How would SWAC & Ivy Champs Fare in Playoffs?

[TexasTerror]

SWAC champion is not yet determined, but how would an Arkansas-Pine Bluff or Alabama A&M do if they faced the FCS' best?

Alabama A&M - Win over TnSt
Arkansas Pine-Bluff - 32 point loss to Southern Illinois

Alabama A&M would've faltered in the playoffs, but the Pine-Bluff seven game win streak would weigh heavy. They did get beat pretty good by a playoff-bound SIU team at Pine Bluff, but this team is on fire. It is in the SWAC and yes, some of their games were pretty close, but I think the Golden Lions would've atleast put up a better fight than AAMU could...

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The Ivy League co-champs are Princeton and Yale, though Princeton holds the head to head. How would these teams do in the playoffs?

Princeton - wins over Lehigh & Lafayette, the co-champs of the PL
Yale - loss to San Diego, wins over Lehigh & Lafayette

I think both of these teams would've fared well in the playoffs. I do not think they would necessarily advance, but they could be competitive and up to par to compete in the playoffs.

[Model Citizen]

How would the Ivy champion have fared in the playoffs? Not as well as San Diego.

I bet they'd have an automatic bid, though.

[Model Citizen]

Princeton - wins over Lehigh & Lafayette, the co-champs of the PL

Princeton lost to 5-5 Cornell.

[GaSouthern]

It's probably a good thing they both dont play in the playoffs, they would not make it out of the first round.

[HIU 93]

That would be a year to year discussion.

[AppGuy04]

Until proven otherwise, I think most would think they would be a first round exit

[UAalum72]

Princeton - wouldn't be the worst team in the field

SWAC - final GPI was worse than the Northeast Conference. No teams in the top 25.

[carney2]

SWAC would get smacked.

Ivy would be a consitent contender.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I saw Princeton play three times last year - twice at Princeton stadium, and once on the TV replay of the Lehigh game. This team, without question, could play with any team in the country. I wouldn't say they would have been such an easy first round exit as some might think. Any team which depended on a bruising running game would have had a tough matchup with this year's Tigers (like Hampton, Southern Illinois, JMU, Illinois State, Youngstown State, maybe even UMass).

I saw Hampton, Lafayette, and Princeton this year. Princeton was clearly the best of the three, and probably would have won at least one playoff game.

[OL FU]

I saw Princeton play three times last year - twice at Princeton stadium, and once on the TV replay of the Lehigh game. This team, without question, could play with any team in the country. I wouldn't say they would have been such an easy first round exit as some might think. Any team which depended on a bruising running game would have had a tough matchup with this year's Tigers (like Hampton, Southern Illinois, JMU, Illinois State, Youngstown State, maybe even UMass).

I saw Hampton, Lafayette, and Princeton this year. Princeton was clearly the best of the three, and probably would have won at least one playoff game.

Most years beating Lehigh, Lafayette and Colgate would have led most of us to agree. But barely beating those three these year (especially early in the seaons when neither Lehigh or LAfayette looked good at all) does not give me a lot of reasons to think that is correct.

I like most think it is a year by year thing as to whether the SWAC or IVY could compete. I wish both conferences played a more varied OOC so that we could actually make a comparison.

[DUPFLFan]

Question.

If the Ivy League declared itself eligible for the playoffs, do you think that they would get an automatic invitation?

[Pard4Life]

People keep forgetting the Ivies have a national recruiting base... they can pluck kids from every corner of the nation. Many of them are big, physical and talented. I don't know why so many people are shortsighted in this regard.

[Ivytalk]

I agree that it's impossible to provide a general answer to this question.:read:

[OL FU]

People keep forgetting the Ivies have a national recruiting base... they can pluck kids from every corner of the nation. Many of them are big, physical and talented. I don't know why so many people are shortsighted in this regard.

Some of the answers are short sited. Others use the same criteria that we do for other schools. Give us something to compare to and this year we didn't have it.

All we saw was the top three teams beat the PL and one of them lose to USD:eek:

[andy7171]

I know nothing about the SWAC. Like every conference, I would think it would be a year to year thing though. It was a down year for the PL this year, but a couple years ago they produced a Colgate team that went to the championship. I would suspect the Ivy league would fair the same.

And yes, eventually, they would get an auto bid.

[TexasTerror]

I know nothing about the SWAC. Like every conference, I would think it would be a year to year thing though. It was a down year for the PL this year, but a couple years ago they produced a Colgate team that went to the championship. I would suspect the Ivy league would fair the same.

