Being Montana in the Big Sky IS tough...

[DuckDuckGriz]

Think about it

EVERY conference game in over a decade -- we have been the BIGGEST game on EVERY team's schedule in the conference. No question. So you can all claim how easy it must be to play in a "weak" conference, but imagine getting everyone's best week in and week out (not to mention the fact that they've beaten 3/4s of other CS Conferences too)

Also -- I wonder how different the Big Skys recent record in the playoffs would be if more teams other than Montana got to stay at home. I think the game in Bozeman this last week gives good indication.

[AppGuy04]

Well to Appalachian Football circa 2006

[AggiePride]

Nope, Suc State's biggest game is against us, so you're already wrong on one point. I am sure there are others...

[AZGrizFan]

Nope, Sac States biggest game is against us, so you're already wrong on one point. I am sure there are others...

Is Sac State in the BSC? ;) ;) ;) :D

[th0m]

Most teams in the A-10 circle their game with Delaware as well, even if they're not as good this/last year.

[DinoDex200]

Also -- I wonder how different the Big Skys recent record in the playoffs would be if more teams other than Montana got to stay at home. I think the game in Bozeman this last week gives good indication.

That's up to the members of the BSC...they could get conference home games if one of others would rise above the rest of the conference. It's not that it's weak, it's just that no one in the conference (other than Montana) can sustain success on a yearly basis...or throughout a season for that matter.

[DuckDuckGriz]

That's up to the members of the BSC...they could get conference home games if one of others would rise above the rest of the conference. It's not that it's weak, it's just that no one in the conference (other than Montana) can sustain success on a yearly basis...or throughout a season for that matter.

Okay so you're saying the only way a Big Sky team gets a home game is if they completely rise above the rest of the conference (like Montana did). Why then has the A-10 had a similar situation with three or four teams at the top of the conference but gotten home games-- when the Big Sky hasn't?

It doesn't matter how "good" the teams play. It's a polling thing. Say it with me. East. Coast. Biased. ;)

[AZGrizFan]

That's up to the members of the BSC...they could get conference home games if one of others would rise above the rest of the conference. It's not that it's weak, it's just that no one in the conference (other than Montana) can sustain success on a yearly basis...or throughout a season for that matter.

That's funny. That's the EXACT argument used AGAINST Montana and the BSC regarding league strength. So which is it? Would the BSC be somehow viewed as a "more difficult" conference if we had a rotating schedule of league champions? Gateway & A-10 points of pride are the NUMBER of different teams they've put into the playoffs. Look at the Gateway---YSU conference champs 2 years in a row. The two years before that---2-5. SIU conference champs two years in a row (03-04), before that, 2-5 and a glorious 1-6. Unsustained excellence. The worst kind. ;) ;) ;)

[griz37]

Nope, Suc State's biggest game is against us, so you're already wrong on one point. I am sure there are others...

Thats your opinion. Beating the Griz would mean a lot more nationally for the Hornets then a victory over UC Davis does.

[AggiePride]

Thats your opinion. Beating the Griz would mean a lot more nationally for the Hornets then a victory over UC Davis does.

Nope, you're wrong, sorry. Beating Davis is everything to their players, more than Montana. Ronbo was speaking specifically from that context and "playing up".

I don't care that you think Montana is better than sliced bread. And it makes me laugh you are arrogant enough to totally overlook rivarly games like this and proclaim yourselves the most important team on any teams schedule.

Lets look at another common opponent this year.. Cal Poly. Again this is another team that would not have you at the top of the list. With I-A's, NDSU and another rivarly game with us, your just another big game. Not the biggest.

I fully expect Davis to mean just as much "nationally" as Montana in the near future anyways.

Soooo :p.. Get off your high horse.

[GRZZ]

Not to mention they play in the Big Sky Conference. You are certainly their main rival, but winning the conference is their ultimate goal and to do that they need to beat Montana.

[GRZZ]

Nope, you're wrong. Beating Davis is everything to their players, more than Montana. Ronbo was speaking specifically from that context.

I fully expect Davis to mean just as much "nationally" in the future anyways.

Soooo :p
You are looking at it through your rivalry glasses, which I completely understand. There is always pressure to beat your rival from fans, administrators and boosters, but if you were to ask the Sac St. coach at the start of the season if he had one win against either UM of the Aggies he would take the UM win in a heartbeat. That would mean their program was actually becoming legitimate in the BSC. They have never beat us, it would be a huge win.

[*****]

... Why then has the A-10 had a similar situation with three or four teams at the top of the conference but gotten home games-- when the Big Sky hasn't?
It doesn't matter how "good" the teams play. It's a polling thing. Say it with me. East. Coast. Biased. ;)Opening round 2006...
A-10 home playoff games = 1
Big Sky home playoff games = 2

Say it with me. Western. Paranoid. :nod:

[AggiePride]

You are looking at it through your rivalry glasses, which I completely understand. There is always pressure to beat your rival from fans, administrators and boosters, but if you were to ask the Sac St. coach at the start of the season if he had one win against either UM of the Aggies he would take the UM win in a heartbeat. That would mean their program was actually becoming legitimate in the BSC. They have never beat us, it would be a huge win.

Again, I think the players are more pumped for our game.

Stop avoiding the topic with what the coach would say in some press conference or other off-topic stuff.

Even the one fan Suc State has on AGS (GCM) only visits to give us UCD fans crap. 12 of 14 and 7 straight really kills them.

[Peems]

Opening round 2006...
A-10 home playoff games = 1
Big Sky home playoff games = 2

Say it with me. Western. Paranoid. :nod:

well actually those other a-10 games were still played out east. but i understand seeing as the two "western" teams got two home games.

[chiapet9]

Okay so you're saying the only way a Big Sky team gets a home game is if they completely rise above the rest of the conference (like Montana did). Why then has the A-10 had a similar situation with three or four teams at the top of the conference but gotten home games-- when the Big Sky hasn't?

