SIU Regular Season vs. Playoffs

[89Hen]

I don't want this on the smack board so keep it calm, but I have a serious question about SIU and how good they are during the regular season and how disappointing they are in the playoffs. Can anybody shed some light? Are they just running into great teams? Have they had injury issues at the end of seasons? There has to be something going on.

From 2003-2006 SIU is 36-8 in the regular season, including 1-2 versus I-A teams. In the playoffs they are 2-4 with both wins over OVC teams, a conference who hasn't won a playoff game since 1996. I was at the UD-SIU game in 2003 and while the Hens were on a roll to finish the season, the Salukis looked absolutely horrid that day.

I think Montana is the only team with a better regular season record over those years and they are 5-3 in the playoffs during the same time. Is it time for a new coach?

[Bison77]

I don't want this on the smack board so keep it calm, but I have a serious question about SIU and how good they are during the regular season and how disappointing they are in the playoffs. Can anybody shed some light? Are they just running into great teams? Have they had injury issues at the end of seasons? There has to be something going on.

From 2003-2006 SIU is 36-8 in the regular season, including 1-2 versus I-A teams. In the playoffs they are 2-4 with both wins over OVC teams, a conference who hasn't won a playoff game since 1996. I was at the UD-SIU game in 2003 and while the Hens were on a roll to finish the season, the Salukis looked absolutely horrid that day.

I think Montana is the only team with a better regular season record over those years and they are 5-3 in the playoffs during the same time. Is it time for a new coach?

I watched the game too and I can't tell you how unimpressed I was with SIU. There qb is ???? . If they even had a little bit of a passing game they could have won that game.

[OL FU]

I understand the discussion point. I don't have a lot to offer. But please don't tell me it is time for a new coach. The Salukis would make Georgia Southern look mild.

[putter]

I watched the game too and I can't tell you how unimpressed I was with SIU. There qb is ???? . If they even had a little bit of a passing game they could have won that game.

That is a big stretch but you are entitled to you opinion. Who knows why they don't have the success but I can tell you Saturday they ran into a very, very good defense that has played that way all year..:nod:

[GannonFan]

I'm afraid I need to go with the theory that SIU is a good team but come playoff time they get exposed as being a little too one-dimensional and never a great defensive team. Granted, they ran into a buzz-saw in 2003 against UD and you have to give them some slack for being the first playoff game for the program in 20 years, but then they lost to a good, but not great EWU team as the #1 seed in 2004 (EWU then went on to lose to Sam Houston who themselves lost the next round so hardly a slate of great teams) and then lost to Appy St last year and now Montana. They do lose to good teams but that's who's in the playoffs, good teams. I think SIU does a good job of running the ball but they never seem to be a legit passing team. UNI is kinda like SIU but UNI often has a much, much better passing game to go to so they aren't so easily defended as SIU is. And SIU has never had a lights out defense and as such, they give up too many points in the playoffs. If you're not dynamic on offense, and if you're not dominant on defense, you won't last long in the playoffs.

[89Hen]

They do lose to good teams but that's who's in the playoffs, good teams.
:nod: Great point.

[putter]

I'm afraid I need to go with the theory that SIU is a good team but come playoff time they get exposed as being a little too one-dimensional and never a great defensive team. Granted, they ran into a buzz-saw in 2003 against UD and you have to give them some slack for being the first playoff game for the program in 20 years, but then they lost to a good, but not great EWU team as the #1 seed in 2004 (EWU then went on to lose to Sam Houston who themselves lost the next round so hardly a slate of great teams) and then lost to Appy St last year and now Montana. They do lose to good teams but that's who's in the playoffs, good teams. I think SIU does a good job of running the ball but they never seem to be a legit passing team. UNI is kinda like SIU but UNI often has a much, much better passing game to go to so they aren't so easily defended as SIU is. And SIU has never had a lights out defense and as such, they give up too many points in the playoffs. If you're not dynamic on offense, and if you're not dominant on defense, you won't last long in the playoffs.

