Idaho exploring backup plan to drop to FCS

[clenz]

I so totally approve this message.
So, Liberty would be better Rivals with Texas State than Idaho?

[RootinFerDukes]

Meanwhile you have schools like JMU that have had opportunities over the last decade with several G5 conferences (rumored of course, conferences don't publicly acknowledge when they're rebuffed by Fcs programs except the sun belt).
Our current and former president expect all the stars to perfectly align before they'll make a commitment.

[Libertine]

So, Liberty would be better Rivals with Texas State than Idaho?
That wasn't my point -- I was agreeing more with LFN's direct comment about Liberty -- but, really, who wouldn't offer a better rivalry than Idaho?

Come to think of it, Liberty does better at recruiting the state of Texas than Idaho does so, yes, Liberty would be a better rivalry for Texas State than Idaho is.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

NMSU needs 75 percent approval, or nine of the 12 votes to remain in the league.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/college/university-of-idaho/article60594266.html


Twelve presidents and chancellors are eligible to vote, including 11 full-time members and league newcomer Coastal Carolina. Idaho needs 75 percent, or nine, of the presidents to vote yes to extend the current agreement.
Read more here: http://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/college/university-of-idaho/article60594266.html#storylink=cpy

To put this in perspective: the fate of two schools that have been FBS for a quarter-century is literally controlled by three members that haven't been Sun Belt members more than five years (App State, Georgia Southern, Goergia State) - and a member that's not even an official member yet and doesn't even techincally have an FBS program yet (Coastal). You can't make this stuff up.

No presentation could possibly save these programs from the knife.

[clenz]

That does seem pretty shadey

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That does seem pretty shadey

Yep, it does.

[dgtw]

USA and Geo. State didn't even have a football team a few years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BisonFan02]

USA and Geo. State didn't even have a football team a few years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are we sure they even have one now?

[344Johnson]

Honestly, I can see where the Idaho folks who support getting rid of football rather than dropping down to IAA. Pride and all that.

My hometown is likely going to be dropping down to the second highest level of football in ND and I'd rather they just get rid of football.

[Thumper 76]

Honestly, I can see where the Idaho folks who support getting rid of football rather than dropping down to IAA. Pride and all that.

My hometown is likely going to be dropping down to the second highest level of football in ND and I'd rather they just get rid of football.

That's like saying I can't drive a Mercedes so I'm not going to have a car.


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[BisonFan02]

Honestly, I can see where the Idaho folks who support getting rid of football rather than dropping down to IAA. Pride and all that.

My hometown is likely going to be dropping down to the second highest level of football in ND and I'd rather they just get rid of football.

Jamestown HS never belonged in the highest level of ND HS football....get real. xlolx

[RootinFerDukes]

Are we sure they even have one now?

You sir are becoming one of my favorite posters. You tell it like it is.

[BisonFan02]

You sir are becoming one of my favorite posters. You tell it like it is.

Truth hurts... xlolx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-89odirpVVA

[RootinFerDukes]

Yep. Anyone that laughs at Georgia state's cash drop is okay in my book.

[No_Skill]

Yep. Anyone that laughs at Georgia state's cash drop is okay in my book.

...so everyone.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Honestly, I can see where the Idaho folks who support getting rid of football rather than dropping down to IAA. Pride and all that.

My hometown is likely going to be dropping down to the second highest level of football in ND and I'd rather they just get rid of football.

When Temple held "the vote" in 2005 there were three options on the table; remain FBS, drop to FCS or eliminate the program. There were probably as many fans/alums that would have dropped the program before going FCS since Temple had ALWAYS played at the top level of the sport. For that reason I understood their position despite my belief that FCS would have been perfectly fine. Obviously the administration has made the right decision.

Idaho is different in that not all of their history is at the highest level. But a good portion is. The Vandal faithful need to come to realize that the state has invested in Boise State as the "face of the state". It started in the 80's with hosting NCAA Tournament games and has progressed as the school and city have grown. The lawmakers clearly made the right call to invest in the school located in the state's capitol and largest city. As a result Idaho will always play second fiddle to Boise State within its state. Idaho's proximity to Wazzu also overshadows the Vandals in Spokane and the Tri-Cities. Basically the school has almost no shot to be a consistently good FBS program imo.

If I was an Idaho alum I'd love to play Montana, Montana State and EWU again. The Kibbie Dome would instantly become one the tougher venues at the FCS level.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

...so everyone.

Yeah, that is a big party for sure. Back when that happened it was a universal line up of posters laughing at the pure gimmick that was GA State.

[344Johnson]

Jamestown HS never belonged in the highest level of ND HS football....get real. xlolx

I believe in the 80's or early 90's they made the state championship.
No comment on the past decade. Always been at the highest level I think. They'll be significantly bigger than a lot of the AA schools.

Idaho should have probably never been there, but it'd be a tough pill to swallow. Can't really blame them whatever choice they make(are forced into?).

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Word is now that Idaho is getting the boot from the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt has a teleconference scheduled for 2:00 today.

[BisonFan02]

Word is now that Idaho is getting the boot from the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt has a teleconference scheduled for 2:00 today.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lXdyD2Yzls

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Word is now that Idaho is getting the boot from the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt has a teleconference scheduled for 2:00 today.

Finally the travesty of the democracy of this decision will finally come to an end. As if we didn't know this would happen.

Only question is whether NMSU is going to be booted with them. If they stay, it's because of a bowl thing.

[BisonFan02]

What time zone for 2pm. Eastern? Anywhere this will be broadcast?

[RedFlash]

Sounds as if NMSU is also getting the boot and that the SBC may be looking for other schools within their geographical footprint.



https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/525018248962527232/7HKpS8Ff_bigger.jpegDoug RobersonVerified account‏@DougRobersonAJC (https://twitter.com/DougRobersonAJC)

I'm hearing @SunBelt (https://twitter.com/SunBelt) will announce at 3 that NMSU and Idaho will be out, likely after the 2016 season. Conference office declined to comment

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

What time zone for 2pm. Eastern? Anywhere this will be broadcast?

It's 3:00 Eastern (my bad).

From looking at the twitters of various media people, it's looking like Idaho is done in the SBC.

[BisonFan02]

This could get interesting....

- - - Updated - - -


It's 3:00 Eastern (my bad).

From looking at the twitters of various media people, it's looking like Idaho is done in the SBC.

Got it...is there a radio/conference feed anywhere?

[clenz]

It's 3:00 Eastern (my bad).

From looking at the twitters of various media people, it's looking like Idaho is done in the SBC.
Sounds as though they'll be replaced by two schools in the southeast for next year...Liberty, here's your shot

[BisonFan02]

Sounds as though they'll be replaced by two schools in the southeast for next year...Liberty, here's your shot

Depends on what the definition of "Southeast" genuinely means to the Sunbelt. :D

[clenz]

Idaho to the Big Sky
UND to the Summit/MVFC
NMSU to the MVFC/MFVC

Boom. Problem solved....

Until UNI/WSU bolt for the MWC in 5-7 yearsxlolx

[BisonFan02]

Idaho to the Big Sky
UND to the Summit/MVFC
NMSU to the MVFC/MFVC

Boom. Problem solved....

Until UNI/WSU bolt for the MWC in 5-7 yearsxlolx

#buttbustrip

[clenz]

#buttbustrip

TheMvC needs WSU/UNI to not be dog ****

UNI needs someone to keep WSU happy just long enough to build out 30k seat stadium to bolt with them when their program is up and running Xlolx

Then they can add UIC and UWM and have a the bus trips they want

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Georgia State beat writer is saying both Idaho and NMSU are gone.

First of all, if true, I really feel for the fans of both programs. Idaho really has a decent following and some good fans for a program that has struggled like it has and NMSU has been a permanent FBS member so it can't feel good to be homeless.

It was probably inevitable with 10 FBS conferences forming out of 11 FBS conferences that someone was going to get squeezed out. The NCAA needs to allow for the creation of a new FBS conference if enough founding members can be found.

[BisonFan02]

TheMvC needs WSU/UNI to not be dog ****

UNI needs someone to keep WSU happy just long enough to build out 30k seat stadium to bolt with them when their program is up and running Xlolx

Then they can add UIC and UWM and have a the bus trips they want

http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/Girl-Meme-20.jpg

xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Sounds as though they'll be replaced by two schools in the southeast for next year...Liberty, here's your shot

Liberty on Line 1, EKU on Line 2

[Libertine]

http://sunbeltsports.org/news/2016/3/1/FB_0301161055.aspx


NEW ORLEANS – Beginning with the 2018 football season the Sun Belt Conference will be a 10-team football league.

Sun Belt Conference Presidents and Chancellors made the decision to be a 10-team league rather than extend the current membership agreements that are in place with the University of Idaho and New Mexico State University. These agreements will now expire following the 2017 football season.

[Bisonator]

The WAC shall rise from the ashes.

[BisonFan02]

The WAC shall rise from the ashes.

Too late.

[Bisonator]

Too late.

It's never too late. It's 5 o'clock somewhere! xdrunkyxxlolx

[mvemjsunpx]

Sheesh, the posters on the Vandal board (http://www.scout.com/college/idaho/forums?s=205) are more delusional than the move-up propagandists on eGriz. "Make playing as an Independent work"? xlolx It's fricking Moscow, Idaho. How could playing as an independent possibly work there?

[Laker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lXdyD2Yzls

I've seen that look many a time...................

[BisonFan02]

Sheesh, the posters on the Vandal board (http://www.scout.com/college/idaho/forums?s=205) are more delusional than the move-up propagandists on eGriz. "Make playing as an Independent work"? xlolx It's fricking Moscow, Idaho. How could playing as an independent possibly work there?

By not playing a single game at home (or just 3-4 per year) and taking paycheck body bag games all over the country to float the athletic department. Not optimal, but it is an option. xlolx

[clenz]

By not playing a single game at home (or just 3-4 per year) and taking paycheck body bag games all over the country to float the athletic department. Not optimal, but it is an option. xlolx
Their record wouldn't suffer much compared to what it had been...

[BisonFan02]

Their record wouldn't suffer much compared to what it had been...

No playoffs...no bowls....no problem! Straight cash homie.

[mvemjsunpx]

By not playing a single game at home (or just 3-4 per year) and taking paycheck body bag games all over the country to float the athletic department. Not optimal, but it is an option. xlolx

They could be the Idaho Washington Generals! xthumbsupx

[BisonFan02]

They could be the Idaho Washington Generals! xthumbsupx

http://media.giphy.com/media/3rgXBOmTlzyFCURutG/giphy.gif

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

By not playing a single game at home (or just 3-4 per year) and taking paycheck body bag games all over the country to float the athletic department. Not optimal, but it is an option. xlolx

I believe you have to have at least 5 home games a year in the FBS. Scheduling, rather than money, is actually what makes being an independent impractical for most FBS teams.

[BisonFan02]

I believe you have to have at least 5 home games a year in the FBS. Scheduling, rather than money, is actually what makes being an independent impractical for most FBS teams.

You can play home games on the road/neutral sites correct?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Big Sky sponsors 8 team FBS wing and 7+ team FCS wing?

FBS wing: Montana, Montana State, EWU, Idaho, NMSU, Portland State, Cal Poly, UC Davis?

