MEAC At-Large Bid?

[superman7515]

With the number of teams that it appears won't make it to seven D1 wins, it's looking increasingly likely that a six D1 win team may sneak in. With Bethune-Cookman currently at 6-2 with a loss to North Carolina A&T, it's possible that the Wildcats could finish the season 9-2 and in second place. In that case, North Carolina A&T goes to the newly founded Celebration Bowl, with Bethune-Cookman eligible to take a playoff bid. Do you think the committee would extend an invite?

[PantherRob82]

Starting to look like it.

[citdog]

Nope. Those that choose to ignore Plessey vs Ferguson being overturned should be excluded. They being on the 'wrong side of history' and all.

[bonarae]

With all due respect to the rest of the playoff-eligible teams, I think a six win D1 team may make the field of 24 at all, maybe there may be one or two more than that...

What about Kennesaw State? Are they eligible if they run the table this year?

[BisonTru]

Another tidbit. I believe, when the MEAC gave up their auto, they also gave up their seat on the committee. So, without any representation from the MEAC, it should be less likely than a couple of years ago when they got an at-large.

Who knows, but personally I don't think it would be deserved.

[centennial]

Another tidbit. I believe, when the MEAC gave up their auto, they also gave up their seat on the committee. So, without any representation from the MEAC, it should be less likely than a couple of years ago when they got an at-large.

Who knows, but personally I don't think it would be deserved.
I would rather give a 6 win UNI or W&M like team than MEAC. I guess we will see.

[superman7515]

What about Kennesaw State? Are they eligible if they run the table this year?

Kennesaw State only has two D1 wins and one of those is East Tennessee State, I hope they give an at-large to the Pioneer before Kennesaw this season.

- - - Updated - - -


Another tidbit. I believe, when the MEAC gave up their auto, they also gave up their seat on the committee. So, without any representation from the MEAC, it should be less likely than a couple of years ago when they got an at-large.

Shouldn't have any effect, the members must leave the room when teams from their conference are discussed.

[bonarae]

Kennesaw State only has two D1 wins and one of those is East Tennessee State, I hope they give an at-large to the Pioneer before Kennesaw this season.

Unfortunately, I couldn't edit my post further due to slow internet connection before realizing my mistake. Dayton should be in as the autobid; Jacksonville is a longshot for an at-large, or aren't they eligible this year for even a playoff bid?

[PantherRob82]

Kennesaw State only has two D1 wins and one of those is East Tennessee State, I hope they give an at-large to the Pioneer before Kennesaw this season.

- - - Updated - - -



Shouldn't have any effect, the members must leave the room when teams from their conference are discussed.

I thought it was just their team, not their conference.

[superman7515]

Just expressing my disdain for the Top 25 votes given to Kennesaw based on their flimsy 5-2 record that included such powerhouses as Point, Edward Waters, and Shorter. These seriously don't even sound like real schools. If they face off against Stapler, Price Waterhouse, and Schnauzer next year, I'm calling bull****.

[PantherRob82]

Unfortunately, I couldn't edit my post further due to slow internet connection before realizing my mistake. Dayton should be in as the autobid; Jacksonville is a longshot for an at-large, or aren't they eligible this year for even a playoff bid?

Jacksonville accepted a post season ban. Not eligible for an at-large.

[taper]

I've said it before, 24 is too many. Get it back to 16 and improve the quality of the playoffs.

[JayJ79]

Shouldn't have any effect, the members must leave the room when teams from their conference are discussed.

false. committee members only have to leave the room when their own team is being discussed, they can stay for their conference-mates.

[JayJ79]

I've said it before, 24 is too many. Get it back to 16 and improve the quality of the playoffs.

that would mean rescinding an autobid from one of the AQ conferences.
I like the notion of seeding the top 8 and rewarding them with a bye, plus that actually makes the round-of-16 stronger by weeding out some of the weaker AQs.
however I don't like how often the new setup results in rematches between conference opponents in the round-of-16.

[superman7515]

I thought it was just their team, not their conference.

Thanks, I thought it was the conference for some reason.

[BisonTru]

Shouldn't have any effect, the members must leave the room when teams from their conference are discussed.

From the NCAA:
"If a committee member’s institution is under consideration, that committee member will not be allowed in the room during discussions involving his/her team and may not vote for his/her team during the voting process. Similarly, a committee member from a conference office may not be present during discussions, nor vote for any team from his/her conference"

To me that reads conference commissioners couldn't vote for any team in their conference, but other ADs can. I could be mis interpreting.

If I am correct, it would make sense for AD representation rather than a commissioner representation for your league.

[superman7515]

From the NCAA:
"If a committee member’s institution is under consideration, that committee member will not be allowed in the room during discussions involving his/her team and may not vote for his/her team during the voting process. Similarly, a committee member from a conference office may not be present during discussions, nor vote for any team from his/her conference"

To me that reads conference commissioners couldn't vote for any team in their conference, but other ADs can. I could be mis interpreting.

If I am correct, it would make sense for AD representation rather than a commissioner representation for your league.

I remembered there was a way you had to leave the room for the whole conference, but for some reason I was thinking it was always that way. Agree with you that you should pretty much never send someone from the conference office in this case, haha.

[dgtw]

Jacksonville accepted a post season ban. Not eligible for an at-large.

They can't take the Pioneer autobid but they can get an at large because they did not break NCAA rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[clenz]

They can't take the Pioneer autobid but they can get an at large because they did not break NCAA rules.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Already been discussed...they accepted a full ban

[clenz]

I've said it before, 24 is too many. Get it back to 16 and improve the quality of the playoffs.
Must have a minimum of 20

[taper]

"Must" is a pretty strong word for that. Current NCAA rules say you can't have fewer at large than AQ, but this is hardly the word of god written in stone. They could change this rule, or drop PFL and NEC AQ to get back to 8, or drop all AQ. I think an all at large playoff would be pretty good. Being a conference champ would still be an almost automatic ticket, but they could leave out teams like the 5-6 2013 Lafayette AQ. While the CFP isn't sanctioned by the NCAA, they have their fingers all over it. They have 4 spots for 5 conferences.

