NDSU offering FCOA to all scholarship athletes starting in 2016-2017

[Professor Chaos]

http://www.inforum.com/sports/3826039-pay-play-ndsu-latest-school-provide-cost-attendance-all-scholarship-athletes


It's an estimated $600,000 to $700,000 bill that will be covered with external fundraising, said NDSU athletic director Matt Larsen. The NCAA-approved cost-of-attendance-based scholarship is money for student-athlete expenses beyond tuition, fees, room, board and books. In NDSU's case, a full-scholarship athlete will receive $3,400 per year to do as they wish—a figure set by the school's financial aid office.
.
.
.
The Bison have 192 athletes on athletic scholarship this year, but not all are on a full ride in its 16 athletic programs. In those cases, the cost of attendance would be equivalent to the amount of the scholarship. So if a student was on a half scholarship, he or she would receive $1,700. Because the school is offering cost of attendance across the board, there are no Title IX concerns, Larsen said.

Larsen, starting his second year at NDSU, said the athletic department has already received "significant" donations to pay for it. Asked if he's confident the remaining funds will be raised, he said, "one of the things I've said since day one is you never underestimate our fan base and the people who support the program."


As far as I know NDSU joins Liberty as the only school sponsoring FCS football to do this for all sports. I'd say this ups the ante for everyone in the MVFC and the Summit League for that matter. It will be interesting to see who follows suit.

[LeopardBall10]

I think everyone knew this was probably coming, but the real interesting part is going to be who tries to keep up with the Joneses. I would also be interested to know how the financial aid off came up with the $3,400. Is that based off of estimated travel costs from home for the athletes? What other expenses were taken into account? Does anyone know if the NCAA is going to require an accounting of the FCOA stipends to make sure that money is not being given frivolously?

[Thundar]

This made my game week even better.....Love it!!!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://images.rapgenius.com/9adcfd1592472decdc7bc213ff79ceb9.500x218x15.gif

[Libertine]

xthumbsupx

[AmsterBison]

I think everyone knew this was probably coming, but the real interesting part is going to be who tries to keep up with the Joneses. I would also be interested to know how the financial aid off came up with the $3,400. Is that based off of estimated travel costs from home for the athletes? What other expenses were taken into account? Does anyone know if the NCAA is going to require an accounting of the FCOA stipends to make sure that money is not being given frivolously?

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/12185230/power-5-conferences-pass-cost-attendance-measure-ncaa-autonomy-begins

From the article above, "Stipends, determined by institutions under federally created guidelines, have been estimated at $2,000 to $4,000 annually."

Hammersmith dug something up about this not too long ago, but it appears that universities were doing this calculation before FCOA came up.

[Original_Siouxperfan]

I think everyone knew this was probably coming, but the real interesting part is going to be who tries to keep up with the Joneses. I would also be interested to know how the financial aid off came up with the $3,400. Is that based off of estimated travel costs from home for the athletes? What other expenses were taken into account? Does anyone know if the NCAA is going to require an accounting of the FCOA stipends to make sure that money is not being given frivolously?

Congress has dictated for years that every school must provide COA numbers for financial aid reasons. These amounts have nothing to do with athletics. The $3,400 is what NDSU projects the typical student will spend for personal expenses and transportation for a full school year. The process is fairly simple. In NDSU's case, they are giving out stipends equal to the scholarship received (full scholarship = full stipend, half scholarship = half stipend ($1,700)). The student-athlete will receive their stipend like any other scholarship/financial aid item for each semester as long as they are academically eligible, and would be free to spend as they see fit. No accounting (auditing) is necessary; if a student-athlete spends this amount frivolously, then it would be assumed that the student-athlete will have to cut spending in other areas of student life.

[AmsterBison]

Congress has dictated for years that every school must provide COA numbers for financial aid reasons. These amounts have nothing to do with athletics. The $3,400 is what NDSU projects the typical student will spend for personal expenses and transportation for a full school year. The process is fairly simple. In NDSU's case, they are giving out stipends equal to the scholarship received (full scholarship = full stipend, half scholarship = half stipend ($1,700)). The student-athlete will receive their stipend like any other scholarship/financial aid item for each semester as long as they are academically eligible, and would be free to spend as they see fit. No accounting (auditing) is necessary; if a student-athlete spends this amount frivolously, then it would be assumed that the student-athlete will have to cut spending in other areas of student life.

Is it true that UND pegged cost of attendance at over $6000?

[Original_Siouxperfan]

Is it true that UND pegged cost of attendance at over $6000?

I'm very surprised to find out that this may be accurate. According to COLLEGEdata, NDSU has other expenses of $3,670, while UND has other expenses of $6,400. I'm not sure if these amounts match the COA, but I would presume that they are very similar.

If accurate, this would mean that UND is at a huge disadvantage in offering full COA stipends in all sports.

[walliver]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/12185230/power-5-conferences-pass-cost-attendance-measure-ncaa-autonomy-begins

From the article above, "Stipends, determined by institutions under federally created guidelines, have been estimated at $2,000 to $4,000 annually."

Hammersmith dug something up about this not too long ago, but it appears that universities were doing this calculation before FCOA came up.

