Taking Up For Carson Wentz

[SU DOG]

The NDSU QB was not included on the STATS list and this Bison Blogger seems to take offense at that. He does make some excellent points about playing good under pressure.

http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/all-american-quarterback/

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Let's just put it this way. I wouldn't trade Carson Wentz for ANYBODY.

[344Johnson]

Let's just put it this way. I wouldn't trade Carson Wentz for ANYBODY.

Anybody??? I'm going to assume you mean any FCS qb.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Anybody??? I'm going to assume you mean any FCS qb.

Anybody. This is the extent to which I'm going to feed the troll. Nothing more.

[dewey]

The simple fact is the other QB's play in offenses that will produce higher statistics for the quarterback then NDSU's does. I wouldn't trade Carson for any other quarterback on that list.

Dewey

[chattownmocs]

I was surprised at how good Wentzs #s were. I still don't think you can scream and yell that he factually is a better QB than Huesman though. Huesmans numbers are a little better. Wentzs team won the national title. NDSUs fans are a little over outraged though. He is a 2nd year starter. The previous 3 national titles can't be credited to him.

[Milktruck74]

QB is one of the few positions that you don't necessarily want the "BEST" one....but the BEST one for your system. My best Example is What Steve Spurrier did with Danny Wurful and Tim Teebow....Neither were the BEST, but I'll bet he wouldn't have traded them for anyone else...Could you see Jamis Winston in Spurrier's system? TRAIN WRECK!!!!!!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Let's compare Carson to the one other quarterback on that list that I've seen, Tre Roberson. For all his athleticism and whatever, a large part of the loss in that game can be attributed to him. He clearly left too much time on the clock with his 55 yard run. You might blame that on the OC but when they got on offense again, he got an illegal substitution penalty for trying to clock to ball too fast with too many players still on the field and scrambled a ton of time off the clock with his happy feet.

Juxtapose that with Carson. When we was under pressure, he got rid of the ball. He didn't run if he didn't have to because the clock would have kept running. On his final pass, he knew the zero blitz was coming and he had a plan before the ball was snapped what he would do. He made sure Crockett would pick up the blitzer on his weak side and he threw it up to where his receiver could make a play on it.

You can be as athletic as you want but when it comes down to ice water in the veins, CW has it.

[dewey]

Let's compare Carson to the one other quarterback on that list that I've seen, Tre Roberson. For all his athleticism and whatever, a large part of the loss in that game can be attributed to him. He clearly left too much time on the clock with his 55 yard run. You might blame that on the OC but when they got on offense again, he got an illegal substitution penalty for trying to clock to ball too fast with too many players still on the field and scrambled a ton of time off the clock with his happy feet.

Juxtapose that with Carson. When we was under pressure, he got rid of the ball. He didn't run if he didn't have to because the clock would have kept running. On his final pass, he knew the zero blitz was coming and he had a plan before the ball was snapped what he would do. He made sure Crockett would pick up the blitzer on his weak side and he threw it up to where his receiver could make a play on it.

You can be as athletic as you want but when it comes down to ice water in the veins, CW has it.

Trying to put any blame on Roberson because there was too much time left is quite a stretch. Had the Illinois State defense stopped NDSU he would have engineered a game winning drive for the National Championship and been a huge part of a 2 score fourth quarter comeback.

If I have time later I will post a comparison of all of the quarterbacks statistics.

Dewey

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Trying to put any blame on Roberson because there was too much time left is quite a stretch. Had the Illinois State defense stopped NDSU he would have engineered a game winning drive for the National Championship and been a huge part of a 2 score fourth quarter comeback.

If I have time later I will post a comparison of all of the quarterbacks statistics.

Dewey

I've watched that 4th quarter 100 times easily. Forget the go ahead TD for ISU. NDSU gets the ball back with 1:35 and immediately gets a procedure penalty so it's 1st and 15.

You see Wentz take the snap, progress through his reads and toss a dart right to Urzendowski - 7 seconds
Next Snap sees RJ loose on the outside, another 1st down. 25 seconds down
Next play sees Crockett has a step and improvises a long pass down the sideline, incomplete 33 seconds down
Next play under pressure throws it away 38 seconds down
Next play was the bomb to RJ now some time to kill so they run for the TD

Every play he was standing tall in the pocket with a solid plan on what to do with the ball every single play.

----------------------------

Roberson gets the ball back with 33 seconds to go but only needs to get to FG range.

First play pass for first down - so far so good
Next play is the clock with the guy running off the field so illegal substitution - 24 seconds to go but only needing 40 or so yards
Under pressure he takes off taking 11 seconds, almost half of the time, off the clock.
Next play is thrown into double coverage, game over

If you're going to tell me that Tre Roberson is an all-American and Carson Wentz is not, you clearly never saw that.

[Bisonator]

People get way too worked up over pre-season lists. Most of them are garbage.