FCS wing: NAU, SUU, NoCo, UND, Weber, Sac State, ISU?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Big Sky sponsors 8 team FBS wing and 7+ team FCS wing?

FBS wing: Montana, Montana State, EWU, Idaho, NMSU, Portland State, Cal Poly, UC Davis?

FCS wing: NAU, SUU, NoCo, UND, Weber, Sac State, ISU?

WTF for?

No.

[BisonFan02]

WTF for?

No.

Ditto

[BisonFan02]

There's no need for the BSC to do anything different by adding Idaho...outside of now being even more unbalanced with 14 football members and their schedule (other than killing their OOC schedule opportunities). You could put a tinfoil hat on and kick UND out and send them to the MVFC/Summit in order to plug in Idaho. I don't see that happening either.

[dgtw]

Too late.

This probably hurts them. If NMSU joins another league they will be at seven and then there is the situation at Chicago State.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BisonFan02]

This probably hurts them. If NMSU joins another league they will be at seven and then there is the situation at Chicago State.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The WAC football conversation is a non-starter as they haven't sponsored the sport for xxx # of years. (someone will have to chime in with the actual rule).

[Bisonator]

Big Sky sponsors 8 team FBS wing and 7+ team FCS wing?

FBS wing: Montana, Montana State, EWU, Idaho, NMSU, Portland State, Cal Poly, UC Davis?

FCS wing: NAU, SUU, NoCo, UND, Weber, Sac State, ISU?

Siouxvolley/star2city/NODAK and whatever other names he posts under at different boards is way ahead of you on this theory. He already has UND and half the BSC in the FBS by 2018. He also has NDSU begging for a ride on UND's coattails to FBS glory. xlolx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Big Sky sponsors 8 team FBS wing and 7+ team FCS wing?

FBS wing: Montana, Montana State, EWU, Idaho, NMSU, Portland State, Cal Poly, UC Davis?

FCS wing: NAU, SUU, NoCo, UND, Weber, Sac State, ISU?

Or just split into 2 FCS leagues?

At what point does the Big Sky get too big?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Siouxvolley/star2city/NODAK and whatever other names he posts under at different boards is way ahead of you on this theory. He already has UND and half the BSC in the FBS by 2018. He also has NDSU begging for a ride on UND's coattails to FBS glory. xlolx

dbackjon posted this idea a few years back on CS to run it through it's paces and see if it were something (split BSC) that were a possibility.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Or just split into 2 FCS leagues?

At what point does the Big Sky get too big?

It's past that right now.

[BisonFan02]

Or just split into 2 FCS leagues?

At what point does the Big Sky get too big?

With no prospects of having a conference championship within the existing FCS...and the unbalanced conference schedule, that ship has already sailed. I don't even like the mini version of the MVFC unbalanced schedule. xlolx

[F'N Hawks]

https://twitter.com/millerjryan/status/704760039639089152

"I was told in January that if Idaho ends up joining Big Sky, the conference will look at splitting league into two conferences for football."

[clenz]

With no prospects of having a conference championship within the existing FCS...and the unbalanced conference schedule, that ship has already sailed. I don't even like the mini version of the MVFC unbalanced schedule. xlolx
Yep.

That automatic conference win over YSU that UNI didn't get the last two years cost the team a seed both years, I believe.

[BisonFan02]

https://twitter.com/millerjryan/status/704760039639089152

I was told in January that if Idaho ends up joining Big Sky, the conference will look at splitting league into two conferences for football.

......for what? Who's the conference champ/auto bid?

[F'N Hawks]

......for what? Who's the conference champ/auto bid?

TWO CONFERENCES. Read.

[BisonFan02]

Yep.

That automatic conference win over YSU that UNI didn't get the last two years cost the team a seed both years, I believe.

Its fun playing NDSU and SDSU every year huh? xlolx

[BisonFan02]

TWO CONFERENCES. Read.

LOL....sooooo....you guys are gonna bring back the Great West minus NDSU and SDSU. Have fun.

[clenz]

Its fun playing NDSU and SDSU every year huh? xlolx
So far UNI has missed Indiana State and Youngstown State...The next two years is a rebuilding Illinois State team that loses 94.3% of it's total offense.

We play 70% of the first half of the conference schedule on the road every year - where conference teams have a sub .500 win % all time (next MVFC sheet I'm working on).

Yeah.... our conference schedule is fan-****ing-tastic year after year

[clenz]

LOL....sooooo....you guys are gonna bring back the Great West minus NDSU and SDSU. Have fun.
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Weber State
NAU
Sacramento State
Southern Utah
Portland State

Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Idaho State
Eastern Washington
North Dakota
Northern Colorado



Yep...those are two winner of conferences right there

[BisonFan02]

Big Sky Conference:

Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Idaho State
Portland State
EWU
Weber State



"Great West":

Cal Poly
UC Davis
SUU
NAU
UND
Sac St
NoCo


Put the football only members in the Great West. Maybe add a team or two in each for all sports. Have fun guys.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

TWO CONFERENCES. Read.

Well, that probably harms the teams not sticking with UM, MSU, & EWU as far as TV and so forth goes I would think. Not sure if will happen but anything is a possibility at this point I guess.

[clenz]

Big Sky Conference:

Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Idaho State
Portland State
EWU
Weber State



"Great West":

Cal Poly
UC Davis
SUU
NAU
UND
Sac St
NoCo


Put the football only members in the Great West. Maybe add a team or two in each for all sports. Have fun guys.
Yours is a bit different that mine, but the reality is Montana, Montana State, Idaho, Idaho State, and EWU won't be split up.

No matter who you fill the rest to get to 7 with the other conference is just
http://greenarea.me/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Dumpster-Fire.jpg

[F'N Hawks]

LOL....sooooo....you guys are gonna bring back the Great West minus NDSU and SDSU. Have fun.

"You guys". xrolleyesx Yah UND is in charge of the conference shakeup.

If there are that many teams they have to do something. What would be the big deal with two FCS conferences? And what if the P5/G5 deal happens? Nobody has the answers.

[BisonFan02]

Yours is a bit different that mine, but the reality is Montana, Montana State, Idaho, Idaho State, and EWU won't be split up.

No matter who you fill the rest to get to 7 with the other conference is just
http://greenarea.me/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Dumpster-Fire.jpg


Well...the Great West used to be:

UND (08-end)
USD (08-end)
SUU (04-end)
UC Davis (04-end)
Cal Poly (04-end)
SDSU (04-07)
NDSU (04-07)
NoCo (04-05)

Really....just bringing it back, sans NDSU/SDSU/USD...and replacing them with Sac St. and NAU (sorry, not sorry?). Maybe they would take USD too?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

"You guys". xrolleyesx Yah UND is in charge of the conference shakeup.

If there are that many teams they have to do something. What would be the big deal with two FCS conferences? And what if the P5/G5 deal happens? Nobody has the answers.

What is the p5/g5 deal you are talking about?

[BisonFan02]

"You guys". xrolleyesx Yah UND is in charge of the conference shakeup.

If there are that many teams they have to do something. What would be the big deal with two FCS conferences? And what if the P5/G5 deal happens? Nobody has the answers.

You better hope they have a voice.... xlolx

[F'N Hawks]

What is the p5/g5 deal you are talking about?

The Tier I, Tier II thing. Whatever its called. That is what people aren't talking about. If that comes about none of this really matters.

[Laker]

Sheesh, the posters on the Vandal board (http://www.scout.com/college/idaho/forums?s=205) are more delusional than the move-up propagandists on eGriz. "Make playing as an Independent work"? xlolx It's fricking Moscow, Idaho. How could playing as an independent possibly work there?

Some of these people are on crack.

"The Griz never did anything until Idaho went FBS"

Are they kidding? I knew about Montana back when I was in high school. I remember when Idaho went FBS and I thought that they were nuts. Why are they looking down on the Big Sky option?

[nodak651]

Big Sky Conference:

Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Idaho State
Portland State
EWU
Weber State



"Great West":

Cal Poly
UC Davis
SUU
NAU
UND
Sac St
NoCo


Put the football only members in the Great West. Maybe add a team or two in each for all sports. Have fun guys.

UND would be moving to the Summit before the "Great West" would ever happen. UM, MSU, and Idaho would want UND to be in their conference anyway. UM and MSU got UND into the Big Sky in the first place. Idaho specifically stated that they didn't have to honor their Big Sky Conference contract if either MSU, UM, or UND were not in the conference. UND is a peer institution for them, and you left UND out just because it is wishful thinking on your part.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The Tier I, Tier II thing. Whatever its called. That is what people aren't talking about. If that comes about none of this really matters.

I get what you are saying there but that is just a recognition of what is already fairly apparent so I am not sure I understand how it would affect current FCS?

Are you referring to a possible meshing of G5 and FCS upper 40 or 50 as has been talked about from time to time?

[BisonFan02]

UND would be moving to the Summit before the "Great West" would ever happen. UM, MSU, and Idaho would want UND to be in their conference anyway. UM and MSU got UND into the Big Sky in the first place. Idaho specifically stated that they didn't have to honor their Big Sky Conference contract if either MSU, UM, or UND were not in the conference. UND is a peer institution for them, and you left UND out just because it is wishful thinking on your part.

Where would you put football? And it wasn't "wishful thinking", it was more of a reflection of the previously noted "Great West". I would be curious about the source of the Idaho intel regarding UND (admittedly not versed in BSC news mill).

[F'N Hawks]

I get what you are saying there but that is just a recognition of what is already fairly apparent so I am not sure I understand how it would affect current FCS?

Are you referring to a possible meshing of G5 and FCS upper 40 or 50 as has been talked about from time to time?

Yes. Everyone is making out the move to "FBS" to be this monumental leap, like Idaho did 20 years ago. When in reality in might be only a move to Tier II as a conference for the Big Sky.

So many variables still that there is no way to label the future yet.

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

https://twitter.com/millerjryan/status/704760039639089152

"I was told in January that if Idaho ends up joining Big Sky, the conference will look at splitting league into two conferences for football."

Unless we could have some sort of championship game between the two conferences of the Big Sky, this idea doesn't seem very good.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Some of these people are on crack.

"The Griz never did anything until Idaho went FBS"

Are they kidding? I knew about Montana back when I was in high school. I remember when Idaho went FBS and I thought that they were nuts. Why are they looking down on the Big Sky option?

Well, it's especially idiotic sicne our first NC was won while Boise and I daho were both still in the conference. xlolx

Their fanbase is hurting and their morons are standing front and center right now apparently.

[BisonFan02]

Unless we could have some sort of championship game between the two conferences of the Big Sky, this idea doesn't seem very good.

Yeah, I read that the same way. Think "deeper"....Great West.

[F'N Hawks]

Where would you put football? And it wasn't "wishful thinking", it was more of a reflection of the previously noted "Great West". I would be curious about the source of the Idaho intel regarding UND (admittedly not versed in BSC news mill).

Idaho wrote it into their contract with the Big Sky, I believe. Ursus may know more about that. I have read the official language before but cannot recall where.

[BisonFan02]

Well, it's especially idiotic sicne our first NC was won while Boise and I daho were both still in the conference. xlolx

Their fanbase is hurting and their morons are standing front and center right now apparently.

