Coastal Carolina Joins Sun Belt

[RootinFerDukes]

Sorry to bump a somewhat old thread but I was curious as to whether Coastal is considered an FCS Independent in 2016 or are they still a Big South member in football for one more season? I know they still play Big South schools this year just to avoid last minute rescheduling for everyone.
I see in 2017 they're an FBS school with Sun Belt membership and schedule, just not bowl/postseason eligible. Bowl eligibility in 2018.

Second, looking at that attendance chart Clenz posted many pages back, I just have to say:

Akron had a 97% increase in attendance from one year to the next? BULL****. Did they host Ohio State? Then I might believe that.
All of those increased numbers, especially the 25%+ increases are highly questionable.

[kdinva]

Sorry to bump a somewhat old thread but I was curious as to whether Coastal is considered an FCS Independent......

Yes.......but no post season, as they are playing 12 games and a game on that Thanksgiving Saturday.......against a MEAC team (Hampton).

http://www.goccusports.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/coas-m-footbl-sched.html

[clenz]

Second, looking at that attendance chart Clenz posted many pages back, I just have to say:

Akron had a 97% increase in attendance from one year to the next? BULL****. Did they host Ohio State? Then I might believe that.
All of those increased numbers, especially the 25%+ increases are highly questionable.
they are but the tickets were sold. Plenty of ways to skirt attendance numbers.

FAU hosted Michigan State at Ford Field in Detroit a few years back.

Watch Akrons numbers this year, since it's a 2 year rolling period. They probably had a massive donor/company buy huge blocks of tickets at an incredible discount. Tickets are sold, doesn't matter if they are used. They can report them towards attendance. There are a couple things, around that number specifically, I will investigate when I get I front of a real computer and not just my phone. I have 3 suspicions as to how it was done but checking from my phone isn't an option

[Laker]

Maybe LeBron bought those Akron tickets. He could afford it.

It will be interesting to see how CCU reacts to this transition year since they can't be in the playoffs. But when it comes down to it- if you are a football player you want to win each week regardless. That is why you play football.

[RootinFerDukes]

Oh I know it's tickets sold reported at every school in the NCAA, across all divisions. The fact that a school can count a neutral site game in an area geographically closer to the P5 school they're playing as a home game is a joke. Neutral site games shouldn't count towards anyone's attendance numbers. I'm surprised they haven't started counting bowl games as their home games.
The tickets sold don't even need to be sold for any money, they can be comped for free and even go unused. Many of those 25k and under fbs schools are probably drawing half of their reported numbers. JMU is also guilty. We were 20k the last two years but it really feels like 10-15k most games.

[pokefan02]

You can count a game as a home game no matter if you are playing at the home field of your opponent. It is a home game when the tickets say so.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Hammersmith]

Oh I know it's tickets sold reported at every school in the NCAA, across all divisions. The fact that a school can count a neutral site game in an area geographically closer to the P5 school they're playing as a home game is a joke. Neutral site games shouldn't count towards anyone's attendance numbers. I'm surprised they haven't started counting bowl games as their home games.
The tickets sold don't even need to be sold for any money, they can be comped for free and even go unused. Many of those 25k and under fbs schools are probably drawing half of their reported numbers. JMU is also guilty. We were 20k the last two years but it really feels like 10-15k most games.

Free tickets only count if they are actually used. For an unused ticket to count, it must have been purchased at no less than one-third* the face price of the cheapest section. Of course there's nothing that says your university foundation can't buy the tickets with donations that were going to go to the athletic department anyway. Or that a local business can't buy them in return for advertising considerations.


*Memory says it's pretty sure it's one third. Didn't look it up to double check.

[jsnow84]

CCU will never get to 15K in attendance, unless they jury rig the count, which they most certainly will. This will go down as the worst decision the school has ever made. Bless their hearts.

[JSUSoutherner]

Sorry to bump a somewhat old thread but I was curious as to whether Coastal is considered an FCS Independent in 2016 or are they still a Big South member in football for one more season? I know they still play Big South schools this year just to avoid last minute rescheduling for everyone.
I see in 2017 they're an FBS school with Sun Belt membership and schedule, just not bowl/postseason eligible. Bowl eligibility in 2018.

