Monmouth and San Diego

[woffordgrad94]

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here, but why didn't undefeated San Diego get an invite to the playoffs? I saw them on CSTV Saturday afternoon playing at Monmouth, another team with a great record that didn't get in, and they whipped them on the road, 26-7 I believe. Also, are Ivy League teams ineligible for the playoffs? They never get invites either no matter waht their record.

[YaleFootballFan]

Also, are Ivy League teams ineligible for the playoffs? They never get invites either no matter waht their record.

Fifty years ago the presidents of the eight Ivy League schools placed a ban prohibiting all Ivy schools from participating in football post season play. Unfortunately, that ban is still in effect today and I don't think we'll ever see it lifted.

[ereiz03]

Why would he place such a ban??

[CCU97]

Because tbhey see football as a distraction to academics....kind of like you guys and scholarships...why wouldn't you do it...it makes sense but hasn't happened...

[CCU97]

94 to answer your question about SD...the committee felt like they played a weak schedule and was not worthy of playing...if SD does what CCU did and step up they will be rewarded. Although CCU did have to play App. St in the first round at the Rock and we all know how tough that is....

[YaleFootballFan]

Why would he place such a ban??

The Ivy League "powers that be" felt that by participating in post season play, it would take student-athletes away from the classroom unnecessarily and interfere with exams. Football is the only varsity sport in the Ivy League that is prohibited from playing in the postseason. I know some (like Penn and Harvard) are trying to get the ban lifted, but I think it's a losing battle.....bless them for trying though.....

http://prince-web1.princeton.edu/archives/2006/03/13/news/14846.shtml

[woffordgrad94]

It doesn't seem right to me to stop Ivy League football teams from participating in the playoffs. They let their basketball teams go to the NCAA Tournament. It seems like a double standard. Maybe it has to do with the fact that football playoffs are near semester exam time, but I think they could work something out to where players could still complete their exams just like they do at other schools...other schools whose students are not as smart as those in the Ivy League. I really doubt Ivy Leaguers would have any problems with doing this.

[rmutv]

Hate to play into stereotypical thinking, but the Ivy League is more focused on academics than athletics. They value those final exams more than the administrations at Ohio State or USC or Florida, as evidenced by the graduation rates at those schools.

Sure, there are quality students and bad eggs at every school. But years ago, the Ivy League presidents placed a premium on academics, and they've done really well in that department while still performing quite well in the athletic department.

Some schools just don't value postseason play as much as others.

[GOTOREROS]

Because tbhey see football as a distraction to academics....kind of like you guys and scholarships...why wouldn't you do it...it makes sense but hasn't happened...

USD does not have scholarships dues to financial considerations, not philiosophical considerations. Again, a full scholarship to USD is 42k and yes, it is real dollars not funny money. USD is required to fund each scholarship 100% much like most the private schools in the PFL.

If it were simply a philosophical decision you would see USD with 85 scholarships not just 63 - just like all the fully funded schools. Wouldn't it make sense for ASU to be a I-A school with the fan support and success they have had?

The Ivy decision is a philosophical one....not financial.

[DFW HOYA]

The Ivy League "powers that be" felt that by participating in post season play, it would take student-athletes away from the classroom unnecessarily and interfere with exams. [/URL]

"Powers that be"= Harvard, Yale, and Princeton.

[AppGuy04]

Maybe you missed USD losing to UC Davis just last week. San Diego is not undefeated and showed their true colors last week. That is all I have to say

[usdtoreros]

Maybe you missed USD losing to UC Davis just last week. San Diego is not undefeated and showed their true colors last week. That is all I have to say

But Montana State losing 45-0 to UC Davis put them in?

[Model Citizen]

The focus should not be on Montana State, but on the 8 automatic bids, some of which went to teams nowhere close to the top 16 in power ratings or polls.

Either give automatic bids to every conference or give them to no one.

[MiamiTorero]

Maybe you missed USD losing to UC Davis just last week. San Diego is not undefeated and showed their true colors last week. That is all I have to say


You're right they showed they could compete on the scholarship level even though they are nonscholarship. They definitely competed in that game. Just ask Davis players and coaches.

