Week 1 FBS Upsets were Great. But....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I always love FBS upsets. They are thrilling and I enjoy following and watching them. However...

* Kansas (beat by South Dakota State) had so many suspended/departing players they may have only had a bit more than 63 scholarships
* Army (beat by Fordham) could be one of the worst teams in FBS and also may have been competing with fewer than 85 schollies
* Wyoming (beat by North Dakota) is a rebuilding low-en Mountain West team that wasn't expected to compte
* Washington State (beat by Portland State) has struggled mightily for years and is a cellar-dwellar in the Pac 12

All these schools had really good wins for their fan base. But was any, really a defining moment win over a great team?

The poll may shed light on which win was really the "best". But even the "best" isn't exactly App over Michigan or NDSU over Kansas State.

[kalm]

There a are few FBS programs like Army and Idaho that are not big deal wins but beating a P5 team, regardless of how down they are is a HUGE deal. The schollie, facilities, and support differences are massive. It should really never happen. That fact it continues to happen speaks volumes about the ability to coach, develop talent, and perhaps a narrowing gap in the level of athleticism at our level.

[Daytripper]

I always love FBS upsets. They are thrilling and I enjoy following and watching them. However...

* Kansas (beat by South Dakota State) had so many suspended/departing players they may have only had a bit more than 63 scholarships
* Army (beat by Fordham) could be one of the worst teams in FBS and also may have been competing with fewer than 85 schollies
* Wyoming (beat by North Dakota) is a rebuilding low-en Mountain West team that wasn't expected to compte
* Washington State (beat by Portland State) has struggled mightily for years and is a cellar-dwellar in the Pac 12

All these schools had really good wins for their fan base. But was any, really a defining moment win over a great team?

The poll may shed light on which win was really the "best". But even the "best" isn't exactly App over Michigan or NDSU over Kansas State.


Why do you want to s#!t on these accomplishments?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There a are few FBS programs like Army and Idaho that are not big deal wins but beating a P5 team, regardless of how down they are is a HUGE deal. The schollie, facilities, and support differences are massive. It should really never happen. That fact it continues to happen speaks volumes about the ability to coach, develop talent, and perhaps a narrowing gap in the level of athleticism at our level.

Good points. I agree.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why do you want to s#!t on these accomplishments?

Point here isn't to crap on the accomplishments but to put them in a bit of perspective. For example, Fordham folks are (rightfully) calling their game next week vs. Villanova a much sterner test for them than Army was last week. That's because despite the FCS/FBS distinction Villanova is a better team.

[RootinFerDukes]

South Dakota State beating Kansas is the "most marquee" of those wins. Kansas is essentially the least crappy of those four teams that lost.
Don't knock on Fcs teams for beating their fbs opponents. It's better than losing to the same crappy teams.

[Sitting Bull]

I think you also have to consider the competitiveness of other games as well. Even in a loss, an FCS team and its fans can still pull a lot of satisfaction out of some of the match-ups.

When W&M lost a tight game at West Virginia two years ago, after leading by 10 at the half, I still felt much more satisfied than after many other FCS games that we won. Just to see the players compete, play in such a large environment, etc. - it was all positive, pretty exciting, in my view.

Some of the close-but-not-quite this past weekend where I would bet the players and fans had a terrific experience:

Villanova/UConn: Though Nova was actually favored, not sure they felt good at all on this one. They should have won.
EWU/Oregon: scoring 6 TDs on the Ducks had to be thrilling.
Sam Houston/Texas Tech: Ditto from above, back and forth game.
VMI/Ball State: 500+ yards of O for the Keydets, something they rarely see - though frankly over half the teams in FCS could probably beat Ball State.
Towson/ECU: Lost 28-20 but Tigers have to feel pretty good hanging with the Pirates like this.
Youngstown/Pitt: almost a repeat from a few years ago, though just short, 45-37.
Southern Illinois/Indiana: lost 48-47, certainly deserved to be in the same field but this one was probably too close to lose and then not feel heart broken. The Salukis were up by 11 at the half.
Fordham/Army: they will be talking about this one for several years at Fordham. Nice win by the PL.

