Top 10 FCS Recruiting Classes

[Catatonic]

Per 247 Sports

FCS (all D1) rank
1 (116) Lamar
2 (119) Coastal Carolina
3 (125) Harvard
4 (126) NDSU
5 (128) Yale
6 (129) SFA
7 (132) Furman
8 (133) Columbia
9 (134) Sam Houston
10 (135) Abilene Christian


Lamar was 220th last year. They are having a banner year in 2016.

http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

[Professor Chaos]

Kinda looks like the SRS xrolleyesx

[SENOREIDA]

Per 247 Sports

FCS (all D1) rank

1 (116) Lamar
2 (125) Harvard
3 (126) NDSU
4 (128) Yale
5 (129) SFA
6 (132) Furman
7 (133) Columbia
8 (134) Sam Houston
9 (135) Abilene Christian
10 (136) McNeese

* Coastal Carolina was excluded because they are leaving FCS. They would be #2 if counted.

Lamar was 220th last year. They are having a banner year in 2016.

http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
We are still an FCS school this year though xrolleyesx

[bluehenbillk]

They don't have a lot of commit info on FCS schools - look again after signing day & it will be more relevant.

[Nova09]

2 Harvard
4 Yale
7 Columbia

HA! Their players aren't even any good. They don't play anyone so we don't know how good they are, which proves to us they aren't any good. Sometimes an IVY game gets hyped for some reason and we all watch for a quarter and conclude their players just aren't as good as others, so they can't possibly bring in good players, bc then we couldn't conclude in a couple of years that their teams are full of not good players. Therefore, these rankings are laughable.

- - - Updated - - -


They don't have a lot of commit info on FCS schools - look again after signing day & it will be more relevant.

But seriously this is the appropriate response at this point in time

[Catatonic]

We are still an FCS school this year though xrolleyesx

Changed it.

[UNIFanSince1983]

We are still an FCS school this year though xrolleyesx

However, you are recruiting like you are an FBS school. I don't really think it should be considered an FCS class if these kids are being recruited knowing that you will be FBS the following year.

[Catatonic]

They don't have a lot of commit info on FCS schools - look again after signing day & it will be more relevant.

Additionally, they base rankings only on players in their data base. A lot of FCS recruits don't show up on one of the major recruiting sites and aren't factored in. So, for example, ACU has 13 commits that I know about but 247 shows only 6 because the others aren't found on 247, Rivals, Scout, or ESPN's recruiting sites. They won't show up after signing day either. And sometimes the final rankings of players downgrades them because they chose an FCS school. Happened to us 2 years ago...our 3 star QB recruit was downgraded to 2 stars after signing day.

Rankings make for a good discussion point though.

[McNeese75]

That is some funny stuff there

[clenz]

Bull****.

I'll say it in every single thread that recruiting rankings are mentioned...maybe someday someone will listen.


These don't mean ****. I worked for Rivals for about 5 years going across the state of Iowa gathering film on recruits for football and basketball. I cut the film to create game highlights and player highlights, published the film to the site, did interviews, involved with how to rank kids, etc... I know how this **** works.

247 doesn't know a damn thing about these classes beyond superficial ratings done on kids that they maybe saw 8 minutes of highlight tape on. That doesn't make 247 lazy, it's how Scout, Rivals, NY2LA (for BB), etc... do their rankings. Outside of the top 150-200 (even that's pushing it) the rankings are like the points on Whose Line Is It Anyway. For those unfamiliar (somehow) with that...

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/46/4688668e4138abc21361f6bde1e21598bf0d18751fb011bd6d 638cb06d94e6ec.jpg



Want some proof? I'll use specific names to make my case.

Class of 2010 - Andre Dawson http://sports.yahoo.com/uab/football/recruiting/player-Andre-Dawson-76560
I did film on him. Those highlights you see on Rivals...guess who was involved in that.

Look at his offer sheet - for those that don't want to click the link
Cinci
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Minnesota
Northern Illinois
Purdue
Wisconsin
Northern Iowa

He was, long considered, the best player in the state of Iowa. There was, at one point, a strong push to make him a top half 4* recruit. Towards the end of the recruiting cycle someone started a rumor he wasn't going to be a qualifier due to how well he liked UNI and how strongly he felt about going there -regardless of his other offers and how could a kid not be a clearing hows qualifier, yet still enroll as an athlete a D1 school. What did that do to people at Rivals and Scout? Sent them panicking. One e-mail I got on the topic said "We can't have a 4* kid commit to an FCS program out of high school. That would make a mockery of our rankings." so they dropped him from the #1 player in the state and out of the top 50 position rankings. They knew they couldn't drop him from 4 to 2 so they dinged him down to a low 3 and had anyone got "solid confirmation even one of his offers was pulled" he would have gone to 2* or N/R after being 3-4* just a few weeks earlier and for all of his JR and SR seasons.

Once Dawson got to campus he was pretty much disinterested in football. Transferred after a year to Iowa Western CC for a year, then to Iowa for a season and then quit football all together.

Other kids in the state of Iowa that year? David Johnson (we all know that name), AJ Derby (started at Arkansas and bouncing around the NFL), Jake Waters (started 2 years at K-State), Brandon Scherff (4 year starter at Iowa, top 5 NFL pick and NFL starter), James Morris (4 year starter at Iowa, All B10, now with NE), David Parry - All P12 guy at Stanford, drafted by the Colts and starts for them, Jack Rummells (3 year OL starter for UNI and on a couple camp/practice rosters this past year). Turns out Scherff and Morris were the only two liked by Rivals that year. Parry won the award for best NCAA senior that started career as a walk on. His only offers out of HS were UNI, Illinois State and Navy. Chose Stanford due to academics. Why were Parry and Johnson so low but guys like Dawson (who was probably "rightfully" dropped but for the wrong reason...anyone watching football in Iowa knew DJ was the better back) were high to start? Dawson played at a highly respected program that had produced B10 WRs like Adrian Arrington (of Michigan fame) and Keenan Davis (of Iowa fame) in the previous few years. DJ played on a Clinton team that was historically awful and he was their only bright spot. Same with Parry at Linn-Mar High (the district I now live in...and it's not a great program but getting better because of kids like Parry).

