UNI at NDSU: Quaterfinal REMATCH!

[BisoNick]

Can you call a fair catch on a place kick? I think you can only fair catch a punt.

Jay said that if the ball is kicked into the ground, due to a recent rule, a receiving player may call a fair catch, unless I misunderstood him.

I think I answered my own question. I missed the 'if the receiver is in position to catch it' part at the end of Jay's post.


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[JayJ79]

So if an NDSU player would have called fair catch even though no one was near the ball, would it have been illegal touching if he stayed in bounds?

the rule states that they have to be "in position for a catch", so I'm guessing they would have to be near the ball.

Rule 6-4-1-f (from the 2014-2015 FB rulebook, at least)

f. During a free kick a player of the receiving team in position to receive the
ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection whether the ball is
kicked directly off the tee or is immediately driven to the ground, strikes the
ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly
off the tee.

[JayJ79]

Can you call a fair catch on a place kick? I think you can only fair catch a punt.

rule 6-5-1-c:

c. Rules pertaining to a fair catch apply only when a scrimmage kick crosses
the neutral zone or during free kicks.

kickoffs are "free kicks". Punts are "scrimmage kicks". Not entirely sure what FG attempts are (I'm guessing a different type of scrimmage kick), but I can't really think of any situation in which a player would want to fair catch a FG attempt.

[JayJ79]

also, according to ADAA Continuation Rule 113D, if a dodgeball player steps on the line during his or her throw, it is a double fault and forces a sudden death overtime.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7F-Go8ELS4

[Professor Chaos]

also, according to ADAA Continuation Rule 113D, if a dodgeball player steps on the line during his or her throw, it is a double fault and forces a sudden death overtime.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7F-Go8ELS4
****in Chuck Norris!!!

[BisoNick]

****in Chuck Norris!!!

Effin' a cotton! Effin' a!


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[Sycamore62]

The ball has to touch the ground on a kickoff. There is nowhere on the field a ref wouldn't say a
receiver was in position to catch the ball (functionally of course). A FG is a scrimmage kick same as a punt. The same rules apply as far as blocking, catching, returning.

If if you fair catch a kick you always have the option to free kick it and if it it goes thru the upright it is 3 points. I've heard of it working once and I think I saw it tried once

[PantherRob82]

Touche'. :)

Douche' xlolx

[Houndawg]

The ball has to touch the ground on a kickoff. There is nowhere on the field a ref wouldn't say a
receiver was in position to catch the ball (functionally of course). A FG is a scrimmage kick same as a punt. The same rules apply as far as blocking, catching, returning.

If if you fair catch a kick you always have the option to free kick it and if it it goes thru the upright it is 3 points. I've heard of it working once and I think I saw it tried once

Has to touch the ground on a kickoff? That must be newer, back in the day a kickoff could be fair caught.

[Houndawg]

Can you call a fair catch on a place kick? I think you can only fair catch a punt.

You can return a fg so you must be able to fair catch one if you wanted to for some weird reason.

[Missingnumber7]

Let me clear up some confusion on the onside kick. First the rule:



ARTICLE 3. a. No Team A player may touch a free-kicked ball until after:

1. It touches a Team B
player (Exception: Rules 6-1-4 and 6-5-1-b);

2. It breaks the plane of
and remains beyond Team B's restraining line
(Exception: Rule 6-4-1) (A.R. 2.12.5.I); or

3. It touches any player, the ground, an official
or anything beyond Team B's restraining line.




ARTICLE 1. a. A player of the receiving team within the boundary
lines attempting to catch a kick, and so located that he could have caught a
free kick or a scrimmage kick that is beyond the neutral zone, must be given an
unimpeded opportunity to catch the kick (A.R. 6.3.1.III, A.R. 6.4.1.V and IX).


b. It is an interference foul if, before the
receiver touches the ball, a Team A player enters the area defined by the width
of the receiver’s shoulders and extending one yard in front of him. When in
question it is a foul. (A.R. 6.4.1.X-XIII)


c. This protection terminates when the kick
touches the ground (Exception: Free kick, par. f below), when any player of Team
B muffs or touches a scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone, or when any player
of Team B muffs or touches a free kick in the field of play or in the end zone
(Exception: Rule 6-5-1-b) (A.R. 6.4.1.IV).


d. If interference with a potential receiver is the result of a player being
blocked by an opponent, it is not a foul.


e. It is an interference foul if the kicking team
contacts the potential receiver before, or simultaneous to, his first touching
the ball (A.R. 6.4.1.II, III, and VIII). When in question, it is an interference
foul.


f. During a free kick a player of the receiving team in position to receive
the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection whether the ball is
kicked directly off the tee or is immediately driven to the ground, strikes the
ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off
the tee.


g. Contact by Team A involving a targeting foul
(Rules 9-1-3 and 9-1-4) or other personal foul that interferes with the receiver’s
opportunity to catch a kick may be ruled either as interference or as a
targeting or personal foul. The 15-yard penalty is enforced at the spot where
the dead ball belongs to Team B or at the spot of the foul, at the option of
Team B.