That LOL factor of the existing BSC members "running train" on Idaho's football team in the conference schedule will be a treat. xlolx

[F'N Hawks]

Yeah, I read that the same way. Think "deeper"....Great West.

OK, we all have seen the Great West joke. Got it. Time to evolve.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yes. Everyone is making out the move to "FBS" to be this monumental leap, like Idaho did 20 years ago. When in reality in might be only a move to Tier II as a conference for the Big Sky.

So many variables still that there is no way to label the future yet.

Gotcha, nothing to move to it for though at ths point...and that point that I could see unless G5 decided to move in the direction FCS is at and eschew the bowls as the postseason.

No matter what though, it is a long way off I'd think...10 yrs. at least.

[BisonFan02]

OK, we all have seen the Great West joke. Got it. Time to evolve.

or nah? xlolx What's your conference split look like without splitting some golden gooses? Adding UND to my original post, who are you kicking out? Weber? Portland State?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That LOL factor of the existing BSC members "running train" on Idaho's football team in the conference schedule will be a treat. xlolx

Yes. We are also 4-1 against them WHILE they were FBS and that one loss was on a last minute FG. xlolx

[BisonFan02]

Yes. We are also 4-1 against them WHILE they were FBS and that one loss was on a last minute FG. xlolx

Slackers.... xlolx

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

UND would be moving to the Summit before the "Great West" would ever happen. UM, MSU, and Idaho would want UND to be in their conference anyway. UM and MSU got UND into the Big Sky in the first place. Idaho specifically stated that they didn't have to honor their Big Sky Conference contract if either MSU, UM, or UND were not in the conference. UND is a peer institution for them, and you left UND out just because it is wishful thinking on your part.

In my opinion, if push came to shove, UM, msu, and possibly Idaho would probably be more interested in keeping a tighter group with ewu, Portland State, Idaho State. The larger markets of Portland and Spokane stay in the mix, and Idaho gets an in-state rival. Additionally, travel in that group of six is much better. Beyond that I think the value is in the California schools for recruiting reasons, and media markets.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

In my opinion, if push came to shove, UM, msu, and possibly Idaho would probably be more interested in keeping a tighter group with ewu, Portland State, Idaho State. The larger markets of Portland and Spokane stay in the mix, and Idaho gets an in-state rival. Additionally, travel in that group of six is much better. Beyond that I think the value is in the California schools for recruiting reasons, and media markets.

Weber has bball value and was a founding member as well so not sure if that would have some sway or not as well. It would be a real tough situation and lots of schools would not be happy with the split I think.

[BisonFan02]

In my opinion, if push came to shove, UM, msu, and possibly Idaho would probably be more interested in keeping a tighter group with ewu, Portland State, Idaho State. The larger markets of Portland and Spokane stay in the mix, and Idaho gets an in-state rival. Additionally, travel in that group of six is much better. Beyond that I think the value is in the California schools for recruiting reasons, and media markets.

Close to what I had, but you are going to have to "give" a little...I had the Montanas/Idahos/EWU/Portland State locked up with Weber... Pair all of the CA schools with NAU, SUU, NoCo, and UND.

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

Weber has bball value and was a founding member as well so not sure if that would have some sway or not as well. It would be a real tough situation and lots of schools would not be happy with the split I think.

Whoops, Weber slipped my mind. I'm sure they would stick around for the reasons you mentioned.

[BisonFan02]

Weber has bball value and was a founding member as well so not sure if that would have some sway or not as well. It would be a real tough situation and lots of schools would not be happy with the split I think.

Bingo.

To be fair, I don't think a split is happening either as I said in an earlier post (even before this started to get discussed). The BSC doesn't have to do anything to add Idaho...other than get even bigger (with an even more unbalanced schedule).

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

Close to what I had, but you are going to have to "give" a little...I had the Montanas/Idahos/EWU/Portland State locked up with Weber... Pair all of the CA schools with NAU, SUU, NoCo, and UND.

My scenario was more along the lines of the Big Sky completely dropping a few programs and getting back to a more manageable size. If we were to drop to a ten-team league I think this makes the most sense: UM, msu, Idaho, ISU, ewu, Portland St, Weber, Sac, Cal Poly, Davis. NAU would be the wild card in my scenario, and could be interchanged with one of the California schools.

[BisonFan02]

My scenario was more along the lines of the Big Sky completely dropping a few programs and getting back to a more manageable size. If we were to drop to a ten-team league I think this makes the most sense: UM, msu, Idaho, ISU, ewu, Portland St, Weber, Sac, Cal Poly, Davis. NAU would be the wild card in my scenario, and could be interchanged with one of the California schools.

THAT...would be interesting. xlolx

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

THAT...would be interesting. xlolx

I don't see it happening, but in my mind it makes sense.

[F'N Hawks]

I don't see it happening, but in my mind it makes sense.

People are forgetting the school profile part of the equation in all of this. That is a major part and why Idaho demanded the Montana's and UND be in the conference.

[BisonFan02]

People are forgetting the school profile part of the equation in all of this. That is a major part and why Idaho demanded the Montana's and UND be in the conference.

Seriously...I'm going to need a source on this. I get that Idaho is a state land grant school....and I even get the Montana/regional part. By why in the **** would they single out UND and not a school like, say, UC Davis if they were concerned about the "academic" profile?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The NCAA has a growing problem called UMass, Idaho, NMSU and who knows else coming down the pike.

Having these teams compete at a profit as FBS independents is a hopeless exercise. Two of them don't compete in conferences that sponsor football of any kind (the A-10, WAC), and FBS conferences have little incentive anymore to accept football-only members. Yet the NCAA can't force them to reclassify, or at least it has never attempted to do so.

Furthermore, there is no way for 1) a new FBS conference to form, 2) no way for an FCS conference to suddenly be allowed to sponsor FBS football, or 3) no way for an FCS conference to have an "FCS" division and an "FBS" division.

Something's gotta break somewhere.

What could possibly happen is for the definition of FBS to only include all-sports members in a football-sponsoring conference, essentially forcing them to reclassify in that way. Of course, Notre Dame, Army and Navy would say "over our cold, dead bodies".

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The NCAA has a growing problem called UMass, Idaho, NMSU and who knows else coming down the pike.

Having these teams compete at a profit as FBS independents is a hopeless exercise. Two of them don't compete in conferences that sponsor football of any kind (the A-10, WAC), and FBS conferences have little incentive anymore to accept football-only members. Yet the NCAA can't force them to reclassify, or at least it has never attempted to do so.

Furthermore, there is no way for 1) a new FBS conference to form, 2) no way for an FCS conference to suddenly be allowed to sponsor FBS football, or 3) no way for an FCS conference to have an "FCS" division and an "FBS" division.

Something's gotta break somewhere.

What could possibly happen is for the definition of FBS to only include all-sports members in a football-sponsoring conference, essentially forcing them to reclassify in that way. Of course, Notre Dame, Army and Navy would say "over our cold, dead bodies".

Knowing all this, what was the previous post all about then?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Big Sky sponsors 8 team FBS wing and 7+ team FCS wing?

FBS wing: Montana, Montana State, EWU, Idaho, NMSU, Portland State, Cal Poly, UC Davis?

FCS wing: NAU, SUU, NoCo, UND, Weber, Sac State, ISU?

This one, to be exact.

[SactoHornetFan]

Big Sky sponsors 8 team FBS wing and 7+ team FCS wing?

FBS wing: Montana, Montana State, EWU, Idaho, NMSU, Portland State, Cal Poly, UC Davis?

FCS wing: NAU, SUU, NoCo, UND, Weber, Sac State, ISU?

Sac State with a 21K stadium over davis with a 10K stadium. Plus davis faculty will never allow it to go FBS.

[BisonFan02]

Knowing all this, what was the previous post all about then?

A hopeless exercise?

[F'N Hawks]

Seriously...I'm going to need a source on this. I get that Idaho is a state land grant school....and I even get the Montana/regional part. By why in the **** would they single out UND and not a school like, say, UC Davis if they were concerned about the "academic" profile?

Because Davis isn't in the Big Sky Conference. They are an affiliate member of the conference for football.

[BisonFan02]

Because Davis isn't in the Big Sky Conference. They are an affiliate member of the conference for football.

Good point. I'm only thinking about the football portion of it with today's news and not the previous non-football moves.

[SactoHornetFan]

Actually, if both NMSU and UI come to the Big Sky for all sports, I can honestly see the Big Sky doing the same thing to CP and ucd as what the Sun Belt did today.

[IBleedYellow]

Going to be interesting seeing the fallout from this.

Will be awhile before we see anything, though.

[BisonFan02]

Actually, if both NMSU and UI come to the Big Sky for all sports, I can honestly see the Big Sky doing the same thing to CP and ucd as what the Sun Belt did today.

Well....then one of those two could yawn and spend some money to replace Hawaii in the MWC. :D

[nodak651]

Idaho wrote it into their contract with the Big Sky, I believe. Ursus may know more about that. I have read the official language before but cannot recall where.

Got the info from you. Assuming you didn't make up the quote, you should now be able to find it.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22249&stc=1

[BisonFan02]

Got the info from you. Assuming you didn't make up the quote, you should now be able to find it.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22249&stc=1

Interesting....

Devils advocate. Sorry Idaho....UND is gone. Good luck to you and we hope you can find a suitable home for your athletic department. Our phone is always open if you want to revisit.

[IBleedYellow]

Got the info from you. Assuming you didn't make up the quote, you should now be able to find it.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22249&stc=1

Man, I'd love to see the source on that.

I don't know how the team that's out on an island counts as a significant member (no offense UND, you're just not the same as one of the founding members of the Big Sky.)

[nodak651]

Where would you put football? And it wasn't "wishful thinking", it was more of a reflection of the previously noted "Great West". I would be curious about the source of the Idaho intel regarding UND (admittedly not versed in BSC news mill).

I just think it would be more likely that UND ends up in the Summit/MVFC than the "Great West". Maybe a Youngstown or another team would leave - I don't know. I just don't think UND would be involved in a conference like that with the travel and lack of like minded institutions. To each their own though. It's not that big of a deal - we can each have our own opinions.

[nodak651]

Man, I'd love to see the source on that.

I don't know how the team that's out on an island counts as a significant member (no offense UND, you're just not the same as one of the founding members of the Big Sky.)

I'd bet he made it up. I thought I read it in a legit document, but my memory sucks. xoopsx

[BisonFan02]

I'd bet he made it up. I thought a read it from a legit document, but my memory sucks. xoopsx

Who knows. I have no idea how Idaho would have any real leverage to enforce it anyway? What are they going to do...leave the Big Sky?....and go where exactly?

[nodak651]

Who knows. I have no idea how Idaho would have any real leverage to enforce it anyway? What are they going to do...leave the Big Sky?....and go where exactly?

Good point. If true, it would indicate that they would at least want UND to be in their conference, which is the reason I brought it up.

[IBleedYellow]

Good point. If true, it would indicate that they would at least want UND to be in their conference, which is the reason I brought it up.

I don't understand that reasoning. There are better schools closer to Idaho that I would think they would want to be associated with. My opinion, obviously...and I hold the same opinion if the school is NDSU, btw. The Geography just doesn't make sense.

