NDSU: Time for FBS?

[SUUTbird]

First of all I want to say congrats to the Bison for winning 5 in a row! Very impressive game to watch as you guys dominated JSU, and that got me thinking. Being the team to beat in the FCS for the last couple of seasons and what with the impending expansion talks taking place this January 13th (NCAA is meeting with the conferences to decide if the Big 12 needs a Conference Championship or not) and the potential domino effect that could take place do you guys think it is time for NDSU to consider the FBS?

Now I am not considering that NDSU goes to the Big12, more I am looking at the Mountain West (who talked about expanding earlier this year), the MAC, the American ect. as potential landing spots for the Bison if they decided to go. Also i know this is another "lets move to FBS thread" but now that we officially have several months before College Football returns I figured id be the first to get it out of the way.

[Bisonoline]

Until there is a conference invitation NDSU cant do anything. MWC? Dont care for it as its out of our geographical footprint. We are only really suited for the B10 and the B12. Dont see an invite coming from either.

[DFW HOYA]

We are only really suited for the B10 and the B12. Dont see an invite coming from either.

Given that NDSU plays in a stadium whose capacity is not much larger than the basketball arena at the University of Texas, that isn't happening.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Until there is a conference invitation NDSU cant do anything. MWC? Dont care for it as its out of our geographical footprint. We are only really suited for the B10 and the B12. Dont see an invite coming from either.


When I win the lottery, NDSU is going FBS independent!!!

:D

[Professor Chaos]

Competitively, I think it's obvious NDSU belongs in the FBS. However, these decisions are almost always made with $$$$ instead of competitiveness in mind and the fact remains that there are many other factors going against NDSU. These start with having no geographic fit for any current FBS conference, an unattractive TV market, and a small venue by FBS standards (with no new venue in sight).

The best bet IMO is to wait for the inevitable P5 split (at least in football) and align with the G5 conferences as part of a new conference with the regional FCS teams that would have funding to compete at that level such as SDSU, UNI, Montana, Montana St, and maybe even UND and USD.

[walliver]

FBS is not fair. There should be little doubt that NDSU would be more successful at FBS level than CCU, at least in the short term. NDSU would immediately compete for football championships in the MAC, Sun Belt, MWC, CUSA, and possibly even AAC. But, geography is not kind to North Dakota.

Economically, a move at this time probably makes no sense. Currently NDSU is routinely selling out an non-expandable venue. There is no opportunity to sell more tickets. The only revenue increase possible is to jack up ticket prices. TV revenue at the G5 level is poor. Community support is already high, so there is not a lot of upside there. The only other source of revenue is to get paid more for P5 "money games", but one of the unwritten rules for those games is that you are expected to lose most of those - win too may and the invitations stop.

Are NDSU fans willing to pay twice as much for a game ticket to watch Kent State or Nevada instead of UNI or SDSU?

[JSUSoutherner]

NDSU isn't going FBS until they get a bigger stadium.

[Sycamore62]

NDSU is barely in the footprint of the continental United States

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Tell me, what is the benefit? We are still a school of less than 15k in the middle of nowhere.

What about us, besides our football success, says FBS? We get no advantages over the other teams in FCS, we're all playing by the same rules.

It's up to FCS to get better.

[IBleedYellow]

Ya'll better start getting better, we aren't going anywhere.

[BisonFan02]

xdeadhorsex

We can keep flogging this horse....doesn't change the fact that there is NO FBS option for NDSU that fits geographically...nor do we add some illusive "media market" like a Georgia St... No one is calling.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There needs to be an overhaul as to how schools get to be FBS or FCS. The rules requiring conference membership in an existing FBS conference are archaic and only serve to create zombie conferences like the Sun Belt that nobody really wants to be in. Ideally there would be a process for schools and conferences to join FBS as a unit, and also, perhaps, drop down as a unit if they're not successful.

[Mattymc727]

Tell me, what is the benefit? We are still a school of less than 15k in the middle of nowhere.

What about us, besides our football success, says FBS? We get no advantages over the other teams in FCS, we're all playing by the same rules.

It's up to FCS to get better.

You are mostly right, but even with that, NDSU still is top 5 in resources in FCS. Sure NDSU doesnt have a 30k seat stadium, but everything else is there. Meanwhile schools like UNH and other state schools have pretty much maxed out their success. It took UNH 10 years of playoff football just to upgrade to a 13k stadium with a track around it. There is no way other FCS schools could match what NDSU has.

[BisonFan02]

You are mostly right, but even with that, NDSU still is top 5 in resources in FCS. Sure NDSU doesnt have a 30k seat stadium, but everything else is there. Meanwhile schools like UNH and other state schools have pretty much maxed out their success. It took UNH 10 years of playoff football just to upgrade to a 13k stadium with a track around it. There is no way other FCS schools could match what NDSU has.

Source?

[centennial]

You are mostly right, but even with that, NDSU still is top 5 in resources in FCS. Sure NDSU doesnt have a 30k seat stadium, but everything else is there. Meanwhile schools like UNH and other state schools have pretty much maxed out their success. It took UNH 10 years of playoff football just to upgrade to a 13k stadium with a track around it. There is no way other FCS schools could match what NDSU has.
We have a plan to add 7500 more seats to the Fargodome but it is probably too expensive. There are plenty of rich schools in the FCS, committed or not is the question. NDSU is probably among the most committed to football.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You are mostly right, but even with that, NDSU still is top 5 in resources in FCS. Sure NDSU doesnt have a 30k seat stadium, but everything else is there. Meanwhile schools like UNH and other state schools have pretty much maxed out their success. It took UNH 10 years of playoff football just to upgrade to a 13k stadium with a track around it. There is no way other FCS schools could match what NDSU has.

There are close to 30 schools in FCS with larger stadium capacity, including Montana, JSU, Delaware, and Eastern Kentucky

NDSU simply has engagement, will, tradition, and high expectations.

Anyone can do that with the right people in place. We have done it with dozens of different people in various places.

[Hammerhead]

Even if NDSU could move "up" to the MAC or WAC, I'm not sure that would be any better. Having a good chance of some extra home games in the playoffs most years and is more attractive than a bowl game in Detroit or Boise even if the bowl game does get more national exposure than the championship game in Frisco.

[BisonFan02]

We have a plan to add 7500 more seats to the Fargodome but it is probably too expensive. There are plenty of rich schools in the FCS, committed or not is the question. NDSU is probably among the most committed to football.

........................source? xlolx

http://www.inforum.com/news/3661180-fargodome-committee-reviews-seven-expansion-options-ranging-87000-215-million

[Sycamore62]

Even if NDSU could move "up" to the MAC or WAC, I'm not sure that would be any better. Having a good chance of some extra home games in the playoffs most years and is more attractive than a bowl game in Detroit or Boise even if the bowl game does get more national exposure than the championship game in Frisco.

if they were trying for more national exposure as an advertisement for the school (which is a reason some schools lose money for their program) then one of those conferences could offer the opportunity for more exposure. I realize they had gameday there 2 times but the best case scenario for an FCS school is an unexpected upset of a ranked P5 team and going undefeated to the finals gets you on ESPN2.

Best case scenario for MAC or MWC teams is a BCS bowl game which is way more exposure.

[jsualumnus]

Tell me, what is the benefit? We are still a school of less than 15k in the middle of nowhere.

What about us, besides our football success, says FBS? We get no advantages over the other teams in FCS, we're all playing by the same rules.

It's up to FCS to get better.

There it is... ^^^ THIS ^^^

[Professor Chaos]

if they were trying for more national exposure as an advertisement for the school (which is a reason some schools lose money for their program) then one of those conferences could offer the opportunity for more exposure. I realize they had gameday there 2 times but the best case scenario for an FCS school is an unexpected upset of a ranked P5 team and going undefeated to the finals gets you on ESPN2.

Best case scenario for MAC or MWC teams is a BCS bowl game which is way more exposure.
NDSU was on ESPN twice last year (both on Saturday) and ESPN2 twice (once Friday night and once Saturday). You may beat the number of ESPN appearances in the MAC but the majority will be on Tuesday and Wednesday nights.

[deez_na]

When I win the lottery, NDSU is going FBS independent!!!

:D

I was hoping i was going to be the one winning the lottery helping out NDSU. Damnit!!! :D

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Wrestling already competes in the B12. Anything less than the B10 or B12 doesn't make sense. But neither conference will want us. I just don't think NDSU fans would rather play crappy MAC schools than traditional rivals like UNI, SDSU, USD, and the F'Hawks. We simply outpaced the schools we compete with.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

xdeadhorsex

We can keep flogging this horse....doesn't change the fact that there is NO FBS option for NDSU that fits geographically...nor do we add some illusive "media market" like a Georgia St... No one is calling.

If NDSU said they were interested in the Sun Belt, I feel sure the league would make any concessions to get you in, including paying exit fees, letting you keep your other sports in the Horizon, and letting you have a say over which teams you want to get on the schedule.

I realize the mere mention of the Sun Belt on this board triggers feelings of revulsion, but those are more visceral than cerebral. Football-wise there's no real difference between the MAC, CUSA, and SBC anymore. The SBC finished above the CUSA in the RPI and Georgia Southern and App State went 3-0 against 3 of the best teams in the MAC.

People laugh because of how the SBC takes on warm bodies, but any objective person has to admit that with a football nucleus consisting of Georgia Southern, NDSU, App State, Arkansas State, and Troy it doesn't really matter who is in the cellar.

[Yote 53]

Outpaced for now. It was a few short years ago I was reading threads how there were empty seats in the FFD. How the students wouldn't show up to games. Everything is cyclical and NDSU won't win it every year.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Let's take the SBC for example. This year I attended 8 NDSU games despite living in Kansas. I went to Montana, SDSU, SIU, as well as going back to Fargo 4 times and Frisco once. Now that's a lot of miles. GSU this year had road games at Idaho, Monroe, App State, Troy, as well as two P5 schools.

We have a guy who hasn't missed a NDSU football game in 30 years. He would have to at least quadruple his travel budget if NDSU joined the SBC.

That sounds like a terrible idea.

[Bisonator]

You are mostly right, but even with that, NDSU still is top 5 in resources in FCS. Sure NDSU doesnt have a 30k seat stadium, but everything else is there. Meanwhile schools like UNH and other state schools have pretty much maxed out their success. It took UNH 10 years of playoff football just to upgrade to a 13k stadium with a track around it. There is no way other FCS schools could match what NDSU has.
It's all about priorities. How much does UNH spend on hockey? That is one of the most expensive sports to offer and it's an anchor on a school at this level. But if your administration thinks it's better to spend money there as opposed to FB so be it.

[THE HERD]

NDSU wants to be in that second tier of football whatever it may be and I think they are positioning themselves to do so once the P5 breaks away. One of the obvious things that points to that is the Cost of Attendence deal. To be in that second tier with the MWC, MAC, Sunbelt teams would be some good football in my opinion....as long as they implement a playoff system. In my opinion though it is really too bad that the state of ND doesn't get behind NDSU and help fund a larger stadium etc......with the wave of success that we are riding the sky could be the limit. The Big 10 or 12 would actually be a possibility if the state would get behind NDSU with some real dollars, but they won't, because they are small thinkers and have the mentality of oh we can't do that, we are just little ole ND. Plus ND has a fricking little piss ant college in every damn town in the state to fund.....some of those need to be axed and the money funneled to the two DI schools in the state. I am sure there will be some on here that will say we couldn't fill a 35-40K seat stadium.....well if you have teams like Oklahoma, Texas, etc coming to town there would be a lot more people coming in from MN, SD, ND to see those types of games. Again I know it will never happen, because ND as a state is too cheap to do it........but we do have the money to do it. Our foot is in the door with the wrestling team competeing in the Big 12 already.......all it would take is what it always takes......a butt load of cash!

[BisonBacker]

Would be nice to have the support of the State legislature but that's a freaking pipedream.

[BisonFan02]

If NDSU said they were interested in the Sun Belt, I feel sure the league would make any concessions to get you in, including paying exit fees, letting you keep your other sports in the Horizon, and letting you have a say over which teams you want to get on the schedule.