[OldTiredGriz]

I was hoping that USD would get a playoff invite. Harbaugh has a good program going down there; I guess the strength of schedule just wasn't quite enough for the playoff bid. But as long as the Toreros keep winning, the selection committee will keep noticing them. The mid-major delineation is sort of a catch 22 for scheduling. Many teams would avoid scheduling a USD because a win over USD (being a "mid-major") would hurt them on strength of schedule and a loss to them would hurt on the so-called "bad" loss side of the argument. USD beat Yale on the road and played UC Davis pretty close (leading at half, I believe) but the other 9 opponents were not as strong in the eyes of the selection committee. Of course I am not on the committee and am only surmising and offering my opinion, no more.

[AppGuy04]

You're right they showed they could compete on the scholarship level even though they are nonscholarship. They definitely competed in that game. Just ask Davis players and coaches.

Not gonna argue there, you are right, they competed, with a non-playoff caliber 6-5 Davis team. Good team? yes. Playoff worthy? no. That is pretty clear. No smack, obvious facts.

[DetroitFlyer]

USD is most likely a top 16, CS team. The current structure of the playoffs does not put the best 16 teams in CS into the playoffs.... USD was shafted by the playoff committee and it shows me that this "championship" is much more like the BCS than any of you care to believe! As in can you say subjective...? Fix the playoff problems, and then claim that the CS Champion is crowned on the field. Not the case today in my opinion!

[GOTOREROS]

Not gonna argue there, you are right, they competed, with a non-playoff caliber 6-5 Davis team. Good team? yes. Playoff worthy? no. That is pretty clear. No smack, obvious facts.

If USD is not playoff worthy and lost by 10 in Davis, what does that say about Montana State who lost 45-0 at home to UC Davis? By your logic MSU shouldn't be in the playoffs either after getting SMOKED by a non-playoff caliber team. Just wondering if you could comment on that?

[3yards]

USD is most likely a top 16, CS team. The current structure of the playoffs does not put the best 16 teams in CS into the playoffs.... USD was shafted by the playoff committee and it shows me that this "championship" is much more like the BCS than any of you care to believe! As in can you say subjective...? Fix the playoff problems, and then claim that the CS Champion is crowned on the field. Not the case today in my opinion!

There seems to be a bigger bias about a team like USD not having scholarships compared to their schedule. If a 10-0 team that beat the IVY league champion can not make the playoffs, then how much of a chance with an improved scheule make? Athletic Directors and coaches on the selection committee do not want to answer to their Presidents how a non scholarship team can make the playoffs over all these other teams spending lots of money.

[GOTOREROS]

There seems to be a bigger bias about a team like USD not having scholarships compared to their schedule. If a 10-0 team that beat the IVY league champion can not make the playoffs, then how much of a chance with an improved scheule make? Athletic Directors and coaches on the selection committee do not want to answer to their Presidents how a non scholarship team can make the playoffs over all these other teams spending lots of money.

I agree. Many CS schools are strapped for cash, so it wouldn't be a great thing for other AD's to explain to trustee's, preidents, etc...

[3yards]

Fifty years ago the presidents of the eight Ivy League schools placed a ban prohibiting all Ivy schools from participating in football post season play. Unfortunately, that ban is still in effect today and I don't think we'll ever see it lifted.

Apparently this IVY Footall policy was voted on again 4 years ago and defeated. Is ridiculous to me. Let the Football team play a post-season game or two. Like everyone all the rest of their teams in their schools. How would that go over banning IVY Men's Basketball from the NCAA playoffs? What would the Football players vote? You know darn well they would want to play. And it can not help recruting as it is now. As mentioned earlier it is not a financial consideration, is a philosophy.

[lizrdgizrd]

If USD is not playoff worthy and lost by 10 in Davis, what does that say about Montana State who lost 45-0 at home to UC Davis? By your logic MSU shouldn't be in the playoffs either after getting SMOKED by a non-playoff caliber team. Just wondering if you could comment on that?
Well, they're not in the playoffs anymore.


