How To Get Lehigh Fans to Games, And Keep Them There?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/07/how-to-get-lehigh-fans-to-games-and.html

Certainly germane to Lehigh fans and Patriot League fans, but maybe there's some application as well to raising attendance at other FCS schools as well. A longform piece that attempts to cover it all.

[bluehenbillk]

You got most of it - noon or 12:30 games draw the least. Play a night game, play somebody & play up the tailgating.

[CHIP72]

I personally like the 12:30 PM games at Lehigh because it allows me to attend another event in the evening (4 of the last 5 years that other event was a Lafayette game at Fisher Stadium, while the other year it was a Somerset Patriots minor league baseball game in central New Jersey), but I'm probably in the minority. Also, as a non-alumnus of Lehigh, I like the fact I have plenty of room to park at Goodman Stadium and I really like the bucolic setting.

I really think Lehigh would benefit from installing a video board and upgrading the audio system.

Looking at the broader picture, I think one of the things that hurts college football attendance is the uncomfortable seating at most college stadiums. Most stadiums, including a number of major college stadiums (like Penn State's Beaver Stadium) have entirely or mostly bleachers without backs seating. In today's day and age, that kind of seating often doesn't cut it.

Though I like the fact I can watch many of the games for the college football teams I follow in one form or another, even though I'm located at least 125 miles from any of those teams, I think college football has oversaturated itself TV-wise. The NFL has always been smart - they limit the number of games available (mind you, that's in part because there are only 32 teams) and make certain games, particularly the late Sunday afternoon doubleheader game, the NBC Sunday night game, and to a lesser degree the ESPN Monday night games, events. Unless you live in a local market for your favorite team, not every game is televised, and that encourages people to attend some of the games that aren't televised. With so many games available on national and local TV and also via internet streaming, most college football games are, in contrast to the NFL, non-events. The sheer number of games also plays into our culture's increasingly limited attention spans - if one game isn't entertaining, you find another game that is. And that also becomes an issue with live games - people have become so accustomed to seeing the amazing by flipping the TV channel that unless a game is very entertaining, an increasing number of people don't have the attention span to watch a live game, or enjoy the band, or enjoy the relatively quaint pageantry associated with many college football games.

[RichH2]

Redo current tailgate rules; video scoreboard ;more flexible transportation and some early seasom late afternoon games.
Back in the dawn of time,frosh were required to attend football home games. :)

[DFW HOYA]

Opponents are a big reason for attendance. Lafayette didn't draw 3,207 versus Robert Morris because it was a 6:00 pm start, it drew 3,207 because it was Robert Morris.

Advance tickets are a given for the Lafayette game, a given. Penn will draw, too. But no one is buying advanced tickets for Georgetown and Holy Cross. Conversely, road crowds are vital to attendance numbers. Unless the Engineers can draw Old Dominion-styled local crowds, it will rely on road seating (as evidenced by the photo on the article) to fill the seats after the core 7,000 Lehigh fans buy tickets. But other than Lafayette, what are the traveling crowds of the other schools?

[CHIP72]

Opponents are a big reason for attendance. Lafayette didn't draw 3,207 versus Robert Morris because it was a 6:00 pm start, it drew 3,207 because it was Robert Morris.

IIRC, that game was also played on a day as hot as Hades and some severe thunderstorms came through during the day; I think Robert Morris/Lafayette may have been delayed a bit by the weather. (I attended a concert in DC that night that was over around 9:15 PM, and I remember being surprised that the game was still going on. I watched part of it on the bus going home.)

The Fordham/Villanova game at Villanova that was suspended by lightning was played the same day as Robert Morris/Lafayette.

[heath]

Redo current tailgate rules; video scoreboard ;more flexible transportation and some early seasom late afternoon games.
Back in the dawn of time,frosh were required to attend football home games. :)
What tailgating rules are you talking about? I can walk with a beer right up to the main gate trashcans and throw it away. Lehigh has one of the most relaxed systems in progress. If you are worried about the students...... 70% are under age and can ride the many flexible buses over the mountain. Most students that attend a game drink early at the frats ,ride free bus over to the game,leave at halftime when the buzz wears off,and ride another flexible free bus to campus Video board is a must in the future and ol' tradition has Lehigh locked at 12:30. One of the best game day atmospheres around,but you want a later start? LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sandlapper Spike]

The most recent comment on your post is rather brutal...

IMO the only way you're getting people to attend these games is if Lehigh were to join the P5. i cant even get recent alumni to watch lehigh football and basketball games when they're nationally televised on cbs sports. people just dont really care about anything outside of the P5.