I realize the mere mention of the Sun Belt on this board triggers feelings of revulsion, but those are more visceral than cerebral. Football-wise there's no real difference between the MAC, CUSA, and SBC anymore. The SBC finished above the CUSA in the RPI and Georgia Southern and App State went 3-0 against 3 of the best teams in the MAC.

People laugh because of how the SBC takes on warm bodies, but any objective person has to admit that with a football nucleus consisting of Georgia Southern, NDSU, App State, Arkansas State, and Troy it doesn't really matter who is in the cellar.

Summit, not Horizon...and you can add the MVFC as not having any difference with the MAC, CUSA, and SBC anymore. The ROI for a FBS move to the SBC is just about zero....and it doesn't set up any other potential move...which I thought is one of the many reasons Liberty is getting the snub?

Also, doesn't matter who is in the cellar? Georgia Southern and App State are nice.....but would I trade UNI and SDSU for it? Nope....

[Twentysix]

Unless NDSU moves to the Big Ten, Big XII, or MWC (none of which will happen), I wouldn't move without SDSU. I would go to the MAC or SBC if SDSU and UNI came with.

[BisonBacker]

Unless NDSU moves to the Big Ten, Big XII, or MWC (none of which will happen), I wouldn't move without SDSU. I would go to the MAC or SBC if SDSU and UNI came with.

The Sun Belt has absolutely zero zip nada interest. Horrible Horrible fit geographically and from a team interest perspective outside of G. Southern and Appy I couldn't care less about that conference. It's the slum of the FBS and that's being generous.

[FargoBison]

A 20k seat dome with more suites/club seating would work in the MAC or MWC(which would happen if the dome is expanded). Problem still though in regards to the whole invite situation.

I don't think NDSU fits at all in the SBC. The SBC needs fewer geographic misfits, not more.

[1984]

Would be nice to have the support of the State legislature but that's a freaking pipedream.
True. NDSU has always received significantly less funding from the legislature than UND even with the schools being about the same size. Why is this? Not sure but the law school is at UND so most elected officials attended UND. The state did not build the Fargo Dome and are not likely to fund an new stadium or expansion of the Fargo Dome. While NDSU is at the top of FCS football it is doubt full it will last forever. That said NDSU has always been a football school and Fargo a football town. But its size and location make it very unlikely it would move to FBS EVER. It is playing at the level it should be, well for at least the next 100 years.

[JSUSoutherner]

A 20k seat dome with more suites/club seating would work in the MAC or MWC(which would happen if the dome is expanded). Problem still though in regards to the whole invite situation.

I don't think NDSU fits at all in the SBC. The SBC needs fewer geographic misfits, not more.
SBC admissions test:

Question 1: Has sunlight ever touched your University?

If yes, congratulations! You're accepted!

If no, sorry. Go mull over the sad fact you suck too much for the SBC.

[BisonFan02]

SBC admissions test:

Question 1: Has sunlight ever touched your University?

If yes, congratulations! You're accepted!

If no, sorry. Go mull over the sad fact you suck too much for the SBC.

.....like...you guys? JSU sure fits...what's your excuse?

[centennial]

SBC for NDSU- bad geography, no increase in competition, no real rivalries, academic mismatch.
Unless the WAC wants to come back, and the NCAA allows it, we are stuck.

[tomq04]

Ideally there would be a process for schools and conferences to join FBS as a unit, and also, perhaps, drop down as a unit if they're not successful.


This, they should start the convergence of Division 1 football, reevaluation every couple of years. In terms of the pac-12 WSU should have been thrown out a 10 years ago, and now that they are clicking they should be moving back in, same can be said of Oregon State now that they are somewhat collapsing after some years of success. EWU/Mont should have had a season to play mixed schedules with their closest geographic schools.

I'm not sure if there is a perfect way to do this, but there has got to be a better system.

[MarkyMark]

Gene Taylor (former AD) said NDSU would only consider an FBS conference option that involved a move for all sports. If the MWC came calling I'm sure NDSU would find the money to make it work.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I propose a new Forum.

NDSU to FBS - only open from the second week in January until August.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

NDSU is barely in the footprint of the continental United States

I don't believe Fargo is that geographically isolated given it's proximity to Minneapolis. It's also not a bad drive from Fargo to Omaha, NE. There's enough people that have access to Fargo to support a FBS program with a 40-50k seat stadium.

People tend use geography as knock against Boise. If you've ever been there you'd realize it's a legit city that is not that far from SLC. There's a reason Boise has hosted NCAA tournament games since the 80's. It does limit Boise too some extent but I think academic reputation remains the biggest hurdle.

[IBleedYellow]

I can't wait for my school to go join one of these conferences.

Fail (http://pilotonline.com/sports/college/old-dominion/basketball/sources-conference-usa-odu-will-see-vastly-reduced-tv-revenue/article_f89181d1-f34f-58fc-9e73-53809bbbcc60.html)

Seriously. The Sun Belt gives them 100k a year only? That doesn't help squat when it comes to expenses.

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[dgtw]

I was a bit surprised to see NDSU sponsors baseball.


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[IBleedYellow]

I was a bit surprised to see NDSU sponsors baseball.


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Our Softball is actually very good. Been to the NCAA's multiple times since the DI transition.

[centennial]

I was a bit surprised to see NDSU sponsors baseball.


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We also went to the NCAA regionals a couple of years ago. Lost to Oregon 1-2.

[BisonFan02]

I was a bit surprised to see NDSU sponsors baseball.


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https://www.concordiacollege.edu/files/virtual-tour/fargo-moorhead-redhawks.jpg



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http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/48661544.jpg

[UNIFanSince1983]

I don't believe Fargo is that geographically isolated given it's proximity to Minneapolis. It's also not a bad drive from Fargo to Omaha, NE. There's enough people that have access to Fargo to support a FBS program with a 40-50k seat stadium.

People tend use geography as knock against Boise. If you've ever been there you'd realize it's a legit city that is not that far from SLC. There's a reason Boise has hosted NCAA tournament games since the 80's. It does limit Boise too some extent but I think academic reputation remains the biggest hurdle.

What is your definition of "not a bad drive"?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What is your definition of "not a bad drive"?

Less than 8 hours. Having lived in Montana and spent time in the Plains I know how easy it is to drive out there so long as the weather cooperates. I met a few MSU fans when I lived in Bozeman who would drive 5-7 hours one way 6-7 times a year for a game. That's intense....

I went to the Eagles-Lions game in Detroit on Turkey Day this year. I left my seat with 7 minutes left in the 4th, went to the team shop to buy a couple things and left. I was out of the parking lot by 3:50'ish and home in Northeastern PA, 512 miles away, by 12:30 am. That drive was cake. I did get a hotel outside of Toledo the night before.

I drove to JMU this year for a Lehigh game and to Greenville, NC for Temple-ECU. Neither one were exhausting road trips. ECU did suck a little because I hit Baltimore/DC around rush hour.

[Evolution Prime]

What is your definition of "not a bad drive"?

Anything that is not driving across Nebraska or Kansas.

[centennial]

Anything that is not driving across Nebraska or Kansas.
I HATE driving across Kansas. 2-4 lane highways in the middle of no where.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I HATE driving across Kansas. 2-4 lane highways in the middle of no where.

Fargo being located at the meeting of I29 and I94 is a great asset! Hector's a reasonable airport too.

One of the smartest things the state of North Dakota ever did was not build either major public university in Bismarck. Fargo is a great small city and Grand Forks proximity to Fargo, Winnipeg and Minneapolis makes it more appealing than Bismarck imo.

People might be surprised to find out where Penn State is located. It's in the middle of no where relative to just about every state flagship university in the country. Most of Pennsylvania's population is located 3-4 hours away from State College.

[Christiank22]

Fargo being located at the meeting of I29 and I94 is a great asset! Hector's a reasonable airport too.

One of the smartest things the state of North Dakota ever did was not build either major public university in Bismarck. Fargo is a great small city and Grand Forks proximity to Fargo, Winnipeg and Minneapolis makes it more appealing than Bismarck imo.

People might be surprised to find out where Penn State is located. It's in the middle of no where relative to just about every state flagship university in the country. Most of Pennsylvania's population is located 3-4 hours away from State College.
I would prefer Bismarck but that's just because it's a 5hr drive to Fargo for school from my hometown lol

[TheRevSFA]

Why move up and not win NCs for a long time?

[Bisonator]

Aside from a B1G or B12 invite which isn't going to happen, I'd only back an FBS move if the legislation was changed to allow schools to form new conferences. There is no current FBS conference outside of the B1G or B12 that would make sense. A new northern FBS conference is needed and I wouldn't be shocked if it happens in the next 10 years.

[Bisonoline]

NDSU isn't going FBS until they get a bigger stadium.

Stadium isnt the hang up. Do some research.

[JSUSoutherner]

.....like...you guys? JSU sure fits...what's your excuse?
Troy is a bunch of pansies.



Stadium isnt the hang up. Do some research.
The fourth smallest venue in FBS definitely wouldn't win you many points with conferences that would consider you. Especially considering the Bison can do so much better.

[Bisonoline]

Troy is a bunch of pansies.



The fourth smallest venue in FBS definitely wouldn't win you many points with conferences that would consider you. Especially considering the Bison can do so much better.

You dont know what you are talking about. You have no idea what the conferences would think.

[JSUSoutherner]

You dont know what you are talking about.
What ever helps you sleep at night. Don't see why your so uptight about it, I'm not the only one that's said it and NDSU isn't moving anyway.

[Bisonoline]

What ever helps you sleep at night. Don't see why your so uptight about it, I'm not the only one that's said it and NDSU isn't moving anyway.

Its actually what makes you sleep at night. The subject of NDSU moving up has been talked about for some time. All the requirements have been talked about and dissected. You add nothing. Your just talking out of your azz as usual. Its your MO. You just dont know when to STFU. But please continue----and enlighten us with your ignorance on the subject.

[FargoBison]

Troy is a bunch of pansies.



The fourth smallest venue in FBS definitely wouldn't win you many points with conferences that would consider you. Especially considering the Bison can do so much better.

In the MAC or SBC, the size of the dome would be zero issue at all. Especially if the plans to add 1k seats and some other amenities come to fruition.

To be honest the MAC would love the dome, it is great for TV. Their problem has mostly to do with the geographic location of said dome.

[JSUSoutherner]

In the MAC or SBC, the size of the dome would be zero issue at all. Especially if the plans to add 1k seats and some other amenities come to fruition.

To be honest the MAC would love the dome, it is great for TV. Their problem has mostly to do with the geographic location of said dome.
But like I said, the Bison can do better. Why move to the G5? There's nothing to gain as others have mentioned other than it would cost more. With a bigger venue you guys could get a possible look from the B12 especially in the event the conference expands to be divisional because unlike most teams that go into the FBS you guys could pack out a bigger venue regularly. The increased revenue from a larger crowd combined with the enhanced exposure that would come with a B12 offer and NDSU has them self a reason to move. Neither of those things come for the G5. Either way, it's all far out ideas that are unlikely to ever happen. But it's also the reason JSU has come out against moving to the FBS. There currently isn't anything in it for us to join the Mighty G5.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Personally i think that even if it does get to the point of making slightly more sense that regional powers will try to block it. We are already winning the occasional recruiting battle with some of the big boys. Last thing Minnesota or Iowa State would want is to have to refer to us as equals.

[FargoBison]

But like I said, the Bison can do better. Why move to the G5? There's nothing to gain as others have mentioned other than it would cost more. With a bigger venue you guys could get a possible look from the B12 especially in the event the conference expands to be divisional because unlike most teams that go into the FBS you guys could pack out a bigger venue regularly. The increased revenue from a larger crowd combined with the enhanced exposure that would come with a B12 offer and NDSU has them self a reason to move. Neither of those things come for the G5. Either way, it's all far out ideas that are unlikely to ever happen. But it's also the reason JSU has come out against moving to the FBS. There currently isn't anything in it for us to join the Mighty G5.

