Patriot League Pick 'em - Week 6

[carney2]

Is this season over? It feels like it.

Brown @ HOLY CROSS
COLGATE @ Princeton
FORDHAM @ Penn
LEHIGH @ BUCKNELL
LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN

GAME OF THE WEEK: Lehigh @ Bucknell. Two teams that need to show something – NOW.

OOC:
Total: 14-15
vs. AAC: 0-1
vs. Big South: 2-0
vs. CAA: 1-6
vs. FBS Independent: 1-0
vs. Ivy: 5-6
vs. NEC: 2-2
vs. Pioneer: 2-0
vs. Southern 1-0

[carney2]

This has sorted itself into a three tier League:

THE WINNER - Fordham
And it's all about coaching - all phases of coaching - isn't it?

SCUFFLING FOR SECOND - Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross
And none particularly distinguishing themselves as yet.

FIGHTING FOR THE BASEMENT - Georgetown, Lafayette, Lehigh
And each embarrassingly incompetent in their own unique way.

[bonarae]

Holy Cross
Princeton
Fordham
Lehigh - shootout?
Lafayette

[Pard4Life]

Colgate Princeton could be interesting.

Bucknell Lehigh the only other worth even watching.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Colgate at Princeton is the GOTW imo. If Colgate wants to be taken seriously then win the game. Otherwise they're no better off than Lehigh and Lafayette imo. 1-2 vs Ivies, 1-4 OOC? Yuck...

Lehigh vs Bucknell is two teams going nowhere. Bucknell has a better record because their OOC schedule is a joke....

[CFBfan]

Colgate Princeton could be interesting.

Bucknell Lehigh the only other worth even watching.

gate has yet to play 4 quarters: in their last 3 games they gave a W to yale in the 2nd 1/2, didn't show up in the 1st 1/2 @ holy cross and almost gave a W to cornell after being up 21 points.....if they don't play 4 quarters @ Princeton it will be ugly!

the one thing we'll learn from bucknell-LU is who really sux this year

[bison137]

Bucknell Lehigh the only other worth even watching.



I assume that All-PL RB CJ Williams will not be playing for Bucknell. He took a vicious blind-side hit in the head/upper body reaching for a short pass and was down on the field for an extended period before being helped off. If he does not play, that is a big loss for BU.

[ngineer]

I assume that All-PL RB CJ Williams will not be playing for Bucknell. He took a vicious blind-side hit in the head/upper body reaching for a short pass and was down on the field for an extended period before being helped off. If he does not play, that is a big loss for BU.

Doesn't matter as far as impact on Bucknell ability to run. Yale had a second stringer gash Lehigh for 233 yards yesterday. This a must win for Lehigh or the flush will begin.

[Southsider]

Doesn't matter as far as impact on Bucknell ability to run. Yale had a second stringer gash Lehigh for 233 yards yesterday. This a must win for Lehigh or the flush will begin.

Bucky will be ready because their coach will have them ready! LU has no such luxury. BU 31-17.

[Fordham]

I assume that All-PL RB CJ Williams will not be playing for Bucknell. He took a vicious blind-side hit in the head/upper body reaching for a short pass and was down on the field for an extended period before being helped off. If he does not play, that is a big loss for BU.
Hope he's ok, 137

[carney2]

This a must win for Lehigh or the flush will begin.

The flush began long ago. The defense has not been fixed from last year and the year before. Shafnisky is not a(n) FCS quarterback. If there are bright spots, you need to look behind the curtain. Those dejectedly predicting 6-5 are expecting this bunch to win 4 out of the last 6. Not gonna happen.

[carney2]

Brown @ HOLY CROSS – Shouldn’t matter which bunch of ‘saders shows up for this one.

COLGATE @ Princeton – Repeat after me: Princeton has a good team.

FORDHAM @ Penn – I still think the Penn-Villanova score was a typo.

LEHIGH @ BUCKNELL – A bad team vs. a disappointing team: pick one.

LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN – A trap game for the Pards, as they are between humiliating blowouts.

[carney2]

The sorry state of Patriot League football begins at the top. We have, for instance, three head coaches who would not be drawing pay checks at institutions or in a conference that gave a rat’s rear end about football, and factored performance into job evaluations. Yet these three have the following probabilities of still being on the field when spring practice begins:

Coen = 90%+
Gilmore = 70%+
Tavani = 100%

All three have had their moments but today could not organize a woodpecker picnic in Sherwood Forest. All work for institutions that consider intercollegiate athletics a freakish side show that is unbecoming of colleges of their stature. Releasing employees for reasons other than failure to publish and breeches of the politically correct code is unacceptable. Beyond the people who frequent boards like this you have to ask if there really is anyone who cares.

[KillaBee]

The Leopards by 22 over Georgetown. They will will regroup and WIN. Be re energized to pull out a decent season. Get ready for the winning streak!!!!!!! It will be amazing!!

[ColgateTD]

It's cold and raining up here and generally a depressing day. The only upbeat and humorous thing to look forward to is Carney's posts. He never disappoints.

[Gater]

I root for Colgate first and foremost but am becoming a big fan of KillaBee.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Holy Cross- my pick dooms the Crusaders
Princeton-
Fordham-
Bucknell-
Lafayette-at the FiOS Bowl

[Engineer86]

Holy Cross
Princeton
Fordham
Lehigh - shootout?
Lafayette

Shootout? What? Oh, ok I assume you have not watched our games. Trust me after a few games any of us could defend LUs offense

[Engineer86]

Doesn't matter as far as impact on Bucknell ability to run. Yale had a second stringer gash Lehigh for 233 yards yesterday. This a must win for Lehigh or the flush will begin.

Um, hey can you give me a hand, my view of this season/program is already in the septic system.

[Engineer86]

The sorry state of Patriot League football begins at the top. We have, for instance, three head coaches who would not be drawing pay checks at institutions or in a conference that gave a rat’s rear end about football, and factored performance into job evaluations. Yet these three have the following probabilities of still being on the field when spring practice begins:

Coen = 90%+
Gilmore = 70%+
Tavani = 100%

All three have had their moments but today could not organize a woodpecker picnic in Sherwood Forest. All work for institutions that consider intercollegiate athletics a freakish side show that is unbecoming of colleges of their stature. Releasing employees for reasons other than failure to publish and breeches of the politically correct code is unacceptable. Beyond the people who frequent boards like this you have to ask if there really is anyone who cares.

My only hope is a new president that might surprise me with his perspective. ... I have to have hope.

[Pards Rule]

It's cold and raining up here and generally a depressing day. The only upbeat and humorous thing to look forward to is Carney's posts. He never disappoints.

Sounds like a good day to hit the Saxbys on Lebanon Street!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Just let me point this out - LSN reports that Georgetown - once again - has REFUSED to permit Lafayette's play-by-play team to call this weekend's game. Gary Laubach and Mike Joseph have been FORBIDDEN ENTRY to Multi-Sport Field. They can't even access the campus.

Gotta love those Hoyas.

Were I still an AGS poster, I'd rant all week long on this one. With colorful graphics and incendiary cartoons. Too bad.






http://i61.tinypic.com/a1s26b.jpg

[Engineer86]

Just let me point this out - LSN reports that Georgetown - once again - has REFUSED to permit Lafayette's play-by-play team to call this weekend's game. Gary Laubach and Mike Joseph have been FORBIDDEN ENTRY to Multi-Sport Field. They can't even access the campus.

Gotta love those Hoyas.

Were I still an AGS poster, I'd rant all week long on this one. With colorful graphics and incendiary cartoons. Too bad.





http://i61.tinypic.com/a1s26b.jpg




I hope you will be around to rant about the dung pile championship on Nov 21. LU is favored by 3 based on uniforms.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I hope you will be around to rant about the dung pile championship on Nov 21. LU is favored by 3 based on uniforms.

Lafayette-Georgetown is a much easier rant. Those guys don't fight back like you guys do. It's a shame they refuse to acknowledge even the existence of a rivalry with Lafayette - or with any PL team, for that matter.

Something to do with "peers," I think. xnottalkingx

[Go...gate]

One of the understandings in being a member of a conference, even an Associate Member, is that you play nicely with the other conference members. That GU repeatedly does not allow the LSN people to cover their school is inexplicable.

[DFW HOYA]

Just let me point this out - LSN reports that Georgetown - once again - has REFUSED to permit Lafayette's play-by-play team to call this weekend's game. Gary Laubach and Mike Joseph have been FORBIDDEN ENTRY to Multi-Sport Field. They can't even access the campus.


That's silly. Unless someone is on a DHS watch list or somesuch, no one is banned from campus. There are better ways to stir up the Easton faithful than this kind of cheap heat.

[Gangtackle11]

Brown @ HOLY CROSS - The Crusaders take it to the Bruins. Over by half. HC 42-14
COLGATE @ Princeton - Hard to defense a team with QBs all over the field on any play. Princeton 20-17
FORDHAM @ Penn - Penn beat Nova, Nova beat Fordham. Nah. Fordham 27-6
LEHIGH @ BUCKNELL - I have no idea. I'll say Mountain Hawks on a Steve Kreider TD catch. Lehigh 31-28
LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN - Battle of the cellar dwellars. Lafayette 13-10


Last Week: 6-0 Season: 25-6

[Bogus Megapardus]

That's silly. Unless someone is on a DHS watch list or somesuch, no one is banned from campus. There are better ways to stir up the Easton faithful than this kind of cheap heat.
Not so. Lafayette's play-by-play announcer, Gary Laubach, reported on the air at the end of the Fordham-Lafayette broadcast that the LSN crew is BARRED from calling the Lafayette-Georgetown game, "due to construction, or something." The same construction that has been going on for fifteen years or whatever. xconfusedx Like it will ever end.

It's so nice that Georgetown beat Columbia a couple of weeks ago. An Ivy team, no less. Gee f'ing whiz, fellas. Peers, right? Isn't that what you guys call them? With that, I guess the Hoyas feel as if they can pull this kind of crap on Lafayette and its ilk with impunity, or something.

FYI - the Pards (unlike Georgetown) have been playing Columbia consistently for 125 years. In all that time, the Lions never, ever have won a game in Easton. Not one. And yet Lafayette never, ever has forbidden a Columbia broadcast crew of any kind from its campus. They've always been welcome, as has every other broadcast crew.