PENALTY [a-g]—For foul between the goal lines: Receiving team’s ball,
first down, 15 yards beyond the spot of the foul for an interference foul [S33].
For foul behind the goal line: Award a touchback and penalize from the
succeeding spot. Flagrant offenders shall be disqualified [S47].





III. Beyond the neutral zone A1 is standing or running between a kick in
flight and B1, and (a) A1 is struck by the ball while B1 is in a position to
catch the ball; or (b) B1, in attempting to catch the ball, bumps into A1.

RULING: Kick-catch interference. Penalty - (a) and (b): 15
yards at the spot of the foul.

V. A Team A player beyond the neutral zone first touches or catches a
scrimmage kick that no receiver could have caught while it was in flight.

RULING: Illegal touching but not interference.



The only exception to the rule on the ball being place at the spot where it was fair caught is if the catch is made and the team B player is out of bounds, it would then become a kick out of bounds and they could take the 5 yard penalty and move it forward 5 and kick it from there.

[MacThor]

I'm confused. Happens a lot on Mondays.

If the receiving team can fair catch anything, why don't they do that on every onside kick and give themselves a nice halo?

[Professor Chaos]

I'm confused. Happens a lot on Mondays.

If the receiving team can fair catch anything, why don't they do that on every onside kick and give themselves a nice halo?
Good question. My guess is that the key terms are the ball can only hit the ground once and has to go into the air "in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee".

Most onside kicks will skip along the ground a few times before popping up in the air. Some kickers are probably good enough to hit the ball directly into the ground with such force that it would immediately bounce so high up that the coverage team can beat the ball to the spot before it lands. In this scenario the bolded rule above would allow the return team to protect themselves with a fair catch.

[Missingnumber7]

Good question. My guess is that the key terms are the ball can only hit the ground once and has to go into the air "in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee".

Most onside kicks will skip along the ground a few times before popping up in the air. Some kickers are probably good enough to hit the ball directly into the ground with such force that it would immediately bounce so high up that the coverage team can beat the ball to the spot before it lands. In this scenario the bolded rule above would allow the return team to protect themselves with a fair catch.

You would be exactly correct. You cannot fair catch a kick that has been grounded more than once. In fact when they put 6 officials on the sidelines between the teams, the officials on the 40 are watching for the second bounce.

[clenz]

Well a team that lost 99% of it's offense coming into the year, couldn't decide what offense to run, was eliminated from the playoffs 5 weeks into the season, and still had a dog **** offense at the end of the season made it to the quarters.

I'm still upset about a loss, but after week 5 had you told me you'd have NDSU on the ropes in the second half in Fargo during the quarters I'd have taken it.

Lose Hall, Kilfoy and Dorleant on the back end of that D, and that sucks. 6 of the front 7 are back though and I think 4 of them were sophomores or freshman.

Maybe this spring/summer and next fall Farley will pick a system and a QB and build around it, rather than band aid an offense together.

I've long said UNI will never win a title, especially with Farley at the helm, but I've changed my opinion. People, mostly NDSU, like to make fun of the painted walls, create "participation ribbons", etc... The fact is Farley has UNI at a place that all but about 2 or 3 other FCS schools would trade anything to be at. UNI has 16 conference titles in 32 years of playing D1 football. I haven't looked but the number but UNI has produces more All Conference, All American and Conference POY under Farley than any other program (hell, I think that still holds true going back to only when NDSU/SDSU joined the league).

I did some looking to see what level UNI is at compared the rest of the FCS

In the last 30 years only 15 different teams have won an NCAA title - Only 9 of those teams remain FCS, only about 4 or 5 of those are worth a damn anymore.
NDSU, Youngstown, Nova, Richmond, Eastern Wash, James Madison, Delaware, Montana, Furman.

From that list UD, YSU, and Furman have fallen into complete obscurity. UR and JMU were good this year but since their titles have been hit or miss. EWU and Montana are solid. NDSU is NDSU, and Nova is a wait and see with how the post Robertson and how long Talley sticks around.

