Idaho exploring backup plan to drop to FCS

[RootinFerDukes]

Well put. I'll be honest. They had a whole lot of dick fans back when they were FCS so I don't think it can hurt to eschew some of them as it is.

There were a lot of good ones too so hopefully those types are the ones that stay.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say those vandal fans are LONG gone. 20 years of god awful football and a demotion back to Fcs is sure to cut them off by this point.
They're probably Boise state fans now.

[DFW HOYA]

There are plenty of FCS conference which requested the ability to move the entire conf to the FBS level, and were told flattly NO. If I'm the CAA, I start talking to my lawyers if other conference are being allowed to do what they were told they could not. A lot of money has been spent by CAA schools struggling through the FBS transition.

How many CAA schools could legitimately meet I-A stadium and attendance thresholds?

James Madison: Yes
Delaware: Yes
Villanova: Unlikely without moving its games to Chester
Albany: Down the road
Stony Brook: Down the road
W&M: Not in Colonial Williamsburg
UR: Not on campus
Towson: No
Elon: No
Maine: No
UNH: No
URI: Not even close

[clenz]

How many CAA schools could legitimately meet I-A stadium and attendance thresholds?

James Madison: Yes
Delaware: Yes
Villanova: Unlikely without moving its games to Chester
Albany: Down the road
Stony Brook: Down the road
W&M: Not in Colonial Williamsburg
UR: Not on campus
Towson: No
Elon: No
Maine: No
UNH: No
URI: Not even close
Interesting look. Made meh check the MVFC.

YSU - yes
SDSU - yes
NDSU - yes
MSU - yes
WIU - yes
UNI - yes
SIU - yes
ISUr - with a few temp seats easily get there.
Indiana State - with some temp seats yes...have 12.764 seats but all on one side. Temp seats easy to install.
USD - no and not possible without a new stadium

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How many CAA schools could legitimately meet I-A stadium and attendance thresholds?

James Madison: Yes
Delaware: Yes
Villanova: Unlikely without moving its games to Chester
Albany: Down the road
Stony Brook: Down the road
W&M: Not in Colonial Williamsburg
UR: Not on campus
Towson: No
Elon: No
Maine: No
UNH: No
URI: Not even close

At the time they were looking they had Georgia State and UMass, so that would have been four. Towson I know at least looked at the possibility of FBS at one time, so that's five.

In fact, you could say that the CAA suffered a lot of damage simply because they couldn't sponsor FBS football as a conference, at least for some of its members.

[ccd494]

At the time they were looking they had Georgia State and UMass, so that would have been four. Towson I know at least looked at the possibility of FBS at one time, so that's five.

In fact, you could say that the CAA suffered a lot of damage simply because they couldn't sponsor FBS football as a conference, at least for some of its members.

I think UNH could at least nominally, with the new stadium and continuing to count all the tailgaters as attending even if they don't enter the facility.

[superman7515]

At the time they were looking they had Georgia State and UMass, so that would have been four. Towson I know at least looked at the possibility of FBS at one time, so that's five.

In fact, you could say that the CAA suffered a lot of damage simply because they couldn't sponsor FBS football as a conference, at least for some of its members.

And it was prior to Richmond's stadium going for a swim in cold water.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/920725f811bae610721f940ea31e2fda/tumblr_inline_n8u066uyYq1r1k6jt.jpg

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say those vandal fans are LONG gone. 20 years of god awful football and a demotion back to Fcs is sure to cut them off by this point.
They're probably Boise state fans now.

That is truly my hope.

[BisonFan02]

When can we expect our Idaho Vandal overlords to infiltrate AGS and tell us they will dominate the subdivision day 1? :D

[PantherRob82]

I'm excited to have them back.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

When can we expect our Idaho Vandal overlords to infiltrate AGS and tell us they will dominate the subdivision day 1? :D

Welp, I am guessing they will need help signing up since I have not gotten that snafu fixed. I've really enjoyed not having to deal with all that crap in the emails and avoiding spam and so forth.

Since this page is public I will tell any interested new members they will need to contact with the "contact us" button or go through @AGSFCS on twitter.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It has been about a year of closed registration now though. xlolx

[arkstfan]

Why not?

If UT-RGV has Mack Brown chairing a committee on adding the sport, that's three with Idaho and NMSU. Grand Canyon certainly has the money. That's four. The remaining schools range from unlikely to start football (Seattle, Utah Valley, UMKC) to very, very unlikely (CSU Bakersfield) to no chance in hell (Chicago State).

So, they then need to start looking around for other schools to join the conference. Maybe Texas State would rather be in a southwestern conference than a southeastern. Maybe Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word (already affiliate members) want to elevate their programs. Maybe Abilene Christian. Maybe some current D-2's want to move up.

The viability of this is obviously an ongoing question. NCAA bylaws say a conference can't unilaterally move from FCS to FBS. Well, that's not what the WAC would be doing. If they can convince the rest of the FBS voting members this is a good idea, it isn't like this would open the floodgates for the CAA or MVFC or whoever to come along. They'd just say the WAC was a dormant FBS conference.

They already are stretching to fill all the bowls, adding another few programs would get them there AND let the cities that want bowls but are caught by the moratorium add them and pay ESPN/the NCAA their money.

The WAC can be a football league. But it would have to be an FCS league.
Once the grace period expired their ability to hand out FBS memberships lapsed.

[RootinFerDukes]

Interesting look. Made meh check the MVFC.

YSU - yes
SDSU - yes
NDSU - yes
MSU - yes
WIU - yes
UNI - yes
SIU - yes
ISUr - with a few temp seats easily get there.
Indiana State - with some temp seats yes...have 12.764 seats but all on one side. Temp seats easy to install.
USD - no and not possible without a new stadium

There's no way that many Mvfc schools are averaging at least 15k per game over the last five or so years.
They all have at least 15k seat stadiums?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There's no way that many Mvfc schools are averaging at least 15k per game over the last five or so years.
They all have at least 15k seat stadiums?

They have the capacity. They don't have to average that number until they are FBS so it doesn't matter. It also doesn't matter after they are FBS from all I've seen. xlolx

[clenz]

There's no way that many Mvfc schools are averaging at least 15k per game over the last five or so years.
They all have at least 15k seat stadiums?
Average can be fudged

YSU - 20,630 (no endzone seats)
SDSU - 19,340 (seats on three sides)
NDSU - 19,000 (dome locked)
MSU - 17,500 (no endzone seats)
WIU - 17,168 (no endzone seats)
UNI - 16,324 (bigger than Idaho still and can hold closer to 17,500 if needed but dome locked...vague rumor hints at possible seat additions?)
SIU - 15,000 (seats on 3 sides)
ISUr - 13,400 (no end zone seats)
ISUb - 12,800 (seats only on one side)
USD - 10,000 (completely dome locked)

Pretty easy for every MVFC school, sans USD, to play in it's current stadium at the FBS level. Would be real easy to do things to get the average criteria met. NDSU, SDSU, UNI, YSU, ISUr and SIU (before their recent slide) all had no issue selling 12-13k plus seats per game. To fudge that number only a few thousand seats would need to be "bought" for that average to be met for those not already there. I know UNI, ISUR, MSU and SIU wouldn't have issue making that happen if it needed too. Can't speak for WIU or ISUb.

Hell, a few years ago FAU "hosted" Michigan State at Ford Field in Detroit. Counted it as a home game and got 65K towards attendance average.

[RootinFerDukes]

When can we expect our Idaho Vandal overlords to infiltrate AGS and tell us they will dominate the subdivision day 1? :D

App state and ga southern fans were telling sun belt fans they'd dominate from day one. They said no you won't.
Then asu and gsu did in fact dominate on day one.
It humbled them I'm sure.

[RootinFerDukes]

They have the capacity. They don't have to average that number until they are FBS so it doesn't matter. It also doesn't matter after they are FBS from all I've seen. xlolx

Yep the 15k rule is a load of BS anyways. That much is obvious year after year.

[GManFromTigerland]

https://prophecynewsandviews.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/the-jig-is-up.jpeg

http://footballscoop.com/news/source-idaho-to-drop-to-fcs/

[clenz]

1. See the 400+ post thread about Idaho.
2. New Mexico is literally not mentioned
3. New Mexico is safely in the MWC
4. NMSU is literally not mentioned as a move down either, before you try that.

[ST_Lawson]

WIU - 17,168 (no endzone seats)
...
Can't speak for WIU or ISUb. (regarding actual attendance)

Yea, we can actually fit nearly 20k people if you include the surrounding hillsides (our record is 19,850 back in '73 and we probably had ~20k when we had a Rams/Bears scrimmage about 15 years ago) although officially we only have seating for 16,368. Actually getting over 15k fans would be difficult given the current situation with the university, enrollment, financial support, etc. It's possible that going FBS could increase attendance somewhat from the student population, but I don't think it'd get us close to the 15k (but as others have said, that hasn't been shown to be a thing that the NCAA seems to care much about).

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

A few questions and comments.

1. First, sincere best wishes to that program. Idaho has some cool and enthusiastic fans in spite of their team struggling perennially. If their fans don't pick up their toys and go home restarting the series with the Griz and some of the other Big Sky powers could be a lot of fun.

2. Just making a guess here, but earlier in this thread LFN was talking about what happens with Idaho as far as a transition to postseason eligibility. I'm guessing Idaho is announcing now because they will be using 2016 and 2017 to get under the FCS scholarship ceiling so that they will be eligible for the playoffs in 2018.

3. I'm kind of surprised that Idaho isn't going to try and go the independent route like UMass. Or perhaps the only reason UMass is still independent is that they haven't yet realized that even if the Big 12 takes Cincinatti they won't have a home in the FBS as long as they aren't willing to take their other sports out of the Atlantic 10?

4. In my mind, the most interesting question here is what happens with the Big Sky. 14 football members is waaaaaaaaaay too big for an FCS league.

[Nova09]

4. NMSU is literally not mentioned as a move down either, before you try that.

NMSU has been often mentioned, and I have it on good authority that if they do not find a good conference option soon it is happening.

[clenz]

NMSU has been often mentioned, and I have it on good authority that if they do not find a good conference option soon it is happening.
Where do you see NMSU linked as rumored in his post/link?

If they are rumored, that's one thing. Then he should post a link for them as well. His link is Idaho specific.

[Nova09]

Where do you see NMSU linked as rumored in his post/link?

If they are rumored, that's one thing. Then he should post a link for them as well. His link is Idaho specific.

I didnn't read his link I assumed you meant they weren't rumored at all. My bad, carry on.

