Sun Belt looks for a new member?

[The Cats]

Sun Belt Conference commissioner Karl Benson this week identified Eastern Kentucky, as expected, and Coastal Carolina as two schools the league at least has had talks with regarding their potential interest in possible future membership in the league.


http://www.theadvertiser.com/story/sports/college/ul/2015/07/22/two-schools-talks-future-league-membership/30543863/



Discuss......

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Note the lack of mention of another Big South school in that article.

[melloware13]

I feel right now, based on stadium only, EKU would be the front-runner. That is aided by the Big South being in a much more fragile state if CCU leaves.

[clenz]

BUT BUT BUT...

MISERY STATE HAS AN ENVELOPE FROM CUSA AND SBC ON THEIR DESKS...JUST ASK THEIR POSTERS

[BisonFan02]

The Sun Belt doesn't care if it leaves the Big South in a fragile state and they shouldn't care. That being said...the Sun Belt is still the conference that houses Georgia State correct? Who ISN'T a candidate from that part of the country?

[BEAR]

I think NDSU would be a GREAT fit.... xscanx

[BisonFan02]

I think NDSU would be a GREAT fit.... xscanx

Naw.....maybe UCA is now with all of that new found Ark money! xlolx

[dewey]

Why with all of the expected change in the P5 would anyone make a drastic change right now? It will be funny in a few years when the Sun Belt, CUSA and other conferences end up with the upper tier FCS teams.

Dewey

[walliver]

I don't see EKU of CCu as a viable candidate from an economic standpoint. I don't know that much about EKU, but CCU is rather small by SunBelt standards, has a very small stadium (8K or so), and very few older alumni. CCU could field a competetive team, but the cost of putting the baseball and basketball teams on airplanes for almost every game doesn't make economic sense. That being said, since the SoCon and CAA have shown little interest in CCU, the SunBelt might be their best available option.

[Laker]

Another article:

http://espn1420.com/is-sun-belt-expansion-on-the-front-burner-from-the-birds-nest/

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

If I were a Coastal fan I would hate to see my team make the jump to FBS just when you are really starting to become truly nationally relevant. They may not have to move to FBS, though. I would not be surprised to possibly see Coastal stay FCS but move all other sports into the Sun Belt.

The Sun Belt is not looking for a football program. They need a men's soccer program and a travel partner for App State to be able to balance the schedule out.

The Big South is not in any position to tell someone they can't be a football-only member.

I don't see why it couldn't happen.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Another article:

http://espn1420.com/is-sun-belt-expansion-on-the-front-burner-from-the-birds-nest/

It is not a good day to be a Liberty fan when two schools 5 hours from Boone are being excitedly talked about by Benson and others surrounding the Sun Belt, while Liberty which is four hours away (and pretty much a straight shot driving), has been thrown to the side.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If I were a Coastal fan I would hate to see my team make the jump to FBS just when you are really starting to become truly nationally relevant. They may not have to move to FBS, though. I would not be surprised to possibly see Coastal stay FCS but move all other sports into the Sun Belt.

The Sun Belt is not looking for a football program. They need a men's soccer program and a travel partner for App State to be able to balance the schedule out.

The Big South is not in any position to tell someone they can't be a football-only member.

I don't see why it couldn't happen.

If football isn't a consideration, but a travel partner for App State is, why not Winthrop? No football but they're closer to App.

[clenz]

Why with all of the expected change in the P5 would anyone make a drastic change right now? It will be funny in a few years when the Sun Belt, CUSA and other conferences end up with the upper tier FCS teams.

Dewey
It's why schools like UNI (whom at one point looked at it pretty hard), Montana, Montana State, NDSU, SDSU, etc... are all no longer debating it until this shake out better

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

If football isn't a consideration, but a travel partner for App State is, why not Winthrop? No football but they're closer to App.

Because Coastal has a great baseball program, good men's soccer, and decent basketball. And because Coastal could potentially be a candidate for FBS football down the road.

[Bisonator]

How would CC pass the 15,000 average attendence hurdle when their stadium only holds what 9,000? Are they expanding it??

[clenz]

How would CC pass the 15,000 average attendence hurdle when their stadium only holds what 9,000? Are they expanding it??
Same way FAU has in the past

Host Michigan State at Ford field....

[Bisonator]

Same way FAU has in the past

Host Michigan State at Ford field....

Yeah but they at least have a stadium that holds more then 15,000! xlolx


I see that they are talking other sports not FB yet with CC.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

CCU would look awful funny competing in the Sun Belt in all sports but football, while football competes as an independent in FCS.

[Laker]

Speaking of a Sun Belt football school- is Idaho ever going to join the Big Sky in that sport too since they are in it for everything else?

[Missingnumber7]

How is College of Faith not in the discussions...cummon, they schedule up....waaaayyy up.

[The Cats]

If football isn't a consideration, but a travel partner for App State is, why not Winthrop? No football but they're closer to App.

UNC Asheville is even closer.......

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

CCU would look awful funny competing in the Sun Belt in all sports but football, while football competes as an independent in FCS.

Why would they have to be independent? They can't play FCS while being in the Sun Belt like WKU?

[dgtw]

Speaking of a Sun Belt football school- is Idaho ever going to join the Big Sky in that sport too since they are in it for everything else?

Idaho and New Mexico St. have two years left on their deal with the SBC. I think they can renew the deal after this season if both parties agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SENOREIDA]

How would CC pass the 15,000 average attendence hurdle when their stadium only holds what 9,000? Are they expanding it??
There is a lot of room to expand Brooks Stadium. It wouldn't be that hard to do.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Note the lack of mention of another Big South school in that article.

It is very sad that the Sun Belt is not going after Liberty. Liberty wants in and they would be a good way to expand their blueprint. Liberty would be an excellent addition to the conference.

[DFW HOYA]

It is very sad that the Sun Belt is not going after Liberty. Liberty wants in and they would be a good way to expand their blueprint. Liberty would be an excellent addition to the conference.

If so, the only other realistic option would be C-USA.

[walliver]

If the SunBelt is looking for a non-football addition and travel partner for App State, their options are fairly limited.

Now that the major basketball schools have left, the SunBelt is now a one-bid league. No school from a multi-bid league would want to move. There is no advantage for anyone to leave the Big South or OVC for the belt.

Winthrop has been mentioned, but Winthrop has become quite irrelevant after Greg Marshall left.

Of the other schools near Boone, UNC -Asheville is in the Big South, but I doubt the SBC offers any advantages. A-Sun member Kennesaw State might be a good option, with the possibility of football down the road, but I doubt Georgia State would want that. USC-Upstate doesn't have the money or facilities to leave the A-Sun and has no plans for football. the SunBelt would be a step up for any A-Sun member, but I just don't see any current A-Sun team being of any interest.

The only reason any school anywhere near ASU would want to join the belt would be for football, and I suspect that is why EKU and CCU are the only two being discussed. And I if were running either of these schools I would remind myself that both ASU and GSU (as well as Montana and others) expanded their stadia in response to demand for tickets, not expectations of future fan support

[SENOREIDA]

It is very sad that the Sun Belt is not going after Liberty. Liberty wants in and they would be a good way to expand their blueprint. Liberty would be an excellent addition to the conference.

A league full of public schools are not gonna want a Private Baptist school.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Why would they have to be independent? They can't play FCS while being in the Sun Belt like WKU?

I guess they could be like Monmouth, as far as the Big South is concerned. That works as long as the Big South needs football-only members in order to qualify for an automatic bid to the playoffs.

[SU DOG]

I haven't seen this mentioned, and I expect ridicule for posting it, but I'm going to anyhow, because I have some reliable sources for my comment. Conferences are scared of Liberty, but not as much for their religious convictions as for their resources. Liberty has an absolute ton of money waiting to be released when some FBS conference invites them, and I mean a TON. Schools know this, and privately they are skeptical of being able to compete with the advantages those resources could bring. What should be a plus, may actually be working against the Flames.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I haven't seen this mentioned, and I expect ridicule for posting it, but I'm going to anyhow, because I have some reliable sources for my comment. Conferences are scared of Liberty, but not as much for their religious convictions as for their resources. Liberty has an absolute ton of money waiting to be released when some FBS conference invites them, and I mean a TON. Schools know this, and privately they are skeptical of being able to compete with the advantages those resources could bring. What should be a plus, may actually be working against the Flames.

I wholeheartedly agree. I wrote about it a while ago.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/06/fbs-problems-with-mixing-religion-and.html

[dgtw]

A league full of public schools are not gonna want a Private Baptist school.

The Big XII took Baylor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SENOREIDA]

If the SunBelt is looking for a non-football addition and travel partner for App State, their options are fairly limited.

Now that the major basketball schools have left, the SunBelt is now a one-bid league. No school from a multi-bid league would want to move. There is no advantage for anyone to leave the Big South or OVC for the belt.

Winthrop has been mentioned, but Winthrop has become quite irrelevant after Greg Marshall left.

Of the other schools near Boone, UNC -Asheville is in the Big South, but I doubt the SBC offers any advantages. A-Sun member Kennesaw State might be a good option, with the possibility of football down the road, but I doubt Georgia State would want that. USC-Upstate doesn't have the money or facilities to leave the A-Sun and has no plans for football. the SunBelt would be a step up for any A-Sun member, but I just don't see any current A-Sun team being of any interest.

The only reason any school anywhere near ASU would want to join the belt would be for football, and I suspect that is why EKU and CCU are the only two being discussed. And I if were running either of these schools I would remind myself that both ASU and GSU (as well as Montana and others) expanded their stadia in response to demand for tickets, not expectations of future fan support
All the schools listed aren't even on Coastal's level athletically. Coastal is far superior in Baseball, which is what the Sun Belr would want and along with being competitive in basketball which Coastal has been excellent at the last decade. It would make a lot of sense for the Sun Belt to offer a bid for "Olympic sports" and offer football at a later time.

[doolittledog]

Why with all of the expected change in the P5 would anyone make a drastic change right now? It will be funny in a few years when the Sun Belt, CUSA and other conferences end up with the upper tier FCS teams.

Dewey

Will this set off another round of conference shuffling? All these schools like App State that changed conferences when they moved up then try to go back to a more regional conference like moving back to the Southern Conference?

[SU DOG]

I wholeheartedly agree. I wrote about it a while ago.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/06/fbs-problems-with-mixing-religion-and.html

Kudos for that article. I found it well-written, informative, and interesting. Glad you linked it.

[dbackjon]

Why would they have to be independent? They can't play FCS while being in the Sun Belt like WKU?

They would have to find a conference that would take them. Given the precarious nature of the Big South auto-bid, I doubt they would kick them out.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They would have to find a conference that would take them. Given the precarious nature of the Big South auto-bid, I doubt they would kick them out.

Jacksonville's already scholarship, so the Big South would just take them and let CCU rightfully twist in the wind.

[AshevilleApp2]

UNC Asheville is even closer.......

So is Wake Forest.

[AshevilleApp2]

Will this set off another round of conference shuffling? All these schools like App State that changed conferences when they moved up then try to go back to a more regional conference like moving back to the Southern Conference?

xnodx xnodx xthumbsupx

[Laker]

I wholeheartedly agree. I wrote about it a while ago.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/06/fbs-problems-with-mixing-religion-and.html

After reading the article, it made me wonder. What is the plan for UMass???

[smallcollegefbfan]

A league full of public schools are not gonna want a Private Baptist school.

Usually I would agree with that thought process but in this case Liberty has their own TV network, more money than the others, and they have better attendance than your typical private school. Liberty would be a great addition. I know that NDSU would make zero sense in terms of geography but they or another power school would be a nice addition. Sun Belt fans don't want to hear this but going 11-1 or 10-2 overall and going undefeated in that league means nothing. There are some who think App State or GSU could have a big year. Both of them need to go 12-0 to even argue that they are a top 25 team. There is no team in the Sun Belt that is top 50-60 worthy in FBS right now. The league is very weak and could use some schools with money and/or who could step right in and be in the top 4 of the league right off the bat like GSU and App were able to do.

[Catatonic]

Usually I would agree with that thought process but in this case Liberty has their own TV network, more money than the others, and they have better attendance than your typical private school. Liberty would be a great addition. I know that NDSU would make zero sense in terms of geography but they or another power school would be a nice addition. Sun Belt fans don't want to hear this but going 11-1 or 10-2 overall and going undefeated in that league means nothing. There are some who think App State or GSU could have a big year. Both of them need to go 12-0 to even argue that they are a top 25 team. There is no team in the Sun Belt that is top 50-60 worthy in FBS right now. The league is very weak and could use some schools with money and/or who could step right in and be in the top 4 of the league right off the bat like GSU and App were able to do.

Excellent points

[DFW HOYA]

After reading the article, it made me wonder. What is the plan for UMass???

1. AAC.
2. Wait for someone to leave the AAC.
3. See #1.

[Cocky]

I haven't seen this mentioned, and I expect ridicule for posting it, but I'm going to anyhow, because I have some reliable sources for my comment. Conferences are scared of Liberty, but not as much for their religious convictions as for their resources. Liberty has an absolute ton of money waiting to be released when some FBS conference invites them, and I mean a TON. Schools know this, and privately they are skeptical of being able to compete with the advantages those resources could bring. What should be a plus, may actually be working against the Flames.

Most of the SBC membership is afraid of competition which is why JSU hasnt and will not be considered. Troy understands the fact JSU would pass them in a New York second in all athletic arenas. The other members are buying the troy story and losing out on a good candidate.

Lamar is facing the same opposition as is Kennesaw State, Sam Houston and others.

[Cocky]

Usually I would agree with that thought process but in this case Liberty has their own TV network, more money than the others, and they have better attendance than your typical private school. Liberty would be a great addition. I know that NDSU would make zero sense in terms of geography but they or another power school would be a nice addition. Sun Belt fans don't want to hear this but going 11-1 or 10-2 overall and going undefeated in that league means nothing. There are some who think App State or GSU could have a big year. Both of them need to go 12-0 to even argue that they are a top 25 team. There is no team in the Sun Belt that is top 50-60 worthy in FBS right now. The league is very weak and could use some schools with money and/or who could step right in and be in the top 4 of the league right off the bat like GSU and App were able to do.
GaSo and App couldnt win the SOCON their last year but both were near or at the top of the SBC. The quality of play is below the FCS level but the public doesnt understand.

Im sure the old FCS members will now chime in on how they held Bo Jackson and company out for red shirts.

[Bisonator]

I haven't seen this mentioned, and I expect ridicule for posting it, but I'm going to anyhow, because I have some reliable sources for my comment. Conferences are scared of Liberty, but not as much for their religious convictions as for their resources. Liberty has an absolute ton of money waiting to be released when some FBS conference invites them, and I mean a TON. Schools know this, and privately they are skeptical of being able to compete with the advantages those resources could bring. What should be a plus, may actually be working against the Flames.

If this is true why wouldn't the Sunbelt just say we will invite you for a small (OK a LARGE) fee? They could even say it's a 2 year agreement that they have to go Indy or find another conference.

[WileECoyote06]

If this is true why wouldn't the Sunbelt just say we will invite you for a small (OK a LARGE) fee? They could even say it's a 2 year agreement that they have to go Indy or find another conference.

Would you like to deal with a school that has 80K students paying athletic fees? Liberty is the largest private non-profit university in the United States. Honestly, it's not fair that they are even in FCS. xeyebrowx i honestly think that 'conference invite' rule was made to keep them out of FBS. LFN makes a good argument in the blog.

[tigonian02]

GaSo and App couldnt win the SOCON their last year but both were near or at the top of the SBC. The quality of play is below the FCS level but the public doesnt understand.

Im sure the old FCS members will now chime in on how they held Bo Jackson and company out for red shirts.
Can't speak for App, but there was a tremendous amount of experimentation going on with Southern that last year in FCS. All for not though...coach left and a new-ish scheme came in.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Usually I would agree with that thought process but in this case Liberty has their own TV network, more money than the others, and they have better attendance than your typical private school. Liberty would be a great addition. I know that NDSU would make zero sense in terms of geography but they or another power school would be a nice addition. Sun Belt fans don't want to hear this but going 11-1 or 10-2 overall and going undefeated in that league means nothing. There are some who think App State or GSU could have a big year. Both of them need to go 12-0 to even argue that they are a top 25 team. There is no team in the Sun Belt that is top 50-60 worthy in FBS right now. The league is very weak and could use some schools with money and/or who could step right in and be in the top 4 of the league right off the bat like GSU and App were able to do.

Conference USA's west division champion lost to a non-playoff FCS team. What does that make that league? At least the Sun Belt's FCS loss came against a team in the cellar.

I pretty much agree with what Phil Steele said when he was interviewed by some Arkansas State radio guys recently….the Sun Belt has the worst cellar, but by and large there's no difference between the SBC, MAC, and CUSA.


Most of the SBC membership is afraid of competition which is why JSU hasnt and will not be considered. Troy understands the fact JSU would pass them in a New York second in all athletic arenas. The other members are buying the troy story and losing out on a good candidate.

Lamar is facing the same opposition as is Kennesaw State, Sam Houston and others.

If they didn't care about competition then JMU would not have been their first choice for expansion and App State and Georgia Southern would have never been invited. If anything, the Sun Belt cares more about competitiveness than CUSA who is obsessed with "media markets".

[Bisonator]

Would you like to deal with a school that has 80K students paying athletic fees? Liberty is the largest private non-profit university in the United States. Honestly, it's not fair that they are even in FCS. xeyebrowx i honestly think that 'conference invite' rule was made to keep them out of FBS. LFN makes a good argument in the blog.

They're not exactly dominating FCS. Like I said make it a 2 year deal then. I'm sure the rest of the Sunbelt could use an extra $1M or so.