[Go...gate]

Beware of night games. Princeton is doing them and the actual attendance is pretty limited. The "Old Guard" wants their early afternoon tailgates in the sunshine and the ability to drive home in daylight.

Ironically, Colgate seems to have had some success with night games.

[Go...gate]

P.S. I think Goodman is a great place to watch a football game and always a great road trip. The ball park is nice and the game-day experience is family-friendly.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

They need to get the fraternities more ingrained like it used to be. I remember in the 90's the north field used to rock. Not all of those kids came in but a lot did. It use to bring something different to the game with a few thousand kids raging next to the stadium. Nothing else in the league was like it iirc.

I really think lights have to be considered. I said in another post that I don't buy the "lighting issue" regarding the walkways and parking lots. That is such an easy fix it's ridiculous. There might be some zoning hurdles or something else that's negating it. Either way, it's 2015, time to get with the times. Heck, the first night game at Wrigley was 27 years ago.

Also, freshen up the stadium. Give a reason for the casual, local football fans to come out and see a game there again. A new video board, sound system, updated/modernized locker room facility, updated concession areas plus lights. At some point the stadium has to get an overhaul. Even Stabler got a minor facelift after 30 years. That window is approaching for Goodman.

It pains me to say it but the right type of FBS game would help too. Getting a few student busses along with alums/fans to the Carrier Dome, to the Lincoln or down to Charlottesville for a game against UVA would help change the perception of Lehigh football and where they stand in the world. A quality Lehigh team can put forth a competitive effort vs the right type of FBS opponent. That would create a bit of buzz.

I remember watching Lehigh play at West Point when a large number of Lehigh fans turned out. Likewise with 1A Buffalo and ranked Penn at Franklin Field (Philly at night was cool) in 2002. Recently, they had an exceptional turnout for the tailgate and game at Towson in 2011. Lehigh people will some out if the event is fun and meaningful.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Beware of night games. Princeton is doing them and the actual attendance is pretty limited. The "Old Guard" wants their early afternoon tailgates in the sunshine and the ability to drive home in daylight.

Ironically, Colgate seems to have had some success with night games.

I think Lehigh is adjacent to a large enough population base to make it work. Friday night football is huge in the Lehigh Valley so a night out at a game is part of the culture. Penn State and Notre Dame (both of whom are wildly popular in the Valley) play a lot of afternoon games. Getting away from those two teams would help. Lehigh's attendance was really bolstered by the locals coming out and watching quality football. They need to get that demographic to come back. They started to disappear when Lehigh slipped in the mid 2000's. An extra 1,000 to 1,500 fans would make a considerable difference atmosphere wise.

A couple local high school stars would be nice too.....

[RichH2]

While the steel mills.were unsightly the workers came out for games. LV demographics vastly different now. Agree with most about physical improvements. Home game need more of an event atmosphere that people cant get on TV. The traditional events of Family Day,Homecoming and Houseparty seekend aren't the same draws. Used to be every frat had an open party on that wedkend. Now LU has forced parties off campus. Less frat parties now in a year than usdd to happen on Houseparty weekend.

[Bill]

As a former student, coach, and alumni visitor, here’s my two cents...

Chuck has most of this right on…

When Goodman opened, it was a novelty. It drew well. I do agree that the location is the key to the lower crowd #....but when Goodman opened , things like DUI were almost unheard of. Student tailgating was easy…and left alone. No one ever got “in trouble” or “written up” for behavior at tailgates. It was a three ring circus over there, so students wanted to go. A tailgate registering policies got stricter, and behavior policies too, there became less of an incentive to get to a game.

Winning ALWAYS helps. The better the results, the better the crowd. In my opinion, big-time football is only competition for alumni and casual fans, NOT the students. No student I ever knew stayed away from a LU game because Penn State or ND was on.
The stadium is in dire need of an upgrade - as mentioned, but once again, I don’t think the students care that much. Attending the games was a social event…and if 500-1000 underage kids could easily get drunk by going to the football games today (as they could in the 1990’s), the crowds would increase – that’s not considering socially responsible in 2015, though. One last thing…demographics. As the student profile changes at Lehigh – and it has – maybe the culture of partying is somewhat of an antiquated concept!

[RichH2]

No Bill. Students have at least as many,probably more,than years past. They are not on campus. East 5th,Morton etc. In town. LU not nearly the nany state that Lafayette has become but parties on campus are merely memories for alumni. The latest CORE recommendations recognize the disconnect . Suggest a minmal easing of alcohol rules and forcing juniors back on campus. The start of a needed dialogue,even if suggestions are ill thought out for the most part. First you force so many students off campus by essentially banning open parties serving alcohol on campus. Thereby ending most on campus social life. As a result.the area artound campus has become a rental bonanza for the town. Once town has adapted to this,yuo now want to create a ghost town around the campus by forcing juniors back to a campus that already doesn't have enuf beds for students that want them. Certainly a part of the lack of attendance. Students very limited in tailgating events but can have mocos in town and then watch the game on TV.