It doesn't matter how "good" the teams play. It's a polling thing. Say it with me. East. Coast. Biased. ;)


are you SERIOUSLY WHINING about how hard it is to be Montana because you're just THAT GOOD? :bang: first of all - the A-10, the SoCon, the Gateway (can't believe I'm actually going to defend the Gateway) are all around deep conferences...they're good teams that beat up on each other all season long - coming out of the A-10 with an undefeated record is insane and UMass barely made it this season with an undefeated record and had 5 games with a point margin of 10 points or less (and 3 of those 5 were one possession games) and 4 of those 5 teams didn't make it to the post-season (Maine was the only team close to it). When you're in a conference that has fairly evenly matched teams, you get years where three teams share the conference title (A-10 in 2004, Gateway 2005). Teams beat the crap out of each other - even though UMass went undefeated in the A-10 this year, I still think there are 3 or 4 other teams that could legitimately compete with them and beat them on any given saturday.

not only is the Big Sky NOT the #1 conference (I can't believe there is a thread on that subject AND one on this subject, but...I digress)...stop whining about how hard it is being Montana.


oh yeah....and say this with me. JMU. on the road. EVERYTIME.

p.s. - Monte is my hero.:hurray:

[APPSTER]

What we're talking about here is which conferences have a higher percentage of schools that have made a serious commitment to football and have good programs. These programs might miss the playoffs every so often, but they're never down for long. Is anyone seriously going to say that Montana has a better program or has more of a commitment to winning than Georgia Southern? Since GSU was 3-8 does that cancel out their history of excellence?

The only team anyone thinks of when they think of the Big Sky is Montana. This is due to a combination of their excellence and commitment to winning AND due to lack of same for every other school in that conference.

If MSU whips Appalachian this week and starts giving Montana a real challenge in the Big Sky from here on out, then maybe there can be 2 schools people think of when they think of the Big Sky - but for now, its only Montana. Same goes for PSU and NAU.

The beauty of the CS playoffs, though, is it doesn't matter if the best team comes from a weak conference - if you win it all, nobody can say anything.

But..... trying to argue that you're the best team AND are in the best conference when there is absolutely nothing to back it up.....rediculous.

[Grizo406]

Even the one fan Suc State has on AGS (GCM) only visits to give us UCD fans crap. 12 of 14 and 7 straight really kills them.

I think you meant Sac State, but I could be wrong...silly me. Anyway, nice job on the 12 of 14, and 7 straight. That's some rivalry!

[DuckDuckGriz]

What we're talking about here is which conferences have a higher percentage of schools that have made a serious commitment to football and have good programs. These programs might miss the playoffs every so often, but they're never down for long. Is anyone seriously going to say that Montana has a better program or has more of a commitment to winning than Georgia Southern? Since GSU was 3-8 does that cancel out their history of excellence?

The only team anyone thinks of when they think of the Big Sky is Montana. This is due to a combination of their excellence and commitment to winning AND due to lack of same for every other school in that conference.

If MSU whips Appalachian this week and starts giving Montana a real challenge in the Big Sky from here on out, then maybe there can be 2 schools people think of when they think of the Big Sky - but for now, its only Montana. Same goes for PSU and NAU.

The beauty of the CS playoffs, though, is it doesn't matter if the best team comes from a weak conference - if you win it all, nobody can say anything.

But..... trying to argue that you're the best team AND are in the best conference when there is absolutely nothing to back it up.....rediculous.

What do you think MSU has been doing for the last 5 years??!!!:bang:

[*****]

well actually those other a-10 games were still played out east...As is nearly every game in the CS. If you think east coast bias is something unnatural you might note that about 80% of the CS is east of the Mississippi.

[CamelCityYosef]

Think about it

EVERY conference game in over a decade -- we have been the BIGGEST game on EVERY team's schedule in the conference. No question. So you can all claim how easy it must be to play in a "weak" conference, but imagine getting everyone's best week in and week out (not to mention the fact that they've beaten 3/4s of other CS Conferences too)


bwess your wittle heart...:rolleyes:

[APPSTER]

What do you think MSU has been doing for the last 5 years??!!!:bang:

You've made my point!:thumbsup: Every strong conference has at least 3 schools that could win their conference in any given year. All you can come up with is "what MSU has done for the last 5 years?"

The fact is that Montana is never seriously challenged by more than one team in the Big Sky in any given year (and challenged by no teams in most).

[twentythreeOh4]

Opening round 2006...
A-10 home playoff games = 1
Big Sky home playoff games = 2

Say it with me. Western. Paranoid. :nod:

Okay Ralph. Besides Montana name the last Big Sky team to get a home playoff game in the first round. Hint: I believe you have to go back to 1997 to find it.

Now compare the first round home playoff games of the A-10 in the same period.

[chiapet9]

Okay Ralph. Besides Montana name the last Big Sky team to get a home playoff game in the first round. Hint: I believe you have to go back to 1997 to find it.

Now compare the first round home playoff games of the A-10 in the same period.


what does that have to do with anything? home playoff games are about money unless you're the top 4. and quit whining - you got 2 home first round game this year. a-10 and socon just got 1.

[MCCat]

The funniest part of all this is the short term memories of the Griz fans. They are the recipients of the "perfect storm" that made their program what it is today, a short 15 years ago! Denny Washington, Don Read, and Dave Dickenson made that program what it is today and they all came together at the same time...a few years before the "Big 3" came along they were lucky to draw 7,000 to a home game, they had never won a national title, in anything, and they were second fiddle to MSU...winners of 3 Football National Championships, one in basketball, a handful in rodeo, and a few in skiing.

