Are Carpetbaggers a "Must" to Win in CS?

[carney2]

I love CS football. It's just feels more comfortable to me than those glitzy NFL-lite, made-for-TV BS games played in 100,000 seat stadiums. Like many of you, I was glued to my small screen on Friday and Saturday to watch some of the best college football of the season. Kudos to all of the final four for a job well done.

Beyond the great football however, I was really struck by the number of D-1 transfers playing for each of the final 4 teams. Every other comment from the ESPN talking heads was about where so-and-so played previously and what he did there. I know, for instance, that UMass has 15 D-1 transfers on the roster, but I do not have numbers for the other three teams. I recognize that not every player is a transfer (after some thought and knowing that I will be waving a red flag in front of some of you, I am intentionally calling them carpetbaggers) and that many of the big contributors are recruits of their current school. (For instance, both QBs in this Friday's championship game have spent their entire careers at their respective schools.) Still, I find it troubling - even demeaning to CS football - that, apparently in order to win, you need a bevy of D-1 malcontents and rejects to make noise in the playoffs. I took a quick look at the final 4s back to 2000 and the only team that I can say with certainty played with few, if any, carpetbaggers was Colgate back in 2003.

This is not smack. It is a legitimate concern. The questions are pretty straight forward:

1. Is this a trend or has it been going on for a long time?

2. Will the new (2006) NCAA rule that prohibits a BS to CS transfer from playing at his new school if he has less than 2 years of eligibility remaining change things?

3. Does anyone else feel as I do that this situation is both demeaning and harmful to CS football?

[appheel]

As far as I know, App only has one transfer and he's our 3rd string QB.

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, Richardson, our star RB, was originally a walk-on who was only getting recruited by DII schools.

So, NO you don't need transfers to win.

[Black and Gold Express]

As far as I know, App only has one transfer and he's our 3rd string QB.

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, Richardson, our star RB, was originally a walk-on who was only getting recruited by DII schools.

So, NO you don't need transfers to win.

No we have a couple more. Orlebar transferred two years ago from Wake. Also Rauch transferred from ECU, but he never kicked there I don't think.

Regardless, I think of the final 4 teams we had the least number of transfers total, and none are at high impact positions (like QB, RB, WR, etc). The best team in I-AA (IMO) is almost entirely home-grown.

[appfan2008]

It is true we only have three and none of them are that crucial and we are defending champs... I dont think it is a problem at all

[Black and Gold Express]

It is true we only have three and none of them are that crucial and we are defending champs... I dont think it is a problem at all

I would not call the kicking game "not crucial"... Rauch has been a stable force all year long. His kickoffs rarely get returned anymore and he's been doing double duty for much of the year.

But I think it's a difference between that and a QB/RB/WR position.

[walliver]

1. Is this a trend or has it been going on for a long time?

2. Will the new (2006) NCAA rule that prohibits a BS to CS transfer from playing at his new school if he has less than 2 years of eligibility remaining change things?

3. Does anyone else feel as I do that this situation is both demeaning and harmful to CS football?

1) Yes, it has been going on a long time. Some teams bring in relatively large numbers of I-A transfers while other teams bring in few if any. In some cases these transfers make a big difference. In many cases, these players transfered because they weren't good enough to play I-A football (in which case they usually aren't good enough to play FCS football either). Chattanooga usually leads the SoCon in I-A transfers, and it hasn't done them a lot of good.:twocents:

2) The new rule probably won't make a big difference, as most players transfer after one or two years. There is also the graduate student rule that will allow some athletes to transfer for their last year if they are in graduate school.

3) I feel like I-A/FBS transfers harm the reputation of FCS, but there are a lot of AGS'ers that strongly feel otherwise

[*****]

... I was really struck by the number of D-1 transfers playing for each of the final 4 teams. Every other comment from the ESPN talking heads was about where so-and-so played previously and what he did there... apparently in order to win, you need a bevy of D-1 malcontents and rejects to make noise in the playoffs...That's what ESPN's crew on Friday wants you to believe.

First, FCS and FBS are both D-I.