These are supposedly objective numbers developed under federal guidelines. Interestingly, when Alabama decided to offer full FCOA to athletes, their FCOA number doubled. I'm sure it is just a coincidence.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm shocked.... SHOCKED that the FCOA race has begun in FCS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

These are supposedly objective numbers developed under federal guidelines. Interestingly, when Alabama decided to offer full FCOA to athletes, their FCOA number doubled. I'm sure it is just a coincidence.

The reason who FCOA numbers were lower before was that it originally was simply an academic number that was to be communicated to students who, you know, actually have to pay tuition. Now that these numbers represent checks to be paid to athletes.... shocker!... the number grows! Not to mention it can be used as a recruiting tool between schools.

Gee. Nobody saw this coming!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'm shocked.... SHOCKED that the FCOA race has begun in FCS.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--RjQ9uI3m--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/g18mpxb55i6ahqm55ri1.jpg

[AmsterBison]

I'm very surprised to find out that this may be accurate. According to COLLEGEdata, NDSU has other expenses of $3,670, while UND has other expenses of $6,400. I'm not sure if these amounts match the COA, but I would presume that they are very similar.

If accurate, this would mean that UND is at a huge disadvantage in offering full COA stipends in all sports.

Actually, if those numbers are accurate, it's a huge advantage. UND would not be forced to offer FCOA - they could offer half. However, UND would have the flexibility to offer double what NDSU does if they so chose. But NDSU doesn't have a hockey team so it probably won't come into play.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Actually, if those numbers are accurate, it's a huge advantage. UND would not be forced to offer FCOA - they could offer half. However, UND would have the flexibility to offer double what NDSU does.

Except a recruit trying to decide between UND and another school would wonder why it costs 3 grand more to go there and how they can afford that.

[Hambone]

Actually, if those numbers are accurate, it's a huge advantage. UND would not be forced to offer FCOA - they could offer half. However, UND would have the flexibility to offer double what NDSU does if they so chose. But NDSU doesn't have a hockey team so it probably won't come into play.

Kind of seems like you could look at it either way. Disadvantage based on the costs that you may have to spend, but an advantage to offer more. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

For the SDSU folk - with the IPF and stadium renovations and what not, what do you feel the appetite of the school is to follow suit? I feel that SDSU will do what they can to do so, but wonder if they really want to spend as much with everything else going on.

[Jackal]

Kind of seems like you could look at it either way. Disadvantage based on the costs that you may have to spend, but an advantage to offer more. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

For the SDSU folk - with the IPF and stadium renovations and what not, what do you feel the appetite of the school is to follow suit? I feel that SDSU will do what they can to do so, but wonder if they really want to spend as much with everything else going on.
IMO, SDSU will probably offer FCOA in mens and womens basketball only. As you mentioned, there is a large sucking sound coming from the general direction of our new football stadium. I think our AD is going to take the dreaded wait and see approach on the other sports.

[LeopardBall10]

My auditing comment earlier was not intended toward the student athletes and how they spend the money, but rather toward the COA calculations. Like some commentators mentioned, these numbers seem to be changing at the will of the schools. I understand that COA numbers have been mandated for years, but who checks those numbers for accuracy? Is there anything stopping an Alabama from doubling their COA every time another school tries to pay their athletes more? Is there anything stopping a conference from colluding and coming up with a "standard" COA to level the playing field?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My auditing comment earlier was not intended toward the student athletes and how they spend the money, but rather toward the COA calculations. Like some commentators mentioned, these numbers seem to be changing at the will of the schools. I understand that COA numbers have been mandated for years, but who checks those numbers for accuracy? Is there anything stopping an Alabama from doubling their COA every time another school tries to pay their athletes more? Is there anything stopping a conference from colluding and coming up with a "standard" COA to level the playing field?

The short answer: No. The longer answer: It is a number figured out by the schools and then gets added to a boatload of official data as to the total cost of going to that particular college/university. Adding to that FCOA number might make it look relatively more expensive for a regular student to attend the school if you're looking at places like US News and World Report.

But essentially, it is a number created by the schools for whatever agenda they would like to push. There isn't much oversight and zero punishment for "fudging" this number.

[gumby013]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FXQ4cLw_gU

[IBleedYellow]

Hell yeah! So glad to see we're leading the way in FCS for working on bettering our student athletes, University and State as a whole!

[Thundar]

Hell yeah! So glad to see we're leading the way in FCS for working on bettering our student athletes, University and State as a whole!

to be fair we are not leading, Liberty set the bar

[IBleedYellow]

to be fair we are not leading, Liberty set the bar
Leading as in at the front.

We are leading.

[344Johnson]

Hell yeah! So glad to see we're leading the way in FCS for working on bettering our student athletes, University and State as a whole!

How does this better the state?

[IBleedYellow]

How does this better the state?

Brings in higher talent, and not all of them are going NFL/CFL, etc. with that hopefully they enjoy the State, and more great workers will stay in the State, having a more qualified workforce.

That said, you're a ****ing troll and I have no reason to reply to you from here on out.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hell yeah! So glad to see we're leading the way in FCS for working on bettering our student athletes, University and State as a whole!

