Playoff Selection Criteria

[Professor Chaos]

I thought this deserved it's own thread because I found it really interesting. The Grand Forks Herald published a pretty extensive interview with selection committee chair and Tennessee Tech AD Mark Wilson about the selection process. Give it a read: http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-football/3890049-college-football-selection-chair-explains-playoff-process

A few things I found of particular interest:

They do claim to use the SRS as a guideline as their equivalent to the RPI for basketball
The three factors they look at are quality wins, strength of schedule, and bad losses
Not all FBS wins are equal
The at large teams are selected by a secret electronic vote after they've had their discussions
When asked about whether they take into account injuries to star players (particularly QBs) Wilson said that they do and people "would be scared" if thew knew how much the selection committee knew


And of course the big point of contention (or "whine" as many have called it):


Q. NDSU fans are upset that five Missouri Valley teams are on the same half of the draw. How does the seeding process and regionalization process work?

A. After we select the field, we seed the teams. After we put the seeds in, we do match up the teams with geographic proximity in mind to control costs of the championship. If they are within 400 miles, you can bus them. We do look at the first round and how it can be fed into the second round.


I thought there's a lot of great stuff in there that may have been hashed out in various places before but puts it all in one place which I thought was nice. I still would like to know what the process is to seed the teams, if that's by secret vote also or if they have a more open discussion to do that.

[melloware13]

For the travel part, I know I'd be willing to pay a bit more for playoff tickets if it meant they could bring more interesting cross-sectional match-ups. Delaware's playoff avg. attendance is 10-15k, so even a $10 bump gives $100k-150k extra (75% to the NCAA would be $75k-$112,500 to spend on travel). Then again, I've spent a total of $0 on playoff tickets since I was in band in 2010.

[deez_na]

Yeah I don't care for the way they do the regionalizing crap. NDSU basically was NOT award by being the 3 seed. Realistically i think SDSU should be playing Charleston Southern next round not NDSU if they were to win of course. Whatever though, it is what it is and it will feel that much sweeter if we make it back to Frisco.

[UNIFanSince1983]

NDSU hasn't lost to SDSU since 2009 including 2 playoff games. So one could argue that NDSU benefits from getting to play SDSU in the playoffs. ;)

[deez_na]

NDSU hasn't lost to SDSU since 2009 including 2 playoff games. So one could argue that NDSU benefits from getting to play SDSU in the playoffs. ;)

Yeah but it hasn't been easy against them by any means. They are solid when they are on their game.

[tomq04]

SDSU is due!

[X-Factor]

SDSU is due!
For another epic meltdown of course ;)

I will also add that we have been hearing this from SDSU fans for 5 or 6 years. There seems to be a never ending supply of reasons why "this is their year". Of course they are going to win one eventually, nobody knows when though.

[Thumper 76]

SDSU is due!

Just the thought of what last years team might have accomplished had there been a little less time left in the game last year in Fargo makes me sick. Someday we have to win in Fargo.....someday.

[Professor Chaos]

Just the thought of what last years team might have accomplished had there been a little less time left in the game last year in Fargo makes me sick. Someday we have to win in Fargo.....someday.
If USD can do it....

[Bisonator]

Just the thought of what last years team might have accomplished had there been a little less time left in the game last year in Fargo makes me sick. Someday we have to win in Fargo.....someday.

Ummm you guys had the ball at the end of the game but thru a pick. How much less time are you talking about like 2 1/2 minutes???xlolx

[RabidRabbit]

Hopefully, it isn't another 45 year drought in wins in Fargo. Last one was WAY to long ago. A) Jacks need to get rid of goose egg wins vs Montana first. B) Then, and ONLY then, do the Jacks need to play the perfect game vs Bison. Hopefully, Coach Stig gets better, more innovative plays called than in most other games.

Jacks are "due", just like they were for a seed. 1-0 each week from here til Jan.

[JayJ79]

Wilson said that ... people "would be scared" if they knew how much the selection committee knew

They see you when you're sleeping
They know when you're awake
They know if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake!