And yes, I know this needs a rule change. No reason that can't happen.

[clenz]

"Must" is a pretty strong word for that. Current NCAA rules say you can't have fewer at large than AQ, but this is hardly the word of god written in stone. They could change this rule, or drop PFL and NEC AQ to get back to 8, or drop all AQ. I think an all at large playoff would be pretty good. Being a conference champ would still be an almost automatic ticket, but they could leave out teams like the 5-6 2013 Lafayette AQ. While the CFP isn't sanctioned by the NCAA, they have their fingers all over it. They have 4 spots for 5 conferences.

And yes, I know this needs a rule change. No reason that can't happen.Change it for one sport and you'd have to change it for all.

Not going happen. Rule committee and competition committee will never allow it to happen

[RabidRabbit]

But rule changes about size of playoffs not occurring this year. Regarding an at large from Meac, nec, pioneer or swac, not happening. No good OOC wins. Meac has best chance if Co Champs and had quality OOC wins and some top 25 support. Not seeing that. NC A&T best chance for top 25, and they haven't made it yet.

[UNHWildcat18]

Drop down to 20 teams and drop any conference AQ if they don't have a full 63 scholarship league

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Drop down to 20 teams and drop any conference AQ if they don't have a full 63 scholarship league

Impossible to do that because not all schools fund equally within leagues. Nicholls State is around NEC scholarship levels iirc. There's a few others as well.....

[UNHWildcat18]

Impossible to do that because not all schools fund equally within leagues. Nicholls State is around NEC scholarship levels iirc. There's a few others as well.....
If they choose to do so then that is their fault. Leagues should provide the option of 63 if not then no AQ.

[RabidRabbit]

FCS is defined by teams playing D-1 football, not playing 85 schollie (FBS) football. So, it's like the basketball conferences and not a major conference. Range from AAC to SWAC conference in quality of basketball play and opponents.

[PantherRob82]

I love the playoffs as is. Give the "lower" conferences a chance to show what's up. Wish the Ivies, SWAC and MEAC were in and that we full field seeded.

[clenz]

If they choose to do so then that is their fault. Leagues should provide the option of 63 if not then no AQ.
That leaves the MVFC out. The conference allows 63 but most teams only give 58-61 each year

[centennial]

That leaves the MVFC out. The conference allows 63 but most teams only give 58-61 each year
IMO we should have 35-40 scholarship minimum. However you get to that number shouldn't matter- They can be athletic, need based, academic. Most conferences should be able to swing that. If they cannot perhaps they should rethink why they are D1.

[UNHWildcat18]

That leaves the MVFC out. The conference allows 63 but most teams only give 58-61 each year

I don't think you understand what I meant.. The conference has to allow up to 63 scholarships. If not they don't get an AQ. The NEC has a max allowance of 40. If a school in a full 63 conference doesn't give out 63 and say only 61 that's the schools business.

[JayJ79]

IMO we should have 35-40 scholarship minimum. However you get to that number shouldn't matter- They can be athletic, need based, academic. Most conferences should be able to swing that. If they cannot perhaps they should rethink why they are D1.

if given that ultimatum, many of the low/no scholarship programs would discontinue football in order to maintain D1 in basketball and other sports.

[clenz]

I don't think you understand what I meant.. The conference has to allow up to 63 scholarships. If not they don't get an AQ. The NEC has a max allowance of 40. If a school in a full 63 conference doesn't give out 63 and say only 61 that's the schools business.
So you're suggesting thr NCAA make a rule in direct conflict with their guidelines for NCAA D1 eligibility?

No.

[UNHWildcat18]

So you're suggesting thr NCAA make a rule in direct conflict with their guidelines for NCAA D1 eligibility?

No.

What is that rule specifically? and yes I would have no problem if the NCAA said to receive an auto bid for fcs playoffs the conferences must allow up to the 63 limit. conferences that don't do that will not get an AQ but can still receive an at large. San Diego getting an auto bid so Montana could beat them like what 45-0 in the first half is a load of bull**** IMO. Teams would still be eligible but would need an at large. Personally I wish the pioneer was d2 or d3. NEC also needs to go full scholarship. Still mad it went from 20 to 24 and the pioneer got an AQ. Kids working hard I know, not trying to put them down. Just like the p5 want to break away from G5. I just want more full commitment to the highest level of FCS football.

[clenz]

What is that rule specifically? and yes I would have no problem if the NCAA said to receive an auto bid for fcs playoffs the conferences must allow up to the 63 limit. conferences that don't do that will not get an AQ but can still receive an at large. San Diego getting an auto bid so Montana could beat them like what 45-0 in the first half is a load of bull**** IMO. Teams would still be eligible but would need an at large. Personally I wish the pioneer was d2 or d3. NEC also needs to go full scholarship. Still mad it went from 20 to 24 and the pioneer got an AQ. Kids working hard I know, not trying to put them down. Just like the p5 want to break away from G5. I just want more full commitment to the highest level of FCS football.
Maybe your CAA mates should take your advice and not play the PFL anymkre, since they beat the CAA this year.

Maybe your team should stop playing them OOC since they are such a disgrace to footbal. Call up some MVFC programs to fill your OOC schedules and see what your record looks like.

What's that? They won't do that because your records and rankings would sink faster than the Titanic.

Should only teams that give 63 be eligible for the playoffs? There's probably a 20 of them anyway

It's not often i say this, and mean it...

That is the single dumbest opinion I've read on this board

[kdinva]

Drop down to 20 teams and drop any conference AQ if they don't have a full 63 scholarship league

VMI is working with about 57 schollys this Fall......so UTC, WCU, et al, should be punished? I don't think Wofford is above 60, either.

[taper]

Maybe your CAA mates should take your advice and not play the PFL anymkre, since they beat the CAA this year.

Maybe your team should stop playing them OOC since they are such a disgrace to footbal. Call up some MVFC programs to fill your OOC schedules and see what your record looks like.

What's that? They won't do that because your records and rankings would sink faster than the Titanic.