HEY.... KOOL AID!!

xhomerx

[344Johnson]

Brings in higher talent, and not all of them are going NFL/CFL, etc. with that hopefully they enjoy the State, and more great workers will stay in the State, having a more qualified workforce.

That said, you're a ****ing troll and I have no reason to reply to you from here on out.

Yeah I don't see how that argument holds even an ounce of water. The team will still consist of 63 scholarships split at most amongst 85(i think?) players. Many of whom will not go to the NFL/CFL, and being a better football player really doesn't make you a more qualified member of the workforce.

Feel free to cry about an opinion different than yours.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I'm shocked.... SHOCKED that the FCOA race has begun in FCS.


I'm not. NDSU indicated months ago that they would do this.

Schools that can financially do it will.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Yeah I don't see how that argument holds even an ounce of water. The team will still consist of 63 scholarships split at most amongst 85(i think?) players. Many of whom will not go to the NFL/CFL, and being a better football player really doesn't make you a more qualified member of the workforce.

Feel free to cry about an opinion different than yours.



NDSU might be able to get that FBS recruit that is on the fence or a very good FCS recruit that many other FCS schools want. The COA stipend might be the final factor in a kid deciding to come to NDSU over a school not offering the stipend.

[344Johnson]

NDSU might be able to get that FBS recruit that is on the fence or a very good FCS recruit that many other FCS schools want. The COA stipend might be the final factor in a kid deciding to come to NDSU over a school not offering the stipend.

Right, I have zero disagreement in that area.

[KPSUL]

When Liberty announced, I didn't get too concerned. I just "considered the source". I don't understand this universal enthusiasm from NDSU fans. You guys were winning without opening this can of worms. I don't see this as a plus for FCS football.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

When Liberty announced, I didn't get too concerned. I just "considered the source". I don't understand this universal enthusiasm from NDSU fans. You guys were winning without opening this can of worms. I don't see this as a plus for FCS football.



If a school has the resources then why not.

[dewey]

If a school has the resources then why not.

I completely agree that if a school can do it then they should. IMHO it would give you an advantage against another school for recruiting.

Dewey

[IBleedYellow]

When Liberty announced, I didn't get too concerned. I just "considered the source". I don't understand this universal enthusiasm from NDSU fans. You guys were winning without opening this can of worms. I don't see this as a plus for FCS football.

Because you want every competitive (legally) advantage that you can. If you aren't bettering your program, you are going the wrong way.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Because you want every competitive (legally) advantage that you can. If you aren't bettering your program, you are going the wrong way.

exactly.

It's not about gaining the advantage, it's about KEEPING the advantage

[JayJ79]

I think that the FCS, or at least the FCS conferences should adopt a rule disallowing CoA stipends for football.
The whole reason for having a seperate subdivision is cost containment and this is counterintuitive to that notion.

I would have to think that most ADs/administrators at FCS schools are not looking forward to having to fund these extra expenses, so why not take a vote and create a level playing field.

[IBleedYellow]

I think that the FCS, or at least the FCS conferences should adopt a rule disallowing CoA stipends for football.
The whole reason for having a seperate subdivision is cost containment and this is counterintuitive to that notion.

I would have to think that most ADs/administrators at FCS schools are not looking forward to having to fund these extra expenses, so why not take a vote and create a level playing field.

This sounds just like DII before we left. Everyone wanted to cut scholarships, since not everyone could afford to fully fund them at the higher levels to begin with minus a few of the top teams.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I think that the FCS, or at least the FCS conferences should adopt a rule disallowing CoA stipends for football.
The whole reason for having a seperate subdivision is cost containment and this is counterintuitive to that notion.

I would have to think that most ADs/administrators at FCS schools are not looking forward to having to fund these extra expenses, so why not take a vote and create a level playing field.

Bull****!

If the rest of the Valley or FCS doesn't do it then fine.

If UNI can do it then they should. Farley should really love this news.

[Daytripper]

https://media.giphy.com/media/KekzimlYjn4vS/giphy.gif

[goyotes]

Per Jeremy Hoeck's, who covers USD for the Yankton Press & Dakotan, Twitter account:

"USD A.D. David Herbster, on cost of attendance: "We will do it," but waiting to see how best to implement it. Not rushing timeline. David Herbster: USD's cost of attendance at last check would be in $4,100/4,200 neighborhood. "Every campus is different."

My comment is that it would be a safe bet that SDSU will also offer FCOA.

[Mattymc727]

Damn it NDSU, will you just go FBS already...

[IBleedYellow]

https://media.giphy.com/media/KekzimlYjn4vS/giphy.gif

FCOA, or conferences saying you can't do FCOA?



Damn it NDSU, will you just go FBS already...

1. We can't just go FBS.

2. No.

[clenz]

This sounds just like DII before we left. Everyone wanted to cut scholarships, since not everyone could afford to fully fund them at the higher levels to begin with minus a few of the top teams.
I don't think anyone, especially Jay in this situation, is saying cut scholarships.

What he is saying, and he has a fairly valid point, is that FCS was created to be a subdivision focused less on the rat race that is what the P5 is/has become. Everything the FCS was created for seems completely counter-intuitive to what FCOA is/was created for.