[Baldy]

Usually I would agree with that thought process but in this case Liberty has their own TV network, more money than the others, and they have better attendance than your typical private school. Liberty would be a great addition. I know that NDSU would make zero sense in terms of geography but they or another power school would be a nice addition. Sun Belt fans don't want to hear this but going 11-1 or 10-2 overall and going undefeated in that league means nothing. There are some who think App State or GSU could have a big year. Both of them need to go 12-0 to even argue that they are a top 25 team. There is no team in the Sun Belt that is top 50-60 worthy in FBS right now. The league is very weak and could use some schools with money and/or who could step right in and be in the top 4 of the league right off the bat like GSU and App were able to do. If Georgia Southern were to finish the season at 12-0, they would most probably be a top 15 team. In order to go undefeated, they would have defeated two P5's in West Virginia and preseason top 10 and SEC East favorite UGA. Will that happen? Very doubtful. Other than NDSU, there are very few FCS teams who could step into the Sun Belt and be in the top 4, and Liberty certainly isn't one of them. The league is perceived as "very weak" because the bottom of the conference is just God awful. State, Idaho, and New Mexico State are nothing more than warm bodies filling slots. However, the top 4...Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Georgia Southern, and App are all on par with the top of the G5.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

After reading the article, it made me wonder. What is the plan for UMass???


1. AAC.
2. Wait for someone to leave the AAC.
3. See #1.

DFW forgot 4. Use the Power of Prayer to pray that #1 happens.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If Georgia Southern were to finish the season at 12-0, they would most probably be a top 15 team. In order to go undefeated, they would have defeated two P5's in West Virginia and preseason top 10 and SEC East favorite UGA. Will that happen? Very doubtful. Other than NDSU, there are very few FCS teams who could step into the Sun Belt and be in the top 4, and Liberty certainly isn't one of them. The league is perceived as "very weak" because the bottom of the conference is just God awful. State, Idaho, and New Mexico State are nothing more than warm bodies filling slots. However, the top 4...Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Georgia Southern, and App are all on par with the top of the G5.

If GSU went 12-0 and beat UGA, folks would turn around and believe UGA was overrated anyway and the same meme of "the Sun Belt sucks" would persist. Maybe in late November Condy Rice might slot in GSU in at 24 in the CFP poll, but they'd still lose out to 10-2 Boise State (#19) for the Big 6 bowl on reputation, because numbers have nothing anymore to do with picking the playoff teams (which affects the bowl slots).

- - - Updated - - -

Update. CCU on Sun Belt Invite: "We're Just Pals, We're Not Dating or Anything"

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article28445599.html

[Cocky]

Conference USA's west division champion lost to a non-playoff FCS team. What does that make that league? At least the Sun Belt's FCS loss came against a team in the cellar.

I pretty much agree with what Phil Steele said when he was interviewed by some Arkansas State radio guys recently….the Sun Belt has the worst cellar, but by and large there's no difference between the SBC, MAC, and CUSA.



If they didn't care about competition then JMU would not have been their first choice for expansion and App State and Georgia Southern would have never been invited. If anything, the Sun Belt cares more about competitiveness than CUSA who is obsessed with "media markets".

JMU and troy arent competing for too many recruits. troy is worried about losing recruits to JSU and rightful so.

GSU isnt a media market play? WKU is a media market play? Both are only worried about media markets not competition. EKU is under consideration because of entering the state of Kentucky and Coastal because you enter the state of South Carolina. Neither has much do about being a competitive member.

[Baldy]

If GSU went 12-0 and beat UGA, folks would turn around and believe UGA was overrated anyway and the same meme of "the Sun Belt sucks" would persist. Maybe in late November Condy Rice might slot in GSU in at 24 in the CFP poll, but they'd still lose out to 10-2 Boise State (#19) for the Big 6 bowl on reputation, because numbers have nothing anymore to do with picking the playoff teams (which affects the bowl slots).

- - - Updated - - -

Update. CCU on Sun Belt Invite: "We're Just Pals, We're Not Dating or Anything"

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article28445599.html
People say UGA is overrated every year, so that is nothing new, but a win against them in Athens along with a 12-0 record would put them in the Access Bowl slot against a 10-2 Boise team. xnodx
Similar thing happened last season with Marshall. They had the access bowl all but locked up, but laid a turn against Western Kentucky, and Marshall had a horrendously easy (no P5's) schedule.

[Baldy]

JMU and troy arent competing for too many recruits. troy is worried about losing recruits to JSU and rightful so.

GSU isnt a media market play? WKU is a media market play? Both are only worried about media markets not competition. EKU is under consideration because of entering the state of Kentucky and Coastal because you enter the state of South Carolina. Neither has much do about being a competitive member.
It's interesting to know that Georgia Southern and App were invited because of the Statesboro and Boone media markets. xlolx
That's a theory I've never heard before.xeyebrowx

[walliver]

It's interesting to know that Georgia Southern and App were invited because of the Statesboro and Boone media markets. xlolx
That's a theory I've never heard before.xeyebrowx

There is a post from several years ago where ASU's AD was trying to sell C-USA on App's TV market, claiming that ASU brought in the Winston-Salem-Greensboro market, the Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville market, and the Johnson City-Kingsport-Bristol market.

[Sandlapper Spike]

People say UGA is overrated every year, so that is nothing new, but a win against them in Athens along with a 12-0 record would put them in the Access Bowl slot against a 10-2 Boise team. xnodx
Similar thing happened last season with Marshall. They had the access bowl all but locked up, but laid a turn against Western Kentucky, and Marshall had a horrendously easy (no P5's) schedule.

I don't think Marshall was anywhere close to having an access bowl "locked up". Marshall was ranked by the CFP committee once, at #24 -- and was behind a 9-2 (at the time) Boise State team.

I think if Marshall had finished undefeated, Boise State would have still got the access bowl spot. That's how bad the Thundering Herd's schedule last season really was.

[bluehenbillk]

JMU? You hear the sound of train rolling by you? Welcome to the club...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think Marshall was anywhere close to having an access bowl "locked up". Marshall was ranked by the CFP committee once, at #24 -- and was behind a 9-2 (at the time) Boise State team.

I think if Marshall had finished undefeated, Boise State would have still got the access bowl spot. That's how bad the Thundering Herd's schedule last season really was.

We now live in a world where "schedule strength" is everything, but it's all perception. Marshall's schedule is "bad" because it is perceived that they are in a "bad" conference. If they beat a P5 school, the P5 school becomes "bad" because they lost to a school in a "bad" conference.

Suffice to say that if the CFP wants to exclude you, they'll invent a reason to put you below the 5th best team in the SEC.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

If GSU went 12-0 and beat UGA, folks would turn around and believe UGA was overrated anyway and the same meme of "the Sun Belt sucks" would persist. Maybe in late November Condy Rice might slot in GSU in at 24 in the CFP poll, but they'd still lose out to 10-2 Boise State (#19) for the Big 6 bowl on reputation, because numbers have nothing anymore to do with picking the playoff teams (which affects the bowl slots).

- - - Updated - - -

Update. CCU on Sun Belt Invite: "We're Just Pals, We're Not Dating or Anything"

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article28445599.html


If Northern Illinois can get ranked with a loss to a bad Iowa team, squeaking by Eastern illinois, and beating bad Kansas and Army teams, I feel we would get ranked if we start 4-0 or 5-0.

[FUBeAR]

I feel we would get ranked if we start 4-0 or 5-0.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC3JFVKJtyM

[Sandlapper Spike]

We now live in a world where "schedule strength" is everything, but it's all perception. Marshall's schedule is "bad" because it is perceived that they are in a "bad" conference. If they beat a P5 school, the P5 school becomes "bad" because they lost to a school in a "bad" conference.

Suffice to say that if the CFP wants to exclude you, they'll invent a reason to put you below the 5th best team in the SEC.

I think Marshall's schedule was perceived as bad because it was. Marshall's four non-conference games were against 6-6 Ohio, 5-7 Akron, 2-10 Miami University, and 1-11 (and FCS) Rhode Island. Prior to losing at home to Western Kentucky, Marshall had played 11 teams, only one of which (Rice) would finish the season with a winning record.

I know what you're saying about the political nature of perception, but sometimes perception is reality.

[Baldy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC3JFVKJtyM
Those 5 or 6 wins would include wins over 2 bowl teams, one of which would be a P5. Certainly not out of the realm of possibility. xnodx

[FUBeAR]

Those 5 or 6 wins would include wins over 2 bowl teams, one of which would be a P5. Certainly not out of the realm of possibility. xnodx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGyFWhnFREQ

[Baldy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGyFWhnFREQ
You have very bad taste in music. xnodx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCM9StU4tWI&list=PLeE1LjZ83P2p0g0OMPZA1xDo 3OKunKLcP

Be Proud FUBeAR. xthumbsupx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If Georgia Southern were to finish the season at 12-0, they would most probably be a top 15 team. In order to go undefeated, they would have defeated two P5's in West Virginia and preseason top 10 and SEC East favorite UGA. Will that happen? Very doubtful. Other than NDSU, there are very few FCS teams who could step into the Sun Belt and be in the top 4, and Liberty certainly isn't one of them. The league is perceived as "very weak" because the bottom of the conference is just God awful. State, Idaho, and New Mexico State are nothing more than warm bodies filling slots. However, the top 4...Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Georgia Southern, and App are all on par with the top of the G5.

Not even close.....

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Will this set off another round of conference shuffling? All these schools like App State that changed conferences when they moved up then try to go back to a more regional conference like moving back to the Southern Conference?

This is what I said a couple years ago when it was rolling is that at some point it may seem much better to realign things and then some of those teams might be jumping through hoops to get back to what they paid to get out of.

The SoCon is a weird one in this though cuz it's hard to guage where they would be/would want to be if things shake out as they might.

[dbackjon]

If Georgia Southern were to finish the season at 12-0, they would most probably be a top 15 team. In order to go undefeated, they would have defeated two P5's in West Virginia and preseason top 10 and SEC East favorite UGA. Will that happen? Very doubtful. Other than NDSU, there are very few FCS teams who could step into the Sun Belt and be in the top 4, and Liberty certainly isn't one of them. The league is perceived as "very weak" because the bottom of the conference is just God awful. State, Idaho, and New Mexico State are nothing more than warm bodies filling slots. However, the top 4...Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Georgia Southern, and App are all on par with the top of the FCS.

FTFY

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Not even close.....

Maybe not in terms of budget or attendance, but in terms of the quality of the product on the field, yes I would say that.

The gap between the G5 and the top of the FCS in terms of recruiting and talent is a mirage. Georgia Southern was pretty much a unanimous G5 top 10 in computer rankings with a bunch of FCS players.

[BisonFan02]

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd bye.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd bye.

Yes my friend but a quick note to all when/if you see a spammer.

Do not quote them and let their link live on in your post. Don't quote them at all probably be best.xthumbsupx

This board get hits really, really hard in July August when traffic starts to pick back up and I delete at least 50 or 60 fake account emails/day and I'll bet only 1 in maybe 200 gets through just to let you know the level of the problem these ****s are.

Thank you to all that report those posts immediately. It really helps me out a lot.:)xthumbsupx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Maybe not in terms of budget or attendance, but in terms of the quality of the product on the field, yes I would say that.

The gap between the G5 and the top of the FCS in terms of recruiting and talent is a mirage. Georgia Southern was pretty much a unanimous G5 top 10 in computer rankings with a bunch of FCS players.

You guys got dump trucked by a middling Navy team last year. I'll give you Top 10 in the computer rankings due to your record. The Eagles were better than expected. You guys played great against Georgia Tech. Still, the SBC inflated your record. Boise State, UCF, Memphis, Cincinnati, Marshall, ECU, Colorado State, Air Force and BYU were some of Top G5 teams iirc. GSU definitely would have fit in somewhere on the edge of the Top 10. Georgia Southern would probably be picked 8th in the AAC this year after Cincinnati, Memphis, UCF, ECU, Temple, Navy and Houston.

Recruiting right now isn't close either. The AAC schools are bringing in way more 3 and 4 star guys than the SBC. Houston recently landed a 5 star DT.

[BisonFan02]

Yes my friend but a quick note to all when/if you see a spammer.

Do not quote them and let their link live on in your post. Don't quote them at all probably be best.xthumbsupx

This board get hits really, really hard in July August when traffic starts to pick back up and I delete at least 50 or 60 fake account emails/day and I'll bet only 1 in maybe 200 gets through just to let you know the level of the problem these ****s are.

Thank you to all that report those posts immediately. It really helps me out a lot.:)xthumbsupx

Yeah...had thought about that after I hit post. Will just drop a note going forward. xthumbsupx

[Baldy]

You guys got dump trucked by a middling Navy team last year. I'll give you Top 10 in the computer rankings due to your record. The Eagles were better than expected. You guys played great against Georgia Tech. Still, the SBC inflated your record. Boise State, UCF, Memphis, Cincinnati, Marshall, ECU, Colorado State, Air Force and BYU were some of Top G5 teams iirc. GSU definitely would have fit in somewhere on the edge of the Top 10. Georgia Southern would probably be picked 8th in the AAC this year after Cincinnati, Memphis, UCF, ECU, Temple, Navy and Houston.

Recruiting right now isn't close either. The AAC schools are bringing in way more 3 and 4 star guys than the SBC. Houston recently landed a 5 star DT.
When you take into consideration that we beat Florida and lost to bowl teams NC State and Orange Bowl Champs Georgia Tech on the last drive of the game, Navy was an aberration. Funny you say that we would be picked 8th in the AAC when we have already been picked ahead of many of those teams in preseason rankings this year already. You are entitled to your opinion, tho...

It's interesting you bring up recruiting against those teams, too. Currently, Boise is ranked 56th, Georgia Southern 68th. Not that big of a difference at all. I also probably shouldn't mention that we are currently ahead of most every other team you mentioned...ECU, Temple, Navy, UCF, Colorado State, Marshall, etc. The same can be said for the 2015 class as well.

Just to give you a little perspective. In FCS, Georgia Southern was a perennial top 5 recruiter. It was a great year to sign 12 players with stars. Even better if we signed 2, 3, or 4 kids who were rated 3-star players by a recruiting service. Last year alone we signed 12 COMPOSITE 3 star players...meaning they averaged 3 stars by every national recruiting service (24/7, ESPN, Rivals, and Scout).

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

When you take into consideration that we beat Florida and lost to bowl teams NC State and Orange Bowl Champs Georgia Tech on the last drive of the game, Navy was an aberration. Funny you say that we would be picked 8th in the AAC when we have already been picked ahead of many of those teams in preseason rankings this year already. You are entitled to your opinion, tho...

It's interesting you bring up recruiting against those teams, too. Currently, Boise is ranked 56th, Georgia Southern 68th. Not that big of a difference at all. I also probably shouldn't mention that we are currently ahead of most every other team you mentioned...ECU, Temple, Navy, UCF, Colorado State, Marshall, etc. The same can be said for the 2015 class as well.

Just to give you a little perspective. In FCS, Georgia Southern was a perennial top 5 recruiter. It was a great year to sign 12 players with stars. Even better if we signed 2, 3, or 4 kids who were rated 3-star players by a recruiting service. Last year alone we signed 12 COMPOSITE 3 star players...meaning they averaged 3 stars by every national recruiting service (24/7, ESPN, Rivals, and Scout).

The Florida game, and I said it when it happened, was more about Florida than it was GSU at the time. GSU was a quality transitional FCS team while Florida was going through their worst period since Galen Halen was head coach. The GSU loss was basically the true beginning of the end for Muschamp at Florida.

GSU has shown to be competitive but I think it's all relative. Their early loss against Georgia Tech is probably the most significant thing they accomplished last year. The Yellow Jackets turned into a damn good team, easily the best on the Eagles schedule. A moral victory against NC State means nothing. This year GSU starts out with a solid but not spectacular WVU team in Morgantown. If the Eagles want to stop being confused with Georgia State in the FBS world that's a game you guys need to win. I don't seen GSU stopping WVU enough to pull of the W. It should be high scoring and fun to watch.

One of the reason GSU is high-up in the computer rankings is wins. You guys were able to rack up wins by playing bad teams. To suggest preseason computer rankings translates into where you be picked in a particular conference is crazy. There's so many other variables that go into it a conference pecking order. The AAC and MWC are much better leagues than the SBC. SBC='s PFFL of FCS, that's the reality.

When you start ranking classes after the Top 20/25 it's irrelevant. It's all about 2 or 3 difference makers that you can get either via transfer, Gunner Keil, or recruiting like Houston and their 5* DT. None of the G5 schools will ever kill it in the recruiting rankings. Boise State has been doing it with 2 and 3 star guys, a couple transfer/Juco guys and great coaching for over a decade. Likewise with Bill Snyder and Kansas State.

I just think Georgia Southern has an uphill battle. You guys still have facility issues which is causing problems with scheduling quality/interesting OOC home games. Your coach and his assistants are going to want to get paid very soon if the wins keep piling up. I don't see where the resources are going to come from in order for Georgia Southern to take the next step from being a decent FBS team in terrible conference to one that's actually taken seriously by the FBS world. A schedule like this isn't going to cut it....

2015 Georgia Southern Schedule - There's six wins (Idaho, Citadel, UL Monroe, NM State, Troy, Georgia State) by simply having a pulse....
@ WVU
Western Michigan
The Citadel
@ Idaho
@ UL-Monroe
bye
New Mexico State
@ App State
Texas State
@ Troy
@ Georgia
South Alabama
Georgia State

[BisonFan02]

The Florida game, and I said it when it happened, was more about Florida than it was GSU at the time. GSU was a quality transitional FCS team while Florida was going through their worst period since Galen Halen was head coach. The GSU loss was basically the true beginning of the end for Muschamp at Florida.

GSU has shown to be competitive but I think it's all relative. Their early loss against Georgia Tech is probably the most significant thing they accomplished last year. The Yellow Jackets turned into a damn good team, easily the best on the Eagles schedule. A moral victory against NC State means nothing. This year GSU starts out with a solid but not spectacular WVU team in Morgantown. If the Eagles want to stop being confused with Georgia State in the FBS world that's a game you guys need to win. I don't seen GSU stopping WVU enough to pull of the W. It should be high scoring and fun to watch.

