#2 Illinois State @ #9 South Dakota State (11/7)

[Professor Chaos]

The game of the week in the FCS IMO. There's a lot of storylines in the last game ever to be played at Coughlin Alumni Stadium in Brookings (it'll be renamed next year when the renovation is complete and the teardown starts next week).

Will SDSU and their two QB system have any success?
Will SDSU avenge the absolute beatdown they sustained in Normal at the hands of the Redbirds last year?
Can Illinois St pass their last major test of the year (they finish @SIU and home against USD) and likely lock up home-field throughout the playoffs as a top 2 seed?

The prevailing thought is that SDSU needs to win this game to get a first round bye (and perhaps avoiding yet another 2nd round trip to Fargo) but this game is also big for Illinois St. With everyone outside of these two teams and NDSU beating up on each other Illinois St doesn't have a win against any MVFC teams currently with a winning record. So beating SDSU could really solidify them as a top 2 seed or a loss could send them to the "seed bubble" in a hurry since they'd fall below NDSU in the race for the MVFC autobid (using the tie-breaker and as long as NDSU wins) and they'd have a head-to-head loss to SDSU who'd also be looking good for a seed at that point.

[eiu1999]

I'm hoping ISU pulls this out to make EIU look better. We'll see.

[BisonFan02]

Go bunnies!!!!!!!

[Professor Chaos]

Go bunnies!!!!!!!
Yup, every Bison fan should be on the Jacks bandwagon this weekend.

[RabidRabbit]

Normally, I'd be hoping for a traditionally lousy SD November weather day for such an important game. Jacks have certainly played well in most of the bad weather games. However, bad weather usually supports the stronger running team, and with Roberson and Coprich, that would likely be the Redbirds. Jacks have a lot of good pass targets, and a good enough running game that may be able to grind out a win, but also win a shoot out. IMHO, Jacks D will come through and get some stops, more that Redbird D does. Jacks throw loose chain into seed hopes of Redbirds.

[REALBird]

The game of the week in the FCS IMO. There's a lot of storylines in the last game ever to be played at Coughlin Alumni Stadium in Brookings (it'll be renamed next year when the renovation is complete and the teardown starts next week).

Will SDSU and their two QB system have any success?
Will SDSU avenge the absolute beatdown they sustained in Normal at the hands of the Redbirds last year?
Can Illinois St pass their last major test of the year (they finish @SIU and home against USD) and likely lock up home-field throughout the playoffs as a top 2 seed?

The prevailing thought is that SDSU needs to win this game to get a first round bye (and perhaps avoiding yet another 2nd round trip to Fargo) but this game is also big for Illinois St. With everyone outside of these two teams and NDSU beating up on each other Illinois St doesn't have a win against any MVFC teams currently with a winning record. So beating SDSU could really solidify them as a top 2 seed or a loss could send them to the "seed bubble" in a hurry since they'd fall below NDSU in the race for the MVFC autobid (using the tie-breaker and as long as NDSU wins) and they'd have a head-to-head loss to SDSU who'd also be looking good for a seed at that point.

Doesn't Illinois State have something to do with this fact? It's not our fault other teams are beating up on each other. But to suggest we become a bubble seed when we've been Top #5 all season just for a loss? If that happens, then the paranoia of ISUr fans feeling like we're the Rodney Dangerfield of FCS probably holds some weight.

[Professor Chaos]

Doesn't Illinois State have something to do with this fact? It's not our fault other teams are beating up on each other. But to suggest we become a bubble seed when we've been Top #5 all season just for a loss? If that happens, then the paranoia of ISUr fans feeling like we're the Rodney Dangerfield of FCS probably holds some weight.
You're preaching to the choir my boy. I'm just trying to look at it from an MVFC outsider's perspective. ISU could go from #1 to #3 in the MVFC pecking order with one loss to SDSU. Do you think the selection committee would be willing to give the MVFC 3 seeds? If ISU, SDSU, and NDSU all end up 9-2 I'd say they should but I don't have a ton of confidence that they will do as they should and in that scenario and I think Illinois St would be the 3rd team in danger of missing out on a seed.

It's not completely crazy to think that there will only be 3 playoff teams from the MVFC if the top 3 all finish 9-2 since the only team still alive who won't see any of the top 3 is UNI and Indiana St (who play each other this weekend) and they're all one loss away from likely elimination. If ISUr goes in at 9-2 without a win over any other teams in the field (unless EIU can make it in) I think the committee has a built-in excuse to screw them out of a seed. I'm not saying it will happen I'm just trying to say this game is very big for Illinois St as well since they can take any doubt out of it with a win.

[tomq04]

Where will SDSU host if they are a home team in the playoffs?

[Mayville Bison]

Doesn't Illinois State have something to do with this fact? It's not our fault other teams are beating up on each other. But to suggest we become a bubble seed when we've been Top #5 all season just for a loss? If that happens, then the paranoia of ISUr fans feeling like we're the Rodney Dangerfield of FCS probably holds some weight.

There's only 3 teams in the MVFC that have winning records right now. You are one of them, you don't play another one, and you play the third one this weekend.

[Professor Chaos]

Where will SDSU host if they are a home team in the playoffs?
What I've heard is Howard Wood Field in Sioux Falls. Sioux Falls is about an hour south of Brookings but is a much more populated area with a ton of SDSU alumni. The field itself is only about 10K in capacity I believe but SDSU fans have packed the Summit League basketball tournament in Sioux Falls over the last few years so they can definitely get a good crowd down there.

[F'N Hawks]

Why can't they play playoff games at home if they already are during the regular season? Construction begin again at a set time?

[Professor Chaos]

Why can't they play playoff games at home if they already are during the regular season? Construction begin again at a set time?
Yeah, apparently they're starting construction immediately next week since they're on the road the last two weeks. I'm guessing they're trying to get some stuff done before the ground freezes so they can make some progress this winter and finish up in time for the season opener next fall.

[NDB]

Doesn't Illinois State have something to do with this fact? It's not our fault other teams are beating up on each other. But to suggest we become a bubble seed when we've been Top #5 all season just for a loss? If that happens, then the paranoia of ISUr fans feeling like we're the Rodney Dangerfield of FCS probably holds some weight.

This. Thank you.

[centennial]

Doesn't Illinois State have something to do with this fact? It's not our fault other teams are beating up on each other. But to suggest we become a bubble seed when we've been Top #5 all season just for a loss? If that happens, then the paranoia of ISUr fans feeling like we're the Rodney Dangerfield of FCS probably holds some weight.
The problem is that they aren't going to rank 3 MVFC teams. If SDSU beats ISUr, you don't have a "good" win in the MVFC, you might be a late seed along with NDSU.

[Kemo]

Why can't they play playoff games at home if they already are during the regular season? Construction begin again at a set time?

Pretty much to keep the construction going so the stadium is ready on time for the home opener against Drake. The west side is far more elaborate than the recently erected east/south sides, so it's going to take more time to get it done.

In terms of playing the regular season games at Coughlin-Alumni but not playoff game(s), it's a pretty logical move to me. Howard Wood can only hold a little over 10,000 people, so for our big regular season home games like NDSU and Hobo Day it just wouldn't do. Now, for a playoff game that is on short notice, has colder weather, and could land on a holiday weekend (if it's a first round game), Howard Field should suffice in terms of capacity. It also could help rejuvenate some interest in the program by alumni and casual fans who reside in Sioux Falls, which could go a long ways in helping sell more tickets next year with the new stadium.

[Kemo]

The problem is that they aren't going to rank 3 MVFC teams. If SDSU beats ISUr, you don't have a "good" win in the MVFC, you might be a late seed along with NDSU.

This is sad but true. I just don't see the committee ranking 3 MVFC teams even if there is strong evidence to support doing so.

[Kemo]

The game of the week in the FCS IMO. There's a lot of storylines in the last game ever to be played at Coughlin Alumni Stadium in Brookings (it'll be renamed next year when the renovation is complete and the teardown starts next week).

Will SDSU and their two QB system have any success?
Will SDSU avenge the absolute beatdown they sustained in Normal at the hands of the Redbirds last year?
Can Illinois St pass their last major test of the year (they finish @SIU and home against USD) and likely lock up home-field throughout the playoffs as a top 2 seed?

The prevailing thought is that SDSU needs to win this game to get a first round bye (and perhaps avoiding yet another 2nd round trip to Fargo) but this game is also big for Illinois St. With everyone outside of these two teams and NDSU beating up on each other Illinois St doesn't have a win against any MVFC teams currently with a winning record. So beating SDSU could really solidify them as a top 2 seed or a loss could send them to the "seed bubble" in a hurry since they'd fall below NDSU in the race for the MVFC autobid (using the tie-breaker and as long as NDSU wins) and they'd have a head-to-head loss to SDSU who'd also be looking good for a seed at that point.

So far this year, if SDSU's O-line can hold their own, the Jackrabbits have won fairly handily. When they don't play well, they have lost.

Beside the obvious "don't turn the ball over 4 times in the first half" like SDSU did last year against the Redbirds, I'm convinced the performance of the Jacks' offensive line will have a large say in the final outcome of the game.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I think the Jacks win a close one at home.

The Jacks defense has been playing really well and I think they will slow down the Redbird offense enough to win.

Jacks 31-28

[REALBird]

The problem is that they aren't going to rank 3 MVFC teams. If SDSU beats ISUr, you don't have a "good" win in the MVFC, you might be a late seed along with NDSU.

If we don't have a good win then what is your loss to UNI? Someone said it best, it can't be a quality win for one team, but a bad win for another team. That goes for WIU, YSU, and ISUb. At that point it's just bias.

[centennial]

If we don't have a good win then what is your loss to UNI? Someone said it best, it can't be a quality win for one team, but a bad win for another team. That goes for WIU, YSU, and ISUb. At that point it's just bias.
We lost to USD. You are correct, we will both have a loss then. However, in that case NDSU becomes the auto, and since SDSU beat you, your team will get dropped. I don't think it's fair..

[Redbird 13]

I think ISUr wins Saturday, but in the case the Redbirds lose, there's no way they fall out of seed range with road losses to a team who has a legitimate chance to reach the College Football Playoff and SDSU.

I don't see us falling behind Eastern Washington, for example.

I also don't understand the talk of SDSU automatically getting a seed with a win. They are a lock for wins at South Dakota and Western? Please.

[IBleedYellow]

Get 'em Bunnies!

[Twentysix]

I'd normally cheer for SDSU in this matchup when there are no implications for NDSU... so....

GO
http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/pics31/640/XN/XNNJGUQCJTLIJTV.20100908142049.jpg

[REALBird]

We lost to USD. You are correct, we will both have a loss then. However, in that case NDSU becomes the auto, and since SDSU beat you, your team will get dropped. I don't think it's fair.

apologies, didn't see the avatar for NDSU (stupid phone screen). In that scenario I understand NDSU getting the seed. But SDSU would still have two MVFC losses. One too a UNI team that is trending upward, the other to you guys. Unless SDSU just curb stomps us, hard to see a W over lowly Kansas erasing crapping the bed at home on Hobo Day, and then losing to UNI.

But it we shall see. I guess the only thing left to do is just keep winning.

Thinking about this some more, I would hate a late season loss but even if we did lose that makes us 4-1 against top 25 teams when we played, vs. SDSU's 3-2. With the final two on the road against teams that have beaten UNI and NDSU at their place. No gimmes here. Dont go locking the Bunnies into a seed just yet!

[BisonTru]

We lost to USD. You are correct, we will both have a loss then. However, in that case NDSU becomes the auto, and since SDSU beat you, your team will get dropped. I don't think it's fair..

FWIW, there is no rule that states the auto gets a seed or even has to be seeded higher than anyone else in their conference.

If SDSU pulls off the win I think all three teams have put themselves into the bubble conversation for the seeds. I could see the committee leaving any of the three off, and I also could see the committee putting all three in. A lot of it depends on what else happens around the nation the following weeks.

Personally, I'd like to see all three seeded 6th, 7th, and 8th.

[Professor Chaos]

apologies, didn't see the avatar for NDSU (stupid phone screen). In that scenario I understand NDSU getting the seed. But SDSU would still have two MVFC losses. One too a UNI team that is trending upward, the other to you guys. Unless SDSU just curb stomps us, hard to see a W over lowly Kansas erasing crapping the bed at home on Hobo Day, and then losing to UNI.

But it we shall see. I guess the only thing left to do is just keep winning.