SWAC would need to change their mindset if they ever went to the playoffs. Not all of those coaches fit the Comegy mold and want to compete outside of the SWAC.

Would it be year to year? Not really, until the SWAC changes their thinking. We've seen what the SWAC has done in the playoffs. 0-19 or something like that? Second place team, on the road any all that other stuff, you'd think one of the SWAC schools would be able to knock some door down...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

SWAC would need to change their mindset if they ever went to the playoffs. Not all of those coaches fit the Comegy mold and want to compete outside of the SWAC.

Would it be year to year? Not really, until the SWAC changes their thinking. We've seen what the SWAC has done in the playoffs. 0-19 or something like that? Second place team, on the road any all that other stuff, you'd think one of the SWAC schools would be able to knock some door down...

Grambling *did* give Hampton all it could handle in the MEAC/SWAC challenge this year....

[carney2]

Question.

If the Ivy League declared itself eligible for the playoffs, do you think that they would get an automatic invitation?

You can bet on it.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Haven't followed the SWAC closely, but looking at the schedules and results of a lot of Ivy league teams, I'd say that they do not stand much of a chance. When is the last time an Ivy League team has beaten a team from an autobid conference (other than the PL)? The only time I can remember an Ivy scheduling one of these games was (I believe) when Princeton had a not-so-impressive close loss versus Rhode Island.

[Ivytalk]

Haven't followed the SWAC closely, but looking at the schedules and results of a lot of Ivy league teams, I'd say that they do not stand much of a chance. When is the last time an Ivy League team has beaten a team from an autobid conference (other than the PL)? The only time I can remember an Ivy scheduling one of these games was (I believe) when Princeton had a not-so-impressive close loss versus Rhode Island.

Brown beat URI in '05. Does that count?:p

[MplsBison]

Question.

If the Ivy League declared itself eligible for the playoffs, do you think that they would get an automatic invitation?

Yup. They'd take it from the MEAC and give it to the IVY.

[andy7171]

The Ivy league almost exclusively plays PL teams (plus Villanova twice, RI twice and Iona once) as their OOC games. Is that because of the type of students and academics they hold their athletes too? Or is it because PL teams and Ivy league teams are in the same geographic area? Who knows? But if the Ivy League Lite(PL) has an auto bid, and Ivy League goes better than .500 against PL teams. Shouldn't that justify an Ivy auto bid?

[89Hen]

This year the SWAC rep wouldn't have beaten anyone in the field, but the Ivy was better than the Patriot and could have possibly competed with Hampton.

[bkrownd]

Ivies seem to be on par with the PL, so I'd expect similar results.

[MACHIAVELLI]

Yup. They'd take it from the MEAC and give it to the IVY.

Sounds about right.

[TexasTerror]

Yup. They'd take it from the MEAC and give it to the IVY.

Why not the OVC? Colgate went to the title game recently and the PL has more NCAA Div I playoff success than that of the OVC...

[Mr. Tiger]

Why not the OVC? Colgate went to the title game recently and the PL has more NCAA Div I playoff success than that of the OVC...

I agree with TT. :eek: xlolx The OVC has not fared well at all in the playoffs over the last 10 years. As for the Ivy and SWAC discussion. Last year, Grambling would have been a tough out for any playoff team. This year, quite frankly, wasn't a great year for the SWAC. UAPB caught fire at the right time, but their defense is shaky. The good news is UAPB will return its key players next year. I actually think it was a strange year for I-AA football in the South period.

[*****]

... When is the last time an Ivy League team has beaten a team from an autobid conference (other than the PL)?...Maybe ...
Sat 10/16/2004 Northeastern at Harvard, Harvard 41-14
The worst beating that NU had that year. The Ivies haven't played the AQ leagues much the past two years.

[89Hen]

Ivies seem to be on par with the PL, so I'd expect similar results.

Patriot League Standings
Lafayette 5-1 6-6 (Lost to Penn, Princeton, Yale, Harvard)
Lehigh 5-1 6-5 (Lost to Princeton, Yale, Harvard)
Holy Cross 4-2 7-4 (Lost to Harvard, beat Dartmouth, Brown)
Bucknell 3-3 6-5 (Lost to Penn, beat Cornell)
Colgate 3-3 4-7 (Lost to Princeton, Cornell, beat Dartmouth)
Fordham 1-5 3-8 (Lost to Columbia)
Georgetown 0-6 2-9 (Lost to Brown, Columbia)

Nobody in the PL would have finished in the top three of the Ivy this year, probably top four.

