Coastal Carolina Joins Sun Belt

[smallcollegefbfan]

http://sunbeltsports.org/splash.aspx?id=splash_30

[PaladinFan]

Here's to Furman sending off Coastal the way they sent off App State and Georgia Southern.

[AshevilleApp2]

Here's to Furman sending off Coastal the way they sent off App State and Georgia Southern.

No smack at Coastal, but I hope it happens. Furman needs to get back to relevance for the good of the SoCon. That would be a great step towards achieving it.

Still glad to see CCU in the same conference with App though. Reasonable drives to away games are a beautiful thing.

[PaladinFan]

No smack at Coastal, but I hope it happens. Furman needs to get back to relevance for the good of the SoCon. That would be a great step towards achieving it.

Still glad to see CCU in the same conference with App though. Reasonable drives to away games are a beautiful thing.

Hey, as long as Coastal is having press conferences about what they are doing next year, and not focused on the hungry team waiting for them on Saturday, I'm not complaining.

[AshevilleApp2]

Hey, as long as Coastal is having press conferences about what they are doing next year, and not focused on the hungry team waiting for them on Saturday, I'm not complaining.

Y'all are due!

[Nova09]

What does this mean for Big South? Do they need special arrangement to keep autobid? Does SoCon want any of their teams (fb only)? Does Monmouth have anywhere else to go? Is Liberty going to just keep pumping more and more money in to try to attract a suitor?

[PaladinFan]

What does this mean for Big South? Do they need special arrangement to keep autobid? Does SoCon want any of their teams (fb only)? Does Monmouth have anywhere else to go? Is Liberty going to just keep pumping more and more money in to try to attract a suitor?

I contemplated that question. The Big South loses their best football program. Kennesaw State and Monmouth join, but there's an open question as to the long term viability.

Additionally, now that the SunBelt has selected Coastal Carolina, what does that mean for a lot of the "rumored-but-unmoved" FCS teams? If the SunBelt is closed for expansion, does the SoCon have any interest in picking off one of these other institutions whose FBS aspirations may be dashed.

[Sycamore62]

I contemplated that question. The Big South loses their best football program. Kennesaw State and Monmouth join, but there's an open question as to the long term viability.

Additionally, now that the SunBelt has selected Coastal Carolina, what does that mean for a lot of the "rumored-but-unmoved" FCS teams? If the SunBelt is closed for expansion, does the SoCon have any interest in picking off one of these other institutions whose FBS aspirations may be dashed.

Or does this mean they will just have to wait for a couple years till the P5 G5 split.

[melloware13]

Big South has enough teams remaining (6) to keep their autobid. For some security, I'd look for the Big South to add Jacksonville and/or Stetson. Otherwise Monmouth might seriously have to start trying to sell to the CAA as the rest of the Big South looks to the SoCon.

[2ram]

the sun belt? they are gonna hate that in another year.

[coastalalum]

Hey, as long as Coastal is having press conferences about what they are doing next year, and not focused on the hungry team waiting for them on Saturday, I'm not complaining.

Coastal could very well lose at Furman on (Any Given) Saturday. But with a guy like Coach Joe Moglia at the helm, it's a mistake to think that he won't have his guys focused and prepared for the task ahead.

[Sycamore62]

Just asking to keep from having to read somewhere else but are they playoff eligible this year or is this year 1 transition?

[BEAR]

What does this mean for Big South? Do they need special arrangement to keep autobid? Does SoCon want any of their teams (fb only)? Does Monmouth have anywhere else to go? Is Liberty going to just keep pumping more and more money in to try to attract a suitor?

I heard that Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word were changing conferences.... xlolx

[jmrepak]

This is our last year of eligibility.

I was at Coach Joe's call-in last night and he didn't say one word about the transition which hide been widely speculated upon at that point. You also noticed his absence from the presser today and football will have the biggest changes of all programs. He is focused on 1 week at a time. Furman always plays us tight, but he will have the boys ready.

[jmrepak]

Also, don't be surprised if you see the Big South try to steal a MEAC team or 2 like SCSU or NCA&T. Not sure if they will be successful in doing so, but those seem like reasonable teams to go after.

[McNeese75]

I heard that Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word were changing conferences.... xlolx

Say it ain't so Bear, Say it ain't So!!! :D

[IBleedYellow]

Welp.

[Catamount87]

Here's to Furman sending off Coastal the way they sent off App State and Georgia Southern.

That'll make three times in history I cheered for the Paladins. ;-)

[superman7515]

Or does this mean they will just have to wait for a couple years till the P5 G5 split.

Not going to happen.

[Seawolf97]

Congrats to Coastal I wish them lots of luck

[Catsfan90]

Any division 2 teams looking to make the move up?

[hebmskebm]

Any division 2 teams looking to make the move up?

North Alabama is champing at the bit to move up, but can't seem to get an invite.

[APaladindad]

Hey, as long as Coastal is having press conferences about what they are doing next year, and not focused on the hungry team waiting for them on Saturday, I'm not complaining.
PF, does this mean that Furman is opening the 2015 season with 3 FBS teams in a row? CCU, VT, UCF. I wonder if any other FCS school has ever opened a football season that way?

[Go...gate]

So much for the Colgate-CCU rematch in Hamilton.....

[Go...gate]

What does this mean for Big South? Do they need special arrangement to keep autobid? Does SoCon want any of their teams (fb only)? Does Monmouth have anywhere else to go? Is Liberty going to just keep pumping more and more money in to try to attract a suitor?

Monmouth could always affiliate with the Patriot League for football only, as Towson once did and as Fordham and Georgetown do now. MU is near the center of the PL footprint.

[superman7515]

PF, does this mean that Furman is opening the 2015 season with 3 FBS teams in a row? CCU, VT, UCF. I wonder if any other FCS school has ever opened a football season that way?

Coastal isn't an FBS team for two more years (2017).

[kdinva]

Big South folks will vote soon as to whether CCU will still host Conf. championships in hoops, outdoor T&F, baseball.......I bet they'll lose those events

[Sandlapper Spike]

I can't imagine they'll keep them unless there is no other hosting option.

[The Yo Show]

Will the conference lose their automatic bid from this?

[BisonBacker]

Any division 2 teams looking to make the move up?
Yeah that's just what the FCS needs xbangx
We already have enough teams in the FCS that really can't afford to be in the FCS. I know that sounds elitist but it is what it is. If that is what the FCS has come to then I'm all for NDSU moving on. Pretty soon were going to be talking about sholarship cuts to make it a fair playing field in the FCS. xconfusedx

[Catsfan90]

Yeah that's just what the FCS needs xbangx
We already have enough teams in the FCS that really can't afford to be in the FCS. I know that sounds elitist but it is what it is. If that is what the FCS has come to then I'm all for NDSU moving on. Pretty soon were going to be talking about sholarship cuts to make it a fair playing field in the FCS. xconfusedx
Wasn't NDSU previously D2, look at them now? A program needs to start somewhere and if they are qualified why not?

[BisonBacker]

Wasn't NDSU previously D2, look at them now? A program needs to start somewhere and if they are qualified why not?

I don't disagree but the qualifier is "If they are Qualified". As we already know there are many schools currently in the FCS that in all reality have no business being in the FCS (football wise anyway). It's no different than moving up to the next level either. I know there are schools at the top who are saying the same thing about FCS programs making that next step and rightfully so. Quite a few schools in the Sunbelt would fit in that category. Bottom line is $ and the ability to compete at the next level.

[walliver]

Big South folks will vote soon as to whether CCU will still host Conf. championships in hoops, outdoor T&F, baseball.......I bet they'll lose those events

I've wondered about this.
When ASU and GSU left the SoCon and moved down to the Belt, it was a surprise to no-one and no-one was offended or upset.
When ODU moved to CUSA, they received a rowdy FU from the CAA (Georgia State received a "who are they and why should we miss them?" exit).
- That being said, the Big South is not the CAA. Their auto-bid is at risk. The NCAA doesn't just require 6 teams, but requires that those teams be together for several years. This means that Kennesaw State really won't count this year or next. I have not read anything about what type of schedule CCU will play in 2016, but my assumption is as a FCS independent. The Big South, however, may need them to play a Big South Schedule in 2016 to keep their auto-bid. In that case, there may be some room for negotiation.

CCU is set to host the basketball tournament. It is kind of late to make alternative arrangements for that type of event. The other championships would be easy to reschedule.

[kdinva]

.....CCU is set to host the basketball tournament. It is kind of late to make alternative arrangements for that type of event....

what about moving it to the Myrtle Beach Conv. Center? 6200 seats and the conference keeps the sponsorship ("visit myrtle beach").

[2ram]

North Alabama is champing at the bit to move up, but can't seem to get an invite.

well the football powerhouse, college of faith, has taken their spot. didn't you know?

[Apphole]

Not going to happen.
Thank you.

The G5 is actually a lot more lucrative than it was when App and GaSo announced. This was a no-brainer for Coastal.

[Sitting Bull]

When ODU moved to CUSA, they received a rowdy FU from the CAA (Georgia State received a "who are they and why should we miss them?" exit).




I don't recall that with ODU. I think everyone understood their opportunity. The amusement - or FU as you call it - was once they announced, they came back a couple months later asking if they could stay in for certain sports. They really didn't want to be flying their teams to El Paso for Volleyball or Soccer games. Can understand that - but that's the downside of joining a conference flung across three time zones.

It was Richmond who left a sour taste for many, not that they pulled out as an all sports member, just the absolute sleazy manner they did. They misrepresented their intentions to the CAA and all the members as the conference was close to solidifying a number of new members (Furman being one).

Mason also got an FU as they bolted 6 months after publically announcing their support to stay. I can't say they are really missed at this point and I'm not sure how well they have done outside the CAA. I never hear about them anymore in the press and their home games have turned into a morgue.

So many predicted a downfall with the moves - it seems to me that the CAA is weathering better than most that left it (UMass, ODU, Mason, Ga State). VCU seems happy in the A10 for now. Being basketball centric, it is a better fit for them.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So many predicted a downfall with the moves - it seems to me that the CAA is weathering better than most that left it (UMass, ODU, Mason, Ga State). VCU seems happy in the A10 for now. Being basketball centric, it is a better fit for them.

Personally I think ODU is making out rather well overall, despite their three-time-zone problem, but certainly a point well taken for UMass, Georgia State, and Mason. If UMass and Georgia State don't get saved by some form of G5/FCS merger or something, I could see them both dropping the sport.

[Smitty]

Will Costal now be the second FBS program to have colored turf?

[Baldy]

I've wondered about this.
When ASU and GSU left the SoCon and moved down to the Belt, it was a surprise to no-one and no-one was offended or upset.
When ODU moved to CUSA, they received a rowdy FU from the CAA (Georgia State received a "who are they and why should we miss them?" exit).
- That being said, the Big South is not the CAA. Their auto-bid is at risk. The NCAA doesn't just require 6 teams, but requires that those teams be together for several years. This means that Kennesaw State really won't count this year or next. I have not read anything about what type of schedule CCU will play in 2016, but my assumption is as a FCS independent. The Big South, however, may need them to play a Big South Schedule in 2016 to keep their auto-bid. In that case, there may be some room for negotiation.

CCU is set to host the basketball tournament. It is kind of late to make alternative arrangements for that type of event. The other championships would be easy to reschedule.
That's news to me. Iamarino was not a happy camper, and hearing the Furman baseball announcers on the radio openly cheering against GS as we won our final SoCon baseball championship was rather comical. xlolx

[OL FU]

That's news to me. Iamarino was not a happy camper, and hearing the Furman baseball announcers on the radio openly cheering against GS as we won our final SoCon baseball championship was rather comical. xlolx

Like Furman fans didn't openly cheer against GSU for the last 20 yearsxsmiley_wix

[tribe_pride]

I don't recall that with ODU. I think everyone understood their opportunity. The amusement - or FU as you call it - was once they announced, they came back a couple months later asking if they could stay in for certain sports. They really didn't want to be flying their teams to El Paso for Volleyball or Soccer games. Can understand that - but that's the downside of joining a conference flung across three time zones.

It was Richmond who left a sour taste for many, not that they pulled out as an all sports member, just the absolute sleazy manner they did. They misrepresented their intentions to the CAA and all the members as the conference was close to solidifying a number of new members (Furman being one).

Mason also got an FU as they bolted 6 months after publically announcing their support to stay. I can't say they are really missed at this point and I'm not sure how well they have done outside the CAA. I never hear about them anymore in the press and their home games have turned into a morgue.

So many predicted a downfall with the moves - it seems to me that the CAA is weathering better than most that left it (UMass, ODU, Mason, Ga State). VCU seems happy in the A10 for now. Being basketball centric, it is a better fit for them.

Seems to me ODU is doing ok. They always wanted FBS and planned it from the beginning. Some long travels but that is life of many conferences now. The FU may have been no team being eligible for conference championships but those were the rules that they voted for so they knew what they were going into when they went there.

Ga. State was never really in the CAA for long anyway so it's tough to count them as CAA. We were just a failed pass through project for both the CAA and Ga. State.

VCU is smart to be where they are as a basketball school and built off of their final four appearance. Will see if Shaka was the key to it or not as he just left for Texas and they now have a new coach.

Mason was never able to build off of their Final Four appearance. Understand the move to a basketball conference but their success was Larrinaga. When he left, the program fell drastically and is now in horrible mode

UMass was just not ready to go FBS (home games several hours away from campus for the first 2(?) years). Just a bad idea. That and they want to be a basketball school (A-10) but want FBS and that is killing their football program because they chose A-10 over football conference and now as an independent very soon, they are not going anywhere.

As you said, Richmond is the one to leave a bad taste in CAA mouths by how they left but it has worked out decently for them. Good A-10 basketball (up and down over there with more ups than downs) and still getting the Yankee/A-10/CAA football advantage.

[Tealblood]

what about moving it to the Myrtle Beach Conv. Center? 6200 seats and the conference keeps the sponsorship ("visit myrtle beach").

the MB chamber are friends of CCU if they want sponsorship from them it stays at CCU

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Seems to me ODU is doing ok. They always wanted FBS and planned it from the beginning. Some long travels but that is life of many conferences now. The FU may have been no team being eligible for conference championships but those were the rules that they voted for so they knew what they were going into when they went there.

Ga. State was never really in the CAA for long anyway so it's tough to count them as CAA. We were just a failed pass through project for both the CAA and Ga. State.

VCU is smart to be where they are as a basketball school and built off of their final four appearance. Will see if Shaka was the key to it or not as he just left for Texas and they now have a new coach.

Mason was never able to build off of their Final Four appearance. Understand the move to a basketball conference but their success was Larrinaga. When he left, the program fell drastically and is now in horrible mode

UMass was just not ready to go FBS (home games several hours away from campus for the first 2(?) years). Just a bad idea. That and they want to be a basketball school (A-10) but want FBS and that is killing their football program because they chose A-10 over football conference and now as an independent very soon, they are not going anywhere.

As you said, Richmond is the one to leave a bad taste in CAA mouths by how they left but it has worked out decently for them. Good A-10 basketball (up and down over there with more ups than downs) and still getting the Yankee/A-10/CAA football advantage.

VCU will be fine without Smart. Carter started to build up the Rams in the early 2000's ( they beat Duke in the tournament) and Smart pushed them to another level. The A10 is a good enough conference where you can sustain success for a long period of time.