[dgtw]

Would the NCAA approve a Big Sky split since it would create another autobid? Would the split be for all sports?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Knowing all this, what was the previous post all about then?


This one, to be exact.

The reason for this post is: something needs to be done that is not a part of the current status quo to attempt to fix the problem. Whether reclassifying to FCS, making a new FBS conference in any shape of form, something has to change from the status quo.

- - - Updated - - -

Serious question: Is there a possibility of Idaho and NMSU suing the Sun Belt?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Would the NCAA approve a Big Sky split since it would create another autobid? Would the split be for all sports?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No reason not to. The MEAC just gave up theirs so nothing really changes as there are "spares" to go around in the playoff ratio right now. Not that this makes it more likely just that it would not be an impeding factor that I can see.

[nodak651]

I don't understand that reasoning. There are better schools closer to Idaho that I would think they would want to be associated with. My opinion, obviously...and I hold the same opinion if the school is NDSU, btw. The Geography just doesn't make sense.

Fair enough.

My WISHFUL thinking: Idaho, Montana, and MSU want UND to help lure in the other Dakota schools, UNO, and Denver to create an Eastern division of a two division conference. Problem is the Dakotas wouldn't want to leave because they recruit in the MVFC footprint.

In theory, this could create a better conference than either the current Summit/MVFC and Big Sky. If Weber were included, maybe basketball would be good enough for UNI to be interested. Again, wishful thinking.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The reason for this post is: something needs to be done that is not a part of the current status quo to attempt to fix the problem. Whether reclassifying to FCS, making a new FBS conference in any shape of form, something has to change from the status quo.

- - - Updated - - -

Serious question: Is there a possibility of Idaho and NMSU suing the Sun Belt?

LFN, I can see what you would like to do in having the conversation but man you are terrible at laying out the groundwork to get to it.

On your second point, yes, I think they might sue the SBC but not sure it will get them anywhere. I just checked my wall, turns out I'm not much of a lawyer....yet.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Fair enough.

My WISHFUL thinking: Idaho, Montana, and MSU want UND to help lure in the other Dakota schools, UNO, and Denver to create an Eastern division of a two division conference. Problem is the Dakotas wouldn't want to leave because they recruit in the MVFC footprint.

Much more likely that you guys go that way than them coming this way.

[clenz]

Fair enough.

My WISHFUL thinking: Idaho, Montana, and MSU want UND to help lure in the other Dakota schools, UNO, and Denver to create an Eastern division of a two division conference. Problem is the Dakotas wouldn't want to leave because they recruit in the MVFC footprint.

In theory, this could create a better conference than either the current Summit/MVFC and Big Sky. If Weber were included, maybe basketball would be good enough for UNI to be interested. Again, wishful thinking.

Ahahahahahahahahaha


Deep breath


Aahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Passes out


UNI pays its assistant coaches what Summit and Big Sky schools pay their head coaches. UNI isn't moving anywhere from the MVC except up.

[Libertine]

Serious question: Is there a possibility of Idaho and NMSU suing the Sun Belt?

On what grounds? Both Idaho and NMSU signed four-year agreements with the Sun Belt in 2014. This agreement will have run its course after the 2017 season and the Sun Belt is just declining to re-up.

[nodak651]

Ahahahahahahahahaha


Deep breath


Aahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Passes out


UNI pays its assistant coaches what Summit and Big Sky schools pay their head coaches. UNI isn't moving anywhere from the MVC except up.

Whatever man.. You clearly don't understand what "wishful thinking" and "maybe" mean. Have fun in the Missouri Valley after Wichita leaves. It will be just another one bid league. By the way, the Summit and its poverty coaches have a better RPI than the MVC.

Also, in that scenario, have fun playing in a football conference without NDSU, SDSU, and USD. I'm sure that would be realllly fun.

[F'N Hawks]

Ahahahahahahahahaha


Deep breath


Aahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Passes out


UNI pays its assistant coaches what Summit and Big Sky schools pay their head coaches. UNI isn't moving anywhere from the MVC except up.

Congrats. Good luck in the tourney.

[Bisonator]

Got the info from you. Assuming you didn't make up the quote, you should now be able to find it.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22249&stc=1
What does that have to do with now? That's a clause for there entry fee which I assume was completed in 2014. This has nothing to do with any conference changes now. What am I missing here??

[Bisonator]

Ahahahahahahahahaha


Deep breath


Aahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Passes out


UNI pays its assistant coaches what Summit and Big Sky schools pay their head coaches. UNI isn't moving anywhere from the MVC except up.
Ahahahahahahahahaha


Deep breath


Aahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Passes out

[F'N Hawks]

What does that have to do with now? That's a clause for there entry fee which I assume was completed in 2014. This has nothing to do with any conference changes now. What am I missing here??

You can't see how it would relate to UND and Idaho more than likely being in the same conference if there is a shake up?

[nodak651]

What does that have to do with now? That's a clause for there entry fee which I assume was completed in 2014. This has nothing to do with any conference changes now. What am I missing here??

1) There was speculation that the Big Sky might split with the addition of Idaho (if they were to join for football).
2) Somebody suggested that the schools that were in the Great West conference would be grouped together.
3) UND was included with the Great West schools, because it was thought that the Idaho and the Montana schools would not want UND to be in their conference.
4) I gave my opinion by saying I though that UND in that grouping would be unlikely.
5) I cited the Idaho requirement above.
6) Somebody asked for a source.

[Bisonator]

You can't see how it would relate to UND and Idaho more than likely being in the same conference if there is a shake up?

No actually. WTF would they? Nothing in that little clause has anything to do with anything after July 1, 2014.

Now if what you say is actually what they intended they didn't do it with that clause. Is there anything else that says "if at any time UND is not part of the BSC then we will be let out of our commitment to the BSC"?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

On what grounds? Both Idaho and NMSU signed four-year agreements with the Sun Belt in 2014. This agreement will have run its course after the 2017 season and the Sun Belt is just declining to re-up.

I'm not a lawyer but perhaps something along the lines of it being illegal to terminate their agreement because it essentially forces them into a money-hemorrhaging, conference-less situation.

Also the fact that an unofficial future member (Coastal Carolina) was given rights to vote on their status before actually becoming a full member. Also that it took a 2/3rd majority to keep them in the conference, and not a simple majority. I have no idea if these are legitimate or not, which is why I was asking.

[nodak651]

No actually. WTF would they? Nothing in that little clause has anything to do with anything after July 1, 2014.

Now if what you say is actually what they intended they didn't do it with that clause. Is there anything else that says "if at any time UND is not part of the BSC then we will be let out of our commitment to the BSC"?

The whole point is that it shows Idaho has wanted to be in the same conference as UND. It's probably not even real, as he is replying to you and still hasn't bothered to find the original source.

[BisonFan02]

The whole point is that it shows Idaho has wanted to be in the same conference as UND. It's probably not even real, as he is replying to you and still hasn't bothered to find the original source.

Its not real....nor does Idaho have any leverage to wield that power. xlolx

[JSUBison]

I'm not a lawyer but perhaps something along the lines of it being illegal to terminate their agreement because it essentially forces them into a money-hemorrhaging, conference-less situation.

Also the fact that an unofficial future member (Coastal Carolina) was given rights to vote on their status before actually becoming a full member. Also that it took a 2/3rd majority to keep them in the conference, and not a simple majority. I have no idea if these are legitimate or not, which is why I was asking.

There wasn't even a vote. Every school wanted UI and NMSU out.

[nodak651]

Its not real....nor does Idaho have any leverage to wield that power. xlolx

I never said that they would even try. The Idaho requirement contradicts the reasoning in the post below, and that's why I brought it up. That's all.


In my opinion, if push came to shove, UM, msu, and possibly Idaho would probably be more interested in keeping a tighter group with ewu, Portland State, Idaho State. The larger markets of Portland and Spokane stay in the mix, and Idaho gets an in-state rival. Additionally, travel in that group of six is much better. Beyond that I think the value is in the California schools for recruiting reasons, and media markets.

[F'N Hawks]

Its not real....nor does Idaho have any leverage to wield that power. xlolx

Excessive Laughing Emoji Violation. Please come back tomorrow.

[BisonFan02]

Well....lets take this to its natural place...off the rails. :D

Big Sky Conference:

Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Idaho State
Weber State
Portland State
EWU
Cal Poly (Football only)
UC Davis (Football only)
NAU

Summit League:

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
SUU
NoCo
WIU
Denver (Non-Football)
UNO (Non-Football)
ORU (Non-Football)
...plus two "Football only" schools out of the existing MVFC (UNI, SIU, ISUr, etc.....) or elsewhere for a balanced 8 game in conference schedule.

[BisonFan02]

Excessive Laughing Emoji Violation. Please come back tomorrow.

Are you SiouxVolley?

[F'N Hawks]

Are you SiouxVolley?

xlolx No I am not. :D

[RootinFerDukes]

Does Idaho really bring anything to the big sky? What size media market is Moscow, ID? Wouldn't they drag down the conference's average attendance? They would probably be a middle of the pack Big Sky team right out of the gate. I don't know guys. It sounds like just another mouth to feed.

[Thumper 76]

Well....lets take this to its natural place...off the rails. :D

Big Sky Conference:

Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Idaho State
Weber State
Portland State
EWU
Cal Poly (Football only)
UC Davis (Football only)
NAU

Summit League:

NDSU
SDSU
USD
UND
SUU
NoCo
WIU
Denver (Non-Football)
UNO (Non-Football)
ORU (Non-Football)
...plus two "Football only" schools out of the existing MVFC (UNI, SIU, ISUr, etc.....) or elsewhere for a balanced 8 game in conference schedule.

Just lookin to get clenz goin aren't ya xlolx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[clenz]

Get the pot shots while you can. Some day UNI is going to blow this Popsicle joint.

[BisonFan02]

Just lookin to get clenz goin aren't ya xlolx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://weknowmemes.com/generator/uploads/generated/g1408611634525830967.jpg

[BisonFan02]

Get the pot shots while you can. Some day UNI is going to blow this Popsicle joint.

Well, thankfully we have a backup plan don't we? :D

[Laker]

Does Idaho really bring anything to the big sky? What size media market is Moscow, ID? Wouldn't they drag down the conference's average attendance? They would probably be a middle of the pack Big Sky team right out of the gate. I don't know guys. It sounds like just another mouth to feed.

They are in the conference for all other sports. Travel wise it would make sense. Rivalry wise, despite what the hard core Vandal fans say, it would make sense.

[BisonFan02]

They are in the conference for all other sports. Travel wise it would make sense. Rivalry wise, despite what the hard core Vandal fans say, it would make sense.

They've done worse than Idaho. Its a good fit in my opinion.

[nodak651]

Get the pot shots while you can. Some day UNI is going to blow this Popsicle joint.
Ahahahahahahahahaha


Deep breath


Aahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Passes out

[Casey_Orourke]

The reason for this post is: something needs to be done that is not a part of the current status quo to attempt to fix the problem. Whether reclassifying to FCS, making a new FBS conference in any shape of form, something has to change from the status quo.

- - - Updated - - -

Serious question: Is there a possibility of Idaho and NMSU suing the Sun Belt?

I don't think there is because the Idaho forum says the agreement was membership for four years with an option to extend after two years. Idaho and NMSU are still members for the four years, but after that they are out of the conference.