Now, the Griz deserve credit for keeping it rolling for the last 15 years, and improving it to the unparrelled level they have in FCS, and MSU is attempting to scratch their way up to their level...and I'm really wishing we could have a big benefactor like Denny come along!:bow:

[BisonBacker]

There is no arguing you have a good team but man you need to let some of that air out of your head. xlolx

[Hells Bells]

anygivensunday:

with the excaption for this year we have been in the running for the big sky championship since 1997. thanks for not recognising us as a power in the big sky, we prefer to fly under the radar:

Eastern Washington Fans and athletes.

[chiapet9]

anygivensunday:

with the excaption for this year we have been in the running for the big sky championship since 1997. thanks for not recognising us as a power in the big sky, we prefer to fly under the radar:

Eastern Washington Fans and athletes.



saturday. we play on SATURDAY. :smiley_wi

[Hells Bells]

oops...that is why i dont post and program at the same time folks

[touchdown]

as far as the hc goes beating montana is more important to sac state then uc davis is, but to the fans or administartion it is davis, that is why sac state is so f****up!
THE bSC is a great conference, they had 5 teams that were playoff caliber, but beat each other up so they only get 2, if they were in 1a they would have had 4 bowl teams and a 5th that if they didnt overschedule and ad any monetary support would have been in also (Montana, Msu,Psu,Nau, Sac) say what you want but the AD at Sac is the biggest idiot that ever lived!
ask any BSC coach and Sac was on the verge of being an upper division squad!

[DuckDuckGriz]

The funniest part of all this is the short term memories of the Griz fans. They are the recipients of the "perfect storm" that made their program what it is today, a short 15 years ago! Denny Washington, Don Read, and Dave Dickenson made that program what it is today and they all came together at the same time...a few years before the "Big 3" came along they were lucky to draw 7,000 to a home game, they had never won a national title, in anything, and they were second fiddle to MSU...winners of 3 Football National Championships, one in basketball, a handful in rodeo, and a few in skiing.

Now, the Griz deserve credit for keeping it rolling for the last 15 years, and improving it to the unparrelled level they have in FCS, and MSU is attempting to scratch their way up to their level...and I'm really wishing we could have a big benefactor like Denny come along!:bow:

Hey. Here are Griz fans sticking up for the Cats and the rest of the conference. Congrats on your skiing titles. xidiotx

[DuckDuckGriz]

You've made my point!:thumbsup: Every strong conference has at least 3 schools that could win their conference in any given year. All you can come up with is "what MSU has done for the last 5 years?"

The fact is that Montana is never seriously challenged by more than one team in the Big Sky in any given year (and challenged by no teams in most).

Ignorance is bliss I guess. :rolleyes:

Eastern Wash won in `97.
In 1998 the conference was a tie between Montana, MSU, and Cal State Northridge with the Griz getting the autobid.
In 2002 it was a tie between Montana and Montana State, with MSU getting the auto-bid
In 2003 was a three way tie between Idaho State, Montana State, and Montana - with MSU getting the auto-bid and UM, NAU, and MSU all in the playoffs -- NAU knocking off #1 McNeese on the road.
In 2004 it was a tie between EWU & Montana with Montana getting the auto-bid.
In 2005 it was a tie between MSU, EWU, and Montana with EWU getting the auto-bid.

So -- 2006 was the first time the Griz have won the title outright since 2001.

[GrizDen]

DDG - you just saved me a ton of time on research because I was thinking of the same thing.

[89Hen]

Also -- I wonder how different the Big Skys recent record in the playoffs would be if more teams other than Montana got to stay at home. I think the game in Bozeman this last week gives good indication.
Not so sure about that. Didn't EWU and NAU both win their first round games on the road only to lose at home the next week? It's obviously a big advantage for the Griz as you are 0-3 on the road in the playoffs during your 14 year streak. :eyebrow:

Speaking from the A10 since 1998, JMU won all three on the road in 2004 and UMass won two road games in 1998. Maine has also won at McNeese and AppSt and had to then go to Statesboro and Cedar Falls. UMass and Hofstra both won at Furman and then had to go Statesboro the next week.

That should answer your pondering pretty well. No doubt Montana and Delaware do have a huge advantage at home in the playoffs but the A10 has had to go to as many unfriendly places as the BSC, but has come away with some wins.

[APPSTER]

Ignorance is bliss I guess. :rolleyes:

Eastern Wash won in `97.
In 1998 the conference was a tie between Montana, MSU, and Cal State Northridge with the Griz getting the autobid.
In 2002 it was a tie between Montana and Montana State, with MSU getting the auto-bid
In 2003 was a three way tie between Idaho State, Montana State, and Montana - with MSU getting the auto-bid and UM, NAU, and MSU all in the playoffs -- NAU knocking off #1 McNeese on the road.
In 2004 it was a tie between EWU & Montana with Montana getting the auto-bid.
In 2005 it was a tie between MSU, EWU, and Montana with EWU getting the auto-bid.

So -- 2006 was the first time the Griz have won the title outright since 2001.

You're still making my point.....no combination of teams in the Big Sky is ever good enough to beat UM and keep them out of the playoffs (or from sharing the conference title). Again, this is due to a combination of great UM teams and a weaker conference. When was the last time that UM was not the favorite to win the Big Sky? If it was all due to UM being the best team in CS year in and year out, the Big Sky wouldn't have a sub .500 record in the first round of the playoffs over the last 10 years- and UM would have spent more time in Chatty.

A great conference is one where a good team does not make the playoffs.

Your streak of 14 in a row is impressive, your conference isn't.

[BillLuc1982]

Hmm, put Indiana State in the Big Sky. I wonder if they'd treat Montana as their biggest game or just hope to win 1 or 2 games. xlolx

[mlbowl]

Not so sure about that. Didn't EWU and NAU both win their first round games on the road only to lose at home the next week? It's obviously a big advantage for the Griz as you are 0-3 on the road in the playoffs during your 14 year streak. :eyebrow:

Speaking from the A10 since 1998, JMU won all three on the road in 2004 and UMass won two road games in 1998. Maine has also won at McNeese and AppSt and had to then go to Statesboro and Cedar Falls. UMass and Hofstra both won at Furman and then had to go Statesboro the next week.