It's why the MVP is almost always the best player on the best team. It's easy to give them that award/rank them that high. Hard to justify a kid from a sub .500 program being a 3-4* kid.

Also keep in mind with DJ, had he played LB/SS in college and signed with Iowa/Iowa State (like they wanted to happen) he would have been a 3* "Athlete" because of where he signed. Instead, unranked RB for an FCS school.



Another one that's interesting is happening right now, and 247 is leading the charge at changing rankings on this one.

UNI DE/TE commit Desmond Chappel http://sports.yahoo.com/ucf/football/recruiting/player-Desmond-Chapple-183043 and http://247sports.com/Player/Desmond-Chapple-81282

He has offers from UNI (committed), Ball State, Miami (OH), Pittsburgh, SEMO, SIU, and Wyoming.
Jan 17 he was 3* across the board - Scout, Rivals and 247

On Jan 18th he tweeted "Blessed to say that I will be furthering my education and football career at the University of Northern Iowa!!! "...he has the tweet pinned to the top of his twitter

Rivals left him as a 3* and show he has a solid verbal. That's actually shocking to me. Watch it though, signing day he may be a 2*, or NR, depending who signs LOI where ahead of him.
Scout moved him to a 2* and show he has a solid verbal
247 has moved him to N/R and show him as uncommitted and "cool" for interest for every school...and I bet there will be zero updates to his page ever again.


Why? Can't have a FCS recruit ranked highly out of HS. Simply can't have it.

I could go on and on and on with examples but it doesn't matter. What the media has done to drive 25+ year old men to follow these kids every move is sickening. It's why I don't follow recruiting more than if something gets re-tweeted to my timeline so that I see a kid "committed". It's a perverse world.


But yeah...feel free to brag about being "ranked highly in the FCS recruiting rankings". We see it every year from the same set of schools. Yet those same schools can't seem to develop those kids to that potential because they never really accomplish anything as a team.

[Smitty]

As always star rankings and class rankings should be taken with a grain of salt. I know WCU was listed to have the best classes (in the SoCon I think) back when Wagner was running the show and it got us no where.

Either way it is the off season so debate away...

[FUBeAR]

Bull****.

I'll say it in every single thread that recruiting rankings are mentioned...maybe someday someone will listen.


These don't mean ****. I worked for Rivals for about 5 years going across the state of Iowa gathering film on recruits for football and basketball. I cut the film to create game highlights and player highlights, published the film to the site, did interviews, involved with how to rank kids, etc... I know how this **** works.

247 doesn't know a damn thing about these classes beyond superficial ratings done on kids that they maybe saw 8 minutes of highlight tape on. That doesn't make 247 lazy, it's how Scout, Rivals, NY2LA (for BB), etc... do their rankings. Outside of the top 150-200 (even that's pushing it) the rankings are like the points on Whose Line Is It Anyway. For those unfamiliar (somehow) with that...

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/46/4688668e4138abc21361f6bde1e21598bf0d18751fb011bd6d 638cb06d94e6ec.jpg



Want some proof? I'll use specific names to make my case.

Class of 2010 - Andre Dawson http://sports.yahoo.com/uab/football/recruiting/player-Andre-Dawson-76560
I did film on him. Those highlights you see on Rivals...guess who was involved in that.

Look at his offer sheet - for those that don't want to click the link
Cinci
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Minnesota
Northern Illinois
Purdue
Wisconsin
Northern Iowa

He was, long considered, the best player in the state of Iowa. There was, at one point, a strong push to make him a top half 4* recruit. Towards the end of the recruiting cycle someone started a rumor he wasn't going to be a qualifier due to how well he liked UNI and how strongly he felt about going there -regardless of his other offers. What did that do to people at Rivals and Scout? Sent them panicing. One e-mail I got on the topic said "We can't have a 4* kid commit to an FCS program out of high school. That would make a mockery of our rankings." so they dropped him from the #1 player in the state and out of the top 50 position rankings. They knew they couldn't drop him from 4 to 2 so they dinged him down to a low 3 and had anyone got "solid confirmation even one of his offers was pulled" he would have gone to 2* or N/R after being 3-4* just a few weeks earlier and for all of his JR and SR seasons.

Once Dawson got to campus he was pretty much disinterested in football. Transferred after a year to Iowa Western CC for a year, then to Iowa for a season and then quit football all together.

Other kids in the state of Iowa that year? David Johnson, AJ Derby (started at Arkansas and bouncing around the NFL), Jake Waters (stated at K-State), Brandon Scherff (4 year starter at Iowa, top 5 NFL pick and NFL starter), James Morris (4 year starter at Iowa, All B10, now with NE). David Parry - All P12 guy at Stanford, drafted by the Colts and starts for them, Jack Rummells (3 year OL starter for UNI and on a couple camp/practice rosters this past year). Turns out Scherff and Morris were the only two liked by Rivals that year. Parry won the award for best NCAA senior that started career as a walk on. His only offers out of HS were UNI, Illinois State and Navy. Chose Stanford due to academics.



Another one that's interesting is happening right now, and 247 is leading the charge at changing rankings on this one.

UNI DE/TE commit Desmond Chappel http://sports.yahoo.com/ucf/football/recruiting/player-Desmond-Chapple-183043 and http://247sports.com/Player/Desmond-Chapple-81282

He has offers from UNI (committed), Ball State, Miami (OH), Pittsburgh, SEMO, SIU, and Wyoming.
Jan 17 he was 3* across the board - Scout, Rivals and 247

On Jan 18th he tweeted "Blessed to say that I will be furthering my education and football career at the University of Northern Iowa!!! "...he has the tweet pinned to the top of his twitter

Rivals left him as a 3* and show he has a solid verbal. That's actually shocking to me. Watch it though, signing day he may be a 2*, or NR, depending who signs LOI where ahead of him.
Scout moved him to a 2* and show he has a solid verbal
247 has moved him to N/R and show him as uncommitted and "cool" for interest for every school...and I bet there will be zero updates to his page ever again.


Why? Can't have a FCS recruit ranked highly out of HS. Simply can't have it.

I could go on and on and on with examples but it doesn't matter. What the media has done to drive 25+ year old men to follow these kids every move is sickening. It's why I don't follow recruiting more than if something gets re-tweeted to my timeline so that I see a kid "committed". It's a perverse world.


