NDSU legitimately in the "convo" for the Big 12?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

This is very interesting. Are the writer's thoughts regarding expansion based on what the OU president said? Or just his own ideas?

It mentions adding BYU and/or NDSU as the best move for Big 12 expansion...


http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/100365/ou-president-boren-puts-possible-big-12-expansion-back-in-news

[BisonFan02]

No........BUT....drawing Boise St. away from the MWC changes that conversation. NDSU to the Big 12 in the article is to get internet page clicks and dialogue.

[centennial]

This a very interesting. Are the writer's thoughts regarding expansion based on what the OU president said? Or just his own ideas?

It mentions adding BYU and/or NDSU as the best move for Big 12 expansion...


http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/100365/ou-president-boren-puts-possible-big-12-expansion-back-in-news

NDSU is not in the same league as BYU. BYU has double the enrollment and many times the endowment. NDSU did get into the Big 12 for wrestling but football is far from wrestling. We are not a peer institution to the Big 12, don't have enough of a media market (although Boise proved that a big media market can be tackled). NDSU would need a LOT of state support to even think of making this move(not happening because a lot of UND grads are in the legislature). We would need to increase enrollment to at least double, try to get increase endowment dramatically, a 35k new stadium. Honestly, we are a fit for the Mountain West or MAC but geographically even that is a stretch.

[Southern Bison]

Stadium debate on Bisonville restarting in 3...2...1...

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[BisonFan02]

Stadium debate on Bisonville restarting in 3...2...1...

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xlolx restarting????

[Southern Bison]

xlolx restarting????
I avoid that circle jerk of the "locals" because since I live 1400 miles away, I'm apparently not a true fan.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[frozennorth]

Implausible now, let's see how mbb does in the next 5 years before talking seriously. A couple deep runs would have to happen first

[DFW HOYA]

"If" NDSU was serious about I-A, and that's a big if, it needs to do three things:

1. Join a smaller I-A conference and dominate it.
2. Build a new stadium and sell out nearly every game.
3. Schedule nationally and win bowl games.

This is the blueprint that took TCU, a longtime doormat in the Southwest Conference, from the WAC to Conference USA to the Mountain West to the Big East (for a month, anyway) to the Big 12.

But there's no way Texas is going to sign off on a 19,000 seat stadium in Fargo. None.

[clenz]

"If" NDSU was serious about I-A, and that's a big if, it needs to do three things:

1. Join a smaller I-A conference and dominate it.
2. Build a new stadium and sell out nearly every game.
3. Schedule nationally and win bowl games.

This is the blueprint that took TCU, a longtime doormat in the Southwest Conference, from the WAC to Conference USA to the Mountain West to the Big East (for a month, anyway) to the Big 12.

But there's no way Texas is going to sign off on a 19,000 seat stadium in Fargo. None.
There's no chance Texas signs off on anything Fargo, period

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[centennial]

There's no chance Texas signs off on anything Fargo, period

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We have no chance at the Big 12. No one is saying otherwise.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

I avoid that circle jerk of the "locals" because since I live 1400 miles away, I'm apparently not a true fan.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
I live in Fargo and they treat me the same way.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

NDSU A.D. said, last week or the week before, that NDSU is not interested in moving up at all. NO interest.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

NDSU A.D. said, last week or the week before, that NDSU is not interested in moving up at all. NO interest.

My guess is if the Big 12 comes calling the AD will change his tune just a bit. Obviously, the odds of that happening seem remote at best. But at this point, who the hell really knows. Personally, under the right circumstances I believe Fargo and the general region could and would support big time football. They're already near or on par than couple programs in basketball imo. The Bison are better than TCU.

Texas from all accounts has lost it's power rather quickly. There was an article recently stating how the Longhorn network may go down in history as one of worst channels ever. While they have a ton of money their actual prowess in football and basketball over the last 15-20 years is very good but not exceptional. Overall, I believe UT's inflated view of itself has hurt their athletic program competitively. Perhaps the new cast of characters within the administration can get things rolling again.

[DFW HOYA]

The Bison are better than TCU.

You're kidding yourself on that one. TCU is a legit top-10 team.



Texas from all accounts has lost it's power rather quickly. There was an article recently stating how the Longhorn network may go down in history as one of worst channels ever. While they have a ton of money their actual prowess in football and basketball over the last 15-20 years is very good but not exceptional. Overall, I believe UT's inflated view of itself has hurt their athletic program competitively. Perhaps the new cast of characters within the administration can get things rolling again.

I'm no fan of the Orangebloods but UT (with its friends at Oklahoma) absolutely control the future of the Big 12. If those two schools were to join the Pac-14, the Big 12 suddenly becomes the midwestern version of the AAC.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You're kidding yourself on that one. TCU is a legit top-10 team.



I'm no fan of the Orangebloods but UT (with its friends at Oklahoma) absolutely control the future of the Big 12. If those two schools were to join the Pac-14, the Big 12 suddenly becomes the midwestern version of the AAC.

TCU basketball? Re-read what I said....

I don't think the Pac 12 or anyone else is really looking forward to dealing with Texas right now. In fact, I don't see OU or Texas or the Big 12 breaking up anytime soon. So as it is, they need to make the conference remain viable.

[Lehigh'98]

Why are BYU, Cincinatti or Boise such bad choices if it gets them to 12 and a championship game?

[DFW HOYA]

Didn't see the basketball reference.

BYU isn't a bad choice, but its BYU-TV network and no-Sunday scheduling may be enough for both sides to pass on.

Cincinnati makes an ideal travel partner for WVU but its football program still doesn't draw national respect and plays in a 35,000 seat stadium.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Why are BYU, Cincinatti or Boise such bad choices if it gets them to 12 and a championship game?

Personally, I think Cincinnati is going to end up in the Big 12. They're just finishing up a major overhaul of Nippert Stadium and just announced an $80 million dollar renovation project for 5/3 Arena. The school has a billion dollar plus endowment and a solid academic profile. Plus, they would make WVU happy.

BSU's academics are still mocked by most. The folks in Western MT even snicker at the school. To be fair, the Montana schools are better by most accounts. U of Idaho has a good reputation. With that said, I think Boise State would be a great addition. Their academic profile has improved over the last 10 years. Increased exposure will only help them climb.

BYU has the religious hurdles....

[centennial]

Personally, I think Cincinnati is going to end up in the Big 12. They're just finishing up a major overhaul of Nippert Stadium and just announced an $80 million dollar renovation project for 5/3 Arena. The school has a billion dollar plus endowment and a solid academic profile. Plus, they would make WVU happy.

BSU's academics are still mocked by most. The folks in Western MT even snicker at the school. To be fair, the Montana schools are better by most accounts. U of Idaho has a good reputation. With that said, I think Boise State would be a great addition. Their academic profile has improved over the last 10 years. Increased exposure will only help them climb.

BYU has the religious hurdles....
Some people don't understand how much BYU has a persecution complex. They always think the world is against them, add to that some of them are actual nutjobs. No one wants them in a P5 conference to further their agenda.

[clenz]

It'll be Cinci and Memphis

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[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It'll be Cinci and Memphis

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I think those are the two most likely candidates. Memphis football has generally been pretty bad but things seem to have turned around to some extent. By most accounts the Liberty Bowl is still a pretty nice place to see a game. It would need a facelift but nothing major to make it Big 12 worthy. Obviously Tiger basketball is among better programs historically. Their support is usually excellent and FedEx Forum is top-notch. Kansas would love to have them for hoops. The school also falls within the Big 12 footprint reasonably well.

The biggest negative is academics. Memphis might have a worse reputation than Boise State. The school is not ranked among national universities despite being one.

If the Big 12 does not make a move in the next 24 months things could get real interesting. Maybe a 5 or 6 peat causes NDSU to re-think their options.....

I feel like their should be a Super Fan SNL skit featuring NDSU fans discussing realignment....

[BisonFan02]

I avoid that circle jerk of the "locals" because since I live 1400 miles away, I'm apparently not a true fan.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I know the feeling...............I'm not a "true fan" either I guess.

[NDSUSR]

wow.... Please stop, NDSU is NOT looking to go FBS. This is just getting stupid.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

wow.... Please stop, NDSU is NOT looking to go FBS. This is just getting stupid.

If the President and AD at Oklahoma invite the NDSU President, AD and a couple prominent trustees down to Norman just to "chat" I can promise you the Bison contingent are getting on that plane. I don't see NDSU going FBS anytime soon. However, if a couple key Big 12 figures want to just touch base with NDSU the folks in Fargo HAVE to listen. Even if it's not going anywhere per se....

[frozennorth]

Cincinnati and Memphis are the obvious choices, followed by CSU

Ohio and Arkansas state might be on the radar, particularly the former.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I know the feeling...............I'm not a "true fan" either I guess.


