North Dakota picks new Mascot!

[Kemo]

The SDSU logo is a bunny. Do you really have room to criticize our logo?

SDSU has an awesome mascot and logos. It's amazing how often people who don't know anything about South Dakota State respond positively toward our nickname.

[BisonTru]

Just when you thought it was over...............http://www.howaboutwekeepsioux.com/

FAWK! xbangx

[bisonguy]

Yeah, quite a bit actually. Apparently our mascot was good enough to make it into the Capital One mascot challenge. Good luck with the "Fighting Hawks". Also it's unique. Not a cut and paste cardboard cutout mascot name.

You haven't even seen their new mascot yet, have you?

Once they unveil Mike Hawk everyone will start talking about it and want to see it for themselves. They won't be able to get enough of Mike Hawk!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UncleBuck]

It took my sister a little bit to understand why chanting 'You suck Hawks!' is hilarious.

[Bisonator]

The possibilities are endless!

"Hey kids come over here and get your picture taken with Mike Hawk. Don't be shy he won't bite go ahead get in there and hug Mike Hawk."xlolx

[gumby013]

I hope their mascot is a big black hawk.

[REALBird]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21817&stc=1
UND Football.........it's Fierce! (screeeeeeeeeeeeech!)

[BisonFan02]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21817&stc=1
UND Football.........it's Fierce! (screeeeeeeeeeeeech!)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEMlvjJ9uxo

KOWW!!!!!!!!!!!! xlolx

[Mayville Bison]

Unique usually sucks, though. I'm just glad this damn process is finally over. For the longest time it looked like they were either going to extend it, or just decide not to have a nickname, which would have been just moronic. Also, out of all the choices they had, I thought Hawks was the best option when they released about 67 options way back when, so I'm actually surprised my initial favorite ended up winning. Going unique you end up with Flickertails, Lambkins, Mosquitoes, Fighting Soybeans, or something else that is just a terrible joke. I know it's natural to just rag on UND, but this is kind of a pathetic argument going here. Anyone who is anyone has seen The Mighty Ducks and knows Hawks is a badass name for the 'evil' hockey team. Still there will be all sorts of 'butthurt' until they die Sioux or "North Dakota" proponents, but I think the process came out with at least a decent result. Better it's Hawks than some sunlight phenomenon, a cheap rendition of your own state's name, a name that was a past pro hockey team's name, or an overused term for Teddy Roosevelt's men who came from southwestern US states and had nothing to do with North Dakota aside from the fact Teddy lived in the opposite corner from where UND actually is. Long story short, I think they made a good choice, but most of all, it's about damn time.

With the exception of your first couple sentences, I couldn't disagree more. Fighting Hawks was the worst option of the 5 based on the parameters set up from the beginning. Had they not said from the beginning they wanted something original to them, you might be right that on the surface it's not a bad name.

The part I really hated about the entire process is with the exception of Roughriders, the options that had a chance to get picked were all based on "How can we stick it to the NCAA?" Here's the arguments I've heard personally
Nodaks - No one is actually going to say the University of North Dakota Nodaks, so it will remain unofficially Sioux.
Hawks - The big part is obviously the hawk logo with the feathers. Each person who told me they were voting for Hawks said it was because of that logo. I tried telling them that there would be nothing anywhere close to Native American resemblance on the logo, but they wanted nothing of it. They wanted to keep the Sioux history even though they couldn't keep the name. The other one I've seen but not heard anyone say is Hawks stands for How About We Keep Sioux. I think that's more of a after-the-fact result, but still.

Personally, I think there could have been some awesome Dogs logos made. If you focus on the weather event, yeah, it sounds terrible. You could have done quite a bit with the dogs portion but then you get back to the same problem with Hawks - it's not very original if you go the "adjective" dogs route.

End of the day, I'm glad part 1 is over.

EDIT - As for your comment about Roughriders not having anything to do with ND except for the SW corner. I'll try to remember that when Buffaloes are roaming around Fargo.

[BisonBacker]

I propose this as their new mascot/logo........

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21821&stc=1

[BluBengal07]

man, North Dakota continue to get joked... mascot: Mike Hawk; "Fighting Hawks", "Hawk Fight", "Peaking Hawks", "Hawks coming in strong", "Hawks seems undersized this year" "Hawks staying strong".... and it could keep going.

congrats though.

[Thumper 76]

I propose this as their new mascot/logo........

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21821&stc=1

This is glorious xlolx

[MTfan4life]

EDIT - As for your comment about Roughriders not having anything to do with ND except for the SW corner. I'll try to remember that when Buffaloes are roaming around Fargo.

xlolx I'd be glad to have you remind me about how buffalo have never been in this area.

[344Johnson]

Although, if Wikipedia is correct......why the hell didn't they just go back to being the University of North Dakota "Flickertails" which was apparently used up to the 1930's?

To put it nicely, they suffer from the same kind of complex that causes men to buy big trucks with a lift kit. Flickertails just aren't fierce enough.

[Thumper 76]

To put it nicely, they suffer from the same kind of complex that causes men to buy big trucks with a lift kit. Flickertails just aren't fierce enough.

Hey man don't be like that. Jacked up trucks are a safety feature. Fat chicks can't jump.

[BisonFan02]

Hey man don't be like that. Jacked up trucks are a safety feature. Fat chicks can't jump.

Is that why the SDSU cheerleaders are transported in a cattle trailer? :D (sorry....had to xlolx )

[REALBird]

Here's what continues to bake my noodle about the whole mascot issue. If it was really about retaining a connection to the Sioux name and logo, and if Fighting Hawks is really akin to "How About We Keep Sioux", and you don't want to be the "Flippertails" again because your hockey base thinks "it's too similar" to those pesky Golden Gophers. That seems like a lot of insecurity and drama for a mascot, when THIS
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21831&stc=1

Is really just THIS

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21833&stc=1

But....hey, I don't have a dog in this race. If "originality" is what counts, all those WarHawks, RedHawks, Hawkeyes, Seahawks, and other birds of prey don't have to worry because UND has a "Fighting Hawk" (singular). It's just them against the world.

[Thumper 76]

Is that why the SDSU cheerleaders are transported in a cattle trailer? :D (sorry....had to xlolx )

Damnit. Put that one on a tee for ya.

[REALBird]

The SDSU logo is a bunny. Do you really have room to criticize our logo?

Yeah, but that Bunny has an attitude. That ramped up the credibility factor. He ain't running away from you, he's running toward the fray.
I guess when you guys get a logo it will make "Fighting Hawks" more than just words. Until then, your school is still in the conceptual phase. Tough Name, not visual imagery to back it up.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21836&stc=1

[REALBird]

To put it nicely, they suffer from the same kind of complex that causes men to buy big trucks with a lift kit. Flickertails just aren't fierce enough.

Seems to work for Goldy quite well........he ain't fierce, but damn it, he likes KISS! Plus when you don't call yourself a "ground squirrel" but instead call yourself a "Golden Gopher" hell it makes you sound cooler. UND just needed to make it work for them.


http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21837&stc=1

[F'N Hawks]

Here's what continues to bake my noodle about the whole mascot issue. If it was really about retaining a connection to the Sioux name and logo, and if Fighting Hawks is really akin to "How About We Keep Sioux", and you don't want to be the "Flippertails" again because your hockey base thinks "it's too similar" to those pesky Golden Gophers. That seems like a lot of insecurity and drama for a mascot, when THIS
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21831&stc=1

Is really just THIS

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21833&stc=1

But....hey, I don't have a dog in this race. If "originality" is what counts, all those WarHawks, RedHawks, Hawkeyes, Seahawks, and other birds of prey don't have to worry because UND has a "Fighting Hawk" (singular). It's just them against the world.

I believe one school had it before the other, hence, the use of it however they feel, as a secondary logo. Plus they are slight different so I don't think it matters.

[IBleedYellow]

http://www.inforum.com/news/3886449-dickinson-state-seeks-protect-hawks-following-unds-announcement

Oh baby.

[BisonFan02]

Damnit. Put that one on a tee for ya.

Yup..... xlolx :D

http://31.media.tumblr.com/c4219f2b08d3d767776611e3fbd0efc1/tumblr_n5chjodJHd1tse4ydo1_400.gif

[BisonFan02]

I believe one school had it before the other, hence, the use of it however they feel, as a secondary logo. Plus they are slight different so I don't think it matters.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW_Rduet230

[BisonBacker]

http://www.inforum.com/news/3886449-dickinson-state-seeks-protect-hawks-following-unds-announcement

Oh baby.

I can see where it would be an issue considering they both play at the same level :D

[OSBF]

Seems to me a lot of them there UND "fans" aren't Realfans

How dare they take issue with ANYTHING that the athletic administration decides to do

Most of them must just be pretending to be UND "fans"

xpopcornx

[UNDColorado]

Yeah, but that Bunny has an attitude. That ramped up the credibility factor. He ain't running away from you, he's running toward the fray.
I guess when you guys get a logo it will make "Fighting Hawks" more than just words. Until then, your school is still in the conceptual phase. Tough Name, not visual imagery to back it up.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21836&stc=1

Look, I am not a fan of the fighting hawks nickname. At the same time we have no clue what the logo will look like so that is why I think it is a bit odd that jack rabbit fans are ribbing it so much. The liklihood of it being a crappy is high but I am holding out hope that they don't screw this up too. Also, hawks eat rabbits so there's that lol.

[NoCoDanny]

It only took 11 years to come up with the most bland, unimaginative name possible...

[Thumper 76]

How funny would it be if the make it a hawk version of the fighting Irish mascot, fists in the are like a drunk brawler xlolx

[Laker]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12243132_10101611174176125_4132971281535669014_n.j pg?oh=520fd7482465fcb4c6969afaf4eb2b4a&oe=56EFC04F

[Casey_Orourke]

As of Fall 2009, we retired the "Westerwinds" nickname for our women's teams and all athletics are now unified under the "Leathernecks" name.
Also, they're not "Lady Leathernecks" or "Leatherneckettes" or anything like that. All athletes, men and women, are "Leathernecks".

All marines are leathernecks

[SDFS]

Here's what continues to bake my noodle about the whole mascot issue. If it was really about retaining a connection to the Sioux name and logo, and if Fighting Hawks is really akin to "How About We Keep Sioux", and you don't want to be the "Flippertails" again because your hockey base thinks "it's too similar" to those pesky Golden Gophers. That seems like a lot of insecurity and drama for a mascot, when THIS
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21831&stc=1

Is really just THIS

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21833&stc=1

But....hey, I don't have a dog in this race. If "originality" is what counts, all those WarHawks, RedHawks, Hawkeyes, Seahawks, and other birds of prey don't have to worry because UND has a "Fighting Hawk" (singular). It's just them against the world.

You do realize that UND has documented proof of using the interlocking ND first - the Irish were the first to copyright. I would say that the Fighting Sioux was unique and original. But, I am at a loss for words to try and defend the "angry bird". I can only say this is what you get when you put a Berkeley Grad/the NCAA and the PC crowd together. They won - I guess.

[344Johnson]

To put it nicely, they suffer from the same kind of complex that causes men to buy big trucks with a lift kit. Flickertails just aren't fierce enough.


Also, hawks eat rabbits so there's that lol.

Prime example of my post above. Though i think he is doing it in jest.

[REALBird]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12243132_10101611174176125_4132971281535669014_n.j pg?oh=520fd7482465fcb4c6969afaf4eb2b4a&oe=56EFC04F

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Classic!

[UNDColorado]

Prime example of my post above. Though i think he is doing it in jest.

Not exactly, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

[BisonFan02]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mattfern/unauthorized-the-story-of-the-fighting-sioux?ref=nav_search

xlmaox

[Professor Chaos]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mattfern/unauthorized-the-story-of-the-fighting-sioux?ref=nav_search

xlmaox
My God! I think I saw Marilyn Hagerty and Rob Port in the promo! Talk about a star-studded cast!