[DUPFLFan]

So most think that the Ivy's would receive an autobid.

Yet when the PFL has played the Ivy's (too infrequently, I may add) they seem to be competitive with them. But no one thinks the PFL should get an autobid...

Hmmm... Is this some of Detroitflyer's "old guard" thinking? What am I missing here..

[89Hen]

So most think that the Ivy's would receive an autobid.

Yet when the PFL has played the Ivy's (too infrequently, I may add) they seem to be competitive with them. But no one thinks the PFL should get an autobid...

Hmmm... Is this some of Detroitflyer's "old guard" thinking? What am I missing here..
I think you're missing the "they" part. Who exactly is "they"?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Patriot League Standings
Lafayette 5-1 6-6 (Lost to Penn, Princeton, Yale, Harvard)
Lehigh 5-1 6-5 (Lost to Princeton, Yale, Harvard)
Holy Cross 4-2 7-4 (Lost to Harvard, beat Dartmouth, Brown)
Bucknell 3-3 6-5 (Lost to Penn, beat Cornell)
Colgate 3-3 4-7 (Lost to Princeton, Cornell, beat Dartmouth)
Fordham 1-5 3-8 (Lost to Columbia)
Georgetown 0-6 2-9 (Lost to Brown, Columbia)

Nobody in the PL would have finished in the top three of the Ivy this year, probably top four.

I agree. Add to this mix the fact that Lafayette played UMass respectably, and voila... either H-Y-P would have probably done reasonably well in the playoffs. Not exactly a "easy first round exit".

[DUPFLFan]

I think you're missing the "they" part. Who exactly is "they"?

You're a smart guy - look at past schedules and who has played the Ivy. I think you can figure it out.:smiley_wi

IMHO PFL teams should be looking to schedule Ivy teams much more...

[Model Citizen]

IMHO PFL teams should be looking to schedule Ivy teams much more...

I think they're looking, but not finding willing partners. USD is the exception, because the Ivies want recruiting exposure in California. I don't see Dayton getting another opportunity.

At this point, Drake is the only PFL team (IMO) that could hang with an Ivy and hasn't gotten an opportunity. Must be frustrating.

[Model Citizen]

Do you think any Ivies have the courage to play USD next year? Or will they refuse until after Johnson and Bakhtiari are gone?:smiley_wi

[HIU 93]

Yup. They'd take it from the MEAC and give it to the IVY.

Never happen.

[MplsBison]

Of course it would.

If the Patriot has one, certainly the IVY would get one.

At the same time, they won't expand the playoffs.


Something has to give.

[OL FU]

Of course it would.

If the Patriot has one, certainly the IVY would get one.

At the same time, they won't expand the playoffs.


Something has to give.

No, Because we don't have to worry about it.

The Ivy's are not participating.

We have to consider the GWFC and the NEC but not the Ivy's.

[89Hen]

You're a smart guy - look at past schedules and who has played the Ivy. I think you can figure it out. :smiley_wi

IMHO PFL teams should be looking to schedule Ivy teams much more...
Guess I'm not seeing it. Dayton lost to 4-4 Yale in 2004, San Diego is 2-5 vs the Ivy since joining the PFL. Was there something else you had in mind?? :rolleyes: xcoffeex

[Mr. Tiger]

Of course it would.

If the Patriot has one, certainly the IVY would get one.

At the same time, they won't expand the playoffs.


Something has to give.

They would take away an at-large bid before taking away any automatic bid. And again, if you think someone's bid would get yanked what makes the OVC out of the question. Although I would be against that also.

[*****]

Guess I'm not seeing it. Dayton lost to 4-4 Yale in 2004, San Diego is 2-5 vs the Ivy since joining the PFL. Was there something else you had in mind?? :rolleyes: xcoffeexI knew when he asked about the Ivy AQ that he would try and steer the thread to the PFL and... voila... it's Pity Party time again!

[UMass922]

They would take away an at-large bid before taking away any automatic bid. And again, if you think someone's bid would get yanked what makes the OVC out of the question. Although I would be against that also.

I believe NCAA rules require that there be at least as many at-large bids as automatic bids. So you couldn't have nine autos and seven at-larges. To add an Ivy auto-bid, you'd have to either subtract an existing auto-bid or expand the field by adding at least one more at-large. I may be mistaken, though. Can anyone confirm this?

