Colgate-UNH

[ColgateTD]

What do posters think of the upcoming game in Durham? UNH beat us earlier this season, something like 26-6, but 'Gate is much improved now, particularly their D. Their maturation over the year has been a work in progress, but they came out unbeaten against PL foes and have multiple players on the 1st and 2nd PL all-star teams. Plus Dan Hunt is COTY. Should be an interesting contest on a field known as the graveyard of visiting teams. It's about time the Raiders enjoyed a positive experience in NH.

[Catsfan90]

For the past two years a PL team has visited Durham in the playoffs and lost. The difference between those two years and this year is our level of talent.

Last year we were stacked on almost every position and itnwas a no contest. This year is a much different story. Colgate is much improved and will be coming to Durham with a chip on their shoulder. UNH has been proven this year to be very beatable and I wouldn't be surprised at all of this game was extremely close. Unfortunately UNH is extremely hard to beat at home and I think that is what gives us the edge.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

UNH is also improved from that game back in September. Kyon Taylor back in the WR rotation has added a lot to the offense.

But the biggest question is whether this thread can rival the one from the Lafayette game two years ago!

[UNHWildcat18]

UNH is also improved from that game back in September. Kyon Taylor back in the WR rotation has added a lot to the offense.

But the biggest question is whether this thread can rival the one from the Lafayette game two years ago!

I really hope not... Simply because the Lehigh and Lafayette posters will slowly turn the game thread into a thread about the times they enjoyed moving their kids into campus during the 1950s and how the football teams were good back then. UNH is better on both sides of the ball UNH wins 34-21

[PantherRob82]

Since Colgate improved, I'm going 45-10 'gate. ;)

[DC 'gater]

'gate is due vs. UNH. right??? 30-24

[Stonewall D]

Colgate might just upset New Hampshire. But UNH is hard to beat at home.

[CFBfan]

I really hope not... Simply because the Lehigh and Lafayette posters will slowly turn the game thread into a thread about the times they enjoyed moving their kids into campus during the 1950s and how the football teams were good back then. UNH is better on both sides of the ball UNH wins 34-21

+1

[Ivytalk]

UNH 26, Colgate 17.

[Mattymc727]

34-14 UNH

[KPSUL]

What do posters think of the upcoming game in Durham? UNH beat us earlier this season, something like 26-6, but 'Gate is much improved now, particularly their D. Their maturation over the year has been a work in progress, but they came out unbeaten against PL foes and have multiple players on the 1st and 2nd PL all-star teams. Plus Dan Hunt is COTY. Should be an interesting contest on a field known as the graveyard of visiting teams. It's about time the Raiders enjoyed a positive experience in NH.

If you want a positive experience, stop and eat dinner at Newick's on Dover Point after the game and order the fisherman's platter and a Sam Adams. Don't expect it at the Dungeon.

[Pards Rule]

If you want a positive experience, stop and eat dinner at Newick's on Dover Point after the game and order the fisherman's platter and a Sam Adams. Don't expect it at the Dungeon.

KPSUL is that the place overlooking the lake? Im nearly 1000% certain that was the place I ate at following the 2013 playoff game..HUGHGGGEE (as the Donald would say) dining room! Great food and reasonable prices. Highly recommend. Unfortunately I got there after sunset :(

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think Colgate will put forth their best playoff performance since 2003 but it won't be enough....

UNH 38 Colgate 27

[KPSUL]

KPSUL is that the place overlooking the lake? Im nearly 1000% certain that was the place I ate at following the 2013 playoff game..HUGHGGGEE (as the Donald would say) dining room! Great food and reasonable prices. Highly recommend. Unfortunately I got there after sunset :(

It's called a bay, Great Bay, for you landlubbers. 1972 décor, gravel parking lot, I'm sure you got the right place.

[caribbeanhen]

I think Colgate will put forth their best playoff performance since 2003 but it won't be enough....

UNH 38 Colgate 27

this is Colgate's chance to start another shocking run to the finals haha

But I wouldn't be shocked if they beat UNH, if Delaware can do it no reason Coal got tea cant do it either

[Pards Rule]

It's called a bay, Great Bay, for you landlubbers. 1972 décor, gravel parking lot, I'm sure you got the right place.

Yep indeed it was Newicks on Great Bay (at least I didn't call it a pond!). Loved the 1972 décor as I grew up in the 70s and have an affinity for that time! Red carpet, dark wood and red vinyl seats! If they would only show Rockford Files reruns on the TV there. Is Madbury Commons finished yet? What is going in there? There was a sign announcing it off the Durham rotary when I was there on a cold but sunny day on Nov. 30, 2013.

[Wildcat Pride]

UNH should win this game. But the OC and DC for UNH are not very good. Don't have alot of confidence in these 2 being able to make any adjustments needed during the game. To be truthful although as a fan I am happy they are in the the playoffs, but they are very lucky to be in the playoffs.

[KPSUL]

Yep indeed it was Newicks on Great Bay (at least I didn't call it a pond!). Loved the 1972 décor as I grew up in the 70s and have an affinity for that time! Red carpet, dark wood and red vinyl seats! If they would only show Rockford Files reruns on the TV there. Is Madbury Commons finished yet? What is going in there? There was a sign announcing it off the Durham rotary when I was there on a cold but sunny day on Nov. 30, 2013.

You've got excellent taste in dining! I believe Madbury Commons is just off-campus student apartments. It's not some swanky resort or hotel.

[KPSUL]

UNH should win this game. But the OC and DC for UNH are not very good. Don't have alot of confidence in these 2 being able to make any adjustments needed during the game. To be truthful although as a fan I am happy they are in the the playoffs, but they are very lucky to be in the playoffs.

Same two guys as last season. I have to respectfully disagree, we've got an excellent coaching staff that has done a very good job of developing a majority of new players this season. I don't know how much Colgate has improved in 9 games, but it is hard to believe it's more than UNH has. Throw in the 10+ points advantage playing at Cowell gives us and it's hard not to be over-confident!

[Pards Rule]

You've got excellent taste in dining! I believe Madbury Commons is just off-campus student apartments. It's not some swanky resort or hotel.

It has a retail component on the ground floor. I was curious about that.