[BisonBacker]

I just threw up in my mouth

[OSBF]

Neg Rep? Really dude, SERIOUSLY Grow the hell up

Did Jesus teach you to use words like that? I thought you claimed to be a god fearing Christian man?

If you want a war, a war you shall have

You're relatively new, let me explain to you how this goes down

1)Neg repping is generally frowned on and is considered bush-league
2)If you decide to neg-rep somebody, ALWAYS check their rep power first
3)If you go after somebody with big rep power, be prepared to have what little rep you have vanish

I can, in very short order, give you so many red chicklets you'll swear you're in an Amsterdam whore house

Just grow the hell up and stop acting like a 12 year old little girl

[BisonFan02]

Neg Rep? Really dude, SERIOUSLY Grow the hell up

Did Jesus teach you to use words like that? I thought you claimed to be a god fearing Christian man?

If you want a war, a war you shall have

You're relatively new, let me explain to you how this goes down

1)Neg repping is generally frowned on and is considered bush-league
2)If you decide to neg-rep somebody, ALWAYS check their rep power first
3)If you go after somebody with big rep power, be prepared to have what little rep you have vanish

I can, in very short order, give you so many red chicklets you'll swear you're in an Amsterdam whore house

Just grow the hell up and stop acting like a 12 year old little girl

Who done did it? :D. I gots me some rep power..... xnodx

[PantherRob82]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12243132_10101611174176125_4132971281535669014_n.j pg?oh=520fd7482465fcb4c6969afaf4eb2b4a&oe=56EFC04F


Who done did it? :D. I gots me some rep power..... xnodx

There's about to be some street justice.

[dewey]

Who done did it? :D. I gots me some rep power..... xnodx

Me too:-)

Dewey

[dewey]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12243132_10101611174176125_4132971281535669014_n.j pg?oh=520fd7482465fcb4c6969afaf4eb2b4a&oe=56EFC04F



LOL!!! Mask or no mask they still and always will suck!

Dewey

[NDB]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mattfern/unauthorized-the-story-of-the-fighting-sioux?ref=nav_search

xlmaox


Why are my tax dollars not paying for this!!!

[OSBF]

Who done did it? :D. I gots me some rep power..... xnodx

The dude STALKS me across message boards. I mean its like he's a creepy ex-girlfriend or something.

EVERYWHERE I go, there he is. I've just had it, the childish BS has to stop.

I could send 3-4 PM's and if he was on this board another 100 yrs he'd never earn a single green light back

[UNDBIZ]

Seems to me a lot of them there UND "fans" aren't Realfans

How dare they take issue with ANYTHING that the athletic administration decides to do

Most of them must just be pretending to be UND "fans"

xpopcornx

Huh?


Neg Rep? Really dude, SERIOUSLY Grow the hell up

Did Jesus teach you to use words like that? I thought you claimed to be a god fearing Christian man?

If you want a war, a war you shall have

You're relatively new, let me explain to you how this goes down

1)Neg repping is generally frowned on and is considered bush-league
2)If you decide to neg-rep somebody, ALWAYS check their rep power first
3)If you go after somebody with big rep power, be prepared to have what little rep you have vanish

I can, in very short order, give you so many red chicklets you'll swear you're in an Amsterdam whore house

Just grow the hell up and stop acting like a 12 year old little girl

Who are you talking about? If you're not going to say, then this probably should've been a PM.

[OSBF]

Huh?



Who are you talking about? If you're not going to say, then this probably should've been a PM.

long long long long story

Those that need to know, know

PM's work fine with reasonable, intelligent people

When you're forced to deal with people that have the intellect of a pre-teen little girl, well, lets just say ya do whatcha gotta do

[OSBF]

Me too:-)

Dewey

Been meaning to ask, what's the story with that bird?

Eastern? How big? When?

[Bisonoline]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12243132_10101611174176125_4132971281535669014_n.j pg?oh=520fd7482465fcb4c6969afaf4eb2b4a&oe=56EFC04F

Nicely played.

[SDFS]

F'hawk you guys need to up your game.... hell most UND fans are ripping this ****ty nickname to shreds compared to you guys.

[BisonFan02]

F'hawk you guys need to up your game.... hell most UND fans are ripping this ****ty nickname to shreds compared to guys.

St. Cloud State called you guys the Redhawks tonight....think they about nailed it. :D

[TheRevSFA]

They need to partner with this guy...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HL3MxAH-kDI

[FCSwatcher]

St. Cloud State called you guys the Redhawks tonight....think they about nailed it. :D

Hmm, a closet UND hockey fan, I see


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BisonFan02]

Hmm, a closet UND hockey fan, I see


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No dice...the picture ended up in my Facebook feed from a friend. xlolx

[SDFS]

St. Cloud State called you guys the Redhawks tonight....think they about nailed it. :D

Please consider the source... it's SCSU - they thought it was a northern league baseball game. It's a good thing that F'hawk is such a unique name to North Dakota. It won't get confused with anyone else.

[Bisonoline]

F'hawk you guys need to up your game.... hell most UND fans are ripping this ****ty nickname to shreds compared to you guys.

No game needed for you guys. You do it to yourselves on a continuing basis. All we have to do is just sit back, drink a cold one and watch the ####show.
Whats it been? 10 years and the hits keep on rolling.xlolx

[bertram]

http://i.imgur.com/KZQYzJD.png

[BisonTru]

F'hawk you guys need to up your game.... hell most UND fans are ripping this ****ty nickname to shreds compared to you guys.

I think I speak for most outsiders, we're fawking tired. It's been ten fawking years. We're just happy you picked a fawking nickname.

[Bisonoline]

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r202/plnwtf/cid_image003_jpg01D12797.jpg (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/plnwtf/media/cid_image003_jpg01D12797.jpg.html)

[underdawg]

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r202/plnwtf/cid_image003_jpg01D12797.jpg (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/plnwtf/media/cid_image003_jpg01D12797.jpg.html)


Ha--you guys are cruel!

[Boogs]

The nickname should have been the Razorbacks instead of Fighting Hawks.

The fans could yell 'sooooooooeeeey' (pig call) which would be the same as 'Sioux-eeeee'. No one would be offended and the Sioux tradition could be maintained.

[BisonFan02]

The nickname should have been the Razorbacks instead of Fighting Hawks.

The fans could yell 'sooooooooeeeey' (pig call) which would be the same as 'Sioux-eeeee'. No one would be offended and the Sioux tradition could be maintained.

Have no fear....nothing has changed. That "tradition" is still very much maintained.

[344Johnson]

Have no fear....nothing has changed. That "tradition" is still very much maintained.

THE SIOUX WILL NEVER BE SILENCED AND WE WILL NEVER STOP HONORING OUR NATIVE HERITAGE. SIOUX YEAH YEAH BEST AND MOST RECOGNIZABLE LOGO IN THE WORLD

[BisonFan02]

THE SIOUX WILL NEVER BE SILENCED AND WE WILL NEVER STOP HONORING OUR NATIVE HERITAGE. SIOUX YEAH YEAH BEST AND MOST RECOGNIZABLE LOGO IN THE WORLD

uh huh.... xlolx

[POD Knows]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22309&stc=1

I am glad somebody kept this thread alive. This is still, hands down, the logo that UND needs to go with. A proud bird, looking westward, interlocking ND,and it will also pay homage to their sugar daddy, Ralph Englestad, rest in piece, known Nazi enthusiast and all around life of the party. I shouldn't make fun of deceased people but this is just to easy.

[F'N Hawks]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22309&stc=1

I am glad somebody kept this thread alive. This is still, hands down, the logo that UND needs to go with. A proud bird, looking westward, interlocking ND,and it will also pay homage to their sugar daddy, Ralph Englestad, rest in piece, known Nazi enthusiast and all around life of the party. I shouldn't make fun of deceased people but this is just to easy.

Cool.

[BisonFan02]

Cool.

Yeah.

[BisonFan02]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Engelstad

Probably ancient history, but for those not "in the know", good ol Mr. Engelstad was an interesting character. xlolx

[F'N Hawks]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Engelstad

Probably ancient history, but for those not "in the know", good ol Mr. Engelstad was an interesting character. xlolx

Cool.

[IBleedYellow]

Cool.

It's April first, and these are actually facts. Not a joke.

Ya'll picked a terrible day for this.

[UNHWildcat18]

Still feel bad they had to change their name in the first place. Hope the new logo looks great.

[BisonFan02]

Still feel bad they had to change their name in the first place. Hope the new logo looks great.

It should be noted, I don't think they should have to change their name at all. The only gripe I have is with how its been handled all around.

- - - Updated - - -


Cool.

......yah.

[Hammerhead]

Meet the F'hawkers. :)

https://thesocaleediary.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/meet-the-fockers.jpg

[UNHWildcat18]

It should be noted, I don't think they should have to change their name at all. The only gripe I have is with how its been handled all around.

- - - Updated - - -



......yah.

I absolutely agree I think it's ****ing ludicrous that they had to change it. I love that it's white people going(in some panzy drawn out voice) "oh well that's derogatory and offensive, we need to change that regardless if there is no opposition towards it from the people who can actually claim offense to it" I bet in a state wide vote North Dakota residents Indian and non Indian would both vote to have kept it.

[POD Knows]

I absolutely agree I think it's ****ing ludicrous that they had to change it. I love that it's white people going(in some panzy drawn out voice) "oh well that's derogatory and offensive, we need to change that regardless if there is no opposition towards it from the people who can actually claim offense to it" I bet in a state wide vote North Dakota residents Indian and non Indian would both vote to have kept it.


Great brand, great logo, but they messed it up. PC and liberal Democrat BS run wild

[POD Knows]

Cool.

It is cool, so are you on board with this awesome logo? I doubt it, because when somebody replies cool, it is generally sardonic

[Boogs]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22309&stc=1

I am glad somebody kept this thread alive. This is still, hands down, the logo that UND needs to go with. A proud bird, looking westward, interlocking ND,and it will also pay homage to their sugar daddy, Ralph Englestad, rest in piece, known Nazi enthusiast and all around life of the party. I shouldn't make fun of deceased people but this is just to easy.

This is going to sound...well...kind of stupid. Where did you find that particular logo?

It definitely looks like the Nazi party logo. If that logo you posted is in fact, true. Then what the heck was the university board thinking?! I saw the Nazi logo immediately.

Please tell me you made that for joking purposes. xeyebrowx

[BisonFan02]

This is going to sound...well...kind of stupid. Where did you find that particular logo?

It definitely looks like the Nazi party logo. If that logo you posted is in fact, true. Then what the heck was the university board thinking?! I saw the Nazi logo immediately.

Please tell me you made that for joking purposes. xeyebrowx

See the above post about Mr. Englestad. I think it made its first appearance on SiouxSports.com as a joke. I don't remember where I saw it first though, but it is obviously a joke and not tied to the university.

[Boogs]

See the above post about Mr. Englestad. I think it made its first appearance on SiouxSports.com as a joke. I don't remember where I saw it first though, but it is obviously a joke and not tied to the university.

That's a relief. Thanks for the info.

[Bisonator]

I absolutely agree I think it's ****ing ludicrous that they had to change it. I love that it's white people going(in some panzy drawn out voice) "oh well that's derogatory and offensive, we need to change that regardless if there is no opposition towards it from the people who can actually claim offense to it" I bet in a state wide vote North Dakota residents Indian and non Indian would both vote to have kept it.
You really need to do some research. It wasn't "some white people" protesting for the name change. Yes, I'm sure the majority of ND's would have voted to keep the name. UND handled it poorly from the beginning (I'm talking way before the NCAA got involved, like 50 years ago) and that continues to be a major issue.

