Does this SoCon expansion info sound right?

[GSU Eagle]

Here at GSU I was told by a booster that he understands that there was a "straw poll" to determine views of Coastal Carolina entering the league. He said the vote was 8-3 for it with Furman, Wofford and Appalachian casting the "no" votes. I believe it takes 75% of schools to admit a new school and they would be 9 of 11. So apparently Coastal is 1 vote short of the needed 9 right now. I was told that a full court press was being put on Samford to get them in the league. Whether the SoCon would add just 1 in Samford or 3 schools is still up in the air.

What doesn't seem to make much sense to me about this story is if Chattanooga wants a travel partner they I would assume they would vote "no" on Coastal, but according to my source they voted for bringing in Coastal.

I have to wonder if this story is accurate.

Any thoughts on this supposed vote.

[BrevardMountaineer03]

I haven't heard anything about this....till now.

[BigApp]

travel partner.

What does that mean? Are they going to share a bus or something? Why not get GSU a "travel partner". Savannah State is a perfect fit for that description.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I have no idea, and I am confused about what you wrote.

So the Socon is going to add Samford in football?

[Coastal89]

I have no idea, and I am confused about what you wrote.

So the Socon is going to add Samford in football?
LOL. Then they might as well add Savannah St., they're not that much worse than Samford.

[chattanoogamocs]

LOL. Then they might as well add Savannah St., they're not that much worse than Samford.

Maybe in football this year...but as an overall sports program, there is no comparison between Samford and Savannah State. These decisions aren't just made on one sport.

(note: I think everyone assumes UC is all against CCU...people seem to forget that the CCU AD was the assistant AD at UC...Moose still has a lot of friends here in Chattanooga...I would say UC isn't against CCU, they are just "ambivalent" towards CCU because it is another far away school with little in common, on the sports field, with a school in Tennessee...it isn't anything personal)

I still think what you will see is them go after Samford first, then when they take two more in a (including CCU) in a few more years...apparently, 14 teams will happen (the Commish is pushing it pretty hard).

[appfan2008]

I hope we leave things right where they are

[furpal87]

I think 9 is the right size for football that way everyone gets 4 home and 4 away. I know that 4th OC game was a struggle for some teams. (See GSU and that strange group of teams they played!)

[chattanoogamocs]

I hope we leave things right where they are

unfortunately, I don't think that is an option of the table.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Another question: I feel kind of silly asking this, but what is "a travel buddy"?

[BULLDOG8180]

Another question: I feel kind of silly asking this, but what is "a travel buddy"?

The term travel buddy is used to describe an opponent in close proximity to you. Like Furman Wofford, App Western, etc.

[chattanoogamocs]

what a travel partner is used for is scheduling...it is not a factor in football, but it is in things like basketball, volleyball, etc, etc...if you go to Charleston, you will more than likely play the Citadel too...and when the Citadel is on the road, Charleston usually wont be far behind.

just give an example (from UC WBB sked)

Sat 12/30/2006 *vs Elon The McKenzie Arena 3:00 PM Fox 61-TV
Tue 1/2/2007 *vs UNC Greensboro The McKenzie Arena 7:00 PM

Sat 1/27/2007 *at Elon Elon, N.C. 2:00 PM
Mon 1/29/2007 *at UNC Greensboro Greensboro, N.C. 5:00 PM

This makes scheduling easier and travel more cost effective.

The point of adding a school close to Chattanooga is that if you are going to have to drive all the way over here, it will save money if there is another school close by (meaning, you can play at Chattanooga, stay over one night, and play in B-ham 48 hours later...then go home).

If you go look at the GSU men's BB sked, you play at the Citadel and CofC one weekend and on another you play at Elon and at UNCG.

The more travel partners you can pair up in a conference, the more money you can save on travel.

Natural partners in the SoCon are the trio of Elon/Davidson/UNCG, Furman/Wofford, Citadel/CofC, and somewhat WCU/ASU. The only two odd men out are GSU and UC (which also, surprise, are the only two not in the Carolinas :))

[SouthernEagle02]

Don't know, but I'd rather have Jax St. over Samford.

[chattanoogamocs]

JSU would be my first choice also...UC has begun to develop a pretty good rivalry with them (we don't really have a rivalry with Samford)...quite honestly, most Chattanooga fans are as ambivalent with Samford as they are with CCU.

What I would really rather see is JSU/Samford...then it makes it really "worth the trip" for other SoCon schools...one has good football, one has good basketball...one is private, one is public...etc, etc...plus, they love hating each other :)

Throw in ETSU bringing back football and coming back to the conference they belong and you have a great looking conference with a very nice EXPANDED footprint with 5 states represented with nearly a 1/3 of them outside of the Carolinas. :thumbsup:

Obviously, this is biased Chattanooga position :)
(and no offense to CCU intended...like I said before, I am not really for or against the Chants)

[youwouldno]

JSU won't be admitted for academic reasons. Some people have said there is widespread opposition to CCU, not just Furman/Wofford/App St, but also at least Citadel, Davidson, Elon, CoC, and probably UTC, whatever connections people at UTC have to CCU. Personally I have no inside info.

Samford's hiring of Pat Sullivan as HFC can't have hurt their cause. Samford is basically Elon, just in Alabama, which means they won't strengthen the conference per se, but it does expand the footprint some people are worried about, and there are no academic concerns.