I'm not on BV a lot but I have a hard time believing that other Bison fans have said that.

[Bisonator]

If the President and AD at Oklahoma invite the NDSU President, AD and a couple prominent trustees down to Norman just to "chat" I can promise you the Bison contingent are getting on that plane. I don't see NDSU going FBS anytime soon. However, if a couple key Big 12 figures want to just touch base with NDSU the folks in Fargo HAVE to listen. Even if it's not going anywhere per se....

No question about it. IF that were to happen absolutely NDSU would jump at it as would any school. The fact is that isn't going to happen.

[DFW HOYA]

Cincinnati and Memphis are the obvious choices, followed by CSU

Ohio and Arkansas state might be on the radar, particularly the former.

Maybe UC, but that's it. Memphis isn't very good in football and the Liberty Bowl is a negative. CSU doesn't bring much to the discussion, A-State would be a joke in the press, and Ohio isn't even in discussion for C-USA much less a P5 conference. There are high school facilities in Texas bigger than Ohio's Peden Stadium:


http://www.bowlsubdivision.com/admin/wp-content/gallery/ohio/pedenstadium2.jpg

[clenz]

I don't understand any of the names mentioned here except:

Cinci - it will, happen just a matter of time
Memphis - honestly it's probably second in the club house. The B12 doesn't need to add two top half teams in Cinci and BSU/BYU. They need a bottom team to add to the south with Cinci going to the new North. Basketball would be the driving factor on this.
Boise State - less than 50%
BYU - less than 50%
UCONN - long shot BUT if Cinci gets the 11th spot and UCONN committs to football I could see UCONN getting a look. It's more likely UCONN goes nowhere and even money they drop football and go Big East when compared to the B12 but it *could happen*


You then have a drop off deeper than the grand canyon to Ohio and Arkansas State

You then have a Mariana Trench sized drop off to starting to think about maybe getting the nerve to start having preliminary discussions about having preliminary discussions with NDSU.

[BisonBacker]

I think its funny how Clenz can't help but take the pot shot at NDSU every opportunity he gets. Clenz you have a hard on for knocking NDSU? Man let it go already. We know were not good enough for the might MVC. We know were not worthy of being in any discussion of being FBS. Hell we know were just lucky that were even in the conversation about FCS and that we suck at everything. Good lord you must really have a fear all things NDSU. Is it that bad being a fan of UNI?

[clenz]

The **** is your problem.

I'm sorry pointing out reality on who the Big 12 would look at, and where NDSU stands there, is too much for you to handle and it means I'm hating on, got a hard on for, or whatever else you want to say.

Keep living in your dream land that NDSU is B12 material

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[BisonBacker]

The **** is your problem.

I'm sorry pointing out reality on who the Big 12 would look at, and where NDSU stands there, is too much for you to handle and it means I'm hating on, got a hard on for, or whatever else you want to say.

Keep living in your dream land that NDSU is B12 material

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Were in my post did I say we were big 12 material? Where did any Bison fan say we were big 12 material? Keep up with the hate if that makes you feel any better. Just makes you look petty.

[clenz]

What hate?

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed with someone just ****ting on your chest today or what?

The entire thread was about NDSU and the B12. Why am i not allowed to comment?


Every time i start to like NDSU fans **** like this happens.

You need to calm the **** down

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[dewey]

If the President and AD at Oklahoma invite the NDSU President, AD and a couple prominent trustees down to Norman just to "chat" I can promise you the Bison contingent are getting on that plane. I don't see NDSU going FBS anytime soon. However, if a couple key Big 12 figures want to just touch base with NDSU the folks in Fargo HAVE to listen. Even if it's not going anywhere per se....

I agree that IF the OU/Big 12 folks wanted to talk the NDSU leaders would go but it WILL not happen.

Here are the #'s
per Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_12_Conference
School Enrollment Endowment
Baylor 16,263 $1,153,626,000
Iowa State 34,732 $777,018,000
Kansas 26,968 $1,470,786,000
Kansas State 24,378 $473,987,000
Oklahoma 29,721 $1,493,466,000
Oklahoma State 23,307 $579,421,000
Texas 51,195 $25,425,922,000
TCU 9,142 $1,422,518,000
Texas Tech 35,134 $1,195,363,000
West Virginia 29,466 $533,627,000
NDSU 14,747 (2nd lowest) $126,000 (lowest by a factor of 4)

NDSU enrollment;
https://www.ndsu.edu/admission/about_ndsu/enrollment/

NDSU endowment;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_State_University

The simple fact is that NDSU does not have the money to build a new football stadium, and a large enough market for the Big 12. A new 35-50K stadium would cost somewhere in the $150-250 million dollar range. As others have said there are a LOT of other schools that are more attractive to the Big 12 for numerous reasons.

For the record I am not saying at all that NDSU is a good fit for the Big 12.

If at the end of the day if NDSU stays where it is I am prefectly happy with that.

Dewey

[clenz]

I agree that IF the OU/Big 12 folks wanted to talk the NDSU leaders would go but it WILL not happen.

Here are the #'s
per Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_12_Conference
School Enrollment Endowment
Baylor 16,263 $1,153,626,000
Iowa State 34,732 $777,018,000
Kansas 26,968 $1,470,786,000
Kansas State 24,378 $473,987,000
Oklahoma 29,721 $1,493,466,000
Oklahoma State 23,307 $579,421,000
Texas 51,195 $25,425,922,000
TCU 9,142 $1,422,518,000
Texas Tech 35,134 $1,195,363,000
West Virginia 29,466 $533,627,000
NDSU 14,747 (2nd lowest) $126,000 (lowest by a factor of 4)

NDSU enrollment;
https://www.ndsu.edu/admission/about_ndsu/enrollment/

NDSU endowment;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_State_University

The simple fact is that NDSU does not have the money to build a new football stadium, and a large enough market for the Big 12. A new 35-50K stadium would cost somewhere in the $150-250 million dollar range. As others have said there are a LOT of other schools that are more attractive to the Big 12 for numerous reasons.

For the record I am not saying at all that NDSU is a good fit for the Big 12.

If at the end of the day if NDSU stays where it is I am prefectly happy with that.

Dewey
STOP WITH YOUR NDSU HATE...JESUS, WHY DO YOU HATE NDSU SO MUCH?

[dewey]

STOP WITH YOUR NDSU HATE...JESUS, WHY DO YOU HATE NDSU SO MUCH?

That made me LOL at work!

It is not my hate...it is the numbers hate.

Dewey

[clenz]

I really wish I could rep you right now.

[Professor Chaos]

Anyone that thinks they know what they're talking about when it comes to conference realignment is 90% full of ****... the author of this blog is a case in point.

EDIT: Also, to be fair, he did qualify his ludicrous statement with the assumption that Fargo will double in size in the next 20 years (meaning the metro area would get to ~400K). Another pretty ridiculous statement given the oil boom is out in western ND and that is already slowing significantly with oil prices where they are but it makes it a little less asinine to think NDSU would be attractive to the Big 12.

[BisonBacker]

What hate?

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed with someone just ****ting on your chest today or what?

The entire thread was about NDSU and the B12. Why am i not allowed to comment?


Every time i start to like NDSU fans **** like this happens.

You need to calm the **** down

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

The article was not written by an NDSU fan/alum. You **** on NDSU any opportunity any sportswriter makes a comment about NDSU. NDSU fans know full well where we are and where we fit in. Every school has a few knuckleheads who think they should be elsewhere and if you don't think UNI does you are kidding yourself. You acted like this was an NDSU fan and all NDSU fans think like this. Clearly we don't. But that doesn't stop you. Look in the mirror before saying you need to calm the **** down.

[clenz]

The article was not written by an NDSU fan/alum. You **** on NDSU any opportunity any sportswriter makes a comment about NDSU. NDSU fans know full well where we are and where we fit in. Every school has a few knuckleheads who think they should be elsewhere and if you don't think UNI does you are kidding yourself. You acted like this was an NDSU fan and all NDSU fans think like this. Clearly we don't. But that doesn't stop you. Look in the mirror before saying you need to calm the **** down.
When was the last time I actually **** on NDSU, ESPECIALLY in this thread to warrant this reaction from you? Be completely unbiased with it as well. I will quote every post I made before you came into this thread.

#1

There's no chance Texas signs off on anything Fargo, period

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I don't mention anything related to NDSU, other than the fact NDSU in in Fargo. I stated Texas won't sign off on Fargo. I wouldn't really matter who was there, save a very small few exceptions.

Explain how this is ****ting on, and hating NDSU.