[Bill]

Rich
Good points. I haven't read the CORE rec's...but I have definitely heard the student talk of being forced off campus!

[ngineer]

There is a combination of many factors, but college football attendance has been falling nationwide. Big article in USA Today last year about the "phenomenon". Culture has changed. "The Jocks" are no longer the BMOC. PL schools have become more 'intellectual' and the idea of having a social gathering of fellow students to cheer on their fellow students is no longer en vogue. The CORE study emphasizes the new culture on campus, somewhat created by failed social policies that has segregated the campus with upper classmen off campus and athletes no longer 'cross-pollinating' with the student body. While Goodman can use some upgrades, it is still one of the best venues in FCS football in which to spend a fall afternoon. The wrong placed policy of requiring the students to break down their tailgates before going into the stadium is nuts. They break 'em down, take 'em over the Mountain and stay there where they can watch the game on TV and drink. I think requiring the students to attend 80% of the home games in order to get a ticket to the Lafayette game should be explored. Competition with not only high school sports but the changed culture where so many parents (now alumni) have their kids scheduled in tons of weekend activities that make going to a football game nigh impossible. Years ago going the a high school or college football game was THE event of the week. High school sports attendance is suffering as well. There is no 'silver bullet' to this issue.

[RichH2]

Agree n, there us no one single change that can reverse a national trend. A combination of many of the suggestions posted here can ,if,applied, make Goodman more of a destination for students,alumni and visitors.

[LUHawker]

It's not just student attendance that has dropped off. I don't remember exactly when LU switched from 1:00pm starts to 12:00 or 12:30pm start times, but anecdotely, there seemed to be a correlation. I like tailgating a to and I find that extra 1/2 hr earlier start to really interfere with the whole atmosphere.
Bring back the 1pm games, ease-up on the student-tailgating restrictions and the crowds will improve. There is something magical about a fall game as the sun is setting and the lighting dims that transforms the atmosphere at Goodman into a more tense environment and gets the juices flowing.

[Lehigh'98]

I'm just really disappointed in this whole 'moco' thing. We sound like giant douchebags coining that term.

[RichH2]

I'm just really disappointed in this whole 'moco' thing. We sound like giant douchebags coining that term.
We didn't Mocos. Morning cocktails. Not much diffrrent than what we did ,cept its on E.5th now. No more Hill crawls. I understand that alcohol policies need to exist in some form. We didn't have epidemic binge drinking when I was at LU. To my mind , it is much safer to let students drink on campus where it is relatively safer,rather than washing your hands and moving it to various locations in town. But back to football :)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm just really disappointed in this whole 'moco' thing. We sound like giant douchebags coining that term.

It was coined by the students themselves, I simply passed on what they themselves coined it.

Certainly it's understandable that the athletic department wouldn't want to condone morning drinking or dangerous behavior (and, for that matter, neither do I), but at some level there needs to be a balance. Ironically a night game, or night games, would probably curb morning drinking and have students start drinking at, say, 12PM-1PM for a 4PM kickoff, which might be safer.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Opponents are a big reason for attendance. Lafayette didn't draw 3,207 versus Robert Morris because it was a 6:00 pm start, it drew 3,207 because it was Robert Morris.

Advance tickets are a given for the Lafayette game, a given. Penn will draw, too. But no one is buying advanced tickets for Georgetown and Holy Cross. Conversely, road crowds are vital to attendance numbers. Unless the Engineers can draw Old Dominion-styled local crowds, it will rely on road seating (as evidenced by the photo on the article) to fill the seats after the core 7,000 Lehigh fans buy tickets. But other than Lafayette, what are the traveling crowds of the other schools?

Wanted to emphasize this, because I really agree with it, i.e. road crowds are vital to attendance numbers. There was a time when it was more customary to have trips that included the entire contingent of spirit teams, like bands, cheerleaders, etc. But all of these things have been cut back significantly. People want to come to a football game and see dueling bands that are somewhat invested in the outcome of the game, not simply the band of the home team showing off what they've been practicing to family and some friends.

Lehigh Lafayette would be special anyway, but part of what makes it special are these specific rules for that game that allows more than a typical travel team for the "away" side, full band/cheerleader contingent, etc. That's one of the reasons a home-and-home with Delaware would be so special for Lehigh: aside from the history between the two schools, both schools have bands and there could be considerable investment by the students on both sides. The less investment the away team has in the game, the less the spectacle.

