Changes recommended for FCS playoffs

[Professor Chaos]

Some positive dialogue going on in advance on the meetings this week with all the FCS conference commissioners in Naples, FL.

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20160125162849374619204&ref=rec&tm=&src=FCS


[EWU AD] Chaves suggested expanding the seeds from eight to 16. Under the current selection format, a team that is ninth-strongest in the field is treated the same as the 24th team. Chaves cited Southern Utah and South Dakota State from the Missouri Valley as teams that had excellent regular seasons and were deserving of a home game in the first round. Both lost on the road in the first round.

Doubling the number of seeds would likely decrease how the playoff field has become increasingly regionalized in its matchups. Six of the eight second-round games this season had been played in the regular season, including three that matched teams from the same conferences.

To counter the potentially higher travel costs, Chaves suggested a slight raise in the minimum bid to host a playoff game.


Chaves also suggested giving everyone Thanksgiving weekend off due to poor attendance on games the Saturday after Thanksgiving. However, as the article pointed out this would mean the top 8 would have 3 weeks between their last regular season game and their first playoff (equivalent to the current break between the FCS semis and the championship game) and the semifinals have the potential to fall on or very shortly after Christmas so I don't see that happening.

I'd be a huge fan of seeding to 16 teams in line with his first suggestion. I've said before that seeding to 12 would be a massive improvement (and allow for a little more cost containment than seeding to 16) but the more seeds the better honestly.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Some positive dialogue going on in advance on the meetings this week with all the FCS conference commissioners in Naples, FL.

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20160125162849374619204&ref=rec&tm=&src=FCS



Chaves also suggested giving everyone Thanksgiving weekend off due to poor attendance on games the Saturday after Thanksgiving. However, as the article pointed out this would mean the top 8 would have 3 weeks between their last regular season game and their first playoff (equivalent to the current break between the FCS semis and the championship game) and the semifinals have the potential to fall on or very shortly after Christmas so I don't see that happening.

I'd be a huge fan of seeding to 16 teams in line with his first suggestion. I've said before that seeding to 12 would be a massive improvement (and allow for a little more cost containment than seeding to 16) but the more seeds the better honestly.

Would be great if it were to happen.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Please happen!!!

[X-Factor]

I'm glad it was an AD outside of the MVFC proposing this. That tells me there could be some momentum behind it.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

There was pretty widespread disgust with this year's bracket. It definitely
wasn't just a MVFC thing.

I'd just like to see them trim some fat. Get this puppy back down to 20 or less.

[PAllen]

There was pretty widespread disgust with this year's bracket. It definitely
wasn't just a MVFC thing.

I'd just like to see them trim some fat. Get this puppy back down to 20 or less.

Yes please.

[clenz]

There was pretty widespread disgust with this year's bracket. It definitely
wasn't just a MVFC thing.

I'd just like to see them trim some fat. Get this puppy back down to 20 or less.
20 would be great. Seed all 20. Higher seed hosts. NCAA gets a set cut of gate revenue.

Will never happen but...whatever.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Chaves wants first-round games moved from Thanksgiving weekend. His reasoning was that student-athletes involved would have the chance to enjoy the holiday and extra time for studies and the first-round hosts would have a better opportunity to sell tickets, with the traveling teams gaining additional time for their preparations.

This is the one that I would like to see happen. It makes sense on a lot of levels.

[RootinFerDukes]

Why stop at 16? I've been calling for 24 seeds since the last expansion.
I'm in favor of anything that cuts down on early round regional matchups and rematches.
The fairest thing to do would be to seed the entire field and to hell with the bidding process.
I know, they want to save money on a poorly attended, non-money maker.

[Professor Chaos]

This is the one that I would like to see happen. It makes sense on a lot of levels.
And those would be? The only thing I can think of is it gets rid of a horrible weekend for attendance. But does it help when we just swap it for an even worse weekend (weekend on or right after Christmas) for the national semis?

[BisonTru]

20 would be great. Seed all 20. Higher seed hosts. NCAA gets a set cut of gate revenue.

Will never happen but...whatever.

I like this idea. Maybe a little more doable, 20 teams seed 12. One big benefit of 20 teams is you eliminate half of the Thanksgiving weekend games which tend to be the biggest money losers of the tournament.

[UNHWildcat18]

20 would be great. Seed all 20. Higher seed hosts. NCAA gets a set cut of gate revenue.

Will never happen but...whatever.

I agree bring it back to 20.... I also think the NEC and pioneer league shouldn't have autos but not that the ncaa is going to change that either. 😁

[RootinFerDukes]

20 would be great. Seed all 20. Higher seed hosts. NCAA gets a set cut of gate revenue.

Will never happen but...whatever.

The pfl could keep their autobid, but only if no meac teams make the field again.

[RootinFerDukes]

And those would be? The only thing I can think of is it gets rid of a horrible weekend for attendance. But does it help when we just swap it for an even worse weekend (weekend on or right after Christmas) for the national semis?

Those are the games on national tv too. I'd rather maximize attendance for those games.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

And those would be? The only thing I can think of is it gets rid of a horrible weekend for attendance. But does it help when we just swap it for an even worse weekend (weekend on or right after Christmas) for the national semis?

Well, I suppose it is affecting less games that way at least.

[Bisonoline]

Why stop at 16? I've been calling for 24 seeds since the last expansion.
I'm in favor of anything that cuts down on early round regional matchups and rematches.
The fairest thing to do would be to seed the entire field and to hell with the bidding process.
I know, they want to save money on a poorly attended, non-money maker.

You can still seed every team and have the bidding process.

[IBleedYellow]

Disagree with getting rid of the Thanksgiving games.

Keep those, have the semi's where they currently are. Those are the games we want to be heavily attended - the ones actually on ESPN networks (not 3).

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'm not convinced that moving playoff games from Thanksgiving weekend will really improve attendance. I feel the first round games will always be lightly attended when there's a 24 team playoff. It's easier to get people on board when there's a sense finality or raised stakes. IMO, there's a lot of "if they win this week, we'll go next week" mentality when it comes to the opening round games under the current format. Of course there's a few select schools that will get people out regardless.

[dewey]

I'm glad it was an AD outside of the MVFC proposing this. That tells me there could be some momentum behind it.

Agreed! I hope the top 16 get seeded to start.

Dewey

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Give people two weeks to plan for a playoff date and watch attendance soar.

I would bet a duck dinner that attendance at the FCS semi's attendance would not be affected one whit by: 1) moving the date out a week, and 2) bowl games. What is more at issue is ESPN's willingness to broadcast the game(s) during a crowded bowl-day calendar.

[Bisonoline]

Give people two weeks to plan for a playoff date and watch attendance soar.

I would bet a duck dinner that attendance at the FCS semi's attendance would not be affected one whit by: 1) moving the date out a week, and 2) bowl games. What is more at issue is ESPN's willingness to broadcast the game(s) during a crowded bowl-day calendar.

I also doubt moving the date out another week would increase attendance for a play in game.

[JayJ79]

You can still seed every team and have the bidding process.

are you suggesting that seeding should no longer determine who gets to host?

[bluehenbillk]

I agree with seeding more teams - that's a no-brainer, and also agree with how you pay for it from the NCAA's point of view - you jack up the bid requirements to host a game.

I disagree with the extra week off - teams don't need to sit for 3 weeks. Instead narrow the field to 20, let's face it 6-5 teams have ZERO reason to be in the playoff field. Those of us that participate in the AGS Poll know that the most difficult rankings typically are 21-25 anyway as you're dealing with dreck.

[RootinFerDukes]

You can still seed every team and have the bidding process.

What would be the point? Higher seeds get the home field advantage. 24 at 9, 23 at 10, etc.

[Smitty]

I don't know... Considering all the activities and traveling people do during the Thanksgiving holiday, you may see a small increase. I know I couldn't go to a game because of family obligations. Of course WCU hasn't been to the playoffs since '83 and I haven't been to one so I'm not entirely sure I'm qualified to give a response.

[AmsterBison]

Disagree with getting rid of the Thanksgiving games.

Keep those, have the semi's where they currently are. Those are the games we want to be heavily attended - the ones actually on ESPN networks (not 3).

^ this. While Thanksgiving is an awful time to have a football game because the students have all gone home, the time between Christmas and Jan. 1 is worse.

[F'N Hawks]

From what we have seen of the committees, what makes people think that they wouldn't take liberties with the seeding process and get the matchups they want? Easy to do with a group of 3-4 teams that have same record.

[Professor Chaos]

Give people two weeks to plan for a playoff date and watch attendance soar.

I would bet a duck dinner that attendance at the FCS semi's attendance would not be affected one whit by: 1) moving the date out a week, and 2) bowl games. What is more at issue is ESPN's willingness to broadcast the game(s) during a crowded bowl-day calendar.
Really??? You don't think attendance for the semis would've been different this year if Richmond played NDSU on Friday December 25th instead of Friday December 18th? Or if SHSU and JSU played on Saturday December 26th instead of the Saturday December 19th? Because I'd bet you much more than a duck dinner on that.

Sure, you give the first round teams an extra week to sell tickets but now you're making the top 8 teams (who are the real title contenders anyway) wait 3 weeks in between games. Every year I hear people complain about the break between the semis and the title game and this would give that same layoff to 8 teams instead of two.

The only way I see this proposal of giving everyone Thanksgiving weekend off working is if they contract the playoffs back down to 16 so there only needs to be 3 weekends of playoffs to set the championship teams.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Really??? You don't think attendance for the semis would've been different this year if Richmond played NDSU on Friday December 25th instead of Friday December 18th? Or if SHSU and JSU played on Saturday December 26th instead of the Saturday December 19th? Because I'd bet you much more than a duck dinner on that.

Sure, you give the first round teams an extra week to sell tickets but now you're making the top 8 teams (who are the real title contenders anyway) wait 3 weeks in between games. Every year I hear people complain about the break between the semis and the title game and this would give that same layoff to 8 teams instead of two.

The only way I see this proposal of giving everyone Thanksgiving weekend off is if they contract the playoffs back down to 16 so there only needs to be 3 weekends of playoffs to set the championship teams.

Maybe not Christmas day, but what if it were the 27th and 28th? Again, the main (only) consideration here for the folks talking about this is TV, not academics or "playoff integrity". FCS semis fill a programming hole in ESPN's schedule, not so much the 27th and 28th of December.

As a fan of a team that plays a "meaningful Rivalry game" the final week of the season, I think the extra week off would be really great for teams involved with that to come down a bit from the emotion of that game. You can't tell me William and Mary wasn't worn down after their historic season finale this season and then had to turn around in six days to play Duquesne, who came a whisker away from beating them.

[Professor Chaos]

Maybe not Christmas day, but what if it were the 27th and 28th?
That would be better but I'd still think you'd see a big downtick in attendance, at least for NDSU. Not only does it make it difficult for out-of-towners to come for a mid-week game but you have the students all gone on Christmas break and probably a good chunk of other fans traveling for the holidays.

