What to do with Southern Illinois

[taper]

Should SIU be ranked? A 3-5 record is nothing special, but look at the games.
1 point loss to Indiana. Not the greatest FBS team, but they did put up 47 points.
3 point loss to SEMO. Black spot, though plenty of other ranked teams have similar losses.
1 point loss to ranked Western Ill. Another team better than their record and severely under-ranked IMHO.
3 point loss to ranked Indiana St.
6 point loss to ranked NDSU.

21 point win over Liberty, which was considered a good win at the time.
Put up 73 on Missouri St.
Win over ranked Youngstown.

Definitely ranked below the solid teams they lost to, but how far? Despite the record I don't think there are 25 teams that could beat SIU. I know some voters put more stock in W-L than strength of schedule. Is that right?

[KPSUL]

Should SIU be ranked? A 3-5 record is nothing special, but look at the games.
1 point loss to Indiana. Not the greatest FBS team, but they did put up 47 points.
3 point loss to SEMO. Black spot, though plenty of other ranked teams have similar losses.
1 point loss to ranked Western Ill. Another team better than their record and severely under-ranked IMHO.
3 point loss to ranked Indiana St.
6 point loss to ranked NDSU.

21 point win over Liberty, which was considered a good win at the time.
Put up 73 on Missouri St.
Win over ranked Youngstown.

Definitely ranked below the solid teams they lost to, but how far? Despite the record I don't think there are 25 teams that could beat SIU. I know some voters put more stock in W-L than strength of schedule. Is that right?

You're reaching here.

[BisonBacker]

You're reaching here.

You sure about that?

[KPSUL]

Yep, unless they win out which would means wins over SD,UNI and ISUr.

[FargoBison]

3-5 is 3-5...not in my poll and won't be unless they win out.

[mvemjsunpx]

The SEMO loss means no. SEMO lost to a DII.

[344Johnson]

You're reaching here.

Agreed. You need to win games.

[IBleedYellow]

The SEMO loss means no. SEMO lost to a DII.

This is all I need to know.

[gregatim]

You are what your record says you are. Their defense is bad.

[Drblankstare]

Very competitive team, but they play in the wrong conference

[IBleedYellow]

Very competitive team, but they play in the wrong conference

If they had a defense they might be okay.

[taper]

SEMO was a bad loss. South Dakota over NDSU. North Dakota over Portland St. Colgate over Fordham. Delaware over William and Mary. Lamar over Sam Houston. You ranking any of those losers?

Again, name 25 teams that would beat SIU. Rankings are the 25 best teams, not the best records.

[Southern Bison]

Close losses...but you have to play a full 60 minutes. They're outside the top 25.

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[Peems]

SEMO was a bad loss. South Dakota over NDSU. North Dakota over Portland St. Colgate over Fordham. Delaware over William and Mary. Lamar over Sam Houston. You ranking any of those losers?

Again, name 25 teams that would beat SIU. Rankings are the 25 best teams, not the best records.

But you aren't a top 25 team if you can't close out games and continually lose

[taper]

But you aren't a top 25 team if you can't close out games and continually lose

This is something I completely disagree with. If a team is ranked 20, you explicitly expect them to lose to higher ranked teams. Otherwise you'd have them ranked higher. If 20 loses to 10 by 1 score, that's exactly what you said they'd do and you shouldn't punish 20 for it. Since most of the top 25 don't play each other we rarely see such matchups.

[Penguin Nation]

It would make no sense to rank Dartmouth, Fordham, or Harvard over SIU....unless you seriously think any of those schools could beat SIU. Five MVFC teams are 4-4. That obviously doesn't mean half of the MVFC is mediocre. All MVFC teams are one of the top 25 teams in the FCS, except for one.

[BisonFan02]

It would make no sense to rank Dartmouth, Fordham, or Harvard over SIU....unless you seriously think any of those schools could beat SIU. Five MVFC teams are 4-4. That obviously doesn't mean half of the MVFC is mediocre. All MVFC teams are one of the top 25 teams in the FCS, except for one.

I think the valley is back to beating the living **** out of each other...then limping into the playoffs.

[FargoBison]

I think a lot of teams could beat SIU, their defense is well not great. But if their offense gets rolling they could beat a lot of teams. I don't really get how they are worthy of being ranked, you need to beat somebody.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

3-5 is 3-5...not in my poll and won't be unless they win out.


This here.

Close doesn't count with 5 loses.

[mvemjsunpx]

Again, name 25 teams that would beat SIU.

That's not a useful question with SIU. They're one of those teams that can beat almost anyone and lose to almost anyone.

[ST_Lawson]

1 point loss to ranked Western Ill. Another team better than their record and severely under-ranked IMHO.

We seem to be doing our best to make that not the case. Won't be ranked this week probably...maybe in the AGS poll, but that's about it.

[Bisonator]

I think the valley is back to beating the living **** out of each other...then limping into the playoffs.