Thinking about this some more, I would hate a late season loss but even if we did lose that makes us 4-1 against top 25 teams when we played, vs. SDSU's 3-2. With the final two on the road against teams that have beaten UNI and NDSU at their place. No gimmes here. Dont go locking the Bunnies into a seed just yet!
You're forgetting though that the Jacks have an FBS win and a convincing OOC win against SUU that might look really good come Selection Sunday with the way the Thunderbirds are playing. Regardless of how bad KU is the committee sure seems to love FBS wins. I can empathize that not seeding ISUr at 9-2 would be a huge snub but I think that's a real possibility if the Redbirds lose this one and both SDSU and NDSU win out.

ISUr can end any debate though if they win in Brookings this Saturday and they'll be at home until they lose or they get to Frisco.

[RabidRabbit]

apologies, didn't see the avatar for NDSU (stupid phone screen). In that scenario I understand NDSU getting the seed. But SDSU would still have two MVFC losses. One too a UNI team that is trending upward, the other to you guys. Unless SDSU just curb stomps us, hard to see a W over lowly Kansas erasing crapping the bed at home on Hobo Day, and then losing to UNI.

But it we shall see. I guess the only thing left to do is just keep winning.

Thinking about this some more, I would hate a late season loss but even if we did lose that makes us 4-1 against top 25 teams when we played, vs. SDSU's 3-2. With the final two on the road against teams that have beaten UNI and NDSU at their place. No gimmes here. Dont go locking the Bunnies into a seed just yet!

Kansas is a P5 school. Lousy at football, yep. Actually it's the surprising beat down of what may be the Big Sky Auto-bid winner, Southern Utah, that has the Jacks higher. Maybe, SUU tanks this next couple of weeks, and doesn't make play-offs. But they are currently undefeated in BSC play, and lost to FBS Utah St. and Jacks. ISU-r comparable is EIU. Even if EIU upends JSU, it doesn't help that they went 0-3 OOC, with the 2 MVFC losses. So relative to the play-off field, Jacks would be either 2-1 or 2-2 (depends on if UNI makes it). ISU-r has UNI win, didn't play NDSU, and would be either 0-0 or 1-0 relative to play-off field.

So yes, if Jacks get the win out, and ISU-r wins out all but Jacks, ISU-r would likely be #3 in seeding out of MVFC. Lots of other conferences could go bonkers, and create opportunity for all three to be seeded, but lots of AGS left.

ISU-r wins in Brookings, not likely to be a seeded Jacks. ISU-r punches in a top 2 seed.

[NDSUtk]

Personally, if NDSU and ISUr both end 9-2, (and ISUr's loss is SDSU) I would put ISUr over NDSU. Folks are saying ISUr wouldn't have beaten anyone, and NDSU can claim to have beaten SDSU but that's about it for quality wins. NDSU's big sky wins are against middle of pack teams...unless UND wins out, then it may be a good win over a playoff team.

So to me you look at the quality of losses - ISUr against an Iowa team who is Top 11 FBS program and against SDSU who is a playoff FCS team. NDSU's losses are against Montana which is hard to judge due to injury and falling from there..and then the abysmal loss to USD at home.

Based on crappiness of losses, I'd give the nod to ISUr over us if one had to be left out of the seed discussion.

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[centennial]

Personally, if NDSU and ISUr both end 9-2, (and ISUr's loss is SDSU) I would put ISUr over NDSU. Folks are saying ISUr wouldn't have beaten anyone, and NDSU can claim to have beaten SDSU but that's about it for quality wins. NDSU's big sky wins are against middle of pack teams...unless UND wins out, then it may be a good win over a playoff team.

So to me you look at the quality of losses - ISUr against an Iowa team who is Top 11 FBS program and against SDSU who is a playoff FCS team. NDSU's losses are against Montana which is hard to judge due to injury and falling from there..and then the abysmal loss to USD at home.

Based on crappiness of losses, I'd give the nod to ISUr over us if one had to be left out of the seed discussion.

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I would agree with this. However, that is not the selections work, winning in November counts for a lot, ask YSU.

[F'N Hawks]

Jacks open as 3 point faves.

[mmiller_34]

Will SDSU and their two QB system have any success? no
Will SDSU avenge the absolute beatdown they sustained in Normal at the hands of the Redbirds last year? no
Can Illinois St pass their last major test of the year (they finish @SIU and home against USD) and likely lock up home-field throughout the playoffs as a top 2 seed?

yes


SDSU has proven that we can't win the big game. The team that will enter the field on Saturday for SDSU will not look like the team that has won 6 games. Call me sandbagging, but I have no confidence in this team to win a big game. In fact, if they lose this week I feel we'll also lose to USD and miss the playoffs.

[Jackal]

SDSU has proven that we can't win the big game. The team that will enter the field on Saturday for SDSU will not look like the team that has won 6 games. Call me sandbagging, but I have no confidence in this team to win a big game. In fact, if they lose this week I feel we'll also lose to USD and miss the playoffs.
debbie downer/gif

[Professor Chaos]

Personally, if NDSU and ISUr both end 9-2, (and ISUr's loss is SDSU) I would put ISUr over NDSU. Folks are saying ISUr wouldn't have beaten anyone, and NDSU can claim to have beaten SDSU but that's about it for quality wins. NDSU's big sky wins are against middle of pack teams...unless UND wins out, then it may be a good win over a playoff team.

So to me you look at the quality of losses - ISUr against an Iowa team who is Top 11 FBS program and against SDSU who is a playoff FCS team. NDSU's losses are against Montana which is hard to judge due to injury and falling from there..and then the abysmal loss to USD at home.

Based on crappiness of losses, I'd give the nod to ISUr over us if one had to be left out of the seed discussion.

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NDSU likely gets the MVFC autobid if ISUr loses to SDSU and both NDSU and ISUr finish 7-1 in conference by virtue of the fact that SDSU, who the Redbirds would've lost to, will very likely finish higher in the MVFC standings than USD, who the Bison lost to. The committee has said in the past that they will generally favor the autobid in a league with co-champs when it comes to seeding.

If the Bison lose again they're out of the seeds completely I'd think unless the last 3 weeks are complete pandemonium in the top 10.

[clenz]

FWIW, there is no rule that states the auto gets a seed or even has to be seeded higher than anyone else in their conference.

If SDSU pulls off the win I think all three teams have put themselves into the bubble conversation for the seeds. I could see the committee leaving any of the three off, and I also could see the committee putting all three in. A lot of it depends on what else happens around the nation the following weeks.

Personally, I'd like to see all three seeded 6th, 7th, and 8th.

UNI and SIU tied for the title in 08 SIU got the auto but UNI got the seed


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[Bisonwinagn]

Go Jacks. I think all three get seeds if they win out. Multiple top 10 teams will still lose a game.

[Professor Chaos]

UNI and SIU tied for the title in 08 SIU got the auto but UNI got the seed


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Well that's because UNI always gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the eyes of the playoff selection committee :D

[clenz]

Well that's because UNI always gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the eyes of the playoff selection committee :D

Yeah. That one at-large where we didn't share the conference title. Always getting the breaks


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[AmsterBison]

Meh to all this talk about what happens if ISU-R loses to SDSU.

NDSU has to beat WIU, Youngstown State, and Missouri State for that to be relevant.

NDSU has never beaten WIU at the FargoDome.

[Bisonator]

I hope SDSU wins but I have my doubts. They didn't matchup well at the LOS against NDSU or UNI and probably more of the same versus ISU.

[CappinHard]

Jacks open as 3 point faves.

I was surprised that we opened as favorites. The line has quickly moved to a pick em though, which I think is about right considering it's in Brookings.

[Hammerhead]

I don't suppose SDSU would want to have a playoff game moved to the Dakotadome in Vermillion where USD plays? :)

[deez_na]

Go Jacks!!!

[Redbird 13]

Aaron Bailey ran for a buck 70 against SDSU.

That bodes well.

[centennial]

Meh to all this talk about what happens if ISU-R loses to SDSU.

NDSU has to beat WIU, Youngstown State, and Missouri State for that to be relevant.

NDSU has never beaten WIU at the FargoDome.
Last time we played them in the FargoDome was 2010.

[Kemo]

Aaron Bailey ran for a buck 70 against SDSU.

That bodes well.
And with all those rushing yards he only managed 10 points for the game.

SDSU's defense has been playing great in the most important statistical category, which is scoring defense. The run defense numbers are a little skewed because the Jacks are susceptible to the 20+ run (lots of times by the QB) a few times a game, but they are just as likely (if not more likely) to drop a running play for a loss or no-gain. That puts the opposing offense in passing downs, where the SDSU secondary takes over and has been very good (not giving up more than 200 yards in a game this year). Hence, even if they give up some decent chunks of yardage from time to time, they are very good at stalling drives as well.

As I've said, I'd be surprised if this game comes down to anything else besides who wins the match up between the Jacks O-line and the Redbirds D line. NDSU and UNI are very strong in their front 4 (and front 7 as well), and those are the types of teams that SDSU has struggled with. I'm not sure if the Redbirds stack up to those two teams in that category, but if they do, ISU will more than likely walk out of Brookings with a victory. If not, then advantage Jackrabbits.

[ST_Lawson]

Last time we played them in the FargoDome was 2010.

Right.

1. Yes, it's kinda crazy that the visiting team has won every matchup between our two schools...that being said, it's only been 6 matchups, of which NDSU has won 4 (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/active/w/western_illinois/opponents_records.php?teamid=2292). We got lucky on the off-year rotation and didn't have to play NDSU during championship seasons #2 and #3.

2. The two years that we beat NDSU were:
2008 - when an eventual 6-5 Western Illinois was playing at an eventual (and uncharacteristically "mediocre" for them) 6-5 NDSU: http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=282852449
2010 - the last time NDSU lost more than 1 game in a season...they did end up 9-5 and 3 rounds into the playoffs, but that was also the last year that we were actually good, finishing 8-5, making it to the second round of the playoffs, and having both the Payton and Buchanan award runner-ups for that year: http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=302752449

3. all players (and most of the coaches) from either of those teams are long gone and historical success means nothing. There's a very good chance that NDSU will not be winless at home against Western by the end of this weekend...but NDSU has looked more vulnerable this year, and we're somewhat better than we have been in the past few years...and we did nearly win the game at home last year, so Western does have a chance, but I think the advantage is still NDSU's.

[thebootfitter]

Go Jacks. I think all three get seeds if they win out. Multiple top 10 teams will still lose a game.
I'm slightly confused... It is impossible for ISUr, SDSU, and NDSU to all win out, since ISUr and SDSU play each other. Did I miss something?

[thebootfitter]

Personally, if NDSU and ISUr both end 9-2, (and ISUr's loss is SDSU) I would put ISUr over NDSU. Folks are saying ISUr wouldn't have beaten anyone, and NDSU can claim to have beaten SDSU but that's about it for quality wins. NDSU's big sky wins are against middle of pack teams...unless UND wins out, then it may be a good win over a playoff team.

So to me you look at the quality of losses - ISUr against an Iowa team who is Top 11 FBS program and against SDSU who is a playoff FCS team. NDSU's losses are against Montana which is hard to judge due to injury and falling from there..and then the abysmal loss to USD at home.

Based on crappiness of losses, I'd give the nod to ISUr over us if one had to be left out of the seed discussion.
Makes sense. But fair or not, there is likely some element of $$$ involved in the decision making process for seeds too. NDSU probably has an edge to get a seed because they will sell out the dome.

[Thumper 76]

And with all those rushing yards he only managed 10 points for the game.

SDSU's defense has been playing great in the most important statistical category, which is scoring defense. The run defense numbers are a little skewed because the Jacks are susceptible to the 20+ run (lots of times by the QB) a few times a game, but they are just as likely (if not more likely) to drop a running play for a loss or no-gain. That puts the opposing offense in passing downs, where the SDSU secondary takes over and has been very good (not giving up more than 200 yards in a game this year). Hence, even if they give up some decent chunks of yardage from time to time, they are very good at stalling drives as well.

As I've said, I'd be surprised if this game comes down to anything else besides who wins the match up between the Jacks O-line and the Redbirds D line. NDSU and UNI are very strong in their front 4 (and front 7 as well), and those are the types of teams that SDSU has struggled with. I'm not sure if the Redbirds stack up to those two teams in that category, but if they do, ISU will more than likely walk out of Brookings with a victory. If not, then advantage Jackrabbits.

This is the correct analysis.