One of the reason GSU is high-up in the computer rankings is wins. You guys were able to rack up wins by playing bad teams. To suggest preseason computer rankings translates into where you be picked in a particular conference is crazy. There's so many other variables that go into it a conference pecking order. The AAC and MWC are much better leagues than the SBC. SBC='s PFFL of FCS, that's the reality.

When you start ranking classes after the Top 20/25 it's irrelevant. It's all about 2 or 3 difference makers that you can get either via transfer, Gunner Keil, or recruiting like Houston and their 5* DT. None of the G5 schools will ever kill it in the recruiting rankings. Boise State has been doing it with 2 and 3 star guys, a couple transfer/Juco guys and great coaching for over a decade. Likewise with Bill Snyder and Kansas State.

I just think Georgia Southern has an uphill battle. You guys still have facility issues which is causing problems with scheduling quality/interesting OOC home games. Your coach and his assistants are going to want to get paid very soon if the wins keep piling up. I don't see where the resources are going to come from in order for Georgia Southern to take the next step from being a decent FBS team in terrible conference to one that's actually taken seriously by the FBS world. A schedule like this isn't going to cut it....

2015 Georgia Southern Schedule - There's six wins (Idaho, Citadel, UL Monroe, NM State, Troy, Georgia State) by simply having a pulse....
@ WVU
Western Michigan
The Citadel
@ Idaho
@ UL-Monroe
bye
New Mexico State
@ App State
Texas State
@ Troy
@ Georgia
South Alabama
Georgia State

A real "murderers row" of competition there....

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The Florida game, and I said it when it happened, was more about Florida than it was GSU at the time. GSU was a quality transitional FCS team while Florida was going through their worst period since Galen Halen was head coach. The GSU loss was basically the true beginning of the end for Muschamp at Florida.

GSU has shown to be competitive but I think it's all relative. Their early loss against Georgia Tech is probably the most significant thing they accomplished last year. The Yellow Jackets turned into a damn good team, easily the best on the Eagles schedule. A moral victory against NC State means nothing. This year GSU starts out with a solid but not spectacular WVU team in Morgantown. If the Eagles want to stop being confused with Georgia State in the FBS world that's a game you guys need to win. I don't seen GSU stopping WVU enough to pull of the W. It should be high scoring and fun to watch.

One of the reason GSU is high-up in the computer rankings is wins. You guys were able to rack up wins by playing bad teams. To suggest preseason computer rankings translates into where you be picked in a particular conference is crazy. There's so many other variables that go into it a conference pecking order. The AAC and MWC are much better leagues than the SBC. SBC='s PFFL of FCS, that's the reality.

When you start ranking classes after the Top 20/25 it's irrelevant. It's all about 2 or 3 difference makers that you can get either via transfer, Gunner Keil, or recruiting like Houston and their 5* DT. None of the G5 schools will ever kill it in the recruiting rankings. Boise State has been doing it with 2 and 3 star guys, a couple transfer/Juco guys and great coaching for over a decade. Likewise with Bill Snyder and Kansas State.

I just think Georgia Southern has an uphill battle. You guys still have facility issues which is causing problems with scheduling quality/interesting OOC home games. Your coach and his assistants are going to want to get paid very soon if the wins keep piling up. I don't see where the resources are going to come from in order for Georgia Southern to take the next step from being a decent FBS team in terrible conference to one that's actually taken seriously by the FBS world. A schedule like this isn't going to cut it....

2015 Georgia Southern Schedule - There's six wins (Idaho, Citadel, UL Monroe, NM State, Troy, Georgia State) by simply having a pulse....
@ WVU
Western Michigan
The Citadel
@ Idaho
@ UL-Monroe
bye
New Mexico State
@ App State
Texas State
@ Troy
@ Georgia
South Alabama
Georgia State

I could buy into the idea that wins helped us get rankings if we weren't so strong early in the season. Up until the last 3 games (when just by watching Kevin Ellison I think you could tell his throwing shoulder was getting kind of bad) we won all but one conference game by double digits and are just a couple of plays away from having more P5 wins than the entire AAC. If you don't think we weren't a top 10 G5 team early in the season you weren't watching us.

BTW, it should be obvious, but I don't think by any means we magically become a better team just by slapping the FBS label on ourselves. I have no doubt that (for example) NDSU could take their 2007 and 2011-2013 teams (maybe more) and be a top 5 G5 team. If you buy into recruiting rankings and players ratings we are getting better talent than NDSU and pretty much any FCS team (don't believe that). If you bought into recruiting rankings you would've said we'd have no chance to win games in the SBC because we have fewer "star" players than all of our conference mates who have been i the FBS longer than us (obviously ridiculous).

One of two things is true regarding Georgia Southern and App State's first season in FBS...

1. The supposed gap in talent and recruiting between the G5 and the FCS is largely a myth.

2. Our first season proves we have a very high ceiling. If you buy into what recruiting websites say, we are doing better recruiting than we were as an FCS team.

Obviously I favor #1 and have made that pretty clear here.

BTW, if the SBC is the PFL of the FBS, what does that make CUSA? They are basically full of ex-FCS schools and FBS ne'er do wells. Am I supposed to be envious of not being in their league and not being able to play powerhouses like Charlotte, FAU, FIU, North Texas, and UTSA? LoL.

[Baldy]

The Florida game, and I said it when it happened, was more about Florida than it was GSU at the time. GSU was a quality transitional FCS team while Florida was going through their worst period since Galen Halen was head coach. The GSU loss was basically the true beginning of the end for Muschamp at Florida.

GSU has shown to be competitive but I think it's all relative. Their early loss against Georgia Tech is probably the most significant thing they accomplished last year. The Yellow Jackets turned into a damn good team, easily the best on the Eagles schedule. A moral victory against NC State means nothing. This year GSU starts out with a solid but not spectacular WVU team in Morgantown. If the Eagles want to stop being confused with Georgia State in the FBS world that's a game you guys need to win. I don't seen GSU stopping WVU enough to pull of the W. It should be high scoring and fun to watch.

One of the reason GSU is high-up in the computer rankings is wins. You guys were able to rack up wins by playing bad teams. To suggest preseason computer rankings translates into where you be picked in a particular conference is crazy. There's so many other variables that go into it a conference pecking order. The AAC and MWC are much better leagues than the SBC. SBC='s PFFL of FCS, that's the reality.

When you start ranking classes after the Top 20/25 it's irrelevant. It's all about 2 or 3 difference makers that you can get either via transfer, Gunner Keil, or recruiting like Houston and their 5* DT. None of the G5 schools will ever kill it in the recruiting rankings. Boise State has been doing it with 2 and 3 star guys, a couple transfer/Juco guys and great coaching for over a decade. Likewise with Bill Snyder and Kansas State.

I just think Georgia Southern has an uphill battle. You guys still have facility issues which is causing problems with scheduling quality/interesting OOC home games. Your coach and his assistants are going to want to get paid very soon if the wins keep piling up. I don't see where the resources are going to come from in order for Georgia Southern to take the next step from being a decent FBS team in terrible conference to one that's actually taken seriously by the FBS world. A schedule like this isn't going to cut it....

2015 Georgia Southern Schedule - There's six wins (Idaho, Citadel, UL Monroe, NM State, Troy, Georgia State) by simply having a pulse....
@ WVU
Western Michigan
The Citadel
@ Idaho
@ UL-Monroe
bye
New Mexico State
@ App State
Texas State
@ Troy
@ Georgia
South Alabama
Georgia State

Pwns pretty much hit the mark, but there are a few points that need to be highlighted. Facility wise we do need to continue improving, but that is true in every level of football. Paulson Stadium has been almost totally transformed over the past two years. We do need to add a few thousand more seats before we will be able to bring in upper echelon G5 and middle of the road P5's to Statesboro. However, when it comes to facilities in regards to recruits and what they are looking for, we are in the top levels of the G5. The #1 advantage we have over Boise or Marshall or ECU and virtually every other G5 is the fact that Georgia Southern is located in the heart of the most fertile recruiting ground in the country. That advantage is not going away and can't be equaled by other programs.

[superman7515]

The #1 advantage we have over Boise or Marshall or ECU and virtually every other G5 is the fact that Georgia Southern is located in the heart of the most fertile recruiting ground in the country.

Georgia Southern moved to Texas?

[Baldy]

Georgia Southern moved to Texas?
No. Has Texas lost any of it's 20 Division I programs?

[superman7515]

No. Has Texas lost any of it's 20 Division I programs?

Nope. Nor have they lost any of the more than double Division 1 recruits over Georgia that make Texas far-and-away a more fertile recruiting ground.

[AshevilleApp2]

Nope. Nor have they lost any of the more than double Division 1 recruits over Georgia that make Texas far-and-away a more fertile recruiting ground.

I expect he's including Florida there.

[Baldy]

Nope. Nor have they lost any of the more than double Division 1 recruits over Georgia that make Texas far-and-away a more fertile recruiting ground.
Almost double the Division I recruits, but 3X the number of Division I programs. Any way you try to spin it, your math is still wrong.

[Baldy]

I expect he's including Florida there.
Since Statesboro is only 2 hours from Florida, and so many of our recruits hail from the Sunshine State, I was, in fact, including Florida (naturally). Georgia and Florida combined dwarf Texas in the number of Division I recruits and combined have less Division I football programs. All that equals to the most fertile recruiting area for college football, hands down. xsalutex

[superman7515]

Almost double the Division I recruits, but 3X the number of Division I programs. Any way you try to spin it, your math is still wrong.

No spin needed, double is more.


Since Statesboro is only 2 hours from Florida, and so many of our recruits hail from the Sunshine State, I was, in fact, including Florida (naturally). Georgia and Florida combined dwarf Texas in the number of Division I recruits and combined have less Division I football programs. All that equals to the most fertile recruiting area for college football, hands down. xsalutex

So Texas only counts Texas recruits, but Georgia counts Florida recruits also to help them over the hump. Got it.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Pwns pretty much hit the mark, but there are a few points that need to be highlighted. Facility wise we do need to continue improving, but that is true in every level of football. Paulson Stadium has been almost totally transformed over the past two years. We do need to add a few thousand more seats before we will be able to bring in upper echelon G5 and middle of the road P5's to Statesboro. However, when it comes to facilities in regards to recruits and what they are looking for, we are in the top levels of the G5. The #1 advantage we have over Boise or Marshall or ECU and virtually every other G5 is the fact that Georgia Southern is located in the heart of the most fertile recruiting ground in the country. That advantage is not going away and can't be equaled by other programs.

I'm not sure what the actual value of that is. It doesn't help FAU, FIU, Troy State (located in SE Alabama) and it hasn't helped Georgia State yet. The talent only matters if you can land it and develop it. I think the coaching, in general at the SBC level is subpar. The SBC has the raw talent but the MAC, now and historically, have the better coaches. When it's all said and done the two conferences on the field performances are rather equal. For the most part, the SBC teams have been bumbling around with relatively low ceilings. Especially in terms of teams being ranked.

I don't see how Georgia Southern is going to be able to keep coaches in place long enough to succeed at a level that actually matters.

Boise State had a plan that goes back to hosting NCAA tournament games in the early 1990's. That was done in order to make the school, city and state visible. The light went on rather quickly that the smart money was not on the school in Moscow to put Idaho collegiate athletics on the map. For that reason, the Idaho Potato Bowl was pure genius. Football in Idaho, with a blue turf? That's what everyone thought in the late 90's when the bowl game first started. The Broncos had accomplished nothing to that point at the 1A level so few people knew about their team. All of the visibility gave BSU a ton of additional revenue in an era that was vastly different. As a result, BSU has been able to compensate their coaches (even basketball) at a fairly high level. Their facilities in football and basketball are really nice as well.

Will Georgia Southern ever have the power/political pull within the state to fund the program at the level needed to truly succeed at the FBS level? In 1AA and FCS you can get by with smoke and mirrors. That's not the case in FBS.

[AshevilleApp2]

I'm not sure what the actual value of that is. It doesn't help FAU, FIU, Troy State (located in SE Alabama) and it hasn't helped Georgia State yet. The talent only matters if you can land it and develop it. I think the coaching, in general at the SBC level is subpar. The SBC has the raw talent but the MAC, now and historically, have the better coaches. When it's all said and done the two conferences on the field performances are rather equal. For the most part, the SBC teams have been bumbling around with relatively low ceilings. Especially in terms of teams being ranked.

I don't see how Georgia Southern is going to be able to keep coaches in place long enough to succeed at a level that actually matters.







Boise State had a plan that goes back to hosting NCAA tournament games in the early 1990's. That was done in order to make the school, city and state visible. The light went on rather quickly that the smart money was not on the school in Moscow to put Idaho collegiate athletics on the map. For that reasons, the Idaho Potato Bowl was pure genius. Football in Idaho, with a blue turf? That's what everyone thought in the late 90's when the bowl game first started. All of that gave BSU a ton of additional revenue in an era that was vastly different. As a result, BSU has been able to compensate their coaches (even basketball) at a fairly high level.

Will Georgia Southern ever have the power/political pull within the state to fund the program at the level needed to truly succeed at the FBS level? In 1AA and FCS you can get by with smoke and mirrors. That's not the case in FBS.

I guess that leads to the question of what constitutes success at the FBS level?

[Baldy]

No spin needed, double is more.
So are 3X the number of programs.
Keep trying. xrotatehx


So Texas only counts Texas recruits, but Georgia counts Florida recruits also to help them over the hump. Got it.
Since Statesboro is closer to North Florida than it is to Metro Atlanta and North Georgia, yes it does. Add to that Texas is 5...6 times bigger than Georgia and Florida combined but has roughly 1/2 the number of Division 1 recruits, our territory is much much more fertile than Texas.

I love your fight, but you're really struggling with this.

[superman7515]

So are 3X the number of programs.
Keep trying. xrotatehx


Since Statesboro is closer to North Florida than it is to Metro Atlanta and North Georgia, yes it does. Add to that Texas is 5...6 times bigger than Georgia and Florida combined but has roughly 1/2 the number of Division 1 recruits, our territory is much much more fertile than Texas.

I love your fight, but you're really struggling with this.

It's cool, we're on the same page. It's a d-ck measuring contest where yours isn't big enough to beat the top dog, but your buddy is standing right there, so if you put them tip-to-tip, it's totally bigger now. I get ya.

[Baldy]

I'm not sure what the actual value of that is. It doesn't help FAU, FIU, Troy State (located in SE Alabama) and it hasn't helped Georgia State yet. The talent only matters if you can land it and develop it. I think the coaching, in general at the SBC level is subpar. The SBC has the raw talent but the MAC, now and historically, have the better coaches. When it's all said and done the two conferences on the field performances are rather equal. For the most part, the SBC teams have been bumbling around with relatively low ceilings. Especially in terms of teams being ranked.

I don't see how Georgia Southern is going to be able to keep coaches in place long enough to succeed at a level that actually matters.

Boise State had a plan that goes back to hosting NCAA tournament games in the early 1990's. That was done in order to make the school, city and state visible. The light went on rather quickly that the smart money was not on the school in Moscow to put Idaho collegiate athletics on the map. For that reason, the Idaho Potato Bowl was pure genius. Football in Idaho, with a blue turf? That's what everyone thought in the late 90's when the bowl game first started. The Broncos had accomplished nothing to that point at the 1A level so few people knew about their team. All of the visibility gave BSU a ton of additional revenue in an era that was vastly different. As a result, BSU has been able to compensate their coaches (even basketball) at a fairly high level. Their facilities in football and basketball are really nice as well.

Will Georgia Southern ever have the power/political pull within the state to fund the program at the level needed to truly succeed at the FBS level? In 1AA and FCS you can get by with smoke and mirrors. That's not the case in FBS.
The F_U's and GA State are new programs with no history or tradition, so they are going to have a hard time recruiting. Troy has struggled over the past few years, but have won the conference multiple times and have wins over Missouri, Oklahoma State, and Mississippi State on their resume.

Not sure why you say we won't be able to keep coaches. That phenomenon is nothing new at the G5 or FCS level. We won 6 I-AA titles with 3 different coaches, Arkansas State won 3 straight conference titles and went to 3 straight bowl games with 3 different coaches in 3 years. That is the nature of the beast at the G5 and FCS level of football...coaches leave. The good part is that now if a program wants to poach Fritz, its going to cost them a $2+ Million buyout to do it. We will be able to get us a very nice new coach with that money.

OK, we all know Boise has done a great job. Not sure what your point is there.

Political pull or power doesn't matter in Georgia. By law, not one cent of taxpayer money goes into college athletics in this state.

[Baldy]

It's cool, we're on the same page. It's a d-ck measuring contest where yours isn't big enough to beat the top dog, but your buddy is standing right there, so if you put them tip-to-tip, it's totally bigger now. I get ya.
You're the only one trying to measure dicks, and why you're trying to measure some other guy's dick is what I can't understand. Doesn't matter though, it's legal now. xlolx

Georgia Southern is close to Florida and we recruit Florida very heavily. Hell, we have 2 jerseys retired and both of those players came from Florida. It's only logical to include it in our recruiting footprint. It's the advantage of being in the middle of the most fertile recruiting ground in the country. :)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The F_U's and GA State are new programs with no history or tradition, so they are going to have a hard time recruiting. Troy has struggled over the past few years, but have won the conference multiple times and have wins over Missouri, Oklahoma State, and Mississippi State on their resume.

Not sure why you say we won't be able to keep coaches. That phenomenon is nothing new at the G5 or FCS level. We won 6 I-AA titles with 3 different coaches, Arkansas State won 3 straight conference titles and went to 3 straight bowl games with 3 different coaches in 3 years. That is the nature of the beast at the G5 and FCS level of football...coaches leave. The good part is that now if a program wants to poach Fritz, its going to cost them a $2+ Million buyout to do it. We will be able to get us a very nice new coach with that money.

OK, we all know Boise has done a great job. Not sure what your point is there.