It's very tough to win these games on the road. Maybe it's just me, but it seems as soon as the home team gets threatened, out come the penalty flags.

Of course there were some huge mismatches as well, many of the SWAC and MEAC teams in particular, always favorites of the G5 group.

FCS in general did not fair that much worse than a lot of the G5/P5 matchups though. The Sun Belt and many in the MAC just got plowed in most of their major match-ups, not much difference.

[RabidRabbit]

Even as a Rabid Rabbit fan, the biggest surprise was Portland St over Washington St. PSU has been dismal the last several seasons. SDSU vs KU was 63 schollies vs 63 schollies, new coach and new system. This was a game Jacks really needed to play well. And they did... for a half... then showed enough guts (going for it on 4th & 5 in the 4th quarter with a 3 point lead). KU's highlighted botched spike...so Jayhawk football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FCS in general did not fair that much worse than a lot of the G5/P5 matchups though. The Sun Belt and many in the MAC just got plowed in most of their major match-ups, not much difference.

Just looked over the MAC and Sun Belt schedules. A few moral defeats (WMU vs. Michigan State leaps to mind), UL-LF vs. Kentucky, and not much else. Of very interesting note I believe the WMU game was a home game for the Broncos, so agreed, that makes a big difference.

[mvemjsunpx]

The only one up there I really agree with is SDSU beating Kansas. The Jayhawks are awful & I expected the Jackrabbits (even though they're probably worse than last year) to win that coming in.


Fordham's win was definitely impressive. Army isn't good, but they still beat a loaded Ram team last year. Fordham lost more production in the offseason than any other team in FCS.

Wyoming ain't great, but no long-standing FBS team should lose to an FCS team figured to be in the bottom half of their conference. And NoDak didn't just win, they dominated for 3 quarters.

Wazzu is a bottom-half PAC-12 team, but they still rank higher in the Sagarins than any FCS team at present (they probably won't after the week's over, but still…).

[ElCid]

Even as a Rabid Rabbit fan, the biggest surprise was Portland St over Washington St. PSU has been dismal the last several seasons. SDSU vs KU was 63 schollies vs 63 schollies, new coach and new system. This was a game Jacks really needed to play well. And they did... for a half... then showed enough guts (going for it on 4th & 5 in the 4th quarter with a 3 point lead). KU's highlighted botched spike...so Jayhawk football.

I think both were great wins and congrats to both schools. But I have to give the edge to Portland simply because SDSU and Kansas were much closer talent wise than Portland and Wash St. Portland is a bottom tier BS and is/was not expected to compete for the BS this year. Not so with SDSU and MVFC. They will be in thick of it. But that is the perspective in which I viewed it, that being from an expectation standpoint. Kansas is probably overall better than Wash St, but not by much, so from a pure win over the best opponent, small edge to SDSU.

[mvemjsunpx]

I think both were great wins and congrats to both schools. But I have to give the edge to Portland simply because SDSU and Kansas were much closer talent wise than Portland and Wash St. Portland is a bottom tier BS and is/was not expected to compete for the BS this year. Not so with SDSU and MVFC. They will be in thick of it. But that is the perspective in which I viewed it, that being from an expectation standpoint. Kansas is probably overall better than Wash St, but not by much, so from a pure win over the best opponent, small edge to SDSU.

Huh? Wazzu is way better than Kansas. Kansas might be the worst of all the P5 teams.

[JALMOND]

At the risk of sounding like a homer, but if I may put some perspective on the PSU/Wazzu game...

