Why don't Montana and Montana State....

[Chi Panther]

play in the second round........

[Grizfanatic]

Simple response: Cause we are in different brackets...
Smartass Response: Cause we paid good money no to have to play them again so soon..
Honest response: Not sure...


GO GRIZ!

[LacesOut]

I would say........Because that game already happened. But then how would I explain the second round matchup of UNH/UMass????? I would not be able to!

[BearsCountry]

I would say........Because that game already happened. But then how would I explain the second round matchup of UNH/UMass????? I would not be able to!

Or Illinois St/Youngstown State

[Down with the Foe!]

because we drew Cal Poly last year inthe "opening" round...after we had just beat them 3 weeks prior.


What comes around goes around, and the committe probably decided that the Griz would beat them again, assuring us a Semi-final game.

Now we have to beat a super tough SIU - I'd rather face the cats myself.

[Tod]

No idea, but of note, Furman and GSU have met for the NC at least twice...

[Grizzaholic]

Because they wanted it to be an all Montana school chipper!xlolx

[GannonFan]

Maybe they didn't think a non-Grizzly Big Sky team would get past the 1st round and didn't bother with the conference matchups like with the other brackets? :smiley_wi

[Down with the Foe!]

Maybe they didn't think a non-Grizzly Big Sky team would get past the 1st round and didn't bother with the conference matchups like with the other brackets? :smiley_wi

There MAY be some truth to that....and maybe also MSU put in a whopper of a home bid....and they thought they would grab the cash, and send Furman to Boone for a round 2 = rematch.

:nono:


Whooopps


Be glad PSU and Cal Poly did not make it in- or it may be an all west Semi's if the brackets worked that way.

True.

[Hells Bells]

CP v msu
PSU v um

now that would be good semifinal matchup

[Ronbo]

Maybe they didn't think a non-Grizzly Big Sky team would get past the 1st round and didn't bother with the conference matchups like with the other brackets? :smiley_wi

You nailed it. They thought MSU would fold in the 1st round.

[89Hen]

No idea, but of note, Furman and GSU have met for the NC at least twice...
GSU wasn't in the Southern Conference either time. :twocents:

And as I said in another thread, the BSC seems to have gotten preferential treatment in this issue the past four years. They haven't had teams lined up to meet in the second round in the past four years.

[Chi Panther]

What happened to regionality??????

The committee and their little box of chocolates.......:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Catbooster]

In 2002, we (MSU) would have met UM in the second round had we beat McNeese.

[Peems]

GSU wasn't in the Southern Conference either time. :twocents:

And as I said in another thread, the BSC seems to have gotten preferential treatment in this issue the past four years. They haven't had teams lined up to meet in the second round in the past four years.

yeah but they get sent to the number one team in the nation and beat em...
NAU and EWU.

[DuckDuckGriz]

yeah but they get sent to the number one team in the nation and beat em...
NAU and EWU.
And almost Montana State in `02 down in Lake Charles.

[Death Dealer]

You nailed it. They thought MSU would fold in the 1st round.

You know, I'm getting so tired of everybody from the BSC and their victim complex. Who doesn't think the BSC is a tough conference? If they do, then they are xidiotx . I never for once thought it was a foregone conclusion that MSU would fold in the first round....in fact, when I saw the brackets on selection Sunday, I immediately said we were screwed. Of course, I didn't say that to any of you, that would be defeatist and I don't do defeatist. I was a little suprised at the one sided nature of the beat down Saturday, but not at all that MSU lost.

[dbackjon]

yeah but they get sent to the number one team in the nation and beat em...
NAU and EWU.

Yeah - that Preferential Big Sky treatment got Big Sky Teams sent to the #1 seed three years in a row, with the BSC winning two of them!

[Proud Griz Man]

You know, I'm getting so tired of everybody from the BSC and their victim complex. Who doesn't think the BSC is a tough conference? If they do, then they are xidiotx . I never for once thought it was a foregone conclusion that MSU would fold in the first round....in fact, when I saw the brackets on selection Sunday, I immediately said we were screwed. Of course, I didn't say that to any of you, that would be defeatist and I don't do defeatist. I was a little suprised at the one sided nature of the beat down Saturday, but not at all that MSU lost.