[chattanoogamocs]

Samford's hiring of Pat Sullivan as HFC can't have hurt their cause. Samford is basically Elon, just in Alabama, which means they won't strengthen the conference per se, but it does expand the footprint some people are worried about, and there are no academic concerns.

They are also head long into building a $32 mil, 5,000 seat, basketball arena (not exactly Elon and their 1,500(?) seat cracker box)

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/samf/sports/genrel/auto_action/700501.jpeg

http://samfordsports.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/101806aab.html

[JaxSinfonian]

Nice to see the interest in JSU from SoCon fans. I wish your conference's presidents felt the same way. It's really demoralizing to see them salivating over Samford. I console myself with this: they want a member in Alabama, but not one that could actually hang Ls on them in football. (JSU 55, Samford 7 ... and we weren't even good this year).

But anyway, chattanoogamocs is right, JSU & Samford as a pair would make a lot of sense in the SoCon, just as they have in the OVC. Unfortunately, if your league takes just one of us, the other is stuck in an OVC that suddenly makes very little geographic sense for them. If chattanoogamocs' prediction is right and the SoCon gets Samford first and then chases other members later, I hope JSU would be one of those members ... and that it would be sooner rather than later.

I am satisfied with JSU in the OVC, but not without Samford. Likewise, I don't know that I'd support a move to the SoCon with the puppies tagging along. Whatever happens, I think JSU, Samford and UTC all should wind up in a conference together. That would have been so much simpler if the Mocs had just accepted the OVC's invitation. ;)

(Gonna get off-topic here, sorry) Oh, and chattanoogamocs ... on JSU football vs. Samford basketball. We do own them on the girdiron lately, but their basketball advantage isn't that lopsided. We did lose to them this week, but it was by one point. We split with them last year, and played the eventual conference champ much closer in the tourney semifinal than they did in the final. Plus, we've got a DII National Championship banner hanging in our house. :)

[chattanoogamocs]

I only meant that Samford is more basketball oriented (or focused) and JSU is more football oriented...at least that is how it looks from a fan in Chattanooga...and that having Samford would appease smaller school, private school, basketball school fans...and JSU would appease larger school, public school, football school fans

...and together, they would bring a lot of balance to a very "complicated" SoCon family :)

Heck, ETSU will take forever...lets just take Samford, JSU, and CCU...and be done with it!

[BALD EAGLE]

lets just take Samford, JSU, and CCU...and be done with it!
I agree.


Ga. Southern's Playoff Record - 38 and 10

GO EAGLES

[Saint3333]

Nice to see the interest in JSU from SoCon fans. I wish your conference's presidents felt the same way. It's really demoralizing to see them salivating over Samford. I console myself with this: they want a member in Alabama, but not one that could actually hang Ls on them in football. (JSU 55, Samford 7 ... and we weren't even good this year).



I've wrote ASU's AD about 2 months ago stating why JSU would be the best option for expansion. He agreed with my comments, but did get much more feedback than that.

[JaxSinfonian]

I've wrote ASU's AD about 2 months ago stating why JSU would be the best option for expansion. He agreed with my comments, but did get much more feedback than that.

Wow ... thanks. All of you who feel the same should start a co-ordinated letter-writing campaign to SoCon ADs and prez's. Who knows, it might actually work.

[Cocky]

JSU won't be admitted for academic reasons. .

What is your basis for this statement?

[gophoenix]

Lets just take Samford, JSU, and CCU...and be done with it!

I'd be okay with that. I'd also be okay with Tenn Tech instead of Samford or Jax State.

I also don't see any Elon problems with Coastal. We were in a conference with them before, why not now? The fans like them. And I have heard no coaches or admins that were against them.

As for Samford. Elon is strong in Baseball, always has been. Samford has been really strong in basketball in the past. As for our cracker box, who cares, we've yet to turn away any visiting fans, only home fans. Besides, we have a $10+ million arena on the horizon.

[CCU97]

From what I hear CCU was one vote short as well....so at this point why would CCU want to join the SoCon? What would be an advantage for them as for football...they would be in the middle of the pack fighting to get to the top....maybe they make the playoffs....maybe not....as for the other sports....not just including last year...but several years...the Big South has been close or higher than the the SoCon in most sports....At this point CCU's best thing for them would be to find other teams to join the Big South since the SoCon has shown they don't want Coastal. Yes, 3 teams don't mean the conference as a whole....but it is enough to keep CCU out...so why would that change?

[SoCon48]

Something about these expansion talks reminds me of the last stadium renovations at App. We lost 1500 seats.

[chattanoogamocs]

since the SoCon has shown they don't want Coastal.

If the original comment is correct, CCU got 8 out of 11 (and need 9)...you make it sound like the whole conference is against you.

I wish I could get 8 out of 11 to agree with me on anything.

[appfan2008]

We need to get those seats back by adding an upper deck to the east side!

[youwouldno]

The Big South is not "close or higher" than the SoCon in "most sports." Last season the Big South finished 1 spot ahead in basketball, which is the only time that's happened... and normally the SoCon is ahead by multiple spots. The SoCon is better in baseball, last year by a lot, and of course much better in football, and superior in almost every, if not every other sport as well. That's why CCU wants in.


What is your basis for this statement?

I'm not trying to smack JSU, but academics are a big part of conference affiliations. The SoCon has a lot of strong academic schools and they want to maintain or strengthen that aspect of the conference. JSU, according to published stats anyway, is less selective in admissions than any SoCon school, though it's in the same ballpark as WCU, UTC, and GSU.