[JayJ79]

From what we have seen of the committees, what makes people think that they wouldn't take liberties with the seeding process and get the matchups they want? Easy to do with a group of 3-4 teams that have same record.

oh, there will definitely be some of that. (there already is with the current 8-seed setup)

but currently, what is essentially the #9 team could have to face the #10 team (and then possibly have that winner go on to face the #1 team), while the #23 team could face the #24 team (and move on to the #8 team). Seeding more teams would eliminate that possibility

[Professor Chaos]

From what we have seen of the committees, what makes people think that they wouldn't take liberties with the seeding process and get the matchups they want? Easy to do with a group of 3-4 teams that have same record.


oh, there will definitely be some of that. (there already is with the current 8-seed setup)

but currently, what is essentially the #9 team could have to face the #10 team (and then possibly have that winner go on to face the #1 team), while the #23 team could face the #24 team (and move on to the #8 team). Seeding more teams would eliminate that possibility
It would also be a much bigger talking point. I'm sure no one on the committee wants to have their integrity questioned and with the current format they have the built-in "our hands are tied by regionalization" excuse that really isn't arguable. Seeding to 16 would force them to back up the majority of the bracket with on-the-field reasoning and they'll be scrutinized for it which will make them better at it.

Ask anyone who does the AGS poll and has the guts to put their ballot in the poll thread for criticism. You get much better at ranking teams when you have to justify why you put a team where you did purely based on that team's performance relative to teams around it.

[RootinFerDukes]

From what we have seen of the committees, what makes people think that they wouldn't take liberties with the seeding process and get the matchups they want? Easy to do with a group of 3-4 teams that have same record.
I fully expect this to happen when it comes down to it. They will still prefer regionalization of teams if at all possible. If they can pair up WIU and UNI together by arguing that 7-4 WIU was more of a 16 seed than 9-2 Lehigh, for example, they'd get their regional matchup and a chance to save money.

[RootinFerDukes]

Sure, you give the first round teams an extra week to sell tickets but now you're making the top 8 teams (who are the real title contenders anyway) wait 3 weeks in between games. Every year I hear people complain about the break between the semis and the title game and this would give that same layoff to 8 teams instead of two.
It would result in two layoffs for a potential team. One 3 week layoff for a top 8 seed at the front end and a 2 week layoff for teams going to the championship game on the back end.... assuming it isn't pushed back further. I also wouldn't be in favor of pushing it back past the FBS title game because anyone casually watching CFB would have mentally tuned out by that point. It would get even worse ratings on TV and even less media attention.

[RootinFerDukes]

For the attendance argument, I think that moving the first round games away from thanksgiving weekend is a bad idea. All games are currently on ESPN3. The viewership of those games are limited to the immediate fan bases and a very small contingent of FCS or same-conference fans that are tuning in for casual interest (let's be honest, not really anyone that isn't a member of this message board or Championship Subdivision).

Meanwhile, you have quarterfinal games pushed back closer to the holidays on 12/19 while semi-finals are pushed back to 12/26 (if it were this year for example). Both of those rounds have games on national tv channels, ESPN2 or ESPNU. NO ONE will show up, I repeat NO ONE, for games anywhere within half a week before Christmas Day through half a week after New Years Day. Not for FCS football. I'm sorry. It's the truth.

JMU is one of the top attendance FCS programs and has been a top 5 attended program since 2011. In 2014, we had a thanksgiving weekend first round game against in-state rival Liberty and the attendance was 13k. That was with about 4k of that being liberty fans in attendance.
In 2015, we had a second round game against Colgate, a team lacking much name recognition, although you could say that about almost any remaining FCS team. We had 15k fans show up, with maybe 1k of that being Colgate fans.
If a top 5 program can't bring more than 15k fans to a game with two weeks notice and no holiday "excuse", what makes you think that attendance would improve for most programs nationally by waiting another week? We're talking 1-2k more people at most schools.
You will be seeing half full stadiums at best on a christmas weekend game, and that is being generous. The attendance will be worse for a Christmas-New Years game than it would be for a thanksgiving game.
Just look at many of the poorly attended bowl games and that is with 3+ weeks notice and the guise of "big boy football" and "big event bowl games", "national tv ESPN BABY!"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Something else to think about, something that RFD just brought up, but should be a formal question - how much does ESPN drive up attendance in it's own right? Let's say every FCS playoff game were on some ESPN station. Would attendance be better, worse, or about the same?

If the answer is "ESPN and ESPN2 drive up attendance anyway," moving the semis out a week should have little to no effect on attendance, since the allure of hosting an ESPN/ESPN2 game would be the same whether it's the week before Christmas or the week in between Christmas and New Year's.

Having said that, there are some places where it simply wouldn't matter. Villanova could host a game on ESPN and they'd still have problems. I attended the Villanova/William and Mary FCS semifinal game and it really didn't matter that it was on ESPN2. It was cold and dark and they still couldn't top 5,000 in the seats. It was a great game, too - the press box was packed.

[RootinFerDukes]

I will say that ESPN games don't make the game any "sexier" to attend for a fan. If anything it makes them more likely to choose to watch it on tv instead.
ESPN College Gameday on your campus does sell tickets though, that's for damn sure. Half the people at the game probably thought it was on the main ESPN channel. I'd imagine an FCS kickoff would sell out too for the TV allure.
Postseason football is different because it isn't as "big marque" as a gameday appearance and you don't have an entire off-season of time to buy tickets for a kickoff game.

[Professor Chaos]

I will say that ESPN games don't make the game any "sexier" to attend for a fan. If anything it makes them more likely to choose to watch it on tv instead.
ESPN College Gameday on your campus does sell tickets though, that's for damn sure. Half the people at the game probably thought it was on the main ESPN channel.
Agreed, I don't think having the game broadcast on any of the ESPN networks necessarily helps attendance all that much. There may be a few people who would want to go and hope they are seen but they are probably offset by the people who decide not to go because they can just watch it on TV (in places where their FCS team isn't usually on TV).

At NDSU, it adds excitement to a game but a national quarter or semi in Fargo will sell out easily whether it's broadcast by ESPN, TruTV, or not at all.

[JayJ79]

It would also be a much bigger talking point. I'm sure no one on the committee wants to have their integrity questioned and with the current format they have the built-in "our hands are tied by regionalization" excuse that really isn't arguable. Seeding to 16 would force them to back up the majority of the bracket with on-the-field reasoning and they'll be scrutinized for it which will make them better at it.

Ask anyone who does the AGS poll and has the guts to put their ballot in the poll thread for criticism. You get much better at ranking teams when you have to justify why you put a team where you did purely based on that team's performance relative to teams around it.

Would it be a bigger talking point? People already scrutinize, criticize, and question the integrity of the seedings and matchups. I don't see that changing, even if they do change the seeding format. It might eliminate some of the most egregious disparities, but there will still be plenty of headscratchers and handwringing.

I'm not opposed to this type of format change, but it isn't going to be some sort of panacea, and I'm not holding my breath on it happening anyway.

[Professor Chaos]

Would it be a bigger talking point? People already scrutinize, criticize, and question the integrity of the seedings and matchups. I don't see that changing, even if they do change the seeding format. It might eliminate some of the most egregious disparities, but there will still be plenty of headscratchers and handwringing.

I'm not opposed to this type of format change, but it isn't going to be some sort of panacea, and I'm not holding my breath on it happening anyway.
There will still be plenty of bellyaching about where teams were placed but at least we can have the arguments be based on the performance of those teams over the course of the season rather than falling back on the "we had to do it that way cuz geography" excuse.

[IBleedYellow]

For the attendance argument, I think that moving the first round games away from thanksgiving weekend is a bad idea. All games are currently on ESPN3. The viewership of those games are limited to the immediate fan bases and a very small contingent of FCS or same-conference fans that are tuning in for casual interest (let's be honest, not really anyone that isn't a member of this message board or Championship Subdivision).

Meanwhile, you have quarterfinal games pushed back closer to the holidays on 12/19 while semi-finals are pushed back to 12/26 (if it were this year for example). Both of those rounds have games on national tv channels, ESPN2 or ESPNU. NO ONE will show up, I repeat NO ONE, for games anywhere within half a week before Christmas Day through half a week after New Years Day. Not for FCS football. I'm sorry. It's the truth.

JMU is one of the top attendance FCS programs and has been a top 5 attended program since 2011. In 2014, we had a thanksgiving weekend first round game against in-state rival Liberty and the attendance was 13k. That was with about 4k of that being liberty fans in attendance.
In 2015, we had a second round game against Colgate, a team lacking much name recognition, although you could say that about almost any remaining FCS team. We had 15k fans show up, with maybe 1k of that being Colgate fans.
If a top 5 program can't bring more than 15k fans to a game with two weeks notice and no holiday "excuse", what makes you think that attendance would improve for most programs nationally by waiting another week? We're talking 1-2k more people at most schools.
You will be seeing half full stadiums at best on a christmas weekend game, and that is being generous. The attendance will be worse for a Christmas-New Years game than it would be for a thanksgiving game.
Just look at many of the poorly attended bowl games and that is with 3+ weeks notice and the guise of "big boy football" and "big event bowl games", "national tv ESPN BABY!"
You're 100% correct on all points.

I have no idea why someone thinks it would be a good idea to move football games closer to the biggest holiday season of the year. That's just idiotic.

Let's not forget to bring the STUDENT athletes into the equation. Taking that family time away isn't right.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You're 100% correct on all points.

I have no idea why someone thinks it would be a good idea to move football games closer to the biggest holiday season of the year. That's just idiotic.

Let's not forget to bring the STUDENT athletes into the equation. Taking that family time away isn't right.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

This being written by a fan of a team that hasn't had to worry pretty much ever about a playing a game over Thanksgiving. Get some glasses.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One other thing that just came to mind. Not that this would happen now because of their commitment to the Celebration Bowl, but one of the the criticisms levied by the SWAC against the playoff structure was that it interrupted classic Thanksgiving matchups like Grambling/Southern. If the playoffs were shifted out a week, there might be more groundswell again towards the SWAC and MEAC rejoining the playoffs.

[mvemjsunpx]

My thoughts


- 24 teams is perfect for right now. Expanding things further is pointless unless there's a mass dropdown of G5 teams or something.

- 16 teams is a bad idea, IMO. I believe every conference that qualifies & wants an auto-bid should get one, just like basketball.

- 20 teams is also inferior to 24 because it creates the strange scenario where less than half the field plays in the first round. Keeping it at 24 also opens the door for a couple new auto-bids without having to change the system (maybe the Ivy presidents will pull their heads out someday, maybe the MEAC will split over the Celebration Bowl decision, etc.).

- Despite the fact the current bid system favors the Griz, I'd prefer as many teams were seeded as possible. That also neutralizes the "dead weight" argument from people who think the field should shrink. Rather than regionally lucking into a matchup with a PFL team, for example, the #9-seed that most deserves the virtual bye would get it.

[IBleedYellow]

This being written by a fan of a team that hasn't had to worry pretty much ever about a playing a game over Thanksgiving. Get some glasses.