That should answer your pondering pretty well. No doubt Montana and Delaware do have a huge advantage at home in the playoffs but the A10 has had to go to as many unfriendly places as the BSC, but has come away with some wins.

I believe we have wins at Marshall and Chatty;)

[AZGrizFan]

You're still making my point.....no combination of teams in the Big Sky is ever good enough to beat UM and keep them out of the playoffs (or from sharing the conference title). Again, this is due to a combination of great UM teams and a weaker conference. When was the last time that UM was not the favorite to win the Big Sky? If it was all due to UM being the best team in CS year in and year out, the Big Sky wouldn't have a sub .500 record in the first round of the playoffs over the last 10 years- and UM would have spent more time in Chatty.

A great conference is one where a good team does not make the playoffs.

Your streak of 14 in a row is impressive, your conference isn't.

The only reason he's still "making your point" in your mind, is because apparently your point keeps changing.

Originally posted by Apster:

Every strong conference has at least 3 schools that could win their conference in any given year

DDG has posted proof that the same is true in the BSC. The fact that ONE of those three teams happens to be Montana every year shouldn't penalize Montana. 5 times in the past 8 years, UM has shared the conference title with one or more teams. And in three of those years, UM did NOT win the autobid.

Originally posted by Apster:

The fact is that Montana is never seriously challenged by more than one team in the Big Sky in any given year (and challenged by no teams in most).

DDG has posted proof that directly contradicts that statement. Four different teams (so that's 5 of the 8 conference members) have won or shared the title with UM in the past 8 years.

And the BSC DID meet your definition of a great conference...we has PSU this year NOT make the playoffs.

So, NOW whats your point? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[DuckDuckGriz]

Exactly. How can you say that the Big Sky doesn't have 3 teams that could win every year - when literally that's happened every year since `01?

[AZGrizFan]

Exactly. How can you say that the Big Sky doesn't have 3 teams that could win every year - when literally that's happened every year since `01?


I'm just waiting for Apster's point to change again.

[ChickenMan]

Records of Big Sky members over the past three years...

MSU... 20-15

PSU... 20-13

EWU... 19-17

ISU... 10-23

Weber... 11-22

Sac St... 9-24

UNC... 7-26

Montana... 30-8

[GannonFan]

Records of Big Sky members over the past three years...

MSU... 20-15

PSU... 20-13

EWU... 19-17

ISU... 10-23

Weber... 11-22

Sac St... 9-24

UNC... 7-26

Montana... 30-8

Yeah, but they circle the Montana games! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

And it's not like these have been all-world Montana teams - the Griz went 3-3 in the playoffs over the past 3 years including 2 years of first round exits, at home no less.

[BillLuc1982]

Yeah, but they circle the Montana games! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

And it's not like these have been all-world Montana teams - the Griz went 3-3 in the playoffs over the past 3 years including 2 years of first round exits, at home no less.

And one came from YSU, one I had doubts about YSU winning

[Cleets]

Cal Poly. Again this is another team that would not have you at the top of the list. With I-A's, NDSU and another rivarly game with us, your just another big game. Not the biggest.


Nope,
You're wrong, Cal Poly Quarter Back said when interviewed Montan was their most important game this year...It's on the record, quoted...


But frankly I couldn't give a damn either way....

[AZGrizFan]

Records of Big Sky members over the past three years...

MSU... 20-15

PSU... 20-13

EWU... 19-17

ISU... 10-23

Weber... 11-22

Sac St... 9-24

UNC... 7-26

Montana... 30-8

Record of A-10 members over the past three years:

UMass 23-10
Delaware 20-15
William & Mary 19-17
Richmond 18-17
Maine 16-17
Towson 16-17
Villanova 16-17
Northeastern 12-21
Rhode Island 12-21


New Hampshire 30-8
JMU 29-8

Your point? :confused: :confused: :confused:

In a league half again as large (# of teams), still only TWO stand out year after year. Two good teams, one decent team, one average team and 8 patsies. BSC = 1 good team, two decent teams, one average team and 4 patsies. Sounds about the right distribution, hmmmm?

[BillLuc1982]

Gateway only has 2 patsies, used to have 3 when S. Ill. was a patsy

[ucdtim17]

Nope,
You're wrong, Cal Poly Quarter Back said when interviewed Montan was their most important game this year...It's on the record, quoted...


But frankly I couldn't give a damn either way....


I hate grammar police as much as anyone but c'mon man - Quarter Back?? You had to hit space and then capitalize the B. I would expect it from a Sac poster or some other such school, but that H on the helmet stands for Harvard right?

[ucdtim17]

Nope,
You're wrong, Cal Poly Quarter Back said when interviewed Montan was their most important game this year...It's on the record, quoted...


But frankly I couldn't give a damn either way....


And despite what you think you remember the quarterback saying, the only CP teams that get their team picture posted in the weight room are the ones that beat Davis. We are the big game

[Peems]

its tough being in the big sky... if you are the other membersxlolx

[AZGrizFan]

Gateway only has 2 patsies, used to have 3 when S. Ill. was a patsy

Let's see:

YSU 21-12 (3 wins against Slippery Rock, but we'll count 'em anyway)
SIU 27-9 (playing the likes of Lockhaven, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Union & William Penn)
ISU 19-14 (wins over Central Arkansas, Drake, and Xavier)
UNI 25-12 (Drake 2x, Minnesota Duluth, Minnesota State-Mankato)
Western Ky 21-13 (the likes of Chattanooga, West Virginia Tech, Concord, Fl Int'l)
Western Ill 14-19 (need I go on?)
Missouri St 12-20
Indiana St 5-28