You don't go from the FCS to something like the Big 12 or even the MWC for that matter. It is a process and you gotta work your way up that ladder.

I am all for NDSU going FBS but it isn't going to happen, there is nowhere for NDSU to go. I think there is plenty to gain but again no place to go so I am not sure why I am even getting myself into this debate.

[Bisonoline]

But like I said, the Bison can do better. Why move to the G5? There's nothing to gain as others have mentioned other than it would cost more. With a bigger venue you guys could get a possible look from the B12 especially in the event the conference expands to be divisional because unlike most teams that go into the FBS you guys could pack out a bigger venue regularly. The increased revenue from a larger crowd combined with the enhanced exposure that would come with a B12 offer and NDSU has them self a reason to move. Neither of those things come for the G5. Either way, it's all far out ideas that are unlikely to ever happen. But it's also the reason JSU has come out against moving to the FBS. There currently isn't anything in it for us to join the Mighty G5.

You just dont get it. Moving to the B12 of B10 has more to do with geographical footprint-TV viewers $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and what does your SCHOOL bring to the table as far as endowments , research, synergisms , law and medical schools etc etc than how good you football team is doing or how big your stadium is.
As I said some research. Find out why the Big10 really wanted Penn State in the Big10. What was the deal breaker? Nebraska? Why did Nebraska want to join the big 10? They were making more money in the B12.

[JSUSoutherner]

You just dont get it. Moving to the B12 of B10 has more to do with geographical footprint-TV viewers $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and what does your SCHOOL bring to the table as far as endowments , research, synergisms , law and medical schools etc etc than how good you football team is doing or how big your stadium is.
As I said some research. Find out why the Big10 really wanted Penn State in the Big10. What was the deal breaker? Nebraska? Why did Nebraska want to join the big 10? They were making more money in the B12.
I never said those were the only reasons. You guys are already in the B12 in case you didn't know. You guys are a land-grant flagship school. Who said you had to go full out B12? Hell, some schools don't even need a conference to be FBS. You can even move to FBS just for football as with U-Mass. There's all sorts of things that can happen. This whole thread is hypothetical, that means you don't have to be a douche every time someone lets out a hypothetical opinion.

[Bisonoline]

I never said those were the only reasons. You guys are already in the B12 in case you didn't know. You guys are a land-grant flagship school. Who said you had to go full out B12? Hell, some schools don't even need a conference to be FBS. You can even move to FBS just for football as with U-Mass. There's all sorts of things that can happen. This whole thread is hypothetical, that means you don't have to be a douche every time someone lets out a hypothetical opinion.

Its not every time someone lets out a hypothetical opinion. You came out with the small stadium BS which couldnt be farther from the truth. It then evolved. Which I should just realize its you flapping your yap and nobody is going to out talk you whether you know what you are talking about or not. You just cant help yourself.
As posted before----xblahxxblahxxblahx

[JSUSoutherner]

Its not every time someone lets out a hypothetical opinion. You came out with the small stadium BS which couldnt be farther from the truth. It then evolved. Which I should just realize its you flapping your yap and nobody is going to out talk you whether you know what you are talking about or not. You just cant help yourself.
I guess that's why 8 other posts in this thread mention the dome. 6 of those posts from Bison fans. It only "evolved" because I further explained to you my thoughts more in depth after you took one nine word post and tried to pass it off as my whole opinion.

And what hat the hell did it matter? I wasn't the only one that said it, I wasn't even the first to bring it up. It wasn't doing anyone harm. You could have left it there, let it stay buried, and the world would have kept on turning. But no, you had to go, bring it up, and be a douche about it.

[Bisonoline]

I guess that's why 8 other posts in this thread mention the dome. 6 of those posts from Bison fans. It only "evolved" because I further explained to you my thoughts more in depth after you took one nine word post and tried to pass it off as my whole opinion.

And what hat the hell did it matter? I wasn't the only one that said it, I wasn't even the first to bring it up. It wasn't doing anyone harm. You could have left it there, let it stay buried, and the world would have kept on turning. But no, you had to go, bring it up, and be a douche about it.


xblahxxblahxxthumbsupx

[dgtw]

The Big XII isn't going to take NDSU any more than the SEC would take Jax State.

I think the Bisons would do well in FBS but they are too far removed from any leagues that would consider them and are not in a big media market. Sucks for them they are out but Georgia State is in but that's the reality of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Professor Chaos]

Sucks for them they are out but Georgia State is in but that's the reality of it.
Not from my point of view. I'll take what we have at the FCS level every day and twice on fall Saturdays over what Georgia St has at the FBS level.

Some, including other Bison fans, will call me small-time but I'd much rather watch my team compete in a minor league tournament for a minor league national championship than I would watch them compete in a minor league bowl for one of the 30+ mythical championships they hand out in those bowls.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Not from my point of view. I'll take what we have at the FCS level every day and twice on fall Saturdays over what Georgia St has at the FBS level.

Some, including other Bison fans, will call me small-time but I'd much rather watch my team compete in a minor league tournament for a minor league national championship than I would watch them compete in a minor league bowl for one of the 30+ mythical championships they hand out in those bowls.


While I tend to agree with this mostly, I think NDSU could be a fine FBS program. It doesn't need to be a 100 million+ athletic budget school like TX or spend 40 million just on football like Alabama. NDSU could carve out a nice "niche" at the FBS level. With 22 more full rides in football, NDSU could be a very good FBS program IMO.

[JSUSoutherner]

While I tend to agree with this mostly, I think NDSU could be a fine FBS program. It doesn't need to be a 100 million+ athletic budget school like TX or spend 40 million just on football like Alabama. NDSU could carve out a nice "niche" at the FBS level. With 22 more full rides in football, NDSU could be a very good FBS program IMO.
Serious question though: If NDSU did go to FBS do you think it would affect the recruiting there? NDSU would be the "new kid on the block" in a sense and at that point you don't have the "we're an FCS phenom and we play for a NC every year" line to sell to your recruits. What's to stop the quality players from now picking Nebraska, Iowa State, or another more established FBS school over NDSU since they would be on a "more level playing field"?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Serious question though: If NDSU did go to FBS do you think it would affect the recruiting there? NDSU would be the "new kid on the block" in a sense and at that point you don't have the "we're an FCS phenom and we play for a NC every year" line to sell to your recruits. What's to stop the quality players from now picking Nebraska, Iowa State, or another more established FBS school over NDSU since they would be on a "more level playing field"?


FBS offers "full rides" for all schollies. FCS can break them up.

If the Bison kept their same offensive/defensive philosophies, I think they would be a competitive FBS program. Kids that they would lose to Minnesota/Iowa/Nebraska might come to NDSU with a full ride. Recruiting would basically stay the same with recruiting very good OL/DL and going out of the region for skill players or some of them.

Kids go to schools for all kinds of reasons. Maybe they want to play right away instead of sitting on the bench for 2-3 years. Be part of a winner.

Look what Harbaugh is doing at Michigan. Back to a pro set with down hill running game and play action pass. Old school football again at Michigan. I'm not saying NDSU is a Michigan but that style of football can be very successful at the FBS level. Another example is Alabama. 2 back sets and old school down hill running and smothering defense. In the era of all of these spread/read options systems, I love the fact that the 2 national champions in the biggest classes of college football run traditional offenses and play outstanding defense.

[IBleedYellow]

Alright, since all of you people keep personally attacking each other, instead of stating facts, here we go:

FBS Requirements

FBS schools must have an average home attendance of at least 15,000 (over a rolling two-year period) - Check Fargodome DOESN'T MATTER NOW. Yes, having a bigger stadium allows more revenue to be made with greater ticket sales, but NDSU can currently going into the FBS with the Fargodome.

An FBS school must sponsor a minimum of sixteen varsity intercollegiate teams, with at least eight all-female teams. - Negative NDSU Currently sponsors 7 women's and 7 men's sports.

Across all sports, each FBS school must offer at least 200 athletic scholarships (or spend at least $4 million on athletic scholarships) per year, and FBS football teams must provide at least 90% of the maximum number of football scholarships (which is currently 85) - Negative HOWEVER NDSU could get here quite easily just by going FBS.

FBS Requirements (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/AMA/Division%20I%20Forms/2010-11%20FBS%20Forms/Football%20Bowl%20Subqa%2012%208%2010.pdf)

So yes, NDSU could go FBS, but they NEED AN INVITE!! So all of you can't just boot NDSU out of the FCS. So sorry guys, you're stuck with us until someone asks for us to come up.

[UNIFanSince1983]

FBS offers "full rides" for all schollies. FCS can break them up.

If the Bison kept their same offensive/defensive philosophies, I think they would be a competitive FBS program. Kids that they would lose to Minnesota/Iowa/Nebraska might come to NDSU with a full ride. Recruiting would basically stay the same with recruiting very good OL/DL and going out of the region for skill players or some of them.

Kids go to schools for all kinds of reasons. Maybe they want to play right away instead of sitting on the bench for 2-3 years. Be part of a winner.

Look what Harbaugh is doing at Michigan. Back to a pro set with down hill running game and play action pass. Old school football again at Michigan. I'm not saying NDSU is a Michigan but that style of football can be very successful at the FBS level. Another example is Alabama. 2 back sets and old school down hill running and smothering defense. In the era of all of these spread/read options systems, I love the fact that the 2 national champions in the biggest classes of college football run traditional offenses and play outstanding defense.

But do some of the kids NDSU currently gets go there for a chance to win a championship? Do some of these kids look for an FCS school like SDSU, USD, or UNI now that NDSU is FBS and they are no longer playing for a championship? I mean there are two ways to look at it. I do think NDSU would be successful because they would put everything behind the move if they were to do it. Just questions I guess.

[NDSUguy]

But do some of the kids NDSU currently gets go there for a chance to win a championship? Do some of these kids look for an FCS school like SDSU, USD, or UNI now that NDSU is FBS and they are no longer playing for a championship? I mean there are two ways to look at it. I do think NDSU would be successful because they would put everything behind the move if they were to do it. Just questions I guess.

It's all a pecking order. For many of the recruits P5 FBS>FBS>FCS NC>Good FCS>FCS. NDSU is currently behind the FBS but better than UNI/SDSU/Etc. If NDSU would move to the FBS they would likely sign more of the fringe FBS talent that they have lost in the past. They might also lose some of the athletes that want to play for a championship.

In the end i would guess that it would be a wash.

[JSUSoutherner]

They might also lose some of the athletes that want to play for a championship.
I guess they could always go play for UND. Apparently they are going to smash teams next year.

[Yote 53]

I remember a few years ago Bison fans were pissed about students not coming to the games and the FargoDome not being full. A move to FBS would mean suffering a few mediocre seasons through the transition with the end prize being a trip to some bowl in Detroit on a cold Tuesday night sometime before Christmas. The cries would once again go out about the inability to fill the FargoDome. Problem is, moving to the FBS would mean you would need a bigger venue than the FargoDome that you would need to fill. Money for a new stadium, money for the increase in scholarships, money for an FBS coaching staff, money for an increased travel budget...follow the money and it just doesn't add up. Besides, the most important thing you need is a conference to play in and there is none inside the geographic footprint for NDSU to join. NDSU is not moving to FBS without some outside assistance which would come in the form of the other Dakota schools and Montana schools looking to make the same move. They need neighbors who would be moving partners.

[JSUSoutherner]

I remember a few years ago Bison fans were pissed about students not coming to the games and the FargoDome not being full. A move to FBS would mean suffering a few mediocre seasons through the transition with the end prize being a trip to some bowl in Detroit on a cold Tuesday night sometime before Christmas. The cries would once again go out about the inability to fill the FargoDome. Problem is, moving to the FBS would mean you would need a bigger venue than the FargoDome that you would need to fill. Money for a new stadium, money for the increase in scholarships, money for an FBS coaching staff, money for an increased travel budget...follow the money and it just doesn't add up. Besides, the most important thing you need is a conference to play in and there is none inside the geographic footprint for NDSU to join. NDSU is not moving to FBS without some outside assistance which would come in the form of the other Dakota schools and Montana schools looking to make the same move. They need neighbors who would be moving partners.
Based on what I saw in Texas I don't think filling the dome is ever going to be an issue again. And I really don't see NDSU being mediocre in a G5. Although the toilet bowl part is probably true.
Just my thoughts.