[BisonFan02]

You really need to do some research. It wasn't "some white people" protesting for the name change. Yes, I'm sure the majority of ND's would have voted to keep the name. UND handled it poorly from the beginning (I'm talking way before the NCAA got involved, like 50 years ago) and that continues to be a major issue.

UND fans will call "BS", but I believe Hammersmith at one time put together a pretty good "events timeline" that kinda spells out the highlights. Anyone got the bat signal to summon him? xnodx

[POD Knows]

This is going to sound...well...kind of stupid. Where did you find that particular logo?

It definitely looks like the Nazi party logo. If that logo you posted is in fact, true. Then what the heck was the university board thinking?! I saw the Nazi logo immediately.

Please tell me you made that for joking purposes. xeyebrowx

It is a Nazi party logo. Some totally awesome individual removed the Swastika from the figure, inserted the interlocking ND, colored it Kelly Green and put it out there. The guy that dumped $100,000,000 into a stupid hockey rink used to have parties where he dressed up like a Nazi, he also collected Third Reich stuff. This is real, Sioux Fans, fire away.

- - - Updated - - -

[Thumper 76]

It is a Nazi party logo. Some totally awesome individual removed the Swastika from the figure, inserted the interlocking ND, colored it Kelly Green and put it out there. The guy that dumped $100,000,000 into a stupid hockey rink used to have parties where he dressed up like a Nazi, he also collected Third Reich stuff. This is real, Sioux Fans, fire away.

- - - Updated - - -

As an outsider to this debate, as fun as it is to poke fun at UND fans about this, do you honestly think NDSU would have turned down that offer if it had been for a football field?

[POD Knows]

As an outsider to this debate, as fun as it is to poke fun at UND fans about this, do you honestly think NDSU would have turned down that offer if it had been for a football field?

Yea, we don't have any mafia connected, Nazi guys with tons of cash but I guess if one shows up and drops $100,000,000 and wants some logos, names and tributes, who gives a ****

[Bisonator]

UND fans will call "BS", but I believe Hammersmith at one time put together a pretty good "events timeline" that kinda spells out the highlights. Anyone got the bat signal to summon him? xnodx
Well here is one from the Herald. It conveniently leaves out much of the ugly details.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/fighting-sioux-timeline-debate

[taper]

I absolutely agree I think it's ****ing ludicrous that they had to change it. I love that it's white people going(in some panzy drawn out voice) "oh well that's derogatory and offensive, we need to change that regardless if there is no opposition towards it from the people who can actually claim offense to it" I bet in a state wide vote North Dakota residents Indian and non Indian would both vote to have kept it.

You know absolutely nothing about this issue.
http://results.sos.nd.gov/resultsSW.aspx?eid=33&text=BQ&type=SW&map=CTY
ND did have a statewide vote on keeping the name in 2012. It lost 2-1. EVERY SINGLE COUNTY voted to drop it, including Grand Forks county, Sioux county(home of Standing Rock Sioux reservation), and the 5 counties containing Spirit Lake Sioux reservation.

Here's a list of tribes and human rights organizations around the nation that have passed resolutions opposing UND's Fighting Sioux nickname:
Spirit Lake Sioux
Standing Rock Sioux
Crow Creek Sioux
Rosebud Sioux
Sissteon/Wahpeton Sioux
Yankton Sioux
Oglala Sioux
Cheyenne River Sioux
Three Afflliated Tribes
Turtle Mountain Chippewa
National Congress of American Indians
NCAAP
BRIDGES/SOAR(UND student organization)
UND student senate
UND faculty senate

[Hammersmith]

See the above post about Mr. Englestad. I think it made its first appearance on SiouxSports.com as a joke. I don't remember where I saw it first though, but it is obviously a joke and not tied to the university.

On the other hand, there really is a concession stand at the Ralph called Eagle's Nest. That's not a joke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kehlsteinhaus
http://theralph.s3.amazonaws.com/doc/Concessions_map13.pdf (behind section 308)

[UNHWildcat18]

You know absolutely nothing about this issue.
http://results.sos.nd.gov/resultsSW.aspx?eid=33&text=BQ&type=SW&map=CTY
ND did have a statewide vote on keeping the name in 2012. It lost 2-1. EVERY SINGLE COUNTY voted to drop it, including Grand Forks county, Sioux county(home of Standing Rock Sioux reservation), and the 5 counties containing Spirit Lake Sioux reservation.

Here's a list of tribes and human rights organizations around the nation that have passed resolutions opposing UND's Fighting Sioux nickname:
Spirit Lake Sioux
Standing Rock Sioux
Crow Creek Sioux
Rosebud Sioux
Sissteon/Wahpeton Sioux
Yankton Sioux
Oglala Sioux
Cheyenne River Sioux
Three Afflliated Tribes
Turtle Mountain Chippewa
National Congress of American Indians
NCAAP
BRIDGES/SOAR(UND student organization)
UND student senate
UND faculty senate

Well that's that then, I thought it was just the NCAA that brought it up to force the change. The fighting Sioux are one of the most famous Indian tribes in American history. And UND athletics has represented that history to an extent. I don't see what is so offensive about it I mean I get that it's kids that aren't Native American wearing the jerseys and dressing up like Indians for athletic events, why is that so bothersome? Do native Americans go to these games or see this anywhere besides social media? Also not just about UND but every school that's dealt with PC issues all over the country from middle school to college

[Hammersmith]

Well that's that then, I thought it was just the NCAA that brought it up to force the change. The fighting Sioux are one of the most famous Indian tribes in American history. And UND athletics has represented that history to an extent. I don't see what is so offensive about it I mean I get that it's kids that aren't Native American wearing the jerseys and dressing up like Indians for athletic events, why is that so bothersome? Do native Americans go to these games or see this anywhere besides social media? Also not just about UND but every school that's dealt with PC issues all over the country from middle school to college

The fundamental question is if a distinct ethnic/cultural group has the (moral) right to control the usage of their own name and likeness or not. If you accept the premise that they do have that right, then the NCAA's actions are legitimate. If you believe they don't, then the NCAA is just the PC police. That's really what it boils down to.

The vast majority of mascots/nicknames can be broken down into just a few groups.
1. Abstract concepts: Stanford Cardinal, Harvard Crimson, St Louis CC Fury
2. Inanimate objects/phenomena: Miami Hurricanes, Ursaline Arrows, Brooklyn Bridges
3. Animals: examples aplenty
4. Occupations/indistinct cultural group: WIU Leathernecks, NAU Lumberjacks, NKU Norse
5. Extinct, distinct cultural group: USC Trojans, Michigan State Spartans, San Diego State Aztecs
6. Extant, distinct cultural group: Florida Seminoles, Utah Utes, Notre Dame Fighting Irish, Penn Quakers

It's only the last group that creates problems. When considering an example from this group, ask yourself a couple questions. First, did the cultural group found or help found the college and play a major leadership role? In other words, look at the list of presidents from that college. Do members of that cultural group appear frequently? Is a significant percentage of students and faculty also members of that cultural group? If the answers to these questions is no, you're on shaky ethical ground.

The next major question, if the answer to the previous questions was no, is if the cultural group in question has given its blessing/permission to use their likeness. If yes, this permission should be given in a very clear way. It should also be renewed from time to time.

When discussing the issue of the UND Fighting Sioux, the other UND gets brought up quite a bit. People ask why the Fighting Sioux is bad, but the Fighting Irish is okay. Especially considering the leprechaun mascot. Well, look at the history of Notre Dame. Have they had several Irish presidents? Check. Have they had a significant number of Irish faculty? Pretty sure that's a check. Have they had a significant percentage of Irish students? Yep. (Of course I'm speaking of Irish ancestors in these cases, not Irish immigrants straight off the boat.)

In contrast, let's look at UND. Has UND ever had a Sioux president? Nope. Ever had Sioux faculty? A tiny handful over the years. (Count all of them on two hands?) A significant number of Sioux students? During the best years, maybe 1% of the overall student body? For large portions of UND's history, between 0.0% and 0.5%. The situations between the UNDs are really quite different.


Again, the arguments above only work if you accept the basic premise that an extant(still living) cultural group has some right to its own identity. If you don't accept that premise, then the arguments are meaningless. I'm not trying to convince anyone here, just laying out some of the rationale behind the decisions.

[BisonFan02]

On the other hand, there really is a concession stand at the Ralph called Eagle's Nest. That's not a joke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kehlsteinhaus
http://theralph.s3.amazonaws.com/doc/Concessions_map13.pdf (behind section 308)

To be fair....the "Eagles Nest" is probably after Ed Belfour....but it is a terrible coincidence that may have been a good excuse. xlolx

[Hammersmith]

UND fans will call "BS", but I believe Hammersmith at one time put together a pretty good "events timeline" that kinda spells out the highlights. Anyone got the bat signal to summon him? xnodx

Sorry, if I did write one, it was a long time ago and I didn't save it. I'd have to redo it from scratch. Don't really have the time. Sorry.

[BisonFan02]

Sorry, if I did write one, it was a long time ago and I didn't save it. I'd have to redo it from scratch. Don't really have the time. Sorry.

Gotchya...I know I've seen one somewhere, and I figured it might have been you...no idea for certain though.

[POD Knows]

To be fair....the "Eagles Nest" is probably after Ed Belfour....but it is a terrible coincidence that may have been a good excuse. xlolx

Nah, I like the Nazi angle better, more believable.

Their fan board is SS, coincidence, I think not

[uni88]

The fundamental question is if a distinct ethnic/cultural group has the (moral) right to control the usage of their own name and likeness or not. If you accept the premise that they do have that right, then the NCAA's actions are legitimate. If you believe they don't, then the NCAA is just the PC police. That's really what it boils down to.

The vast majority of mascots/nicknames can be broken down into just a few groups.
1. Abstract concepts: Stanford Cardinal, Harvard Crimson, St Louis CC Fury
2. Inanimate objects/phenomena: Miami Hurricanes, Ursaline Arrows, Brooklyn Bridges
3. Animals: examples aplenty
4. Occupations/indistinct cultural group: WIU Leathernecks, NAU Lumberjacks, NKU Norse
5. Extinct, distinct cultural group: USC Trojans, Michigan State Spartans, San Diego State Aztecs
6. Extant, distinct cultural group: Florida Seminoles, Utah Utes, Notre Dame Fighting Irish, Penn Quakers

It's only the last group that creates problems. When considering an example from this group, ask yourself a couple questions. First, did the cultural group found or help found the college and play a major leadership role? In other words, look at the list of presidents from that college. Do members of that cultural group appear frequently? Is a significant percentage of students and faculty also members of that cultural group? If the answers to these questions is no, you're on shaky ethical ground.

The next major question, if the answer to the previous questions was no, is if the cultural group in question has given its blessing/permission to use their likeness. If yes, this permission should be given in a very clear way. It should also be renewed from time to time.

When discussing the issue of the UND Fighting Sioux, the other UND gets brought up quite a bit. People ask why the Fighting Sioux is bad, but the Fighting Irish is okay. Especially considering the leprechaun mascot. Well, look at the history of Notre Dame. Have they had several Irish presidents? Check. Have they had a significant number of Irish faculty? Pretty sure that's a check. Have they had a significant percentage of Irish students? Yep. (Of course I'm speaking of Irish ancestors in these cases, not Irish immigrants straight off the boat.)

In contrast, let's look at UND. Has UND ever had a Sioux president? Nope. Ever had Sioux faculty? A tiny handful over the years. (Count all of them on two hands?) A significant number of Sioux students? During the best years, maybe 1% of the overall student body? For large portions of UND's history, between 0.0% and 0.5%. The situations between the UNDs are really quite different.