Looks like 3 patsies and a bunch of padded victory counts to me. Where do you find these schools to play? About the only one on UM's schedule would be Ft Lewis last year. Wait, PSU padded their schedule with 3 I-A's and NAU with 2 this year. ;) ;) :D

[BillLuc1982]

Let's see:

YSU 21-12 (3 wins against Slippery Rock, but we'll count 'em anyway)
SIU 27-9 (playing the likes of Lockhaven, Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Union & William Penn)
ISU 19-14 (wins over Central Arkansas, Drake, and Xavier)
UNI 25-12 (Drake 2x, Minnesota Duluth, Minnesota State-Mankato)
Western Ky 21-13 (the likes of Chattanooga, West Virginia Tech, Concord, Fl Int'l)
Western Ill 14-19 (need I go on?)
Missouri St 12-20
Indiana St 5-28

Looks like 3 patsies and a bunch of padded victory counts to me. Where do you find these schools to play? About the only one on UM's schedule would be Ft Lewis last year. Wait, PSU padded their schedule with 3 I-A's and NAU with 2 this year. ;) ;) :D

A lot of schools are afraid to play YSU

[AZGrizFan]

A lot of schools are afraid to play YSU

Nice. Can UM use that excuse too? :D

[BillLuc1982]

Nice. Can UM use that excuse too? :D

Which schools won't play UM? Akron and Kent (I-A) don't like to play us. Non-scholly Dayton won't either (that's why we have played SRU the past 3 yrs). I'm sure there are many more.

[GannonFan]

Record of A-10 members over the past three years:

UMass 23-10
Delaware 20-15
William & Mary 19-17
Richmond 18-17
Maine 16-17
Towson 16-17
Villanova 16-17
Northeastern 12-21
Rhode Island 12-21


New Hampshire 30-8
JMU 29-8

Your point? :confused: :confused: :confused:

In a league half again as large (# of teams), still only TWO stand out year after year. Two good teams, one decent team, one average team and 8 patsies. BSC = 1 good team, two decent teams, one average team and 4 patsies. Sounds about the right distribution, hmmmm?

How are you doing your math? The Big Sky has 4 teams out of 8 (leaving UNC out of the discussion since they just joined) that are well under .500. The A10 has 2. The other A10's (the 6 of the 8 that you call patsies) all hover around .500. Kinda liberal with the patsy definition there, wouldn't you say? And again, of those "patsies", they also include teams who have won games in the post season during that time - 6 teams from the A10 have won playoff games during that time and 4 have made the quarters or better (5 if UMass beats UNH as expected this weekend). No way can you spin the BSC to get to equivalent numbers. :nono:

[ChickenMan]

Record of A-10 members over the past three years:

UMass 23-10
Delaware 20-15
William & Mary 19-17
Richmond 18-17
Maine 16-17
Towson 16-17
Villanova 16-17
Northeastern 12-21
Rhode Island 12-21

New Hampshire 30-8
JMU 29-8




MSU... 20-15

PSU... 20-13

EWU... 19-17

ISU... 10-23

Weber... 11-22

Sac St... 9-24

UNC... 7-26

Montana... 30-8




Looks to me that the 'worst' two schools in the A10... URI and N'eastern both have more wins (12) than half of the Big Sky members over the same period... :p

[AZGrizFan]

How are you doing your math? The Big Sky has 4 teams out of 8 (leaving UNC out of the discussion since they just joined) that are well under .500. The A10 has 2. The other A10's (the 6 of the 8 that you call patsies) all hover around .500. Kinda liberal with the patsy definition there, wouldn't you say? And again, of those "patsies", they also include teams who have won games in the post season during that time - 6 teams from the A10 have won playoff games during that time and 4 have made the quarters or better (5 if UMass beats UNH as expected this weekend). No way can you spin the BSC to get to equivalent numbers. :nono:

The fact that the patsies beat EACH OTHER every other year doesn't disqualify them from being patsies. But I will agree on one point: BSC perennial patsies (UNC & Sac State) are MUCH worse than A-10 or Gateway patsies.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't UMass and UNH BOTH in the A-10?

[GannonFan]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't UMass and UNH BOTH in the A-10?

Nope, you're right, it's just tough having this many good teams! Being a Big Sky guy, I know that's a concept hard to fathom! ;)

[Cleets]

Nope, you're right, it's just tough having this many good teams! Being a Big Sky guy, I know that's a concept hard to fathom! ;)

Hey,
Gannon Fan

I owe you a great big apology, I was kind of an ASS on the whole, teams not in the play-offs and you casting votes for North Dakota...

I totally disagree with you, but I still need to be respectful
Sorry about that...

[AlphaSigMD]

A lot of schools are afraid to play YSU


ASU also has problems getting good games. Wake Forest backed out of their 6 year agreement with us after a couple of stunning losses. Duke and UNC flat out refuse, because they know they can't take us down.

Also, it would seem most of the rest of the FCS is afraid as well...i seem to remember ASU contacting EVERY FCS team in the country trying to get a game this season...but instead we had to play Mars Hill? Northwestern State backed out of a deal with us last year as well...

Maybe ASU and Montana should play home and home every year...call it the AlphaSig Bowl and have the victoria secret angels come in for a halftime pillow fight. Hell, it could probably even make the thursday night game on ESPN2...

[Peems]

ASU also has problems getting good games. Wake Forest backed out of their 6 year agreement with us after a couple of stunning losses. Duke and UNC flat out refuse, because they know they can't take us down.

Also, it would seem most of the rest of the FCS is afraid as well...i seem to remember ASU contacting EVERY FCS team in the country trying to get a game this season...but instead we had to play Mars Hill? Northwestern State backed out of a deal with us last year as well...

Maybe ASU and Montana should play home and home every year...call it the AlphaSig Bowl and have the victoria secret angels come in for a halftime pillow fight. Hell, it could probably even make the thursday night game on ESPN2...

things might change in a couple of years with Butch Davis at the helm now.