[Casey_Orourke]

double post.

[Casey_Orourke]

I've been reading the Idaho forum the majority of fans are dead set against joining the Big Sky because I read from one article that the payout to a G-5 school from a P-5 for a body bag game is significantly higher that what is paid to an FCS team.

Also, they don't want to give up the revenue sharing that comes from conference participation in bowl games and the shares handed out to all the FBS schools after the CFB playoffs and championship game.

What they are hoping that with the rumors of conference realignments, they will save the shared revenue from the Sunbelt for the next two years, go independent or hope they can find a stable conference to join up with. If nothing else shows up and they are beginning to feel the pinch, then they MIGHT take the Big Sky offer as an EXTREME last resort.

You also get the sense that their is a lot of Boise State envy going on because of their success on the field. They seem to honestly believe if they can stay in the FBS, they will become as successful as BSU.

[Twentysix]

Get the pot shots while you can. Some day UNI is going to blow this Popsicle joint.

The day UNI drops football...

[Laker]

Anyone know what the NM State reaction has been? Try to join the MWC or CUSA? Go FCS and join the Southland? Drop FB?

[ST_Lawson]

Anyone know what the NM State reaction has been? Try to join the MWC or CUSA? Go FCS and join the Southland? Drop FB?

Here's a thread over on their board: http://www.scout.com/college/new-mexico-state/forums/2377-sports-trough/14601353-nmsu-out
Just started reading it, but it looks like most over there who are talking about possible future options are thinking they'll try to be independent for a couple of years and hope that realignment of conferences and "trickle down" will cause someone like the Sun Belt or CUSA to make them an offer. If that doesn't happen, it sounds like some of them are resigned to dropping down to FCS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"UI will now evaluate whether to play an independent schedule or accept and invitation from the Big Sky conference for the fall 2018 season"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcjSVyXW4AA4PMB.jpg:large

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/2016/03/01/sun-belt-votes-proceed-without-nmsu-idaho/81153448/


NMSU President Garrey Carruthers said Sun Belt Conference Commissioner Karl Benson informed him last Wednesday there would not be a vote March 10, as originally planned, regarding NMSU's future in the conference.

“For some reason, they decided to have a telephone conversation with all conference presidents and chancellors and shortly thereafter, Karl Benson gave me a call and gave me the news that they are staying with a 10-team conference,” Carruthers said.

Benson is the kind of guy that would break up with his girlfriend via text.


On Monday, Carruthers said that playing as an FCS program as soon as 2018 would be under serious consideration.

“I think it has to be one of the options,” he said.

[clenz]

http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/2016/03/01/sun-belt-votes-proceed-without-nmsu-idaho/81153448/



Benson is the kind of guy that would break up with his girlfriend via text.
Uh...that's the best way to do it. Then instant block the number.

Don't have to deal with the inevitable crying, cussing, and swinging.

- - - Updated - - -


Here's a thread over on their board: http://www.scout.com/college/new-mexico-state/forums/2377-sports-trough/14601353-nmsu-out
Just started reading it, but it looks like most over there who are talking about possible future options are thinking they'll try to be independent for a couple of years and hope that realignment of conferences and "trickle down" will cause someone like the Sun Belt or CUSA to make them an offer. If that doesn't happen, it sounds like some of them are resigned to dropping down to FCS.
The SBC just dropped them, why would they offer them again?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The SBC just dropped them, why would they offer them again?

They're thinking that the SBC or MWC might get raided again in a domino effect if, say, the ACC plucked UConn from the AAC.

[ST_Lawson]

The SBC just dropped them, why would they offer them again?

I think the idea is that within the next few years, the G5 conferences might poach a few of the "middle-level" FBS teams to get up to 16 team conferences (two divisions of 8 teams each). This would cause the dominoes to start falling, pulling some of the better Sun Belt and CUSA schools up and forcing them to look for more schools to add to keep their numbers up.
Obviously NMSU and Idaho don't make much sense geographically or financially (due to travel costs), but that's kinda the "hope" that some of the fans on those school's message boards are holding on to.

For what it's worth, it looks like the NMSU fans on their message board are a bit more open to the possibility of moving to FCS (maybe Southland, maybe a restructured Big Sky....wherever) than the frequently delusional Idaho fans (who mostly seem to want to try to keep up with Boise State).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Southland seems like the only possible place for the Aggies, right, assuming the Big Sky doesn't break up?

Trying to see what would happen if the Great West sponsored an FCS football conference

Cal Poly SLO
UC Davis
Sac State (affiliate, Big Sky)
NAU (affiliate, Big Sky)
NMSU (affiliate, WAC)
Southern Utah (affiliate, Big Sky)

No way that could survive as Great West 2.0. They'd need at least two more Great West schools to pick up FCS football again, like CS-Northridge, Long Beach State. That ain't happening to my knowledge.

[Laker]

I read an article that said Idaho was in the WAC for other sports. Not a very good job of research.

[Model Citizen]

Idaho and New Mexico are the same, aren't they? Forgettaboutit.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/3/2/11141028/idaho-new-mexico-state-sun-belt-frowny-face


The saddest arrangement in college football is over. After the 2012 death of the WAC and a year as independent teams, Idaho and New Mexico State have spent the past two years as football-only members of the Sun Belt Conference. On Tuesday, the Sun Belt told them they'd be kicked out after the 2017 season.

I'd like to take a moment to explore the intense sadness of college football's two grandest pariahs. This is the second time in five years they've been kicked out into the street. Just when things can't seem to get worse for Idaho and New Mexico State, their latest last chance at survival dries up on them.

Ouch.

[RootinFerDukes]

They are in the conference for all other sports. Travel wise it would make sense. Rivalry wise, despite what the hard core Vandal fans say, it would make sense.

My attempt at tongue in cheek sarcasm didn't work on the Internet haha. Regurgitating the typical fbs fan BS when evaluating who should or shouldn't be a member.

[Professor Chaos]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet but if Idaho does join the Big Sky I hope it splits into two 7 team conferences, at least for football. 14 teams is too many for a single conference without a championship game. Split into two conferences, get that extra playoff autobid, and then have an "alliance" of sorts between the two conferences where, in addition to the 6 games against intra-conference teams, you get 2 guaranteed OOC games scheduled by the conferences (1 home and 1 away) against teams from the other conference leaving schools with 3-4 OOC games per year to fill themselves as it's always been.

[mvemjsunpx]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet but if Idaho does join the Big Sky I hope it splits into two 7 team conferences, at least for football. 14 teams is too many for a single conference without a championship game. Split into two conferences, get that extra playoff autobid, and then have an "alliance" of sorts between the two conferences where, in addition to the 6 games against intra-conference teams, you get 2 guaranteed OOC games scheduled by the conferences (1 home and 1 away) against teams from the other conference leaving schools with 3-4 OOC games per year to fill themselves as it's always been.

Possible, but risky. 7 teams is close to the minimum requirement for auto-bid status. I doubt the conference itself would be interested… don't know about the member schools.

[catamount man]

Idaho needs to swallow some pride and get back in the Big Sky. They will suck as an FBS independent.

[Thumper 76]

They will suck as an FBS independent.

Soooooo what would change from the present exactly?


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[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Soooooo what would change from the present exactly?


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It would officially confirm their insanity.....

[Professor Chaos]

Possible, but risky. 7 teams is close to the minimum requirement for auto-bid status. I doubt the conference itself would be interested… don't know about the member schools.
I'm not suggesting they completely separate. In other sports they can all be consolidated but in football, as long as they have 14, there's little risk in splitting into two 7 team leagues. If the Big Sky loses a team or two, then go back to one consolidated conference.

[BisonFan02]

Idaho needs to swallow some pride and get back in the Big Sky. They will suck as an FBS independent.

Versus sucking as a member of FCS Big Sky?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Versus sucking as a member of FCS Big Sky?

Maybe it's just my time frame from the mid 80's to mid 90's but I really think they would get their footing again and they were always a team that no matter how good yours was...they had a good shot at beating you.

It's possible the last 20 yrs. has just become what their tradition will be but I just think they would get it together.

[BisonFan02]

Maybe it's just my time frame from the mid 80's to mid 90's but I really think they would get their footing again and they were always a team that no matter how good yours was...they had a good shot at beating you.

It's possible the last 20 yrs. has just become what their tradition will be but I just think they would get it together.

Well, gee whiz! I think I've heard a slogan for the above once. :D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Well, gee whiz! I think I've heard a slogan for the above once. :D

?

[BisonFan02]

?

no matter how good yours was...they had a good shot at beating you.

................AGS?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

no matter how good yours was...they had a good shot at beating you.

................AGS?

Ah, gotcha.

[BisonFan02]

Ah, gotcha.

did ya? :D

[Sitting Bull]

Versus sucking as a member of FCS Big Sky?

Its a lot more expensive to suck as an FBS Independent.

[BisonFan02]

Its a lot more expensive to suck as an FBS Independent.

No doubt.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.thespectrum.com/story/sports/2016/03/01/big-sky-could-idaho-footballs-future-after-leaving-sun-belt/81167778/


If the Vandals join, it would put the conference at 14 football playing members — a pretty large number for one automatic qualifying spot. And that’s why the league would consider splitting the league into two conferences for football, if Idaho did join.

“The talk, honestly, is having another football conference,” Loghry said. “Everybody in the Big Sky for all sports, then having an — ala the Missouri Valley or Ohio Valley — a football only conference. So develop something like that for half the teams, and the other half would carry the Big Sky name still. Then you build a schedule among those two conferences.

“To go to divisions is an option, but you are still sharing one AQ,” he continued. “Where if you go into two separate conferences, then you could get an AQ for each one. Seven teams fight for an AQ and seven more fight for another one and you get two or three more in.”

How the conference would split is still unknown. While there have been theories floated around about a possible FBS/FCS split, more likely, the conference would be divided based off geography.

So, an alliance of sorts. I think it only works with 14, though. Any more and you have 7 conference games and at most 2 cross-conference games.

[Libertine]

So one conference in the northwest mountain regions and one conference centered around the Grand Canyon region... the Big Sky conference and the Big Hole conference

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So one conference in the northwest mountain regions and one conference centered around the Grand Canyon region... the Big Sky conference and the Big Hole conference

This means absolutely Grand Canyon U. would have to start football and be that conference's 16th team

[dgtw]

Would they drop any women's sports if they move down?


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[Redbirdz]

Sunbelt should replace Idaho and New Mexico State with Eastern Kentucky and Jacksonville State.

[BisonFan02]

Sunbelt should replace Idaho and New Mexico State with Eastern Kentucky and Jacksonville State.

Starting to look like quite the solid FCS conference with EKU and Jacksonville State joining the likes of Georgia Southern and App State. xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Starting to look like quite the solid FCS conference with EKU and Jacksonville State joining the likes of Georgia Southern and App State. xthumbsupx

and Texas State, GA State, Troy.....

[BisonFan02]

and Texas State, GA State, Troy.....

Well....not anymore. xlolx

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Versus sucking as a member of FCS Big Sky?

Sad that this is the general thought of both teams. They's rather suck as FBS than FCS. Unlike teams that want to actually succeed.... .somewhere.....