[NDSU_grad]

Alright, since all of you people keep personally attacking each other, instead of stating facts, here we go:

FBS Requirements

FBS schools must have an average home attendance of at least 15,000 (over a rolling two-year period) - Check Fargodome DOESN'T MATTER NOW. Yes, having a bigger stadium allows more revenue to be made with greater ticket sales, but NDSU can currently going into the FBS with the Fargodome.

An FBS school must sponsor a minimum of sixteen varsity intercollegiate teams, with at least eight all-female teams. - Negative NDSU Currently sponsors 7 women's and 7 men's sports.

Across all sports, each FBS school must offer at least 200 athletic scholarships (or spend at least $4 million on athletic scholarships) per year, and FBS football teams must provide at least 90% of the maximum number of football scholarships (which is currently 85) - Negative HOWEVER NDSU could get here quite easily just by going FBS.

FBS Requirements (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/AMA/Division%20I%20Forms/2010-11%20FBS%20Forms/Football%20Bowl%20Subqa%2012%208%2010.pdf)

So yes, NDSU could go FBS, but they NEED AN INVITE!! So all of you can't just boot NDSU out of the FCS. So sorry guys, you're stuck with us until someone asks for us to come up.
I'm fairly confident indoor track and field and outdoor track and field count as two sports, so NDSU would be in compliance for that criterion.

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm fairly confident indoor track and field and outdoor track and field count as two sports, so NDSU would be in compliance for that criterion.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22113&stc=1

However, this is a Wikipedia article. And I'm a French model, Bonjour.

[NDSU_grad]

I remember a few years ago Bison fans were pissed about students not coming to the games and the FargoDome not being full. A move to FBS would mean suffering a few mediocre seasons through the transition with the end prize being a trip to some bowl in Detroit on a cold Tuesday night sometime before Christmas. The cries would once again go out about the inability to fill the FargoDome. Problem is, moving to the FBS would mean you would need a bigger venue than the FargoDome that you would need to fill. Money for a new stadium, money for the increase in scholarships, money for an FBS coaching staff, money for an increased travel budget...follow the money and it just doesn't add up. Besides, the most important thing you need is a conference to play in and there is none inside the geographic footprint for NDSU to join. NDSU is not moving to FBS without some outside assistance which would come in the form of the other Dakota schools and Montana schools looking to make the same move. They need neighbors who would be moving partners.
I'm not necessarily advocating for a move up, but we wouldn't need a bigger venue. The MAC averaged ~15,000 in attendance in 2014; NDSU has that beat handily. And there's bowl games in a lot of places other that Detroit. NDSU would still fill the dome and would travel well to most bowls. That being said, right now a move doesn't make sense.

[gumby013]

I'm not necessarily advocating for a move up, but we wouldn't need a bigger venue. The MAC averaged ~15,000 in attendance in 2014; NDSU has that beat handily. And there's bowl games in a lot of places other that Detroit. NDSU would still fill the dome and would travel well to most bowls. That being said, right now a move doesn't make sense.

Much of the MAC uses accounting games to lie about their attendance.

[Professor Chaos]

I remember a few years ago Bison fans were pissed about students not coming to the games and the FargoDome not being full. A move to FBS would mean suffering a few mediocre seasons through the transition with the end prize being a trip to some bowl in Detroit on a cold Tuesday night sometime before Christmas. The cries would once again go out about the inability to fill the FargoDome. Problem is, moving to the FBS would mean you would need a bigger venue than the FargoDome that you would need to fill. Money for a new stadium, money for the increase in scholarships, money for an FBS coaching staff, money for an increased travel budget...follow the money and it just doesn't add up. Besides, the most important thing you need is a conference to play in and there is none inside the geographic footprint for NDSU to join. NDSU is not moving to FBS without some outside assistance which would come in the form of the other Dakota schools and Montana schools looking to make the same move. They need neighbors who would be moving partners.
Even this year the students still didn't fill their whole section after homecoming (that first game being against your team). The difference is this year the school and the student government finally came to an agreement to sell unclaimed student seats to the general public. On top of that I doubt a few mediocre seasons would sway demand under what it takes to sell out the Fargodome. Personally I'd buy more season tickets if I could and there's plenty of people without them who want them. A decade of mediocrity and you'd probably be right.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Even this year the students still didn't fill their whole section after homecoming (that first game being against your team). The difference is this year the school and the student government finally came to an agreement to sell unclaimed student seats to the general public. On top of that I doubt a few mediocre seasons would sway demand under what it takes to sell out the Fargodome. Personally I'd buy more season tickets if I could and there's plenty of people without them who want them. A decade of mediocrity and you'd probably be right.


Isn't there something like over 1500 people with requests for over 4K season tickets on a waiting list?

[Professor Chaos]

Isn't there something like over 1500 people with requests for over 4K season tickets on a waiting list?
Yeah, I heard that the number of season tickets requests that couldn't be filled exceed 4K last year. I'm not sure how many group requests made up that 4K but 1500 sounds about right. I would guess there are others in my boat as well who would request additional season tickets if available (or who would buy them but didn't even request them because they knew they had no shot anyway).

The good thing about that demand is that unused season tickets don't go empty anymore like they used to as recently as 2011. I recall plenty of games back in 2010/2011 that were "sold out" yet primo seats along the sideline were unused because the holders of those tickets couldn't go and didn't put any effort into moving those tickets to someone else who could. Now they can make money off those tickets if they want to put in the effort or get rid of them for cost if they put in minimal effort.

[THE HERD]

Much of the MAC uses accounting games to lie about their attendance.

Biggest problem with going to the MAC is that they play most of thier games on Tuesdays don't they? That would suck for attendence amongst many other things. I would say its the MWC or bust. We just need the Power 5 to break away, so the rest can fall into place. The other option would be for the MVFC to move as a whole, or at least the better teams(NDSU, UNI, SDSU, SIU, YSU etc). I believe the NCAA does not allow whole conferences to move and even if they did all the teams would not have the financial means to do it.

[Professor Chaos]

Biggest problem with going to the MAC is that they play most of thier games on Tuesdays don't they? That would suck for attendence amongst many other things. I would say its the MWC or bust. We just need the Power 5 to break away, so the rest can fall into place. The other option would be for the MVFC to move as a whole, or at least the better teams(NDSU, UNI, SDSU, SIU, YSU etc). I believe the NCAA does not allow whole conferences to move and even if they did all the teams would not have the financial means to do it.
The MWC doesn't do much for me that the MAC doesn't. Maybe a slightly better fit but still a crappy one. I don't want to see NDSU make any move without at least one, preferably more, regional partners from the MVFC and/or Big Sky.

[THE HERD]

The MWC doesn't do much for me that the MAC doesn't. Maybe a slightly better fit but still a crappy one. I don't want to see NDSU make any move without at least one, preferably more, regional partners from the MVFC and/or Big Sky.

I agree.....what I hope would happen after the P5 move away is that the whole 2nd tier of football would kind of be revamped with the upper level of FCS joining the MAC, MWC etc teams into existing conferences and possibly some new ones. If this happens I just hope a playoff system, such as the FCS has now would be implemented. Maybe not 24 teams, but say maybe a 16 team tourny would be fun!

[BisonFan02]

Isn't there something like over 1500 people with requests for over 4K season tickets on a waiting list?

The # would be bigger if people thought they had a chance at getting them....probably not the true demand. I would like to add more to my group, but I'm already grandfathered in with my 9 as it is.

[steelbison]

I remember a few years ago Bison fans were pissed about students not coming to the games and the FargoDome not being full. A move to FBS would mean suffering a few mediocre seasons through the transition with the end prize being a trip to some bowl in Detroit on a cold Tuesday night sometime before Christmas. The cries would once again go out about the inability to fill the FargoDome. Problem is, moving to the FBS would mean you would need a bigger venue than the FargoDome that you would need to fill. Money for a new stadium, money for the increase in scholarships, money for an FBS coaching staff, money for an increased travel budget...follow the money and it just doesn't add up. Besides, the most important thing you need is a conference to play in and there is none inside the geographic footprint for NDSU to join. NDSU is not moving to FBS without some outside assistance which would come in the form of the other Dakota schools and Montana schools looking to make the same move. They need neighbors who would be moving partners.


You don't know what your talking about. Everything about Bison football is bigger and better. It started with tailgating and now its' the product on the field. Trust me, if we had a 30-35 seat stadium we could probably sell it out. There are MANY people that want tickets that can't get them. People love the EVENT NDSU football has become. There are a LOT of people that tailgate that don't go to the game because of the ticket situation.

Comparing the past to now is plain stupid and shows you don't know what the hell your talking about.


We need a new stadium I truly believe that. I wish NDSU was actually trying to put together a plan to make it happen. Where are the surveys to find out what the ticket demand really is. Where are the surveys to see how many seat licenses you could sell. How many suites you could sell. There are people with BIG money that can't even get tickets. They can get on a waiting list. Seriously. If I had a lot of money to give to NDSU right now I couldn't even get football tickets. Sad actually..

[thebootfitter]

I guess they could always go play for UND. Apparently they are going to smash teams next year.
I just saw some of them in the weight room, hitting it hard. They looked angry!

[JSUSoutherner]

They looked angry!
Maybe their moms forgot to put their raw egg shake in their lunchbox this morning?

[Yote 53]

The past is not so distant, like just a few years ago before your first title run. You guys were like 3-8 and ready to fire Bohl. All it takes for a return to those days is a change in coaches and a bad hire. If the NDSU program returns to earth and settles in with a few years of playoff losses, or even missing the playoffs, and the type of demand you are experiencing now continues, I would be inclined to agree that a larger stadium and move to FBS is warranted. You guys are high on the hog right now but the true test of whether you should make a move or not will come when you have to maintain this demand through some non-championship years, because that is what a move to the FBS will result in, no championships to play for, unfamiliar opponents, weeknight games, and trips to pre-Christmas bowls. It is a completely different dynamic than what your program is experiencing right now. Can the demand for season tickets be maintained through such changes? It didn't happen in the past during some lean years.

It is a moot point though as you first need a conference invite and there isn't a conference in the footprint that fits NDSU. Hence my take that NDSU would need moving partners within their footprint and probably a change in the current structure of college football.

[Professor Chaos]

The past is not so distant, like just a few years ago before your first title run. You guys were like 3-8 and ready to fire Bohl. All it takes for a return to those days is a change in coaches and a bad hire. If the NDSU program returns to earth and settles in with a few years of playoff losses, or even missing the playoffs, and the type of demand you are experiencing now continues, I would be inclined to agree that a larger stadium and move to FBS is warranted. You guys are high on the hog right now but the true test of whether you should make a move or not will come when you have to maintain this demand through some non-championship years, because that is what a move to the FBS will result in, no championships to play for, unfamiliar opponents, weeknight games, and trips to pre-Christmas bowls. It is a completely different dynamic than what your program is experiencing right now. Can the demand for season tickets be maintained through such changes? It didn't happen in the past during some lean years.

It is a moot point though as you first need a conference invite and there isn't a conference in the footprint that fits NDSU. Hence my take that NDSU would need moving partners within their footprint and probably a change in the current structure of college football.
NDSU averaged 16,515 in attendance during that 3-8 year in 2009 (link (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2009.pdf)) which is 88% capacity in the Fargodome, was good for 9th in the FCS, and was better than a bunch of MAC schools had that same year like Ball St, Bowling Green, EMU, Kent St, Miami (OH), NIU, and Toledo. There are far bigger concerns I have about NDSU moving to the FBS than fan support.