I agree with you about good teams being in the playoffs but you can't string it together like that. They lost to so and so, who lost their next game, and that team lost their next game....that is a bit much if you ask me. Winning playoff games is never easy whether in 1st round or the semi's and saying they did not lose to the NC team doesn't hold water. The best argument I have heard is the one dimentional one but if that is the case then why do all the Gateway fans keep harping on how strong their conference is when a one dimentional team from their conference can make it to the playoffs for 4 straight years (2nd longest streak)?

[Reed Rothchild]

I think about this myself sometimes because it bugs when SIU has gotten beaten early in the playoffs year in and year out.

Coach Kill and company know how to beat Gateway teams. The bottom line for them is FAMILIARITY. They have played the same teams, coaches, and systems for several years now and they know how to defeat them using their running game and play action passing.

The problem during the playoffs is that they don't know how to defeat teams that they aren't familiar with. In the playoffs, throw conference success out the window. It takes 2 things to win 1) SERIOUS talent and 2) COACHING: the ability to innovate your gameplan and throw big wrinkles in. At this point, most teams are evenly matched that unless the talent is FAR superior (Ga Southern a couple times, Montana '01, Delaware '03), so its up to the coaches to make the small changes necessary and throw enough wrinkles in to give a team the best chance to win. Watching SIU play in the playoffs, the staffs from other schools know how to beat them and SIU's staff refuse to change what they do in the passing game.

You guys are right about the passing game. Look at when UNI made the semi's in '01 and '05. We were able to PASS our way to big victories and play bend but don't break defense with the occasional big play.

[TheValleyRaider]

I wonder how much playing on the road has to do with it. Of those 6 playoff games, only 2 were at home. Other than the loss to EWU at home, in a wild game if I remember correctly, they've found themselves on the losing end AT Delaware, AT Appalachian State, and AT Montana. It's a tough stretch for anyone.

What it doesn't explain is how poorly they've played in some of those losses, but I would think the one-dimensional offense and lack of D others have mentioned isn't helping.

[*****]

I wonder how much playing on the road has to do with it. Of those 6 playoff games, only 2 were at home. Other than the loss to EWU at home, in a wild game if I remember correctly, they've found themselves on the losing end AT Delaware, AT Appalachian State, and AT Montana. It's a tough stretch for anyone.
What it doesn't explain is how poorly they've played in some of those losses, but I would think the one-dimensional offense and lack of D others have mentioned isn't helping.2003 - lost to the NC on the road
2004 - lost on the last play at home
2005 - lost to the NC on the road
2006 - lost to Montana (now a semifinalist) on the road

Mountain out of a mole hill ring a bell?

[Ronbo]

Here we go again. We play nothing but cupcakes. Give it a rest. After this Saturday UMass will become a cupcake too. :smiley_wi We've now beaten 6 teams that were top 25 in the final poll and 9 teams that were in the top 25 during the season at some point. That's 46% of our games against current top 25's and 70% of our games against teams that are or were top 25. Nobody and I mean nobody can match that.

[*****]

... 46% of our games against current top 25's and 70% of our games against teams that are or were top 25. Nobody and I mean nobody can match that.Sat 9/2/2006 Northeastern at Virginia Tech Virginia Tech 38-0
Sat 9/9/2006 Northeastern at Holy Cross Northeastern 24-14
Sat 9/16/2006 Northeastern at North Dakota St North Dakota St 23-10
Sat 9/23/2006 Northeastern at James Madison James Madison 52-14
Sat 9/30/2006 Northeastern at Richmond Richmond 12-7
Sat 10/7/2006 Delaware at Northeastern Northeastern 27-24
Sat 10/21/2006 New Hampshire at Northeastern Northeastern 36-35
Sat 10/28/2006 Massachusetts at Northeastern Massachusetts 7-0
Sat 11/4/2006 Northeastern at Maine Maine 30-3
Sat 11/11/2006 Northeastern at Hofstra Northeastern 34-24
Sat 11/18/2006 Rhode Island at Northeastern Northeastern 45-3

Which two were not in the top 25 this year? NU played 80% (if you count VT 82%) of their games against teams that are or were top 25

[TheValleyRaider]

2003 - lost to the NC on the road
2004 - lost on the last play at home
2005 - lost to the NC on the road
2006 - lost to Montana (now a semifinalist) on the road
Mountain out of a mole hill ring a bell?