[jacksfan29]

I don't suppose SDSU would want to have a playoff game moved to the Dakotadome in Vermillion where USD plays? :)

We play football outdoors, like it was meant to be playedxthumbsupx. Plus, be honest with yourself; would you move a game into that Dome if you had to? Makes that place the NoDaks play in look good.

[UNIFanSince1983]

We play football outdoors, like it was meant to be playedxthumbsupx. Plus, be honest with yourself; would you move a game into that Dome if you had to? Makes that place the NoDaks play in look good.

But it may be the only time the DakotaDome would get a playoff game in it...

[clenz]

But it may be the only time the DakotaDome would get a playoff game in it...
Not true.

The state of Iowa played some high school playoff games in the dome in the mid/late 90s due to massive snow/ice storms that made playing outdoors impossible for the NW corner of the state. I remember going and watching my HS play there.

[ISUMatt]

If the Jacks are susceptible to 20+ yard runs, particularly by the QB, then it may be a long afternoon. It's no easy task stopping both Coprich and Tre. Both have busted long TD runs early and often!


ISUMatt

[Kemo]

If the Jacks are susceptible to 20+ yard runs, particularly by the QB, then it may be a long afternoon. It's no easy task stopping both Coprich and Tre. Both have busted long TD runs early and often!


ISUMatt

I did state it happens a "few" times a game, so I wouldn't get the impression that it's going to be an easy thing to come by, either. Just seems like the Jacks D does like to throw in a defensive breakdown/missed tackle every once in a while with their otherwise stellar defensive performance.

What will factor in for ISU-Red making it a "long day" for SDSU is how timely and how big those runs go when SDSU has a defensive breakdown. If the Redbirds get a 25 yard run from their own 20 and then the drive stalls, it looks nice on the stat sheet but doesn't affect the scoreboard. If the Birds take a few of their runs "barnyard" then there is no doubt it could greatly increase ISU-Red's chance of winning.

[jacksfan29]

If the Jacks are susceptible to 20+ yard runs, particularly by the QB, then it may be a long afternoon. It's no easy task stopping both Coprich and Tre. Both have busted long TD runs early and often!


ISUMatt

Tre is averaging around 45 per game running. Coprich will be tough to stop, I expect him to get over 100. We have been known to give up a long run, we bend; we don't break.

Offensively? Your defense seem to be most susceptible to the pass based on season stats. I like that, your front seven are not at the level of NDSU or UNI so I'm pretty sure we will be able to throw the ball. Should be fun.

[jacksfan29]

I remember that. Did you go to school in Sioux City? I seem to remember at least one SC school were involved.


Not true.

The state of Iowa played some high school playoff games in the dome in the mid/late 90s due to massive snow/ice storms that made playing outdoors impossible for the NW corner of the state. I remember going and watching my HS play there.

[clenz]

I remember that. Did you go to school in Sioux City? I seem to remember at least one SC school were involved.

I did not. My football program was Central Lyon/George-Little Rock

[ISUMatt]

1st half vs Indy St we stayed in our base D way too much and way too long and got burned in the 2nd quarter. We adjusted at halftime and did the job. Defensive front was missing Teddy Corwin for 4-5 games and he is just hitting his stride. Perkins has had several nice games in a row as well


ISUMatt

[Bisonwinagn]

I'm slightly confused... It is impossible for ISUr, SDSU, and NDSU to all win out, since ISUr and SDSU play each other. Did I miss something?

I meant if the Jacks win over red then all win out. It's a mute point if SDSU doesn't win this week.

[Redbird 13]

Tre is averaging around 45 per game running. Coprich will be tough to stop, I expect him to get over 100. We have been known to give up a long run, we bend; we don't break.

Offensively? Your defense seem to be most susceptible to the pass based on season stats. I like that, your front seven are not at the level of NDSU or UNI so I'm pretty sure we will be able to throw the ball. Should be fun.

Problem is, our best defensive lineman has returned from injury after missing five games. Keep thinking the defensive line is a weakness. That's hilarious.

[REALBird]

You guys have a tendency to turn it over or downs or miss FG's as well look no further than your 24-7 W over the Trees at home. You FR QB tends to account for your entire running game, as looks to be your best passer. So really the same holds true for SDSU. Christion puts up good numbers, but do the drives result in points on the board.

This may come down to FG kickers, you guys confident your guy can put it through the big tuning fork? He missed a couple vs. Indiana State.

[jacksfan29]

No one said it was your weakness, but whether you believe it or not; your front seven are not as physical as either NDSU or UNI.

ISUr fans really do have an inferiority complex. Odd bunch.


Problem is, our best defensive lineman has returned from injury after missing five games. Keep thinking the defensive line is a weakness. That's hilarious.

[clenz]

No one said it was your weakness, but whether you believe it or not; your front seven are not as physical as either NDSU or UNI.

ISUr fans really do have an inferiority complex. Odd bunch.
This is a true statement

Teddy is a great DE. Front 7 to front 7 and the physicality of it isn't close between UNI/NDSU and anyone else

[jacksfan29]

Actually our best passer is our Junior QB, the one who got hurt against NDSU who is now starting again. To stop him you need to put pressure on him. Our true Freshman QB, a very talented kid is splitting time and yep, he can run and throw the ball. We have two backs who have had big games this year. Our running game has been on and off, Christon (FR QB)( has helped it out. Our kicker? He has had good games, he has had bad games. We aren't use to that. We normally have great kickers. He did earn Valley special team honors last week, he needs to get his confidence back. Hopefully it is back.

You may want to review our stats:

http://www.gojacks.com/fls/15000/stats/2015_FB/teamcume.htm


You guys have a tendency to turn it over or downs or miss FG's as well look no further than your 24-7 W over the Trees at home. You FR QB tends to account for your entire running game, as looks to be your best passer. So really the same holds true for SDSU. Christion puts up good numbers, but do the drives result in points on the board.

This may come down to FG kickers, you guys confident your guy can put it through the big tuning fork? He missed a couple vs. Indiana State.

[Redbird 13]

Why do fans on this website insist on bashing the Illinois State program and its fans? It's a common occurrence and quite pathetic. Seems to me, the inferiority complex lies elsewhere. Is everyone else threatened by the recent success and long term potential of this program? And why do many bash the program here and then come to Redbirdfan and kiss ass.

I've never seen a first-place team, this late in the season, dissected to the bare bones like this one. If NDSU and ISU flipped spots in the standings right now, everyone in America would be crowning their asses. Hell, some still are! You'd think we were 2-6, 1-4. Bad front seven, lousy wide receivers, lack of physicality, unimpressive wins, a quarterback who isn't as dangerous as others because he only averages 40 yards per game, etc. and so on. Smoke and mirrors, I guess. Maybe we will get lucky again this Saturday.

[JimmyJack]

I tend to agree with Redbird 13. ISU is the #1 team in my eyes and has earned respect. They took NDSU to the wire last year and have won the games they're supposed to win this year. It will take a great effort for SDSU to win this one. The Jacks need to contain Roberson and force him to pass. SDSU's running game has got to pick up some yards. And the coaches need to go with whichever QB is hot.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Why do fans on this website insist on bashing the Illinois State program and its fans? It's a common occurrence and quite pathetic. Seems to me, the inferiority complex lies elsewhere. Is everyone else threatened by the recent success and long term potential of this program? And why do many bash the program here and then come to Redbirdfan and kiss ass.

I've never seen a first-place team, this late in the season, dissected to the bare bones like this one. If NDSU and ISU flipped spots in the standings right now, everyone in America would be crowning their asses. Hell, some still are! You'd think we were 2-6, 1-4. Bad front seven, lousy wide receivers, lack of physicality, unimpressive wins, a quarterback who isn't as dangerous as others because he only averages 40 yards per game, etc. and so on. Smoke and mirrors, I guess. Maybe we will get lucky again this Saturday.

See this is why we think you have the inferiority complex. You claim that everyone on here is bashing you team. We are simply pointing out flaws that we have seen. You mean to tell me you guys have looked as dominant this year as NDSU has in the past? Have you guys even looked as dominant this year as you did last year?

I honestly think ISUr will beat SDSU this weekend. I do think some of what is being pointed out is fair, but I think ISUr offense will be too much for the SDSU defense. I don't think ISUr is as good up front as UNI or NDSU is this year, but they are still very stout and better than any other team SDSU has played this year outside of UNI and NDSU. ISUr has a much better offense then UNI did so that is where they get the advantage. They like to point out a bend but don't break defense, but that didn't pan out against NDSU. It did against a very inept UNI offense.

[ST_Lawson]

See this is why we think you have the inferiority complex. You claim that everyone on here is bashing you team. We are simply pointing out flaws that we have seen. You mean to tell me you guys have looked as dominant this year as NDSU has in the past? Have you guys even looked as dominant this year as you did last year?

I can't speak for how they've played against other teams, but against Western last year vs this year (having seen both games in person), ISUr does look more dominant this year. Sure, there are places that good teams might be able to exploit at times...we were able to get 332 yards through the air on them, but points-wise, weren't able to keep up with them in the track meet they turned it into. Their defense was very strong against the run...they were the first team to hold Nikko Watson to under 100 yards (only got 53 that game). And whereas last year we got up on them by quite a bit early and then they were able to come on strong at the end and beat us by a few points, this year it started off back and forth, with us only having the lead once, in the 3rd quarter, for just under 2 minutes...and when they came on strong at the end again...that's when they blew it open, eventually winning by 20. And we are a better team this year than we were last year.

So, yea, from my perspective, ISUr is a better team than they were last year.

[CappinHard]

Why do fans on this website insist on bashing the Illinois State program and its fans? It's a common occurrence and quite pathetic. Seems to me, the inferiority complex lies elsewhere. Is everyone else threatened by the recent success and long term potential of this program? And why do many bash the program here and then come to Redbirdfan and kiss ass.

It's all because of whiny posts like this one and getting ultra defensive any time someone points out a possible weakness in your team.


I've never seen a first-place team, this late in the season, dissected to the bare bones like this one. If NDSU and ISU flipped spots in the standings right now, everyone in America would be crowning their asses. Hell, some still are! You'd think we were 2-6, 1-4. Bad front seven, lousy wide receivers, lack of physicality, unimpressive wins, a quarterback who isn't as dangerous as others because he only averages 40 yards per game, etc. and so on. Smoke and mirrors, I guess. Maybe we will get lucky again this Saturday.

I think you aren't getting respect like NDSU has in the past because your wins, while still wins, haven't been exactly convincing. Both YSU and ISUb took you to the wire. SDSU handled both of those teams easily. I know, the MVFC has shown that the travsitive property is nowhere near valid, but when you have comparisons like that, they're hard to ignore. Also, Vegas doesn't think you're world beaters either, considering you opened as 3 point underdogs against SDSU this weekend. Since then, it's moved to a pick em, and fwiw I think you guys should be favored. So blame vegas, not us. :D

[REALBird]

I can't speak for how they've played against other teams, but against Western last year vs this year (having seen both games in person), ISUr does look more dominant this year. Sure, there are places that good teams might be able to exploit at times...we were able to get 332 yards through the air on them, but points-wise, weren't able to keep up with them in the track meet they turned it into. Their defense was very strong against the run...they were the first team to hold Nikko Watson to under 100 yards (only got 53 that game). And whereas last year we got up on them by quite a bit early and then they were able to come on strong at the end and beat us by a few points, this year it started off back and forth, with us only having the lead once, in the 3rd quarter, for just under 2 minutes...and when they came on strong at the end again...that's when they blew it open, eventually winning by 20. And we are a better team this year than we were last year.

So, yea, from my perspective, ISUr is a better team than they were last year.

We weren't really DOMINANT last year. Good teams learn how to win, even when they're not playing their best, even when you are playing from behind. My appreciation for NDSU has grown because they've played some close games over the past year, and just when you think they're done......they find a friggin way.

Same thing with the Championship game last year. I knew 1:38 was a lot of time against a veteran team like NDSU. I give them all the credit in the world for making a great comeback to win the championship. As an ISU fan, the better team won. No inferiority complex.

The SDSU game in Normal, the UNI playoff game in Normal, the EWU playoff game are the only games where I felt ISU played their A game start to finish. But against UNH. When their starting receiver went down, it shifted the tide. Sometimes it pays to be lucky or have the tide shift in your favor.

We've simply found a way to win. Pretty or not, that's what good teams do. Find a way! The "inferiority complex" is largely a result of people criticizing the looks of the win and thinking we should be dominant. I think the voting preferences has shown, few in anyone believes there is a "dominant" team in FCS this year. We can't blame injuries, everyone has them. We get criticized for the MVFC scheduling of not playing NDSU. EIU was a bad win for us, yet good for WIU. We beat 4 ranked conference foes, yet we haven't beat anyone with a winning record says some.