I still think UMass is the most likely candidate to replace Cincinnati in the AAC if the Bearcats bolt for the Big 12.

[zilla]

Here's to Furman sending off Coastal the way they sent off App State and Georgia Southern.

I'm really worried about that happening...seriously.

The past few years have been too close for comfort. One of these days, the Paladins are going to catch the breaks that we've benefited from in this series.

The game's in Greenville and - for a change - you guys will be 100% healthy. I expect your guys to come out amped Saturday night.

Should be a good game.

[citdog]

Glad to see usc-coastal leaving. They can go play other places that are good if you are looking to contract scabies.

[AshevilleApp2]

Any division 2 teams looking to make the move up?

Not sure if they are interested, but I'd think Valdosta State would be a likely candidate.

[Sitting Bull]

Personally I think ODU is making out rather well overall, despite their three-time-zone problem, but certainly a point well taken for UMass, Georgia State, and Mason. If UMass and Georgia State don't get saved by some form of G5/FCS merger or something, I could see them both dropping the sport.

I'm not sure yet on ODU, one way or the other. I think this still needs to play out.

ODU has lost some exposure and interest in Virginia, particularly basketball which has always been their premier sport - and this primarily because the average college fan in Virginia knows little of the other teams in CUSA - and has little interest in them. Many times the games are in different time zones, their basketball tournament in Birmingham got no coverage - and there is little if any TV exposure in Virginia for CUSA games. CAA games, football and basketball, are on TV often in Virginia and overall the conference gets very good coverage in the State.

ODU took the opening that was available to them - but Norfolk and Virginia are Atlantic Coast centric. I think the best eventual option for ODU would be the A10 for basketball (they would have certainly joined there had football not been an issue) or the AAC.

ODU's biggest threat are potential professional sports teams in Norfolk, which are really non existent today. The Norfolk Metro is one of the largest - if not the largest - metro areas in the U.S. without a pro sports team. If they were to ever get an NBA or NFL franchise, the interest I think for ODU would shrink significantly. Right now, ODU is the only game in town, in an area with over 1.5M sports minded fans.

They have built a passionate fanbase over the years - though even they stay home if the team doesn't win - as in the first two years of CUSA mens basketball. There were several games where you could almost count the fans.

And on some history, ODU has moved on and then back again before. Back in the early 80s, they moved to the Sun Belt (sound familiar) - which I think eventually became the Metro. The footprint was smaller than the CUSA - only to Louisiana I think - and did not include football. After a number of years, ODU requested entry into the CAA as they realized that the fanbase just wasn't as attracted to teams in the deep South as opposed to the seaboard. Virginia just doesn't look that direction too far - the Carolinas, yes - certainly not the Gulf Coast or Texas.

[kdinva]

CCU's first 1-A home and home set of games? UMass.

https://twitter.com/UMassFootball/status/677506408837943296/photo/1

[Lehigh Football Nation]

CCU's first 1-A home and home set of games? UMass.

https://twitter.com/UMassFootball/status/677506408837943296/photo/1

No threat of sellouts here.

[BisonFan02]

CCU's first 1-A home and home set of games? UMass.

https://twitter.com/UMassFootball/status/677506408837943296/photo/1

*golf clap*

[SENOREIDA]

No threat of sellouts here.
You might be wrong on that statement! Yes, UMass is not a marque game. We have a ton of alumni from the Northeast especially Massachusetts. We also have a huge snowbird population in Myrtle Beach, might gauge some interest from local retirees wanting to see their old alma mater/local team play. It will be interesting to see the turnout, but it isn't a bad contract.

[Cocky]

No threat of sellouts here.
It will be a sellout.

[jsnow84]

Maybe it will be a record crowd, you know, over 10K in attendance. FBS ready. :)

[MacThor]

How will they ever pad the FCS Selection show to fill an hour?

[tribefan40]

Why will CCU not be successful? The answer is simple. Not enough crowd noise.

[katstrapper]

I heard that Houston Baptist and Incarnate Word were changing conferences.... xlolx

I wish this would happen.

I just don't understand FCS programs wanting to move up to FBS, especially the Sunbelch Conference. I would much rather to at least have the chance to play for a national championship every year. If you are not Power 5, you will NEVER play for a national title.

[unknown3]

I wish this would happen.

I just don't understand FCS programs wanting to move up to FBS, especially the Sunbelch Conference. I would much rather to at least have the chance to play for a national championship every year. If you are not Power 5, you will NEVER play for a national title.

Because at the end of the day, some of you are blinded by the fact that, as irrelevant as you think the Sunbelt is, in the grand scheme of things, FCS football is even less relevant. AAC teams aren't P5 nor are CUSA teams, Houston is about to play Florida State in the Peach Bowl....surely they'd give that up for a shot to be able to say they won a championship in FCS, right? lol...pretty sure we all know the answer to that. And even in the P5, prior to last year, with the BCS system the SEC champ and whatever champ from the Big 12, Pac 12, Big 10 or ACC were pretty much guaranteed those two spots every year. The rest of them would no way in hell choose the FCS playoffs over the BCS bowls either.

There is still a pecking order and in no part of it is FCS > an FBS conference. Kinda like how if a Sunbelt school wanted any coach of any team on here, with a little money, that coach is moving on. That's just the way it is.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Because at the end of the day, some of you are blinded by the fact that, as irrelevant as you think the Sunbelt is, in the grand scheme of things, we all don't matter to Michigan.

FIFY

[BisonFan02]

FIFY

I could put together a list of 20 FCS/G5 schools....and give that list to a fan of a P5 school....their instructions are to pick which ones are FBS or FCS (or just which ones are DI or DII....depending on their level of football retardation). I can just about guarantee they couldn't do it.

[BEAR]

I wish this would happen.

I just don't understand FCS programs wanting to move up to FBS, especially the Sunbelch Conference. I would much rather to at least have the chance to play for a national championship every year. If you are not Power 5, you will NEVER play for a national title.

That's true but with most southern FCS school budgets outside of the SEC its a tough proposition to play in a higher conference than the Sunbelch. I mean in 20 or 30 years if the Sunbelch is around and UCA has the funds, support, and program to move to it then it's the most logical move. LIke ASU did.

Here's their probably best stadium upgrade:

http://assets.inarkansas.com/53366/centennial-bank-stadium-expansion-plans.jpg

[clenz]

Attendance numbers...

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/25418087/college-football-attendance-drops-for-fifth-straight-year-but-at-slower-rate
School - Attendance - Chance from last year


Colorado State
24,917
-6%


Hawaii
23,433
-15%


Texas-El Paso
23,212
-18%


Texas-San Antonio
23,008
-17%


Arkansas State
23,007
-7%


Tulane
22,930
-7%


New Mexico
22,562
+3%


Nevada
22,170
-7%


Louisiana-Lafayette
21,596
-16%


Appalachian State
21,459
-7%


Utah State
21,362
+4%


Ohio
21,323
+4%


SMU
21,043
+2%


Louisiana Tech
20,977
+5%


Toledo
20,842
+7%


Georgia Southern
20,780
-2%


Old Dominion
20,118
0%


Tulsa
19,622
Less than +1%


Bowling Green
19,608
+29%


Western Michigan
19,441
+24%


Troy
19,399
+16%


UNLV
19,371
+24%


Rice
19,339
+4%


Buffalo
18,457
-10%


Texas State
18,166
-12%


Akron
18,098
+97%


Wyoming
18,060
-8%


Western Kentucky
17,960
+10%


Florida Atlantic
17,617
+25%


New Mexico State
17,486
+43%


Middle Tennessee
17,210
-1%


South Alabama
16,039
-8%


Miami (Ohio)
15,707
-1%


Central Michigan
15,672
-4%


Florida International
15,381
+29%


San Jose State
15,312
+2%


Charlotte
14,618
+10%


Northern Illinois
13,942
+3%


North Texas
13,631
-29%


Kent State
12,561
-7%


Louisiana-Monroe
11,732
-35%


Idaho
11,653
-10%


UMass
11,124
-31%


Georgia State
10,347
-31%


Ball State
7,974
-15%


Eastern Michigan
4,897
-67%




Those teams are nothing but FCS schools with one letter different in their subdivision. Hell, a large number of them were FCS less than 5-8 years ago.

99% of your typical FBS fan couldn't tell you if 95% of those teams were FBS, FBS or D2

[BEAR]

Are those ticket sales or actual attendance. I've been to a couple of ASU games and I can tell you they don't average 23k.

[clenz]

Are those ticket sales or actual attendance. I've been to a couple of ASU games and I can tell you they don't average 23k.
That's reported attendance...

So but those numbers by 50-70% for actual attendance

[BEAR]

That's reported attendance...

So but those numbers by 50-70% for actual attendance

Yep. Both games I went to probably had 10k there at best. Even the championship game where they were undefeated had at most 13k.

[Laker]

Glad to see that MSU-Mankato outdrew Eastern Michigan.

[Cocky]

troys numbers are fiction, too. EMU has more people in the seats than troy. As much crap as UAB has taken about attendance, their people at the game attendance would fall only behind UAT, Auburn and JSU in Alabama.

[knucklehead]

The most frustrating part to Liberty fans is that most if not all agree that LU would do Much better. I think CCU accepting this bid when not prepared is a huge mistake.

[Cocky]

The SB was out of options other than LU.

[knucklehead]

The SB was out of options other than LU.

Completely agree. I hear LU was closer than most think on votes but those apposed were not moving. So, Karl drove on to the last hope he had, played snake oil salesman, and CCU bought.

[rokamortis]

I come here every few days for a good laugh from the haters and Liberty fans.

Our admin made a decision they felt was best for us, why some of you continue to even care about it is beyond me. This was a good option for us since we couldn't get an invite to the SoCon or CAA. The Big South is an unstable conference held together by affiliate members and some programs that want to defund scholarships. . Maybe it wouldn't be in such bad shape if Liberty wasn't so vocal about being ready to jump ship at first offer.

So we'll worry about Coastal and you all should just worry about your programs.

[citdog]

41-38

[rokamortis]

41-38

https://thegrio.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/citadel-kkk-photos.jpg?w=640

[knucklehead]

I'd say new Low, but not for a CCU fan.

I'm just saying I think they should have thought thru this more that's all. Congrats.

[rokamortis]

I'd say new Low, but not for a CCU fan.

I didn't realize that you are Citdog's mommy. I'm sure he can handle it.

[citdog]

I didn't realize that you are Citdog's mommy. I'm sure he can handle it.

My Mother went to one of the GOOD schools in South Carolina. Your diploma mill lost to one of the OTHER good schools in The Palmetto State 41-38 the last time they took the field.

[MTfan4life]

So we'll worry about Coastal and you all should just worry about your programs.

If everyone just worried about their own programs, sites like this wouldn't exist. If you don't want non Coastal's talking about Coastal, you might as well just stick to ChantFans.net or whatever is your site. People here are going to laugh about the move, because it honestly is easy to laugh at. Growing up being a fan of the FCS, you get used to the idea that your team has a chance to play for a championship each season. Sure national recognition is fun, but for most teams that move up, that's about all they can hope for. Getting to play on ESPN on December 23rd in the First National Bank Seesaw Bowl against North Texas is about the best you're going to get. Or the fun of having a conference game played in Moscow, Idaho. It makes zero sense to bitch about AGS people criticizing the move. Most of the people on here are ones who love the FCS for what it is and what it offers and the idea that you have a good chance each season at being relevant in your level of football. Sure, one out of every two or three dozen teams is a Boise State, but for most teams, it's just a life sentence of mediocrity and meaningless games.

It's not like it's a bunch of butthurt haters criticizing the decision. At least from the way I see things, it's more of a feeling of disappointment. In a world, where the P5 is separating itself from the rest, >90% of the G5 teams seem entirely irrelevant to an FCS fan's point of view. Disappointed in the sense that the FCS loses another solid team and some joke of a football conference gains the team.

I'm kind of just jumping around, but for me, as a football fan, the joy of watching your team compete with the best teams at that level is what makes it all great. At the FBS, that rarely gets to happen. App state had a great season. Their reward? A bowl game in Montgomery, AL against 8-4 Ohio. I remember when Marshall was really good with Chad Pennington. They had one season where they went undefeated and played in the Little Caesar's Pizza Bowl against Brigham Young. Imagine watching what you thought was the best team your school has ever produced, but you never get to see them play anyone good. Like the 87 Holy Cross or every season for an Ivy champion. It'd be awful. When my team's having a great year, I want to see how they do against the best teams. That's what makes the FCS great, and that's a good reason why most of us think this is a rough decision. There's no problem in you defending what your school chose to do, but it's quite a reach to assume all of us on here is just going to pat Coastal on the back for the move, especially considering all of the precedent of previous school's continued results.

[jsnow84]

If everyone just worried about their own programs, sites like this wouldn't exist. If you don't want non Coastal's talking about Coastal, you might as well just stick to ChantFans.net or whatever is your site. People here are going to laugh about the move, because it honestly is easy to laugh at. Growing up being a fan of the FCS, you get used to the idea that your team has a chance to play for a championship each season. Sure national recognition is fun, but for most teams that move up, that's about all they can hope for. Getting to play on ESPN on December 23rd in the First National Bank Seesaw Bowl against North Texas is about the best you're going to get. Or the fun of having a conference game played in Moscow, Idaho. It makes zero sense to bitch about AGS people criticizing the move. Most of the people on here are ones who love the FCS for what it is and what it offers and the idea that you have a good chance each season at being relevant in your level of football. Sure, one out of every two or three dozen teams is a Boise State, but for most teams, it's just a life sentence of mediocrity and meaningless games.

It's not like it's a bunch of butthurt haters criticizing the decision. At least from the way I see things, it's more of a feeling of disappointment. In a world, where the P5 is separating itself from the rest, >90% of the G5 teams seem entirely irrelevant to an FCS fan's point of view. Disappointed in the sense that the FCS loses another solid team and some joke of a football conference gains the team.

I'm kind of just jumping around, but for me, as a football fan, the joy of watching your team compete with the best teams at that level is what makes it all great. At the FBS, that rarely gets to happen. App state had a great season. Their reward? A bowl game in Montgomery, AL against 8-4 Ohio. I remember when Marshall was really good with Chad Pennington. They had one season where they went undefeated and played in the Little Caesar's Pizza Bowl against Brigham Young. Imagine watching what you thought was the best team your school has ever produced, but you never get to see them play anyone good. Like the 87 Holy Cross or every season for an Ivy champion. It'd be awful. When my team's having a great year, I want to see how they do against the best teams. That's what makes the FCS great, and that's a good reason why most of us think this is a rough decision. There's no problem in you defending what your school chose to do, but it's quite a reach to assume all of us on here is just going to pat Coastal on the back for the move, especially considering all of the precedent of previous school's continued results.

Great post. CCU will be back in the FCS in 10 years or less, this is a bad move for them. FCS playoffs are much better than a low-level FBS Toilet Bowl in Squirrel Nuts, Arkansas.
FBS ready.......................... laughable.

[BisonFan02]

Great post. CCU will be back in the FCS in 10 years or less, this is a bad move for them. FCS playoffs are much better than a low-level FBS Toilet Bowl in Squirrel Nuts, Arkansas.
FBS ready.......................... laughable.

No they won't......like Idaho, I think they would drop football before swallowing their pride and move down.