Political pull or power doesn't matter in Georgia. By law, not one cent of taxpayer money goes into college athletics in this state.

Some of the G5 schools can absolutely keep their coaches. George O'Leary (UCF), Bronco Mendenhall (BYU), Niumatalolo (Navy), Solich(Ohio), Calhoun (Air Force), McNeill (ECU), Long (SDSU) are all guys who have been successful for at least 5 years at their current G5 gig. Some have been there much longer than that. There's not a SBC coach that comes close to those guys in quality tenure. There's more guys with quality tenure in FCS than there is in the SBC. Talley, Beu Baldwin, Laycock, Murphy, Farley, Ash etc. have decided to stay despite many opportunities to leave. Several of the G5 schools have the money to pay their football AND basketball coaches legit salaries. No one in the SBC can come close to doing that.

Arkansas State accomplished very little outside of the SBC with Freeze, Malzahn and Harsin. Arky State's OOC performances were dreadful even then...

The land that Georgia Southern is now in is very much very much different than FCS. The amount of resources it takes to compete is insane. There's a tremendous amount of red tape and invisible hurdles to navigate in order to succeed. Until GSU beats a notable opponent and strings together 3-4 legit seasons that have national relevance the Eagles are going to remain off of the radar nationally.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It's cool, we're on the same page. It's a d-ck measuring contest where yours isn't big enough to beat the top dog, but your buddy is standing right there, so if you put them tip-to-tip, it's totally bigger now. I get ya.

BOOM
BOOM
OUT GO THE LIGHTS! xlolx

[Go...gate]

Why not Liberty?

[AshevilleApp2]

Why not Liberty?

I agree.

[Cocky]

Why not Liberty?
Liberty has too many $$$$.

[Baldy]

Some of the G5 schools can absolutely keep their coaches. George O'Leary (UCF), Bronco Mendenhall (BYU), Niumatalolo (Navy), Solich(Ohio), Calhoun (Air Force), McNeill (ECU), Long (SDSU) are all guys who have been successful for at least 5 years at their current G5 gig. Some have been there much longer than that. There's not a SBC coach that comes close to those guys in quality tenure. There's more guys with quality tenure in FCS than there is in the SBC. Talley, Beu Baldwin, Laycock, Murphy, Farley, Ash etc. have decided to stay despite many opportunities to leave. Several of the G5 schools have the money to pay their football AND basketball coaches legit salaries. No one in the SBC can come close to doing that.

Arkansas State accomplished very little outside of the SBC with Freeze, Malzahn and Harsin. Arky State's OOC performances were dreadful even then...

The land that Georgia Southern is now in is very much very much different than FCS. The amount of resources it takes to compete is insane. There's a tremendous amount of red tape and invisible hurdles to navigate in order to succeed. Until GSU beats a notable opponent and strings together 3-4 legit seasons that have national relevance the Eagles are going to remain off of the radar nationally.
O'Leary has a huge red flag on his resume (pardon the pun). It's doubtful any other team would want him, especially now since he is 68 years old. The age situation can be said for Solich who is almost 71. Mendenhall is a Utah boy and a devout Morman, so I would be surprised to see him go anywhere, ever. Besides, BYU is in G5-P5 no mans land and will most likely be in a P5 conference the next time there is conference reshuffling. As for Long, he's been SDSU's coach for only 4 years and before that he was a less than stellar <.500 coach in 10 seasons at New Mexico...oh and he also is now old enough to be on Medicare as well. Ruffin McNeil played at ECU and that could very well possibly be his dream job. He's been a good coach there, but certainly hasn't set the world on fire either. Niumatalolo and Calhoun both have the same problem. They are option coaches, and unless you're Paul Johnson, you are not going to be hired at a P5 school and run the option, period.

For every Beau Baldwin or Jimmie Laycock there are 10 Paul Johnson's or Craig Bohl's or Mike Londons or David Baliffs or Joe Glenns or Rich Ellersons or Jeff Monkens or Hal Mummes or Pete Lembos or Jerry Kills or Bobby Haucks or Paul Wulffs or Jim Harbaughs or Trent Miles' or Chip Kellys or Mike Denneheys etc. etc. etc. Coaches staying at a FCS or a G5 because they want to stay and not leaving for a better paying job at a higher profile school are the ultra rare exceptions to the rule.

OK, the only P5 team Ark State beat during that time was Texas A&M. So?

Thanks, but I don't need the lecture as to what Georgia Southern is facing in FBS land. We have doubled our budget over the last couple of years. Athletic Foundation membership and donations have increased significantly since the move as well as season ticket purchases. Just last week we signed a 15 year $11+ Million deal with Learfield Sports for our multimedia rights. In your opinion we might be under the radar, but compared to where we were in the SoCon we are Air Force 1 cruising at 35,000 feet.

[Baldy]

I agree.
I don't really have a problem with Liberty either, but I'm sure it has to do with the Falwell stigma. I know they are trying their best to get past it now, but it will take time.

[Sitting Bull]

I think the problem for the Sun Belt at this point is they are running out of schools who would possibly want to join based on the single ambition of claiming "FBS" football.

Face it, beyond the FBS carrot (which neither JMU and Liberty found attractive enough for such a move), the Sun Belt doesn't offer much else. Their basketball is sub par, they have a stretched field now of schools with little tradition against each other and as result, the all other sports are greatly varied. Sports popular on the Atlantic Coast - such as lacrosse and field hockey - don't resonate west of the Appalachians.

When you are left trying to entertain a Big South member for membership, it's getting pretty obvious the allure is starting to shrivel, pretty weak.

And if the P5 really separates (which they should and will), the football carrot will be meaningless. Schools will want to move back to regional, all sport conferences that provide budget contro and fan interest.

[Lehigh'98]

When you take into consideration that we beat Florida and lost to bowl teams NC State and Orange Bowl Champs Georgia Tech on the last drive of the game, Navy was an aberration. Funny you say that we would be picked 8th in the AAC when we have already been picked ahead of many of those teams in preseason rankings this year already. You are entitled to your opinion, tho...

It's interesting you bring up recruiting against those teams, too. Currently, Boise is ranked 56th, Georgia Southern 68th. Not that big of a difference at all. I also probably shouldn't mention that we are currently ahead of most every other team you mentioned...ECU, Temple, Navy, UCF, Colorado State, Marshall, etc. The same can be said for the 2015 class as well.

Just to give you a little perspective. In FCS, Georgia Southern was a perennial top 5 recruiter. It was a great year to sign 12 players with stars. Even better if we signed 2, 3, or 4 kids who were rated 3-star players by a recruiting service. Last year alone we signed 12 COMPOSITE 3 star players...meaning they averaged 3 stars by every national recruiting service (24/7, ESPN, Rivals, and Scout).

Sorry Owl, but GSU >> Temple.
Temple had 2 decent wins against Vanderbilt and ECU. Other than that, they were awful last year. GSU would have housed them with their running attack.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Sorry Owl, but GSU >> Temple.
Temple had 2 decent wins against Vanderbilt and ECU. Other than that, they were awful last year. GSU would have housed them with their running attack.

Temple's defense was really good but our offense was dreadful. GSU would likely have been a 7 point favorite in Vegas. Temple was 6-6 so terrible is hyperbole.

Not sure what Temple has to do with anything. Expectations are high for the year and we're in a better spot overall.

[Baldy]

I think the problem for the Sun Belt at this point is they are running out of schools who would possibly want to join based on the single ambition of claiming "FBS" football.

Face it, beyond the FBS carrot (which neither JMU and Liberty found attractive enough for such a move), the Sun Belt doesn't offer much else. Their basketball is sub par, they have a stretched field now of schools with little tradition against each other and as result, the all other sports are greatly varied. Sports popular on the Atlantic Coast - such as lacrosse and field hockey - don't resonate west of the Appalachians.

When you are left trying to entertain a Big South member for membership, it's getting pretty obvious the allure is starting to shrivel, pretty weak.

And if the P5 really separates (which they should and will), the football carrot will be meaningless. Schools will want to move back to regional, all sport conferences that provide budget contro and fan interest.
Once conference championship game deregulation passes, there won't be any desire to add teams for football purposes only. The main reason the Sun Belt is talking to EKU and CCU is to find a travel partner for App and to get back to 12 teams for non-football sports. They are made even more attractive because they do have football and can easily slide into the conference once their programs make the needed improvements.

Don't hold your breath in regards to the P5 breaking away anytime soon. Teams like Iowa State, Kansas, Wake Forest, Vandy, Indiana, Illinois, Duke etc., who load their OOC schedules with G5 and FCS teams won't stand for it. It's hard enough now for them to become bowl eligible now, so they're not going shoot themselves in the foot and make it even harder.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Once conference championship game deregulation passes, there won't be any desire to add teams for football purposes only. The main reason the Sun Belt is talking to EKU and CCU is to find a travel partner for App and to get back to 12 teams for non-football sports. They are made even more attractive because they do have football and can easily slide into the conference once their programs make the needed improvements.

Don't hold your breath in regards to the P5 breaking away anytime soon. Teams like Iowa State, Kansas, Wake Forest, Vandy, Indiana, Illinois, Duke etc., who load their OOC schedules with G5 and FCS teams won't stand for it. It's hard enough now for them to become bowl eligible now, so they're not going shoot themselves in the foot and make it even harder.

Who ever said the P5 was ever going to get rid of OOC games? They will always need home opponents to make more money. Now bowl access, that's different. The P5 has every incentive to prevent the G5 from accessing the lucrative bowls (I.e. the CFP games and certain other Big 6 bowls) and preventing their .500 teams from accepting other, non-moneymaking bowls.

[SENOREIDA]

I think the problem for the Sun Belt at this point is they are running out of schools who would possibly want to join based on the single ambition of claiming "FBS" football.

Face it, beyond the FBS carrot (which neither JMU and Liberty found attractive enough for such a move), the Sun Belt doesn't offer much else. Their basketball is sub par, they have a stretched field now of schools with little tradition against each other and as result, the all other sports are greatly varied. Sports popular on the Atlantic Coast - such as lacrosse and field hockey - don't resonate west of the Appalachians.

When you are left trying to entertain a Big South member for membership, it's getting pretty obvious the allure is starting to shrivel, pretty weak.

And if the P5 really separates (which they should and will), the football carrot will be meaningless. Schools will want to move back to regional, all sport conferences that provide budget contro and fan interest.
There is a lot of problems with this statement to me. First you claim Liberty was invited and turned it down. That is not true, Liberty was seeking membership and the Sun Belt didn't want them at the time. Second, you state no one wants a Big South school, but you said that they wanted Liberty. Third overall Coastal has been far superior to Liberty in male athletics. And it's not even close, and it's not even just football. Soccer, basketball, and baseball are on completely different levels. Fourth, the Big South is not what it used to be. It is actually a pretty decent football conference now. Let go of your assumptions of Big South football, considering they went 2-1 against the CAA in the postseason last year. Flat out embarrassed the SoCon and held their own against the MVFC. Coastal meshes well with the SBC. Would be a geographical fit, bringing a great Men's athletic program and a football team with potential. Yes, I understand some people are upset that a school with not a lot of history has grown so much athletically, that they get articles in USA Today about their athletic program being outstanding, despite their size.

[Lehigh'98]

Temple's defense was really good but our offense was dreadful. GSU would likely have been a 7 point favorite in Vegas. Temple was 6-6 so terrible is hyperbole.

Not sure what Temple has to do with anything. Expectations are high for the year and we're in a better spot overall.

I quoted the wrong post. You had one listing 8-9 teams ranked ahead of GSU, one being Temple.

[knucklehead]

I'll say it again. Liberty is the most ready of all the schools discussed. They are being kept out of the Sun Belt for 2 reasons: Liberty's money, and Public vs Private IMHO.

[Sitting Bull]

There is a lot of problems with this statement to me. First you claim Liberty was invited and turned it down. That is not true, Liberty was seeking membership and the Sun Belt didn't want them at the time. Second, you state no one wants a Big South school, but you said that they wanted Liberty. Third overall Coastal has been far superior to Liberty in male athletics. And it's not even close, and it's not even just football. Soccer, basketball, and baseball are on completely different levels. Fourth, the Big South is not what it used to be. It is actually a pretty decent football conference now. Let go of your assumptions of Big South football, considering they went 2-1 against the CAA in the postseason last year. Flat out embarrassed the SoCon and held their own against the MVFC. Coastal meshes well with the SBC. Would be a geographical fit, bringing a great Men's athletic program and a football team with potential. Yes, I understand some people are upset that a school with not a lot of history has grown so much athletically, that they get articles in USA Today about their athletic program being outstanding, despite their size.

Did not mean any slight on Coastal. I have always thought they would be a possible option for the CAA at some point.

My point was the Sun Belt looking to fill an FBS slot with a school that has a stadium seating 10,000 and average attendance below that. Sorry, but that's not even close to the lowest of FBS standards.

As far as Liberty, I really don't know what the flirtation there might be. All I do know is they now have among the best facilities in FCS, average well over 15,000 per game and continue to grow their profile. If the Sun Belt declined looking at this option because of some narrow minded opinion of the school itself, then that's one more strike against the Sun Belt in my view.

[knucklehead]

Well said on LU and the SBC. I totally agree.

[Baldy]

Who ever said the P5 was ever going to get rid of OOC games? They will always need home opponents to make more money. Now bowl access, that's different. The P5 has every incentive to prevent the G5 from accessing the lucrative bowls (I.e. the CFP games and certain other Big 6 bowls) and preventing their .500 teams from accepting other, non-moneymaking bowls.
That's nice, but we'll worry about that when the current arrangement expires 11 years from now.

[Baldy]

There is a lot of problems with this statement to me. First you claim Liberty was invited and turned it down. That is not true, Liberty was seeking membership and the Sun Belt didn't want them at the time. Second, you state no one wants a Big South school, but you said that they wanted Liberty. Third overall Coastal has been far superior to Liberty in male athletics. And it's not even close, and it's not even just football. Soccer, basketball, and baseball are on completely different levels. Fourth, the Big South is not what it used to be. It is actually a pretty decent football conference now. Let go of your assumptions of Big South football, considering they went 2-1 against the CAA in the postseason last year. Flat out embarrassed the SoCon and held their own against the MVFC. Coastal meshes well with the SBC. Would be a geographical fit, bringing a great Men's athletic program and a football team with potential. Yes, I understand some people are upset that a school with not a lot of history has grown so much athletically, that they get articles in USA Today about their athletic program being outstanding, despite their size.
Well said. Since conference champ game deregulation is pretty much a done deal, the Sun Belt's priority right now is finding a 12 member school for basketball and Olympic sports. Coastal is head and shoulders above Liberty in that regard. Very good basketball, great baseball, golf and soccer. The icing on the cake is the football program. They aren't ready now, but will be in a few years if they dedicate themselves to it.

[SENOREIDA]

You can put lipstick on a pig, doesn't make it pretty. In terms of Liberty, sure they have great facilities, but what has that equated to? They finally crossed the FCS playoff hurdle. Struggle to in basketball and haven't treaded water in baseball until now. Plus their soccer team isn't that great. Facilities are great and all, but has nothing to do if a team can compete or not.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You can put lipstick on a pig, doesn't make it pretty. In terms of Liberty, sure they have great facilities, but what has that equated to? They finally crossed the FCS playoff hurdle. Struggle to in basketball and haven't treaded water in baseball until now. Plus their soccer team isn't that great. Facilities are great and all, but has nothing to do if a team can compete or not.

Wasn't Liberty in the men's NCAA Tourney just a few years ago? Also, in women's hoops I think Liberty has downright dominated the BSC.

[knucklehead]

Wasn't Liberty in the men's NCAA Tourney just a few years ago? Also, in women's hoops I think Liberty has downright dominated the BSC.

Yes on Men's bball in the tourney 3 years ago. Then it fell off and we have a new coach. Women have won the BSC and the NCAA bid 16 of the last 17 years I believe.

[Go...gate]

I don't really have a problem with Liberty either, but I'm sure it has to do with the Falwell stigma. I know they are trying their best to get past it now, but it will take time.

That is sad. Like Falwell or not, those youngsters put in the substantial effort and discipline to play Division I football on the highest possible level while getting a college education, and they put their pads and helmets on every week and play to win like the rest of us.

[CasualFan]

I wanted to post a reply to those that say Liberty's sports program does not compare to CCU's. Below are the winners of the Sasser Cup, given to the top athletic program in the Big South. Also included are the top men's and women's programs, which was first awarded in 2003-04. I think these are reasonably fair representations of the strength of the programs. Points are scored based on a NASCAR-like formula where each sport is a race. I figured I'd make it easy and go ahead and emphasize the one team that isn't CCU or Liberty. Liberty really is a power in Big South sports.



Year
Sasser Cup
Women's All Sports
Men's All Sports




14-15


13-14


12-13


11-12


10-11


09-10


08-09


07-08


06-07


05-06


04-05


03-04


02-03


01-02


00-01


99-00


98-99


97-98





CCU


CCU


Liberty


Liberty


Liberty


Liberty


Liberty


Liberty


CCU


CCU


CCU


CCU


Liberty


Liberty


CCU


Liberty


Liberty


Liberty





CCU


CCU


CCU


Liberty


CCU


CCU


Liberty


Liberty


Winthrop


CCU


Liberty


Liberty


-


-


-


-


-


-





Liberty


CCU


Liberty


Liberty


Liberty


Liberty


CCU


Liberty


CCU


CCU


CCU


CCU


-


-


-


-


-


-






I did stop at 1997-98 because the UNC-Greensboro and Campbell won for a three years in a row each before here. Here's a link to the source: http://www.bigsouthsports.com/entries/george-f-buddy-sasser-cup-champions-131062

It's amazing to me that no FBS conference has extended an invite to Liberty. I get the reasons posted, but I think the benefits they would bring would outweigh them. I would hate to see them go. I enjoy the rivalry.

