The Future of Football in the Big South

[The Cats]

I saw something interesting in the Big South Strategic Plan - this statement listed as an additional priority of the conference, under Membership - "The Big South shall explore a separate single-conference for football members"


I don't know the context, without the talking points for that slide, but the slide show was produced before the CCU announcement, so the Big South Membership has been thinking about this for a while.

I wonder if they are looking to the CAA model of a separate Big South Football only conference, or a completely separate unaffiliated conference.


see the attached slide show, go to page 26 - http://big-south.s3.amazonaws.com/medias/files/11543/original.pdf?1437057646


Any ideas or thoughts on this?

[RichH2]

Not sure about plans ,but I do see a time on AGS ,when someone post a Remember the Big South thread :)

[superman7515]

I think this is the link you wanted...

http://big-south.s3.amazonaws.com/medias/files/11543/original.pdf?1437057646

[walliver]

The majority of Big South members do not play scholarship football. It would make sense to separate out football. The only real targets for football would be the A-Sun. The A-Sun is somewhat unstable as it is, so I don't know how well that would work.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The math here is five members of the Big South sponsor football. If/when Liiberty leaves they will be down to four members, unless they invite Jacksonville U. as an all-sport, football-playing member from the A-Sun. As others have mentioned, Stetson is another possibility.

If the Big South wants to work with a conference like the A-Sun for the benefit of both conferences, adding Stetson and Jacksonville as associate members makes a lot of sense, but only in a CAA-like detached conference where the number of associate members equals the number of all-sports members. But if the Big South wants to actually keep membership the same level, they'd offer all-sports memberships to both schools.

[KPSUL]

Not sure about plans ,but I do see a time on AGS ,when someone post a Remember the Big South thread :)

What was that conference that had one good season in 2014? "Big" something or other.

[Sandlapper Spike]

STRATEGIC GOAL

The Big South Conference shall be the premiere non-FBS conference in the Southeast

Heh. Apparently the league wasn't concerned with being the most grammatically aware non-FBS conference in the Southeast...

[The Cats]

I think this is the link you wanted...

http://big-south.s3.amazonaws.com/medias/files/11543/original.pdf?1437057646

you are right, thanks.......

[chattanoogamocs]

I assume this has been on the radar for the Big South for the last decade. They have always teetered on the edge of not having enough teams to keep the autobid. If they are going to survive, they are definitely going to need to convince some Southern PFL teams to move up to scholarship ball.

[hebmskebm]

If they can get the Southern PFL Three (Jacksonville, Campbell, Stetson) to come on board it can buy them some time. Davidson is also in the PFL and in the footprint but them coming on board is...unlikely at best.

[walliver]

If they can get the Southern PFL Three (Jacksonville, Campbell, Stetson) to come on board it can buy them some time. Davidson is also in the PFL and in the footprint but them coming on board is...unlikely at best.

In the very unlikely situation where Davidson decides to play scholarship football, I suspect they would petition the CAA for football-only membership. Their basketball isn't leaving the A-10. The SoCon won't take them football-only. Given a choice of Big South vs. Pioneer, I believe they would stay where they are.

[chattanoogamocs]

Now that they are playing and paying for "big time basketball" I can't imagine Davidson is going to spend any money on football, so the point is kind of moot (meaning they didn't give a flip for the last 30-40 years, what would make them change now...they've probably doubled their basketball expenses).

Now that CCU is leaving and presumably Liberty is out the first chance they get, are any of the remaining football schools giving 63 scholarships? (I thought I read that CSU and GWebb weren't) I could almost see the Big South putting a cap on scholarships to make it easier (and more competitive) for some of the PFL teams to move up. Cost containment football might help the Big South survive on the grid iron (though it wouldn't be good in the overall FCS picture).

[rokamortis]

The majority of Big South members do not play scholarship football. It would make sense to separate out football. The only real targets for football would be the A-Sun. The A-Sun is somewhat unstable as it is, so I don't know how well that would work.

Can you back that up with a source? I thought there was a minimum scholarship level for all BSC teams ... although there has been talk of some going non-scholarship. Plus many of the teams live on FBS paydays and they'd have to provide a significant level of scholarships to be countable for the FBS teams.

Edit: I think I get what you are saying now. I thought it was in context of Big South football but you were talking all-sports members. Most don't play football at all and Campbell being a non-scholarship team.

[superman7515]

You have to believe Jacksonville is interested in scholarship football, but I can't pretend to know anything about Stetson and none of their fans ever show up on the boards, so anyone have any insight to add for them?

[PaladinFan]

You have to believe Jacksonville is interested in scholarship football, but I can't pretend to know anything about Stetson and none of their fans ever show up on the boards, so anyone have any insight to add for them?