So I declare hereby that this amounts to an EXACT REPLAY of Georgetown's repugnant FiOS-GATE fiasco. You are warned. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. xcoffeex



NB: Umm . . . I suppose we sort of banned Penn's pep band that one time or something like that, IIRC, but that's different. (Maybe Columbia's band, too, I guess.) xcoolx But unlike us, it's not like you guys actually ever beat Penn or anything like that. So there. And yeah, in addition to Penn and Columbia, we've beaten Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Cornell, Princeton and Brown, too. Count 'em - that's all eight. So check back when Georgetown has done the same. xblahx Until then, I suggest the Hoyas keep their disheveled, latrine-like, so-called "broadcast booth" open to "lesser" opponents such as its PL league-mates. Or does Georgetown forbid Lafayette exclusively . . . ? xrolleyesx

[Bogus Megapardus]

OK, that's my nonsensical, uncalled-for Georgetown rant. Do I get to come back? Or is more required . . . ?

[BucBisonAtLarge]

OK, that's my nonsensical, uncalled-for Georgetown rant. Do I get to come back? Or is more required . . . ?

Well, it is only Sunday... just one gratuitous rant seems... skimpy (though truly welcome). Carry on.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Well, it is only Sunday... just one gratuitous rant seems... skimpy (though truly welcome). Carry on.
I concede it was not my best effort. My bad.

I'm going to have to re-arm and amass some more firepower. There's no dearth of fodder on the Georgetown side.

BTW - nice win at VMI. Hoyas never would have pulled that off. Not in a million.

[Ivytalk]

Brown @ HOLY CROSS – Shouldn’t matter which bunch of ‘saders shows up for this one.

COLGATE @ Princeton – Repeat after me: Princeton has a good team.

FORDHAM @ Penn – I still think the Penn-Villanova score was a typo.

LEHIGH @ BUCKNELL – A bad team vs. a disappointing team: pick one.

LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN – A trap game for the Pards, as they are between humiliating blowouts.

I'm going with the grizzled veteran, carney2!

[Bogus Megapardus]

LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN – A trap game for the Pards, as they are between humiliating blowouts.


I'm going with the grizzled veteran, carney2!

IvyTalk chooses his targets very wisely.
 
 
 

[ngineer]

The sorry state of Patriot League football begins at the top. We have, for instance, three head coaches who would not be drawing pay checks at institutions or in a conference that gave a rat’s rear end about football, and factored performance into job evaluations. Yet these three have the following probabilities of still being on the field when spring practice begins:

Coen = 90%+
Gilmore = 70%+
Tavani = 100%

All three have had their moments but today could not organize a woodpecker picnic in Sherwood Forest. All work for institutions that consider intercollegiate athletics a freakish side show that is unbecoming of colleges of their stature. Releasing employees for reasons other than failure to publish and breeches of the politically correct code is unacceptable. Beyond the people who frequent boards like this you have to ask if there really is anyone who cares.

Finding it hard to disagree with you....smh!!

[ngineer]

Um, hey can you give me a hand, my view of this season/program is already in the septic system.

The reason being we have not played a league game as yet. You are dealing with many different factors each week with one of the primary being young guys who have a habit of inconsistency. Any given Saturday surprises occur. I don't disagree that Lehigh appears to be in disarray, much due to injuries that have some very green and undersized players out there, but compounded by what appears to be the coaching staff's failure to be make adjustments. I've been around this game too long to throw in the towel until the fat lady has sung. She's only in the wings. We shall see what the team is made of this week.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The reason being we have not played a league game as yet. You are dealing with many different factors each week with one of the primary being young guys who have a habit of inconsistency. Any given Saturday surprises occur. I don't disagree that Lehigh appears to be in disarray, much due to injuries that have some very green and undersized players out there, but compounded by what appears to be the coaching staff's failure to be make adjustments. I've been around this game too long to throw in the towel until the fat lady has sung. She's only in the wings. We shall see what the team is made of this week.
I wish I could be as optimistic about my Pards, ngineer. I'm starting to think the fat lady already has fallen through the bleachers. :(

[ngineer]

Crusaders need to tack onto the momentum last week's big win has given the. Crusaders, 37-14

Colgate defense runs into the Tigger's buzz saw. Raiders come close, but come up short. Tigers 35-29

Fordham can get burned if caught looking ahead. Penn brought back to Earth by Dartmouth. Hard to figure out. Going with the PL in this one, Rams 35-17

LU very erratic, inconsistent, and thin with injuries. Coen needs to light a fire under the team and his staff. LU has been a 'no-show' the last two years with the Bison. Another one, and wagons will be circling on Goodman Campus. I hear the old theme song from "Wagon Train" wafting in the background. Bison, 31-24.

Leotards have stretch marks after last weeks goring by the Rams. Bulldogs also licking their....wounds. MSF may need some fumigation after this stinker. Hoyas at home, 10-9.

[RichH2]

OK, that's my nonsensical, uncalled-for Georgetown rant. Do I get to come back? Or is more required . . . ?
Just out of practice,but quite adequate for a Hoya rant. Lacking photoshop and gratuitous latin phrases does mark it below your usual standard :):)

[jimbo65]

Holy Cross
Princeton
Fordham
Lehigh toss up but I picked Lehigh since I am used to picking them over the years.
Lafayette

[PAllen]

Hard to argue with Carney's picks. +1 for me.

[carney2]

I wish I could be as optimistic about my Pards, ngineer. I'm starting to think the fat lady already has fallen through the bleachers. :(

Even the fat lady doesn't give a crap about Lafayette football anymore. Four absolutely humiliating blowouts (and that's what it will be after Harvard slaps them around like so many whining little girls next week) should never happen to a program with any ounce of "pride and passion." I don't care if your OOC = the SEC, this should never happen. Bad coaching + atrocious recruiting + bad attitudes + ... = The train wreck that we see each and every Saturday. There is no reason to support a program that is so consistently bad and does nothing to correct the problems.

[4211LBLS]

LC has some serious leadership voids. Kids not coming back for 5th year, some seniors laying down. Coaches changing schemes and game plans looking for any edge but the inexperience combined with limited senior leadership makes it tough. Redshirt rule doesn't help plus no grad school. Better for kids to go ahead and graduate and then start grad school and play their 5th year somewhere else.

[CFBfan]

LC has some serious leadership voids. Kids not coming back for 5th year, some seniors laying down. Coaches changing schemes and game plans looking for any edge but the inexperience combined with limited senior leadership makes it tough. Redshirt rule doesn't help plus no grad school. Better for kids to go ahead and graduate and then start grad school and play their 5th year somewhere else.

that's a league wide issue 4211 and sadly most PL programs suffer from average to poor coaching

[4211LBLS]

Even the fat lady doesn't give a crap about Lafayette football anymore. Four absolutely humiliating blowouts (and that's what it will be after Harvard slaps them around like so many whining little girls next week) should never happen to a program with any ounce of "pride and passion." I don't care if your OOC = the SEC, this should never happen. Bad coaching + atrocious recruiting + bad attitudes + ... = The train wreck that we see each and every Saturday. There is no reason to support a program that is so consistently bad and does nothing to correct the problems.

The issues are at the very top. Complaining about the coach or the AD is futile. Athletic success is simply not a focus for LC leadership. Coaches made some great adjustments recently. Recruiting, especially the last 2 classes is good, very good actually. You are correct on some attitudes. Team has their share of cancers.

[KillaBee]

The fat lady has been shut down, The Leopards will win the battle of the cellar. At some point the only way to go is UP. I refuse to believe that little girls suit up and play football. The OCC games were losses, and yes they lost. I always respect your loyalty but I do have to share with you that the Leopards will win Saturday. Even a garbage can gets a steak,,,, and a broken clock is right twice a day. Its the Leopards week. I'm predicting at least by 24. I am hoping by 58..
OOPS the the prediction has gone up... the Leopards will win by 33..

[4211LBLS]

that's a league wide issue 4211 and sadly most PL programs suffer from average to poor coaching

We all know that on the redshirt issue. Easier just to graduate and go somewhere else. Thank you.

[van]

Brown @ HOLY CROSS – assuming the good crossers show, they are still a mystery to me

COLGATE @ Princeton – tigger with a lot of weapons on O and an experienced D at home

FORDHAM @ Penn - Rams getting on a roll and well coached

Lehigh@ BUCKNELL - unless we've been doing the rope a dope we have not improved much from last years anemia

LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN – could be ugly but Pards should eke out a win

[carney2]

The issues are at the very top.

All too true. Tavani got on a roll from 2004 thru 2008 and the administration castrated him.

[Franks Tanks]

The issues are at the very top. Complaining about the coach or the AD is futile. Athletic success is simply not a focus for LC leadership. Coaches made some great adjustments recently. Recruiting, especially the last 2 classes is good, very good actually. You are correct on some attitudes. Team has their share of cancers.

Agree that recruiting has been solid the past 2 years.

We have some quality coaches. I don't deny that is the case, some of them are pro's and no doubt come up with some excellent game plans and schemes. However, the group as currently constructed just doesn't seem to mesh. It just isn't working, and hasn't for roughly 6 years, except for a brief stretch here and there.

We've had bad attitudes seemingly forever. Every year it is something- suspensions, drama, leadership issues etc. The Lafayette football team is like a junior high cheerleading squad.

The AD, and head coach must take the large portion of the blame. They have enough resources to be better than we have performed the last few years. Frank will now have 9 losing season our of 16 (plus one 6-6). The redshirting is just another excuse. Fordham and Princeton don't redshirt either, and they beat us by a combined score of 75-14. We have been outscored 109- 21 overall on our home field this year, and we didn't even play Harvard yet. We are not competitive. Meanwhile another team in our league, who have perhaps less support from the admin, just beat a CAA school 37-0. Our situation is not acceptable for a school that will providing 60 full scholarships (4 by boosters I understand), has an awesome field and field house and can sell a Patriot League education. Some of us got excited we beat Wagner. We should not be excited about beating one of the worst teams in the NEC.

Fact is LC will not have a winning season until Frank and the whole staff are gone (I like Mickey and Art Link, but we can do better for next HC). If you think they deserve 2,3, 4 more years, than we will continue to see what we have seen the last 6 years. Wildly inconsistent and mistake prone football, and 2-5 win seasons.

[Franks Tanks]

All too true. Tavani got on a roll from 2004 thru 2008 and the administration castrated him.

I gave Frank a pass for a few years there where he had a really poor class or two due to $ (2010 and 2011 mostly), but those kids have been gone for several years. There are 2 main reasons why Frank had a great run at that time- Bob Heffner and Mike Faragalli. John Loose did a great job with the D as well. Mike is/was a very good OC, and Bob Heffner is the one man in the universe who Frank listened to.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

People are saying Lafayette's recruiting has been great for the last two years. The Patsies, if memory serves, said that Lafayette had a top recruiting class a couple years ago and a ho-hum, middle-of-the-road one last year.