[clenz]

and Texas State, GA State, Troy.....
And CCU...

[BisonFan02]

And CCU...

Blow up the Sunbelt and make two 9-10 team FCS leagues out of public SoCoN schools and Southland teams.

"FCSEC" or whatever you wanna name it:

App State
WCU
Georgia Southern
CCU
GA State
Jacksonville State
South Alabama
Troy
Chatty


"Bayou League" or whatever

UL-Lafayette
UL-Monroe
McNeese State
SELA
Arkansas State
UCA
SHSU
Texas State
SFA
Lamar



or nah? :D

[Borat]

The legality of the rules is always a sticking point. There used to be a rule saying a school had to have a 30k seat stadium. There were rumblings that a lawsuit could result in a judgement against the NCAA if a school pushed the issue. The rule was just too arbitrary. If a 250 student college built a 30k seat stadium, how does that prove they could be FBS? That was the reason for the switch to an attendance requirement.

What CCU and GA St are doing are using the transition period to prove they can meet the FBS requirements. They have two years to do so. Honestly, I don't know why the FBS is allowing GA St to complete it's move up. I'm okay with all the rest(even CCU), but GA St is a joke. But it's really a balancing act. Make the rules too lenient, and you get a flood of schools moving up in a modern-day gold rush. Too restrictive, and you leave the subdivision open to litigation. The recent change to force schools to have a conference invite before moving up is just another step in the ongoing tightrope walk.

Do you understand the conditions of a move from FCS to FBS? Teams moving up are not eligible to play for the FCS championship during their final year in FCS, and are ineligible to play in a bowl game during their first year in FBS. You know Georgia State played in a bowl game in 2015, right? Was that enough to "prove they can meet FBS requirements"? Yeah, going to a bowl game is a "joke."

[Bisonoline]

Do you understand the conditions of a move from FCS to FBS? Teams moving up are not eligible to play for the FCS championship during their final year in FCS, and are ineligible to play in a bowl game during their first year in FBS. You know Georgia State played in a bowl game in 2015, right? Was that enough to "prove they can meet FBS requirements"? Yeah, going to a bowl game is a "joke."

Yeah its pretty much a joke when you need a waiver on the # of required wins to play in the game.

[RootinFerDukes]

Yeah its pretty much a joke when you need a waiver on the # of required wins to play in the game.

Let's not forget that 80 of 128 teams went to a bowl game/playoff this year. It's a series of participation trophies.

[dgtw]

Yeah its pretty much a joke when you need a waiver on the # of required wins to play in the game.

To he fair, Georgia State did not need a waiver. Though I agree the number of bowls is a joke.


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[Lehigh Football Nation]

More importantly, how much did it cost Georgia State to participate in a pre-New Year's bowl?

[Borat]

More importantly, how much did it cost Georgia State to participate in a pre-New Year's bowl?

Since this appears to be of importance to you, please tell us how much they paid to participate in a pre-New Year's Bowl. You've piqued my curiosity.

[Borat]

Let's not forget that 80 of 128 teams went to a bowl game/playoff this year. It's a series of participation trophies.


So teams should have declined bowl invitations? Is that your point?

[Thumper 76]

So teams should have declined bowl invitations? Is that your point?

I think his point is making a bowl game and bragging about it when you have a trash record it's like bragging about getting a participation ribbon.


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[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think his point is making a bowl game and bragging about it when you have a trash record it's like bragging about getting a participation ribbon.


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Exactly. That one should be easy to see really.

It epitomizes the entire FBS move up thing if you ask me. "Hey, we're FBS, we are the top level and Michigan, Notre Dame, USC, Texas, & ... are our peers!"

"hey, we're bowl champions!"

are ya

Every year 1/3 of FBS can claim be a bowl victor, 2/3 can say they made a bowl game. It does not mean ****, but it is a claim you can make no matter how empty it may be.

Pretending costs money. It doesn't mean much to the real FBS schools with the fans, the ability, and the facilities to make it happen. It's not a rigged game, it is just a matter of trying to live in a neighborhood you are not suited to afford.

At some point you probably have to stop pretending. Hence, Idaho.

[Bisonoline]

Exactly. That one should be easy to see really.

It epitomizes the entire FBS move up thing if you ask me. "Hey, we're FBS, we are the top level and Michigan, Notre Dame, USC, Texas, & ... are our peers!"

"hey, we're bowl champions!"

are ya

Every year 1/3 of FBS can claim be a bowl victor, 2/3 can say they made a bowl game. It does not mean ****, but it is a claim you can make no matter how empty it may be.

Pretending costs money. It doesn't mean much to the real FBS schools with the fans, the ability, and the facilities to make it happen. It's not a rigged game, it is just a matter of trying to live in a neighborhood you are not suited to afford.

At some point you probably have to stop pretending. Hence, Idaho.

We have mucho boner bongo from some who claim we are D1 and cant understand that FCS isnt on the same level as FBS. Dammit we are D1!!!! Short dick syndrome.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Exactly. That one should be easy to see really.

It epitomizes the entire FBS move up thing if you ask me. "Hey, we're FBS, we are the top level and Michigan, Notre Dame, USC, Texas, & ... are our peers!"

"hey, we're bowl champions!"

are ya

Every year 1/3 of FBS can claim be a bowl victor, 2/3 can say they made a bowl game. It does not mean ****, but it is a claim you can make no matter how empty it may be.

Pretending costs money. It doesn't mean much to the real FBS schools with the fans, the ability, and the facilities to make it happen. It's not a rigged game, it is just a matter of trying to live in a neighborhood you are not suited to afford.

At some point you probably have to stop pretending. Hence, Idaho.

I've agreed with all of this for the years. The problem with smaller schools staying in FCS markets is media coverage. Media coverage is your commercial. Schools like Montana and NDSU don't gain this benefit like ODU, App, GS, and Coastal. The schools who really don't represent FBS are the 20 or so at the top of the P5 conferences. The rest of P5 and G5 are much closer in attendance and budgets and the top of FCS are there as well. I loved I-AA/FCS for 25 years while I watched the NCAA and TV Networks (ESPN) steadily decrease support and coverage. The 2001 change in seeding 16 teams and using 9/11 to justify it was particularly egregious.

It's unfortunate and unfair on many levels, but the fact remains that FCS creates image problems for many schools who need to explain their DI status to recruits in other sports and educate football recruits about FCS. Then there's the challenge of "keeping up with the Jones'". We watched Troy, Middle Tenn, Western Ky, Marshall getting much more attention and 3 Florida schools start programs followed by South Alabama, ODU, Ga St., and Charlotte. All of those schools recruit in our backyard. I look at the SoCon now and thank God we made it out when we did.

The mid-west, west, and northeast don't have the same issues as the southeast. The Big Sky and MVC could easily be FBS conferences like the MAC, SBC, and CUSA. Some of the CAA have the money, but college football just isn't popular enough in those huge markets to get butts in the seats of smaller schools. I can share with you that our new "NC game" is to make it to a New Year's Six Bowl which would bring a huge payday and publicity. Rest assured App and GS success has shut the mouths of some G5 fans who poo-pooed our reclassification complaining that "FCS move-ups can't compete". We know there are many FCS schools who can beat FBS schools.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I've agreed with all of this for the years. The problem with smaller schools staying in FCS markets is media coverage. Media coverage is your commercial. Schools like Montana and NDSU don't gain this benefit like ODU, App, GS, and Coastal. The schools who really don't represent FBS are the 20 or so at the top of the P5 conferences. The rest of P5 and G5 are much closer in attendance and budgets and the top of FCS are there as well. I loved I-AA/FCS for 25 years while I watched the NCAA and TV Networks (ESPN) steadily decrease support and coverage. The 2001 change in seeding 16 teams and using 9/11 to justify it was particularly egregious.

It's unfortunate and unfair on many levels, but the fact remains that FCS creates image problems for many schools who need to explain their DI status to recruits in other sports and educate football recruits about FCS. Then there's the challenge of "keeping up with the Jones'". We watched Troy, Middle Tenn, Western Ky, Marshall getting much more attention and 3 Florida schools start programs followed by South Alabama, ODU, Ga St., and Charlotte. All of those schools recruit in our backyard. I look at the SoCon now and thank God we made it out when we did.

The mid-west, west, and northeast don't have the same issues as the southeast. The Big Sky and MVC could easily be FBS conferences like the MAC, SBC, and CUSA. Some of the CAA have the money, but college football just isn't popular enough in those huge markets to get butts in the seats of smaller schools. I can share with you that our new "NC game" is to make it to a New Year's Six Bowl which would bring a huge payday and publicity. Rest assured App and GS success has shut the mouths of some G5 fans who poo-pooed our reclassification complaining that "FCS move-ups can't compete". We know there are many FCS schools who can beat FBS schools.

That's a great post EC. I do know that a lot of what you say is seen as a problem by man. My perspective just can't comprehend that someone would see Troy as something better than what App, or GSU was at the time they were FCS. I just feel sorry dullards that know so little but I'm not willing to engage them too much for fear of mental depletion.

My post you quoted is basically aimed at that group though so I apparently can test the water a bit.:D

[BisonFan02]

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/co...e2990148a.html (http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/big-sky-conference/fullerton-proud-of-tenure-as-big-sky-commissioner/article_2d2dcd92-112f-5cb0-9169-9b0e2990148a.html)

Some comments from Fullerton....Tony over at Bisonville dug this up, and I think its interesting.


“Our next challenge is to hold together internally. We’re a little bit diverse and we’re real big, and that can be a recipe for a split within the conference — if you let it happen.
“I’m trying to really push the presidents in my last four months to do something dynamic that preempts that. It involves looking at (Idaho and New Mexico State) and maybe looking at having two leagues and managing them with one group — things that have never really been done before but would, I think, solidify the Big Sky Conference for the next 20 years.”


Fullerton is proud of his relationship with the presidents of each Big Sky institution. But the biggest regret of his tenure occurred when he couldn’t convince the presidents to add North Dakota State to the league a decade ago.“Some of the presidents just couldn’t see the vision,” he said. “To me, conference membership is always a presidential issues, much more than it is an athletic director issue. So I let it go and I’m sorry that I did, because I think it would have elevated everybody in the league. I probably should have been more forceful.”

Fullerton has made no bones about his desire to bring Sun Belt Conference castoffs Idaho and New Mexico State to the Big Sky for football. Idaho is already a Big Sky member for all other sports.

I tend to agree with him about the presidents versus AD comment, but I would hope that each institution has active communication/understanding between the president and AD. I think that relationship within NDSU has been one of the keys to their success.

Its probably unrelated, but I'm curious if his biggest regret (NDSU) isn't steering him to push harder on Idaho and NMSU as well. I will be curious to see what direction the new commish takes as well.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/co...e2990148a.html (http://billingsgazette.com/sports/college/big-sky-conference/fullerton-proud-of-tenure-as-big-sky-commissioner/article_2d2dcd92-112f-5cb0-9169-9b0e2990148a.html)

Some comments from Fullerton....Tony over at Bisonville dug this up, and I think its interesting.





I tend to agree with him about the presidents versus AD comment, but I would hope that each institution has active communication/understanding between the president and AD. I think that relationship within NDSU has been one of the keys to their success.