[dewey]

Was Wentz better on his last drive then Roberson...yes. However to make the case that Wentz is a better quarterback based only on those two drives is incorrect IMHO. I do think Wentz is a better quarterback then a couole on the quarterbacks ahead of him. The All-America teams are generally statistics driven and a NDSU quarterback will not put up those kind of numbers because the NDSU system doesn't need to him to.

Like Clenz has said before it would be nice to see someone put together an All-America team based on the offensive philosophy. The offensive line may not change much but the running backs and quarterbacks certainly would. West coast/pro style, spread and possibly a triple option team.

48 days until Bison football!

Dewey

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Was Wentz better on his last drive then Roberson...yes. However to make the case that Wentz is a better quarterback based only on those two drives is incorrect IMHO. I do think Wentz is a better quarterback then a couole on the quarterbacks ahead of him. The All-America teams are generally statistics driven and a NDSU quarterback will not put up those kind of numbers because the NDSU system doesn't need to him to.

Like Clenz has said before it would be nice to see someone put together an All-America team based on the offensive philosophy. The offensive line may not change much but the running backs and quarterbacks certainly would. West coast/pro style, spread and possibly a triple option team.

48 days until Bison football!

Dewey

I guess my example was an illustration of this same point. Statistics aside, who would you want with the ball on a game saving drive? We absolutely got that question answered.

[344Johnson]

Let's compare Carson to the one other quarterback on that list that I've seen, Tre Roberson. For all his athleticism and whatever, a large part of the loss in that game can be attributed to him. He clearly left too much time on the clock with his 55 yard run. You might blame that on the OC but when they got on offense again, he got an illegal substitution penalty for trying to clock to ball too fast with too many players still on the field and scrambled a ton of time off the clock with his happy feet.

Juxtapose that with Carson. When we was under pressure, he got rid of the ball. He didn't run if he didn't have to because the clock would have kept running. On his final pass, he knew the zero blitz was coming and he had a plan before the ball was snapped what he would do. He made sure Crockett would pick up the blitzer on his weak side and he threw it up to where his receiver could make a play on it.

You can be as athletic as you want but when it comes down to ice water in the veins, CW has it.

3700 yards of offense for Wentz and 31 TD's.

4200 yards for Roberson and 42 total TD's playing pretty similar competition.

If you are going to go after a quarterback who Carson should be replacing on the list, I'd recommend going elsewhere.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I guess my example was an illustration of this same point. Statistics aside, who would you want with the ball on a game saving drive? We absolutely got that question answered.


No question....Carson.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

3700 yards of offense for Wentz and 31 TD's.

4200 yards for Roberson and 42 total TD's playing pretty similar competition.

If you are going to go after a quarterback who Carson should be replacing on the list, I'd recommend going elsewhere.


Same competition...yes, but totally different offensive philosophies. Fast break spread offense vs conservative power running offense.

ISU's offense design is to hurry up down the field and score whereas NDSU would pound you death with a 8-10 minute drive.

Roberson will have gaudy numbers again this year but like NoDak mentioned, I would take CW over anyone in the FCS right now.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Was Wentz better on his last drive then Roberson...yes. However to make the case that Wentz is a better quarterback based only on those two drives is incorrect IMHO. I do think Wentz is a better quarterback then a couole on the quarterbacks ahead of him. The All-America teams are generally statistics driven and a NDSU quarterback will not put up those kind of numbers because the NDSU system doesn't need to him to.

Like Clenz has said before it would be nice to see someone put together an All-America team based on the offensive philosophy. The offensive line may not change much but the running backs and quarterbacks certainly would. West coast/pro style, spread and possibly a triple option team.

48 days until Bison football!

Dewey


Good points

Roberson is very good in his style of offense and so is CW.

An interesting debate would be of all the QBs on the preseason list, or not on it, which one would have the best chance of a NFL career?

[smallcollegefbfan]

Let's just put it this way. I wouldn't trade Carson Wentz for ANYBODY.

What about Brock Jensen? I remember NDSU fans saying they would not trade him for anyone? lol

I'm just teasing you because actually while I will not put Carson on my preseason 1st or 2nd team All-America list I would indeed pick him over any QB in FCS. He's the best. The issue is these are preseason All-America picks. The goal is to pick who will be an All-American and with how NDSU plays if Carson is able to put up the numbers to be an All-American then he will be a first round pick. He's a better NFL prospect than Joe Flacco was. The only area where he isn't as good as Flacco is arm strength and he isn't below Flacco by much there. It's very close on the arm strength.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

What about Brock Jensen? I remember NDSU fans saying they would not trade him for anyone? lol

I'm just teasing you because actually while I will not put Carson on my preseason 1st or 2nd team All-America list I would indeed pick him over any QB in FCS. He's the best. The issue is these are preseason All-America picks. The goal is to pick who will be an All-American and with how NDSU plays if Carson is able to put up the numbers to be an All-American then he will be a first round pick. He's a better NFL prospect than Joe Flacco was. The only area where he isn't as good as Flacco is arm strength and he isn't below Flacco by much there. It's very close on the arm strength.