[IBleedYellow]

The past is not so distant, like just a few years ago before your first title run. You guys were like 3-8 and ready to fire Bohl. All it takes for a return to those days is a change in coaches and a bad hire. If the NDSU program returns to earth and settles in with a few years of playoff losses, or even missing the playoffs, and the type of demand you are experiencing now continues, I would be inclined to agree that a larger stadium and move to FBS is warranted. You guys are high on the hog right now but the true test of whether you should make a move or not will come when you have to maintain this demand through some non-championship years, because that is what a move to the FBS will result in, no championships to play for, unfamiliar opponents, weeknight games, and trips to pre-Christmas bowls. It is a completely different dynamic than what your program is experiencing right now. Can the demand for season tickets be maintained through such changes? It didn't happen in the past during some lean years.

It is a moot point though as you first need a conference invite and there isn't a conference in the footprint that fits NDSU. Hence my take that NDSU would need moving partners within their footprint and probably a change in the current structure of college football.

The "norm" for NDSU isn't losing seasons.

3 losing seasons in the past 50 years tells the narrative that I'm talking about. The fact that fans are used to winning seasons is the part that makes the FBS climb odd. Because we very well could settle and have losing seasons forever, and that sounds terrible.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The # would be bigger if people thought they had a chance at getting them....probably not the true demand. I would like to add more to my group, but I'm already grandfathered in with my 9 as it is.


I agree. IMO, if the Bison had a larger venue, they could have season ticket numbers of something like 20K or more.

[Bisonoline]

I remember a few years ago Bison fans were pissed about students not coming to the games and the FargoDome not being full. A move to FBS would mean suffering a few mediocre seasons through the transition with the end prize being a trip to some bowl in Detroit on a cold Tuesday night sometime before Christmas. The cries would once again go out about the inability to fill the FargoDome. Problem is, moving to the FBS would mean you would need a bigger venue than the FargoDome that you would need to fill. Money for a new stadium, money for the increase in scholarships, money for an FBS coaching staff, money for an increased travel budget...follow the money and it just doesn't add up. Besides, the most important thing you need is a conference to play in and there is none inside the geographic footprint for NDSU to join. NDSU is not moving to FBS without some outside assistance which would come in the form of the other Dakota schools and Montana schools looking to make the same move. They need neighbors who would be moving partners.

You are using message board whackos as an example? xlolx

[Thundar]

Not happening anytime soon

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

NDSU averaged 16,515 in attendance during that 3-8 year in 2009 (link (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2009.pdf)) which is 88% capacity in the Fargodome, was good for 9th in the FCS, and was better than a bunch of MAC schools had that same year like Ball St, Bowling Green, EMU, Kent St, Miami (OH), NIU, and Toledo. There are far bigger concerns I have about NDSU moving to the FBS than fan support.


IMO, NDSU could average 30K fans if the venue was there.

[MarkyMark]

"The Big XII isn't going to take NDSU any more than the SEC would take Jax State.

I think the Bisons would do well in FBS but they are too far removed from any leagues that would consider them and are not in a big media market. Sucks for them they are out but Georgia State is in but that's the reality of it. "


NDSU is not too far away from other FBS conferences.

All of the conferences in football and basketball are expanding geographically and adding new members that bring value. Look at the maps for Conference USA, American Athletic, Big Sky, Big East, Big 12. Conferences are less and less contiguous.

The Bison have finished ranked in the top 50 D1 football teams in the nation for the past several years, think of what NDSU could with 85 full rides at the FBS level.

[BisonTru]

The giant elephant in the room is the conference invite.

My question is how attractive is NDSU for their competitive standpoint?

My thoughts every G5 conference in the country needs to be thinking how can they be more competitive with the P5. If/When the playoffs expand you want your conference to maybe be included with an auto or at least see some teams get an at-large. You need teams in your conference to win OOC P5 games and Bowl P5 games to get that done. I don't know what outsiders think, but I truly believe if you bring in NDSU and give them 85 scholarships they could get your conference some P5 scalps. Hell, were doing it now with 63 scholarships. That's my biggest selling point to other conferences, not sure if they would see it the same way tho.

[tigonian02]

IMO, it'd be cool to see NDSU in FBS. The Georgraphy thing just like everyone else is saying is the biggest hindrance. Even still...the MAC and/or the MWC would probably take a good hard look if you conjured up a detail a plan on how to grow. You guys have a legitimate recruitment lock on that area of the country unlike anything that an FCS school has ever seen. Even the FBS Minnesota loses out because of yall being in the area.

[NY Crusader 2010]

If a MWC invite were to come about, I don't see why NDSU wouldn't jump all over that. Being in a conference with Boise State, Wyoming, Colorado State and Air Force seems to make a lot of sense. The longer trips (Nevada, Cali, Hawai) are a lot farther than the MAC but in reality, all the opponents there minus NIU are flights.

Maybe the MWC could add UTEP to even out the conference at 14. MAC move only makes a little sense if they came in tandem with local rival Northern Iowa.

[SUUTbird]

Personally I think the MWC would be a good fit for the Dakota States as they are routinely either the top or the 2nd strongest G5 Conference year after year (this is under the assumption that NDSU would only move up with SDSU) especially if they could get the Montana schools on board as well. I highly doubt the MWC (who was looking at expanding earlier this year) would turn away x4 of the bigger schools in the FCS and it would make the conference stronger overall. Even if they only decided to go to 14 teams NDSU could make the jump with either Montana, SDSU or even a Texas school like UTEP. When Looking at it though with my favorite scenario:

Mountain Division:
-Montana
-Montana state
-NDSU
-SDSU
-Boise State
-Colorado State
-Wyoming
-Air Force

West Division:
-Utah State
-Nevada
-San Jose State
-Hawaii
-Fresno State
-SDSU
-UNLV
-New Mexico

All of the Division games would be in states relatively close to North and South Dakota (Wyoming, Colorado, Idaho and Montana) with only having to play x2 teams from the opposite division every year. However going to California in particular could potentially be a big boost to recruiting for NDSU and with having x2 open weeks it would allow you to schedule a game with a B10 opponent like Minnesota (which could turn into a "Border War" rivalry game) and an FCS opponent like UNI.

[NY Crusader 2010]

SUU - if the MWC really wanted to expand to the level of adding SDSU, Montana and Montana State, why wouldn't they have just let Idaho and New Mexico State in after the WAC dissolved?

I don't think the Bison are even a little bit concerned about South Dakota State's fate when it comes to their decision to move up.

Does have the look of a pretty cool league though and something like it could very well come to fruition if there's a P5/G5 split.

[BisonFan02]

SUU - if the MWC really wanted to expand to the level of adding SDSU, Montana and Montana State, why wouldn't they have just let Idaho and New Mexico State in after the WAC dissolved?

I don't think the Bison are even a little bit concerned about South Dakota State's fate when it comes to their decision to move up.

Does have the look of a pretty cool league though and something like it could very well come to fruition if there's a P5/G5 split.

Don't be so sure of that.....there is a lot of respect there with both schools going up to DI at the same time. Things were a bit ugly up here when that was happening.

[SUUTbird]

SUU - if the MWC really wanted to expand to the level of adding SDSU, Montana and Montana State, why wouldn't they have just let Idaho and New Mexico State in after the WAC dissolved?
I don't think the Bison are even a little bit concerned about South Dakota State's fate when it comes to their decision to move up.

They didnt add Idaho or New Mexico State because for years they had been a doormat in the WAC and brought nothing to the table in terms of a fanbase and revenue. If you were to bring in the Montana's and Dakota State schools you would have 4 programs with passionate fan bases who travel well and who put money into their programs and take necessary steps to succeed. I also highly doubt the Bison would leave SDSU behind much like how Montana is a package deal with MSU I feel the same is with the Dakota State schools

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Isn't there something like over 1500 people with requests for over 4K season tickets on a waiting list?
I have been turn down the last 4 years for season tickets.

[Twentysix]

Don't be so sure of that.....there is a lot of respect there with both schools going up to DI at the same time. Things were a bit ugly up here when that was happening.

After SDSU's stadium expansion, I highly doubt NDSU goes FBS without SDSU coming with. They are most likely going to be a package deal when it ultimately comes about. We are also natural travel partners which would ease these crazy footprints a little bit. SDSU is already getting 16,000 people to games. They are easily capable of being a MWC MAC or SBC team, and NDSU will leverage itself to bring SDSU with imo. Not to mention NDSU and SDSU are a strong basketball pair for any of these conferences (we are both top 100 RPI programs most years in the Summit, and our RPI would only improve in the MWC or MAC).

[Bisonoline]

Personally I think the MWC would be a good fit for the Dakota States as they are routinely either the top or the 2nd strongest G5 Conference year after year (this is under the assumption that NDSU would only move up with SDSU) especially if they could get the Montana schools on board as well. I highly doubt the MWC (who was looking at expanding earlier this year) would turn away x4 of the bigger schools in the FCS and it would make the conference stronger overall. Even if they only decided to go to 14 teams NDSU could make the jump with either Montana, SDSU or even a Texas school like UTEP. When Looking at it though with my favorite scenario:

Mountain Division:
-Montana
-Montana state
-NDSU
-SDSU
-Boise State
-Colorado State
-Wyoming
-Air Force

West Division:
-Utah State
-Nevada
-San Jose State
-Hawaii
-Fresno State
-SDSU
-UNLV
-New Mexico

All of the Division games would be in states relatively close to North and South Dakota (Wyoming, Colorado, Idaho and Montana) with only having to play x2 teams from the opposite division every year. However going to California in particular could potentially be a big boost to recruiting for NDSU and with having x2 open weeks it would allow you to schedule a game with a B10 opponent like Minnesota (which could turn into a "Border War" rivalry game) and an FCS opponent like UNI.

That would basically stop many of the fans that travel.

[Gil Dobie]

You are using message board whackos as an example? xlolx

There's a lot of truth to what he said. I was a season ticket holder during that time, and there were a lot of empty seats in the student section for games. The first FCS playoff game only had about a 12,000 attendance. It was tough getting someone to use my tickets if I couldn't make a game from the Twin Cities.

[BisonBacker]

That would basically stop many of the fans that travel.

Outside of SDSU, USD, UNI and the Championship game lets not kid ourselves. The rest of the away games currently in the conference are sparsely attended by NDSU fans as well. We travel well to the ones I listed but the rest not so much so. The example above wouldn't change that much (not saying I believe his scenario will work I don't see it happening myself) but the Montana and Montana State games as well as SDSU would be attended close to if not the same as my list of schools we currently travel well to.

[BisonBacker]

IMO, it'd be cool to see NDSU in FBS. The Georgraphy thing just like everyone else is saying is the biggest hindrance. Even still...the MAC and/or the MWC would probably take a good hard look if you conjured up a detail a plan on how to grow. You guys have a legitimate recruitment lock on that area of the country unlike anything that an FCS school has ever seen. Even the FBS Minnesota loses out because of yall being in the area.

Our University President has already done this and the head of the NDSBOHE has already said he was against NDSU growing. NDSU not only has to deal with the geographic location along with conference factors but we have to deal with a State Board of Higher Ed that is led by an idiot. This guy is new to the job and one of the first things he says is he only wants to see NDSU grow if the students are not located in Fargo. I **** you not he said it. http://www.inforum.com/news/3873680-chancellor-devil-details-18000-enrollment-plan-ndsu So with a mentality like that NDSU's president is working to build NDSU and he has to do it with absolutely no help from the morons in Bismarck.

[Professor Chaos]

Outside of SDSU, USD, UNI and the Championship game lets not kid ourselves. The rest of the away games currently in the conference are sparsely attended by NDSU fans as well. We travel well to the ones I listed but the rest not so much so. The example above wouldn't change that much (not saying I believe his scenario will work I don't see it happening myself) but the Montana and Montana State games as well as SDSU would be attended close to if not the same as my list of schools we currently travel well to.
I wouldn't count on NDSU bringing nearly as many fans to Missoula as we would to Brookings. First off, ticket demand in Missoula is much different but it's also almost 1,000 miles away from Fargo. It's actually only 100 miles closer to Fargo that Frisco or Youngstown are (with no major air hub nearby as well).

Or to put it another way I recall calculating it when we drove out there this August. In Missoula you're closer to the Pacific Ocean than you are to Fargo.