[Gordon Shumway]

UNH should win this game. But the OC and DC for UNH are not very good. Don't have alot of confidence in these 2 being able to make any adjustments needed during the game. To be truthful although as a fan I am happy they are in the the playoffs, but they are very lucky to be in the playoffs.

Not to be too picky, but Ryan Carty (OC) is 37-15 since taking over without ever having a difference maker at QB. The DC John Lyons is the 2nd winningest HC in Dartmouth football history. I think your lack of confidence may be misdirected a tad. This team is as vulnerable as it has been in the 12 year playoff run, but blaming the OC & DC is way off the mark.

[RichH2]

I really hope not... Simply because the Lehigh and Lafayette posters will slowly turn the game thread into a thread about the times they enjoyed moving their kids into campus during the 1950s and how the football teams were good back then. UNH is better on both sides of the ball UNH wins 34-21
I sense that you are daring us to do so :):)

[Terry2889]

Not to be too picky, but Ryan Carty (OC) is 37-15 since taking over without ever having a difference maker at QB. The DC John Lyons is the 2nd winningest HC in Dartmouth football history. I think your lack of confidence may be misdirected a tad. This team is as vulnerable as it has been in the 12 year playoff run, but blaming the OC & DC is way off the mark.

Carty can be very innovative at times. However, I HATE the 4-2-5 that Lyons has carried over from the last DC. We are consistently outflanked against Double tight personnel and he never makes any adjustments. His answer to getting crushed in the run game is to bring blitzes, which is a terrible strategy. I did however see them line up in a traditional 4-3 against double tight against Maine. Don't know if its a permanent adjustment or just a passing fancy but we'll see. I think we see a breakout game for the UNH offense. UNH 43 (Some missed extra points) 'Gate 21

[ngineer]

Going with Wildcats. 'gate defense can be had. UNH 30-17.

[UIWWildthing]

Hopefully Colgate wins by 30. Still bitter about that snub.

[Pards Rule]

Carty can be very innovative at times. However, I HATE the 4-2-5 that Lyons has carried over from the last DC. We are consistently outflanked against Double tight personnel and he never makes any adjustments. His answer to getting crushed in the run game is to bring blitzes, which is a terrible strategy. I did however see them line up in a traditional 4-3 against double tight against Maine. Don't know if its a permanent adjustment or just a passing fancy but we'll see. I think we see a breakout game for the UNH offense. UNH 43 (Some missed extra points) 'Gate 21

Art Link, your former LB coach, is employing it as the DC at Lafayette the last two seasons.

[NHwildEcat]

Hard to see UNH lose at home, they've come a long way in the past 5 weeks...Goldrich is seemingly healthy which has been the consistent approach they need on offense. The coaching isn't the issue with the program, it is the lack of progress from the underclassmen to fill the roles vacated by graduating seniors. Maybe they missed the mark a bit on recruiting or maybe they just got a few guys wrong or possibly these younger kids just are a bit slower than previous classes.

I still think our best QB is on the bench...but that won't be the case next year.

Any who...UNH wins 34-17

[Catsfan90]

Hopefully Colgate wins by 30. Still bitter about that snub.
That was 3 years ago dude.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

KPSUL is that the place overlooking the lake? Im nearly 1000% certain that was the place I ate at following the 2013 playoff game..HUGHGGGEE (as the Donald would say) dining room! Great food and reasonable prices. Highly recommend. Unfortunately I got there after sunset :(

Lake???? As the other Wildcat poster mentioned, that body of water was a bay, actually part of an inland estuary. In the picture in the first link, the bridge is US 4 with Durham on the right and Dover Point on the left. Newick's would be to the left on the north bank of Little Bay.

http://greatbay.org/about/index.htm

(http://greatbay.org/about/index.htm)http://clf.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Great-Bay-Estuary-Map1.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Bay_%28New_Hampshire%29

http://www.newicks.com/contact.html

When I walked through Madbury Commons on Homecoming Weekend, the only commercial space being set up was for a branch of TD North Bank IIRC.

[CFBfan]

looks like rain in Durham on Saturday, who will that favor?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Not according to the Weather Channel.

http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/l/03824:4:US

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

As the week has gone on the weather outlook keeps getting better and better
I can't wait

[CFBfan]

As the week has gone on the weather outlook keeps getting better and better
I can't wait

terrific!!
so, the weather looks good for Saturday in Durham, who does that favor?!

[Terry2889]

Hopefully Colgate wins by 30. Still bitter about that snub.

2012? Understood...

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

terrific!!
so, the weather looks good for Saturday in Durham, who does that favor?!

Me, every year I get older it's more and more difficult to stand in the cold and rain.xdrunkyx

IMHO a faster track favors UNH but we'll see

[CFBfan]

Me, every year I get older it's more and more difficult to stand in the cold and rain.xdrunkyx

IMHO a faster track favors UNH but we'll see

good answer York!

[KPSUL]

I've stopped worrying about how weather might effect the outcome of a game. You just never know until they play the game.

[Pards Rule]

Lake???? As the other Wildcat poster mentioned, that body of water was a bay, actually part of an inland estuary. In the picture in the first link, the bridge is US 4 with Durham on the right and Dover Point on the left. Newick's would be to the left on the north bank of Little Bay.

http://greatbay.org/about/index.htm

(http://greatbay.org/about/index.htm)http://clf.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Great-Bay-Estuary-Map1.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Bay_%28New_Hampshire%29

http://www.newicks.com/contact.html

When I walked through Madbury Commons on Homecoming Weekend, the only commercial space being set up was for a branch of TD North Bank IIRC.

Thanks my friend! I think you recommended Newicks to me for the following night when we had dinner in downtown Portsmouth (what was that place?) on Friday evening. Saxbys Coffee is supposed to open in Madbury Commons. I assume now in 2016.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Thanks my friend! I think you recommended Newicks to me for the following night when we had dinner in downtown Portsmouth (what was that place?) on Friday evening. Saxbys Coffee is supposed to open in Madbury Commons. I assume now in 2016.