What do you mean "back to"? It's always been like that. xlolx

[BisonFan02]

What do you mean "back to"? It's always been like that. xlolx

The Valley playoff teams last year were fairly fresh.... xlolx

[JayJ79]

If UNI and SIU come into the last week 5-5, the winner should get a spot in the top 25.
(though I'd prefer UNI to come into that game 6-4 and be playing for a playoff spot)

[eiu1999]

This is all I need to know.

They'd be 2nd best in the OVC

[JayJ79]

speaking of the stupidity of 20ish year olds (from the Montana thread), any news/rumors as to what Brandt and Isom did to get in trouble?

http://www.siusalukis.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/110215aaa.html

[Professor Chaos]

speaking of the stupidity of 20ish year olds (from the Montana thread), any news/rumors as to what Brandt and Isom did to get in trouble?

http://www.siusalukis.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/110215aaa.html
Isom is a big loss for them. I recall Brandt because he verballed to NDSU back in the day when he was coming out of high school and switched shortly before signing day to go to SIU instead.

No idea what they did though.

[FargoBison]

speaking of the stupidity of 20ish year olds (from the Montana thread), any news/rumors as to what Brandt and Isom did to get in trouble?

http://www.siusalukis.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/110215aaa.html

Isom should have went to Illinois State.


SIU football released senior defensive end Adam Brandt and suspended freshman running back Daquan Isom indefinitely Monday morning.
Isom was issued a notice to appear by police for possession of less than 30 grams of marijuana on Oct. 25, according to the Department of Public Safety 60-Day crime log.

http://www.dailyegyptian.com/sports/article_abeeef0e-8190-11e5-9c84-77e38f2d6077.html

[Sycamore62]

Just weed?

[FargoBison]

Just weed?

Well weed and then having your coach find out about in the local newspaper.

[Sycamore62]

Well weed and then having your coach find out about in the local newspaper.
It's not like he sold it to an police informant. I think it can be bought at dispensaries in the next 2 weeks here.

[underdawg]

It's not like he sold it to an police informant. I think it can be bought at dispensaries in the next 2 weeks here.


Yeh Lennon said he got in trouble for not telling the coaches immediately--We've got very liberal pot possession laws in Carbondale and 30 grams possession or less is just a ticket--you go pay your fine and there is no criminal record---like a traffic ticket--but coaches don't like finding out about those things in the school newspaper.

As far as Southern's fate--I as a fan say that yes even with our atrocious D we probably could beat a lot of 6-2, even 7-1 other teams thanks to OC Nick Hill's innovative Offense--but that ain't the way it works---and perhaps it shouldn't work that way---I know if the Salukis were one of those 6-2, 7-1 team's we'd be peed off if a 6-5 team took our place. WE're just going to have to find a way to win close games--we've lost 5 games by 14 total points.

[clenz]

Illinois State would name him captain. Least criminal type player on their program


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[Redbird 13]

Illinois State would name him captain. Least criminal type player on their program


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Definitely.

We should probably start recruiting the strong citizens UNI has throughout the years. Maybe Baylen Laury and Joseph Thomas still have eligibility?

[Redbird 13]

Henry Obi, Johnny Gray, Victor Williams, Adam Roberts , Darrell Lloyd, Jamie Kunz, Terrell Sinkfield Jr., Brandon Keith, Adam Lacrea Gray Roberts,
Darrell Lloyd and Christopher Parsons were fine members of the Panthers football program.

Want me to keep going, Panther boy? Because the list goes on and on and on.

[clenz]

You had to go back over a decade to find someone. You then picked guys who were instantly booted from the team and from the school.

Solid choice


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[JayJ79]

I feel terrible for the victims of that horrendous crime

[seattlespider]

You guys are still citing people for simple pot possession? xeyebrowx

[clenz]

Henry Obi - immediately suspended and took a deferred sentence in court.
Johnny Gray - immediately booted
Victor Williams - immediately booted...and was actually CLEARED of ALL charges within 36 hours but wasn't let back on the team
Adam Roberts - immediatley suspended and didn't get to finish his career in Cedar Falls after his trial.
Darrell Lloyd - same incident as Adam Roberts. Charges were reduced and dropped.
Terrell Sinkfield Jr. - absoultely should have been booted by the time he graduated. I'll grant that. Go to PantherNation and search for that time fram ane you'll see the same thoughts from 99% of Panther Fans
Brandon Keith - was already graduated at the time of the incident...Oh, and 1 of his two charges was dismissed. The other was "interference with official acts" which is is pretty much whatever a cop/judge wants it to be
Christopher Parsons - immediatly booted from the team


You listed 2 or 3 of them twice....so....

Notice the number of times people got booted. Want to know what their charges were for when they got booted? Weed.

Henry Obi, Darrell Lloyd and Terrell Sinkfield (though I think he should have been booted was just multiple "intereference" issues) were all hit with "intereference of official acts". Want to know what qualifies as interference in the state of Iowa?


719.1 INTERFERENCE WITH OFFICIAL ACTS.
1. A person who knowingly resists or obstructs anyone known by
the person to be a peace officer, emergency medical care provider
under chapter 147A, or fire fighter, whether paid or volunteer, in
the performance of any act which is within the scope of the lawful
duty or authority of that officer, emergency medical care provider
under chapter 147A, or fire fighter, whether paid or volunteer, or
who knowingly resists or obstructs the service or execution by any
authorized person of any civil or criminal process or order of any
court, commits a simple misdemeanor. In addition to any other
penalties, the punishment imposed for a violation of this subsection
shall include assessment of a fine of not less than two hundred fifty dollars.