USD is most likely a top 16, CS team. The current structure of the playoffs does not put the best 16 teams in CS into the playoffs.... USD was shafted by the playoff committee and it shows me that this "championship" is much more like the BCS than any of you care to believe! As in can you say subjective...? Fix the playoff problems, and then claim that the CS Champion is crowned on the field. Not the case today in my opinion!
Tell me that the 4 teams left in the playoffs aren't the 4 best teams in the FCS. The purpose of the playoffs isn't to find the best 16 teams in the FCS, it's to find the single best team in the FCS. When the cream rises to the top the system isn't broken.

[GOTOREROS]

Well, they're not in the playoffs anymore.

Yes - comment on them making and hosting in the first round......

[lizrdgizrd]

Yes - comment on them making and hosting in the first round......
I can't explain why they made the playoffs, but they hosted because they put the $$ on the table. Plain and simple.

[lucchesicourt]

First off USD is a good team, IMO. However are they playoff caliber? No, nor is UCD right now. UCD had over 500 yards of offense against THE top 1AA defense? Right!!
So, what does that say about their competition. A good "D" does not let that happen except, against the best of opponents. Currently, UCD is not one of them. Josh showed that with a good pass rush he can be held down somewhat. Sure , he had over 300 yards passing, but he also completed less than 50% of his passes, and NOT against one of the best pass defenses in the country.
Can a non schollie team compete at the 1AA level? I say yes, but it takes a lot more for a non scholly team to be successful compared to schollie schools. UCD in a few years should be at the full schollie level, and it will just make it harder for non schollie teams to compete for the quality players against the Cali schollie schools. UCD faced this problem as a D2, and I see the same for USD without schollies. Sure the 2000-2001 UCD teams could have competed with many D1AA schools, but with the top 10-15 they would have had a very difficult time winning, even with a pro level QB, and 3 WR's who were of the same caliber.

[3yards]

Well, they're not in the playoffs anymore.


Tell me that the 4 teams left in the playoffs aren't the 4 best teams in the FCS. The purpose of the playoffs isn't to find the best 16 teams in the FCS, it's to find the single best team in the FCS. When the cream rises to the top the system isn't broken.

Davis at the end of the season had the 122 overall Division 1 ranked schedule in Sagarin, which was one of the top 5 highest I can see in 1AA.
Davis is better than 6-5.

[lizrdgizrd]

Davis at the end of the season had the 122 overall Division 1 ranked schedule in Sagarin, which was one of the top 5 highest I can see in 1AA.
Davis is better than 6-5.
Davis is a good team, but they're not playoff good. Turn one or two of those losses around and they would have made it. I think we'll be hearing from them again next year, but in the playoffs.

[AZGrizFan]

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here, but why didn't undefeated San Diego get an invite to the playoffs? I saw them on CSTV Saturday afternoon playing at Monmouth, another team with a great record that didn't get in, and they whipped them on the road, 26-7 I believe. Also, are Ivy League teams ineligible for the playoffs? They never get invites either no matter waht their record.

They're not undefeated. :cool: :cool: :cool:

[DetroitFlyer]

Now, folks try to say that UC Davis is not a playoff caliber team with a 6-5record. Playing in the highest rated conference in CS with one of the hardest schedules in CS.... Now tell me, how 6-5 Lafayette is a playoff team and USD is not again...? This system is seriously broken and needs to be fixed to have any credibility at all.

[3yards]

Davis is a good team, but they're not playoff good. Turn one or two of those losses around and they would have made it. I think we'll be hearing from them again next year, but in the playoffs.
Yes, I am sure Davis will be in the playoffs again next year if they have a similar qb and receivers.

[CCU97]

Now, folks try to say that UC Davis is not a playoff caliber team with a 6-5record. Playing in the highest rated conference in CS with one of the hardest schedules in CS.... Now tell me, how 6-5 Lafayette is a playoff team and USD is not again...? This system is seriously broken and needs to be fixed to have any credibility at all.


I'm not sure anyone other than Patriot leaguers would disagree with you....Plain and simple they are in an auto qualifier league and won the league....I don't agree with it but those are the rules...

[AppGuy04]

If USD is not playoff worthy and lost by 10 in Davis, what does that say about Montana State who lost 45-0 at home to UC Davis? By your logic MSU shouldn't be in the playoffs either after getting SMOKED by a non-playoff caliber team. Just wondering if you could comment on that?

I never thought they should have made it. I think there were other 7-4 teams better than they, but that wasn't my choice.