Again, the arguments above only work if you accept the basic premise that an extant(still living) cultural group has some right to its own identity. If you don't accept that premise, then the arguments are meaningless. I'm not trying to convince anyone here, just laying out some of the rationale behind the decisions.
Nice summary but I disagree or feel the need to provide additional info on a couple of points.

#4 - 4. Occupations/indistinct cultural group should be broken into 2 groups. Occupations and "indistinct" cultural groups are very different and should not be lumped together.

Also on #4, and to play devil's advocate, who is to say that I as someone who is 75% Scandinavian (50% Norwegian and 25% Danish) can't take offense at Norse, Norsemen, Vikings, etc.? Or a Swedish person at the Bethany Swedes? What about Dutchmen, Scots, Highlanders, etc.? It is something of an apples to oranges argument but cannot just be ignored.

On #6, are Spartans extinct? Doesn't a city called Sparta still exist in Greece?

Also on #6, Notre Dame was founded by French Priest and given a French name which is also the name of a famous cathedral in Paris. Historically it is a French Catholic school regardless of whether it has had Irish leaders during it's long history.

I would agree that UND has botched this whole process. IMO, the key to getting the approval of a tribal group is to include them in the process and to use the mascot to help educate fans and the general public about the group's history & culture. The mascot should not mock or be a parody of the culture but should be authentic (clothing, dance, etc. should be accurate).

Here is a good poster that breaks down collegiate mascots
https://www.popchartlab.com/products/the-chart-of-collegiate-sports-teams

[Hammersmith]

Nice summary but I disagree or feel the need to provide additional info on a couple of points.

#4 - 4. Occupations/indistinct cultural group should be broken into 2 groups. Occupations and "indistinct" cultural groups are very different and should not be lumped together.

Also on #4, and to play devil's advocate, who is to say that I as someone who is 75% Scandinavian (50% Norwegian and 25% Danish) can't take offense at Norse, Norsemen, Vikings, etc.? Or a Swedish person at the Bethany Swedes? What about Dutchmen, Scots, Highlanders, etc.? It is something of an apples to oranges argument but cannot just be ignored.

On #6, are Spartans extinct? Doesn't a city called Sparta still exist in Greece?

Also on #6, Notre Dame was founded by French Priest and given a French name which is also the name of a famous cathedral in Paris. Historically it is a French Catholic school regardless of whether it has had Irish leaders during it's long history.

I would agree that UND has botched this whole process. IMO, the key to getting the approval of a tribal group is to include them in the process and to use the mascot to help educate fans and the general public about the group's history & culture. The mascot should not mock or be a parody of the culture but should be authentic (clothing, dance, etc. should be accurate).

Here is a good poster that breaks down collegiate mascots
https://www.popchartlab.com/products/the-chart-of-collegiate-sports-teams


I think we'll agree to disagree on #4. Your argument has merit, and I've seriously considered it in the past, but I still think occupations and indistinct cultural groups have enough in common to lump them together. It's less about the two groups being the same, as treating them the same; i.e. no protected status. I've attempted to explain my reasoning in the past, but I can't do it concisely. It works in my head, but not "on paper". Rather than type a giant wall of text, I'll just say I have my reasons and leave it at that.

Spartans: Does a city still exist? Yes. Are there descendants of the original Spartans still living? Yes. Do the Spartans as referenced by the groups who use them as mascots still exist as a people? No. The historical Spartan people existed for a window of time, but that window closed long ago. The people who currently live in Sparta are now members of the greater Greek people. The smaller distinction no longer exists. You may have individuals who still identify themselves as Spartans of old, but the unity of culture is gone.

Notre Dame may have been founded and named by a Frank, but it embraced the Irish starting with its third president, and I think it's safe to say the Irish Catholics in the US came to embrace the university just as much. In any case, by the time the nickname took hold between 1880-1920, a significant amount of the leadership, faculty and students were of Irish descent. In my mind at least, that gives them honest share of ownership of the moniker.


And there seems to be someone missing on that poster. ;)

[Shockerman]

UND and the state completely screwed the pooch here. The obvious choice was Rough Rider after the state motto a la;

Kansas Jayhawks
Nebraska Cornhuskers
Wisconsin Badgers
Oklahoma Sooners
Indiana Hoosiers

It would have been unique and fitting for a flagship. Unfortunately, the pc crowd won out.

[BisonFan02]

UND and the state ompletely screwed the pooch here. The obvious choice was Rough Rider after the state motto a la;

Kansas Jayhawks
Nebraska Cornhuskers
Wisconsin Badgers
Oklahoma Sooners

It would have been unique

It wouldn't have even been unique in the city of Grand Forks. This whole process was a **** up by the Admins and stakeholders. That is how they end up as the "Fighting Hawks" until the next internal war (and that is if they ever really adopt that mascot....hockey under no circumstance ever will....new logo or not).

[SDFS]

In an amazing twist of fate - UND is somehow in compliance with the NCAA policy before NDSU. Which is even more amazing giving the number of NDSU fans that are "hostile and abusive" experts.

http://www.inforum.com/news/3955350-ndsu-president-wants-revision-school-song-troubling-cultural-references

The third verse of “The Yellow and the Green” (http://digitalhorizonsonline.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/ndsu-docs/id/397/show/146) includes the sentence, “Hushed upon the boundless prairies is the bison’s thund’ring tread, and the red man passes with him on his spoilers’ bounty fed.”

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

In an amazing twist of fact - UND is somehow in compliance with the NCAA policy before NDSU. Which is even more amazing giving the number of NDSU fans that are "hostile and abusive" experts.

http://www.inforum.com/news/3955350-ndsu-president-wants-revision-school-song-troubling-cultural-references

The third verse of “The Yellow and the Green” (http://digitalhorizonsonline.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/ndsu-docs/id/397/show/146) includes the sentence, “Hushed upon the boundless prairies is the bison’s thund’ring tread, and the red man passes with him on his spoilers’ bounty fed.”


At least NDSU will get it done efficiently unlike the cluster**ck in el forko grande....xcoffeex

[taper]

In an amazing twist of fact - UND is somehow in compliance with the NCAA policy before NDSU. Which is even more amazing giving the number of NDSU fans that are "hostile and abusive" experts.

http://www.inforum.com/news/3955350-ndsu-president-wants-revision-school-song-troubling-cultural-references

The third verse of “The Yellow and the Green” (http://digitalhorizonsonline.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/ndsu-docs/id/397/show/146) includes the sentence, “Hushed upon the boundless prairies is the bison’s thund’ring tread, and the red man passes with him on his spoilers’ bounty fed.”

NCAA compliance has nothing to do with this. When our president announced he wanted to drop this verse the response from alumni was overwhelming...meh. I doubt over 1% even knew there were multiple verses to the alma mater. Local media ran the story like it was some huge scandal, then quickly dropped it when they realized nobody cared if they remove a verse from something that's never used anyway.

[clenz]

NCAA compliance has nothing to do with this. When our president announced he wanted to drop this verse the response from alumni was overwhelming...meh. I doubt over 1% even knew there were multiple verses to the alma mater. Local media ran the story like it was some huge scandal, then quickly dropped it when they realized nobody cared if they remove a verse from something that's never used anyway.

Compliance is nearly the entirety of the start of the issue.

This all, more or less, started because of the NCAAs abusive and hostile list, which Sioux was on. The entire process was a result of that.

[clenz]

At least NDSU will get it done efficiently unlike the cluster**ck in el forko grande....xcoffeex

A bit of apples and oranges comparing the entire branding of a university to a verse of a song few knew existed

[taper]

Compliance is nearly the entirety of the start of the issue.

This all, more or less, started because of the NCAAs abusive and hostile list, which Sioux was on. The entire process was a result of that.

I meant the NCAA didn't care about NDSU's song. Another poster said NDSU was not in NCAA compliance because of it, which is not true. UND's troubles were most definitely NCAA related.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

A bit of apples and oranges comparing the entire branding of a university to a verse of a song few knew existed

I know it is, but this will not turn into a total cluster**ck!

[uni88]

I think we'll agree to disagree on #4. Your argument has merit, and I've seriously considered it in the past, but I still think occupations and indistinct cultural groups have enough in common to lump them together. It's less about the two groups being the same, as treating them the same; i.e. no protected status. I've attempted to explain my reasoning in the past, but I can't do it concisely. It works in my head, but not "on paper". Rather than type a giant wall of text, I'll just say I have my reasons and leave it at that.

And there seems to be someone missing on that poster. ;)

I can understand possible arguments. It's basically that's its ok to caricature aggressors but not victims/oppressed thus no protected status for European mascots.

I'll buy your argument on Spartans. On Notre Dame, I find it ironic that a university founded by a French priest and named after a French cathedral has mascot taken from Irish pagan mythology. But it in the end it doesn't really matter.

Who is missing? I'm pretty sure the poster was created in the timeframe when ND didn't have a mascot.

[Hammersmith]

I can understand possible arguments. It's basically that's its ok to caricature aggressors but not victims/oppressed thus no protected status for European mascots.

I'll buy your argument on Spartans. On Notre Dame, I find it ironic that a university founded by a French priest and named after a French cathedral has mascot taken from Irish pagan mythology. But it in the end it doesn't really matter.

Who is missing? I'm pretty sure the poster was created in the timeframe when ND didn't have a mascot.

I look it more like people versus race. Peoples are smaller groups(almost families/clans) that have almost everything in common. Native tribes, Spartans, Visigoths, etc. Races are much more broad. Germans, Norse, Franks. Then there are the groups that fall in between. Celts, Scots, Danes. I definitely think members of the first group(if they're still around) should have the right to allow/deny outsiders the use of their name/likeness. I definitely think the second group should not. I don't know about the group in the middle. Glad I don't have to make that call.


It was UND I was referring to in the poster. If the poster was made when UND didn't have a mascot, I thought they should have been included in the 'Self Referential' category. It wouldn't have been a perfect fit, but it would have been close enough.

[clenz]

Awesome. My 100% sarcastic mini tweet fest about NDSU being racist has now been picked up and quoted by a large NDSU account

Tonight should be fun since we all know how well NDSU fans take jokes

[BisonFan02]

Awesome. My 100% sarcastic mini tweet fest about NDSU being racist has now been picked up and quoted by a large NDSU account

Tonight should be fun since we all know how well NDSU fans take jokes

Still don't care.... xlolx

[uni88]

I look it more like people versus race. Peoples are smaller groups(almost families/clans) that have almost everything in common. Native tribes, Spartans, Visigoths, etc. Races are much more broad. Germans, Norse, Franks. Then there are the groups that fall in between. Celts, Scots, Danes. I definitely think members of the first group(if they're still around) should have the right to allow/deny outsiders the use of their name/likeness. I definitely think the second group should not. I don't know about the group in the middle. Glad I don't have to make that call.

Interesting and reasonable breakdown. Couldn't one make an argument that the Sioux are more of a race or at least middle category since they are made up of a number of different tribes that covered a large geographic territory during their peak?

[SDFS]

I meant the NCAA didn't care about NDSU's song. Another poster said NDSU was not in NCAA compliance because of it, which is not true. UND's troubles were most definitely NCAA related.

Not so fast my friend....

"Additionally, the committee suggested that institutions should review their publications and written materials for hostile and abusive references and remove those depictions," It does not state only schools on the list. But, all schools had this responsibility. NDSU has clearly been out of compliance since Aug 5th 2005.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/PressArchive/2005/Announcements/NCAA%2BExecutive%2BCommittee%2BIssues%2BGuidelines %2Bfor%2BUse%2Bof%2BNative%2BAmerican%2BMascots%2B at%2BChampionship%2BEvents.html

I wonder how many times the school song was played at NDSU playoff games in the last several years. Events that it turns out that they shouldn't have even hosted. Ugh, I feel so violated..