But yeah...feel free to brag about being "ranked highly in the FCS recruiting rankings". We see it every year from the same set of schools. Yet those same schools can't seem to develop those kids to that potential because they never really accomplish anything as a team.

http://i.giphy.com/dOJt6XZlQw8qQ.gif

[DFW HOYA]

Patriot League rankings:

161. Holy Cross
178. Lafayette
190. Bucknell
192. Lehigh
193. Colgate
220. Fordham

Georgetown was not listed among the top 260. With only 245 schools in Division I, that's not promising, but perhaps there's something else in play.

And for those who ask why Georgetown doesn't get football players to commit early as other schools do, these numbers should answer the question...and redouble the concern about competing without scholarship aid.

"Georgetown accepted 13 percent of its early action applicants to the Class of 2020 this past week, an acceptance rate consistent with that of the last several years. The university mailed acceptance letters to 892 of a record-high 7,027 applicants Friday, marking an early action acceptance rate equal to the 13 percent for the Class of 2019...The average admitted student was in the top 2 percent of his class, with average SAT scores of 690-780 and 700-770 in critical reading and math, respectively."

http://www.thehoya.com/early-admissions-rate-remains-consistent/

[McNeese72]

Keith Zembower's Sunday, Jan 24, blog on how the recruiting services work is very good. Click the link then scroll down to that date.

I always like how players gained or lost stars by who was recruiting them.

https://zemsgems.wordpress.com/

Doc

[clenz]

Keith Zembower's Sunday, Jan 24, blog on how the recruiting services work is very good. Click the link then scroll down to that date.

I always like how players gained or lost stars by who was recruiting them.

https://zemsgems.wordpress.com/

Doc
Yup...see my post.

It's all a scam to generate money by forcing people to subscribe to their sites and exploit these kids and the creeps that follow recruiting that closely.

All about the name

[McNeese72]

Yup...see my post.

It's all a scam to generate money by forcing people to subscribe to their sites and exploit these kids and the creeps that follow recruiting that closely.

All about the name

That is pretty much what Zem says.

Doc

[clenz]

That is pretty much what Zem says.

Doc
He's 100% accurate if that's the case.

Haven't read the article yet, but I did bookmark it to catch it later today

[F'N Hawks]

Yup...see my post.

It's all a scam to generate money by forcing people to subscribe to their sites and exploit these kids and the creeps that follow recruiting that closely.

All about the name

Great job Clenz in pointing this stuff out. At the FCS level it is so stupid and worthless. I gave up on the "star" rankings years ago when UND would sign 5'10" corners out of CA that were "2-stars". Well we found out they went to a Rivals camp and combine and therefore, got ranked. They showed up on campus and were f'ing terrible. And 5'8".

[BisonFan02]

Bull****.

I'll say it in every single thread that recruiting rankings are mentioned...maybe someday someone will listen.


These don't mean ****. I worked for Rivals for about 5 years going across the state of Iowa gathering film on recruits for football and basketball. I cut the film to create game highlights and player highlights, published the film to the site, did interviews, involved with how to rank kids, etc... I know how this **** works.

247 doesn't know a damn thing about these classes beyond superficial ratings done on kids that they maybe saw 8 minutes of highlight tape on. That doesn't make 247 lazy, it's how Scout, Rivals, NY2LA (for BB), etc... do their rankings. Outside of the top 150-200 (even that's pushing it) the rankings are like the points on Whose Line Is It Anyway. For those unfamiliar (somehow) with that...

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/46/4688668e4138abc21361f6bde1e21598bf0d18751fb011bd6d 638cb06d94e6ec.jpg



Want some proof? I'll use specific names to make my case.

Class of 2010 - Andre Dawson http://sports.yahoo.com/uab/football/recruiting/player-Andre-Dawson-76560
I did film on him. Those highlights you see on Rivals...guess who was involved in that.

Look at his offer sheet - for those that don't want to click the link
Cinci
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Minnesota
Northern Illinois
Purdue
Wisconsin
Northern Iowa

He was, long considered, the best player in the state of Iowa. There was, at one point, a strong push to make him a top half 4* recruit. Towards the end of the recruiting cycle someone started a rumor he wasn't going to be a qualifier due to how well he liked UNI and how strongly he felt about going there -regardless of his other offers and how could a kid not be a clearing hows qualifier, yet still enroll as an athlete a D1 school. What did that do to people at Rivals and Scout? Sent them panicking. One e-mail I got on the topic said "We can't have a 4* kid commit to an FCS program out of high school. That would make a mockery of our rankings." so they dropped him from the #1 player in the state and out of the top 50 position rankings. They knew they couldn't drop him from 4 to 2 so they dinged him down to a low 3 and had anyone got "solid confirmation even one of his offers was pulled" he would have gone to 2* or N/R after being 3-4* just a few weeks earlier and for all of his JR and SR seasons.

Once Dawson got to campus he was pretty much disinterested in football. Transferred after a year to Iowa Western CC for a year, then to Iowa for a season and then quit football all together.

Other kids in the state of Iowa that year? David Johnson (we all know that name), AJ Derby (started at Arkansas and bouncing around the NFL), Jake Waters (started 2 years at K-State), Brandon Scherff (4 year starter at Iowa, top 5 NFL pick and NFL starter), James Morris (4 year starter at Iowa, All B10, now with NE), David Parry - All P12 guy at Stanford, drafted by the Colts and starts for them, Jack Rummells (3 year OL starter for UNI and on a couple camp/practice rosters this past year). Turns out Scherff and Morris were the only two liked by Rivals that year. Parry won the award for best NCAA senior that started career as a walk on. His only offers out of HS were UNI, Illinois State and Navy. Chose Stanford due to academics. Why were Parry and Johnson so low but guys like Dawson (who was probably "rightfully" dropped but for the wrong reason...anyone watching football in Iowa knew DJ was the better back) were high to start? Dawson played at a highly respected program that had produced B10 WRs like Adrian Arrington (of Michigan fame) and Keenan Davis (of Iowa fame) in the previous few years. DJ played on a Clinton team that was historically awful and he was their only bright spot. Same with Parry at Linn-Mar High (the district I now live in...and it's not a great program but getting better because of kids like Parry).