That's exactly my point. I'd say that in 3 of those seasons, those are top-notch teams and in their houses (which just happen to be 3 of the toughest stadiums in CS Football). Certainly tough to win in Newark, Boone, and Missoula, and losing games there isn't exactly a mark of shame :twocents:

[Chi Panther]

2003 - lost to the NC on the road
2004 - lost on the last play at home
2005 - lost to the NC on the road
2006 - lost to Montana (now a semifinalist) on the road

Mountain out of a mole hill ring a bell?

I don't think some people appreciate that coach kill showed up in 2001.

SIU's record in 2001 was 1-10 and in 2002 was 4-8 (according to Media Guide)......

To have played 6 playoff games in 6 years is quite impressive.....He's no Tressel.....but they like him just fine in Carbondale.....

[Mr. C]

I have a number of thoughts on this subject. First and formost, Jerry Kill is a marvelous coach. He has managed to reach the playoffs four straught years at a school that was considering dropping football before he arrived. He has done a great job.

The Salukis also won shares of three consecutive Gateway Football Conference titles, something that is pretty impressive. I honestly thought that with the amount of seniors they lost last year, including four-year starting QB Joel Sambursky, that this was a team that would be in the middle of the pack in the Gateway. But instead of rebuilding, Coach Kill got them back to the playoffs. He knew that Arkee Whitlock was his gravy train and they hitched up the horses and rode that wagon all the way to the quarterfinals. This was a team that very much overachieved this season. Also keep in mind that Coach Kill has been battling health problems and that might have played a toll in the past season and a half.

In past years, SIU has lost to teams that had a vast talent advantage. Delaware in 2003 was one of the best I-AA champions ever. Appalachian State in 2005 was also very good and could add a second straight title this season, something that hasn't been done since Georgia Southern in 1999-2000. Montana, this season, has been ranked No. 2 for most of the year. They could very well make the championship game for the second time in three years. The losses on the road, at some of the toughest road venues in the FCS, has already been covered. Eastern Washington in 2004 was pretty darn good, too. Didn't those Eagles, led by Erik Meyer and Eric Kimble, beat Montana that year? And we know they came within one final play of going to the semifinals.

I think most of the teams in the FCS would be thrilled to be in the playoffs four years in a row and in the quarterfinals in the past two years. This is a good program that will continue to be one of the best around.

So what does SIU need to do to reach another level in the FCS? No. 1, Kill needs to get better talent on defense, particularly in the secondary. They might also want to consider switching to a new defensive scheme. Some offensive coordinators I have talked to don't consider their 4-2-5 scheme to be all that sound. The Salukis also need to improve their team speed. They have speed in places, but if you look at the top teams in the FCS, speed seems to be the common denominator. Those big, slow offensive and defensive linemen that the Salukis have had might be able to dominate in the Gateway, but they get beat by speed in the playoffs.

There are a lot of teams that reach a certain level and then take awhile to go on to a higher level. It took Delaware awhile to win a I-AA crown. Same with Appalachian State. McNeese State still hasn't won one, though the Cowboys have been good for years. Northern Iowa finally broke through to its first championship game last year. Making that leap to the final four is a tough one.