CW is head and shoulders above BJ in terms of athletic ability but Brock refused to lose. Mental toughness. Looks like CW has that also.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I was surprised at how good Wentzs #s were. I still don't think you can scream and yell that he factually is a better QB than Huesman though. Huesmans numbers are a little better. Wentzs team won the national title. NDSUs fans are a little over outraged though. He is a 2nd year starter. The previous 3 national titles can't be credited to him.

You have to look past those basic stats. Wentz was better than Jensen and it's not even close. Jensen is a CFL or AFL caliber QB. Wentz is a NFL caliber QB. Wentz would have won those titles as the starter but the NDSU coaches played Jensen since he had a couple years on him. If not for being older Wentz would have been the starter. I saw some practices and if you didn't know who the starter was 2 or 3 years ago you would have guessed it was Wentz. He was bigger, stronger, better athleticism, better arm, and everything else was better. The coaches were very classy and knew that they had the team to win with Jensen. If things had gotten real close and it looked like a game was in jeopardy they could have put Wentz in and built a lead up. He was always better than Jensen.

As for comparing to Huesman. Huesman is basically Brock Jensen. He is a very good college QB who will win, not win as much as Jensen but he has and will win this year, but he is not even close to Wentz. Huesman is athletic but not as athletic as Wentz and in size, arm strength, accuracy, and everywhere else Wentz is superior. Wentz is an elite QB. If he played at EWU or UNH he would have won the Walter Payton Award last year easily. If you put him and Vernon Adams or John Robertson side by side, it would look laughable. Wentz is the real deal. He belongs in the SEC.

But like I said this is projecting who will be an All-American and I can understand why someone would not put Wentz because his system is going to limit his production. He is a lot like Flacco. Flacco would have put up much better numbers in a system like EWU or UNH as well.

[smallcollegefbfan]

CW is head and shoulders above BJ in terms of athletic ability but Brock refused to lose. Mental toughness. Looks like CW has that also.

I was teasing because I remember NDSU fans saying how they loved Jensen. Jensen is lucky that Wentz was not in the same recruiting class because Jensen would have never played. Wentz is the best QB in FCS by a good margin. If I had to rank him among all classes and divisions he is one of the 10 most talented QBs in all of college football. I would argue that had you played with Jensen last year that you might not have won the title. Wentz is the real deal. He is the best player you have ever had while an FCS program. You have never heard me brag about how much of a NFL prospect a player is from your team except I have said good things about Emanuel and a little bit about Turner and Crockett but Wentz and Haeg are better than both of them. Haeg is much better than Turner and Wentz is better than anything you have had since I have been watching you guys.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I was teasing because I remember NDSU fans saying how they loved Jensen. Jensen is lucky that Wentz was not in the same recruiting class because Jensen would have never played. Wentz is the best QB in FCS by a good margin. If I had to rank him among all classes and divisions he is one of the 10 most talented QBs in all of college football. I would argue that had you played with Jensen last year that you might not have won the title. Wentz is the real deal. He is the best player you have ever had while an FCS program. You have never heard me brag about how much of a NFL prospect a player is from your team except I have said good things about Emanuel and a little bit about Turner and Crockett but Wentz and Haeg are better than both of them. Haeg is much better than Turner and Wentz is better than anything you have had since I have been watching you guys.


You may be right with the Turner/Haeg comparison. At first I thought no way could Haeg be better than Billy but the more I have watched him the more I'm impressed. If he has a good year, he will be drafted.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

The NDSU QB was not included on the STATS list and this Bison Blogger seems to take offense at that. He does make some excellent points about playing good under pressure.

http://bisonmedia.areavoices.com/all-american-quarterback/

Izzo isn't a blogger.

[smallcollegefbfan]

You may be right with the Turner/Haeg comparison. At first I thought no way could Haeg be better than Billy but the more I have watched him the more I'm impressed. If he has a good year, he will be drafted.

If the draft were today, just based on last year, Haeg would be a 4th or 5th round pick. Now, I'm talking about NFL folks, not the internet. As you know, the opinions of the NFL teams are what matters and they like Haeg a lot.

[AmsterBison]

Izzo isn't a blogger.

Yeah, Izzo is a Fargo TV sports guy (the best, imo.) He's usually very non-controversial so I'm surprised he had such a strong opinion.

It doesn't bother me that Carson isn't getting much preseason hype. If he continues to improve and stays healthy, recognition will follow.

[BisonFan02]

One thing to keep an eye on here is how Klieman "manages" his key players in comparison to the Bohl era. Key points:

1) Last season, Emanuel saw ALOT more snaps on D where Bohl may have still rotated a lot more...this may have been a depth issue/change, but I think Klieman did everything he could to keep Kyle on the field...which ultimately allowed him to build a stat resume for the Buchanan

2) Crockett was the feature back last year and didn't split nearly as much carries with both Frazier/Morlock. Again...maybe a depth change, but I think Bohl wouldn't have done the same.

I think Carson has the weapons around him this year with Vraa, Urzendowski, and the TE stable...couple that with an OC who has stated that the playbook will be more exotic this year...and I think Wentz's numbers will get a significant bump.