Second, looking at that attendance chart Clenz posted many pages back, I just have to say:

Akron had a 97% increase in attendance from one year to the next? BULL****. Did they host Ohio State? Then I might believe that.
All of those increased numbers, especially the 25%+ increases are highly questionable.
97% is a stretch. However in the case of Akron, I imagine going from an average attendance of 7 to an average of 13 really skewed their percentages. :D


JSU enjoyed a 24.6% attendance bump this year. Would have probably been higher, in the 30-35% range had one of our games not been in the rain.


Good Luck to Coastal Carolina next season. Except when you guys come to Burgess, that day will be a bad one for you guys. xnodx

[tigonian02]

Maybe LeBron bought those Akron tickets. He could afford it.

It will be interesting to see how CCU reacts to this transition year since they can't be in the playoffs. But when it comes down to it- if you are a football player you want to win each week regardless. That is why you play football.

Coach Monken at Georgia Southern did a looooot of new play calling and testing during our transition year. He was attempting to incorporate different types of option plays into our flexbone scheme for when we made the full move up.

[RootinFerDukes]

Free tickets only count if they are actually used. For an unused ticket to count, it must have been purchased at no less than one-third* the face price of the cheapest section. Of course there's nothing that says your university foundation can't buy the tickets with donations that were going to go to the athletic department anyway. Or that a local business can't buy them in return for advertising considerations.


*Memory says it's pretty sure it's one third. Didn't look it up to double check.

Thanks. There's many ways to fudge your numbers and I read an article several years ago accusing Kent state of very cheaply selling tickets to Pepsi for additional advertising and the tickets all went unused when offered for free to Kent area residents. It still was counted in the attendance numbers all season. The article writer said a game's attendance stated 11k was the attendance but his estimate based on approximately how full the stadium looked put it at about 3k.

[GAD]

Oh I know it's tickets sold reported at every school in the NCAA, across all divisions. The fact that a school can count a neutral site game in an area geographically closer to the P5 school they're playing as a home game is a joke. Neutral site games shouldn't count towards anyone's attendance numbers. I'm surprised they haven't started counting bowl games as their home games.
The tickets sold don't even need to be sold for any money, they can be comped for free and even go unused. Many of those 25k and under fbs schools are probably drawing half of their reported numbers. JMU is also guilty. We were 20k the last two years but it really feels like 10-15k most games.
Why shouldn't neutral site games count towards your attendance? In some cases you may be playing a team that can't play you in your home stadium, and it might me your half of a home/home deal

[unknown3]

CCU will never get to 15K in attendance, unless they jury rig the count, which they most certainly will. This will go down as the worst decision the school has ever made. Bless their hearts.

Sounds like hopeful thinking on your part.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Fudged numbers have been the norm in the Slum Belch conference for as long as it's been a conference.

There was a great picture circulating amongst the Louisiana schools a few years ago showing about 150 fans on the visitor side of Cajun field, yet the official line was that there were 25,000 in attendance.

It's kinda like the Georgia State attendance numbers from a few years ago where photos of the damn near empty Georgia Dome showed there's no way that they were drawing the 15-18k that they were claiming. Apparently, the Ga. State posters thought it was possible for 12,000 people to be in the restrooms at the time those photos were taken...

If CCU has to fudge numbers, they'll fit right in.

In fact, I'll bet there's more than a few phone calls from Slum Belch SIDs to CCU making sure they know how to creatively report attendance....

The top three teams in the SlumBelch football conference are going to be Georgia Southern, App State and CCU next year....And CCU will be the top baseball team in the conference.

It's kinda sad, really....

[RootinFerDukes]

Why shouldn't neutral site games count towards your attendance? In some cases you may be playing a team that can't play you in your home stadium, and it might me your half of a home/home deal

Average home attendance is games played at home, on campus. A school in Florida getting credit for a "home game" played in Michigan against a school from Michigan is anything but a home game.
We played wvu at fed ex field in 2012 and that wasn't our home attendance. It may as well have been since we're closer to the venue than Morgantown is. I think it was a "home" game for wvu.