Its probably unrelated, but I'm curious if his biggest regret (NDSU) isn't steering him to push harder on Idaho and NMSU as well. I will be curious to see what direction the new commish takes as well.

Previously, from what I understand, it was Montana and MSU that were behind him on the NDSU push so back then he did not have as much traction as compared to what he will have now I would think. I doubt there is any, and I mean any school that would be against Idaho coming back right now. It might take some persauding with an NMSU push but I am not sure on that one.

IOW, he may push harder but I really don't think he will have to push at all for at least one of them.

Thanks for adding the quotes though as I had not seen them yet, I appreciate it.

[BisonFan02]

Previously, from what I understand, it was Montana and MSU that were behind him on the NDSU push so back then he did not have as much traction as compared to what he will have now I would think. I doubt there is any, and I mean any school that would be against Idaho coming back right now. It might take some persauding with an NMSU push but I am not sure on that one.

IOW, he may push harder but I really don't think he will have to push at all for at least one of them.

Thanks for adding the quotes though as I had not seen them yet, I appreciate it.

Agree about Idaho. I'm thinking the geographic conversation/concerns (post Great West and UND) have softened since the conversation about NDSU. I don't know if I agree about league growth stabilizing the league....but that's just my opinion.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Agree about Idaho. I'm thinking the geographic conversation/concerns (post Great West and UND) have softened since the conversation about NDSU. I don't know if I agree about league growth stabilizing the league....but that's just my opinion.

Oh, I think that last line you made is dead on. It is/can be stabilizing until you add that one team that makes it unstable. That is what I think NMSU might be. I could be completely off base with this but once you add them it makes a geo fracture much more likely I would think.

[BisonFan02]

Oh, I think that last line you made is dead on. It is/can be stabilizing until you add that one team that makes it unstable. That is what I think NMSU might be. I could be completely off base with this but once you add them it makes a geo fracture much more likely I would think.

I agree. A new precedent would have to be set though. When was the last time an entire new conference was formed by the split of an existing one? I would have to think it would be all sports too? If it wasn't a split....you would have a glut of teams looking for new/existing homes.

[Laker]

I agree. A new precedent would have to be set though. When was the last time an entire new conference was formed by the split of an existing one? I would have to think it would be all sports too? If it wasn't a split....you would have a glut of teams looking for new/existing homes.

Well, the Mountain West was started from the WAC in 1999 after the merger of the Big Eight and half of the Southwest formed the Big Twelve.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_West_Conference

[BisonFan02]

Well, the Mountain West was started from the WAC in 1999 after the merger of the Big Eight and half of the Southwest formed the Big Twelve.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_West_Conference

Ah, oh yeah. Still though....I'm not thinking its as clean as a 1 to 2 conference move. Some schools will end up getting caught between a rock and a hard place or chaos as noted in your post.

[SDFS]

Oh, I think that last line you made is dead on. It is/can be stabilizing until you add that one team that makes it unstable. That is what I think NMSU might be. I could be completely off base with this but once you add them it makes a geo fracture much more likely I would think.

I am not sure that everything is geo.. I have heard Fullerton talk about like schools as in research schools versus other types (not saying one is better than the other). The Big Sky has a split with research type/mission:

R2 research schools: NAU, UNC, MSU, UM, UND and PSU. UI and NMSU are both R2 schools, plus Cal-Davis* is R1.
Non R2 schools: WSU, EWU, ISU, Sac St, SUU, Cal-Poly*

Not saying that is how they would split, but an additional way to look at things.

[superman7515]

I agree. A new precedent would have to be set though. When was the last time an entire new conference was formed by the split of an existing one?

The Big East splitting into the Big East & American Athletic was the latest example, so to answer your question, the last time was 2013.

[BisonFan02]

The Big East splitting into the Big East & American Athletic was the latest example, so to answer your question, the last time was 2013.

Does the Big East still have football?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Something to keep in mind about this is the rule that teams has to be together five years as a unit in order to qualify for an FCS autobid.

If, say, NAU, SUU, Northern Colorado, Cal Poly, UC Davis and Sac State broke off to form their own football conference, they would qualify for an autobid automatically.

However if Idaho "joined" a new conference with five other former/associate Big Sky members, the new conference would not.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Something to keep in mind about this is the rule that teams has to be together five years as a unit in order to qualify for an FCS autobid.

If, say, NAU, SUU, Northern Colorado, Cal Poly, UC Davis and Sac State broke off to form their own football conference, they would qualify for an autobid automatically.

However if Idaho "joined" a new conference with five other former/associate Big Sky members, the new conference would not.

Idaho would not be in any split off conference. NMSU is the one that would be looking that way if they were brought on board.

Take the original 6 you posted and add NMSU is what I was thinking could be getting some people to start thinking that might be the way to go.

[IBleedYellow]

Does the Big East still have football?
Yes, they are called the American Athletic Conference.

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[BisonFan02]

Yes, they are called the American Athletic Conference.

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Yup....rhetorical question. I knew the answer. xthumbsupx I was looking for "football conference A" splits in half and becomes "football conference B" and "football conference C"....not "Football conference A" splits and becomes "Football conference A-ish" and "Private yuppie round ball extravaganza". :D

[Casey_Orourke]

I was checking out the FCS Stats videos on Youtube about FCS stability. Craig Haley was mentioning that the FCS commissioners were looking at the possible upcoming changes in the FBS. One thing he said that if the P-5 decides to break off on their own, he sees the possibility of a merger between the G-5 and the FCS top conferences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQsgQZ2oK54&index=43&list=PLf_jDLi7fslPc7dP5XdvGC8RQM-Grg7Fj

[BisonFan02]

I was checking out the FCS Stats videos on Youtube about FCS stability. Craig Haley was mentioning that the FCS commissioners were looking at the possible upcoming changes in the FBS. One thing he said that if the P-5 decides to break off on their own, he sees the possibility of a merger between the G-5 and the FCS top conferences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQsgQZ2oK54&index=43&list=PLf_jDLi7fslPc7dP5XdvGC8RQM-Grg7Fj

Its imminent.....winter is coming...or nah?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I was checking out the FCS Stats videos on Youtube about FCS stability. Craig Haley was mentioning that the FCS commissioners were looking at the possible upcoming changes in the FBS. One thing he said that if the P-5 decides to break off on their own, he sees the possibility of a merger between the G-5 and the FCS top conferences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQsgQZ2oK54&index=43&list=PLf_jDLi7fslPc7dP5XdvGC8RQM-Grg7Fj

That isn't a new idea as you probably know cuz it's bandied about here for about a long time but I don't think I've ever seen either TSN or now STATS talk about it too much.


On watching that it was from last summer so I guess they had mentioned it previously. xlolx

[BisonFan02]

That isn't a new idea as you probably know cuz it's bandied about here for about a long time but I don't think I've ever seen either TSN or now STATS talk about it too much.


On watching that it was from last summer so I guess they had mentioned it previously. xlolx

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/terminal01/2011/4/1/17/enhanced-buzz-28872-1301694311-1.jpg

[Hammersmith]

Something to keep in mind about this is the rule that teams has to be together five years as a unit in order to qualify for an FCS autobid.

If, say, NAU, SUU, Northern Colorado, Cal Poly, UC Davis and Sac State broke off to form their own football conference, they would qualify for an autobid automatically.

However if Idaho "joined" a new conference with five other former/associate Big Sky members, the new conference would not.

Two years for FCS, not five.

[superman7515]

Does the Big East still have football?

No, but that isn't what you asked. You asked "When was the last time an entire new conference was formed by the split of an existing one?"

[superman7515]

I was checking out the FCS Stats videos on Youtube about FCS stability. Craig Haley was mentioning that the FCS commissioners were looking at the possible upcoming changes in the FBS. One thing he said that if the P-5 decides to break off on their own, he sees the possibility of a merger between the G-5 and the FCS top conferences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQsgQZ2oK54&index=43&list=PLf_jDLi7fslPc7dP5XdvGC8RQM-Grg7Fj

Wishful thinking. It's been "imminent" for the last decade.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Wishful thinking. It's been "imminent" for the last decade.

Well, if it does happen then it was. Some can just see farther into the future and it changes the perspective on imminent. Actually I think most people bandying this about have normally stated it in a range of 5 to 10 yrs. after the P5 says goodbye so that is a bit of a qualifier there as well. It will not even probably happen that quickly as whatever plans on TV money would need to expire first would be the real starting point I would think.

[clenz]

Well, if it does happen then it was. Some can just see farther into the future and it changes the perspective on imminent. Actually I think most people bandying this about have normally stated it in a range of 5 to 10 yrs. after the P5 says goodbye so that is a bit of a qualifier there as well. It will not even probably happen that quickly as whatever plans on TV money would need to expire first would be the real starting point I would think.
The range I've always heard as being the time frame is sometime between 2018-2023

Yes, that's a big range but it's also pretty damn close in the big picture.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Well, if it does happen then it was. Some can just see farther into the future and it changes the perspective on imminent. Actually I think most people bandying this about have normally stated it in a range of 5 to 10 yrs. after the P5 says goodbye so that is a bit of a qualifier there as well. It will not even probably happen that quickly as whatever plans on TV money would need to expire first would be the real starting point I would think.

There were supposed to be a couple "wink and a nod" type smilies in that first couple sentences also supey so that was intended as humor in case it didn't come off too clear.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The P5 won't break off unless they decide they don't need schools like SFA in March Madness. Personally I don't see it happening. The unique circumstances behind the rise of the P5 as a formidable financial entity are coming to a close, as ESPN, FOX and others reevaluate their business models.

Look no further than the Longhorn Network as to the future. LHN is about this close from having the plug pulled. Others will follow over the next five to ten years.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The range I've always heard as being the time frame is sometime between 2018-2023

Yes, that's a big range but it's also pretty damn close in the big picture.

Yeah, around this place you see so many people tweaking everything with "what ifs" and so forth it gets really muddled really quickly but if you sat back and put some thought into it that doesn't seem too far fetched if it were to happen except that I think the money train will still give the G5 a reason to stay with what they got for a decade unless something very appealing to some of them occurs.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The P5 won't break off unless they decide they don't need schools like SFA in March Madness. Personally I don't see it happening. The unique circumstances behind the rise of the P5 as a formidable financial entity are coming to a close, as ESPN, FOX and others reevaluate their business models.

Look no further than the Longhorn Network as to the future. LHN is about this close from having the plug pulled. Others will follow over the next five to ten years.

Very possible. It also very possible that it is a football only deal as has been discussed many times and is a presumption that I think a lot of us go on.

[Bisonator]

The P5 won't break off unless they decide they don't need schools like SFA in March Madness. Personally I don't see it happening. The unique circumstances behind the rise of the P5 as a formidable financial entity are coming to a close, as ESPN, FOX and others reevaluate their business models.

Look no further than the Longhorn Network as to the future. LHN is about this close from having the plug pulled. Others will follow over the next five to ten years.
I agree unless the P5 comes up with a scheduling model that would not require the G5 a complete break isn't going to happen.

I beleive the current BB tourney TV contract expires in 2023 and the FB contract expires in 2024. Probably won't hear much until 2020 at the earliest.