Should only teams that give 63 be eligible for the playoffs? There's probably a 20 of them anyway

It's not often i say this, and mean it...

That is the single dumbest opinion I've read on this board

I don't think that's what he's saying at all. He's saying FCS AQ conferences shouldn't be allowed to limit their members to under 63 scholarships. Remember 2013 Fordham giving schollies and not eligible for the PL autobid? NEC limits totals also.

[clenz]

I don't think that's what he's saying at all. He's saying FCS AQ conferences shouldn't be allowed to limit their members to under 63 scholarships. Remember 2013 Fordham giving schollies and not eligible for the PL autobid? NEC limits totals also.
He wants conferences barred from post season olay.

Spin that anyway you want and it's an atrocious idea

[Mr. C]

With the number of teams that it appears won't make it to seven D1 wins, it's looking increasingly likely that a six D1 win team may sneak in. With Bethune-Cookman currently at 6-2 with a loss to North Carolina A&T, it's possible that the Wildcats could finish the season 9-2 and in second place. In that case, North Carolina A&T goes to the newly founded Celebration Bowl, with Bethune-Cookman eligible to take a playoff bid. Do you think the committee would extend an invite?
Having covered last week's NCAT-Bethune game in person, I saw little that would tell me that B-CU is a playoff-caliber team. The MEAC is really down talent-wise and Bethune really doesn't have many weapons on offense, or defense. NCAT has a handful of talented players, such as Tarik Cohen, but I think the Aggies would get blown out in the first round of the playoffs.

[JayJ79]

He wants conferences barred from post season olay.

Spin that anyway you want and it's an atrocious idea

technically, it wouldn't be "barred" from post season play, they just wouldn't be awarded an AQ (as was the case in previous years before the field was expanded). They would still be eligible for at-large consideration.
though yes, in practicality, that would mean they would not make the post season.

I agree, it is a bad idea, and would make the FCS just as crooked as the FBS (only without the money and popularity).

[UNHWildcat18]

I don't think that's what he's saying at all. He's saying FCS AQ conferences shouldn't be allowed to limit their members to under 63 scholarships. Remember 2013 Fordham giving schollies and not eligible for the PL autobid? NEC limits totals also.


OMG THANK YOU, jesus ****ing christ. was i speaking that much jibberish??? clenz apparently thought so.

[clenz]

It is jibberish to proclaim conferences, meeting D1 requirements, should be barred from receiving an autobid.

[UNHWildcat18]

Maybe your CAA mates should take your advice and not play the PFL anymkre, since they beat the CAA this year.

Maybe your team should stop playing them OOC since they are such a disgrace to football. Call up some MVFC programs to fill your OOC schedules and see what your record looks like.

What's that? They won't do that because your records and rankings would sink faster than the Titanic.

Should only teams that give 63 be eligible for the playoffs? There's probably a 20 of them anyway

It's not often i say this, and mean it...

That is the single dumbest opinion I've read on this board

Honestly clenz why are you being such an asshole?, like taper said all I was trying to say is that to receive an aq bid a league cannot limit teams to under to 63(see NEC), if they choose to go under 63 thats perfectly fine no team would be punished if they had like kdinva said vmi has 57. Also I cannot control who we schedule. I never said we should stop scheduling NEC teams or Patriot league teams. Or that they are a disgrace to football. You are just putting words in my mouth..

I never said I wanted conferences banned from season play. Sorry I think its dumb for a pioneer team to get in and get crushed by montana by 50 then oh idk a 3rd southland team or a 5th(way better MVFC) team. Sorry for having the dumbest opinion you have ever seen. I'm also sorry you were ****ing unable to understand what I was trying to say..

[clenz]

The PFL is beating CAA teams this year...as is the Ivy league.

The PFL took a ranked UND team to the wire.

You realize you're arguing with a guy who, for years, has advocated for not giving the OVC and MEAC no more than 1 bid because they don't deserve it.

Every single D1 conference deserves and autobid should they choose to accept it

[taper]

Clenz, you're a smart guy with a lot more football knowledge than me, but I don't understand why you're stuck on NCAA rules. Yes, the rules as they are now don't allow what we're suggesting. That's why we want them to CHANGE the rules. There's absolutely no reason they can't do anything we've talked about. I won't give odds on it actually happening, but to say various committees won't "allow" certain things to happen is ridiculous. Who would have thought 10 years ago that FCOA would be allowed?

[UNHWildcat18]

It is jibberish to proclaim conferences, meeting D1 requirements, should be barred from receiving an autobid.

Well like I said before I am not aware of all of the legal standpoints from the NCAA so if you wanted to list that out for me feel free.

[UNHWildcat18]

Clenz, you're a smart guy with a lot more football knowledge than me, but I don't understand why you're stuck on NCAA rules. Yes, the rules as they are now don't allow what we're suggesting. That's why we want them to CHANGE the rules. There's absolutely no reason they can't do anything we've talked about. I won't give odds on it actually happening, but to say various committees won't "allow" certain things to happen is ridiculous. Who would have thought 10 years ago that FCOA would be allowed?

Precisely

[UNHWildcat18]

The PFL is beating CAA teams this year...as is the Ivy league.

The PFL took a ranked UND team to the wire.

You realize you're arguing with a guy who, for years, has advocated for not giving the OVC and MEAC no more than 1 bid because they don't deserve it.

Every single D1 conference deserves and autobid should they choose to accept it

Well if UNI sits out this year say in 5th place of MVFC, and you watch a pioneer team get in due to AQ and get dominated by 40 to the 4th place MVFC who you say beat for example could be SDSU. Wouldn't that bother you? We've had two years of pioneer AQ and they lost 31-0 and 52-14 to teams that didn't make the quarters. Just saying If I could make the rule change to make them not have an AQ and see your UNI team in instead. I WOULD

edit before you probably state it. I know teams from other conferences get blown out, but on a general basis they are more competitive.

[clenz]

No because UNI wouldn't miss a bid because Dayton won the PFL. In fact, the reason UNI would have a chance is because the PFL has a bid.