[344Johnson]

Yeah, Izzo is a Fargo TV sports guy (the best, imo.) He's usually very non-controversial so I'm surprised he had such a strong opinion.

It doesn't bother me that Carson isn't getting much preseason hype. If he continues to improve and stays healthy, recognition will follow.

This. I don't know why people let it bug them.

[344Johnson]

One thing to keep an eye on here is how Klieman "manages" his key players in comparison to the Bohl era. Key points:

1) Last season, Emanuel saw ALOT more snaps on D where Bohl may have still rotated a lot more...this may have been a depth issue/change, but I think Klieman did everything he could to keep Kyle on the field...which ultimately allowed him to build a stat resume for the Buchanan

2) Crockett was the feature back last year and didn't split nearly as much carries with both Frazier/Morlock. Again...maybe a depth change, but I think Bohl wouldn't have done the same.

I think Carson has the weapons around him this year with Vraa, Urzendowski, and the TE stable...couple that with an OC who has stated that the playbook will be more exotic this year...and I think Wentz's numbers will get a significant bump.

I'd expect numbers at least similar to last season. I think you are right the numbers will go up. Basically the same offensive group and a defense that will likely give up more points should lead to larger numbers.

[SU DOG]

My apologies for calling Mr. Izzo a blogger. I just thought it an interesting story, and didn't do any research without having a dog in this fight, so to speak. Now, what about this call for Heisman Votes for John Robertson? :)

http://www.vuhoops.com/2015/7/11/8927323/john-robertson-is-a-heisman-candidate-at-least-he-should-be

[smallcollegefbfan]

My apologies for calling Mr. Izzo a blogger. I just thought it an interesting story, and didn't do any research without having a dog in this fight, so to speak. Now, what about this call for Heisman Votes for John Robertson? :)

http://www.vuhoops.com/2015/7/11/8927323/john-robertson-is-a-heisman-candidate-at-least-he-should-be

I love Robertson but he has no shot nor should he get any hype for the Heisman at this point. Realistically there is nobody in FCS who is worthy of Heisman talk for this year right now. If Wentz can put up gaudy numbers he would but that's about it.

[McNeese75]

No dog in this fight but IMO Wentz is a Superman in this division in the program he plays in. xthumbsupx I wish we had a comparable counterpart. xcoolx

[BisonFan02]

No dog in this fight but IMO Wentz is a Superman in this division in the program he plays in. xthumbsupx I wish we had a comparable counterpart. xcoolx

Sandbagger! xlolx

[McNeese75]

Sandbagger! xlolx xlolx Noooo, that was real whining and tears unfortunately :)

[THE HERD]

I love Robertson but he has no shot nor should he get any hype for the Heisman at this point. Realistically there is nobody in FCS who is worthy of Heisman talk for this year right now. If Wentz can put up gaudy numbers he would but that's about it.

I met Robertson last year down in Frisco in our tailgait and could not believe how small he was........nothing but respect for him though as he has put up the stats, but I was definitely surprised at his size. He was an extremely nice well mannered young man and he kept on talking about how impressed he was with the NDSU fan base and how they travel and support the team. He stated how nothing even close to our tailgaiting happens at Villanova. I jokingly told him he should transfer to NDSU and he said "No way you guys have Wentz".......and as a joke I told him we would create a Wildcat package for himxlolx. I hope NDSU gets a crack at Villanova in the playoffs this year as it would be fun to watch Wentz and Robertson duel it out.

[clenz]

Same competition...yes, but totally different offensive philosophies. Fast break spread offense vs conservative power running offense.

ISU's offense design is to hurry up down the field and score whereas NDSU would pound you death with a 8-10 minute drive.

Roberson will have gaudy numbers again this year but like NoDak mentioned, I would take CW over anyone in the FCS right now.
I don't really have a dog in this fight...but...some numbers to look at




Player
G
Comp
Att
%
Yds
Y/A
TD
INT
Sack


Roberson
15
208
359
57.9
3221
9
30
10
22


Wentz
16
228
358
63.7
3111
8.7
25
10
20














Team
G
Rush
Yds
Yd/Rush
TDs
Rec
Yds
Yd/Rec
TDs


Roberson
15
171
1029
6
11
0
0
-
0


Wentz
16
138
642
4.7
6
1
16
16
1
















Total Yds
Tot TD
YPP/Involved







Roberson

4250
41
8.02







Wentz

3753
31
7.57

[344Johnson]

I don't really have a dog in this fight...but...some numbers to look at




Player
G
Comp
Att
%
Yds
Y/A
TD
INT
Sack


Roberson
15
208
359
57.9
3221
9
30
10
22


Wentz
16
228
358
63.7
3111
8.7
25
10
20














Team
G
Rush
Yds
Yd/Rush
TDs
Rec
Yds
Yd/Rec
TDs


Roberson
15
171
1029
6
11
0
0
-
0


Wentz
16
138
642
4.7
6
1
16
16
1
















Total Yds
Tot TD
YPP/Involved







Roberson

4250
41
8.02







Wentz

3753
31
7.57








They'll be coming after you now.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I met Robertson last year down in Frisco in our tailgait and could not believe how small he was........nothing but respect for him though as he has put up the stats, but I was definitely surprised at his size. He was an extremely nice well mannered young man and he kept on talking about how impressed he was with the NDSU fan base and how they travel and support the team. He stated how nothing even close to our tailgaiting happens at Villanova. I jokingly told him he should transfer to NDSU and he said "No way you guys have Wentz".......and as a joke I told him we would create a Wildcat package for himxlolx. I hope NDSU gets a crack at Villanova in the playoffs this year as it would be fun to watch Wentz and Robertson duel it out.