Uh, lets see. 89Hen and All of the Delaware fans. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Death Dealer]

Uh, lets see. 89Hen and All of the Delaware fans. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Like I said, xidiotx .

[89Hen]

Uh, lets see. 89Hen and All of the Delaware fans.
Well, W-L in the playoffs is on my side in that one. Montana is the only team to go deep (past the quarters) since EWU in what 1998?

[89Hen]

In 2002, we (MSU) would have met UM in the second round had we beat McNeese.
Correct. Five playoffs ago. 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006.

[89Hen]

yeah but they get sent to the number one team in the nation and beat em...
NAU and EWU.
Beating #1 and losing the next week. :eyebrow:

[AZGrizFan]

Uh, lets see. 89Hen and All of the Delaware fans. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx


Also, one Reed Rothchild. :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[BigSkyGrizGano]

I think all you guys should be glad that Portland St. and Cal Poly didn't get in and that North Dakota St. and South Dakota St. are ineligible or there would be few east coast teams remaining. I have a lot of respect for the Great West, that conference is probably as tough as any in the country. And the Big Sky is always underestimated; this year it was the Cats, in years past it was NAU or EWU.

[89Hen]

And the Big Sky is always underestimated; this year it was the Cats, in years past it was NAU or EWU.
Each with one win. :eyebrow:

[89Hen]

I think all you guys should be glad that Portland St. and Cal Poly didn't get in and that North Dakota St. and South Dakota St. are ineligible or there would be few east coast teams remaining.
Au contraire mon fraire, you should be glad as you would have been playing NDSU first round if they were eligible and I think they could have beaten anyone in the field and CalPoly was the team that knocked you out last year before losing in the next round. PSU got smoked last time they came east in the playoffs. I have lots of respect for all four teams you mentioned, but the BigSky would have been the worse for wear if any of them were in. :twocents:

[Proud Griz Man]

Well, W-L in the playoffs is on my side in that one. Montana is the only team to go deep (past the quarters) since EWU in what 1998?

Mortgage rates must be up, you're extremely grumpy again. :bawling:

[89Hen]

Mortgage rates must be up, you're extremely grumpy again. :bawling:
Nope, rates are down. Number of losses in Newark was up. :bawling: :bawling:

[GannonFan]

No shocker, I'm with 89 on this one - the facts are just too much in favor of the Big Sky being Montana and everyone else. That big gaping hole that Boise and Idaho left when they bolted in the mid 90's is still there - no one besides Montana can make anything more than a one game impression on the playoffs. And Montana's even had their problems winning the whole thing once they get out of Missoula - you gotta give them their justified props for always being there and making as many title games as they have, but 2 titles in all those years of BSC dominance points to the fact that BSC dominance is easily won. And I think he's right, when the Great West teams all become eligible the problem will be magnified as most of those teams are better than the middle and bottom of the BSC. Taking Northern Colorado rather than NDSU and SDSU may come back to bit the BSC in terms of football prestige in the future.

[putter]

I agree and disagree. EWU and NAU may have lost in their next game but to go in and beat the #1 seeds on the road is never easy and EWU lost to a very good Sam Houston team on the last play. NAU got ran over by Florida A&M. If you are talking consistency then Montana runs away with it but you can't bash teams and conferences for "only one win" because if you do your Blue Hens would be close to the bottom of the ladder.

[GannonFan]

I agree and disagree. EWU and NAU may have lost in their next game but to go in and beat the #1 seeds on the road is never easy and EWU lost to a very good Sam Houston team on the last play. NAU got ran over by Florida A&M. If you are talking consistency then Montana runs away with it but you can't bash teams and conferences for "only one win" because if you do your Blue Hens would be close to the bottom of the ladder.