#2

It'll be Cinci and Memphis

Sent from my SCH-I545 using TapatalkI don't even mention anything even remotely close to having a chance to be construed as anti-NDSU



#3

I don't understand any of the names mentioned here except:

Cinci - it will, happen just a matter of time
Memphis - honestly it's probably second in the club house. The B12 doesn't need to add two top half teams in Cinci and BSU/BYU. They need a bottom team to add to the south with Cinci going to the new North. Basketball would be the driving factor on this.
Boise State - less than 50%
BYU - less than 50%
UCONN - long shot BUT if Cinci gets the 11th spot and UCONN committs to football I could see UCONN getting a look. It's more likely UCONN goes nowhere and even money they drop football and go Big East when compared to the B12 but it *could happen*


You then have a drop off deeper than the grand canyon to Ohio and Arkansas State

You then have a Mariana Trench sized drop off to starting to think about maybe getting the nerve to start having preliminary discussions about having preliminary discussions with NDSU.


Nothing is "hating" or "****ting" on NDSU here. That's simple reality. I'm sorry that you are, apparently, greatly offended by it

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Is someone displeased at getting their posts critiqued? Hm.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think everyone can agree that if members of the Big XII were to call the NDSU AD's office, they would pick up. So would Lehigh, for that matter, and somewhere upwards of 90% of the schools in FCS. (Not sure if Harvard would take that call.)

How likely is it, though that the Big XII are going to make that phone call? Pretty remote.

The article is speculative, and the article doesn't make any bones about the fact that it's speculative. It isn't a signal that NDSU is headed to the Big XII any time soon.

[BisonBacker]

When was the last time I actually **** on NDSU, ESPECIALLY in this thread to warrant this reaction from you? Be completely unbiased with it as well. I will quote every post I made before you came into this thread.

#1

I don't mention anything related to NDSU, other than the fact NDSU in in Fargo. I stated Texas won't sign off on Fargo. I wouldn't really matter who was there, save a very small few exceptions.

Explain how this is ****ting on, and hating NDSU.



#2
I don't even mention anything even remotely close to having a chance to be construed as anti-NDSU



#3



Nothing is "hating" or "****ting" on NDSU here. That's simple reality. I'm sorry that you are, apparently, greatly offended by it

Not offended at all I think it's quite funny. I'm not going to waste my time going back and look at old threads and posts you've made but if you don't think you've crapped all over NDSU and NDSU Fans by the comments you have made you are delusional. Everytime I see a sports writer or blogger comment and its brought up on this forum I fully expect a negative overtone in your comments. I pointed out to you that the article wasn't written by and NDSU employee, fan or alumni and yet you make it sound like all NDSU fans are hell bent on NDSU being the best thing since sliced bread. Like I said before most NDSU fans are rational in their thinking and realize NDSU isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I will say this though. If Bismarck and the state legislature wasn't loaded with lawyers (read UND Alumni) and the state wanted to get behind NDSU for a potential push to move up you'd be shocked at how quick that could happen. ND is flush with oil money and it's (the oil money) not going to disappear anytime soon but then again that doesn't mean NDSU will get any of it. No way will they let NDSU get that far ahead of their beloved und. Regardless my point in responding to you was you take the pot shots at NDSU as if the article was written by and NDSU alum/fan/employee. You do this all the time. If I had a nickel for everytime you crapped on NDSU to the MVC I'd be retired. xlolx But we all know NDSU isn't good enough to even be in consideration. That would upset the power balance in the MVC just like it has in the MVFC. I'm sure you wish we never moved up to DI FCS. Carry on. Oh and no worries about asking permission to post in the other thread or this one but thanks for asking just remember I'm a lowly NDSU fan :D

[clenz]

You really are a miserable ****, aren't you?

Enjoy the 4 weeks of summer you get up there. The weather is too nice to be a bag full of piss.

[BisonBacker]

You really are a miserable ****, aren't you?

Enjoy the 4 weeks of summer you get up there. The weather is too nice to be a bag full of piss.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPn0KFlbqX8

[BisonBacker]

Let out the hate Clenz you'll feel better.

[dbackjon]

NO.

NO.

And NO.

[Lehigh'98]

This is so much more fun than the usual MVFC ass slapping circle jerk we usually get.

[centennial]

This is so much more fun than the usual MVFC ass slapping circle jerk we usually get.
Is MVFC the SEC of the FCS?

[dewey]

a bag full of piss.

I have now expanded my vocabulary for insulting others...that was good by the way. No sarcasm.

Dewey

[DFW HOYA]

I think everyone can agree that if members of the Big XII were to call the NDSU AD's office, they would pick up. So would Lehigh, for that matter, and somewhere upwards of 90% of the schools in FCS. (Not sure if Harvard would take that call.)


Would Joe Sterrett really take that call? Not sure he would.

Remember, the Big 10 gave Maryland less than 24 hours to make a decision.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/big-ten-big-mistake/2012/11/21/75844dca-335e-11e2-bb9b-288a310849ee_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/terrapins-insider/wp/2012/11/21/tom-mcmillen-rails-on-decision-making-process-confidentiality-agreement-in-washington-post-op-ed/)

[AmsterBison]

It would depend on the conversation.

Big12 AD: <sneezes>
Other Big12 AD: Did you say NDSU?
BIg12 AD: No, I sneezed.
Other Big12 AD: Ah. I thought you said NDSU.

[Lehigh'98]

Is MVFC the SEC of the FCS?

Only in conference d*ck measuring contest kind of way....... You guys actually win on the field as well. Go Buckeyes!!

[NDSUSR]

What hate?

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed with someone just ****ting on your chest today or what?

The entire thread was about NDSU and the B12. Why am i not allowed to comment?


Every time i start to like NDSU fans **** like this happens.

You need to calm the **** down

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Everyone has a right to their opinions. Some people dont like it. Meh. I still think your ok clenz.

[TransAmBison]

It would depend on the conversation.

Big12 AD: <sneezes>
Other Big12 AD: Did you say NDSU?
BIg12 AD: No, I sneezed.
Other Big12 AD: Ah. I thought you said NDSU.That's some good stuff right there...I think you might have figured it out.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

This is blowing up on the AAC board and gaining traction on Temple's site. The general feeling is that Cincinnati is and will be the primary choice. There's a lot of names being thrown around for the second team.

It's likely that UConn, and yes Temple, will remain stuck....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is blowing up on the AAC board and gaining traction on Temple's site. The general feeling is that Cincinnati is and will be the primary choice. There's a lot of names being thrown around for the second team.

It's likely that UConn, and yes Temple, will remain stuck....

I find it funny that it would be this article that causes the discussion, because it's essentially an article that floats every possibility that people have been discussing publicly for the last seven years, including such highly unlikely outcomes as Nebraska rejoining the Big XII and SMU joining the SWC, I mean the Big XII. I mean, c'mon, even the author admits BYU rumors have been around for years and the Big XII possibly considering Cincy or Memphis ain't exactly news, either.

[Model Citizen]

Minnesota Lite.

[344Johnson]

I'd like to see SMU get back with their old rivals. Let's get Houston back in there too. Bam. Big 12.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

[QUOTE=clenz;2227574]You really are a miserable ****, aren't you?


Bisonbacker is a good guy. He's a straight shooter and one of the few I have met from AGS.

A lot of truth in what he said. I've posted comments to you in years past about the same issue.

I have no issue if you dislike NDSU or the fans but be prepared to get some heat when you post your opinion, which a lot times takes backhanded shots at NDSU.

Carry on

[IBleedYellow]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/lapsedlawyer/popcorn.gif

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I just noticed that in 1977 NDSU fell one game short of playing Lehigh in the D2 Title game. In 2000 they lost to Delta State in the semi's which prevented them from playing Bloomsburg in the title game. I know the starting QB, Eric Miller, for the Huskies that year. It's crazy to think that just 15 years later the Bison name shows up on this list, even just for chits and giggles.....

[dewey]

I just noticed that in 1977 NDSU fell one game short of playing Lehigh in the D2 Title game. In 2000 they lost to Delta State in the semi's which prevented them from playing Bloomsburg in the title game. I know the starting QB, Eric Miller, for the Huskies that year. It's crazy to think that just 15 years later the Bison name shows up on this list, even just for chits and giggles.....

That freaking 2000 team for NDSU was pretty darn good. They were down to their 3rd string quarterback for the Delta State game and there was a lot of controversy about the game being at Delta State. DSU won the game and rolled in the title game if I remember correctly.

Dewey

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

That freaking 2000 team for NDSU was pretty darn good. They were down to their 3rd string quarterback for the Delta State game and there was a lot of controversy about the game being at Delta State. DSU won the game and rolled in the title game if I remember correctly.

Dewey

Delta State beat Bloomsburg 63-34 in the title game. The Huskies defense struggled throughout the playoffs but they ran a wide-open offense led by Miller. That was the last PSAC team to reach the finals.