FWIW....after last weeks rainy victory over the Trees, I have no issue with Jacksonville State being #1 after trouncing EKU. But I also realize in the minds of the AGS pollsters, Coaches, STATS we have probably the smallest margin of error if we lose a game. The name Illinois State hasn't EARNED that level of respect nationally. But we're trying!!!! Give us some credit for at least doing what we're supposed to do.

[jacksfan29]

You win. I'll call Stig quick and ask him to call off the game. We could use the extra time to get the stadium work completed. I've heard USD and SIU are thinking about doing the same. Call the season early, get some practice time in and prepare for 2016.

Nothing else will be said about ISUr or any issues they may have. Your team has no weakness nor any flaws. In fact, ISUr may be the most dominant team I have seen play in FCS since... well since forever.

You need to get a grip. We are worried and threatened by your recent success and long term potential? OK xeyebrowx

We shall see what happens Saturday. We may get blown out by your awesomeness. One thing I know for sure, I'm not exactly sure which offense of ours will show up. But of course it won't matter. We are DOOMED... DOOMED I SAY!!!!


Why do fans on this website insist on bashing the Illinois State program and its fans? It's a common occurrence and quite pathetic. Seems to me, the inferiority complex lies elsewhere. Is everyone else threatened by the recent success and long term potential of this program? And why do many bash the program here and then come to Redbirdfan and kiss ass.

I've never seen a first-place team, this late in the season, dissected to the bare bones like this one. If NDSU and ISU flipped spots in the standings right now, everyone in America would be crowning their asses. Hell, some still are! You'd think we were 2-6, 1-4. Bad front seven, lousy wide receivers, lack of physicality, unimpressive wins, a quarterback who isn't as dangerous as others because he only averages 40 yards per game, etc. and so on. Smoke and mirrors, I guess. Maybe we will get lucky again this Saturday.

[Thumper 76]

Why do fans on this website insist on bashing the Illinois State program and its fans? It's a common occurrence and quite pathetic. Seems to me, the inferiority complex lies elsewhere. Is everyone else threatened by the recent success and long term potential of this program? And why do many bash the program here and then come to Redbirdfan and kiss ass.


Is that directed at me? Cause I did post on your board, but I haven't ONCE bashed your program. I'm generally on good behavior on the opponents board considering its your house and all. Sorry I'm not sorry. I made a small comment in a game thread last week. God dang, some of you guys I tell Ya.

[Bisonator]

We weren't really DOMINANT last year. Good teams learn how to win, even when they're not playing their best, even when you are playing from behind. My appreciation for NDSU has grown because they've played some close games over the past year, and just when you think they're done......they find a friggin way.

Same thing with the Championship game last year. I knew 1:38 was a lot of time against a veteran team like NDSU. I give them all the credit in the world for making a great comeback to win the championship. As an ISU fan, the better team won. No inferiority complex.

The SDSU game in Normal, the UNI playoff game in Normal, the EWU playoff game are the only games where I felt ISU played their A game start to finish. But against UNH. When their starting receiver went down, it shifted the tide. Sometimes it pays to be lucky or have the tide shift in your favor.

We've simply found a way to win. Pretty or not, that's what good teams do. Find a way! The "inferiority complex" is largely a result of people criticizing the looks of the win and thinking we should be dominant. I think the voting preferences has shown, few in anyone believes there is a "dominant" team in FCS this year. We can't blame injuries, everyone has them. We get criticized for the MVFC scheduling of not playing NDSU. EIU was a bad win for us, yet good for WIU. We beat 4 ranked conference foes, yet we haven't beat anyone with a winning record says some.

FWIW....after last weeks rainy victory over the Trees, I have no issue with Jacksonville State being #1 after trouncing EKU. But I also realize in the minds of the AGS pollsters, Coaches, STATS we have probably the smallest margin of error if we lose a game. The name Illinois State hasn't EARNED that level of respect nationally. But we're trying!!!! Give us some credit for at least doing what we're supposed to do.

If I voted in any poll ISUr would be #1. This post pretty much sums it up. You've been tested by a pretty dang good Iowa team and the top conference in FCS. Just win baby they don't give style points.

[Redbirdgrad]

Are you kidding me right now? What am I reading?!? This thread is a joke...

Illinois State's front 7 might not be as physical as those other 2 teams, and that's fine. They don't have to be. But they are an asset, and will be a chore for SDSU all day. We don't need to be better than other front 7's, we just have to be better than the 5-7 blockers from SDSU that are in front of them. Let's end that argument right there. Who cares who's better. A defensive front 7 will never go up against another defensive front 7. Stop bickering about pointless stuff. I believe the ISU front 7 to be better than the SDSU line, as the ISU front 7 are healthier now than they've been all year and have a couple mad men coming off the ends. And please don't try to run, it wont suit you well.

SDSU has a good team. Probably top 15 in the country.
ISU has a better team. Probably top 3 in the country.

ISU should win this game. But this is the Valley, and this is the 5th ranked game we've played this year. And we're on the road. Anything can happen. THAT is why this is a pick'em right now in Vegas. Did you see how quickly the money came in on ISU AND the points? The sharps knew that was a crazy line and jumped.

Play this game 10 times at SDSU and ISU probably wins 5 of the 10.
Play this game 10 times at Hanock and ISU wins 8 of the 10.

Stop bickering about pointless stuff.

[CappinHard]

Did you see how quickly the money came in on ISU AND the points? The sharps knew that was a crazy line and jumped.

FYI, It doesn't take much to move the initial line posted on 5dimes. A few $100 bets will do it, and don't kid yourself, 'sharps' probably aren't doing too much betting on FCS football.

[Bisonator]

Are you kidding me right now? What am I reading?!? This thread is a joke...

Illinois State's front 7 might not be as physical as those other 2 teams, and that's fine. They don't have to be. But they are an asset, and will be a chore for SDSU all day. We don't need to be better than other front 7's, we just have to be better than the 5-7 blockers from SDSU that are in front of them. Let's end that argument right there. Who cares who's better. A defensive front 7 will never go up against another defensive front 7. Stop bickering about pointless stuff. I believe the ISU front 7 to be better than the SDSU line, as the ISU front 7 are healthier now than they've been all year and have a couple mad men coming off the ends. And please don't try to run, it wont suit you well.

SDSU has a good team. Probably top 15 in the country.
ISU has a better team. Probably top 3 in the country.

ISU should win this game. But this is the Valley, and this is the 5th ranked game we've played this year. And we're on the road. Anything can happen. THAT is why this is a pick'em right now in Vegas. Did you see how quickly the money came in on ISU AND the points? The sharps knew that was a crazy line and jumped.

Play this game 10 times at SDSU and ISU probably wins 5 of the 10.
Play this game 10 times at Hanock and ISU wins 8 of the 10.

Stop bickering about pointless stuff.

WTF else would we do here???xlolx

Seriously some of you redbird fans need to relax.xeyebrowx

[Redbirdgrad]

Seriously some of you redbird fans need to relax.xeyebrowx

That's precisely what I'm saying to EVERYONE. It's a football game played by two of the best teams in the best conference in FCS. It'll be a good one too. Relax and enjoy the football!

[eiu1999]

It's fun reading all of this but let's get on with the game already. ISU by 4.

[Bison56]

Why do fans on this website insist on bashing the Illinois State program and its fans? It's a common occurrence and quite pathetic. Seems to me, the inferiority complex lies elsewhere. Is everyone else threatened by the recent success and long term potential of this program? And why do many bash the program here and then come to Redbirdfan and kiss ass.

I've never seen a first-place team, this late in the season, dissected to the bare bones like this one. If NDSU and ISU flipped spots in the standings right now, everyone in America would be crowning their asses. Hell, some still are! You'd think we were 2-6, 1-4. Bad front seven, lousy wide receivers, lack of physicality, unimpressive wins, a quarterback who isn't as dangerous as others because he only averages 40 yards per game, etc. and so on. Smoke and mirrors, I guess. Maybe we will get lucky again this Saturday.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21667&stc=1

[RollBirds]

Distance to Casey's General store

ILSTU 1.3mi
SDSU 2.1mi

I think these numbers speak for themselves....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jacksfan29]

Are you kidding me right now? What am I reading?!? This thread is a joke...



Why is it a joke? Someone questioned a part of the ISUr game and didn't label it THE BEST EVER?

After this thread, I really do appreciate the UNI and NDSU fans. ISUr fans are a bit touchy. Maybe a few need to get in touch with a certain member of your FB team and "chillax" dude.

[centennial]

Why is it a joke? Someone questioned a part of the ISUr game and didn't label it THE BEST EVER?

After this thread, I really do appreciate the UNI and NDSU fans. ISUr fans are a bit touchy. Maybe a few need to get in touch with a certain member of your FB team and "chillax" dude.
They always get butthurt. Personally, I wished NDSU did play them in the regular season so that we can decide it on the field. ISUr fans- You have got to earn your stars, we will all applaud if you become the National Champions.

[clenz]

Why is it a joke? Someone questioned a part of the ISUr game and didn't label it THE BEST EVER?

After this thread, I really do appreciate the UNI and NDSU fans. ISUr fans are a bit touchy. Maybe a few need to get in touch with a certain member of your FB team and "chillax" dude.
It's amazing the number of fan bases that have said the same thing about ISUr, yet it seems like they are shocked by it. Wichita State, Creighton, Drake, Evansville, Northern Iowa, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Youngstown State (rather funny coming from them though), Illinois, Iowa, etc...

If that many schools fan bases feel that way...then...well...

[REALBird]

They always get butthurt. Personally, I wished NDSU did play them in the regular season so that we can decide it on the field. ISUr fans- You have got to earn your stars, we will all applaud if you become the National Champions.

SDSU first. Then a whole lot of football. Anyone thinking we have a predetermined ticket punched to Frisco is crazy.

But I will ask a legit question. Aside from what is considered the dire extremist of our fanbase by many (OSBF and 4thandShort) have there been others who have come on here that have just painted this image of the "typical" ISU fan? I see lots of accusations about "They" in one breath, and then in another thread people are asking where are we, or that you can't find any "ISUr fans". These statements seem to contradict themselves.

Or is it possible the "perception" of ISUr fans is from a small sample that gets generalized because people like yourself and a few other continue to paint that picture? Those with first hand experience should have their opinions. I'm sure most UNI fans do, some NDSU fans from last year. Anyone in the Old Gateway/MVFC.

I can't tell you if I've ever met an SDSU fan or USD fan to know enough about their fanbase. But USD gets crapped on quite a bit for some reason.

Honestly, if we cast the net far and wide for every fanbase based on the Internet, we may as well blow this big blue rock up and start all over again. LOL.

[REALBird]

It's amazing the number of fan bases that have said the same thing about ISUr, yet it seems like they are shocked by it. Wichita State, Creighton, Drake, Evansville, Northern Iowa, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Youngstown State (rather funny coming from them though), Illinois, Iowa, etc...

If that many schools fan bases feel that way...then...well...

So it's ok to stereotype based on the opinions of others. You don't judge for yourself? Sounds atypical of society. Do you have a personal experience? Just curious.

[BisonTru]

Umm.....



But I will ask a legit question. Aside from what is considered the dire extremist of our fanbase by many (OSBF and 4thandShort) have there been others who have come on here that have just painted this image of the "typical" ISU fan? .


Why do fans on this website insist on bashing the Illinois State program and its fans? It's a common occurrence and quite pathetic. Seems to me, the inferiority complex lies elsewhere.


Are you kidding me right now? What am I reading?!? This thread is a joke...
.

[UNIFanSince1983]

SDSU first. Then a whole lot of football. Anyone thinking we have a predetermined ticket punched to Frisco is crazy.

But I will ask a legit question. Aside from what is considered the dire extremist of our fanbase by many (OSBF and 4thandShort) have there been others who have come on here that have just painted this image of the "typical" ISU fan? I see lots of accusations about "They" in one breath, and then in another thread people are asking where are we, or that you can't find any "ISUr fans". These statements seem to contradict themselves.

Or is it possible the "perception" of ISUr fans is from a small sample that gets generalized because people like yourself and a few other continue to paint that picture? Those with first hand experience should have their opinions. I'm sure most UNI fans do, some NDSU fans from last year. Anyone in the Old Gateway/MVFC.

I can't tell you if I've ever met an SDSU fan or USD fan to know enough about their fanbase. But USD gets crapped on quite a bit for some reason.