[LBPop]

Apparently this IVY Footall policy was voted on again 4 years ago and defeated. Is ridiculous to me.

This topic regularly pops up on this board and I have said in a variety of ways that there is no logic to the Ivy League's decision to ban football playoff participation. It is arrogance and snobbery pure and simple. The academic argument is transparent as they participate in many other playoffs. I think it can be best explained by offering a fabricated (but essentially accurate) statement that the League would issue if they had the courage:

"The Ivy League is comprised of the eight finest colleges in the United States and we believe that football is an important part of the Ivy tradition. Given the unique nature of our members, the championship of the Ivy League brings far more stature than competing in or even winning a championship played by inferior institutions with far lower academic standards. We don't participate in the playoffs because it would serve no purpose. Our football teams are made up of superior individuals and thus need no additional validation."

No, the League has never issued any such statement. But I would wager that many of the senior officials would privately subscribe to its premise. Some better informed members of this board believe that this is being perpetuated by a small group within the league. Sadly, I see no change in this policy anytime soon.

[MiamiTorero]

I never thought they should have made it. I think there were other 7-4 teams better than they, but that wasn't my choice.

So do you think it is possible that USD is better than a few of the teams that made playoffs? I'm not asking you to state facts just asking you if it is possible?

[YoUDeeMan]

So do you think it is possible that USD is better than a few of the teams that made playoffs? I'm not asking you to state facts just asking you if it is possible?


#1) USD wasn't in the playoffs.
#2) USD didn't do anything to earn a spot in the playoffs.
#3) Repeat #1 and #2.

All other arguements are fantasies. :bawling:

But, if you want to go one step further, there were plenty of other BETTER teams than USD that didn't make the playoffs. Wofford, PSU, NDSU, SDSU, Towson, Maine, NIU...and the list goes on. And I mean on and on. USD did nothing to prove that they were even close to being a worthy selection for the playoffs. Not even close. xidiotx

[lizrdgizrd]

So do you think it is possible that USD is better than a few of the teams that made playoffs? I'm not asking you to state facts just asking you if it is possible?
I haven't seen any indication out of USD that they can play up to the level of the game in the playoffs. The win over Monmouth was nice. 3 or 4 of those next year and I think you'll earn a chance to prove you belong. I don't think anyone has questioned that USD has a good team. You just need to play a tougher schedule. :cool:

[bkrownd]

#2) USD didn't do anything to earn a spot in the playoffs.


Neither did some of the teams that were in the playoffs. :eyebrow: It was a very weak year.

[downbythebeach]

Miami and Cluck it sounds like you agree, just on different teams

[MiamiTorero]

#1) USD wasn't in the playoffs.
#2) USD didn't do anything to earn a spot in the playoffs.
#3) Repeat #1 and #2.

All other arguements are fantasies. :bawling:

But, if you want to go one step further, there were plenty of other BETTER teams than USD that didn't make the playoffs. Wofford, PSU, NDSU, SDSU, Towson, Maine, NIU...and the list goes on. And I mean on and on. USD did nothing to prove that they were even close to being a worthy selection for the playoffs. Not even close. xidiotx



And that has what to do with the question I asked? I didnt state onnce there USD deserves to be in the playoffs even though I believe they did. But that is besides the point you took as if I did say that. Learn how to answer questions correctly please before you attempt to answer them at all.

[PDXCat]

I never thought they should have made it. I think there were other 7-4 teams better than they, but that wasn't my choice.

Typical App response. :boring:

[BeauFoster]

Typical App response. :boring:


Please clarify...

[AppGuy04]

So do you think it is possible that USD is better than a few of the teams that made playoffs? I'm not asking you to state facts just asking you if it is possible?

This year, there are only 2 playoff teams that USD could even remotely compete against, McNeese St and Lafayette, both of which are the same caliber teams as UC Davis IMO. Neither one of these teams would have made the field of 16 if all were at large berths. Is it possible that they can compete with playoff caliber teams, yes, but very few. If you recall, those 2 teams were win or go home when it came to the last game of the season.