[knucklehead]

Well done CasualFan. Thanks for the support. It's been a lot of fun, and much better recently for LU. Can't wait for the game up here this year. Your boys will want last year back for sure.

I also think bigger things are coming for both. In LU's corner, we are already seeing a payoff from the playoff appearance and the FCOA. Liberty already has 9 verbal commitments for 2016 one a 3 star QB from Miami with offers from FIU and SoFl as well as big interest from Miami.

[tigonian02]

Well done CasualFan. Thanks for the support. It's been a lot of fun, and much better recently for LU. Can't wait for the game up here this year. Your boys will want last year back for sure.

I also think bigger things are coming for both. In LU's corner, we are already seeing a payoff from the playoff appearance and the FCOA. Liberty already has 9 verbal commitments for 2016 one a 3 star QB from Miami with offers from FIU and SoFl as well as big interest from Miami.

Personally, I'm all for Liberty, CCU, JSU, or JMU coming to the SBC. 3 of those 4 would get us into a new state. The other would make the sun belt alabama centralized. I understand the argument that troy and s. alabama have against this, but JSU can come in and compete. Screw betting on market potential and schools that "could" be good one day. I think all 4 of these guys are easily better than the bottom 4 in our conference currently.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Personally, I'm all for Liberty, CCU, JSU, or JMU coming to the SBC. 3 of those 4 would get us into a new state. The other would make the sun belt alabama centralized. I understand the argument that troy and s. alabama have against this, but JSU can come in and compete. Screw betting on market potential and schools that "could" be good one day. I think all 4 of these guys are easily better than the bottom 4 in our conference currently.

What is the SBC's goal as a conference? Is it to be a anything more than a feeder conference? I don't see how the long standing members like Arkansas State, the UL's and Troy put up with this constant instability. The goal has to be to trying to position the conference for the G5 Access-Bowl spot and becoming a multi bid conference in hoops. I understand the success in baseball but that resonates only so much. Adding some of these schools is not going to increase SOS or national respect.

The SBC is the child hood story, The Puppy Who Lost His Way.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The goal has to be to trying to position the conference for the G5 Access-Bowl spot and becoming a multi bid conference in hoops.

If that's the goal, they've got a looooooooong way to go, especially on the hoops front.

[Mr. C]

It's interesting to know that Georgia Southern and App were invited because of the Statesboro and Boone media markets. xlolx
That's a theory I've never heard before.xeyebrowx
:D

Ironically, there were less media members covering App State home games last year than I can ever remember. Having returned to Boone for the first time in eight years and resuming regular beat coverage of the Mountaineers, it was really shocking. A bunch of the dailies in the state that used to staff ASU home games and also travel to plenty of road games instead relied on pool coverage and using stories from the Winston-Salem Journal. Even the local print newspaper, the Watauga Democrat failed to travel to most of the Sun Belt road games.

[Mr. C]

If Georgia Southern were to finish the season at 12-0, they would most probably be a top 15 team. In order to go undefeated, they would have defeated two P5's in West Virginia and preseason top 10 and SEC East favorite UGA. Will that happen? Very doubtful. Other than NDSU, there are very few FCS teams who could step into the Sun Belt and be in the top 4, and Liberty certainly isn't one of them. The league is perceived as "very weak" because the bottom of the conference is just God awful. State, Idaho, and New Mexico State are nothing more than warm bodies filling slots. However, the top 4...Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Georgia Southern, and App are all on par with the top of the G5.
After a year of covering Sun Belt teams regularly, I was shocked at how bad the offensive line and defensive line play was for the established teams. That was one of the major reasons why App State and Georgia Southern played so well in the Sun Belt last year. App State was terrible out of conference and lost at home to Liberty — a result I predicted before the season. I saw a number of teams in FCS last year that I thought would have competed well in the Sun Belt last season, Villanova, North Dakota State, Illinois State, Eastern Washington, New Hampshire and maybe a few others.

[centennial]

After a year of covering Sun Belt teams regularly, I was shocked at how bad the offensive line and defensive line play was for the established teams. That was one of the major reasons why App State and Georgia Southern played so well in the Sun Belt last year. App State was terrible out of conference and lost at home to Liberty — a result I predicted before the season. I saw a number of teams in FCS last year that I thought would have competed well in the Sun Belt last season, Villanova, North Dakota State, Illinois State, Eastern Washington, New Hampshire and maybe a few others.
You mean win the Sun Belt? Outside of GSU the top of the FCS would win most contests against the Sun Belt teams. All this when you don't consider the scholarship differential.

[rokamortis]

That is sad. Like Falwell or not, those youngsters put in the substantial effort and discipline to play Division I football on the highest possible level while getting a college education, and they put their pads and helmets on every week and play to win like the rest of us.

Even taking out the politics / mission; a conference has to be able to ensure that a new member is a good fit and will work well with all others. It's just like a job interview, there have been people who have had all of the qualifications but I knew just wouldn't fit with everyone else.

Here is one example of Liberty going its own way. Liberty is offering full Cost of Attendance this year to all sports - I believe the only FCS school. The athletes and school will have an advantage over all of the other football teams now but especially as they continue to offer full COA and differentiate from all of the other FCS schools. Some conferences may not want to deal with a team that has a seemingly unlimited budget and will use it gain a competitive advantage.



“Truthfully, I thought it was unfair,” Chadwell said. “I thought, with us being in a football conference, you’ve got seven teams and six of them are not going to do it and one can because they have the capability, I feel like you should not let one rule the conference, personally.


“I think each place has advantages and disadvantages. Liberty and Coastal have most of the advantages as it is. When you add something like that, it makes it harder for the have nots to consistently compete with people who are giving more and more and more.

“Obviously, as a conference, we don’t think that way. But what can you do? You can either complain, or you can accept it and move on. So we’re going to accept it and move on and understand that’s how it is.”



"There’s no doubt that the full COA mandate has paid immediate dividends in recruiting for Liberty, which has already secured nine oral commitments for the class of 2016, an unusually high number for an FCS program at this stage of the recruiting process. Minnesota kicking prospect Alex Probert committed earlier this month, and he cited full COA as a major factor in his decision.

“Distance is a factor and I told myself going into recruiting that distance is just a number,” Probert told Scout.com (http://scout.com/). “But I just decided because Liberty offers the full cost of attendance of $6,000 a year, I can budget that out for flights home, and my parents will pay to fly me home too, so stuff like that."

http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liberty_university/cost-of-attendance-a-hot-topic-at-big-south-media/article_3314a092-36fe-11e5-8d44-6bf6e751cbfc.html

[knucklehead]

Even taking out the politics / mission; a conference has to be able to ensure that a new member is a good fit and will work well with all others. It's just like a job interview, there have been people who have had all of the qualifications but I knew just wouldn't fit with everyone else.

Here is one example of Liberty going its own way. Liberty is offering full Cost of Attendance this year to all sports - I believe the only FCS school. The athletes and school will have an advantage over all of the other football teams now but especially as they continue to offer full COA and differentiate from all of the other FCS schools. Some conferences may not want to deal with a team that has a seemingly unlimited budget and will use it gain a competitive advantage.



http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liberty_university/cost-of-attendance-a-hot-topic-at-big-south-media/article_3314a092-36fe-11e5-8d44-6bf6e751cbfc.html

Chadwell must be in the "everyone gets a trophy crowd". If there is no rule against it, LU desires to be at the highest level, and they can do it; then do it. Just because others can't or won't do it, shouldn't preclude LU from doing something perfectly legit. Why worry about what the conference they want to leave thinks if there is no rule against it in the conference?

[rokamortis]

Chadwell must be in the "everyone gets a trophy crowd". If there is no rule against it, LU desires to be at the highest level, and they can do it; then do it. Just because others can't or won't do it, shouldn't preclude LU from doing something perfectly legit. Why worry about what the conference they want to leave thinks if there is no rule against it in the conference?

Liberty is perfectly within its right to offer COA. The Sun Belt is perfectly within its right not to invite Liberty. Some people don't like what Liberty is doing. Some people don't like what the Sun Belt is doing. Both are perfectly legit.

[knucklehead]

Liberty is perfectly within its right to offer COA. The Sun Belt is perfectly within its right not to invite Liberty. Some people don't like what Liberty is doing. Some people don't like what the Sun Belt is doing. Both are perfectly legit.

The SunBelt's decision to omit LU, was well before LU's FCOA decision.

[rokamortis]

The SunBelt's decision to omit LU, was well before LU's FCOA decision.

Ok. I never said the Sun Belt chose not to invite Liberty because of COA. I said that the Sun Belt has the right to invite members that are like minded and then provided an example of Liberty doing something that is to their benefit but to the disadvantage of the rest of their current conference and have at least one coach upset.

My point, just to make it even more clear, is that Liberty has been pretty bold in its actions the past few years so perhaps the Sun Belt decided it wasn't in their best interest to align themselves with the school. That's my speculation but regardless, the Sun Belt is perfectly within their right to invite who they want to. Just like the Ivy, Patriot, CAA, SoCon, ... have the right to align themselves with schools that they choose.

[Sandlapper Spike]

The Big South already has widely differentiated programs in terms of advantages/disadvantages as it is. I'm not sure COA is much different, from that perspective, than Liberty having great facilities and Charleston Southern having very poor facilities.

If what Liberty is doing in terms of COA strikes Chadwell as "unfair", then what would he like LU to do in terms of its football stadium or basketball arena? Downsize?

[rokamortis]

The Big South already has widely differentiated programs in terms of advantages/disadvantages as it is. I'm not sure COA is much different, from that perspective, than Liberty having great facilities and Charleston Southern having very poor facilities.

If what Liberty is doing in terms of COA strikes Chadwell as "unfair", then what would he like LU to do in terms of its football stadium or basketball arena? Downsize?

I think that's his point, he mentioned Coastal and Liberty already having advantages. Liberty has more staff than anyone, best facilities, bigger budget than most, their own network - now they can give kids $6K to go there. Probably just the tipping point for him since it is cash in the pocket of the student - especially with Liberty being the only FCS school announcing that they would be doing it in 2015.

[clenz]

I think that's his point, he mentioned Coastal and Liberty already having advantages. Liberty has more staff than anyone, best facilities, bigger budget than most, their own network - now they can give kids $6K to go there. Probably just the tipping point for him since it is cash in the pocket of the student - especially with Liberty being the only FCS school announcing that they would be doing it in 2015.
It helps to diploma mill yourself to online programs at $500 per credit hour....for online programs....no campus resources are being put into that...just $500 per credit hour to have someone log on to their site.

Do the math on that...in strictly tuition alone, no other fees, that is a minimum of $12k per student in profit for that university. They have over 95K enrolled online. Quick math shows 1.14 BILLION DOLLARS pure profit from the online program......PER YEAR

Must be nice to be the online diploma mill for Christian nuts wanting a divinity degree

[Bam]

As a EKU alum and supporter I think the lack of fan support will hinder the possible move up?xsmhx

[CasualFan]

For starters, I'd be surprised if they average 12 credits per semester. Non-traditional students usually take at most 2 classes per semester, which cuts your estimate in half. I'd be willing to bet a bunch of them do it one class at a time.

Next, it's not pure profit. A quick Google search says Liberty has a maximum class size of 25 people. Using your $500/credit, that's $37,500 per class if we assume every class is full (unlikely). Faculty pay varies wildly, $2,700 (median adjunct pay per class) to about $7,000 (avg salary per class for a professor of theology, assuming a 3/4 load). Add another $10,000 for administrative overhead, and call it $15k in expenses per class on average.

So, $37,500 - $15,000 = $22,500 profit per 25 student class. Two class average per student, $45k/25 students = $1.8k per student. Times your 95k students = $171 million profit. Let's be generous and call it $200 million.

Not that $200 million is terrible, but it sure as heck isn't $1.14 billion.

[rokamortis]

Here are the details for Liberty's the 2013-14 academic year, 2014-15 hasn't been released yet. http://www.dacbond.com/dacContent/doc.jsp?id=0900bbc7801398e3

They awarded over a $1 BILLION dollars in financial aid from all sources.

They only generated $321 million in profit but that takes out all expenses and isn't just the direct instructional cost. They can choose to buy lots of nice things, pay people very well, hire more staff than other schools and it will impact the bottom line.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here are the details for Liberty's the 2013-14 academic year, 2014-15 hasn't been released yet. http://www.dacbond.com/dacContent/doc.jsp?id=0900bbc7801398e3

They awarded over a $1 BILLION dollars in financial aid from all sources.

They only generated $321 million in profit but that takes out all expenses and isn't just the direct instructional cost. They can choose to buy lots of nice things, pay people very well, hire more staff than other schools and it will impact the bottom line.

Repeat: does this sound like an FCS school to anybody?

[superman7515]

It helps to diploma mill yourself to online programs at $500 per credit hour....for online programs....no campus resources are being put into that...just $500 per credit hour to have someone log on to their site.

Do the math on that...in strictly tuition alone, no other fees, that is a minimum of $12k per student in profit for that university. They have over 95K enrolled online. Quick math shows 1.14 BILLION DOLLARS pure profit from the online program......PER YEAR

Must be nice to be the online diploma mill for Christian nuts wanting a divinity degree


Easy on the online envy, haha. I've taken some online courses through Eastern Kentucky, they have a great Fire Science program that fits around the rotating fire/EMS schedules.

[CasualFan]

Here are the details for Liberty's the 2013-14 academic year, 2014-15 hasn't been released yet. http://www.dacbond.com/dacContent/doc.jsp?id=0900bbc7801398e3

They awarded over a $1 BILLION dollars in financial aid from all sources.

They only generated $321 million in profit but that takes out all expenses and isn't just the direct instructional cost. They can choose to buy lots of nice things, pay people very well, hire more staff than other schools and it will impact the bottom line.
The key is all sources. That $1 billion dollars isn't money they have laying around that they can give to anyone, it includes almost $700 million in federal and private loans to students.

The actual amount of aid from the institution was $193 million.

[rokamortis]

The key is all sources. That $1 billion dollars isn't money they have laying around that they can give to anyone, it includes almost $700 million in federal and private loans to students.

The actual amount of aid from the institution was $193 million.

That's not helping the argument - where do you think most of that money goes?

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2015/07/Liberty-final-02-1024x685.png&w=800


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/07/15/liberty-university-a-hub-of-conservative-politics-owes-rapid-growth-to-federal-student-loans/

[dbackjon]

Easy on the online envy, haha. I've taken some online courses through Eastern Kentucky, they have a great Fire Science program that fits around the rotating fire/EMS schedules.

Which is a real degree, with real dividends that will make it easy for someone to pay back a student loan. Unlike getting a $40K Master of Religious Musical Education, and getting a $10 hour youth children's choir director job.

- - - Updated - - -


That's not helping the argument - where do you think most of that money goes?

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2015/07/Liberty-final-02-1024x685.png&w=800


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/07/15/liberty-university-a-hub-of-conservative-politics-owes-rapid-growth-to-federal-student-loans/


Perfect example as to why no school that gets Federal Aid should be able to discriminate on ANY basis.

[CasualFan]

I don't disagree that they are a big player. My point was that they don't have a billion dollars to throw at football.

[rokamortis]

I don't disagree that they are a big player. My point was that they don't have a billion dollars to throw at football.

I agree. I think my point didn't help - I was just trying to say you can't look at the bottom line profit either. At this point I think they are just trying to find ways to spend it that fit within their "mission". They aren't doing too bad turning a 30% profit.

[Cocky]

Repeat: does this sound like an FCS school to anybody?
The Ivys

[Hammer Head]

Based on what I have been reading the Sunbelt Commish has specificially said the conference is looking for a travel partner for Appalachian. He was quoted by media sources saying expansion was no longer about football. After being asked repeatedly Benson did admit EKU and Coastal had been in contact with them. The reality is that could mean they called asking what they needed to do to be considered. I doubt EKU or Coastal are remotely close to being prepared for FBS.

The only two schools that fit Benson's criteria are UNC Greensboro and Winthrop. Both are within 2 hours driving distance to Boone and situated near a major airport.

[SENOREIDA]

Based on what I have been reading the Sunbelt Commish has specificially said the conference is looking for a travel partner for Appalachian. He was quoted by media sources saying expansion was no longer about football. After being asked repeatedly Benson did admit EKU and Coastal had been in contact with them. The reality is that could mean they called asking what they needed to do to be considered. I doubt EKU or Coastal are remotely close to being prepared for FBS.

The only two schools that fit Benson's criteria are UNC Greensboro and Winthrop. Both are within 2 hours driving distance to Boone and situated near a major airport.
Winthrop wouldn't be up to par in sports in my opinion, all they really have is a basketball program. And that basketball program hasn't been dominating lately. Also don't see Winthrop leaving the Big South, even if Liberty and Coastal were to bolt.

[ekufbfan]

Based on what I have been reading the Sunbelt Commish has specificially said the conference is looking for Ka travel partner for Appalachian. He was quoted by media sources saying expansion was no longer about football. After being asked repeatedly Benson did admit EKU and Coastal had been in contact with them. The reality is that could mean they called asking what they needed to do to be considered. I doubt EKU or Coastal are remotely close to being prepared for FBS.

The only two schools that fit Benson's criteria are UNC Greensboro and Winthrop. Both are within 2 hours driving distance to Boone and situated near a major airport.


hahaha, Murray State fan. Do you READ the news paper, do you live near EKU, obviously not, or you would KNOW that EKU has been working toward this for sometime! I love it when someone pipes in with their "expert" opinion when in actuality then know nothing. The SBC has visited EKU in July. They told us what needed to be addressed. That being the football stadium, baseball and softball stadiums. Work has already started on the football stadium. Plans/renderings have been made public for both baseball and football.

[rokamortis]

Based on what I have been reading the Sunbelt Commish has specificially said the conference is looking for a travel partner for Appalachian. He was quoted by media sources saying expansion was no longer about football. After being asked repeatedly Benson did admit EKU and Coastal had been in contact with them. The reality is that could mean they called asking what they needed to do to be considered. I doubt EKU or Coastal are remotely close to being prepared for FBS.