Honestly, if we cast the net far and wide for every fanbase based on the Internet, we may as well blow this big blue rock up and start all over again. LOL.

I am sure it is a small minority of Redbird fans although it is the majority of Redbird fans on this site that cry disrespect anytime we say something slightly critical of your team.

Personally, I had a bad experience when traveling to Normal last year. At least at the game. Granted we were on the same side as some pretty liquored up students. However, we were unable to use one of our tickets at the last minute. We attempted to give it away to some ISUr fans and they acted as if we were trying to pull a fast one on them. Saying like "Yeah right we aren't taking that". It was a very peculiar way they acted. We were just trying to give it away not even wanting any money. Then I was in the bathroom and was being harassed by some fan just talking a bunch of crap. I don't remember exactly what he said, but it was crazy. Now I am sure that was a small minority of the ISUr fanbase, but you can see how someone could be tainted after that encounter and how some of you act on here.

[REALBird]

I am sure it is a small minority of Redbird fans although it is the majority of Redbird fans on this site that cry disrespect anytime we say something slightly critical of your team.

Personally, I had a bad experience when traveling to Normal last year. At least at the game. Granted we were on the same side as some pretty liquored up students. However, we were unable to use one of our tickets at the last minute. We attempted to give it away to some ISUr fans and they acted as if we were trying to pull a fast one on them. Saying like "Yeah right we aren't taking that". It was a very peculiar way they acted. We were just trying to give it away not even wanting any money. Then I was in the bathroom and was being harassed by some fan just talking a bunch of crap. I don't remember exactly what he said, but it was crazy. Now I am sure that was a small minority of the ISUr fanbase, but you can see how someone could be tainted after that encounter and how some of you act on here.

Always a few bad apples in the bunch. But then again I try to avoid other teams venues for that reason. As big a fan as I am, some people are just idiots.

I've been to WIU without incident, ISUb, St. Louis brings out the best of the crazies. I typically ignore most kids....they're stupid college kids anyway. Worst experience Creighton fans and Bradley in basketball. Worst fan experience in football came vs. WIU at Hancock. We had a kid get injured and he required medical services to be taken to the hospital. Some jerk on the team was woofing it up as they were mobilizing his neck and strapping him to the board. I finally told him to show some class and respect. Eventually his coaches and teammates settled him down. No indictment on the University, or the rest of WIU. Just one bad apple. But hey....I get it.

I do at least appreciate your reply.

[clenz]

So it's ok to stereotype based on the opinions of others. You don't judge for yourself? Sounds atypical of society. Do you have a personal experience? Just curious.
I've been to a game in Normal, I've been to multiple Arch Madness's, I've met ISU fans in Cedar Falls for basketball/football games. I've spent a lot of time around ISU fans. My interpretation isn't much different than anything I've read here. Do I think the entire fan base is represented by the message board community? No. The issue is, your entire message board community has the same reactions to everything. It'd be one thing if it was a Lakes or chattownmoc situation..but it's pretty much every poster

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - OSBF is the most down to earth, easiest to talk too, and all around "best" Redbird fan I've come across. He is a genuinely great dude.

[Thumper 76]

Distance to Casey's General store

ILSTU 1.3mi
SDSU 2.1mi

I think these numbers speak for themselves....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

See, this is the true stat of the game

[centennial]

SDSU first. Then a whole lot of football. Anyone thinking we have a predetermined ticket punched to Frisco is crazy.

But I will ask a legit question. Aside from what is considered the dire extremist of our fanbase by many (OSBF and 4thandShort) have there been others who have come on here that have just painted this image of the "typical" ISU fan? I see lots of accusations about "They" in one breath, and then in another thread people are asking where are we, or that you can't find any "ISUr fans". These statements seem to contradict themselves.

Or is it possible the "perception" of ISUr fans is from a small sample that gets generalized because people like yourself and a few other continue to paint that picture? Those with first hand experience should have their opinions. I'm sure most UNI fans do, some NDSU fans from last year. Anyone in the Old Gateway/MVFC.

I can't tell you if I've ever met an SDSU fan or USD fan to know enough about their fanbase. But USD gets crapped on quite a bit for some reason.

Honestly, if we cast the net far and wide for every fanbase based on the Internet, we may as well blow this big blue rock up and start all over again. LOL.
What you are saying is generally true. All fan bases have "bad" fans. It is my subjective opinion that ISUr fans take ribbing the wrong way, and start fights. Also for me it is hard to respect a team that relies on transfers, and doesn't discipline it's players. Plus, I don't understand all this hubris, everyone acknowledges your team, however don't forget that Indiana State was 1 dropped catch away from beating you, or that Iowa could have if they wanted scored 60 on your team(your fan base keeps calling the 34-14 score like you are top end FBS team); ISUr is good but not dominant in the MVFC.

[clenz]

What you are saying is generally true. All fan bases have "bad" fans. It is my subjective opinion that ISUr fans take ribbing the wrong way, and start fights. Also for me it is hard to respect a team that relies on transfers, and doesn't discipline it's players. Plus, I don't understand all this hubris, everyone acknowledges your team, however don't forget that Indiana State was 1 dropped catch away from beating you, or that Iowa could have if they wanted scored 60 on your team(your fan base keeps calling the 34-14 score like you are top end FBS team); ISUr is good but not dominant in the MVFC.
It's also only year 2 of being good.

UNI has been a top 2 or 3 MVFC program it's entire existence - 16 conference titles in 30 years. NDSU has 4 straight national titles. SDSU has been a top 15 team since they joined the conference. SIU is on down times right now, but just one recruiting cycle ago they were coming of 5 conference titles in 7 years, or something crazy like that.

[Redbird Recon]

ISUr fans are as touchy as they come. We're also susceptible to drive-by bandwagon fans who have followed Chicago pro sports their entire lives and could care less about learning the subtleties and context of mid-major basketball and FCS football.

EDIT: The fans that have suffered thru the bad years in Normal are the same die-hards you'll find anywhere else. The problem is there just aren't all that many.

[REALBird]

I've been to a game in Normal, I've been to multiple Arch Madness's, I've met ISU fans in Cedar Falls for basketball/football games. I've spent a lot of time around ISU fans. My interpretation isn't much different than anything I've read here.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - OSBF is the most down to earth, easiest to talk too, and all around "best" Redbird fan I've come across. He is a genuinely great dude.

Well, considering he's pretty much the last thing I consider to be an ISU fan. Not much can be said to change your perception of ISU. LOL.

I know he has a major woody for how you guys built your program and a disdain for pretty much anyone in the ISU Athletic Department.

Maybe I'm fortunate enough cross paths one day with some of you to add to the sample size, maybe we won't. But this horse is dead, no sense beating it any further.
Carry On!

[BisonTru]

However, we were unable to use one of our tickets at the last minute. We attempted to give it away to some ISUr fans and they acted as if we were trying to pull a fast one on them. Saying like "Yeah right we aren't taking that". It was a very peculiar way they acted.

This is it, ISU fans seem to have trust issues. Now, I'm not talking all, but an odd amount of them.

A couple days ago, I posted about buying some ISU fans a shot at a bar. They acted all funny, almost like there was a catch. Myself as well as a couple other bison fans, posted on their board when championship tickets got crazy, that you could find plenty of tickets close to game time at reasonable prices. But instantly we were met with skepticism, and that we couldn't be trusted. 4th and short was determined to find some conspiracy that bison fans had some master plan to insure that they couldn't get tickets.

Maybe, there is a ton of scam artist in Normal, IDK.

[clenz]

This is it, ISU fans seem to have trust issues. Now, I'm not talking all, but an odd amount of them.

A couple days ago, I posted about buying some ISU fans a shot at a bar. They acted all funny, almost like there was a catch. Myself as well as a couple other bison fans, posted on their board when championship tickets got crazy, that you could find plenty of tickets close to game time at reasonable prices. But instantly we were met with skepticism, and that we couldn't be trusted. 4th and short was determined to find some conspiracy that bison fans had some master plan to insure that they couldn't get tickets.

Maybe, there is a ton of scam artist in Normal, IDK.
Everyone is a cop...or an informant...

[centennial]

Well, considering he's pretty much the last thing I consider to be an ISU fan. Not much can be said to change your perception of ISU. LOL.

I know he has a major woody for how you guys built your program and a disdain for pretty much anyone in the ISU Athletic Department.

Maybe I'm fortunate enough cross paths one day with some of you to add to the sample size, maybe we won't. But this horse is dead, no sense beating it any further.
Carry On!
You are no one to judge who is a fan. He follows ISUr athletics- he is a fan. Yes, he is critical of how things are run. I am critical of the NDSU OC, or when kids got stealing from Best Buy- Does that not make me a fan anymore?

[Redbird Recon]

Everyone is a cop...or an informant...
Gotta be careful who you sell to! xthumbsupx

[clenz]

I know he has a major woody for how you guys built your program and a disdain for pretty much anyone in the ISU Athletic Department.

Maybe he should.

Look at UNI's track record since 1985 in football.
Look at our record against conference opponents - not a single one is even .500 against UNI.
Look at the number of NFL guys, All Americans, All Conference guys, Conference POY, Academic AA and AC, etc..
Unfortunately there isn't a title there, but the track record is pretty damn good.

Look at how UNI has built their basketball program since 04.
Look what the foundation of it looks like
Look what the foundation of ISU basketball looks like.
You'll find a reason one program has "superior athletes" but very little, re: almost none, sustain post season success - no NCAAs since 97-98. Only 1 conference title in the last 14 years...and it was a shared title.

Every team does it different, but the good ones who sustain all do it about the same way. You'll find NDSU, Montana, UNI, etc... all do it in very, very, similar fashions.

[clenz]

You are no one to judge who is a fan. He follows ISUr athletics- he is a fan. Yes, he is critical of how things are run. I am critical of the NDSU OC, or when kids got stealing from Best Buy- Does that not make me a fan anymore?
This.

He, from an outsiders perspective, has the best perspective as to how/where ISU fits in. Not wearing rose colored glasses doesn't make you not a fan.

I'm more critical about UNI than anyone. Am I not a UNI fan?

[centennial]

Maybe he should.

Look at UNI's track record since 1985 in football.
Look at our record against conference opponents - not a single one is even .500 against UNI.
Unfortunately there isn't a title there, but the track record is pretty damn good.

Look at how UNI has built their basketball program since 04.
Look what the foundation of it looks like
Look what the foundation of ISU basketball looks like.
You'll find a reason one program has "superior athletes" but very little, re: almost none, sustain post season success - no NCAAs since 97-98. Only 1 conference title in the last 14 years...and it was a shared title.

Every team does it different, but the good ones who sustain all do it about the same way. You'll find NDSU, Montana, UNI, etc... all do it in very, very, similar fashions.
I wish NDSU was close to how good UNI is with basketball. I know we've been to the dance 2 years in a row, but we play in a low major conference. Every time we start getting good, our coaches get stolen. Hopefully with the new complex we can become a solid mid-major.

[Redbirdgrad]

You are no one to judge who is a fan. He follows ISUr athletics- he is a fan.

Wait, so you're telling someone else they can't classify people as fans or not, but in the same breath go on and classify the exact same person in that manner? Your point becomes invalid when it begins with hypocracy.

[centennial]

Wait, so you're telling someone else they can't classify people as fans or not, but in the same breath go on and classify the exact same person in that manner? Your point becomes invalid when it begins with hypocracy.
You just went full circular logic on me. If he says he is a fan, then he is one, and clearly he cares for ISUr. No one anoint who is one, and who isn't.

[BisonFan02]

This.

He, from an outsiders perspective, has the best perspective as to how/where ISU fits in. Not wearing rose colored glasses doesn't make you not a fan.

I'm more critical about UNI than anyone. Am I not a UNI fan?

Nope...you are a Delta Devil.

[Redbirdgrad]

Umm.....

Wait, what BisonTru? Are you really using my post as an agrument towards the stereotypical statement you're trying to support right now? Did you understand the context of my post??? I stated this thread is a joke because we have people arguing about front 7's that will never play against each other which have zero impact on the game at hand. I would have loved to have come on this thread and read from knowledgeable SDSU fans (and others), breaking down the game and why each team may win by a TD. But instead we're discussing useless stuff, talking about useless fans, and overall maybe eating useless Casey's pizza!?!