Now, if UNI lost an at-large bid to a PFL team getting an at-large because the PFL doesn't get an auto bid I would have an issue.

If you don't get the defferences there, for any of the roughly 5 reasons, then there is no reason to continue

[UNHWildcat18]

No because UNI wouldn't miss a bid because Dayton won the PFL. In fact, the reason UNI would have a chance is because the PFL has a bid.

Now, if UNI lost an at-large bid to a PFL team getting an at-large because the PFL doesn't get an auto bid I would have an issue.

If you don't get the defferences there, for any of the roughly 5 reasons, then there is no reason to continue

I understand that all just fine lol. I know the playoffs went to 24 with 3 at larges and 1 to pioneer of im not mistaken. I'd just rather see another at large as the 24th in than the pfl auto is all. I totally understand the fairness of winning your conference for a bid. Just sad to see a good team left out to a non scholarship team that gets blown out. Hopefully I eat my own words this year and the auto is very competitive in the first round.

[clenz]

I understand that all just fine lol. I know the playoffs went to 24 with 3 at larges and 1 to pioneer of im not mistaken. I'd just rather see another at large as the 24th in than the pfl auto is all. I totally understand the fairness of winning your conference for a bid. Just sad to see a good team left out to a non scholarship team that gets blown out. Hopefully I eat my own words this year and the auto is very competitive in the first round.
No one is getting left out because the PFL got an auto bid. That's like saying UNI fot left out because Chatty won the SoCon. There has never, and will, never be an at-large left out because a team won the autobid...unless something happens in the Big South like last year or PL when Lafayette won the auto.

As a matter of fact 3 extra teams got at large bids strictly because the PFL got the bid that didn't previously. With the MEAC giving their auto bid up its now 4 extra at large bids compared to just a few years ago.

Is the PFL competitive? No. They have beaten a tip half CAA team this year though.

Do they dserve an auto bid should they want it? Without question

Should the PFL get an at-large? I'm not a fan of never in most cases...but...nearly never and not for the foreseeable futurw

[dgtw]

I don't have a problem with them getting an autobid. As clenz said, it opened the door for three (and now four) more at large teams. Besides, it gives an easy win for one of the non-bye teams in the first round.

[superman7515]

So to get back on topic, do you think the playoff committee gives an at-large bid to a 9-2 Bethune-Cookman team to keep the MEAC in the playoffs and maybe try to get them to back out of the CB when the contract is up in a couple of years? Not should they do it, but do you think they would?

[clenz]

So to get back on topic, do you think the playoff committee gives an at-large bid to a 9-2 Bethune-Cookman team to keep the MEAC in the playoffs and maybe try to get them to back out of the CB when the contract is up in a couple of years? Not should they do it, but do you think they would?
Will they? I doubt it. I'm thinking there will be some "hard feelings" about it - notice there's never been a SWAC at-large...not that a team has been good enough for it.

Will they deserve one? My gut feeling, as of now, is no. I'd have to see where the chips fall come selection time. I didn't think they deserved and at-large then they got an autobid.

[Professor Chaos]

So to get back on topic, do you think the playoff committee gives an at-large bid to a 9-2 Bethune-Cookman team to keep the MEAC in the playoffs and maybe try to get them to back out of the CB when the contract is up in a couple of years? Not should they do it, but do you think they would?
If they do and the reason is even slightly related to trying to convince the MEAC to rejoin the playoff field when their CB contract is up I'll be upset. The MEAC willingly took their football and left. If they have a team worthy of an at-large bid who isn't the CB participant than I see no reason why they shouldn't get an invite. A 9-2 Bethune-Cookman team this year isn't that team however. Their only semi-quality win would be Grambling. After that they've got an assortment of ugly wins including a 7-3 win against a 2-6 D2 team.

[clenz]

Well like I said before I am not aware of all of the legal standpoints from the NCAA so if you wanted to list that out for me feel free.
It's been discussed on here before - last year about this time.

There is an NCAA rule that there must be, at least, an equal number of at-large bids as auto bids. There are currently 10 autos, that means it must be at least a 20 team field. It was 11 auto until the MEAC gave up their bid to play in a "title/bowl" game. 11 meant at least 22. A 22 team field doesn't work. The next logical number was 24.

Could the field, conceivably, go back to 20? Yes.
Would I like to see it at 20? Yes.
Will it go back to 20? No....not unless the PFL dissolves over scholarship issues and teams leaving for scholarship leagues and we fall to a 9 autos...even then we need to say at least 18, which means 20 team field.


Now - if you want to get into the legalities of now allowing a member conference, which meets every D1 requirement, to participate in the post season, using an auto-bid (which the NCAA by-laws require)...well...try to implement it and watch the lawyers rip that apart so fast it will never make it to court before the NCAA does an about face.

[clenz]

If they do and the reason is even slightly related to trying to convince the MEAC to rejoin the playoff field when their CB contract is up I'll be upset. The MEAC willingly took their football and left. If they have a team worthy of an at-large bid who isn't the CB participant than I see no reason why they shouldn't get an invite. A 9-2 Bethune-Cookman team this year isn't that team however. Their only semi-quality win would be Grambling. After that they've got an assortment of ugly wins including a 7-3 win against a 2-6 D2 team.
I'll have to see how it plays out but I've got the MEAC and PFL on "death watch", so to speak.

I think the playoffs, and increased scrutiny over their roster make up, is going to drive enough members to scholarship football and a new conference OR the PFL to NEC type levels of funding.
The MEAC seems to have pissed enough members of the conference off that they are looking elsewhere. I don't know where they'd go, of if they'd get a home, but seems worth watching.

[KPSUL]

I would rather give a 6 win UNI or W&M like team than MEAC. I guess we will see.

UNI would have a strong case for getting a bid with 6 wins, but not W&M. To end up with only 6 wins W&M would have to lose 3 of their remaining 4 games and they would have 0 high quality wins for the season. I don't think there is much chance they will have less than 7 anyway.