The only two schools that fit Benson's criteria are UNC Greensboro and Winthrop. Both are within 2 hours driving distance to Boone and situated near a major airport.

I don't think his comments mean that the team won't have football. I think he's setting expectations that the team will have some work to do before the football team transitions. They do need another team for Olympic sports for a travel partner for App State and to create divisions to make travel a little easier. So while football isn't the priority, it is still a factor.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

hahaha, Murray State fan. Do you READ the news paper, do you live near EKU, obviously not, or you would KNOW that EKU has been working toward this for sometime! I love it when someone pipes in with their "expert" opinion when in actuality then know nothing. The SBC has visited EKU in July. They told us what needed to be addressed. That being the football stadium, baseball and softball stadiums. Work has already started on the football stadium. Plans/renderings have been made public for both baseball and football.

I've kept track of this from afar. What would the SBC accomplish buy adding EKU? I'm not taking a shot at EKU but the school is about 20-30 miles away from UK. It's a slightly less "towering over" problem than EMU faces with the other Big Blue.

While the history in football is very good, they've at best been solid over the last 15 years or so. I don't see how this makes the SBC a better conference and climb the G5 pecking order.

[jsnow84]

I don't see Coastal being able to qualify for the SBC for a long time. It will take 12-18 months to get the required funding approved for the facilities that will be needed. Then another 1-2 years to build them. They have a very good sports program, but relatively poor fan support. Don't see them being able to support the budget necessary for FBS.

[Hammer Head]

hahaha, Murray State fan. Do you READ the news paper, do you live near EKU, obviously not, or you would KNOW that EKU has been working toward this for sometime! I love it when someone pipes in with their "expert" opinion when in actuality then know nothing. The SBC has visited EKU in July. They told us what needed to be addressed. That being the football stadium, baseball and softball stadiums. Work has already started on the football stadium. Plans/renderings have been made public for both baseball and football.

You bust on me then confirm what I wrote? Neat concept. As I said, your administration has reached out to the SB and they said what needed to be done to be a candidate for admission. That doesn't mean EKU will be admitted. My post was about nonfootball travel schools for App. Not how undeserving EKU is of membership. Lighten up man.

[catamount man]

Sun Belt folks won't like to hear this, but only one current FCS school has the money, the support from both fans and administration, and the facilities to have ALREADY been in the SBC and that is Liberty University. LU is covering FCOA for all sports, the only FCS school to do so. It makes sense to me and others but LU is being shunned because of the late Jerry Falwell which makes no sense. You're gonna penalize a school over how one man felt about a plethora of topics?

[Hammer Head]

I don't think his comments mean that the team won't have football. I think he's setting expectations that the team will have some work to do before the football team transitions. They do need another team for Olympic sports for a travel partner for App State and to create divisions to make travel a little easier. So while football isn't the priority, it is still a factor.

Exactly. I did not say another football member would never be added. Only right now the conference is clearly focused on a travel partner for Appalachian.

[dgtw]

Everyone on the Sun Belt board is wetting themselves over CCU for some reason. I know message boards carry zero weight in the decision, I'm just saying.

If I were the Sun Belt, I'd approach C-USA about getting together and realigning the leagues into a western league and an eastern league. Right now they cover the same basic area and this would save a ton on travel. It would also help build more regional rivalries.


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[ekufbfan]

You bust on me then confirm what I wrote? Neat concept. As I said, your administration has reached out to the SB and they said what needed to be done to be a candidate for admission. That doesn't mean EKU will be admitted. My post was about nonfootball travel schools for App. Not how undeserving EKU is of membership. Lighten up man.

You said, I doubt that EKU or CCU are anyway ready for FBS. Maybe, it's all in the way one reads 'conjecture'. Your seem to be implying that this process has NOT been thought about, studied and acted on. If I misunderstood your message, so be it. We are already one of two "candidates". On the other hand, I did NOT say EKU would "be admitted". There is most likely a good probability it won't be us, it's hard to compete with a ocean/beach vacation. I do understand Murray fans "attitude" :D though, EKU is moving forward regardless, and will have the best overall facilities in the OVC, IF that's where our immediate future is. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[SU DOG]

Just my opinion, but I think CCU is just a back-up last resort for the SBC in case Eastern KY decided for some reason to decline an invite. It's no secret that the conference was embarrassed when they dealt with JMU, and they don't want a recurrence of another similar embarrassing situation. I think EKU, which publicly stated a desire to go FBS, is the only real target. As has been stated, a travel partner for App State, who is on an island there, is the underlying reason for any of these discussions, and football while important, is not the major issue. Getting this travel partner for so many other sports is.

[knucklehead]

Sun Belt folks won't like to hear this, but only one current FCS school has the money, the support from both fans and administration, and the facilities to have ALREADY been in the SBC and that is Liberty University. LU is covering FCOA for all sports, the only FCS school to do so. It makes sense to me and others but LU is being shunned because of the late Jerry Falwell which makes no sense. You're gonna penalize a school over how one man felt about a plethora of topics?

Thanks, It has me scratching my head at times as well, but we are used to it. It's just silly to hear them talk about what CCU and EKU have to improve, when another FCS school has already checked all the boxes. It's like choosing a tough Sirloin because it looks like the Ribeye has a bit too much fat. I don't really know the reason since no one is saying. I would guess it's public vs private and LU's $, but that just seems narrow minded to me.

[AshevilleApp2]

Sun Belt folks won't like to hear this, but only one current FCS school has the money, the support from both fans and administration, and the facilities to have ALREADY been in the SBC and that is Liberty University. LU is covering FCOA for all sports, the only FCS school to do so. It makes sense to me and others but LU is being shunned because of the late Jerry Falwell which makes no sense. You're gonna penalize a school over how one man felt about a plethora of topics?

I agree. I'm no fan of what Jerry Falwell espoused, but that shouldn't be a factor in whether a school should join a conference. The ACC has no problem with Notre Dame as a member, and many people disagree with the Catholic Church's positions.

[clenz]

I agree. I'm no fan of what Jerry Falwell espoused, but that shouldn't be a factor in whether a school should join a conference. The ACC has no problem with Notre Dame as a member, and many people disagree with the Catholic Church's positions.
If the schools mission and values don't match the existing schools it will be pretty damn tough to get an invitation

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[AshevilleApp2]

If the schools mission and values don't match the existing schools it will be pretty damn tough to get an invitation

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Apparently so. I wouldn't have a problem with Liberty, and their mission and values don't exactly line up with mine. But I don't make those decisions.

[centennial]

Thanks, It has me scratching my head at times as well, but we are used to it. It's just silly to hear them talk about what CCU and EKU have to improve, when another FCS school has already checked all the boxes. It's like choosing a tough Sirloin because it looks like the Ribeye has a bit too much fat. I don't really know the reason since no one is saying. I would guess it's public vs private and LU's $, but that just seems narrow minded to me.
Not only is it about money but also what the university stands for. LU is riding the online diploma mill hard, and without it, it has no business in the FBS. Academically, it is not a fit in the FBS, plus the religious affiliation really scares the schools. They do not want to become a platform for LU to propagate it's ideas.

[clenz]

Apparently so. I wouldn't have a problem with Liberty, and their mission and values don't exactly line up with mine. But I don't make those decisions.
Liberty has the exact same problem as BYU minus the century plus of proven athletics and academics. BYU still struggles to find a home and are Big West in all sports except football because the left the conference that had grown to mostly accept them because they thought they were above that conference.

Turns out conferences, and other schools, don't want to align with schools built on extremes in ideology who have an extreme sense of self righteousness and arrogance. Is this starting to sound like any FCS programs yet?

BYU can't find a football home because they A-think they don't need one and B-cant get anyone other than the Big West to deal with their ****.

Liberty's founder's beliefs being held against them today might not be entirely fair BUT those are still exactly what the university stands for, and I don't blame others for not wanting to be forced into being associated with thwm

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[AshevilleApp2]

Liberty has the exact same problem as BYU minus the century plus of proven athletics and academics. BYU still struggles to find a home and are Big West in all sports except football because the left the conference that had grown to mostly accept them because they thought they were above that conference.

Turns out conferences, and other schools, don't want to align with schools built on extremes in ideology who have an extreme sense of self righteousness and arrogance. Is this starting to sound like any FCS programs yet?

BYU can't find a football home because they A-think they don't need one and B-cant get anyone other than the Big West to deal with their ****.

Liberty's founder's beliefs being held against them today might not be entirely fair BUT those are still exactly what the university stands for, and I don't blame others for not wanting to be forced into being associated with thwm

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That's fine. If the SBC schools don't want to associate with Liberty, they shouldn't get the invite. I honestly don't give a rip who gets invited.

[centennial]

Liberty has the exact same problem as BYU minus the century plus of proven athletics and academics. BYU still struggles to find a home and are Big West in all sports except football because the left the conference that had grown to mostly accept them because they thought they were above that conference.

Turns out conferences, and other schools, don't want to align with schools built on extremes in ideology who have an extreme sense of self righteousness and arrogance. Is this starting to sound like any FCS programs yet?

BYU can't find a football home because they A-think they don't need one and B-cant get anyone other than the Big West to deal with their ****.

Liberty's founder's beliefs being held against them today might not be entirely fair BUT those are still exactly what the university stands for, and I don't blame others for not wanting to be forced into being associated with thwm

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So last year we had a fan voting contest against BYU. They stopped classes and threw pizza parties on campus, made their missionaries and people they are converting in Africa, South America and Asia vote for them for hours every day. Literally, had 100's of people voting most of the day. Never do I want to deal with their fans again.
Edit: The winner made 100k. It was NCAA sanctioned.

[clenz]

So last year we had a fan voting contest against BYU. They stopped classes and threw pizza parties on campus, made their missionaries and people they are converting in Africa, South America and Asia vote for them for hours every day. Literally, had 100's of people voting most of the day. Never do I want to deal with their fans again.
Edit: The winner made 100k. It was NCAA sanctioned.
Yup.

BYU is more a cult than an institution of higher learning.

Most view Liberty the same way....mostly because Liberty is just BYU Jr

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[Baldy]

My only problem with Liberty is not necessarily the Falwell stigma. The Sun Belt is made entirely up of like minded larger and growing regional public universities. Something Liberty certainly isn't. I think App and GSU are both a little gun shy and had enough of being in a small minded private school dominated conference.

[ekufbfan]

This is pure conjecture based on what I have read, however, all that money that Liberty has to spend on the "best facilities" and are "ready now" to move to FBS was made primarily as an online university. Maybe now they have moved away from a primary online college. Although they are now selling themselves as a more traditional university, just like everyone else, the perception is still there. You can't forget they made zillions as a online diploma mill and now have all that $$$ to spend while trying to act like as if they have always been a traditional state university whose stock is so great because of their academic prowess and alumni giving because of their great on campus four years of college. I just don't think folks are buying into that.

[centennial]

This is pure conjecture based on what I have read, however, all that money that Liberty has to spend on the "best facilities" and are "ready now" to move to FBS was made primarily as an online university. Maybe now they have moved away from a primary online college. Although they are now selling themselves as a more traditional university, just like everyone else, the perception is still there. You can't forget they made zillions as a online diploma mill and now have all that $$$ to spend while trying to act like as if they have always been a traditional state university whose stock is so great because of their academic prowess and alumni giving because of their great on campus four years of college. I just don't think folks are buying into that.
Without online and the diploma mill they are a FCS school. Ranked 80th as a Southern Regional university. They do not belong in the Sun Belt academically at all. EKU is only ranked 62nd as a Regional Southern university, but you guys don't have the religious tag, so it might be acceptable. EKU would be 3rd worst academically. Liberty would arguably be the worst academic school.

[clenz]

They still have about 100k online students. They can try to say they are now a traditional university, but it is in no way true.

The are no different than Grand Canyon or University of Phoenix or Kaplan or Capella

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[knucklehead]

They still have about 100k online students. They can try to say they are now a traditional university, but it is in no way true.

The are no different than Grand Canyon or University of Phoenix or Kaplan or Capella

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Liberty is a Much different place than it was even 5 years ago in many ways. They turn away tons of on campus students every year because for years the City of Lynchburg capped them from building new dorms. That is all over now and 1 new huge dorm Commons is already and a second will be open soon. 2 ore scheduled after that. They are already at 14K on campus and will be at close to 20K within a few short years. Stand alone Academic buildings are popping up all over, and the campus it looking amazing.

Most of those saying LU saying on campus is secondary, just haven't been there. LU was an on campus school well before being in on line at all. They also have no idea how different LU is now. as a 91 alum, I'll say it is way different. Bob Jones is NO different. Anyway, stop by and visit. I'll give the tour, and you will be very surprised.

[centennial]

Liberty is a Much different place than it was even 5 years ago in many ways. They turn away tons of on campus students every year because for years the City of Lynchburg capped them from building new dorms. That is all over now and 1 new huge dorm Commons is already and a second will be open soon. 2 ore scheduled after that. They are already at 14K on campus and will be at close to 20K within a few short years. Stand alone Academic buildings are popping up all over, and the campus it looking amazing.

Most of those saying LU saying on campus is secondary, just haven't been there. LU was an on campus school well before being in on line at all. They also have no idea how different LU is now. as a 91 alum, I'll say it is way different. Bob Jones is NO different. Anyway, stop by and visit. I'll give the tour, and you will be very surprised.
That might be true, however the growth comes from selling degrees with low academic standards. In that way LU is the same as University of Phoenix. We all know LU had a campus before online. The point that everyone is making is just because LU rode the gravy train and stepped into online education at the right time does not make you a fit. You will stay outsiders to nationally ranked universities, until you higher the academic standards for online and campus, dramatically increase research activity, and stop using education as an avenue for religious agenda.

[Hammer Head]

You said, I doubt that EKU or CCU are anyway ready for FBS. Maybe, it's all in the way one reads 'conjecture'. Your seem to be implying that this process has NOT been thought about, studied and acted on. If I misunderstood your message, so be it. We are already one of two "candidates". On the other hand, I did NOT say EKU would "be admitted". There is most likely a good probability it won't be us, it's hard to compete with a ocean/beach vacation. I do understand Murray fans "attitude" :D though, EKU is moving forward regardless, and will have the best overall facilities in the OVC, IF that's where our immediate future is. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

How do you translate doubting either team is nowhere ready for FBS into "this process has NOT been thought about, studied and acted on"? You can have the best facilities in the world but the reality is EKU has not averaged 10,000 per game in the last 10 years. Most years the number was in the 6,000's. I'm curious how you guys plan on hitting the 15,000 mark consistently.

[ekufbfan]

How do you translate doubting either team is nowhere ready for FBS into "this process has NOT been thought about, studied and acted on"? You can have the best facilities in the world but the reality is EKU has not averaged 10,000 per game in the last 10 years. Most years the number was in the 6,000's. I'm curious how you guys plan on hitting the 15,000 mark consistently.

Murray HH you are late to this party, please do not think for one moment the attendance issue has not been asked, cussed, discussed, thought about, planned for and addressed. I assume we will struggle some in beginning perhaps with that target 15,000 just like a Western did and some that are in the SBC right now. Don't worry your pretty little Hammer Head about it. Actually it's more than 6,000, but still, it is nothing to brag about. (Hurry on now and Google the exact number, I know you will.) One thing I am sure if EKU fans and alumni will turn out better for competition other than the OVC........Excluding the Racers of course.......well maybe? xconfusedx

[SUPharmacist]

Murray HH you are late to this party, please do not think for one moment the attendance issue has not been asked, cussed, discussed, thought about, planned for and addressed. I assume we will struggle some in beginning perhaps with that target 15,000 just like a Western did and some that are in the SBC right now. Don't worry your pretty little Hammer Head about it. Actually it's more than 6,000, but still, it is nothing to brag about. (Hurry on now and Google the exact number, I know you will.) One thing I am sure if EKU fans and alumni will turn out better for competition other than the OVC........Excluding the Racers of course.......well maybe? xconfusedx

I am never quite sure how to look at attendance numbers as it relates to transitions. I certainly agree better competition helps the numbers, but is the SBC that (maybe to EKU, don't know the universities in that part of the country)? As an NDSU grad I know I am way more invested now that they are in FCS than I was while they were DII. However, going into it I still thought who are these teams? Is my interest more a byproduct of the recent success against FBS or the success against FCS? I enjoy the all of the FCS games, but it has been nice to talk to my friends who are grads of some nearby FBS schools and say we could compete. Either way I wish EKU well, and hope if they move up they find success by what they value and not just irrelevancy at a higher cost.

[OL FU]

My only problem with Liberty is not necessarily the Falwell stigma. The Sun Belt is made entirely up of like minded larger and growing regional public universities. Something Liberty certainly isn't. I think App and GSU are both a little gun shy and had enough of being in a small minded private school dominated conference.

I assume by small minded you are referring to our desire to have similar sized schools in the conference(can't get the smilies to work)

[Baldy]

I assume by small minded you are referring to our desire to have similar sized schools in the conference(can't get the smilies to work)
Being small-minded was a dig directed at John Iamarino and the SoCon administration. There was a bit of assholishness from the Commissioner's Office during our last year after we announced the decision to leave. I know it had to rip his guts out having to present the SoCon baseball championship to us as a parting gift on our way out the door. xthumbsupx

I have a lot of respect for Furman. That comment wasn't directed to the schools specifically...though I listened to the feed from that championship game and the announcers (Furman announcers I believe) were openly rooting against us. I could hear the pain in their voices. ;)

[SU DOG]

Being small-minded was a dig directed at John Iamarino and the SoCon administration. There was a bit of assholishness from the Commissioner's Office during our last year after we announced the decision to leave. I know it had to rip his guts out having to present the SoCon baseball championship to us as a parting gift on our way out the door. xthumbsupx

I have a lot of respect for Furman. That comment wasn't directed to the schools specifically...though I listened to the feed from that championship game and the announcers (Furman announcers I believe) were openly rooting against us. I could hear the pain in their voices. ;)

Funny that you mention that, because I noticed the very same "pain in their voices" of the Appy announcers during several conference football games the last season the Mountaineers were in the SoCon. Most notably Homecoming in Boone 10/12/13. LOL!