1. Portland State entered the game with the idea nationally that their football program is on life support (not true) and their coach is an interim coach, only coaching this season and never had been a head coach before (this is true).
2. Portland State has not been competitive on the national stage since 2006.
3. Washington State is a member of the Pac-12, a Power 5 conference, and whose coach has said this team is the best since he's been there.
4. Last year Washington State had 700 yards total offense (over 600 yards passing) against Portland State.

This PSU win was totally unexpected, both from a Wazzu perspective and a PSU perspective. Not to diminish any of the other FCS wins over FBS, but Portland State was the only winner not to have received even so much as one vote in any preseason FCS poll (North Dakota did receive at least one vote in all polls), and Top 25 South Dakota State was the only other team to beat a school from one of the Power 5 conferences (Kansas).

[RabidRabbit]

Kansas is where you want to play, especially this year, for a W. Glad Jacks finally get that FBS pelt added.

[thebootfitter]

(North Dakota did receive at least one vote in all polls)
While I agree with the sentiment of your post, I had to laugh at this. I'd be surprised if that vote for UND was really supposed to be for UND. That being said, they probably do deserve a vote or two in the FCS top 25 now.



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[ElCid]

Huh? Wazzu is way better than Kansas. Kansas might be the worst of all the P5 teams.

It is kind of hard quantifying the worst at this point, and when you are talking about these dogs, it shades of gray. The only thing objective at this point I was referencing is Massey's computer which lists Wash St as #90 (dead last P5) and Kansas as #82 (3rd from bottom in P5). Both miserable. They were both 3-9 last year. Computers are what they are--simply a data point.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I just read Portland State were 31 point underdogs. Is that true?

[FordhamFan]

Portland State in my opinion...just the combination of having been crushed by the same team last year, and the pure fact that PSU wasn't a highly respected team in the Big Sky, just totally knocked my socks off that they won.

NoDak also made me double take, but winning over P5 schools is just amazing.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Video Highlights of PSU win:

http://www.oregonlive.com/vikings/index.ssf/2015/09/watch_portland_state_opens_bar.html#incart_river

[FargoBison]

PSU in a walk.

WSU will obliterate Wyo in a few weeks, Bohl's squad is complete trash. KU is probably on par with WSU but the Rabbits were expected to contend.

As for the other game CP beat up on Montana last year and after their big win over NDSU the Griz were in for a bit of a letdown. That was just a minor upset. CP I expected to be a top 25 team this year.

I was impressed with Fordham but again Army is well not so great. I thought the Rams had a solid chance at winning that one.

[BisonTru]

Even as a Rabid Rabbit fan, the biggest surprise was Portland St over Washington St. PSU has been dismal the last several seasons. SDSU vs KU was 63 schollies vs 63 schollies, new coach and new system. This was a game Jacks really needed to play well. And they did... for a half... then showed enough guts (going for it on 4th & 5 in the 4th quarter with a 3 point lead). KU's highlighted botched spike...so Jayhawk football.

I don't believe for a second Kansas has 22 schollies laying around unused. Also, when was the last time you guys beat Kansas on a recruiting battle?

Bottom line, beating any P5 is damn impressive.

I'm not sure if I can say if PSU or SDSUs wins are any more impressive than the other, but PSUs victory is hands down the bigger surprise.

[Kemo]

I'd say Portland State's win was the most impressive being the Washington State is considered a better team than Kansas, but SDSU's first 18 minutes of their game was the most impressive performance in the FCS/FBS match ups, just on a smaller scale.

Jacks were up 31-7 with 12 minutes remaining in the 2nd quarter and were just decimating a P5 team (a bad one, but P5 none the less). Sad that SDSU has a habit of taking their foot off the gas and letting the opposition back into it. Just can't allow an air-raid offense to gain momentum with that much time left to play.

Still very excited about the win, just wish we wouldn't have made it so interesting.

[superman7515]

For me, it was Portland State over Washington State. Not that Washington State is some kind of world beaters at the FBS level, but because Portland State was nowhere on my radar and they were punching well above their weight class.