[bluehenbillk]

Wanted to emphasize this, because I really agree with it, i.e. road crowds are vital to attendance numbers. There was a time when it was more customary to have trips that included the entire contingent of spirit teams, like bands, cheerleaders, etc. But all of these things have been cut back significantly. People want to come to a football game and see dueling bands that are somewhat invested in the outcome of the game, not simply the band of the home team showing off what they've been practicing to family and some friends.

Lehigh Lafayette would be special anyway, but part of what makes it special are these specific rules for that game that allows more than a typical travel team for the "away" side, full band/cheerleader contingent, etc. That's one of the reasons a home-and-home with Delaware would be so special for Lehigh: aside from the history between the two schools, both schools have bands and there could be considerable investment by the students on both sides. The less investment the away team has in the game, the less the spectacle.

It's a rare occasion anymore that Delaware's band travels. I think they did the 1st Nova game at PPL but outside of that they strictly do home games. I get the interest in the old-timers would have in the game, but the students? I don't really see it that way. We played Bucknell & Colgate the past two years and zero buzz. Lafayette this fall will be the same.

I guess it has to stick in your craw that UD is travelling to Easton for a game (not this season)?

[RichH2]

It would be nice to restart our series. Guessing it will take a while to rebuild the intensity it used to have in the 50s and 60s. Right now dont really care if UD plays at Pards or at all. Now,if we were talking about the Penn series. My hate for them is undiminished by the passage of time :)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's a rare occasion anymore that Delaware's band travels. I think they did the 1st Nova game at PPL but outside of that they strictly do home games. I get the interest in the old-timers would have in the game, but the students? I don't really see it that way. We played Bucknell & Colgate the past two years and zero buzz. Lafayette this fall will be the same.

I guess it has to stick in your craw that UD is travelling to Easton for a game (not this season)?

It's a rare occasion these days that any band travels, honestly. It's a fairly lucky phenomenon that Lehigh's band gets to travel to Princeton, and that's only an hour's drive (which is undoubtedly why it's the travel game).

As for Bucknell (3 hours) and Colgate (5 hours), I'm not too surprised that their fans didn't travel. Those are still pretty long distances to travel for a game. Additionally, Bucknell's football support has been mediocre at best over the years (though it is showing signs of improvement as their team has improved). Colgate's doesn't have bad road support but they're very far from everybody.

You would think Lafayette's fans would show up at Delaware, but I won't speak for them. All I'll say is that I know a good contingent of Lehigh fans would make the trip, and I think UD should know that. If their primary consideration was getting the most possible fans (as well as a good fan experience), they'd invite Lehigh down there as a part of a home-and-home rather than other schools.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Just curious LFN, how did the UNH crowd the last time we played compare to your other opponents? Considering how far away UNH is, I thought it was a pretty impressive showing based on what I see attending games home and away. And IIRC, UNH brought its band for one of the games. I saw significant number of fans and families of players from NJ, PA and MD along with our alumni from Metro NYC. Will there be another Lehigh-UNH series soon?

Another factor that I've seen be successful recently at UNH is getting a small group of students who champion school spirit and attendance at sporting events. At UNH that would be the Cat Pack. This past season I saw what arguably were the best student sections in my long association with UNH -- the Quarterfinal Football game vs Chattanooga and the America East Quarterfinal Basketball game vs Hartford. The outcome of some hard work by the Cat Pack! Attached are a couple of videos created by the Cat Pack leading up to the Quarterfinal and Semifinal playoff games this past season. The first one wasn't meant to make you suffer watching Fordham, but to see some miserable conditions (sleet that turned to rain) and this group of students still there. The daylight scene with the thundersticks was Homecoming this past season against William & Mary. The second one showing some of the student crowd in the end zone at an 8 PM kickoff on a December night in NH. I was told they were throwing corn starch to mimic snow. I know during the regular season that Friday night is HS Football, but Friday night lights was great. Not even snow squalls during tailgating put a damper on things. More people at the Illinois State game but arguably the most engaged crowd ever at a UNH game for Chattanooga.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Ol5c9HwAE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqw-9sIMuhk

Growing school spirit is built right into Freshman Orientation now. And it sure helps when your head coach is in the middle of it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE7ioxwud3A

[DFW HOYA]

Fom the Ivy league board, a great finish before over 30,000 at Franklin Field. Put a good product on the field, and the locals will follow


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhU5ouhdhXs

[CHIP72]

I was at the 2011 UNH/Lehigh game, and I thought New Hampshire (sadly) brought more fans to the game than Villanova, coming off a national championship the previous year, did in 2010 when they played at Lehigh.