[Hammer Head]

Murray HH you are late to this party, please do not think for one moment the attendance issue has not been asked, cussed, discussed, thought about, planned for and addressed. I assume we will struggle some in beginning perhaps with that target 15,000 just like a Western did and some that are in the SBC right now. Don't worry your pretty little Hammer Head about it. Actually it's more than 6,000, but still, it is nothing to brag about. (Hurry on now and Google the exact number, I know you will.) One thing I am sure if EKU fans and alumni will turn out better for competition other than the OVC........Excluding the Racers of course.......well maybe? xconfusedx

I've been following this conversation from afar with great interest for some time. The attendance numbers came right off the statistics page of EKU's football site. It is one of the reasons I think EKU isn't FBS ready now and it will take some work to get up to where you've never been close to before. I'm not bustng on EKU, just stating the facts. You can keep pretending this is a Murray vs EKU thing and that's fine. The reality is Racer fans are quite content where they are. Basketball is our game.

[Hammer Head]

:D

Ironically, there were less media members covering App State home games last year than I can ever remember. Having returned to Boone for the first time in eight years and resuming regular beat coverage of the Mountaineers, it was really shocking. A bunch of the dailies in the state that used to staff ASU home games and also travel to plenty of road games instead relied on pool coverage and using stories from the Winston-Salem Journal. Even the local print newspaper, the Watauga Democrat failed to travel to most of the Sun Belt road games.

Looking back over the thread I saw this and wanted to respond. I don't know what impact fewer media people in the pressbox is having on Appalachian State but evidently the Sunbelt move is paying off. They set a new record for private donations over $3 million and recently anounced a seven year deal with Nike that is a $110,000 increase over the deal they had in FCS.

[HappyAppy]

A little late to the party, but I've noticed atleast a half dozen posts saying that the Sun Belt is scared of Liberty because of their resources. I just don't get that logic.

Yes, Liberty can easily outspend just about every team in the G5. They can (and do) outspend every team in the FCS, and it's bought them exactly one playoff appearance.

I guess the assumption is $ = Facilities/coaches = recruits = wins, and at a normal school that would be correct. My question is, do any of you remember what you were like at 18?

I can go out a recruiting visit to App State and see their very nice facilities. Tour the campus, then walk down king street. Maybe go to one of the coed dorms, go out to some parties with the host player who is showing me around.

I can go to Liberty, and see the greatest facilities known to man. Then I can go to the mens only dorm, where I have to sign in and get approval if I'm going to be out past a certain hour. Where I can't have a girl in my room, or listen to rap music, or watch an R rated movie (straight from their student handbook). Oh yeah and forget about ever having a beer.

If you want to live like that, more power to you, but I'm not scared of losing recruits (no matter how much Liberty spends).

[clenz]

I don't think the resources have anything to do with it. As you pointed out, there code of ethics, or whatever it is, will keep them from being anything better than average way more than if they only had half their resources and a standard handbook.

That code of ethics, basis of the university, foundation of every thing that university is built on, and lack of true quality education other than being a diploma mill for religious wing nuts is what's keeping them out of any conference.

Again, see BYU and the fact they are stuck in the Big ****ong West...


Also I think I just got preemptively expelled from even visiting Liberty's website for saying ****....also my browser history.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Cocky]

Not only is it about money but also what the university stands for. LU is riding the online diploma mill hard, and without it, it has no business in the FBS. Academically, it is not a fit in the FBS, plus the religious affiliation really scares the schools. They do not want to become a platform for LU to propagate it's ideas.
LU and troy are using the same business model and troy is a SB member. Religious reasons are another matter.

[Bisonwinagn]

LU and troy are using the same business model and troy is a SB member. Religious reasons are another matter.

God forbid anyone being religious in this new world order!!!

[PantherRob82]

God forbid anyone being religious in this new world order!!!

One of the most reasonable posts from a Bison fan on this board in ages. xlolx

(I kid)

[centennial]

God forbid anyone being religious in this new world order!!!
Nothing wrong in being religious. Nothing wrong in others not wanting to associate with you for it. Freedom goes both ways.

[Cocky]

God forbid anyone being religious in this new world order!!!
Dont have a problem with religion. Just trying to say troy isnt a religion based university but is and has been heavy into the low level online diploma mill game.

[OL FU]

Being small-minded was a dig directed at John Iamarino and the SoCon administration. There was a bit of assholishness from the Commissioner's Office during our last year after we announced the decision to leave. I know it had to rip his guts out having to present the SoCon baseball championship to us as a parting gift on our way out the door. xthumbsupx

I have a lot of respect for Furman. That comment wasn't directed to the schools specifically...though I listened to the feed from that championship game and the announcers (Furman announcers I believe) were openly rooting against us. I could hear the pain in their voices. ;)

I am not sure that rooting against the school leaving the conference is really that big of a crime:). If the truth be known I spent most of the 20 years you were in the conference rooting against GSUxdrunkyx However, it was certainly a love/hate relationship. I may be one of the few to admit it but I hated seeing GSU and ASU leave. Great games, great rivalries. At the same time, hold no malice for the schools doing what they think is best.

Now the to post, I was really just tweaking you. I always loved the make up of the SoCon with big publics and small privates. and interestingly enough the conference proved generally that both could compete fairly equally in just about every sport. One the other hand, and most blame the small privates, I still think the SoCon made huge mistakes not inviting, Jax St., CCU and others years ago. I understand the arguments against both, but to me the most important thing was whether the school had enough of a level of commitment to athletics to make the conference better.

[Baldy]

Funny that you mention that, because I noticed the very same "pain in their voices" of the Appy announcers during several conference football games the last season the Mountaineers were in the SoCon. Most notably Homecoming in Boone 10/12/13. LOL!
There was a lot of pain in my voice sitting in the stands in Birmingham on 10/6/13 as well. xlolx

[Baldy]

I am not sure that rooting against the school leaving the conference is really that big of a crime:). If the truth be known I spent most of the 20 years you were in the conference rooting against GSUxdrunkyx However, it was certainly a love/hate relationship. I may be one of the few to admit it but I hated seeing GSU and ASU leave. Great games, great rivalries. At the same time, hold no malice for the schools doing what they think is best.

Now the to post, I was really just tweaking you. I always loved the make up of the SoCon with big publics and small privates. and interestingly enough the conference proved generally that both could compete fairly equally in just about every sport. One the other hand, and most blame the small privates, I still think the SoCon made huge mistakes not inviting, Jax St., CCU and others years ago. I understand the arguments against both, but to me the most important thing was whether the school had enough of a level of commitment to athletics to make the conference better.
I think we are in total agreement on that part. I understand the academics side of the argument as well, BUT at the heart of it the SoCon is an athletic conference. I also understand why the conference added Mercer...keep a Georgia team in the league, still keep a regional member close to Chatty, Furman, Wofford, Citadel, Samford, etc. (I'm now a Maconite so I'll get to go to some of their games when I can't travel to see GSU...since Mercer is afraid come to Statesboro :p ) I don't understand the reasoning with adding VMI while there is a school sitting in South Carolina much closer to the footprint than the one way up in Lexington, VA who can come into the conference and compete instantly in all sports. xconfusedx

That tells me the conference isn't looking to strengthen it's athletic profile and improve it's reputation. I know VMI is a founding member, but they volunteered to leave because they weren't able to compete. What changed? Oh well, that isn't my concern anymore. xdrunkyx

[SU DOG]

Don't think this has been posted - nothing really new as CCU looks at the SBC issue:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article29775115.html

[AshevilleApp2]

Funny that you mention that, because I noticed the very same "pain in their voices" of the Appy announcers during several conference football games the last season the Mountaineers were in the SoCon. Most notably Homecoming in Boone 10/12/13. LOL!

Homecoming last year wasn't much fun either.

[OL FU]

I think we are in total agreement on that part. I understand the academics side of the argument as well, BUT at the heart of it the SoCon is an athletic conference. I also understand why the conference added Mercer...keep a Georgia team in the league, still keep a regional member close to Chatty, Furman, Wofford, Citadel, Samford, etc. (I'm now a Maconite so I'll get to go to some of their games when I can't travel to see GSU...since Mercer is afraid come to Statesboro :p ) I don't understand the reasoning with adding VMI while there is a school sitting in South Carolina much closer to the footprint than the one way up in Lexington, VA who can come into the conference and compete instantly in all sports. xconfusedx

That tells me the conference isn't looking to strengthen it's athletic profile and improve it's reputation. I know VMI is a founding member, but they volunteered to leave because they weren't able to compete. What changed? Oh well, that isn't my concern anymore. xdrunkyx

Considering where we are with ASU and GSU leaving, I think the SoCon did about as well as we could do. We all know why VMI got the invite. Mercer was a good choice. They seem committed to sports. ETSU appears to be back in the game but time will tell. The mistake was 10 years ago. CCU would have jumped in a heartbeat. JSU possibly the same. Now, understandably neither would make the move. Also, it is possible if they had been invited they would have left right along with ASU and GSU but that is a chance I would have been willing to take.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Based on what I have been reading the Sunbelt Commish has specificially said the conference is looking for a travel partner for Appalachian. He was quoted by media sources saying expansion was no longer about football. After being asked repeatedly Benson did admit EKU and Coastal had been in contact with them. The reality is that could mean they called asking what they needed to do to be considered. I doubt EKU or Coastal are remotely close to being prepared for FBS.

The only two schools that fit Benson's criteria are UNC Greensboro and Winthrop. Both are within 2 hours driving distance to Boone and situated near a major airport.

If a travel partner for App is of "paramount concern" then UNCG and Winthrop (without football) and Liberty (football) are three members they could admit by the end of the 2015 season that would solve that problem. That Benson is floating EKu and CCU as candidates, two schools that are at least a couple years away from FBS football (at absolute best, if everything goes right), should tell you everything about the honesty level of Mr. Benson on that matter.

[SENOREIDA]

If a travel partner for App is of "paramount concern" then UNCG and Winthrop (without football) and Liberty (football) are three members they could admit by the end of the 2015 season that would solve that problem. That Benson is floating EKu and CCU as candidates, two schools that are at least a couple years away from FBS football (at absolute best, if everything goes right), should tell you everything about the honesty level of Mr. Benson on that matter.
Coastal has better facilities and programs then UNCG and Winthrop. Don't see how they would make a better fit for the Sun Belt then CCU.

[AshevilleApp2]

If a travel partner for App is of "paramount concern" then UNCG and Winthrop (without football) and Liberty (football) are three members they could admit by the end of the 2015 season that would solve that problem. That Benson is floating EKu and CCU as candidates, two schools that are at least a couple years away from FBS football (at absolute best, if everything goes right), should tell you everything about the honesty level of Mr. Benson on that matter.

I don't understand the travel partner issue. I would assume that the powers that be at App considered travel prior to joining the conference.

[knucklehead]

Again, besides inferior facilities in the most important sport for conferences, both CCU and EKU have trouble filling the facilities they have. They aren't even in the top 30 here: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2014.pdf I'm not sure that whatever the SBC president's biases against Liberty are worth dropping down another rung in this area to avoid them. Especially when several SBC schools already struggle in this area.

[centennial]

Again, besides inferior facilities in the most important sport for conferences, both CCU and EKU have trouble filling the facilities they have. They aren't even in the top 30 here: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2014.pdf I'm not sure that whatever the SBC president's biases against Liberty are worth dropping down another rung in this area to avoid them. Especially when several SBC schools already struggle in this area.
You cannot make a league take you, no matter how ready you thing you are.
Other than that, I have selfish reasons for not wanting Liberty to go to the Sun Belt. Sue the NCAA so that any school can move up as an independent, this will pave the way for NDSU + some MVFC + some CAA teams to go FBS.

[knucklehead]

You cannot make a league take you, no matter how ready you thing you are.
Other than that, I have selfish reasons for not wanting Liberty to go to the Sun Belt. Sue the NCAA so that any school can move up as an independent, this will pave the way for NDSU + some MVFC + some CAA teams to go FBS.

Well, start the talks and forget the law suit. Just start a new conference with LU and all those folks. I know you can't force a conf. to take you, and at this point this LU fan really doesn't want the SBC. I just think it displays the Sun Belt's narrow minded leadership's desire to take "anyone but Liberty". This is even as many see Liberty as the "most ready". Bottom line; Religion, Private, Money, On-Line, whatever; are not a reason to keep a capable and ready athletics program out of an athletic conference.

[clenz]

Well, start the talks and forget the law suit. Just start a new conference with LU and all those folks. I know you can't force a conf. to take you, and at this point this LU fan really doesn't want the SBC. I just think it displays the Sun Belt's narrow minded leadership's desire to take "anyone but Liberty". This is even as many see Liberty as the "most ready". Bottom line; Religion, Private, Money, On-Line, whatever; are not a reason to keep a capable and ready athletics program out of an athletic conference.
You can't just start a conference.

A reason to keep a team out of the conference is they don't fit the mold of the conference. There's a reason that the SoCon and CAA haven't reach out as a chance to strengthen them either.

Liberty doesn't fit anyones framework. It's their bed, they need to lay in it

[centennial]

Well, start the talks and forget the law suit. Just start a new conference with LU and all those folks. I know you can't force a conf. to take you, and at this point this LU fan really doesn't want the SBC. I just think it displays the Sun Belt's narrow minded leadership's desire to take "anyone but Liberty". This is even as many see Liberty as the "most ready". Bottom line; Religion, Private, Money, On-Line, whatever; are not a reason to keep a capable and ready athletics program out of an athletic conference.
We can let the dominoes fall in the college football world. Most administrations are waiting for that. I expect JMU, Missouri State, Illinois State, UNI, SDSU, NDSU, Montana, Delaware + a few more that might want to go FBS especially if FCS-FBS games stop.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You can't just start a conference.

A reason to keep a team out of the conference is they don't fit the mold of the conference. There's a reason that the SoCon and CAA haven't reach out as a chance to strengthen them either.

Liberty doesn't fit anyones framework. It's their bed, they need to lay in it

My proposal was to take all the FBS Independents (ND, Army, Navy, BYU), two G5 schools (SMU, Air Force), one Big XII school (TCU) and Liberty and make a football-only conference for the FBS.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/06/fbs-problems-with-mixing-religion-and.html

SMU and TCU are the most negotiable but they seemed to be the ones with the best shot as a university with a national reach.

All these eight schools have the same mission for their football teams, and competing in a football-only construct would be the best way to have their needs met and their concerns voiced as a unit.

[centennial]

My proposal was to take all the FBS Independents (ND, Army, Navy, BYU), two G5 schools (SMU, Air Force), one Big XII school (TCU) and Liberty and make a football-only conference for the FBS.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/06/fbs-problems-with-mixing-religion-and.html

SMU and TCU are the most negotiable but they seemed to be the ones with the best shot as a university with a national reach.

All these eight schools have the same mission for their football teams, and competing in a football-only construct would be the best way to have their needs met and their concerns voiced as a unit.
You think ND will slum with any G5 team? This conference doesn't make any geographical sense. Best way for Liberty frankly is to offer the MAC,CUSA 5-10 million for a 2 year deal and then go independent or sue the NCAA.

[knucklehead]

You can't just start a conference.

A reason to keep a team out of the conference is they don't fit the mold of the conference. There's a reason that the SoCon and CAA haven't reach out as a chance to strengthen them either.

Liberty doesn't fit anyones framework. It's their bed, they need to lay in it


Again, this is an athletics discussion. It that realm, Liberty fits every conference. Liberty plays all kinds of schools in all kinds of sports all the time. The fit is there where it counts.

[clenz]

Again, this is an athletics discussion. It that realm, Liberty fits every conference. Liberty plays all kinds of schools in all kinds of sports all the time. The fit is there where it counts.
Athletics are a small part of full conference membership.

Again, it's why BYU is in the Big West and not PAC12, Big 12 or even MAC any more but Utah is P12, TCU is B12 and Utah State is MWC.

Academics is a large part of why Boise isn't Big 12 and Cinci isn't B12/B10.

You can't build a university on extremist Christian ideals, whore yourself out to 100k online students, take money from fringe donors and do everything you can to set yourself apart on that end and then complain when others who don't share that value don't want to deal with any of those individually, let alone ALL of them from 1 school

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[knucklehead]

Athletics are a small part of full conference membership.

Again, it's why BYU is in the Big West and not PAC12, Big 12 or even MAC any more but Utah is P12, TCU is B12 and Utah State is MWC.

Academics is a large part of why Boise isn't Big 12 and Cinci isn't B12/B10.

You can't build a university on extremist Christian ideals, whore yourself out to 100k online students, take money from fringe donors and do everything you can to set yourself apart on that end and then complain when others who don't share that value don't want to deal with any of those individually, let alone ALL of them from 1 school

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I prefer the term, traditional Christian ideals. As far as I know, Liberty is NOT holding a gun to any online enrollee's heads. Fringe donors?

Again, Liberty is only a little more than 40 years old. SunBelt or not, big things are still to come for LU. It just takes time and patience.

[AshevilleApp2]

Which traditional Christian ideals?

[CasualFan]

... The mistake was 10 years ago. CCU would have jumped in a heartbeat. JSU possibly the same. Now, understandably neither would make the move. ...
Coastal Carolina wanted to go when SoCon invited Mercer and VMI. Based on an email CCU administration sent to faculty and staff, the reason we were declined was academics. Whether that was the real reason is debatable, but it was the reason they told us. It's an open secret that CCU wants to move to a more prestigious conference. Prior to the SBC commissioner's interview, most would say our wish list was the SoCon or CAA. If an offer from either of those two appeared, Coastal would take it.

I really hope they don't jump to the Sun Belt. Blech.