[Twentysix]

Interesting and reasonable breakdown. Couldn't one make an argument that the Sioux are more of a race or at least middle category since they are made up of a number of different tribes that covered a large geographic territory during their peak?

They are a cultural group for sure, not a race though. It would be exactly akin to saying the German race (another collection of tribes that share a linguistic ancestry). I guess if that's what you want to do, you could do that. It doesn't work in any intellectual sense though.

[Twentysix]

Not so fast my friend....

"Additionally, the committee suggested that institutions should review their publications and written materials for hostile and abusive references and remove those depictions," It does not state only schools on the list. But, all schools had this responsibility. NDSU has clearly been out of compliance since Aug 5th 2005.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/PressArchive/2005/Announcements/NCAA%2BExecutive%2BCommittee%2BIssues%2BGuidelines %2Bfor%2BUse%2Bof%2BNative%2BAmerican%2BMascots%2B at%2BChampionship%2BEvents.html

I wonder how many times the school song was played at NDSU playoff games in the last several years. Events that it turns out that they shouldn't have even hosted. Ugh, I feel so violated..

Being that the song, when played in its modern format, only includes one verse, and it took a history professor's project to unveil that the alma mater even had more than one verse, you are desperately grasping at straws. But go on pretending everyone was screaming "redman" at football games like your university xsmhx.

[IBleedYellow]

Not so fast my friend....

"Additionally, the committee suggested that institutions should review their publications and written materials for hostile and abusive references and remove those depictions," It does not state only schools on the list. But, all schools had this responsibility. NDSU has clearly been out of compliance since Aug 5th 2005.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/PressArchive/2005/Announcements/NCAA%2BExecutive%2BCommittee%2BIssues%2BGuidelines %2Bfor%2BUse%2Bof%2BNative%2BAmerican%2BMascots%2B at%2BChampionship%2BEvents.html

I wonder how many times the school song was played at NDSU playoff games in the last several years. Events that it turns out that they shouldn't have even hosted. Ugh, I feel so violated..

We sing and play the first verse at every game. About 90% (completely made up stat, but I know a lot didn't know) of the University didn't even know that this verse existed.

[BisonFan02]

We sing and play the first verse at every game. About 90% (completely made up stat, but I know a lot didn't know) of the University didn't even know that this verse existed.

The horror..... xlolx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdASMmk_HU0


Ho! a cheer for Green and Yellow,Up with Yellow and the Green;They’re the shades that deck our prairiesFar and wide with glorious sheen,Fields of waving green in springtime,Golden yellow in the fall—How the great high-arching heavenLooks and laughs upon it all!

[clenz]

We sing and play the first verse at every game. About 90% (completely made up stat, but I know a lot didn't know) of the University didn't even know that this verse existed.
Ignorance isn't a defense when breaking the law.

[BisonFan02]

Ignorance isn't a defense when breaking the law.

What law AGS lawyer clenz? xlolx

[BisonFan02]

Awesome. My 100% sarcastic mini tweet fest about NDSU being racist has now been picked up and quoted by a large NDSU account

Tonight should be fun since we all know how well NDSU fans take jokes

By the way...I checked out your sarcastic tweet fest. It didn't go anywhere other than riling up lakes for a few minutes. xlolx

[IBleedYellow]

By the way...I checked out your sarcastic tweet fest. It didn't go anywhere other than riling up lakes for a few minutes. xlolx


Making Lakes grumpy literally just requires saying something negative about NDSU in any way. xcoffeex

[BisonFan02]

Making Lakes grumpy literally just requires saying something negative about NDSU in any way. xcoffeex

Pretty much....

[clenz]

By the way...I checked out your sarcastic tweet fest. It didn't go anywhere other than riling up lakes for a few minutes. xlolx
I got a few bites on it beyond that - thankfully not what I thought it would be.

That's lakes? Are you sure? That's reply was far to well typed to be him.

I also was able to draw NoDak out on that one.

[BisonFan02]

I got a few bites on it beyond that - thankfully not what I thought it would be.

That's lakes? Are you sure? That's reply was far to well typed to be him.

I also was able to draw NoDak out on that one.

@lakesbison

Not hard to find.... xlolx Grats on drawing out NoDak too though...really representative of the Bison fanbase. xthumbsupx D- on the trolling attempt there clenzy.

[BisonFan02]

Anyway....here's the full song. The section in bold is the only portion I ever have heard:


Ho! a cheer for Green and Yellow,Up with Yellow and the Green;They’re the shades that deck our prairiesFar and wide with glorious sheen,Fields of waving green in springtime,Golden yellow in the fall—How the great high-arching heavenLooks and laughs upon it all!Here in autumn throng the nations,Just to gather in the spoil,Throng on freight-cars from the cities,Some to feast and some to toil,Then the yellow grain flows eastwardAnd the yellow gold flows back;Barren cities boast their plentyAnd the prairies know no lack.Hushed upon the boundless prairiesIs the bison’s thund’ring tread,And the red man passes with himOn his spoilers’ bounty fed.But the Norse, the Celt and SaxonWith their herd increase, and findMid these fields of green and yellowPlenty e’en for all mankind.Ho! a cheer for Green and Yellow,Up with Yellow and the Green;They’re the shades that deck our prairiesFar and wide with glorious sheen,Fields of waving green in springtime,Golden yellow in the fall—How the great high-arching heavenLooks and laughs upon it all!

If the 3rd verse puts NDSU at odds with the NCAA (even though they are either getting rid of the verse or the whole song in its entirety), then UND needs to find an alternative home for their hockey program and tell the Englestad Family Foundation to find a semipro team to play in their facility. xlolx

[clenz]

@lakesbison

Not hard to find.... xlolx Grats on drawing out NoDak too though...really representative of the Bison fanbase. xthumbsupx D- on the trolling attempt there clenzy.
He has me blocked, so I can't see if he tweets me.

Send me a screen shot.

I was talking about BISONNATION.INFO

[clenz]

What law AGS lawyer clenz? xlolx
Doesn't matter.

Ignorance of a law/rule/code/etc... isn't a viable defense in any type of real court system - especially since the school knew it existed and there was a letter put out in 2005 telling schools to review all material.

[AmsterBison]

Making Lakes grumpy literally just requires saying something negative about NDSU in any way. xcoffeex

I don't picture Lakes as the grumpy type.

He only has two reactions to any piece of news though... doesn't have to be negative about NDSU - it could be something positive about another school or maybe just a random fact.

The first reaction is that whatever the news, it's a reason that the FCS sucks and demonstrates why NDSU needs to go FBS. Example: NDSU announces that they're going to be on ESPN, prime time, against Charleston Southern. Lakes' Reaction: This just shows the FCS is BS because we're playing Charleston Southern and not Michigan.

The second reaction is that whatever the news, it's a reason to invent a fact showing that NDSU and Lakesbison are awesome. Example: It was 65 degrees out today! Lakes' Reaction: That's nothing, the thermometer in the Bentley in which I was drinking Cristal said it was 135 degrees the day that NDSU destroyed Kansas State, but I didn't even break a sweat while partying with the 25,000 Bison fans who were there.

[BisonFan02]

Doesn't matter.

Ignorance of a law/rule/code/etc... isn't a viable defense in any type of real court system - especially since the school knew it existed and there was a letter put out in 2005 telling schools to review all material.

Like I said....what NCAA rule is NDSU breaking? Is NDSU at odds with the NCAA? Need me to go find some more NCAA rules that members are likely at odds with? xlolx

You're the AGS lawyer....give me your argument. :D

[clenz]

Like I said....what NCAA rule is NDSU breaking? Is NDSU at odds with the NCAA? Need me to go find some more NCAA rules that members are likely at odds with? xlolx

You're the AGS lawyer....give me your argument. :D
NDSU is currently outside the current standards of best policy and practice by the NCAA

"Additionally, the committee suggested that institutions should review their publications and written materials for hostile and abusive references and remove those depictions, which is the current policy of the NCAA National Office."

They've known about that issue for a decade plus now, and are only changing due to public pressure on it.

It's like when an athlete apologizes for breaking rules. They aren't sorry they did it. They are sorry they got caught.

NDSU could have fixed this 10 years ago in a 1 hour meeting of the board of trustees. Hell, it could have been resolved already since it came up...I mean, it's only one verse no even knew existed. Literally going "It's no longer there" shouldn't be too hard.

[BisonFan02]

NDSU is currently outside the current standards of best policy and practice by the NCAA

"Additionally, the committee suggested that institutions should review their publications and written materials for hostile and abusive references and remove those depictions, which is the current policy of the NCAA National Office."

They've known about that issue for a decade plus now, and are only changing due to public pressure on it.

It's like when an athlete apologizes for breaking rules. They aren't sorry they did it. They are sorry they got caught.

NDSU could have fixed this 10 years ago in a 1 hour meeting of the board of trustees. Hell, it could have been resolved already since it came up...I mean, it's only one verse no even knew existed. Literally going "It's no longer there" shouldn't be too hard.

What publications and written materials? I've never seen it used in athletic competition.

If the NCAA goes nuclear on their rules, it is an uphill climb. Didn't Portland St. have a bunch of Budweiser logos for their playoff game with you guys?

[clenz]

What publications and written materials? I've never seen it used in athletic competition.

If the NCAA goes nuclear on their rules, it is an uphill climb. Didn't Portland St. have a bunch of Budweiser logos for their playoff game with you guys?
It's your schools official song. It's a published material and is played at every sporting event. Just because you only sing the first verse doesn't mean others aren't signing the third.

[BisonFan02]

It's your schools official song. It's a published material and is played at every sporting event. Just because you only sing the first verse doesn't mean others aren't signing the third.

Incorrect. The marching band only plays it long enough for the first verse lyrics that are also displayed on the video boards in the dome....and I don't think many even sing that. xlolx

[clenz]

Incorrect. The marching band only plays it long enough for the first verse lyrics that are also displayed on the video boards in the dome....and I don't think many even sing that. xlolx
Still being published as the official school song...all verses.

You can spin this however you want, and you will because it's your school and you have the instinctive need to defend your school.

If it wasn't an issue your school president wouldn't be censoring and removing it from the website and trying to get rid of it.

I can only imagine what would happen if UND had references to the "red-man" in their school's official song.

[clenz]

The song, up until very recently, was printed in all verses on multiple places on NDSU's website and it still in print in the NDSU library and was published by NDSU

http://digitalhorizonsonline.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/ndsu-docs/id/397/show/146


If it wasn't printed/published elsewhere why would things like this come from the president


Bresciani is now ordering that all but the first verse be removed from NDSU websites and publications.
http://www.inforum.com/news/3955350-ndsu-president-wants-revision-school-song-troubling-cultural-references

Also, how the **** could the lyrics be posted/published and the president had no idea they existed?

Really?

[BisonFan02]

Still being published as the official school song...all verses.

You can spin this however you want, and you will because it's your school and you have the instinctive need to defend your school.

If it wasn't an issue your school president wouldn't be censoring and removing it from the website and trying to get rid of it.

I can only imagine what would happen if UND had references to the "red-man" in their school's official song.

That's wrong too... xlolx I went to that lil private school an hour west. :D

As for what would happen if UND had references, go find a post where I think UND needed to get rid of the original nickname. I made fun of their process and how much of a cluster**** it has been for decades. I don't have a PC bone in my body. I also understand the entire reason this has been an issue, outside of an administrative delete like NDSU Pres Bresciani is suggesting, is someone grasping for straws desperately trying to go "AH HA!" and say they **** don't stink.

I genuinely had no ****ing clue there was more than 1 stanza to the song (which is the alma mater...not the fight songs like "On Bison" and "We are the Pride").