[GAD]

Average home attendance is games played at home, on campus. A school in Florida getting credit for a "home game" played in Michigan against a school from Michigan is anything but a home game.
We played wvu at fed ex field in 2012 and that wasn't our home attendance. It may as well have been since we're closer to the venue than Morgantown is. I think it was a "home" game for wvu.
Well in some cases we (Southern) use more than one stadium as our home the Superdome in New Orleans and Independence stadium in Shreveport. Texas Southern in Houston might use the Astrodome, NRG stadium or the University of Houstons stadium before they moved into their new stadium. I don't think a team should be penalized if they can sell more tickets than their stadium can hold.

[AshevilleApp2]

Welcome Coastal Carolina!

[MarkCCU]

CCU will never get to 15K in attendance, unless they jury rig the count, which they most certainly will. This will go down as the worst decision the school has ever made. Bless their hearts.

Never? Bless you're retarded heart

[JSUSoutherner]

Never? Bless you're retarded heart
*Your

[BisonFan02]

Never? Bless you're retarded heart


*Your


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmngJr6kG8Y

[tigonian02]

Fudged numbers have been the norm in the Slum Belch conference for as long as it's been a conference.

There was a great picture circulating amongst the Louisiana schools a few years ago showing about 150 fans on the visitor side of Cajun field, yet the official line was that there were 25,000 in attendance.

It's kinda like the Georgia State attendance numbers from a few years ago where photos of the damn near empty Georgia Dome showed there's no way that they were drawing the 15-18k that they were claiming. Apparently, the Ga. State posters thought it was possible for 12,000 people to be in the restrooms at the time those photos were taken...

If CCU has to fudge numbers, they'll fit right in.

In fact, I'll bet there's more than a few phone calls from Slum Belch SIDs to CCU making sure they know how to creatively report attendance....

The top three teams in the SlumBelch football conference are going to be Georgia Southern, App State and CCU next year....And CCU will be the top baseball team in the conference.

It's kinda sad, really....

What makes this sad? Now that the Sunbelt is sitting at 10 schools, and for all intents and purposes, I hope that Georgia Southern and App always fight for the top of our side of the conference (with CCU in there from time to time). StAte and ULL will likely be on the other side waiting for their A** Whooping. And now that we may be making more money than CUSA, they don't have the clout to take anymore teams from us (especially if they get raided again). All that means is that the conference is finally progressing. For years, the "markets" strategy has been bringing in schools that don't bring any actual competitive football value. That seems to have changed (at least for the Sunbelt) starting with the addition of GaSouthern and App State. We both were perennially near the top of the Socon in FCS (with Furman, Wofford, Chatty rotating in). Why wouldn't we move to another conference and compete immediately?

[mmiller_34]

What makes this sad? Now that the Sunbelt is sitting at 10 schools, and for all intents and purposes, I hope that Georgia Southern and App always fight for the top of our side of the conference (with CCU in there from time to time). StAte and ULL will likely be on the other side waiting for their A** Whooping. And now that we may be making more money than CUSA, they don't have the clout to take anymore teams from us (especially if they get raided again). All that means is that the conference is finally progressing. For years, the "markets" strategy has been bringing in schools that don't bring any actual competitive football value. That seems to have changed (at least for the Sunbelt) starting with the addition of GaSouthern and App State. We both were perennially near the top of the Socon in FCS (with Furman, Wofford, Chatty rotating in). Why wouldn't we move to another conference and compete immediately?

I wouldnt say sad. But what it proves is that since Georgia Southern and App State were immediately competitive in the Sun Belt, It validates every comment ever made on AGS that the cream of the crop in FCS is right there with the Sun Belt, competitively speaking.

[RootinFerDukes]

Taking it further, odu has been at least middle of the pack in cusa. It's proof that the bottom of fbs is really not much, if any better than the top of Fcs. Give the Fcs schools 22 more scholarships and it'll be even more apparent.

[AshevilleApp2]

Taking it further, odu has been at least middle of the pack in cusa. It's proof that the bottom of fbs is really not much, if any better than the top of Fcs. Give the Fcs schools 22 more scholarships and it'll be even more apparent.