[Franks Tanks]

People are saying Lafayette's recruiting has been great for the last two years. The Patsies, if memory serves, said that Lafayette had a top recruiting class a couple years ago and a ho-hum, middle-of-the-road one last year.

The Patsy ratings mean less than nothing. They are a fun diversion as Carney likes to say, but have zero correlation with the actual quality of a class.

[Bill]

Picking up steam, standing at 22-9 overall....

Brown @ HOLY CROSS - the crusaders get back on "track"...The cross, 32-17.
COLGATE @ Princeton - Princeton's rise continues, but Colgate puts up more of a fight than the Lehigh Valley twins of ineptitude. Tiggers, 28-20.
FORDHAM @ Penn - Fordham pulls away late, 41-21.
LEHIGH @ BUCKNELL - I may not pick Lehigh to win again this year. Bucky, 36-24.
LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN - FIOS be dammed, I think the Frankosaurus finds a way NOT to screw this up. Leppers, 16-10.

[crusader11]

4-2 last week to move to 21-10 on the season.

Holy Cross
Princeton
Fordham
Lehigh
Lafayette

[eiu1999]

BROWN@ HOLY CROSS
COLGATE @ PRINCETON
FORDHAM @ PENN
LEHIGH @ BUCKNELL
LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN

[BucBisonAtLarge]

My esteemed colleagues:
The five schools have not fully implemented their 60-scholarship regimes. Let's not start blaming the red-shirt restrictions just yet. In 2011, with years of schollies, Fordham went 1-10. In 2012, the Rams finished 6-5, 3-3 in the Patriot League, against non-scholarship teams. There does seem to be something in this transition to be mastered. For these administrations, that recently bit the bullet and made the financial decision to proceed with talent scholarships, whining about the tight red-shirt policy has got to sound like excuse-making.

Having 2-3 or 1-4 team that has under-performed against tough competition sucks. Having a 3-1 record against a weaker schedule is better, for sure. There may be the same amount of uncertainty and hope going into this week of play. For Bucknell, being able to defeat Lehigh for a third year in a row would be a big milestone.

[DFW HOYA]

My esteemed colleagues:
The five schools have not fully implemented their 60-scholarship regimes. Let's not start blaming the red-shirt restrictions just yet. In 2011, with years of schollies, Fordham went 1-10. In 2012, the Rams finished 6-5, 3-3 in the Patriot League, against non-scholarship teams. There does seem to be something in this transition to be mastered. For these administrations, that recently bit the bullet and made the financial decision to proceed with talent scholarships, whining about the tight red-shirt policy has got to sound like excuse-making.


Also worth noting: at least two of these teams are still going to finish under .500.

[Fordham]

My esteemed colleagues:
The five schools have not fully implemented their 60-scholarship regimes. Let's not start blaming the red-shirt restrictions just yet. In 2011, with years of schollies, Fordham went 1-10. In 2012, the Rams finished 6-5, 3-3 in the Patriot League, against non-scholarship teams. There does seem to be something in this transition to be mastered. For these administrations, that recently bit the bullet and made the financial decision to proceed with talent scholarships, whining about the tight red-shirt policy has got to sound like excuse-making.

Having 2-3 or 1-4 team that has under-performed against tough competition sucks. Having a 3-1 record against a weaker schedule is better, for sure. There may be the same amount of uncertainty and hope going into this week of play. For Bucknell, being able to defeat Lehigh for a third year in a row would be a big milestone.
I agree with the overall point of waiting to evaluate. The only question I have though, is 'what financial decision did these administrators bite the bullet and make?' For us it was as simple as taking the same exact budget and simply allowing it to be used for merit rather than strictly need-based aid. That's not any type of colossal commitment to success on our part. Just a more effective use of the dollars we were already spending. I do think other schools may have been accounting for things differently so my question is a serious one.

If you go back to the posts from just before, to during and after the time when we made the move to scholarships you will see that my posts always referenced that they will help but they will not be a panacea for every program. I stand by that after seeing what we've gone through and what the other schools are going through as well. Coaching, both game day and recruiting, remains far and away the most important thing. I have no doubt that Joe Moorhead would have had great success at a need-based aid Fordham but I also have no doubt that he would tell you he has gotten better talent here with scholarships than he would have otherwise as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Patsy ratings mean less than nothing. They are a fun diversion as Carney likes to say, but have zero correlation with the actual quality of a class.

As carney himself will tell you the Patsies are "for entertainment purposes only".

[ColgateTD]

Holy Cross - Crusaders have found their groove
Fordham - Not as close as some posters think
Bucknell - Bison will show some of the grit they had last season
Pards - I see Leopards coming out of their shell after great pep talk by Frank
Princeton - A 31-30 loss in Hamilton last year has been festering for 12 months. Gate has improved but playing at Tigertown one never can count P'ton for a L. Besides I want to keep my season's record almost perfect. Hope this is reverse psychology.

6-0 last week; 17 - 1 on the season (absent for a couple weeks)

[van]

I agree with the overall point of waiting to evaluate. The only question I have though, is 'what financial decision did these administrators bite the bullet and make?' For us it was as simple as taking the same exact budget and simply allowing it to be used for merit rather than strictly need-based aid. That's not any type of colossal commitment to success on our part. Just a more effective use of the dollars we were already spending. I do think other schools may have been accounting for things differently so my question is a serious one.

If you go back to the posts from just before, to during and after the time when we made the move to scholarships you will see that my posts always referenced that they will help but they will not be a panacea for every program. I stand by that after seeing what we've gone through and what the other schools are going through as well. Coaching, both game day and recruiting, remains far and away the most important thing. I have no doubt that Joe Moorhead would have had great success at a need-based aid Fordham but I also have no doubt that he would tell you he has gotten better talent here with scholarships than he would have otherwise as well.

+1

[the last indian]

I think I will go out on a limb and predict that the Red Raiders will upset the Pussy Cats. If we play like we did for 3 quarters at Cornell for the whole game, we will be hard to stop. Cornell is much better than their record but we dominated for 3 quarters. We need to pay that way for the entire game. Our defense is better than last year when we beat them.

[CFBfan]

I think I will go out on a limb and predict that the Red Raiders will upset the Pussy Cats. If we play like we did for 3 quarters at Cornell for the whole game, we will be hard to stop. Cornell is much better than their record but we dominated for 3 quarters. We need to pay that way for the entire game. Our defense is better than last year when we beat them.

BIG if indian, raiders have yet to put a full game together! tigers are better than they were last year and I'm not so sure about gate defense!
average DL, 2 good LB's 1 average at best LB and 1 bad LB, decent secondary but can't covert the flats and got lit up by cornell especially #10

[carney2]

The Patsy ratings mean less than nothing. They are a fun diversion as Carney likes to say, but have zero correlation with the actual quality of a class.

True and not true. They are a fun diversion, but "zero correlation," ... not so much. Not my baby anymore, but I will say again that, despite the literally mountains of work that it took, I knuckled under to the naysayers (who could suggest nothing better than "let's wait and see" or "look at the kid's 3 play recruiting video") some years ago (2009? 2010? can't remember) and did a 3 or 4 year look back. I can't remember the exact methodology, but I assigned highest weight to seniors, less to juniors, and less still to sophomores on each roster. Freshmen, as I recall, got no consideration under the theory that they were minimum contributors. The result was an almost PERFECT correlation between the Patsies and the final Patriot League order of finish for each of the years examined.

It may not be perfect, but (a) it's the best we have, and (b) it's a heluva lot better than zero correlation.

[bison137]

True and not true. They are a fun diversion, but "zero correlation," ... not so much. Not my baby anymore, but I will say again that, despite the literally mountains of work that it took, I knuckled under to the naysayers (who could suggest nothing better than "let's wait and see" or "look at the kid's 3 play recruiting video") some years ago (2009? 2010? can't remember) and did a 3 or 4 year look back. I can't remember the exact methodology, but I assigned highest weight to seniors, less to juniors, and less still to sophomores on each roster. Freshmen, as I recall, got no consideration under the theory that they were minimum contributors. The result was an almost PERFECT correlation between the Patsies and the final Patriot League order of finish for each of the years examined.

It may not be perfect, but (a) it's the best we have, and (b) it's a heluva lot better than zero correlation.


I haven't looked at other teams, but I know that they have been way off in terms of the recent Bucknell recruiting classes. For example, the current BU junior class might be the best scholarship class brought in by anyone other than Fordham - yet it was viewed as a very mediocre class in the Patsy ratings. And the next class is working out well for Bucknell but was dead last, by a wide margin, in the Patsy ratings.

One issue is that for Bucknell, the number of stars for a player has actually been inversely correlated to how well they end up playing. Many of the top guys - players who made All-PL, had no stars - while most of the two star players haven't ended up playing vey well.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I agree with the overall point of waiting to evaluate. The only question I have though, is 'what financial decision did these administrators bite the bullet and make?' For us it was as simple as taking the same exact budget and simply allowing it to be used for merit rather than strictly need-based aid. That's not any type of colossal commitment to success on our part. Just a more effective use of the dollars we were already spending. I do think other schools may have been accounting for things differently so my question is a serious one.

If you go back to the posts from just before, to during and after the time when we made the move to scholarships you will see that my posts always referenced that they will help but they will not be a panacea for every program. I stand by that after seeing what we've gone through and what the other schools are going through as well. Coaching, both game day and recruiting, remains far and away the most important thing. I have no doubt that Joe Moorhead would have had great success at a need-based aid Fordham but I also have no doubt that he would tell you he has gotten better talent here with scholarships than he would have otherwise as well.

I can see your point but please try out these arguments on the Georgetown administration.

[Fordham]

I can see your point but please try out these arguments on the Georgetown administration.

?

I just wrote what I wrote because it's a pet peeve to see many posts here and elsewhere that reference how we have ramped up our commitment to football, must be thinking of going FBS or at least moving up in conferences (nod to DFW), etc. as though we have some mis-placed priorities and decided to shift budget money into the sport. We simply took what we were spending before and are now spending it more effectively by keeping ourselves from limiting the marketplace of available players. It's much easier to get better players as well as better students overall than it was before.

[CFBfan]

I haven't looked at other teams, but I know that they have been way off in terms of the recent Bucknell recruiting classes. For example, the current BU junior class might be the best scholarship class brought in by anyone other than Fordham - yet it was viewed as a very mediocre class in the Patsy ratings. And the next class is working out well for Bucknell but was dead last, by a wide margin, in the Patsy ratings.