I guess I will eagerly await the NCAA outrage....wanna have an avatar wager it never happens?

[BisonFan02]

The song, up until very recently, was printed in all verses on multiple places on NDSU's website and it still in print in the NDSU library and was published by NDSU

http://digitalhorizonsonline.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/ndsu-docs/id/397/show/146


If it wasn't printed/published elsewhere why would things like this come from the president



Also, how the **** could the lyrics be posted/published and the president had no idea they existed?

Really?

http://www.gobison.com/sports/2013/4/19/songs.aspx?tab=schoolsongs

[Hambone]

Clenz on the warpath is fun.

[clenz]

http://www.gobison.com/sports/2013/4/19/songs.aspx?tab=schoolsongs
Did you miss the quote where the president said he was having it pulled? I'll repost it..




Bresciani is now ordering that all but the first verse be removed from NDSU websites and publications.
[COLOR=#000000][I]http://www.inforum.com/news/3955350-ndsu-president-wants-revision-school-song-troubling-cultural-references

Once again, ignorance is never an excuse.

[344Johnson]

The second reaction is that whatever the news, it's a reason to invent a fact showing that NDSU and Lakesbison are awesome. Example: It was 65 degrees out today! Lakes' Reaction: That's nothing, the thermometer in the Bentley in which I was drinking Cristal said it was 135 degrees the day that NDSU destroyed Kansas State, but I didn't even break a sweat while partying with the 25,000 Bison fans who were there.


25,000? Try 35,000! We took over Manhattan!!!!1 Think how many more would have been there if we were FBS! Easily 50,000+!

[BisonFan02]

Clenz on the warpath is fun.

He's just being a ****ing idiot trying to troll Bison fans. xlolx

Maybe NDSU can just claim it is historical (like the obscure 1908 image he linked to) and not remove it....just not continue to use it...which they were not.

http://sandthroughthehourglass.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/26sioux_lg-798189.jpg

[clenz]

Clenz on the warpath is fun.
Oh, you keep your mouth shut less I turn back on how badly UND ****ed this whole thing up.xlolx

[344Johnson]

Clenz on the warpath is fun.

warpath, eh? You know who else used warpaths, NATIVES! :D

[BisonFan02]

Did you miss the quote where the president said he was having it pulled? I'll repost it..




Bresciani is now ordering that all but the first verse be removed from NDSU websites and publications.
[COLOR=#000000][I]http://www.inforum.com/news/3955350-ndsu-president-wants-revision-school-song-troubling-cultural-references

Once again, ignorance is never an excuse.

I've been to that link previously as well....its never been there...the recording linked wasn't redone either.

[clenz]

He's just being a ****ing idiot trying to troll Bison fans. xlolx

Maybe NDSU can just claim it is historical (like the obscure 1908 image he linked to) and not remove it....just not continue to use it...which they were not.

http://sandthroughthehourglass.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/26sioux_lg-798189.jpgSome NDSU clown tried to say UND still isn't in compliance because they sell Sioux items in Englested arena - I think that's where you're going with it.

UND has to sell Sioux memoriablia. I covered this already - maybe in this thread. Trademark/copyright laws require them to still use the image/logo to keep claim of it. Should they not use it they lose ownership of it and anyone can produce gear. You think UND fans have issues now? Wait until UND loses the legal ownership of it (which they won't).

The NCAA understands that and allows them to sell smaller "heritage" style things with the logo on it - bobble heads of former players, watches, etc... to maintain that ownership because the NCAA understands what would happen should that ownership go away.

[BisonFan02]

Some NDSU clown tried to say UND still isn't in compliance because they sell Sioux items in Englested arena - I think that's where you're going with it.

UND has to sell Sioux memoriablia. I covered this already - maybe in this thread. Trademark/copyright laws require them to still use the image/logo to keep claim of it. Should they not use it they lose ownership of it and anyone can produce gear. You think UND fans have issues now? Wait until UND loses the legal ownership of it (which they won't).

The NCAA understands that and allows them to sell smaller "heritage" style things with the logo on it - bobble heads of former players, watches, etc... to maintain that ownership because the NCAA understands what would happen should that ownership go away.

Its not. The entire Ralph Englestad Arena is a shrine to the previous logo/mascot, along with other banners and materials...none of which will be removed/renovated.

Like I said, zero ****s given by me about the mascot...just the hilarity of the process and the current state of affairs. Give the upcoming frozen four a watch and let me know if they've adopted a new name. xlolx

[clenz]

Its not. The entire Ralph Englestad Arena is a shrine to the previous logo/mascot, along with other banners and materials...none of which will be removed/renovated.

Like I said, zero ****s given by me about the mascot...just the hilarity of the process and the current state of affairs. Give the upcoming frozen four a watch and let me know if they've adopted a new name. xlolx
I've said this many times before - the fans don't matter. The school can't control them. It's why the NCAA is going to let UND sell enough heritage gear to keep hold of the official logo.

[BisonFan02]

I've said this many times before - the fans don't matter. The school can't control them. It's why the NCAA is going to let UND sell enough heritage gear to keep hold of the official logo.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/Fan%2BCode%2Bof%2BConduct.pdf

-Support his or her team, provided the support is in good taste and does not adversely impact the event experience of fellow spectators or negatively impact the game.


I don't agree with it, but the NCAA has their thoughts on what is "hostile and abusive". Its their event.....maybe they should make those fans turn their sweaters inside out? xlolx

Someone will have to clarify, but can the Ralph Englestad Arena host a NCAA event as is?

EDIT: Sorry hockey fans...not jerseys....sweaters. :D

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

The importance of school songs is very different from school to school. At the championship game Jacksonville state waving their pom poms were much louder with their school song because they apparently actually sing it. NDSU does not. Still embarrassing to have it in the school song though. Oh well moving on because no one really cares.

[IBleedYellow]

This whole thread can be summed up in one emoji.

xpopcornx

[BisonFan02]

This whole thread can be summed up in one emoji.

xpopcornx

I'm looking forward to the NCAA taking a "hard line" on their rules....should have a **** ton of new FCS football teams to watch soon. xlolx

[clenz]

The importance of school songs is very different from school to school. At the championship game Jacksonville state waving their pom poms were much louder with their school song because they apparently actually sing it. NDSU does not. Still embarrassing to have it in the school song though. Oh well moving on because no one really cares.
I'd de-emphasize my school song if it was racist as well...

[Thumper 76]

This whole thread can be summed up in one emoji.

xpopcornx

This thread has rapidly become my favorite offseason thread.

[BisonFan02]

This thread has rapidly become my favorite offseason thread.

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/05/really-animated-reaction-gif.gif

xlolx

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

I'd de-emphasize my school song if it was racist as well...

Here is a photo illustration of the last time the whole song was sang by a local frat. Maybe only readers of the Forum will get this..... Too soon?
http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2015/12/11/618f1388-86f0-4276-9926-222deae7b49f/cbsncadetsinkkkhoods475152640x360.jpg

[AmsterBison]

Here is a photo illustration of the last time the whole song was sang by a local frat. Maybe only readers of the Forum will get this..... Too soon?
http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2015/12/11/618f1388-86f0-4276-9926-222deae7b49f/cbsncadetsinkkkhoods475152640x360.jpg

Grand Forks Red River having another white out at a hockey game?

[IBleedYellow]

Grand Forks Red River having another white out at a hockey game?
Omg.

That's GOLD.

Context. http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/north-dakota-hs-investigating-fans-kkk-style-hoods-article-1.1271970

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[SDFS]

Grand Forks Red River having another white out at a hockey game?

Nice attempt at deflecting.... back to the topic at hand - do we think it is possible for NDSU to get in compliance in time for playoffs or is it already too late?

[SDFS]

Omg.

That's GOLD.

Context. http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/north-dakota-hs-investigating-fans-kkk-style-hoods-article-1.1271970

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

What people need to realize is that young kids not understand your implied meaning. My daughter a freshman in high schools just asked what wrong with dressing up like a ghost. They truly don't know.

[BisonFan02]

What people need to realize is that young kids not understand your implied meaning. My daughter a freshman in high schools just asked what wrong with dressing up like a ghost. They truly don't know.

That's a problem.... xlolx

[344Johnson]

What people need to realize is that young kids not understand your implied meaning. My daughter a freshman in high schools just asked what wrong with dressing up like a ghost. They truly don't know.

Ladyfriend went to Red River at the time. I'll have to ask her if they knew what they were doing.

[IBleedYellow]

What people need to realize is that young kids not understand your implied meaning. My daughter a freshman in high schools just asked what wrong with dressing up like a ghost. They truly don't know.
Then you clearly need to get your daughter out from under a rock...

Freshman doesn't know history of America? Especially the parts that we shouldn't repeat?

That's scary.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Thumper 76]

What people need to realize is that young kids not understand your implied meaning. My daughter a freshman in high schools just asked what wrong with dressing up like a ghost. They truly don't know.

I could see not realizing it in the moment because that wasn't their intent, but to not know after its brought up would be pretty alarming. Or at least to not have a reaction of, that's stupid, why would people think that, we would never try to support that.

[Boogs]

Here is a photo illustration of the last time the whole song was sang by a local frat. Maybe only readers of the Forum will get this..... Too soon?
http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/2015/12/11/618f1388-86f0-4276-9926-222deae7b49f/cbsncadetsinkkkhoods475152640x360.jpg

They look like 3rd grader and cheap Star Wars storm trooper costumes without the use of molded plastic for their helmets.

P.S. Seriously, how do you turn off Apple's new GPS/bowel status signature feature?!

Sent from my Mobile Apple Device while I was taking a crap at The Home Depot.

[Professor Chaos]

Apparently they need to have a mandatory viewing of Blazing Saddles at Grand Forks Red River High School for American history class...

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee227/robot-elf/blazing-saddles-white-women.gif

[BisonFan02]

Where did UND's favorite "White Knight" clenz go? Or did he get bored arguing a losing position? xlolx

[clenz]

Where did UND's favorite "White Knight" clenz go? Or did he get bored arguing a losing position? xlolx
What's losing?

Your favorite school has a racist school song, as of now, and hasn't actually fixed it. Just "made it disappear from public view".

Hidden racism, the best kind.

[BisonFan02]

What's losing?

Your favorite school has a racist school song, as of now, and hasn't actually fixed it. Just "made it disappear from public view".

Hidden racism, the best kind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdASMmk_HU0

[clenz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdASMmk_HU0
Exactly.

Hidden racism.

Don't get rid of the racism, just hide it from public view.

[BisonFan02]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajFNKvP6T3M

[BisonFan02]

Exactly.

Hidden racism.

Don't get rid of the racism, just hide it from public view.

3/1/2013....wasn't in that video either...even before Bresciani's alleged "scrub" that made the news.

[AmsterBison]

Nice attempt at deflecting.... back to the topic at hand - do we think it is possible for NDSU to get in compliance in time for playoffs or is it already too late?

Compliance with what again?

Back when the KKK ran Grand Forks, my family held that there was nothing wrong with their costumes that five or six additional holes wouldn't fix. :)

[Boogs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajFNKvP6T3M

NDSU's fight song sounds kind of familiar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPY2NVDme-E

Can you say copyright infringement?!

[clenz]

NDSU's long history of hating the "red man" but hiding their true racism comes out in their logos.

The logo on their helmet? It's actually only half of that logo.

Here's the full logo

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/ndsu_zps9kfdqgoe.png

[POD Knows]

What's losing?

Your favorite school has a racist school song, as of now, and hasn't actually fixed it. Just "made it disappear from public view".

Hidden racism, the best kind.

Wait a minute, isn't Cedar Falls located in Blackhawk county. Wasn't the origin of the name of the county derived from an Native America chief back in the day. Isn't it a fact that UNI is located in a city that is located in county with a racist name.