Robertson measured at 6'1 1/2, 215 pounds for NFL scouts in the spring. That is indeed on the smaller side. Wentz measured 6'5, 235 pounds.

[clenz]

As for the "style of play" argument...




NDSU
ISU


SCORING
527
574


Points Per Game
32.9
38.3


Points Off Turnovers
110
123


FIRST DOWNS
343
337


Rushing
176
170


Passing
146
143


Penalty
21
24


RUSHING YARDAGE
3764
3619


Yards gained rushing
3980
3897


Yards lost rushing
216
278


Rushing Attempts
719
635


Average Per Rush
5.2
5.7


Average Per Game
235.2
241.3


TDs Rushing
35
41


PASSING YARDAGE
3152
3335


Comp-Att-Int
231-364-10
215-372-11


Average Per Pass
8.7
9


Average Per Catch
13.6
15.5


Average Per Game
197.0
222.3


TDs Passing
26
32


TOTAL OFFENSE
6916
6954


Total Plays
1083
1007


Average Per Play
6.4
5.9


Average Per Game
432.2
463.6


KICK RETURNS: #-Yards
36-714
53-1072


PUNT RETURNS: #-Yards
26-250
25-119


INT RETURNS: #-Yards
19-242
18-221


KICK RETURN AVERAGE
19.8
20.2


PUNT RETURN AVERAGE
9.6
4.8


INT RETURN AVERAGE
12.7
12.3


FUMBLES-LOST
17-6
22-14


PENALTIES-Yards
97-797
77-661


Average Per Game
49.8
44.1


PUNTS-Yards
60-2689
64-2586


Average Per Punt
44.8
40.4


Net punt average
38.4
35.7


KICKOFFS-Yards
104-6427
104-5873


Average Per Kick
61.8
56.5


Net kick average
41.7
37.6


TIME OF POSSESSION/Game
34:04
31:21:00


3RD-DOWN Conversions
102/211
101/199


3rd-Down Pct
48%
51%


4TH-DOWN Conversions
7/11
11-Aug


4th-Down Pct
64%
73%


SACKS BY-Yards
43-273
44-239


MISC YARDS
0
0


TOUCHDOWNS SCORED
63
76


FIELD GOALS-ATTEMPTS
29-34
14-19


ON-SIDE KICKS
1-1
0-0


RED-ZONE SCORES
(61-69) 88%
(46-65) 79%


RED-ZONE TOUCHDOWNS
(42-69) 61%
(38-62) 61%


PAT-ATTEMPTS
(60-62) 97%
(70-73) 96%



The biggest things I can take away is this:
-Offensively both teams were nearly identical
- ISU was slightly better running the ball but only by about a half yard per carry
- ISU was better through the air at 25 YPG better and while more passes were thrown they averages more YPC
- This is where NDSU's biggest counter to the Roberson yardage comes in:
---ISU actually ran less plays. I know they played one less game but averages per game at 67.7 for NDSU and 67.1 for ISUr. Even if ISU played the same # of games they actually would still run 9 less plays.

[Professor Chaos]

Wentz is a better passer, Roberson is a better runner. I don't have any issue with Roberson getting preseason AA honors over Wentz or with Roberson being 1st team all MVFC over Wentz. However, I think Wentz has a much better toolset to be a difference maker throwing the ball which I would guess is the main reason he'll be much more coveted as an NFL QB prospect.

It's kind of similar to the RG3/Andrew Luck debate as I recall it. One is a dynamic playmaker with his legs and arm whereas one is primarily a passer (and much more polished passer) but is capable of burning teams with his legs when necessary. Now the latter is a top 5 NFL QB and the former is about to get run out of the franchise he was supposed to carry for 10+ years.

[clenz]

Wentz is a better passer, Roberson is a better runner. I don't have any issue with Roberson getting preseason AA honors over Wentz or with Roberson being 1st team all MVFC over Wentz. However, I think Wentz has a much better toolset to be a difference maker throwing the ball which I would guess is the main reason he'll be much more coveted as an NFL QB prospect.

It's kind of similar to the RG3/Andrew Luck debate as I recall it. One is a dynamic playmaker with his legs and arm whereas one is primarily a passer (and much more polished passer) but is capable of burning teams with his legs when necessary. Now the latter is a top 5 NFL QB and the former is about to get run out of the franchise he was supposed to carry for 10+ years.
NFL is a far different beast than talking about NCAA success.

