Success or Failure?

[Smitty]

I was thinking this morning about when to call a season a success or failure. With Western I would always consider it a success if they managed to get 2 or 3 wins a season. Now that I've had my first winning season in a very long time I would be happy with 2 winning seasons in a row. Whether it be 6-5 or 11-0 this year I would consider it to be a good year.

Now for programs that have an established history.

For instance, NDSU will be once again favored to win the title. With the continued success is anything less than winning the whole thing a failure?

What are your opinions and what is the success or failure point for your team this year?

[344Johnson]

I was thinking this morning about when to call a season a success or failure. With Western I would always consider it a success if they managed to get 2 or 3 wins a season. Now that I've had my first winning season in a very long time I would be happy with 2 winning seasons in a row. Whether it be 6-5 or 11-0 this year I would consider it to be a good year.

Now for programs that have an established history.

For instance, NDSU will be once again favored to win the title. With the continued success is anything less than winning the whole thing a failure?

What are your opinions and what is the success or failure point for your team this year?

I'd say for NDSU, going to the playoffs is a success, probably winning a game or two once they get there.

Growing up, I'm born in '92, I was only around for one season(2000) where they made it far in the playoffs until they won my sophomore year of college.

Freshman year they went 7-4, lost to EWU in the quarters. I don't think anyone was disappointed with that season and now that they will probably start regressing, that wouldn't be considered a failure by any reasonable person.

Cue some Bison fans to come in and "blah blah program blah blah anything less than a title is a failure in Fargo blah blah 344 kicks babies and punches kittens

[Mattymc727]

With 11 straight years, not making the playoffs and breaking the streak would be failure for UNH. Its another favorable CAA schedule for us and with the talent coming back, playoffs should be a lock. Anything beyond that is success for this program considering the resources and fan base.

[McNeese72]

For McNeese, the standard was set in the late 90's and early 2000's. Success was reaching the playoffs and making a deep run in the playoffs.

We haven't won a playoff game since 2002 so we haven't had a successful season in the minds of most fans since then.


Doc

[BisonFan02]

I'd say for NDSU, going to the playoffs is a success, probably winning a game or two once they get there.

Growing up, I'm born in '92, I was only around for one season(2000) where they made it far in the playoffs until they won my sophomore year of college.

Freshman year they went 7-4, lost to EWU in the quarters. I don't think anyone was disappointed with that season and now that they will probably start regressing, that wouldn't be considered a failure by any reasonable person.

Cue some Bison fans to come in and "blah blah program blah blah anything less than a title is a failure in Fargo blah blah 344 kicks babies and punches kittens

This....nattys or bust homie. I guess I wouldn't call it "disappointed", but the ultimate goal for the Bison every year is to win the title. I would draw the line in the sand personally at playoffs and competitive while there, but that is just me.

[AmsterBison]

For instance, NDSU will be once again favored to win the title. With the continued success is anything less than winning the whole thing a failure?

What are your opinions and what is the success or failure point for your team this year?

It would be disappointing not to win another national championship, but not a failure.

I've seen what failure looks like at NDSU, and it would take a change at the top and two years of terrible recruiting to plumb those depths. That said, in the Missouri Valley, the margin between 8-3 and 3-8 is tiny - especially compared to the chasm it was back in the D2 days (and NDSU's D2 conference was arguably the best that there ever was.)

As I've gotten older, I find it more enjoyable to take each game as they come.

[Daytripper]

With SHSU's recent success, I would say that bare minimum success is making the playoffs. Abject failure would be a losing record in conference.

[Professor Chaos]

Usually I think a championship buys you about a 4 year grace period where you can't really consider anything a failure. After 4 championships in a row I don't think I'd consider anything short of a bevy of off the field embarrassments a failure.

And a "failure" for NDSU would make getting extra/moving season tickets easier and make reserved tailgating spots easier to get so it wouldn't be all bad.

[FUBeAR]

In sports, I always view "Ultimate Success" as winning the Championship(s) that my team is eligible to win. So, for Mercer, that would mean winning the SoCon and FCS National Championship. Conversely, I view "Failure" as the team failing to play in any game as hard as they can, failing to prepare properly for every game, and/or failing to execute with a very low error rate (SixSigma kind of thinking there). So, for Mercer, that means failing to do any or all of those things in every game.