I probably did recommend Newicks, I always do!! :D The place in Portsmouth was the Irish Pub in the old bank building.

http://www.rira.com/portsmouth/about-ri-ra/

[Pards Rule]

I probably did recommend Newicks, I always do!! :D The place in Portsmouth was the Irish Pub in the old bank building.

http://www.rira.com/portsmouth/about-ri-ra/




Yes! That was good too! Hopefully the Pards have a good rebuilding and we can meet again up there!

[UNH72Plus]

I probably did recommend Newicks, I always do!! :D The place in Portsmouth was the Irish Pub in the old bank building.

http://www.rira.com/portsmouth/about-ri-ra/



For those of you Colgate fans who are making the trek to Durham, enjoy the area if you have the time. Portsmouth has some great restaurants, as does Kittery, Maine (just across the bridge). Young's restaurant in Durham still makes a good breakfast. Other good breakfast spots are the wooden Ladle in Dover, and a restaurant whose name escapes me that located right off the Route 1 traffic circle in Portsmouth.

Having grown up in Portsmouth, I've been going to Newicks for decades, and it's still great. I watched the UNH homecoming game four years ago in the Irish pub, because my daughter was getting married that afternoon. Good beer and decent food. It was Halloween Eve and that night it started to snow and we woke up to 20 inches of fresh white stuff. At least nobody will have to deal with that tomorrow.

No disrespect because I think Colgate has done what they had to do to get into the playoffs, but I don't see that they have improved that much, at least offensively. In the last six games they do have their signature win, a two point victory over Fordham, but they also lost by 24 points to Penn, and their other wins were a four point win over 4-7 Georgetown, a nine point win over 1-10 Lafayette, a seven point win over 6-5 Lehigh, and a four point win over 4-7 Bucknell.

We'll see.

[Catsfan90]

For those of you Colgate fans who are making the trek to Durham, enjoy the area if you have the time. Portsmouth has some great restaurants, as does Kittery, Maine (just across the bridge). Young's restaurant in Durham still makes a good breakfast. Other good breakfast spots are the wooden Ladle in Dover, and a restaurant whose name escapes me that located right off the Route 1 traffic circle in Portsmouth.

Having grown up in Portsmouth, I've been going to Newicks for decades, and it's still great. I watched the UNH homecoming game four years ago in the Irish pub, because my daughter was getting married that afternoon. Good beer and decent food. It was Halloween Eve and that night it started to snow and we woke up to 20 inches of fresh white stuff. At least nobody will have to deal with that tomorrow.

No disrespect because I think Colgate has done what they had to do to get into the playoffs, but I don't see that they have improved that much, at least offensively. In the last six games they do have their signature win, a two point victory over Fordham, but they also lost by 24 points to Penn, and their other wins were a four point win over 4-7 Georgetown, a nine point win over 1-10 Lafayette, a seven point win over 6-5 Lehigh, and a four point win over 4-7 Bucknell.

We'll see.
The roundabout diner, great place! Full bar at breakfast.

[CFBfan]

For those of you Colgate fans who are making the trek to Durham, enjoy the area if you have the time. Portsmouth has some great restaurants, as does Kittery, Maine (just across the bridge). Young's restaurant in Durham still makes a good breakfast. Other good breakfast spots are the wooden Ladle in Dover, and a restaurant whose name escapes me that located right off the Route 1 traffic circle in Portsmouth.

Having grown up in Portsmouth, I've been going to Newicks for decades, and it's still great. I watched the UNH homecoming game four years ago in the Irish pub, because my daughter was getting married that afternoon. Good beer and decent food. It was Halloween Eve and that night it started to snow and we woke up to 20 inches of fresh white stuff. At least nobody will have to deal with that tomorrow.

No disrespect because I think Colgate has done what they had to do to get into the playoffs, but I don't see that they have improved that much, at least offensively. In the last six games they do have their signature win, a two point victory over Fordham, but they also lost by 24 points to Penn, and their other wins were a four point win over 4-7 Georgetown, a nine point win over 1-10 Lafayette, a seven point win over 6-5 Lehigh, and a four point win over 4-7 Bucknell.

We'll see.

Gate did not play U Penn

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

IIRC, Pards Rule hit the Wooden Ladle and Roundabout Diner during his stay in the Seacoast!!

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Yes! That was good too! Hopefully the Pards have a good rebuilding and we can meet again up there!

I thought you would have talked your AD into scheduling a home and home by now! xbowx :D

[Pards Rule]

IIRC, Pards Rule hit the Wooden Ladle and Roundabout Diner during his stay in the Seacoast!!

Yes I did!! Both excellent! The Wooden Ladle was the breakfast place around the corner from the Microtel Inn where I stayed in Rochester NH as you did as I recollect? Sadly, I'm just remembering I ate at Wooden Ladle the morning of the game (Roundabout the Sunday morning after the game before touring via car delightful downtown Portsmouth where I stayed the Saturday night at America's Best Inn at that roundabout) and stopped by the Keller's table at the Ladle as they were having breakfast too. Their son, Brian, who became a starting TE at LC, died this past June in a tragic car accident on I-295 in Columbus, NJ.

[Gater]

For those of you Colgate fans who are making the trek to Durham, enjoy the area if you have the time. Portsmouth has some great restaurants, as does Kittery, Maine (just across the bridge). Young's restaurant in Durham still makes a good breakfast. Other good breakfast spots are the wooden Ladle in Dover, and a restaurant whose name escapes me that located right off the Route 1 traffic circle in Portsmouth.

Having grown up in Portsmouth, I've been going to Newicks for decades, and it's still great. I watched the UNH homecoming game four years ago in the Irish pub, because my daughter was getting married that afternoon. Good beer and decent food. It was Halloween Eve and that night it started to snow and we woke up to 20 inches of fresh white stuff. At least nobody will have to deal with that tomorrow.

No disrespect because I think Colgate has done what they had to do to get into the playoffs, but I don't see that they have improved that much, at least offensively. In the last six games they do have their signature win, a two point victory over Fordham, but they also lost by 24 points to Penn, and their other wins were a four point win over 4-7 Georgetown, a nine point win over 1-10 Lafayette, a seven point win over 6-5 Lehigh, and a four point win over 4-7 Bucknell.

We'll see.