[Thumper 76]

Ummm you guys had the ball at the end of the game but thru a pick. How much less time are you talking about like 2 1/2 minutes???xlolx

Hey. You and your facts stay out of my emotional trauma xlolx

[melloware13]

NDSU hasn't lost to SDSU since 2009 including 2 playoff games. So one could argue that NDSU benefits from getting to play SDSU in the playoffs. ;)

There hasn't been a championship in Frisco without at least one team that beat SDSU in that season (UD 2010, NDSU 2011-14, ISUr 2014). To continue, either UNI, NDSU, or WIU has to make it, while ISUr would not have a chance.

[dewey]

There hasn't been a championship in Frisco without at least one team that beat SDSU in that season (UD 2010, NDSU 2011-14, ISUr 2014). To continue, either UNI, NDSU, or WIU has to make it, while ISUr would not have a chance.

Don't forget Montana who beat SDSU in the 2009 playoffs before they eventually lost in the championship game to Villanova. Granted the game wasn't in Frisco but if you want to make the title game beat the Jackrabbits.

Dewey

[Bisonator]

Don't forget Montana who beat SDSU in the 2009 playoffs before they eventually lost in the championship game to Villanova. Granted the game wasn't in Frisco but if you want to make the title game beat the Jackrabbits.

Dewey

Haha that's the secret alright. They shouldn't have any trouble scheduling OOC games!:D

[Thumper 76]

There hasn't been a championship in Frisco without at least one team that beat SDSU in that season (UD 2010, NDSU 2011-14, ISUr 2014). To continue, either UNI, NDSU, or WIU has to make it, while ISUr would not have a chance.

Wow. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

[MTfan4life]

A few things I found of particular interest:

They do claim to use the SRS as a guideline as their equivalent to the RPI for basketball
The three factors they look at are quality wins, strength of schedule, and bad losses
Not all FBS wins are equal
The at large teams are selected by a secret electronic vote after they've had their discussions
When asked about whether they take into account injuries to star players (particularly QBs) Wilson said that they do and people "would be scared" if thew knew how much the selection committee knew


Judging by this, here's the Portland State vs. James Madison argument:

Quality wins? Well, Portland State beat an 8-3 Pac 12 team, slaughtered a terrible but still FBS opponent, roughed up playoff qualifier Montana, and also beat Southern Utah. "Yeah, but James Madison beat 2-9 SMU by 3 so they're better!!" Even Delaware has more quality wins than JMU, though? "Doesn't matter. Vad Lee is the best player in the FCS."
What about major injuries? Portland State doesn't really have any key injuries and James Madison is missing their QB Vad Lee. "I don't think he was any good, though, so they shouldn't deserve to lose any spots without him. In fact, I think they should jump up in the seeding for that reason!"

Now how about Richmond vs. Charleston Southern, who should be seeded higher? Well CSU beat both Coastal Carolina and The Citadel and also have zero FCS losses. How many FCS losses does Richmond have? "I don't know, but I really like spiders, so let's put Richmond ahead of CSU. Also, do you think anyone would notice if we put James Madison at #2? I mean, who else in the field beat Delaware?"

[Professor Chaos]

Judging by this, here's the Portland State vs. James Madison argument:

Quality wins? Well, Portland State beat an 8-3 Pac 12 team, slaughtered a terrible but still FBS opponent, roughed up playoff qualifier Montana, and also beat Southern Utah. "Yeah, but James Madison beat 2-9 SMU by 3 so they're better!!" Even Delaware has more quality wins than JMU, though? "Doesn't matter. Vad Lee is the best player in the FCS."
What about major injuries? Portland State doesn't really have any key injuries and James Madison is missing their QB Vad Lee. "I don't think he was any good, though, so they shouldn't deserve to lose any spots without him. In fact, I think they should jump up in the seeding for that reason!"

Now how about Richmond vs. Charleston Southern, who should be seeded higher? Well CSU beat both Coastal Carolina and The Citadel and also have zero FCS losses. How many FCS losses does Richmond have? "I don't know, but I really like spiders, so let's put Richmond ahead of CSU. Also, do you think anyone would notice if we put James Madison at #2? I mean, who else in the field beat Delaware?"
I agree, the seeding was very suspect. And he never really said that seeding uses the same process as selecting the teams so I'm curious if that really is the case. I think its more important to get the seeds right than it is to get the last couple teams in right. Those last few teams in and first few teams out aren't likely to make a lot of noise in the tournament anyway but the seeds really do affect the make up of late rounds quite a bit which goes a long way towards affecting the outcome of the tournament.