[Go Green]

The Ivy is getting a little creative this season. Our TV contract with NBCSN requires several Friday night games. The Cornell-Dartmouth game in Hanover is slated for 8:00 PM. In November.

We will see if it helps attendance!

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I was at the 2011 UNH/Lehigh game, and I thought New Hampshire (sadly) brought more fans to the game than Villanova, coming off a national championship the previous year, did in 2010 when they played at Lehigh.

I was at both of those games and I agree. UNH brought a strong contingent. Liberty out did both of them. They even brought a bounce house.

Princeton and Fordham travel pretty well. Hopefully Penn brings a couple thousand this year.

[CHIP72]

The Ivy is getting a little creative this season. Our TV contract with NBCSN requires several Friday night games. The Cornell-Dartmouth game in Hanover is slated for 8:00 PM. In November.

We will see if it helps attendance!

Hey, speaking of the above, when exactly will the Ivy League release its start times for all of its conference games? The rest of the non-Division I-A/FBS football universe released the start times for games this season at least a month ago, if not longer.

[PAllen]

Party Friday night. Get up, head to north field to set up the tailgate. Drink. Eat something. Drink. Some folks tear down the tailgate and head back to set up cocktails, the rest of the house piles into the stadium by halftime. After the game, head back over the mountain, change for cocktails and catch the late game on the big screen while partaking in your beverages of choice. Then head out for Saturday night's party/parties. Wake up Sunday and hit the books.

It worked for years.

[Fordham]

This thread title reads to me like a hostage taking situation.

[RichH2]

Party Friday night. Get up, head to north field to set up the tailgate. Drink. Eat something. Drink. Some folks tear down the tailgate and head back to set up cocktails, the rest of the house piles into the stadium by halftime. After the game, head back over the mountain, change for cocktails and catch the late game on the big screen while partaking in your beverages of choice. Then head out for Saturday night's party/parties. Wake up Sunday and hit the books.

It worked for years.
:)Yup,altho for my time replace two of those cocktail breaks with tapping kegs. Not only did we survive we had a great time and thereafter thrived.

[Go Green]

Hey, speaking of the above, when exactly will the Ivy League release its start times for all of its conference games? The rest of the non-Division I-A/FBS football universe released the start times for games this season at least a month ago, if not longer.

I think the television deal was holding up that information. Dartmouth released its start times earlier this week. (Talk to Penn about why that game's time remains TBA)

http://www.dartmouthsports.com/SportSelect.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=11600&SPID=4719&SPSID=48874&DB_OEM_ID=11600

[Lehigh'98]

Party Friday night. Get up, head to north field to set up the tailgate. Drink. Eat something. Drink. Some folks tear down the tailgate and head back to set up cocktails, the rest of the house piles into the stadium by halftime. After the game, head back over the mountain, change for cocktails and catch the late game on the big screen while partaking in your beverages of choice. Then head out for Saturday night's party/parties. Wake up Sunday and hit the books.

It worked for years.

Exactly how it was when I was there(except for the Sunday books part)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Ivy is getting a little creative this season. Our TV contract with NBCSN requires several Friday night games. The Cornell-Dartmouth game in Hanover is slated for 8:00 PM. In November.

We will see if it helps attendance!

Thinking that they're banking on people confusing it for an ECAC outdoor hockey game by accident xlolx

[Engineer86]

They need to get the fraternities more ingrained like it used to be. I remember in the 90's the north field used to rock. Not all of those kids came in but a lot did. It use to bring something different to the game with a few thousand kids raging next to the stadium. Nothing else in the league was like it iirc.

I really think lights have to be considered. I said in another post that I don't buy the "lighting issue" regarding the walkways and parking lots. That is such an easy fix it's ridiculous. There might be some zoning hurdles or something else that's negating it. Either way, it's 2015, time to get with the times. Heck, the first night game at Wrigley was 27 years ago.

Also, freshen up the stadium. Give a reason for the casual, local football fans to come out and see a game there again. A new video board, sound system, updated/modernized locker room facility, updated concession areas plus lights. At some point the stadium has to get an overhaul. Even Stabler got a minor facelift after 30 years. That window is approaching for Goodman.

It pains me to say it but the right type of FBS game would help too. Getting a few student busses along with alums/fans to the Carrier Dome, to the Lincoln or down to Charlottesville for a game against UVA would help change the perception of Lehigh football and where they stand in the world. A quality Lehigh team can put forth a competitive effort vs the right type of FBS opponent. That would create a bit of buzz.

