Why do so many people despise running tracks in their football stadiums?

[Marcus Garvey]

I realize that tracks push the stands back some distance, but it's not that much. Frankly, it's always made sense to me to put the track around the football field as it's a better a use of space, which allows more fields for other athletic teams. It's not like you're sitting in the back row of the 700 level of the Vet.

In I-A, many teams have eliminated their running tracks from the football satdiums, but that's only to shoe-horn in more stands. The existing seating does not get any closer as a result. Texas, Texas A&M, Ohio St. and Penn St. are teams that come to mind. All of them have moved their tracks out of the stadiums.

Why do so many people seem (to me at least) despise running tracks?

[89Hen]

Why do so many people seem (to me at least) despise running tracks?.... "tracks push the stands back some distance"

;)

[UAalum72]

That's just it, it's a compromise, like the round football/baseball stadiums of the early 70's. Adequate for both sports but ideal for neither. If you don't have the room or the money, put the track there, but if you want the best possible seating for your highest-attended outdoor sport, put the track around a practice field or the field hockey pitch.

[VictorG]

I love being close to the players and the field. It seems to keep the Griz fans into the game more.

[ccujacket]

It looks high school.

[Sly Fox]

Actually, at Texas (and I believe OSU as well) they lowered the field when they took out the track in order to add additional seating even closer to the field. And trying to squeeze even more fans into full stadiums was the primary motivation.

[TexasTerror]

The Univ of Texas has one helluva track stadium that operates much better without being at Darrell Royal Memorial Stadium. The Mike Meyers Complex hosts the Texas Relays and Texas HS State Championships. One of the premier facilities. It worked out better for them...

SHSU has our track around the football field. We just upgraded it for the SLC track and field championships, one of the finest run championships that the SLC has ever done too according to everyone you ask (i.e officials).

[ChickenMan]

Why do so many people seem (to me at least) despise running tracks?



Because Nova has a track around theirs... :p

[Retro]

1. It's an eyesore, especially during a game.

2. It does affect the atmosphere of the game if fans are further away.

3. If you have it separate, then the track team can also use it, which is not possible during football games, practices or events..

Did i mention it's an eyesore?

[Marcus Garvey]

3. If you have it separate, then the track team can also use it, which is not possible during football games, practices or events..

Did i mention it's an eyesore?

I thought Track & Field was a spring sport.

I guess the reason I'm so puzzled is I've never thought of it as an eyesore. Every high school stadium I played in had a track, so I suppose I was used to it. Hell, I remember the excitement at Moravian College when the ADDED a track to the football stadium. It allowed them to field a track program for the first time. Alfred University would love to have a track around Merril Field, but there's no room. Instead, the track team has to "borrow" a field from a nearby junior college.

[blukeys]

Del State has a track and you can be sitting in a box seat and it seems like you are 15 miles away from the action. If you have ever been to the Tub you are right on top of the benches and close to the action up to the 15th row. It really improves the atmosphere not to have a track.

[MR. CHICKEN]

TRACKS ARE FOR KIDS....OR IS DAT..TRIX?........:confused:................AWK!

[arkstfan]

Every stadium has a certain "pitch" to it. The stands are at whatever angle rising above the field. In a stadium with a track, the stands will normally start at about 7 to 10 feet above the sideline and rise at whatever pitch.

In a stadium with a track, let's say the first row is 8 feet above the sidelines and 15 feet from the side of the field. Not a bad view.

Now let's add a track. You are still 8 ft above but now 30 feet away.

#1. You've left some prime real estate unsold. #2. You've given the person in the front row a much worse view. It's not just the distance, it is the angle as well.

With a track you have a shallower angle to look down and more of the field is obstructed by the players on the sideline. Take the track out get closer and you have a better vantage point to be looking downward. Less of the field is obstructed by the players.

Now if you do like Arkansas or Texas and lower the field and rip out the track your seat hasn't moved but your view has improved because you are looking more down and less across and in turn less of your view is obstructed.

The real crime with tracks is if you have a stadium like the one at North Texas where the seats have a very low pitch. The guy halfway up the stands is even further from the field because you have a track and the lesser slope has him even further away than if the stands were more vertical.