[dgtw]

The attendance rule might as well be dropped if they aren't going to enforce it. Even if they did enforce it, it would be a big headache for other schools as you'd have part of a conference moving down. I do think it is a bunch of malarkey they let you host a game in another team's stadium just to get the attendance numbers. If I were a P5 school and someone asked to do that, I'd tell them to go fly a kite. Or if I agreed to it, they could take less than what I would normally pay.

How exactly does that work? Does the big school still get the ticket revenue? do they sell it in their season tickets even though it is a "road" game?

Idaho moving down opens up a huge can of worms with multiple questions.

How exactly will the transition work? Will they stay in the Sun Belt for the next two years, per their contract? Do they still get 85 scholarships? Will players be allowed to transfer now without penalty?

I agree the Big Sky needs to do some serious thinking. A 14 team league with no championship game is way too many. With the Ivy being above the fray of the playoffs and two leagues holding the Homer Plessy Bowl, the FCS could afford another autobid. The problem with a complete split would be the if the NCAA would allow each half to get an autobid in other sports.

This is also an issue for NMSU and Massachusetts. Both need a lot of help getting an independent schedule together. Idaho leaving gives them one less FBS possibility for home/home.

[Thumper 76]

When can we expect our Idaho Vandal overlords to infiltrate AGS and tell us they will dominate the subdivision day 1? :D

I would love to welcome our new overlords, and ask that they look upon us in favor so we may bask in their glow. :D :D :D

But seriously I do look forward to having a new fan base in the mix, that should be fun!

[clenz]

I didnn't read his link I assumed you meant they weren't rumored at all. My bad, carry on.
I was being technical with this noob.

[BEAR]

Shouldn't this thread be in the "Ins and Outs" of FCS category? xlolx

Or do we need to start an "Ups and Downs" of FCS category?

or are those two combined located in the "Champagne Room" already? xlolx

[melloware13]

Big Sky could do North and South divisions, similar to how CAA was prior to Hofstra and Northeastern being killed off. If I were in charge, I would go South (Cal Poly, UC Davis, Sac State, NAU, SUU, Weber, UNC) and North (PSU, EWU, Idaho, ISU, Montana, MSU, UND). That way you get 6 division games, 2 crossover games, and AQ goes to best conference record.

[clenz]

Big Sky could do North and South divisions, similar to how CAA was prior to Hofstra and Northeastern being killed off. If I were in charge, I would go South (Cal Poly, UC Davis, Sac State, NAU, SUU, Weber, UNC) and North (PSU, EWU, Idaho, ISU, Montana, MSU, UND). That way you get 6 division games, 2 crossover games, and AQ goes to best conference record.
Right, but that's a poor split of "traditional" powers and then, well, everyone else.

[kdinva]

Big Sky could do North and South divisions, similar to how CAA was prior to Hofstra and Northeastern being killed off. If I were in charge, I would go South (Cal Poly, UC Davis, Sac State, NAU, SUU, Weber, UNC) and North (PSU, EWU, Idaho, ISU, Montana, MSU, UND). That way you get 6 division games, 2 crossover games, and AQ goes to best conference record.

I like this idea.........FCS divisions should have geographic considerations first...

[kdinva]

someone fix the title of this thread......NMSU, not UNM.

[IBleedYellow]

Big Sky could do North and South divisions, similar to how CAA was prior to Hofstra and Northeastern being killed off. If I were in charge, I would go South (Cal Poly, UC Davis, Sac State, NAU, SUU, Weber, UNC) and North (PSU, EWU, Idaho, ISU, Montana, MSU, UND). That way you get 6 division games, 2 crossover games, and AQ goes to best conference record.

So you'd have the weak division, and then the strong division + UND?

No offense to any schools in the South division.

[Daytripper]

So you'd have the weak division, and then the strong division + UND?

No offense to any schools in the South division.

Cal Poly sacks up and plays well occasionally.

[clenz]

The attendance rule might as well be dropped if they aren't going to enforce it. Even if they did enforce it, it would be a big headache for other schools as you'd have part of a conference moving down. I do think it is a bunch of malarkey they let you host a game in another team's stadium just to get the attendance numbers. If I were a P5 school and someone asked to do that, I'd tell them to go fly a kite. Or if I agreed to it, they could take less than what I would normally pay.

How exactly does that work? Does the big school still get the ticket revenue? do they sell it in their season tickets even though it is a "road" game?
I don't remember the exact details of the game, but FAU treated Michigan State like Michigan State would a buy team. They got a guarantee plus a certain % of ticket sales and a ticket allotment. I think they got like 50K tickets to sell, a small guarantee and half of the gate/concessions....or something like that.



Idaho moving down opens up a huge can of worms with multiple questions.

How exactly will the transition work? Will they stay in the Sun Belt for the next two years, per their contract? Do they still get 85 scholarships? Will players be allowed to transfer now without penalty?1. I would bet they are announcing early to get the two year window out of the way. Technically FBS next two years, but reducing scholarships each year to FCS levels so that they can go full FCS playoff eligible by 2018. They are Sun Belt through end of 2017/2018 season. They could technically stay at 85, but I'm betting they are working to to be full FCS in 2018. I would bet transfer without penalty would be waived, though I'm not sure.


I agree the Big Sky needs to do some serious thinking. A 14 team league with no championship game is way too many. With the Ivy being above the fray of the playoffs and two leagues holding the Homer Plessy Bowl, the FCS could afford another autobid. The problem with a complete split would be the if the NCAA would allow each half to get an autobid in other sports.The formation of another FCS conference is an interesting way to look at it. You can't give the Big Sky two autos with out the Big Sky no longer existing as we know it. It would have to be a brand new football only conference (ala MVFC, CAA and PFL) and then "The Big Sky". Who do you tell "You're no longer Big Sky for football", especially when it comes to the full Big Sky members.



This is also an issue for NMSU and Massachusetts. Both need a lot of help getting an independent schedule together. Idaho leaving gives them one less FBS possibility for home/home.
I have a feeling UMASS is going to hold on as long as possible. EMU is going to act like they are fighting any idea of moving. I think those three (NMSU the other) is an interesting thing to watch.

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

How exactly will the transition work? Will they stay in the Sun Belt for the next two years, per their contract? Do they still get 85 scholarships? Will players be allowed to transfer now without penalty?

Someone on the Idaho message board is saying players will be allowed to transfer and play immediately at their new school. The poster did not say where this information came from, but seemed certain it was correct.

[SUUTbird]

Looking forward to Idaho coming back to the Big Sky and even though it would separate certain traditional members I think I north-south split is the best bet, the only other option I could see would be keeping the flagship members together and adding in the recent new teams. However that would mean EWU wouldn't be playing Montana every year and I don't see that happening.


So you'd have the weak division, and then the strong division + UND?

No offense to any schools in the South division.

None taken, traditionally the power teams of the conference would be in the North however SUU, Weber and UNC are improving and NAU and Cal Poly always seem to be decent

[RootinFerDukes]

Shouldn't this thread be in the "Ins and Outs" of FCS category? xlolx

Or do we need to start an "Ups and Downs" of FCS category?

or are those two combined located in the "Champagne Room" already? xlolx

Yep. I think a "welcome to Fcs: where you really belong" thread should be stickied.

[superman7515]

someone fix the title of this thread......NMSU, not UNM.

It isn't NMSU either though and Idaho already has a thread, just let this one fade into the abyss... Haha.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Merging with other ID thread.

[SUUTbird]

Just glanced over the Idaho Forum and holy **** I've never seen more delusional fans in my entire life. The way they are talking you would think that they belong in the Pac-12

[dgtw]

Just glanced over the Idaho Forum and holy **** I've never seen more delusional fans in my entire life. The way they are talking you would think that they belong in the Pac-12

I browsed their forum on Scout (is that the one you were talking about) along with the Sun Belt board on cnbbs. What an odd bunch. Apparently they will stop going to games as they are too good to play in the FCS. Someone on the Sun Belt board said AGS was having a circle jerk over this. From what I've seen, most on here seem to think t is a good idea and are welcoming them back to the Big Sky. A person on the Idaho board said they were the laughing stock of college football. Again, I disagree. Most things I have read seem to think t is the best thing for the program. I really do hate it for them they are having to drop down, but the reality is they cannot survive long term as an independent. They do not have the name and tradition BYU and Notre Dame or Army does.

[BisonFan02]

I browsed their forum on Scout (is that the one you were talking about) along with the Sun Belt board on cnbbs. What an odd bunch. Apparently they will stop going to games as they are too good to play in the FCS. Someone on the Sun Belt board said AGS was having a circle jerk over this. From what I've seen, most on here seem to think t is a good idea and are welcoming them back to the Big Sky. A person on the Idaho board said they were the laughing stock of college football. Again, I disagree. Most things I have read seem to think t is the best thing for the program. I really do hate it for them they are having to drop down, but the reality is they cannot survive long term as an independent. They do not have the name and tradition BYU and Notre Dame or Army does.

I fart in their general direction and piss on their delusions of grandeur. xlolx Sunbelt = Big Sky Sunbelt < MVFC

The Sun Belt is a larger geographical version of the Southland...except it is more expensive to participate and you can ask for a few more dollars to get the **** kicked out of you by an SEC school.

[Mattymc727]

I wish UMass would come back down. That was such a great rivalry. However after all the money they have blown, I feel like they would rather sink with the ship in FBS.

Although i suppose as an end state, coming back to the CAA is better than dropping football altogether considering the money spent.

[walliver]

I browsed their forum on Scout (is that the one you were talking about) along with the Sun Belt board on cnbbs. What an odd bunch. Apparently they will stop going to games as they are too good to play in the FCS. Someone on the Sun Belt board said AGS was having a circle jerk over this. From what I've seen, most on here seem to think t is a good idea and are welcoming them back to the Big Sky. A person on the Idaho board said they were the laughing stock of college football. Again, I disagree. Most things I have read seem to think t is the best thing for the program. I really do hate it for them they are having to drop down, but the reality is they cannot survive long term as an independent. They do not have the name and tradition BYU and Notre Dame or Army does.

I almost wonder if Idaho would be better transitioning "Villanova style"; i.e., drop FBS football and restart as FCS in a couple of years. It would be unfair to the players, but might help build interest in FCS football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"Oh no! We'll get wrecked in recruiting if we go FCS!"

Um, not exactly.

http://herosports.com/news/ncaa-fcs-mens-football/idahos-move-from-fbs-to-fcs-doesnt-faze-recruits-may-not-change-status-at-all-most-tell-hero-sports


"I talked to Coach Cink (offensive coordinator Kris Cinkovich) yesterday a little about (the FCS move). Honestly, I think it is a good move for them. I have traveled and watched a lot of practices, and have met a lot of players, and I was very impressed with Idaho and how hard they work, and really are focused on winning games. I think Idaho needs to move over (to the FCS) and when they do I think they will be much more successful. They are all great coaches and I really like the school. I was checking out the freshmen dorm rooms just yesterday. I plan to look very hard at all of my options and I am looking at everything that all of the schools have to offer. Four years is a long time, and I am taking it very seriously."