I realize my "Failure" definition is not outcome-based, which doesn't sit well with the typical sports fan of today. I get that. But, sometimes the other team(s) is/are just better; sometimes so much better that no amount of hard play, preparation, and execution can overcome the talent disparity. If that's the case for Mercer 11 times in 2015 AND they do all of the above (play hard, prepare, execute) in every game, then an 0-11 season will be a "Success"; not the 'Ultimate Success" obviously, but still a Success which can be built upon for the oh-so-often cited "Next Year." So, my "Success" definition is not outcome-based either. I guess I'll just go with that guy who coaches a pretty fair football team in Tuscaloosa, AL and focus on the process instead of the outcome in terms of assessing "Success" and "Failure" for the Bears in 2015

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Failure for Lehigh would be back-2-back losing seasons and a 3rd straight loss to Lafayette.

Success would be 7-4 and win over Lafayette. The schedule is easier than last year and there's also an expectation to win at Lehigh. I don't see this team seriously competing for a league title this year. It's still one year away from getting the defense completely rebuilt....

[RichH2]

Failure for Lehigh would be back-2-back losing seasons and a 3rd straight loss to Lafayette.

Success would be 7-4 and win over Lafayette. The schedule is easier than last year and there's also an expectation to win at Lehigh. I don't see this seem seriously competing for a league title this year. It's still one year away from getting the defense completely rebuilt....
7-4 ,Ws over Pards and Bison,I'm a happy camper. PL could be a horse race tho. Rams lost 17 starters. Rest of us all have issues that need to be resolved. Admittedly,Lehigh has the biggest issue by a wide margin (:.

[lionsrking2]

In my mind, a successful season is one where the program exceeds expectations, has few, if any, off field issues, and produces players and story lines which keep the fan base engaged and looking forward to recruiting and the following year once the season is done. A failure would pretty much be the exact opposite. And then there are seasons somewhere in between.

[BEAR]

I think for UCA fans the standard we have come to expect is at least making the playoffs. With the recent turmoil with the former coach our expectations have been slighted. Plus recruiting students to come to Arkansas isn't easy. Not a huge talent pool in this state. But even with that making the playoffs is expected. Last year we lost it by a 53 yard field goal to Mo. State with time expiring.

Here's my breakdown.
1. Make playoffs. That means its a new season. Throw out the records.
2. Win conference. That's tough to do when you hang with the conference leaders and lose one to newcomer.
3. Have a winning record overall. Win 7 FCS games.
4. Have a winning conference record.
5. Give your best effort but still have a losing record. That's happened.

I think as fans if you watch the game and see your team NOT giving it their all and quitting on plays it pretty much seals your support level for that year. That's a failure.
If you see your team believing in themselves, giving the extra effort on the field, and a coach inspiring them to do as much as they can with what they have. That's success.

That extra effort will pay off in the end with conference wins, playoff wins, and eventually a natty. For a while there I thought the Bears and Bison were on similar tracks with UCA's success when it came into the SLC even though we weren't playoff eligible until 2010. How two paths diverged with this coaching mess. Now we are back on track and averaging 41 ppg on offense we just need to shore up that defense. We do that and I will consider it a success..why? because the wins will come.

[OL FU]

I am an incrementalist:)
Obviously the "standard" for Furman was set in the 80s and reared its head a few times in the 00s. But success would mean getting back in the playoffs which probably means 7-2 (with 2 more losses to FBS teams). Failure means anything less that 6-5.

[tenNesseeCat]

For me, given Western's past, anything near .500 or better used to be a great year. With a little taste of winning last year, expectation for this year are shifted up. In fact, with the attitude change from top to bottom in Cullowhee, everything has shifted positive. It's a spectrum kind of thing for me. last year was a GOOD year, but not what it could have been. We let one get away at PC and USF, and could have played much better games vs Samford and UTC. I'll rate it 7 out of 10. The same record as last year would only get a 6 this year. I think we have the potential for an 8 this year. That would include winning the ones we won last year, and beating PC and Samford. While playing UTC tough, and being in discussion for the playoffs. The biggest change for me, has been a visible improvement in the attitude in general about athletics at WCU. No disrespect to anyone, but I didn't have very high expectations under the previous leadership. So 4 wins was a good year. Now 4 wins is under achieving.