It's why the MVP is almost always the best player on the best team. It's easy to give them that award/rank them that high. Hard to justify a kid from a sub .500 program being a 3-4* kid.

Also keep in mind with DJ, had he played LB/SS in college and signed with Iowa/Iowa State (like they wanted to happen) he would have been a 3* "Athlete" because of where he signed. Instead, unranked RB for an FCS school.



Another one that's interesting is happening right now, and 247 is leading the charge at changing rankings on this one.

UNI DE/TE commit Desmond Chappel http://sports.yahoo.com/ucf/football/recruiting/player-Desmond-Chapple-183043 and http://247sports.com/Player/Desmond-Chapple-81282

He has offers from UNI (committed), Ball State, Miami (OH), Pittsburgh, SEMO, SIU, and Wyoming.
Jan 17 he was 3* across the board - Scout, Rivals and 247

On Jan 18th he tweeted "Blessed to say that I will be furthering my education and football career at the University of Northern Iowa!!! "...he has the tweet pinned to the top of his twitter

Rivals left him as a 3* and show he has a solid verbal. That's actually shocking to me. Watch it though, signing day he may be a 2*, or NR, depending who signs LOI where ahead of him.
Scout moved him to a 2* and show he has a solid verbal
247 has moved him to N/R and show him as uncommitted and "cool" for interest for every school...and I bet there will be zero updates to his page ever again.


Why? Can't have a FCS recruit ranked highly out of HS. Simply can't have it.

I could go on and on and on with examples but it doesn't matter. What the media has done to drive 25+ year old men to follow these kids every move is sickening. It's why I don't follow recruiting more than if something gets re-tweeted to my timeline so that I see a kid "committed". It's a perverse world.


But yeah...feel free to brag about being "ranked highly in the FCS recruiting rankings". We see it every year from the same set of schools. Yet those same schools can't seem to develop those kids to that potential because they never really accomplish anything as a team.



This.....and I don't know if any of those sites acknowledge that ND is indeed a state. The list of NDSU players that are "N/A" is LONG......especially the local guys.

[McNeese72]

He's 100% accurate if that's the case.

Haven't read the article yet, but I did bookmark it to catch it later today

It's a good read starting with how he started making lists in the late 70's, his interactions with some of the recruiting gurus back then, and how the recruiting lists and services have evolved into what they are today.

Doc

[iowastatebison]

It would be interesting to see how these ranking relate to reality. Maybe create a post class rankings system.

For example give five starts to players who were drafted, four to players who walked on to nfl teams and/or were invited to senior bowl camps. Three stars for players who started three plus years. Two stars for players who started one or two years, and one star for players who were on the roster for at least three years. Zero stars for players who ended up quitting football.

[centennial]

Like Clenz said, I've seen players go from 2* to NR when they join NDSU. Also your averages will drop when you take NR players. I still believe the quality of our recruiting is at a MAC level now(last 2-3 years), plus we have a world class strength and conditioning program, and a good red shirting program. If we were FBS our recruiting class would probably be in the 80-100 range.

[Mattymc727]

I have completely lost faith in the recruiting services for the FCS level. twitter and highlight films are really the only way we can make a judgement at this level. UNH is ALWAYS out recruited by JMU, Nova, and W&M according to these sites, yet we are often equal if not better on the field than they are.

Its fun to get excited by the incoming recruits, but there is so much development that has to happen between a 17/18 yr old kid and a 22 yr old man. It almost makes this whole thing render less. Perhaps on paper Lamar has a better class than UNH right now, but id put down my weekly paycheck that in 4 years UNH will be a better team.

[PaladinNation]

On paper this is a pretty good looking class for Furman. But as all others have stated, we won't know till they hit the field.
As far as Furman commits, a bit of video comparison between a 3-star commit RB Darius Morehead, Ensworth High and WR Bailey Rogers, Wren HS (zero stars). Morehead (reminds me of Jason Foster), plays for a Tennessee powerhouse program (offers from Navy, and Army), Rogers plays for a modestly successful SC program (rumor has it he had an offer from APP). My point as nice as it is to have five commits from 3-star recruits, the majority of Furman's class 14 have zero stars, these guys will be the future of the program. And my guess is Rogers has as great a chance at being a special player for Furman as Morehead.

Darius Morehead: http://www.hudl.com/athlete/1766702/highlights/301089492/v2
Bailey Rogers: http://www.hudl.com/athlete/1719849/highlights/297876431/v2

[SFA 93]

On paper SFA is having it's greatest recruiting class ever come to light.

Coach Conque and staff are really loading up on explosive athletic players.

ATH: Zach Hall *** (#41 ATH; #87 State) <Rivals> Offers from Baylor, Texas Tech, Missouri

CB: Aaron Foy ** (#3 ATH; #25 State) <247sports> JUCO

ATH: Ke'Mon Freeman *** (#73 QB; #12 State) <Scout>

ATH: Tamrick Pace *** (#113 ATH; #184 State) <247sports>

CB: Trent Perriman ** (#37 CB; #99 State) <247sports> JUCO

DE: Malik George ** (#117 WDE; #120 State) <247sports>

RB: Kijana Amous ** (#145 RB) <247sports> JUCO

WR: Thomas Nolley ** (#225 State) <247sports>

DE: Chris Leaks ** <Rivals>

QB: Caleb Evans ** <Rivals>

WR: Alex Gregory ** <Rivals>

S: Trey Ramos ** <Rivals>

[dewey]

Bull****.

I'll say it in every single thread that recruiting rankings are mentioned...maybe someday someone will listen.


These don't mean ****. I worked for Rivals for about 5 years going across the state of Iowa gathering film on recruits for football and basketball. I cut the film to create game highlights and player highlights, published the film to the site, did interviews, involved with how to rank kids, etc... I know how this **** works.

247 doesn't know a damn thing about these classes beyond superficial ratings done on kids that they maybe saw 8 minutes of highlight tape on. That doesn't make 247 lazy, it's how Scout, Rivals, NY2LA (for BB), etc... do their rankings. Outside of the top 150-200 (even that's pushing it) the rankings are like the points on Whose Line Is It Anyway. For those unfamiliar (somehow) with that...

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/46/4688668e4138abc21361f6bde1e21598bf0d18751fb011bd6d 638cb06d94e6ec.jpg



Want some proof? I'll use specific names to make my case.