I just went through most of the playoff brackets and was surprised that NDSU did fade away a bit starting in the mid 90's. That 2000 Bison team was really their last great chance at a title during their final 10 or so years in D2. UND definitely stepped up their game. I remember watching those late 90's to mid 00's title games. I started to tune out during the GVSU run...

[IBleedYellow]

Delta State beat Bloomsburg 63-34 in the title game. The Huskies defense struggled throughout the playoffs but they ran a wide-open offense led by Miller. That was the last PSAC team to reach the finals.

I just went through most of the playoff brackets and was surprised that NDSU did fade away a bit starting in the mid 90's. That 2000 Bison team was really their last great chance at a title during their final 10 or so years in D2. UND definitely stepped up their game. I remember watching those late 90's to mid 00's title games. I started to tune out during the GVSU run...

The 90s are the glory days of UND football and when NDSU started to fade for about 12 years.

Yet we still only have had 3 losing seasons since '64.

[dewey]

Delta State beat Bloomsburg 63-34 in the title game. The Huskies defense struggled throughout the playoffs but they ran a wide-open offense led by Miller. That was the last PSAC team to reach the finals.

I just went through most of the playoff brackets and was surprised that NDSU did fade away a bit starting in the mid 90's. That 2000 Bison team was really their last great chance at a title during their final 10 or so years in D2. UND definitely stepped up their game. I remember watching those late 90's to mid 00's title games. I started to tune out during the GVSU run...

Before the 2000 NDSU team the only team before that had a great chance was the 1993 team. That team started the season as preseason top 5 (maybe #1) behind All American quarterback Arden Beachy in the inagural season at the Fargodome. Unfortunately Beachy tore his knee up in the first game against fellow top 5 team Pittsburgh State. NDSU rolled in that game to the tune of 35-16 but dropped 3 more games in NCC play to MSU-Mankato (28-27), SDSU (42-30) and the Whioux (22-21). The common belief is that is Beachy had been healthy NDSU could have been undefeated and won another National Championship. However injuries happen. I still see Beachy at some of the games and I think he is a doctor in his hometown in North Central Minnesota.

Dewey

[344Johnson]

The 90s are the glory days of UND football and when NDSU started to fade for about 12 years.

Yet we still only have had 3 losing seasons since '64.

Funny enough, the glory days of UND football include a 30 point loss at home... In the playoffs.. Against a team they beat by 14 a couple weeks before

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

NDSU wrestling is part of the Big 12 now. OK State will be the class of the conference but it will make NDSU better. Looking forward to those teams coming to Fargo.

[1984]

Not offended at all I think it's quite funny. I'm not going to waste my time going back and look at old threads and posts you've made but if you don't think you've crapped all over NDSU and NDSU Fans by the comments you have made you are delusional. Everytime I see a sports writer or blogger comment and its brought up on this forum I fully expect a negative overtone in your comments. I pointed out to you that the article wasn't written by and NDSU employee, fan or alumni and yet you make it sound like all NDSU fans are hell bent on NDSU being the best thing since sliced bread. Like I said before most NDSU fans are rational in their thinking and realize NDSU isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I will say this though. If Bismarck and the state legislature wasn't loaded with lawyers (read UND Alumni) and the state wanted to get behind NDSU for a potential push to move up you'd be shocked at how quick that could happen. ND is flush with oil money and it's (the oil money) not going to disappear anytime soon but then again that doesn't mean NDSU will get any of it. No way will they let NDSU get that far ahead of their beloved und. Regardless my point in responding to you was you take the pot shots at NDSU as if the article was written by and NDSU alum/fan/employee. You do this all the time. If I had a nickel for everytime you crapped on NDSU to the MVC I'd be retired. xlolx But we all know NDSU isn't good enough to even be in consideration. That would upset the power balance in the MVC just like it has in the MVFC. I'm sure you wish we never moved up to DI FCS. Carry on. Oh and no worries about asking permission to post in the other thread or this one but thanks for asking just remember I'm a lowly NDSU fan :D

If NDSU had the backing of the legislature it would be at 18-19 thousand students now, but face it a huge portion of the legislature are UND grads(law school) there is no way they are ever going to allow NDSU to become significantly larger than UND it just wont happen. They have been pumping a significantly higher amount of money per student to UND for about 100 years and will continue to do so.

[344Johnson]

If NDSU had the backing of the legislature it would be at 18-19 thousand students now, but face it a huge portion of the legislature are UND grads(law school) there is no way they are ever going to allow NDSU to become significantly larger than UND it just wont happen. They have been pumping a significantly higher amount of money per student to UND for about 100 years and will continue to do so.

Lol dude this university would be a mess at 19 thousand. Campus is a disaster. Getting into NDSU is basically a guarantee. In fact, when I got in, I believe it was a ND rule that if you graduated in North Dakota and took your core classes, NDSU/UND had to let us in.

Would you draw up where these additional 5 thousand students are going to live? Or have class?

I don't get into the funding disparity. It is dumb but it is what it is.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lol dude this university would be a mess at 19 thousand. Campus is a disaster. Getting into NDSU is basically a guarantee. In fact, when I got in, I believe it was a ND rule that if you graduated in North Dakota and took your core classes, NDSU/UND had to let us in.

Would you draw up where these additional 5 thousand students are going to live? Or have class?

I don't get into the funding disparity. It is dumb but it is what it is.

That "rule" exists in most states. If you graduate from a public PA high school you are guaranteed admittance to one of the Penn State satellite campuses. Very few PA kids go to main campus for their freshman year as it is anyway, less than 20%. It's bit of a joke if you think about. Granted, a lot of those kids drop out anyway....

[344Johnson]

That "rule" exists in most states. If you graduate from a public PA high school you are guaranteed admittance to one of the Penn State satellite campuses. Very few PA kids go to main campus for their freshman year as it is anyway, less than 20%. It's bit of a joke if you think about. Granted, a lot of those kids drop out anyway....

That's interesting. Thanks for that info. Regardless, the acceptance rate at the North Dakota schools is really really really high. I believe NDSU pushed hard for years to get our numbers up. And I think that the way things are around campus, little room right now to grow.

[clenz]

That's interesting. Thanks for that info. Regardless, the acceptance rate at the North Dakota schools is really really really high. I believe NDSU pushed hard for years to get our numbers up. And I think that the way things are around campus, little room right now to grow.

I've never heard of that rule.

I know NDSU is pushing 90% acceptance.

UNI has done some the same the last couple years. Acceptance at UNI has gone from about 74-75% to about 80-83%. The state's constant fear mongering between about 08 and 2012 about UNI's athletic budget had a relatively large impact on enrollment so to make up for that more students have been accepted. UNI's acceptance rate is still pretty hard to get a true read on - Princeton Review still lists it in the 50s but USNews is at like 83. I think the "real number" is still about 75% though

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

That's interesting. Thanks for that info. Regardless, the acceptance rate at the North Dakota schools is really really really high. I believe NDSU pushed hard for years to get our numbers up. And I think that the way things are around campus, little room right now to grow.

Both schools have very solid academic reputations. Frozenorth was helpful in providing me with info on UND when I was visiting/checking out their grad program. I was extremely impressed with UND's campus and facilities when I visited in 2011. In fact, it's one of the nicer campuses I've been to. Likewise, NDSU came across as a quality school in a greatly underrated city. I think ND's close ties to MN might cause a little bit of an inferiority complex due to U of Minnesota's and, in general, the Big 10's academic reputation. UND and NDSU are on par with most of the Big 12 schools. Likewise with Montana and Montana State. With that said, UND does have a little better rep than NDSU.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I've never heard of that rule.

I know NDSU is pushing 90% acceptance.

UNI has done some he same the last couple years. Acceptance at UNI has gone from about 74-75% to about 80-83%. The state's constant fear mongering about UNI's athletic budget had a relatively large impact on enrollment so to make up for that more students have been accepted. UNI's acceptance rate is still pretty hard to get a true read on - Princeton Review still lists it in the 50s but USNews is at like 83. I think the "real number" is still about 75% though

You can go to a PSU satellite campus for your degree and it will simply say The Pennsylvania State University. The whole PSU satellite campus deal has been a running joke in the state for years. Many people don't have a clue how it works. PSU is the ultimate safety school for PA residents....

[AmsterBison]

I've never heard of that rule.

I know NDSU is pushing 90% acceptance.

UNI has done some the same the last couple years. Acceptance at UNI has gone from about 74-75% to about 80-83%. The state's constant fear mongering between about 08 and 2012 about UNI's athletic budget had a relatively large impact on enrollment so to make up for that more students have been accepted. UNI's acceptance rate is still pretty hard to get a true read on - Princeton Review still lists it in the 50s but USNews is at like 83. I think the "real number" is still about 75% though

Acceptance rate is a pretty asinine way to judge a school. "Let's see, this school must be better because look how many students they refuse to educate."