It's an interesting match-up in that both teams ended with some pretty weak competition--while getting one win against a good team. Certainly, neither team was blowing out other teams. Seems strange that UNH would be coming out of the CAA with an at-large and have 7-4 Colgate as its second-to-best win. (Colgate and Richmond are UNH's only wins against teams that won more than 4 games this year.)

After losing to 5-6 San Jose State and beating 7-4 Colgate
UNH played:
Stony Brook-- 5-5 (L)
Central Connecticut 4-7 (W)
Elon 4-7 (W)
W&M 8-3 (L)
Del 4-7 (L)
URI 1-10 (W)
Rich 8-3 (W)
Albany 3-8 (W)
Maine 3-8 (W)

Including Colgate, UNH played three teams with winning records this year (going 2-1).
Colgate played six teams with winning records and went 3-3.
Both teams lost to 5-5 teams (Colgate's was Princeton).

UNH beat Colgate in Hamilton. UNH is playing this game at home and is rightfully favored.

Colgate is a young team (2.5 seniors starting on O and 2 on D). It will be interesting to see how much they have grown up as the year has progressed relative to UNH and how much better UNH is with their starting QB playing for the entire game (they got out to a big lead against Colgate).

[KPSUL]

It's an interesting match-up in that both teams ended with some pretty weak competition--while getting one win against a good team. Certainly, neither team was blowing out other teams. Seems strange that UNH would be coming out of the CAA with an at-large and have 7-4 Colgate as its second-to-best win. (Colgate and Richmond are UNH's only wins against teams that won more than 4 games this year.)

After losing to 5-6 San Jose State and beating 7-4 Colgate
UNH played:
Stony Brook-- 5-5 (L)
Central Connecticut 4-7 (W)
Elon 4-7 (W)
W&M 8-3 (L)
Del 4-7 (L)
URI 1-10 (W)
Rich 8-3 (W)
Albany 3-8 (W)
Maine 3-8 (W)

Including Colgate, UNH played three teams with winning records this year (going 2-1).
Colgate played six teams with winning records and went 3-3.
Both teams lost to 5-5 teams (Colgate's was Princeton).

UNH beat Colgate in Hamilton. UNH is playing this game at home and is rightfully favored.

Colgate is a young team (2.5 seniors starting on O and 2 on D). It will be interesting to see how much they have grown up as the year has progressed relative to UNH and how much better UNH is with their starting QB playing for the entire game (they got out to a big lead against Colgate).

Shssshh! Keep a lid on all this. We're catching enough grief on making the playoffs from Towson, Tribe and MVFC AGS fans. That's why were making two or three restaurant recommendations for every one prediction of impending doom for the Red Raiders. By the way, what's a Red Raider"? Sound kind-a-like Chief Whack-a-homa. How do you guys get away with keeping the derogatory native american nick-name while William & Mary, Dartmouth and North Dakota had to dump theirs?

[RootinFerDukes]

All of these restaurant recommendations sound good. One of these years I'll make a trip up to the various New England schools. Not next year though.
This is of course assuming our president doesn't suddenly get it together and move us to the greener pastures of the beef o Brady's bowl or whatever the hell it's called now.

[Terry2889]

All of these restaurant recommendations sound good. One of these years I'll make a trip up to the various New England schools. Not next year though.
This is of course assuming our president doesn't suddenly get it together and move us to the greener pastures of the beef o Brady's bowl or whatever the hell it's called now.

I think You guys are at UNH next year right? Sounds crazy but I always advise people to drive up. That way you can hit Boston too, its only an hour away. If we do in fact advance, what recommendation can you make for next week? I'll be heading down from Jersey next Friday if we can beat the 'Gate. I've only been to Harrisonburg as a player.

[Pards Rule]

All of these restaurant recommendations sound good. One of these years I'll make a trip up to the various New England schools. Not next year though.
This is of course assuming our president doesn't suddenly get it together and move us to the greener pastures of the beef o Brady's bowl or whatever the hell it's called now.

Isnt it a fricking disgrace! Corporate sponsorship has eclipsed the traditional bowl names and were are left with garbage like the Maaco Bowl (now defunct after the franchisees objected to Maaco execs like Dave Lapps using their money for a free vaca out to Vegas) and Beef O Brady and Chick-fil-A. I read in the Times over the last two days that there are a record 41 bowl games necessitating 82 of the 120 FBS teams to go to one. Now they may have to waive the 6 win bowl eligibility requirement to get 5-7 or 5-6 teams to fill the bowls!!

[Gordon Shumway]

Gate did not play U Penn

You'll have to excuse him for mixing up Penn & Princeton. The Ivies all look the same to the unwashed.

[Gordon Shumway]

Isnt it a fricking disgrace! Corporate sponsorship has eclipsed the traditional bowl names and were are left with garbage like the Maaco Bowl (now defunct after the franchisees objected to Maaco execs like Dave Lapps using their money for a free vaca out to Vegas) and Beef O Brady and Chick-fil-A. I read in the Times over the last two days that there are a record 41 bowl games necessitating 82 of the 120 FBS teams to go to one. Now they may have to waive the 6 win bowl eligibility requirement to get 5-7 or 5-6 teams to fill the bowls!!

That is all true, but you have to admit there was something endearing about the The Poulan Weedeater Bowl.

[ElCid]

Isnt it a fricking disgrace! Corporate sponsorship has eclipsed the traditional bowl names and were are left with garbage like the Maaco Bowl (now defunct after the franchisees objected to Maaco execs like Dave Lapps using their money for a free vaca out to Vegas) and Beef O Brady and Chick-fil-A. I read in the Times over the last two days that there are a record 41 bowl games necessitating 82 of the 120 FBS teams to go to one. Now they may have to waive the 6 win bowl eligibility requirement to get 5-7 or 5-6 teams to fill the bowls!!

This is the biggest joke of all. And they actually think this does not have an impact on fans. When I talk to people and family, who "were" all big time college football fans, they have no interest in any of the average Toilet Bowl games. "They" whoever they are, are destroying the brand slowly but surely. Now they are putting in 5-6 teams. Wow, they are stupid.

[RootinFerDukes]

I think You guys are at UNH next year right? Sounds crazy but I always advise people to drive up. That way you can hit Boston too, its only an hour away. If we do in fact advance, what recommendation can you make for next week? I'll be heading down from Jersey next Friday if we can beat the 'Gate. I've only been to Harrisonburg as a player.