Class of 2010 - Andre Dawson http://sports.yahoo.com/uab/football/recruiting/player-Andre-Dawson-76560
I did film on him. Those highlights you see on Rivals...guess who was involved in that.

Look at his offer sheet - for those that don't want to click the link
Cinci
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Minnesota
Northern Illinois
Purdue
Wisconsin
Northern Iowa

He was, long considered, the best player in the state of Iowa. There was, at one point, a strong push to make him a top half 4* recruit. Towards the end of the recruiting cycle someone started a rumor he wasn't going to be a qualifier due to how well he liked UNI and how strongly he felt about going there -regardless of his other offers and how could a kid not be a clearing hows qualifier, yet still enroll as an athlete a D1 school. What did that do to people at Rivals and Scout? Sent them panicking. One e-mail I got on the topic said "We can't have a 4* kid commit to an FCS program out of high school. That would make a mockery of our rankings." so they dropped him from the #1 player in the state and out of the top 50 position rankings. They knew they couldn't drop him from 4 to 2 so they dinged him down to a low 3 and had anyone got "solid confirmation even one of his offers was pulled" he would have gone to 2* or N/R after being 3-4* just a few weeks earlier and for all of his JR and SR seasons.

Once Dawson got to campus he was pretty much disinterested in football. Transferred after a year to Iowa Western CC for a year, then to Iowa for a season and then quit football all together.

Other kids in the state of Iowa that year? David Johnson (we all know that name), AJ Derby (started at Arkansas and bouncing around the NFL), Jake Waters (started 2 years at K-State), Brandon Scherff (4 year starter at Iowa, top 5 NFL pick and NFL starter), James Morris (4 year starter at Iowa, All B10, now with NE), David Parry - All P12 guy at Stanford, drafted by the Colts and starts for them, Jack Rummells (3 year OL starter for UNI and on a couple camp/practice rosters this past year). Turns out Scherff and Morris were the only two liked by Rivals that year. Parry won the award for best NCAA senior that started career as a walk on. His only offers out of HS were UNI, Illinois State and Navy. Chose Stanford due to academics. Why were Parry and Johnson so low but guys like Dawson (who was probably "rightfully" dropped but for the wrong reason...anyone watching football in Iowa knew DJ was the better back) were high to start? Dawson played at a highly respected program that had produced B10 WRs like Adrian Arrington (of Michigan fame) and Keenan Davis (of Iowa fame) in the previous few years. DJ played on a Clinton team that was historically awful and he was their only bright spot. Same with Parry at Linn-Mar High (the district I now live in...and it's not a great program but getting better because of kids like Parry).

It's why the MVP is almost always the best player on the best team. It's easy to give them that award/rank them that high. Hard to justify a kid from a sub .500 program being a 3-4* kid.

Also keep in mind with DJ, had he played LB/SS in college and signed with Iowa/Iowa State (like they wanted to happen) he would have been a 3* "Athlete" because of where he signed. Instead, unranked RB for an FCS school.



Another one that's interesting is happening right now, and 247 is leading the charge at changing rankings on this one.

UNI DE/TE commit Desmond Chappel http://sports.yahoo.com/ucf/football/recruiting/player-Desmond-Chapple-183043 and http://247sports.com/Player/Desmond-Chapple-81282

He has offers from UNI (committed), Ball State, Miami (OH), Pittsburgh, SEMO, SIU, and Wyoming.
Jan 17 he was 3* across the board - Scout, Rivals and 247

On Jan 18th he tweeted "Blessed to say that I will be furthering my education and football career at the University of Northern Iowa!!! "...he has the tweet pinned to the top of his twitter

Rivals left him as a 3* and show he has a solid verbal. That's actually shocking to me. Watch it though, signing day he may be a 2*, or NR, depending who signs LOI where ahead of him.
Scout moved him to a 2* and show he has a solid verbal
247 has moved him to N/R and show him as uncommitted and "cool" for interest for every school...and I bet there will be zero updates to his page ever again.


Why? Can't have a FCS recruit ranked highly out of HS. Simply can't have it.

I could go on and on and on with examples but it doesn't matter. What the media has done to drive 25+ year old men to follow these kids every move is sickening. It's why I don't follow recruiting more than if something gets re-tweeted to my timeline so that I see a kid "committed". It's a perverse world.


But yeah...feel free to brag about being "ranked highly in the FCS recruiting rankings". We see it every year from the same set of schools. Yet those same schools can't seem to develop those kids to that potential because they never really accomplish anything as a team.

M-V-P! M-V-P! M-V-P!

Dewey

[Catatonic]

I don't really disagree with any of the arguments raised against rating FCS recruiting. I posted the rankings for amusement and off season discussion. There exists evidence of a strong correlation between P5 rankings and performance. Schools with top 10 recruiting classes are likely to show up in top 10 polls. And 5 star athletes are much more likely to be drafted in early rounds by the NFL than 2 or 3 star guys.

But it's a long way from P5 to FCS. The two should not be confused. Services simply don't pay that much attention to players at our level. And starn ratings are more susceptible to manipulation, up or down, by the services.

So write down the name Lamar. Let's see if a banner recruiting year results in improved on the field performance two years out. Or not.

[Go Green]

2 Harvard
4 Yale
7 Columbia



Yale has claimed that they've had the best recruiting classes in the Ivy for the past several years. It hasn't translated to success on the field.

[Gangtackle11]

The business of ratings HS players is just that a business. In fact an entertainment business.

Player from our local HS was a high 3 star player by 1 of the popular services throughout the process & even ranked #1 in his state & #4 in the East at his position his senior season.

He went to an fine academic FCS school and his final rating was 2 stars.

So what was it a drop off of talent or the FCS choice?

[AmsterBison]

Heck, most in-state guys NDSU recruits don't even get a rating unless they get a B1G school interested. Heck, apparently, committing to even an FBS like Wyoming automatically means a kid is better than anybody signing at NDSU. You'd think that by this time getting an NDSU offer would automatically jump somebody up to two-stars as a base. :)

[Silenoz]

Oh ****, Austin Peay is killing us out there. No wonder we suck, get it together UM! xdrunkyx

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Oh ****, Austin Peay is killing us out there. No wonder we suck, get it together UM! xdrunkyx

Today on espn they were talking about the Texas schools recruiting classes, with Texas being #5 behind Houston, Baylor, Texas Tech, TCU. What you think about that? You kitty Kats beating them out too??