[nwFL Griz]

I would think the best way to split the Sky would be to go traditional Sky vs. more recently joined teams. Maybe see if the Big West or WCC would loan their name.

Big Sky
EWU
Idaho
ISU
Montana
MSU
NAU
Weber St

Big West
Cal Poly
North Dakota
Northern Colorado
Portland St
Sac St
SUU
UC Davis

I realize this messes with geography a bit, but in this case, I prefer tradition over geography.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I would think the best way to split the Sky would be to go traditional Sky vs. more recently joined teams. Maybe see if the Big West or WCC would loan their name.

Big Sky
EWU
Idaho
ISU
Montana
MSU
NAU
Weber St

Big West
Cal Poly
North Dakota
Northern Colorado
Portland St
Sac St
SUU
UC Davis

I realize this messes with geography a bit, but in this case, I prefer tradition over geography.

Splitting Portland State and EWU? Ouch!

[clenz]

I would think the best way to split the Sky would be to go traditional Sky vs. more recently joined teams. Maybe see if the Big West or WCC would loan their name.

Big Sky
EWU
Idaho
ISU
Montana
MSU
NAU
Weber St

Big West
Cal Poly
North Dakota
Northern Colorado
Portland St
Sac St
SUU
UC Davis

I realize this messes with geography a bit, but in this case, I prefer tradition over geography.
If UND fans are to be believed.....xeyebrowx...UND and Montana can't be split up

[F'N Hawks]

If UND fans are to be believed.....xeyebrowx...UND and Montana can't be split up

Where has that ever been stated regarding divisions of Big Sky?

[UNDColorado]

Where has that ever been stated regarding divisions of Big Sky?

Yeah I second this. Nobody has said this.

What tends to matter is academic profile of the institutions and Montana, MSU, Idaho and UND are similar profiles. Chances are they will not be broken up. The Big Sky likes the academic profile of UND and I know some of you will never admit that. I will take the commissioner's word over any of you. Add in a 7 win season in our second season and things are looking up for UND.

http://siouxfb.areavoices.com/2016/04/27/high-praise-to-und-from-big-sky-commish/

National Championship in Hockey doesn't hurt either :D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If UND fans are to be believed.....xeyebrowx...UND and Montana can't be split up

I think it was actually MSU but it was shown to be pretty full of holes anyway I think.

Also, as far as the name of a split conference for some reason I think the BSC might actually have some ties to the old WAC name if I remember correctly. Might be full of **** on that but whatever name really wouldn't matter too much I wouldn't think.

That is basically two FCS conferences under command and control of one entity. Don't know if that's gonna seen as a bad thing to the rest or not.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yeah I second this. Nobody has said this.

What tends to matter is academic profile of the institutions and Montana, MSU, Idaho and UND are similar profiles. Chances are they will not be broken up. The Big Sky likes the academic profile of UND and I know some of you will never admit that. I will take the commissioner's word over any of you. Add in a 7 win season in our second season and things are looking up for UND.

http://siouxfb.areavoices.com/2016/04/27/high-praise-to-und-from-big-sky-commish/

National Championship in Hockey doesn't hurt either :D

I also sort of remember someone stating it I think so it might have been put forth earlier in this thread or another one.

Hockey thing, I don't think it hurts anything but to the rest of the conference I don't think it means anything much really. Your other points are pretty solid fare though.xthumbsupx

Something will have to give with the divisions and we'll just have to wait and see what truths hold the most water.

[F'N Hawks]

I think it was actually MSU but it was shown to be pretty full of holes anyway I think.

Also, as far as the name of a split conference for some reason I think the BSC might actually have some ties to the old WAC name if I remember correctly. Might be full of **** on that but whatever name really wouldn't matter too much I wouldn't think.

That is basically two FCS conferences under command and control of one entity. Don't know if that's gonna seen as a bad thing to the rest or not.

Right now the Big Sky has the "rival" thing going on. UND has UNC and MSU. That is the extent of that.

Rivals could change in heartbeat for a team like UND since there aren't any. The splitting up Montana/Montana State/UND came from the Idaho contract language a couple years ago. More of a being in the same overall conference, not rivals or divisions.

[ccd494]

I think the autobid thing is overblown. Name one scenario in which this 14 team Big Sky doesn't get two teams in.

[BisonFan02]

Right now the Big Sky has the "rival" thing going on. UND has UNC and MSU. That is the extent of that.

Rivals could change in heartbeat for a team like UND since there aren't any. The splitting up Montana/Montana State/UND came from the Idaho contract language a couple years ago. More of a being in the same overall conference, not rivals or divisions.

Grand Forks to Bozeman....807 miles
Fargo to Youngstown....1050 miles

I'll let you deduce where I'm going with that. xlolx

[UNDColorado]

I also sort of remember someone stating it I think so it might have been put forth earlier in this thread or another one.

Hockey thing, I don't think it hurts anything but to the rest of the conference I don't think it means anything much really. Your other points are pretty solid fare though.xthumbsupx

Something will have to give with the divisions and we'll just have to wait and see what truths hold the most water.

Agreed, let the speculation begin. There seems to be a few viable options here.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Right now the Big Sky has the "rival" thing going on. UND has UNC and MSU. That is the extent of that.

Rivals could change in heartbeat for a team like UND since there aren't any. The splitting up Montana/Montana State/UND came from the Idaho contract language a couple years ago. More of a being in the same overall conference, not rivals or divisions.

Yep, that was it. Thanks for the refresher.xthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think the autobid thing is overblown. Name one scenario in which this 14 team Big Sky doesn't get two teams in.

Call me back when 9-2 Maine, with losses to an FBS school and the CAA champions, gets held out of the playoffs so that de-facto 8-3 Big Sky South champions Northern Arizona make the field.

[F'N Hawks]

Grand Forks to Bozeman....807 miles
Fargo to Youngstown....1050 miles

I'll let you deduce where I'm going with that. xlolx

What's your point?

[clenz]

What's your point?
You're closest "rival" is essentially the same distance as the furthest MVFC game.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

What's your point?

I assume it is your closest vs. NDSU's farthest? I don't really get it though either.

We have lots of travel in the BSC. Just the way it is. I can drive at interstate speed going East for 8 or 9 hrs. and never get out of Montana. xlolx

[BisonFan02]

You're closest "rival" is essentially the same distance as the furthest MVFC game.

This and YSU is probably better served going east instead.

[clenz]

Can't even get the drop back to FCS right.

Technical difficulties have delayed the presser.

[BisonFan02]

I assume it is your closest vs. NDSU's farthest? I don't really get it though either.

We have lots of travel in the BSC. Just the way it is. I can drive at interstate speed going East for 8 or 9 hrs. and never get out of Montana. xlolx

The point is the fact that they are traveling in entirely the wrong direction for "rivals".

[mvemjsunpx]

I think the autobid thing is overblown. Name one scenario in which this 14 team Big Sky doesn't get two teams in.

Right. 1998 was the only year I recall where the Big Sky didn't get an at-large.

[clenz]

From the presser....



UI did not ask for deadline extension, Staben said the Big Sky was considering other members and offer provided Idaho with guaranteed spot.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

From the presser....

Wow! NDSU? USD? Who could it be?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The point is the fact that they are traveling in entirely the wrong direction for "rivals".

Yeah, it was missed (the point) cuz I was dealing with the world we are currently in.;)

[mvemjsunpx]

Wow! NDSU? USD? Who could it be?

Pretty sure that's referring to NMSU.

[jacksfan29]

Wow! NDSU? USD? Who could it be?

As stated above, they are likely talking about NMSU. A school that is also without a FB conference soon, and a school that is considering a BSC offer and a drop down to FCS. What is interesting about that, if NMSU joins who goes? Or do you have lopsided divisions, south with 8 north 7. Interesting stuff.

Though I have also seen the rumor that Grand Canyon is talking with the BSC. How do you feel about that one...? Looking at you Montana, Montana State fans.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I reopened registration for one day so anyone that was waiting or trying...the window is open for a short period and it will likely close again soon.

[nwFL Griz]

Splitting Portland State and EWU? Ouch!

And? Like I said, I prefer tradition over geography. PSU has only been in the conference since the mid 90's. Splitting it 7 and 7 means they get bumped. Now if the Sky adds another team, then PSU goes back to Sky and new team goes Big West.

[F'N Hawks]

You're closest "rival" is essentially the same distance as the furthest MVFC game.

Yes, most everyone is fully aware that the Big Sky is spread out.

In an ideal world, a spot would open up in the MVFC/Summit and UND would join those two conferences. Hasn't happened so we get what we have. I am not naive, I understand how the U.S. is laid out and where Grand Forks sits. But the Big Sky has been a good conference for UND and I am good with it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Big West
Cal Poly
North Dakota
Northern Colorado
Portland St
Sac St
SUU
UC Davis

I realize this messes with geography a bit, but in this case, I prefer tradition over geography.


And? Like I said, I prefer tradition over geography. PSU has only been in the conference since the mid 90's. Splitting it 7 and 7 means they get bumped. Now if the Sky adds another team, then PSU goes back to Sky and new team goes Big West.

You'd literally be replacing four schools that would plausibly be within driving distance (charitably being called 8 hours away, Idaho, Idaho State, Montana, EWU) and replacing them with four guaranteed flights (Poly, Davis, NoCo, UND). If you wanted to devise a recipe for Portland State disbanding football, likely an arrangement like you're describing would put that on the fast track.

[dbackjon]

So you'd have the weak division, and then the strong division + UND?

No offense to any schools in the South division.

NAU has a winning record against that group of teams each of the last four years 4-1 last year

Against:
Montana: 2-1
EWU: 2-0
Weber: 2-0
Portland: 2-0
UND: 2-1
ISU: 2-0
MSU: 1-1

2015: 4-1
2014: 2-1
2013: 3-1
2012: 4-0

[dbackjon]

I would think the best way to split the Sky would be to go traditional Sky vs. more recently joined teams. Maybe see if the Big West or WCC would loan their name.

Big Sky
EWU
Idaho
ISU
Montana
MSU
NAU
Weber St

Big West
Cal Poly
North Dakota
Northern Colorado
Portland St
Sac St
SUU
UC Davis

I realize this messes with geography a bit, but in this case, I prefer tradition over geography.