Do you have a particular type of food you like? I don't know if I'm the best expert of local places but I can try my best. Fans on our csnbbs board would collectively give good recommendations.

[Go...gate]

Isnt it a fricking disgrace! Corporate sponsorship has eclipsed the traditional bowl names and were are left with garbage like the Maaco Bowl (now defunct after the franchisees objected to Maaco execs like Dave Lapps using their money for a free vaca out to Vegas) and Beef O Brady and Chick-fil-A. I read in the Times over the last two days that there are a record 41 bowl games necessitating 82 of the 120 FBS teams to go to one. Now they may have to waive the 6 win bowl eligibility requirement to get 5-7 or 5-6 teams to fill the bowls!!

Word down here in Central NJ is that Rutgers may go to a bowl with a losing record.

[Pards Rule]

Word down here in Central NJ is that Rutgers may go to a bowl with a losing record.

Probably the Pinstripe Bowl as it is the closest. That's the other thing its amusing how they invite the obvious draws. Simply about pulling fans who are excited that their team is in a third tier bowl. Whoopee!

[Go...gate]

This is going to be a tough rematch for both clubs, but I think UNH is still a bit better. New Hampshire 30, Colgate 21.

[Kramden]

Shssshh! Keep a lid on all this. We're catching enough grief on making the playoffs from Towson, Tribe and MVFC AGS fans. That's why were making two or three restaurant recommendations for every one prediction of impending doom for the Red Raiders. By the way, what's a Red Raider"? Sound kind-a-like Chief Whack-a-homa. How do you guys get away with keeping the derogatory native american nick-name while William & Mary, Dartmouth and North Dakota had to dump theirs?


Colgate changed its mascot to a Raider a number of years back so now it insults Pirates.

[Fordham]

Let's go Gate!!!!

[CFBfan]

Not according to the Weather Channel.

http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/l/03824:4:US



well, the weather channel was wrong...again. it is raining in Portsmouth
don't you wish you could be wrong as often as weather people and still keep your job

[Terry2889]

Do you have a particular type of food you like? I don't know if I'm the best expert of local places but I can try my best. Fans on our csnbbs board would collectively give good recommendations.

Just got some good recommendations. Thanks though. Of course none of this will matter if UNH poops the bed today : )

[Pards Rule]

well, the weather channel was wrong...again. it is raining in Portsmouth
don't you wish you could be wrong as often as weather people and still keep your job

They should be fricking fired!!

[UNH72Plus]

You'll have to excuse him for mixing up Penn & Princeton. The Ivies all look the same to the unwashed.

Excuse me, I took a shower this week!!

Of course a loss to a 5-5 Princeton is more telling than a loss to a 7-3 Penn.

[Pards Rule]

I really liked the cozy grass parking/tailgate area with the scattered rock outcroppings. And the most bizarre of all - a very small graveyard in that area.

[Pards Rule]

Am talking right now to a good friend driving back from Kennebunk Maine and she is southbound and down on I-95 back to Pennsylvania and reports as she just passed the Mass/NH border and it is pouring!

[KPSUL]

I really liked the cozy grass parking/tailgate area with the scattered rock outcroppings. And the most bizarre of all - a very small graveyard in that area.

That's where we bury the hopes of our Patriot League playoff opponents.

[Pards Rule]

That's where we bury the hopes of our Patriot League playoff opponents.

But there's no place to expand??

[clenz]

Random question

Does UNH actually use this logo?

http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/33/768/full/q3m2qw8vwthtcq6r0o70hgfjo.gif

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate looks good so far. They're surviving in the trenches which is key....

[Pards Rule]

Colgate looks good so far. They're surviving in the trenches which is key....

Owl, help keep me informed as Im not in viewing capacity - thanks!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

TD Raiders! Great drive! XP is blocked!

12-3 Colgate 9:29 2Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

UNH gets inside the 'Gate 10 again but is forced to settle for a FG. Those two missed XP's by Colgate could be huge. Raiders won the league because they can play defense while Fordham and Lehigh couldn't....

12-6 Colgate 1:10 2Q

[ColgateTD]

UNH gets inside the 'Gate 10 again but is forced to settle for a FG. Those two missed XP's by Colgate could be huge. Raiders won the league because they can play defense while Fordham and Lehigh couldn't....

12-6 Colgate 1:10 2Q

I don't know whar\ts wrong with our FG unit. It has been the strongest part of our game last year.

Owl keep posting, have no video or audio.

[PantherRob82]

Shocked, but not really. Obviously there was some debate about UNH getting in. Ugly game so far.

[Pards Rule]

I don't know whar\ts wrong with our FG unit. It has been the strongest part of our game last year.

Owl keep posting, have no video or audio.


Ditto Owl...thanks sir..wow go Gate!

[WrenFGun]

Colgate was better in half one and the score shows it. Much more fundamentally sound than UNH which is no surprise.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

TD Colgate! 2 pt conversion good!

20-6 Raiders!

[Pards Rule]

Wow! Unless UNH gets it going NOW this will be another Chip Kelly-like blowout!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

UNH is really struggling trying to stop the Colgate zone-read.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate driving again. Melville is killing UNH with his legs...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate 20 UNH 6 End 3Q

Colgate has the ball 1st 10 at UNH 13 when the 4th quarter starts....

[Bogus Megapardus]

'Gate is beyond impressive.

[UNHWildcat18]

UNH is playing awful. I give Colgate credit but this isn't the team who won their last four games and beat Richmond. He'll isn't the team who beat Colgate earlier in the season..

[Bogus Megapardus]

Colgate driving again. Melville is killing UNH with his legs...

And UNH just doesn't seem to be ready for it.

[Pards Rule]

'Gate is beyond impressive.


Yeah good job Gate. No need to expand that cemetery for another Patriot League corpse!!

[Bogus Megapardus]

UNH is playing awful. I give Colgate credit but this isn't the team who won their last four games and beat Richmond. He'll isn't the team who beat Colgate earlier in the season..