Now you could have a track and not ruin the view but find a school that is willing to have its first row of seats 20 or 30 feet above the sidelines when they are cutting corners by having a track there in the first place.

Final point. Unless land costs are at an extreme premium you aren't really saving much having a track at the football stadium. The track portion is going to cost the same to build whether it is in the stadium or not. If you are serious about track you want a decent surface and that means an acclerated repair and maintenence schedule from having about 80 large guys in cleats standing, walking and jogging around on each straight away for 3+ hours for every game, practice or scrimmage held there.

To get a surface that will hold up to it, you have to get a more durable surface, ie a harder surface, that means higher injury risk to the track athletes and supposedly slower times. Slower times means fewer athletes qualifying for the NCAA's.

Put in a good surface and it won't last as long and worse, the inside lanes will be less consistent and slower than the outside lanes because most of the wear and tear will be closer to the field.

Even if the surface issues didn't exist what are you really saving? The cost of a few bleachers for the track and the cost of lights. But you don't need the caliber of lighting for track that you need for football and most football stadium lighting is designed to throw the max candlepower between the sidelines, not on the track. I'd say rare is the school that needs more than a 10th of the seating they have for football for track.

On top of that you have other issues. Where are you going to throw the shot and discus or hammer? Those events can destroy a football field.

So what you end up with is a subpar football facility and a subpar track facility. If you are serious you put them in different venues. The only institutions that should seriously consider a combo facility are those that are located in urban or other areas with very high land prices or those that have become so land-locked by development around the school that they just don't have the land to spare.

[Marcus Garvey]

The only institutions that should seriously consider a combo facility are those that are located in urban or other areas with very high land prices or those that have become so land-locked by development around the school that they just don't have the land to spare.

Which, I believe are the categories most schools with track/football facilities fall under. The 3rd would be money. If alumns and boosters don't pony up, then you can't have it both ways. :D

But 15 ft. ain't that far. Being "close up" on the action can be a problem too. I recall watching a Lehigh-Holy Cross game on TV back during HC's I-AA glory days. A player for one of the teams (I don't remember which one) got knocked into the wall at the base of the stands and was hurt. That never would have happened had the stands been back another 10-15 feet. Look at modern NFL stadia. The sideline stands are back about as far as any track stadium. This is too allow a regulation soccer field. The stands that generally suck in a track stadium are endzone stands. However, endzone stands are rare among I-AA stadia.

[therealbigredrules]

At Western the we have a track. But the field is not in the center. It is pushed as close to the 17,000 seats as posible. I would bet that you are closer to the action at Smith Stadium (even with the track) than you are at many others that do not have a track. With that said, the word on the street is that the first phase of the $35M upgrade is to move the track. Late fall of 06.

Now I know many on the board not only hate the track but also hate the one side stadium. Soon both will no longer be an issue. However, I too have no issue with the track given how close to the action you are at Western. No question our Admin was thinking ahead 35+ years ago with the placement of the field and also the flexibility to expand to the other side when ready.

http://www.wkusports.com/images/smithstadium.jpg

http://www.kmea.org/SMBC/SMBC03Info/WKUback.jpg

[arkstfan]

Is WKU taking the track out? Or will the stands on the opposite side just be WAAAY away from the field?

[colgate13]

The stands that generally suck in a track stadium are endzone stands. However, endzone stands are rare among I-AA stadia.

Interesting point. My favorite place to sit in Andy Kerr is the end zone seats but they are between the end zone and the track, so they're right in on the action. Plus, as a former linebacker I like to watch the game from this angle as opposed to the sideline.

From all the places I've been too, Lehigh is the best place to watch a game IMO.

[AgentOrange]

Yeah, I would figure that my main peeve for tracks in a football stadium would be that it eliminates the possibility of an effective end zone seating area.

Fortunately for us, we have the Couch Potatoes. Can't get much closer.

http://eteamz.active.com/bearkatsportsforum/images/Godfrey.jpg

[Marcus Garvey]

Plus, as a former linebacker I like to watch the game from this angle as opposed to the sideline.