One issue is that for Bucknell, the number of stars for a player has actually been inversely correlated to how well they end up playing. Many of the top guys - players who made All-PL, had no stars - while most of the two star players haven't ended up playing vey well.

and you base this on what??

[4211LBLS]

I agree with the overall point of waiting to evaluate. The only question I have though, is 'what financial decision did these administrators bite the bullet and make?' For us it was as simple as taking the same exact budget and simply allowing it to be used for merit rather than strictly need-based aid. That's not any type of colossal commitment to success on our part. Just a more effective use of the dollars we were already spending. I do think other schools may have been accounting for things differently so my question is a serious one.

If you go back to the posts from just before, to during and after the time when we made the move to scholarships you will see that my posts always referenced that they will help but they will not be a panacea for every program. I stand by that after seeing what we've gone through and what the other schools are going through as well. Coaching, both game day and recruiting, remains far and away the most important thing. I have no doubt that Joe Moorhead would have had great success at a need-based aid Fordham but I also have no doubt that he would tell you he has gotten better talent here with scholarships than he would have otherwise as well.

Exactly. Schools are using the same dollars, just under a different budget. And now making boosters clubs come up with more money. redshirting is not the problem. It hurts but its not THE problem. LC hasn't seen a budget increase since 2007. Scholarships will make the PL teams more competitive but they are not a magic wand. Long term I like where LC is headed, despite the administration and leadership. But still some pains to get through right now. And its not an AD issue. People complain about our AD but he does a good job with what he has. He knows the game, played at W&M, well qualified in all aspects. he isn't the issue. What does it say when your AD doesn't even report to the President? To excel at something it has to be a focus. On the overall picture, LC is seeing improvement in several other sports. I like the trend but this road sure is bumpy.

[RichH2]

Most schools are not exactly using the same dollars. Pre schollie,Lehigh was in the mid 50s,as was Gate,IIRC everyone else was substantially lower. Secondly,the biggest financial hurdle is TItle IX. Comparable aid to women's sports has to now actually be spent not just budgeted.

[bison137]

and you base this on what??


Facts. That class has already produced an OL who could become the first 4-time All-PL OL. Also a WR who made 1st team All-PL as a sophomore and was the most dangerous big-play receiver in the league as a sophomore. Also a RB who has made All-PL as a frosh and soph. Also 4/5ths of a solid OL. Also a good DT. Also the team's top CB and KR, although he has yet to play this year. Also a solid starting QB. Also a safety who started as a Soph. The class also included a very good kicker who unfortunately suffered a serious foot injury that may have ended his career.

[LeopardBall10]

Facts. That class has already produced an OL who could become the first 4-time All-PL OL. Also a WR who made 1st team All-PL as a sophomore and was the most dangerous big-play receiver in the league as a sophomore. Also a RB who has made All-PL as a frosh and soph. Also 4/5ths of a solid OL. Also a good DT. Also the team's top CB and KR, although he has yet to play this year. Also a solid starting QB. Also a safety who started as a Soph. The class also included a very good kicker who unfortunately suffered a serious foot injury that may have ended his career.

Not to be argumentative 137, but I think what CFBfan was getting at was more measurable. Of course the All-PL awards are a peice of that, but if we are going to be talking about correlations with something like the Patsy ratings, which are flawed but at least quantifiable then we will need to take a uniformed look at the success of a class. What Carney is saying is that looking at the Patsy ratings for past classes gives a correlation to this standard of success. I would be interested to know what standards he used to determine the success of each class, but that standard would then need to be applied to each Bucknell class to determine how "good" they are. Terms like "most dangerous big play receiver" and "a good DT" may be true but are not measurable for the sake of this conversation.

[RichH2]

Not to be argumentative 137, but I think what CFBfan was getting at was more measurable. Of course the All-PL awards are a peice of that, but if we are going to be talking about correlations with something like the Patsy ratings, which are flawed but at least quantifiable then we will need to take a uniformed look at the success of a class. What Carney is saying is that looking at the Patsy ratings for past classes gives a correlation to this standard of success. I would be interested to know what standards he used to determine the success of each class, but that standard would then need to be applied to each Bucknell class to determine how "good" they are. Terms like "most dangerous big play receiver" and "a good DT" may be true but are not measurable for the sake of this conversation.
Well put. Patsy rating do correlate 3-4 yrs out for team success. How well they will continue to do so in this new era will have to await another couple of years. Given Fordham's history,the current transition angst is not pleasant but also should not be surprising. It may well be that the "Moorhead"factor will need to be accounted for to get a fairly accurate measure of the future relevance of Patsys.

[CFBfan]

Facts. That class has already produced an OL who could become the first 4-time All-PL OL. Also a WR who made 1st team All-PL as a sophomore and was the most dangerous big-play receiver in the league as a sophomore. Also a RB who has made All-PL as a frosh and soph. Also 4/5ths of a solid OL. Also a good DT. Also the team's top CB and KR, although he has yet to play this year. Also a solid starting QB. Also a safety who started as a Soph. The class also included a very good kicker who unfortunately suffered a serious foot injury that may have ended his career.

Every PL team can claim this, it really doesn't prove out anything 137
the biggest differentiator you have is Susan is a better HC than what LU, LC, Gate & HC have running their shows

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Every Patsy class has guys that are ** that didn't become all-league and fog-a-mirror guys that come on and become all-League.

Worthy of mention though is Fordham had, um, some significant transfers that made them a much better team. Not knocking them, but when you can get a guy that probably should have been starting at UConn (Nebrich), and an FBS-level speed target that went to an NFL camp this summer (Tebucky Jones), that makes a huge difference. Even this year Moorhead isn't running the show with a home-grown quarterback.

When you combine an aggressive strategy for transfers AND get a *** RB in Edmonds from recruiting (as Moorhead did), that's the foundation for winning. For Fordham it is absolutely not all Patsy ratings. Moorhead has gotten very good transfer players that graduate in good standing, and paired them with (I think it fair to say) great recruiting.

What I'd honestly like to know is WTH happened to Fordham when they played Villanova the last two years. Are they blinded by the prospect of seeing Jay Wright or something?

[Fordham]

Stephen Hodge went from walk-on to DPOY as a junior fwiw.

As far as 'Nova, they're tough and there's likely some lessons from that tough, goofy D system they use in terms of how to stop us. Last year, though, it was all about the fact that Nebrich was still so close to when he had his ACL surgery that there's no way he should have been out there. He was tough as nails but could not move at all in that game. Once 'Nova realized it and saw him limping it was a wildlife show on the Serengeti and we were definitely the prey. This year you have to keep in mind that Robertson was still there and I would argue 'Nova would still be undefeated if he was playing and they'd still be top 5. The big rain slowed us down but they definitely beat us. Nonetheless, we still somehow had a shot to tie/win in the last 5 minutes of the game, so it's not like we were demolished (even though imo they handled us pretty well). It's only in retrospect after seeing Robinson go down and the loss to Penn that you'd ever ask that question.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Week 6 Sportsbook:

Harvard (-23) at Cornell o/u 53

Bucknell (-5) vs. Lehigh o/u 45

Princeton (-7) vs Colgate o/u 51

Fordham (-11½) at Penn o/u 62

Holy Cross (-7) vs. Brown o/u 55

Dartmouth (-12½) vs. Yale o/u 49

Lafayette (-1½) at Georgetown o/u 40

Wagner (-1) at Columbia o/u 42

* * * * * * * *

Other Games of Interest:

Delaware (-16) at Rhode Island o/u 44

William & Mary (-2) at Villanova o/u 44

Albany (-6) vs. Maine o/u 45

James Madison (-12) at Towson o/u 63

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Week 6 Sportsbook:

Harvard (-23) at Cornell o/u 53
James Madison (-12) at Towson o/u 63

Lines like these make me think about reconsidering my perennial ban on gambling. If I were a betting man, Cornell +23 and JMU -12...

[Franks Tanks]

Lines like these make me think about reconsidering my perennial ban on gambling. If I were a betting man, Cornell +23 and JMU -12...

I never gamble either, but I am really considering putting some money on the Harvard-Lafayette game. In favor of Harvard of course, unless the spread starts with a 4! We get trounced by Harvard every single year. This year we are really bad, and Harvard is really good. The Pards will lose that one by at least 28, and more like 35-40. Take Harvard to the bank.

[Bill]

Can I tease Lafayette and the over this week?;)

[Ivytalk]

For some reason, Cornell usually plays Harvard pretty tough, even when the Big Red suck. A 23-point spread on the road is generous. I see Harvard winning by 14-17 points, and it could be closer than that. I'll be there in person and will file a report!;)

[Pard4Life]

I never gamble either, but I am really considering putting some money on the Harvard-Lafayette game. In favor of Harvard of course, unless the spread starts with a 4! We get trounced by Harvard every single year. This year we are really bad, and Harvard is really good. The Pards will lose that one by at least 28, and more like 35-40. Take Harvard to the bank.

Focus. That's next week. We can't have a letdown this week. Double digits is our goal. Save the zero for next week.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Brown @ HOLY CROSS
COLGATE @ Princeton
FORDHAM @ Penn
LEHIGH @ BUCKNELL
LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN

[Pards Rule]

Stephen Hodge went from walk-on to DPOY as a junior fwiw.

As far as 'Nova, they're tough and there's likely some lessons from that tough, goofy D system they use in terms of how to stop us. Last year, though, it was all about the fact that Nebrich was still so close to when he had his ACL surgery that there's no way he should have been out there. He was tough as nails but could not move at all in that game. Once 'Nova realized it and saw him limping it was a wildlife show on the Serengeti and we were definitely the prey. This year you have to keep in mind that Robertson was still there and I would argue 'Nova would still be undefeated if he was playing and they'd still be top 5. The big rain slowed us down but they definitely beat us. Nonetheless, we still somehow had a shot to tie/win in the last 5 minutes of the game, so it's not like we were demolished (even though imo they handled us pretty well). It's only in retrospect after seeing Robinson go down and the loss to Penn that you'd ever ask that question.

And Stephen Hodge is a Shawnee (coach Time Gushue) product from Medford NJ!! My alma mater! Go Shawnee Renegades!

[the last indian]

Cornell is much better than their record. They have to learn how to win, but Hagy is a good RB and their passing attack is formidable, as we learned in the 4th quarter. This is a program on the upswing. Not sure how they will fare against Harvard, but the Big Red will surprise someone.