[CasualFan]

It won't be anytime soon, but one day there will be an FBS playoff system in which all conference champions get an invite. I'm hoping within the next 20 years, but I'm optimistic. Until then, I agree that the best CCU can hope for is a no-name bowl. I think the FBS playoffs will have to expand to be like the FCS system for it to happen. If the FCS is any indicator, it promotes parity. The other conferences that have been shut out will get better. The thing is, will the P5 break away before the playoffs expand that much? I don't know. I hope not.

[BisonFan02]

It won't be anytime soon, but one day there will be an FBS playoff system in which all conference champions get an invite. I'm hoping within the next 20 years, but I'm optimistic. Until then, I agree that the best CCU can hope for is a no-name bowl. I think the FBS playoffs will have to expand to be like the FCS system for it to happen. If the FCS is any indicator, it promotes parity. The other conferences that have been shut out will get better. The thing is, will the P5 break away before the playoffs expand that much? I don't know. I hope not.

Not happening...The P5 isn't sharing that money....You know what the G5 "playoffs" will be called?...the FCS playoffs.

[clenz]

Not happening...The P5 isn't sharing that money....You know what the G5 "playoffs" will be called?...the FCS playoffs.

This


Get used to a new system of being controlled by money. The FCS is willing to let the little guys in. The FBS? Never going to happen

[centennial]

This


Get used to a new system of being controlled by money. The FCS is willing to let the little guys in. The FBS? Never going to happen
G5 is just going to ride the P5 wave. If the P5 decide to go on their own they will look at a lot of lawsuit. Breadcrumbs go to G5, leftover scraps to FCS, P5 gets even stronger. Also nothing is changing till 2024.

[Bisonwinagn]

It won't be anytime soon, but one day there will be an FBS playoff system in which all conference champions get an invite. I'm hoping within the next 20 years, but I'm optimistic. Until then, I agree that the best CCU can hope for is a no-name bowl. I think the FBS playoffs will have to expand to be like the FCS system for it to happen. If the FCS is any indicator, it promotes parity. The other conferences that have been shut out will get better. The thing is, will the P5 break away before the playoffs expand that much? I don't know. I hope not.

There is no chance this happens. They might get to an 8 team playoff with the P5 champions and 3 wildcards. But it will never go beyond that because coaches and AD's won't allow the teams to play that many games due to the risk of injury. Like it or not it's a minor league system for the NFL and that is the main focus of the P5 along with making sure they keep all the money. The G5 are no more relevant than the FCS and it is more likely they combine soon and create a new playoff.

[BisonFan02]

This


Get used to a new system of being controlled by money. The NCAA is willing to let the little guys in. The FBS? Never going to happen

Slight FIFY....The NCAA is going to be inclusive (see Pioneer autobid). The BCS crowd just needs to make sure they don't make decisions to hurt them in March...otherwise, the almighty dollar is going to win out and they want the pie to be sliced as few times as possible.

[centennial]

There is no chance this happens. They might get to an 8 team playoff with the P5 champions and 3 wildcards. But it will never go beyond that because coaches and AD's won't allow the teams to play that many games due to the risk of injury. Like it or not it's a minor league system for the NFL and that is the main focus of the P5 along with making sure they keep all the money. The G5 are no more relevant than the FCS and it is more likely they combine soon and create a new playoff.
G5 will not combine with the FCS. No way. That is the FCS dream.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Not happening...The P5 isn't sharing that money....You know what the G5 "playoffs" will be called?...the FCS playoffs.

I agree.

[grizband]

Why will CCU not be successful? The answer is simple. Not enough crowd noise.
Not cold enough, either...

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This


Get used to a new system of being controlled by money. The FCS is willing to let the little guys in. The FBS? Never going to happen


Slight FIFY....The NCAA is going to be inclusive (see Pioneer autobid). The BCS crowd just needs to make sure they don't make decisions to hurt them in March...otherwise, the almighty dollar is going to win out and they want the pie to be sliced as few times as possible.

The NEC and Big South made a passionate plea to the NCAA years ago that they met all the requirements for an autobid and should not be denied the right to be in the playoffs, and FCS and the NCAA accepted their argument and the playoffs expanded. Hard to think that a similar thing would happen for the CFP, which has no NCAA involvement and involves the sharing of money.

[polsongrizz]

I don't disagree but the qualifier is "If they are Qualified". As we already know there are many schools currently in the FCS that in all reality have no business being in the FCS (football wise anyway). It's no different than moving up to the next level either. I know there are schools at the top who are saying the same thing about FCS programs making that next step and rightfully so. Quite a few schools in the Sunbelt would fit in that category. Bottom line is $ and the ability to compete at the next level.
There are also numerous teams in the fbs that do not belong.

[PAllen]

The NEC and Big South made a passionate plea to the NCAA years ago that they met all the requirements for an autobid and should not be denied the right to be in the playoffs, and FCS and the NCAA accepted their argument and the playoffs expanded. Hard to think that a similar thing would happen for the CFP, which has no NCAA involvement and involves the sharing of money.

The key will be which state has all of it's FBS schools in G-5 conferences, and football is important at those schools. Utah used to be the answer, and Sen. Hatch is the reason that the non-BCS got that guarantee into a BCS bowl. Now Utah is in a P-5 conference, so does Idaho's representation on the hill have enough clout to force the issue with the playoffs? Anybody else fit the criteria? The NCAA isn't going to be the one to force G-5 autobids into the FBS playoff, it will be political pressure from Capitol Hill.

[Casey_Orourke]

The key will be which state has all of it's FBS schools in G-5 conferences, and football is important at those schools. Utah used to be the answer, and Sen. Hatch is the reason that the non-BCS got that guarantee into a BCS bowl. Now Utah is in a P-5 conference, so does Idaho's representation on the hill have enough clout to force the issue with the playoffs? Anybody else fit the criteria? The NCAA isn't going to be the one to force G-5 autobids into the FBS playoff, it will be political pressure from Capitol Hill.

Idaho?????

Idaho's chances of getting into the CFP playoffs border somewhere between "nil and none." If anything, they are a heartbeat from having to choose between ditching football entirely or accept that they have to drop down to the next level and come crawling to the Big Sky (where all their other programs currently compete) and beg for admission.

[Lehigh'98]

Idaho?????

Idaho's chances of getting into the CFP playoffs border somewhere between "nil and none." If anything, they are a heartbeat from having to choose between ditching football entirely or accept that they have to drop down to the next level and come crawling to the Big Sky (where all their other programs currently compete) and beg for admission.

I think he meant Boise St as being the main school.

[Panther88]

I seriously wonder why so many recent former division-I "fcs" schools have bolted for FBS stardom? Exposure? $$$$$? Notoriety? Viability? lol

Congrats on your move, CCU. Hope it turns out well for you guys.

[dakotadan]

He meant the state of Idaho with two FBS schools, neither of which is in a P5 conference.

He is referring to the fact the NCAA does not control the FBS playoff. So it will likely require political pressure to get the G5 an autobid or any benefits in an expanded playoff. Just like the Utah representatives did to get the G5 a scrap in the BCS. But the state of Utah now has a P5 school. Hence the reference to which states only have G5 schools.

[catamount man]

Coastal Carolina to play at UCLA in 2023. http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/12/coastal-carolina-play-ucla-2023/

[kdinva]

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article43037097.html

[Panther88]

Wooo hooooo oak treeeeees?????? :(

Why AppSt, GaSo, CCU, Boise St, Marshall, TxSt, et al? Why? :(

[Casey_Orourke]

That I can see.

[walliver]

Some moves make sense.
Marshall was in FBS in the past, and returning wasn't a big deal.
Appy was bringing in 30K fans a week.
MTSU is a very large university.
Boise has been successful.

CCU is taking a Field of Dreams approach. A massive expansion of a stadium that rarely sells out. GaSo and Appy may bring a good number of visiting fans, but the rest of the Belt won't. Games against Troy, Georgia State, and South Alabama won't generate much more local/student interest than Liberty, Kennesaw and Charleston Southern. Clemson and Carolina fans aren't going to change allegiance to the Chants. It is a big risk. Maybe they have a plan.

This article is 18 months old, but the issues haven't changed.
http://www.thestate.com/sports/article13872272.html

[Cocky]

Some moves make sense.
Marshall was in FBS in the past, and returning wasn't a big deal.
Appy was bringing in 30K fans a week.
MTSU is a very large university.
Boise has been successful.

CCU is taking a Field of Dreams approach. A massive expansion of a stadium that rarely sells out. GaSo and Appy may bring a good number of visiting fans, but the rest of the Belt won't. Games against Troy, Georgia State, and South Alabama won't generate much more local/student interest than Liberty, Kennesaw and Charleston Southern. Clemson and Carolina fans aren't going to change allegiance to the Chants. It is a big risk. Maybe they have a plan.

This article is 18 months old, but the issues haven't changed.
http://www.thestate.com/sports/article13872272.html

App average is 20K this year.

[Nor Eastern]

App average is 20K this year. Like 21.3k or something yeh. But App had two Thursday games and a Saturday home game after Thanksgiving. That factored into it for sure.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This tells you all you need to know.

Scoring Summary (Final)
2015 Appalachian State Football
UL Lafayette vs Appalachian State (Nov 28, 2015 at Boone, N.C.)UL Lafayette (4-7,3-4) vs. Appalachian State (9-2,6-1)
Date: Nov 28, 2015 • Site: Boone, N.C. • Stadium: Kidd Brewer Stadium • Attendance: 16124


Scoring Summary (Final)
2012 Appalachian State Football
Furman vs #12 Appalachian State (Nov 10, 2012 at Boone, N.C.)
Furman (3-7,2-5) vs. Appalachian State (8-3,6-2)Date: Nov 10, 2012 • Site: Boone, N.C. • Stadium: Kidd Brewer • Attendance: 28986

[AshevilleApp2]

This tells you all you need to know.

Scoring Summary (Final)
2015 Appalachian State Football
UL Lafayette vs Appalachian State (Nov 28, 2015 at Boone, N.C.)UL Lafayette (4-7,3-4) vs. Appalachian State (9-2,6-1)
Date: Nov 28, 2015 • Site: Boone, N.C. • Stadium: Kidd Brewer Stadium • Attendance: 16124


Scoring Summary (Final)
2012 Appalachian State Football
Furman vs #12 Appalachian State (Nov 10, 2012 at Boone, N.C.)
Furman (3-7,2-5) vs. Appalachian State (8-3,6-2)Date: Nov 10, 2012 • Site: Boone, N.C. • Stadium: Kidd Brewer • Attendance: 28986



Yup, it does. You are a partisan hack.

Furman was a traditional rival, who I miss playing every year. And the game was played while school was in session.

ULF was the Saturday after Thanksgiving, and a team most folks aren't familiar with. What were the playoff attendance numbers on November 28? Apples to Apples son.

[Nor Eastern]

Nah Lehigh, the only thing I need or want to know is a comparison of attendance of App's game the Saturday after Thanksgiving game against any of the FCS playoff games that day.

[Nor Eastern]

LoL, Found the post.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?178595-Round-1-Attendance/page3


14575 SDSU @ Montana
7062 EIU @ UNI
6751 The Citadel @ CCU
4888 Fordham @ Chattanooga
4395 Duquesne @ W&M
3303 Colgate @ UNH
3098 SUU @ SHSU
997 WIU @ Dayton



And then we have App with 16124 for a "meaningless" non-playoff game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yup, it does. You are a partisan hack.

Furman was a traditional rival, who I miss playing every year. And the game was played while school was in session.

ULF was the Saturday after Thanksgiving, and a team most folks aren't familiar with. What were the playoff attendance numbers on November 28? Apples to Apples son.

Both were season finales at home against conference opponents with postseason positioning on the line. Records of the teams were comparable. Both were on a Saturday. People who wanted to catch that game could have made arrangements back in August to attend.

The Thanksgiving break thing is just an excuse.

[Nor Eastern]

You know fully well that thanksgiving weekend is the pits for games, as I proved context in the post above. App's biggest game this year was on a Thursday night rather than Saturday and it still did really well. 24,121 came to Boone on a Thursday night to watch them pound GaSo. Then 9 days later 26,130 showed up to watch App/Troy. If GaSo had been on a Saturday it'd have been over 30k

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You know fully well that thanksgiving weekend is the pits for games, as I proved context in the post above. App's biggest game this year was on a Thursday night rather than Saturday and it still did really well. 24,121 came to Boone on a Thursday night to watch them pound GaSo.

Props for that, however in 2013 23,901 watched App and Georgia Southern in Boone at the FCS level.

This FCS game on Thanksgiving weekend did OK:

http://www.gsutigers.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=3138

[AshevilleApp2]

Both were season finales at home against conference opponents with postseason positioning on the line. Records of the teams were comparable. Both were on a Saturday. People who wanted to catch that game could have made arrangements back in August to attend.

The Thanksgiving break thing is just an excuse.

Bullcrap son. And you know it, unless you are a newbie to FCS/G5.

[AshevilleApp2]

Props for that, however in 2013 23,901 watched App and Georgia Southern in Boone at the FCS level.

This FCS game on Thanksgiving weekend did OK:

http://www.gsutigers.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=3138

A) On a Saturday.

B) Glad to see you hitching your attendance horses to the HBCU schools. They don't get much respect here otherwise.

[jacksfan29]

Props for that, however in 2013 23,901 watched App and Georgia Southern in Boone at the FCS level.

This FCS game on Thanksgiving weekend did OK:

http://www.gsutigers.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=3138

Southern v Grambling is your comparison? Look up the history. And prior to you compare a Saturday after Thanksgiving with a Nov 10 game against an old traditional rival? The problem your having is that anyone paying attention can see that your not being honest. Make your argument without the games and most people will be far more inclined to believe/agree with you.

[Nor Eastern]

Props for that, however in 2013 23,901 watched App and Georgia Southern in Boone at the FCS level.

This FCS game on Thanksgiving weekend did OK:

http://www.gsutigers.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=3138



Yeh. Saturday game vs. Thursday game. It's hard for Alumni to get up the mtn on a work night with work the next day. And the game still had more.

[rokamortis]

Props for that, however in 2013 23,901 watched App and Georgia Southern in Boone at the FCS level.

This FCS game on Thanksgiving weekend did OK:

http://www.gsutigers.com/boxscore.aspx?path=football&id=3138

I'm surprised you aren't advocating to kill the playoffs and have a bowl system for FCS since the Celebration bowl had over 35k in attendance and 1.89 million viewers.

[IBleedYellow]

Why does anyone pay attention to LFN's posts?

He's a troll - and I honestly couldn't see his endgame before I blocked him permanently.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I really enjoyed Temple's time in the MAC for football! I think the conference has a great identity, purpose and history. It's one of the more stable conferences in the country. There's a perfect blend of schools who are comfortable in their own skin. Academically it's pretty strong imo. Miami(OH) and Buffalo are legit national universities. Ohio, CMU, Akron and Toledo have great reputations as well. The conference has a strong alumni presence in Indianapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago and Indianapolis. There's a lot of people with Big 10/MAC or vice versa undergrad and graduate degrees in that part of the country, or so I've been told.

ESPN also loves the league and always portrays it in a fun loving sort of way. That equity as really helped the league over the last 10 years. While the weekday games have hurt attendance there's no doubt it has widen its appeal. The average joe at the end of the bar knows about about weekday MAC games now.....

Had the AAC never come about I would have been perfectly content with Temple's MAC/A10 setup. With that said, very few people in Philly cared about MAC football.