Anyway, according to the latest data I could find easily (2013), NDSU's acceptance rate was 84% compared to UNI's 83%... but the average ACT score of the incoming class is two points higher at NDSU.

North Dakota is a very populist state. The thinking is that higher ed should be available to those that want it, as long as standards for the degree aren't diluted. This means that many kids don't make it, but many kids who wouldn't have been admitted otherwise do get their degree.

Heck, NDSU had 12 National Merit Scholars enroll this year... I'm not even sure North Dakota produces that many. UNI had zero. UND had 2.

[344Johnson]

Acceptance rate is a pretty asinine way to judge a school. "Let's see, this school must be better because look how many students they refuse to educate."

Anyway, according to the latest data I could find easily (2013), NDSU's acceptance rate was 84% compared to UNI's 83%... but the average ACT score of the incoming class is two points higher at NDSU.

North Dakota is a very populist state. The thinking is that higher ed should be available to those that want it, as long as standards for the degree aren't diluted. This means that many kids don't make it, but many kids who wouldn't have been admitted otherwise do get their degree.

Certainly helps to have the kids who come here wanting pharmacy degrees and engineering for the ACT I would think.

[clenz]

Certainly helps to have the kids who come here wanting pharmacy degrees and e but not by muchngineering for the ACT I would think.

Big difference there between a school that has 95% education and accounting majors (yes, 95% is an exaggeration but you get the idea) compared to engineering and pharm majors. Average ACT scores, of all students, is likely between 22-24 at both schools.


I better stop. I don't want to "**** on NDSU" but just having a discussion about them, regardless what I'm saying

As proof acceptance rates are pretty dumb way to compare schools though - Iowa State is 85.6, Iowa is 80.7, Kansas 90, Kansas State 98.9, Texas 44

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Big difference there between a school that has 95% education and accounting majors (yes, 95% is an exaggeration but you get the idea) compared to engineering and pharm majors. Average ACT scores, of all students, is likely between 22-24 at both schools.


I better stop. I don't want to "**** on NDSU" but just having a discussion about them, regardless what I'm saying

As proof acceptance rates are pretty dumb way to compare schools though - Iowa State is 85.6, Iowa is 80.7, Kansas 90, Kansas State 98.9, Texas 44

Those rates are crazy. I did some research on Kansas State and opted to stay away. For what it's worth, Manhattan is suppose to be pretty cool by Kansas standards. Better than Lawrence....

Temple and Pittsburgh have acceptance rates of 63% and 54% respectively as "second tier" state schools.

[SDFS]

If NDSU had the backing of the legislature it would be at 18-19 thousand students now, but face it a huge portion of the legislature are UND grads(law school) there is no way they are ever going to allow NDSU to become significantly larger than UND it just wont happen. They have been pumping a significantly higher amount of money per student to UND for about 100 years and will continue to do so.

North Dakota is a rural state - it has made NDSU the land grant school. Giving the school access to millions of $$$ in research and other benefits annually that no other school in state can access and you think the school is being punished or held back!?!?!

[clenz]

Those rates are crazy. I did some research on Kansas State and opted to stay away. For what it's worth, Manhattan is suppose to be pretty cool by Kansas standards. Better than Lawrence....

Temple and Pittsburgh have acceptance rates of 63% and 54% respectively as "second tier" state schools.

Funny thing is Iowa and Iowa State are pretty crazy high as well - yet when it comes to engineering, veterinary, and ag schools Iowa State near the top of the nation in all of them. Iowa has a very well respect law and medical school. I don't know if I'd use world class with the U of I but it's pretty damn close.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Funny thing is Iowa and Iowa State are pretty crazy high as well - yet when it comes to engineering, veterinary, and ag schools Iowa State near the top of the nation in all of them. Iowa has a very well respect law and medical school. I don't know if I'd use world class with the U of I but it's pretty damn close.

The Big 10 is led by Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan. The rest of the schools in the conference, while overall very good, are inflated a bit by politics imo. I'd give my left nut to get a MBA from Minnesota.

There's no doubt imo that NDSU is on par with the Big 12 academically. The school's endowment will increase as the state continues to grow. The enrollment numbers are fine but the school needs to concentrate on developing their graduate programs. When I was tailgating at NDSU I talked to a couple Bison alums about the sub-par graduate school. This is where UND excels.

I look at Fargo as an asset. It's the perfect type of city to host a growing university. I like Grand Forks too but it's not Fargo. The Fargo-Moorhead region feels like one of the many smaller Northeastern metro areas.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The Big 10 is led by Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan. The rest of the schools in the conference, while overall very good, are inflated a bit by politics imo. I'd give my left nut to get a MBA from Minnesota.

There's no doubt imo that NDSU is on par with the Big 12 academically. The school's endowment will increase as the state continues to grow. The enrollment numbers are fine but the school needs to concentrate on developing their graduate programs. When I was tailgating at NDSU I talked to a couple Bison alums about the sub-par graduate school. This is where UND excels.

I look at Fargo as an asset. It's the perfect type of city to host a growing university. I like Grand Forks too but it's not Fargo. The Fargo-Moorhead region feels like one of the many smaller Northeastern metro areas.


Good post.

[AmsterBison]

There's no doubt imo that NDSU is on par with the Big 12 academically. The school's endowment will increase as the state continues to grow. The enrollment numbers are fine but the school needs to concentrate on developing their graduate programs. When I was tailgating at NDSU I talked to a couple Bison alums about the sub-par graduate school. This is where UND excels.

I wouldn't go that far. NDSU is more of a STEAM school (like STEM with the "A" standing for Ag) and NDSU excels in those disciplines. It shows in the huge disparity in the amount of research / number of patents issued.

When it comes to the non-STEM stuff, UND has a huge lead.

[1984]

[QUOTE=344Johnson;2228284]Lol dude this university would be a mess at 19 thousand. Campus is a disaster. Getting into NDSU is basically a guarantee. In fact, when I got in, I believe it was a ND rule that if you graduated in North Dakota and took your core classes, NDSU/UND had to let us in.

Would you draw up where these additional 5 thousand students are going to live? Or have class?

Automatic admission was the rule in North Dakota when I attended school there also. It is no longer the rule and has been so for a number of years. If funded by the legislature at the same rate as UND over the years NDSU would have the capacity for additional students.

[344Johnson]

[QUOTE=344Johnson;2228284]Lol dude this university would be a mess at 19 thousand. Campus is a disaster. Getting into NDSU is basically a guarantee. In fact, when I got in, I believe it was a ND rule that if you graduated in North Dakota and took your core classes, NDSU/UND had to let us in.

Would you draw up where these additional 5 thousand students are going to live? Or have class?

Automatic admission was the rule in North Dakota when I attended school there also. It is no longer the rule and has been so for a number of years. If funded by the legislature at the same rate as UND over the years NDSU would have the capacity for additional students.

Where are you putting them? Where are we going to put the new buildings required?

[Nickels]

Lol dude this university would be a mess at 19 thousand. Campus is a disaster. Getting into NDSU is basically a guarantee. In fact, when I got in, I believe it was a ND rule that if you graduated in North Dakota and took your core classes, NDSU/UND had to let us in.

Would you draw up where these additional 5 thousand students are going to live? Or have class?

I don't get into the funding disparity. It is dumb but it is what it is.
You'd be surprised how quickly you can make room for 5k more. SHSU went from 14,371 in 2004 to 19,719 last year.

[clenz]

You'd be surprised how quickly you can make room for 5k more. SHSU went from 14,371 in 2004 to 19,719 last year.
If you have room for it that's great. UNI doesn't have that room. I don't think NDSU does either

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Nickels]

If you have room for it that's great. UNI doesn't have that room. I don't think NDSU does either

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Everyone has room. You tear down an old building then build a bigger one. Turn a surface lot into a parking garage then use another surface lot and build on it. Put a subcampus in a nearby area. The possibilities are endless.

[clenz]

Everyone has room. You tear down an old building then build a bigger one. Turn a surface lot into a parking garage then use another surface lot and build on it. Put a subcampus in a nearby area. The possibilities are endless.
In a dream land, yes

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[AmsterBison]

Everyone has room. You tear down an old building then build a bigger one. Turn a surface lot into a parking garage then use another surface lot and build on it. Put a subcampus in a nearby area. The possibilities are endless.

The subcampus is how NDSU is going. The state wouldn't build anything so they started a downtown campus for the College of Business and the College of Visual Arts using donated buildings. I'm not a big fan of splitting up the campus but there really was no choice.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The subcampus is how NDSU is going. The state wouldn't build anything so they started a downtown campus for the College of Business and the College of Visual Arts using donated buildings. I'm not a big fan of splitting up the campus but there really was no choice.