Also 'Gate isn't the same team that lost to UNH earlier in the season.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Gutsy call by 'Gate to forgo the points and go for it! They got the first down!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Jeez, Jake Mellvlle can do no wrong. He's making all the right reads.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

TD Colgate! What a performance for the Raiders! I picked them today in the bracket challenge!

[Lehigh'98]

UNH is playing awful. I give Colgate credit but this isn't the team who won their last four games and beat Richmond. He'll isn't the team who beat Colgate earlier in the season..

Sometimes you just have to chalk it up to the better team winning

[Old Cat Fan]

Well this was quick and painless Thank you Colgate xthumbsupx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

TD UNH! Still a decent amount of time left...

27-13 9:39 4Q

[Bogus Megapardus]

Holding UNH to that field goal was key for 'Gate.

Sorry, UNH - I gotta go with the PL team here.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

onside kick already? interesting

[centennial]

Cannot believe that UNH is losing..

[Bogus Megapardus]

Cannot believe that UNH is losing..

. . . to a PL team? xrolleyesx

[Go...gate]

Nice to see you, Bogus Megapardus. Hope you and your family had a fine Thanksgiving.

- - - Updated - - -

New Hampshire scores, now 27-20 Colgate. This is not over yet, folks.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

TD UNH! Colgate is in a bit of trouble imo....

#2 for Colgate had the UNH QB stopped if he took a better angle....

[UNHWildcat18]

Wow 27-20 with 530 left. If UNH can get one stop we have a chance

[Bogus Megapardus]

Nice to see you, Bogus Megapardus. Hope you and your family had a fine Thanksgiving.


Thanks, 'gate. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours as well. Road trip for me, and a chance to play traditional thanksgiving lacrosse with all the family! And as always, the dog ate the ball.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate fumble! UNH recovers in Raider territory....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Gate gets a huge interception!

[grizband]

UNH throws and interception, game might be over.

Colgate has the ball, up 27-20, with 3:33 left in the game.

[Go...gate]

BIG interception by Colgate.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Awesome!!!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

First down Colgate! UNH is out of timeouts!

[grizband]

Colgate with a first down, clock continues to run at 3:00

[kdinva]

UNH ball on its own 17, under 40 seconds....

[Bogus Megapardus]

36 ticks and no times out.

[Go...gate]

GO RED RAIDERS!!!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

unh ball on their 15 with 29 second left....

[centennial]

36 ticks and no times out.
#isover?

[Go...gate]

GO PATRIOT LEAGUE!!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Fat Lady is tuning her pipes . . .

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

one play left and UNH out of hail mary range....

[kdinva]

'Gate wins 27-20.........excellent win for the Patriot, even if it's over the CAA #4 team. Richmond scratching their heads, I bet.......

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate wins! Very good win for the Raiders and the PL. This was a UNH team that could be had and Colgate got the job done!

I really thought the Raiders had a great shot in this game despite their recent playoff performances...

[dwtime]

Congrats Colgate, you were the better team today.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Unbelievable win. Congrats to the Red Raiders!

[UNHWildcat18]

Good job Colgate. Regardless of how the teams played, you won, and you deserve to celebrate. With that I hope you get spanked next week at JMU.

[WrenFGun]

Congrats to Colgate. The statement is simple, doesn't need anything more than this: Colgate was the better team. They had better talent, they had better execution, they had a better gameplan.

UNH will never win a championship with a coach who cannot gameplan for big games.

[Bill]

Congrats red raiders !

[Bogus Megapardus]

http://www.english-test.net/forum/user_images/13052012085339.jpg

[Go...gate]

The Patriot League gets a fine victory over a good team.

[DaBizon]

UNH......you friggin lost to the PL ?

[dwtime]

UNH......you friggin lost to the PL ?

Bad gameplan, bad breaks and not enough talent. Was hoping a decent UNH team was going to show up today but it didn't. We weren't going to beat JMU anyways and hate to say it but I have a feeling Colgate won't either. We shall see.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I hate to look ahead already but I think JMU is another reasonable match-up for Colgate. I think the Raiders will be able to put enough points to give themselves a chance to win. However, stopping the Dukes will be far tougher than stopping UNH...

This really shouldn't be much of a shock imo. Colgate was legitimately playing good ball the final month of the year. This was a UNH team that was ripe for the picking. Very similar to Lehigh-UNI in 2010 imo...

[WrenFGun]

This was a mediocre UNH team that played pretty darn poorly in a number of games, but this is still a nice win for Colgate.

Ultimately, from a playoff perspective, UNH's resume put them in over a few teams because of that win over Richmond, but good lord, take that win a way and this was a thoroughly unimpressive team that beat URI by 3 and struggled at times with teams like Elon, Albany and Maine.

Like always, nothing will change with UNH. We'll continue to go 7-4 and 8-3 and we'll be outcoached and outexecuted in the playoffs, year in, year out. We'll beat a team when our offense looks like 2005 UNH and that will get us in the playoffs, and when things tighten up it will be the same as always.

[UNHWildcat18]

This was a mediocre UNH team that played pretty darn poorly in a number of games, but this is still a nice win for Colgate.

Ultimately, from a playoff perspective, UNH's resume put them in over a few teams because of that win over Richmond, but good lord, take that win a way and this was a thoroughly unimpressive team that beat URI by 3 and struggled at times with teams like Elon, Albany and Maine.

Like always, nothing will change with UNH. We'll continue to go 7-4 and 8-3 and we'll be outcoached and outexecuted in the playoffs, year in, year out. We'll beat a team when our offense looks like 2005 UNH and that will get us in the playoffs, and when things tighten up it will be the same as always.

Really though we need a new defensive scheme a new OC and to recruit better. Also if 1! Stud wants to transfer from FBS to us maybe we actually let him. I'm not saying we turn into friggen SHSU but still.

[Lehigh'98]

Nice win Colgate!! Much needed playoff win for the PL. Now go give JMU a suprise.

[the last indian]

Nice win Colgate!! Much needed playoff win for the PL. Now go give JMU a suprise.
Congratulations to the Red Raiders (for the earlier poster the name came from a NY sports writer commenting on their victory at Yankee Stadium).
I appreciate the support on this board of other PL posters. This is what the PL needs to do consistently vs the Colonial league.
I think the league is inching forward.
We can beat JMU, but it is certainly not a given. But nice to get to that level.