However, Sinkfield had that happen twice while on campus. He should have been booted.

[CID1990]

Sure, rank 'em.

Why not? There are plenty nationally ranked 4-4 teams.

[TheKingpin28]

Sinkfield was a dumbass back in high school and junior high. He would not respect the shot put/discus coach since he graduated from Minnetonka instead of Hopkins. Always trying to showboat and was never for the team. Should have been kicked off the team for consistently being 10-20 minutes late for practice since he was "too busy" to be bothered. He always thought he was above the rules since he was the "best" there was. He was not coachable and a constant headache. It sucks too since he had immense raw talent and speed at the 100M dash.

[clenz]

Sinkfield was a dumbass back in high school and junior high. He would not respect the shot put/discus coach since he graduated from Minnetonka instead of Hopkins. Always trying to showboat and was never for the team. Should have been kicked off the team for consistently being 10-20 minutes late for practice since he was "too busy" to be bothered. He always thought he was above the rules since he was the "best" there was. He was not coachable and a constant headache. It sucks too since he had immense raw talent and speed at the 100M dash.
Sounds about like his time at UNI. His legal issues weren't because he was a violent kid. It was because he had no respect for authorities (cops) and since he was unwilling to talk/work with them they hit him with the interference with official acts and didn't do what normally happens in apartment complex skirmishes - "ignore" any pushing and shoving that took place. That's what those incidents were...a group of drunk, testosterone, filled wind bags yelling at each other and pushing to try to get the other to back down. They were described as "fist fights", but that's an exaggeration for what was happening. It's why his charges were interference and disorderly conduct...not assault.

He should have been, and most were for him, being booted for being a moron that had no respect for the coaches/team.

It looks, from the outside at least, that he's turned his **** around since getting cut by 4 NFL teams in 3 weeks. He's having a damn good season up in Canada.

[deez_na]

Well UND is receiving votes around probably 35 and I know this team is better than UND so they are at least top 35 huh?

[Houndawg]

Well weed and then having your coach find out about in the local newspaper.

That's what teed off Lennon. Possession of under 30 grams in Cdale is a ticket.


As for SIU, 3-5 is 3-5 no matter how tough the schedule is. We're a young team overall and pretty green and some of the wrong people have been injured. Our recruiting has improved and we'll be a solid mid-pack team for a while. Any higher aspirations won't be helped by our $40 million budget cut.

[TheKingpin28]

Sounds about like his time at UNI. His legal issues weren't because he was a violent kid. It was because he had no respect for authorities (cops) and since he was unwilling to talk/work with them they hit him with the interference with official acts and didn't do what normally happens in apartment complex skirmishes - "ignore" any pushing and shoving that took place. That's what those incidents were...a group of drunk, testosterone, filled wind bags yelling at each other and pushing to try to get the other to back down. They were described as "fist fights", but that's an exaggeration for what was happening. It's why his charges were interference and disorderly conduct...not assault.

He should have been, and most were for him, being booted for being a moron that had no respect for the coaches/team.

It looks, from the outside at least, that he's turned his **** around since getting cut by 4 NFL teams in 3 weeks. He's having a damn good season up in Canada.

The head coach for track, coach Harris, made it clear that if he decides he doesn't want to show respect he can run laps and be scratched from competing. He got it "together" enough to not be a complete idiot.

[CHIP72]

SEMO was a bad loss. South Dakota over NDSU. North Dakota over Portland St. Colgate over Fordham. Delaware over William and Mary. Lamar over Sam Houston. You ranking any of those losers?

Again, name 25 teams that would beat SIU. Rankings are the 25 best teams, not the best records.

Good teams find ways to win games. A team with a losing record, almost by definition, is not a good team. SIU is a decent team that has shown it isn't quite good enough to win games and be a good team.

Incidentally, those other teams with bad losses found ways to win most of their other games, not merely come close to winning.

I can't help but think of aunts, uncles, and certain male body parts, as well as think of Rich Kotite (Eagles and Jets fans will understand), when reading the idea brought up in this thread.

Incidentally, the MVFC, while still very good and a top FCS conference (maybe the top FCS conference in 2015), probably isn't quite as good this year as in recent past years, so that's a factor to consider too.


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[penguinpower]

The OOC record says it is the best conference

[skinny_uncle]

The OOC record says it is the best conference
So does Sagarin, rating the Valley ahead of some FBS conferences.
As far as SIU, barring an unlikely 3 game winning streak to finish the regular season, you don't
t have to do anything with them. They'll be sitting at home watching the playoffs again.

[Houndawg]

So does Sagarin, rating the Valley ahead of some FBS conferences.
As far as SIU, barring an unlikely 3 game winning streak to finish the regular season, you don't
t have to do anything with them. They'll be sitting at home watching the playoffs again.

They're already done even if they were to win out.