Yep, NDSU is bound by the airport to the north and a lot of residential area to the south and east. They own a ton of land to the west but that is all used for the ag school.

UNI looked like there was quite a bit of land to the west? It's whatever direction faces away from the door to the UNIdome

[Nickels]

The subcampus is how NDSU is going. The state wouldn't build anything so they started a downtown campus for the College of Business and the College of Visual Arts using donated buildings. I'm not a big fan of splitting up the campus but there really was no choice.I don't like split campuses either but if means growth vs stagnation then I'm all for expanding off campus.

We have a campus 40 miles south in The Woodlands. SHSU also has an ag complex, planetarium, an observatory, body farm, and golf course off campus too. Ofcourse some of the off campus structures have to be off campus (no one wants a body farm on campus).

[Nickels]

Yep, NDSU is bound by the airport to the north and a lot of residential area to the south and east. They own a ton of land to the west but that is all used for the ag school.

UNI looked like there was quite a bit of land to the west? It's whatever direction faces away from the door to the UNIdome
Simple then. Move ag school to bigger off campus area or buy residential properties to the south or east. That's not exactly unaccomplishable or dreamlandesque.

[clenz]

Yep, NDSU is bound by the airport to the north and a lot of residential area to the south and east. They own a ton of land to the west but that is all used for the ag school.

UNI looked like there was quite a bit of land to the west? It's whatever direction faces away from the door to the UNIdome
There's a lot of open area, but it's used for other things and not available to be developed...plus it's a potential tens of millions of dollars in a sale to CFHS.

UNI has room to fit another 3k or so right now. To go above that would go over 15k. There's no need for that

When I get a second I'll do an aerial of the area

[clenz]

This is a map of UNI's campus. It does sit on the SW edge of Cedar Falls, however, it is 100% land locked by residential to the north, south, and east.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20903&stc=1

Here's an areal showing the same exact view
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20904&stc=1


The room you saw to the west of the dome is UNI owned, however, it's not like it's not being used.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20905&stc=1


That area is used for parking overflow for football, basketball, state high school football, etc... This photo shows the area you're talking about
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20906&stc=1

What UNI owns on the south side of the road ends at the smaller parking lot. That apartment complex is one of the most sought after complex by college kids There's something like 750-1000 students that live there (I don't know the exact number, but my wife lived there a year and based on the building she was in 750 would be the lowest number of people living there, but I can't see more than 1k). To the west of that apartment complex is a small extension of the a power plant. On the north side of the road, directly off the parking lots to the west and north, is used as practice fields and intramural sports. I'm not exactly sure what the little building and towers is between that area and the 4 soccer/rugby fields on the far west side of the map. That area is, I believe, set to be redone to bring the soccer team back towards campus, rather than renting the Cedar Valley Soccer Complex. It would also allow those fields to be redone to allow the rugby teams to have a nicer home to play - and the womens rugby coach is a huge name in the rugby world around the upper-midwest.

The reality is, those buildings would also be so far from the rest of campus there would be no way you could take a class on main campus area and get to a class in the next time block in that area. It's not just building spaces for students to live - classroom buildings would need to be built. That area simply doesn't have enough space to properly build that and integrate it into the campus.

That area of land is also a key part of a potential 30ish million dollar sale. Cedar Falls High School DESPERATELY needs a new high school. The building they are in is not equipped to handle the number of students now in the school (~1200 and growing). I lived 4 blocks from CF for 7 years when I was in CF, and it's in a complete residential neighborhood. There's no room to expand. The students take up the street for a couple blocks in every direction with parking, along with filling 2 decent sized lots. There is a bond issue (which has failed twice, but is close to passing and might on the next go around) that would sell that swap of land for between 20-30m to Cedar Falls to build the high school there. While it is a TERRIBLE spot to build the high school (for about 5000 reasons) it would give CFHS and UNI direct access to each other and would be greatly beneficial for both.



The end reality is the best number for UNI is between 12-14k. UNI has only 1 phd program (and it's in education). It has less than 20 MA/MS programs (I believe) and almost all of them are education, business, or counseling. UNI isn't a STEM school. It isn't build to be a STEM school. It would be dumb to try to fight Iowa and Iowa State on the STEM side of it - and the Iowa BOR would never let it happen. Not every university is designed/missioned to have 20k+ students, have large grad schools, etc... Look at the schools UNI lists as peer/sister insitutions and you'll find a very distinct pattern (NAU, Fresno State, Illinois State, Indiana State, Central Michigan, Minnesota Duluth, UNC-Greensboro, Ohio, North Texas, Wisconsin-Eau Claire).

I don't know enough about NDSU academics to speak there. UNI is a university that knows what it was founded to do (founded as a normal school - was called the Iowa State Normal School 1876-1909 and then the Iowa State Teachers College 1909-1961, State College of Iowa 1961-1967, then UNI) and does it very well. The funding in Iowa isn't there for UNI to try to branch into new STEM areas. Schools like UNI it's best to focus on the education and accounting/business programs (both of those areas are VERY well respected nationally) and make those as good as they can be. I would assume the same is true for NDSU with things they do well.

I know there is a push to get more online students at UNI, but nothing like Liberty and Arizona State push out.

- - - Updated - - -

This is a map of UNI's campus. It does sit on the SW edge of Cedar Falls, however, it is 100% land locked by residential to the north, south, and east.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20903&stc=1

Here's an areal showing the same exact view
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20904&stc=1


The room you saw to the west of the dome is UNI owned, however, it's not like it's not being used.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20905&stc=1


That area is used for parking overflow for football, basketball, state high school football, etc... This photo shows the area you're talking about
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20906&stc=1

What UNI owns on the south side of the road ends at the smaller parking lot. That apartment complex is one of the most sought after complex by college kids There's something like 750-1000 students that live there (I don't know the exact number, but my wife lived there a year and based on the building she was in 750 would be the lowest number of people living there, but I can't see more than 1k). To the west of that apartment complex is a small extension of the a power plant. On the north side of the road, directly off the parking lots to the west and north, is used as practice fields and intramural sports. I'm not exactly sure what the little building and towers is between that area and the 4 soccer/rugby fields on the far west side of the map. That area is, I believe, set to be redone to bring the soccer team back towards campus, rather than renting the Cedar Valley Soccer Complex. It would also allow those fields to be redone to allow the rugby teams to have a nicer home to play - and the womens rugby coach is a huge name in the rugby world around the upper-midwest.

The reality is, those buildings would also be so far from the rest of campus there would be no way you could take a class on main campus area and get to a class in the next time block in that area. It's not just building spaces for students to live - classroom buildings would need to be built. That area simply doesn't have enough space to properly build that and integrate it into the campus.

That area of land is also a key part of a potential 30ish million dollar sale. Cedar Falls High School DESPERATELY needs a new high school. The building they are in is not equipped to handle the number of students now in the school (~1200 and growing). I lived 4 blocks from CF for 7 years when I was in CF, and it's in a complete residential neighborhood. There's no room to expand. The students take up the street for a couple blocks in every direction with parking, along with filling 2 decent sized lots. There is a bond issue (which has failed twice, but is close to passing and might on the next go around) that would sell that swap of land for between 20-30m to Cedar Falls to build the high school there. While it is a TERRIBLE spot to build the high school (for about 5000 reasons) it would give CFHS and UNI direct access to each other and would be greatly beneficial for both.



The end reality is the best number for UNI is between 12-14k. UNI has only 1 phd program (and it's in education). It has less than 20 MA/MS programs (I believe) and almost all of them are education, business, or counseling. UNI isn't a STEM school. It isn't build to be a STEM school. It would be dumb to try to fight Iowa and Iowa State on the STEM side of it - and the Iowa BOR would never let it happen. Not every university is designed/missioned to have 20k+ students, have large grad schools, etc... Look at the schools UNI lists as peer/sister insitutions and you'll find a very distinct pattern (NAU, Fresno State, Illinois State, Indiana State, Central Michigan, Minnesota Duluth, UNC-Greensboro, Ohio, North Texas, Wisconsin-Eau Claire).

I don't know enough about NDSU academics to speak there. UNI is a university that knows what it was founded to do (founded as a normal school - was called the Iowa State Normal School 1876-1909 and then the Iowa State Teachers College 1909-1961, State College of Iowa 1961-1967, then UNI) and does it very well. The funding in Iowa isn't there for UNI to try to branch into new STEM areas. Schools like UNI it's best to focus on the education and accounting/business programs (both of those areas are VERY well respected nationally) and make those as good as they can be. I would assume the same is true for NDSU with things they do well.

I know there is a push to get more online students at UNI, but nothing like Liberty and Arizona State push out.

[Nickels]

So UNI can't expand west because of an overflow parking lot?