Stetson is an interesting case. They have a deep historic rivalry with Mercer (one reason you keep seeing Stetson show up on Mercer's schedule), and both schools restarted their football programs at the same time. That may well be a catalyst for moving to scholarship football.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Now that they are playing and paying for "big time basketball" I can't imagine Davidson is going to spend any money on football, so the point is kind of moot (meaning they didn't give a flip for the last 30-40 years, what would make them change now...they've probably doubled their basketball expenses).

Now that CCU is leaving and presumably Liberty is out the first chance they get, are any of the remaining football schools giving 63 scholarships? (I thought I read that CSU and GWebb weren't) I could almost see the Big South putting a cap on scholarships to make it easier (and more competitive) for some of the PFL teams to move up. Cost containment football might help the Big South survive on the grid iron (though it wouldn't be good in the overall FCS picture).

I don't think the Big South would put a cap on football scholarships unless FCS as a whole reduced schollies (which is not out of the question, in my opinion). I can't imagine the league doing it while Liberty is still hanging around.

[Cocky]

TUNA is ready to move if someone would invite them.

[Model Citizen]

You have to believe Jacksonville is interested in scholarship football, but I can't pretend to know anything about Stetson and none of their fans ever show up on the boards, so anyone have any insight to add for them?

JU fans have started rumors that Stetson will leave the PFL. Probably not based on anything. However, I share your belief that Jacksonville wants scholarship football. IMO, Stetson will follow in the Dolphins finprints.

Beyond this year, how does JU stay in a non-scholarship league while openly giving scholarships?

[Model Citizen]

Stetson is an interesting case. They have a deep historic rivalry with Mercer (one reason you keep seeing Stetson show up on Mercer's schedule), and both schools restarted their football programs at the same time. That may well be a catalyst for moving to scholarship football.

Do you think they'll go Big South...or SoCon?

[walliver]

Do you think they'll go Big South...or SoCon?

I doubt that either Jacksonville or Stetson would be invited to the SoCon at present. The SoCon is reasonably stable with 4 Privates, 4 Publics (counting UNC-G), and 2 Military Schools. Adding Stetson and/or Jacksonville would upset that balance. That is a significant reason why PC, GWU, and CSU won't be considered either.

Both could potentially be candidates if a replacement was needed.

[ElCid]

Now that they are playing and paying for "big time basketball" I can't imagine Davidson is going to spend any money on football, so the point is kind of moot (meaning they didn't give a flip for the last 30-40 years, what would make them change now...they've probably doubled their basketball expenses).

Now that CCU is leaving and presumably Liberty is out the first chance they get, are any of the remaining football schools giving 63 scholarships? (I thought I read that CSU and GWebb weren't) I could almost see the Big South putting a cap on scholarships to make it easier (and more competitive) for some of the PFL teams to move up. Cost containment football might help the Big South survive on the grid iron (though it wouldn't be good in the overall FCS picture).

If Big South Football were to fold, implode, (fill in the blank), ignoring the schedule implications to the SOCON, if Liberty continues to be shut out of FBS, I would be inclined to look favorably at them in the SOCON. The SC schools in the BS just don't add anything to the SOCON. From a geographic standpoint, I liked the Samford and Mercer adds. And while Liberty is only 20-30 miles from Lexington, adding another VA school may not seem necessary, the fact that they have a large student body from all over couldn't help but improve SOCON exposure. Take the fact that they have an established and highly competitive program and it would seem like a good fit, for football at least. I don't follow their other spots but I assume they are competitive as well. It would screw up the SOCON schedule, and they still might leave in the near future, but at the least we could make sure the exit fee is upped a bit before we invite them.xeyebrowx It would give VMI a nice short trip conference mate as well. Who knows, they might be around a long while. But I suspect that a spot for them in an FBS conference will eventually be found.

[dgtw]

You have to believe Jacksonville is interested in scholarship football, but I can't pretend to know anything about Stetson and none of their fans ever show up on the boards, so anyone have any insight to add for them?

They are keeping that information under their hat.

[dgtw]

If Big South Football were to fold, implode, (fill in the blank), ignoring the schedule implications to the SOCON, if Liberty continues to be shut out of FBS, I would be inclined to look favorably at them in the SOCON. The SC schools in the BS just don't add anything to the SOCON. From a geographic standpoint, I liked the Samford and Mercer adds. And while Liberty is only 20-30 miles from Lexington, adding another VA school may not seem necessary, the fact that they have a large student body from all over couldn't help but improve SOCON exposure. Take the fact that they have an established and highly competitive program and it would seem like a good fit, for football at least. I don't follow their other spots but I assume they are competitive as well. It would screw up the SOCON schedule, and they still might leave in the near future, but at the least we could make sure the exit fee is upped a bit before we invite them.xeyebrowx It would give VMI a nice short trip conference mate as well. Who knows, they might be around a long while. But I suspect that a spot for them in an FBS conference will eventually be found.

I would love for Jax State to get in the SoCon. We'd have three conference rivals closer than any of our current road trips.