Pay for the 22 extra scholarships and you'll be FBS. I don't think there has been much, if any, argument that the top level FCS programs could immediately be competitive at the G5 level. NDSU, Montana, JMU, NIU, etc., could all make the jump and compete immediately if they chose to. From observation over the last two seasons though, I've noticed that the lower level G5 teams are better than their counterparts at the FCS level. Bigger, faster, etc. Even the bad teams presented some problems for App.

[tigonian02]

Pay for the 22 extra scholarships and you'll be FBS. I don't think there has been much, if any, argument that the top level FCS programs could immediately be competitive at the G5 level. NDSU, Montana, JMU, NIU, etc., could all make the jump and compete immediately if they chose to. From observation over the last two seasons though, I've noticed that the lower level G5 teams are better than their counterparts at the FCS level. Bigger, faster, etc. Even the bad teams presented some problems for App.

This ^. The schools that are perennial top 15 teams in FCS likely won't have many years of struggling moving up to the G5. That being said, I don't think there will be opportunity to move up for quite some time now. Curious, where did The Citadel end up ranked in the Socon last year? They looked better than in years past.

[MarkCCU]

*Your

Oooh. A typo! Good catch. You got me. BURN!!!

[RootinFerDukes]

Many sbc fans said app and ga southern would have at least a five year adjustment period. You all dominate immediately. Odu beat at least half of their cusa slate immediately.
A bunch of message board confidence that never became a reality as the Fcs new comers quickly took over their conference.

[AshevilleApp2]

Many sbc fans said app and ga southern would have at least a five year adjustment period. You all dominate immediately. Odu beat at least half of their cusa slate immediately.
A bunch of message board confidence that never became a reality as the Fcs new comers quickly took over their conference.

Maybe on the Sunbelt Board, I don't know. But I really don't recall that here, or on CS. Mostly people either denigrating or extolling the moves. I'll grant you that several App and GSU fans behaved like asses before and during the transition period. That wasn't needed, particularly the cuts at the Southern Conference.

[tigonian02]

Many sbc fans said app and ga southern would have at least a five year adjustment period. You all dominate immediately. Odu beat at least half of their cusa slate immediately.
A bunch of message board confidence that never became a reality as the Fcs new comers quickly took over their conference.

I am on the Sunbelt board fairly often and I agree that during the transition most on that board were overly confident that we were gonna finish towards the bottom of the conference for a while. The old guard (especially Arkansas State and ULL) still have trouble accepting that a new sheriff and deputy have come in (although App still hasn't won the conference and we didn't get a chance to play AState). Much like the Socon (and most other conferences really) there are only going to be 3 or 4 teams that regularly compete for the conference title.

Old Dominion transferred to Cusa at a terrible time. Almost everyone who was really good left during their transition, and then were replaced with usually bad teams and upstarts. So they could be middle of the conference by beating any of Charlotte, the F_Us, North Texas, UTEP, UTSA.

[JSUSoutherner]

Oooh. A typo! Good catch. You got me. BURN!!!
I'll send you a bottle of Aloe Vera to help with the burning.

[MarkCCU]

I'll send you a bottle of Aloe Vera to help with the burning.

Thanks. I'll send a brush so you can get all that sand out....

[JSUSoutherner]

Thanks. I'll send a brush so you can get all that sand out....
You're so thoughtful. :D

[rokamortis]

Do tell.

No, seriously. Tell.


Ok, so this finally came to pass. The stadium expansion received the final approval today. Here's an article: http://wbtw.com/2016/08/23/22-9m-in-bonds-approved-for-ccu-stadium-expansion-project/

At the time I posted that there were alternative paths, there were a few I had been told about with this one being the least preferred, but our hands were tied. The CHE was unilaterally denying the request even with modifications by reducing budget and increasing private support. The main issue is they would not provide any guidance on what it would take for them to accept it, which pretty much means they wouldn't accept it unless we had all of the funds in hand.

So the general assembly wrote a proviso in the budget that allowed the request to bypass the CHE. It was vetoed by the Governor and then overridden by the SC house and senate. It still needed approval from the JRBC and the SFAA - it was approved by the JRBC in June and the SFAA today even against the strong objections of the governor. She's using this project and Coastal as the example of runaway higher education spending even though we recieve around 5% state funding and have some of the lowest tuition of 4-year schools.