Team played on Thanksgiving weekend in 2010. We had 12k fans there. Imagine how we'd have done around Christmas.

I'm still not complaining about those numbers, but Thanksgiving is the best of the two options, and it's not even close.

[BisonTru]

Edit: Forgot about the the NEC AQ

Here are a couple mock ups of what the field would look like if we went down to 20 teams with less regionalization. I used the AGS poll to determine seeding beyond what the committee did as well as which teams made it in. The 20 team fully seeded looks the best, but the 20 team 12 seeded might be more realistically approved by NCAA.

Top Bracket - 20 Team Fully Seeded Bottom Bracket - 20 Team 12 Seeded 8 Regionalized


http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22143&stc=1


http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22144&stc=1\

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not for nothing but The Citadel has a brtual schedule there with two first-round games.

[RootinFerDukes]

Another negative of later games that no one has mentioned, the weather. The later in the year, the worse the weather tends to be as we enter winter. Fairweather fans are less likely to attend when it's cold, raining or snowing. Less daylight each day, etc.

[BisonTru]

My previous post forgot about the NEC AQ. Here's the edited versions. Fordham out, Duquense in.

Top Bracket - 20 Team Fully Seeded
Bottom Bracket - 20 Team 12 Seeded 8 Regionalized

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22145&stc=1http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22146&stc=1

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Your bracket illustrates perfectly the problems that arise when you start seeding the playoffs. Suppose, unlikely as it may seem, Duquesne makes a run through the playoffs in your bracket. Their path to the championship involves heading first to Johnson Hagood, SC, then to North Dakota State, THEN possibly Portland State. That's a brutal path without a single game even close to an area where a local Duquesne fan might even think about attending a game.

[dewey]

Your bracket illustrates perfectly the problems that arise when you start seeding the playoffs. Suppose, unlikely as it may seem, Duquesne makes a run through the playoffs in your bracket. Their path to the championship involves heading first to Johnson Hagood, SC, then to North Dakota State, THEN possibly Portland State. That's a brutal path without a single game even close to an area where a local Duquesne fan might even think about attending a game.

If a team wants to have games closer to home win more games. Simple as that.

Dewey

[UNIFanSince1983]

Your bracket illustrates perfectly the problems that arise when you start seeding the playoffs. Suppose, unlikely as it may seem, Duquesne makes a run through the playoffs in your bracket. Their path to the championship involves heading first to Johnson Hagood, SC, then to North Dakota State, THEN possibly Portland State. That's a brutal path without a single game even close to an area where a local Duquesne fan might even think about attending a game.

If you are 19th out of 20 you should have brutal stretch. Why if you are the 2nd to last team in should you get any advantages?

Edit: Also in 2014 Duquense averaged 1,380 fans per game. Why should I be concerned with if they can attend an away game when they don't even attend their home games? (Yes I know it was 2014 couldn't find 2015 attendance on the NCAA site).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If a team wants to have games closer to home win more games. Simple as that.

Dewey


If you are 19th out of 20 you should have brutal stretch. Why if you are the 2nd to last team in should you get any advantages?

Duquesne still had a pretty brutal stretch through William and Mary and (had they won) Richmond. Two games that were actually possible for Duquense fans to attend.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Duquesne still had a pretty brutal stretch through William and Mary and (had they won) Richmond. Two games that were actually possible for Duquense fans to attend.

I edited my post but the year before they only averaged 1380 people at home games. What gives me an indication they are going to travel to away games in the playoffs?

[dewey]

Duquesne still had a pretty brutal stretch through William and Mary and (had they won) Richmond. Two games that were actually possible for Duquense fans to attend.

So if SDSU ends the season at ##9 they should get feed through NDSU since it is a close game for their fans to attend? I respect your thoughts on a lot of things but this I think you are wrong. The NCAA should expand seeding to the top 12 to 16 teams. So that way a team outside the top 8 doesn't get feed through a seeded team in the second round just because they are close to each other. Then there is no benefit of challenging yourself in the OOC or playing an FBS.

IMHO....Dewey

[BisonTru]

Your bracket illustrates perfectly the problems that arise when you start seeding the playoffs. Suppose, unlikely as it may seem, Duquesne makes a run through the playoffs in your bracket. Their path to the championship involves heading first to Johnson Hagood, SC, then to North Dakota State, THEN possibly Portland State. That's a brutal path without a single game even close to an area where a local Duquesne fan might even think about attending a game.

Nothings perfect and someone won't like their draw. With the regionalized round 1 bracket Southern Utah and Sam Houston St are paired yet they are both two of the first teams left out of the seeds and Duquesne and Dayton would get paired despite being two of the worst teams in the field. IMO, a fully seeded bracket is the fairest way to go, but unfortunately this tournament will have some cost containment. So the second bracket may be the most reasonable one we could request. Is this better than what we have now?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So if SDSU ends the season at ##9 they should get feed through NDSU since it is a close game for their fans to attend? I respect your thoughts on a lot of things but this I think you are wrong. The NCAA should expand seeding to the top 12 to 16 teams. So that way a team outside the top 8 doesn't get feed through a seeded team in the second round just because they are close to each other. Then there is no benefit of challenging yourself in the OOC or playing an FBS.

IMHO....Dewey

My thought, in reality is this:

* Scrap expanded seeding
* Scrap strict regionalization

Give the committee the freedom to regoinalize where it makes sense (ex. Duquesne at William and Mary), and scrap it were it doesn't (year after year of potential NDSU/SDSU matchups). Attempt to avoid conference matchups until the semis at best or quarters at worst.

I see expansion of seeding as propagating the real problem, which is tying the hands of human beings by strict adherance to dogma.

[clenz]

Your bracket illustrates perfectly the problems that arise when you start seeding the playoffs. Suppose, unlikely as it may seem, Duquesne makes a run through the playoffs in your bracket. Their path to the championship involves heading first to Johnson Hagood, SC, then to North Dakota State, THEN possibly Portland State. That's a brutal path without a single game even close to an area where a local Duquesne fan might even think about attending a game.
Last year Illinois State went

Normal, IL
Cheney, WA
Durham, NH
Frisco Texas

Keep in mind that a red hot UNI team lost that game in Normal. Had they won the road may have been Cedar Falls, IA, Normal, IL, Cheney, WA, Durham, NH

Towson went Towso, EIU, EWU, Frisco in 2013
SHSU went SHSU, Montana State, EWU, Frisco in 2012
Richmond went Richmond, App State, UNI, Title in 08
UD went Delaware, Cedar Falls, Soutern Illinois, title game in 07..and between UNI and SIU there was a massive snow/ice storm that didn't let UD out of CF until Mon AM
UNI went UNI, UNH, Texas State, title game in 05



That's not uncommon. That's the screwed up part of regionalisation. It either punishes teams for being close to other good teams while rewarding those bunched together that aren't as strong OR ends up sending teams across the country back and every week anyway.

[RootinFerDukes]

Duquesne still had a pretty brutal stretch through William and Mary and (had they won) Richmond. Two games that were actually possible for Duquense fans to attend.
You do realize you're using an example consisting of 2015's worst attended FCS program, right? They shouldn't be making decisions that affect the 1.3k fans that show up to Duquesne home games in 2015.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You do realize you're using an example consisting of 2015's worst attended FCS program, right? They shouldn't be making decisions that affect the 1.3k fans that show up to Duquesne home games in 2015.

But they should for the higher-attended programs, right? You can't say that Duquesne fans ought to be punished because the FCS committee likes Illinois State's fans more.

Expanded seeding will only make such decisions worse. What I have seen is that people love expanded seeding until they are sent to Colgate in mid-December.

[RootinFerDukes]

Your seed is going to be roughly based on your conference's current standing in the national landscape, strength of schedule rating, national poll rankings and your overall performance throughout a season (wins and losses). That is as fair as it gets. A lower seeded team should be on the road more and facing tougher teams on their way to the championship.

If you don't like it, schedule up and then win, win, win. It really is that simple.

[Professor Chaos]

I would guess that SDSU (fans included) would rather be sent to Maine or Cal Poly and have a few dozen fans attend than be sent to Fargo again for a second round matchup and actually be within driving distance to attend.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Your seed is going to be roughly based on your conference's current standing in the national landscape, strength of schedule rating, national poll rankings and your overall performance throughout a season (wins and losses). That is as fair as it gets. A lower seeded team should be on the road more and facing tougher teams on their way to the championship.

If you don't like it, schedule up and then win, win, win. It really is that simple.

Is it any less fair to have Duquesne be able to bus to a couple of games?

Based on STATS FCS Top 25 going into the playoffs, the way it broke for Duquesne, they played #13, and had they won they would have played #12. Both are games that are bus trips. For them you'd be replacing it with a thousand-mile flight to #18, and had they won they would have played #2, with it being very difficult for Duquesne fans to attend as well.

I'm not saying that Duquesne deserves an easy road to the championship. I am saying, what is wrong with having the option of sending them to William and Mary over being forced to ship them to The Citadel?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I would guess that SDSU (fans included) would rather be sent to Maine or Cal Poly and have a few dozen fans attend than be sent to Fargo again for a second round matchup and actually be within driving distance to attend.

Cal Poly, maybe. Maine in December, though? xlolx

[UNIFanSince1983]

Is it any less fair to have Duquesne be able to bus to a couple of games?

Based on STATS FCS Top 25 going into the playoffs, the way it broke for Duquesne, they played #13, and had they won they would have played #12. Both are games that are bus trips. For them you'd be replacing it with a thousand-mile flight to #18, and had they won they would have played #2, with it being very difficult for Duquesne fans to attend as well.

I'm not saying that Duquesne deserves an easy road to the championship. I am saying, what is wrong with having the option of sending them to William and Mary over being forced to ship them to The Citadel?

That is it. Give all the teams bus trips! If there are no teams left you can bus to, well your season is over.

[IBleedYellow]

That is it. Give all the teams bus trips! If there are no teams left you can bus to, well your season is over.

Well, that's one way to insure NDSU never wins a Title again. :(

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That is it. Give all the teams bus trips! If there are no teams left you can bus to, well your season is over.

Where did I say every game had to be a bus trip? It's a long way from "perhaps Duquesne could get a couple 1st/2nd round bus trips" to "bus or die". xlolx

[walliver]

My thought, in reality is this:

* Scrap expanded seeding
* Scrap strict regionalization

Give the committee the freedom to regoinalize where it makes sense (ex. Duquesne at William and Mary), and scrap it were it doesn't (year after year of potential NDSU/SDSU matchups). Attempt to avoid conference matchups until the semis at best or quarters at worst.

I see expansion of seeding as propagating the real problem, which is tying the hands of human beings by strict adherance to dogma.

I agree.