[Cleets]

things might change in a couple of years with Butch Davis at the helm now.

Do you think Butch Davis will get Larry Coker back as an assistant...

[Gordon Shumway]

Nope, you're right, it's just tough having this many good teams! Being a Big Sky guy, I know that's a concept hard to fathom! ;)

Gannon....You are selling the A10 short. Of the 6 different teams in the playoffs the last 3 years (2004-2006), all 6 have made it to the quarterfinals or better at least once, regardless of the UNH/UMass outcome.

[SactoHornetFan]

Nope, you're wrong, sorry. Beating Davis is everything to their players, more than Montana. Ronbo was speaking specifically from that context and "playing up".

I don't care that you think Montana is better than sliced bread. And it makes me laugh you are arrogant enough to totally overlook rivarly games like this and proclaim yourselves the most important team on any teams schedule.

Lets look at another common opponent this year.. Cal Poly. Again this is another team that would not have you at the top of the list. With I-A's, NDSU and another rivarly game with us, your just another big game. Not the biggest.

I fully expect Davis to mean just as much "nationally" as Montana in the near future anyways.

Soooo :p.. Get off your high horse.

The 2 teams I want to beat at this current point is always the Mustangs located in the People's Republic of davis-sucks!!! and Montana (only because we have not beat you yet and we should have if Ray didn't make that pitch :bang: )

So both of you are right!

[mtgrizfan4life]

Great thread, but honestly to God there is no way to prove what conference is best. Regardless of sport or level, from HS to the pros, conference opponents always play one another tougher than out of conference opponents. The reasons for this are many, mainly being familiarity with coaching tendencies and player abilities. The fact is that Montana has consistently made adjustments from year to year to win the BSC. This is not easy at any level for any sport. The arguements of any conference being weak every year are ridiculous.

Any top dog in any conference is always THE TEAM other conference teams get up for more than others. Recent history indicates that has been MT in the BSC. Other programs can also say that in their conferences, such as YSU, GSU, Applachian State, UD, Furman. Even in down years for those programs, conference teams motivate their teams more by "kicking them when they are down" mentality.

Teams like Poly, Davis, NDSU are the up and coming programs soon to be in this class too. All of you can argue on this topic as long as you want. Just like a fight with your wife or girlfriend, sometimes it is best to just agree to disagree. This is an arguement that cannot be won. Feel free to continue wasting your time and efforts. Sorry there is not a winner. The only winner every year is the one that brings home the trophy. I am proud that the GRIZ have been part of this process for what seem like forever!!!!!!! GO GRIZ and CATS!!!!!!!

[AlphaSigMD]

things might change in a couple of years with Butch Davis at the helm now.

He couldn't turn around the browns...UNC has proven itself to be a basketball school only. Mack Brown left for the greener pastures of Bevo country, and Torbush...well, he just made me smile.

Q: What could Matt Doherty do in 3 years that Mack Brown never could?

A: Turn Carolina into a football school.

http://espn.go.com/media/ncb/2000/0712/photo/a_doherty.jpg

[Peems]

He couldn't turn around the browns...UNC has proven itself to be a basketball school only. Mack Brown left for the greener pastures of Bevo country, and Torbush...well, he just made me smile.

Q: What could Matt Doherty do in 3 years that Mack Brown never could?

A: Turn Carolina into a football school.

http://espn.go.com/media/ncb/2000/0712/photo/a_doherty.jpg

didnt he actually lead the browns to a playoff appearance? also some coaches are just not cut out for the NFL: Steve Spurrier, Pete Carroll. I think it will take a while but i can see UNC becoming a little respectable, like when they had Curry and Peppers on the team. (funny how they were both on the basketball team too)

[89Hen]

I believe we have wins at Marshall and Chatty;)
You were probably listed as the home team. :p

[89Hen]

William & Mary 19-17
Richmond 18-17
Maine 16-17
Towson 16-17
Villanova 16-17
Hofstra 14-19
Northeastern 12-21
Rhode Island 12-21[/B]

Two good teams, one decent team, one average team and 8 patsies. BSC = 1 good team, two decent teams, one average team and 4 patsies. Sounds about the right distribution, hmmmm?
xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx Damned yourself on that one AZ. If you're counting 8 patsies for the A10 that means the rest of the BSC beyond Montana are patsies... wait, that sounds about right. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[AZGrizFan]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx Damned yourself on that one AZ. If you're counting 8 patsies for the A10 that means the rest of the BSC beyond Montana are patsies... wait, that sounds about right. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

so now 20-13 (PSU) = 19-17 (Bill & Mary)? :confused: :confused:

[AZGrizFan]

Nope, you're right, it's just tough having this many good teams! Being a Big Sky guy, I know that's a concept hard to fathom! ;)

I guess my point was that no matter WHO wins, it'll be 5. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[89Hen]

so now 20-13 (PSU) = 19-17 (Bill & Mary)? :confused: :confused:
Well, both have 19 Division I wins, W&M advanced to the National Semifinals where they lost to a fellow A10 team and PSU hasn't been to the playoffs since their 49-19 pasting to Delaware in 2000... I guess they're not equal.. seems like W&M is better. :p

[AZGrizFan]

Well, both have 19 Division I wins, W&M advanced to the National Semifinals where they lost to a fellow A10 team and PSU hasn't been to the playoffs since their 49-19 pasting to Delaware in 2000... I guess they're not equal.. seems like W&M is better. :p

One year wonders. :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eyebrow: ;)

[ChickenMan]

One year wonders. :eyebrow: :eyebrow: :eyebrow: ;)

considering the fact the W&M has been to the playoffs seven times and PSU only once... maybe you should rephrase that comment to be 'one year wonder'... ;)

[AZGrizFan]

considering the fact the W&M has been to the playoffs seven times and PSU only once... maybe you should rephrase that comment to be 'one year wonder'... ;)

I meant that by looking at their record over the last three years.....