I'm not sure how I feel about FCOA at the FCS level to be 100% honest.

I get it though. If you can why not? I completely understand it.

[Missingnumber7]

When Liberty announced, I didn't get too concerned. I just "considered the source". I don't understand this universal enthusiasm from NDSU fans. You guys were winning without opening this can of worms. I don't see this as a plus for FCS football.

I see this as the opportunity to get that tweener kid that was looking at a G5 school that we wouldn't have even had a chance at if we didn't offer FCOA. My thought is that FCS needs to identify more with FBS than with DII. This is a step in the proper direction.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I don't think anyone, especially Jay in this situation, is saying cut scholarships.

What he is saying, and he has a fairly valid point, is that FCS was created to be a subdivision focused less on the rat race that is what the P5 is/has become. Everything the FCS was created for seems completely counter-intuitive to what FCOA is/was created for.

I'm not sure how I feel about FCOA at the FCS level to be 100% honest.

I get it though. If you can why not? I completely understand it.

The difference between Ben Jacobson's and Dave Richman's salary is basically the budget for FCOA at NDSU.

[nel360]

Isn't the whole FCOA really about the kids, playing college sports these days is a 24/7 prospect. They have no time for a job for some extra spending money. It will help enhance their college experience right?

[IBleedYellow]

The difference between Ben Jacobson's and Dave Richman's salary is basically the budget for FCOA at NDSU.


Both of them will be funded privately.

It shows you the level of commitment that UNI has to basketball, and NDSU has to the athletic department. I'm sure if UNI wanted they could do FCOA, but they'd have to dig deep.

EDIT: I believe Jacobson's salary is privately funded, I remember Clenz posting something about it, if I'm incorrect I'll change it. Either way, they love their basketball at UNI (which isn't a bad thing at all!)

[Daytripper]

Because you want every competitive (legally) advantage that you can. If you aren't bettering your program, you are going the wrong way.


Easy for a state flagship school to say..... Most FCS schools are lower on state funding and athletic pecking order than NDSU.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Both of them will be funded privately.

It shows you the level of commitment that UNI has to basketball, and NDSU has to the athletic department. I'm sure if UNI wanted they could do FCOA, but they'd have to dig deep.

EDIT: I believe Jacobson's salary is privately funded, I remember Clenz posting something about it, if I'm incorrect I'll change it. Either way, they love their basketball at UNI (which isn't a bad thing at all!)

Right but my point is they can't scream about breaking the bank in football when they do exactly that in basketball.

[344Johnson]

Isn't the whole FCOA really about the kids, playing college sports these days is a 24/7 prospect. They have no time for a job for some extra spending money. It will help enhance their college experience right?

They say it's about the kids.... I don't really believe it though.

[centennial]

Welcome to P5, G5 situation in the FCS. **** just got real. It's insane to think that NDSU won't do everything to keep the advantage. We have gotten millions of dollars in free advertising from ESPN. This is a way of keeping it. Fair or not.

[clenz]

EDIT: I believe Jacobson's salary is privately funded, I remember Clenz posting something about it, if I'm incorrect I'll change it. Either way, they love their basketball at UNI (which isn't a bad thing at all!)
Right but my point is they can't scream about breaking the bank in football when they do exactly that in basketball.
I don't know exactly how much UNI actually pays for Jake's salary but it wouldn't be anymore than his base salary in 2008 (I believe), which was $159k. Every single penny of his multipe new contract revisions since then have been 100% privately funded. That means UNI donors are already shelling out ~700k per year, give or take $100k, for his salary at this point....that's if the new contract maintained UNI paying him what they were before the new contract...and I'm not sure it is. At this point I think all $900k-$1M of his contract is 100% private funded...could be wrong though.

UNI will get to FCOA but it will be a matter of finding the donor base for it. It is already in affect at UNI this year for men's basketball, women's basketball and volleyball. Troy Dannen was intereviewed 2 or 3 weeks ago and stated it would be over $500k for FCA at UNI, IIRC.

It likely won't happen next year but I won't be shocked if the money for it appears by the following year.

[clenz]

Right but my point is they can't scream about breaking the bank in football when they do exactly that in basketball.
Who's screaming about breaking the bank?


Also, your stance on FCOA when it comes to NDSU is very Republican/capitalist of you. What about helping those who need to be helped and making sure every program gets a "living/sustainable wage" even if it means taking 75-90% from others?

[Drblankstare]

They say it's about the kids.... I don't really believe it though.

Theoretically it's about taking care of the athlete's who can't work because their commitment to sports and school demand too much of their time and whose parents can't help out with the extra things. That's true, but it's also an excuse for an arms race in college sports. NDSU did what they thought they had to. The landscape is changing. I think we all knew that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

whistling....

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/02/why-fcs-schools-need-to-be-very.html

[BisonBacker]

Who's screaming about breaking the bank?


Also, your stance on FCOA when it comes to NDSU is very Republican/capitalist of you. What about helping those who need to be helped and making sure every program gets a "living/sustainable wage" even if it means taking 75-90% from others?

http://miguelaragoncillo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/boom-goes-the-dynamite-geeksandcleats.jpg

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Easy for a state flagship school to say..... Most FCS schools are lower on state funding and athletic pecking order than NDSU.