South Dakota State has been a great team for years, they were due. Not taking anything away from them at all, just saying that if you told me the win over an FBS was by South Dakota State or Portland State, I would have guessed SDSU 100 times out of 100.

A good win for UND, and again not trying to diminish it, but Wyoming wouldn't win the Big Sky, CAA, Ivy, MVFC, SoCon, or Southland... and I wouldn't bet they could win the OVC either. So good win, but if they beat Wyoming in 2017 with a few more years for Bohl, I'd be more impressed.

Fordham over Army... Again, a good win, but I would think this game would be about 50/50 if played 100 times, so not as impressive to me. That's not taking away from Fordham, I just think they're a pretty good team and could go toe-to-toe with Army any day of the week.

Cal Poly over Montana was a great win for the Mustangs, but you're conference opponents, both are Top 25 teams, there's familiarity... It's not like Montana lost to the Jacksonville Dolphins... :(

[BisonFan02]

For me, it was Portland State over Washington State. Not that Washington State is some kind of world beaters at the FBS level, but because Portland State was nowhere on my radar and they were punching well above their weight class.

South Dakota State has been a great team for years, they were due. Not taking anything away from them at all, just saying that if you told me the win over an FBS was by South Dakota State or Portland State, I would have guessed SDSU 100 times out of 100.

A good win for UND, and again not trying to diminish it, but Wyoming wouldn't win the Big Sky, CAA, Ivy, MVFC, SoCon, or Southland... and I wouldn't bet they could win the OVC either. So good win, but if they beat Wyoming in 2017 with a few more years for Bohl, I'd be more impressed.

Fordham over Army... Again, a good win, but I would think this game would be about 50/50 if played 100 times, so not as impressive to me. That's not taking away from Fordham, I just think they're a pretty good team and could go toe-to-toe with Army any day of the week.

Cal Poly over Montana was a great win for the Mustangs, but you're conference opponents, both are Top 25 teams, there's familiarity... It's not like Montana lost to the Jacksonville Dolphins... :(

Add Jacksonville beating Delaware to the poll.

[Ivytalk]

At the risk of sounding like a homer, but if I may put some perspective on the PSU/Wazzu game...

1. Portland State entered the game with the idea nationally that their football program is on life support (not true) and their coach is an interim coach, only coaching this season and never had been a head coach before (this is true).
2. Portland State has not been competitive on the national stage since 2006.
3. Washington State is a member of the Pac-12, a Power 5 conference, and whose coach has said this team is the best since he's been there.
4. Last year Washington State had 700 yards total offense (over 600 yards passing) against Portland State.

This PSU win was totally unexpected, both from a Wazzu perspective and a PSU perspective. Not to diminish any of the other FCS wins over FBS, but Portland State was the only winner not to have received even so much as one vote in any preseason FCS poll (North Dakota did receive at least one vote in all polls), and Top 25 South Dakota State was the only other team to beat a school from one of the Power 5 conferences (Kansas).
Agreed. Homer or not, this struck me as the most impressive FCS win yesterday.

[RootinFerDukes]

If you look at sagarin, which is the best indicator for unranked FBS teams and FCS teams comparatively, the Portland State win over Washington State is the most impressive.

Washington State is ranked 56th.

[ElCid]

If you look at sagarin, which is the best indicator for unranked FBS teams and FCS teams comparatively, the Portland State win over Washington State is the most impressive.

Washington State is ranked 56th.

Why is Sagarin the best? Just curious. I actually find Sagarin fairly inaccurate, especially the first week. I think Massey is actually a bit better, both the composite and the even the actual Massey ranking.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Caption Me! Even citdog can play.

http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.10810749.1441423097!/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/display_960/image.JPG

[The Boogie Down]

I just read Portland State were 31 point underdogs. Is that true?

True indeed. But you had Army beating Fordham by 32 so clearly that was the bigger upset xnodx