[*****]

... There are a lot of teams that reach a certain level and then take awhile to go on to a higher level. It took Delaware awhile to win a I-AA crown. Same with Appalachian State. McNeese State still hasn't won one, though the Cowboys have been good for years. Northern Iowa finally broke through to its first championship game last year. Making that leap to the final four is a tough one.UNI and MSU are on the clock now, same as ASU was last year, 12 years in the playoffs without winning a title as all-time playoff futility. ASU won finally. We shall see. SIU is not there nor will they ever be there. They have as many titles as ASU now.

[Ronbo]

Sat 9/2/2006 Northeastern at Virginia Tech Virginia Tech 38-0
Sat 9/9/2006 Northeastern at Holy Cross Northeastern 24-14
Sat 9/16/2006 Northeastern at North Dakota St North Dakota St 23-10
Sat 9/23/2006 Northeastern at James Madison James Madison 52-14
Sat 9/30/2006 Northeastern at Richmond Richmond 12-7
Sat 10/7/2006 Delaware at Northeastern Northeastern 27-24
Sat 10/21/2006 New Hampshire at Northeastern Northeastern 36-35
Sat 10/28/2006 Massachusetts at Northeastern Massachusetts 7-0
Sat 11/4/2006 Northeastern at Maine Maine 30-3
Sat 11/11/2006 Northeastern at Hofstra Northeastern 34-24
Sat 11/18/2006 Rhode Island at Northeastern Northeastern 45-3

Which two were not in the top 25 this year? NU played 80% (if you count VT 82%) of their games against teams that are or were top 25


I said "BEATEN" not played.:nod:

[89Hen]

2003 - lost to the NC on the road
2004 - lost on the last play at home
2005 - lost to the NC on the road
2006 - lost to Montana (now a semifinalist) on the road

Mountain out of a mole hill ring a bell?
I disagree. You have the team with the second best regular season record over the last four years at 2-4 with the only wins being against the OVC. My whole point was they seem like a top 5 team all season only to lose first or second round. 2003, 2005, 2006... these teams wouldn't have won the NC/semis if SIU had beaten them.

It's like JMU/YSU this year. I don't want to take anything away from YSU but JMU pissed that game away. IF YSU were to win the NC, the Dukes and Redbirds could say they lost to the eventual NC, but they probably shouldn't have made it out of the first round given the game through the first three and a half quarters.

SIU hasn't beaten a single team from the A10, Big Sky, SoCon in the playoffs since their NC in 1983.

[Mr. C]

UNI and MSU are on the clock now, same as ASU was last year, 12 years in the playoffs without winning a title as all-time playoff futility. ASU won finally. We shall see. SIU is not there nor will they ever be there. They have as many titles as ASU now.
The number of titles wasn't my point. SIU's championship is ancient history. Ray Dempsey hasn't coached there in years. Right now, SIU is a top-10 program under Jerry Kill, but hasn't reach the next stage. That was the point I was making. Eastern Kentucky was in four title games in four years, but that program isn't at the same place it was back them.

[89Hen]

Part of this is that it's fairly rare to go the playoffs four or more straight years (no A10 team has ever done it).

Teams that have been to 4+ straight playoffs:

Montana (14) 22-11 .667
EKU (10) 8-10 .444
UNI (7) 6-7 .462
GSU (6) 20-2 .909
YSU (6) 16-3 .842
GSU (6) 16-4 .800
EKU (6) 8-4 .667
FAMU (6) 3-5 .375
Jackson St (6) 0-6 .000
AppSt (5) 4-5 .444
WKU (5) 6-4 .600
McNeese (5) 5-5 .500
Furman (4) 3-4 .429 (three of the losses were first round to A10... that's for you OL FU)
McNeese (4) 3-4 .429
Lehigh (4) 3-4 .429
SIU (4) 2-4 .333

So JSU is the only team with a worse record and I don't think they were ever close to top 10, let alone #1. Again I'm not trying to put SIU down, but the contrast of regular season to post-season just jumps off the page for me.