CCU is much closer to the SoCon average, while Samford is about average to a slight tick above. This is the main thing in Samford's favor... otherwise the SoCon probably would go after JSU.

[tarmac]

"We need to get those seats back by adding an upper deck to the east side!"



Good chance KBS will have extra seats on the East side by September 2007. How many, don't know but could be up to 10,000.

[The Dude]

I'd rather see CCU stay in the Big South (but not because I don't like them). A good Big South is good for I-FCS and CCU anchors the conference. The Big South is constantly improving, but I think CCU jumping ship would hinder that improvement.

[gophoenix]

From what I hear CCU was one vote short as well....so at this point why would CCU want to join the SoCon? What would be an advantage for them as for football...they would be in the middle of the pack fighting to get to the top....maybe they make the playoffs....maybe not....as for the other sports....not just including last year...but several years...the Big South has been close or higher than the the SoCon in most sports....At this point CCU's best thing for them would be to find other teams to join the Big South since the SoCon has shown they don't want Coastal. Yes, 3 teams don't mean the conference as a whole....but it is enough to keep CCU out...so why would that change?


Ok, so lay out what sports the Big South is better than the SoCon. There are reasons that Elon, UNCG and Davidson left the Big South to come here and there is a reason your admins want to come here.

Last year the SoCon was one spot worse than the Big South in Men's Basketball. That's the first time in all the RPI listings on the net that that happened and the majority of the rests with just how great Winthrop has become.

The SoCon is much better at baseball since Elon came here (which hurt the Big South) and without Birmingham-Southern, that only hurts the Big South more.

Men's Soccer, Women's Soccer, Men's Tennis, Women's Tennis, Softball and Women's Basketball were all rated higher than the Big South for the past two seasons.

Not only that, but football games with Elon, The Citadel, Furman, Wofford and App will be good for your football gate. Heck, we took well over 1000 to Conway. You can't tell me that that many fans came down from Liberty (no knock on them, its a long way) or that Charleston Southern has that many fans period. How does Gardner-Webb travel? They used to bring 100 or so to Elon and we had over 40 years of tradition with them. Presbyterian on the other hand might travel well to Conway.

So, I'm just not seeing it.

Though, I don't understand why App would vote no. As much as App fans gripe about private schools, you'd think they'd be all for a school that is in essence like Western Carolina except its on the coast. I also find it amusing that Furman and Wofford would vote no probably on some academics grounds while Davidson votes yes.

And if App is voting no, this better mean they have some commitments to conference and aren't affecting future membership when they may not even be here.

[Cocky]

The Big South is not "close or higher" than the SoCon in "most sports." Last season the Big South finished 1 spot ahead in basketball, which is the only time that's happened... and normally the SoCon is ahead by multiple spots. The SoCon is better in baseball, last year by a lot, and of course much better in football, and superior in almost every, if not every other sport as well. That's why CCU wants in.



I'm not trying to smack JSU, but academics are a big part of conference affiliations. The SoCon has a lot of strong academic schools and they want to maintain or strengthen that aspect of the conference. JSU, according to published stats anyway, is less selective in admissions than any SoCon school, though it's in the same ballpark as WCU, UTC, and GSU.

CCU is much closer to the SoCon average, while Samford is about average to a slight tick above. This is the main thing in Samford's favor... otherwise the SoCon probably would go after JSU.

Our admissions maybe less than some but our results of graduates aren't bad. Our business school was ranked as one of the top schools in the nation by Princeton Review. Our results are very comparable to most public universities, but probably not quite as high as most privates.

[SoCon48]

Our results are very comparable to most public universities, but probably not quite as high as most privates

You mean "some privates" For every lax admission standard public there are open admission privates, too.

[JaxSinfonian]

This is way beyond the topic of football, but I've got a philosophical problem with admissions standards being considered the measure of an institution's quality. It is not JSU's mission to seek out the kids with the highest ACT scores and get them on campus as trophies. JSU exists to provide a broad education to anyone who seeks it, as I'm sure is the case at many regional, state-supported schools. That is a crucial service in our society, and those insitutions that perform it well should be proud.

This is not intended to demean more selective institutions, but what's the challenge in taking the brightest, most capable students and turning them into college graduates? What those institutions do essentially is gem-cutting. They polish rough diamonds into finished stones. Less-selective schools have the greater challenge, to mold simple clay into something beautiful.

But the great thing is that so many of both those kinds of instutitions sponsor football teams, giving us all an excuse to waste time and drink beer.

[appfan2008]

I am not sure why academia matters as to why a university joins a conference for athletics

[Millwoch]

I know that the vote already took place for SOCON expansion and Samford not CCU got the nod. Which schools voted where I am not sure of (I am confident that FU and Wofford voted no on CCU. I would guess that Citadel would have voted no as well, but not sure on that). There will be site visits by all SOCON schools to Samford this spring with a final vote sometime later. Samford will join the SOCON in '08 including football.

[OL FU]

This is way beyond the topic of football, but I've got a philosophical problem with admissions standards being considered the measure of an institution's quality. It is not JSU's mission to seek out the kids with the highest ACT scores and get them on campus as trophies. JSU exists to provide a broad education to anyone who seeks it, as I'm sure is the case at many regional, state-supported schools. That is a crucial service in our society, and those insitutions that perform it well should be proud.