I like that. And keep cross-over games like NAU-SUU

[dbackjon]

As stated above, they are likely talking about NMSU. A school that is also without a FB conference soon, and a school that is considering a BSC offer and a drop down to FCS. What is interesting about that, if NMSU joins who goes? Or do you have lopsided divisions, south with 8 north 7. Interesting stuff.

Though I have also seen the rumor that Grand Canyon is talking with the BSC. How do you feel about that one...? Looking at you Montana, Montana State fans.


No GCU.

[wapiti]

Grand Forks to Bozeman....807 miles
Fargo to Youngstown....1050 miles

I'll let you deduce where I'm going with that. xlolx

From Grand Forks to San Luis Obispo....2016 miles
So what is your point again. xlolx:D

[dgtw]

From what I have gathered, they will join the Big sky for football in 2018 and will be playoff eligible once they reach 63 scholarships. I read on an Idaho board they are at 71 right now so it shouldn't be too hard to get down to the magic number.

[TheKingpin28]

From Wikipedia. It cracked me up. Read the last "paragraph" of the top part.http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22381&stc=1

[ursus arctos horribilis]

From what I have gathered, they will join the Big sky for football in 2018 and will be playoff eligible once they reach 63 scholarships. I read on an Idaho board they are at 71 right now so it shouldn't be too hard to get down to the magic number.

Yeah, we were actually discussing their scholarship levels a couple months back on this thread I think and the fact that they are already unable to fund the full, or close to full level makes this transition pretty easy because whether their fans realize it...they were already here.

[kdinva]

This is interesting.......this move could/will cost the Vandals lots of $$$

http://www.fbschedules.com/2016/04/idaho-vandals-drop-fbs-fcs-2018/

[kdinva]

I would think the moderators there would remove that "inept" sentence......or not?



From Wikipedia. It cracked me up. Read the last "paragraph" of the top part.http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22381&stc=1

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

This is interesting.......this move could/will cost the Vandals lots of $$$

http://www.fbschedules.com/2016/04/idaho-vandals-drop-fbs-fcs-2018/

Temple has a game scheduled with Idaho coming in the next 2-3 years. Obviously, our athletic department needs a plan B.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Temple has a game scheduled with Idaho coming in the next 2-3 years. Obviously, our athletic department needs a plan B.

*ahem*

http://www.battaly.com/hook/RT_3803_back_front_lgt600ini.jpg

[dgtw]

Their 2018-9 schedules are kind of rough. Once they get past that, they only have one or two scheduled. I guess they could still play those if they wanted to and get above market rates for FBS-FCS games. They may be able to get out of contracts for games further away without having to pay.

[RootinFerDukes]

This is not the first drop to I-AA/FCS in NCAA history. It is the first in 37 years since a group of schools and conferences did so in 1981. Christ, do people not have Google?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

*ahem*

http://www.battaly.com/hook/RT_3803_back_front_lgt600ini.jpg

I'm thinking more like this....
http://r.ddmcdn.com/w_622/u_0/gif/bucknell-bison-625x446.jpg

Bucknell's name came up a few months ago with a few legit Temple people. Since we don't have an FCS game schedules for that year, Idaho won't be it, the Bison seem like a logical choice. I have to believe our AD has been on this since the New Year. Bucknell's name came up in mid, to late January....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

This is not the first drop to I-AA/FCS in NCAA history. It is the first in 37 years since a group of schools and conferences did so in 1981. Christ, do people not have Google?

That's true. But a lot has happened in those 37 years. This is definitely a different era with drastically different hurdles.

Division 1 in general was in it's infancy still when the IL dropped down. Now D1 is a cluster F mess...

[PAllen]

*ahem*

http://www.battaly.com/hook/RT_3803_back_front_lgt600ini.jpg

WTF is that? And don't you dare try to call it a certain non-descript fictional hawk variety!

[clenz]

Technically Indiana State went from a 1A to 1AA when the MVC dropped football post 1985

[NY Crusader 2010]

Technically Indiana State went from a 1A to 1AA when the MVC dropped football post 1985

Is that around the time that Wichita State folded up the tent?

[Sitting Bull]

This is not the first drop to I-AA/FCS in NCAA history. It is the first in 37 years since a group of schools and conferences did so in 1981. Christ, do people not have Google?

All of those conferences and schools in 1981 were pushed down by the NCAA, not of their own choice.

Idaho is the first I can recall who independently made the decision.

It's a smart call, no brainier for them.

[RootinFerDukes]

All of those conferences and schools in 1981 were pushed down by the NCAA, not of their own choice.

Idaho is the first I can recall who independently made the decision.

It's a smart call, no brainier for them.

Thanks for the clarification. Well voluntary or not, people are saying it's the first ever, which couldn't be further from the truth.
First in a while? Yeah sure.

[SUUTbird]

NAU has a winning record against that group of teams each of the last four years 4-1 last year

Against:
Montana: 2-1
EWU: 2-0
Weber: 2-0
Portland: 2-0
UND: 2-1
ISU: 2-0
MSU: 1-1

2015: 4-1
2014: 2-1
2013: 3-1
2012: 4-0

Though not as good as NAU overall SUU has an 11-8 record against that group of team as well. We do have winning records against several of those teams and have broken even against others, the only team we have a losing record against is Eastern Washington over the last four seasons.

Montana: 1-1
EWU: 1-2
Weber: 3-1
PSU: 2-1
UND: 1-1
ISU: 1-1
MSU: 2-1

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Thanks for the clarification. Well voluntary or not, people are saying it's the first ever, which couldn't be further from the truth.
First in a while? Yeah sure.

There was a split, some were told to go in this line, others were told to go in that line. This is completely different than the reshuffling that went on back then. There was a Universtity Division and a College Division and when they decided to use numberic divisions colleges were separated by the NCAA (I think without much choice) as to what they would be going forward.

This is a first. It has happened but not like this.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Though not as good as NAU overall SUU has an 11-8 record against that group of team as well. We do have winning records against several of those teams and have broken even against others, the only team we have a losing record against is Eastern Washington over the last four seasons.

Montana: 1-1
EWU: 1-2
Weber: 3-1
PSU: 2-1
UND: 1-1
ISU: 1-1
MSU: 2-1

I'm not sure if it was meant that it was a last couple of years thing but if it helps you guys to use that then so be it. As a new BSC member yours is much more true though.

I didn't agree with the original comment in the first place but in looking at recent history (last 10-20 yrs) he had it correct as far as programs go.

[Laker]

Is that around the time that Wichita State folded up the tent?

1986 was the last season for Shocker football. They lost all three bowl games that they played.

Oct. 2, 1970 was the devastating plane crash.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I'm thinking more like this....
http://r.ddmcdn.com/w_622/u_0/gif/bucknell-bison-625x446.jpg

Bucknell's name came up a few months ago with a few legit Temple people. Since we don't have an FCS game schedules for that year, Idaho won't be it, the Bison seem like a logical choice. I have to believe our AD has been on this since the New Year. Bucknell's name came up in mid, to late January....

Great idea. Aside from Gettysburg, Temple has been Bucknell's most frequent opponent outside Patriot League opponents and Cornell. Bucknell also has the edge in the series, 20-13-8, but it has not been played since 1970. A game on a big stage in Philly, a Bucknell alum hotbed, would be awesome for the Bison fb program.

[RootinFerDukes]

There was a split, some were told to go in this line, others were told to go in that line. This is completely different than the reshuffling that went on back then. There was a Universtity Division and a College Division and when they decided to use numberic divisions colleges were separated by the NCAA (I think without much choice) as to what they would be going forward.

This is a first. It has happened but not like this.

That last line is kind of what I said. This is the first voluntary move to Fcs.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Staben speaks. Eloquently. On the choices available to him.

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2016/04/29/idaho-president-explains-why-his-university-abandoning-football-arms-race-essay

Seriously, a great read, especially for you Big Sky folks.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2016/04/what_the_big_tens_no-fcs_oppon.html

B1G: "No to FCS games"

*Idaho transitions to FCS*

B1G: "Um that's too hard we'll play the game, grandfathered in"

[Laker]

http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2016/04/what_the_big_tens_no-fcs_oppon.html

B1G: "No to FCS games"

*Idaho transitions to FCS*

B1G: "Um that's too hard we'll play the game, grandfathered in"

I'm not going to put the cart before the horse, but New Mexico State is on the Gopher schedule for 2018 and 2019. I'll be interested to see what the Aggies decide to do in the future.

[mango43]

http://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/index.ssf/2016/04/what_the_big_tens_no-fcs_oppon.html

B1G: "No to FCS games"

*Idaho transitions to FCS*

B1G: "Um that's too hard we'll play the game, grandfathered in"

Yeah, that's not what the Big 10 said




Mark Rudner, the Big Ten's Senior Associate Commissioner for Television Administration, told PennLive on Friday that playing the game is one option, but added that the conference has had talks with Penn State about finding a new opponent.
"We asked then to try and move it off [the schedule], and replace it with someone else, but at the end of the day, if they can't do that, or the economics just don't work, then we can consider it grandfathered in," Rudner said.
He added the same philosophy will be used in all cases where a future Big Ten team's non-conference opponent moves from FBS to FCS. Idaho is scheduled to play a different Big Ten team, Indiana, in 2021 and 2022.



Also, there was this little nugget


According to FBSchedules.com, the contract between the Lions and Vandals had no stipulations but did include a $1.45 million breach of contract penalty, though it is not clear if a move from FBS to FCS would be included in the terms of the deal.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It will probably take a couple more years for the Big 10 to rescind this idiotic rule, but in the end, if it's not going to be "enforced", then what's the point?

[BisonFan02]

I'm thinking more like this....
http://r.ddmcdn.com/w_622/u_0/gif/bucknell-bison-625x446.jpg

Bucknell's name came up a few months ago with a few legit Temple people. Since we don't have an FCS game schedules for that year, Idaho won't be it, the Bison seem like a logical choice. I have to believe our AD has been on this since the New Year. Bucknell's name came up in mid, to late January....

Wrong Bison......#BringNDSUtoPhilly!

[mango43]

It will probably take a couple more years for the Big 10 to rescind this idiotic rule, but in the end, if it's not going to be "enforced", then what's the point?

I'm not arguing if the rule should or should not be in place, but when the game was signed Idaho was an FBS school, so yeah, it makes sense to still play it.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That last line is kind of what I said. This is the first voluntary move to Fcs.

Well, it came off a little different in the wording I guess but we appear to be on the same page then.xthumbsupx

[dbackjon]

I'm not sure if it was meant that it was a last couple of years thing but if it helps you guys to use that then so be it. As a new BSC member yours is much more true though.

I didn't agree with the original comment in the first place but in looking at recent history (last 10-20 yrs) he had it correct as far as programs go.

Well, since no one is playing that played more than 4 years ago, what happened before is pretty irrelevant to today.