[UNHWildcat18]

Will they? I doubt it. I'm thinking there will be some "hard feelings" about it - notice there's never been a SWAC at-large...not that a team has been good enough for it.

Will they deserve one? My gut feeling, as of now, is no. I'd have to see where the chips fall come selection time. I didn't think they deserved and at-large then they got an autobid.

Agreed, I doubt the MEAC gets an at large.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How serious is the possibility that there won't be enough 7 D-I win teams? The Patriot League literally has five different teams that could run the table and go 7-4, and either Lehigh or Holy Cross could do it without winning a share of the PL. Would they get in over a 9-2 or over an 8-3 B-CU? I have no idea. But they don't have a snowball chance if there are a lot of 7-4 MVFC, CAA, Big Sky, OVC... teams.

Holy Cross at 7-4 would have a win over cellar-dweller Albany as their signature win, and a "close loss" to Towson. Not exactly the stuff of at-large lore. Lehigh has two double-digit losses to likely playoff teams, plus losses to Yale and Princeton. Again, not exactly inspriring.

It seems like there's a decent chance there could be a 7-4 team under consideration from the PL, but it would be a weak at-large candidate. Way behind a 7-4 Youngstown, UNI, etc.

[superman7515]

A 9-2 Bethune-Cookman team this year isn't that team however. Their only semi-quality win would be Grambling. After that they've got an assortment of ugly wins including a 7-3 win against a 2-6 D2 team.


Just to play devil's advocate here, BCU's strength of schedule is currently better than #4 Coastal Carolina, #10 McNeese State, #11 Fordham Rams, #12 Eastern Kentucky Colonels, #13 Sam Houston State Bearkats, #18 Harvard Crimson, #22 Dartmouth Big Green, #24 Charleston Southern Buccaneers...

[clenz]

Just to play devil's advocate here, BCU's strength of schedule is currently better than #4 Coastal Carolina, #10 McNeese State, #11 Fordham Rams, #12 Eastern Kentucky Colonels, #13 Sam Houston State Bearkats, #18 Harvard Crimson, #22 Dartmouth Big Green, #24 Charleston Southern Buccaneers...
#4 Coastal Carolina - doesn't deserve their ranking would only be an at-large based on where they started the season
#10 McNeese State - has a chance to prove their ranking
#11 Fordham Rams - doesn't deserve their ranking would only be an at-large based on where they started the season
#12 Eastern Kentucky Colonels - an enigma
#13 Sam Houston State Bearkats - would score 70 on B-C
#18 Harvard Crimson - doesn't deserve their ranking
#22 Dartmouth Big Green - doesn't deserve their ranking
#24 Charleston Southern Buccaneers - likely doesn't deserve their ranking and likely doesn't deserve an at-large

[Professor Chaos]

Just to play devil's advocate here, BCU's strength of schedule is currently better than #4 Coastal Carolina, #10 McNeese State, #11 Fordham Rams, #12 Eastern Kentucky Colonels, #13 Sam Houston State Bearkats, #18 Harvard Crimson, #22 Dartmouth Big Green, #24 Charleston Southern Buccaneers...
https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/kristen-wiig-noway.gif

[superman7515]

#4 Coastal Carolina - doesn't deserve their ranking would only be an at-large based on where they started the season
#10 McNeese State - has a chance to prove their ranking
#11 Fordham Rams - doesn't deserve their ranking would only be an at-large based on where they started the season
#12 Eastern Kentucky Colonels - an enigma
#13 Sam Houston State Bearkats - would score 70 on B-C
#18 Harvard Crimson - doesn't deserve their ranking
#22 Dartmouth Big Green - doesn't deserve their ranking
#24 Charleston Southern Buccaneers - likely doesn't deserve their ranking and likely doesn't deserve an at-large


https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/kristen-wiig-noway.gif


Hey man, I didn't put Harvard & Dartmouth there, haha. BCU has a better SOS than about 1/3 of the poll, including a Top 5 team, and on par with James Madison and Jacksonville State who were just #1 & #2. Can't hold the schedule against them when it's comparable to 3 of the top 4 teams.

[KPSUL]

If B-C has a stronger SOS than all those team, how many times you get to play on ESPNU on Thursday night must be the most signifcant variable in the algorithm.

[WileECoyote06]

Just to play devil's advocate here, BCU's strength of schedule is currently better than #4 Coastal Carolina, #10 McNeese State, #11 Fordham Rams, #12 Eastern Kentucky Colonels, #13 Sam Houston State Bearkats, #18 Harvard Crimson, #22 Dartmouth Big Green, #24 Charleston Southern Buccaneers...

In the years after expansion, when the MEAC received an at-large, it was because of a tie at the top of the standings; seven conference wins, one loss. So in order for the MEAC to receive an at-large, they would need A&T to lose at least one game. A&T has had trouble with SCSU; and could lose. NCCU would love to play spoiler vs our biggest rival, like we did last year. Right now, BCU doesn't really have a good win besides Grambling, so it's highly doubtful they'd receive a bid if they finish in second place.

[Ivytalk]

https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/kristen-wiig-noway.gif

Who's that, KAOS? Your girlfriend?xcoffeex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

#24 Charleston Southern Buccaneers - likely doesn't deserve their ranking and likely doesn't deserve an at-large

If they get 8 D-I wins how do you deny them? Have a good win over The Citadel.

[ElCid]

Just to play devil's advocate here, BCU's strength of schedule is currently better than #4 Coastal Carolina, #10 McNeese State, #11 Fordham Rams, #12 Eastern Kentucky Colonels, #13 Sam Houston State Bearkats, #18 Harvard Crimson, #22 Dartmouth Big Green, #24 Charleston Southern Buccaneers...

What are using for this? Sagarin? I like Massey better since it takes all games into account. Sagarin does not take Div II, Div III, etc. results into account like Massey does when computing SOS. Not a huge difference but BCU SOS drops to below all those mentioned in Massey. Not sure if it is just due to accounting for all games or slightly different rating system, but they are different.