Well, it's not about the Blue Hens, it's about the BSC. Since Idaho and Boise St have left (1996 on) the BSC outside of Montana have only won 4 first round games (EWU has done it twice, Mont St and NAU once each) including this year, and only once (EWU in 1997) did one of those teams win the quarterfinal game. The A10, by comparison, since it has no dominant team like Montana, has won 18 first round games and 7 quarterfinal games over the same time period. UD's been the most dominant of the bunch, but they only account for 3 of the 7 quarterfinal winners - UMass, nova, JMU, and W&M account for the other 4. And 9 A10 teams have won at least one playoff game in the same period.

Like I said before, the BSC took a major hit when Idaho and Boise left - frankly, any conference would if they lost teams of that quality - and I just don't think the BSC has had anyone really fill in the void since then and it's been a decade since they left.

[89Hen]

you can't bash teams and conferences for "only one win" because if you do your Blue Hens would be close to the bottom of the ladder.
:confused: Since the last time a BSC team other than Montana went to the semis or further...

Delaware: NC in 2003, Semis in 2000 and 1997
UMass: NC in 1998
JMU: NC in 2004
Villanova: Semis in 2002
William & Mary: Semis in 2004

[GannonFan]

:confused: Since the last time a BSC team other than Montana went to the semis or further...

Delaware: NC in 2003, Semis in 2000 and 1997
UMass: NC in 1998
JMU: NC in 2004
Villanova: Semis in 2002
William & Mary: Semis in 2004

Copy cat. :thumbsup:

[putter]

You can do those comparisons with all the conferences. How did the Gateway do when YSU was dominating? How did the SoCon do when Georgia Southern was dominating?

You can not argue that the Big Sky did not replace Idaho, Boise St and Nevada with quality football schools and we all still shake our heads about not letting in NDSU and SDSU into the conference but I still think the BSC gets the short end of the stick when people talk about quality as teams like PSU, MSU, NAU, for the most part are decent teams every year.

[GannonFan]

You can do those comparisons with all the conferences. How did the Gateway do when YSU was dominating? How did the SoCon do when Georgia Southern was dominating?

You can not argue that the Big Sky did not replace Idaho, Boise St and Nevada with quality football schools and we all still shake our heads about not letting in NDSU and SDSU into the conference but I still think the BSC gets the short end of the stick when people talk about quality as teams like PSU, MSU, NAU, for the most part are decent teams every year.


Uh, Youngstown did most of their dominating prior to joining the Gateway - only the last title was when they were in that conference and up to this year they hadn't made the playoffs since. GSU won the majority of their titles outside of the SoCon as well. And the SoCon has actually done well for themselves. They had Marshall, GSU, Furman, and Appy St all do well in the playoffs and win titles. Even Wofford got to a national semi. I think the BSC gets the end of the stick that's accurate - even the likes of PSU and MSU and NAU and EWU just don't have enough good years and enough really big years to counteract the perception that it's Montana and a bunch of other teams. No one consistently makes enough noise by winning some big games.

[89Hen]

How did the Gateway do when YSU was dominating? How did the SoCon do when Georgia Southern was dominating?
How many Gateway titles do the Guins have? And AppSt and FU may have something to say about one team dominating the SoCon. Again, W-L is not on your side.

[saccat]

How about some of you GREAT teams come out west eary in the season and PLAY the PSU, MSU, and NAU's.

(By the way, I know we should do Home and Homes, but the Cats and Griz seem to by out there end of the deal. Sorry NDSU:( )

[putter]

Uh, Youngstown did most of their dominating prior to joining the Gateway - only the last title was when they were in that conference and up to this year they hadn't made the playoffs since. GSU won the majority of their titles outside of the SoCon as well. And the SoCon has actually done well for themselves. They had Marshall, GSU, Furman, and Appy St all do well in the playoffs and win titles. Even Wofford got to a national semi. I think the BSC gets the end of the stick that's accurate - even the likes of PSU and MSU and NAU and EWU just don't have enough good years and enough really big years to counteract the perception that it's Montana and a bunch of other teams. No one consistently makes enough noise by winning some big games.