[walliver]

I really enjoyed Temple's time in the MAC for football! I think the conference has a great identity, purpose and history. It's one of the more stable conferences in the country. There's a perfect blend of schools who are comfortable in their own skin. Academically it's pretty strong imo. Miami(OH) and Buffalo are legit national universities. Ohio, CMU, Akron and Toledo have great reputations as well. The conference has a strong alumni presence in Indianapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago and Indianapolis. There's a lot of people with Big 10/MAC or vice versa undergrad and graduate degrees in that part of the country, or so I've been told.

ESPN also loves the league and always portrays it in a fun loving sort of way. That equity as really helped the league over the last 10 years. While the weekday games have hurt attendance there's no doubt it has widen its appeal. The average joe at the end of the bar knows about about weekday MAC games now.....

Had the AAC never come about I would have been perfectly content with Temple's MAC/A10 setup. With that said, very few people in Philly cared about MAC football.

Do people in Philly care about any football that isn't the Eagles?

[dgtw]

I also like the MAC. A conference with no delusions of grandeur. A group of schools relatively close to each other that have mostly been together forever. They seem willing to let outsiders hang out for a while until they find a home more to their liking.

[Hammerhead]

And why do they play games on weeknights? Because they are chasing more TV revenue and the TV networks need something to fill their programming schedule. I know many Bison fans would rather stick to state-wide TV coverage and enjoy Saturday tailgating than play during the week when many out-of-towners might not even be able to get to the game on time.



Like 21.3k or something yeh. But App had two Thursday games and a Saturday home game after Thanksgiving. That factored into it for sure.

[Baldy]

This tells you all you need to know.

Scoring Summary (Final)
2015 Appalachian State Football
UL Lafayette vs Appalachian State (Nov 28, 2015 at Boone, N.C.)UL Lafayette (4-7,3-4) vs. Appalachian State (9-2,6-1)
Date: Nov 28, 2015 • Site: Boone, N.C. • Stadium: Kidd Brewer Stadium • Attendance: 16124


Scoring Summary (Final)
2012 Appalachian State Football
Furman vs #12 Appalachian State (Nov 10, 2012 at Boone, N.C.)
Furman (3-7,2-5) vs. Appalachian State (8-3,6-2)Date: Nov 10, 2012 • Site: Boone, N.C. • Stadium: Kidd Brewer • Attendance: 28986



xlmaox

Another LFN comparison FAIL.xcoffeex

EDIT:
Apples to Apples comparison: Dec. 1, 2012 playoff game vs. Illinois State. Attendance: 16,719. http://www.vesperala.com/style_emoticons/default/emo-coffee.gif

[AshevilleApp2]

xlmaox

Another LFN comparison FAIL.xcoffeex

EDIT:
Apples to Apples comparison: Dec. 1, 2012 playoff game vs. Illinois State. Attendance: 16,719. xcoffeex

And that was a 2nd round game, with the students back from Thanksgiving break.

[Nor Eastern]

And why do they play games on weeknights? Because they are chasing more TV revenue and the TV networks need something to fill their programming schedule. I know many Bison fans would rather stick to state-wide TV coverage and enjoy Saturday tailgating than play during the week when many out-of-towners might not even be able to get to the game on time.




Eh, at least the SunBelt only has Thursday games and it's supposed to be only one Thursday game per team. But App was drew the short straw and got two this year, 14 days apart, against the #1 and #3 team in the conference. I'm not a fan of Thursday games as it goes against NFL and they're on ESPNU. But I'm not emperor of the world, so I'll take what I get.

I will say, that I went to the Camellia bowl. 21,395 in attendance and most of it were App fans with 2 week notice a week before xmas. Not bad. The town rolled out the red carpet for each team and had a blast. I can say Chatty never felt that welcoming when I went in '05 and '07. Crowd was a smidgen bigger in Montgomery too.

[Baldy]

Eh, at least the SunBelt only has Thursday games and it's supposed to be only one Thursday game per team. But App was drew the short straw and got two this year, 14 days apart, against the #1 and #3 team in the conference. I'm not a fan of Thursday games as it goes against NFL and they're on ESPNU. But I'm not emperor of the world, so I'll take what I get.

I will say, that I went to the Camellia bowl. 21,395 in attendance and most of it were App fans with 2 week notice a week before xmas. Not bad. The town rolled out the red carpet for each team and had a blast. I can say Chatty never felt that welcoming when I went in '05 and '07. Crowd was a smidgen bigger in Montgomery too.
We had two Thursday games two years in a row. Probably will have two next season as well. I don't think App and GS will play on a Saturday again for a long time. Seems that stAte and ULL play on a Tuesday night every year on the Deuce. It also won't surprise me if we end up playing on Tuesdays at some point.

[AshevilleApp2]

And why do they play games on weeknights? Because they are chasing more TV revenue and the TV networks need something to fill their programming schedule. I know many Bison fans would rather stick to state-wide TV coverage and enjoy Saturday tailgating than play during the week when many out-of-towners might not even be able to get to the game on time.

And that is legitimate. Not trying to coerce others to make a move that may be wrong for them.

[Nor Eastern]

We had two Thursday games two years in a row. Probably will have two next season as well. I don't think App and GS will play on a Saturday again for a long time. Seems that stAte and ULL play on a Tuesday night every year on the Deuce. It also won't surprise me if we end up playing on Tuesdays at some point.

Oh man, you're right. At the very least App/GaSo should be the last regular game of the season. A Tuesday game on ESPN2 be okay ratings-wise but I'd rather have a Thursday game on ESPNU

[Nor Eastern]

But back on topic. I for one am happy that CCU joined the Belt. Mainly for selfish reasons. GSU, Troy and GS were the only car trips I was willing to make. CCU adds another nice easy car trip. Also, their plans for the stadium upgrade look legit. I think they'll start to get more attendance in time. Them being in the conference helps with the Charleston Bowl that is gonna be a thing starting next year. If the belt would have just added EKU too I'd have been thrilled. Wish JMU would make a leap too. Those games were always fun in Boone.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Anyone wanting to arrange to attend the App State/ULF game could have done so back in August when App's regular-season matchup against a conference foe was known. They may also have correctly figured out that the game might affect 1) the Sun Belt title race and/or 2) bowl positioning or eligibility. Conversely, the 16,000 fans going to the App State game in 2012 had exactly two weeks to divine the opponent, whether they were even going to have a home game, and whether they could have attended. I.e., not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Bottom line, however, is that Furman was packing in 28,800 for a league game, Georgia Southern is packing in about the same as they were in the SoCon, and ULF isn't packing anyone in. The Sun Belt hasn't meant any sort of uptick in attendance over the SoCon, while costing loads more money.

I agree that you guys should end with Georgia Southern because that would be a great end-of-the-year rivalry game.

[DoWe]

Anyone wanting to arrange to attend the App State/ULF game could have done so back in August when App's regular-season matchup against a conference foe was known. They may also have correctly figured out that the game might affect 1) the Sun Belt title race and/or 2) bowl positioning or eligibility. Conversely, the 16,000 fans going to the App State game in 2012 had exactly two weeks to divine the opponent, whether they were even going to have a home game, and whether they could have attended. I.e., not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Bottom line, however, is that Furman was packing in 28,800 for a league game, Georgia Southern is packing in about the same as they were in the SoCon, and ULF isn't packing anyone in. The Sun Belt hasn't meant any sort of uptick in attendance over the SoCon, while costing loads more money.

I agree that you guys should end with Georgia Southern because that would be a great end-of-the-year rivalry game.
You are a simple troll. AGS would be a better place without you, but the ignore list exists for a reason. Please, get some meds!

[Nor Eastern]

Lehigh that's a pretty horrible comparison. I showed stats of the Troy game that fell in a Saturday 9 days after GaSo home game and 5 days before the stAte home game and it had over 26,000. This was an opponent that isn't a historical rival. In 4-5 years it probably will be bringing 30k+ . Your comparisons are pretty disingenuous. And your arguments are pretty poor. Sorry that App has enjoyed and thrived in the SunBelt to your chagrin.

[Baldy]

Anyone wanting to arrange to attend the App State/ULF game could have done so back in August when App's regular-season matchup against a conference foe was known. They may also have correctly figured out that the game might affect 1) the Sun Belt title race and/or 2) bowl positioning or eligibility. Conversely, the 16,000 fans going to the App State game in 2012 had exactly two weeks to divine the opponent, whether they were even going to have a home game, and whether they could have attended. I.e., not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Bottom line, however, is that Furman was packing in 28,800 for a league game, Georgia Southern is packing in about the same as they were in the SoCon, and ULF isn't packing anyone in. The Sun Belt hasn't meant any sort of uptick in attendance over the SoCon, while costing loads more money.

I agree that you guys should end with Georgia Southern because that would be a great end-of-the-year rivalry game.

Give it up. You lost.

Thinking App wouldn't have a home playoff game at that time in history is akin to thinking that NDSU won't have a home playoff game next year.

Just to set the record straight. Even with 3 Thursday night games over the past 2 seasons, we're averaging way more than we did in FCS. Season tickets have increased by over 20%, and 6 of our 10 biggest crowds of all time have come within the last 2 seasons...FBS seasons.

Stick to subjects more in your realm of knowledge, MAC, Lehigh or whatever.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Give it up. You lost.

Thinking App wouldn't have a home playoff game at that time in history is akin to thinking that NDSU won't have a home playoff game next year.

Just to set the record straight. Even with 3 Thursday night games over the past 2 seasons, we're averaging way more than we did in FCS. Season tickets have increased by over 20%, and 6 of our 10 biggest crowds of all time have come within the last 2 seasons...FBS seasons.

Stick to subjects more in your realm of knowledge, MAC, Lehigh or whatever.

Your best attended home game in 2015 was when you hosted The Citadel.

[AshevilleApp2]

Your best attended home game in 2015 was when you hosted The Citadel.

And what does that prove?

[Baldy]

Your best attended home game in 2015 was when you hosted The Citadel.
That's about as relevant as it being parents weekend for that game.

Keep trying. xcoffeex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And what does that prove?

Best drawing opponents are FCS/former SoCon foes?

The 24K App State/Georgia Southern game this year also supports this theory.

[Lehigh'98]

Not sure the point here, but wouldn't avg attendance apply? I'm assuming LFN is trying to say that App and GSU aren't making as much $ (revenue - expenses) as before. I doubt it's true, but even if it was, you need a bigger sample than the first two years.

[Nor Eastern]

Best drawing opponents are FCS/former SoCon foes?

The 24K App State/Georgia Southern game this year also supports this theory.

Umm, App had over 26k for Troy.

[Baldy]

Best drawing opponents are FCS/former SoCon foes?

The 24K App State/Georgia Southern game this year also supports this theory.

It supports the fact it's a rivalry game. xnutsx

- - - Updated - - -


Umm, App had over 26k for Troy.
And GS had 24K for Western Michigan.

[Baldy]

I really enjoyed Temple's time in the MAC for football! I think the conference has a great identity, purpose and history. It's one of the more stable conferences in the country. There's a perfect blend of schools who are comfortable in their own skin. Academically it's pretty strong imo. Miami(OH) and Buffalo are legit national universities. Ohio, CMU, Akron and Toledo have great reputations as well. The conference has a strong alumni presence in Indianapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago and Indianapolis. There's a lot of people with Big 10/MAC or vice versa undergrad and graduate degrees in that part of the country, or so I've been told.

ESPN also loves the league and always portrays it in a fun loving sort of way. That equity as really helped the league over the last 10 years. While the weekday games have hurt attendance there's no doubt it has widen its appeal. The average joe at the end of the bar knows about about weekday MAC games now.....

Had the AAC never come about I would have been perfectly content with Temple's MAC/A10 setup. With that said, very few people in Philly cared about MAC football.

Sun Belt team former FCS SoCon member Georgia Southern just embarrassed the MAC Champion by 31 points. App State beat the 3rd place MAC team. Georgia Southern also beat another MAC bowl team by 3 or 4 TD's this season as well.

Do you think we belong now? xcoffeex

[Lehigh'98]

Sun Belt team former FCS SoCon member Georgia Southern just embarrassed the MAC Champion by 31 points. App State beat the 3rd place MAC team. Georgia Southern also beat another MAC bowl team by 3 or 4 TD's this season as well.

Do you think we belong now? xcoffeex

Very nice win for you guys! I think Babers would have helped them offensively and maybe they wouldn't have had those 3rd qtr turnovers, but wouldn't have changed the outcome. Nicely done

[Baldy]

Very nice win for you guys! I think Babers would have helped them offensively and maybe they wouldn't have had those 3rd qtr turnovers, but wouldn't have changed the outcome. Nicely done
Thanks 98 xthumbsupxxthumbsupx

I don't think Baber's presence keeps Matt Johnson from dropping those balls, but remember every coach that was on the Georgia Southern sideline last night except for maybe...hopefully one is no longer employed by Georgia Southern today.

[BisonFan02]

Sun Belt team former FCS SoCon member Georgia Southern just embarrassed the MAC Champion by 31 points. App State beat the 3rd place MAC team. Georgia Southern also beat another MAC bowl team by 3 or 4 TD's this season as well.

Do you think we belong now? xcoffeex

Yup...you guys are made for each other.

[UNHWildcat18]

Sun Belt team former FCS SoCon member Georgia Southern just embarrassed the MAC Champion by 31 points. App State beat the 3rd place MAC team. Georgia Southern also beat another MAC bowl team by 3 or 4 TD's this season as well.

Do you think we belong now? xcoffeex

Very happy for you guys! Both of your bowl games probably got more views than the FCS NC will get. While I love that UNH gets to compete for a NC every year and I love that we compete against our rival schools. I kinda wish we could go FBS but that will never happen.

[Baldy]

Yup...you guys are made for each other.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/f148bdfaaa42167597d36aafbf65bf7a/tumblr_mjnxltVVT71ro2i2ho1_500.gif

[BisonFan02]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/f148bdfaaa42167597d36aafbf65bf7a/tumblr_mjnxltVVT71ro2i2ho1_500.gif

0-3

[Nor Eastern]

Looks like App drew right at 2 million viewers to their bowl. 73% increase for the Camellia bowl.

Bet GaSo's bowl will be even higher rated.

[Baldy]

0-3

Want some peanut butter with that Jelly. xlolx

[walliver]

I don't think any rational person expected a big jump in attendance at GSU or ASU. ASU was drawing at near capacity had had little headroom for expansion. GSU's expansion opened up more expensive seats and expanded capacity with actual seats. And to be honest, SunBelt teams themselves are not of any major increased casual fans interest than SoCon teams

Getting back to the actual gist of this thread, Coastal Carolina, the situation is quite different. Coastal currently averages around 9000 per game, with lower numbers for playoffs. They will need to rapidly double or triple attendance to get up to reasonable standards for FBS. Few SunBelt teams will be of local interest. Most locals are already Clemson or South Carolina fans, and Snowbirds and Half-Backers will not be attracted by ULL, ULM and Troy. The NCAA obviously doesn't actually care about attendance so they won't be kicked out, but I just don't see how an FBS team drawing less than 20K per game makes any financial sense, other than the geographically condensed MAC.

I have no animosity towards our recently departed. GSU will likely be a good long-term fit for the Sun Belt. ASU, I suspect, still longs to join ODU and UNCC in C-USA.