[dbackjon]

This is interesting.......this move could/will cost the Vandals lots of $$$

http://www.fbschedules.com/2016/04/idaho-vandals-drop-fbs-fcs-2018/

It won't cost them anything. Maybe the Florida Game.

Rest have some type of out clause, or Idaho could say - we will still play them.

I do expect the Wyoming and SJSU series to go away - NMSU needs games, so they could easily take them over.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Well, since no one is playing that played more than 4 years ago, what happened before is pretty irrelevant to today.

What? We've played in conference for a long time Jon. Either I misunderstand you or you are misunderstanding me.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Are you saying as a conference now? If so then I think I am caught up. We should probably use the full terms records then I would think?

[dbackjon]

What? We've played in conference for a long time Jon. Either I misunderstand you or you are misunderstanding me.


Players. The kids that strap up and play the game.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Players. The kids that strap up and play the game.

OK. xlolx

[Catbooster]

This is interesting.......this move could/will cost the Vandals lots of $$$

http://www.fbschedules.com/2016/04/idaho-vandals-drop-fbs-fcs-2018/

Or it could make the Vandals a lot of money. I don't know how all of those contracts are written, but it may be that all Idaho has to do is tell those teams that Idaho wants to play the game, and if the opponent wants to (or their conference tells them they have to) cancel the game, the other teams have to buy out the Vandals. I suspect that they will end up playing a few of them and several will be cancelled by mutual agreement.

It sounds like getting down to 63 scholarships will be relatively easy if they're already at 71. What do you do about the coaches' salaries? From what I read, Petrino's salary is about $800k and I'm sure his assistants are payed more than typical for FCS teams. Will it affect any other (women's) sports? They probably have excess scholarships for women now, but I'm not sure whether that will be an issue. They said in the press conference that they are not dropping any women's sports.

Regardless, I think they made the right choice. I suspect that it will be a good move for them once their emotions settle down (but their message board is pretty entertaining right now).

Welcome back, Idaho.

[Thumper 76]

What's funny after reading their message board is the lack of material to read. For how high of regard they hold themselves you would think they would have at least the traffic that the higher up FCS teams have


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hammerhead]

And they were just starting to turn things around again with 4 wins last season. :) Lots of 1-win seasons going back to 2002 (as far back as they go at espn.com) and their best year was 6 wins in 2006.

[UAalum72]

And they were just starting to turn things around again with 4 wins last season. :) Lots of 1-win seasons going back to 2002 (as far back as they go at espn.com) and their best year was 6 wins in 2006.

32-24 while in the Big West from 1996-2000 (9-3 in 1998) though 11 of those wins were against I-AA teams. Fell off when they moved to the Sun Belt and a mostly I-A schedule
http://college-football-results.com/f/idaho.htm

[RootinFerDukes]

And they were just starting to turn things around again with 4 wins last season. :) Lots of 1-win seasons going back to 2002 (as far back as they go at espn.com) and their best year was 6 wins in 2006.

If you don't know about it, I recommend using www.cfbdatawarehouse.com. It is the best tool for looking up the history of programs that I know of on the internet.

[Casey_Orourke]

All of those conferences and schools in 1981 were pushed down by the NCAA, not of their own choice.

Idaho is the first I can recall who independently made the decision.

It's a smart call, no brainier for them.

According to Wikipedia, North Texas also demoted to 1-AA by the NCAA in 1978 (?) because of mounting debt after Hayden Fry left till 1995 when donors bought up enough blocks of tickets to spike the average attendance enough to re-qualify for 1-A membership.

[Casey_Orourke]

Now Football Scoop is saying now that Idaho is safely in the Big Sky fold, the conference is targeting New Mexico State for membership.

http://footballscoop.com/news/idaho-now-in-the-fold-the-big-sky-is-reportedly-going-after-new-mexico-state-too/

[RootinFerDukes]

Now Football Scoop is saying now that Idaho is safely in the Big Sky fold, the conference is targeting New Mexico State for membership.

http://footballscoop.com/news/idaho-now-in-the-fold-the-big-sky-is-reportedly-going-after-new-mexico-state-too/

With Idaho, isn't the big sky now 14 members? That's tied for the largest conference in D1, without the P5 payday to financially justify such a large league.
Why would they have any need to add nmsu state? They bring less to the table than Idaho and what's the next closest school? Nau or unc a whole big state away?
15 members would be unnecessary and at that point break up into two smaller regional conferences and call it a day.
IMO, we don't need to be throwing a life raft to every flailing fbs program. The CAA better not entertain this crap for anything but former members.

[Laker]

Now Football Scoop is saying now that Idaho is safely in the Big Sky fold, the conference is targeting New Mexico State for membership.

http://footballscoop.com/news/idaho-now-in-the-fold-the-big-sky-is-reportedly-going-after-new-mexico-state-too/

They talked about NM State would be the 15th member and they would have to add another. They mentioned NDSU and SDSU- those two won't split up and they won't take both. I doubt if they even have the desire to join.

[Bisonator]

They talked about NM State would be the 15th member and they would have to add another. They mentioned NDSU and SDSU- those two won't split up and they won't take both. I doubt if they even have the desire to join.
No chance. The BSC is going to have to split. Way too many teams and the geographic area is already unbearable.

[Hammerhead]

NDSU and SDSU would win most of the conference championships in every sport if they were in the Big Sky which is why they didn't want us in the first place. :)

[clenz]

NMSU needs a baseball home.

They seem like a MVFC team with finding a Summit or MVC home...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the Big Sky takes on NMSU, wouldn't they have to be looking at 1 more school to even things out....?

[clenz]

If the Big Sky takes on NMSU, wouldn't they have to be looking at 1 more school to even things out....?
Where's the coming from?

From west to east here are the options
San Diego - will they ever "man up" to scholarships. Seems like the best...only... logical fit. What does that do to the PFL?
ALL SOUTHLAND SCHOOLS - not going to get them out of the SLC and I can't imagine the Big Sky wants them
ALL SWAC SCHOOLS - not going to get them out of the SWAC and I can't imagine the Big Sky wants them
Missouri State isn't going to happenSouth Dakota - can't see them leaving SDSU/NDSU, especially not for the footprint and lack of rivals the Big Sky offers
South Dakota State - not leaving NDSU and the pair isn't going to leave the Summit/MVFC
North Dakota State - not leaving NDSU and the pair isn't going to leave the Summit/MVFC
Missouri State - they are FBS or bust when it comes to a move. They aren't leaving the coziness of the MVC for what the Big Sky is
Drake - AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *deep breath* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Northern Iowa - see Drake but for different reasons that are more closely MSU related

After that you're into ****ing Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, etc...

If the Big Sky really wants 16 they better somehow talk San Diego into offering scholarships or let them play Big Sky ball with zero scholarships but we know that won't happen. We know how San Diego likes to hide how bad they are behind their gaudy PFL record.

Look at the map of FCS teams. They don't have an option https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?msa=0&mid=1wZjpvMmaDiOZ_LHCU1Q3U2OCUU0


I get what the Big Sky is doing, but they are strangling themselves. Let's pretend they add San Diego and New Mexico State, who the hell are they playing OOC? NDSU, SDSU, USD and UNI only have about 8 open dates between them in the OOC schedule, and 3 of those schools won't be bought for sure and I doubt the fourth would be.

They will be forced into the Southland issue of 1 FBS game and a sub D1 near every year to fill their schedules. Then for any other OOC game pray someone is willing to work a home and home or play another Big Sky team as OOC. Smart athletic departments will see how strangled Big Sky teams are for OOC games and use it against them for scheduling leverage.

[Bisonator]

If the Big Sky takes on NMSU, wouldn't they have to be looking at 1 more school to even things out....?

Or kick UND to the curb? Probably not but it would make more sense then adding more schools.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Where's the coming from?

From west to east here are the options
San Diego - will they ever "man up" to scholarships. Seems like the best...only... logical fit. What does that do to the PFL?
ALL SOUTHLAND SCHOOLS - not going to get them out of the SLC and I can't imagine the Big Sky wants them

snip

Pretty good analysis. Are the Southland schools as loyal to the conference as you think?

Another possibility, though possibly remote, is a Cal school restarting football, like UCSB, CS-Fullerton, or Pacific.

[DFW HOYA]

Pretty good analysis. Are the Southland schools as loyal to the conference as you think?


There's an interesting topic there--conference loyalty. Top of the list: Ivy, Big 10, and SEC. (FWIW, the ACC imposes a $50 million exit fee on its loyal members. The SEC exit fee is $0. The last school to take them up on the offer was Tulane in 1966 and they've regretted it ever since.)

The least loyal? The WAC.

[clenz]

Pretty good analysis. Are the Southland schools as loyal to the conference as you think?

Another possibility, though possibly remote, is a Cal school restarting football, like UCSB, CS-Fullerton, or Pacific.
I have no idea if the Southland schools are loyal, but even if they weren't which of them are mutually attractive?
SFA's basketball program is attractive and the SLC/Big Sky are similar in stature.
For any other school it football would be an even move. Baseball would be hurt. Basketball adds nothing to the Big Sky Would the SLC keep a "spurned lover" in conference for baseball?
Travel costs, compared to what they are used too, would sky rocket. How many SLC programs are willing to do that?
What SLC teams would The Big Sky want? SFA? SHSU? ACU? UIW? HBU? The footprint issue becomes very real.
Loyal or not is that potential relationship worth it for both sides?

Another California school might be their best option. I know Twentysix, a couple weeks ago, pointed to UC-SD (or SB, don't remember) exploring the idea of football.

The only other thing that potentially makes sense is UND leaving for the Summit/MVFC. That seems like a pretty hard pill for UND to swallow with how things have gone the last decade

[clenz]

Or kick UND to the curb? Probably not but it would make more sense then adding more schools.
I don't know that they can "boot them" but they can probably make it "attractive" to leave - waive exit fees, keep payouts from NCAA shares as normal until they expire per normal, etc...

Couple that with a Summit and MVFC invite and it may be the Big Sky's best option.

I still think NMSU is going to fight to hold on to the FBS "dream"

[ursus arctos horribilis]

What's funny after reading their message board is the lack of material to read. For how high of regard they hold themselves you would think they would have at least the traffic that the higher up FCS teams have


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was my very first thought as well. I couldn't believe how low the flow of traffic/posts was there. If you went down like 10 htreads the last post was 10 or 12 days ago.