That is my biggest point. Your last sentence is right on but that doesn't mean that other teams in the conference are not quality teams and who knows what would have happened if NAU and PSU not loaded up with I-A games.

"89Hen" --> How many Gateway titles do the Guins have? And AppSt and FU may have something to say about one team dominating the SoCon. Again, W-L is not on your side.

That is why I asked the question, because I did not know. When GSU was winning it's 6 titles were they sharing conference championships with App and FU? Again just asking.

[GannonFan]

That is my biggest point. Your last sentence is right on but that doesn't mean that other teams in the conference are not quality teams and who knows what would have happened if NAU and PSU not loaded up with I-A games.

"89Hen" --> How many Gateway titles do the Guins have? And AppSt and FU may have something to say about one team dominating the SoCon. Again, W-L is not on your side.

That is why I asked the question, because I did not know. When GSU was winning it's 6 titles were they sharing conference championships with App and FU? Again just asking.

Well, the problem is that the other teams in the conference just never make the noise that would make us believe they are quality. Often, the playoffs are the proving ground for this and frankly, outside of Montana the BSC has come up short in that regard. And it's tough to put NAU in the same category as PSU - NAU played 2 DI-A teams, for sure, but they also played Dixie St. A lot of I-AA (CS) teams play 1 I-A team and one Dixie St-type team, so playing just one more DI-A team in a 6-5 year is not a huge deal. PSU played 3 DI-A teams and no Dixie St-patsy.

As for GSU, they won 4 of their 6 national titles before the joined the SoCon in 1992. Only the last 2 were when they were part of the conference and they were co-champs with Furman in 1999, one of their NC years.

[putter]

I agree with your point. The have not made the collective splash that other conferences and teams have made over the years but the victories that they do have have been very good victories. You don't beat a SIU or McNeese on the road when they are #1 unless you have quality teams. The challenge is getting consistent and that is where MSU, PSU and even NAU are starting to come into their own.

The biggest concern I have is the blanket statment that the "Big Sky is weak" we hear every year and I don't think that is justified.

[lizrdgizrd]

That is why I asked the question, because I did not know. When GSU was winning it's 6 titles were they sharing conference championships with App and FU? Again just asking.
The last 2 NCs they won they were also the SoCon champs or co-champs ('99 & '00). Since then they have been trading with us, Wofford, & FU for SoCon champs.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and that M team...I forget (at least I try to forget). :bang:

[89Hen]

"89Hen" --> How many Gateway titles do the Guins have? And AppSt and FU may have something to say about one team dominating the SoCon. Again, W-L is not on your side.

That is why I asked the question, because I did not know. When GSU was winning it's 6 titles were they sharing conference championships with App and FU? Again just asking.
I thought you asking a rhetorical question. Unfortunately because so many OOC games are I-A, DII, or regional I-AA's we don't have a lot to go on. The playoffs are the best tool we have to measure relative conference strength. The A10 as a whole had a pretty weak playoff record prior to 1998, but since then three different teams winning the NC and two other teams going to the semis (one got knocked out of the semis by a fellow A10) has changed that. Since 1997, no BSC team other than Montana has made the semis.

Semifinal+ appearances 1998 - 2005 (champs in bold):
A10 - Delaware, JMU, UMass, Villanova, W&M
Gateway - WKU, WIU, YSU, ISU, UNI
SoCon - GSU, AppSt, FU, Wofford
Southland - NWSt, McNeese, SHSU, Texas St
Big Sky - Montana
Patriot - Colgate
MEAC - FAMU
Ind. - FAU

IMO it's pretty hard to ignore the drop off after the Southland.

[dbackjon]

Well, the problem is that the other teams in the conference just never make the noise that would make us believe they are quality. Often, the playoffs are the proving ground for this and frankly, outside of Montana the BSC has come up short in that regard. And it's tough to put NAU in the same category as PSU - NAU played 2 DI-A teams, for sure, but they also played Dixie St. A lot of I-AA (CS) teams play 1 I-A team and one Dixie St-type team, so playing just one more DI-A team in a 6-5 year is not a huge deal. PSU played 3 DI-A teams and no Dixie St-patsy.