[Killsback]

The progress for the Salukis is probably three years ahead of schedule. the fact that 4 years ago the team went 10-2 was wayyyyy beyond anyone's comprehension and the salukis despite what they said to the media, were just happy to be in the playoffs against Delaware. If you recall that post season the Salukis were the only team to score significant points against the eventual National Champion. Plus, remember that the Salukis were probably the number 5 or 6 team in the playoffs that year, with nowhere to play, so they shipped them off to Delaware. It was such a downer, because they really thought they were going to be a top four seed before losing the last regular season game at UNI. So happy to be in and losing to the eventual National Champion in year one..not too bad. year two was the year SIU was 10-1 again and ranked number 1 in the nation. But, that year SIU also ranked near the bottom of the ranks in pass defense. The first round opponent was Eastern Washington and its prolific duo of Eric Meyer and Erik Kimball. Southern could not contain either yet, almost won the game. EWU was probably the hottest team in the nation at the time they played SIU. Still had the Salukis used Brandon jacobs more effectively they may have won the game. Year three was a win in round one and then a loss at eventual national Champion Appy State. The Salukis were not as one dimensional as years past, but could not match Appy's speed. Year four, this year, they had more overall team sapeed on defense, but had little or no passing game as their wide receives did not progress to where coach Kill thought they would. This was supposed to be a rebuilding year, not a reloading year and to again make it to the playoffs, the only team besides Montana to make it the last four years, was a tremendous feat. To olose at Montana is no disgrace. I would like to play Montana in Carbondale or on a neutral field. The NCAA lets Montana get away with a lot of things that are not supposed to happen at a game, because they get a lot of money from the Montana athletic department. I won't go into NCAA rules for playoff games, but Montana destroys the rules of fairness according to the NCAA Championship rule book. Not sour grapes, just facts. The home field advantage is suppoed to only go so far in the playoffs..and Montana flat out destruys the rules.

Sorry for the long rant, but the Salukis have lost to two National Champs, and probably should have advanced past the second round once, but did not do it.

Coach Kill was just hoping to have a winning season in year four, yet he already has a winning record at the death trap of college football as it was called when he took the job. Do the Salukis need to step it up? Yes they do!! Will coach Kill do everything he can to make that happen? You bet he will. Will the Salukis make it to the NCAA's for the 5th year in a row...you bet they will. Will they advance past the second round? Maybe a home game in round two would make a difference, but that is where money comes into play, and SIU simply cannot bid against the Yiungstown's, Montana, and Appy state's fo the world. if those teams are going to be 9-2 or 10-1 you know who will have home field advantage every year.

[CrunchGriz]

The NCAA lets Montana get away with a lot of things that are not supposed to happen at a game, because they get a lot of money from the Montana athletic department. I won't go into NCAA rules for playoff games, but Montana destroys the rules of fairness according to the NCAA Championship rule book. Not sour grapes, just facts. The home field advantage is suppoed to only go so far in the playoffs..and Montana flat out destruys the rules.

I'm sorry, but this definitely smacks of sour grapes.

How, pray tell, does Montana "destroy the rules of fairness according to the NCAA Championship rule book"? You make this accusation, quite baldly, with no substantiation. What are you getting at? I've never heard another team or fan from any other team claim this, and Montana has been in the playoffs a bunch over the last decade plus.

[Killsback]

Not sour grapes at all. I just know that when SIU hosted a game there was not music after the team broke the huddle because it is against the "Rules". There is not supposed to be the "Make Noise" sign flashing at the snap of the football. There is not supposed to be tee shirts shot up into the stands during playoff games. There is not supposed to be any marketing done whatsoever unless it is done by an NCAA Sponsor. The PA Announcer is supposed to be non partial with first down calls...

You can guarantee the NCAA over $500,000 per home game...they will look the other way as far as the little sportsmanship rules go. This was not the reason you won the game. Your defense was outstanding. I am just saying that you don't need to bend the rules because you have a phenomenal home field advantage anyway.