[DFW HOYA]

Interesting topic for Georgetown, which has posted one winning season since 1999 and none on the horizon.

Put aside the 45-60 scholarship gap within its own conference which neither GU nor the PL leadership seems overly concerned about. Put aside the archaic league rules which allow some PL schools to accept kids that couldn't even apply to Georgetown. There's just not a lot of momentum to invest in this program right now given its tenuous place in the Patriot League and whether it should carve out a future as a wayward independent or as a part-timer in the NEC. Better yet, why not aim for the CAA? Would the record against 60-scholarship teams be much different?

The Massey Ratings predicted two wins. Maybe three, probably not much more. Would that be a success?

And don't get me started on the stadium. Better yet, let someone else speak to it:

"Look at the result of a very modest investment in physical infrastructure and the message it sends to top high school talent......as [Georegetown's] Lacrosse and Football continue to wallow in disappointing season after disappointing season in front of smaller and smaller crowds sitting in the "temporary" bleachers now a decade old."


Win or lose, the Hoyas will compete and get knocked around doing so. But they will dust off the jerseys and compete again the next week. And they still stand a reasonable chance of beating Holy Cross at the end of the season. In between, who knows.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

7-4 ,Ws over Pards and Bison,I'm a happy camper. PL could be a horse race tho. Rams lost 17 starters. Rest of us all have issues that need to be resolved. Admittedly,Lehigh has the biggest issue by a wide margin (:.

I still think Fordham has the most talent in the league right now. The transfer QB from Marshall seems pretty legit. The Rams defense is what could hold them back. They were horrific like Lehigh at times last year. Still, with Moorhead, an elite RB and good QB play they should win 8 or 9 games imo.

One of the biggest issues for Lehigh has been lack of size along the D-Line. That has absolutely been addressed. The LB's are a little light but at least they have a top-shelf player in Caslow. The secondary remains a question. Even marginal play would be an improvement from the back-end. Perhaps a legit FCS D-Line will help them out. Now it's up to Botts to put the players in the right position to succeed.

I'm with most people in that the offense could be really good so long as Shafnisky is healthy. Pelletier is a much better #1 than Parrish and OL deserves some luck in the health department. The freshman RB's could be extremely special. I'm a huge Bragalone fan.

If they post another losing season along with a 3rd straight loss to Lafayette the heat will mount on Coen.

[RichH2]

I still think Fordham has the most talent in the league right now. The transfer QB from Marshall seems pretty legit. The Rams defense is what could hold them back. They were horrific like Lehigh at times last year. Still, with Moorhead, an elite RB and good QB play they should win 8 or 9 games imo.

One of the biggest issues for Lehigh has been lack of size along the D-Line. That has absolutely been addressed. The LB's are a little light but at least they have a top-shelf player in Caslow. The secondary remains a question. Even marginal play would be an improvement from the back-end. Perhaps a legit FCS D-Line will help them out. Now it's up to Botts to put the players in the right position to succeed.

I'm with most people in that the offense could be really good so long as Shafnisky is healthy. Pelletier is a much better #1 than Parrish and OL deserves some luck in the health department. The freshman RB's could be extremely special. I'm a huge Bragalone fan.

If they post another losing season along with a 3rd straight loss to Lafayette the heat will mount on Coen.
Yup. Andy's tenure a series of 3 yr up-down cycles. Well,we had our 3 downs,due for an up. O has veteran deep OL and lots of weapons. Folmar has to show something this season. Perhaps a Hank Small kind of year. No D but we'll outscore you. ???

[Catsfan90]

With 11 straight years, not making the playoffs and breaking the streak would be failure for UNH. Its another favorable CAA schedule for us and with the talent coming back, playoffs should be a lock. Anything beyond that is success for this program considering the resources and fan base.
When I look at the facilities and the support given to this program by the state and local population, I am Impressed each time they appear on the field with gear and uniforms!