[Bisonoline]

The P5 won't break off unless they decide they don't need schools like SFA in March Madness. Personally I don't see it happening. The unique circumstances behind the rise of the P5 as a formidable financial entity are coming to a close, as ESPN, FOX and others reevaluate their business models.

Look no further than the Longhorn Network as to the future. LHN is about this close from having the plug pulled. Others will follow over the next five to ten years.

Slowly but surely the P5 is positioning its self to be autonomous in FB but still gets to suck on the NCAA money teet for BB. When it finally becomes a realization many are going to wonder how this all happened. The P5 will still be under the NCAA umbrella but almost strictly as administrators.

[superman7515]

There were supposed to be a couple "wink and a nod" type smilies in that first couple sentences also supey so that was intended as humor in case it didn't come off too clear.

Too late. I'm easily offended and will be taking my ball and going home until Holy Cross gets into the Big East.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Too late. I'm easily offended and will be taking my ball and going home until Holy Cross gets into the Big East.

That's understandable. I fault clenz and only clenz for this btw.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Slowly but surely the P5 is positioning its self to be autonomous in FB but still gets to suck on the NCAA money teet for BB. When it finally becomes a realization many are going to wonder how this all happened. The P5 will still be under the NCAA umbrella but almost strictly as administrators.

They are a huge portion of what makes that money bucket as big as it is for the BB tourney though so if they were to fully break away it ****s them and the rest of us. The BB tourney is a mutually beneficial product that no one will want to disturb which is why I agree with the basis of what you got going on there.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I'm not convinced that TV revenues are going to start dwindling for the major conferences, but I can tell you this…if that happens as some here seem to think you can forget about a P5 split in football. The P5s are not going to forego home games with G5 and FCS teams for an all-P5 schedule if it won't pay off in a big way as far as TV money. If the TV money spigot dries put hat just makes individual school revenues more important than conference-based revenues.

[superman7515]

I'm not convinced that TV revenues are going to start dwindling for the major conferences, but I can tell you this…if that happens as some here seem to think you can forget about a P5 split in football. The P5s are not going to forego home games with G5 and FCS teams for an all-P5 schedule if it won't pay off in a big way as far as TV money. If the TV money spigot dries put hat just makes individual school revenues more important than conference-based revenues.

It's possible they could be forced to start cutting back on the spending. ESPN in the last year has cut 100's of employees, been moved to smaller/more versatile sets that can be used for multiple programs, let go many of their well known personalities like Olbermann, Simmons, and Cowherd, and were reportedly admonished by their Disney overlords for paying $1.9 billion a year just for the right to broadcast Monday Night Football, offering $500 million more than the next-closest bidder, and then trippling what they were paying the NBA, all while their subscriber rates dropped and people pushed for more a la carte options that would allow non-sports fans to drop the pricey ESPN packages from their bills.

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/5627cd349dd7cc10008c39b6-800-600/01.png

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/562f7c40bd86efa15c8b9d78-800-600/03.png

[SUPharmacist]

I'm not convinced that TV revenues are going to start dwindling for the major conferences, but I can tell you this…if that happens as some here seem to think you can forget about a P5 split in football. The P5s are not going to forego home games with G5 and FCS teams for an all-P5 schedule if it won't pay off in a big way as far as TV money. If the TV money spigot dries put hat just makes individual school revenues more important than conference-based revenues.

Does this ever lead to a return of more regional matchups for P5 programs against more local schools from the G5 or FCS. I figure that could draw more interest in OOC, or is it still too big a risk of embarrassment when the lower programs won or are too competitive.

[RootinFerDukes]

I was checking out the FCS Stats videos on Youtube about FCS stability. Craig Haley was mentioning that the FCS commissioners were looking at the possible upcoming changes in the FBS. One thing he said that if the P-5 decides to break off on their own, he sees the possibility of a merger between the G-5 and the FCS top conferences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQsgQZ2oK54&index=43&list=PLf_jDLi7fslPc7dP5XdvGC8RQM-Grg7Fj

Which I personally welcome with open arms. Let's be honest, the P5 are already on another level and are all but their own division, even compared to the G5.
It's about time our divisional levels reflected reality.
With that being said, I find this hard to believe that the G5 schools will swallow their pride and associate with "those division 2 schools down there". I just can't see there being a consensus to merge. They'll be content to be their own new second subdivision of D1 football while the current Fcs becomes "FDS".

[SUUTbird]

Resurrecting this thread as I was glancing over the Vandal forum and there was a bit of chatter saying going to the Big Sky is a done deal, has anyone else heard anything about this? I know the deadline for the announcement is May 4th.

[superman7515]

Related to my above comment, the cost-cutting at ESPN continues as Skip Bayless will leave when his contract expires after the NBA Finals. Reports are that they could not reach an agreement on a significant pay cut.

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2016/04/espn-statement-about-skip-bayless/?preview=true

[Thumper 76]

Related to my above comment, the cost-cutting at ESPN continues as Skip Bayless will leave when his contract expires after the NBA Finals. Reports are that they could not reach an agreement on a significant pay cut.

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2016/04/espn-statement-about-skip-bayless/?preview=true

Best comment I saw about that was on Twitter when a guy said "And it's not even my birthday yet"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I usually don't pay that much attention to message boards, but it sure looks like something is up.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

https://www.thevandalnation.com/football-looming-deadline/


Staben said remaining in the FBS without a conference would prove difficult for the program.

“Independent is a very difficult status,” he said. “We will evaluate options, but we’ve been independent before, and it is not an easy way to schedule games and maintain a program and ensure stability.”


At the March 1 press conference, Idaho Athletic Director Rob Spear said he had not ruled out an opportunity for the Idaho football program to find a regional FBS conference.


“We will explore all options, and I really believe that there is an opportunity out west for another type of league,” he said. “That is another challenge for our department certainly, but it’s not a challenge that we haven’t faced before and we will work through it and select the best option moving forward for the University of Idaho.


Spear also discussed the possibility of reaching out to the Western Athletic Conference (WAC) to assess the feasibility of renewing football with the league in an interview with GoVandals.net last month.

Former football members of the WAC disbanded in 2012, after a number of universities accepted invitations to the Mountain West Conference (MWC), Conference USA and the Sun Belt Conference.


In a phone call Tuesday afternoon, WAC Commissioner Jeff Hurd would not confirm if a communication had taken place between the conference and the University of Idaho. Hurd declined to comment on the situation, citing confidentiality concerns.


The University of Idaho has also considered accepting a football membership with the Big Sky Conference as an FCS program.


Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton said he has not received any updates from Idaho on the institution’s decision.

“No one has said a word to me,” Fullerton said. “I’m glad to be able to tell you that truthfully, because that would really put me on the spot with people if they gave it to me in confidence. But quite frankly, I have had no comment with them.”

The WAC can't re institute football, or so I thought. What's Staben playing at?

[ccd494]

The WAC can't re institute football, or so I thought. What's Staben playing at?

Why not?

If UT-RGV has Mack Brown chairing a committee on adding the sport, that's three with Idaho and NMSU. Grand Canyon certainly has the money. That's four. The remaining schools range from unlikely to start football (Seattle, Utah Valley, UMKC) to very, very unlikely (CSU Bakersfield) to no chance in hell (Chicago State).

So, they then need to start looking around for other schools to join the conference. Maybe Texas State would rather be in a southwestern conference than a southeastern. Maybe Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word (already affiliate members) want to elevate their programs. Maybe Abilene Christian. Maybe some current D-2's want to move up.

The viability of this is obviously an ongoing question. NCAA bylaws say a conference can't unilaterally move from FCS to FBS. Well, that's not what the WAC would be doing. If they can convince the rest of the FBS voting members this is a good idea, it isn't like this would open the floodgates for the CAA or MVFC or whoever to come along. They'd just say the WAC was a dormant FBS conference.

They already are stretching to fill all the bowls, adding another few programs would get them there AND let the cities that want bowls but are caught by the moratorium add them and pay ESPN/the NCAA their money.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why not?

If UT-RGV has Mack Brown chairing a committee on adding the sport, that's three with Idaho and NMSU. Grand Canyon certainly has the money. That's four. The remaining schools range from unlikely to start football (Seattle, Utah Valley, UMKC) to very, very unlikely (CSU Bakersfield) to no chance in hell (Chicago State).

So, they then need to start looking around for other schools to join the conference. Maybe Texas State would rather be in a southwestern conference than a southeastern. Maybe Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word (already affiliate members) want to elevate their programs. Maybe Abilene Christian. Maybe some current D-2's want to move up.

The viability of this is obviously an ongoing question. NCAA bylaws say a conference can't unilaterally move from FCS to FBS. Well, that's not what the WAC would be doing. If they can convince the rest of the FBS voting members this is a good idea, it isn't like this would open the floodgates for the CAA or MVFC or whoever to come along. They'd just say the WAC was a dormant FBS conference.

They already are stretching to fill all the bowls, adding another few programs would get them there AND let the cities that want bowls but are caught by the moratorium add them and pay ESPN/the NCAA their money.

My hot takes on this:

1. The NCAA and the P5 in particular loathe GCU and almost certainly, IMVHO, would block any effort to have them sponsor FBS football. They're already extremely unsettled at the fact that they're D-I at all.

2. The Texas State scenario seems interesting, and might make some sense if that's indeed the strategy.

3. If they were casting around for FCS schools, I'd have to think Cal Poly and UC Davis would have to be on the shortlist. If geography is no object, add Liberty as well.

4. The WAC pulling something like this off would not only overturn at least thirty years of precedent and royally piss off the other members of the G5 (and no conference more than the Sun Belt), it would also recreate the WAC as a zombie conference for schools with FBS ambitions, something I'm not all that sure the P5 really wants.

[Herder]

Playing FBS football is a survival of the fittest scenario. If Idaho and NMSU have not been able to survive, the rest of the FBS should be under no obligation to allow them to circumvent the rules and start a bad fledgling FBS conf. As for Rio Grande, they need to be looking for a real, existing conference if they are serious about moving FBS.

There are plenty of FCS conference which requested the ability to move the entire conf to the FBS level, and were told flattly NO. If I'm the CAA, I start talking to my lawyers if other conference are being allowed to do what they were told they could not. A lot of money has been spent by CAA schools struggling through the FBS transition.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/723208444879106048/0c-NaIQs_normal.jpg
Dave Southorn @IDS_Southorn
(https://twitter.com/IDS_Southorn)University of Idaho President Chuck Staben will make an announcement on the Vandals' football future affiliation tomorrow at 11 am MT.

[ST_Lawson]

Football Scoop is saying they're going to be dropping to FCS: http://footballscoop.com/news/source-idaho-to-drop-to-fcs/

[RootinFerDukes]

I welcome the vandals back to Fcs. It will be better for them in the long run, even if their handful of fans refuse to acknowledge that.
Whoever remains after some refuse to support a "D2 school" will be loyal and appreciate the meaningful football against regional opponents.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I welcome the vandals back to Fcs. It will be better for them in the long run, even if their handful of fans refuse to acknowledge that.
Whoever remains after some refuse to support a "D2 school" will be loyal and appreciate the meaningful football against regional opponents.

Well put. I'll be honest. They had a whole lot of dick fans back when they were FCS so I don't think it can hurt to eschew some of them as it is.

There were a lot of good ones too so hopefully those types are the ones that stay.