So make it that no one can do it right? Just like D2, the least funded programs want to bring everyone else down to make it "fair".

[JayJ79]

So make it that no one can do it right? Just like D2, the least funded programs want to bring everyone else down to make it "fair".

using that logic, why have scholarship limits at all? Why not let Texas* have 200 football scholarships so that they can hoard more talent. And get rid of salary caps in the pro leagues.

* (I don't really pay that much attention to FBS football, so perhaps Texas isn't a good example. But the point stands that there are some schools with much larger budgets who would love to be able to give extra scholarships in order to get a leg up on schools with smaller budgets)

[BisonBacker]

Easy for a state flagship school to say..... Most FCS schools are lower on state funding and athletic pecking order than NDSU.

Not as easy as you may think when you have a bunch of douchnozzle legislators who are grads of another school in the state doing everything in their power to constantly stick it to NDSU. Equity funding in this state between the top schools has never gone or been in favor of NDSU so while your argument should make sense in North Dakota is does not work that way.

[344Johnson]

Not as easy as you may think when you have a bunch of douchnozzle legislators who are grads of another school in the state doing everything in their power to constantly stick it to NDSU. Equity funding in this state between the top schools has never gone or been in favor of NDSU so while your argument should make sense in North Dakota is does not work that way.

People with the idea that the legislators in Bismarck want NDSU to fail would make for an interesting psych case study.

[No_Skill]

NDSU is now offering max scholarships for ALL sports. That was announced today.

http://i.imgur.com/3sGoNdr.gif

[Bisonator]

It's only a matter of time before every school in D1 is offering FCOA. If your not going to offer it you might as well drop to D2. It's not a huge amount of money in the grand scheme of college athletic budgets. At NDSU the FCOA is roughly $700k per year compared to a total athletic budget approaching $20M per year. We are literally talking peanuts here.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

using that logic, why have scholarship limits at all? Why not let Texas* have 200 football scholarships so that they can hoard more talent. And get rid of salary caps in the pro leagues.

* (I don't really pay that much attention to FBS football, so perhaps Texas isn't a good example. But the point stands that there are some schools with much larger budgets who would love to be able to give extra scholarships in order to get a leg up on schools with smaller budgets)



Every school has a choice, do this or not. If a D1 school has the resources then they should have every right to do it.

Panthernation.com is pretty entertaining with this subject. I really like the idea of booting NDSU out of the Valley.

Email your AD and tell him not to do this since you think it is so unfair.....

[Bisonoline]

using that logic, why have scholarship limits at all? Why not let Texas* have 200 football scholarships so that they can hoard more talent. And get rid of salary caps in the pro leagues.

* (I don't really pay that much attention to FBS football, so perhaps Texas isn't a good example. But the point stands that there are some schools with much larger budgets who would love to be able to give extra scholarships in order to get a leg up on schools with smaller budgets)

Because at one time the bigs had any more scholarships than what they do now. What they did was recruit players away from other school so they didn't get them and then they would ride the bench. The coaches had no intention of playing them. This was a common practice. There is more in what was wrong but you get the jest of it.

The FCOA isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.

[IBleedYellow]

Every school has a choice, do this or not. If a D1 school has the resources then they should have every right to do it.

Panthernation.com is pretty entertaining with this subject. I really like the idea of booting NDSU out of the Valley.

Email your AD and tell him not to do this since you think it is so unfair.....
It's funny, because the commissioners have already commented on this.

The legal consultants for the conferences have already said it would be in their best interest to NOT attempt to limit schools attempts to add FCOA within the conference.

NDSU won't be kicked from the Valley for adding FCOA, nor will any other school. All Division 1 schools have the RIGHT to add FCOA to their scholarships as the current NCAA legislation states.

[knucklehead]

xthumbsupx

What he.....did.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

It's funny, because the commissioners have already commented on this.

The legal consultants for the conferences have already said it would be in their best interest to NOT attempt to limit schools attempts to add FCOA within the conference.

NDSU won't be kicked from the Valley for adding FCOA, nor will any other school. All Division 1 schools have the RIGHT to add FCOA to their scholarships as the current NCAA legislation states.


I know NDSU will not be kicked out, just funny reading it from their fanbase.

[WileECoyote06]

Easy for a state flagship school to say..... Most FCS schools are lower on state funding and athletic pecking order than NDSU.

You guys could always get with the OVC and create a bowl game like the SWAC and the MEAC did.

xlolx

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

http://i.imgur.com/3sGoNdr.gif

NDSU to Offer Full Cost of Attendance in 2016-17
FARGO, N.D. – The North Dakota State University department of athletics today announced it will offer full cost of attendance to scholarship student-athletes in all 16 sports beginning with the 2016-17 season. In addition, scholarship support will be increased in the sports of baseball, men's golf, and men's track and field to bring all NDSU programs to their maximum scholarship limit, per NCAA regulations

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Maybe this is the first step towards the Big 12.....xdrunkyx xeyebrowx

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Panther Nation has some crazy talk going on. They really want the MVFC to kick NDSU out of the conference. :p

[IBleedYellow]

Panther Nation has some crazy talk going on. They really want the MVFC to kick NDSU out of the conference. :p
Which is so hilarious.