So I'd say that anything more than that will still continue to be a miracle for me.

[dewey]

Usually I think a championship buys you about a 4 year grace period where you can't really consider anything a failure. After 4 championships in a row I don't think I'd consider anything short of a bevy of off the field embarrassments a failure.

And a "failure" for NDSU would make getting extra/moving season tickets easier and make reserved tailgating spots easier to get so it wouldn't be all bad.

I often times think about the only way to get season tickets would be for NDSU to have a few down years. I would say a losing record would probably be a failure as there have only been 3 of those in the last 50 or so years. Of course if you listen to some of the people that call into the Bison post game show if NDSU wins by anything less than 10000000000 to 0 that failed that game.

Dewey

[BisonFan02]

I often times think about the only way to get season tickets would be for NDSU to have a few down years. I would say a losing record would probably be a failure as there have only been 3 of those in the last 50 or so years. Of course if you listen to some of the people that call into the Bison post game show if NDSU wins by anything less than 10000000000 to 0 that failed that game.

Dewey

The Bison call in show on KFGO makes me want to put my head through a wall......makes Bisonville look like a hippie drum circle.

[clenz]

To judge a season as simply one of two things (success or failure) isn't entirely possible, IMO.

[BisonFan02]

To judge a season as simply one of two things (success or failure) isn't entirely possible, IMO.

All perspective....with a **** ton of gray area versus black/white. Some want to fire coaches after one losing season...others paint years on their walls for playoff appearances. :D xawesomex

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yup. Andy's tenure a series of 3 yr up-down cycles. Well,we had our 3 downs,due for an up. O has veteran deep OL and lots of weapons. Folmar has to show something this season. Perhaps a Hank Small kind of year. No D but we'll outscore you. ???

Andy survived 2008 and more importantly 2009 by beating Lafayette and hiring Cecchini/firing Brown.

This is going to be a pivotal year for this coaching staff. It's year #2 with the new OC/DC and scholarships have taken hold. Last season was a bit of mulligan, 2015 not so much.

Gilmore has the hottest seat in the league imo....

[BEAR]

I often times think about the only way to get season tickets would be for NDSU to have a few down years. I would say a losing record would probably be a failure as there have only been 3 of those in the last 50 or so years. Of course if you listen to some of the people that call into the Bison post game show if NDSU wins by anything less than 10000000000 to 0 that failed that game.

Dewey

I hear that crap all the time here in Arkansas. If the pigs have a bad season, which they have done ALOT lately, they fill the airwaves with "remember the 1964 national championship?" and "every recruit they sign will take them to the natty EVERY YEAR. Plus ESPN has something against them. So you're telling me two successful season in this century and you are Natty bound? Gotta turn it off. One word. BAMA.

[Gangtackle11]

No worse than 9-2 in regular season & at the very least 1 if not 2 playoff wins for Villanova not to consider it a unsuccessful season.

Failure in John Robertson's last season is not an option!

[KPSUL]

This will be a rebuilding year for the offense, I would consider it a successful season if UNH makes the playoffs for the 12th consecutive year. However, I don't see it being failure if they don't.

[Go Green]

Dartmouth's over/under on 2015 victories will be 8.

Anything above that, a success.

Anything below that, a disappointment.

[AmsterBison]

All perspective....with a **** ton of gray area versus black/white. Some want to fire coaches after one losing season...others paint years on their walls for playoff appearances. :D xawesomex

Cripes, there are people who want to fire the coaches at halftime if the game isn't a blowout. Usually, they calm down pretty quickly but that's still pretty crazy.

[Bisonator]

Cripes, there are people who want to fire the coaches at halftime if the game isn't a blowout. Usually, they calm down pretty quickly but that's still pretty crazy.

Usually just the OC. Fire Polasek, save season!:D

[DFW HOYA]

Gilmore has the hottest seat in the league imo....

Have to agree. 11 seasons, career record now under .500.