[RootinFerDukes]

Colgate could run the ball and milk the clock. That is the key to beating JMU. Blitz on almost every play and make our inexperienced back-up QB beat you with the pass. I wouldn't be surprised to see Colgate win.
I'll be more surprised if we actually beat Colgate next week. Our defense is terrible and you will score on almost every drive. The key is stopping us on 2, 3 or 4 drives throughout the game and keep scoring. You'll score 28-35 at minimum I would guess.

[caribbeanhen]

this is Colgate's chance to start another shocking run to the finals haha

But I wouldn't be shocked if they beat UNH, if Delaware can do it no reason Coal got tea cant do it either

who does Colgate beat up in the next round?

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Congrats to Colgate but this is really disappointing for UNH and the CAA.

[Lehigh'98]

Congrats to Colgate but this is really disappointing for UNH and the CAA.

Was almost an unmitigated disaster, but W&M pulled it out. This game was a suprise to many, but maybe shouldn't have been looking at some of UNHs games this year

[kdinva]

who does Colgate beat up in the next round?

They get the Dukes of J M U..........and I hope the JMU fan base takes Colgate seriously, and at least 23K show up in Harrisonburg....

[etiger]

This goes to show that the only reason UNH got in was because their AD was on the selection committee. They only got in because of back room politics. Serves them right to lose to a Patriot League team!

[UNHWildcat18]

This goes to show that the only reason UNH got in was because their AD was on the selection committee. They only got in because of back room politics. Serves them right to lose to a Patriot League team!

UNH I don't think has ever lost in the first round. Maybe it has to do with being the 4th placed team in the CAA and a semi finalist 2 years in a row and 12 playoff seasons in a row... Go climb in the hole and make post 51 another 2 years from now you old fart

[RootinFerDukes]

They get the Dukes of J M U..........and I hope the JMU fan base takes Colgate seriously, and at least 23K show up in Harrisonburg....
That's not happening. I'll be content with 18-20k showing.

[Kramden]

Colgate could run the ball and milk the clock. That is the key to beating JMU. Blitz on almost every play and make our inexperienced back-up QB beat you with the pass. I wouldn't be surprised to see Colgate win.
I'll be more surprised if we actually beat Colgate next week. Our defense is terrible and you will score on almost every drive. The key is stopping us on 2, 3 or 4 drives throughout the game and keep scoring. You'll score 28-35 at minimum I would guess.

Even after JMU lost their QB, it seemed they put up a lot of points, I'd be surprised if Colgate will keep,them out of the end zone.

[RichH2]

Congrats Gate. Beat JMU .

[BullDog85]

Congrats 'Gate!

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

Well done, Colgate. Keep it going against JMU & beyond.

[KPSUL]

Very well played game Colgate and an excellent game plan. Absolutely exploited UNH's big weakness, the inside run game.

[KPSUL]

UNH......you friggin lost to the PL ?

Oh Shut up, and sit back down at the kid's table. The big people are trying to have an adult conversation here.

[Fordham]

Congrats Gate!!! Awesome win

[ngineer]

Congrats to the Red Raiders! Not surprised at all at the result, though I figured UNH a close favorite on their home field. They can beat JMU, but it will have to be defense by ball control on offense, and 'gate can do that. If they can keep the Dukes in the low 30's, they have a shot. Good luck!!

[2ram]

congrats to colgate! great win.

keep it up!

[Ivytalk]

Congrats to Colgate, and best of luck next week!

[Lehigh'98]

You know, if Colgate can find some way to knock off JMU, there is absolutely no reason they couldn't go deep into the playoffs. The Non MVFC side of the bracket sets up very nicely. oh well, One game at a time here..

[Pards Rule]

UNH......you friggin lost to the PL ?


Indeed they did! Congrats Gate! What was the spread on this game? I believe CU was underdog - I would guess 10 points.

[caribbeanhen]

this is Colgate's chance to start another shocking run to the finals haha

But I wouldn't be shocked if they beat UNH, if Delaware can do it no reason Coal got tea cant do it either

JMU will crumble just like UNH did, CAA is at an all time low

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Congrats to the Red Raiders! Not surprised at all at the result, though I figured UNH a close favorite on their home field. They can beat JMU, but it will have to be defense by ball control on offense, and 'gate can do that. If they can keep the Dukes in the low 30's, they have a shot. Good luck!!

Colgate really improved as the season went on. Their defense was solid for most of the year and the offense has some real playmakers. They'll be a tough out next year and should start the season in the Top 15 imo.

I'll be interested to see how they play against JMU. If they're satisfied in beating/getting revenge against UNH then they'll get run off the field. However, if they put in a week of great work they can absolutely hang with the Dukes. Colgate should be able to put up 30+ so long as they don't have self inflicted wounds. The defense will be the key. JMU's speed on the edge even without Lee is ridiculous...

I have this game JMU 52 Colgate 35 in the bracket challenge.

I have JMU in the finals. That side of the bracket could be had imo. Even with a flawed defense the Dukes are a real threat. Even Colgate is....

[Gate83]

Made the trip up to Cowell yesterday. UNH fans couldn't have been better hosts, friendly and welcoming even as the game wasn't going their way. Symptomatic of the weekend I went with a friend who has a son that's a freshman at UNH, he was not allowed back into his dorm yesterday as they remained closed for Thanksgiving break until today... it's no wonder with decisions like that attendance suffers!

Hoping to get to JMU next weekend, believe we came out of yesterday without any major injuries. Hoping we can make it interesting for another week, it's been some roll since the Fordham game on Halloween!

[Pards Rule]

I thought you would have talked your AD into scheduling a home and home by now! xbowx :D

NOW I think he may be receptive. We have rebuilding to accomplish first.

[Pards Rule]

That is all true, but you have to admit there was something endearing about the The Poulan Weedeater Bowl.