I remember watching Lehigh play at West Point when a large number of Lehigh fans turned out. Likewise with 1A Buffalo and ranked Penn at Franklin Field (Philly at night was cool) in 2002. Recently, they had an exceptional turnout for the tailgate and game at Towson in 2011. Lehigh people will some out if the event is fun and meaningful.

i think you have something with drawing in the fraternities, but a quality team and stronger schedule is key.

[Engineer86]

It's a rare occasion anymore that Delaware's band travels. I think they did the 1st Nova game at PPL but outside of that they strictly do home games. I get the interest in the old-timers would have in the game, but the students? I don't really see it that way. We played Bucknell & Colgate the past two years and zero buzz. Lafayette this fall will be the same.

I guess it has to stick in your craw that UD is travelling to Easton for a game (not this season)?

not really, but it does show why UD is mentioned so often in the thread that has fallen off over the past decade. Now that is a shame.

[dgtw]

I think having so many games on TV has a trickle down effect on smaller schools. At one time, a school could only be on TV once or twice a year and then only the really big games were on. So if you had to listen to Penn State on the radio anyway, you could still go to the Lehigh game and not miss anything. But with all the games on TV, someone who might have gone before will now stay home and watch it on TV. Even G5 schools will have a lot of their games televised so that is another hit for FCS attendance.

[CHIP72]

I think having so many games on TV has a trickle down effect on smaller schools. At one time, a school could only be on TV once or twice a year and then only the really big games were on. So if you had to listen to Penn State on the radio anyway, you could still go to the Lehigh game and not miss anything. But with all the games on TV, someone who might have gone before will now stay home and watch it on TV. Even G5 schools will have a lot of their games televised so that is another hit for FCS attendance.

Hell, a lot of Division I-AA/FCS schools, including Lehigh, have many of their games televised or at least (HD) streamed for free. That may not help in-stadium attendance either.

[Go Green]

Hell, a lot of Division I-AA/FCS schools, including Lehigh, have many of their games televised or at least (HD) streamed for free. That may not help in-stadium attendance either.


I used to drive 2-3 hours every year to watch Dartmouth play Penn and Princeton in person. Given that those games are now (at a minimum) live-streamed, I don't anymore.

(Of course, I also have a couple of young kids and they have their own weekend activities).

[Sader87]

I used to drive 2-3 hours every year to watch Dartmouth play Penn and Princeton in person. Given that those games are now (at a minimum) live-streamed, I don't anymore.

(Of course, I also have a couple of young kids and they have their own weekend activities).

Those are the two biggies imo....during the 60s, 70s, 80s, a college football game was pretty much "the only game in town" on an early Saturday afternoon in much of the Northeast. Many locals would go to a Dartmouth game in Hangovah, a Holy Cross game in Wisstah, a Yale game in New Haven etc etc.

The expansion of cable TV/internet streaming and a societal change, to a certain extent, of parents schlepping kids all ovah the place on Saturdays, has really eaten away at live attendance for FCS games in the Northeast....particularly games starting at 12:30, 1 o'clock.

[RichH2]

Find now,even if LU not on, I will check CI and watch one of the other PL games. Other than Lafayette,I find it easier to skip November games a.d keep my old bones warm at home.

[DFW HOYA]

Those are the two biggies imo....during the 60s, 70s, 80s, a college football game was pretty much "the only game in town" on an early Saturday afternoon in much of the Northeast. Many locals would go to a Dartmouth game in Hangovah, a Holy Cross game in Wisstah, a Yale game in New Haven etc etc.

The expansion of cable TV/internet streaming and a societal change, to a certain extent, of parents schlepping kids all ovah the place on Saturdays, has really eaten away at live attendance for FCS games in the Northeast....particularly games starting at 12:30, 1 o'clock.

It comes down to putting a good product on the field and the perception of that. Look at the drop off of Ivy attendance after the early 1980's, when the Ivies were consigned to I-AA.

http://static.psbin.com/m/t/11k0ud7be5w5lh/14fbguide-SeriesHistory.pdf

The public votes with its wallet and, and unfortunately for Holy Cross, they see the on-field talent as inferior to Boston College, Connecticut, and the other New England schools. Lafayette, Lehigh, and Bucknell were never more than regional players in college football but HC had a brand name that went beyond central Mass. That reputation withered as it retreated to the PL.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It is about putting a good product on the field but I also feel like the "stuff around the game" is a huge part, too. Over time the "stuff around the game" has been what's cut back the most. Some of that is the disappearance of traditional rivalry games (Cross/BC, Gate/Cuse) but not all.