I rest my case. xeyebrowx

[clenz]

Wait a minute, isn't Cedar Falls located in Blackhawk county. Wasn't the origin of the name of the county derived from an Native America chief back in the day. Isn't it a fact that UNI is located in a city that is located in county with a racist name.

I rest my case. xeyebrowx

Black Hawk County is dedicated to honoring the spirit that was Chief Black Hawk. Permission from the Black Hawk tribe was gained.

[clenz]

It's why his named was used and he isn't referred to as the red man that used to be in charge before the Celts, Scots and Norse showed up.

Though to be more accurate to the area, the German, Dutch and Irish

[AmsterBison]

It's why his named was used and he isn't referred to as the red man that used to be in charge before the Celts, Scots and Norse showed up.

Though to be more accurate to the area, the German, Dutch and Irish

Is he related to Mike Hawk?

[POD Knows]

Black Hawk County is dedicated to honoring the spirit that was Chief Black Hawk. Permission from the Black Hawk tribe was gained.

I was kidding, trying to make a point about the absurd by being absurd. I am sure that you understood that given the clarity you have brought to this thread.

[clenz]

I was kidding, trying to make a point about the absurd by being absurd. I am sure that you understood that given the clarity you have brought to this thread.

Completely understood. I have no idea of anything I posted is actually accurate with that reply.

If I wasn't on my phone I would have said something to the affect of how crazy it is to be so PC about Native American names around the upper Midwest. Literally 99% of everything has a Native American based name

[POD Knows]

Completely understood. I have no idea of anything I posted is actually accurate with that reply.

If I wasn't on my phone I would have said something to the affect of how crazy it is to be so PC about Native American names around the upper Midwest. Literally 99% of everything has a Native American based name

That is funny, I had to go to Wikipedia to check out the county name and origin to make sure I was right. I already got spanked today for not understanding the processes involved in ratifying amendments to the constitution. I was trying to find a Native American street name on campus at UNI so I could really blast you but the best I could do was at the county level. Oh well, Sioux suck ****, so much ****. Go Bison.

[F'N Hawks]

Completely understood. I have no idea of anything I posted is actually accurate with that reply.

If I wasn't on my phone I would have said something to the affect of how crazy it is to be so PC about Native American names around the upper Midwest. Literally 99% of everything has a Native American based name

Then, you go down to the south, like Texas for instance, and they don't give a ***** about anything. When UND went to Texas Tech it was like we were in the 80s with native american nicknames. The students held a long banner that read "Trail of Tears". The front cover of the press box guide had Leach riding on a horse shooting at a native american who was running in front of them with UND interlocking logo on him.

Could not have cared less that we were going through the nickname issue. Or didn't even know.

[BisonFan02]

NDSU's long history of hating the "red man" but hiding their true racism comes out in their logos.

The logo on their helmet? It's actually only half of that logo.

Here's the full logo

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/ndsu_zps9kfdqgoe.png


Oddly enough, one of the main reasons UND went with the Fighting Sioux back in the day was because they hunted/killed Bison. xlolx

[clenz]

Then, you go down to the south, like Texas for instance, and they don't give a ***** about anything. When UND went to Texas Tech it was like we were in the 80s with native american nicknames. The students held a long banner that read "Trail of Tears". The front cover of the press box guide had Leach riding on a horse shooting at a native american who was running in front of them with UND interlocking logo on him.

Could not have cared less that we were going through the nickname issue. Or didn't even know.
The crazy part, and I know NCAA can have their own rules, is the number of schools that still use native imagery/names.

I can't even count how many schools in Iowa use "Indians" for their nickname.

The city I'm in has 2 schools, one is the Indians and this is their logo
http://accvonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ACHS-Indian.jpg



There are nearly as many "Warrior" nicknames in the state, though most of them are moving from a similar logo to a generic school letter or "W" logo.




EDIT...FOUND A SITE THAT SHOWS IT

http://aistm.org/iowa.htm


Number of "Indian" sports team tokens -Approximately 79 (http://aistm.org/iowa.htm#schools)

Most frequently used "Indian" token - "Indians" (37)

Instances of "Redsk*ns" nickname use - 2

Quick mascot facts on the State of Iowa:

Morningside College, in Sioux City, changed its "Maroon Chiefs" nickname to "Mustangs" in 1998.

In 1996, the Sioux City Human Rights Commission honored Hull Western Christian High School (http://www.geocities.com/~earnestman/articles/961110hull.htm) for removing
the mascot-logo "Indians" from the school's identity.

Simpson College, affiliated with the United Methodist Church, finalized the changing of its "Indian" related nickname and logos in 1992.


IOWA
- Braves - 4, Chiefs - 1, Indians - 37, Redskins - 2, Warrior - 35 Total - 79





Yup...that site censors "Redskin"

[POD Knows]

Oddly enough, one of the main reasons UND went with the Fighting Sioux back in the day was because they hunted/killed Bison. xlolx

PETA should have been all over UND's ass as well, racism and honoring animal killers. When will the madness stop.

[clenz]

Thankfully, UNI can say they have no racism in their songs - or name.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzevSgb8H0I






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzoobg7Lhgk


UNI O Alma Mater
Hear our voices now in song;
Hail to thee, O state of plenty,
Thou has raised it proud and strong.
True in spirit, strong in knowledge
UNI, we sing in homage.
Hail to thee, O Alma Mater
Our tomorrows shall be thine.
From the hallowed halls of learning,
Rising from the fertile land;
Guide to fame thy sons and daughters,
In the pattern on thy hand.





I've sent an e-mail to the music department to verify there are no other verses.

[BisonFan02]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Borleske

Hey clenzy...meet the guy responsible for the Bison mascot. :D

[BisonFan02]

Thankfully, UNI can say they have no racism in their songs - or name.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzevSgb8H0I






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzoobg7Lhgk


UNI O Alma Mater
Hear our voices now in song;
Hail to thee, O state of plenty,
Thou has raised it proud and strong.
True in spirit, strong in knowledge
UNI, we sing in homage.
Hail to thee, O Alma Mater
Our tomorrows shall be thine.
From the hallowed halls of learning,
Rising from the fertile land;
Guide to fame thy sons and daughters,
In the pattern on thy hand.





I've sent an e-mail to the music department to verify there are no other verses.

I'm sure its hidden racism. xthumbsupx

[Bisonator]

NDSU's long history of hating the "red man" but hiding their true racism comes out in their logos.

The logo on their helmet? It's actually only half of that logo.

Here's the full logo

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/ndsu_zps9kfdqgoe.png
Actually not quite like that but close. It used to be on some T-shirts back in the day. :D

[POD Knows]

Thankfully, UNI can say they have no racism in their songs - or name.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzevSgb8H0I






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzoobg7Lhgk


UNI O Alma Mater
Hear our voices now in song;
Hail to thee, O state of plenty,
Thou has raised it proud and strong.
True in spirit, strong in knowledge
UNI, we sing in homage.
Hail to thee, O Alma Mater
Our tomorrows shall be thine.
From the hallowed halls of learning,
Rising from the fertile land;
Guide to fame thy sons and daughters,
In the pattern on thy hand.





I've sent an e-mail to the music department to verify there are no other verses.

UNI is not using gender neutral terminology in the second to the last sentence of the verse. You also have sons referred to before daughters. You have genderist and misogynist phrasing contained in that line of the song. To the woodshed with you.

[Bisonator]

Thankfully, UNI can say they have no racism in their songs - or name.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzevSgb8H0I






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzoobg7Lhgk


UNI O Alma Mater
Hear our voices now in song;
Hail to thee, O state of plenty,
Thou has raised it proud and strong.
True in spirit, strong in knowledge
UNI, we sing in homage.
Hail to thee, O Alma Mater
Our tomorrows shall be thine.
From the hallowed halls of learning,
Rising from the fertile land;
Guide to fame thy sons and daughters,
In the pattern on thy hand.





I've sent an e-mail to the music department to verify there are no other verses.
Panthers are probably protesting somewhere. Especially after all of those choke jobs you guys pull come playoff time!xlolx

[clenz]

UNI is not using gender neutral terminology in the second to the last sentence of the verse. You also have sons referred to before daughters. You have genderist and misogynist phrasing contained in that line of the song. To the woodshed with you.
UNI has more women than men on campus. They allowed the song to be written that way to allow for true equality.

More of them on campus so men get first dibs in the song.

It's all about being true equals on this campus

[POD Knows]

UNI has more women than men on campus. They allowed the song to be written that way to allow for true equality.

More of them on campus so men get first dibs in the song.

It's all about being true equals on this campus

I appreciate the sensitivity, carry on

[No_Skill]

Thankfully, UNI can say they have no racism in their songs - or name.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzevSgb8H0I






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzoobg7Lhgk


UNI O Alma Mater
Hear our voices now in song;
Hail to thee, O state of plenty,
Thou has raised it proud and strong.
True in spirit, strong in knowledge
UNI, we sing in homage.
Hail to thee, O Alma Mater
Our tomorrows shall be thine.
From the hallowed halls of learning,
Rising from the fertile land;
Guide to fame thy sons and daughters,
In the pattern on thy hand.





I've sent an e-mail to the music department to verify there are no other verses.

At least none that you can see. Maybe it's hidden.

[clenz]

At least none that you can see. Maybe it's hidden.

Could be. As I said, it's why I have an email our to the music department and library toga be them run records of historical songs and verses

[uni88]

Black Hawk County is dedicated to honoring the spirit that was Chief Black Hawk. Permission from the Black Hawk tribe was gained.

FYI he was a chief of the Sauk/Fox tribe.

[Thumper 76]

he isn't referred to as the red man that used to be in charge before the Celts, Scots and Norse showed up.

Though to be more accurate to the area, the German, Dutch and Irish

I would **** myself laughing if this were actually the name of something because of the ridiculousness. xlolx xlolx xlolx

[POD Knows]

In an amazing twist of fate - UND is somehow in compliance with the NCAA policy before NDSU. Which is even more amazing giving the number of NDSU fans that are "hostile and abusive" experts.

http://www.inforum.com/news/3955350-ndsu-president-wants-revision-school-song-troubling-cultural-references

The third verse of “The Yellow and the Green” (http://digitalhorizonsonline.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/ndsu-docs/id/397/show/146) includes the sentence, “Hushed upon the boundless prairies is the bison’s thund’ring tread, and the red man passes with him on his spoilers’ bounty fed.”

Can somebody please translate this line for me, I don't speak frontier gibberish.

[TheRevSFA]

Then, you go down to the south, like Texas for instance, and they don't give a ***** about anything. When UND went to Texas Tech it was like we were in the 80s with native american nicknames. The students held a long banner that read "Trail of Tears". The front cover of the press box guide had Leach riding on a horse shooting at a native american who was running in front of them with UND interlocking logo on him.

Could not have cared less that we were going through the nickname issue. Or didn't even know.

Texas tech fans are like the wal-mart of fandom in Texas

[Nickels]

Then, you go down to the south, like Texas for instance, and they don't give a ***** about anything. When UND went to Texas Tech it was like we were in the 80s with native american nicknames. The students held a long banner that read "Trail of Tears". The front cover of the press box guide had Leach riding on a horse shooting at a native american who was running in front of them with UND interlocking logo on him.

Could not have cared less that we were going through the nickname issue. Or didn't even know.
http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/01/55/27/447983/3/628x471.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1131/1466889307_4a0da71333.jpg

http://d1jrw5jterzxwu.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/default/files/uploads/port_neches-groves_indians_.jpg

It's gonna take a ****load of PC before PNG or Evadale change their logos.