Seven years ago NDSU wouldn't be able to handle the MVFC according to UNI fans.

Now they want to kick us out for being too big?

Some great minds.

[BisonFan02]

Which is so hilarious.

Seven years ago NDSU wouldn't be able to handle the MVFC according to UNI fans.

Now they want to kick us out for being too big?

Some great minds.

Or all of the MVC schools can just cry poverty and join the Pioneer.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

I wonder if UNI fans want USD and SDSU kicked out of the MVFC also. Sounds like they both will be following NDSU with COA.

[Missingnumber7]

using that logic, why have scholarship limits at all? Why not let Texas* have 200 football scholarships so that they can hoard more talent. And get rid of salary caps in the pro leagues.

* (I don't really pay that much attention to FBS football, so perhaps Texas isn't a good example. But the point stands that there are some schools with much larger budgets who would love to be able to give extra scholarships in order to get a leg up on schools with smaller budgets)


I believe you have jumped off the deep end with this conclusion. Whats being said isn't that the lower levels shouldn't be heard, but that we shouldn't base our scholarship limits/FCOA limits on the bottom of the barrell. And we aren't basing it on the top of the barrel either. It needs to be somewhere near the center. The playing field is never going to be level. No matter how you choose to limit scholarships. But the fact that the NCAA hasn't set limits for different levels shows that they really want nothing to do with legislating this.

And in the end this has nothing to do with scholarship limits.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But wait... all those people that were claiming that the MVFC could simply instate a rule that prohibits FCOA for football....

[2ram]

... it has begun...

[SUPharmacist]

But wait... all those people that were claiming that the MVFC could simply instate a rule that prohibits FCOA for football....

But wait, where are all those straw-men you propped up to support your argument. First of all they could pass a rule, but as you stated that very well could trigger lawsuits. Second, why must you always come in like you were a lone genius (when others had the same ideas) and scream "look at me," here were my thoughts. Your record is not as great as you think, and I would respect it a lot more if you let it stand on its own merits. I do appreciate any trying to cover FCS football, so thank you for that.

My thoughts are if schools have the ability and will to do this let them. There are always haves and have nots in college sports, as long as schools operate within the rules (always need to review that) more power to them. NDSU is particularly sensitive to trying to get every last advantage, as they feel the decrease in scholarships at DII hurt them. I do not like what this may do to the competitive nature of FCS, but maybe it will help lead to schools re-aligning with more similar schools.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But wait, where are all those straw-men you propped up to support your argument. First of all they could pass a rule, but as you stated that very well could trigger lawsuits. Second, why must you always come in like you were a lone genius (when others had the same ideas) and scream "look at me," here were my thoughts. Your record is not as great as you think, and I would respect it a lot more if you let it stand on its own merits. I do appreciate any trying to cover FCS football, so thank you for that.

My thoughts are if schools have the ability and will to do this let them. There are always haves and have nots in college sports, as long as schools operate within the rules (always need to review that) more power to them. NDSU is particularly sensitive to trying to get every last advantage, as they feel the decrease in scholarships at DII hurt them. I do not like what this may do to the competitive nature of FCS, but maybe it will help lead to schools re-aligning with more similar schools.

Admittedly I was not a lone genius, but I was shouted down on this one and told I didn't know what I was talking about.

[clenz]

Admittedly I was not a lone genius, but I was shouted down on this one and told I didn't know what I was talking about.
I still wouldn't get too up about any thoughts you had just yet.

Liberty has a million students through their diploma mill of Christian wing nuts wanting a degree in the Bible. That certainly helps with money there. They are also the worst kept FBS begger there is.

North Dakota is flush with oil money and NDSU has a fan base like most FBS schools due to success and being the only show for a half day drive to the closest FBS school) and a full day to the next closest. Kind of a perfect storm for them.

USD said it will explore the idea - it's not likely to be implemented any time soon

Who else is on the verge?

[ST_Lawson]

Or all of the MVC schools can just cry poverty and join the Pioneer.

This, unfortunately, may not be far from the truth. I'm not blaming NDSU or anyone else who wants to implement FCOA...they're just doing what's best for themselves given the current situation. But, some schools in the conference aren't going to be able to go that route, not in the current fiscal climate. Western's athletic budget is 60% of what NDSU's is...enrollment is dropping...state financial support, if it ever comes through, will be lower than it's ever been. We don't have the big $ donors that a lot of schools have, so I can't think of any way that we'd be able to come up with the money to do it.

I don't think NDSU should be kicked out of the MVFC or penalized or anything...they're just doing what's right for themselves. If we could afford it, I'm sure we'd do it too.

[goyotes]

Sioux Falls Argus Leader article that discusses USD & SDSU's plans for offering FCOA. In summary, both plan to do so and want to take the time to make sure they get it right.

http://www.argusleader.com/story/sports/college/2015/08/28/jacks-coyotes-follow-ndsus-lead-pay-athletes/71290788/ (http://www.argusleader.com/story/sports/college/2015/08/28/jacks-coyotes-follow-ndsus-lead-pay-athletes/71290788/)

[Evolution Prime]

... it has begun...