I'll say whatever I want! Gosh!!! :eyebrow: ;)

[ChickenMan]

I meant that by looking at their record over the last three years.....

I'll say whatever I want! Gosh!!! :eyebrow: ;)

Of course you can say whatever you want... but it would be nice have some 'facts' to support those comments...

three years ago W&M was in the Semi's... PSU was where...???

;)

[BillLuc1982]

didnt he actually lead the browns to a playoff appearance? also some coaches are just not cut out for the NFL: Steve Spurrier, Pete Carroll. I think it will take a while but i can see UNC becoming a little respectable, like when they had Curry and Peppers on the team. (funny how they were both on the basketball team too)

Hell will freeze before the Browns make it to the Super Bowl. He did lead the Browns to the playoffs, only to lose to the Steelers!

:anim_chai

[89Hen]

I'll say whatever I want! Gosh!!! :eyebrow: ;)
http://www.hedonistica.com/archives/vote_pedro.jpg

AZGriz and Tod

[AZGrizFan]

http://www.hedonistica.com/archives/vote_pedro.jpg

AZGriz and Tod

89Hen, come eat some dinner, you fat lard! :eyebrow: xcoffeex

[OrneryAggie]

89Hen, come eat some dinner, you fat lard! :eyebrow: xcoffeex


xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

I was thinking how stupid I was for reading thru this whole thread then I found the punch line. Made my day.

[AZGrizFan]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

I was thinking how stupid I was for reading thru this whole thread then I found the punch line. Made my day.

Vote for AZGrizFan and all your wildest dreams will come true. :eek:

Or Vote for Summer, so we don't have to eat chimmychangas every day for lunch. xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx

[NC Aggie]

Nope,
You're wrong, Cal Poly Quarter Back said when interviewed Montan was their most important game this year...It's on the record, quoted...


But frankly I couldn't give a damn either way....

Maybe his perpective... but the cow-college rivalry has been going on a long time and fills the stands..

[HensRock]

As is nearly every game in the CS. If you think east coast bias is something unnatural you might note that about 80% of the CS is east of the Mississippi.

Right Ralph!

Is the East really biased?

Here are a few stats for you:

65 Teams (More than HALF) of the CS are in states which border the Atlactic Ocean. That does not include the Gulf of Mexico, just Maine to Florida plus DC.

40 Teams (1/3 of the CS) are East of Richmond, VA.

36 Teams lie North and East of Washington, DC (in a region approximately half the area of the state of Montana).

If you were to draw a line North-South through the U.S to divide the CS where half of the CS was to the west of the line, and half was to east, that line would run through Jacksonville, FL. Jacksonville is on the Atlantic coast.

http://www.gohens.net/images/I-AAMapNE2006.jpg

[GrizDen]

[QUOTE=HensRock]Right Ralph!

Is the East really biased?

Here are a few stats for you:

65 Teams (More than HALF) of the CS are in states which border the Atlactic Ocean. That does not include the Gulf of Mexico, just Maine to Florida plus DC.

40 Teams (1/3 of the CS) are East of Richmond, VA.

36 Teams lie North and East of Washington, DC (in a region approximately half the area of the state of Montana).


Solid Geography lesson Professor HensRock:thumbsup:

[CamelCityYosef]

36 Teams lie North and East of Washington, DC (in a region approximately half the area of the state of Montana).


Ummm, does anyone need to point out the fact that the described area is where the most people are? And that's why there's more schools there?

Just curious...

[Peems]

Ummm, does anyone need to point out the fact that the described area is where the most people are? And that's why there's more schools there?

Just curious...

HensRock know what he is talking about he is from PA:thumbsup:

[APPSTER]

I'm just waiting for Apster's point to change again.

Hey Nitz, its APPSTER.....
The name of this thread is "Being Montana in the Big Sky IS Tough". Its up to you guys to prove that and by any objective definition - you have not. You guys have gone to the playoffs 14 straight years - by what definition is that "tough"? You think "tough" is getting everyone's best shot? Are you kidding? How can you guys say that visiting teams don't stand a chance in WaGriz and then say you're getting everyone's best shot?

Tough - and fans from the power CS conferences can all attest to this - is when you have to win a must game to make the playoffs and you don't - you lose a squeaker in overtime, etc. and don't make the playoffs even though you had a good team. That is what tough is......

Again, your program is great - your conference is not.

[AZGrizFan]

Hey Nitz, its APPSTER.....
The name of this thread is "Being Montana in the Big Sky IS Tough". Its up to you guys to prove that and by any objective definition - you have not. You guys have gone to the playoffs 14 straight years - by what definition is that "tough"? You think "tough" is getting everyone's best shot? Are you kidding? How can you guys say that visiting teams don't stand a chance in WaGriz and then say you're getting everyone's best shot?

Tough - and fans from the power CS conferences can all attest to this - is when you have to win a must game to make the playoffs and you don't - you lose a squeaker in overtime, etc. and don't make the playoffs even though you had a good team. That is what tough is......

Again, your program is great - your conference is not.


Absolutely hilarious. The point has changed again. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: DuckDuckGriz, are you listening?

I see. Sustained success now = Conference must be a pushover.

Do App State foes in KB Stadium give App State their best shot? Or do they just fold the tent and go home because the game is being played at the venerable Kidd Brewer Stadium? App State fans can think opponents don't have a chance in KB, and that's OK, but when Griz fans think it about Wa-Griz, we must not be getting everyone's best shot...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ..:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

By my definition, you defined "tough luck". If you have a must win game, and DON'T win it to get in, I question just how good of a team you had to begin with.

