchers do understand that it's the repeated blows to the head that are the extreme majority of the issue, right?
I'm sure they also know that the place that 99% of the blows to the head take place is at the LOS with nearly 99% of those being a result of the 3 point stance.

Here's the thing with their reasoning I have issue with, and remember that I am generally siding with their thought process, it seems to be based entirely around the idea of the "big hit" that we see talked about on ESPN all day long. The WR coming across the middle. The DB going the knee of the ball carrier.

The guys upfront are forgot about.

[RichH2]

Agree clenz. Almost all of our concussed players are OL. Ss a distant 2nd and RB just behind.

[Go Green]

Agree clenz. Almost all of our concussed players are OL. Ss a distant 2nd and RB just behind.

Shouldn't the DL guys be somewhere on this list?

[neverobeyed]

John Gagliardi didn't allow tackling in practice for over 50 years at St. John's U in Minnesota. Still won two NAIA championships, two D-III titles, and 27 conference titles.

No tackling, no laps, no agility drills, no calling him "coach" (players called him John) ... nearly 500 wins later, he retired:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/john-jeansonne/the-unique-style-of-john-gagliardi-1.4261593

[Franks Tanks]

Researchers do understand that it's the repeated blows to the head that are the extreme majority of the issue, right?
I'm sure they also know that the place that 99% of the blows to the head take place is at the LOS with nearly 99% of those being a result of the 3 point stance.

Here's the thing with their reasoning I have issue with, and remember that I am generally siding with their thought process, it seems to be based entirely around the idea of the "big hit" that we see talked about on ESPN all day long. The WR coming across the middle. The DB going the knee of the ball carrier.

The guys upfront are forgot about.

I played on the OL too so I completely agree. The hundreds of sub-concussive hits (thousands over the course of a career) that take place on the line during a season, and at the LB position, centered around blocking are what probably cause the bulk of the damage. The big hits and the tackles are more visible I suppose, and they seems to be the focus. Perhaps because this area is easier to impact, and nobody has a solution for what happens on the line.

Tackling causes more injuries ligament, joint, bone injuries I would imagine due to the violent nature of the impact. It keeps guys healthy that season, but completely agree with the trauma being absorbed on the line every single play. I used to have a headache for 2 weeks straight during fall camp. I am assuming this is why I am so dumb today!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Worthy of mention here is the impact of artificial turf, now such a normal part of a college football program it's rarely talked about. Falling to the ground used to have some "give" because it was on grass and earth. Now it's on something hard and artificial. Also, it's contributed to the increase of speed in the game, which has also contributed to injury (more velocity of a player when tackling someone).

That's not to take away the OL/DL/LB "sub-concussive hits" issue that is also an excellent point.

[RichH2]

Shouldn't the DL guys be somewhere on this list?
You'd think so but no. Mostly shoulder and knees the past few years. Only one mild concussion that was reported. Knees also #1 with OL.

[clenz]

I played on the OL too so I completely agree. The hundreds of sub-concussive hits (thousands over the course of a career) that take place on the line during a season, and at the LB position, centered around blocking are what probably cause the bulk of the damage. The big hits and the tackles are more visible I suppose, and they seems to be the focus. Perhaps because this area is easier to impact, and nobody has a solution for what happens on the line.

Tackling causes more injuries ligament, joint, bone injuries I would imagine due to the violent nature of the impact. It keeps guys healthy that season, but completely agree with the trauma being absorbed on the line every single play. I used to have a headache for 2 weeks straight during fall camp. I am assuming this is why I am so dumb today!

LB and DL for me. Every practice was entirely chucking through blocks, taking on full backs or pulling OL.

I've said it elsewhere but I have almost no short term memory anymore and I would bet the full blown concussions and thousands of sub concussive hits from a decade of football and 15 years of catching in baseball took its toll on me.

At least that's my story and I'm sticking too it

[Bisonoline]

LB and DL for me. Every practice was entirely chucking through blocks, taking on full backs or pulling OL.

I've said it elsewhere but I have almost no short term memory anymore and I would bet the full blown concussions and thousands of sub concussive hits from a decade of football and 15 years of catching in baseball took its toll on me.

At least that's my story and I'm sticking too it

These two quotes show that everyone is different. As an o-lineman we were taught to stick our face in the numbers. No sliding of the head. With the d-lineman in the down position there were always head to collisions..In all the years I played I dont think I ever had a head ache. Im 63 and have damn good memory. Short term I think is pretty good. Even though I sometimes forget where I put stuff but Im told thats pretty common at my age.

[mvemjsunpx]

Worthy of mention here is the impact of artificial turf, now such a normal part of a college football program it's rarely talked about. Falling to the ground used to have some "give" because it was on grass and earth. Now it's on something hard and artificial. Also, it's contributed to the increase of speed in the game, which has also contributed to injury (more velocity of a player when tackling someone).

That's not to take away the OL/DL/LB "sub-concussive hits" issue that is also an excellent point.

Are you nuts? Modern artificial turf is, if anything, softer than grass/dirt. Virtually nobody plays on astroturf anymore.

[clenz]

Are you nuts? Modern artificial turf is, if anything, softer than grass/dirt. Virtually nobody plays on astroturf anymore.
Yup.

My college team moved practice from the grass practice fields to the field turf game field when it was cold enough for the ground to harden because it was softer and easier on the body

[mvemjsunpx]

Yup.

My college team moved practice from the grass practice fields to the field turf game field when it was cold enough for the ground to harden because it was softer and easier on the body

And it's been a big benefit to WaGriz, too. Prior to 2001, the field was basically just frozen dirt during the playoffs.