I could care less if anyone is critical of ISU. I know my team is currently #2 in the country, has a pretty strong team this year, and a shot to win it all, which most teams can't say right now. If you're not talked about, you're not imporant. Right now we're being talked about, which means the program is heading in the right direction. I've had many good exchanges with fans of other teams. All while wearing Redbird gear in THEIR city. Who cares... deep down we all love the sport and if you can't have a mature conversation about a game, you might as well be a Bradley fan anyway. At least they don't have to worry about touchdowns anytime soon.

[Redbirdgrad]

You just went full circular logic on me. If he says he is a fan, then he is one, and clearly he cares for ISUr. No one anoint who is one, and who isn't.

So if I say I'm an orange, am I an orange? You don't classify yourself in society... sorry. Fan is short for "fanatic", which is someone who has a rabid passion for their team/program, hopefully with a rational tone.

He has the rational tone, but has absolutely no passion for ISU Athletics. Instead, he'd rather nitpick at everything the organization does incorrectly. When they do something right, he's a ghost. Can't find him anywhere. But should someone do something even slightly wrong, he's there to jab the knife all the way in. That, my friend, is not a fan.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Wait, what BisonTru? Are you really using my post as an agrument towards the stereotypical statement you're trying to support right now? Did you understand the context of my post??? I stated this thread is a joke because we have people arguing about front 7's that will never play against each other which have zero impact on the game at hand. I would have loved to have come on this thread and read from knowledgeable SDSU fans (and others), breaking down the game and why each team may win by a TD. But instead we're discussing useless stuff, talking about useless fans, and overall maybe eating useless Casey's pizza!?!

I could care less if anyone is critical of ISU. I know my team is currently #2 in the country, has a pretty strong team this year, and a shot to win it all, which most teams can't say right now. If you're not talked about, you're not imporant. Right now we're being talked about, which means the program is heading in the right direction. I've had many good exchanges with fans of other teams. All while wearing Redbird gear in THEIR city. Who cares... deep down we all love the sport and if you can't have a mature conversation about a game, you might as well be a Bradley fan anyway. At least they don't have to worry about touchdowns anytime soon.

No people were comparing the front 7s of UNI and NDSU to ISUr because it does actually have relevance on this game. Both those teams have already played SDSU and both held them to 7 points. People were saying ISUr wasn't as physical up front so they thought SDSU might have more success against them then they did against UNI and NDSU. Was that really that hard for you to follow along to? Does that not constitute an breakdown of the game for you? That was people telling you why they thought SDSU would win

[centennial]

So if I say I'm an orange, am I an orange? You don't classify yourself in society... sorry. Fan is short for "fanatic", which is someone who has a rabid passion for their team/program, hopefully with a rational tone.

He has the rational tone, but has absolutely no passion for ISU Athletics. Instead, he'd rather nitpick at everything the organization does incorrectly. When they do something right, he's a ghost. Can't find him anywhere. But should someone do something even slightly wrong, he's there to jab the knife all the way in. That, my friend, is not a fan.
Did you get a degree in anointing who is ISUr fan? Anyway I am done bickering. ISU wins because they are close to Casey's
http://www.iowafoodandfamily.com/sites/default/files/JMJ%20Casey's-5.jpg

[wow]

Distance to Casey's General store

ILSTU 1.3mi
SDSU 2.1mi

I think these numbers speak for themselves....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Clearly, ILSTU is poorly conditioned since its players must travel a mere 1.3 miles for a Casey's pizza. ILSTU's players are also unaccustomed to long travel distances, so they will come out flat after the trip to Brookings, SD.

[centennial]

Clearly, ILSTU is poorly conditioned since its players must travel a mere 1.3 miles for a Casey's pizza. ILSTU's players are also unaccustomed to long travel distances, so they will come out flat after the trip to Brookings, SD.
Casey's pizza gives you inhuman strength and stamina. Will Grier from Florida was recently suspended for eating too much of it.

[Redbird Recon]

The "Buy 2 slices, get a free 32 once fountain drink" is back. Likely the reason for ISUr's sluggish starts recently.

[OSBF]

Every team does it different, but the good ones who sustain all do it about the same way. You'll find NDSU, Montana, UNI, etc... all do it in very, very, similar fashions.


THIS THIS THIS

I've said for years the blueprint to follow is already out there.

[Bison56]

So if I say I'm an orange, am I an orange? You don't classify yourself in society... sorry. Fan is short for "fanatic", which is someone who has a rabid passion for their team/program, hopefully with a rational tone.

He has the rational tone, but has absolutely no passion for ISU Athletics. Instead, he'd rather nitpick at everything the organization does incorrectly. When they do something right, he's a ghost. Can't find him anywhere. But should someone do something even slightly wrong, he's there to jab the knife all the way in. That, my friend, is not a fan.

So angry.

[clenz]

No people were comparing the front 7s of UNI and NDSU to ISUr because it does actually have relevance on this game. Both those teams have already played SDSU and both held them to 7 points. People were saying ISUr wasn't as physical up front so they thought SDSU might have more success against them then they did against UNI and NDSU. Was that really that hard for you to follow along to? Does that not constitute an breakdown of the game for you? That was people telling you why they thought SDSU would win
Which is why the "ISU's front 7 doesn't have to face the front 7 of those two" argument was strange. The reason SDSU struggled with the complete physical domination of both.

Illinois State may be physical enough to do something similar. What we do know is that ISU isn't as strong in the front 7 as both.

I can tell you Northern Iowa gives up 116 yards rushing per game in conference play...Illinois State 145. UNI hasn't gotten to play Missouri State yet

Total defense goes like this
1 SDSU - 298 ypg
2 UNI - 311 ypg
3 NDSU - 333 ypg
4 YSU 336 ypg
5 USD 337 ypc
6 ISU - 350 ypg

ISU has gotten MSU to be able to skew their stats down. UNI, NDSU, and YSU haven't. If UNI played MSU and gave up MSU's average of 255 (seems unlikely) and 13 (seems very unlikely)
UNI's average would be down to 300. yards and drop another 2 points from the scoring average.


Look, I still have ISU #1 in my AGS ballot. I just think UNI and NDSU have better defenses.

[Redbird Recon]

Getting Corwin back to full strength will do wonders for the ISUr defense. Having young players in the trenches and in the secondary has been exploited at times this season.

ISUr's yards per play and scoring defense are both 3rd in conference games.

I'm with clenz. It hasn't been great, but it has been opportunistic. That matched with the Valley's best rushing attack is a recipe for success.

[Redbird Recon]

Concerning the "recipe for success"

Spack took transfers in by the boatload early in his tenure. Yes, he still takes D1 transfers, but ISUr's 2 deep only has 4 transfers currently; Roberson, David Perkins and 2 defensive backups.

UNI's offense has sputtered recently missing on 2 FBS transfer QB's.

[clenz]

Concerning the "recipe for success"

Spack took transfers in by the boatload early in his tenure. Yes, he still takes D1 transfers, but ISUr's 2 deep only has 4 transfers currently; Roberson, David Perkins and 2 defensive backups.

UNI's offense has sputtered recently missing on 2 FBS transfer QB's.
Yup...wen't away from the "formula"

It's not a coincidence.

[Kemo]

Everyone is a cop...or an informant...

And it keeps getting tougher to be one when you're on here spilling the beans! xshakefistx

[ISUMatt]

You guys all need to chill!!! I left their message board years ago because I stated I didn't like a color of a uniform and was beaten into the ground twice over for it. I've always told my inner circle of friends and tailgaters we have the worse fans in the Valley and it's hard to argue that. Just ask the SIU folks about mini footballs lol.

So earlier someone said the Jacks couldn't win a big game, and this used to be true for ISU but Coach Spack changed that culture. We went on the road in the playoffs in 2012 to Boone NC and walked out with a 38-37 win over a highly favored Appy St team

2014: lose to UNI and get a rematch in the playoffs...lots of worry if we would crap the bed again...NOPE, dominated 1st half, withstood a 4th quarter push and advanced

Next a road game to the Inferno...the place where our 2012 run ended...we dominated start to finish in Vernon Adams' last game there. Our reward, a trip to the Dungeon...

Defense played outstanding, offense terrible, until the 4th quarter. ISU takes the lead, and the D holds at midfield to get the ball back. Tre and Coprich run out the clock, anoth road game we weren't supposed to win

Frisco: down at half, a botched kickoff and NDSU is running us out of Texas...team finds a way to take the lead and were 90 seconds away with the Bison 3rd & 10. This one didn't work out but we came back...

We weren't supposed to win any of the above games, we weren't supposed to give NDSU everything they could handle. But somehow Spack gets this team ready, and executes the plan...for once ISU is the team winning that game, winning close games, making comebacks from the dead, just win baby!!! Long winded YES, but this is why ISU Nation is feeling good about Saturday! The end result, we will see, but SDSU If you win the fight, you're SHIRLEY going to know we were there!! :-)


ISUMatt

[Loyl2u]

Distance to Casey's General store

ILSTU 1.3mi
SDSU 2.1mi

I think these numbers speak for themselves....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Actually only 1.1 miles from Hancock 2.0 to Casey's at 1303 S Main St Normal.

[Professor Chaos]

Chuck Norris once ate a slice of Casey's breakfast pizza. There were no survivors...

[REALBird]

Chuck Norris once ate a slice of Casey's breakfast pizza. There were no survivors...

I heard they made Chuck Norris a breakfast pizza for DINNER, and after he ate a slice ISIS disbanded and accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior!

[CappinHard]

What in the world is going on in this thread?! Thank god for the Casey's talk. I hope the ISUr team is this distracted from the game.

[Rollbird5]

This was the game before the season I thought would be our toughest matchup outside of @Iowa. My prediction is 27-21 Redbirds win it on a late touchdown. Really could go either way tho, big game for both teams should be a good one!

[BisonFan02]

Sooooooooo..................has Brookings been getting all of this crappy weather down there as we have up here? That should make that grass look REALLY good... xlolx

[Jacks02]

Sooooooooo..................has Brookings been getting all of this crappy weather down there as we have up here? That should make that grass look REALLY good... xlolx

Looks like rain will miss Brookings today and the forecast for Saturday is 47 and sunny with a 5-10 MPH wind.

Looks like a great day for football.

[Bison56]

Some fans cant handle any criticism of the team they cheer for.

[OSBF]

Too much speed at the skill positions on offense and linebackers on D

Da Birds

Not as close as people think it "should" be

31-14

[Bisonator]

Too much speed at the skill positions on offense and linebackers on D

Da Birds

Not as close as people think it "should" be

31-14

You're gonna play the "southern speed" card just because you're south of South Dakota? xlolx

[Redbirdgrad]

Which is why the "ISU's front 7 doesn't have to face the front 7 of those two" argument was strange. The reason SDSU struggled with the complete physical domination of both.

Illinois State may be physical enough to do something similar. What we do know is that ISU isn't as strong in the front 7 as both.

I can tell you Northern Iowa gives up 116 yards rushing per game in conference play...Illinois State 145. UNI hasn't gotten to play Missouri State yet

Total defense goes like this
1 SDSU - 298 ypg
2 UNI - 311 ypg
3 NDSU - 333 ypg
4 YSU 336 ypg
5 USD 337 ypc
6 ISU - 350 ypg

ISU has gotten MSU to be able to skew their stats down. UNI, NDSU, and YSU haven't. If UNI played MSU and gave up MSU's average of 255 (seems unlikely) and 13 (seems very unlikely)
UNI's average would be down to 300. yards and drop another 2 points from the scoring average.


Look, I still have ISU #1 in my AGS ballot. I just think UNI and NDSU have better defenses.

While I like your analysis, don't you think yards per play is a better indicator of a defense than total yards allowed? ISU's offense usually leads to games where both teams have more possessions than your average game, leading to more "yards per game" each way... offensively and defensively. According to NCAA.COM, here is the yards per play given up this year for each team...

1 ISU - 4.82
2 USD 4.85
3 SDSU - 4.88
4 YSU 4.96
5 NDSU - 5.02
6 UNI - 5.05

What this tells me is that even though ISU is giving up more yards per game than a NDSU or a UNI, they're doing better on each possession defensively, which is why I believe their defense is every bit as good as the others mentioned.

The reason I said ISU's front 7 doesn't have to compete with NDSU's or UNI's is very valid. Yes, I understand that SDSU might have an "easier" time with them than in the game with NDSU (even though I doubt it, we're healthy now), I believe that "easier time" will still result in negative plays while rushing and a quarterback who is scrambling for their life. Again, our front 7 only has to compete with the SDSU blocking, which will struggle with ISU's front 7.