Fact is kids get over-recruited for FBS and find they have no place to play/don't like the situation when they get there. Many were also recruited by FCS too so when they decide to bolt FBS they find a place at FCS. Plain and simple, there are too many good players for FBS to have them all. By no means are all the stars in FCS, FBS transfers.

[GannonFan]

3) I feel like I-A/FBS transfers harm the reputation of FCS, but there are a lot of AGS'ers that strongly feel otherwise

What reputation are we trying to protect here? FCS, even with the new name, is not a huge topic on most people's minds so why bother protecting a rep most people aren't even aware of. I've been consistent in my thinking and that's whatever is good for the student athlete should be the overriding factor. If it's better for the kid to transfer to an FCS school and play and get an education so be it. I even feel the same way with a graduate student coming in to play. These kids shouldn't be pigeon-holed to a choice of schools and the option to play sports just because we, as hyper-interested alumni and fans, want to focus entirely on the football side of the issue. When we start talking about the national reputation of the football aspect of the FCS and questioning whether these guys should be allowed to transfer I think we are guilty of overvaluing college sports. Hey, maybe we do have something in common with our BCS brothers? :nod:

[UMass922]

There is also the graduate student rule that will allow some athletes to transfer for their last year if they are in graduate school.

UMass backup tailback Tim Washington fits this bill. He's a grad student who came to UMass after graduating from Syracuse with one year of eligibility remaining.

[ncguitarplyr]

its a good option for those players that wanna transfer without missing a year...usually its because of playing time but sometimes its because of academics/their major or they're following their g/f or something like that

but yeah all the top teams besides app pretty much have a bs transfer qb

[henfan]

...whatever is good for the student athlete should be the overriding factor. If it's better for the kid to transfer to an FCS school and play and get an education so be it. I even feel the same way with a graduate student coming in to play. These kids shouldn't be pigeon-holed to a choice of schools and the option to play sports...

:thumbsup:

IMO, the notion that kids who were signed out of high school by School X are somehow more pure than those who transfer in from another university is only slightly more ridiculous than the "Last of the Ameteurs" myth.

[Reed Rothchild]

No they are not. App St proved it last year and again this year as their best players are local products. They can help get you to the playoffs but its the core of players that have been with the program who take you to the promised land.

[*****]

Mountain out of a mole hill IMO, there's no real proof that schools are not just signing the best players available each year. If a high schooler is better then they get signed over somebody wanting to transfer to their school.

[blukeys]

Every other comment from the ESPN talking heads was about where so-and-so played previously and what he did there. I took a quick look at the final 4s back to 2000 and the only team that I can say with certainty played with few, if any, carpetbaggers was Colgate back in 2003.



You bought the media spin Hook, Line, And sinker. I'm actually a little disappointed in you. You have spent enough time on this board to realize that ESPN "reporters" are dumber than the stuff that comes out of your dog's rear end. :nod: :nod: In their mind a player is better because he went to a BS school, end of report. Since this is so they constantly harangue you with how good the transfer is despite the painfully obvious reality they have staring them in the face. Case in point, while extolling the virtues of transfer Swogger and how good he must be due to his BS pedigree, the homegrown Steve Blaylark is dominating the semifinal game.

Another reason you hear so much about transfers (Other than UMASS and Georgia Southern this year I have not heard about massive numbers of transfers.) is that skill players especially quarterbacks are the most likely to transfer. Highly, recruited QB's often fall out of favor when a new coach comes in with his own priorities and his own favorite recruits. A player that had a reasonable expectation of some playing time can find himself as the odd man out with little hope of seeing the field when a new coach comes in. Linemen do not find this problem as often. Most BS schools use a 6 to 8 player rotation for a 4 man front. Naturally, QB's get the most attention. A linebacker gets his name called maybe 5 to 10 times a game. A QB gets called every offensive play.

In 2003 Colgate had 3 or 4 transfers on their roster. One started and one saw significant playing time. I thought they had more at the time because the one who had transferred from Nebraska got mentioned as the "Nebraska transfer" every time he was near the ball. Delaware had about 6 or 7 transfer on the '03 team 3 of whom started. There were no more transfers on the '03 UD team than the average number of transfers during the Raymond era.