[superman7515]

What are using for this? Sagarin? I like Massey better since it takes all games into account. Sagarin does not take Div II, Div III, etc. results into account like Massey does when computing SOS. Not a huge difference but BCU SOS drops to below all those mentioned in Massey. Not sure if it is just due to accounting for all games or slightly different rating system, but they are different.

Yes, I was using Sagarin. Massey penalizes teams for playing competition that is too strong or too weak, so if you are #50 and you beat #1 and #100, you are given a lower score than if you are #50 and beat #40 and #60.

[ElCid]

Yes, I was using Sagarin. Massey penalizes teams for playing competition that is too strong or too weak, so if you are #50 and you beat #1 and #100, you are given a lower score than if you are #50 and beat #40 and #60.

Coming up with a foolproof methodology is tough. I have been actually tracking both Sagarin and Massey to see how their predictions come out each week and what I have found is .... not much difference. Massey has a factional better result but it is insignificant. But I am just tracking W/L and not spreads.

[superman7515]

Coming up with a foolproof methodology is tough. I have been actually tracking both Sagarin and Massey to see how their predictions come out each week and what I have found is .... not much difference. Massey has a factional better result but it is insignificant. But I am just tracking W/L and not spreads.


Let me know what you end up with at the end of the season, might be worth a switch on the spreadsheets if it ends up great enough.

[superman7515]

You're welcome, as always, Craig. And I'll be looking forward to the article from LFN as well...

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20151025123535163346704&ref=hea&tm=&src=FCS


- If North Carolina A&T and Bethune-Cookman both get to nine wins in the regular season, which is quite possible, it will be interesting to see if the FCS playoff selection committee takes either of the MEAC teams with an at-large bid. The prize in the MEAC is a spot in the inaugural Celebration Bowl, but the one that doesn't get it from these two teams would have a playoff-worthy resume at nine wins.

[KPSUL]

Just expressing my disdain for the Top 25 votes given to Kennesaw based on their flimsy 5-2 record that included such powerhouses as Point, Edward Waters, and Shorter. These seriously don't even sound like real schools. If they face off against Stapler, Price Waterhouse, and Schnauzer next year, I'm calling bull****.

Price Waterhouse could be pretty intimidating; if you beat'em, they might audit your scholarship program for the NCAA.

[ElCid]

Let me know what you end up with at the end of the season, might be worth a switch on the spreadsheets if it ends up great enough.

I will certainly let you know. Right now, just FYI, Sagarin has been 79% correct and Massey has been 81.5% correct in picking winners. I had not tallied them in a 2-3 weeks and Massey has pulled away a little bit. I have only tracked the "AGS top 25" games for both Sagarin and Massey. But I have also tracked the Massey for all games and they are at 82.18% correct in picking winners. Not enough time to do the Sagarin for every game as I would have to compute every game and that takes too much time.

I always note where there is a difference in the predicted winner and a big discrepancy I have seen was in week 1 where Massey had Western Ill as a 10 point favorite over E Ill, and Sagarin had E Ill as a 1 point favorite. Western won 33-5. But that was week 1, so sort of understandable. Another one was in week 3 Bryant at Brown. Sagarin had Brown as a 2 point favorite and Massey had Bryant as a 10 point favorite. Bryant won 20-16 (Sagarin's Ivy league bias?). Again, that was week 1 for Ivy so maybe understandable. One more in week 7 was Sagarin had Youngstown over SDSU by 6 and Massey had SDSU by 1. SDSU won 38-8. These were just the biggest differences there are a bunch more, both ways of smaller differences. As I said Massey has a slight 2-3% edge right now in pure W/L predictions. I will let you know come January.

On a different angle, I think I like Massey a little more because I can easily copy the data right into a spreadsheet versus Sagarin which is a little harder to copy and paste.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You're welcome, as always, Craig. And I'll be looking forward to the article from LFN as well...

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20151025123535163346704&ref=hea&tm=&src=FCS

Of course, once Delaware State sweeps through the rest of the season all of this will be moot

[The Boogie Down]

Let me know what you end up with at the end of the season, might be worth a switch on the spreadsheets if it ends up great enough.

First, Supe, lemme thank you for all the work you do with those spread sheets. I'm not a voter but sincerely appreciate the work you and the others do to make it all happen! (Ehhh, not so much this particular week. Fordham beats Lehigh by 17 and drops 4 spots while Coastal squeaks passed Monmouth by 3 but somehow jumps up a notch? xconfusedx But I digress.)

So, the spreadsheets… Massey might have a slightly better prediction rating than Sagarin but he also currently has Harvard as the best team in all of FCS. Worse yet, Dartmouth who just barely got by Columbia by 4, is somehow ranked third. Not third in the Ivies, but third in ALL of the FCS! WTF?!?

I do like that Mase has all of his work archived while I hafta do separate searches for each Sag poll and even that only takes me back to 1997, but even in Mase's archives there are some serious flaws. One that stuck out for me (while checking some old Fordham ratings) was this one from 1990:
http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=11605&s=41835

Somehow, long before the Dayton Rule, Iona and St. John's (as well as Merchant Marine, Stony Brook and Pace) all got listed as I-AA teams. Kinda hard to be taken seriously as a I-AA archive while not knowing who's actually in the I-AA at the time.

[Laker]

When is the Ivy League going to come out of the Dark Ages and let their teams in the football playoffs like all their others sports are able to do in their sports?

[UNHWildcat18]

When is the Ivy League going to come out of the Dark Ages and let their teams in the football playoffs like all their others sports are able to do in their sports?

You would think by 2015 they would allow it already.

[melloware13]

Assuming no major upsets, I currently see 22 playoff-quality teams from AQ conferences (or one per the conferences just to fill the AQ). My bubble questions are taking more than 4 MVFC teams, whether the winner of the Brawl would be enough to get in, and whether a possible third OVC team (UTM) gets in. Seems to be a weak bubble this year, but if BC continues on how they are now, they are in this mix for the last AL this year. Normally, bubble will exceed MEAC though

[RootinFerDukes]

I would rather give a 6 win UNI or W&M like team than MEAC. I guess we will see.
I agree. A six or seven win team out of the MVFC, CAA, OVC, SoCon, Big Sky. Any of those have a more compelling case than any MEAC team. They haven't won a single playoff game in the history of their conference. Let's not forget that.