I know there are a lot of FCS message boards that are also pretty low flow but man if you are FBS you have to at lest compare with the top of FCS a little bit. I know they have some decent posters somewhere and I do hope they show up here at some point because I think this board shows a good thing about FCS. Community.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I have no idea if the Southland schools are loyal, but even if they weren't which of them are mutually attractive?
SFA's basketball program is attractive and the SLC/Big Sky are similar in stature.
For any other school it football would be an even move. Baseball would be hurt. Basketball adds nothing to the Big Sky Would the SLC keep a "spurned lover" in conference for baseball?
Travel costs, compared to what they are used too, would sky rocket. How many SLC programs are willing to do that?
What SLC teams would The Big Sky want? SFA? SHSU? ACU? UIW? HBU? The footprint issue becomes very real.
Loyal or not is that potential relationship worth it for both sides?

Another California school might be their best option. I know Twentysix, a couple weeks ago, pointed to UC-SD (or SB, don't remember) exploring the idea of football.

The only other thing that potentially makes sense is UND leaving for the Summit/MVFC. That seems like a pretty hard pill for UND to swallow with how things have gone the last decade

Is the SFA basketball program really attractive now without Underwood?

[Laker]

I don't know that they can "boot them" but they can probably make it "attractive" to leave - waive exit fees, keep payouts from NCAA shares as normal until they expire per normal, etc...

Couple that with a Summit and MVFC invite and it may be the Big Sky's best option.

I still think NMSU is going to fight to hold on to the FBS "dream"

I don't know what UND fans feel about this, but wouldn't it be a lot better to be with the old NCC schools for both geographic and rivalry reasons?

UNC was always the most distant NCC team- are they pretty happy in the Big Sky or would they move over? I haven't talked to a UNC fan in a long time.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

With Idaho, isn't the big sky now 14 members? That's tied for the largest conference in D1, without the P5 payday to financially justify such a large league.
Why would they have any need to add nmsu state? They bring less to the table than Idaho and what's the next closest school? Nau or unc a whole big state away?
15 members would be unnecessary and at that point break up into two smaller regional conferences and call it a day.
IMO, we don't need to be throwing a life raft to every flailing fbs program. The CAA better not entertain this crap for anything but former members.

I don't know what else has been said along the way here as I read but the BSC is not normally one to throw life rafts. This has been proven a few times in the past. I would imagine that there is something we might yet know about that may make things look different and will justify what the office is trying to do. FWIW, I'm not big on this large conference at all.

[clenz]

Is the SFA basketball program really attractive now without Underwood?

To be seen, but the coach before Underwood was building something nice before he was poached.

[taper]

UND's admins need to swallow their pride and join the Summit. It really is the best for everyone. Their recent decision to drop baseball makes them a lot less attractive though, Summit needs more baseball teams. Northern Colorado is now just 1 of 2 BSC schools with baseball, I wonder if the Summit could make a push for them to join as all sports? Instant travel partner for Denver and they rejoin old rivals from the NCC. UND+UNC brings the Summit up to 6 football teams, which is enough for a conference autobid. Would prefer 9 total but we might be able to get there eventually. Southern Utah used to be a full member, Eastern Illinois was full and is still associate. Less likely either would jump but they'd be accepted. We'd never get the Montanas by themselves, but if UND+UNC moved and NMSU join BSC, any shot at all? The MVFC would be put in a bad position if the Summit sponsors FB, they'd be down to 5 and Youngstown might leave and drop it to 4. I'm sure the Summit would accept any that wanted to join, but I doubt any would leave the MVC. They're a good geographic fit for any MAC teams that drop to FCS. There are so many possibilities that open up if even 3-6 FBS drop to FCS.

[jacksfan29]

NMSU needs a baseball home.

They seem like a MVFC team with finding a Summit or MVC home...

Can you imagine the screams coming from the eastern MVFC schools if NMSU to the MVFC was proposed?

[chrisattsu]

Pretty good analysis. Are the Southland schools as loyal to the conference as you think?

Another possibility, though possibly remote, is a Cal school restarting football, like UCSB, CS-Fullerton, or Pacific.

I don't think SLC schools are loyal to the conference as much as there are not many options for them. Look at the potential conferences with Texas footprints
SLC- Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana
SWAC- Across the south, but HBCU
WAC- (non-football) from Deep South Texas to Seattle

Other nearby conferences-
Summit- (non football)- Oral Roberts is closest.
MVFC- Missouri State is the closest.

Sam Houston, Lamar, and SF Austin are in the eastern part of the state. There is not much gained by moving out those conferences.
The same discussion comes up on the D2 board when members of the Texas-based Lone Star Conference look at moving up. There is really nowhere for them to go.

[clenz]

Can you imagine the screams coming from the eastern MVFC schools if NMSU to the MVFC was proposed?Added depth to the MVC would cancel that out right quick.

[clenz]

UND's admins need to swallow their pride and join the Summit. It really is the best for everyone. Their recent decision to drop baseball makes them a lot less attractive though, Summit needs more baseball teams. Northern Colorado is now just 1 of 2 BSC schools with baseball, I wonder if the Summit could make a push for them to join as all sports? Instant travel partner for Denver and they rejoin old rivals from the NCC. UND+UNC brings the Summit up to 6 football teams, which is enough for a conference autobid. Would prefer 9 total but we might be able to get there eventually. Southern Utah used to be a full member, Eastern Illinois was full and is still associate. Less likely either would jump but they'd be accepted. We'd never get the Montanas by themselves, but if UND+UNC moved and NMSU join BSC, any shot at all? The MVFC would be put in a bad position if the Summit sponsors FB, they'd be down to 5 and Youngstown might leave and drop it to 4. I'm sure the Summit would accept any that wanted to join, but I doubt any would leave the MVC. They're a good geographic fit for any MAC teams that drop to FCS. There are so many possibilities that open up if even 3-6 FBS drop to FCS.
Summit isn't starting their own league.

MVFC, even if this magical league NDSU fans cream themselves thinking about starts, would be at 6. Why would the MVFC at 6 be worse off than the Wet Dream League? Because you could hypothetically pull SUU from full membership in the Big Sky? What makes you think UNC wants to leave the Big Sky?

[F'N Hawks]

If their THERE was a spot for football UND would already be in the Summit. As far as baseball goes, if it was up to every coach in the league UND would already be in it. Instead, they lose their program due to exorbitant expenses. Idiots.

IMO, there just needs to be some slight shifting in the next few years and it will happen for the UND and the MVFC/Summit. Makes too much sense.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

there

[F'N Hawks]

there

I'm usually very conscience of using the wright one. Will dew better next time.

[taper]

Summit isn't starting their own league.

MVFC, even if this magical league NDSU fans cream themselves thinking about starts, would be at 6. Why would the MVFC at 6 be worse off than the Wet Dream League? Because you could hypothetically pull SUU from full membership in the Big Sky? What makes you think UNC wants to leave the Big Sky?

This only comes into play if the BSC keeps adding teams and requires some sort of split. I'll admit I mis-counted in my post, the MVFC would be at 6 if the Summit teams left, but YSU could bolt at any time regardless of what happens out west. 6 isn't good long term anyway. This really isn't that crazy of an idea, chances are very good more FBS than Idaho drop down in the next 10 years and they have to find a home somewhere.

[POD Knows]

I'm usually very conscience of using the wright one. Will dew better next time.

Ursus corrected your grammer??? Really, that is funny as ****.

[dgtw]

That was my very first thought as well. I couldn't believe how low the flow of traffic/posts was there. If you went down like 10 htreads the last post was 10 or 12 days ago.

I know there are a lot of FCS message boards that are also pretty low flow but man if you are FBS you have to at lest compare with the top of FCS a little bit. I know they have some decent posters somewhere and I do hope they show up here at some point because I think this board shows a good thing about FCS. Community.

According to their board, everyone is going to stop giving money and going to games, so their attendance will be zero and we won't get any new posters.

[BisonFan02]

Added depth to the MVC would cancel that out right quick.

But no added depth to the Summit? xlolx #SummitLeagueFootball

[PantherRob82]

All the MVC would have to do is offer someone like WIU or SDSU and it would be back to a stable MVFC. (if they cared)

[BisonFan02]

If their was a spot for football UND would already be in the Summit. As far as baseball goes, if it was up to every coach in the league UND would already be in it. Instead, they lose their program due to exorbitant expenses. Idiots.

IMO, there just needs to be some slight shifting in the next few years and it will happen for the UND and the MVFC/Summit. Makes too much sense.

Take baseball out of the WAC...

[clenz]

All the MVC would have to do is offer someone like WIU or SDSU and it would be back to a stable MVFC. (if they cared)

Truth in this.

Only as loyal as your best option.

[F'N Hawks]

Take baseball out of the WAC...

....read the sentence above it.

[Thumper 76]

Can you imagine the screams coming from the eastern MVFC schools if NMSU to the MVFC was proposed?

Oh sweet, sweet music.

[BisonFan02]

....read the sentence above it.

no xlolx

[BisonFan02]

Oh sweet, sweet music.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJL4Y3aGPuA

[taper]

All the MVC would have to do is offer someone like WIU or SDSU and it would be back to a stable MVFC. (if they cared)

WIU possibly. Better travel, though they'd have to find a new home for men's swimming and diving. SDSU no way. SD politicians will get in the way of splitting up SDSU and USD again, and doubt they'd want to split with NDSU either. Travel looks about the same but they have swimming too. Plus, did you see the Summit was ahead of MVC in basketball RPI this year? Not sure that's a new normal, but the MVC isn't the step up it used to be.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Just finding a couple of old threads on the topic for us to look back on and maybe have some fun. xlolx

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?158307-Idaho-FB-back-to-the-Big-Sky-Conf&p=2131306#post2131306

[PantherRob82]

WIU possibly. Better travel, though they'd have to find a new home for men's swimming and diving. SDSU no way. SD politicians will get in the way of splitting up SDSU and USD again, and doubt they'd want to split with NDSU either. Travel looks about the same but they have swimming too. Plus, did you see the Summit was ahead of MVC in basketball RPI this year? Not sure that's a new normal, but the MVC isn't the step up it used to be.

"Ahead" and Jacksonville St was the #1 seed. xlolx

[clenz]

"Ahead" and Jacksonville St was the #1 seed. xlolx
I'm not a huge fan of RPI, though it has it's merits in areas. The MVC, right now, is a prime example of the flaw of RPI. The Summit had HALF of it's conference finish with 12 or less wins on the season. They also had 2 more finish with 16 wins. That's 6 of 8 teams that had 16 or less wins. On the flip side the MVC had 4 teams over 20 winsHowever, the conference played the hole in the RPI system perfectly with their scheduling. ORU is the only team to play a top 132 SOS. The MVC had multiple top 100 SOS. The difference is it also had two schools play a 237 and 251 SOS. If you understand how RPI works it's pretty clear how the RPI gaming can be done - it's how the MWC finished #1 in conference RPI a few years ago.