Now If you keep allowing the statements of ESPN "reporters" to color your perception of reality, then I'm afraid you will need to go back to LC and get a refresher course on critical thinking. ;) ;)

If not others will question the value of your LC education and assume that all that academic superiority talk is a bunch of talk made up by ESPN "reporters"!!;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[carney2]

I'm actually a little disappointed in you. You have spent enough time on this board to realize that ESPN "reporters" are dumber than the stuff that comes out of your dog's rear end.

Now If you keep allowing the statements of ESPN "reporters" to color your perception of reality, then I'm afraid you will need to go back to LC and get a refresher course on critical thinking.

If not others will question the value of your LC education and assume that all that academic superiority talk is a bunch of talk made up by ESPN "reporters"!!

I sit here enlightened, chastised and, yes, humbled. I am, however, a better person for the experience.

[GannonFan]

but yeah all the top teams besides app pretty much have a bs transfer qb

??? Geez, the UMass team you're about to face in the title game doesn't have a transfer QB. And I thought the UNI QB you faced last year wasn't a transfer QB either. UNH didn't have one this year, and I'm sure the list is even longer. There are certainly some good transfer QB's, but they are not the norm as you seem to indicate. :nono:

[UMass922]

but yeah all the top teams besides app pretty much have a bs transfer qb

What makes transfer QBs "bs"?

[Black and Gold Express]

What makes transfer QBs "bs"?

BS = Bowl Subdivision.

[blukeys]

I sit here enlightened, chastised and, yes, humbled. I am, however, a better person for the experience.

Now that is the vocabulary and eloquence worthy of a PL grad!!!!!!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[UMass922]

BS = Bowl Subdivision.

Ah, okay. I thought he meant the other thing that "bs" usually means. Not the first or last time that the new nomenclature causes some confusion. I guess this is one good reason to use the "F" in the new abbreviations.

[blukeys]

Ah, okay. I thought he meant the other thing that "bs" usually means. Not the first or last time that the new nomenclature causes some confusion. I guess this is one good reason to use the "F" in the new abbreviations.

I did mean Bowl Division but I was aware that there could be another way to take the abbreviation. :smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi

[*****]

Ah, okay. I thought he meant the other thing that "bs" usually means. Not the first or last time that the new nomenclature causes some confusion. I guess this is one good reason to use the "F" in the new abbreviations.and a good reason not to use the F xlolx

[UMass922]

and a good reason not to use the F xlolx

I'm with you on that. I'd like to think it was intentional on the NCAA's part.

[Fordham]

<obligatory Shawn Johnson reference for UD fans>

Coincidentally, the biggest excitement our football board has had this year took place when it was announced that we have an Indiana transfer playing for us now on the dline. The coaching staff is reportedly raving about him.

insert big thumbs up .... here.

[Mountaineer#96]

At ASU we have had a tradition of home grown talent, every so often we get a few transfers. I remember when new transfers came in from big name schools, most players had a feeling of mistrust to them at first. I know for a fact that I felt little bond to them. It takes time to let them fully into the team. Guys want to know why they transfered, and stuff. Also sometimes these guys are dropping down b/c of off the field problems, so you kinda want to be able to trust them before you play hard with them.

That is why I believe teams with lots of transfers will not fare well down the road, unless they have been there a few years. The playoffs are a time that a teams true self and bond shows.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think it extremely important to point out that a bunch of these "transfers" that folks are talking about on UMass, one came from Lehigh (DL John Hatchell, who transferred to play along with his twin brother best I can tell) and I think three others are Juco's (Dean College in Mass). And their biggest stars (FS James Ihedigbo, QB Liam Coen, RB Steve Baylark, and WR Brandon London) have spent their entire undergrad career at UMass. So calling UMass "Transfer U" is really unfair in this particular case. These guys aren't really "carpetbaggers." As a matter of fact, all their "big college" transfers are from Rutgers, Syracuse, and UConn, with one from West Virginia - all pretty local products!

As for App State, it appears to be less applicable. Fewer transfers (one "carpetbagging" transfer from Army, one from Wake and a couple from East Carolina), and the engines that make the offense and defense go (FS Jeremy Wiggins, QB Armanti Edwards, RB Kevin Richardson) all have spent their undergrad years at App State.