[superman7515]

They haven't won a single playoff game in the history of their conference. Let's not forget that.

Yeah... That's not true. You're thinking of the SWAC... Ya know, the other black guys... I know, I know, they all look alike to you.

[RootinFerDukes]

Or is it they haven't won for 15 or so years, a significant amount of time. Yes the first I-AA champion was Florida A&M, so I'm wrong there. They haven't won in a REALLY long time, excuse me.

[WileECoyote06]

Or is it they haven't won for 15 or so years, a significant amount of time. Yes the first I-AA champion was Florida A&M, so I'm wrong there. They haven't won in a REALLY long time, excuse me.

Which has ironically coincided with the regionalization of the playoffs. Years of negative recruiting in the same region usually has the effect of downgrading your available talent pool.

[Pinnum]

Which has ironically coincided with the regionalization of the playoffs. Years of negative recruiting in the same region usually has the effect of downgrading your available talent pool.

Could you expand on what you mean by this? I am not following.

[WileECoyote06]

Could you expand on what you mean by this? I am not following.

Until regionalization came into play, the MEAC had some playoff winners (FAMU, A&T), even if it didn't result in national championships. MEAC coaches recruit against in-region coaches who remind recruits about our lack of playoff success (ie the streak). Every year a MEAC team loses in the playoffs, recruiting gets more difficult, MEAC schools get less talented players, and the subsequent playoff losses get worse.

I'm not calling it unfair, wrong, or whatever. It just is what it is; and now we have the Celebration Bowl.

[clenz]

Until regionalization came into play, the MEAC had some playoff winners (FAMU, A&T), even if it didn't result in national championships. MEAC coaches recruit against in-region coaches who remind recruits about our lack of playoff success (ie the streak). Every year a MEAC team loses in the playoffs, recruiting gets more difficult, MEAC schools get less talented players, and the subsequent playoff losses get worse.

I'm not calling it unfair, wrong, or whatever. It just is what it is; and now we have the Celebration Bowl.
If that doesn't read as "taking your ball and going home" nothing will

[WileECoyote06]

If that doesn't read as "taking your ball and going home" nothing will

I agree with you. I'm against the Celebration Bowl. My school president voted against it too. The efforts by our conference mates to find new more geographically-compact home conferences have been rebuffed. So, we're stuck for six years unless we give up the tourney bid and try to create a new conference.

Sidebar: Fears over FCOA came into the discussion as well.

[JayJ79]

Which has ironically coincided with the regionalization of the playoffs. Years of negative recruiting in the same region usually has the effect of downgrading your available talent pool.

I don't get it. are you implying that the MEAC would have better success if they were matched up with teams from outside their region in the playoffs?

I'm not seeing it

[Pinnum]

I think the MEAC has declined in all sports, not just football. I think it has been the increase in spending on athletics that has been a hindrance to MEAC schools and not the regionalization of the playoffs.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think the MEAC has declined in all sports, not just football. I think it has been the increase in spending on athletics that has been a hindrance to MEAC schools and not the regionalization of the playoffs.

The MEAC has some pretty big travel required for all sports. Everyone not in Florida has to fly to Florida, and the Florida schools have to fly to Maryland/Delaware/DC.

[superman7515]

Or is it they haven't won for 15 or so years, a significant amount of time. Yes the first I-AA champion was Florida A&M, so I'm wrong there. They haven't won in a REALLY long time, excuse me.

Florida A&M wasn't in the MEAC when they won the title. FAMU was playing in a D2 conference (SIAC) when they won the D1 national championship in 1978. xlolx


I think the MEAC has declined in all sports, not just football. I think it has been the increase in spending on athletics that has been a hindrance to MEAC schools and not the regionalization of the playoffs.

Delaware State increased athletics spending, won the MEAC in football and made their first playoff appearance, three straight men's basketball championships, the men's basketball MEAC tournament championship, the women's basketball MEAC tournament championship... And then suddenly made an out-of-the-blue announcement that they were cutting their athletics budget to be more inline with the rest of the conference and haven't won anything since... Things that make you go hmm...

[WestCoastAggie]

I think the MEAC has declined in all sports, not just football. I think it has been the increase in spending on athletics that has been a hindrance to MEAC schools and not the regionalization of the playoffs.

We're doing quite well in Bowling. Thank you very much. xcoffeex

[WileECoyote06]

I don't get it. are you implying that the MEAC would have better success if they were matched up with teams from outside their region in the playoffs?

I'm not seeing it

No, I'm stating that they had better success when they were matched up with teams out of our region. That cart has left the station and isn't coming back. We can't recruit the talent in our region needed to defeat other playoff teams because coaches in other playoff conferences in our region use our futility against us.

[WileECoyote06]

We're doing quite well in Bowling. Thank you very much. xcoffeex

And track.

[RootinFerDukes]

How can Florida A&M win a I-aa championship as a D2 school?

[superman7515]

How can Florida A&M win a I-aa championship as a D2 school?

Be in D2 and be better than the teams in D1AA, haha. In 1978 they were SIAC conference champions, SIAC has always been a D2 conference since the NCAA split in 1973, and before that was a Small College conference.

http://www.thesiac.com/sports/2010/2/2/gen_0202103837.aspx?


SIAC schools are known for being staunch competitors, where many have flourished to the realms of national and global celebrity. As a whole, the conference has staked its claim to more than 50 team and individual national championships. In 1978, Florida A&M became the first black college to win a NCAA Football National Championship on any level when they defeat Massachusetts, 35-28, in the inaugural NCAA I-AA Championship Game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Be in D2 and be better than the teams in D1AA, haha. In 1978 they were SIAC conference champions, SIAC has always been a D2 conference since the NCAA split in 1973, and before that was a Small College conference.

http://www.thesiac.com/sports/2010/2/2/gen_0202103837.aspx?