If you sleep on the ISU defense, I think you're crazy. But that's one man's humble opinion. I welcome the analysis of the statistics from others... I enjoy the discussion.

[clenz]

While I like your analysis, don't you think yards per play is a better indicator of a defense than total yards allowed? ISU's offense usually leads to games where both teams have more possessions than your average game, leading to more "yards per game" each way... offensively and defensively. According to NCAA.COM, here is the yards per play given up this year for each team...

1 ISU - 4.82
2 USD 4.85
3 SDSU - 4.88
4 YSU 4.96
5 NDSU - 5.02
6 UNI - 5.05

What this tells me is that even though ISU is giving up more yards per game than a NDSU or a UNI, they're doing better on each possession defensively, which is why I believe their defense is every bit as good as the others mentioned.

The reason I said ISU's front 7 doesn't have to compete with NDSU's or UNI's is very valid. Yes, I understand that SDSU might have an "easier" time with them than in the game with NDSU (even though I doubt it, we're healthy now), I believe that "easier time" will still result in negative plays while rushing and a quarterback who is scrambling for their life. Again, our front 7 only has to compete with the SDSU blocking, which will struggle with ISU's front 7.

If you sleep on the ISU defense, I think you're crazy. But that's one man's humble opinion. I welcome the analysis of the statistics from others... I enjoy the discussion.
I was going conference only stats. You start looking OOC and you'll start to get wide ranges of styles, and quality, of play that will greatly affect statistical outlooks like this. At least, using conference only stats, we get a "closed sample".

In the case of UNI, they played the #1 pass offense in the nation and the #1 rush offense in the nation in the OOC. Think that may skew UNI's total defense numbers, or per play numbers? I can promise you it does. Going conference only it shaves 20 yards per game, and a half yard per rush off - UNI is giving up just 2.8 ypc in conference play (120 less total yards running that second place). That's what happens when you play the #1 run team in America. How abut pass stats? UNI goes from 230 yards per game given up and 13 TD to 195 ypg just 7 TD. On the flip side Illinois State played Morgan State and EIU out of conference.

Conference only games gives us a better picture of how we match each other. The one issue there is that not every has played MSU. As I said before, UNI's numbers drop dramatically even if they gave up MSU's average - and the reality is they likely won't hit that average. NDSU hasn't played MSU yet either.

ISU has a very good defense. HOWEVER, it's entirely fair to say that their front 7 is behind UNI and NDSU in terms of physicality. It's also fair to say that based on the season so far SDSU has the better defense overall.

[Thumper 76]

While I like your analysis, don't you think yards per play is a better indicator of a defense than total yards allowed? ISU's offense usually leads to games where both teams have more possessions than your average game, leading to more "yards per game" each way... offensively and defensively. According to NCAA.COM, here is the yards per play given up this year for each team...

1 ISU - 4.82
2 USD 4.85
3 SDSU - 4.88
4 YSU 4.96
5 NDSU - 5.02
6 UNI - 5.05

What this tells me is that even though ISU is giving up more yards per game than a NDSU or a UNI, they're doing better on each possession defensively, which is why I believe their defense is every bit as good as the others mentioned.

The reason I said ISU's front 7 doesn't have to compete with NDSU's or UNI's is very valid. Yes, I understand that SDSU might have an "easier" time with them than in the game with NDSU (even though I doubt it, we're healthy now), I believe that "easier time" will still result in negative plays while rushing and a quarterback who is scrambling for their life. Again, our front 7 only has to compete with the SDSU blocking, which will struggle with ISU's front 7.

If you sleep on the ISU defense, I think you're crazy. But that's one man's humble opinion. I welcome the analysis of the statistics from others... I enjoy the discussion.

Your analysis of that stat also means you think USD has just as good of a D as NDSU and UNI, which makes me feel it's wrong.

Edit: I definitely not saying that ISU has a bad defense, I am saying that I don't feel that is the best state to use to judge a defense.

[BisonTru]

While I like your analysis, don't you think yards per play is a better indicator of a defense than total yards allowed? ISU's offense usually leads to games where both teams have more possessions than your average game, leading to more "yards per game" each way... offensively and defensively. According to NCAA.COM, here is the yards per play given up this year for each team...

1 ISU - 4.82
2 USD 4.85
3 SDSU - 4.88
4 YSU 4.96
5 NDSU - 5.02
6 UNI - 5.05

What this tells me is that even though ISU is giving up more yards per game than a NDSU or a UNI, they're doing better on each possession defensively, which is why I believe their defense is every bit as good as the others mentioned.

The reason I said ISU's front 7 doesn't have to compete with NDSU's or UNI's is very valid. Yes, I understand that SDSU might have an "easier" time with them than in the game with NDSU (even though I doubt it, we're healthy now), I believe that "easier time" will still result in negative plays while rushing and a quarterback who is scrambling for their life. Again, our front 7 only has to compete with the SDSU blocking, which will struggle with ISU's front 7.

If you sleep on the ISU defense, I think you're crazy. But that's one man's humble opinion. I welcome the analysis of the statistics from others... I enjoy the discussion.

A different, arguably better, way of looking at it, is how each defense faired against common opponents. I'm just going to keep this at Illinois St vs. South Dakota St. since that's the game were discussing and I don't feel like looking the rest up. I'm also excluding MSU because I don't feel you can take a lot away from a blow out of a bad team.

ISUr held UNI to only 3.6 ypp while SDSU gave up 5.8 ypp. However, in the other two contest SDSU held YSU to only 3.9 ypp and ISUb to 4.7. ISUr gave up 6.3 ypp to YSU and 5.2 to ISUb. Take what you want from it, the UNI games paint ISUr better and the YSU games paint SDSU better as well as the ISUb game just not as extreme as the other contests.

Having watched quite a few MVFC games this year, I'd certainly call this game a pick em. SDSU probably gets the nod, since they're home. ISU is playing for home field throughout and SDSU is playing for a possible first round bye.

[Redbird Recon]

ISU has a very good defense. HOWEVER, it's entirely fair to say that their front 7 is behind UNI and NDSU in terms of physicality.
Clenz is spot on. Illinois State is currently starting 3 sophomores on the DL and a 215 lb LB. The box should be good for years to come, but it fairly green currently.

[Redbirdgrad]

Your analysis of that stat also means you think USD has just as good of a D as NDSU and UNI, which makes me feel it's wrong.

Edit: I definitely not saying that ISU has a bad defense, I am saying that I don't feel that is the best state to use to judge a defense.

Thanks for the reply. No, my analysis using this stat means I think it's a better indicator of a good defense than total yards per game given up, but doesn't mean I think any particular team or defense is "good". I'm just saying I'd rather look at "per" stats than "total" stats. Totally personal preference there my friend, and I realize I might be the outlier.

I was simply replying to analysis which I saw which I don't think painted the complete picture. What's fun about stats is that you can set them up however you want, to paint whatever picture you want (just watch a presidential debate for more on this!). When looking at a team that averages more possessions per game due to tempo and power of offense, we have to be careful when looking at the total defensive yards given up, that's all.

I think the analysis is spot on. NDSU and UNI have a slightly better front 7 than ISU, but the gap is closer than most probably think! Cheers!

[SDSUAlum08]

Any Redbird fans making the trip? It's the only game I'm able to make it back for this year.

[mmiller_34]

Sooooooooo..................has Brookings been getting all of this crappy weather down there as we have up here? That should make that grass look REALLY good... xlolx

Good get it all out. You guys have 1 more week to trash talk how terrible our field is.

[Thumper 76]

Thanks for the reply. No, my analysis using this stat means I think it's a better indicator of a good defense than total yards per game given up, but doesn't mean I think any particular team or defense is "good". I'm just saying I'd rather look at "per" stats than "total" stats. Totally personal preference there my friend, and I realize I might be the outlier.

I was simply replying to analysis which I saw which I don't think painted the complete picture. What's fun about stats is that you can set them up however you want, to paint whatever picture you want (just watch a presidential debate for more on this!). When looking at a team that averages more possessions per game due to tempo and power of offense, we have to be careful when looking at the total defensive yards given up, that's all.

I think the analysis is spot on. NDSU and UNI have a slightly better front 7 than ISU, but the gap is closer than most probably think! Cheers!

Honestly I think SDSU has the most underrated D in the conference, on the season they are giving up an average of 13.9 pts per game. Next closest is NDSU at 20. That's a TD difference.

[Professor Chaos]

Honestly I think SDSU has the most underrated D in the conference, on the season they are giving up an average of 13.9 pts per game. Next closest is NDSU at 20. That's a TD difference.
Of all the defensive stats you can thrown out there this will always be the most important. Two others that get overlooked too much in favor of the yardage numbers are defensive takeaways and 3rd down defense. Generally if you can take the ball away from the other team or get them off the field on the money down you'll have success as a defense.

[Thumper 76]

I feel really good about this matchup for SDSU, so that means it won't be good for the Jacks.

34-10 ISUR

[mmiller_34]

I feel really good about this matchup for SDSU, so that means it won't be good for the Jacks.

34-10 ISUR

I've never felt good about this match up. We're doomed.

[Thumper 76]

I've never felt good about this match up. We're doomed.

Game. Blouses.

[Missingnumber7]

Good get it all out. You guys have 1 more week to trash talk how terrible our field is.

Excuse my ignorance or lack of seeing it somewhere else, but is turf going in too?

[BisonTru]

Excuse my ignorance or lack of seeing it somewhere else, but is turf going in too?

Yes

[mmiller_34]

Excuse my ignorance or lack of seeing it somewhere else, but is turf going in too?

Yes.

[Missingnumber7]

Yes.

I think it would be one of the nice facilities in the MVFC, but atmosphere makes up a huge portion of the best stadium. Start filling that place up for everyone and then it will be the premier facility in the league.

[mmiller_34]

I think it would be one of the nice facilities in the MVFC, but atmosphere makes up a huge portion of the best stadium. Start filling that place up for everyone and then it will be the premier facility in the league.

The next couple years will be interesting in Brookings. I feel the amenities at Coughlin were so terrible that the experience for the average fan kept people away. I wouldn't be shocked to see our average attendance leap from 12,000-14,000 in the next couple years. The coming years will likely look like this: 13,000-14,000 for first couple of home games. Two big crowds of 16,000-19,000 (Hobo Day & either NDSU or USD) and a couple of crap crowds of 9,000-11,000.

[Thumper 76]

The next couple years will be interesting in Brookings. I feel the amenities at Coughlin were so terrible that the experience for the average fan kept people away. I wouldn't be shocked to see our average attendance leap from 12,000-14,000 in the next couple years. The coming years will likely look like this: 13,000-14,000 for first couple of home games. Two big crowds of 16,000-19,000 (Hobo Day & either NDSU or USD) and a couple of crap crowds of 9,000-11,000.

This is accurate. Now should we pull off a run to the chipper and follow with a great year next year, then we may be on to something.

[OSBF]

You guys all need to chill!!! I left their message board years ago because I stated I didn't like a color of a uniform and was beaten into the ground twice over for it. I've always told my inner circle of friends and tailgaters we have the worse fans in the Valley and it's hard to argue that. Just ask the SIU folks about mini footballs lol.

So earlier someone said the Jacks couldn't win a big game, and this used to be true for ISU but Coach Spack changed that culture. We went on the road in the playoffs in 2012 to Boone NC and walked out with a 38-37 win over a highly favored Appy St team

2014: lose to UNI and get a rematch in the playoffs...lots of worry if we would crap the bed again...NOPE, dominated 1st half, withstood a 4th quarter push and advanced

Next a road game to the Inferno...the place where our 2012 run ended...we dominated start to finish in Vernon Adams' last game there. Our reward, a trip to the Dungeon...

Defense played outstanding, offense terrible, until the 4th quarter. ISU takes the lead, and the D holds at midfield to get the ball back. Tre and Coprich run out the clock, anoth road game we weren't supposed to win

Frisco: down at half, a botched kickoff and NDSU is running us out of Texas...team finds a way to take the lead and were 90 seconds away with the Bison 3rd & 10. This one didn't work out but we came back...

We weren't supposed to win any of the above games, we weren't supposed to give NDSU everything they could handle. But somehow Spack gets this team ready, and executes the plan...for once ISU is the team winning that game, winning close games, making comebacks from the dead, just win baby!!! Long winded YES, but this is why ISU Nation is feeling good about Saturday! The end result, we will see, but SDSU If you win the fight, you're SHIRLEY going to know we were there!! :-)


ISUMatt

Hey Matty, "C" and I been talking about heading North for some pizza, you guys want to meet us at either the Giordano's or the HRI by you? I'll buy.