Only 7 other teams have even ever PLAYED in a title game the last 30 years, by my admittedly potentially wrong count - UNI, Illinois State, Towson, SHSU, McNeese, Colgate, and SFA - who had to vacate their appearance.

Of those programs:
-SFA has never really recovered to anything. They went 11-2 in 1995 and then lost 70-14 to Montana in the semi's. 3 playoff trips since that 95 team - 1 and done in 2 of them. Only twice they won more than 8 games
-Illinois State rode their best teams in their programs history. We'll see how they look moving forward, but are traditionally a 6-5/7-4 team with no other post season success. I think they've only been to the post season 3 or 4 times outside of the last two years.
-Towson - see Illinois State's run with Coprich but with T. West. Other than that they are a bottom half CAA team.
-Colgate had a nice run this year, but aren't remotely close to a power.
-McNeese - essentially a "light version" of UNI.
-SHSU was nothing before 2011 but man have the found some sort of magic.


NDSU has something that no one else, outside of Montana, has/can get. Good for them. UNI will get a title. Farley will get a title. It might take more time, but it will happen.

[UNIFanSince1983]

We actually lose 6 DBs. As Young, Feldspach, and Webb were all seniors as well.

We will have to see how some of the guys with very limited minutes respond to more minutes next year, but I think next year looks pretty good still!

[BisonBacker]

I was reading a few posts in this thread and won't quote any but felt a reply was needed. As to fans being pricks, every fan base has a few assholes NDSU is no exception. As to how our guests are treated you ask any and most will tell you they were treated great. Very few will be able to give you a negative comment. To those who have had crap happen to them and it wasn't made up that's unfortunate and not representative of who we are as fans in general. Alcohol does things to people who are already IQ challenged. But in response to the posts in this thread by some posters I read this yesterday. Don't try to live in a glass house it never ends well.

http://mcfeely.areavoices.com/2015/12/14/lesson-of-the-day-every-fan-base-has-its-idiots/

[blueballs]

Great game to watch and excellent effort by both teams! UNI and NDSU seemed to be almost mirror images of each other.

[BisonBacker]

I have a great deal of respect for UNI. They always bring it when they play NDSU. Consistently one of if not thee toughest game in the Valley for NDSU.

[AmsterBison]

Great game to watch and excellent effort by both teams! UNI and NDSU seemed to be almost mirror images of each other.

UNI could be pretty good next year too. They have to replace four seniors in the secondary, but their front 7 is pretty dang good.

[Gil Dobie]

UNI could be pretty good next year too. They have to replace four seniors in the secondary, but their front 7 is pretty dang good.

A pretty good QB emerged out of the 7 also. :)

[clenz]

A pretty good QB emerged out of the 7 also. :)
The issue is the QB they moved to WR (Demos) has already been told he will move back to QB in the spring to fight for the job. Dunne will be a rSoph fighting for the job. Bailey is back. The kid from Chicago that moved to WR is likely to be moved back to QB after redshirting this year to fight for the job.

It will be a 4 way cluster **** through spring and fall again....to put UNI right back to where it was this year until week 7

[Professor Chaos]

The issue is the QB they moved to WR (Demos) has already been told he will move back to QB in the spring to fight for the job. Dunne will be a rSoph fighting for the job. Bailey is back. The kid from Chicago that moved to WR is likely to be moved back to QB after redshirting this year to fight for the job.

It will be a 4 way cluster **** through spring and fall again....to put UNI right back to where it was this year until week 7
Seems like an overreaction to me to throw all these guys into a QB competition. Bailey is a really dynamic player. If they're not going to start him at QB or if they're going to make him split time at QB they're better off playing him at RB. But, unless I'm mistaken, that's what Illinois wanted to do with him also and is the reason he transferred.

UNI had a really good team this year so I'm not sure why they wouldn't continue riding the duo of Bailey and Smith next year. Oh well, I guess it's their team to do what they want to with.

[clenz]

Seems like an overreaction to me to throw all these guys into a QB competition. Bailey is a really dynamic player. If they're not going to start him at QB or if they're going to make him split time at QB they're better off playing him at RB. But, unless I'm mistaken, that's what Illinois wanted to do with him also and is the reason he transferred.

UNI had a really good team this year so I'm not sure why they wouldn't continue riding the duo of Bailey and Smith next year. Oh well, I guess it's their team to do what they want to with.He left UNI because he wanted to play QB.

Can't move him to RB because Tyvis is back.

If they commit a full off season to him the offense will be fine. They have to be willing to let him throw, though.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I think the staff would be stupid to not go all in on Bailey after the way this season ended and the way he progressed.