[OL FU]

Coastal Carolina wanted to go when SoCon invited Mercer and VMI. Based on an email CCU administration sent to faculty and staff, the reason we were declined was academics. Whether that was the real reason is debatable, but it was the reason they told us. It's an open secret that CCU wants to move to a more prestigious conference. Prior to the SBC commissioner's interview, most would say our wish list was the SoCon or CAA. If an offer from either of those two appeared, Coastal would take it.

I really hope they don't jump to the Sun Belt. Blech.

I was not aware if that. I wish we would have offered

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You think ND will slum with any G5 team? This conference doesn't make any geographical sense. Best way for Liberty frankly is to offer the MAC,CUSA 5-10 million for a 2 year deal and then go independent or sue the NCAA.

The POINT is that it's a conference with national schools. ND should not be in a conference that is small and regional. It should be in a conference that is national and goes coast-to-coast.

This, IMO, is what the Big East was trying to do in order to stay in the power conferences. Unfortunately it didn't work and the basketball schools broke free. Now the AAC is in G5 lose-money-in-droves land with no bowl money to speak of and a cross-country conference - the worst of all possible worlds.

A football-only construct, where the national football programs compete nationally but schools like, say, Liberty staying in the Big South for all other sports, makes sense.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Nothing wrong in being religious. Nothing wrong in others not wanting to associate with you for it. Freedom goes both ways.

I don't care what rob says. You are flat out nailing it with that one.

[FargoBison]

The POINT is that it's a conference with national schools. ND should not be in a conference that is small and regional. It should be in a conference that is national and goes coast-to-coast.

This, IMO, is what the Big East was trying to do in order to stay in the power conferences. Unfortunately it didn't work and the basketball schools broke free. Now the AAC is in G5 lose-money-in-droves land with no bowl money to speak of and a cross-country conference - the worst of all possible worlds.

A football-only construct, where the national football programs compete nationally but schools like, say, Liberty staying in the Big South for all other sports, makes sense.

ND playing in a conference with Liberty makes about much sense as Liberty getting an invite to join the Ivy League. It is a completely asinine idea, Notre Dame is more likely to come play a game in Fargo than what you are proposing. No conference is good enough for ND football, not even the B1G which oozes prestige and tradition. ND wants to do their own thing and play their rivals/traditional opponents and other high profile opponents.

[SUPharmacist]

No conference is good enough for ND football, not even the B1G which oozes prestige and tradition. ND wants to do their own thing and play their rivals/traditional opponents and other high profile opponents.

While the conference with Liberty is preposterous, do you think there comes a point where the P5 tell ND to fully join them or attempt to cut them out?

[PantherRob82]

I don't care what rob says. You are flat out nailing it with that one.

Hey, don't push your love of Jesus on me, ursus. xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

ND playing in a conference with Liberty makes about much sense as Liberty getting an invite to join the Ivy League. It is a completely asinine idea, Notre Dame is more likely to come play a game in Fargo than what you are proposing. No conference is good enough for ND football, not even the B1G which oozes prestige and tradition. ND wants to do their own thing and play their rivals/traditional opponents and other high profile opponents.

ND wants to play their rivals/traditional opponents, which are nationwide. They need a conference that reflects their needs. The B1G does not reflect ND's needs in that area.

[IBleedYellow]

More insight. Looks like we might be seeing Coastal disappear shortly.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article29775115.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

“Whenever I’m asked about only the football piece, I said I think this is a business decision so it’s a matter of what’s going on in the market,” Moglia said on that point. “So if we’ve got standing room only and a waiting line for tickets, it clearly tells us we’re probably supposed to start expansion. Now, while we’ve done a good job of getting reasonable crowds, we don’t have standing room only and we don’t have waiting lines for tickets. So from a business perspective, I think you’d want to see that type of demand, but that’s only football. And football, while it certainly matters, is only a piece of the overall landscape that Dr. DeCenzo’s got to look at.”

Smart man. He should be running a Fortune 500 company or something.

[FargoBison]

ND wants to play their rivals/traditional opponents, which are nationwide. They need a conference that reflects their needs. The B1G does not reflect ND's needs in that area.

If they have to join a conference for some reason, they will join a legitimate one. B1G, ACC, Big 12, SEC or PAC 12...whoever will cut them the best deal, all have national brands and TV contracts. They aren't going to create some bizarro league just to have a national conference, it wouldn't be worth their time and would probably hurt them more than anything. The only way they would want a national conference is if they could team with other powerhouse programs, Liberty isn't in that category.

[knucklehead]

What would the SBC get from taking CCU for Olympic sports only for now? I still don't see how in a beach town with so much to do they will average 15+ even if they have a big enough stadium.

[clenz]

The butt hurt from liberty is strong in this thread

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[knucklehead]

I think I may be the only LU fan who is posting. Not hurt. I just think it's interesting that every one is OK with the SBC taking a school that doesn't even meet the NCAA requirements.

[SUPharmacist]

The butt hurt from liberty is strong in this thread

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Well they are not wrong about the challenges Coastal might have with the 15,000 avg (though as you and others have stated it can be fudged numerous ways). But, that does nothing to make Liberty a more viable candidate. It does look like Coastal is looking at this the right way, and at least Moglia is saying the right things.

[FargoBison]

It doesn't take much to make an outdoor stadium meet those requirements. Looking at their website they have plans to make it as large as 20k. As for actually putting that many in the stands...well there are ways around that as has been mentioned.

What CCU has is good Olympic sports and a growing football program, great location as well. Lots of football talent nearby.

[ekufbfan]

Looks like CCU is in by popular opinion.xcoffeex Guess the Sun Belt officials wasted their time at EKU last week.

[CasualFan]

Looks like CCU is in by popular opinion.xcoffeex Guess the Sun Belt officials wasted their time at EKU last week.
:) Point taken. CCU is just interesting, because it is unexpected.

I keep coming round to that 15k number and thinking it won't happen for us. And if we were to join for everything but football? I guess I don't get why that would be a good idea.

[Bisonator]

:) Point taken. CCU is just interesting, because it is unexpected.

I keep coming round to that 15k number and thinking it won't happen for us. And if we were to join for everything but football? I guess I don't get why that would be a good idea.

Makes no sense. Moglia seems to have the right attitude and decision making skills for this so I think you guys are in good hands.

[knucklehead]

I don't see where it makes any sense for the SBC either. I do actually thing Moglia is a great coach and will be an asset in CCU's handling of this situation.

[walliver]

I don't see any way the SBC would be interesting to CCU other than football.

The SBC, like the BS, is now a one-bid basketball conference. Most SBC schools are unknown to generic fans in Horry County, so there would be no attendance boast.

CCU currently has not difficulty making the baseball playoffs, so the SB has nothing to offer there.

Essentially, CCU would have much higher travel expenses in order to play a lot of teams in which their fans have little interest.

[ccd494]

The article said that GA Southern got a $500,000 payout from the SBC last year. The Big South payout was like $90k with $50k dues. That's not insubstantial.

[SENOREIDA]

CCU President David DeCenzo said he would accept a Sun Belt invite if offered

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article30466269.html

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

CCU President David DeCenzo said he would accept a Sun Belt invite if offered

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article30466269.html

For the sake of the SBC, and the G5 in general, it better not happen.....

[RootinFerDukes]

Ccu fans can thank JMU for having a complete, over analyzing moron for a president.

[BisonFan02]

For the sake of the SBC, and the G5 in general, it better not happen.....

Haha, why not? Does it get lower than Georgia State? The "sunbelt stinkers" as called by the game day crew?

[jmrepak]

If you don't read the article it is also important to note that President DeCenzo also stated that we would start immediate expansion of the stadium to bring it to 21-22 thousand seats using reserve funds and private donations. He also specifically stated that Moglia would not contribute to those funds while employed at Coastal for all the haters drooling to go there. Last, but not least, the Chairman of the Board along with the President guaranteed no increase in tuition or athletic fees to pay for the upgrades which is a huge plus. I've known the Administration fairly well for over 10 years and have no reason to doubt any of what they've said. In fact, I can't think of a single public statement that was ever contradicted by action by DeCenzo. He's just a flat out straight shooter, a damn good Pres. and a great man.

Personally, I'm very excited at the prospect of the Sun Belt. It means another 10 years of trying to make an impact at a new level for football, but I think it opens doors to help our Olympic and other sports (golf, soccer, baseball, basketball, etc.) take it to the next level as well. Who knows what the future will hold as far as realignment goes. In my opinion, you have to act with the best information you have available and shoot for the best possible outcome, and acceptance of a Sun Belt offer will be just that.

[jmrepak]

Ccu fans can thank JMU for having a complete, over analyzing moron for a president.

Damn Chanticleers. Always keeping the Dukes down


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQY3xH6FNNY...

Sorry, I love pulling this one out when I get the chance.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Haha, why not? Does it get lower than Georgia State? The "sunbelt stinkers" as called by the game day crew?

For the life of me I don't understand the SBC's fixation with the need to expand. What is to be gained by adding a school that has zero business playing FBS right now? I'm pro-CCU and respect the heck out of what they've done at the FCS level. But being a piece of low hanging fruit at the FBS level gets you nothing imo. The SBC is a complete and utter dumpster fire with zero desire to increase the actual product on the field or on the bball court. They need to do everything possible to increase the strength of the conference to help its national perception. Adding CCU and EKU only further hinders it. The SBC has far more in common with the better FCS conferences than it does the better G5 leagues.

[The Cats]

Ccu fans can thank JMU for having a complete, over analyzing moron for a president.

There's another school in play besides EKU and CCU....


DeCenzo said Benson and his Sun Belt team had already visited Eastern Kentucky before they spent Tuesday and Wednesday at Coastal Carolina, and it was his understanding the conference plans to visit one more unidentified school next week................

While acknowledging that the Sun Belt is talking to three schools about potential expansion, DeCenzo said the conference did not indicate to him how many members it would be looking to add.

any guesses who the 3d school is? JMU or Liberty ???????

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

There's another school in play besides EKU and CCU....



any guesses who the 3d school is? JMU or Liberty ???????

Perhaps New Mexico State? That would actually make sense....to a point....

[jmrepak]

Perhaps New Mexico State? That would actually make sense....to a point....
I believe it is NMSU potentially adding all sports to the conference, but that doesn't really solve the travel partner problem.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I believe it is NMSU potentially adding football to the conference, but that doesn't really solve the travel partner problem.

NMSU should be added to help basketball. Perhaps the SBC could be more than a one bid league with the addition of the Aggies....

[centennial]

For the life of me I don't understand the SBC's fixation with the need to expand. What is to be gained by adding a school that has zero business playing FBS right now? I'm pro-CCU and respect the heck out of what they've done at the FCS level. But being a piece of low hanging fruit at the FBS level gets you nothing imo. The SBC is a complete and utter dumpster fire with zero desire to increase the actual product on the field or on the bball court. They need to do everything possible to increase the strength of the conference to help its national perception. Adding CCU and EKU only further hinders it. The SBC has far more in common with the better FCS conferences than it does the better G5 leagues.
Academically, Coastal would not be the worst SunBelt school. They would IMO increase the level of football and some other sports. However, look at the enrollment at 10k and the 25million endowment. Coastal is exactly where it belongs, in the FCS. Many schools have wasted money and good situations trying to move up. EKU has 15k endowment, similar academics and 50 million endowment. Both these schools are FCS schools.

[RootinFerDukes]

Damn Chanticleers. Always keeping the Dukes down


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQY3xH6FNNY...

Sorry, I love pulling this one out when I get the chance.

You should send a thank you email to Jonathan Alger, JMU president. He's holding out for a perfect scenario that will never exist and watched the only remaining door into fbs slip through his fingers.
We also blew you all out in that game, lest you forget. I'll take that over a shove from behind by a green chicken.

[RootinFerDukes]

For the life of me I don't understand the SBC's fixation with the need to expand. What is to be gained by adding a school that has zero business playing FBS right now? I'm pro-CCU and respect the heck out of what they've done at the FCS level. But being a piece of low hanging fruit at the FBS level gets you nothing imo. The SBC is a complete and utter dumpster fire with zero desire to increase the actual product on the field or on the bball court. They need to do everything possible to increase the strength of the conference to help its national perception. Adding CCU and EKU only further hinders it. The SBC has far more in common with the better FCS conferences than it does the better G5 leagues.

This is just my opinion, but I think they're panicking, knowing that the big 12 may take more teams. The trickle down will work its way down to the sbc and they could have one or two teams taken. Then they only have 9 members remaining.
They're being rejected, publicly too, by schools like Missouri state and JMU. Schools are choosing to stay Fcs then join them. Their perception is at an all time low. They're taking any willing, warm body that isn't named Liberty. They're desperate.

[RootinFerDukes]

There's another school in play besides EKU and CCU....



any guesses who the 3d school is? JMU or Liberty ???????

If JMU were going to the sbc, we would already be there. Our president doesn't like the schools in it and has chosen to stay in the CAA instead.
He doesn't want the increased travel and low end academic schools.

[The Cats]

Academically, Coastal would not be the worst SunBelt school. They would IMO increase the level of football and some other sports. However, look at the enrollment at 10k and the 25 million endowment. Coastal is exactly where it belongs, in the FCS. Many schools have wasted money and good situations trying to move up. EKU has 15k endowment, similar academics and 50 million endowment. Both these schools are FCS schools.

They seem to be all over the place..... I think CCU would fit right in..... at least as much as ULM does

App State - 15k students - endowment $91m
Ark. State - 14k students - endowment $52m
UALR - 12k students - endowment $136m
Ga Southern - 20k students - endowment $46m
Ga State - 32lk students - endowment $133m
UL Lafayette - 17k students - endowment $112m
ULM - 8K students - endowment $23m
USA - 16k students - endowment $479m
Tx State - 31k students - endowment $139m
UTA - 41k students - endowment $127m
Troy - 19k students - endowment $48m

bonus....
EKU - 16k students - endowment $54m

[jmrepak]

You should send a thank you email to Jonathan Alger, JMU president. He's holding out for a perfect scenario that will never exist and watched the only remaining door into fbs slip through his fingers.
We also blew you all out in that game, lest you forget. I'll take that over a shove from behind by a green chicken.
Those were a few dark years in Coastal football that ultimately led to a coaching change. However, I just like pulling the clip out in good fun. I have a lot of respect for JMU and they have a beautiful stadium. I actually went to Richmond for my MBA with a few JMU alums and am old friends with the new Head of Econ. Development for H-burg. That's a nice place and I can't understand what the hell is going on with an FBS invite for you. Not that we have one yet ourselves.

[RootinFerDukes]

What's going on is the president is scared of "failing". It's endless paralysis by analysis. No scenario is perfect.
People close to the situation say they're firmly against the sbc and will not consider that option, but if the Mac or cusa come calling, which they never will, we'll be gone tomorrow.
Basically, we're forever an Fcs team. Part of why I'm here.
I want other true cfb fans to talk to and not the endless negativity about our situation found on our message boards.

[jmrepak]

They seem to be all over the place..... I think CCU would fit right in..... at least as much as ULM does

App State - 15k students - endowment $91m
Ark. State - 14k students - endowment $52m
UALR - 12k students - endowment $136m
Ga Southern - 20k students - endowment $46m
Ga State - 32lk students - endowment $133m
UL Lafayette - 17k students - endowment $112m
ULM - 8K students - endowment $23m
USA - 16k students - endowment $479m
Tx State - 31k students - endowment $139m
UTA - 41k students - endowment $127m
Troy - 19k students - endowment $48m

bonus....
EKU - 16k students - endowment $54m
Just an FYI that the current master plan has us hitting 12-13k students and we have almost completed the facilities infrastructure required to get there. I think growth beyond that is very possible as well, but we need to get there first before the locals get too skittish with further growth plans. There is no reason that Coastal couldn't get between 15-20k students. Especially, if we could find the funding for a College of Engineering that is desperately needed in the Lowcountry (outside of the Citadel). We are trying to grow the enrollment organically though, and not by lowering admission standards to the point where we hit the goal fast but have a lot of freshman washout. The nice thing is that, I believe, the perception of Coastal as a transfer school is rapidly going away, and that was prevalent less than 10 years ago.

Additionally, the President announced his strategic goal of advancing the endowment to $100 million about a year ago it seems and in that time he has already grown it by over 10% since that time.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Hey, don't push your love of Jesus on me, ursus. xlolx

You should refer to me as "Jursus" from now on.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What's going on is the president is scared of "failing". It's endless paralysis by analysis. No scenario is perfect.
People close to the situation say they're firmly against the sbc and will not consider that option, but if the Mac or cusa come calling, which they never will, we'll be gone tomorrow.
Basically, we're forever an Fcs team. Part of why I'm here.
I want other true cfb fans to talk to and not the endless negativity about our situation found on our message boards.

Perhaps he's firmly against the SBC because he's seen who's in it and who's running it.

[citdog]

The College of Faith would fit right in with that bunch.

[centennial]

They seem to be all over the place..... I think CCU would fit right in..... at least as much as ULM does

App State - 15k students - endowment $91m
Ark. State - 14k students - endowment $52m
UALR - 12k students - endowment $136m
Ga Southern - 20k students - endowment $46m
Ga State - 32lk students - endowment $133m
UL Lafayette - 17k students - endowment $112m
ULM - 8K students - endowment $23m
USA - 16k students - endowment $479m
Tx State - 31k students - endowment $139m
UTA - 41k students - endowment $127m
Troy - 19k students - endowment $48m

bonus....
EKU - 16k students - endowment $54m
What if I told you that half the schools on that list have no business in the FBS. Here is MVFC. CAA, Big Sky would probably be better as well.

MVFC-
Ill State - 20k students $88m
Indiana State - 13k students- $47m
Missouri State- 22k students $66m
NDSU- 15k - $126m
UNI- 12k $65m
USD- 12k - $182m
SDSU- 12k- $97m
SIU- 18k -$100m
WIU- 11k - $43m
YSU- 14k -$226m