There's a reason RG3 won the Heisman.
There's a reason Tebow was able to win the Heisman and be considered one of the greatest college QBs of all time

While similar to the RG3/Luck situation when looking at pro prospectus it's completely different when looking at AA/AC awards.

[clenz]

They'll be coming after you now.
I know.

I can't help but **** on NDSU...even when I provide only stats and zero opinion/comment

[dewey]

I know.

I can't help but **** on NDSU...even when I provide only stats and zero opinion/comment

Dang it Clenz why do you hate NDSU so muchxlolx


Dewey

[smallcollegefbfan]

NFL is a far different beast than talking about NCAA success.

There's a reason RG3 won the Heisman.
There's a reason Tebow was able to win the Heisman and be considered one of the greatest college QBs of all time

While similar to the RG3/Luck situation when looking at pro prospectus it's completely different when looking at AA/AC awards.

Indeed. The NFL purely goes after the best player and stats do not matter. The big difference is that college awards are all about stats, not who the best player is, and in the NFL size can keep you back while in college it rarely does. Wentz is the better player and better NFL prospect but the others have had better individual stats thus they are getting the nod.

[BisonFan02]

Dang it Clenz why do you hate NDSU so muchxlolx


Dewey

Its because he's black and our band sucks. xlolx

[clenz]

Its because he's black and our band sucks. xlolx
1 of those in true.

[NDSUSR]

NFL is a far different beast than talking about NCAA success.

Only when it suits your perspective.

[344Johnson]

Only when it suits your perspective.

No.

[clenz]

Only when it suits your perspective.
You saying I have a slant with the numbers I posted?

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[IBleedYellow]

Who cares?

Let the players/teams prove it on the field. The beauty of playoffs, boys!

[BisonFan02]

Who cares?

Let the players/teams prove it on the field. The beauty of playoffs, boys!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/4858857/i-m-a-man-i-m-40-o.gif

[BisonFan02]

Back kinda on topic....right now, Carson Wentz is the best QB EVER to suit up for the Bison as far as total package and ability (yes....EVER. I'm well aware of a few notable previous guys that wore the numbers 1, 10, 11 and 16). That being said....ball in hands at the end of the game...need a drive to score for the win...I'm still taking Brock Jensen...ask me again in 6-7 months though. :D

[Daytripper]

Back kinda on topic....right now, Carson Wentz is the best QB EVER to suit up for the Bison as far as total package and ability (yes....EVER. I'm well aware of a few notable previous guys that wore the numbers 1, 10, 11 and 16). That being said....ball in hands at the end of the game...need a drive to score for the win...I'm still taking Brock Jensen...ask me again in 6-7 months though. :D


I will agree with this 100%. BJ just refused to lose. He never really looked like he was doing much, but he did everything right.

[clenz]

Who cares?

Let the players/teams prove it on the field. The beauty of playoffs, boys!
I was simply posting numbers, without comment. I kept reading the "ISU plays fast and NDSU runs plays for 8 mnutes at a time".

Those kinds of statements kind of made sense but made me think a couple things:
1. I don't remember ISUr really playing all that fast
2. Typically 8-10 minute drives are going to happen once or twice per game for NDSU and will consist 13-17 plays. That would mean 26-34 plays. Easy math lets make it 30. That means NDSU only needs to run 30-37 plays the rest of the game. Let's say the average # of possessions per game is something like 6 or 7. That means on the other 5 or 6 possessions you'd only need 5 plays per drive to get to that number. For a team like NDSU that should be pretty damn easy.
3. If ISU is running 70-80 plays per game there are a lot of plays going for short yardage so that's going to hurt yardage for the QB to an extent
4. Roberson had a 2k yard rusher behind him. It's not like Roberson didn't have anyone else on offense to get yards, like the case would seem to say by saying "Wentz hands the ball off to run the clock


Like I said, I don't have a horse in this race. I simply pointed out numbers based on things that made me curious because of the pro-Wentz arguments.

I still have yet to take a side, but I'm sure someone will paint this as me "****ting on NDSU" again.

[gotts]

why must you poop on ndsu chadwick

[NDSUSR]

Remember that one time.... NDSU was playing ISU in Frisco?
NDSU was down with 90 seconds left and Wentz led NDSU to a TD, then ISU got the ball and Roberson threw a pick?

When the **** hits the fan Roberson cannot perform.
Ill even take Wentz over Jensen in a clutch situation.

Intangibles > Stitistics.

[344Johnson]

Remember that one time.... NDSU was playing ISU in Frisco?
NDSU was down with 90 seconds left and Wentz led NDSU to a TD, then ISU got the ball and Roberson threw a pick?

When the **** hits the fan Roberson cannot perform.
Ill even take Wentz over Jensen in a clutch situation.

Intangibles > Stitistics.



Remember that time down in Frisco when Roberson rallied his team from 9 down in the fourth capped off by a 50+ yard TD run only for his defense to give up a TD late?