I hear 'ya. My dad's Eagles season tickets were in the endzone. For those of us who like to break down game-play like a coach, that's the best view.

I went to the Insight Bowl at Bank One Ballpark in Phoenix a few years ago. I thought I'd get endzone seats, bad idea. I don't recommend them in a baseball stadium. The slope was so shallow that you really couldn't get a good view of what was happening on the field. The upside was that I was wearing the only Pitt shirt in a sea of Oregon St. orange and Pitt won! :D

[89Hen]

ArkStFan nailed it. If you've never been to Delaware, Montana, Princeton... stadiums where the front row is right above the players bench, you don't know what you're missing.

[eaglefan452]

I think the track around the stadium looks kinda tacky, and makes it look like a high school stadium. Reminds me of football fields that double as baseball fields, nothing worse looking than a running back being tackled as he slides into second base. No disrepsect to those who do have a track around the field, just my opinion.

[GannonFan]

In I-A, many teams have eliminated their running tracks from the football satdiums, but that's only to shoe-horn in more stands. The existing seating does not get any closer as a result. Texas, Texas A&M, Ohio St. and Penn St. are teams that come to mind. All of them have moved their tracks out of the stadiums.

Maybe I missed this, but when did Penn St have a track at Beaver Stadium???

[Golden Eagle]

I don't mind our track, though I also wouldn't mind being about 15 or 20 feet closer to the field.

At least it gives the cheerleaders plenty of room.

[GannonFan]

I don't mind our track, though I also wouldn't mind being about 15 or 20 feet closer to the field.

At least it gives the cheerleaders plenty of room.

Nah, the cheerleaders are better when it's up close and personal!!

[SoCon48]

It's not just cost, it involves the necessity of building another facility on an already crowded campus. The alternative is often to have to build another facility off campus, thus demoting a succesful track program to a second class status.

There is one particular I-AA school that SHOULD move the stands BACK so the fans can't reach the refs and players with the liquor bottles they throw.

[Red Hawk]

Missouri eliminated their track but you still sit frustratingly far from the field. On the other hand, stadiums like those at Arkansas you're right up on the field and it makes a world of difference in feel. It's the same as sitting in Busch stadium v. Wrigley field.

[Marcus Garvey]

Maybe I missed this, but when did Penn St have a track at Beaver Stadium???


They got rid of it in the mid 70's. It was still there when they moved the stadium to the edge of campus.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Interesting point. My favorite place to sit in Andy Kerr is the end zone seats but they are between the end zone and the track, so they're right in on the action. Plus, as a former linebacker I like to watch the game from this angle as opposed to the sideline.


I too enjoy watching football from the end zone angle. Much like watching hockey from the corners or behind the net. An interesting view of all the patterns being run.

UNH has always had a track around the gridiron, but when it was upgraded a few years ago, rows of seats were lost and the visitor's stands moved farther away from the field. In addition, the end zone bleachers were removed to make room for the pole vault and high jump pits. Today it is difficult to believe that Cowell Stadium once had a 15K capacity and the record attendance was 20K! (Lots of standing room between the bleachers on all four corners.)

One positive aspect of the track location was for the Cross Country team. They often had a home meet scheduled so that the finish would occur at half time of the football game. It gave the runners an opportunity to perform in front of crowds. It was pretty cool to hear thousands urging on a runner during his kick down the "home stretch"!!

[galojay]

Is WKU taking the track out? Or will the stands on the opposite side just be WAAAY away from the field?

Track is coming out, being moved to another site. The field is being moved closer to the stands.

[MR. CHICKEN]

WHAT DO YOU WEENIES DO....WHEN THE ACTION IS INSIDE THE OTHERAH TWENTY......PLAY "RACK-O"?.......................WAS FORCED TA SIT IN DUH ZONE.......LONG B/4 DA AVIAN PONIED UP FO' SEASON PASSES......COULDN'T SEE SQUAT AT DUH OTHERAH END.......AN' MRS. BIRD WAS MO' INTERESTED IN FASHION & HAND-BAGS....DAN DUH FRIGGIN' PIGGY CONTEST!................DOY!