Sorry about the drift... but it's kinda on topic.....
Edit: Texas A&M not tech....

[centennial]

Today on espn they were talking about the Texas schools recruiting classes, with Texas being #5 behind Houston, Baylor, Texas Tech, TCU. What you think about that? You kitty Kats beating them out too??

Sorry about the drift... but it's kinda on topic.....
Stars are overrated. They need good strong players, not the ones with the most stars.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Stars are overrated. They need good strong players, not the ones with the most stars.

Agreed but as has been talked about they do a much better job covering those larger markets. And is there a bigger market than texas football????

[Catatonic]

Agreed but as has been talked about they do a much better job covering those larger markets. And is there a bigger market than texas football????

Texas is a big state. The recruiting services blanket the I 35 corridor from Dallas to Houston with coverage, particularly for the big school programs (6A and 5A). East Texas gets some focus. Other areas of the state receive less attention. South Texas and far West Texas probably receive about as much focus as the Dakotas.

FCS programs look for "hidden gems" from smaller schools and in geographically overlooked areas. The ratings on 247 are based mainly on the occasional "big school" recruit from covered areas we manage to take away from the big boys. I can't speak for other programs but this year we have been able to take advantage of the uncertainty at a number of mid-major schools in Texas that have changed coaches-North Texas, Texas State and UTSA. Our most recent commit, for example, was a former Texas State commit from an area that gets the attention of 247 and its peers.

[PaladinFan]

Well, in any event, nice to see Furman up near the top.

I don't read much into this stuff, but at this time of the year coming off a few bad seasons, you hold on to what's available.

[Catatonic]

Well, in any event, nice to see Furman up near the top.

I don't read much into this stuff, but at this time of the year coming off a few bad seasons, you hold on to what's available.


Yup. Could.Not. Agree.More. It ain't much, but it's all we got. Especially after a 3-8 season, in our case.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Texas is a big state. The recruiting services blanket the I 35 corridor from Dallas to Houston with coverage, particularly for the big school programs (6A and 5A). East Texas gets some focus. Other areas of the state receive less attention. South Texas and far West Texas probably receive about as much focus as the Dakotas.

FCS programs look for "hidden gems" from smaller schools and in geographically overlooked areas. The ratings on 247 are based mainly on the occasional "big school" recruit from covered areas we manage to take away from the big boys. I can't speak for other programs but this year we have been able to take advantage of the uncertainty at a number of mid-major schools in Texas that have changed coaches-North Texas, Texas State and UTSA. Our most recent commit, for example, was a former Texas State commit from an area that gets the attention of 247 and its peers.

Texas is so crazy full of talent. Just to think Fred Jackson was 3rd string on his High School team Lamar in Arlington. He was behind a guy that went to Stanford and one that went to TCU. Just a sheer string of luck that he reached the height that he has reached.

[Sycamore62]

I didnt have time to read all of the thread and Clenz's long post but it was moving toward what I suspected.

It would be cool if someone could take these ratings and compare them to how much they played at whatever level and team. for example if a 5 star recruit plays defense at Alabama it would be accurate and if a 4 star recruit ends up getting a little playing time on a terrible offense for (insert team you think would be very low level)

[BisonTru]

22153

This is for the big boys, but still interesting.

[ST_Lawson]

22153

This is for the big boys, but still interesting.

So, essentially it's saying that the further into the grey part you are, the more you are outperforming your recruiting, and the further into the red part, the more you are underperforming based on recruiting.

Teams like Stanford, Wisconsin, Boise State, Northern Illinois, Northwestern, Nevada, Utah State, and Air Force, for example...do better than their recruiting would suggest.
Teams like Michigan, Ole Miss, Cal, Colorado, Kansas and Memphis, for example...do worse than their recruiting says they should.

[bulldog10jw]

Yale has claimed that they've had the best recruiting classes in the Ivy for the past several years. It hasn't translated to success on the field.

I never heard anyone claim that anyone except Harvard had the best recruiting classes. I think you're making it up.

[nevadagriz]

NDSU has had the best recruiting class for about 8yrs now! Don't tell me about stars or any recruit rankings. The Bizon go out and get good kids that buy in and play for each other. I will take that any day over a couple 3 and 2 stars per class.
Find an identity for your offense and defense, recruit kids to fit it and cut loose the ones who don't want to be team players!

[Sycamore62]

NDSU has had the best recruiting class for about 8yrs now! Don't tell me about stars or any recruit rankings. The Bizon go out and get good kids that buy in and play for each other. I will take that any day over a couple 3 and 2 stars per class.
Find an identity for your offense and defense, recruit kids to fit it and cut loose the ones who don't want to be team players!

yep solid gameplan. no other team in the country does this.

[centennial]

yep solid gameplan. no other team in the country does this.
I think plenty of teams try this. NDSU might be among the best at CFB at actually implementing it.

[Catatonic]

I think plenty of teams try this. NDSU might be among the best at CFB at actually implementing it.

That and a good S&C and redshirt program, as pointed out earlier in this thread. I have read NDSU has 100% participation in "voluntary" summer workouts. I doubt many programs have that level of buy-in.

[DFW HOYA]

That and a good S&C and redshirt program, as pointed out earlier in this thread. I have read NDSU has 100% participation in "voluntary" summer workouts. I doubt many programs have that level of buy-in.

Some players have jobs in the summer and don't have the ability to stay on campus for OTA's.

[centennial]

That and a good S&C and redshirt program, as pointed out earlier in this thread. I have read NDSU has 100% participation in "voluntary" summer workouts. I doubt many programs have that level of buy-in.
We would rather have high character guys that needs work vs 3 star guy that doesn't flash in practice. Yes our S&C and redshirt programs are excellent. I am surprised that a P5 school hasn't taken Jim Kramer away from NDSU.

[FUBeAR]

Don't tell me about stars or any recruit rankings.
Go out and get good kids that buy in and play for each other. I will take that any day over a couple 3 and 2 stars per class.
Find an identity for your offense and defense, recruit kids to fit it
Cut loose the ones who don't want to be team players!

DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!

[Nickels]

It's stupid to rank signing classes before the players have played a down. It's even stupider to rank them before signing day...Especially at the FCS level....

[Casey_Orourke]

Don't tell me about stars or any recruit rankings. Go out and get good kids that buy in and play for each other. I will take that any day over a couple 3 and 2 stars per class.
Find an identity for your offense and defense, recruit kids to fit it and cut loose the ones who don't want to be team players!

That is exactly what Barnum did for Portland State this year. When he asked at the beginning of the season who the stars were, his answer was "Nobody."
He introduced his fundamental blue-collar approach to playing football an the team created the identity of #Barnyball.

Not sure where our recruiting, but what has been made public, it looks like the success we've had this season has resulted in some great recruiting.
http://www.herosports.com/news/portland-state-reaps-recruiting-benefits-from-standout-season

and just got the word on this new addition.
https://twitter.com/KorbinSorensen/status/693246491419250689

[centennial]

It's stupid to rank signing classes before the players have played a down. It's even stupider to rank them before signing day...Especially at the FCS level....
I think there is some science at upper FBS level but after that it's a wash. Take for example NIU, they are about the same level of recruiting as NDSU(maybe a few better players), however they have put teams into the top 25. It's what you do with this talent. Another good example is Texas, they can for the most part still cherry pick who they want from Texas, but they aren't very good.

[MR. CHICKEN]

....COACH'S.....ABILITY.....TA GENERATE CHEMISTRY....AMONGST....DUH STARS/GRUNTS & GOOBS.....LIKE DuPONT MOTTO......"BETTERAH PLAYIN' THRU CHEMISTRY".....(NOT DUH STREET KIND)......AWK!

[CasualFan]

Found via another site's forum:

HS Recruiting Rank of the 2016 Super Bowl Starters:
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/1/27/10826862/super-bowl-2016-broncos-panthers-high-school-recruiting-ratings

[Mattymc727]

UNH had a lineman visit this past weekend, committed sunday night at 10pm, and by Tuesday morning he de-committed and is now signing with Rutgers...Brutal...

[Catatonic]

UNH had a lineman visit this past weekend, committed sunday night at 10pm, and by Tuesday morning he de-committed and is now signing with Rutgers...Brutal...

Welcome to the wacky world of last minute recruiting. Abilene offered a DB last week and he planned to visit campus over the weekend. An hour later Arkansas offered, and suddenly he was off to Fayetteville instead of Abilene. He committed to the Hogs as soon as he arrived on campus.

Once the big schools figure out guys higher on their position board are going elsewhere,they start moving down the list and extending offers to FCS commits and targets. FCS loses most of those battles. Brutal is a good word to describe it.

[Mattymc727]

Welcome to the wacky world of last minute recruiting. Abilene offered a DB last week and he planned to visit campus over the weekend. An hour later Arkansas offered, and suddenly he was off to Fayetteville instead of Abilene. He committed to the Hogs as soon as he arrived on campus.

Once the big schools figure out guys higher on their position board are going elsewhere,they start moving down the list and extending offers to FCS commits and targets. FCS loses most of those battles. Brutal is a good word to describe it.

Agreed, happens every year, just thought the turnaround for this kid was pretty ridiculous. He didnt even take an official to Rutgers before signing day. Just committed once an offer came in. Although, he was from NJ so hes probably very familiar with the program.

[BEAR]

DE: Chris Leaks ** <Rivals>


From our board Leaks visited SFA just the other day and chose to walk-on at UCA.

From our local recruting guru:

A little info on this. Leaks held an offer from UCA, but they filled the position before he could commit. He committed to SF Austin, took his official visit this past weekend, and decided it wasn't for him. He wanted to stay in-state, so he called and worked out a preferred walk on option.

[Sammy94]

From our board Leaks visited SFA just the other day and chose to walk-on at UCA.

You mean he didn't want to move to the middle of no where to lose a bunch of games?

[srgrizizen]

I think no FCS players should be ranked until their playing careers are over. For example, every NDSU senior for the last five years should be retroactively awarded four stars!xlolx

[SFA 93]

Good for him! Go where you need to go to be happy.

[SFA 93]

SFA Football 2016 National Signing Day on ESPN3

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/id/2759410/size/condensed/ (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/id/2759410/size/condensed/)

[Model Citizen]

Dayton has the #1 class. Look at these names...you can't prove me wrong.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DaytonFootball?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Es erp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[jsualumnus]

Here is a link to the 2015 JSU recruiting class: some transfers already enrolled... I think we have Dayton beat, maybe. by. just. a. little. margin....

http://gojaxstate.boards.net/thread/2098/newest-gamecocks-2016-edition

[BisonTru]

Dayton has the #1 class. Look at these names...you can't prove me wrong.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DaytonFootball?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Es erp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Gotta love the pioneer. We can't afford to give you a scholarship, but we'll fly you all over the country and give you a ring if you win the conference.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22170&stc=1

Our guys would be out of figures.

http://schmoesknow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/iron-man-3-ten-rings.jpeg

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

We should just give up on the evaluating the players on skill and move on to judging who has the best class by the sheer number of outrageous names per organization. NDSU will contribute with our crazy polish mafia...the legendowski's

[AmsterBison]

Here is a link to the 2015 JSU recruiting class: some transfers already enrolled... I think we have Dayton beat, maybe. by. just. a. little. margin....

http://gojaxstate.boards.net/thread/2098/newest-gamecocks-2016-edition

Only one OL who is 6-3 255? Does JSU make all OL walk on or something?

[jsualumnus]

Only one OL who is 6-3 255? Does JSU make all OL walk on or something?


Ha!! Naw... I thought the same thing... He'll be used as a DL'man... You might see one sign later, or a transfer come in later, but we went after skill positions that we needed to replace quicker than OL'men. We are heavy there, for a lack of better terms!

[Model Citizen]

Surprised no one noticed how Dayton tweeted fancy graphics of commitments by city and state. No names given. It's like a witness protection program.

[Catatonic]

We should just give up on the evaluating the players on skill and move on to judging who has the best class by the sheer number of outrageous names per organization. NDSU will contribute with our crazy polish mafia...the legendowski's

Abilene Christian wishes to nominate Anietie Etuk and Temisan Kuyatsemi. Thankfully, these guys wish to be known as Etuk and TK respectively.