[bison137]

Stephen Hodge went from walk-on to DPOY as a junior fwiw.




If he was a walk-on, why was he listed in Fordham's original recruiting class for that year, in early February, as having signed a letter of intent? Walk-ons don't sign LOI's.

[CFBfan]

Facts. That class has already produced an OL who could become the first 4-time All-PL OL. Also a WR who made 1st team All-PL as a sophomore and was the most dangerous big-play receiver in the league as a sophomore. Also a RB who has made All-PL as a frosh and soph. Also 4/5ths of a solid OL. Also a good DT. Also the team's top CB and KR, although he has yet to play this year. Also a solid starting QB. Also a safety who started as a Soph. The class also included a very good kicker who unfortunately suffered a serious foot injury that may have ended his career.

copied from DFW's blog:

While the Bison haven't won a PL title in two decades. Following a underwhelming 17 points in a win over Marist, the Bison lost to Duquesne, needed a late touchdown to steer past Cornell, and was forced into overtime by VMI. The combined record of its first four opponents is 5-13 (.278).

[ngineer]

copied from DFW's blog:

While the Bison haven't won a PL title in two decades. Following a underwhelming 17 points in a win over Marist, the Bison lost to Duquesne, needed a late touchdown to steer past Cornell, and was forced into overtime by VMI. The combined record of its first four opponents is 5-13 (.278).

Lehigh's three losses are to teams with a combined record of 11-0. So this should be a close game. I am always hopeful, but I am growing uneasy with lack of improvement despite the losses. If we were playing well, i.e. not committing so many penalties, turnovers and missed assignments, I wouldn't be so concerned. But the lack of focus is bothersome. If we play, again, like we did versus Yale and Princeton, Coen should make some major moves.

[RichH2]

Lehigh's three losses are to teams with a combined record of 11-0. So this should be a close game. I am always hopeful, but I am growing uneasy with lack of improvement despite the losses. If we were playing well, i.e. not committing so many penalties, turnovers and missed assignments, I wouldn't be so concerned. But the lack of focus is bothersome. If we play, again, like we did versus Yale and Princeton, Coen should make some major moves.
The hardest challenge for coaches and fans is patience with a young team. There are 18 some odd soph and frosh on the 2 deep. Most of them on D. Focus and consistency go hand in hand. Not reasonable to expect that they all can do that for every game or even all of a game. Andy's problem is this kids have to for us to win. I just hope to see more of it. WRs at PU,both lines at Yale.

[Fordham]

If he was a walk-on, why was he listed in Fordham's original recruiting class for that year, in early February, as having signed a letter of intent? Walk-ons don't sign LOI's.
No idea what you're referencing but he never signed an LOI before coming. His name was likely included in the blast but he definitely came in as a walk on (and at WR initially I think). His brother played for us. Whole family very active supporters. Great Fordham family.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Who has said Bucknell 2015 is some juggernaut? There has been plenty of wondering and there is room for wonder. Bucknell 2014 began much the same way, 4-0, then a stanky loss in the rain at Bryant, 34-15, to slip to 4-1. After the 45-24 win over Lehigh, the rest of the season included two OT games and three otherwise tight encounters with many key injuries. No, the Bison are in the cauldron with everyone else.

[Leopard Loyalist]

These picks seem to represent the consensus, for what that is worth ....

Brown @ HOLY CROSS
COLGATE @ Princeton
FORDHAM @ Penn
LEHIGH @ BUCKNELL
LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN

24-7 on the year so far.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My game preview of Lehigh at Bucknell:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/10/game-preview-lehigh-at-bucknell-10102015.html

[Bogus Megapardus]

From Paul Reinhard's piece in Wednesday's Morning Call (http://www.mcall.com/sports/colle...ball-luncheon-20151006-story.html), quoting Lafayette head coach Frank Tavani:


"I don't know what it is about us they don't like, but [Georgetown] get[s] fired
up for us probably more than any game of the year," Tavani said.

Who knew? xrolleyesx

[Pard4Life]

Reading between the lines: they read our message board and AGS and feel they have to defend the honor of their field.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

3-3 last week, blah 19-12 overall. These last two weeks have been brutal. I feel good about this week....

Holy Cross 30 Brown 21 - HC has my confidence again after a great showing last week. Brown is middling at best. This is game the Crusaders, and the league, needs to win...

Princeton 38 Colgate 27 - Princeton is pretty darn good while Colgate still seems to be a bit of an enigma. Beat PU and Colgate might have something this season, lose and a losing record seems likely again....

Fordham 48 Penn 24 - The 'Nova game was an aberration. The Rams offense should have a big game...

Lafayette 24 Georgetown 21 - This is close to a toss-up. I'll take the 'Pards for the sake of their fans...

Bucknell 27 Lehigh 24 - The ship continues to sink for Lehigh. Remember when Lehigh literally owned Bucknell? It's not like the Bison have turned into some Top 25 team....

[bison137]

No idea what you're referencing but he never signed an LOI before coming. His name was likely included in the blast but he definitely came in as a walk on (and at WR initially I think). His brother played for us. Whole family very active supporters. Great Fordham family.



I am referencing Fordham's press release, shortly after signing day, which said he had signed a letter of intent. It would be very rare for a true walk-on, i.e. someone who was not recruited, to show up in a press release right after signing day.

[Go...gate]

Holy Cross 24, Brown 19

Princeton 33, Colgate 24

Fordham 35, Penn 27

Bucknell 26, Lehigh 23

Georgetown 21, Lafayette 17

[Fordham]

I am referencing Fordham's press release, shortly after signing day, which said he had signed a letter of intent. It would be very rare for a true walk-on, i.e. someone who was not recruited, to show up in a press release right after signing day.

Do you have a link? All I'll say is that the only thing rarer than what you mentioned would be for a family to tell others that their son is a walk on when he really got a scholarship. Pretty much always the other way around.

Not to mention this article from the Daily News that would be going to very odd lengths to feed your conspiracy. http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/college/size-lb-ram-fordham-article-1.1509198

... Or this one: http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/lafayette/index.ssf/2015/10/7_keys_to_fordham_at_lafayette.html

[RichH2]

20-11
Fordham
Tigers
Pards
Cross
Lehigh
Other than Rams,all of these games seem to be toss ups.

[carney2]

From Paul Reinhard's piece in Wednesday's Morning Call (http://www.mcall.com/sports/colle...ball-luncheon-20151006-story.html), quoting Lafayette head coach Frank Tavani:

"I don't know what it is about us they don't like, but [Georgetown] get[s] fired
up for us probably more than any game of the year," Tavani said.

Who knew? xrolleyesx

Yeah, a real rivalry. Another book, LFN?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yeah, a real rivalry. Another book, LFN?

THe actual student account from the first meeting in 1902:


Nov. 28th, 1902

LAFAYETTE DOWNS GEORGETOWN. LAFAYETTE, 23 ; GEORGETOWN, O. MANAGER BUSHNELL and Coach Fultz left for Washington on the Black Diamond express Friday with the following eighteen men : Trout, Launt. Lamson, Emst, Hoskins, Stayer, Duane, Falkner, Frear, Brown, Kinter, Thomas, Morrison, Hall, Richter, Scammell, Wack, and Shuster. At 3.45 Saturday afternoon, the ball went into play, on the Georgetown grounds, and it was quite evident from the very beginning that Georgetown would be defeated. The game was stubborn and spirited from start to finish and full of snap. Georgetown was on thc defensive most of the time, and never had the least chance of scoring. Lafayette's line-plays were most effective, and her interference was the best put up this season. Georgetown was completely outclassed.

So my question is, what changed at Lafayette from 1902 to today? Except for the fact that they had to take Asa Packer's train down to DC, of course, indirectly enriching Lehigh.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Georgetown was completely outclassed.

Georgetown never gave us a return home game following that 1902 contest. Nor did they in 1922, 1927 or 1937.

Same 'ol, same 'ol. xnonox

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The game was stubborn and spirited from start to finish and full of snap

Plus ca change...

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown never gave us a return home game following that 1902 contest. Nor did they in 1922, 1927 or 1937.


Georgetown was playing at Griffith Stadium and likely had little interest in Fisher Field.

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/past/images/griffith13951.jpg

[Bogus Megapardus]

Georgetown . . . ha[s] little interest in Fisher Field.

Things haven't changed a bit, have they? xnodx



FYI - In 1902 the Hoyas played on campus at Varsity Field, not Griffith which hadn't yet been built (but you know that). Lafayette played at March Field (which still exists). Below is what 22,500-plus looked like at the newly-opened Fisher Field in 1926-27. Georgetown's largest-ever crowd at Griffith didn't happen until 1941 (about 25,000). I'd be shocked if Lafayette's home attendance in the late 1920s and 1930s didn't double or triple anything Georgetown saw at Griffith.


http://tiptop25.com/1926lafayette_stadium.png



Georgetown had "little interest in Lafayette" not because of attendance or exposure, but because that's just what Georgetown does (to its considerable disgrace, IMHO). Also I don't think the posted picture of Griffith Stadium depicts a Georgetown game. It's more likely a Redskins game or the NFL championship game. Or maybe somebody simply posted a "Help Wanted - Paying Job - Real Work" flyer in the Georgetown dining hall, and those are all the Georgetown Ph.D. graduates who showed up for the interview.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The 1922 game was interesting because the Georgetown game happened after Lafayette's Rivalry game that season.

Leopards were 7-1, their only loss to Washington & Jefferson in NYC 14-13, a loss that ruined their chance at a mythical national championship.

In The Rivalry, Lafayette only barely held on against hugely outmanned Lehigh through a late field goal by a former Lehigh player, "Boots" Brunner, giving Lafayette a 3-0 win. Papers at the time hugely praised the Brown and White for fighting so hard against Lafayette because Lehigh was already trying to de-emphasize their program while Lafayette was still, in the minds of many, employing football mercenaries.

The Lafayette called the 13-7 loss "one of the biggest upsets of the season" and blamed a costly interception for the defeat. Some of the details of that game could have been ripped from today's headlines. "Lafayette got seventeen first downs to Georgetown's four and gained 319 yards to Georgetown's 90, but just as in the Lehigh game, they couldn't convert when they got close to the goal line." That game was played in Griffith Park, I think (the student paper calls it an AL baseball stadium).

Also, it seems like they had their own version of P4L at the time, as judged by the headline.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21431&stc=1

[Sader87]

After a very pedesterian 21-10 stahht, the HAL-9000 has been put down singing "Daisy" as he went out. Trotting out the Apple-1 in celebration of the Steve Jobs film premiere tonight:

Bucknell 27 Lehigh 20 The Bison are due for a bettah performance...get the W at Mathewson.