Students can't walk 4 blocks in 15 minutes? Why is this not a problem at every other campus then?

[clenz]

So UNI can't expand west because of an overflow parking lot?

Students can't walk 4 blocks in 15 minutes? Why is this not a problem at every other campus then?
If that's what you took from it then you're a moron

[centennial]

Even if half the ag land that is attached to NDSU can be used, we can increase the size of the university. Plus the downtown buildings are only a couple of miles from the main campus. The truth is there are a lot of people in ND that don't want NDSU to grow more than UND. The state is flush with money, they could easily help the process but they won't. NDSU will never become more than a MAC, maybe MW sized school.
Academically, we are a solid research university but we still need a lot more endowments. Areas where NDSU excels are Agriculture + Stem + Pharmacy and nursing.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Dang clenz, I cannot give you + rep from my phone but kudos for pulling up all that info.

[Nickels]

If that's what you took from it then you're a moron
What other information did you give about expanding west you stupid asshole?

Why can't UNI students walk the same distances as students from hundreds of other Universities?

Don't get pissed of at me that your drawn out defeatist bull**** didn't address some simple ****ing observations.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I don't like split campuses either but if means growth vs stagnation then I'm all for expanding off campus.

We have a campus 40 miles south in The Woodlands. SHSU also has an ag complex, planetarium, an observatory, body farm, and golf course off campus too. Ofcourse some of the off campus structures have to be off campus (no one wants a body farm on campus).

How much of SHSU's campus is taken up by the prison??

[Hammersmith]

Even if half the ag land that is attached to NDSU can be used, we can increase the size of the university. Plus the downtown buildings are only a couple of miles from the main campus. The truth is there are a lot of people in ND that don't want NDSU to grow more than UND. The state is flush with money, they could easily help the process but they won't. NDSU will never become more than a MAC, maybe MW sized school.
Academically, we are a solid research university but we still need a lot more endowments. Areas where NDSU excels are Agriculture + Stem + Pharmacy and nursing.

Shortest distance between the main and downtown NDSU campuses is only .75mi.

The biggest problem about expanding west are the historical plots across the street from the Wellness Center. Those two plots have been in continuous use for flax and wheat for over 100 years. Because of the lineage of data and the soil conditions, those plots might literally be priceless in regards to wheat and flax research. They're even on the National Register of Historic Places. Every other option will be used before those plots get covered up with buildings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Plot_2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Plot_30


IMO, the absolute worst thing that came out of the president's house fiasco was building the new house on the site of the old. If I had had a few million to spare at the time, I would have bought Kappa Delta, Kappa Alpha Theta, and Sigma Chi and built the new house on that combined site(NE corner of the block). If Burgam Hall would be torn down and Putnam Hall moved(it's fairly small), that would create a large area for new construction right in SE corner of campus. Even the library site could be used as that's scheduled to be replaced in the next decade anyway. You could build a new engineering complex there and that would free up the center of campus for redevelopment. But that's all water under the bridge now that the president's house is built.

[Nickels]

How much of SHSU's campus is taken up by the prison??
Which prison? I think there are something like 9 in the area.

Walls (where they execute scumbags) unit is only 2 blocks away. I like it there though. It looks cool and there are groups of hard core regressives protesting the death penalty often. They're fun to antagonize on the way back from Mr. Hamburger.

[FormerPokeCenter]

9 adjunct campuses, eh? That's an awful lot of urnge!

[Nickels]

9 adjunct campuses, eh? That's an awful lot of urnge!
I just wish our students wore orange as much as the inmates.

To clarify, 9 prisons in the Huntsville area not necessarily near campus.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I just wish our students wore orange as much as the inmates.

To clarify, 9 prisons in the Huntsville area not necessarily near campus.

Which prison is on the 190 bypass which goes by the high school?

[Nickels]

Which prison is on the 190 bypass which goes by the high school?
Lets see...The Wynne Unit is right across the street from the fancy new county jail down the road from the high school closer to I45. It seems to be the mildest prison in town. No tall fences, inmates always outside, ect. There's also the Byrd Unit which is closer to the high school near the red light midway down the road but the entrance isn't actually on that road. I think this is the one you're referring to. The Holliday Unit is also near there but it's across 45. If you go north at that midway red light there's another one for sure and I'm pretty sure a second as well. Most of the prisons are in that area or on 45. Walls is the only one that's really in town.

After a while, you stop noticing them. Except Walls ofcourse. That place has a lot of history. Opened before the War of Northern Aggression.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Shortest distance between the main and downtown NDSU campuses is only .75mi.

The biggest problem about expanding west are the historical plots across the street from the Wellness Center. Those two plots have been in continuous use for flax and wheat for over 100 years. Because of the lineage of data and the soil conditions, those plots might literally be priceless in regards to wheat and flax research. They're even on the National Register of Historic Places. Every other option will be used before those plots get covered up with buildings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Plot_2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Plot_30


IMO, the absolute worst thing that came out of the president's house fiasco was building the new house on the site of the old. If I had had a few million to spare at the time, I would have bought Kappa Delta, Kappa Alpha Theta, and Sigma Chi and built the new house on that combined site(NE corner of the block). If Burgam Hall would be torn down and Putnam Hall moved(it's fairly small), that would create a large area for new construction right in SE corner of campus. Even the library site could be used as that's scheduled to be replaced in the next decade anyway. You could build a new engineering complex there and that would free up the center of campus for redevelopment. But that's all water under the bridge now that the president's house is built.

Can't build any more buildings west of the Bobcat building. Airport, FAA regulations. John Deere had to build their new building west of I-29 because there was no more land available on the NDSU campus. Someone on ESPN conversation did all the research last year. NDSU cannot build west of the Bobcat building, because of the runway for the airport. That is why the land is used for ag.

[Hammersmith]

Can't build any more buildings west of the Bobcat building. Airport, FAA regulations. John Deere had to build their new building west of I-29 because there was no more land available on the NDSU campus. Someone on ESPN conversation did all the research last year. NDSU cannot build west of the Bobcat building, because of the runway for the airport. That is why the land is used for ag.

That might be true about the north end of the farmland, but I doubt it's true about the area south of 15th(the road that separates the athletic blocks from the rest of campus). Also, I've always been a little doubtful of all the "FAA says you can't build there" talk. It's always had a bit of an urban legend vibe to me. I don't think I've ever heard it directly from an airport or FAA source. It's always been third or fourth hand information of the "I heard it from this guy" type. And it seems like there was enough room in the R&T Park if JD really wanted to build there; there's a vacant lot across the street from the current JD building(where the Bobcat building was going to go until they got bought out by Doosan). I wonder if the placement of the new JD facility was more about mission than anything. From what I'm seeing, the new building is more about production. The R&T Park is supposed to be about research and startups. A production facility fits in much better in the 12th to 19th industrial zone. But maybe I'm wrong about all of it.

[Drblankstare]

That might be true about the north end of the farmland, but I doubt it's true about the area south of 15th(the road that separates the athletic blocks from the rest of campus). Also, I've always been a little doubtful of all the "FAA says you can't build there" talk. It's always had a bit of an urban legend vibe to me. I don't think I've ever heard it directly from an airport or FAA source. It's always been third or fourth hand information of the "I heard it from this guy" type. And it seems like there was enough room in the R&T Park if JD really wanted to build there; there's a vacant lot across the street from the current JD building(where the Bobcat building was going to go until they got bought out by Doosan). I wonder if the placement of the new JD facility was more about mission than anything. From what I'm seeing, the new building is more about production. The R&T Park is supposed to be about research and startups. A production facility fits in much better in the 12th to 19th industrial zone. But maybe I'm wrong about all of it.

No your right. It was about space and production.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The subcampus is how NDSU is going. The state wouldn't build anything so they started a downtown campus for the College of Business and the College of Visual Arts using donated buildings. I'm not a big fan of splitting up the campus but there really was no choice.

IMO, incorporating certain aspects of the school in downtown Fargo is a SMART move. As I said in another thread, Fargo is a tremendous asset to NDSU. Just like Montana State's appeal is increased by its host city of Bozeman. The difference is, Fargo is a legitimate city while Bozeman is quickly growing towards true city status. Bozeman reminds me a lot of State College and Burlington...