The chair of the CHE is a former AD at Villanova. He is seen as an expert in FBS even though he was an AD for only a few short years and was in the position when Villanova decided not to go FBS. He tried to compare the expenses of Coastal going to the Sun Belt with Louisville going to the ACC. He's also a campaign contributor to Haley but I'm sure that had nothing to do with his appointment to the CHE.

[jsnow84]

Ok, so this finally came to pass. The stadium expansion received the final approval today. Here's an article: http://wbtw.com/2016/08/23/22-9m-in-bonds-approved-for-ccu-stadium-expansion-project/

At the time I posted that there were alternative paths, there were a few I had been told about with this one being the least preferred, but our hands were tied. The CHE was unilaterally denying the request even with modifications by reducing budget and increasing private support. The main issue is they would not provide any guidance on what it would take for them to accept it, which pretty much means they wouldn't accept it unless we had all of the funds in hand.

So the general assembly wrote a proviso in the budget that allowed the request to bypass the CHE. It was vetoed by the Governor and then overridden by the SC house and senate. It still needed approval from the JRBC and the SFAA - it was approved by the JRBC in June and the SFAA today even against the strong objections of the governor. She's using this project and Coastal as the example of runaway higher education spending even though we recieve around 5% state funding and have some of the lowest tuition of 4-year schools.

The chair of the CHE is a former AD at Villanova. He is seen as an expert in FBS even though he was an AD for only a few short years and was in the position when Villanova decided not to go FBS. He tried to compare the expenses of Coastal going to the Sun Belt with Louisville going to the ACC. He's also a campaign contributor to Haley but I'm sure that had nothing to do with his appointment to the CHE.

The funding for the stadium, is the least of CCU's worries. Trying to find fannies to go in those seats is going to be much more difficult. Bad decision for CCU to make the move to FBS at this time, but it is kinda hard to put toothpaste back in a tube. Good luck.

[RootinFerDukes]

Somehow I feel like some of the politics involved in trying to block ccu's progress is coming from gamecock and tiger supporters. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

[SENOREIDA]

Somehow I feel like some of the politics involved in trying to block ccu's progress is coming from gamecock and tiger supporters. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
In all honesty it was probably stemming from Charleston. They estimate 1/3 of SC schools will close in the next decade, this catapulates us to surviving, dooms other schools to death. This undermines the SoCon schools in the state, CofC, and CSU. We pissed off a lot of people doing this but oh well. We are the a school in the Independent Republic of Horry after all.

[walliver]

In all honesty it was probably stemming from Charleston. They estimate 1/3 of SC schools will close in the next decade, this catapulates us to surviving, dooms other schools to death. This undermines the SoCon schools in the state, CofC, and CSU. We pissed off a lot of people doing this but oh well. We are the a school in the Independent Republic of Horry after all.

I'm not aware of any SoCon schools threatened with closure in the next decade. CofC will be just fine as long as the Yankees keep coming south for school, as will CSU with it's Baptist niche.

I fail to see how a football stadium will ensure the success of CCU and the failure of the rest of the universe.

[RootinFerDukes]

Other than South Carolina state, I wasn't aware that other SC schools were struggling. In VA, the hbcu's Norfolk state and Virginia state are struggling along with the women's college sweet briar.
They're institutions that are struggling to attract new students to keep the lights on.

[BisonFan02]

Other than South Carolina state, I wasn't aware that other SC schools were struggling. In VA, the hbcu's Norfolk state and Virginia state are struggling along with the women's college sweet briar.
They're institutions that are struggling to attract new students to keep the lights on.

That noise you hear is a student loan bubble waiting to pop.

[rokamortis]

I'm not aware of any SoCon schools threatened with closure in the next decade. CofC will be just fine as long as the Yankees keep coming south for school, as will CSU with it's Baptist niche.

I fail to see how a football stadium will ensure the success of CCU and the failure of the rest of the universe.

It isn't just the stadium, but the move to FBS. We were stuck in FCS with nowhere to go since the SoCon and CAA wouldn't take us. The move to FBS helps put us with more similar, like-minded schools. It also helps expand our reach.