In the early days of Division I, II, III, there was a significant amount of gray area. For example, C. Vivian Stringer coached a D-II PSAC school, Cheyney State, to the NCAA women's Final Four in 1982. (Stringer later went to Rutgers, where she coaches today and will be a hall-of-famer upon retirement.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Vivian_Stringer

[Thumper 76]

No, I'm stating that they had better success when they were matched up with teams out of our region. That cart has left the station and isn't coming back. We can't recruit the talent in our region needed to defeat other playoff teams because coaches in other playoff conferences in our region use our futility against us.

Kinda sounds like you are whining that that isn't fair, do you suggest they not use the advantages available to them? When SDSU moved up from DII they had been mediocre for years, but they stepped their game up.

[WileECoyote06]

Until regionalization came into play, the MEAC had some playoff winners (FAMU, A&T), even if it didn't result in national championships. MEAC coaches recruit against in-region coaches who remind recruits about our lack of playoff success (ie the streak). Every year a MEAC team loses in the playoffs, recruiting gets more difficult, MEAC schools get less talented players, and the subsequent playoff losses get worse.

I'm not calling it unfair, wrong, or whatever. It just is what it is; and now we have the Celebration Bowl.


Kinda sounds like you are whining that that isn't fair, do you suggest they not use the advantages available to them? When SDSU moved up from DII they had been mediocre for years, but they stepped their game up.




I'm not calling it unfair, wrong, or whatever. It just is what it is; and now we have the Celebration Bowl.

Nope, not whining, just offering a different opinion for people to ponder.

[taper]

The MEAC has some pretty big travel required for all sports. Everyone not in Florida has to fly to Florida, and the Florida schools have to fly to Maryland/Delaware/DC.

Not really that bad. Check out the Big Sky or Pioneer. The CAA and MVFC look pretty close to the MEAC too..

[superman7515]

Not really that bad. Check out the Big Sky or Pioneer. The CAA and MVFC look pretty close to the MEAC too..

Especially when it was Orono to Atlanta.

[superman7515]

The Wildcats move to 8-2 with a 38-14 drubbing of Morgan State. Next week they are off and then it's the rivalry game against FAMU (1-8). Still a really good chance at finishing 9-2 with their only losses to Miami and top 25 North Carolina A&T. Meanwhile, the teams ahead of them keep knocking each other off and a lot are struggling to make seven D1 wins... Going to be interesting.

[RootinFerDukes]

If they value strength of schedule, any given 7-4 team in a major conference has more of an argument to make the playoffs than a second place meac team.

[kdinva]

The Wildcats move to 8-2 with a 38-14 drubbing of Morgan State. Next week they are off and then it's the rivalry game against FAMU (1-8). Still a really good chance at finishing 9-2 with their only losses to Miami and top 25 North Carolina A&T...... Going to be interesting.

Yes, and on Nov. 22nd, all of us will again debate the last two at-larges chosen, versus the first three (or four, or five) left out.....teams like EKU, YSU, UNI, Montana, NAU need to win out.

IF Citadel beats UTC next week, SoCon may gets two teams in.....UTC will finish with only 6 D-1 wins...

[superman7515]

Craig, I'm spoon-feeding you this story, at least get the details right...

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20151108131150080456704


- The weekend results strengthened the case that the NCAA playoff selection committee may have to take the MEAC runner-up as an at-large team while the conference champion moves on to the Celebration Bowl instead of the playoffs. It's not what the committee would want, but if North Carolina A&T (8-1) or Bethune-Cookman (8-2) is 9-2, either would have to be considered over any 6-5 team and some 7-4 teams. North Carolina Central (6-3) is very much in the picture for the MEAC title and Celebration Bowl, but it's a boom-or-bust scenario because its resume wouldn't be strong enough for an at-large playoff bid.
.
.
.

PROJECTED PLAYOFF BRACKET
Hah, we're bursting the bubble on the MEAC runner-up and going Griz (to avoid negative emails from Montana fans!).
Here is our projected playoff bracket factoring in anticipated results of the next two weekends (yeah, that's always smart):
Charleston Southern-North Carolina A&T winner at No. 1 seed Jacksonville State
Portland State-Northern Iowa winner at No. 8 seed James Madison
Colgate-Richmond winner at No. 5 seed William & Mary
UT Martin-Chattanooga winner at No. 4 seed McNeese State
Bryant-Montana winner at No. 3 seed Illinois State
Fordham-The Citadel winner at No. 6 seed Coastal Carolina
Southern Utah-Sam Houston State winner at No. 7 seed South Dakota State
Dayton-Eastern Washington winner at No. 2 seed North Dakota State

So if you're bursting the bubble on the MEAC runner-up, why do you have North Carolina A&T in the playoffs? The only way the MEAC is in the playoffs is if it is the runner-up...

[BisonTru]

If I'm an AD on the selection committee, I'd have to have a concrete resume to let in a MEAC team. My thoughts are, ten conferences including mine send their best teams to make this the best tournament we can make it, and they sell out to the celebration bowl. If I can find any reason to leave them out, I would. Add together their poor historical playoff performances plus a weak schedule with no signatures wins and I would have enough to leave them off.

Plus, a handful of ADs are going to have bubble teams from their conference that they're hoping gets in, eliminate the MEAC team, and the better your odds one of your squads gets the last nod.

[Panther88]

If I'm an AD on the selection committee, I'd have to have a concrete resume to let in a MEAC team. My thoughts are, ten conferences including mine send their best teams to make this the best tournament we can make it, and they sell out to the celebration bowl. If I can find any reason to leave them out, I would. Add together their poor historical playoff performances plus a weak schedule with no signatures wins and I would have enough to leave them off.

Plus, a handful of ADs are going to have bubble teams from their conference that they're hoping gets in, eliminate the MEAC team, and the better your odds one of your squads gets the last nod.

I agree, Bison.

Absolutely NO MEAC team should be considering participating in the FCS playoffs, as no SWAC team should consider it either. Both conferences need to focus their synergies on supporting the upcoming Celebration Bowl. Couldn't agree w/ you more, Bison.

:D