NAU wanted 5 home games - it is extremely difficult to find I-AA teams willing to do home and home with us. UNI has done so twice, as has SFA once in the past decade or so. PSU went with 4 home games - not the way to help build the fan base.

If NAU could find enough decent opponents, they wouldn't need to resort to the two I-A's/Dixie States of the world, and would have been in the playoffs this year. It is a shame, really, because NAU is talented enough to play with anyone in the country this year.

[Tod]

<Lord, please let MSU beat ASU this Saturday. Amen.>

<Oh, and the Griz, don't forget them, either>.

http://members.cox.net/hessen/child-praying.jpg

[89Hen]

If NAU could find enough decent opponents, they wouldn't need to resort to the two I-A's/Dixie States of the world, and would have been in the playoffs this year.
:eyebrow: I would say the three Big Sky losses cost you a playoff bid, not the two I-A's or Dixie State.

[89Hen]

<Lord, please let MSU beat ASU this Saturday. Amen.>
Eh, don't worry about it Tod... you can always use the had to travel half way across the country excuse if they do lose. :p BTW, can't wait to watch that game on TV, should be a good one. :thumbsup:

[dbackjon]

:eyebrow: I would say the three Big Sky losses cost you a playoff bid, not the two I-A's or Dixie State.

Very true - fourth place teams have a hard time making a case for the playoffs. But, at 8-3, we probably would have made it.

3 conference losses by 8 points or less... :bang: :bang: :bang:

[bison95]

<Lord, please let MSU beat ASU this Saturday. Amen.>

<Oh, and the Griz, don't forget them, either>.

http://members.cox.net/hessen/child-praying.jpg

So is God a Cat fan, or a grizz fan???:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Peems]

Beating #1 and losing the next week. :eyebrow:

true, but my point was that most teams in the big sky dont get the preferential treatment.

[89Hen]

true, but my point was that most teams in the big sky dont get the preferential treatment.
Yup, only your Griz. :smiley_wi :smiley_wi

[bkrownd]

The A10 as a whole had a pretty weak playoff record prior to 1998, but since then three different teams winning the NC and two other teams going to the semis (one got knocked out of the semis by a fellow A10) has changed that.

The landscape changed quite a bit in the northeast. Of course, it didn't hurt that a lot of the Big Boys of I-AA moved to I-A during the 1990's.

[Peems]

The landscape changed quite a bit in the northeast. Of course, it didn't hurt that a lot of the Big Boys of I-AA moved to I-A during the 1990's.

and look at our big sky alum boise st. now:) :nod: !!!

[Tod]

So is God a Cat fan, or a grizz fan???:confused: :confused: :confused:

The state of Montana is God's Country, so...both! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

the 'Cats have just been sinnin' more lately...

[Tod]

and look at our big sky alum boise st. now:) :nod: !!!

Don't forget Nevada. Everybody seems to be forgetting them. They did quite well before they went I-A, too.

:) :) :)

[Peems]

Don't forget Nevada. Everybody seems to be forgetting them. They did quite well before they went I-A, too.

:) :) :)

but boise is crashing the BCS party. its the BSC in the BCS!:nod:

[Griz0383]

I don't want to play a team from our conference! I enjoy the mystery of teams from other conferences and meeting their fans. I understand the economics of travel for teams but I really don't thinks its good for the play offs when teams from the same conference meet in the post season unless its unavoidable! Just a thought!

[eaglesrthe1]

You know, I'm getting so tired of everybody from the BSC and their victim complex. Who doesn't think the BSC is a tough conference? If they do, then they are xidiotx . I never for once thought it was a foregone conclusion that MSU would fold in the first round....in fact, when I saw the brackets on selection Sunday, I immediately said we were screwed. Of course, I didn't say that to any of you, that would be defeatist and I don't do defeatist. I was a little suprised at the one sided nature of the beat down Saturday, but not at all that MSU lost.


I thought the same thing. For me though, it was because of where FU played more than who FU played.