This was the first road game that SIU has played where the NCAA Championship rules were not followed. That's all. You beat us up and down the field.

[Tailbone]

...... year two was the year SIU was 10-1 again and ranked number 1 in the nation........

And there is where your (conspiracy) theory disintegrates.
Had you done your job as a #1 seed, you'd have been home through the playoffs - for a mere $120,000 plus a percentage of receipts.
Nobody would have taken that from you.

Yep! Sour grapes.

[Ronbo]

You know something the ESPN guys kept saying was how young the Salukis were. Montana is actually younger and started less seniors.

[twentythreeOh4]

Not sour grapes at all. I just know that when SIU hosted a game there was not music after the team broke the huddle because it is against the "Rules". There is not supposed to be the "Make Noise" sign flashing at the snap of the football. There is not supposed to be tee shirts shot up into the stands during playoff games. There is not supposed to be any marketing done whatsoever unless it is done by an NCAA Sponsor. The PA Announcer is supposed to be non partial with first down calls...

You can guarantee the NCAA over $500,000 per home game...they will look the other way as far as the little sportsmanship rules go. This was not the reason you won the game. Your defense was outstanding. I am just saying that you don't need to bend the rules because you have a phenomenal home field advantage anyway.

This was the first road game that SIU has played where the NCAA Championship rules were not followed. That's all. You beat us up and down the field.

WOW! You lost the game because of the PA announcer and T-Shirts being shot into the stands? If that's all it takes to knock SIU out of the playoffs good luck ever winning a NC.

The fact is the PA announce was extremely monotone and was not partial to Montana. It wasn't the PA announcer who shouted MONTANA after each first down it was the CROWD. Is there an NCAA rule against that? SIU fans could have shouted too -- well they could have if you had gotten more than 1 first down in the first half.

The make noise sign -- if you think that made one bit of difference, I got a bridge to sell you. Montana fans are always loud when the other team is on offense.

Maybe SIU should work on improving it's game day atmosphere so you can actually get more fans in the stands for your next playoff game.

[griz8791]

I've never heard another team or fan from any other team claim this, and Montana has been in the playoffs a bunch over the last decade plus.

Uh-oh. Welcome to the reprise of "Cannongate."

[putter]

Not sour grapes at all. I just know that when SIU hosted a game there was not music after the team broke the huddle because it is against the "Rules". There is not supposed to be the "Make Noise" sign flashing at the snap of the football. There is not supposed to be tee shirts shot up into the stands during playoff games. There is not supposed to be any marketing done whatsoever unless it is done by an NCAA Sponsor. The PA Announcer is supposed to be non partial with first down calls...

You can guarantee the NCAA over $500,000 per home game...they will look the other way as far as the little sportsmanship rules go. This was not the reason you won the game. Your defense was outstanding. I am just saying that you don't need to bend the rules because you have a phenomenal home field advantage anyway.

This was the first road game that SIU has played where the NCAA Championship rules were not followed. That's all. You beat us up and down the field.

WOW! You need to come to a conference game and you will hear what our announcer really sounds like. I guarantee he was impartial :nod: The NCAA says that you must take down temporary marketing for the playoffs. If it is permanent signage then it does not have to come down. The LCD screens in each corner of the stadium usually have ads on them, during the game they had the NCAA logo.

[CrunchGriz]

Uh-oh. Welcome to the reprise of "Cannongate."

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that one. :smiley_wi

I just looked at the 2006 Division I Championship Handbook, and couldn't find the provisions Killsback obliquely mentioned.

I know there are some rules about such things, like announcer's enthusiasm for one team over the other, but I can't seem to find them. Killsback, do you have a URL for them?

[elkmcc]

It Kills me to see team after team fabricate justification for why they couldn't handle Wa/Griz. Seems these teams are spending more time dreaming up excuses than they are on game preparation. They should do what the other BSC teams do; prepare all year for the Griz. Oh, that didn't work either did it?xlolx