[TxSt02]

I don't mind our track, though I also wouldn't mind being about 15 or 20 feet closer to the field.

At least it gives the cheerleaders plenty of room.

I went to Panama City a couple years back and partied with some of your cheerleaders. They were very fun to say the least...

[TxSt02]

If any of you have seen a game at Cal Poly you would know why you dont want a track around the field even their stadium wasnt thhe best. The place rocked it was so loud! The fans are right on top of the players.

[th0m]

JMU's Bridgeforth Stadium still has a track around the field, although it is not being used by the track and field teams anymore, they've got a new facility on the other side of campus. On one endzone we built an Athletic Performance Center, as you can see in the pic below, so the next obvious step is to get rid of the obsolete track. Only downer is the field can't be lowered due to the watertable there.

http://www.jmusports.com/Facilities/images/bridgeforth.jpg

[arkstfan]

Only downer is the field can't be lowered due to the watertable there.


My understanding is that North Texas has the same issue.

[Kill'em]

Bush League!

[Hammerhead]

I prefer being closer to the action. NDSU recyled the bleacher sections from our outdoor stadium to build a new track/soccer facility.

BTW, Dacotah field was kind of a high school stadium since it hosted every home game for the three high schools in Fargo. Each school even had its logo in each end zone.

http://cache.nmn.speedera.net/pics16/0/XA/XATDDXZRZLWZVZJ.20040824200423.jpg

[rokamortis]

How long did it take you to find this thread?

[appfan2008]

I was gonna say the same thing damn this thing is old... but of course no one likes tracks around the football field

[BearsCountry]

I wish we could rid of our track at Plaster as well. Put the track on another field so we can move soccer, track, and field hockey off our football field.

[crunifan]

The track in the UNI-Dome is under the turf. So in the winter for Indoor Track and Field, they roll up the turf and store it until football season.

That way, fans are literally above the team's benches.

[henfan]

A football field with a track around the field is a multi-purpose facility, not a football stadium.

[89Hen]

How long did it take you to find this thread?
No kidding. Hammerhead, I know it's a little slow in the off-season but ressurecting threads from nearly two years ago. xeyebrowx :p xthumbsupx

[MplsBison]

The track in the UNI-Dome is under the turf. So in the winter for Indoor Track and Field, they roll up the turf and store it until football season.

That way, fans are literally above the team's benches.


Are you going to get the fieldturf trays like Toronto has?

[HiHiYikas]

The track at KBS doesn't bother me. App's runners had national titles before the football players did (not to mention an Olympic medal). Maybe they should move the football field away from their track. xsmiley_wix

When I was 5 or 6 years old, it was nice to land on rubber when I jumped out onto the field after games. I miss those days when everybody got to go out onto the field after games. Of course, I don't miss the pool-table green turf.

I have been on row #1 at Chattanooga each of the past 2 years, and it is nice to be that close to the players without a track being in the way.

I guess I could go either way when it comes to KBS.

[SoCon48]

The track at KBS doesn't bother me. App's runners had national titles before the football players did (not to mention an Olympic medal). Maybe they should move the football field away from their track. xsmiley_wix

When I was 5 or 6 years old, it was nice to land on rubber when I jumped out onto the field after games. I miss those days when everybody got to go out onto the field after games. Of course, I don't miss the pool-table green turf.

I have been on row #1 at Chattanooga each of the past 2 years, and it is nice to be that close to the players without a track being in the way.

I guess I could go either way when it comes to KBS.

I agree. The track bothers me not in the least. It makes a good buffer from the field. I don't particularly like students being so close to the teams. If we can't make enough noise to reach the teams from a few more feet back, then heaven help us.

[DFW HOYA]

A football field with a track around the field is a multi-purpose facility, not a football stadium.

Some of the great old stadiums have tracks--Franklin Field comes to mind.

Geogetown could sure use a track since it doesn't have one, but it won't fit inside the footprint.