This is not intended to demean more selective institutions, but what's the challenge in taking the brightest, most capable students and turning them into college graduates? What those institutions do essentially is gem-cutting. They polish rough diamonds into finished stones. Less-selective schools have the greater challenge, to mold simple clay into something beautiful.

But the great thing is that so many of both those kinds of instutitions sponsor football teams, giving us all an excuse to waste time and drink beer.

I agree.

The SoCon is not the IVY league. We are also not the PAtriot League. I understand and have no problem with their missions.

We, the SoCon, should attempt to find quality credible institutions that can compete in sports.

[Pard4Life]

The Ivy League is the most notable travel partner schedule in my mind. Penn is partner with Princeton so you would have...


Friday - Penn at Yale; Princeton at Brown
Saturday - Princeton at Yale; Penn at Brown

And Princeton would play Penn on a weekday in the middle and end of the year... same with the other partners. Patriot League uses this model too. We are on a Wednesday/Saturday swing (don't like it).

[Pard4Life]

I am not sure why academia matters as to why a university joins a conference for athletics

Maintaining the student-athlete image.... i.e. where the players on the teams reflect the university population at-large.. i.e. All-American LB Maurice Bennett getting a Wall Street job, our 2004 All-Ameican OL going to Stanford grad school etc...

[OL FU]

Maintaining the student-athlete image.... i.e. where the players on the teams reflect the university population at-large.. i.e. All-American LB Maurice Bennett getting a Wall Street job, our 2004 All-Ameican OL going to Stanford grad school etc...

The SoCon has some very good academic schools, but if our mission is going to be to have only top rated academic southern schools the I agree with others. Our decline will continue.

[BigApp]

I don't understand why App would vote no...you'd think they'd be all for a school that is in essence like Western Carolina except its on the coast.


I think you answered your own question! :smiley_wi

[youwouldno]

This is way beyond the topic of football, but I've got a philosophical problem with admissions standards being considered the measure of an institution's quality. It is not JSU's mission to seek out the kids with the highest ACT scores and get them on campus as trophies. JSU exists to provide a broad education to anyone who seeks it, as I'm sure is the case at many regional, state-supported schools. That is a crucial service in our society, and those insitutions that perform it well should be proud.

This is not intended to demean more selective institutions, but what's the challenge in taking the brightest, most capable students and turning them into college graduates? What those institutions do essentially is gem-cutting. They polish rough diamonds into finished stones. Less-selective schools have the greater challenge, to mold simple clay into something beautiful.

But the great thing is that so many of both those kinds of instutitions sponsor football teams, giving us all an excuse to waste time and drink beer.

There's definitely nothing wrong with what JSU does as an institution, or any other legitimate place of higher learning, just because of admissions standards. Personally I think the most important thing in looking at a potential new conference member is how many of their players graduate... I have no idea what those numbers are for JSU, Samford, CCU, etc.

The SoCon Presidents and ADs are concerned with overall academic reputation, I suppose they want to be associated with programs that have good reputations themselves, fair or not. I don't think that's automatically bad for the conference... the top 3 in the conference this year were App St, good public school, and two private schools, FU and Woffy.

[SoccerSmells]

Totally inaccurate on the 8-3 straw poll. Boosters have no clue most of the time.

Fact ... the presidents voted not to expand ... at all, for the current time.

[OL FU]

Totally inaccurate on the 8-3 straw poll. Boosters have no clue most of the time.

Fact ... the presidents voted not to expand ... at all, for the current time.

How do you know that?

[SoccerSmells]

[ How do you know that? ]

Not sharing that tidbit, but it's true.

[OL FU]

[ How do you know that? ]

Not sharing that tidbit, but it's true.

Ok, but understand that makes your credibility about as high as minexlolx

[SoccerSmells]

Understood. Just wanted to throw that out there. I was surprised, but an 8 team league isn't all bad. Not sure why everybody is always wanting to move conferences anyway. Just stay at home and build things from scratch. :twocents:

[LeopardFan04]

The Ivy League is the most notable travel partner schedule in my mind. Penn is partner with Princeton so you would have...


Friday - Penn at Yale; Princeton at Brown
Saturday - Princeton at Yale; Penn at Brown

And Princeton would play Penn on a weekday in the middle and end of the year... same with the other partners. Patriot League uses this model too. We are on a Wednesday/Saturday swing (don't like it).

I don't like it and players that I've talked to don't...but at least Wed/Sat is better than the Friday/Sunday Ivy League ripoff we did for a couple of years...I see why it's done, but it makes for tired legs on Sunday...

[OL FU]

Understood. Just wanted to throw that out there. I was surprised, but an 8 team league isn't all bad. Not sure why everybody is always wanting to move conferences anyway. Just stay at home and build things from scratch. :twocents:

I believe that is a more appropriate statement for Samford than Coastal. Wtih Coastal, it is easy to see that they want to compete in the football arena and the SoCon helps. Why would Samford be so interested in the SoCon?

[gophoenix]

Samford has always been interested in the conference.

I disagree with everyone on academics being a consideration. Doesn't everyone remember the moaning the ACC schools had about Virginia Tech?

To be honest, I think it is a delicate balance. Just because you want to take in fine academic institutions doesn't mean you can't be a fine athletic conference too. I mean, look at the CAA for the most part. The SoCon for the most part is the same way.


I think you answered your own question! :smiley_wi

But I thought App fans like Western?

[OL FU]

Samford has always been interested in the conference.