[Nor Eastern]

I dont see App and GS separating. Too perfect for one another and make each other stronger. CCU adds an okay Football program but offers great baseball and good shooty hoops squeaky shoes.

FB doesn't always drive the expansion. The Belt is a huge Baseball conference and CCU adds to that.

Baseball, imo, is why UTC hasn't gotten an offer from SunBelt after MTSU left.

[Bisonwinagn]

I dont see App and GS separating. Too perfect for one another and make each other stronger. CCU adds an okay Football program but offers great baseball and good shooty hoops squeaky shoes.

FB doesn't always drive the expansion. The Belt is a huge Baseball conference and CCU adds to that.

Baseball, imo, is why UTC hasn't gotten an offer from SunBelt after MTSU left.

Good post. Most people forget these moves are not just about football. However, I think CCU has a ways to go to catch GSU and App in football.

[kdinva]

GSU will likely be a good long-term fit for the Sun Belt. ASU, I suspect, still longs to join ODU and UNCC in C-USA.

I can see that.........I think ODU joined C-USA to be a "travel partner" with ECU......and a few months later, ECU left for AAC.......

[Lehigh Football Nation]

GSU will likely be a good long-term fit for the Sun Belt.

Do GSU fans feel this way?

[Baldy]

Do GSU fans feel this way?
Of course not. FBS conferences aren't regionalized, and probably never will be again.

[Cocky]

Of course not. FBS conferences aren't regionalized, and probably never will be again.

Which is causing most of the lack of interest in the bottom conferences. GaSo is luckier than most with App St, GSU and now CCU being close or old rivals. App St is a misfit in the SunBelt and needs a conference with closer rivals but would hurt GaSo if they moved. GSU has GaSo and no one else to draw a crowd.

Then I look at the MAC at its attendance, kills my theory. But as a fan, I want JSU to be in a league with all schools within reasonable auto traveling distance.

We have the same issue with the OVC and conference games are a tough sale.

[dgtw]

I think the Sun Belt and C-USA should get together and trade teams so everyone in the west is on one league and the eastern teams are in the other. Idaho and NMSU could be all sports in the western league. Not sure what they'd do with the non-football members.

As for us, I'd love to be in the SoCon. It isn't what it once was but still better than the OVC. We'd be less than two hours from Samford and Chattanoga. Mercer is less than three with Wofford and Furman about four.

All of them would be better road trips and would bring more fans than SEMO. If we aren't going FBS, I wish we could get in there. It is also football centric with only one heretic that doesn't play football.


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[Sitting Bull]

Of course not. FBS conferences aren't regionalized, and probably never will be again.

The P5 conferences are regionalized.

It's all the G5 wannabes that are wiling to link wherever they see a chance to move up further, P5 in their dreams. That's what will never happen.

After all the success at Boise State as example, they still get stuck playing Northern Illinois in some pre Christmas Bowl in front of 15,000 fans.

Of all the arguments I keep reading on why it is so exciting to move to FBS, it's never about the anticipation of the conference they are joining - or playing those schools and any other G5 programs - or what the downside might be to all the other athletic teams - it's always for a possible shot to host a game against a P5 team. Seems like a lot to risk for a home game agsinst Wake Forest.

[AshevilleApp2]

The P5 conferences are regionalized.

It's all the G5 wannabes that are wiling to link wherever they see a chance to move up further, P5 in their dreams. That's what will never happen.

After all the success at Boise State as example, they still get stuck playing Northern Illinois in some pre Christmas Bowl in front of 15,000 fans.

Of all the arguments I keep reading on why it is so exciting to move to FBS, it's never about the anticipation of the conference they are joining - or playing those schools and any other G5 programs - or what the downside might be to all the other athletic teams - it's always for a possible shot to host a game against a P5 team. Seems like a lot to risk for a home game agsinst Wake Forest.

Louisville, Syracuse and Florida State in the ACC is regionalized?

[Baldy]

Louisville, Syracuse and Florida State in the ACC is regionalized?

I think Rutgers, Maryland, and West Virginia would agree.

[AshevilleApp2]

I think Rutgers, Maryland, and West Virginia would agree.

And I forgot to mention Miami and Notre Dame (Non Football) in the ACC.

[Sader87]

Don't forget BC....it's a shame that a formal Eastern 1-A/FBS conference (including Penn St) was nevah formed. Long story between Paterno wanting one and squabbling with the Big East (which we should have joined xlolx) basketball schools in the 70s and 80s....but a league with Army, BC, Rutgers, Syracuse, Temple, Penn St, Pitt, West Virginia, Navy....and then sprinkle in some of the newer FBS schools like UConn and UMass and you'd have a fairly solid conference with much more interest in college football in the Northeast imo.

[DoWe]

The P5 conferences are regionalized.It's all the G5 wannabes that are wiling to link wherever they see a chance to move up further, P5 in their dreams. That's what will never happen.After all the success at Boise State as example, they still get stuck playing Northern Illinois in some pre Christmas Bowl in front of 15,000 fans.Of all the arguments I keep reading on why it is so exciting to move to FBS, it's never about the anticipation of the conference they are joining - or playing those schools and any other G5 programs - or what the downside might be to all the other athletic teams - it's always for a possible shot to host a game against a P5 team. Seems like a lot to risk for a home game agsinst Wake Forest.Hey homer, they are mid-majors looking for better fit. W & M is not. Gobble , gobble...or whatever your Tribe thing is.

[blueballs]

The P5 conferences are regionalized.

It's all the G5 wannabes that are wiling to link wherever they see a chance to move up further, P5 in their dreams. That's what will never happen.

After all the success at Boise State as example, they still get stuck playing Northern Illinois in some pre Christmas Bowl in front of 15,000 fans.

Of all the arguments I keep reading on why it is so exciting to move to FBS, it's never about the anticipation of the conference they are joining - or playing those schools and any other G5 programs - or what the downside might be to all the other athletic teams - it's always for a possible shot to host a game against a P5 team. Seems like a lot to risk for a home game agsinst Wake Forest.

Welp, I looked at the ratings of the GoDaddy Bowl and it had twice the viewership of any FCS game- playoff or otherwise- that GS ever participated in. The GDB had a primetime spot on ESPN with no other college football being shown, and GS took full advantage of it. It was the highest rated cable program on TV on Wednesday night.

Also, a lot of fans of both App and GS are writing in the forums that the bowl experience is far better than anything they experienced in the FCS playoffs, including winning NC's. That bowl experience and TV ratings back up what GS's President at the time Dr. Keel stated as the mission of the athletic dept., which is to be the "front porch of the university," and to present the university to as many people as possible.

I think the GS and App people would universally agree that there is no going back and both wonder why they waited so long. However, it ain't cheap and some old timers got rankled when they all of a sudden had to pony up a lot more for the same perks they had for decades.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Welp, I looked at the ratings of the GoDaddy Bowl and it had twice the viewership of any FCS game- playoff or otherwise- that GS ever participated in. The GDB had a primetime spot on ESPN with no other college football being shown, and GS took full advantage of it. It was the highest rated cable program on TV on Wednesday night.

Also, a lot of fans of both App and GS are writing in the forums that the bowl experience is far better than anything they experienced in the FCS playoffs, including winning NC's. That bowl experience and TV ratings back up what GS's President at the time Dr. Keel stated as the mission of the athletic dept., which is to be the "front porch of the university," and to present the university to as many people as possible.

I think the GS and App people would universally agree that there is no going back and both wonder why they waited so long. However, it ain't cheap and some old timers got rankled when they all of a sudden had to pony up a lot more for the same perks they had for decades.

I think you need to give it a couple of years. First bowl game in school history was always going to be a HUGE event. After a few more bowl games against other G5 teams that ultimately mean very little will cause the value to diminish imo.

[CID1990]

Welp, I looked at the ratings of the GoDaddy Bowl and it had twice the viewership of any FCS game- playoff or otherwise- that GS ever participated in. The GDB had a primetime spot on ESPN with no other college football being shown, and GS took full advantage of it. It was the highest rated cable program on TV on Wednesday night.

Also, a lot of fans of both App and GS are writing in the forums that the bowl experience is far better than anything they experienced in the FCS playoffs, including winning NC's. That bowl experience and TV ratings back up what GS's President at the time Dr. Keel stated as the mission of the athletic dept., which is to be the "front porch of the university," and to present the university to as many people as possible.

I think the GS and App people would universally agree that there is no going back and both wonder why they waited so long. However, it ain't cheap and some old timers got rankled when they all of a sudden had to pony up a lot more for the same perks they had for decades.

Y'all shore do write a lot about viewership like you get a dollar per person


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[BisonFan02]

When can we move this to "other sports"?

[blueballs]

I think you need to give it a couple of years. First bowl game in school history was always going to be a HUGE event. After a few more bowl games against other G5 teams that ultimately mean very little will cause the value to diminish imo.

No question about it... the newness of the experience definitely weighs into it.

I was surprised the ratings were that much higher than the GS/NDSU semi-final in 2012 (Friday night 8pm on ESPN2) and the 2012 GS/ODU playoff game (Saturday afternoon at 1pm on ESPN), but the numbers don't lie. The GDB had twice as many viewers as either one of those games.

[DFW HOYA]

The P5 conferences are regionalized.


http://kccollegegameday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Big12guys_I111025230637.jpg

[kdinva]

The P5 conferences are regionalized.


what about Florida @ Missouri? I'm sure those A.D's love flying all their Olympic Sports teams every season......or Florida @ Tex A&M. Syracuse @ Miami; same thing. Nebraska @ Rutgers....

[awBison]

I don't get it I guess. If you're not even winning championships at the FCS level what do you expect to gain at the FBS level? Especially the lowest level of FBS.
Seems pointless and expensive to me. Lets be honest, this is not going to generate any more money or support for the schools at this level. If anything they'll
fade even further into obscurity because of these moves. Nobody pays attention to the lowest level of FCS or FBS teams. Who even knows the names of the teams
that don't make the playoffs or top 25 in the polls in FCS? Nobody. Similar with FBS. Who can even name a team outside of the top 25? Not many.
Very few pay any attention to losing teams. If you couldn't even make it in FCS, I can't see how going FBS would help anything.

[FargoBison]

I don't get it I guess. If you're not even winning championships at the FCS level what do you expect to gain at the FBS level? Especially the lowest level of FBS.
Seems pointless and expensive to me. Lets be honest, this is not going to generate any more money or support for the schools at this level. If anything they'll
fade even further into obscurity because of these moves. Nobody pays attention to the lowest level of FCS or FBS teams. Who even knows the names of the teams
that don't make the playoffs or top 25 in the polls in FCS? Nobody. Similar with FBS. Who can even name a team outside of the top 25? Not many.
Very few pay any attention to losing teams. If you couldn't even make it in FCS, I can't see how going FBS would help anything.

If you are in the AAC or MWC you have a lot to gain, but leagues like the MAC and especially the Belt you don't gain that much at all.

[Bisonoline]

I don't get it I guess. If you're not even winning championships at the FCS level what do you expect to gain at the FBS level? Especially the lowest level of FBS.
Seems pointless and expensive to me. Lets be honest, this is not going to generate any more money or support for the schools at this level. If anything they'll
fade even further into obscurity because of these moves. Nobody pays attention to the lowest level of FCS or FBS teams. Who even knows the names of the teams
that don't make the playoffs or top 25 in the polls in FCS? Nobody. Similar with FBS. Who can even name a team outside of the top 25? Not many.
Very few pay any attention to losing teams. If you couldn't even make it in FCS, I can't see how going FBS would help anything.

Moving up a division many times has more to do with the academic gain as it does sports. What does the school bring to the conference and what can the school gain from joining said conference. Also does the school joining increase the conference footprint. Theres a host of other reasons that have nothing to do with athletics. ex. Look at what the Big 10 gained by bringing in Penn State, Nebraska. Look how they expanded there TV footprint by adding Maryland and Rutgers.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If you are in the AAC or MWC you have a lot to gain, but leagues like the MAC and especially the Belt you don't gain that much at all.

You have a lot to gain to a point. You'll get talked about and patted on the back during the regular season and perhaps thrown a bone. But when it's all said and done you're year is going to end up far from the limelight. The best chance for a national championship still remains in hoops.

I love Temple football but being a G5 program in the current bowl system sucks. Unless you earn the NY Six bowl bid the year will end in complete obscurity and ultimate irrelevancy most likely. A final Top 25 ranking would offset a middling bowl win to some extent...

I like what Lehigh has to play for more than what Temple has to play for....yup I said it....

[FargoBison]

You have a lot to gain to a point. You'll get talked about and padded on the back during the regular season and perhaps thrown a bone. But when it's all said and done you're year is going to end up far from the limelight. The best chance for a national championship still remains in hoops.

I love Temple football but being a G5 program in the current bowl system sucks. Unless you earn the NY Six bowl bid the year will end in complete obscurity and ultimate irrelevancy most likely. A final Top 25 ranking would offset a middling bowl win to some extent...

I like what Lehigh has to play for more than what Temple has to play for....yup I said it....

If you are in the AAC or MWC you at least have shot at being in a bowl game of some relevance and you are in a league with a decent TV deal. Temple got a lot of positive run out of their season this year. Also not football related but you also get to fall back on being in a tremendous basketball conference.

[DFW HOYA]

I love Temple football but being a G5 program in the current bowl system sucks. Unless you earn the NY Six bowl bid the year will end in complete obscurity and ultimate irrelevancy most likely. A final Top 25 ranking would offset a middling bowl win to some extent...

I like what Lehigh has to play for more than what Temple has to play for....yup I said it....

And yet, how many schools move out of the G5 to play for the glory of the 24-team playoff? None. And none will, frankly.

Reminds me of the quote from Rev. John Brooks S.J. on the Patriot League: "We have set a model for others to follow. So far, no one has followed."

[Lehigh'98]

I don't get it I guess. If you're not even winning championships at the FCS level what do you expect to gain at the FBS level? Especially the lowest level of FBS.
Seems pointless and expensive to me. Lets be honest, this is not going to generate any more money or support for the schools at this level. If anything they'll
fade even further into obscurity because of these moves. Nobody pays attention to the lowest level of FCS or FBS teams. Who even knows the names of the teams
that don't make the playoffs or top 25 in the polls in FCS? Nobody. Similar with FBS. Who can even name a team outside of the top 25? Not many.
Very few pay any attention to losing teams. If you couldn't even make it in FCS, I can't see how going FBS would help anything.

No one knows the top level FCS programs either outside of a few alumni and us diehards. Don't kid yourself, low level FBS IS way more exposure than top level FCS. Even if you are getting smacked around by the SEC, a lot of people are watching.

[unknown3]

Obscure bowls > FCS playoffs no matter how much you try to make it seem otherwise.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Obscure bowls > FCS playoffs no matter how much you try to make it seem otherwise.

In terms of what? Accomplishment or exposure? There's no doubt that during the regular season a decent FBS program will receive way more pub than even a great FCS team. But when it comes to the way the season ends I'll take the playoffs basically every time.

[Lehigh'98]

In terms of what? Accomplishment or exposure? There's no doubt that during the regular season a decent FBS program will receive way more pub than even a great FCS team. But when it comes to the way the season ends I'll take the playoffs basically every time.


Two completely different things. Accomplishment is a personal choice and fans adapt to their situation. Exposure is factual and has numbers to back it up.

[BisonFan02]

Two completely different things. Accomplishment is a personal choice and fans adapt to their situation. Exposure is factual and has numbers to back it up.