Princeton 30 Colgate 24 Propbably the best overall tilt of the week...Tiggers hang on at Palmahh.

Fordham 41 Penn 20 Quakers are dangerous but the Rams continue on their winning ways at historic Franklin Field.

GTown 17 Lafayette 13 This will be a close but ugly affair in our nation's capitol.

Brown 51 HC 48 4OT Typical Brown-HC affair....Bears eke it out in the 8th stanza.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The full dope -

http://i60.tinypic.com/fyizyb.jpg

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'll have what the Superba A.C. is having.

Pretty sure if I ever start a brand of beer Superba A.C. has just vaulted to the head of the list of potential names.

[DFW HOYA]

That was the full page one story in the newspaper? Must not have been much else going on.

To answer some questions above.

1. The Griffith Stadium pic was not of a Georgetown game but a quick pic from Google to identify the stadium. It's likely not an NFL picture since the Redskins did not draw well until after World War II. College crowds averaged 8000-15000 in the years before Georgetown went "big time" under Lou Little.
2. Yes, Georgetown had little interest in Lafayette. Its schedule was built around 5-6 rivalry games and whatever schools wanted to travel to DC. Those rivalry teams were in three groups: NY-area schools (NYU, Fordham, Manhattan), DC area schools (Maryland, George Washington), and what I would call the future Big East schools (WV, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College). Schools like Lafayette, Western Maryland, Delaware, Roanoke, etc. were the modern equivalent of guarantee games.
3. Yes, Georgetown still has little interest in Lafayette. Most students couldn't pick Lafayette College out of a lineup with photos of Colgate, Bucknell, HC, or Lehigh--they've never visited these schools and outside of a game every two years, never see or hear about them in their daily lives. (Remember, more Georgetown students are from California than any other state and about twice that of kids from Pennsylvania).
4. Georgetown entered the PL from a position of weakness (most of the team were MAAC recruits) and the campus perception was that it wasn't that big a deal to play these schools versus Iona, St. John's, etc. Fans knew about Syracuse and UConn, they didn't know about Bucknell and Holy Cross. The exceedingly poor game-day atmosphere, made manifest by the visible lack of commitment around an awful Kehoe Field** and later the the MSF, cemented this perception to a generation of fans. That's why all the banter is a bit of an unrequited rivalry--you don't care about what you don't know about.

**Kehoe Field made the MSF look like Fisher Field.

[DFW HOYA]

I'll have what the Superba A.C. is having.

Pretty sure if I ever start a brand of beer Superba A.C. has just vaulted to the head of the list of potential names.

http://www.usbeerlabels.com/webstore/images/large/OH-OLT-010.jpg

[Fordhamanhattan]

Fordham wins it's first game ever in Franklin Field as speed kills 55-21
The Tigers seem for real 35-21
the Leopards over the non veiled racists (Georgetown folks are quick to call critics "veiled racists", so I guess they are the opposite) 35-12
the Bison (the only Patriot League team that Fodham recruiters seem to run into) over the erstwhile Engineers 28-21
The Cross over Amy Carter's alma mater 34-10
20-11 to date

[crusader11]

4-2 last week, 21-10 on the year:

Lehigh
Princeton
Fordham
Georgetown
Holy Cross

[Bogus Megapardus]

Most students couldn't pick Lafayette College out of a lineup

Most Georgetown students don't even know that their own school has a football team, for chrissake. I wouldn't expect them to know about anybody else's.

I'm going to bite my pen here and not write what I was tempted to write. Let's just say that I hope Georgetown's new stadium is a smashing success - so much so that the Pards never, ever have to go there again.

[KillaBee]

That was the full page one story in the newspaper? Must not have been much else going on.

To answer some questions above.

1. The Griffith Stadium pic was not of a Georgetown game but a quick pic from Google to identify the stadium. It's likely not an NFL picture since the Redskins did not draw well until after World War II. College crowds averaged 8000-15000 in the years before Georgetown went "big time" under Lou Little.
2. Yes, Georgetown had little interest in Lafayette. Its schedule was built around 5-6 rivalry games and whatever schools wanted to travel to DC. Those rivalry teams were in three groups: NY-area schools (NYU, Fordham, Manhattan), DC area schools (Maryland, George Washington), and what I would call the future Big East schools (WV, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College). Schools like Lafayette, Western Maryland, Delaware, Roanoke, etc. were the modern equivalent of guarantee games.
3. Yes, Georgetown still has little interest in Lafayette. Most students couldn't pick Lafayette College out of a lineup with photos of Colgate, Bucknell, HC, or Lehigh--they've never visited these schools and outside of a game every two years, never see or hear about them in their daily lives. (Remember, more Georgetown students are from California than any other state and about twice that of kids from Pennsylvania).
4. Georgetown entered the PL from a position of weakness (most of the team were MAAC recruits) and the campus perception was that it wasn't that big a deal to play these schools versus Iona, St. John's, etc. Fans knew about Syracuse and UConn, they didn't know about Bucknell and Holy Cross. The exceedingly poor game-day atmosphere, made manifest by the visible lack of commitment around an awful Kehoe Field** and later the the MSF, cemented this perception to a generation of fans. That's why all the banter is a bit of an unrequited rivalry--you don't care about what you don't know about.

**Kehoe Field made the MSF look like Fisher Field.


DF.. if the G-Town students don't know who the Lafayette Leopards are.. YOU will know after this weekend.. I predict a Spanking.. by at least 32 points. This is about this weeks game only too me, not the pass or the future. Lets talk about 10/10/15 Leopards vs. Hoyas football match-up... Do you really think G-Town will win? if so, why do you think they will win? and please tell me in advance if I am too confident on this weeks win for the Leopards

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That was the full page one story in the newspaper? Must not have been much else going on.

FWIW football games back then were very big community events, something lost sometimes today. It wasn't just the student papers, either. The Bethlehem Call and Easton Express had loads of articles about the local teams, and that drummed up interest. In DC I'd imagine Georgetown football was pretty big, too.

Sometimes the stories of Lehigh and Lafayette would go national. The 1896 games that were cancelled I would consider as national news at that time because writers from Harper's Weekly had to be consulted. Harper's Weekly was the highest-circulation magazine at that time, I think.

Also important to remember that there was no NFL or pro football at this time. The highest level of football was college football, one of the reasons guys hung around and played college football essentially as adults versus school-aged kids. There is a reason why eligibility standards were set to a four-year stay at school with "real students".

[Bogus Megapardus]

FWIW football games back then were very big community events, something lost sometimes today. It wasn't just the student papers, either. The Bethlehem Call and Easton Express had loads of articles about the local teams, and that drummed up interest. In DC I'd imagine Georgetown football was pretty big, too.

Sometimes the stories of Lehigh and Lafayette would go national. The 1896 games that were cancelled I would consider as national news at that time because writers from Harper's Weekly had to be consulted. Harper's Weekly was the highest-circulation magazine at that time, I think.

Also important to remember that there was no NFL or pro football at this time. The highest level of football was college football, one of the reasons guys hung around and played college football essentially as adults versus school-aged kids. There is a reason why eligibility standards were set to a four-year stay at school with "real students".

Besides that was hardly the full newspaper. I just clipped that part out in order to paste here.

I just found something else that I'll post in a bit. Pure gold; similar to that 19th century scouring we directed at Lehigh "University."

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.usbeerlabels.com/webstore/images/large/OH-OLT-010.jpg

Wait a second. I see Dayton here... that means PantherRob will be here in... 3...2...1.... #Flyas4Lyfe

[Andy]

DF.. if the G-Town students don't know who the Lafayette Leopards are.. YOU will know after this weekend.. I predict a Spanking.. by at least 32 points. This is about this weeks game only too me, not the pass or the future. Lets talk about 10/10/15 Leopards vs. Hoyas football match-up... Do you really think G-Town will win? if so, why do you think they will win? and please tell me in advance if I am too confident on this weeks win for the Leopards

Congrats on post #33, killa. Your lucky number! An omen perhaps?

Optimism? There's some talent among the non-injured, someday it will come together. Maybe THIS week.

[DFW HOYA]

Most Georgetown students don't even know that their own school has a football team, for chrissake. I wouldn't expect them to know about anybody else's. I'm going to bite my pen here and not write what I was tempted to write. Let's just say that I hope Georgetown's new stadium is a smashing success - so much so that the Pards never, ever have to go there again.

That wasn't a knock on Lafayette. Washington DC, academically as well as politically, can be a very closed circle.

[Bogus Megapardus]

That wasn't a knock on Lafayette. Washington DC, academically as well as politically, can be a very closed circle.

And a closed press box.

[KillaBee]

Congrats on post #33, killa. Your lucky number! An omen perhaps?

Optimism? There's some talent among the non-injured, someday it will come together. Maybe THIS week.


I am hoping, and hoping .......... and hoping..lol But this week the Leopards will win my 32...........xsmiley_wix

[Bill]

DF.. if the G-Town students don't know who the Lafayette Leopards are.. YOU will know after this weekend.. I predict a Spanking.. by at least 32 points. This is about this weeks game only too me, not the pass or the future. Lets talk about 10/10/15 Leopards vs. Hoyas football match-up... Do you really think G-Town will win? if so, why do you think they will win? and please tell me in advance if I am too confident on this weeks win for the Leopards

I'm feeling generous today..(and I happen to be a fan of the Wu Tang), so this for killabee:
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21435&stc=1

[PantherRob82]

Is this season over? It feels like it.

Brown @ HOLY CROSS
COLGATE @ Princeton
FORDHAM @ Penn
LEHIGH @ BUCKNELL
LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN



I've got:
Brown
Princeton
Penn
Lehigh
Georgetown
Dayton

[PantherRob82]

DF.. if the G-Town students don't know who the Lafayette Leopards are.. YOU will know after this weekend.. I predict a Spanking.. by at least 32 points. This is about this weeks game only too me, not the pass or the future. Lets talk about 10/10/15 Leopards vs. Hoyas football match-up... Do you really think G-Town will win? if so, why do you think they will win? and please tell me in advance if I am too confident on this weeks win for the Leopards

All 10 of the Georgetown students who come.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Game Breakdown and Fearless Prediction of Lehigh at Bucknell:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/10/game-breakdown-lehigh-at-bucknell.html

[CFBfan]

]I am hoping, and hoping .......... and hoping..lol [/B]But this week the Leopards will win my 32...........xsmiley_wix

now that I appreciate killa!!!!