Looking strictly at conference SOS and RPI the MVC is a head of the Summit.

Looking at how SOS played out, with both conference combined played out we have 5 of the top 6 SOS's in the MVC. The problem is the bottom of the MVC makes up 4 of the final 5. That bottom 4 of the MVC is why the conference finished at a record low this year. The top of the conference is still pretty damn strong.


1
Northern Iowa


2
Oral Roberts


3
Illinois St.


4
Wichita St.


5
Bradley


6
Indiana St.


7
S. Dakota St.


8
IUPUI


9
South Dakota


10
IPFW


11
Nebraska Omaha


12
Missouri St.


13
N. Dakota St.


14
Western Ill.


15
Evansville


16
Denver


17
Drake


18
Loyola Chicago


19
Southern Ill.



If sorted by RPI the MVC has 5 of the top 8. Problem is, because of how RPI works, they also have 4 of the bottom 5. A quick run of an RPI sim shows that Southern Illinois moving their SOS from 251 to 200 and losing a couple more games actually moved the MVC a head of The Summit in RPI because of how it's calculated.

It's pretty easy to manipulate. The **** teams of the MVC are just a god damn disaster on multiple levels right now and dragging it down. The top of the league is still as good as it's been.

Top 100 wins by conference
MVC - 26
Summit - 14

Summit also had zero top 25 wins

Also, remember when EIU was #1 in the football version of the RPI - SRS?



What's all of that mean? The Summit teams whored themselves out to more top programs than the MVC, who went for more home games. That means the way RPI is figured is instantly boosted quite a bit in favor of The Summit because they decided to "whore out" their schedule.

[Laker]

Just finding a couple of old threads on the topic for us to look back on and maybe have some fun. xlolx

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?158307-Idaho-FB-back-to-the-Big-Sky-Conf&p=2131306#post2131306

"Idaho will drop football, period, before it comes back to FCS. They're in FBS or they're out of football altogether"

Swing and a miss. :)

[344Johnson]

WIU possibly. Better travel, though they'd have to find a new home for men's swimming and diving. SDSU no way. SD politicians will get in the way of splitting up SDSU and USD again, and doubt they'd want to split with NDSU either. Travel looks about the same but they have swimming too. Plus, did you see the Summit was ahead of MVC in basketball RPI this year? Not sure that's a new normal, but the MVC isn't the step up it used to be.

MVC is better at basketball. A calculation that can be manipulated doesn't change that.

[Mayville Bison]

"Idaho will drop football, period, before it comes back to FCS. They're in FBS or they're out of football altogether"

Swing and a miss. :)

In his defense (am I really defending him?), that's exactly what Idaho's fanbase thought and/or wanted as well - either stay FBS or drop it completely. I guess it's a good thing those decisions aren't made by fans

[JayJ79]

In his defense (am I really defending him?), that's exactly what Idaho's fanbase thought and/or wanted as well - either stay FBS or drop it completely. I guess it's a good thing those decisions aren't made by fans

I don't understand that mindset. If you enjoy football, I would think that playing/watching football at the FCS level is preferable to not having football at all.

Sure, ideally you'd like your team to be at the top level (but you'd also like your team to have at least some success at that level, which I don't think 3 seasons over .500 and 2 Humanitarian bowl appearances in 19 seasons, most of those occuring way back in the 90s really qualifies). Not that the Big West/WAC/Sunbelt is really "top level" anyway.

But if remaining at that level has proven to be financially unfeasible, then I would think FCS football would be a better alternative than no football.

[344Johnson]

I don't understand that mindset. If you enjoy football, I would think that playing/watching football at the FCS level is preferable to not having football at all.

Sure, ideally you'd like your team to be at the top level (but you'd also like your team to have at least some success at that level, which I don't think 3 seasons over .500 and 2 Humanitarian bowl appearances in 19 seasons, most of those occuring way back in the 90s really qualifies). Not that the Big West/WAC/Sunbelt is really "top level" anyway.

But if remaining at that level has proven to be financially unfeasible, then I would think FCS football would be a better alternative than no football.

Pride is a powerful thing.

[superman7515]

...most of those occuring way back in the 90s ...

I'll hear some sports stat like that, "he's the first to hit for the cycle for Team X since 1997" and I'm sitting there thinking, "1997? Why even mention that? It wasn't that long ago, it was just... Almost 20 years?! Holy crap!"

I'm sure I'm not the only one, but hearing a sports stat hasn't happened since the 80's or 90's always trips me up.

/endthreaddrift

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Mpls did voice a common misconception at the time, that moving to FCS from FBS would be such an emasculating experience that nobody would try it. And it's important to remember that Idaho pretty much looked under every rock in an effort to see whether they could stay FBS. In the end, they weren't choosing between the Sun Belt and FCS. They were choosing between toiling as an FBS independent and FCS. Those are two very different conversations.

This is the critical difference as well between EMU (who has no reason to consider FCS as they're firm members of the MAC and the NCAA won't force them to reclassify because of crappy on-field product and crappy attendance) and UMass (who are the same level competitively and attendace-wise as EMU, but don't have a conference to call home).

[Laker]

I don't understand that mindset. If you enjoy football, I would think that playing/watching football at the FCS level is preferable to not having football at all.

Sure, ideally you'd like your team to be at the top level (but you'd also like your team to have at least some success at that level, which I don't think 3 seasons over .500 and 2 Humanitarian bowl appearances in 19 seasons, most of those occuring way back in the 90s really qualifies). Not that the Big West/WAC/Sunbelt is really "top level" anyway.

But if remaining at that level has proven to be financially unfeasible, then I would think FCS football would be a better alternative than no football.

I agree. That whole line of thinking is like someone who takes their ball and goes home because something doesn't go their way. I played 11 man football in high school and college. Around 1978 or so my high school went to 9 man football because of declining enrollment. Later the school I was teaching at did the same. The alternative was to drop football. In a little over ten years we went to the finals in the Prep Bowl three times. I lost track of the unbeaten seasons and conference championships. That is a whole lot better than playing kick the can on Friday nights.

I've had to listen to people talk about how 9 man isn't really football like it is two handed touch. The argument is quite short as I list the number of my former student athletes who played football at D2, D3 and junior colleges. Then they go away red faced with their mouths shut.

[344Johnson]

I agree. That whole line of thinking is like someone who takes their ball and goes home because something doesn't go their way. I played 11 man football in high school and college. Around 1978 or so my high school went to 9 man football because of declining enrollment. Later the school I was teaching at did the same. The alternative was to drop football. In a little over ten years we went to the finals in the Prep Bowl three times. I lost track of the unbeaten seasons and conference championships. That is a whole lot better than playing kick the can on Friday nights.

I've had to listen to people talk about how 9 man isn't really football like it is two handed touch. The argument is quite short as I list the number of my former student athletes who played football at D2, D3 and junior colleges. Then they go away red faced with their mouths shut.

I brought it up much earlier in the thread, but my high school sounds like they are being dropped from AAA to AA for football. It sucks. A good season(they don't come around often) at the AAA level while being the small fish in the big pond to me and some of the others I've talked to about it is preferable to beating up on the AA schools like Shanley, Wahpeton, and Bismarck St. Mary's have done.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

"Idaho will drop football, period, before it comes back to FCS. They're in FBS or they're out of football altogether"

Swing and a miss. :)

Yes, that was after another thread sort of related where he and I had a long discussison on the matter in which I told him that even if fans are stuck on that the institution does have ties with the BSC that they see as valuable and I would not bet on them not coming back.

When/if I come across it I'll post it up cuz it was a pretty good discussion with others on the thread.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

In his defense (am I really defending him?), that's exactly what Idaho's fanbase thought and/or wanted as well - either stay FBS or drop it completely. I guess it's a good thing those decisions aren't made by fans

Bingo. People always sort of make snap judgments as to what goes on by fan reaction....it just ain't that way. It is a piece, but doesn't drive the thing.

[Laker]

This reminds me of my second year in teaching, when student asked me how colleges decide what time you have study hall. And no, he wasn't an athlete.

Vince Lombardi- A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall.

[clenz]

Not sure where this fits, but an interesting story to come across this morning given the idea that G5 leagues will start to be pressed for money more and more and a shift may have to happen


http://awfulannouncing.com/2016/conference-usa-to-see-big-drop-in-media-rights.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=conference-usa-to-see-big-drop-in-media-rights
CONFERENCE USA TO SEE BIG DROP IN MEDIA RIGHTS (http://awfulannouncing.com/2016/conference-usa-to-see-big-drop-in-media-rights.html)

Perhaps it’s a sign of the times where networks are looking to cut costs where they can, or maybe it’s the fact that Conference USA doesn’t have the marquee schools that it did when it signed it’s last media rights deal, but as Sports Business Journal reports (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2016/05/02/In-Depth/Media-rights.aspx), the league will be lower payments from CBS and ESPN when a new contract is signed. A deal hasn’t announced as of yet, but is expected soon. The conference which had seen $7 million annual from its network partners will see significantly less revenue in the new contract, an estimated $1 million per year which will be a hit for school athletic departments.
Fox which had been part of a C-USA triumvirate with CBS and ESPN will not be part of the new contract according to SBJ. As the conference lost Central Florida, Houston and Memphis and replaced them with Louisiana Tech, Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky, the league became less attractive for television. And with Fox opting out of the new rights deal, it means the member schools with see less money.
Does this mean a sign of things to come for sports rights? Maybe not, but with C-USA seeing schools in smaller markets than in years past, it pays the price in the short-term. In addition, with the networks locked into expensive long-term deals with the major sports leagues like MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL, some of the smaller properties are seeing lower deals as ESPN and Fox which were once in an arms race, are now cutting back on spending.
But with Conference USA seeing lower rights fees and other smaller conferences perhaps seeing them as well, the big spending days by the networks may be over. And if that’s the case, the smaller conferences may have to be creative in finding new revenues to make up for the lost media rights fees.

[clenz]

If my simpleton math is correct that is a move from about $500,000 per school per year to $71,428.57.

That is, unless, it's going from 7m per school to 1m per school. I have a hard time believing CUSA was getting $98,000,000 before, though

[mvemjsunpx]

If my simpleton math is correct that is a move from about $500,000 per school per year to $71,428.57.

That is, unless, it's going from 7m per school to 1m per school. I have a hard time believing CUSA was getting $98,000,000 before, though

The old deal dates back to before a bunch of teams bolted for the AAC, as the article kinda points out. C-USA's relative strength has declined quite a bit since then (especially in basketball).