[Laker]

Maybe Notre Dame would join.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2015-09-10/ncaa-football-players-paid-athletes-salaries-notre-dame-cost-of-attendance-money-value?eadid=SOC%2FFBSNMain

[ElCid]

I would love for Jax State to get in the SoCon. We'd have three conference rivals closer than any of our current road trips.

You know I never really think about that possibility. But you guys are pretty close. I know more than a few SOCON fans do not like that idea.

[dgtw]

Why do they oppose the idea? What do you think?

[Sandlapper Spike]

Three possible reasons.

1) Jacksonville State has interest in the FBS. The SoCon is not going to be interested in just being a way station while a program tries to latch on with the Sun Belt, CUSA, etc. (This issue also applies to Liberty.)

2) I suspect that geography would hurt Jacksonville State in terms of getting votes. JSU will not be getting Wofford's vote for that reason alone, for example. VMI doesn't want to make any more trips within the conference of that length, either.

3) The recent APR issues don't help.

[The Cats]

Why do they oppose the idea? What do you think?

IMO, if JSU would make a commitment to remain FCS for a set amount of time, I think they could get the minimum votes needed. That FBS thing would be the obstacle to overcome.

[chattanoogamocs]

Three possible reasons.

1) Jacksonville State has interest in the FBS. The SoCon is not going to be interested in just being a way station while a program tries to latch on with the Sun Belt, CUSA, etc. (This issue also applies to Liberty.)


This is why Kennesaw State got very little traction in the last round of additions, too many people were worried they would pull and Georgia State and skip almost immediately to FBS (I think any large school in a large urban area will consider the quick jump to FBS, see: Ga St and Charlotte). Jax State and Liberty have all made open declarations of wanting to move up, which kills any chance of another FCS conference having any interest.

[DoWe]

Three possible reasons.1) Jacksonville State has interest in the FBS. The SoCon is not going to be interested in just being a way station while a program tries to latch on with the Sun Belt, CUSA, etc. (This issue also applies to Liberty.)2) I suspect that geography would hurt Jacksonville State in terms of getting votes. JSU will not be getting Wofford's vote for that reason alone, for example. VMI doesn't want to make any more trips within the conference of that length, either.3) The recent APR issues don't help.I will take reason number 3 as carrying the most weight. Followed by 2 & 1 equally.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Noting SoCon thread hijack...

Hard for the Patriot to get in on this action unless we talk about Monmouth. Nah... not going there...

[chattanoogamocs]

I don't think the Big South would put a cap on football scholarships unless FCS as a whole reduced schollies (which is not out of the question, in my opinion). I can't imagine the league doing it while Liberty is still hanging around.

I only meant if Liberty was gone too. Obviously they can afford 63.

[dgtw]

1. The new president of Jax State (who came here from Robert Morris) said he is not interested in moving to FBS.

2. I get the geography, but we are closer to Wofford than Samford is. However, we can't move the campus.

3. The APR issues have improved.

[OL FU]

I am all for JSU. The question us also would they still be interested.

[Go...gate]

Noting SoCon thread hijack...

Hard for the Patriot to get in on this action unless we talk about Monmouth. Nah... not going there...

Not sure the PL wants Monmouth, even though it might make sense for football.

[dgtw]

I am all for JSU. The question us also would they still be interested.

Right now we have an interim AD, so nothing could be done until a full time person comes on board. I have no insider connections there, so I have no idea what the powers-that-be at JSU want.

However, I think most of our fan base would support the move, even if many have never really thought about it. I have two big problems with the OVC:

1. It is not a football league. Two members do not sponsor football and another is in the Pioneer League. Yes, the SoCon has a non-football member, but it is at least perceived as being more of a football league than basketball.

2. Everyone is too far away. Our closest conference rivals are Tennessee State and Tennessee tech, both about 3.5 hours from Jacksonville. Samford, Chattanooga and Mercer are all closer. Google maps says Wofford is 4:10 and Furman is 3:54.

I would not want to be in the Big South and would choose to stay in the OVC given a choice. They have way too many non-football teams and other than Kennesaw, nobody is very close. A road game in New Jersey is not something I want. (Nothing against the state of New Jersey, I doubt they would want to travel down here, either).

As I said, we don't have an actual AD, but if they hired me, the first call I make is the SoCon headquarters to see what it would take. Doesn't hurt to ask.

[chattanoogamocs]

Is JSU any good in the OVC at anything but football?

(that is truly not meant as a smart ass question...I don't know...I know men's / women's basketball has been pretty bad, put women's has improved somewhat now that the old Davidson coach is gone)

Someone from JSU pitch JSU for us.

[chattanoogamocs]

BTW, now that Crowe is gone (I really liked Clark and like Grass too), I would have no problem with JSU In the SoCon. It would be nice to have more rivals on the Eastern flank of the conference.