Dude played a pretty good game against a defense you guys seem to think is God's gift to football.

Comparing the two quarterbacks by using one game is not going to end well. Especially considering they played against two different defenses.

I'll look at how they did against the same conference... You know... The one they both play in.

After looking at those in a PDF, it appears pretty similar. Both dudes did pretty well.

[Rollbird5]

When Roberson got it going halfway thru the season he was a pretty damn good passer too. In the championship game both quarterbacks had great 4th quarter drives. On the last possession not many quarterbacks would be able to go 50ish yards with 33 seconds against one of the best defensive teams in FCS, on the interception it's not like it was a bad pass it was right to the backup TE chest the NDSU guy just muscled it away from him so not sure about all the terrible last drive so Roberson must not be able to be clutch lol He had many great 4th quarter drives over the year to help us win games, both quarterbacks are in the top 3 in FCS along with Villanova's IMO

[dewey]

Remember that time down in Frisco when Roberson rallied his team from 9 down in the fourth capped off by a 50+ yard TD run only for his defense to give up a TD late?

Dude played a pretty good game against a defense you guys seem to think is God's gift to football.

Comparing the two quarterbacks by using one game is not going to end well. Especially considering they played against two different defenses.

I'll look at how they did against the same conference... You know... The one they both play in.

After looking at those in a PDF, it appears pretty similar. Both dudes did pretty well.

100% agree. I like all of the comparisons based on the last drive for each quarterback. So with that logic if Roberson would have lead ISU to a win does that mean he is a better quarterback? IMHO the answer is still no. I am sure ISU wouldn't trade their QB for ours and neither would we. Roberson had a fantastic season and Carson Wentz had a fantastic second half of the season and in the playoffs.

Dewey

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I was merely talking about decision making and composure. You need to be as good from the neck up as the neck down.

[clenz]

Can someone post a video of that play? Nodak makes it sound like he threw into man coverage when he had 4 guys wide open 30 yards down field.

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[NoDak 4 Ever]

Can someone post a video of that play? Nodak makes it sound like he threw into man coverage when he had 4 guys wide open 30 yards down field.

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It's late and I'm tired so I would prefer not to do the work but he had Coprich open pn the sideline in reach of the 1st down marker, would have made it farther than the TE who was stuck where he was. Either way, the run play on the previous snap was a worse decision since it ate up nearly half of the clock left.

[344Johnson]

I was merely talking about decision making and composure. You need to be as good from the neck up as the neck down.

Two touchdowns including a huge one late in the game... Like 90 seconds left.... Made the Bison D look slow. Got the ball back with... 30 seconds or so? Pretty tough to score 3 times in 8 minutes against most teams... Much less in a championship game... With 30 seconds on the clock.

Goodness

[NDSUSR]

Remember that time down in Frisco when Roberson rallied his team from 9 down in the fourth capped off by a 50+ yard TD run only for his defense to give up a TD late?

Dude played a pretty good game against a defense you guys seem to think is God's gift to football.

Comparing the two quarterbacks by using one game is not going to end well. Especially considering they played against two different defenses.

I'll look at how they did against the same conference... You know... The one they both play in.

After looking at those in a PDF, it appears pretty similar. Both dudes did pretty well.

We were talking about who played better in a clutch situation. Try to keep up.

[344Johnson]

We were talking about who played better in a clutch situation. Try to keep up.

Yeah, nothing clutch about two touchdowns in the last half of the 4th quarter.

I believe the theory of clutch performances has been debunked regardless.

[NDSUSR]

I believe the theory of clutch performances has been debunked regardless.

Then explain how NDSU came back and won the Championship last year with 90 seconds on the clock?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Then explain how NDSU came back and won the Championship last year with 90 seconds on the clock?

Because their quarterback, despite not being a FBS transfer, was cooler under pressure than ISU's. You are absolutely blind if you cannot see the difference.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I honestly think he's an NFL player. Not a starter but at least a career backup.

I won't try to measure the intangibles, though. NDSU made the last-minute touchdown because ISU-r decided to blitz almost everyone when they should've been rushing only 4 or 5.

[caribbeanhen]

Because their quarterback, despite not being a FBS transfer, was cooler under pressure than ISU's. You are absolutely blind if you cannot see the difference.

not trying to detract from Wentz but do you think ISU would of even made it close without Robertson. He almost got it done all by himself

[NDSUSR]

not trying to detract from Wentz but do you think ISU would of even made it close without Robertson. He almost got it done all by himself

Without Roberson it would have been a 21 point difference in the score. Roberson is ISUr.

[clenz]

Without Roberson it would have been a 21 point difference in the score. Roberson is ISUr.
He was the only difference between the 2 score UNI win in the UNIDome and 3 score ISU win in the playoffs.

Coprich is nice but Roberson is what made that team go, without question

[344Johnson]

Then explain how NDSU came back and won the Championship last year with 90 seconds on the clock?

So was Steve Walker not clutch? I mean... The dudes career ended with a pick with a perfect season on the line.