Sorry, couldn't help myself.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FkvhHoHhbU

[chattownmocs]

Do schools like UNI make more money off football or basketball?

[IBleedYellow]

Everyone keeps thinking the oil money is flowing into NDSU and UND coffers.

It's not.

I'd venture to say UND has the majors that are more aligned with the oil industry much more than NDSU (the agricultural college) is.

This isn't oil money. Stop assuming it is.

[clenz]

Do schools like UNI make more money off football or basketball?
Significantly more on basketball

[clenz]

Everyone keeps thinking the oil money is flowing into NDSU and UND coffers.

It's not.

I'd venture to say UND has the majors that are more aligned with the oil industry much more than NDSU (the agricultural college) is.

This isn't oil money. Stop assuming it is.
Indirect impact...re: not straight from refinery to the school but that boom still has an extreme indirect impact on all state funded programs and institutions.

Tough to prove but impossible to ignore.

[chattownmocs]

Honestly I think a lot of schools will gind the money to do this but I don't think it will be very difficult for schools that play in the mvfc and mvc.

[WileECoyote06]

Honestly I think a lot of schools will gind the money to do this but I don't think it will be very difficult for schools that play in the mvfc and mvc.

Don't be surprised when men's Olympic sports start getting cut.

[AmsterBison]

Kind of seems like you could look at it either way. Disadvantage based on the costs that you may have to spend, but an advantage to offer more. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Sounds like UND and NDSU came up with the same number... $3400. That is, if the article below is accurate:

http://bismarcktribune.com/und-paying-hockey-players-on-cost-of-attendance/article_64b5da61-9db3-534b-a4bc-49b33d22cd4e.html

[Yote 53]

I think this is hilarious. Calls to kick NDSU out of the conference, seriously? What does it say when the best team in the conference (NDSU) and the worst team in the conference (USD) are both going offer to FCOA? Well, to me it says the rest of the conference better get on board because one school plans to stay at the top (NDSU) and one school is planning on moving to the top (USD).

I think it's been years I have been discussing with UNI fans that they just don't understand what kind of resources the Dakota schools have. We all sat back in D2 for far too long, and now that the schools are experiencing tastes of success in D1 athletics across their sports offerings, bam! It's on!

[1984]

People with the idea that the legislators in Bismarck want NDSU to fail would make for an interesting psych case study.

I am not sure to the motives but it is a FACT that UND has always received a significantly larger per student monetary payment from the state government.

[Bisonator]

Indirect impact...re: not straight from refinery to the school but that boom still has an extreme indirect impact on all state funded programs and institutions.

Tough to prove but impossible to ignore.

You're off a bit here. Sure NDSU benefits indirectly from oil money but the athletic scholarships, facilities, FCOA, etc. are funded thru private donations. Are there some donors who have made money from oil, I'm sure there are but who really knows how much. I will tell you the biggest donors are not tied to the oil industry.

[WileECoyote06]

I am not sure to the motives but it is a FACT that UND has always received a significantly larger per student monetary payment from the state government.

That could be based on the majors being offered. In North Carolina, a school with nursing or engineering is going to get more money than a school offering mainly liberal arts or education.

[FargoBison]

Indirect impact...re: not straight from refinery to the school but that boom still has an extreme indirect impact on all state funded programs and institutions.

Tough to prove but impossible to ignore.
It has helped but much more so on the academic side then with athletics. The state will not spend a single cent on athletic infrastructure. Even bonding is off the table.

Our athletic subsidy has remained very stable and is one of the smallest in the FCS.

Sent from my A0001

[UNI Pike]

NDSU's biggest financial advantage is the tuition reciprocity across so many states. Iowa and other states Board of Regents/legislature simply don't allow that option for many reasons.

When recruiting a player from Minnesota, UNI has to budget roughly $25K for tuition, room, board & incidents. NDSU budgets a number substantially lower than $25K for the same player. I believe its more in the range of $15K, but I haven't researched that in a while. Extrapolate that out 20-30 players, that is a substantial budgetary difference. Especially when it comes to partial scholarships. Two teams offering the same player a $5K scholarship per year, the player ends up having vastly different financial burden.

[PantherRob82]

I think this is hilarious. Calls to kick NDSU out of the conference, seriously? What does it say when the best team in the conference (NDSU) and the worst team in the conference (USD) are both going offer to FCOA? Well, to me it says the rest of the conference better get on board because one school plans to stay at the top (NDSU) and one school is planning on moving to the top (USD).

I think it's been years I have been discussing with UNI fans that they just don't understand what kind of resources the Dakota schools have. We all sat back in D2 for far too long, and now that the schools are experiencing tastes of success in D1 athletics across their sports offerings, bam! It's on!

NDSU has a plan. USD has a statement. Let us know when USD has this success you speak of. ;)

[chattownmocs]

Don't be surprised when men's Olympic sports start getting cut.

Its already started and I'm completely fine with it. I don't see any reason why these so many schools need all these sports anyway. For example, do we really need thousands of D1 tennis players? I just don't see the talent and competition that it takes to be the 6th tennis player at x school being the backup LB at the same school.