[UAalum72]

It comes down to putting a good product on the field and the perception of that. Look at the drop off of Ivy attendance after the early 1980's, when the Ivies were consigned to I-AA.

http://static.psbin.com/m/t/11k0ud7be5w5lh/14fbguide-SeriesHistory.pdf

The public votes with its wallet and, and unfortunately for Holy Cross, they see the on-field talent as inferior to Boston College, Connecticut, and the other New England schools. Lafayette, Lehigh, and Bucknell were never more than regional players in college football but HC had a brand name that went beyond central Mass. That reputation withered as it retreated to the PL.
Yes, look at those numbers, but don't start in 1982. The steepest decline was between 1970 and 1980, when IL attendance dropped from over 20,000 to about 12,000. Now it's around 9,000.

Here's a chart I made from these numbers a few tears ago
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21015&stc=1
The Ivy League was founded to avoid the arms race and corruption of big-time football, They can't complain now because they succeeded.

[Go Green]

unfortunately for Holy Cross, they see the on-field talent as inferior to Boston College, Connecticut, and the other New England schools. Lafayette, Lehigh, and Bucknell were never more than regional players in college football but HC had a brand name that went beyond central Mass. That reputation withered as it retreated to the PL.

I don't dispute the point. But I don't understand what happened to change the public's mind.

Holy Cross, for the most part, played and beat the same teams in the 1960s as they are doing today. And they got the **** out of them by Syracuse in that decade, just as they (most likely) would today.

Did the general public collectively "wake up" beginning in the 1970s? Because comparing the competitive schedules between today and the 1960s, I see very little material difference.

[Sader87]

I don't dispute the point. But I don't understand what happened to change the public's mind.

Holy Cross, for the most part, played and beat the same teams in the 1960s as they are doing today. And they got the **** out of them by Syracuse in that decade, just as they (most likely) would today.

Did the general public collectively "wake up" beginning in the 1970s? Because comparing the competitive schedules between today and the 1960s, I see very little material difference.

Holy Cross is kind of an odd duck to quantify. We were basically 1-AA/FCS in all but name since the mid/late 1960s. The schedules were definitely tougher in the 1960s and 1970s, a mix of Ivies,final game with BC, Syracuse, Penn St, Rutgers, Temple, Army et al as well as some then Yankee Conference schools (mostly UConn and UMass....with a smattering of URI and UNH. But the crowds and support for much of that era (1965-1980) were waning. It was only when HC went 1-AA officially (pre-PL) that HC football sort of rebounded and crowds at Fitton grew, support for the program grew etc etc.

In a way, we may be the only school in the country (I can think of off the top of my head) that actually saw its home crowds and support grow after it dropped its program from 1-A to 1-AA....maybe Furman and Richmond too come to think of it.

The dropping of the BC series and going to the PL basically withered away that uptick in support though and the program essentially reached its nadir (on and off the gridiron) before scholarships were brought back.

[Go Green]

Yes, look at those numbers, but don't start in 1982. The steepest decline was between 1970 and 1980, when IL attendance dropped from over 20,000 to about 12,000. Now it's around 9,000.

Here's a chart I made from these numbers a few tears ago
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21015&stc=1
The Ivy League was founded to avoid the arms race and corruption of big-time football, They can't complain now because they succeeded.

Same question. What the hell happened in the 1970s that began the drop in attendance?

[Gater]

I think the change was that fans kept watching the country's top 20 teams (and that those teams were no longer coming to an Ancient 8 near you).

Colgate cracked the Div 1 Top 20 in 1977.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/1977-standings.html

Yale made the Top 20 in 1972.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/1972-standings.html

Dartmouth finished the 1970 season ranked #14.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/1970-standings.html

[DFW HOYA]

Over the years, the HC scheduling footprint has moved to teams with little or no interest in the region. Below are the opponents where HC played at least four times in a five year period (New England teams in bold):

1960 through 1964: Boston College, Boston U, Connecticut, Dartmouth, Penn State, Syracuse
1970 through 1974: Army, Boston College, Colgate, Connecticut, Dartmouth, Massachusetts, Temple, Rutgers
1980 through 1984: Boston College, Boston U, Brown, Colgate, Connecticut, Dartmouth, Harvard, Massachusetts
1990 through 1994: Dartmouth, Harvard, Massachusetts, Colgate, Bucknell, Fordham, Lehigh, Lafayette
2000 through 2004: Dartmouth, Harvard, Colgate, Bucknell, Fordham, Lehigh, Lafayette, Georgetown
2010 through 2014: Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Colgate, Bucknell, Fordham, Lehigh, Lafayette, Georgetown

Put another way: prior to 1986, HC had never played Lafayette, had played Lehigh in 1924 and not since, had played Bucknell twice, last in 1953, and cut ties with Georgetown and Fordham over 30 years previous. These teams meant nothing to the everyday fan that followed those teams above and would come to see Army or UMass or BC whether they were a Cruasader fan or not. And nothing against Bucknell, Georgetown or Lafayette, but the average walk-up fan in Central New England still does not care a whit about these teams if the alternative is watching a game with BC, UConn or even UMass. Now, it's fair that these may not be a true alternative, but that's the changing landscape.