Roberson gave his team the lead with less than two minutes to go. What more do you want from the guy? NDSU scoring after that doesn't reflect poorly on him as a player.


Because their quarterback, despite not being a FBS transfer, was cooler under pressure than ISU's. You are absolutely blind if you cannot see the difference.

Was he not under pressure down two scores in the fourth quarter? The only time I don't think he was under pressure was when he was running away for a 50+ yard touchdown.

Kurt Warner throws a TD to take the lead against the Steelers in Super Bowl. Ben takes the Steelers on like a 90 yard drive. Warner gets the ball with pretty limited time. Ends the game with a sack/fumble if I recall.

Now does that make Big Ben better? Big Ben had a dominant defense.. Kurt Warner did not. Both offenses were good. In your world... Because Warner ends the game with a turnover (I think this was the case, can't recall 100%) after his defense let's him down.

I don't see much difference in the either sets of quarterbacks in terms of value. Roberson/Wentz had relatively similar numbers against the same competition. That tells me a lot more than the last 30 seconds of one game.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Seeing the performance on the last drive I have no doubt Carson would have gotten them within FG range.

[NDSUSR]

That tells me a lot more than the last 30 seconds of one game.
Yeah one game. The Championship.
Damn you ae really reaching here. Do you think you are going to change my mind?
Dont waste your time.

[344Johnson]

Yeah one game. The Championship.
Damn you ae really reaching here. Do you think you are going to change my mind?
Dont waste your time.

One game is one game.

Enjoy having confusing thoughts tonight while looking at your Carson Wentz poster on your ceiling

[NDSUSR]

One game is one game.

Enjoy having confusing thoughts tonight while looking at your Carson Wentz poster on your ceiling

How typical of you.

[BisonFan02]

Back kinda on topic....right now, Carson Wentz is the best QB EVER to suit up for the Bison as far as total package and ability (yes....EVER. I'm well aware of a few notable previous guys that wore the numbers 1, 10, 11 and 16). That being said....ball in hands at the end of the game...need a drive to score for the win...I'm still taking Brock Jensen...ask me again in 6-7 months though. :D

Bump......I would take Wentz now....I think. xlolx

[BisonFan02]

I was surprised at how good Wentzs #s were. I still don't think you can scream and yell that he factually is a better QB than Huesman though. Huesmans numbers are a little better. Wentzs team won the national title. NDSUs fans are a little over outraged though. He is a 2nd year starter. The previous 3 national titles can't be credited to him.

The moment Carson became a 1st round NFL talent. xlolx

[chattownmocs]

The moment Carson became a 1st round NFL talent. xlolx

So were Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus russell and all the other giant busts.

[Bisonator]

So were Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus russell and all the other giant busts.
Leaf was a druggy and Russell was a lazy over eater. Carson won't be a bust because of drugs or work ethic I guarantee you that.

[chattownmocs]

Leaf was a druggy and Russell was a lazy over eater. Carson won't be a bust because of drugs or work ethic I guarantee you that.

Wasn't saying he was going to be a bust. But simply being drafted high doesn't make you an all american. Wentz wasn't a preseason all american. Then he missed half the year. Cry me a river.

[Professor Chaos]

So were Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus russell and all the other giant busts.
So were Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Donovan McNabb, Peyton Manning, Steve McNair, Kerry Collins, Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman, Vinny Testaverde, John Elway, Jim Kelly, and Dan Marino.

If Wentz has the career longevity or performance of any of those guys he's worth the pick. Even 1st round QBs only have a 50% success rate so chances either Goff or Wentz will flame out. However, once you get past the 1st round the success rate gets considerably worse.

[BisonFan02]

Wasn't saying he was going to be a bust. But simply being drafted high doesn't make you an all american. Wentz wasn't a preseason all american. Then he missed half the year. Cry me a river.

Wentz > Huesman. GTFO xlolx

[chattownmocs]

Wentz > Huesman. GTFO xlolx

Huesman, all american preseason and postseason. Wentz, neither.

[centennial]

Huesman, all american preseason and postseason. Wentz, neither.

You know some of us have seen Heusman play. FCS accolades are meaningless for the NFL. That's why Brock Jensen plays in the CFL.

[clenz]

Huesman, all american preseason and postseason. Wentz, neither.
Marshaun Coprich got All Conference and All American honors over David Johnson.

So...

[JayJ79]

Marshaun Coprich got All Conference and All American honors over David Johnson.

So...

maybe MC sent out herbal gift baskets to curry votes

[BisonTru]

Wasn't saying he was going to be a bust. But simply being drafted high doesn't make you an all american. Wentz wasn't a preseason all american. Then he missed half the year. Cry me a river.

He's got 26 million guaranteed reasons not to GAF about all american voting. xthumbsupx

[grizband]

Marshaun Coprich got All Conference and All American honors over David Johnson.

So...
Jared Allen didn't win Big Sky defensive player of the year his senior season; same year he won the Buchanan.

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[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Huesman, all american preseason and postseason. Wentz, neither.


Huesman is a very good FCS QB but doesn't compare to Wentz.