Now as Clenz said they need to let the man pass the football. He has proven he is capable as a passer. They need to run pass plays that fit his strengths as a passer. They did that at times this year, but I think they tightened up a little bit at NDSU and were too afraid to let him pass.

[Professor Chaos]

He left UNI because he wanted to play QB.

Can't move him to RB because Tyvis is back.

If they commit a full off season to him the offense will be fine. They have to be willing to let him throw, though.
You mean he left Illinois because he wanted to play QB right?

I think it would be easier to give him more carries as RB1a (with Smith as RB1) than it would to have him split time at QB. I'm going to assume UNI will still want to run the ball 40+ times per game next year so there's plenty of carries to go around.

I agree with committing to him as their QB going forward though, the guy was the MVFC newcomer of the year and set a league record for rushing yards by a QB for crying out loud. I would think he's earned the right to keep the job going into spring ball.

[clenz]

I think the staff would be stupid to not go all in on Bailey after the way this season ended and the way he progressed.

Now as Clenz said they need to let the man pass the football. He has proven he is capable as a passer. They need to run pass plays that fit his strengths as a passer. They did that at times this year, but I think they tightened up a little bit at NDSU and were too afraid to let him pass.
They need to impliment the Florida offense from the Tim Tebow days.

There was times they did this year - pistol set, Tyvis behind at 8 yards, Malloy and Miller to his sides. They'd run triple option, counter, student body, lead option, throw back pass, jump pass, etc... out of it and it worked every time.

That's the type of offense that needs to happen

[clenz]

You mean he left Illinois because he wanted to play QB right?

I think it would be easier to give him more carries as RB1a (with Smith as RB1) than it would to have him split time at QB. I'm going to assume UNI will still want to run the ball 40-50 times per game next year so there's plenty of carries to go around.

I agree with committing to him as their QB going forward though, the guy was the MVFC newcomer of the year and set a league record for rushing yards by a QB for crying out loud. I would think he's earned the right to keep the job going into spring ball.
Yeah, well, Saywer set pretty much every freshman passing record at UNI (and conference I believe), was on pace to break every UNI and conference record...and then...well...we saw how that was handled, even before his concussions.

[NDSUFREAK]

For as much of a rival I consider UNI now I actually would like to see them win a national championship sometime soon. Can't and won't say the same for und.

[Drblankstare]

I know we all like to poke fun at the UNI's coaches for the way they handle their Offense, but if they open up the QB spot for competiton in the spring, I consider that crimanally stupid. Bailey can be scary good given the time.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

He left UNI because he wanted to play QB.

Can't move him to RB because Tyvis is back.

If they commit a full off season to him the offense will be fine. They have to be willing to let him throw, though.


This here.

The kid is a special talent. If the OC/Farley do not keep him the starter, that is a tragedy. Ride Bailey/Smith in the running game and open up the passing game.....then rely on a tough ass defense. It works!

I know UNI fans have said this for years but holy crap, UNI has near the top talent or best talent in the Valley and do not utilize it effectively.

Farley said it himself in the post game presser....UNI is just as good as NDSU.....and they are.

[NDSU_grad]

I think the staff would be stupid to not go all in on Bailey after the way this season ended and the way he progressed.

Now as Clenz said they need to let the man pass the football. He has proven he is capable as a passer. They need to run pass plays that fit his strengths as a passer. They did that at times this year, but I think they tightened up a little bit at NDSU and were too afraid to let him pass.
After your guys first drive on Saturday I told my wife we were going to lose; I was expecting a 31-10 type game for UNI. Then UNI completely went away from what got that first TD. Maybe NDSU d made some adjustments to take away that short passing game, I don't know. My point is, stick with Bailey, develop an offense to fit his strengths and you guys could be scary good.

[gregatim]

After your guys first drive on Saturday I told my wife we were going to lose; I was expecting a 31-10 type game for UNI. Then UNI completely went away from what got that first TD. Maybe NDSU d made some adjustments to take away that short passing game, I don't know. My point is, stick with Bailey, develop an offense to fit his strengths and you guys could be scary good.

NDSU made adjustments to a different look UNI was giving. If you recall that first drive, our defense was confused and seemed to be talking to each other a lot before the snap, and many times didn't look ready when the ball was snapped. After that first drive, the defense made the adjustment but UNI never adjusted play calling. It was apparent they were going to keep swinging for the fence running Bailey and Smith. Why they didn't give a guy with the athleticism and speed he has some run/pass option or roll out plays is absolutely baffling to me. At least make the defenders in space make a decision on what to give him.