The committee overdid the regionalization thing this year. Cross country matchups in early rounds are exciting to outside observers and home team fans, but make it very difficult for visiting team fans to attend games. These games also greatly increase costs. Playoff attendance is generally low, to some extent because students don't get free tickets (although the schools can purchase tickets for them if they choose). A $30K to $40K host guarantee is not going to cover cross-country travel. Raising minimums to $100K might price deserving teams out of hosting games. On the other hand, putting CCS, CSU and the Citadel in a 843 area code bracket takes away a lot of the fun of the playoffs.

I personally prefer a 20 team field with 4 seeds; possibly with some type of priority bidding for teams 5-8, although I haven't figured out how to make that work. The first round should still be Thanksgiving weekend.

[REALBird]

Last year Illinois State went

Normal, IL
Cheney, WA
Durham, NH
Frisco Texas

Keep in mind that a red hot UNI team lost that game in Normal. Had they won the road may have been Cedar Falls, IA, Normal, IL, Cheney, WA, Durham, NH

Towson went Towso, EIU, EWU, Frisco in 2013
SHSU went SHSU, Montana State, EWU, Frisco in 2012
Richmond went Richmond, App State, UNI, Title in 08
UD went Delaware, Cedar Falls, Soutern Illinois, title game in 07..and between UNI and SIU there was a massive snow/ice storm that didn't let UD out of CF until Mon AM
UNI went UNI, UNH, Texas State, title game in 05



That's not uncommon. That's the screwed up part of regionalisation. It either punishes teams for being close to other good teams while rewarding those bunched together that aren't as strong OR ends up sending teams across the country back and every week anyway.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^

2012 Illinois State played at Boone, NC vs. Appy State. Next week on the road to Cheney, WA vs. EWU. Don't think our kids were too bummed that they got to see two different parts of the country. But we were also one of the last teams in, so it was what it was.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Where did I say every game had to be a bus trip? It's a long way from "perhaps Duquesne could get a couple 1st/2nd round bus trips" to "bus or die". xlolx

Why should Duquense get priority bus trips over other teams especially when they are one of the last teams in?

I really don't think bus trips should matter at all. The point of the playoffs is to determine who the best team is in the end. It shouldn't matter who has to travel where. The committee should do their best to set up an even bracket. The only way to truly do this is to seed all of the teams. In the end if you are seeded low your run should be difficult and it shouldn't matter if the majority of your fans can't travel. I want a fair set up. If we are seeded low and have to go to Montana or to Jacksonville State so be it. I understand that it is what the playoffs should be about. What other tournaments out there do they not seed every team? It is asinine.

In the end I realize money is the major factor here. I know it isn't fully realistic to do that, but that is the best way to try and ensure you have the 2 best teams in the championship game.

[clenz]

Why should Duquense get priority bus trips over other teams especially when they are one of the last teams in?

I really don't think bus trips should matter at all. The point of the playoffs is to determine who the best team is in the end. It shouldn't matter who has to travel where. The committee should do their best to set up an even bracket. The only way to truly do this is to seed all of the teams. In the end if you are seeded low your run should be difficult and it shouldn't matter if the majority of your fans can't travel. I want a fair set up. If we are seeded low and have to go to Montana or to Jacksonville State so be it. I understand that it is what the playoffs should be about. What other tournaments out there do they not seed every team? It is asinine.

In the end I realize money is the major factor here. I know it isn't fully realistic to do that, but that is the best way to try and ensure you have the 2 best teams in the championship game.
It's why I don't believe the FCS playoffs always determine the best two teams. NDSU has clearly been the best team recently, but the two best teams rarely are the teams playing in the title game.

[Thumper 76]

Cal Poly, maybe. Maine in December, though? xlolx

Ever been to Brookings in December? xlolx Maine wouldn't be much worse. Less windy I would suppose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thumper 76]

Where did I say every game had to be a bus trip? It's a long way from "perhaps Duquesne could get a couple 1st/2nd round bus trips" to "bus or die". xlolx

No. Too bad if you get sent somewhere a ways away. It's not the participation tournament. It's to see who the national champs are. If you try to schedule it so a slack team can have a couple fans show up to the away game at the detriment of another teams chances that's against the spirit of the tournament. I know I know you can say it shouldn't matter if it's to decide the best team where they go if they're championship material they will still win, but if you look at the fight that SDSU gave the bison the year before this one, I think there is a legit argument to be made that had they not been fed to Fargo right away they would have had a legit shot. It's not right to set up teams to have to play the top seed right away if they are better than half the bracket. Especially if you consider how it can help in recruiting to say we made it to the quarterfinals last year compared to we lost in the second round.


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[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Another negative of later games that no one has mentioned, the weather. The later in the year, the worse the weather tends to be as we enter winter. Fairweather fans are less likely to attend when it's cold, raining or snowing. Less daylight each day, etc.

The weather in late November through mid December for MOST of the country is still in a bit of transition. The odds are better for a 35-45 degree sunny day in the Northeast (even NH/Maine) and Midwest than a blizzard that time of yer. The Northern Plains, Rockies and lake affect regions are the main concern that time of year imo.

The Pennsylvania State Title games have historically been played the weekend before Christmas. The weather is traditionally "fine" with the very occasional snowfall.

How many schools still don't have lights? Lehigh doesn't which could be a problem should they host a semifinal when sunset is about 4:30.

[GannonFan]

I don't see the seeding of teams as being any kind of panacea - they used to seed all 16 teams back in the day and the shenanigans played with the seedings was always a talking point every year. Sure, it helps a little, but there'll be tweaks between the rankings and the finals seedings to still make certain things happen.

[nodak651]

I don't see the seeding of teams as being any kind of panacea - they used to seed all 16 teams back in the day and the shenanigans played with the seedings was always a talking point every year. Sure, it helps a little, but there'll be tweaks between the rankings and the finals seedings to still make certain things happen.

So.... if it helps a little they should do it.

[SUUTbird]

I think all Teams from one Conference should be put on one side of the beacket, no one wants to watch another conference game for the national championship. Also whoever wins their Conference Championship should automatically be home for the 1st round of the playoffs and the rest based on seeding, I'don't be down with the 24 team format to.

[clenz]

I think all Teams from one Conference should be put on one side of the beacket, no one wants to watch another conference game for the national championship. Also whoever wins their Conference Championship should automatically be home for the 1st round of the playoffs and the rest based on seeding, I'don't be down with the 24 team format to.
Bull**** a billion times over, then multiply that by eleventybillion.

You don't want to see 1 conference have both teams in the title game? Get ****ing better.

The playoffs aren't a charity event where "everyone gets a ribbon". It's, supposed, to determine the best teams.

Don't like that 2 or 3 teams from the MVFC would have ripped through the other side of the bracket this year? Don't like that 2 MVFC teams played for the title in 2014/15? Don't like that a few years ago there were some very close calls to the CAA having both title game spots? Get better.

Conference champ hosting? I could almost get down with it...if it wouldn't mean sending a top 5-10 ranked team from the MVFC, CAA, Big Sky, etc... that would draw 13K plus to that game to ****ing Robert Morris, St. Francis, or any other PFL/NEC program.

If you're going to seed a bracket and not use regionalisation you still need to safe guard money some how.

Sending UNI, Montana, South Dakota State (maybe someday NDSU again), JMU, SHSU, etc... across the country to play in front of 700 people at Dayton or St. Francis.

Playoffs can't get smaller than 20. All it takes is one of the conferences holding out to go "I want a bid" and we'd have to be right back at 24 and then a year later they go "We rethought it and no longer want it" and drop back to 20 after that? No.

[Bisonoline]

It's why I don't believe the FCS playoffs always determine the best two teams. NDSU has clearly been the best team recently, but the two best teams rarely are the teams playing in the title game.

Thats what happens with regionalization and other stupid rules. There was a time where two teams from the same conference werent allowed in the playoffs. Back in the D2 days.

[Bisonoline]

I think all Teams from one Conference should be put on one side of the beacket, no one wants to watch another conference game for the national championship. Also whoever wins their Conference Championship should automatically be home for the 1st round of the playoffs and the rest based on seeding, I'don't be down with the 24 team format to.

So you dont want a true playoff to determine the best team in the nation?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It's why I don't believe the FCS playoffs always determine the best two teams. NDSU has clearly been the best team recently, but the two best teams rarely are the teams playing in the title game.

It's always going to happen with a drawn out tournament. How many times is the Final 4 in college basketball the 4 best teams? Almost never by seed. Even the title game often features a "out of no where" team or teams. The 2014 final had a 7 and 8 seed.

Even with the expanded playoff I think the FCS results are a little more genuine. For whatever reason, the depth of elite teams in FCS only goes 3-5 teams most years. I think FBS is usually 2-4 teams deeper.

[Bisonator]

I think all Teams from one Conference should be put on one side of the beacket, no one wants to watch another conference game for the national championship. Also whoever wins their Conference Championship should automatically be home for the 1st round of the playoffs and the rest based on seeding, I'don't be down with the 24 team format to.

So you'd rather see a blowout instead of a game like the NDSU/ISUr game? Not me, I want the championship to be a showcase for FCS.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I think all Teams from one Conference should be put on one side of the beacket, no one wants to watch another conference game for the national championship. Also whoever wins their Conference Championship should automatically be home for the 1st round of the playoffs and the rest based on seeding, I'don't be down with the 24 team format to.


Big fail with this statement.

[UNHWildcat18]

So you'd rather see a blowout instead of a game like the NDSU/ISUr game? Not me, I want the championship to be a showcase for FCS.

There just isn't a way to predict how the playoffs will unfold until the games are played though. Look at ISUr this year. Finished high in the MVFC got a higher seed than Richmond but Richmond showed up to their place and punched them in the dick. Basically every NDSU fan is saying whoever finishes behind in them in the MVFC should be the two seed. Regardless of if a south land big sky or CAA team goes 12-1, 13-0 ect.. It's also pretty damn hard for a team to go into the Fargo dome for the first time and win. Compared to a team that plays them every year and in the dome every other.

[MR. CHICKEN]

There just isn't a way to predict how the playoffs will unfold until the games are played though. Look at ISUr this year. Finished high in the MVFC got a higher seed than Richmond but Richmond showed up to their place and punched them in the dick. Basically every NDSU fan is saying whoever finishes behind in them in the MVFC should be the two seed. Regardless of if a south land big sky or CAA team goes 12-1, 13-0 ect.. It's also pretty damn hard for a team to go into the Fargo dome for the first time and win. Compared to a team that plays them every year and in the dome every other.

.......POST UH REASON!......xthumbsupx......BROCK!


....RICHMOND....LOOKED LIKE UH DEER IN HEADLIGHTS.......IN DAT DOME.........INTRODUCTORY THIN'...WHEN DUH LIGHTS GO OUT.........EVERAH ARACHNID....GOT SOILED SHORTS....xeekx....AWK!

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I don't see the seeding of teams as being any kind of panacea - they used to seed all 16 teams back in the day and the shenanigans played with the seedings was always a talking point every year. Sure, it helps a little, but there'll be tweaks between the rankings and the finals seedings to still make certain things happen.