I disagree with everyone on academics being a consideration. Doesn't everyone remember the moaning the ACC schools had about Virginia Tech?

To be honest, I think it is a delicate balance. Just because you want to take in fine academic institutions doesn't mean you can't be a fine athletic conference too. I mean, look at the CAA for the most part. The SoCon for the most part is the same way.



But I thought App fans like Western?

I don't think academis is unimportant but if Furman and Wofford are voting against CCU because of academics then it is probably stretching the point.

[OL FU]

I suppose the reason Samford wants in the SoCon is that it would have the company of some similar schools which I suppose it does not have in the OVC.

[FurmanPaladins4138]

I would like to see Coastal join...it would be nice to play them on a regular basis.

[walliver]

Samford has always been interested in the conference.

I disagree with everyone on academics being a consideration. Doesn't everyone remember the moaning the ACC schools had about Virginia Tech?

To be honest, I think it is a delicate balance. Just because you want to take in fine academic institutions doesn't mean you can't be a fine athletic conference too. I mean, look at the CAA for the most part. The SoCon for the most part is the same way.



But I thought App fans like Western?

Actually they do, but not in public.:D

As far as straw polls or not, my impression is that the SoCon generally moves by consensus. One firm NO vote would likely be enough to keep a new member out. Or at least I have assumed that that is why ASU abstained from voting on Elon. (Or maybe their chancellor stepped out to the little boys room and they had a quick vote):D

[OL FU]

[ How do you know that? ]

Not sharing that tidbit, but it's true.

Well Riddle me this:eek:

Since the conference made it clear they were voting on the issue, why haven't they announced the vote on expansion.

You don't have to reveal sources?

[EKU05]

I'd be okay with that. I'd also be okay with Tenn Tech instead of Samford or Jax State.

I also don't see any Elon problems with Coastal. We were in a conference with them before, why not now? The fans like them. And I have heard no coaches or admins that were against them.

As for Samford. Elon is strong in Baseball, always has been. Samford has been really strong in basketball in the past. As for our cracker box, who cares, we've yet to turn away any visiting fans, only home fans. Besides, we have a $10+ million arena on the horizon.

Now way that would ever happen...Tech is a basketball loving school and an OVC member since 1949. I think JSU is pretty unlikely as well. Samford is your best bet, but I think you're getting ahead of yourselves assuming that any of these schools would want to go through with it.

Coastal certainly would...if I were the commish of the SoCon I'd have had them signed up a long time ago. They have some serious commitment to football and athletics in general right now.

[GSU Eagle]

Personally I would much rather see Coastal in than Samford. They would help the conference more in football and would give a big boost in baseball. Not sure what Samford really brings.

I understand the decision is being driven by a desire to give Chattanooga a school somewhere near them. When Chattanooga turned down the OVC I understand they were promised the next SoCon addition would be someone in some proximity to them. Samford fits that bill I guess.

The question really is does the SoCon expand by 1 or 3.

The poster who says the presidents voted not to expand-- everything I have read and have been told by people here at GSU tells me at least 1 new addition is coming in the next couple of years. I know the football playing schools have really been pushing to add a 9th football playing school so the schedule can go back to 4 home/4 away conference games.

Any Samford posters on the board at all who can give us any information?

[gophoenix]

You can try searching their message board.

http://www.samfordbulldogs.com/

[The Gadfly]

If the rumor is true I don't understand why ASU doesn't want Coastal $$$. They know we travel very well. I'll lay down a cold cash bet that we travel better than Samford.

There is no way in hell that I'm going to say that the Big South is better than the SoCon. The admin and marketing in the SoCon is much better also. However, if the SoCon decides only to admit Samford. . . xidiotx . What would the conference look like when ASU and GSU leave in 5 years: Citadel, Elon, Samford, Wofford, Furman, Western Carolina, UC? Hell, just stay in the Big South. HOPEFULLY by that time it will look like this: Coastal, Presby, Gardner-Webb, Liberty, VMI, Charleston Southern, with maybe a SC State, Valdosta State (if they improve facilities), Wingate, Campbell, or Hampton. Now that I think about it, maybe it is better that we stay.

[gophoenix]

ASU and GSU leave

And that is one of my biggest points. It is hard to believe that App would be playing such a key role in who is and isn't admitted if they are leaving. I mean, if they are leaving, then leave the decision to who's going to be left.

But who knows. It was all closed door. For all we know the vote was to get someone like Samford in first, then once that happens, then you act on filling the other two positions.

I still say Samford, Coastal and someone else would be easily the best scenario. I don't care if that someone else is Liberty, Jax State or Hampton. Just get the decision taken care of, get the conference stable and lets move on.

[SoCon48]

And that is one of my biggest points. It is hard to believe that App would be playing such a key role in who is and isn't admitted if they are leaving. I mean, if they are leaving, then leave the decision to who's going to be left.

But who knows. It was all closed door. For all we know the vote was to get someone like Samford in first, then once that happens, then you act on filling the other two positions.

I still say Samford, Coastal and someone else would be easily the best scenario. I don't care if that someone else is Liberty, Jax State or Hampton. Just get the decision taken care of, get the conference stable and lets move on.

App has no immediate plans for leaving, thus, they should vote accordingly.

[chattanoogamocs]

Personally I would much rather see Coastal in than Samford. They would help the conference more in football and would give a big boost in baseball. Not sure what Samford really brings.