[usdtoreros]

This year, there are only 2 playoff teams that USD could even remotely compete against, McNeese St and Lafayette, both of which are the same caliber teams as UC Davis IMO. Neither one of these teams would have made the field of 16 if all were at large berths. Is it possible that they can compete with playoff caliber teams, yes, but very few. If you recall, those 2 teams were win or go home when it came to the last game of the season.

So you don't think USD couldn't remotely compete with Montana State? Give me your logic behind that one.

[bkrownd]

At least USD can beat D-2 teams. :)

[3yards]

#1) USD wasn't in the playoffs.
#2) USD didn't do anything to earn a spot in the playoffs.
#3) Repeat #1 and #2.

All other arguements are fantasies. :bawling:

But, if you want to go one step further, there were plenty of other BETTER teams than USD that didn't make the playoffs. Wofford, PSU, NDSU, SDSU, Towson, Maine, NIU...and the list goes on. And I mean on and on. USD did nothing to prove that they were even close to being a worthy selection for the playoffs. Not even close. xidiotx

NDSU was arguably the best team in DIAA Football this year, but not eligible, as not UC Davis, and I believe SDSU. I find it hard there were a number of teams better than USD that were eligible that did not make it. But that is history now. My point is there is a bias against non-scholarship teams, who have never made the playoffs. And there are some leagues with automatic qualifiers who do not deserve it.

[YoUDeeMan]

And that has what to do with the question I asked? I didnt state onnce there USD deserves to be in the playoffs even though I believe they did. But that is besides the point you took as if I did say that. Learn how to answer questions correctly please before you attempt to answer them at all.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Thanks, Teach. :rolleyes:

Sorry, I am not a product of the "teach to the test" generation. Rather than parrot out line-by-line answers to leading questions, some of us have learned how to extrapolate or interpret where someone is going with their questions.

Of course, you already know where you and some others are trying to go. Since the USD nation lost their propaganda campaign to get them in the playoffs, you are now fishing for a reason to say that USD is a playoff caliber team.

Answer: No.

Thought I'd save time and sum it up for you - again. :thumbsup:

[BillLuc1982]

At least USD can beat D-2 teams. :)

D-2 high school teams? :D

[YoUDeeMan]

My point is there is a bias against non-scholarship teams, who have never made the playoffs.

Your point is delusional and paranoid. Nothing more.

Follow the light of reason here…

If USD had played and beaten Yale, UCD, and one other OOC team with established credentials, they would have had a good shot at the playoffs. If, or course, they played those teams BEFORE the playoffs started. :smiley_wi

3 quality wins – if your team could manage that. Reality check: USD couldn’t even manage a second quality win against UCD.

It is that simple.

Really.

No goblins. No bias. No Old Guard monsters. Just show the committee some quality wins and the USD football team will be taken seriously.

[MiamiTorero]

Your point is delusional and paranoid. Nothing more.

Follow the light of reason here…

If USD had played and beaten Yale, UCD, and one other OOC team with established credentials, they would have had a good shot at the playoffs. If, or course, they played those teams BEFORE the playoffs started. :smiley_wi

3 quality wins – if your team could manage that. Reality check: USD couldn’t even manage a second quality win against UCD.

It is that simple.

Really.

No goblins. No bias. No Old Guard monsters. Just show the committee some quality wins and the USD football team will be taken seriously.


:giveadamn:

[lucchesicourt]

UCD was definitely better than USD, and UCD lost 4 games to teams that were 1AA ranked teams and a top ranked 1A team. UCD can claim that they played a competetive schedule and USD cannot. Everyone looks at UCD's record rather than who the losses were to, and how close the scores were. We are definitely going to be competetive next year, as we add our great recruiting class of last year, and increase our schollie level. USD played an under schollied UCD team as compared to the established 1AA elite teams. USD is a quality team, but this year they were no better than our team, and IMO this year we were not playoff quality, as we could not inflict the coup de grace on our opponents. Next year we hope to be able to accomplish this. USD should be recognized as an excellent non schollie program and congratulated on a great year, but I don't see them being able to compete with the cream of 1AA without schollies. I hope they add schollies and join the newest and best conference in 1AA, the GWFC. Please stay SDSU and NDSU. Sure, we can add teams like the UXD's, but they are not the same. Our D2 history together goes way beyond 1AA conferences.