Haha after Penn State got dismantled yesterday by Michigan State 55-16, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer, they, at 7-5, are slated for either the TAXSLAYER (love it!) Gator Bowl on Jan. 2 in Jacksonville or the Foster Farms Bowl on Dec. 26 in Santa Clara Calif. I remember one year that PSU fans were bitching in the press they were sent to Motor City Bowl or was it Pinstripe Bowl (definitely some northern clime) and they were deprived of a warm weather bowl game. Ahhhhh. If it weren't for your pulling capacity with like 10K grads a year across the system, you would be sitting home most of the time with your barely bowl eligible records.

[ColgateTD]

Yay for the Raiders! Great game plan. Holland is quick, has put on lbs since last season and was a bull through the UNH line. If we can keep JMU in the high 20s-low 30s we have a good chance. Gotta manage the clock and no self-inflicted glitches. Go GATE!!

[Pards Rule]

That's where we bury the hopes of our Patriot League playoff opponents.

Thankfully no need for expansion this year!!

- - - Updated - - -


That's where we bury the hopes of our Patriot League playoff opponents.

Thankfully no need for expansion this year!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Congrats to Colgate! Keep representing at JMU!

[jmu007]

That's not happening. I'll be content with 18-20k showing.

You Sir are not rootin. recommend changing your screen name.

Back to business. Congrats Colgate. I'm looking forward to the first ever match up. Expecting a solid crowd of over 20K in the burg.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Forecast for next week looks really nice, low 50's and sunny. That's about as good as it gets for Western VA in early December. I definitely encourage Colgate fans to attend. I loved my visit, minus the outcome, in September for the Lehigh and then again in October for Game Day...

[Mattymc727]

Congrats to Colgate. That was a really weak UNH team on the field yesterday. Colgate wanted it more, and got the W.

UNH had a down year after last years success, but the future looks bright in Durham as the program is continuing to grow. A lot of kids are coming back, hopefully they continue to improve. UNH will be looking for its first starting QB in a while, hopefully the next Santos has been on the bench. Look for Riese, Knight, Niyomugabo, or even a freshman to step up and lead us to the promised land...

[Terry2889]

Great game by Colgate last night. UNH's 4-2-5 defense was once again exposed as a terrible scheme. I can't understand how a division 1 school's d-coordinator can't grasp the concept that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the DE to simultaneously be expected to play the QB pull and Belly cutback at the same time!!! It's been a terrible scheme for five years now and needs to be completely scrapped. Colgate earned a good win and UNH left several opportunities on the field to win the game. In either case UNH had a very good year considering that they are in a major rebuilding period. I would also like to formally apologize to UND for wasting what could have been a great spot in the playoff seeding. We'll be much improved next year and with the new stadium being opened up the future is VERY bright at UNH.

[Pards Rule]

Congrats to Colgate. That was a really weak UNH team on the field yesterday. Colgate wanted it more, and got the W.

UNH had a down year after last years success, but the future looks bright in Durham as the program is continuing to grow. A lot of kids are coming back, hopefully they continue to improve. UNH will be looking for its first starting QB in a while, hopefully the next Santos has been on the bench. Look for Riese, Knight, Niyomugabo, or even a freshman to step up and lead us to the promised land...

I actually have a connection to Riese. Met his mom t the Rochester NH Microtel Friday night before game in 2013. Conversation revealed the connection as she was ex sister in law. Mitch Riese was my construction counterpart when I was an Area Real Estate Mgr for McDonalds Corporation for 10 years. How ironic!

[Nova09]

I actually have a connection to Riese. Met his mom t the Rochester NH Microtel Friday night before game in 2013. Conversation revealed the connection as she was ex sister in law. Mitch Riese was my construction counterpart when I was an Area Real Estate Mgr for McDonalds Corporation for 10 years. How ironic!

Word in the street is UNH intentionally took the L to set up a continuation this weekend with the 47th playing of that epic rivalry started in '13.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I actually have a connection to Riese. Met his mom t the Rochester NH Microtel Friday night before game in 2013. Conversation revealed the connection as she was ex sister in law. Mitch Riese was my construction counterpart when I was an Area Real Estate Mgr for McDonalds Corporation for 10 years. How ironic!

BTW, that Microtel is actually in Dover not Rochester.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

NOW I think he may be receptive. We have rebuilding to accomplish first.

Keep working on it! Fisher would be a new venue for me to watch UNH!! Thought I was going to get to add Bridgeforth and complete my CAA venues, but that didn't work out so well. :(

[Pards Rule]

BTW, that Microtel is actually in Dover not Rochester.

You are correct and it is in Dover NH. Good reasonable accommodation as we both knew!

- - - Updated - - -


Word in the street is UNH intentionally took the L to set up a continuation this weekend with the 47th playing of that epic rivalry started in '13.


Indeed! Today actually is the 2 year anniversary!

[Wildcat Pride]

UNH should win this game. But the OC and DC for UNH are not very good. Don't have alot of confidence in these 2 being able to make any adjustments needed during the game. To be truthful although as a fan I am happy they are in the the playoffs, but they are very lucky to be in the playoffs.


Not to be too picky, but Ryan Carty (OC) is 37-15 since taking over without ever having a difference maker at QB. The DC John Lyons is the 2nd winningest HC in Dartmouth football history. I think your lack of confidence may be misdirected a tad. This team is as vulnerable as it has been in the 12 year playoff run, but blaming the OC & DC is way off the mark.

I call them as I see them, the incompetence of the coaching staff was glaring in this loss. Bad play calling no adjustments. Plain and simple out-coached. You can not tell me that Colgate had better athletes, and if they did shame on this staff for being such poor recruiters. The past few years playoff runs have been successful in spite of the oc/dc. And the fact they did not have a NC in the last 2 years is squarely on their and Macs back.

[Pards Rule]

Keep working on it! Fisher would be a new venue for me to watch UNH!! Thought I was going to get to add Bridgeforth and complete my CAA venues, but that didn't work out so well. :(



Yeah I think its time to host the Cats this time around since we were up there in Durham - but, as you mentioned, in better weather (sunny but cold, high of 30, thankfully no wind!)than they played in Saturday - and Fisher is a really nice facility to enjoy the rematch! And Art Link can visit with his former compadres on the UNH staff too.

[UNH72Plus]

Congratulations Colgate, your guys did what was needed to win. Still, I'm proud of the way the Cats didn't quit and but for the interception on a ball that probably should have been caught, they might have salvaged a win.