[appfan2008]

I think KBS would be greatly improved with out the track IMHO

[carney2]

Why do so many people seem (to me at least) despise running tracks?

I don't despise them. Actually, I never gave it much thought one way or the other until they re-did Lafayette's Fisher @ Fisher. The running track was removed, the visitors' stands were torn down, the playing surface was moved closer to the home stands, and new visitors' stands were built. The difference is remarkable. The entire setting is more intimate. You are up close and personal. It is a much better football venue; a much better place to see a game.

[appfan2008]

I don't despise them. Actually, I never gave it much thought one way or the other until they re-did Lafayette's Fisher @ Fisher. The running track was removed, the visitors' stands were torn down, the playing surface was moved closer to the home stands, and new visitors' stands were built. The difference is remarkable. The entire setting is more intimate. You are up close and personal. It is a much better football venue; a much better place to see a game.
xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx that is what i have been saying that app state should do...it would improve the place by ten foldxhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx xhurrayx

[lizrdgizrd]

I hope that they'll take out the track at KBS when they begin to redo the visitor's side. They could move the field up to to the home stands and add a bunch of seats on the visitors side without having to hang over Stadium Dr. Oh, and have bathrooms. xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

Some of the great old stadiums have tracks--Franklin Field comes to mind.
But that is a great old stadium because of the tradition. Not because it's a great football stadium. xtwocentsx

[appfan2008]

the best football stadiums do not have tracks around them... did you see how close to the field the fans were at montana during that semifinal game??? that was awesome!

[Cobblestone]

I realize that tracks push the stands back some distance

That is enough reason for me.

[ucdtim17]

This is what football stadiums should look like:

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Notre-Dame-Stadium-Photograph-C10106575.jpeg

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/images/stadiums/michigan2.jpg

http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/cal/graphics/memorial-pan-575.jpg

http://www.txchange.com/autzen.jpg

http://www.umt.edu/images/photolib/351_photo.jpg

not this:

http://www.uscaa.org/natls/2002/images/HornetStadium2(med).jpg

http://football.ballparks.com/NCAA/Pac10/Washington/interior.jpg

[lizrdgizrd]

Don't forget:

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/south_carolina/clemson_memorial2.jpg

[ucdtim17]

I'm partial to the clean 360 degree bowls (ND, Mich, Cal, etc). I hate those Big 12 stadiums (they seem to have a lot of them) that are bigger versions of a lot of FCS stadiums, with 2 or 3 giant stands parked next to a football field. The new Stanford stadium is beautiful though

http://john-reed.smugmug.com/photos/98026231-L.jpg

[csuBUC06]

it's ugly

[phillyAPP]

Can you imagine how loud it would be if the crowd gets closer to the field!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why is this a question? The track should be seperate !!

Franklin Field has THE PENN Relays and many other events to make it worth having together.

[MplsBison]

I'm partial to the clean 360 degree bowls (ND, Mich, Cal, etc). I hate those Big 12 stadiums (they seem to have a lot of them) that are bigger versions of a lot of FCS stadiums, with 2 or 3 giant stands parked next to a football field. The new Stanford stadium is beautiful though

http://john-reed.smugmug.com/photos/98026231-L.jpg

They really pack em in to see Stanford.

[Tod]

IMHO, a track is not that bad. Not the best, but...

If you're looking for the perfect stadium, I don't like the bowled stadiums like Yale and Cal. At the 50, you might as well have a track! I do like the stadiums like Oregon and Montana.

But Clemson, I think, shows the best design. The slight bow not only provides a little more room, but places the fans at just a slightly better angle.

xtwocentsx

[appfan2008]

I am not really a fan of Stanford's new stadium... almost too perfect for me and that crowd was ridiculous...

also clemson really does have one of the best stadiums in the country

[appfan2008]

This is what football stadiums should look like:

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/images/stadiums/michigan2.jpg


app is going there!

[ucdtim17]

They really pack em in to see Stanford.