Beat me to it, that's my memory too! It will be very easy to seed teams 14 and 19 to have a bus game that sets up another bus game with the 3rd seed. Even with the different polls and rankings there is no absolute verification for the seeds assigned. There are enough arguments over who is seeded 2,3 and 4 so it would be very easy to set the bottom twelve seeds for favorable scheduling.

Another example of NCAA manipulation of seeds/pairings is when there was an ESPN game on Thanksgiving weekend. In 2004 Georgia Southern the #4 seed hosted what was viewed as the #5 team (UNH) in the first round for the TV game. And IIRC the following year they did something similar by sending JMU to YSU for a made for TV game. It wasn't fair, but FCS got some good exposure on national TV.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Chaves suggested expanding the seeds from eight to 16. Under the current selection format, a team that is ninth-strongest in the field is treated the same as the 24th team. Chaves cited Southern Utah and South Dakota State from the Missouri Valley as teams that had excellent regular seasons and were deserving of a home game in the first round. Both lost on the road in the first round.

Doubling the number of seeds would likely decrease how the playoff field has become increasingly regionalized in its matchups. Six of the eight second-round games this season had been played in the regular season, including three that matched teams from the same conferences.


To counter the potentially higher travel costs, Chaves suggested a slight raise in the minimum bid to host a playoff game.

Looking at this again, I see these two things as inextricably linked. With more seeds in the earlier rounds you would remove the financial incentive to mutually bid on games. As a result, you would see more teams getting games with minimum bids. You would need to raise the minimum bid level simply to keep the same amount of revenue coming in, IMO.

In other words, the cost of expanding the seeds is increasing the amount of money schools with home games would bid on them. Is this a cost that NDSU, Illinois State, Jacksonville State, Montana is willing to pay?

[JayJ79]

In other words, the cost of expanding the seeds is increasing the amount of money schools with home games would bid on them. Is this a cost that NDSU, Illinois State, Jacksonville State, Montana is willing to pay?

While I don't know the exact numbers, I do know that the bid amount is the MINIMUM that the host school has to pay. Otherwise, the NCAA takes a large percentage of the gate receipt. So NDSU, Montana, and other programs with high attendance are probably already paying this increased amount (even if they only bid the minimum for each round). In other words, the proposed increase doesn't affect them at all.

It would affect programs that struggle with playoff attendance, since they are required to pay the full bid amount even if the gate receipt percentages don't cover the bid amount.

[clenz]

There just isn't a way to predict how the playoffs will unfold until the games are played though. Look at ISUr this year. Finished high in the MVFC got a higher seed than Richmond but Richmond showed up to their place and punched them in the dick. Basically every NDSU fan is saying whoever finishes behind in them in the MVFC should be the two seed. Regardless of if a south land big sky or CAA team goes 12-1, 13-0 ect.. It's also pretty damn hard for a team to go into the Fargo dome for the first time and win. Compared to a team that plays them every year and in the dome every other.
1. You're right. We can't predict the playoffs.
2. ISUr finished the year with 2 losses - Big 10 East and top 10 FBS Iowa and a top 10-15 rated SDSU team. They finished tied for first in the MVFC
3. Literally no one from any fan base has said what you are claiming "every NDSU fan is saying"
4. It's pretty damn hard to beat NDSU anywhere. Check the road/neutral site record for them.
5. Why should Illinois State be punished and replaced by a team on a seed line by a team that had lost 2 of 3 to close the regular season...to teams that didn't make the playoffs?
6. Get better and prepare for the dome better.
7. USD played in the dome every other year, but has half the talent of Richmond. Who should struggle less in Fargo?
8. Is it really any easier to go to Montana for the first time? EWU and that turf? UNIDome is also quite loud? Should we get rid of home field all together. The teams play half way at a high school so there is no crowd noise to distract the players


BFD

[mvemjsunpx]

While I don't know the exact numbers, I do know that the bid amount is the MINIMUM that the host school has to pay. Otherwise, the NCAA takes a large percentage of the gate receipt. So NDSU, Montana, and other programs with high attendance are probably already paying this increased amount (even if they only bid the minimum for each round). In other words, the proposed increase doesn't affect them at all.

It would affect programs that struggle with playoff attendance, since they are required to pay the full bid amount even if the gate receipt percentages don't cover the bid amount.

Right. NDSU, JSU, & Montana ain't bidding anywhere near the minimum.

[UNHWildcat18]

1. You're right. We can't predict the playoffs.
2. ISUr finished the year with 2 losses - Big 10 East and top 10 FBS Iowa and a top 10-15 rated SDSU team. They finished tied for first in the MVFC
3. Literally no one from any fan base has said what you are claiming "every NDSU fan is saying"
4. It's pretty damn hard to beat NDSU anywhere. Check the road/neutral site record for them.
5. Why should Illinois State be punished and replaced by a team on a seed line by a team that had lost 2 of 3 to close the regular season...to teams that didn't make the playoffs?
6. Get better and prepare for the dome better.
7. USD played in the dome every other year, but has half the talent of Richmond. Who should struggle less in Fargo?
8. Is it really any easier to go to Montana for the first time? EWU and that turf? UNIDome is also quite loud? Should we get rid of home field all together. The teams play half way at a high school so there is no crowd noise to distract the players


BFD

1. Yes I am thank you.
2. Yes they did obviously deserving of a 1-4 seed.
3. Half of their discussion is we didn't play the 2nd best team in the championship, because they played UNI in the quarters. Not that anyone can predict how to split the teams perfectly to get the true 1-2 on opposites sides.
4. Ummmmm duh....
5. That's not the point I was trying to make. Of course they deservingly based on record deserved to be ahead of Richmond in seeding. Didn't stop Richmond from punching them in the dick at home which people didn't see happening. Another point of just have to see how they play out.
6. Yeah pretty sure that's the main goal of every team every year is to get better.......
7. It's called any given Saturday for a reason. Also these are nervous anxious 18-22 year old KIDS we are talking about not machines. I'm sure if you went from an outside venue to not being able to hear yourself think with 120 decibels pounding your thoughts for the first time I'm sure you would probably have a tough time adjusting the first time there.
8. I in no way stated that it's cheap or illegal or stupid that teams have home field advantage....you play in whatever conditions you are put in and you find a way to win. Or you lose

[clenz]

1. Yes I am thank you.
2. Yes they did obviously deserving of a 1-4 seed.
3. Half of their discussion is we didn't play the 2nd best team in the championship, because they played UNI in the quarters. Not that anyone can predict how to split the teams perfectly to get the true 1-2 on opposites sides.
4. Ummmmm duh....
5. That's not the point I was trying to make. Of course they deservingly based on record deserved to be ahead of Richmond in seeding. Didn't stop Richmond from punching them in the dick at home which people didn't see happening. Another point of just have to see how they play out.
6. Yeah pretty sure that's the main goal of every team every year is to get better.......
7. It's called any given Saturday for a reason. Also these are nervous anxious 18-22 year old KIDS we are talking about not machines. I'm sure if you went from an outside venue to not being able to hear yourself think with 120 decibels pounding your thoughts for the first time I'm sure you would probably have a tough time adjusting the first time there.
8. I in no way stated that it's cheap or illegal or stupid that teams have home field advantage....you play in whatever conditions you are put in and you find a way to win. Or you lose
Then why did you spend an entire post crying about how unfair it was for teams having to go into the FargoDome? If you can go into Normal and "punch Illinois State in the dick" but can't, a week later, walk into a semifinal game and be so unprepared, scared, nervous, however you want to describe it that you get punched in the dick you were greatly under prepared.

At this point there is no excuse to not be prepared for that noise. It's not a secret. Maybe a series or two I get. Then settle in.

NDSU is going to punch you in your dick no matter where you play. Doesn't matter if you've played there before or not.

To continue point #3:
There are usually 2 or 3 teams that are fighting for the 2nd best team. To 2 of the 3 in that discussion on the same side of the bracket as the clear number 1...and both of them from the same conference...you better expect to see push back on that. It looks pretty damn fishy when you see 5 teams from the same conference on the same side of the bracket and 4 of those 5 were all ranked in the top 10 most of the season, yet the other side of the bracket is like most pillows. It looks ESPECIALLY fishy when you do that to the conference that had 2 teams in the title game the year before and pissed people off because there wasn't enough "chance" for other teams to get into the title game.

[UNHWildcat18]

Then why did you spend an entire post crying about how unfair it was for teams having to go into the FargoDome? If you can go into Normal and "punch Illinois State in the dick" but can't, a week later, walk into a semifinal game and be so unprepared, scared, nervous, however you want to describe it that you get punched in the dick you were greatly under prepared.

At this point there is no excuse to not be prepared for that noise. It's not a secret. Maybe a series or two I get. Then settle in.

NDSU is going to punch you in your dick no matter where you play. Doesn't matter if you've played there before or not.

To continue point #3:
There are usually 2 or 3 teams that are fighting for the 2nd best team. To 2 of the 3 in that discussion on the same side of the bracket as the clear number 1...and both of them from the same conference...you better expect to see push back on that. It looks pretty damn fishy when you see 5 teams from the same conference on the same side of the bracket and 4 of those 5 were all ranked in the top 10 most of the season, yet the other side of the bracket is like most pillows. It looks ESPECIALLY fishy when you do that to the conference that had 2 teams in the title game the year before and pissed people off because there wasn't enough "chance" for other teams to get into the title game.

I didn't say it was unfair. I said its just pretty damn hard, which it is, seeing as they have 3 losses at home from 2011-2015 (all MVFC opponents). You are right though, teams should be more prepared. You are also right that the bracket due to regionalization really did skew the brackets more this year than in previous years. While I personally don't want to see first place MVFC vs second place MVFC team in the championship (boring as **** for me personally), if those two teams win out their side of the bracket I have no problems with it whatsoever. It's the other 22 teams for not beating them. The bracket last year was awful and I hope next years is better.

[Professor Chaos]

Craig Haley posted an updated story with some talking points from the winter meetings that happened last month: http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20160217140813664107004

Essentially it sounds like the change I think most of us would love to see of seeding more teams will not happen, at least not this year. However, it's promising that Haley said the following points "likely have momentum":


- That the selection committee try to avoid repeated matchups in the early rounds. It all depends on how results play out, but six of the eight second-round games in December had been played during the regular season.

- Splitting up qualifiers from the same conferences. If there are two seeded teams from one conference, they would be placed on opposite sides of the bracket, even if the seeding of teams has to be adjusted.

[BisonBacker]

1. Yes I am thank you.
2. Yes they did obviously deserving of a 1-4 seed.
3. Half of their discussion is we didn't play the 2nd best team in the championship, because they played UNI in the quarters. Not that anyone can predict how to split the teams perfectly to get the true 1-2 on opposites sides.
4. Ummmmm duh....
5. That's not the point I was trying to make. Of course they deservingly based on record deserved to be ahead of Richmond in seeding. Didn't stop Richmond from punching them in the dick at home which people didn't see happening. Another point of just have to see how they play out.
6. Yeah pretty sure that's the main goal of every team every year is to get better.......
7. It's called any given Saturday for a reason. Also these are nervous anxious 18-22 year old KIDS we are talking about not machines. I'm sure if you went from an outside venue to not being able to hear yourself think with 120 decibels pounding your thoughts for the first time I'm sure you would probably have a tough time adjusting the first time there.
8. I in no way stated that it's cheap or illegal or stupid that teams have home field advantage....you play in whatever conditions you are put in and you find a way to win. Or you lose


Too bad if you don't like to hear the truth but that was the truth.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

- That the selection committee try to avoid repeated matchups in the early rounds. It all depends on how results play out, but six of the eight second-round games in December had been played during the regular season.