I am NOT a fan of transferring one's way to a Division I football championship, but neither of these teams have done that. IMO that's unfair criticism. :twocents:

[GannonFan]

I think it extremely important to point out that a bunch of these "transfers" that folks are talking about on UMass, one came from Lehigh (DL John Hatchell, who transferred to play along with his twin brother best I can tell) and I think three others are Juco's (Dean College in Mass). And their biggest stars (FS James Ihedigbo, QB Liam Coen, RB Steve Baylark, and WR Brandon London) have spent their entire undergrad career at UMass. So calling UMass "Transfer U" is really unfair in this particular case. These guys aren't really "carpetbaggers." As a matter of fact, all their "big college" transfers are from Rutgers, Syracuse, and UConn, with one from West Virginia - all pretty local products!

As for App State, it appears to be less applicable. Fewer transfers (one "carpetbagging" transfer from Army, one from Wake and a couple from East Carolina), and the engines that make the offense and defense go (FS Jeremy Wiggins, QB Armanti Edwards, RB Kevin Richardson) all have spent their undergrad years at App State.

I am NOT a fan of transferring one's way to a Division I football championship, but neither of these teams have done that. IMO that's unfair criticism. :twocents:

Let me sum this up - it's not Delaware so these transfers are all fine. :nod: :nonono2: :nod: :nonono2: :nod: :nonono2:

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let me sum this up - it's not Delaware so these transfers are all fine. :nod: :nonono2: :nod: :nonono2: :nod: :nonono2:

xlolx

Ah yes, my anti-Blue Hen bias shines through! :rolleyes: You'll note that nowhere in my post did I mention Delaware. How come you're putting words in my mouth? :confused:

PS. I went to the Tub for the UNH game, which had to be one of the best games I've ever seen. You'll notice that nowhere in there did I mention SJ, transfers, or any sort of anti-Delaware harangues.

[Fordham]

xlolx


PS. I went to the Tub for the UNH game, which had to be one of the best games I've ever seen.

"one of" ... you can't just can't help sticking it to these Blue Hen fans, can you LFN?

[henfan]

Lehigh has more Delaware transfers than Delaware has I-A transfers.:smiley_wi

[GannonFan]

I'm just waiting for the comment that Delaware doesn't play fair since they haven't played at Goodman since 1997 or that we have too many home games or that we have an attractive grad school etc. It's coming, just need to wait for it! :smiley_wi

[Appdad]

It is true we only have three and none of them are that crucial and we are defending champs... I dont think it is a problem at all

I am sure you will agree that everyone on the is important and crucial to the success of the team.

[Minuteman87]

UMass may have a lot of D1 drop down transfers, but few of them are key players ... LB Anderson (Vandy) and TE Listorti (Rutgers) are the two I can think off off the top of my head. The rest are backups or non factors.

My feeling is that most fans here would take them... but are OUTRAGED when another school takes them. :nono:

Hey, even Harvard has D1 transfers (Dawson from Northwestern and QB Irvin fron Tulane)

[blukeys]

UMass may have a lot of D1 drop down transfers, but few of them are key players ... LB Anderson (Vandy) and TE Listorti (Rutgers) are the two I can think off off the top of my head. The rest are backups or non factors.

My feeling is that most fans here would take them... but are OUTRAGED when another school takes them. :nono:

Hey, even Harvard has D1 transfers (Dawson from Northwestern and QB Irvin fron Tulane)


Agreed. I love it when Lehigh people complain about Delaware transfers. since 2000 Lehigh has taken 2 QB transfers from Delaware. Why don't they turn them away?????:eyebrow: :eyebrow:

[Peems]

the griz had the most impact transfers out of the final four. swogger, chambers, allen. however, pretty much our entire defense besides freeman(who plays every 6th play or so) is homegrown from the northwest and from montana. the core of our team comes from montana using transfers for skill positions.

[ngineer]

My, my, my seems like the hens don't have feathers, but prickly skin. Me thinks thou dost protest too much....:D ;)