[Bisonoline]

In an amazing twist of fate - UND is somehow in compliance with the NCAA policy before NDSU. Which is even more amazing giving the number of NDSU fans that are "hostile and abusive" experts.

http://www.inforum.com/news/3955350-ndsu-president-wants-revision-school-song-troubling-cultural-references

The third verse of “The Yellow and the Green” (http://digitalhorizonsonline.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/ndsu-docs/id/397/show/146) includes the sentence, “Hushed upon the boundless prairies is the bison’s thund’ring tread, and the red man passes with him on his spoilers’ bounty fed.”

Please show where the NCAA has said NDSU was not in compliance. But considering the lack of reality in the el-forko this doesnt surprise me.
Plus we didnt spend millions like you bone heads did. We just got rid of the verse. Simple.

[Twentysix]

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/01/55/27/447983/3/628x471.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1131/1466889307_4a0da71333.jpg

http://d1jrw5jterzxwu.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/default/files/uploads/port_neches-groves_indians_.jpg

It's gonna take a ****load of PC before PNG or Evadale change their logos.

Where is the 2nd school located? Their football field is called "The Reservation"?

[Thumper 76]

I find it interesting how UND had to change their logo, but then all the state highway signs in ND have this logo on themhttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160406/563646f3ea48cfaca2927066949c1701.jpg
I don't think that UND should have had to change their name at all, it's just funny to me that the university had to change its mascot and logo while every highway patrol car in ND has a massive native head on its side and every highways sign has this on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[F'N Hawks]

I find it interesting how UND had to change their logo, but then all the state highway signs in ND have this logo on themhttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160406/563646f3ea48cfaca2927066949c1701.jpg
I don't think that UND should have had to change their name at all, it's just funny to me that the university had to change its mascot and logo while every highway patrol car in ND has a massive native head on its side and every highways sign has this on it.


Funny how that works. The part of the whole deal that nobody ever called the NA Saviors on was the fact that Spirit Lake and Standing Rock called themselves "Sioux" indians and still do. But the saviors told everyone else it was a french slang word given to them through a combination of words and means 'snake' (so the name needed to go!). Then why keep calling yourselves that? Hell, they got it printed on their water tower.

Could go on and on.....

[POD Knows]

Funny how that works. The part of the whole deal that nobody ever called the NA Saviors on was the fact that Spirit Lake and Standing Rock called themselves "Sioux" indians and still do. But the saviors told everyone else it was a french slang word given to them through a combination of words and means 'snake' (so the name needed to go!). Then why keep calling yourselves that? Hell, they got it printed on their water tower.

Could go on and on.....

And weren't the members of the Chippewa tribe pretty active in the movement to remove the name for some reason.

[clenz]

Could be. As I said, it's why I have an email our to the music department and library toga be them run records of historical songs and verses
Confirmation received there is no other verses.

[Nickels]

Where is the 2nd school located? Their football field is called "The Reservation"?
Port Neches in Southeast Texas. I think it's called Indian Stadium but Reservation is the nickname.

Adidas offered to change their logo and mascot. They're answer; "absolutely not".

"Changing it would be tapering down to PC of leftist extremists and we're not going to do that here."

http://m.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/PN-G-responds-to-Adidas-offer-to-change-Indian-6620605.php

I don't care what outside forces do, they will never convince PNG to change their name. NEVER.

[F'N Hawks]

Port Neches in Southeast Texas. I think it's called Indian Stadium but Reservation is the nickname.

Adidas offered to change their logo and mascot. They're answer; "absolutely not".

"Changing it would be tapering down to PC of leftist extremists and we're not going to do that here."

http://m.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/PN-G-responds-to-Adidas-offer-to-change-Indian-6620605.php

I don't care what outside forces do, they will never convince PNG to change their name. NEVER.

No ramifications, that's why. If there were any and they were sizeable, that name would be gone.

[Nickels]

No ramifications, that's why. If there were any and they were sizeable, that name would be gone.
There's no ramifications because our area wouldn't allow such blatant left wing stupidity to go so far.

And seriously, they'd drop all sports before dropping the name and kowtowing to leftist.

Maybe UND should have had a little more backbone and they wouldn't be going though this nonsense?

[BisonFan02]

Good news UND fans....we must have loaned you guys our logo for the Frozen Four. :D

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n305/bflaagan/frozen%204%20hats.jpg

[Boogs]

Good news UND fans....we must have loaned you guys our logo for the Frozen Four. :D

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n305/bflaagan/frozen%204%20hats.jpg

I am so sick of seeing non-FBS schools in the Frozen Four.

If you school doesn't play in a FBS bowl game you should not be allowed to play in ice hockey's Frozen Four either.

Never heard of these schools except for Boston College, and they suck in football.

[F'N Hawks]

There's no ramifications because our area wouldn't allow such blatant left wing stupidity to go so far.

And seriously, they'd drop all sports before dropping the name and kowtowing to leftist.

Maybe UND should have had a little more backbone and they wouldn't be going though this nonsense?

OK, Chief. Read up a little before making asinine stupid ass comments like that.

Dropping all sports to keep a nickname, boy, that would pure genius, Lloyd! All sports gone but we kept our nickname.
Might as well shut down the school while your at it cause you won't have many kids left attending. City Hall won't think much of that decision either when their tax base gets but in half. But hey, you kept your nickname!

[BisonFan02]

I am so sick of seeing non-FBS schools in the Frozen Four.

If you school doesn't play in a FBS bowl game you should not be allowed to play in ice hockey's Frozen Four either.

Never heard of these schools except for Boston College, and they suck in football.

https://media.giphy.com/media/iAjKwzyieFoOI/giphy.gif

[F'N Hawks]

I am so sick of seeing non-FBS schools in the Frozen Four.

If you school doesn't play in a FBS bowl game you should not be allowed to play in ice hockey's Frozen Four either.

Never heard of these schools except for Boston College, and they suck in football.

You must have hated the Final Four, then.

[AmsterBison]

You must have hated the Final Four, then.

Pretty sure he liked the Final Four, but it'd be tough to use his criteria in hockey since only four teams in the 16-team playoff had scholarship DI football programs.

[F'N Hawks]

Pretty sure he liked the Final Four, but it'd be tough to use his criteria in hockey since only four teams in the 16-team playoff had scholarship DI football programs.

He said FBS Bowl Game. Not program.

[Nickels]

OK, Chief. Read up a little before making asinine stupid ass comments like that.

Dropping all sports to keep a nickname, boy, that would pure genius, Lloyd! All sports gone but we kept our nickname.
Might as well shut down the school while your at it cause you won't have many kids left attending. City Hall won't think much of that decision either when their tax base gets but in half. But hey, you kept your nickname!
Well with that defeatist attitude it's no wonder your school lost most of its traditions.

[taper]

I find it interesting how UND had to change their logo, but then all the state highway signs in ND have this logo on themhttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160406/563646f3ea48cfaca2927066949c1701.jpg
I don't think that UND should have had to change their name at all, it's just funny to me that the university had to change its mascot and logo while every highway patrol car in ND has a massive native head on its side and every highways sign has this on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just so we're clear, you're saying all references to Native Americans are inherently offensive, and want all references removed?

That's known as cultural genocide. Not too popular among the NA crowd.

[Thumper 76]

Just so we're clear, you're saying all references to Native Americans are inherently offensive, and want all references removed?

That's known as cultural genocide. Not too popular among the NA crowd.

Just to be clear, improve your reading comprehension and you wouldn't come off as an illiterate dickbag. I said in the post I said I didn't think that UND should have had to change their mascot in the first place. It is interesting that using basically the EXACT SAME LOGO is ok in other places but not there.

Also that wouldn't be cultural genocide you drama queen. Those logos aren't on any other states highway signs OR state police. So that wouldn't be what you are inferring. However, I also have no problem with it being used in those capacities either. Similar to how I find it fascinating that the black community has started using the slang term of "savage", which is basically the n-bomb to Native Americans, just to the opposite end of the spectrum. I don't give a **** there either but it is interesting.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I am so sick of seeing non-FBS schools in the Frozen Four.

If you school doesn't play in a FBS bowl game you should not be allowed to play in ice hockey's Frozen Four either.

Never heard of these schools except for Boston College, and they suck in football.

No kidding man, those FBS bowls are so damn elite right? JFC, could you imagine if a non FBS team won the basketball tourney....the horror.

It's f'n hockey anyway. 85 or 86 people give a rat's ass.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Eh, late to the party again I guess.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There's no ramifications because our area wouldn't allow such blatant left wing stupidity to go so far.

And seriously, they'd drop all sports before dropping the name and kowtowing to leftist.

Maybe UND should have had a little more backbone and they wouldn't be going though this nonsense?

You have to just be trolling cuz this is way stupid. Your area wouldn't say **** for any longer than UND's did if the NCAA and it's participants were putting the pressure on you. Your area would roll over like a guy being sold for ciggy's on cell block D.

[Bisonoline]

No kidding man, those FBS bowls are so damn elite right? JFC, could you imagine if a non FBS team won the basketball tourney....the horror.

It's f'n hockey anyway. 85 or 86 people give a rat's ass.

You sure its that many?????

[UncleBuck]

Those FBS schools dominate college hockey too much, just look at how the big boys in Big Ten hockey crush the smaller schools, just like they planned.

[Twentysix]

Congrats to UND on the championship! I would have liked to see it, but the bar I was at in SoCal insisted that they had to leave the Memphis grizzlies/Golden State game on instead, cause "no one gives a **** about hockey." :\

[grizband]

Ursus, I don't disagree with you often about sports. However, discrediting the popularity of hockey is right up there with discrediting FCS football to me

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Ursus, I don't disagree with you often about sports. However, discrediting the popularity of hockey is right up there with discrediting FCS football to me

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

FCS football isn't popular...when compared to P5 and so forth. Let's not act like we are here on an FCS site so we have to be dishonest about the popularity of what we find interesting. In comparison Hockey is at even the top level is even more niche than FCS football.

I always find it odd the crap people get miffed about. My retort was to a feller talking about things that should only be open to FBS teams and so forth...so my reply is minimizing (rightfully) the number of fans that give a crap. It's a sport than needs to be inclusive...not separate due to it's niche. A punch of sorts is thrown out there and a counter punch or two ensues and if some want to get upset about it cuz it is not their view I'm fine living with that.

[grizband]

FCS football isn't popular...when compared to P5 and so forth. Let's not act like we are here on an FCS site so we have to be dishonest about the popularity of what we find interesting. In comparison Hockey is at even the top level is even more niche than FCS football.

I always find it odd the crap people get miffed about. My retort was to a feller talking about things that should only be open to FBS teams and so forth...so my reply is minimizing (rightfully) the number of fans that give a crap. It's a sport than needs to be inclusive...not separate due to it's niche. A punch of sorts is thrown out there and a counter punch or two ensues and if some want to get upset about it cuz it is not their view I'm fine living with that.
True, I took your statement out of context. I'm passionate about hockey, and sometimes let emotions get in the way. Sorry about that.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[ursus arctos horribilis]

True, I took your statement out of context. I'm passionate about hockey, and sometimes let emotions get in the way. Sorry about that.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

It ain't nothing but a thing homey.

[Bisonator]

Congrats to UND! Funny how they finally win it after changing their name. Maybe Fighting Hawks was the difference.

[Twentysix]

Congrats to UND! Funny how they finally win it after changing their name. Maybe Fighting Hawks was the difference.

Probably not. :p

[Eightyfourbison]

Congrats to UND! Funny how they finally win it after changing their name. Maybe Fighting Hawks was the difference.

Never got to raise a banner in Ralph's Palace as the FS. Now that they are the F'n Hawks, the curse has been broken. Maybe the Forever sioux chants last night was just enough to piss off the hockey gods again and set them up for another long drought. xpopcornx

Oh, by the way, congrats to the Fighting Hawks on the win.