I understand the decision is being driven by a desire to give Chattanooga a school somewhere near them. When Chattanooga turned down the OVC I understand they were promised the next SoCon addition would be someone in some proximity to them. Samford fits that bill I guess.

The question really is does the SoCon expand by 1 or 3.

The poster who says the presidents voted not to expand-- everything I have read and have been told by people here at GSU tells me at least 1 new addition is coming in the next couple of years. I know the football playing schools have really been pushing to add a 9th football playing school so the schedule can go back to 4 home/4 away conference games.

Any Samford posters on the board at all who can give us any information?

Chattanooga was not promised anything...and Samford had been rumored (many just wouldn't listen) for at least a year before it was leaked that the OVC was looking at UC.

If anything, I think the moved was based on the instance of the privates than it was UC...but I do think the conference felt it could kill two birds with one stone :)

[GSU Eagle]

Do you believe Samford will be in the SoCon by 2008-09?

From what you hear at Chattanooga do you believe the conference is looking at expansion by 1 or by 3?

[ncguitarplyr]

socon needs to focus on improving its basketball...let liberty/winthrop in if they wanna join

[chattanoogamocs]

Do you believe Samford will be in the SoCon by 2008-09?

From what you hear at Chattanooga do you believe the conference is looking at expansion by 1 or by 3?

Every source I have heard (media and school admin) said that they want to get one in first...take a breather...then add two more.

The Commish seems to be pushing 14 pretty hard.

As for who is really being looked at (outside of Samford)...I don't really know (just a lot of rumors and maybes and possibles)

Of course, you never really know what will happen...Samford was protesting publicly that they were happy in the OVC...then 8 weeks later they are the leading candidate. :eyebrow:

I think some of the admins are better at keeping a secret than we give them credit for :)

By the by...a little basketball talk...I was told yesterday that the 20 game men's sked did pass for next year, so they will go back to just one division and everyone plays each other twice...it will stay that way until a 12 member is found and then it will go back to divisions.

[SoCon48]

Every source I have heard (media and school admin) said that they want to get one in first...take a breather...then add two more.

The Commish seems to be pushing 14 pretty hard.

As for who is really being looked at (outside of Samford)...I don't really know (just a lot of rumors and maybes and possibles)

Of course, you never really know what will happen...Samford was protesting publicly that they were happy in the OVC...then 8 weeks later they are the leading candidate. :eyebrow:

I think some of the admins are better at keeping a secret than we give them credit for :)

By the by...a little basketball talk...I was told yesterday that the 20 game men's sked did pass for next year, so they will go back to just one division and everyone plays each other twice...it will stay that way until a 12 member is found and then it will go back to divisions.

Question: Do most moc fans really want Samford in?

[OL FU]

I don't think we should grow just to grow. I will be the first to admit that I don't understand the economics of college sports conferences nor do I understand all that is trying to be acheived in such conferences.

I do think we should have 9 football playing teams for scheduling purposes. That also gives you a cushion if someone leaves, planned or othrewise. If Chattanooga asked or demanded the next member be geographically close to them, I understand and I would agree that should be a priority. So maybe Samford is meets that agenda. I just wish we would pick someone who has dedicated some resources to football and Samford has not done that.

[gophoenix]

Of course, you never really know what will happen...Samford was protesting publicly that they were happy in the OVC...then 8 weeks later they are the leading candidate.

That is typical though. It's like going for a job interview at another company. You don't let your current company know your interviewing until you are pretty much guaranteed a job. Samford just doesn't want to burn their bridge.


Question: Do most moc fans really want Samford in?

There are a good core of them on the Samford board that would seem to want them. That's not to say they all do or don't. But I am sure someone close is better than no one close. A better question is, does 75% of the rest of the conference want someone to pair with UTC for games?


I just wish we would pick someone who has dedicated some resources to football and Samford has not done that.

Hiring Sullivan for head coach is sure a good start. And their new arena is another good indication. But then, Coastal has done that too.

And that's not to be automatically disagreeing with you I-AA 2006. I know you're against Samford. But I am jsut giving devil's advocate arguments in their favor too.

IMHO, we should pull in Samford and Coastal now and not wait. Then work hard to get the next good candidate for a 14th team. Or heck, leave it at 13.

Another issue at hand is more in the question of other sports.
Men's Soccer has 8
Softball has 8
Both Tennis' have 10
Wrestling has 6

For three sports, the SoCon gets fairly close to the minimum conference requirement for schools if schools decide to leave.

[chattanoogamocs]

There are a good core of them on the Samford board that would seem to want them. That's not to say they all do or don't. But I am sure someone close is better than no one close. A better question is, does 75% of the rest of the conference want someone to pair with UTC for games?

Four or five people going over to the Samford board (including me) is not what I would consider a "good core"...it is four or five people (and two of them live Alabama, so there is a good reason why they would be excited)

As for the real "core" of people here in town, when you mention Samford, most just shrug their shoulder and say, "ok."

Like I said, it is nothing against them, we just don't have much recent history (we haven't played in them in football or basketball in three years)...I am sure if they joined it would be a nice rivalry.

Now if you told people that JSU was going to join, Chattanooga fans would be like "cool!", mainly because of how "testy" (but in a good way I think) the football rivalry has been the last three years...especially considering both teams lost at home in the last minute the last two years.

We have had more JSU fans post during football this year on Mocfans than everyone in the SoCon put together.

[SoCon48]

As for the real "core" of people here in town, when you mention Samford, most just shrug their shoulder and say, "ok."