- Splitting up qualifiers from the same conferences. If there are two seeded teams from one conference, they would be placed on opposite sides of the bracket, even if the seeding of teams has to be adjusted.

Didn't I basically say this the moment the bracket came out?

[UNHWildcat18]

Too bad if you don't like to hear the truth but that was the truth.

.... yeah I agree UNI was the 2nd best team this year in the tournament.

[tribefan40]

Don't like that 2 or 3 teams from the MVFC would have ripped through the other side of the bracket this year? Don't like that 2 MVFC teams played for the title in 2014/15? Don't like that a few years ago there were some very close calls to the CAA having both title game spots? Get better.

This. This is nothing new, and not an MVFC or NDSU specific issue. While I do agree with the get better sentiment re: complaining about the current trends, the balance will eventually shift back to other conferences/teams, and NDSU will lose a playoff game. Maybe.

[grizband]

Regionalization impacts Western teams more, because of the distance between schools. While I don't believe they would have won the title, Montana may have advanced further if NDSU wasn't theirsecond round opponent.

I would prefer more seeding, up to 16 teams as suggested, giving the top teams more chances at home field advantage.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[JayJ79]

because Montana so rarely gets home playoff games as it is.... xcoolx

[grizband]

because Montana so rarely gets home playoff games as it is.... xcoolx
The point I tried to make was without regionalization, Montana would have been sent somewhere else, and a lower ranked team would have faced NDSU earlier.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[RootinFerDukes]

I'm in favor of seeding as much of the field as possible for the same reason. The stronger teams should be getting deeper into the playoffs more often than not. The current regionalization is not allowing that to happen because strong teams are facing each other in the first and second round.
This is why we have semi final games that are blowouts.

[Professor Chaos]

More steam behind playoff reform: http://www.inforum.com/sports/4016068-missouri-valley-commissioner-says-regionalization-fcs-playoffs-will-be-avoided-if

No concrete changes specified but it looks like there's support to avoid regular season rematches until later than the round of 16 and to avoid loading up one side of the bracket with all the teams from a particular conference.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I'm in favor of seeding as much of the field as possible for the same reason. The stronger teams should be getting deeper into the playoffs more often than not. The current regionalization is not allowing that to happen because strong teams are facing each other in the first and second round.
This is why we have semi final games that are blowouts.

......SAM HOUSTON PEAKED....AGIN' MCNEESE STATE..........NEXT WEEK.........SLEPT....THRU DUH JAX STATE DEBACLE.........BLOW-OUTS HAPPEN AS TEAMS....ARE GENERALLAH PLAYIN' VERAH STRONG TEAMS...BACK TA BACK TA BACK........EXPEND HUGE AMOUNTS UH EMOTION.....NUFFIN' LEFT IN TANK......IT'S WHAA COVERED WAGON....FULL UH CREDIT......GOES TA BIZONSSSS......WHOM HANDLE EVERAH ONES BEST [email protected] DANCE.....FO' FIVE YEARS NOW..........AWK!

[SUUTbird]

Seeding is a good idea however I do feel that regionalization is somewhat necessary for FCS playoffs. Even an FBS bowl games teams that have to travel very far a lot of the time especially from smaller schools in the MAC for example almost have no one show up for their games, example the last few Idaho Potato bowls. Regionalization is somewhat important so at least there's a better chance that fans will actually show up to games.

When it comes to home games however that definitely needs to be text, SUU got screwed last year being the Big Sky Champions and having to go play at SHSU should have been the other way around, Conference champions and higher seeded teams should be home. Also unlike a lot of people I actually liked that teams from the same conferences were on the same side of the bracket, a national championship with two teams from the same conference is boring and hope they actually continue that in the future.

[clenz]

Comparing lack of travel of a Mac school to a bowl game and the visiting team in a playoff game is not a real good route.


Yep. Just because a conference may or may not have the two best teams means **** em. The Big Sky get 6 teams in and have the three best teams in the country? **** you. Someone else should get a participation award in spite of actual talent.

If you thought the NDSU ISUr title game was boring I'm going to just tell you that you don't understand football

That was the best title game in years. Not lie the SLC, OVC or CAA has actually challenged NDSU. Talk about boring as **** games to watch.

Also NDSU and ISU didn't play that year so it wasn't even a damn rematch.

[POD Knows]

The top 2 MVFC teams should get byes until the semi's. I don't care what happens prior to that. Just kidding, sort of.

[MR. CHICKEN]

...YER UH ONE TEAM PONY.....AS PROVEN...BAH RICHMOND'S.....UP-ENDIN' UH ILL STATE.....IN LAST FIVE YEARS....ILLINOIS STATE..... WOODAH WON DUH BLING COUPLE YEARS AGO....BUT DERE'D BE SEVERAL OTHERAH CONFERENCES......WHO'D COME AWAY WHIFF DUH PRIZE...IN DAT TIME FRAME....IFIN' BIZONSSSSS.....WERE'NT PARTICIPATIN'............BRAWK!

[BisonFan02]

Last year's championship was UNI @ NDSU in Fargo...especially after ISUr **** the bed. Its obviously something that ebbs/flows when conferences are up and down, but that is the world we live in right now with the MVFC.

[KPSUL]

I don't see the point in having 20 rather than 24 teams in the field. The way they worked the tournament the several years they had a 20 game field, there were the same numbers of rounds with 20 teams, but instead of 8 games week one there were only four.

[clenz]

I don't see the point in having 20 rather than 24 teams in the field. The way they worked the tournament the several years they had a 20 game field, there were the same numbers of rounds with 20 teams, but instead of 8 games week one there were only four.

Up until this past year there was no way to have 20

[KPSUL]

Up until this past year there was no way to have 20

Explain why this is so? For three years 2010-2012 there were 20 teams in the FCS playoffs. The MEAC and NEC had auto-bids; but the Pioneer did not. In 2013 it expanded to 24 teams, I'm thinking granting the Pioneer an auto-bid was a factor, as well as giving some additional teams a shot without extending the timeframe of the playoffs, but I'm not really sure about all the factors that led them to expand to 24.

[clenz]

PFL meant 11 autos. Had nothing to do with giving more teams a chance

[NY Crusader 2010]

PFL meant 11 autos. Had nothing to do with giving more teams a chance

Correct - with the MEAC forfeiting their auto for the Celebration Bowl last year, 2015 was the first time in several years that the playoff field could've been peeled back to 20. As of today, there are ten autos so the minimum amount of at-large bids mandated by NCAA rule would be ten. With 11 auto-bids, you need 11 at-large teams and so on and so forth.

[SUUTbird]

Yep. Just because a conference may or may not have the two best teams means **** em. The Big Sky get 6 teams in and have the three best teams in the country? **** you. Someone else should get a participation award in spite of actual talent.

If you thought the NDSU ISUr title game was boring I'm going to just tell you that you don't understand football

That was the best title game in years. Not lie the SLC, OVC or CAA has actually challenged NDSU. Talk about boring as **** games to watch.

Also NDSU and ISU didn't play that year so it wasn't even a damn rematch.

Wow talk about throwing a temper tantrum no need to get your panties in a bunch you whiny ****. I would rather just see a championship game involving two teams from different conferences rather than another potential regular-season rematch. And no **** no one has challenged NDSU, it helps that they always qualify for home field advantage thanks to the bidding shenanigans and routinely winning their conference.

[MR. CHICKEN]

xpopcornx

[clenz]

Wow talk about throwing a temper tantrum no need to get your panties in a bunch you whiny ****. I would rather just see a championship game involving two teams from different conferences rather than another potential regular-season rematch. And no **** no one has challenged NDSU, it helps that they always qualify for home field advantage thanks to the bidding shenanigans and routinely winning their conference.

Translation:

We can't compete with the best so we need to make sure that as many of the top teams knock each other out so we can get as many people participation tiptoes.

Their bidding shenanigans? Um, they've been a seed and haven't needed to worry about bidding shenanigans. That's a bull**** excuse for ****ing whiners.

I guess you could not be ****ing cheap and actually bid to host so you don't get sent on the road as a conference champion. Oh, SHSU beats you in Utah too.

Illinois State has as many conference titles as NDSU the last two years.

[Catsfan90]

Translation:

We can't compete with the best so we need to make sure that as many of the top teams knock each other out so we can get as many people participation tiptoes.

Their bidding shenanigans? Um, they've been a seed and haven't needed to worry about bidding shenanigans. That's a bull**** excuse for ****ing whiners.

I guess you could not be ****ing cheap and actually bid to host so you don't get sent on the road as a conference champion. Oh, SHSU beats you in Utah too.

Illinois State has as many conference titles as NDSU the last two years.
I like the last line "routinely winning their conference." There's the key to success right there, win.

They aren't being given some huge advantage over other teams, they are earning it. If the other teams don't like it get better and win. This whole idea of wining because its unfair that other teams get this and that and yaddy yadda is bull****.

It's simple. Get better and win! You to can have those advantages.

[Thumper 76]

Wow talk about throwing a temper tantrum no need to get your panties in a bunch you whiny ****. I would rather just see a championship game involving two teams from different conferences rather than another potential regular-season rematch. And no **** no one has challenged NDSU, it helps that they always qualify for home field advantage thanks to the bidding shenanigans and routinely winning their conference.

This isn't the BCS where the game was decided on who was on top of the polls. The rematch happened because nobody on the other side of the bracket beat the Redbirds and vice versa. And other teams have challenged NDSU, they just couldn't finish. UNI, SDSU, Georgia Southern, and others had some damn close games with them in the playoffs. That's what has made their run so impressive, they always find a way to pull off the win. They haven't won every game 42-7 for the last five years. Just because you would rather see two teams from a different conference doesn't mean you should make it impossible to happen. The idea of the playoffs is to end up with the two best teams in the tournament, to to artificially prop up another conference by rigging the bracket.

And Catsfan is right. Win your games and get a seed so you earn the home field advantage. A conference champion who is 6-5 shouldn't automatically get home field over a team that lost the tiebreaker for their conference championship or was one game back and ended up at 9-2 or 8-3. The reality of the situation for SDSU is that if they don't get a seed they will be heading to the Fargodome in the second round, almost every time. If not there then they will be going to Montana, and some years both. How can they fix it? Win your games and get a seed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Solution: somewhat regionalize through quarterfinals, neutral-site centralish locations for semifinals and finals. Chatty hosts one semi, say UNI hosts the other, finals in Frisco.