So does the cost of that FBS exposure....I've got the facts to back that up.....ROI to justify?

[rokamortis]

I thought this was a good articled to add to the discussion. I doubt it changes anyone's mind here but it shows that these "no name" bowls do mater to some.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/12/21/10629326/cure-bowl-2015-san-jose-state-georgia-state

[Baldy]

Well, that would explain all the empty seats then, I guess the "fans" were all watching on TV.

Both the FCS playoff games were sellouts. Did any of these "bowls" sell out? Did any of them really have any significant attendance above the FCS semis?
I guess they were...by a 2 to 1 margin. It's awesome the games were a sell out. It's what the fans at both schools deserve. Being a sell out is relative though. The Camellia had 21K compared to JSU's 23K, so that's pretty much wash. The GoDaddy had 28K, way more than NDSU. The Bison may have had a sell out, but Ladd-Peeples holds 40K. Again, its all relative. Not bad considering Boone, NC is 450+ miles from Montgomery, AL, and Statesboro is also about 450 miles from Mobile.

[Baldy]

So does the cost of that FBS exposure....I've got the facts to back that up.....ROI to justify?
It's worth every penny.

[Nor Eastern]

I guess they were...by a 2 to 1 margin. It's awesome the games were a sell out. It's what the fans at both schools deserve. Being a sell out is relative though. The Camellia had 21K compared to JSU's 23K, so that's pretty much wash. The GoDaddy had 28K, way more than NDSU. The Bison may have had a sell out, but Ladd-Peeples holds 40K. Again, its all relative. Not bad considering Boone, NC is 450+ miles from Montgomery, AL, and Statesboro is also about 450 miles from Mobile.

Not only was the Camellia Bowl 86% full for a two wee notice on tickets. But 1.9 Million people watched it on TV. GaSo had 28k at their game and 2.3 Million watching it on TV. I bet the JSU/SHSU and NDSU/Rich game didn't have those nummbers.

Yes. We don't play for national championships in a playoff. But. We play for the best season possible. 11 Wins for App this year. Impressive. Wins against the MAC, MWC and CUSA were fun to watch.

[Nor Eastern]

Also, now being FBS it'll be fun to watch games at Kidd Brewer that would no way happen before.

Miami and Wake Forest are just the first two ACC home games. Marshall signed a H/H with App too. Can't wait to see those sniffers take an L at Kidd Brewer.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Also, now being FBS it'll be fun to watch games at Kidd Brewer that would no way happen before.

Miami and Wake Forest are just the first two ACC home games. Marshall signed a H/H with App too. Can't wait to see those sniffers take an L at Kidd Brewer.

It will be interesting to see if GSU and App State can strengthen their program at the FBS level in order sustain coaching turnover on a regular basis. Maybe even generate enough revenue to at least keep coaches around a few extra years. GSU will have their 4th(?) head coach in the last 6 or so years iirc. There is a great history and tradition but that only carries you far when there's a consistent turnover in leadership. These 10+ win seasons can quickly become 6 or 7.

The newness is going to carry App State and GSU another year or two. However, any slippage in success will cause a drastic drop in relevancy given our G5 status. Toledo, Boise State, Houston, Navy, Marshall, NIU and Air Force have built up good amount of equity over the last decade+. The rest of us are trying to scratch and claw for a piece....

[Lehigh'98]

So does the cost of that FBS exposure....I've got the facts to back that up.....ROI to justify?

No doubt that the expenses are higher, but the exposure it brings to the school is undoubtedly much more. That is my only point.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

expanded there TV footprint by adding Maryland and Rutgers.

Stop it. There's coffee spit all over my computer screen again.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Exposure seems to be in the eye of the beholder.

I think anyone can understand a CFP playoff spot or a NCAA Final Four appearance gives a school recognition and a reach on TV that is unparalleled. Once you get beyond that, though, how do you rank it? Lehigh got more "exposure" from upsetting Duke in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament than every FCS playoff win, so monumental 1st round or 2nd round upset is a big deal in terms of TV. Norfolk State over Missouri, Lehigh over Duke, UNI's run to the Sweet 16 over Kansas, Dayton... those get serious "exposure".

I didn't pay any attention to the Camellia Bowl, the Military Bowl, and the endless parade of bowls in the last two weeks. I'm not betting on the games, I have no emotional tie to dear old Appalachian State or Navy, and it has no bearing on the championship I care most about. I'll probably tune into the CFP, but after that, it's just an endless parade of exhibition games. College football is the greatest sport in the world, but it is in deep danger of over-exposure: too many exhibition games and dilution of their product, precisely what has happened to the regular season of college basketball. People block out the exhibitions and only tune in during the big stuff. That's what's happening.

If you accept that the FCS playoffs are just one more game in this rabble of football games, why not play for that and follow that? At least there is a true champion among the FCS conferences, earned through head-to-head victories, not the 3rd placed MAC team versus the 2nd placed Sun Belt team.

Programs do what they think what is best for their schools, but I still fail to see how doubling the expense of your football team to play an exhibition game vs. a MAC team at the end of a season is a good use of funds. If you are truly looking for exposure you are way better off sinking 3x the money into your hoops program and knocking off Indiana in the NCAA Tournament.

[Lehigh'98]

Exposure seems to be in the eye of the beholder.

I think anyone can understand a CFP playoff spot or a NCAA Final Four appearance gives a school recognition and a reach on TV that is unparalleled. Once you get beyond that, though, how do you rank it? Lehigh got more "exposure" from upsetting Duke in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament than every FCS playoff win, so monumental 1st round or 2nd round upset is a big deal in terms of TV. Norfolk State over Missouri, Lehigh over Duke, UNI's run to the Sweet 16 over Kansas, Dayton... those get serious "exposure".

I didn't pay any attention to the Camellia Bowl, the Military Bowl, and the endless parade of bowls in the last two weeks. I'm not betting on the games, I have no emotional tie to dear old Appalachian State or Navy, and it has no bearing on the championship I care most about. I'll probably tune into the CFP, but after that, it's just an endless parade of exhibition games. College football is the greatest sport in the world, but it is in deep danger of over-exposure: too many exhibition games and dilution of their product, precisely what has happened to the regular season of college basketball. People block out the exhibitions and only tune in during the big stuff. That's what's happening.

If you accept that the FCS playoffs are just one more game in this rabble of football games, why not play for that and follow that? At least there is a true champion among the FCS conferences, earned through head-to-head victories, not the 3rd placed MAC team versus the 2nd placed Sun Belt team.

Programs do what they think what is best for their schools, but I still fail to see how doubling the expense of your football team to play an exhibition game vs. a MAC team at the end of a season is a good use of funds. If you are truly looking for exposure you are way better off sinking 3x the money into your hoops program and knocking off Indiana in the NCAA Tournament.

You need to take the before and after and look at hard data, not making unfounded assumptions that only gamblers watch football bowls. There's also many, many more opportunities throughout the regular season for more as well. This may encourage more students to attend there, more funding...etc. In 10 years, compare the black vs red ink, school reputation, and then you will have your answer if it was the right move. You are all over them because they left FCS. Guess what, less people give a **** about FCS than FBS. They made the move, oh well, best of luck. Our teams our still here, life goes on.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You need to take the before and after and look at hard data, not making unfounded assumptions that only gamblers watch football bowls. There's also man, many more opportunities throughout the regular season for more as well. This may encourage more students to attend there, more funding...etc. In 10 years, compare the black vs red ink, school reputation, and then you will have your answer if it was the right move.

How do you measure "school reputation", and how do bowls play into that? Is Appalachian State's "reputation" that they beat Ohio this year in the Camellia Bowl, or is their "reputation" that they beat Michigan as an FCS school?

Also, how many other "opportunities" are we talking for games? Perhaps one more FBS game a year, and a home game against a big boy every, what, 3 years? As demonstrated by App State, FCS teams have opportunity for big-time games too. Hell, Coastal Carolina played a game vs. Penn State as an FCS school.

[knucklehead]

Also, now being FBS it'll be fun to watch games at Kidd Brewer that would no way happen before.

Miami and Wake Forest are just the first two ACC home games. Marshall signed a H/H with App too. Can't wait to see those sniffers take an L at Kidd Brewer.

That's what it's all about and why Liberty wants up. The idea of Wake, VT, UVA, or even ECU in William's stadium would be pretty awesome.

[tigonian02]

How do you measure "school reputation", and how do bowls play into that? Is Appalachian State's "reputation" that they beat Ohio this year in the Camellia Bowl, or is their "reputation" that they beat Michigan as an FCS school?

Also, how many other "opportunities" are we talking for games? Perhaps one more FBS game a year, and a home game against a big boy every, what, 3 years? As demonstrated by App State, FCS teams have opportunity for big-time games too. Hell, Coastal Carolina played a game vs. Penn State as an FCS school.

Apps FCS game was certainly an amazing moment in the history of their program and is not to be belittled by any means. But I don't think any App State fans/or administration would go back to FCS for a chance to upset a P5 school as an FCS school over upsetting a school as a G5. It won't pertain to Coastal after next season, but if they stayed FCS, per the new B1G rules, they would never play Penn State again. This in itself is an indication of perceived "school reputation" by a college's peers. The fact that FCS schools are starting to be shut out by certain conferences says that there is a limit to how much of a reputation that P5 conferences/ the NCAA will allow an FCS school to achieve. Same goes for the G5, but the reputation allowance is higher.

[AshevilleApp2]

How do you measure "school reputation", and how do bowls play into that? Is Appalachian State's "reputation" that they beat Ohio this year in the Camellia Bowl, or is their "reputation" that they beat Michigan as an FCS school?

Also, how many other "opportunities" are we talking for games? Perhaps one more FBS game a year, and a home game against a big boy every, what, 3 years? As demonstrated by App State, FCS teams have opportunity for big-time games too. Hell, Coastal Carolina played a game vs. Penn State as an FCS school.

Many FCS teams get the chance to play P5 teams, App just happened to win the big one. No P5 teams ever came to play in Boone before the move to the G5 though. Only time will tell about the wisdom of the move. But your whining on the subject is quite amusing. xnodx

[citdog]

I have always found it amusing that the only folks who seem to be interested in moving 'up' are those who have NEVER played at the highest level before. These are usually schools that people have to settle on due to their poor academic standing in high school and are safety schools for GOOD students. See usc-coastal, marshall, troy, ecu, pig's ass ga, etc etc. Their students don't measure up and so they seek out other ways to satisfy their schmeckle envy of those who do.

[AshevilleApp2]

I have always found it amusing that the only folks who seem to be interested in moving 'up' are those who have NEVER played at the highest level before. These are usually schools that people have to settle on due to their poor academic standing in high school and are safety schools for GOOD students. See usc-coastal, marshall, troy, ecu, pig's ass ga, etc etc. Their students don't measure up and so they seek out other ways to satisfy their schmeckle envy of those who do.

xlolx Maybe some truth to that.

But if you haven't played at the highest level before, how could you not move up?

And congratulations on those accomplishments in High School. xthumbsupx

[citdog]

xlolx Maybe some truth to that.

But if you haven't played at the highest level before, how could you not move up?

And congratulations on those accomplishments in High School. xthumbsupx

You should take the example of the BETTER schools with whom you were lately confederated who have.

THANKS!

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

It will be interesting to see if GSU and App State can strengthen their program at the FBS level in order sustain coaching turnover on a regular basis. Maybe even generate enough revenue to at least keep coaches around a few extra years. GSU will have their 4th(?) head coach in the last 6 or so years iirc. There is a great history and tradition but that only carries you far when there's a consistent turnover in leadership. These 10+ win seasons can quickly become 6 or 7.

The newness is going to carry App State and GSU another year or two. However, any slippage in success will cause a drastic drop in relevancy given our G5 status. Toledo, Boise State, Houston, Navy, Marshall, NIU and Air Force have built up good amount of equity over the last decade+. The rest of us are trying to scratch and claw for a piece....

You think this is only an issue for App State and GSU?

Dave Doeren: coached at NIU 2 seasons, gone after their 2012 year with the BCS Bowl
Dino Babers: coached at BGSU 2 seasons, gone after the MAC championship run this year
Matt Campbell: coached at Toledo 5 seasons, gone after the first season in which they get ranked
Darrel Hazell: coached at Kent State 2 seasons, gone after 2012 where they finished the regular-season ranked

Those are just examples I can think of off of the top of my head. If you're a G5 and you do well you're coach won't last long unless you are one of the small minority like Houston that have deep pockets (and make no mistake, even there Tom Herman won't last long).

If we recruit well (and we have recruited well so far) you don't have to completely hit the reset button every time a coach gets here.



Exposure seems to be in the eye of the beholder.

I think anyone can understand a CFP playoff spot or a NCAA Final Four appearance gives a school recognition and a reach on TV that is unparalleled. Once you get beyond that, though, how do you rank it? Lehigh got more "exposure" from upsetting Duke in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament than every FCS playoff win, so monumental 1st round or 2nd round upset is a big deal in terms of TV. Norfolk State over Missouri, Lehigh over Duke, UNI's run to the Sweet 16 over Kansas, Dayton... those get serious "exposure".

I didn't pay any attention to the Camellia Bowl, the Military Bowl, and the endless parade of bowls in the last two weeks. I'm not betting on the games, I have no emotional tie to dear old Appalachian State or Navy, and it has no bearing on the championship I care most about. I'll probably tune into the CFP, but after that, it's just an endless parade of exhibition games. College football is the greatest sport in the world, but it is in deep danger of over-exposure: too many exhibition games and dilution of their product, precisely what has happened to the regular season of college basketball. People block out the exhibitions and only tune in during the big stuff. That's what's happening.

If you accept that the FCS playoffs are just one more game in this rabble of football games, why not play for that and follow that? At least there is a true champion among the FCS conferences, earned through head-to-head victories, not the 3rd placed MAC team versus the 2nd placed Sun Belt team.

Programs do what they think what is best for their schools, but I still fail to see how doubling the expense of your football team to play an exhibition game vs. a MAC team at the end of a season is a good use of funds. If you are truly looking for exposure you are way better off sinking 3x the money into your hoops program and knocking off Indiana in the NCAA Tournament.

Whipping the MAC champions on national TV when people say you won't win in any conference other than the Sun Belt was a lot of fun…we'll see how quickly it gets old for our fan base, though….

I'm with you and a lot of FCS-minded people on this board that like the playoffs better than the lower-tier bowls. A lot of people don't seem to think that way, though. The GoDaddy Bowl got among the best ratings of any of the early bowls. It's most likely the most people who have ever watched Georgia Southern play a football game and none of the ratings for any FCS game played this season will come close.

[UNIFanSince1983]

We got bowl exposure this year without even moving up. Apparently we only got 31 yards vs Boise in our "Bowl" game too...

[AshevilleApp2]

You should take the example of the BETTER schools with whom you were lately confederated who have.

THANKS!

Easy there Son! I appreciate the great SAT you scored.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You think this is only an issue for App State and GSU?

Dave Doeren: coached at NIU 2 seasons, gone after their 2012 year with the BCS Bowl
Dino Babers: coached at BGSU 2 seasons, gone after the MAC championship run this year
Matt Campbell: coached at Toledo 5 seasons, gone after the first season in which they get ranked
Darrel Hazell: coached at Kent State 2 seasons, gone after 2012 where they finished the regular-season ranked

Those are just examples I can think of off of the top of my head. If you're a G5 and you do well you're coach won't last long unless you are one of the small minority like Houston that have deep pockets (and make no mistake, even there Tom Herman won't last long).