[Bogus Megapardus]

So we now know that Georgetown football, prior to World War II, was played to capacity crowds of 25,000 packed into Griffith Field for every single Georgetown home game since Griffith's opening in 1923. So fearsome were the perennially national championship-contending Hoyas, it seems, that Lafayette would plead endlessly for the honor of just one more trip to Washington, D.C. - only to be rebuffed year in and year out. So after Georgetown first played Lafayette in 1902, it wasn't until 1922 that a rematch was scheduled because, it seems, "Georgetown had little interest in" meaningless little football nobodies like Lafayette (principally because present-day Hoyas "have never heard of the place").

I hate to break it to everyone, but nobody, and I mean NOBODY, knew anything about Georgetown football then, just as nobody knows anything about Georgetown football now. Virtually nobody had ever heard of them; they got hardly a mention (if any mention) in the Spalding Official Guide or any other publication and certainly they were never mentioned with the likes of Penn, Lafayette, Navy, Princeton or Lehigh as a potential Middle Atlantic champion, let alone national champion.

And while one today might speculate today that Georgetown had "little interest in Lafayette" at the time, students at Lafayette appear to have seen things a bit differently. In advance of the December 2, 1922 game at Georgetown, a student wrote to then-Editor of The Lafayette, Ross J.S. Hoffman (http://www.firstprinciplesjournal.com/articles.aspx?article=890), this charming little missive (which I have edited for space and snark value):



http://i62.tinypic.com/xomop5.jpg


You can find a full copy of the October 4, 1922 edition of The Lafayette here -

http://digital.lafayette.edu/collections/newspaper/19221004

[Bogus Megapardus]

The only nagging question is this - how did The Lafayette reporter manage to prepare his meticulous write-up of the 1922 game, given Georgetown's long-standing (and current) policy of forbidding Lafayette from its press box? xconfusedx

I'm going to have to look in to this . . .

[Bogus Megapardus]

Has anyone ever seen this completely untrue (and patently offensive) wise-crack that some stooge, somehow, managed to get past Wikipedia's editors?


After a 2–7 season in 1950, Georgetown attempted to salvage its
program by softening its schedule, replacing major opponents such
as Penn State, Miami, and Tulsa with Richmond, Bucknell, and Lehigh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Hoyas_football#History

All I can say is wow. Just wow. As if . . . xsmhx

[ngineer]

Georgetown never gave us a return home game following that 1902 contest. Nor did they in 1922, 1927 or 1937.

Same 'ol, same 'ol. xnonox

I bet there were not TV cameras at that game either.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Georgetown's Wikipedia page reads like the Howard Zinn of College football - history from the point of view of the losers and the defeated. Does anyone know how to become a Wikipedia editor? I firmly believe that Georgetown needs a more "accurate" retelling of its football story from day one, and I think I'm just the guy to do it. xnodx

[Bogus Megapardus]

I bet there were not TV cameras at that game either.

Sure there were. ESPN has been covering Hoya basketball, buzzer to buzzer, since the program's inception in 1907. Just ask your average Hoya basketball fan. He'll tell you. xrolleyesx

So TV cameras must have been there for football, too - especially since Georgetown played a world-class schedule in front of millions of adoring fans, and competed for the national championship every single year. Just not Lafayette TV cameras, though. They're forbidden.

[Pard4Life]

Holy Cross 35, Brown 28... somehow, some way, this will be a close game that shouldn't be...

Princeton 42, Colgate 24... Forecast is for sun... Tigger back on track...

Fordham 38, Penn 14... Penn beats Nova, Nova beats Fordham, Fordham beats Penn...

Lehigh 21, Bucknell 17... Something wrong in Bisonville; Lehigh has at least played real teams.

Lafayette 28, Georgetown 17... FIOS Bowl IV

[BucBisonAtLarge]

So we now know that Georgetown football, prior to World War II, was played to capacity crowds of 25,000 packed into Griffith Field for every single Georgetown home game since Griffith's opening in 1923. So fearsome were the perennially national championship-contending Hoyas, it seems, that Lafayette would plead endlessly for the honor of just one more trip to Washington, D.C. - only to be rebuffed year in and year out. So after Georgetown first played Lafayette in 1902, it wasn't until 1922 that a rematch was scheduled because, it seems, "Georgetown had little interest in" meaningless little football nobodies like Lafayette (principally because present-day Hoyas "have never heard of the place").

I hate to break it to everyone, but nobody, and I mean NOBODY, knew anything about Georgetown football then, just as nobody knows anything about Georgetown football now. Virtually nobody had ever heard of them; they got hardly a mention (if any mention) in the Spalding Official Guide or any other publication and certainly they were never mentioned with the likes of Penn, Lafayette, Navy, Princeton or Lehigh as a potential Middle Atlantic champion, let alone national champion.

And while one today might speculate today that Georgetown had "little interest in Lafayette" at the time, students at Lafayette appear to have seen things a bit differently. In advance of the December 2, 1922 game at Georgetown, a student wrote to then-Editor of The Lafayette, Ross J.S. Hoffman (http://www.firstprinciplesjournal.com/articles.aspx?article=890), this charming little missive (which I have edited for space and snark value):


http://i62.tinypic.com/xomop5.jpg


You can find a full copy of the October 4, 1922 edition of The Lafayette here -

http://digital.lafayette.edu/collections/newspaper/19221004

OK, you are off probation, Bogie. Leave to the FiOS Bowl to bring us a landmark slam post, 90+ years old. Thanks.

[Bogus Megapardus]

OK, you are off probation, Bogie. Leave it to the FiOS Bowl to bring us a landmark slam post, 90+ years old. Thanks.

Letters to the Editor were the AGS Board of the day.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So we now know that Georgetown football, prior to World War II, was played to capacity crowds of 25,000 packed into Griffith Field for every single Georgetown home game since Griffith's opening in 1923. So fearsome were the perennially national championship-contending Hoyas, it seems, that Lafayette would plead endlessly for the honor of just one more trip to Washington, D.C. - only to be rebuffed year in and year out. So after Georgetown first played Lafayette in 1902, it wasn't until 1922 that a rematch was scheduled because, it seems, "Georgetown had little interest in" meaningless little football nobodies like Lafayette (principally because present-day Hoyas "have never heard of the place").

I hate to break it to everyone, but nobody, and I mean NOBODY, knew anything about Georgetown football then, just as nobody knows anything about Georgetown football now. Virtually nobody had ever heard of them; they got hardly a mention (if any mention) in the Spalding Official Guide or any other publication and certainly they were never mentioned with the likes of Penn, Lafayette, Navy, Princeton or Lehigh as a potential Middle Atlantic champion, let alone national champion.

And while one today might speculate today that Georgetown had "little interest in Lafayette" at the time, students at Lafayette appear to have seen things a bit differently. In advance of the December 2, 1922 game at Georgetown, a student wrote to then-Editor of The Lafayette, Ross J.S. Hoffman (http://www.firstprinciplesjournal.com/articles.aspx?article=890), this charming little missive (which I have edited for space and snark value):


http://i62.tinypic.com/xomop5.jpg


You can find a full copy of the October 4, 1922 edition of The Lafayette here -

http://digital.lafayette.edu/collections/newspaper/19221004

Bogie, you need to know this letter made me cry with laughter. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I was looking at VMI's hit on CJ Williams on ESPN's replay of the Bucknell/VMI game. It looked to me like the VMI players should have been called for targeting and been ejected. The VMI player led with his helmet and crunched him right in the arm/shoulder.

[DFW HOYA]

Has anyone ever seen this completely untrue (and patently offensive) wise-crack that some stooge, somehow, managed to get past Wikipedia's editors?

After a 2–7 season in 1950, Georgetown attempted to salvage its
program by softening its schedule, replacing major opponents such
as Penn State, Miami, and Tulsa with Richmond, Bucknell, and Lehigh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Hoyas_football#History

All I can say is wow. Just wow. As if . . . xsmhx

Wow aside, the 1951 schedule did include such opponents.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Wow aside, the 1951 schedule did include such opponents.

Georgetown, of course, scheduled nothing in 1951 because Georgetown no longer had a football team in 1951.

But even assuming Georgetown would have liked to have scheduled, say, Bucknell if Georgetown had had a team in 1951, I'm pretty sure the Bison were a bit too busy going undefeated, and being ranked in the national AP poll that year, to be bothered with a trifle like Georgetown that nobody - and I'm serious here - NOBODY had ever heard of.

I dunno, maybe Holy Cross might have have slummed down from the Top 20 that year and given the Hoyas a game out of sympathy or whatever (if Georgetown still had an actual football team). Maybe somebody, somewhere, in Worcester had heard of the place. But Cross still would have annihilated them.

Softening its schedule my arse. xasswhipx

[Andy]

Brown @ HOLY CROSS - Pujols hot, hot hot. Saders
COLGATE @ Princeton - hmmm...Gate swinging in right direction but P is already there. Tigers
FORDHAM @ Penn - FU
LEHIGH @ BUCKNELL - Buckies looking ahead to Army, win anyway.
LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN - after last weeks debacle can't find a reason to pick my Pards. Prove me wrong, please! Hoyas

[Pards Rule]

I'm feeling generous today..(and I happen to be a fan of the Wu Tang), so this for killabee:
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21435&stc=1


Im having Tshirts made up with this logo for the Hahvard game

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Brown 41, Holy Cross 38 --> Tough game to call. Holy Cross is coming together, but think Brown just a wee bit too tough.
Princeton 28, Colgate 24 --> Both teams hard to figure, too.
Fordham 40, Penn 14 --> A mismatch.
Lafayette 35, Georgetown 13 --> Pretty much the worst time for FiOS bowl, with Leopards desperate for a win.

[van]

Brown @ HOLY CROSS – crossers at home should be enough

COLGATE @ Princeton – Tigger is pretty good, gate not so much

FORDHAM @ Penn – game may be closer than some think

LEHIGH @ BUCKNELL – I like our chances since Buffs O is lethargic, but our D is not inspiring confidence and their D does

LAFAYETTE @ GEORGETOWN – Pards can win this one

21-11 on the season, mediocre at best

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Bucknell WR Will Carter out of this game for "disciplinary reasons". Wow.

[DFW HOYA]

I dunno, maybe Holy Cross might have have slummed down from the Top 20 that year and given the Hoyas a game out of sympathy or whatever (if Georgetown still had an actual football team). Maybe somebody, somewhere, in Worcester had heard of the place. But Cross still would have annihilated them.