That would mitigate home-field advantage for most of the teams when you get to the brink to the championship.

[JayJ79]

Solution: somewhat regionalize through quarterfinals, neutral-site centralish locations for semifinals and finals. Chatty hosts one semi, say UNI hosts the other, finals in Frisco.

That would mitigate home-field advantage for most of the teams when you get to the brink to the championship.

Would also decrease attendance in the semifinal games. People may travel to a neutral site for the championship game, but not so many would travel for a semifinal game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Would also decrease attendance in the semifinal games. People may travel to a neutral site for the championship game, but not so many would travel for a semifinal game.

I'd like to test that theory for some schools like NDSU and Montana. Furthermore, Chatty was a pretty reasonable destination for CAA, Big South, SoCon teams that happened to make it.

[IBleedYellow]

Wait, so now we're annoyed that the same team has EARNED the past five National Titles and so we're coming up with excuses to stop teams having home field advantage? xlolx

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[SUUTbird]

The only whining here being done is by you Clenz, more power to you if you want a glorfied regular-season game for the championship, defintley doesn't help the overall state of FCS football. And doubtful, we beat SHSU on the road if not for a horrible no call pass interference and we always play better at home but think what you want.

The issue with neutral-site semifinal games has already been mentioned, not every team travels like Montana or NDSU chances are they would be even less attended then they are now. And I disagree if you win your conference should be able to at least host a first-round home game at the minimum.

[clenz]

The only whining here being done is by you Clenz, more power to you if you want a glorfied regular-season game for the championship, defintley doesn't help the overall state of FCS football. And doubtful, we beat SHSU on the road if not for a horrible no call pass interference and we always play better at home but think what you want.

I'd argue that outside of the second quarter SHSU pretty much manhandled SUU for the other three quarters. SUU litterally gained half of their total yards for the entire game in that one quarter. Other than that one quarter here are the drives for the rest of the game

plays - yards - result
3-4-punt
2-75-TD
3-5-punt
4-14-punt
3-1-punt
5-26-TD
4-23-INT
9-44-TURNOVER ON DOWNS
5-12-punt
3-5-punt
2--6-SAFETY
3--2-punt
10-30-TURNOVER ON DOWNS
2-30-FUMBLE

As for the having to go on the road - maybe bid something? Also, play better in the OOC (and quit playing D2s). Your OOC was an FBS loss, blown the **** out by South Dakota State (SDSU had enough points to not score the rest of the game and still force OT on their first possession of the 2nd quarter) and a D2 that was 0-11, was shut out 3 times, and scored only 1 TD 4 other times, so in 7 of their 11 games they scored 7 points or less....

The selection committee looked at your schedule and went "Yeah, "champions" but they played 2 playoff teams during the regular season (SDSU and Portland State) and lost both. After that the best teams they played were (in order):
5th place in the Big Sky
7th place in the Big Sky
9th place in the Big Sky
10th place in the Big Sky
11th place in the Big Sky
13th place in the Big Sky (dead last)


You know what doesn't help the FCS?
The participation trophy attitude that "we should spread things around and not let one conference be too good". Well, get ****ing better and knock that conference off. You know what doesn't help the FCS?

You know what doesn't help the FCS?
When non-MVFC teams can't stay within 30 of NDSU and the playoff games that involve MVFC teams, or the title game that did involve an MVFC team, are one score games late into the 4th and actually have NDSU losing with a minute remaining.

You know what you don't hear from MVFC teams?
NDSU is too good, this isn't fair.

You know what you are hearing?
I'm sick of their ****, lets get better and ****ing do something about it.

You know what I'm not hearing from 99% of the FCS?
I'm sick of their ****, lets get better and ****ing do something about it.

[clenz]

Again, who gives a **** what conference the teams in title game are from. If they are the two best teams than so ****ing be it.

Hell, lets limit it to one team per conference. Petitions the NCAA to change the at-large rule.

10 team playoff. **** anyone else.


If you want your conference champion to get there tell them to be better than the 2nd-4th place team of another conference

[Bisonator]

Again, who gives a **** what conference the teams in title game are from. If they are the two best teams than so ****ing be it.

This. So much this. That 2015 title game was one of the all time greats.

[MR. CHICKEN]

This. So much this. That 2015 title game was one of the all time greats.

.... DIS CRYIN' TOWEL THREAD...HAS BEEN HIJACKED TA....DUH BEST TEAMS...ARE FROM DUH SAME CONFERENCE.....&...WE HAVE TA PLAY 'EM....THUS ELIMINATIN' OURAH OWN.....WELL IT'S NUFFIN' NEW VALLEY LADS...CAA WENT THRU IT....WHEN WE WAS KING......NOT I-AA'S FAULT......DERE'S NUFFIN' BUT TUMBLE WEED....'TWEEN.....MILES UH CORN/ROCKS/SAND........OUT-DERE....NOW WHEN IT COMES TA FACIN' CONFERENCE MATES IN SEMI'S & BEYOND......FAMILIARARITY LADS....PLUS DUH COMMON HATE UH NORFF IOWA/DAKOTA STATE........YOUSE PLAY IN DOMES....AN' R USED...TA BEIN' INSIDE.....WHERE SOUND CAIN'T BE ABSORBED....BAH...DUH SURROUNDIN'S......SCORES DON'T MATTER......GETTIN' BEAT BAH 30....OR 3......YA STILL GET DUH L.......IFIN' IT WUDDIN'...FO' DUH 5-PEAT......PRETTY EASY TA SURMISE.....OTHERAH CONFERENCES COODAH WON DUH BLING........LEAVE DUH DANCE ALONE...NO CHANGES NECESSARY......FO' ME.........DOODLE-DOO!

[clenz]

.... DIS CRYIN' TOWEL THREAD...HAS BEEN HIJACKED TA....DUH BEST TEAMS...ARE FROM DUH SAME CONFERENCE.....&...WE HAVE TA PLAY 'EM....THUS ELIMINATIN' OURAH OWN.....WELL IT'S NUFFIN' NEW VALLEY LADS...CAA WENT THRU IT....WHEN WE WAS KING......NOT I-AA'S FAULT......DERE'S NUFFIN' BUT TUMBLE WEED....'TWEEN.....MILES UH CORN/ROCKS/SAND........OUT-DERE....NOW WHEN IT COMES TA FACIN' CONFERENCE MATES IN SEMI'S & BEYOND......FAMILIARARITY LADS....PLUS DUH COMMON HATE UH NORFF IOWA/DAKOTA STATE........YOUSE PLAY IN DOMES....AN' R USED...TA BEIN' INSIDE.....WHERE SOUND CAIN'T BE ABSORBED....BAH...DUH SURROUNDIN'S......SCORES DON'T MATTER......GETTIN' BEAT BAH 30....OR 3......YA STILL GET DUH L.......IFIN' IT WUDDIN'...FO' DUH 5-PEAT......PRETTY EASY TA SURMISE.....OTHERAH CONFERENCES COODAH WON DUH BLING........LEAVE DUH DANCE ALONE...NO CHANGES NECESSARY......FO' ME.........DOODLE-DOO!
Difference being when the CAA got 5 in a 16 team field you weren't put in the same side of the bracket.

You were still split 3/2

2014 is a prime example of how it works when split, though still resulted in instant rematches.

Indiana State, UNI and Illinois State on one side and SDSU/NDSU on the other side.

UNI fed directly into ISUR and SDSU directly into NDSU for round 2.

Ditching regionalization makes that real easy to split without changing the brackets.

Montana/San Diego fed into EWU. Swap the UNI/SFA game with Montana/San Diego (RE UNI/SFA fed to the 4 instead of the 5 and Mon/San Diego to the 5 instead of the 4) doesn't change who is seeded where, who is matched with who in the first round, etc... but avoids 2 conference rematches (And remember how much people here hate the conference rematch) in the second round.

Same situation on the bottom could have happend. Swap the South Dakota State/Montana State feeding into the 2 seed (NDSU) game with SHSU/SLA feeding into the 3 seed (Jax St) and you avoid the change of a conference rematch there.

Or, we could avoid a conference match up in the first round simply by swapping SHSU and SDSU.

JMU could have fed into Nova, but that's a pretty easy fix, while keeping that side of the bracket with the same teams as well.


Putting all 5 on the same side is just idiocy.

[clenz]

Last year would have been an easy fix as well, and would have avoided SLC rematch as well.

Swap Montana/SDSU (NDSU feed) with SHSU/SUU (McNeese State) That puts an MVFC on the other side and avoids 2 potential rematches.

The other way would have easily been WIU/Dayton with Colgate/UNH (A potential CAA rematch with JMU).

See how easy that is when you don't try to force teams onto a ****ing bus?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I will say this in regards to spreading out teams in a playoff bracket. In the men's basketball tournament, Duke and UNC are always on opposite sides of the bracket. When one conference like the ACC is dominant, they generally have top seeds in each regional, like Duke, UNC, Virginia. You'd think they'd do the same thing for the FCS playoffs.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Last year would have been an easy fix as well, and would have avoided SLC rematch as well.

Swap Montana/SDSU (NDSU feed) with SHSU/SUU (McNeese State) That puts an MVFC on the other side and avoids 2 potential rematches.

The other way would have easily been WIU/Dayton with Colgate/UNH (A potential CAA rematch with JMU).

See how easy that is when you don't try to force teams onto a ****ing bus?

UNH and JMU didn't play last season so that wouldn't have been a rematch. How are you proposing covering the added expense of the charter plane that Colgate/WIU would have needed? That's the cold, hard reality of less regionalization. I've always viewed the FCS playoffs as a decent compromise compared to the total regionalization in the D-II and D-III Football Championships.

Not all years have been an equal split when 4-5 CAA teams made the playoff. In 2004 UNH was in one bracket and W&M, JMU and Delaware were on the other side. In 2006 three CAA teams, JMU on one side with UNH and UMass on the other side but they met in a rematch in the Quarterfinals. In 2009 there was a 3-1 split of CAA teams, Richmond on one side and UNH, W&M and Villanova on the other side. Again in 2010 there was a 3-1 split of CAA teams wit Villanova on one side and UNH, Delaware and W&M on the other side. In 2011 there was a 4-1 split of CAA teams with UNH, Towson, Maine and ODU on one side with JMU on the other side. In 2013 only three CAA teams in the field and a 2-1 split but UNH and Maine met in a second round game! In 2014 the CAA got four teams in and there was a 3-1 split, UNH on one side and Villanova, Richmond and JMU on the other side. In 2015 despite a 2-2 split for CAA teams, W&M and Richmond had a second round rematch. Sorry Clenz, this isn't a conspiracy against the MVFC. The CAA has been negatively impacted more times than not in recent history.

[clenz]

UNH and JMU didn't play last season so that wouldn't have been a rematch. How are you proposing covering the added expense of the charter plane that Colgate/WIU would have needed? That's the cold, hard reality of less regionalization. I've always viewed the FCS playoffs as a decent compromise compared to the total regionalization in the D-II and D-III Football Championships.