[BisonFan02]

ISUr fans can play this game down in Brookings too....its pretty fun. :D

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n610/brhalvors8188/SDSUBingo.jpg

[jacksfan29]

Hey Matty, "C" and I been talking about heading North for some pizza, you guys want to meet us at either the Giordano's or the HRI by you? I'll buy.

They are playing in South Dakota, not North Dakota; or as a friend of mine who recently got back from the Bakken called it... the Appalachia of the northern plains.

[CappinHard]

ISUr fans can play this game down in Brookings too....its pretty fun. :D

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n610/brhalvors8188/SDSUBingo.jpg

https://media.giphy.com/media/37Ez5CZ8P0jSM/giphy.gif

[OSBF]

They are playing in South Dakota, not North Dakota; or as a friend of mine who recently got back from the Bakken called it... the Appalachia of the northern plains.

Matt lives about an hour and 1/2 north of us, in the south 'burbs.

[BisonFan02]

https://media.giphy.com/media/37Ez5CZ8P0jSM/giphy.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/5d8b1474cf38aa7ee008522b9dcc8389/tumblr_n9fid7zEc41s2n53zo2_500.gif

[ISUMatt]

Matt lives about an hour and 1/2 north of us, in the south 'burbs.

ISUMatt couldn't survive in the Dakotas! Lol. Too much of a Big City boy!!

[Thumper 76]

Lujan starting for SDSU for the first two series, with TC taking the third

[Thumper 76]

Jacks go 3 and out after receiving the kick.

[Thumper 76]

Followed by an ISU 3 and out.

[Thumper 76]

Lujan throws an INT, ISU ball at the SDSU 44

[Drblankstare]

Wow that was a bad pass by Lujan.

[centennial]

Don't know where he was looking.

[Thumper 76]

And TD for ISU

[Twentysix]

Go Jacks!

[Thumper 76]

Hope TC gives the Jacks a spark.....

[centennial]

That missed tackle cost SDSU.

[Redbirdgrad]

ISU's D-Line looks overmatched...

[Rollbird5]

Should've been a fumble! wow break for sdsu there

[Redbirdgrad]

lol... inadvertent whistle negates ANOTHER SDSU turnover... guess it's 11 vs. the world today. Strap it up boys, let's go to work...

[Kemo]

That was a break for SDSU. They shouldn't have blown the whistle, but the ref did.

[Rollbird5]

That was a break for SDSU. They shouldn't have blown the whistle, but the ref did.

Maybe he thought we're playing two hand touch today

[centennial]

SDSU is trying to lose.

[Redbirdgrad]

Trying to lose? Maybe ISU has something to do with it...

[centennial]

Trying to lose? Maybe ISU has something to do with it...
What is it with you ISU fans? I was making a comment about missing the FG.

[TheKingpin28]

What is it with you ISU fans? I was making a comment about missing the FG.

Too insecure about negative comments. They need a safe space to go to.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EsMEYjr9o1M

[Bison56]

What is it with you ISU fans? I was making a comment about missing the FG.
They are sensitive.

[Thumper 76]

Good grief the Jacks are playing sloppy

[Rollbird5]

Another pick! There we go Alec!

[Redbirdgrad]

Don't care what you were talking about and I'm not "too sensitive" at all. That's the hive mind talking to you my friend.

ISU's defense taking SDSU completely out of this game right now. Had the ref not blown his whistle early, we're probably up 2 scores by now.

Yes, SDSU missed a field goal, but that's in their recent pedigree. Nothing different this game.

[Thumper 76]

And the Jacks hold on 4th!!! God I love our DEFENSE!

[Thumper 76]

Don't care what you were talking about and I'm not "too sensitive" at all. That's the hive mind talking to you my friend.

ISU's defense taking SDSU completely out of this game right now. Had the ref not blown his whistle early, we're probably up 2 scores by now.

Yes, SDSU missed a field goal, but that's in their recent pedigree. Nothing different this game.

Pretty big assumption on your part. Carlson for SDSU is eighth in the country in field goals, and the offense is starting to move the ball.

[Redbirdgrad]

Tre bounces one off the turf on 4th down. What are we doing, trying to lose this game? xeyebrowx

Credit to the SDSU defense, nice work.

[Redbirdgrad]

Pretty big assumption on your part. Carlson for SDSU is eighth in the country in field goals, and the offense is starting to move the ball.

Big assumption? We would have had the ball on your 35(ish?)??? I think that blown call is worth at least 3 points.

[Rollbird5]

Pretty big assumption on your part. Carlson for SDSU is eighth in the country in field goals, and the offense is starting to move the ball.
12-18 on field goals on the year not exactly too great just looking at that stat, but he may have missed long ones I haven't watched most of your games so could be misleading

[Thumper 76]

Big assumption? We would have had the ball on your 35(ish?)??? I think that blown call is worth at least 3 points.

Really? Case you had the ball on the last drive on our fourty. How automatic were those three points?

[Grizalltheway]

All these empty seats, and they're expanding?xconfusedx

[Thumper 76]

12-18 on field goals on the year not exactly too great just looking at that stat, but he may have missed long ones I haven't watched most of your games so could be misleading

He's number two in the conference for FG percentage coming into this game.

[Thumper 76]

All these empty seats, and they're expanding?xconfusedx

Our average attendance for the last couple years has been over the amount of seats available. It's halfway through building the new stadium. Yea it's a bad crow but we still have the third or fourth highest average attendance in te valley (until perhaps after today at least)

[centennial]

He's number two in the conference for FG percentage coming into this game.
He is a good FG kicker.

[Redbirdgrad]

Don't try and point out flaws of other teams rollbird, there's always an explanation. Dude misses a field goal nearly every game, but here he misses one in ours and they're "trying to lose the game".

The hypocrisy on this board is why ISU fans rarely visit and why I might bounce again. Not worth my time.

[Thumper 76]

Don't try and point out flaws of other teams rollbird, there's always an explanation. Dude misses a field goal nearly every game, but here he misses one in ours and they're "trying to lose the game".

The hypocrisy on this board is why ISU fans rarely visit and why I might bounce again. Not worth my time.

Go and look up the stats, then get back to me. I'll hang up and wait.....

[TheKingpin28]

Don't try and point out flaws of other teams rollbird, there's always an explanation. Dude misses a field goal nearly every game, but here he misses one in ours and they're "trying to lose the game".

The hypocrisy on this board is why ISU fans rarely visit and why I might bounce again. Not worth my time.

Oh look out. We have found another snowflake. Please, do remind us about how no one can bash the Redbirds or how non Jacks fan can comment on the game.

[Bison56]

xbawlingx
Don't try and point out flaws of other teams rollbird, there's always an explanation. Dude misses a field goal nearly every game, but here he misses one in ours and they're "trying to lose the game".

The hypocrisy on this board is why ISU fans rarely visit and why I might bounce again. Not worth my time.

[centennial]

Don't try and point out flaws of other teams rollbird, there's always an explanation. Dude misses a field goal nearly every game, but here he misses one in ours and they're "trying to lose the game".

The hypocrisy on this board is why ISU fans rarely visit and why I might bounce again. Not worth my time.
Perhaps you should try to be an adult. I know it's hard.

[Rollbird5]

Go and look up the stats, then get back to me. I'll hang up and wait.....

He also is tied for 2nd most misses in the conference

[Thumper 76]

He also is tied for 2nd most misses in the conference

Gee, wonder what is a better judge, percentage or total misses.

[Thumper 76]

Jacks offense needs to start stringing some plays together here and convert a third down at some point.

[Kemo]

Jacks offense needs to start stringing some plays together here and convert a third down at some point.

We need to start winning first down. That's one of the common themes I've seen when our drives stall: A bad first down play.

[Thumper 76]

INT by the Jacks!

[Rollbird5]

Gee, wonder what is a better judge, percentage or total misses.
I'm not saying he's bad or anything, just trying to be objective

[Kemo]

Jesse Bobbit ran a nice out route there. Tre hit him in stride.

[Rollbird5]

Yikes bad throw there

[Thumper 76]

Tie game!

[Rollbird5]

God awful call by the ref didn't see anything PI there

[Kemo]

Not sure if that was pass interference there on ISU. Sure wasn't on the end of the play, maybe earlier?...

[REALBird]

Garbage PI leads to SDSU TD. F***!

[Rollbird5]

Would've been 3rd and long too damn, refs having an off day so far first the fumble play and then the "PI" call

[Bison56]

That was PI? Wow that was a horrible call. Understatement

[RabidRabbit]

TC sprints to corner for td. JACKS TIE Redbird @ 7 with 3:30 leftto half.

[Kemo]

That should have been pick #2 for Roberson.

[Kemo]

Sweet pass from Lujan to Wieneke for the TD!!! Xpt blocked though... 13-7 Jacks.

[Rollbird5]

Good thing they called a timeout for that kick LOL

[Kemo]

Good thing they called a timeout for that kick LOL

Your kicker looked like he hurt himself.

[Rollbird5]

Your kicker looked like he hurt himself.
Yea limped off the field hopefully he's ok

[Kemo]

TD Jackrabbits! Christion to Andrews. 2pt attempt failed. 19-7 SDSU.

[centennial]

TD Jackrabbits! Christion to Andrews. 2pt attempt failed. 19-7 SDSU.
Christion looks like a solid QB. Similar to Stick, hard to stop.

[Kemo]

Wow, complete breakdown on D. TD Warrum.

[Kemo]

Warrum sure has been a stud this game. Only one the Jacks seems to have trouble corralling.

[Rollbird5]

Looked like a fumble!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Just turned the game on. Where is everyone? It's a picture perfect day in Brookings and the stakes are huge!

[Kemo]

Not going to lie. Jacks might be in trouble in this game if we had instant replay available for this game.

[Rollbird5]

Shoulda been fumble #3, sdsu has gotten real lucky there is no reviews

[IBleedYellow]

Just turned the game on. Where is everyone? It's a picture perfect day in Brookings and the stakes are huge!

Hunting, yo.

[IBleedYellow]

What a terrible forced pass by T Christianson (how do you spell it?)

[Kemo]

What a terrible forced pass by T Christianson (how do you spell it?)

Taryn Christion

I actually didn't think the pass was that bad. Probably better than a punt the way we've been kicking.

[IBleedYellow]

Taryn Christion

I actually didn't think the pass was that bad. Probably better than a punt the way we've been kicking.

It was just really forced, IMO.

I guess the fact that the Rabbits had it "covered" it wasn't terrible circumstances considered. Still INT's aren't the best. ;)

[Drblankstare]

Wow

[Thumper 76]

TC to Weineke! 74 yards for a TD! Two point conversion failed

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Wow! What a TD pass!!

[Kemo]

Jake. Wieneke.

[IBleedYellow]

TC to Weineke! 74 yards for a TD! Two point conversion failed

My stream is 3 minutes behind, I just came here cheering and whooping to post...and I was way behind lol.

- - - Updated - - -

Play some more awesome defense Rabbits!

[clenz]

I thought ISU had the best defense in the conference?

[No_Skill]

Time left??

[Thumper 76]

Time left??

12:09 in the 4th

[IBleedYellow]

I thought ISU had the best defense in the conference?

That title goes to NDSU or UNI.

[clenz]

That awesome ISU defense though. 425 surrendered with over 12eft

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/07/e5331aeab8e98600af91f745124f6a9e.jpg

[clenz]

For those not wanting to do the math on yards per play-what ISU hangs their hat onhttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/07/c9da8a2c158d7d4b2e6a9948325b1831.jpg

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

ISUR with a big play!!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

SDSU doing a good job of making Illinois State burn clock...

[Thumper 76]

That title goes to NDSU or UNI.

I believe SDSU should be in that conversation sir.

[Kemo]

HUGE FG BLOCK!

[Thumper 76]

FG is blocked!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Illinois State botches the FG attempt! SDSU in real good shape...

[IBleedYellow]

Huge blocked punt!!!

[centennial]

https://rs1233.pbsrc.com/albums/ff384/mags8407/colbert_3dandpopcorn.gif~c200

[Drblankstare]

Man the Jacks are still trying to give this one away.

[IBleedYellow]

That shoe string tackle. Hah.

[Thumper 76]

TD ISU

[IBleedYellow]

TD ISU

LOL. He wasn't down...that was totally a fumble.

[centennial]

That was a turnover.

[Southern Bison]

That was a strip & recovery...Jacks ball. Bull**** that there's no replay.

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