They'll have no problem selling out every game when they're back to their traditional levels of mediocrity, which might be this year. It'll be tough to repeat last year

[GaSouthern]

It looks high school.

xnodx

[Marcus Garvey]

I stand by my eariler statement when I started this thread (nearly 2 years ago):

Unless you're going to pony up the money to get rid of the track, just enjoy the game while drinking a nice steaming cup of "shut the hell up!"

xlolx

[appfan2008]

I stand by my eariler statement when I started this thread (nearly 2 years ago):

Unless you're going to pony up the money to get rid of the track, just enjoy the game while drinking a nice steaming cup of "shut the hell up!"

xlolx
isnt that what this site is all about?

so we can come on here and vent because we dont have the money to actually do anything about it

[Marcus Garvey]

isnt that what this site is all about?

so we can come on here and vent because we dont have the money to actually do anything about it

Exactly... and for me to vent about your venting because you don't have any money to do anything about it.... xconfusedx I got lost there.

[McTailGator]

I realize that tracks push the stands back some distance, but it's not that much. Frankly, it's always made sense to me to put the track around the football field as it's a better a use of space, which allows more fields for other athletic teams. It's not like you're sitting in the back row of the 700 level of the Vet.

In I-A, many teams have eliminated their running tracks from the football satdiums, but that's only to shoe-horn in more stands. The existing seating does not get any closer as a result. Texas, Texas A&M, Ohio St. and Penn St. are teams that come to mind. All of them have moved their tracks out of the stadiums.

Why do so many people seem (to me at least) despise running tracks?


We like being RIGHT on top of the action, it improves the overall atmosphere in the stadium by quite a bit.


Interesting note,

All Texas Schools in the SLC have a Track as part of their stadiums.

All Louisiana Schools do NOT have tracks as part of their stadiums.

Not certain about Central Arkansas.

[appfan2008]

go louisiana slc teams!

[Za-KEE-uS]

We like being RIGHT on top of the action, it improves the overall atmosphere in the stadium by quite a bit.


Interesting note,

All Texas Schools in the SLC have a Track as part of their stadiums.

All Louisiana Schools do NOT have tracks as part of their stadiums.

Not certain about Central Arkansas.
http://www.ucafans.com/images/facilities/FootHome2B.jpg
No track there

[appfan2008]

http://www.ucafans.com/images/facilities/FootHome2B.jpg
No track there
that is actually a very pretty stadium...

question: do you fill it up at uca?

[813Jag]

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/louisiana/baton_rouge_mumford.jpg

I don't mind the track the only places that are bad are in the corners. If you sit there and the game is on the far end of the field you can't tell where the endzone is. As you can see in the picture.

[Kiss My Apps]

That is my biggest beef with tracks around stadiums. The absence of a curved sideline makes visibility limited in the lower level corners of KBS.

[phyrbirdphan]

When it comes to tracks around football stadiums, I can't believe no one mentioned D-1 new-comer, Winston-Salem State U's home field,concrete worn Bowman-Gray Stadium. this former home of high schools & Wake Forest has a 1/4 mile asphault NASCAR track complete with guardrails and pit-road. They still have a summer demolition derby on the playing field which is grass.
Recently I drove by this historic landmark (WPA project in the 30's), and lo and behold they were constructing a new field house. Our government at work.

[Za-KEE-uS]

that is actually a very pretty stadium...

question: do you fill it up at uca?
I'm not from UCA, but I found this pic
http://www.ucasports.com/gallery/msc-fb-estescrowd.jpg

[pantherclaw]

It looks high school.

Agreed, it looks bush league.

[appfan2008]

I'm not from UCA, but I found this pic
http://www.ucasports.com/gallery/msc-fb-estescrowd.jpg
well that aint bad then!

[appfan2008]

wow i am not good with moving the pictures over too here actually I can not figure it out at all but on world stadiums dot com there is an awesome picture of the race track/ football field known as bowman-gray
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/north_carolina/winston_salem_gray.shtml

[GeauxColonels]

Yeah. I like being close to the action too:
http://www.colonelsports.com/images/guidrystadium02.jpg

It's much better than playing at a stadium like this:
http://www.strathayr.com.au/images/turf/side/StrathAyr%20Systems%20Installations/4_010726_tgormstad_LG.jpg