Hmmm. You realize (or maybe you don't) that Georgetown defeated Holy Cross in 1950. And in 1949. Same for a sweep of Boston College over those two seasons.

The school made the decision to move from 20 scholarships after World War II to 81 scholarships by the 1950 season. In the end, that accelerated the move to defund it. And the ghosts of the "so what happened the last time we added scholarships?" argument continue to frame the debate around why Georgetown doesn't do so today.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Hmmm. You realize (or maybe you don't) that Georgetown defeated Holy Cross in 1950. And in 1949. Same for a sweep of Boston College over those two seasons.

The school made the decision to move from 20 scholarships after World War II to 81 scholarships by the 1950 season. In the end, that accelerated the move to defund it. And the ghosts of the "so what happened the last time we added scholarships?" argument continue to frame the debate around why Georgetown doesn't do so today.

You're changing the subject. The focus of this thread is Georgetown's 1951 season and the unnecessary and gratuitous Wikipedia nonsense about Georgetown "softening its schedule" that year.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh 14 Bucknell 4 about 7:00 2Q

[Bogus Megapardus]

I love the new technology. I'm watching four games at once on a 52" quad-split screen with all feeds in HD. Life is good. xnodx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh 14 Bucknell 7 Half
Fordham 35 Penn 17 Half
Princeton 16 Colgate 14 Half
Brown 22 HC 17 Half

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Princeton 23 Colgate 14 13;00 3Q
Georgetown 10 Lafayette 0 1:50 1Q

[crusader11]

HC scores touchdowns on three straight drives to take a 24-22 lead. Early 3rd.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown 24, Lafayette 7 , halftime

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh 21 Bucknell 10 Final
Princeton 44 Colgate 20 Final

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Fordham 42 Penn 37 6:34 4Q

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown 31, Lafayette 7, 10:59 3rd

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Georgetown 31 Lafayette 7 9;51 3Q

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Fordham and Penn tied at 45 with 1:46 4Q

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown 38, Lafayette 7, 5:24 3rd

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Brown makes a 36 yard FG with about 2 minutes left....

25-24 Bears....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

PP picked off on what looked like a tipped pass. Brown should be able to hold on....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Fordham kicks a FG with about 10 seconds left...

Rams 48 Penn 45 Final....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

HC not dead yet. Have the ball at Brown 32 with 14 ticks left...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Brown called for PI with 2 seconds left, moves the ball to 18 but HC misses the FG

Brown 25 HC 24 Final....

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

PL as we make the turn for home...

Fordham 4-1 (1-0)
Georgetown 3-3 (1-0)
Lehigh 3-3 (1-0)
Colgate 2-4 (1-0)
Bucknell 3-2 (0-1)
Holy Cross 2-3 (0-1)
Lafayette 1-5 (0-2)

[Bogus Megapardus]

OK, Hoyas, you got your blowout win. Congratulations and well done. You thumped us in every conceivable way. xbowx xbowx xbowx

[DFW HOYA]

This win, somewhat unexpected, was the largest margin by Georgetown ever over a PL opponent.

In fact, Georgetown had only four double-digit conference wins in the entire PL era entering the game, so it was very unexpected given how close this series has been.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

This win, albeit unexpected, was the largest margin by Georgetown ever over a PL opponent. In fact, Georgetown had only four double-digit conference wins in the entire PL era entering the game.

The only other big win I remember was against Colgate in 2011. I would have guessed that was worse...

[CHIP72]

I felt a little bad before today that I decided months ago to not attend Lafayette/Georgetown (went to Tulane/Temple instead, in part because I was thinking/hoping either Fordham/Penn or William & Mary/Villanova would be a night game and I could do a doubleheader, in part because I'll also attend Saints/Eagles tomorrow), but after seeing that final score I'm glad I didn't witness that debacle at Multi-Sport Field. (Instead, I saw Temple absolutely throttle Tulane 49-10.)

[Bogus Megapardus]

Georgetown made Lafayette's OL look like origami figures.

[DatDude]

Lafayette is pathetic...lmao!

[Go...gate]

Fordham and Georgetown look like the class of the conference. Not sure Colgate will win another game after what I saw today.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Lafayette is pathetic...lmao!

We identify as "disgraceful," thank you very much.

[CFBfan]

the PL Sux right now fraught with poor coaches (save moorehead & sgarlata) !!!!! the players deserve better then what they are getting!

[Sader87]

the PL Sux right now fraught with poor coaches (save moorehead & sgarlata) !!!!! the players deserve better then what they are getting!

Agreed....it's a league that desperately needs new blood/energy in toto....the atmosphere (or lack thereof) at Fitton today was pathetic....in all seriousness, football at Holy Cross right now is not close to being worth the $$$ we are putting into it right now.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The whole idea with scholarships simply was to be able to stay competitive (or better) with Ivy and to give the CAA something now and again; play our traditional Syracuse-Navy-Rutgers-Army-Penn State-Temple-Boston College games and maybe make a bit of a run in the playoffs as well. Just be like all of us used to be throughout the extended history of college football.

It ain't working.

[RichH2]

PL a mess right now. Scollies are IMO one of the reasons league wide. Individual teams have their own issues. The problem is not schollies ,it is the lack of upperclass players in sufficient numbers on schollies. For Lehigh,the vast majority of our best players are frosh and sophs. Some are ready most are not. Inconsistency from game to game and play to play. Our first schollie class has some great players and a bunch of misses. Classes have improved each subsequent year.
For PL ,two more classes and we'll actually see what we've created.

[ngineer]

PL a mess right now. Scollies are IMO one of the reasons league wide. Individual teams have their own issues. The problem is not schollies ,it is the lack of upperclass players in sufficient numbers on schollies. For Lehigh,the vast majority of our best players are frosh and sophs. Some are ready most are not. Inconsistency from game to game and play to play. Our first schollie class has some great players and a bunch of misses. Classes have improved each subsequent year.
For PL ,two more classes and we'll actually see what we've created.

Agreed. It's been stated on this board before that going scholarship would have it's bumps and potholes due to disparity within teams as recruiting develops, as well as lack of depth with smaller rosters. Teams with the injury bug are going to suffer the greatest with a lot of inexperienced players on the field making the "usual" mistakes inexperienced players make. You get erratic performances, see Lehigh's mood swings this year.

[RichH2]

Agreed. It's been stated on this board before that going scholarship would have it's bumps and potholes due to disparity within teams as recruiting develops, as well as lack of depth with smaller rosters. Teams with the injury bug are going to suffer the greatest with a lot of inexperienced players on the field making the "usual" mistakes inexperienced players make. You get erratic performances, see Lehigh's mood swings this year.
"Mood swings"? Naah. My wife has those. Some Lehigh fans are having manic depressive episodes. Amazing how quiet our board is after a good W.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

"Mood swings"? Naah. My wife has those. Some Lehigh fans are having manic depressive episodes. Amazing how quiet our board is after a good W.

I thought Bucknell looked terrible. I don't want discredit a win because they've been tough to come by lately but Bucknell had nothing on offense. The same Yale team that ran all over Lehigh was thumped by a legitimately good Dartmouth team today.

Fordham is very good offensively but overall I'm not sure what their level really is. They feel a little like Lehigh's 2012 team except the Ram defense might be a little weaker. Even so, I don't know if Lehigh keeps it within 2 scores.

The league is brutal. As I said in another thread. The PL might have one team in the Top 50% of FCS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The whole idea with scholarships simply was to be able to stay competitive (or better) with Ivy and to give the CAA something now and again; play our traditional Syracuse-Navy-Rutgers-Army-Penn State-Temple-Boston College games and maybe make a bit of a run in the playoffs as well. Just be like all of us used to be throughout the extended history of college football.

It ain't working.

Judging by Delaware, the PL doesn't need to get far to get back to the CAA's level. Assuming JMU goes to FBS, of course.

[carney2]

Tavani has resigned. He just hasn't told himself yet.

[RichH2]

Tavani has resigned. He just hasn't told himself yet.
:):):)

[RichH2]

I thought Bucknell looked terrible. I don't want discredit a win because they've been tough to come by lately but Bucknell had nothing on offense. The same Yale team that ran all over Lehigh was thumped by a legitimately good Dartmouth team today.

Fordham is very good offensively but overall I'm not sure what their level really is. They feel a little like Lehigh's 2012 team except the Ram defense might be a little weaker. Even so, I don't know if Lehigh keeps it within 2 scores.

The league is brutal. As I said in another thread. The PL might have one team in the Top 50% of FCS.
True,Bucknell without Williams and Carter had little to offer. That said we shredded their D by running. Us running. :) Situation not much different than last year when they were missing Nitti and Williams and they stomped us. A positive to dominate them out there.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

True,Bucknell without Williams and Carter had little to offer. That said we shredded their D by running. Us running. :) Situation not much different than last year when they were missing Nitti and Williams and they stomped us. A positive to dominate them out there.

Their backup QB lit Lehigh up last year. Carter had 246 yards receiving. Overall, Bucknell was a MUCH better team last year.

Bucknell was 3-1 as a result of a weak schedule. They scored 17 against Marist, 7 against Duquesne, 19 against Cornell 28 (in OT) against VMI and now 10 against Lehigh. Breaking 20 points only once in 5 games tells me they are very much a below average offense and the weakest Lehigh has faced all year.

[CHIP72]

Judging by Delaware, the PL doesn't need to get far to get back to the CAA's level. Assuming JMU goes to FBS, of course.

The CAA is really, really down this year, significantly worse than any season in the last 10 years.

[CFBfan]

Tavani has resigned. He just hasn't told himself yet.

killa bee is on suicide watch......we're all pulling for you killa!

[Franks Tanks]

Fordham and Georgetown look like the class of the conference. Not sure Colgate will win another game after what I saw today.

You still get the play Lafayette! We've only hit double figures once all year. Colgate will beat lafayette be 3 or 4 TD's .

[Sader87]

What an absolute **** show this PL season has been.....in all seriousness, reasons why?

Holy Cross and Lafayette both desperately need new head coaches, no? Is Bucknell that banged up? Lehigh? Colgate?

[Go...gate]

I feel like it is the early 1990's again and most, if not all, PL clubs are struggling outside the league.

[ngineer]

killa bee is on suicide watch......we're all pulling for you killa!

He may have broken out in hives today.

[ngineer]

Fordham barely gets by Penn and gives up 45?! There may be hope, yet.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Recap of Lehigh's win over Bucknell:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/10/lehigh-changes-helmets-and-changes.html