If we recruit well (and we have recruited well so far) you don't have to completely hit the reset button every time a coach gets here.

Some of the G5 programs are able to pay their HC's and assistants at level that's comparable to second tier FBS schools. As a result some schools are either able to retain their staffs longer or are able to replace them with more seasoned candidates.

The MAC has forever been known as the cradle of coaches. Toledo has done an awesome job of maintaining success despite turnover. NIU might finally be slipping some. BGSU has been a bit up and down the last 20 years but generally solid since Clawson took over 6-7 years ago.

[Bisonator]

Everyone likes to point out a single bowl game vs a single playoff game but in NDSU's case we get multiple playoff games at home and on ESPN/ESPN2. The exposure vs additional expenses probably wouldn't pencil out to much of a gain if any. The big thing is being able to schedule a regional P5 game and those appear to be getting harder to come by. It'll be interesting to see how the P5 scheduling continues over the next few years.

[catamount man]

Per footballscoop.com, former JMU head coach Mickey Matthews is Coastal's new defensive coordinator.

[knucklehead]

WOW. big hire

[centennial]

Everyone likes to point out a single bowl game vs a single playoff game but in NDSU's case we get multiple playoff games at home and on ESPN/ESPN2. The exposure vs additional expenses probably wouldn't pencil out to much of a gain if any. The big thing is being able to schedule a regional P5 game and those appear to be getting harder to come by. It'll be interesting to see how the P5 scheduling continues over the next few years.
If we knock out Iowa next year expect the boycott to continue. We cannot get any G5 teams to play us already. Our next 2 P5 opponents are Iowa, and Oregon. Maybe we should try scheduling Georgia Southern, and App State.

[tigonian02]

If we knock out Iowa next year expect the boycott to continue. We cannot get any G5 teams to play us already. Our next 2 P5 opponents are Iowa, and Oregon. Maybe we should try scheduling Georgia Southern, and App State.

Man, I bet GaSouthern would schedule you guys. We're also having trouble getting G5's to play us.

[BisonFan02]

Man, I bet GaSouthern would schedule you guys. We're also having trouble getting G5's to play us.

Not gonna happen. How much would Ga Southern pay in a guarantee? The Bison would need a good sized # to justify the loss of a OOC home game. Also, I would imagine the one FCS matchup they could muster for bowl eligibility would be more than readily available closer to home (also more winnable...and cheaper).

[Nor Eastern]

Not gonna happen. How much would Ga Southern pay in a guarantee? The Bison would need a good sized # to justify the loss of a OOC home game. Also, I would imagine the one FCS matchup they could muster for bowl eligibility would be more than readily available closer to home (also more winnable...and cheaper).


App doesn't have an FCS scheduled for 2016 but there is one OOC opening for 2017, but I hear we are looking toward CUSA. I'd like to see NDSU or Montana here, but I doubt there's any chance getting either in the next 10 years.

[centennial]

App doesn't have an FCS scheduled for 2016 but there is one OOC opening for 2017, but I hear we are looking toward CUSA. I'd like to see NDSU or Montana here, but I doubt there's any chance getting either in the next 10 years.
This is our big problem. Most G5 want to make a bowl game. Scheduling teams that can beat you but don't get you a lot of respect goes against logic.

[Nor Eastern]

This is our big problem. Most G5 want to make a bowl game. Scheduling teams that can beat you but don't get you a lot of respect goes against logic.



Yeh, I understand that logic. But from the Alum events I've been to the program is trying to move away from FCS games for the enforceable future. None next year and more than likely none next year. But in regards making it to a bowl game it'd be easier to get that 1 allowed win scheduling regional FCS teams than regional G5 teams like Akron, ODU and P5 teams like Wake, Miami and Tenn.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I would love for Temple to do a home and home with App State. I would be in Boone in a heartbeat.

[AshevilleApp2]

I would love for Temple to do a home and home with App State. I would be in Boone in a heartbeat.

Would love to have you there! We need tests against other G5 conferences, and the AAC is arguably the strongest of them.

[PurpleStreamers]

This sure seems like a pretty great fit for Mickey. Coaching up the D is his thing and he's going to be hell on Sun Belt offenses before long. Plus he's already plugged into the Chants recruiting territory and he's gonna love the life (i.e. the number of plush, available loops) in Myrtle. Really good hire and really happy for him as a JMU fan.

[walliver]

A bump in the road for CCU.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article75427947.html


Coastal Carolina University plans to pitch a cost revision for its football stadium expansion project as it meets yet again with the South Carolina Commission on Higher Education this week in its latest attempt to gain phase two state approval.

The university hopes to learn Thursday if it can finally move forward with its plans to more than double the size of Brooks Stadium in preparation for the Chanticleers’ move to the Sun Belt Conference and the NCAA’s Football Bowl Subdivision, but in the meanwhile, school leaders have already learned that they are dealing with an entirely new vetting process for such projects.

Read more here: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article75427947.html#storylink=cpy


I suspect they get the money in the end.

[kdinva]

A bump in the road for CCU.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article75427947.html



I suspect they get the money in the end.

Heck, head coach can fund it some.......

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The university explained that it did not have a true sense for all the expansion would need to entail until bringing in the architects. Needing more time to review all of the information on the university’s financial plan to repay the bonds, the committee put the matter on hold and called a special meeting later in the month.
But neither that meeting nor the regularly-scheduled April meeting provided the committee what it wanted to hear to give its approval.


“So Coastal Carolina, they were handed maybe the first ‘No’ in history, how did that happen?” Hofferth said. “Because we have CPAs on the board. We’re a lay board made of individuals who don’t get paid based on their time and talent and they [give] a lot to a cause bigger than themselves. ... This board knows industry trends in higher education. So wait a minute, you can’t just approve everything in this environment. We’re not doing that. We’re not putting our names on that. We have CPAs, we have attorneys on the board, we have business people saying, ‘What’s reasonable?’ We’re calling it the smell test – does this make sense?"

...

According to audio of the April meeting provided by the CHE, Hofferth voiced his concern that Coastal Carolina was underestimating the costs it would incur by moving up to the FBS and Hood Temple, the chair of the Committee on Finance & Facilities, questioned the application of the money set aside from that student fee and questioned whether the CAF could raise the money it is projecting.

You mean... it's going to cost more than predicted, the financial predictions are based on unvetted, best-case-scenario revenue predictions, and the approval to head to the Sun Belt was done on a way too aggressive timetable? Man, who could have predicted this?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Things are getting ugly in Chant land.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article75945117.html


“We did make the commitment to the Sun Belt Conference, which requires the stadium expansion. Our failure to meet that commitment could result in a number of things, the first being the negative media coverage that will hurt Coastal Carolina University for years,” DeCenzo continued in his opening address. “We have contracts with power-five schools which will pay us over $1 million per game; without being FBS we will never see that money, and worse yet we may have to break those contracts, which would result in a financial liability to us.

“But most importantly are the 25 recruits that we signed this year, eight of whom are from South Carolina. They start Coastal in the fall. Our failure to move this project along means our inability to meet NCAA requirements is in jeopardy, as would be our FBS standing. As a result we’d have to tell those 25 athletes that we cannot afford them the full scholarship they were promised when they signed with Coastal Carolina University. That to me would be the biggest tragedy of all.”

[PantherRob82]

Things are getting ugly in Chant land.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article75945117.html



Wow, even saying that to the media creates a lot of bad PR.

[dbackjon]

Things are getting ugly in Chant land.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article75945117.html



that is ugly

[CasualFan]

Cliff Notes version for those that aren't in SC:

Timeline:
- SC State almost goes bankrupt
- State legislature throws a hissy fit, talks about disbanding the Commission on Higher Education (CHE) for not doing their job and monitoring all state institutions (CHE has never failed to approve a project so far).
- A vote in the house (someone correct me if I'm wrong) actually passes to disband CHE
- A bill circulates to replace CHE with a Board of Regents that would control EVERYTHING at every institution (tuition, degrees offered, staffing levels, all of it) and I don't know if it has been passed.
- Next big project to go through CHE is CCU's stadium.
- CHE makes it a point to put CCU through the wringer and to demonstrate that they are not a rubber stamp board.

This is politics, pure and simple. If they had to, CCU could write a check for the stadium today - if they were allowed to spend money without CHE approval. Their plan is to finance the project and use the stadium to secure additional donations.

Another side note - a bill exists in the legislature to privatize all SC colleges and universities. CCU has asked to be first on the list if it does. The bill currently has CCU dead last to be privatized, in 2025. I kind of doubt it would ever pass - it sounds like a version of this has been around since 2003.

[jsnow84]

Cliff Notes version for those that aren't in SC:

Timeline:
- SC State almost goes bankrupt
- State legislature throws a hissy fit, talks about disbanding the Commission on Higher Education (CHE) for not doing their job and monitoring all state institutions (CHE has never failed to approve a project so far).
- A vote in the house (someone correct me if I'm wrong) actually passes to disband CHE
- A bill circulates to replace CHE with a Board of Regents that would control EVERYTHING at every institution (tuition, degrees offered, staffing levels, all of it) and I don't know if it has been passed.
- Next big project to go through CHE is CCU's stadium.
- CHE makes it a point to put CCU through the wringer and to demonstrate that they are not a rubber stamp board.

This is politics, pure and simple. If they had to, CCU could write a check for the stadium today - if they were allowed to spend money without CHE approval. Their plan is to finance the project and use the stadium to secure additional donations.

Another side note - a bill exists in the legislature to privatize all SC colleges and universities. CCU has asked to be first on the list if it does. The bill currently has CCU dead last to be privatized, in 2025. I kind of doubt it would ever pass - it sounds like a version of this has been around since 2003.

So, will it all be politics when CCU can't come close to making the attendance requirements? CCU isn't even close to being ready for FBS, bad decision.

[Twentysix]

So, will it all be politics when CCU can't come close to making the attendance requirements? CCU isn't even close to being ready for FBS, bad decision.

It's well established that that isn't a real thing.

[walliver]

I will now list all the schools kicked out of FBS for poor attendance:

/end list

[superman7515]

I will now list all the schools kicked out of FBS for poor attendance:

/end list

Now list all of the approximately 40 schools kicked out of 1A for poor attendance (I'll even help you out a bit, it included teams like Brown, Colgate, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Holy Cross...).

[Sitting Bull]

Now list all of the approximately 40 schools kicked out of 1A for poor attendance (I'll even help you out a bit, it included teams like Brown, Colgate, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Holy Cross...).

Again, the answer would be zero.

The reason those 40 or so were dropped was the 30,000 seat stadium requirement.

[superman7515]

Again, the answer would be zero.

The reason those 40 or so were dropped was the 30,000 seat stadium requirement.

Not exactly. While most didn't meet that requirement, neither did most of the MAC, PCAA, and several WAC schools, yet there was no effort to toss those schools out because their attendance exceeded the 17,500 requirement. The MAC & PCAA schools even were among those that voted to oust those with low attendance.

[dbackjon]

It's well established that that isn't a real thing.


Other than the fact that those schools have stadiums that seat more than 15K, so they can at least pretend to sell those many tickets ;)

[clenz]

Other than the fact that those schools have stadiums that seat more than 15K, so they can at least pretend to sell those many tickets ;)
And already being a member with an established stadium vs trying to become a member with stadium issues...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Is anyone else just a wee bit concerned that the president of Coastal Carolina seemingly tied all fifteen football scholarships this year to Sun Belt membership? As in, "if you don't approve this we are going to revoke these kids' scholarships"?

[NY Crusader 2010]

And already being a member with an established stadium vs trying to become a member with stadium issues...

But they have that conference invite tho xdrunkyx

[melloware13]

Similar to the old Big East rule of needing basketball venues of more than 15,000 for conference games. Some teams (Villanova) moved enough games to Wells Fargo Center to meet the requirement. Now, the Wildcats are the premier basketball home team of that arena though.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Is anyone else just a wee bit concerned that the president of Coastal Carolina seemingly tied all fifteen football scholarships this year to Sun Belt membership? As in, "if you don't approve this we are going to revoke these kids' scholarships"?

My understanding is that when you move to FBS have the option to compete in FCS post season in your last FCS season but you have to stay withing the scholarship limits, but teams (Georgia Southern and App State for example) always forego that option.

So if that's the case, it's very true that if this falls through Coastal probably does have to tell some of their signees they will not have scholarships anymore.

[BisonFan02]

My understanding is that when you move to FBS have the option to compete in FCS post season in your last FCS season but you have to stay withing the scholarship limits, but teams (Georgia Southern and App State for example) always forego that option.

So if that's the case, it's very true that if this falls through Coastal probably does have to tell some of their signees they will not have scholarships anymore.

Lovely

[rokamortis]

Is anyone else just a wee bit concerned that the president of Coastal Carolina seemingly tied all fifteen football scholarships this year to Sun Belt membership? As in, "if you don't approve this we are going to revoke these kids' scholarships"?

Not worried at all. The President is just playing politics like the CHE is. The CHE chair claims that he is very concerned about tuition and tax burden but yet doesn't consider that Coastal has some of the lowest in-state tuition or is funded by the state at the same level of schools 1/3 of the size. They explain their concerns but won't provide specific numbers.

It is all a politics - but from what I'm hearing Coastal is all in on the move FBS. I know you are very concerned about Coastal but don't be, there are other ways to get to the destination even if the most obvious path is currently blocked.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not worried at all. The President is just playing politics like the CHE is. The CHE chair claims that he is very concerned about tuition and tax burden but yet doesn't consider that Coastal has some of the lowest in-state tuition or is funded by the state at the same level of schools 1/3 of the size. They explain their concerns but won't provide specific numbers.

It is all a politics - but from what I'm hearing Coastal is all in on the move FBS. I know you are very concerned about Coastal but don't be, there are other ways to get to the destination even if the most obvious path is currently blocked.

I'm sure they're "all in" but there's that little matter of having a place to play football games.

The goings-on at Coastal is exactly why schools generally commission reports from consultants, with the results made public, before making the step of announcing an FBS transition. It's not as much scrutiny as I'd prefer - I'd want an independent, NCAA-reviewed audit of any school that wants to compete in FBS - but an independent study commissioned by the school would have at least prepared the public, and the politicians, for what was to come, and assigned some numbers to the effort. To their credit, Appalachian State and Georgia Southern did - you may or may not agree with the results, but there at least was something that shows some work was done and a plan in place.

[rokamortis]

I'm sure they're "all in" but there's that little matter of having a place to play football games.

The goings-on at Coastal is exactly why schools generally commission reports from consultants, with the results made public, before making the step of announcing an FBS transition. It's not as much scrutiny as I'd prefer - I'd want an independent, NCAA-reviewed audit of any school that wants to compete in FBS - but an independent study commissioned by the school would have at least prepared the public, and the politicians, for what was to come, and assigned some numbers to the effort. To their credit, Appalachian State and Georgia Southern did - you may or may not agree with the results, but there at least was something that shows some work was done and a plan in place.

Ah, the ol' consultant report - let's hire a person to tell us what we want to hear.