[BlueHen86]

I believe NCAA rules require that there be at least as many at-large bids as automatic bids. So you couldn't have nine autos and seven at-larges. To add an Ivy auto-bid, you'd have to either subtract an existing auto-bid or expand the field by adding at least one more at-large. I may be mistaken, though. Can anyone confirm this?
I'm pretty sure that is true.
How is that for confirmation?:rotateh:

[BlueHen86]

So most think that the Ivy's would receive an autobid.

Yet when the PFL has played the Ivy's (too infrequently, I may add) they seem to be competitive with them. But no one thinks the PFL should get an autobid...

Hmmm... Is this some of Detroitflyer's "old guard" thinking? What am I missing here..
You're really reaching here.
2 - 5 is not very competative IMO.
You don't deserve an autobid based on 1 or 2 wins.
Play - and beat - some teams from autobid conferences and then we'll see.xcoffeex

[UMass922]

You're really reaching here.
2 - 5 is not very competative IMO.
You don't deserve an autobid based on 1 or 2 wins.
Play - and beat - some teams from autobid conferences and then we'll see.xcoffeex

And even if the PFL were 7-0 against the Ivy, seven games all-time is still way too small a sample. The Ivy and the Patriot play each other a zillion times a year--that's what makes a comparison between the two leagues reasonable.

[DetroitFlyer]

Ralph:

Your disdain for the PFL is quite evident! I am beginning to understand why you are banned from our board! If the Ivy could be an autobid league and if the PL is already an autobid league, there is no reason the PFL could not be an autobid league! 14 years and ZERO playoff bids is not a "pity party" it is a fact! Stop drinking your own kookaid! Or did I mean to say koolaid? When exactly do you intend to start selling those "Old Guard" T-shirts? I think they would be very successful here at AGS!

[OL FU]

Whose 2006 schedule is this?

09/02/06 vs. Robert Morris Welcome Stadium W, 21-14
09/09/06 at Wittenberg Springfield, OH W, 35-28
09/23/06 vs. Austin Peay Welcome Stadium W, 28-23
09/30/06 at Butler (PFL) Indianapolis, IN L, 23-20
10/07/06 vs. Morehead State (PFL) Welcome Stadium L, 22-15
10/14/06 at Jacksonville (PFL) Jacksonville, FL L, 28-21
10/21/06 at Davidson (PFL) Davidson, NC L, 37-36
10/28/06 vs. Drake (PFL) Welcome Stadium L, 21-9
11/04/06 vs. Valparaiso (PFL) Welcome Stadium W, 51-7
11/11/06 at San Diego (PFL) San Diego, CA L, 56-14

[DUPFLFan]

I knew when he asked about the Ivy AQ that he would try and steer the thread to the PFL and... voila... it's Pity Party time again!

No pity party Ralph, and I do not appreciate your tone here. The attitude that you displayed with your post is indicative of the prevailing sentement of many of the posters and one that DF, myself and others are trying to overcome.

This is a discussion board isn't it? I asked a question in order to gain the opinions of the posters and to point out the Hypocrisy of some of the posters ways of thinking.

What I am saying is that Ivy League football over the last two years is no better than the PFL. Yet most feel that there should be an autobid for the IVY.. Based on what???

89Hen - SD is also 2-1 in the last two years. The PFL is getting better as a league and I believe will be starting improve their schedules and win more and more in the near future.

[CCU97]

No pity party Ralph, and I do not appreciate your tone here. The attitude that you displayed with your post is indicative of the prevailing sentement of many of the posters and one that DF, myself and others are trying to overcome.

This is a discussion board isn't it? I asked a question in order to gain the opinions of the posters and to point out the Hypocrisy of some of the posters ways of thinking.

What I am saying is that Ivy League football over the last two years is no better than the PFL. Yet most feel that there should be an autobid for the IVY.. Based on what???

89Hen - SD is also 2-1 in the last two years. The PFL is getting better as a league and I believe will be starting improve their schedules and win more and more in the near future.

Ok...so wouldn't this discussion have more merrit in the near future than right now? 2-1 doesn't prove anything....bulk up the conference's (as a whole) OOC schedule and then bring this discussion up...this would be like Coastal saying they Big South should be an AQ (even though we don't have the required # of teams) since we had the #7 conference GPI this year....one year or even two does not make a powerful conference! Bring it on a consistent basis and people will pay attention.:twocents:

[OL FU]

Since the PFL has improved and since Davidson went 6-4 this year, I think it is time for them to rejoin the SoCon in football.