Thought about nominating our Greek God Adonis, but he was eliminated based on his commoner last name, Davis. Makoni Pole was our other semifinalist.

[chattownmocs]

Grass not interested in recruiting at all. Transfer...transfer....transfer..... It looks like theyve saved a bunch of spots for summer transfers as well. He wants out.

[McNeese72]

Well, McNeese is behind the curve again because we only have one unusual name, TESSYLIM ANIFOWOSHE, JR. When asked how to pronounce his name, his position coach said he will call him "Tess" and if he doesn't like that "T". ;)

[Catatonic]

Well, McNeese is behind the curve again because we only have one unusual name, TESSYLIM ANIFOWOSHE, JR. When asked how to pronounce his name, his position coach said he will call him "Tess" and if he doesn't like that "T". ;)




Sometimes all it really takes is one really good 5 Star name. TESSYLIM ANIFOWOSHE, JR. has gotta be an instant contender.

We are still living in the past up in Abilene recalling those golden years when Charcandrick West was appointed to the all-name All American team.

[JSUSoutherner]

Grass not interested in recruiting at all. Transfer...transfer....transfer..... It looks like theyve saved a bunch of spots for summer transfers as well. He wants out.

So 26.6% (4 out of 15) of UTC's commits yesterday were transfers and 24% (6 out of 25) of JSU's were and we are the ones "loading up on transfers"?

UTC: http://www.gomocs.com/news/2016/2/2/FB_0202164403.aspx

JSU: http://gojaxstate.boards.net/thread/2098/newest-gamecocks-2016-edition

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22175&stc=1

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

So 26.6% (4 out of 15) of UTC's commits yesterday were transfers and 24% (6 out of 25) of JSU's were and we are the ones "loading up on transfers"?

UTC: http://www.gomocs.com/news/2016/2/2/FB_0202164403.aspx

JSU: http://gojaxstate.boards.net/thread/2098/newest-gamecocks-2016-edition

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22175&stc=1

NDSU went after the most important position on the team for our transfer..... The Punter baby!! https://youtu.be/EYGNwIIJg0I

[JSUSoutherner]

NDSU went after the most important position on the team for our transfer..... The Punter baby!! https://youtu.be/EYGNwIIJg0I
We just stole EIU's punter to fill our vacancy. Lol

[chattownmocs]

So 26.6% (4 out of 15) of UTC's commits yesterday were transfers and 24% (6 out of 25) of JSU's were and we are the ones "loading up on transfers"?

UTC: http://www.gomocs.com/news/2016/2/2/FB_0202164403.aspx

JSU: http://gojaxstate.boards.net/thread/2098/newest-gamecocks-2016-edition

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22175&stc=1

Try 9 out of 20 scholarship players were transfers to me. You are in way over your head if you think you can challenge me. You are a little bitch, you aren't on my level.

[BisonFan02]

Try 9 out of 20 scholarship players were transfers to me. You are in way over your head if you think you can challenge me. You are a little bitch, you aren't on my level.

Ladies and Gentlemen....it is officially the offseason! xlolx

[JSUSoutherner]

Try 9 out of 20 scholarship players were transfers to me. You are in way over your head if you think you can challenge me. You are a little bitch, you aren't on my level.
It must be hard having a four game losing streak against an OVC team. xcoffeex

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CVfqDRvVEAAVtbB.mp4

I think you're just jealous. xnodx

Oh, who am I kidding? Everyone knows that teams that lose to Mercer are hot ****. :D

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Try 9 out of 20 scholarship players were transfers to me. You are in way over your head if you think you can challenge me. You are a little bitch, you aren't on my level.



....and that level is what?

xeyebrowx

[BisonFan02]

....and that level is what?

xeyebrowx

His level.....no one is on it. xlolx

[kdinva]

Grass not interested in recruiting at all. Transfer...transfer....transfer.....

what's a transfer?

[Bisonator]

Try 9 out of 20 scholarship players were transfers to me. You are in way over your head if you think you can challenge me. You are a little bitch, you aren't on my level.

No doubt. No one with any sense can get that far below the **** tank.xlolx

[Grizalltheway]

Don't know if this has been posted, but this list claims that Montana's OL class edged out NDSU's for the best in FCS. Will be interesting to see how that pans out.

http://herosports.com/news/ranking-the-top-30-recruiting-classes-in-the-fcs#1

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Don't know if this has been posted, but this list claims that Montana's OL class edged out NDSU's for the best in FCS. Will be interesting to see how that pans out.

http://herosports.com/news/ranking-the-top-30-recruiting-classes-in-the-fcs#1

Not to say that it may not be true, but I doubt they gave NDSU a lot of credit for the 9-man small school lineman they brought in. I think it was three off of the top of my head.

[Bisonator]

Don't know if this has been posted, but this list claims that Montana's OL class edged out NDSU's for the best in FCS. Will be interesting to see how that pans out.

http://herosports.com/news/ranking-the-top-30-recruiting-classes-in-the-fcs#1

I noticed non of them are from Montana. Down year out there for olinemen? And only 6 total in state kids? Is that about average?

[Grizalltheway]

I noticed non of them are from Montana. Down year out there for olinemen? And only 6 total in state kids? Is that about average?

I realize your post isn't intended as smack, but it's not like NDSU's success has been built on in-state recruits, either. Just hard to field a nationally competitive team at the D-I level by drawing mostly from a population of a million or less.

[Bisonator]

I realize your post isn't intended as smack, but it's not like NDSU's success has been built on in-state recruits, either. Just hard to field a nationally competitive team at the D-I level by drawing mostly from a population of a million or less.

No but I was under the impression Montana got more than that usually. They've always seemed to have more then NDSU has ND kids. Was just curious if it was a down year for HS kids or not out there.

[LeadBolt]

Once again W&M is well down the list of recruiting classes, doesn't take many transfers and will end up playing walk ons. No way to compete with the top 50 recruiting classes, again...

[Grizalltheway]

No but I was under the impression Montana got more than that usually. They've always seemed to have more then NDSU has ND kids. Was just curious if it was a down year for HS kids or not out there.

I honestly don't follow recruiting that closely, but that could definitely be the case.