That's what I thought.

[OL FU]

As for the real "core" of people here in town, when you mention Samford, most just shrug their shoulder and say, "ok."

That's what I thought.

Hmm, as he shakes his head, I don't get it at all.

Please Socon, if we go to Alabama, go for JSU.

[appmountaineermaniac]

let in winthrop liberty and coastal that to me would make good sense or add samford in place of winthrop because i dont see winthrop getting football i assume they dont have a team and then there bball would kill in the socon

[gophoenix]

It's more like 12 posters. But the deal is, those are regular posters on the UTC board. And what I meant by core is that there are constantly the same 12 plus more that keep talking this SoCon thing up on the Samford board.

[SoCon48]

Hmm, as he shakes his head, I don't get it at all.

Please Socon, if we go to Alabama, go for JSU.
I think somebody has been meeting someone at IHOP.

[BearsCountry]

I know its not a football school but I though UNC Wilimington wasn't happy wtih CAA or was that just a rumor?

[chattanoogamocs]

It's more like 12 posters. But the deal is, those are regular posters on the UTC board. And what I meant by core is that there are constantly the same 12 plus more that keep talking this SoCon thing up on the Samford board.

Talking up this SoCon thing? There is one thread (started by the board admin for Samford...who emailed me asking if I had heard anything on this end) that is about 3 pages down the list (with the last post on Nov 24th). Wow...the chatter is enormous! You yourself have spent a lot more time over there the last year "talking it up" than any of the Moc fans.

Core group =

1. mocs123 (who only posts occasionally on Mocfans)
2. UTChattanooga1987 (who only start posting a month or two ago and lives in Wash, DC)
3. gomocs (my 2nd in command who lives in Alabama)
4. gomocs82 (a regular poster from Georgia)
5. and me.

(the exact "4 or 5" that I mentioned that I said previously)

Of course, after spending 30 years in the SoCon with no school closer than 4 hours away Chattanoogans will show some support for ANY school that is within two hours, but as I stated earlier, the general attitude towards the idea of Samford is ambivalence (people aren't against it, but they aren't organizing a parade either).

Go over to Moc fans and post a poll...ask if they would rather have JSU or Samford...I am willing to bet it would at least 2 to 1 for JSU. (though if you threw in JSU and Samford...it would be about 95%)

But hell, what would I know? I just live here. I guess we should defer to someone living in North Carolina to know what the true pulse of what Moc fans want. :bang:

[SoCon48]

Talking up this SoCon thing? There is one thread (started by the board admin for Samford...who emailed me asking if I had heard anything on this end) that is about 3 pages down the list (with the last post on Nov 24th). Wow...the chatter is enormous! You yourself have spent a lot more time over there the last year "talking it up" than any of the Moc fans.

Core group =

1. mocs123 (who only posts occasionally on Mocfans)
2. UTChattanooga1987 (who only start posting a month or two ago and lives in Wash, DC)
3. gomocs (my 2nd in command who lives in Alabama)
4. gomocs82 (a regular poster from Georgia)
5. and me.

(the exact "4 or 5" that I mentioned that I said previously)

Of course, after spending 30 years in the SoCon with no school closer than 4 hours away Chattanoogans will show some support for ANY school that is within two hours, but as I stated earlier, the general attitude towards the idea of Samford is ambivalence (people aren't against it, but they aren't organizing a parade either).

Go over to Moc fans and post a poll...ask if they would rather have JSU or Samford...I am willing to bet it would at least 2 to 1 for JSU. (though if you threw in JSU and Samford...it would be about 95%)

But hell, what would I know? I just live here. I guess we should defer to someone living in North Carolina to know what the true pulse of what Moc fans want. :bang:


OUCH!!

[gophoenix]

Talking up this SoCon thing? There is one thread (started by the board admin for Samford...who emailed me asking if I had heard anything on this end) that is about 3 pages down the list (with the last post on Nov 24th). Wow...the chatter is enormous! You yourself have spent a lot more time over there the last year "talking it up" than any of the Moc fans.

Core group =

1. mocs123 (who only posts occasionally on Mocfans)
2. UTChattanooga1987 (who only start posting a month or two ago and lives in Wash, DC)
3. gomocs (my 2nd in command who lives in Alabama)
4. gomocs82 (a regular poster from Georgia)
5. and me.

(the exact "4 or 5" that I mentioned that I said previously)

Of course, after spending 30 years in the SoCon with no school closer than 4 hours away Chattanoogans will show some support for ANY school that is within two hours, but as I stated earlier, the general attitude towards the idea of Samford is ambivalence (people aren't against it, but they aren't organizing a parade either).

Go over to Moc fans and post a poll...ask if they would rather have JSU or Samford...I am willing to bet it would at least 2 to 1 for JSU. (though if you threw in JSU and Samford...it would be about 95%)

But hell, what would I know? I just live here. I guess we should defer to someone living in North Carolina to know what the true pulse of what Moc fans want. :bang:

That's not what I am saying. I am saying I did a search on their board for SoCon read through the threads talking about Samford and the SoCon and counted 12 UTC posters that were consistent.

And did I ever say that UTC fans wouldn't pick JSU over Samford? Not at all. I didn't say anyone would pick Samford over JSU. Cripes some of you get super sensitive.

[chattanoogamocs]

I am not super sensitive...just tired you always acting like you know what is going on here in Chattanooga...when typically you haven't a clue.