You make it sound as if the BSC is the MEAC of the West. Yet, our second place team just ROLLED your conference's second place team. What gives? Oh wait, that's because poor FU got the shaft and had to fly to Siberia to play a *****ing football game. WAFJ. ;) ;) :eyebrow: :eyebrow: xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

[GrizDen]

Ummm, does anyone need to point out the fact that the described area is where the most people are? And that's why there's more schools there?

Just curious...


I'm a visual learner CamelCityYosef. The map that was included in the post help drive home the point xcoffeex

[*****]

every picture tells a story don't it?

[Peems]

every picture tells a story don't it?

also as that map says 91 schools are East of the Mississippi.

[APPSTER]

Absolutely hilarious. The point has changed again. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: DuckDuckGriz, are you listening?

I see. Sustained success now = Conference must be a pushover.

Do App State foes in KB Stadium give App State their best shot? Or do they just fold the tent and go home because the game is being played at the venerable Kidd Brewer Stadium? App State fans can think opponents don't have a chance in KB, and that's OK, but when Griz fans think it about Wa-Griz, we must not be getting everyone's best shot...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ..:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

By my definition, you defined "tough luck". If you have a must win game, and DON'T win it to get in, I question just how good of a team you had to begin with.

You make it sound as if the BSC is the MEAC of the West. Yet, our second place team just ROLLED your conference's second place team. What gives? Oh wait, that's because poor FU got the shaft and had to fly to Siberia to play a *****ing football game. WAFJ. ;) ;) :eyebrow: :eyebrow: xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex xcoffeex

Dude, calm down. (and with the language...oh my) Again, the thread is about how tough it is for UM in the Big Skyand its up to you guys to make your case and you have not. I didn't say anything about KBS or Furman or the Southern Conference. You're telling me to stay on point? Sheez!

I didn't say it was easy for UM or that your conference was like the MEAC. The Big Sky is a good conference., but it isn't the best conference in the CS.

To your point about "tough luck" - you're right - the difference is that other conferences have a few teams that need that last win to get in.

When the Big Sky gets to a point where UM is not a lock for the playoffs due to the strength of other teams, then maybe you can claim you play in the best conference. Right now, however, you don't.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Here are the teams that I think have the biggest bulls eyes on their chest because of a long and fairly consistant winning record.

1. GSU
2. Montana
3. Appalahcian State
4. Youngstown State
5. Furman

The fact that three of these teams are in the Socon means that not everyone's eyes will always be on one team. Montana is alone in the Big Sky on this list and the BSC has improved in the last 6 years or so. I think they've done well to make it through these past couple of seasons with the records they have had. Also, UM has (for geographic reasons I guess) scheduled some tough OOC games with Great West teams that are eager to establish themselves in IAA.

To be fair though, I think this year in the Socon everyone's cross-hairs were on App State. I know ours were. Also, App State has three rivals in the Socon whereas UM has only one team that could be considered in the same respect. Those games can always derail you even if you are better than the other team (see GSU versus App State this year).

All of us big boys do have to deal with being someone's game of the year, If I had to pick, I'd say that overall UM has it the worst as of right now.

[psc2445]

Here are the teams that I think have the biggest bulls eyes on their chest because of a long and fairly consistant winning record.

1. GSU
2. Montana
3. Appalahcian State
4. Youngstown State
5. Furman

The fact that three of these teams are in the Socon means that not everyone's eyes will always be on one team. Montana is alone in the Big Sky on this list and the BSC has improved in the last 6 years or so. I think they've done well to make it through these past couple of seasons with the records they have had. Also, UM has (for geographic reasons I guess) scheduled some tough OOC games with Great West teams that are eager to establish themselves in IAA.

To be fair though, I think this year in the Socon everyone's cross-hairs were on App State. I know ours were. Also, App State has three rivals in the Socon whereas UM has only one team that could be considered in the same respect. Those games can always derail you even if you are better than the other team (see GSU versus App State this year).

All of us big boys do have to deal with being someone's game of the year, If I had to pick, I'd say that overall UM has it the worst as of right now.
:hurray:

[AZGrizFan]

Here are the teams that I think have the biggest bulls eyes on their chest because of a long and fairly consistant winning record.

1. GSU
2. Montana
3. Appalahcian State
4. Youngstown State
5. Furman

The fact that three of these teams are in the Socon means that not everyone's eyes will always be on one team. Montana is alone in the Big Sky on this list and the BSC has improved in the last 6 years or so. I think they've done well to make it through these past couple of seasons with the records they have had. Also, UM has (for geographic reasons I guess) scheduled some tough OOC games with Great West teams that are eager to establish themselves in IAA.

To be fair though, I think this year in the Socon everyone's cross-hairs were on App State. I know ours were. Also, App State has three rivals in the Socon whereas UM has only one team that could be considered in the same respect. Those games can always derail you even if you are better than the other team (see GSU versus App State this year).

All of us big boys do have to deal with being someone's game of the year, If I had to pick, I'd say that overall UM has it the worst as of right now.


Agreed in general. Although I'd say EWU might be getting close to MSU...

[Cleets]

Ummm, does anyone need to point out the fact that the described area is where the most people are? And that's why there's more schools there?

Just curious...


Regardless of where the people are, schools west of the Illinois Tennessee line (drawn north to south) are for the most part considered "second rate"

Again,
it's not about where the people are it's about how the schools are "regarded" in the 1-AA class system
I’m not losing sleep over it

[ChickenMan]

Here are the teams that I think have the biggest bulls eyes on their chest because of a long and fairly consistant winning record.

1. GSU
2. Montana
3. Appalahcian State
4. Youngstown State
5. Furman




Even though they have been mediocre for the past two seasons... Delaware has to be included in any such group... they are by far... the team that A10 members target most each year.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Even though they have been mediocre for the past two seasons... Delaware has to be included in any such group... they are by far... the team that A10 members target most each year.

I knew I was missing someone...Delaware may go below App State. UNI might go at the bottom of this list as well.