[Go Green]

Over the years, the HC scheduling footprint has moved to teams with little or no interest in the region. Below are the opponents where HC played at least four times in a five year period (New England teams in bold):

1960 through 1964: Boston College, Boston U, Connecticut, Dartmouth, Penn State, Syracuse
1970 through 1974: Army, Boston College, Colgate, Connecticut, Dartmouth, Massachusetts, Temple, Rutgers
1980 through 1984: Boston College, Boston U, Brown, Colgate, Connecticut, Dartmouth, Harvard, Massachusetts
1990 through 1994: Dartmouth, Harvard, Massachusetts, Colgate, Bucknell, Fordham, Lehigh, Lafayette
2000 through 2004: Dartmouth, Harvard, Colgate, Bucknell, Fordham, Lehigh, Lafayette, Georgetown
2010 through 2014: Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Colgate, Bucknell, Fordham, Lehigh, Lafayette, Georgetown

Put another way: prior to 1986, HC had never played Lafayette, had played Lehigh in 1924 and not since, had played Bucknell twice, last in 1953, and cut ties with Georgetown and Fordham over 30 years previous. These teams meant nothing to the everyday fan that followed those teams above and would come to see Army or UMass or BC whether they were a Cruasader fan or not. And nothing against Bucknell, Georgetown or Lafayette, but the average walk-up fan in Central New England still does not care a whit about these teams if the alternative is watching a game with BC, UConn or even UMass. Now, it's fair that these may not be a true alternative, but that's the changing landscape.

This does make sense. The loss of local rivals probably did contribute heavily to the drop in HC's attendance.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Same question. What the hell happened in the 1970s that began the drop in attendance?

Tempting to say the sexual revolution. Also, coed education.

[UAalum72]

Same question. What the hell happened in the 1970s that began the drop in attendance?
Pro sports. In the early 60s the Red Sox were losing and drawing less than 15k, while the Patriots were playing at Fenway, Chestnut Hill, or Harvard. After the Impossible Dream in 67 and Schaefer Stadium was built in 71 both teams probably doubled their attendance. The Miracle Mets and Super Bowl Jets in 69 would've had an affect in southern Conn. That's a lot of disposable entertainment $ (and also time) sucked out of sports fans.

[Go...gate]

Tempting to say the sexual revolution. Also, coed education.

Anybody remember the Vietnam War and Watergate? A lot of college kids could care less about football in between the late 1960's - early/mid 1970's.

You could really see it at Princeton. In the 1950's and early-mid 60's, football was a hot ticket.

[BluBengal07]

xcoffeex this seems to be more like a college football(outside P5+) problem than just Lehigh....

product on the field, marketing, history(rivalries/interesting match-ups), local community engagement, student population engagement.

[CHIP72]

xcoffeex this seems to be more like a college football(outside P5+) problem than just Lehigh....

product on the field, marketing, history(rivalries/interesting match-ups), local community engagement, student population engagement.

I think LFN wanted the thread discussion to be broader than just Lehigh but was using Lehigh as an example he could relate to.

[BluBengal07]

I think LFN wanted the thread discussion to be broader than just Lehigh but was using Lehigh as an example he could relate to.

have a heart-to-heart with AGS? Yea, it's a good subject though. even for relating, the title would be just as powerful without mentioning Lehigh, if not more. xdontknowx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

have a heart-to-heart with AGS? Yea, it's a good subject though. even for relating, the title would be just as powerful without mentioning Lehigh, if not more. xdontknowx

I could have made a broader post with a bigger viewpoint but IMO its better to look at it with the weight of nearly two decades of observation. Lehigh feels the national trends but ultimately need local solutions to buck those trends.

[Mr. C]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/07/how-to-get-lehigh-fans-to-games-and.html

Certainly germane to Lehigh fans and Patriot League fans, but maybe there's some application as well to raising attendance at other FCS schools as well. A longform piece that attempts to cover it all.
Let them tailgate INSIDE of Goodman Stadium, complete with their wine and cheese.

[Neighbor2]

Let them tailgate INSIDE of Goodman Stadium, complete with their wine and cheese.

Well, there's plenty of room available for that between the sidelines and the grandstand. It's hard to hear the pads hit anymore. Goodman ain't no Taylor Stadium, and that intimate quality, probably unique in all of college football, was appealing. Goodman games are somewhat sterile now, at least for Taylor regulars still living!