The failure of other schools is overstated. I don't think they meant 1/3 of the schools will actually close but rather be consolidated, similar to what is happening in GA. I think they may have been including technical schools in there as well. But as long as each school has their own board, the technical system is separate, and there is no strong central oversight board then it likely won't happen.

What the football stadium does is to help Coastal continue to grow and get stronger by allowing us to go FBS. We use athletics as one of our marketing tools and it seems to have been paying dividends. In the 10 years from 2005 to 2014 Coastal has grown 43% and will likely be the third largest school in SC within a few years. CofC is currently the 3rd largest but is constrained and have only grown 4.8%. Most of the remaining schools are under 5,000 FTE and haven't had much growth. SC State and Winthrop have actually decreased - SC State by 26% and Winthrop 2%. Clemson and SC are hurting everyone by growing about 30% each. I saw that our projection for this fall is 10,600 but that may be headcount and not FTE. We've also increased SAT scores of the incoming class as well as retention. We still have a lot of work to do, but the stadium and move to FBS will help us continue to improve in all areas - all while receiving a very low state appropriation and having some of the lowest tuition of 4-year schools.

Data source: http://www.che.sc.gov/CHE_Docs/finance/abstract/Abstract-2015-web.pdf

[Libertine]

Somehow I feel like some of the politics involved in trying to block ccu's progress is coming from gamecock and tiger supporters. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Actually, 60% of the state legislature is made up of Gamecock and Tiger alums and the state legislators -- as I read it anyway -- are the only reason this got done.

[walliver]

Actually, 60% of the state legislature is made up of Gamecock and Tiger alums and the state legislators -- as I read it anyway -- are the only reason this got done.

60% seems low, especially when you add in all the USC Law School grads.

I don't think Clemson cares at all. This year, they expect 25,000 applicants for about 4,000 freshman spots. There is also a feeling that Clemson preferentially admits out-of-state students.
USC still has the "we're in the SEC, so what if we admit everybody with a pulse attitude... We're in the SEC, goddammit" attitude. The Belt is not a threat.
The real opposition to CCU is from its peers, CofC and Winthrop. These two, along with USC-Upstate are also poorly funded by the state and competing for limited state money.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Somehow I feel like some of the politics involved in trying to block ccu's progress is coming from gamecock and tiger supporters. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Here's what is trying to block CCU's progress:

http://www.postandcourier.com/storyimage/CP/20160507/PC1603/160509460/AR/0/AR-160509460.jpg&maxw=800&q=90?ver=201605071055

She was actually unsuccessful in wrangling enough opposition to defend the CHE's proposal and that's why the funding went through.

[rokamortis]

60% seems low, especially when you add in all the USC Law School grads.

I don't think Clemson cares at all. This year, they expect 25,000 applicants for about 4,000 freshman spots. There is also a feeling that Clemson preferentially admits out-of-state students.
USC still has the "we're in the SEC, so what if we admit everybody with a pulse attitude... We're in the SEC, goddammit" attitude. The Belt is not a threat.
The real opposition to CCU is from its peers, CofC and Winthrop. These two, along with USC-Upstate are also poorly funded by the state and competing for limited state money.

Sadly, those three are all better funded than Coastal in relation to per student funding. CofC is a bit larger (about 10-15%) and has similar out of state student % but gets more than double the state appropriations.

If anything, I think the Charleston area schools, politicians, and chamber may be the ones fighting it the most. It was Charleston area politicians who fought the most to not override the governor's vetoes in the house and senate. The Charleston paper repeats the CHE's and Haley's rhetoric - praising Haley and the CHE while condemning Coastal and those that supported this project.

Coastal is on the verge of being the 3rd largest school in state - usurping CofC. MB and Charleston both want bowls. CofC's president is a former state senator and former lieutenant governor and served with Haley.

[Libertine]

60% seems low, especially when you add in all the USC Law School grads.

Nope. I went on the SC state legislature website and counted them one at a time. Also, I have no life.

If it matters, Coastal and Bob Jones University each have 3 alums in the legislature and CSU has 2.