[JSUSoutherner]

Outside of SDSU, USD, UNI and the Championship game lets not kid ourselves. The rest of the away games currently in the conference are sparsely attended by NDSU fans as well. We travel well to the ones I listed but the rest not so much so. The example above wouldn't change that much (not saying I believe his scenario will work I don't see it happening myself) but the Montana and Montana State games as well as SDSU would be attended close to if not the same as my list of schools we currently travel well to.
Real question, if NDSU and JSU actually by some stroke of luck got a home and home how many Bison fans would make the trek?

[Yote 53]

There is good attendance in the MVFC amongst the 3 Dakota schools for away games because we are all only 4 hours apart, a straight shot running north/south on I-29, with SDSU being smack in the middle between USD and NDSU.

The SUU guy laid out what looks like a reasonable conference scenario but forgot to factor in that both USD and UND are dumping tons of money into their athletic departments, increasing budgets, offering FCOA, and upgrading their athletic infrastructure as well. You think the two Dakota Universities are going to sit by and watch the Dakota States move on to the FBS? Think again. A move like that would also wreck the Summit League. You can bet there will be all sorts of state politics involved, like when USD almost accepted an invite to the Big Sky. That move threatened the Summit and SDSU's conference stability. A lot of politicking went on to get USD into the MVFC thereby keeping them in the Summit and helping to solidify that conference. I could see new conference alignments yielding the same politicking results. The Dakota States and USD's fates are kind of tied together due to their conference affiliation, UND not so much since they are out on their own island.

[BisonBacker]

Real question, if NDSU and JSU actually by some stroke of luck got a home and home how many Bison fans would make the trek?

Good question. I have no idea honestly.

[BisonBacker]

There is good attendance in the MVFC amongst the 3 Dakota schools for away games because we are all only 4 hours apart, a straight shot running north/south on I-29, with SDSU being smack in the middle between USD and NDSU.

The SUU guy laid out what looks like a reasonable conference scenario but forgot to factor in that both USD and UND are dumping tons of money into their athletic departments, increasing budgets, offering FCOA, and upgrading their athletic infrastructure as well. You think the two Dakota Universities are going to sit by and watch the Dakota States move on to the FBS? Think again. A move like that would also wreck the Summit League. You can bet there will be all sorts of state politics involved, like when USD almost accepted an invite to the Big Sky. That move threatened the Summit and SDSU's conference stability. A lot of politicking went on to get USD into the MVFC thereby keeping them in the Summit and helping to solidify that conference. I could see new conference alignments yielding the same politicking results. The Dakota States and USD's fates are kind of tied together due to their conference affiliation, UND not so much since they are out on their own island.

You kid yourself if you believe that NDSU and USD's fates are tied.

[BisonFan02]

There is good attendance in the MVFC amongst the 3 Dakota schools for away games because we are all only 4 hours apart, a straight shot running north/south on I-29, with SDSU being smack in the middle between USD and NDSU.

The SUU guy laid out what looks like a reasonable conference scenario but forgot to factor in that both USD and UND are dumping tons of money into their athletic departments, increasing budgets, offering FCOA, and upgrading their athletic infrastructure as well. You think the two Dakota Universities are going to sit by and watch the Dakota States move on to the FBS? Think again. A move like that would also wreck the Summit League. You can bet there will be all sorts of state politics involved, like when USD almost accepted an invite to the Big Sky. That move threatened the Summit and SDSU's conference stability. A lot of politicking went on to get USD into the MVFC thereby keeping them in the Summit and helping to solidify that conference. I could see new conference alignments yielding the same politicking results. The Dakota States and USD's fates are kind of tied together due to their conference affiliation, UND not so much since they are out on their own island.

You are probably right....USD and UND would NEVER let the Land Grants show you guys up again....

[Professor Chaos]

Real question, if NDSU and JSU actually by some stroke of luck got a home and home how many Bison fans would make the trek?
Wild guess... 500-1000.

I'd seriously consider it if I could catch a Bama or Auburn game that same day.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

There is good attendance in the MVFC amongst the 3 Dakota schools for away games because we are all only 4 hours apart, a straight shot running north/south on I-29, with SDSU being smack in the middle between USD and NDSU.

The SUU guy laid out what looks like a reasonable conference scenario but forgot to factor in that both USD and UND are dumping tons of money into their athletic departments, increasing budgets, offering FCOA, and upgrading their athletic infrastructure as well. You think the two Dakota Universities are going to sit by and watch the Dakota States move on to the FBS? Think again. A move like that would also wreck the Summit League. You can bet there will be all sorts of state politics involved, like when USD almost accepted an invite to the Big Sky. That move threatened the Summit and SDSU's conference stability. A lot of politicking went on to get USD into the MVFC thereby keeping them in the Summit and helping to solidify that conference. I could see new conference alignments yielding the same politicking results. The Dakota States and USD's fates are kind of tied together due to their conference affiliation, UND not so much since they are out on their own island.


USD does not have the money to go FBS and their dome is totally inadequate. Glenn complained about not having money to pay his assistants a decent salary.

If/when NDSU decides to move up or become part of the 2nd tier of football, the only school they would package themselves with would be SDSU.

[BisonBacker]

You are probably right....USD and UND would NEVER let the Land Grants show you guys up again....

One of NDSU's hurdles if they wanted to make that move would have nothing to do with USD or the Summit. It would have to do with the dolts in Bismarck. To Yote53's credit he does have the politics part half right but the politics he's referring to with USD and the Summit are 100% wrong. The main political issues NDSU does have to deal with come straight from Bismarck, the SBOHE and the Legislature.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Real question, if NDSU and JSU actually by some stroke of luck got a home and home how many Bison fans would make the trek?


As mentioned by chaos, probably somewhere around 1K.

- - - Updated - - -


One of NDSU's hurdles if they wanted to make that move would have nothing to do with USD or the Summit. It would have to do with the dolts in Bismarck. To Yote53's credit he does have the politics part half right but the politics he's referring to with USD and the Summit are 100% wrong. The main political issues NDSU does have to deal with come straight from Bismarck, the SBOHE and the Legislature.


This right here 100%

The new chancellor seems like a complete idiot.

[BisonBacker]

USD does not have the money to go FBS and their dome is totally inadequate. Glenn complained about not having money to pay his assistants a decent salary.

If/when NDSU decides to move up or become part of the 2nd tier of football, the only school they would package themselves with would be SDSU.

They are the only one's who showed any integrity and foresight along with NDSU in the 4 state schools from the Dakotas.

[JSUSoutherner]

As mentioned by chaos, probably somewhere around 1K.
That's actually really disappointing. After seeing Frisco it seems like a really low number for the Bison. But I can't say JSU would do any better on a Fargo trip.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

They are the only one's who showed any integrity and foresight along with NDSU in the 4 state schools from the Dakotas.


Yep 100%

UND can have their hockey "glory". USD would never make it at FBS....they barely make it at the FCS level.

[BisonBacker]

That's actually really disappointing. After seeing Frisco it seems like a really low number for the Bison. But I can't say JSU would do any better on a Fargo trip.

Ticket availability would be a big factor and I'm sure if NDSU was coming down your fans would be wanting tickets. I'd say whatever the allotment your school would send to NDSU would be the number.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

That's actually really disappointing. After seeing Frisco it seems like a really low number for the Bison. But I can't say JSU would do any better on a Fargo trip.


Apples/oranges comparison with Frisco. An early game at JSU in September will not be attended like Frisco.

I would suspect JSU would have maybe 50-100 fans in Fargo for a game.

[JSUSoutherner]

Ticket availability would be a big factor and I'm sure if NDSU was coming down your fans would be wanting tickets. I'd say whatever the allotment your school would send to NDSU would be the number.
Depends on if we can carry our crowds over from the playoffs. Chuck South and Sammy both happened when Bama and Auburn weren't playing... As much as I hate to say it it wouldn't surprise me if we average under 20,000 next year... It's going to be interesting how much of our fan support sticks around.


Apples/oranges comparison with Frisco. An early game at JSU in September will not be attended like Frisco.

I would suspect JSU would have maybe 50-100 fans in Fargo for a game.
Don't North Dakotans start to melt at around 84 degrees?

[IBleedYellow]

Depends on if we can carry our crowds over from the playoffs. Chuck South and Sammy both happened when Bama and Auburn weren't playing... As much as I hate to say it it wouldn't surprise me if we average under 20,000 next year... It's going to be interesting how much of our fan support sticks around.


Don't North Dakotans start to melt at around 84 degrees?
It gets around 100 here every summer. So no.

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[Laker]

It gets around 100 here every summer. So no.

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Some people aren't aware of the extremes of a continental climate.

[JSUSoutherner]

It gets around 100 here every summer. So no.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
Humidity makes all the difference.

But yeah, I know it gets pretty hot up there. Especially after it rains.

[Yote 53]

No, NDSU and USD's fate probably aren't merged, but SDSU and USD's fate are merged. Any partnership that NDSU and SDSU have together is going to involve USD due to that factor. It is a domino effect. If NDSU were to move autonomously then they would only need to deal with the NDSBoE and UND, which would also get political. If NDSU starts nosing around with new conferences you can bet that will have a ripple effect in the Summit with the South Dakota schools too where we both start to get a little edgy and start looking for options as well. Those are the linkages that I am talking about. That what one institution does is going to definitely cause change at the other institutions as well.

In case you hadn't noticed USD has ponied up for head & assistant coaches salaries, FCOA, and facilities. It isn't like it used to be around here where everything was on a shoestring. They're not going to plop down $60 million in facility upgrades and then watch SDSU pull away again. Not happening.

USD and UND made one mistake already by letting the SU's get out in front of them in the D1 world. They aren't going to let that happen again.

[Yote 53]

Some people aren't aware of the extremes of a continental climate.

Heading to Fargo tomorrow for the weekend. Looking forward to the -20 temps on Saturday with a 10-15 mph wind which should drive the wind chill down to a balmy -34. Really, South Dakota isn't going to be much better though.

[JSUSoutherner]

Heading to Fargo tomorrow for the weekend. Looking forward to the -20 temps on Saturday with a 10-15 mph wind which should drive the wind chill down to a balmy -34. Really, South Dakota isn't going to be much better though.
It's 60 here. I'm sporting jeans and a wind breaker. xcoolx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Heading to Fargo tomorrow for the weekend. Looking forward to the -20 temps on Saturday with a 10-15 mph wind which should drive the wind chill down to a balmy -34. Really, South Dakota isn't going to be much better though.

I've been removed from that climate for so long, I can't quite handle it anymore.

2 years ago when we played NH in the semis, I drove up for the game. When I left Kansas it was 50 degrees. By the time I got to Fargo is was 15 below. I needed gas right when I got there and I thought I was going to die standing there at the pump.

[BisonBacker]

I hate you all xlolx

[UNIFanSince1983]

I never realized there was such a difference in temperature between even Lincoln and Cedar Falls. Heck it is going to be 48 today. Granted 10 degrees isn't huge, but still pretty big difference.

[Yote 53]

I never realized there was such a difference in temperature between even Lincoln and Cedar Falls. Heck it is going to be 48 today. Granted 10 degrees isn't huge, but still pretty big difference.

It has to do with the jet stream, I believe. Omaha/Lincoln always does seem like it is warmer than Eastern Iowa.

Anyways, the cold doesn't really bother me anymore, you just kind of get used to it. I think your blood thickens up or something. I went outside last night with just a long sleeve t-shirt on to do some shoveling and was wondering why this snow wasn't just melting. I though it was about 40 degrees out, looked at my phone and realized it was 20. Ehh, thought it was kind of a nice evening outside.

[centennial]

It's 60 here. I'm sporting jeans and a wind breaker. xcoolx

Wind breaker at 60 lol. I wear shorts in 40 degree weather.

[JSUSoutherner]

Wind breaker at 60 lol. I wear shorts in 40 degree weather.
I got hot so I took it off. It's a short sleeves kind of day now.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22119&stc=1

[marenlee]

I live on Guam. The high is 87 with a low of 76 EVERY DAY. In June and January. Suck on that Mainlanders.