To your points above, it sure seemed like the committee weighed bad losses (which both PSU and Richmond had) as more important than good wins in several places.

[JSUSoutherner]

Yeah I don't care for the way they do the regionalizing crap. NDSU basically was NOT award by being the 3 seed. Realistically i think SDSU should be playing Charleston Southern next round not NDSU if they were to win of course. Whatever though, it is what it is and it will feel that much sweeter if we make it back to Frisco.
They just want a JSU vs. *insert MVC team that survives the slugfest here* matchup in Frisco. xthumbsupx

[X-Factor]

They just want a JSU vs. *insert MVC team that survives the slugfest here* matchup in Frisco. xthumbsupx
Correct. I think the realization is that if they had split up the MVFC it would turn out like last year.

[JSUSoutherner]

Incorrect. ;)

[X-Factor]

The great part about this disagreement is that we will soon find out how this rodeo ends.

[JSUSoutherner]

I know, I can't wait. Unless it ends like last year....... then I can definitely wait.

[KPSUL]

[QUOTE=

To your points above, it sure seemed like the committee weighed bad losses (which both PSU and Richmond had) as more important than good wins in several places.[/QUOTE]

On this point Your off your usual objective and fair-minded game a bit Professor.

Richmond had "bad" losses? They lost to (6-5) Villanova by one point on the road, outgaining them by almost 150 yards. Villanova had a brief, maybe two game period, after the loss of QB Robertson when the struggled, but by the time they played Richmond they were a solid team. The only other loss was also close, @ 7-4 UNH which has a 12 game home conference winning streak and is in the playoffs. The JMU @ UNH game was also very close with both teams gaining the exact same 468 yards. Richmond lost both games primarily on turnovers.
NDSU loss to (5-6) South Dakota AT HOME is significantly worse than either of Richmond's FCS losses.

[centennial]

Incorrect. ;)

All this bravado would come down when you play good teams every week. For now all we know about JSU is that you lost a game against a good team in Auburn. Till you show you can take out good teams every week no one will respect you.

[Milktruck74]

I know it is probably unlikely, but what if the MVFC doesn't have a rep in Frisco???? Will you guys SHUT YOUR CAKE HOLE!!!! Just kidding, but the rest of us can dream.

[JSUSoutherner]

All this bravado would come down when you play good teams every week. For now all we know about JSU is that you lost a game against a good team in Auburn. Till you show you can take out good teams every week no one will respect you.

What about when we don't need 35 second margins to win? Does that help?

[RootinFerDukes]

I'm not sure where to put this and I didn't want to start a thread for it.
What is the criteria that ESPN uses to determine who gets the televised games in the quarter and semifinal rounds? I believe they've just selected the two highest remaining seeds in the past, but are there exceptions to that? Who gets Friday and Saturday games? Bigger network?
I've tried to search for a past bracket that lists the TV games, but I haven't had any luck.

[Professor Chaos]

I'm not sure where to put this and I didn't want to start a thread for it.
What is the criteria that ESPN uses to determine who gets the televised games in the quarter and semifinal rounds? I believe they've just selected the two highest remaining seeds in the past, but are there exceptions to that? Who gets Friday and Saturday games? Bigger network?
I've tried to search for a past bracket that lists the TV games, but I haven't had any luck.
IMO it has very little to do with seeds and much more to do with atmosphere/storylines. That's why places like Montana and NDSU have hosted TV games so frequently in the past. I'd suspect with the success of Gameday at JMU they'd be looked at favorably in that light as well.

It seems like for quarterfinal weekend the 12PM ET spot on Saturday on ESPN is the big spot and for semifinal weekend the 8PM ET spot on ESPN2 is the big spot. So generally you see the "juiciest" matchup for each respective weekend in those spots it seems.

[RootinFerDukes]

The thing is the past few years ndsu was either 1 or 2. Unh got the other last year. I remember odu getting one game but they were 2. I think they got the bigger network game than the 1 seed that week though. I'm sure their tv market was a factor to the ESPN exec.

[Professor Chaos]

The thing is the past few years ndsu was either 1 or 2. Unh got the other last year. I remember odu getting one game but they were 2. I think they got the bigger network game than the 1 seed that week though. I'm sure their tv market was a factor to the ESPN exec.
Yeah, I guess seeding does come into play somewhat but I think its behind the atmosphere and storylines of a game when they determine the TV spots.