[lizrdgizrd]

What I am saying is that Ivy League football over the last two years is no better than the PFL. Yet most feel that there should be an autobid for the IVY.. Based on what???

Must be those other 100 years or so of football they've been playing. xcoffeex

[DetroitFlyer]

Next season, we have added Fordham, at Fordham and we play at Robert Morris, a team that will have thier scholarship players more integrated into their team. Division III Wittenberg has been replaced by Division II, Central State. Not my favorite, but better than a Division III game.... The PFL is working to get better and schedule better. The Flyers had a down year, no doubt about it, but I think we will rebound in a year or two. By the way, how did Furman do in it's first round playoff game? Yeah, I'm pretty confident that USD could have performed as well as Furman did in the first round...! And guess what, Dayton just completed its 101st year of playing football!!

[DUPFLFan]

Lizrd - you also must have missed the 113 years of Drake football...

http://www.drakebulldogs.org/football/1124468492.pdf

[OL FU]

Next season, we have added Fordham, at Fordham and we play at Robert Morris, a team that will have thier scholarship players more integrated into their team. Division III Wittenberg has been replaced by Division II, Central State. Not my favorite, but better than a Division III game.... The PFL is working to get better and schedule better. The Flyers had a down year, no doubt about it, but I think we will rebound in a year or two. By the way, how did Furman do in it's first round playoff game? Yeah, I'm pretty confident that USD could have performed as well as Furman did in the first round...! And guess what, Dayton just completed its 101st year of playing football!!

I don't disagree with you But San Diego having a couple of good years does not make the PFL auto qualifier worthy.

It is really a tiresome and ridiculous point. The NCAA should be ashamed making you guys play in a division where competing year in and year out is impossible.

[lizrdgizrd]

Next season, we have added Fordham, at Fordham and we play at Robert Morris, a team that will have thier scholarship players more integrated into their team. Division III Wittenberg has been replaced by Division II, Central State. Not my favorite, but better than a Division III game.... The PFL is working to get better and schedule better. The Flyers had a down year, no doubt about it, but I think we will rebound in a year or two. By the way, how did Furman do in it's first round playoff game? Yeah, I'm pretty confident that USD could have performed as well as Furman did in the first round...! And guess what, Dayton just completed its 101st year of playing football!!
Well, if your league keeps scheduling better competition maybe you'll get your autobid in 10 or 20 years.

I'm sure all your PFL teams could do as well as Furman and loose a first round playoff game. That's hardly an endorsement of your worthiness to be in the playoffs. xcoffeex

[lizrdgizrd]

Lizrd - you also must have missed the 113 years of Drake football...

http://www.drakebulldogs.org/football/1124468492.pdf
Yay for Drake and Dayton! :hurray:

[89Hen]

What I am saying is that Ivy League football over the last two years is no better than the PFL....

89Hen - SD is also 2-1 in the last two years. The PFL is getting better as a league and I believe will be starting improve their schedules and win more and more in the near future.
USD is getting better, I wouldn't say the PFL is. And to say the PFL is as good as the Ivy? Please. You mention the last two years...

UNI 48 - Drake 7
UNI 52 - Drake 17
IllSt 56 - Drake 19
Gardner Webb 49 - Jacksonville 14
Southeastern LA 41 - Jacksonville 13
WIU 31 - Morehead 7
GSU 63 - Morehead 17
VMI 20 - Davidson 19
VMI 33 - Davidson 0
Davidson 10 - Georgetown 3

Again, unless I'm missing something, Davidson hanging with VMI and beating Georgetown aren't exactly games to hang the PFL hat on.

When you do improve the schedule and win more and more, then come back as ask why you're not in the playoffs. However I don't expect this will ever happen because there are only three options that could happen...

1. The PFL won't improve their collective schedule.

2. The PFL will improve their collective schedule, but not have any more success.

3. The PFL will improve their collective schedule and will have more success and will therefore put a team in the playoffs.

I don't see any other option. While people like you and DetroitFlyer like to think there's some great conspiracy out there to keep you out of the playoffs, you only need to look at your own AD's and teams to find the real answers.

[89Hen]

By the way, how did Furman do in it's first round playoff game? Yeah, I'm pretty confident that USD could have performed as well as Furman did in the first round...!
What a jackass statement. There are 8 games and there are 8 losers in the first round every year. Because USD could be one of the 8 losers, they should have gotten a bid. :nonono2: :nonono2: xidiotx xidiotx