Coastal has an analysis and plan that the CHE is rejecting just because. In fact, the only request is for stadium expansion yet some are choosing to look at other factors and unilaterally rejecting Coastal's plans, revised plans, and appeals to have concrete goals. The new chair of the CHE is a former AD at Villanova and was on duty when they declined to go to the Big East in football in the 90's. If they would have then they would likely be in a P5 conference now like all of the other then full football playing members are now. So take his motivations and prior experience into account.

We didn't need a report. We have the analysis. We knew that we needed to leave the Big South for a number of reasons. We tried to go to other FCS conferences but couldn't get an invite from the conferences that make geographic sense. So this happened very quickly and we hopped on it. We could have commissioned a report like some of the other FCS schools but knew we needed to make a quick decision - and did.

As far as a place to play ... they have plans for that too. As I said, there are other paths to get to where you want to go.

[Libertine]

As I said, there are other paths to get to where you want to go.

Do tell.

No, seriously. Tell.

[rokamortis]

Do tell.
No, seriously. Tell.

I can't tell - but it may involve a guy whose name that sort of sounds like Larry Smallfell Lunar writing us a large check to gain an Ally for entry into the Sun Belt.

Or maybe we'll play our home games in Boston.

Lots of options.

[Libertine]

I can't tell - but it may involve a guy whose name that sort of sounds like Larry Smallfell Lunar writing us a large check to gain an Ally for entry into the Sun Belt.


Deal. I'll get on the horn.

[walliver]

For the uninitiated concerning South Carolina politics
There are 4 public schools with significant political influence which are well funded: USC-Columbia, Clemson, the Medical University of SC, and The Citadel. The other public schools have much less political influence (usually just regional influence) and are funded at much lower levels (CCU, CofC, USC-Upstate, Winthrop, USA-Aiken, Lander, Francis Marion, and SC State). The non-USC second tier schools have generally functioned somewhat autonomously with very little oversight - there has never been a master plan. Some of these schools grew faster than the state had hoped and their state funding was not adjusted.

If SC State had not come so close to failing, the CHE would have rubber-stamped the CCU stadium with little to no discussion. As it is now, any major capital expenditure at any of the second-tier schools will be scrutinized.

PS: By "second tier", I speak only of political influence. A Number of the second tier schools have higher academic reputations than USC-Columbia.

[Thundar]

lol, another Idaho, in the making. Why would a school like CcU even make this move?? Good luck guys, you will defiantly be a "big deal"

[Laker]

For the uninitiated concerning South Carolina politics
There are 4 public schools with significant political influence which are well funded: USC-Columbia, Clemson, the Medical University of SC, and The Citadel. The other public schools have much less political influence (usually just regional influence) and are funded at much lower levels (CCU, CofC, USC-Upstate, Winthrop, USA-Aiken, Lander, Francis Marion, and SC State). .

Why did Upstate change from Spartanburg? To make it seem more regional?

[MarkCCU]

CCU just emailed everyone asking for money. It would've been nice if they gave us some way other than emailing some guy out donation. Bush league, I tell ya!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[walliver]

Why did Upstate change from Spartanburg? To make it seem more regional?

There was a bill in the legislature to set up a campus in Greenville. There was concern that USCS's funding would decrease as a result.

By changing the name, as well as setting up a satellite campus at University Center in Greenville, this threat was eliminated.

[DFW HOYA]

Ah, the ol' consultant report - let's hire a person to tell us what we want to hear.

Coastal has an analysis and plan that the CHE is rejecting just because. In fact, the only request is for stadium expansion yet some are choosing to look at other factors and unilaterally rejecting Coastal's plans, revised plans, and appeals to have concrete goals. The new chair of the CHE is a former AD at Villanova and was on duty when they declined to go to the Big East in football in the 90's. If they would have then they would likely be in a P5 conference now like all of the other then full football playing members are now. So take his motivations and prior experience into account.

Or ask George Mason, the largest Division I university in the nation without football. A Carr Sports Associates report in 1998 told the GMU trustees that a 63-scholarship football was the only option to consider because there were no non-scholarship programs available in the area to play--a clear deception given Georgetown was 20 mins. away, a then-Patriot team in Towson an hour north, and various regional teams in the NEC and PL.

The motion to add football failed by one vote. It's never come up since.

[Laker]

There was a bill in the legislature to set up a campus in Greenville. There was concern that USCS's funding would decrease as a result.

By changing the name, as well as setting up a satellite campus at University Center in Greenville, this threat was eliminated.

Thanks!

[clenz]

Article I came across today. Maybe I missed it being posted

http://www.underdogdynasty.com/2016/5/10/11548316/can-coastal-carolina-hack-it-in-the-fbs




For many of the FBS upstarts within the Sun Belt, the most common assessment for them begins with "they have a lot of potential, but..."


As most schools learn in some way or another, the transition up to FBS usually exposes some warts within a program's infrastructure within 3-5 years. Georgia State faceplanted before learning how to walk. South Alabama had a decent start and but might be losing steam. Texas State's learning you can't be an FBS power without an FBS-caliber athletic department. Even Georgia Southern learned they're not above losing a successful head coach to Tulane.


Enter Coastal Carolina. The wonderfully named Chanticleers, a historical baseball heavyweight who will join the conference as a full member in 2017, are the newest entry in Karl Benson's vision for a southeastern-oriented powerhouse.


They have a ton of intangibles in their favor, and have a program competitive enough to where they could roar out of the gate just like their counterparts in Boone and Statesboro. Yet in terms of facilities and fan support, there are reasons to speculate that the momentum might not last.
Pros:


Myrtle Beach, aka the dressed down Miami, FL of the Sun Belt.
That brand new FBS smell with none of the FBS disappointment. Oh, the possibilities.
Their tiny, nice football stadium is about to become nicer and...less tiny.
Plenty of recent conference titles and FCS playoff appearances gives some momentum to springboard from into FBS.


Cons


Even with the expansion, Brooks Stadium will sit at 20,000 and will be the smallest Sun Belt stadium once Idaho moves out. And they're still not sure they'll be able to fill it, or even pay for it.
Even with their recent run of success, CCU has never made it past the quarterfinals in the FCS playoffs and don't bring the infrastructure or prestige Georgia Southern or Appalachian State did.
Even by Sun Belt standards, their academic profile is, ah, not great. If you care about that sort of thing.
South Carolina's recruiting base likely can handle a 3rd FBS team, but it's no Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, or Texas.


Neutral:


The teal field, which is both a unique recruiting pitch and one hell of an eyesore. Get off of my turf lawn.


Making the case for why Coastal Carolina should be higher than 7th: Haisten Willis, Managing Editor & Georgia Southern Beat Writer


Coastal Carolina has a ton of potential, and already shows signs of realizing it.


The Chanticleers perform very well on the football field as-is. They began play in 2003 and placed both a quarterback and running back in the NFL within five years of the first game. CCU remains an FCS powerhouse today, even though the postseason has been a struggle.


With the move to FBS and an expanding stadium, there's a ton to sell FBS recruits on building a new tradition and a winner, not to mention the obvious draw of Myrtle Beach. For anyone pointing to F_U and saying the beach doesn't matter, remember also that the entire state of South Carolina sports just two FBS programs at the moment, a far cry from some of the oversaturated football states around it.


I've actually been to a CCU game and remember walking by young tailgaters playing beer pong, partying and generally resembling a real college football atmosphere. This isn't (insert commuter school) who decided to shoot straight to FBS. Coastal has been around for 14 years, and they've done it well.


Lastly, the small stadium can be seen as a strength rather than a weakness. You want a full stadium, not a big one. Let's face it, the Sun Belt needs more dogs.
If you were playing NCAA football in an online dynasty...


You just said "screw it" and went with the one Sun Belt team that had an A+ rating in Campus Atmosphere for recruiting. You're hoping against all hope that one of the two Lee Corso lines the EA developers forgot to edit out was him in some misguided attempt to speak French yelling "CHANTICLEERS" at full volume instead.


You want the purest, most authentic party school experience while dominating your rivals on the field. In fact, it's so authentic that a pitcher of rum punch just appeared in your hands. Now you just drank it in one chug. Congratulations! That teal field seems like a normal color to you now.
If you choose this job in real life...


You either have an extremely keen interest in canine and feline cognitive functions and the fragility of screen doors or you're the chairman of TD Ameritrade.


No, seriously. I'm not making this up. Look it up.


Anyway, that's CCU's entire coaching history. Future coaching hires will likely be an up and comer with southeast connections or a washed up Power 5 coach who wants to keep coaching while emulating Steve Spurrier's regimen of endless rounds of golf whenever he's not maintaining his beach bod. Wait a minut--

Verdict


The Sun Belt has plenty of strangely fun schools to follow, but Coastal Carolina just might be the wackiest and most compelling story of them all. It has all the oddities of an FCS school trying to stand out but the ambitions for so much more. Yet is it possible to build a fanbase at a party school on the beach where college football is a relatively new affair?


Right now there's loads of potential and a short enough history to where any structural issues within the program could be swept away by a run of dominant winning seasons. But those structural issues could also turn it into another South Alabama 5 years in, albeit with a nicer stadium. CCU gets the nod above the 5 schools below them because of their potential upside, but they need to establish a successful FBS track record before becoming a top 5 Sun Belt job.
Best jobs in the Sun Belt countdown:


12. NMSU


11. Idaho


10. ULM


9. Georgia State


8. South Alabama


7. Coastal Carolina

[clenz]

Copy of an e-mail sent to, likely, everyone to every show any kind of interest in CCU - thanks MarkCCU for putting this out there for people to see


As you are probably aware, we have submitted our request for the Brooks Stadium expansion to the South Carolina Commission on Higher Education four different times, and at the latest presentation we were told that there are not enough private funds included with the request. While I am not going to express to you my personal opinion about the politics surrounding this project, I do think it is important that we, as a University, move forward with a determined resolve that we will get this done. Take my word for it; we will get this done!

We have committed to the Sun Belt Conference our start date of July 1, 2016, and this has not changed. Your board and the administration had every legal right, as per state statute and board by-laws, to accept the invitation from the Sun Belt, and we remain committed to moving this University to the next level both academically and athletically. While this may be a small bump in the road, we are committed to working with the CHE and the Joint Bond Review Committee to get this project approved.

The total project cost is $29.9 million with $2 million in upfront private donations. While only 6.7 percent of the upfront cost is being supported by private donations, close to 50 percent of the ongoing quarterly installment payments related to the bonds is being supported by recurring private donations. These private donations include support from the Chanticleer Athletic Foundation, athletic department revenue, suite ticket sales and other private donations. As a young University only 23 years old, we do not have the luxury of some of the bigger schools that have billion-dollar endowments or thousands and thousands of alumni waiting in line to throw money at anything we want to build before there is even a design. As such, we have always bonded out the necessary funds to construct a project, and then sold naming rights to the project after construction. This model has always worked, and we have a very strong track record in acquiring the funds on the back end.

However, the CHE made it loud and clear at our last presentation that until we can prove that we have the necessary private funding, we will continue to struggle in convincing a majority of commissioners to vote for our project. That’s where you, the stakeholders in CCU, need to get involved. What would it take to raise $5 million dollars for this cause? Sure, we could sit and wait on one wealthy donor to come in and cut us one big check, but realistically, that may not happen in time for us to be ready for the 2018 football season. That’s why I am appealing to everyone. If each of us could commit to some amount over the next 10 years, no doubt we could quickly raise $5 million. Look at it like this: It would take only 100 stakeholders to commit to contributing $5,000 per year for 10 years and we would have the $5 million. Or, if you could contribute more, I would ask that you join my wife Stacy and me and commit to naming something at the expanded stadium with a donation of $25,000, $50,000 or more.

This new football stadium expansion belongs to our local community. The economic impact of an additional 10,000 seats and playing better teams that travel in large numbers is immeasurable. We all need to get involved, and get involved now. If you would like to help, I ask that you contact Chris Johnson, executive director of the Chanticleer Athletic Foundation, at 843.349.2466 or [email protected], and sign a pledge for any amount you can. No amount is too small. But the longer we wait to provide the private funding that CHE is looking for, the longer the stadium expansion will be delayed. Without the expansion, we will not be able to reap the benefits of full Sun Belt membership and FBS football. Join me, your board of trustees and your administration in committing to moving our University to the next level.

Go Chants!

D. Wyatt Henderson CPA, CFF, CFE
Class of 1998
Board Chair, Coastal Carolina University


I can't believe he used $5,000 a year as a way to get people to go "Oh, yeah! I can't do that!".

The CHE isn't wrong in that since CCU is only 23 years old (as the e-mail pointed out) and doesn't have the built up money that other schools do it's stilly to just go "Here's all of the moneys". They need to show that they, as an institution, are capable of supporting themselves and having a lasting base that support them as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I say this without snark: let's see how this goes. If CCU can raise the money promptly and can demonstrate that their community can support the added costs of FBS, Godspeed.

[clenz]

To steal some posts I made on CS on the discussion there



I'm not in the CCU is dumb for doing this camp. I'm not in the they are going to fail camp. I am firmly in the "Holy **** this is really rushed and doesn't seem to be real well thought out and planed" camp.


Also, if only 1,300-2,000 are willing to fight for the stadium it really is proving the point that "Um...are you sure you have the fan base/alumni base, donors and existing money to make this move and pay for the stadium"


he thing is, the point he's making about how small the fan base, alumni base and endowment is makes him sound like a whiny little ****.

"THE STATE IS BEING MEAN AND NOT GIVING US MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF MONEY! WE CAN'T DO THIS VOLUNTARY MOVE THAT WILL COST TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON OUR OWN BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T PROVEN THAT OUR ALUMNI BASE CAN BUILD A SUSTAINABLE ENDOWMENT WHERE WE CAN ACTUALLY AFFORD THIS SO THEY SHOULD JUST GIVE US THE MONEY! NEVER MIND THAT IS ESSENTIALLY THE EXACT SAME TYPE OF THING THAT CAUSED THE HOUSING CRASH! QUIT BEING MEAN!"

I know what he's trying to accomplish but he's talking in circles, and to an outsider, is coming across pretty ****y.

[clenz]

Another post I made there with talking to MarkCCU


However, you have to see where the state is looking at it from and look at the very points that that e-mail points out. It's an extremely young school. It has a very small alumni base. It has a very small fan base. I'm assuming it has a very small donor base - only 1.1 million dollars donated during the 14-15 academic fiscal year.


Over 83% of the athletic budget is already subsidized - over $21.5m of the 25m budget. That's the 21st most subsidized program in the nation by %. The 20 schools worse at funding their AD than CCU, by % - NJIT, UC-Riverside, Chicago State, CCSU, UC-Northridge, Radford, UVU, UT-Rio Grand Valley, Longwood, UM-BC, Northern Kentucky, IUPUI, Morgan State, Kennesaw State (prefootball still), Morehead State, Deleware State, Norfolk State, UM-Kansas City, Maryland-Eastern Shore, TAMU-CC, CCU, Winthrop, UNC-Greensboro. That's not a good group to be with.


CCU's subsidy total, and %, isn't going to get better by adding 44 more scholarships, you know FCOA is also going to happen at the FBS level, and funding a stadium.


You can blame this on an overreaction to what happened with SCSU. That may be true to an extent. As an outsider looking in though I can completely understand where the CHE is coming from.

[rokamortis]

lol, another Idaho, in the making. Why would a school like CcU even make this move?? Good luck guys, you will defiantly be a "big deal"

I don't know if we will be a big deal or not, but we certainly know the difference between definitely and defiantly.