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[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

No, NDSU and USD's fate probably aren't merged, but SDSU and USD's fate are merged. Any partnership that NDSU and SDSU have together is going to involve USD due to that factor. It is a domino effect. If NDSU were to move autonomously then they would only need to deal with the NDSBoE and UND, which would also get political. If NDSU starts nosing around with new conferences you can bet that will have a ripple effect in the Summit with the South Dakota schools too where we both start to get a little edgy and start looking for options as well. Those are the linkages that I am talking about. That what one institution does is going to definitely cause change at the other institutions as well.

In case you hadn't noticed USD has ponied up for head & assistant coaches salaries, FCOA, and facilities. It isn't like it used to be around here where everything was on a shoestring. They're not going to plop down $60 million in facility upgrades and then watch SDSU pull away again. Not happening.

USD and UND made one mistake already by letting the SU's get out in front of them in the D1 world. They aren't going to let that happen again.

So if it seems like some of the strongest teams in a conference are looking to leave other teams are going to look at their options??? This is shocking! Our fate must be tied to, well, everyone's then.....

[ST_Lawson]

I never realized there was such a difference in temperature between even Lincoln and Cedar Falls. Heck it is going to be 48 today. Granted 10 degrees isn't huge, but still pretty big difference.

Same here....it's like 47 and sunny right now. It was so warm I had to leave my coat in the car. It's beautiful out. It's going to be a high of 2 for us on Sunday, but it's nice today at least.

[Twentysix]

It has felt like summer since getting back from Dallas. Before going to Dallas I was wearing hoodies most days because it was 50-60 degrees, now those temps feel great. I was freezing in Frisco lol.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22120&stc=1

If it really is 71, that is exceptionally warm for this winter so far especially at 10:30 in the morning.

[ST_Lawson]

So if it seems like some of the strongest teams in a conference are looking to leave other teams are going to look at their options??? This is shocking! Our fate must be tied to, well, everyone's then.....

Yea, if the Dakotas leave for other opportunities, we're looking at 6 teams left in the Summit. You'd probably see the Indiana schools shoot for getting in the Horizon League, Oral Bob might try to get back with the Southland or shoot for Missouri Valley, maybe Denver and Omaha might try for the WAC or something. Western....well....idk. Maybe Horizon...Ohio Valley...depends on who'd be interested in having us.

So, likely a pretty big ripple effect for everyone in the conference as well as any other similar-type conferences in the region.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

There is a obvious answer to what NDSU should do in this situation.

NDSU should petition to become an expansion team in the CFL. We would bring a lucrative new TV market for the Canadians and they are in our geographical footprint. This will also keep the rest of college football from complaining that we already field a professional team. OK then, might as well pay them. Plus since Canada is America's Hat and North Dakota it's plain bald head, it's a match made in heaven. And lastly we won't be pissed off by the incorrect pronunciation of our mascot and our accents are pretty much on point.

[Bisonoline]

I hate you all xlolx

Just think---we moved UP to this climate. But my wife loves it up here. But there has been a learning curve. Gloves when putting gas in the car. A hat is important as well. She asked why I didnt tell her these important facts. I asked her when was the last time she listened to me? :D But the fact is I did tell you. boom.

[BisonFan02]

No, NDSU and USD's fate probably aren't merged, but SDSU and USD's fate are merged. Any partnership that NDSU and SDSU have together is going to involve USD due to that factor. It is a domino effect. If NDSU were to move autonomously then they would only need to deal with the NDSBoE and UND, which would also get political. If NDSU starts nosing around with new conferences you can bet that will have a ripple effect in the Summit with the South Dakota schools too where we both start to get a little edgy and start looking for options as well. Those are the linkages that I am talking about. That what one institution does is going to definitely cause change at the other institutions as well.

In case you hadn't noticed USD has ponied up for head & assistant coaches salaries, FCOA, and facilities. It isn't like it used to be around here where everything was on a shoestring. They're not going to plop down $60 million in facility upgrades and then watch SDSU pull away again. Not happening.

USD and UND made one mistake already by letting the SU's get out in front of them in the D1 world. They aren't going to let that happen again.

....USD and UND will do everything they can to make sure NDSU and SDSU can't leave them in the dust again....like I said.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Wind breaker at 60 lol. I wear shorts in 40 degree weather.


Windbreaker at 60.....xlolx

Love this snow. Just got back from rippin it up on the 4-wheeler on the snowmobile trails....xnodx

[Sycamore62]

It's 60 here. I'm sporting jeans and a wind breaker. xcoolx

God! why am i still living here

anyway, Ive been in the area when people there said it was hot and humid. Its just like hot and humid here.

[Sycamore62]

Yea, if the Dakotas leave for other opportunities, we're looking at 6 teams left in the Summit. You'd probably see the Indiana schools shoot for getting in the Horizon League, Oral Bob might try to get back with the Southland or shoot for Missouri Valley, maybe Denver and Omaha might try for the WAC or something. Western....well....idk. Maybe Horizon...Ohio Valley...depends on who'd be interested in having us.

So, likely a pretty big ripple effect for everyone in the conference as well as any other similar-type conferences in the region.

Im curious, does anyone have any idea what kind of money you get from the conference from the NCAA tournament in the MVC? I always figured that's why we never look elsewhere. Im sure there are other reasons too.

[Bisonator]

There is a obvious answer to what NDSU should do in this situation.

NDSU should petition to become an expansion team in the CFL. We would bring a lucrative new TV market for the Canadians and they are in our geographical footprint. This will also keep the rest of college football from complaining that we already field a professional team. OK then, might as well pay them. Plus since Canada is America's Hat and North Dakota it's plain bald head, it's a match made in heaven. And lastly we won't be pissed off by the incorrect pronunciation of our mascot and our accents are pretty much on point.



Not to mention we could host the Grey Cup game in the FFD! It'd be like going to the Rose Bowl for canucks!xlolx

[Twentysix]

Not to mention we could host the Grey Cup game in the FFD! It'd be like going to the Rose Bowl for canucks!xlolx

Think of the poutine!

[Bisonoline]

Windbreaker at 60.....xlolx

Love this snow. Just got back from rippin it up on the 4-wheeler on the snowmobile trails....xnodx

Wife was out plowing the snow on the 4-wheeler. She wouldnt let me help. LOL

[1984]

I live on Guam. The high is 87 with a low of 76 EVERY DAY. In June and January. Suck on that Mainlanders.

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Sounds like absolute terrible climate to me. I could handle the 76 as a high but 87 is absolutely misserable hot.

[Catatonic]

Until there is a conference invitation NDSU cant do anything. MWC? Dont care for it as its out of our geographical footprint. We are only really suited for the B10 and the B12. Dont see an invite coming from either.



bwhahaha . That is all. Carry on.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Wife was out plowing the snow on the 4-wheeler. She wouldnt let me help. LOL


:D

[UNIFanSince1983]

Im curious, does anyone have any idea what kind of money you get from the conference from the NCAA tournament in the MVC? I always figured that's why we never look elsewhere. Im sure there are other reasons too.

It is based on the wins in the tournament. I am pretty sure every conference gets the same amount of shares, but with the success the MVC has had in the tournament it is pretty good for what the conference is. It is completely based on success and the amount of teams in. So the MVC for instance would be better than most peer conferences in that regard. I am sure Clenz can give more information on that for sure though.

[IBleedYellow]

It's all about how far you go. Winning gets you better paychecks.

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[Sycamore62]

I just wondered if we are talking $50k or $500k in a typical year for the MVC

[KPSUL]

Think of the poutine!

I thought that stuff was only eaten by French-Canadians on our side of the continent.

[BisonFan02]

I thought that stuff was only eaten by French-Canadians on our side of the continent.

He spelled poontang wrong....clearly.

[ST_Lawson]

I just wondered if we are talking $50k or $500k in a typical year for the MVC

This might help some: http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-march-madness-basketball-fund/
Essentially conferences are paid for "units"...one unit per tournament game played. A team makes it to the final four, they get 5 units. The conferences get the money for the units and can decide how to distribute, but most conferences split them evenly. Rate per unit changes each year depending on revenue, but last year was $260,525.

So, if you take that number, multiply by the number of games that MVC teams played in in the tournament, then divide by number of teams in the conference, that's likely what each MVC school gets from the tournament.

EDIT - just did a quick check and it looks like Wichita State got 3 units and UNI got 2 last year. Total of 5 units = about 1.3 million
Divided by the 10 teams in the conference, and everyone gets ~$130k from the conference's tournament appearances last year.

[waverly_panther]

I don't think it is divided equally. I think the team that earned the unit gets an additional percentage. For example, they divide by 11 and the team that earned those units gets 2 of the 11, with the other conference teams getting 1. Gives some incentive to make the tournament.

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[Hammersmith]

I don't think it is divided equally. I think the team that earned the unit gets an additional percentage. For example, they divide by 11 and the team that earned those units gets 2 of the 11, with the other conference teams getting 1. Gives some incentive to make the tournament.

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Not quite. The Valley uses a slightly complicated method to reward teams that make it. A team that makes the tourney gets a half unit for every site it gets to. Once those units are deducted from the total NCAA payout, the rest is divided evenly.

Last year's payout:
2015 units: 5
2014 units: 2
2013 units: 7
2012 units: 3
2011 units: 1
2010 units: 3
Total units: 21
2015 unit value: $260,525
2015 NCAA payout to MVC: $5,471,025

2015 payout to individual MVC teams:
Wichita State: $768,548.75 (base + 1.0 unit for traveling to Omaha and Cleveland)
UNI: $638,286.25 (base + 0.5 unit for travelling to Seattle)
All other schools: $508,023.75

(These numbers might be a bit off due to Loyola. I couldn't quickly find out how much revenue they are forgoing during their first few years in the conference. If they're not receiving a full share, then their actual number is smaller while the rest of the numbers are a touch bigger.)

[Hammersmith]

Yea, if the Dakotas leave for other opportunities, we're looking at 6 teams left in the Summit. You'd probably see the Indiana schools shoot for getting in the Horizon League, Oral Bob might try to get back with the Southland or shoot for Missouri Valley, maybe Denver and Omaha might try for the WAC or something. Western....well....idk. Maybe Horizon...Ohio Valley...depends on who'd be interested in having us.

So, likely a pretty big ripple effect for everyone in the conference as well as any other similar-type conferences in the region.

This is why I laugh at the Bison fans that get angry because NDSU isn't trumpeting their FBS desire for all the world to hear. Everyone knows that Summit and stability should not be used in the same sentence, and that the conference is on the lookout for a good 10th member to even everything out and shore up the baseball autobid. And since the Dakota schools(mostly the States) are arguably the cornerstones of the conference right now, how likely would getting a quality new member be if one or both of them were openly talking about leaving? If NDSU is serious about going FBS, I can almost guarantee they will keep all discussions with potential new conferences completely quiet until an agreement is reached.

[dewey]

Not from my point of view. I'll take what we have at the FCS level every day and twice on fall Saturdays over what Georgia St has at the FBS level.

Some, including other Bison fans, will call me small-time but I'd much rather watch my team compete in a minor league tournament for a minor league national championship than I would watch them compete in a minor league bowl for one of the 30+ mythical championships they hand out in those bowls.

^^^^^This right here! Let me see...move to the FBS and go to some crap bowl or compete for a national championship.

Dewey

[dewey]

It's 60 here. I'm sporting jeans and a wind breaker. xcoolx

60 that would be awesome! I would be wearing shorts and a tee shirt. It is -3 here but I could never live some where that doesn't have all 4 seasons.

Dewey

[dewey]

Here are the issues that I am aware of if NDSU wanted to move up.
1. To fully fund football NDSU would need to add 22 scholarships but that is EASY the hard part is do you cut men's sports in order to meet Title IX requirements or add some women's sports. Overall not that hard to do.
2. Find a conference. Tough to do as NDSU seems too far for the SBC, MAC and MWC. Depending on how the G5 and P5 shakes out possibly move up with a bunch of the FCS schools and make their own conference. Harder than point 1.
3. The Fargodome IMHO would need to be replaced and if you wanted an indoor stadium it. Could cost $125 to $200 million dollars. Now had the lottery gods blessed me with the Powerball NDSU would be building a new stadium but alas they did not.