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Not sure where this fits, but an interesting story to come across this morning given the idea that G5 leagues will start to be pressed for money more and more and a shift may have to happen


http://awfulannouncing.com/2016/conference-usa-to-see-big-drop-in-media-rights.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=conference-usa-to-see-big-drop-in-media-rights
CONFERENCE USA TO SEE BIG DROP IN MEDIA RIGHTS (http://awfulannouncing.com/2016/conference-usa-to-see-big-drop-in-media-rights.html)

Perhaps it’s a sign of the times where networks are looking to cut costs where they can, or maybe it’s the fact that Conference USA doesn’t have the marquee schools that it did when it signed it’s last media rights deal, but as Sports Business Journal reports (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2016/05/02/In-Depth/Media-rights.aspx), the league will be lower payments from CBS and ESPN when a new contract is signed. A deal hasn’t announced as of yet, but is expected soon. The conference which had seen $7 million annual from its network partners will see significantly less revenue in the new contract, an estimated $1 million per year which will be a hit for school athletic departments.
Fox which had been part of a C-USA triumvirate with CBS and ESPN will not be part of the new contract according to SBJ. As the conference lost Central Florida, Houston and Memphis and replaced them with Louisiana Tech, Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky, the league became less attractive for television. And with Fox opting out of the new rights deal, it means the member schools with see less money.
Does this mean a sign of things to come for sports rights? Maybe not, but with C-USA seeing schools in smaller markets than in years past, it pays the price in the short-term. In addition, with the networks locked into expensive long-term deals with the major sports leagues like MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL, some of the smaller properties are seeing lower deals as ESPN and Fox which were once in an arms race, are now cutting back on spending.
But with Conference USA seeing lower rights fees and other smaller conferences perhaps seeing them as well, the big spending days by the networks may be over. And if that’s the case, the smaller conferences may have to be creative in finding new revenues to make up for the lost media rights fees.

It fits a bit clenzy but you should put it up as it's own thing maybe as well? It's some interesting news that might catch a few more eyeballs with it's own title.

Many times I've mentioned that at some point I believe it won't be the FCS schools looking to move sideways to G5, it will be G5 looking to change and become more attractive to FCS schools to put together something that works with a playoff like we have now.

I still say between 72-75 scholarships for football and a playoff makes something worth looking at for the top of FCS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I believe that is $7 million for the entire conference itself. Not sure how it is distributed.

"All the riches that FBS membership provides" xlolx

Even that $1 million is way more than what is suspected to be the rights for the Sun Belt and MAC, whose "terms are not disclosed" but are almost certainly in this ballpark.

[clenz]

It fits a bit clenzy but you should put it up as it's own thing maybe as well? It's some interesting news that might catch a few more eyeballs with it's own title.

Many times I've mentioned that at some point I believe it won't be the FCS schools looking to move sideways to G5, it will be G5 looking to change and become more attractive to FCS schools to put together something that works with a playoff like we have now.

I still say between 72-75 scholarships for football and a playoff makes something worth looking at for the top of FCS.
I thought about it's own thread, but knew it "didn't belong" in the FCS Forum and didn't want it lost in the other sports....

Maybe I'll word the title/discussion topic to make it fit.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I thought about it's own thread, but knew it "didn't belong" in the FCS Forum and didn't want it lost in the other sports....

Maybe I'll word the title/discussion topic to make it fit.

FWIW I'm thinking about making a FCS thinkpiece about these rights issues for the blog, hopefully later today (as long as real life doesn't interrupt).

[Thumper 76]

Just finding a couple of old threads on the topic for us to look back on and maybe have some fun. xlolx

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?158307-Idaho-FB-back-to-the-Big-Sky-Conf&p=2131306#post2131306

xlolx that's fantastic xlolx

[RootinFerDukes]

The handful of Idaho fans who wanted to see their program die before it dropped to Fcs are prideful and that is clearly clouding their judgement.
What makes them think that anything Idaho has done over the last 20 years is any more nationally relevant than anything Fcs teams have done in the same timeframe.
The sun belt? Fbs independence? I promise you that there's no more considerable exposure difference between that and Fcs.
Hell, I probably saw ndsu, the CAA, the ovc and the southland on tv in Virginia more than the one Idaho game because they were playing at some P5 school for a big ole beat down.

This move is great for them, even if they're too overinflated to realize it.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The handful of Idaho fans who wanted to see their program die before it dropped to Fcs are prideful and that is clearly clouding their judgement.
What makes them think that anything Idaho has done over the last 20 years is any more nationally relevant than anything Fcs teams have done in the same timeframe.
The sun belt? Fbs independence? I promise you that there's no more considerable exposure difference between that and Fcs.
Hell, I probably saw ndsu, the CAA, the ovc and the southland on tv in Virginia more than the one Idaho game because they were playing at some P5 school for a big ole beat down.

This move is great for them, even if they're too overinflated to realize it.

Absolutely agree, but I can see how it would take fans some time to adjust. Once it becomes normal to them in 3 years I think you'll see either some new fans or a changing of the feelings with some.

Anybody that says they will walk away might. They really don't matter all that much overall. They are fringe, just as there is a fringe group that say they would follow if it FCS pr stay FCS is a more apt description. Mentioned several times but even a team like Marshall in the present has about the same attendance level as they did when FCS. I think Idaho will see that the move to the BSC does not affect them hardly at all as far as support once the turmoil of the first few years subsides.

[Catbooster]

The handful of Idaho fans who wanted to see their program die before it dropped to Fcs are prideful and that is clearly clouding their judgement.
What makes them think that anything Idaho has done over the last 20 years is any more nationally relevant than anything Fcs teams have done in the same timeframe.
The sun belt? Fbs independence? I promise you that there's no more considerable exposure difference between that and Fcs.
Hell, I probably saw ndsu, the CAA, the ovc and the southland on tv in Virginia more than the one Idaho game because they were playing at some P5 school for a big ole beat down.

This move is great for them, even if they're too overinflated to realize it.

Completely agree with this.

But I don't know the politics within Idaho. The one argument I've seen them make that may be a valid concern is that Boise State being the lone FBS school in the state (with larger enrollment and exposure, I believe) may result in better funding, etc. from the state board of education, or regents, or whatever they have there. I think that is more likely a worry that some of the fans have rather than an actual problem. If I were a legislator or regent or whatever, I wouldn't let the University of [State] play second fiddle to the [City] State College in terms of state support. But I can understand worrying about that.

[SUUTbird]

Wasn't the issue with North Dakota and the MVFC the issues surrounding the Fighting Sioux mascot? Now that it's finally resolved I would think that UND would be an attractive option to them and vice versa or were there more reasons why they didn't get the invite?

[taper]

Wasn't the issue with North Dakota and the MVFC the issues surrounding the Fighting Sioux mascot? Now that it's finally resolved I would think that UND would be an attractive option to them and vice versa or were there more reasons why they didn't get the invite?

I'm not aware of any public statements about the MVFC. I don't remember the exact timeline, but the Summit was definitely interested in UND(and USD at the same time) and had a site visit scheduled. UND abruptly canceled the visit and announced they joined the Big Sky, USD signed with the Summit and MVFC shortly after. Summit wouldn't take them until the nickname was resolved, which it supposedly was after the statewide vote in 2012(shortly before joining BSC). I get the feeling UND burned some bridges with the Summit. Dropping baseball makes them a lot less attractive now.

[Hammersmith]

Wasn't the issue with North Dakota and the MVFC the issues surrounding the Fighting Sioux mascot? Now that it's finally resolved I would think that UND would be an attractive option to them and vice versa or were there more reasons why they didn't get the invite?

It was the Summit, and that was a really complicated situation. What was really going on depends on who you talk to and who you believe.

A group of UND fans are convinced that NDSU was trying to keep UND off our schedule by any means necessary, and the Summit was complicit in some way.

The commissioner of the Summit(your old AD, Tom Douple) said that he and UND's president, Kelley, were working together to break a political impasse about the nickname. Douple agreed to be the bad guy to add outside pressure to the ND politicians that weren't willing to move on even though it was clear the tribes weren't going to give approval.

UND had something like two years to win approval, but it was clear about six months in that the tribes weren't going to budge. None of the guys in Bismarck were willing to be the one to stand up and say it was time to move on; they were content to just let the clock run out. Kelley wanted to get the ball rolling, but he couldn't be the one to do it himself. So Douple took the bullet and added an outside pressure: no Summit invite until you resolve the nickname. It was looking like it was going to work until the Big Sky stepped in at the last minute, and then a state representative with Washington aspirations mucked it up even further.

At least that's the view of those on the other side (obviously I'm one of them).

When UND bailed on the Summit at the last minute, Douple went to the press with the above version of events and Kelley denied it. It's helped cement Douple as the Devil Incarnate for some UND fans. It's pretty clear Douple and the Summit are pretty pissed right back at UND. Not only did UND shaft the Summit at the last minute, but in doing so, they were actively participating in a direct effort to destroy the Summit and cripple the MVFC. That sort of stuff isn't forgotten easily.

[SDFS]

It was the Summit, and that was a really complicated situation. What was really going on depends on who you talk to and who you believe.

A group of UND fans are convinced that NDSU was trying to keep UND off our schedule by any means necessary, and the Summit was complicit in some way.

The commissioner of the Summit(your old AD, Tom Douple) said that he and UND's president, Kelley, were working together to break a political impasse about the nickname. Douple agreed to be the bad guy to add outside pressure to the ND politicians that weren't willing to move on even though it was clear the tribes weren't going to give approval.

UND had something like two years to win approval, but it was clear about six months in that the tribes weren't going to budge. None of the guys in Bismarck were willing to be the one to stand up and say it was time to move on; they were content to just let the clock run out. Kelley wanted to get the ball rolling, but he couldn't be the one to do it himself. So Douple took the bullet and added an outside pressure: no Summit invite until you resolve the nickname. It was looking like it was going to work until the Big Sky stepped in at the last minute, and then a state representative with Washington aspirations mucked it up even further.

At least that's the view of those on the other side (obviously I'm one of them).

When UND bailed on the Summit at the last minute, Douple went to the press with the above version of events and Kelley denied it. It's helped cement Douple as the Devil Incarnate for some UND fans. It's pretty clear Douple and the Summit are pretty pissed right back at UND. Not only did UND shaft the Summit at the last minute, but in doing so, they were actively participating in a direct effort to destroy the Summit and cripple the MVFC. That sort of stuff isn't forgotten easily.

WOW!! - now that is a story...

[Hammersmith]

WOW!! - now that is a story...

I know you guys don't believe it, but it fits the facts and timeline better than anything else. If you put emotions aside and look at the motivations of the players involved, it makes sense. But I know I'm not going to convince you otherwise. As I said, it's complicated, and different people believe different things.

You have to admit, it's just as believable as some of the stuff S2C/SV posts (though that's one hell of a low bar).