Th level of pressure, from most to least:

1. Tom Gilmore (HC): A nine win season in 2009, but 9-26 in his last three seasons.
2. Andy Coen (Leh): Three straight losses to Lafayette would not sit well.
3. Dan Hunt (Colg): No Red Raider team has been under .500 three straight years since 1995.
4. Joe Susan (Buck): This is the closest the Bison have been to the title since 1996, so there's some pressure to succeed.
5. Frank Tavani (Laf): Five straight under .500? Doesn't matter. Frank's there for 3-4 more years and has two straight wins over Lehigh.
6. Joe Moorhead (Ford): Best coach at Fordham since Sleepy Jim Crowley, he may be on a few MAC short-lists after 2015.
7. Rob Sgarlata (Gtown): Unless it's basketball, coaches at Georgetown don't have a hot seat.

[BisonFan02]

Usually just the OC. Fire Polasek, save season!:D

Run the damn ball!!!! xlolx

[Terry2889]

This will be a rebuilding year for the offense, I would consider it a successful season if UNH makes the playoffs for the 12th consecutive year. However, I don't see it being failure if they don't.

This is the first time, in a long time, where if UNH didn't make the playoffs but made significant strides in developing their new talent (Which I believe there's a ton of) I wouldn't be entirely disappointed. I really don't need to see our QB launch two overthrows to wide open receivers in the semis anytime soon :(

[Catsfan90]

This is the first time, in a long time, where if UNH didn't make the playoffs but made significant strides in developing their new talent (Which I believe there's a ton of) I wouldn't be entirely disappointed. I really don't need to see our QB launch two overthrows to wide open receivers in the semis anytime soon :(

I watched that game the other day on ESPN 3. And I literally cringed when I saw it again. It was bad enough in person, but to see it being played out on TV was definitely difficult. I look for quite a bit of improvement in Goldrich this season.

[Mattymc727]

UNH has a really easy schedule, considering the only tough road games are San Jose State, W&M, and maybe Stony Brook? UNH has ALWAYS been able to replace offensive talent (Ball, Boyle, Orlando, Fox, Mason, and Sicko to name a few). There is offensive talent on the roster, we just havent seen it yet. Having a senior QB and most of the Oline retunr helps big time. Considering the much less talented UNH teams that HAVE made the playoffs in the last 11 years, it would be failure to break the streak now.

UNH isnt a title contender yet, but they sure as hell are a top 10 team still....

[bluehenbillk]

Delaware is in as bad shape as I can ever remember. If they go 7-4 this year Dave Brock should have his contract extended. If they do worse, a lot of shat is going to hit the fan....

[RichH2]

Have to agree. 11 seasons, career record now under .500.

Th level of pressure, from most to least:

1. Tom Gilmore (HC): A nine win season in 2009, but 9-26 in his last three seasons.
2. Andy Coen (Leh): Three straight losses to Lafayette would not sit well.
3. Dan Hunt (Colg): No Red Raider team has been under .500 three straight years since 1995.
4. Joe Susan (Buck): This is the closest the Bison have been to the title since 1996, so there's some pressure to succeed.
5. Frank Tavani (Laf): Five straight under .500? Doesn't matter. Frank's there for 3-4 more years and has two straight wins over Lehigh.
6. Joe Moorhead (Ford): Best coach at Fordham since Sleepy Jim Crowley, he may be on a few MAC short-lists after 2015.
7. Rob Sgarlata (Gtown): Unless it's basketball, coaches at Georgetown don't have a hot seat.
Think Gilmore is the only one on the hot seat,coming into the season. Coen probably not yet but another bad year and a liss to Pards will put him there. If he beats Pards,regardless of overall record,he's OK.

[DFW HOYA]

Think Gilmore is the only one on the hot seat,coming into the season. Coen probably not yet but another bad year and a liss to Pards will put him there. If he beats Pards,regardless of overall record,he's OK.

Agreed. The PL isn't exactly the SEC when it comes to pressure on coaches. It isn't even the Southland.

No particular heat on Ivy coaches. Cornell may have some expectations for Archer in year three, but the others are secure. Some of the other coaches (Estes, Murphy) have the football version of tenure.