IIMHO I love, FREAKING LOVE seeing NDSU compete for a National championship every year and a move to the FBS would make that nearly impossible. Yes there is Boise State but for every BSU there are remnants of the Western Kentucky ' s and UMASS type schools.

Simply put I do believe when the P5 break away NDSU, UNI and SDSU along with other top.F S programs move up to compete in the 2nd tier.

Everyone in the FCS better get better.

Dewey

[IBleedYellow]

Here are the issues that I am aware of if NDSU wanted to move up.
1. To fully fund football NDSU would need to add 22 scholarships but that is EASY the hard part is do you cut men's sports in order to meet Title IX requirements or add some women's sports. Overall not that hard to do.
2. Find a conference. Tough to do as NDSU seems too far for the SBC, MAC and MWC. Depending on how the G5 and P5 shakes out possibly move up with a bunch of the FCS schools and make their own conference. Harder than point 1.
3. The Fargodome IMHO would need to be replaced and if you wanted an indoor stadium it. Could cost $125 to $200 million dollars. Now had the lottery gods blessed me with the Powerball NDSU would be building a new stadium but alas they did not.

IIMHO I love, FREAKING LOVE seeing NDSU compete for a National championship every year and a move to the FBS would make that nearly impossible. Yes there is Boise State but for every BSU there are remnants of the Western Kentucky ' s and UMASS type schools.

Simply put I do believe when the P5 break away NDSU, UNI and SDSU along with other top.F S programs move up to compete in the 2nd tier.

Everyone in the FCS better get better.

Dewey


We would actually have to add 44 scholarships...we're already at the minimum amount of sports sponsored to be FBS...so cutting things wouldn't do any good.

[Twentysix]

I thought that stuff was only eaten by French-Canadians on our side of the continent.

Smoke's just opened locations in California! Poutine!

[Bisonoline]

We would actually have to add 44 scholarships...we're already at the minimum amount of sports sponsored to be FBS...so cutting things wouldn't do any good.

Why 44? Title 9?

[Twentysix]

Why 44? Title 9?

Looks that way. It would be time for a women's swimming team (9 scholarships) (pool being built), women's bowling (10 scholarships) (Bowling lanes in union), women's gymnastics (12 scholarships) (shac) or maybe bolster any underfunded women's sports?

[Hammersmith]

Looks that way. It would be time for a women's swimming team (9.9 scholarships), women's bowling, women's gymnastics and maybe bolster any underfunded women's sports?

There are no underfunded women's sports at NDSU. All are at max or have the budget for max. (WBB is not at full scholie, but that's not due to lack of funds.)

NDSU doesn't use proportionality, so there's no need for a 1:1 match. Still, we'd just add swimming & diving(14) and tennis(8). Both are Summit sports and happen to add up to 22.

[Twentysix]

There are no underfunded women's sports at NDSU. All are at max or have the budget for max. (WBB is not at full scholie, but that's not due to lack of funds.)

NDSU doesn't use proportionality, so there's no need for a 1:1 match. Still, we'd just add swimming & diving(14) and tennis(8). Both are Summit sports and happen to add up to 22.

Perfect, and I suppose tennis courts are extremely cheap to build.

[Hammersmith]

Perfect, and I suppose tennis courts are extremely cheap to build.

Probably rent/lease space from a fitness center. Maybe an addition to the SHAC at some point. Would want an indoor, conditioned space rather than anything outdoor.

[IBleedYellow]

So we'd still have to add 44 scholarships, or was I wrong?

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[Hammersmith]

So we'd still have to add 44 scholarships, or was I wrong?

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Yes/no. 'Have to' is a bit strong. Theoretically, because NDSU uses the 'interests and abilities' prong of the Title IX test, we could add the 22 extra football scholarships and leave it at that. If we're satisfying the interests and abilities of the female students now, that wouldn't change just because we added extra football scholarships. But that's probably not a realistic way of looking at it. To be safe, adding at least some women's scholarships would be wise. Since we're already maxed out in the sports we have, that means adding new sports. I could see NDSU just adding tennis, or I could see them adding that and S&D. The fact that those two combined just happen to add up to the same number of added FB scholarships is pure coincidence.

Personally, I'd like to see NDSU add M/W tennis, M/W S&D, and maybe even M soccer, no matter what the FBS decision. But that's asking for a lot.

[dgtw]

Sand volleyball? If you have an indoor team you can just double count some of them.


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[Hammersmith]

Sand volleyball? If you have an indoor team you can just double count some of them.


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Travel costs, no conference. Lots of support costs for only 6 scholarships.

[dewey]

Here is an interesting article from the Minneapolis Star Tribune columnist Patrick Reusse. He talks about why NDSU shouldn't move up and also that the University of Minnesota and NDSU should play a yearly season opener. The Gophers would host the game at TCF Bank stadium and the NDSU home game would be at the US Bank stadium.

http://m.startribune.com/fcs-champion-ndsu-bison-are-fine-where-they-are/365565021/

Dewey

[Laker]

Here is an interesting article from the Minneapolis Star Tribune columnist Patrick Reusse. He talks about why NDSU shouldn't move up and also that the University of Minnesota and NDSU should play a yearly season opener. The Gophers would host the game at TCF Bank stadium and the NDSU home game would be at the US Bank stadium.

http://m.startribune.com/fcs-champion-ndsu-bison-are-fine-where-they-are/365565021/

Dewey

Patrick Reusse, the pride of Fulda, MN is a jewel. His stories often have the effect of battery acid but he tells it like it is. He is 180 degrees different than Sid Hartman, who never met a big shot, a star or an owner that he didn't like. He is also great on the radio.

I met him twice briefly at the Mavs D2 football semifinal loss to Valdosta and the quarterfinal win over UMD. He is moving much slower than he used to but the wit is still razor sharp.

[Hammerhead]

All good stuff except for his claim that the Gophers would win 8 out of 10 matchups with NDSU. :)


Here is an interesting article from the Minneapolis Star Tribune columnist Patrick Reusse. He talks about why NDSU shouldn't move up and also that the University of Minnesota and NDSU should play a yearly season opener. The Gophers would host the game at TCF Bank stadium and the NDSU home game would be at the US Bank stadium.

http://m.startribune.com/fcs-champion-ndsu-bison-are-fine-where-they-are/365565021/

Dewey

[AmsterBison]

Patrick Reusse, the pride of Fulda, MN is a jewel. His stories often have the effect of battery acid but he tells it like it is. He is 180 degrees different than Sid Hartman, who never met a big shot, a star or an owner that he didn't like. He is also great on the radio.

I met him twice briefly at the Mavs D2 football semifinal loss to Valdosta and the quarterfinal win over UMD. He is moving much slower than he used to but the wit is still razor sharp.

That's quite a change from when he named NDSU's President Turkey of the Year back in 2002! (article shows 2007 but that's wrong.) I applaud anybody who has the guts to change a position... as long as they go from the wrong one to the right one. :)

http://www.startribune.com/patrick-reusse-turkey-of-year-field-is-a-smorgasbord/11717466/


Joseph Chapman. The president of North Dakota State has been 100 percent behind the wacky plan to propel his school into Division I athletics. Meantime, the NDSU football team -- too mighty for its Division II rivals in Chapman's opinion -- finished 1-7 and last in the North Central Conference.


BTW, Fulda? I think my great-great grandparents homesteaded there!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Here is an interesting article from the Minneapolis Star Tribune columnist Patrick Reusse. He talks about why NDSU shouldn't move up and also that the University of Minnesota and NDSU should play a yearly season opener. The Gophers would host the game at TCF Bank stadium and the NDSU home game would be at the US Bank stadium.

http://m.startribune.com/fcs-champion-ndsu-bison-are-fine-where-they-are/365565021/

Dewey



Thanks for posting!

8/10 would be Bison wins.....xthumbsupx An annual game with them would be great!

[SENOREIDA]

Sand volleyball? If you have an indoor team you can just double count some of them.


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This is what Coastal did to add scholarships to football. We were invited to the ASun for Beach Volleyball. We start this spring, we announced the sport in October. Kinda crazy you can form a team and compete that quickly. We are also playing all of our games on the road until Myrtle Beach builds a sand volleyball stadium.

[Laker]

BTW, Fulda? I think my great-great grandparents homesteaded there!

I go there four times a year to observe the college classes taught in the high school. I'm buddies with the girls basketball coach- they won the state title twice. Nice Milwaukee Road caboose thy the museum there.

[Laker]

Thanks for posting!

8/10 would be Bison wins.....xthumbsupx An annual game with them would be great!

If Tim Brewster was still coaching it would be 10/10- for the Bison.

[Bearkats94]

NDSU wants to be in that second tier of football whatever it may be and I think they are positioning themselves to do so once the P5 breaks away. One of the obvious things that points to that is the Cost of Attendence deal. To be in that second tier with the MWC, MAC, Sunbelt teams would be some good football in my opinion....as long as they implement a playoff system. In my opinion though it is really too bad that the state of ND doesn't get behind NDSU and help fund a larger stadium etc......with the wave of success that we are riding the sky could be the limit. The Big 10 or 12 would actually be a possibility if the state would get behind NDSU with some real dollars, but they won't, because they are small thinkers and have the mentality of oh we can't do that, we are just little ole ND. Plus ND has a fricking little piss ant college in every damn town in the state to fund.....some of those need to be axed and the money funneled to the two DI schools in the state. I am sure there will be some on here that will say we couldn't fill a 35-40K seat stadium.....well if you have teams like Oklahoma, Texas, etc coming to town there would be a lot more people coming in from MN, SD, ND to see those types of games. Again I know it will never happen, because ND as a state is too cheap to do it........but we do have the money to do it. Our foot is in the door with the wrestling team competeing in the Big 12 already.......all it would take is what it always takes......a butt load of cash!

The funny thing is they made tons of money when the oil boom hit up there I thought. Y'all fans support would be like Nebraska I bet if a bigger one was build.



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[UNDOregon]

Here is an interesting article from the Minneapolis Star Tribune columnist Patrick Reusse. He talks about why NDSU shouldn't move up and also that the University of Minnesota and NDSU should play a yearly season opener. The Gophers would host the game at TCF Bank stadium and the NDSU home game would be at the US Bank stadium.

http://m.startribune.com/fcs-champion-ndsu-bison-are-fine-where-they-are/365565021/

Dewey

It's a trap. No Minneapolis/St. Paul sports writer will write a positive story about NDSU. Print journalists still have their hometown biases. He wants NDSU to know its place, the FCS. He says NDSU fans should be happy with a couple tossed bones (FCS championships and annual games in Minneapolis). Those bones might be fine now, but his job is to write about and argue the lower-division, status quo for NDSU, Minnesota State-Mankato, St. Cloud State, and Minnesota-Duluth.

[frozennorth]

I think things could work for Uni and Ndsu to join the AAC.

After being left out in 2014 and Oklahoma flopping a few days ago I think the Big 12 is set up to be left out again. I expect that would lead to a raid on the AAC. I'm not sure who offers a better BB/FB tandem than NDSU/UNI. They would be crazy not to kick the tires if a spot opened up

[THE HERD]

[QUOTE=Bearkats94;2318321]The funny thing is they made tons of money when the oil boom hit up there I thought. Y'all fans support would be like Nebraska I bet if a bigger one was build.

Like I said, the state does have the money right now, but will never use any of it for something like this. Our legislature is too cheap and and small minded to the see the opportunity that is right in front of them. Plus as I said earlier ND funds too many little colleges across the state...need to end some of those. Hell historically UND recieves more funding than NDSU each year.....that may be due to UND having a law school, which leads to more UND grads being in the positions to influence that type of thing. I agree with your fan support statement......if you build it they will come!!xthumbsupx