[WileECoyote06]

Its already started and I'm completely fine with it. I don't see any reason why these so many schools need all these sports anyway. For example, do we really need thousands of D1 tennis players? I just don't see the talent and competition that it takes to be the 6th tennis player at x school being the backup LB at the same school.

xcoffeex

[APaladindad]

NDSU might be able to get that FBS recruit that is on the fence or a very good FCS recruit that many other FCS schools want. The COA stipend might be the final factor in a kid deciding to come to NDSU over a school not offering the stipend.
I agree with your assumption. That is how the COA will be used as a recruiting tool and interpreted by the prospect. Those that can afford to play will get a better recruit than those that can't!

[KPSUL]

Its already started and I'm completely fine with it. I don't see any reason why these so many schools need all these sports anyway. For example, do we really need thousands of D1 tennis players? I just don't see the talent and competition that it takes to be the 6th tennis player at x school being the backup LB at the same school.

Over the decades, schools have been cutting male varsity sports programs to meet the Title IX requirements. A contributing factor has been the requirements to carry so many scholarship athletes on football teams. I think you are in a tiny minuscule minority of college sports enthusiasts if you are ok with cutting more men's varsity teams. There really should be no reason for any school to finance FCOA by cutting out teams. Only FCS football teams that generate the funding to afford it should even consider it. The talent needed to succeed in varsity football vs. varsity tennis are so vastly different that it is pointless no make a comparison.

[UNI Pike]

Most tennis teams I see these days are solely for the ladies, as a scholarship offset to FB

[NDB]

Pathetic. P-a-t-h-e-t-i-c.

Unfair? Life isn't fair.

Should conferences mandate total budgets? coaches salaries? That would be fair.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

NDSU's biggest financial advantage is the tuition reciprocity across so many states. Iowa and other states Board of Regents/legislature simply don't allow that option for many reasons.

When recruiting a player from Minnesota, UNI has to budget roughly $25K for tuition, room, board & incidents. NDSU budgets a number substantially lower than $25K for the same player. I believe its more in the range of $15K, but I haven't researched that in a while. Extrapolate that out 20-30 players, that is a substantial budgetary difference. Especially when it comes to partial scholarships. Two teams offering the same player a $5K scholarship per year, the player ends up having vastly different financial burden.


This is more accurate than the "oil money" crap made by some on here.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I think this is hilarious. Calls to kick NDSU out of the conference, seriously? What does it say when the best team in the conference (NDSU) and the worst team in the conference (USD) are both going offer to FCOA? Well, to me it says the rest of the conference better get on board because one school plans to stay at the top (NDSU) and one school is planning on moving to the top (USD).

I think it's been years I have been discussing with UNI fans that they just don't understand what kind of resources the Dakota schools have. We all sat back in D2 for far too long, and now that the schools are experiencing tastes of success in D1 athletics across their sports offerings, bam! It's on!


Where will USD get the money?

Coach Glenn has an underfunded staff. Now they need to find more money for FCoA?

[344Johnson]

Where will USD get the money?

Coach Glenn has an underfunded staff. Now they need to find more money for FCoA?

The same way NDSU will

[Bisonoline]

NDSU's biggest financial advantage is the tuition reciprocity across so many states. Iowa and other states Board of Regents/legislature simply don't allow that option for many reasons.

When recruiting a player from Minnesota, UNI has to budget roughly $25K for tuition, room, board & incidents. NDSU budgets a number substantially lower than $25K for the same player. I believe its more in the range of $15K, but I haven't researched that in a while. Extrapolate that out 20-30 players, that is a substantial budgetary difference. Especially when it comes to partial scholarships. Two teams offering the same player a $5K scholarship per year, the player ends up having vastly different financial burden.

Are you sure UNI charges its athletic dept out of state tuition for out of state players?

[PantherRob82]

Are you sure UNI charges its athletic dept out of state tuition for out of state players?

That is 100% on the record fact.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The same way NDSU will


Their staff is underfunded, now they need more money for FCOA. If they cannot pay their assistants now, you think more money will come out of donors that are not contributing in the first place?

[BisonBacker]

Their staff is underfunded, now they need more money for FCOA. If they cannot pay their assistants now, you think more money will come out of donors that are not contributing in the first place?

It's one thing if you are already close to being able to pull it off but for USD I don't see that being the case. This will be interesting to watch. xcoffeex

[UNI Pike]

Are you sure UNI charges its athletic dept out of state tuition for out of state players?
Yes. It is kind of an accounting shell game, but the AD is charged full freight for out of state students. This makes a couple things happen.

Out of state players typically are full rides, or nearly so. Second, roster is heavily slanted to instate players. Instate players often are provided fixed dollar amount scholarships. $8K grant goes a long ways when tuition, room and board run a total of $16k, with it evenly divided between tuition and housing/food.

From my NSA monitored nexus 5

[Yote 53]

I hear what you are saying about funding but would also add that we have incrementally been increasing our budget every year. Not saying we'll pay FCOA next year like NDSU, saying we are putting plans in place to fund it and not bitching about it like other MVFC schools.

Another note, the South Dakota schools share the same reciprocity agreements the ND schools do. MN & ND are both in-state and we're also part of the Western States tuition deal.