Not all years have been an equal split when 4-5 CAA teams made the playoff. In 2004 UNH was in one bracket and W&M, JMU and Delaware were on the other side. In 2006 three CAA teams, JMU on one side with UNH and UMass on the other side but they met in a rematch in the Quarterfinals. In 2009 there was a 3-1 split of CAA teams, Richmond on one side and UNH, W&M and Villanova on the other side. Again in 2010 there was a 3-1 split of CAA teams wit Villanova on one side and UNH, Delaware and W&M on the other side. In 2011 there was a 4-1 split of CAA teams with UNH, Towson, Maine and ODU on one side with JMU on the other side. In 2013 only three CAA teams in the field and a 2-1 split but UNH and Maine met in a second round game! In 2014 the CAA got four teams in and there was a 3-1 split, UNH on one side and Villanova, Richmond and JMU on the other side. In 2015 despite a 2-2 split for CAA teams, W&M and Richmond had a second round rematch. Sorry Clenz, this isn't a conspiracy against the MVFC. The CAA has been negatively impacted more times than not in recent history.


NDSU and ISUr didn't play in 2014

People are still butt hurt about that.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

NDSU and ISUr didn't play in 2014

People are still butt hurt about that.

So, is this an acknowledgement that the CAA has been impacted as significantly as the MVFC due to regionalization? And I notice you didn't respond to my question about how to fund the greater cost of more flights with less regionalization.

[MR. CHICKEN]

NDSU and ISUr didn't play in 2014

People are still butt hurt about that.


..................xconfusedxxconfusedx............ ...................xconfusedx.........BRAWK!

...OUTTAH YER 5 POWERHOUSES......OWN-LAH 2....CAN PLAY FO' BING....VALLEY LAD......3 WOOD CRASH...NO MATTERAH....WHERE YA'S TEED-UP!.....AWK!

[clenz]

So, is this an acknowledgement that the CAA has been impacted as significantly as the MVFC due to regionalization? And I notice you didn't respond to my question about how to fund the greater cost of more flights with less regionalization.
I think all conferences that get multiple teams, especially 3 or more, at negatively impacted. Especially conferences that have 2 or 3 of the top 10ish teams in the FCS that particular year and they are/would be all forced into each other by the quarters - regardless what conference it is.

How would they fund it? Well, they apparently have a plan because rationalization is going away from the sound of it.

[The Yo Show]

UNH and JMU didn't play last season so that wouldn't have been a rematch. How are you proposing covering the added expense of the charter plane that Colgate/WIU would have needed? That's the cold, hard reality of less regionalization. I've always viewed the FCS playoffs as a decent compromise compared to the total regionalization in the D-II and D-III Football Championships.

Not all years have been an equal split when 4-5 CAA teams made the playoff. In 2004 UNH was in one bracket and W&M, JMU and Delaware were on the other side. In 2006 three CAA teams, JMU on one side with UNH and UMass on the other side but they met in a rematch in the Quarterfinals. In 2009 there was a 3-1 split of CAA teams, Richmond on one side and UNH, W&M and Villanova on the other side. Again in 2010 there was a 3-1 split of CAA teams wit Villanova on one side and UNH, Delaware and W&M on the other side. In 2011 there was a 4-1 split of CAA teams with UNH, Towson, Maine and ODU on one side with JMU on the other side. In 2013 only three CAA teams in the field and a 2-1 split but UNH and Maine met in a second round game! In 2014 the CAA got four teams in and there was a 3-1 split, UNH on one side and Villanova, Richmond and JMU on the other side. In 2015 despite a 2-2 split for CAA teams, W&M and Richmond had a second round rematch. Sorry Clenz, this isn't a conspiracy against the MVFC. The CAA has been negatively impacted more times than not in recent history.



It impacts everybody. But somehow, you can't agree that having 5 MVFC teams on the same side of the bracket is not worse than anything anyone else can provide as evidence? Like I said, we can all agree it impacts everybody negatively, but really? 5-0 for once side of a bracket...

[clenz]

It impacts everybody. But somehow, you can't agree that having 5 MVFC teams on the same side of the bracket is not worse than anything anyone else can provide as evidence? Like I said, we can all agree it impacts everybody negatively, but really? 5-0 for once side of a bracket...
Agreed.

At some point it's impossible to avoid rematches when you have that many teams from one conference in. The issue is when you force all five into one side, and force them to all be eliminated by the quarters simply by funneling them to each other like that while hiding behind regionalization. We all know the reason it happened, especially with such easy "fixes" to avoid it( so easy that even I found them) is because of the out cry from the Illinois State/North Dakota State title game and this bull **** "everyone gets a trophy and we shouldn't let one team do that again" mentality.

Who knows if ISU, UNI, SDSU or WIU come out of that other side last year. I think UNI and ISUr had a damn good shot, but it's impossible to know. But to make sure that a conference doesn't have that chance and then hide it behind regionalization, when a year before it wasn't an issue is horse ****.

I would fight the same battle for the Big Sky, CAA, SLC, etc... No conference should have every team (when multiple bids are earn) forced into one side of the bracket. I could understand it with two, but when you get to three there is zero reason for it.

[344Johnson]

Again, who gives a **** what conference the teams in title game are from. If they are the two best teams than so ****ing be it.

Hell, lets limit it to one team per conference. Petitions the NCAA to change the at-large rule.

10 team playoff. **** anyone else.


If you want your conference champion to get there tell them to be better than the 2nd-4th place team of another conference

Actually this sounds pretty fun. Give the regular season some meaning! ;)

[IBleedYellow]

Agreed.

At some point it's impossible to avoid rematches when you have that many teams from one conference in. The issue is when you force all five into one side, and force them to all be eliminated by the quarters simply by funneling them to each other like that while hiding behind regionalization. We all know the reason it happened, especially with such easy "fixes" to avoid it( so easy that even I found them) is because of the out cry from the Illinois State/North Dakota State title game and this bull **** "everyone gets a trophy and we shouldn't let one team do that again" mentality.

Who knows if ISU, UNI, SDSU or WIU come out of that other side last year. I think UNI and ISUr had a damn good shot, but it's impossible to know. But to make sure that a conference doesn't have that chance and then hide it behind regionalization, when a year before it wasn't an issue is horse ****.

I would fight the same battle for the Big Sky, CAA, SLC, etc... No conference should have every team (when multiple bids are earn) forced into one side of the bracket. I could understand it with two, but when you get to three there is zero reason for it.

Agreed.

If you have two teams in, depending on seeding they might be the same bracket side - oh well. After that? It better be more than 1 on the opposite side of the others.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

It impacts everybody. But somehow, you can't agree that having 5 MVFC teams on the same side of the bracket is not worse than anything anyone else can provide as evidence? Like I said, we can all agree it impacts everybody negatively, but really? 5-0 for once side of a bracket...

Never was saying that five MVFC on one side was fair or good, was just providing facts that it wasn't just the MVFC that has been impacted over the years. Many posters were pontificating like it was a conspiracy against the MVFC, one stating it never happened to the CAA when they had multiple teams. Have to respond to inaccurate information.

[clenz]

Never was saying that five MVFC on one side was fair or good, was just providing facts that it wasn't just the MVFC that has been impacted over the years. Many posters were pontificating like it was a conspiracy against the MVFC, one stating it never happened to the CAA when they had multiple teams. Have to respond to inaccurate information.

Well all CAA teams being on one side didn't happen

The MVFC getting every team thrown into one side of the bracket the year after the title game involving two MVFC teams and the outrage that came from that is a bit more than a coincidence.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Well all CAA teams being on one side didn't happen

The MVFC getting every team thrown into one side of the bracket the year after the title game involving two MVFC teams and the outrage that came from that is a bit more than a coincidence.

...SO WHO WAS OUTRAGED..xconfusedx....ND ST/ILLRED......NEVER PLAYED DURIN' DUH SEASON...WHICH MADE DAT PARTICULAR TITLE GAME....ALLURIN'...IT'S BEEN DONE B/4.......GA SO/FURPLE......DUH TALK ALL DAT YEAR......ON AGS...WAS FACT DAT TWO KILLER SQWADS....DIDN'T MEET....IN SEASON....AH RECALL....IT'S HYPE....WAS EQUAL TA DELAWARE/DELAWARE STATE....AN UD's REFUSAL TA PLAY 'EM.......AH THINK...EVERAH-ONE WAS HOPIN' IT WOOD HAPPEN..........BRAWK!

[JayJ79]

determine the 24 playoff teams.
do a blind draw out of a hat to place teams in the brackets.
let the fates decide

[Twentysix]

...SO WHO WAS OUTRAGED..xconfusedx....ND ST/ILLRED......NEVER PLAYED DURIN' DUH SEASON...WHICH MADE DAT PARTICULAR TITLE GAME....ALLURIN'...IT'S BEEN DONE B/4.......GA SO/FURPLE......DUH TALK ALL DAT YEAR......ON AGS...WAS FACT DAT TWO KILLER SQWADS....DIDN'T MEET....IN SEASON....AH RECALL....IT'S HYPE....WAS EQUAL TA DELAWARE/DELAWARE STATE....AN UD's REFUSAL TA PLAY 'EM.......AH THINK...EVERAH-ONE WAS HOPIN' IT WOOD HAPPEN..........BRAWK!

No. Two teams from the same conference in the title game had never happened before at the FCS/IAA level.

But NDSU and USD from the NCC played each other for the DII championship.

That is akin to Jacksonville State joining the MVFC in 2023, then saying NDSU and Jacksonville State were from the same conference when they played each other in 2015.

[MR. CHICKEN]

OOOOPS!.......xembarrassedx...BRAWK!

[mvemjsunpx]

determine the 24 playoff teams.
do a blind draw out of a hat to place teams in the brackets.
let the fates decide

Yeah, that'll be popular. "Yeah, we know you're the best team in the field. You still have to go to Missoula in the first round, though. Sorry about that."

[BisonFan02]

determine the 24 playoff teams.
do a blind draw out of a hat to place teams in the brackets.
let the fates decide

This....and homefield is determined by mileage proximity to a Casey's General Store from your stadium. xlolx

[MR. CHICKEN]

determine the 24 playoff teams.
do a blind draw out of a hat to place teams in the brackets.
let the fates decide


....AN' TICKET PRICES......$275......ACROSS DUH BOARD @...EVERAH VENUE.........AWK!

[clenz]

This....and homefield is determined by mileage proximity to a Casey's General Store from your stadium. xlolx
Missoula just became the first non-Midwest city to get a Casey's....and they built it in the stadium.

[BisonFan02]

Missoula just became the first non-Midwest city to get a Casey's....and they built it in the stadium.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jYj7T9eEQ4U/hqdefault.jpg

[JayJ79]

nah. once the brackets are selected by random draw, home team is determined by coin flip.
(since neither scenario will ever actually occur anyway)

[Thumper 76]

Missoula just became the first non-Midwest city to get a Casey's....and they built it in the stadium.

Maybe we have time to add that to the plans of the Dykhouse quick xlolx