[number1]

Simple, beat our 2 main rivals, win the conference title, and get us into the bowl game.

[MRuler]

As for Albany we need to continue building on last years rebound. Last year at 7-5 was due in part to an easy OOC schedule. OOC schedule this year includes a date with FBS Buffalo, Holy Cross and Duquesne. CAA games that we should of won last year against Delaware and JMU will need to be won this year to show progress. And of course beat Stony Brook again.

6-5 is expected but 7-4 would be a great season at this stage of our programs growth

[TheRevSFA]

Does getting rid of JC Harper count as a success?

[Daytripper]

Does getting rid of JC Harper count as a success?


Yes. It made you a better team.

[TheRevSFA]

Yes. It made you a better team.

I'm considering making it a benchmark

[Catsfan90]

UNH has a really easy schedule, considering the only tough road games are San Jose State, W&M, and maybe Stony Brook? UNH has ALWAYS been able to replace offensive talent (Ball, Boyle, Orlando, Fox, Mason, and Sicko to name a few). There is offensive talent on the roster, we just havent seen it yet. Having a senior QB and most of the Oline retunr helps big time. Considering the much less talented UNH teams that HAVE made the playoffs in the last 11 years, it would be failure to break the streak now.

UNH isnt a title contender yet, but they sure as hell are a top 10 team still....
Another factor to keep in mind as well is that although it is an easy UNH schedule, the CAA schedule is still much more difficult than most. Yes we are not playing Villanova or JMU this year, but we are still playing a vastly improved Albany/ Stony Brook, as well as a good Richmond team.

[Go Green]

No particular heat on Ivy coaches. Cornell may have some expectations for Archer in year three, but the others are secure. Some of the other coaches (Estes, Murphy) have the football version of tenure.

The Cornell guys are getting antsy and want to see progress. If Archer doesn't show improvement (and I don't think he will), I would not be surprised for Cornell to pull the plug.

As for "tenure," a few years ago everyone would have agreed that Bagnoli would be at Penn forever. Several mediocre seasons in a row, he's out and at Columbia. People are debating whether he voluntarily resigned at Penn or was pushed out.

As for Estes, two words: John Anderson. http://www.nytimes.com/1983/11/18/sports/scouting-052868.html

Estes' career is following a very similar pattern. You don't get manhandled by Georgetown and declare you have tenure.

[Sader87]

Anderson was a great coach at Brown....just looked him up, sad to see he passed away relatively young in 1998. He really turned Brown football around in the 1970s....Brown was probably the best team after Yale in the Ancient VIII for much of the 1970s.

[walliver]

The true definition of success is on-field improvement, competing hard in every game, and graduating players with a real education.

That being said, I would define a successful season for Wofford as making the playoffs We have two OOC FCS home games and a winnable FBS (Idaho). Our conference schedule is favorable with Chatty, Western, and Furman at home (for the first time since 2012 for each of them), and the Citadel away (in a series which tends to favor the visiting team for some inexplicable reason).

[PaladinFan]

I am an incrementalist:)
Obviously the "standard" for Furman was set in the 80s and reared its head a few times in the 00s. But success would mean getting back in the playoffs which probably means 7-2 (with 2 more losses to FBS teams). Failure means anything less that 6-5.

I'm with you. I think Furman fans would just like to look at 2014 as an aberration and be comfortable that 3-8 with losses to VMI and Presbyterian are not "the new normal."

I think 2013 showed what Furman can be in this new era. You could fill a cruise ship, though, with the great players and teams that simply could never stay healthy enough to really make a difference. Could have all the talent in the world, and it won't make a difference if the guys are on the sideline.

Considering the difficult schedule, I will give a winning record a success grade. Anything under that and I think the natives will start getting restless.

[kdinva]

The true definition of success is on-field improvement, competing hard in every game, and graduating players with a real education.
.

xthumbsupx

[Hammerhead]

For most teams, improving the won-loss record from last year should be a success. As for NDSU, I think a successful season is winning at least one playoff game.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The bar is set pretty high now at NDSU.

IMO, making the playoffs is a good benchmark for defining a successful season or not.