...and I find it very ironic that you would accuse anyone of being super sensitive considering how wound up you get whenever anyone says anything about Elon (especially ASU fans). :)

[OL FU]

Go over to Moc fans and post a poll...ask if they would rather have JSU or Samford...I am willing to bet it would at least 2 to 1 for JSU. (though if you threw in JSU and Samford...it would be about 95%)

I'd vote for that even if it gave us one too many football teams

[chattanoogamocs]

BTW--I went over to their board and did a search under SoCon like you did...except I couldn't find anymore posters than I listed above...the only thing I saw was that gomocs82 has visited pretty regularly and would post whenever he heard anything new on our board (about UC to the OVC or SU to the SoCon)...of course, gomocs82 like to converse with people from other schools and posts on EVERY board...heck, including the UMass board this week.

[OL FU]

Six or seven months ago I paid a visit to the Samford board and the general consensus at the time was why should they move to a football conference. Of course that was before any apparent overtures from the SoCon.

[gophoenix]

I am not super sensitive...just tired you always acting like you know what is going on here in Chattanooga...when typically you haven't a clue.

I have as much of a clue as most of the UTC fans seem to. For God's sake I don't know everything, but then I read enough boards to get a good impression of the idea from others.


BTW--I went over to their board and did a search under SoCon like you did...except I couldn't find anymore posters than I listed above...the only thing I saw was that gomocs82 has visited pretty regularly and would post whenever he heard anything new on our board (about UC to the OVC or SU to the SoCon)...of course, gomocs82 like to converse with people from other schools and posts on EVERY board...heck, including the UMass board this week.


Go read the threads. There are moc fans who don't use moc user names. It's a stupid argument. If you so there aren't any, fine, there aren't any. This isn't worth arguing about.
And let me say "ouch" before JCline gets himself together to do it.

[SoCon48]

I have as much of a clue as most of the UTC fans seem to. For God's sake I don't know everything, but then I read enough boards to get a good impression of the idea from others.



Go read the threads. There are moc fans who don't use moc user names. It's a stupid argument. If you so there aren't any, fine, there aren't any. This isn't worth arguing about.
And let me say "ouch" before JCline gets himself together to do it.

Oh, I'm together, just this one doesn't warrant an "OUCH". Not even a little "oohey."

[gophoenix]

And let me say "ouch" before JCline gets himself together to do it.

Uhm, no, Ouch would have been your response to CM's last message to me.

[SoCon48]

Uhm, no, Ouch would have been your response to CM's last message to me.

Oh.

[chattanoogamocs]

I completely agree Adam, you made a stupid argument.

Oh wait, I'm sorry, I read that wrong...."it's" a stupid argument. :smiley_wi

[gophoenix]

I completely agree Adam, you made a stupid argument.

Oh wait, I'm sorry, I read that wrong...."it's" a stupid argument. :smiley_wi

I can never remember which one is possessive. :)

Most of my argument was completely devil's advocate. I don't know what's going on in Chatty more than I know what's going on at Wofford.

I just want some sort of stability on the conference.

[SoCon48]

I can never remember which one is possessive. :)

Most of my argument was completely devil's advocate. I don't know what's going on in Chatty more than I know what's going on at Wofford.

I just want some sort of stability on the conference.

Simple. It's means it is. That's all you have to remember.
Now. The biggest peeve of mine is your for you're.

[ASU_Chad]

I have seen Liberty thrown around on here a few times. I think by no means should Liberty even be considered because of Jerry Falwell. I know I would never want to be associated with him.

[ThompsonThe]

Seems like I read somewhere that E.T.S.U. was considering reactivating
football and getting back into to SoCon if possible. Has anyone else heard anything about that?

[CoastalFan2005]

I have seen Liberty thrown around on here a few times. I think by no means should Liberty even be considered because of Jerry Falwell. I know I would never want to be associated with him.

Despite who he is as a person, I think the belief among Liberty students/alums is that he cares more about the progress of the University than anyone else. SuperJon, help me out with this one.

[OL FU]

Despite who he is as a person, I think the belief among Liberty students/alums is that he cares more about the progress of the University than anyone else. SuperJon, help me out with this one.


The reason Liberty should not be considered is simple. They have stated officially they want to be BS in ten years. Whether or not that is a possible acheivement is not important. That being their goal should disqualify them.

If they said 25 years, it might be a different situation but when you can't invite a team that has publicly stated they will be gone in 10 years and year one has already passed.

[CoastalFan2005]

The reason Liberty should not be considered is simple. They have stated officially they want to be BS in ten years. Whether or not that is a possible acheivement is not important. That being their goal should disqualify them.

If they said 25 years, it might be a different situation but when you can't invite a team that has publicly stated they will be gone in 10 years and year one has already passed.

Oh, I don't disagree with that - just trying to point out that basing a desire for disassociation from Jerry Falwell solely on who he is as a person isn't the best way to look at him. He's very, very committed to the growth of that University.

I do agree - any University that states it's going to be gone from FCS in 10 years or less would be a risky pick to add to any conference (as far as stablility would go).

[OL FU]

Oh, I don't disagree with that - just trying to point out that basing a desire for disassociation from Jerry Falwell solely on who he is as a person isn't the best way to look at him. He's very, very committed to the growth of that University.

I do agree - any University that states it's going to be gone from FCS in 10 years or less would be a risky pick to add to any conference (as far as stablility would go).


PS

I would not invite Liberty because of Falwell either:o :smiley_wi