I think a small downtown campus would be awesome. Students would love to see and experience other parts of town.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

That might be true about the north end of the farmland, but I doubt it's true about the area south of 15th(the road that separates the athletic blocks from the rest of campus). Also, I've always been a little doubtful of all the "FAA says you can't build there" talk. It's always had a bit of an urban legend vibe to me. I don't think I've ever heard it directly from an airport or FAA source. It's always been third or fourth hand information of the "I heard it from this guy" type. And it seems like there was enough room in the R&T Park if JD really wanted to build there; there's a vacant lot across the street from the current JD building(where the Bobcat building was going to go until they got bought out by Doosan). I wonder if the placement of the new JD facility was more about mission than anything. From what I'm seeing, the new building is more about production. The R&T Park is supposed to be about research and startups. A production facility fits in much better in the 12th to 19th industrial zone. But maybe I'm wrong about all of it.
Think about it!!! Do you want a plane crashing into a building if it came up short of the runway? No way you can build there. FAA even shut down the 30 to 35 story building they wanted to build on US Bank plaza, downtown. To tall, and will interfere with airplane traffic FAA said. As far as building west of the Bobcat building, I personally talked to the head project engineer for John Deere when I worked there.

[Hammersmith]

IMO, incorporating certain aspects of the school in downtown Fargo is a SMART move. As I said in another thread, Fargo is a tremendous asset to NDSU. Just like Montana State's appeal is increased by its host city of Bozeman. The difference is, Fargo is a legitimate city while Bozeman is quickly growing towards true city status. Bozeman reminds me a lot of State College and Burlington...

I think a small downtown campus would be awesome. Students would love to see and experience other parts of town.

It worked out really well for us since it was our visual art, architecture and business departments that needed new homes. Our downtown district is the commercial and cultural center for Fargo. It was perfect match. I'm hoping our theatre and music departments can move down there eventually so we can create a new College of Arts and Architecture(today, arts are with humanities and social sciences, while architecture just got shifted there from engineering). But the music building is still fairly new(1980) even if it is significantly overcrowded. If Fargo ever builds the performing arts center we talk about from time to time, I hope NDSU tries to be a part of it and uses the opportunity to move the other arts. The music building would be great repurposed as a mass comm/broadcasting building.

[Prime Power]

Why don't they just move the airport.....?

[Laker]

I had a class a couple of weeks ago at Concordia Moorhead on the Geography of the Red River. A geologist from NDSU- I think he is about to retire- gave a great talk about the geology of the area. He showed the difficulties of building by the river and and tall buildings. He said that Fargo won't be growing to the north due to the airport, Moorhead is to the east, West Fargo will eventually get more people than Fargo itself if that trend continues.

We also had a tour of downtown from a retired urban planner. Fargo paired with NDSU to have one of the best bike ride services in the country. He showed us the downtown NDSU connection and of course we ended up by the theater where ESPN has Game Day. Very interesting.

[Hammersmith]

Think about it!!! Do you want a plane crashing into a building if it came up short of the runway? No way you can build there. FAA even shut down the 30 to 35 story building they wanted to build on US Bank plaza, downtown. To tall, and will interfere with airplane traffic FAA said. As far as building west of the Bobcat building, I personally talked to the head project engineer for John Deere when I worked there.

Again, I don't doubt the FAA and NDSU aren't interested in building any further west along 19th. What I'm saying is that the FAA couldn't stop NDSU from building south of 15th if they really wanted to. That area is at least two-thirds of a mile from the end of the runway. And it's not like NDSU goes around building ten story classroom buildings. I think the only buildings taller than three stories are some of the residence halls(LLCs are 4-story, high rises are 9-story). A typical NDSU classroom building wouldn't be any taller than the 12th Ave viaduct, and that's the same area I'm talking about. In fact, I looked up the zoning for the area I'm talking about(15th Ave and south), and the allowed heights would start at 64ft and slowly increase as you move south.

And where do you get that the FAA shut down Burgam's downtown skyscraper? That was trimmed down due to financial reasons and the project has stalled because Burgum can't convince Mitsubishi or another major tenant to commit. The Forum even ran a story that included a part saying the FAA legend was mostly bogus.

http://www.inforum.com/content/faa-questions-height-downtown-fargo-skyscraper


"The FAA doesn't have a lot of ability to prevent construction," he said. "That winds up being a zoning issue for the city. The airport has zoning in place, so if there is a presumed hazard, the city has the ability to stop that construction."

...

Allmendinger said that while the building's height has changed, the mixed-use concept remains. He said the height of the building has nothing to do with the FAA, but rather is because of "market demand."

Here are the zoning restrictions for Hector: https://www.municode.com/library/nd/fargo/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=CH20LADECO_ART20-03OVSPPUDI_S20-0306HHEINAIOV

The most restrictive part of the zoning is called the Precision Instrument Approach Surfaces. Most of the land we're talking about falls into that zone. The height limit in this zone is 1 vertical foot for every 50 horizontal feet starting from a point 200 feet from the end of the runway. That limits buildings right along the south side of 19th to about 13ft, gradually increasing in height until you get to 64ft at 15th, and 116ft at 12th. Other parts of the zoning are even less restrictive.

It doesn't look like anyone has put up a zoning map specifically for Hector/Fargo, but here's a generic airport overlay zoning graphic: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/aero/planning/images/zoning/airspacezonesthreedimensionallarge.JPG

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I had a class a couple of weeks ago at Concordia Moorhead on the Geography of the Red River. A geologist from NDSU- I think he is about to retire- gave a great talk about the geology of the area. He showed the difficulties of building by the river and and tall buildings. He said that Fargo won't be growing to the north due to the airport, Moorhead is to the east, West Fargo will eventually get more people than Fargo itself if that trend continues.

We also had a tour of downtown from a retired urban planner. Fargo paired with NDSU to have one of the best bike ride services in the country. He showed us the downtown NDSU connection and of course we ended up by the theater where ESPN has Game Day. Very interesting.

NDSU still has ample room to grow the campus on the current footprint with proper planning and spacing. They have a TON of surface lots for school of that size. Montana State has maybe half that, UND a 1/3. UND has a parking shortage! Point is, these are all potential building sites at NDSU....

If Temple can expand their campus anyone can....

[Hammersmith]

I had a class a couple of weeks ago at Concordia Moorhead on the Geography of the Red River. A geologist from NDSU- I think he is about to retire- gave a great talk about the geology of the area. He showed the difficulties of building by the river and and tall buildings. He said that Fargo won't be growing to the north due to the airport, Moorhead is to the east, West Fargo will eventually get more people than Fargo itself if that trend continues.

We also had a tour of downtown from a retired urban planner. Fargo paired with NDSU to have one of the best bike ride services in the country. He showed us the downtown NDSU connection and of course we ended up by the theater where ESPN has Game Day. Very interesting.

Yep, that prof is a minor legend around here. His lecture to lay people is often titled: A City Built on "Stilts" (I'm assuming we're talking about the same guy)
https://www.ndsu.edu/fargo_geology/caissons.htm

To the north, the problem isn't just with the airport. It's the combination of that and the Red River. The Red meanders quite a bit west right around the NE corner of the airport. That creates a choke point that is difficult for Fargo to get beyond. And not far beyond the airport to the north are the wastewater lagoons. They take up about a third of the E/W distance between the I-29 and the Red. There's just no place to go to the north on the river side of I-29.

And the west is mostly out of the question as well. West Fargo is currently up against the Sheyenne Diversion channel and can't jump it. The proposed Red River Diversion will give slightly more room to the west, but attempts to push it further west have been denied by the Army Corps of Engineers since it would violate federal laws for funding these types of projects. The only way to go is south, and Fargo/West Fargo has been doing that by about a half mile a year. If/when the RR Diversion is built, it will finally put a boundary around the city. Once the city sprawls out to that limit, there will finally be an incentive to build up instead of out.

[Hammersmith]

NDSU still has ample room to grow the campus on the current footprint with proper planning and spacing. They have a TON of surface lots for school of that size. Montana State has maybe half that, UND a 1/3. UND has a parking shortage! Point is, these are all potential building sites at NDSU....

If Temple can expand their campus anyone can....

You're correct. But a problem is our soil conditions that Laker and I have been referencing. It's difficult and expensive to build heavy structures like a parking garage. It's much, much, much cheaper to put in a surface lot. And since our terrain is flatter than a pancake(no exaggeration*), flat open land is generally easy to come by. Every few years the subject of a parking structure is brought up to replace some of the surface lots. And every few years the subject is dropped once the estimates come in. That will eventually change as the campus gets denser, but we're not there yet. NDSU also came up with a new master plan in 2008 that marked out one million square feet of academic expansion space if all new buildings were four stories tall. A little of that has been used since then, but at least 80% of it is still in play.

*A geologist once said you can create an accurate topographical model of the Red River Valley by going to a home center and picking up a 4x8 sheet of plywood and laying it flat on the ground with the long axis pointing N/S. Grab some standard paper and place five sheets under the SE corner of the plywood and two sheets under the SW corner. You're done. (I could be wrong about the number of sheets of paper, but it was single digits for both.) Another story is that the RRV is so flat that you can accurately determine the circumference of the Earth by using the visible curvature just like you can on a calm ocean. This is why flooding is such a problem for us.

[Gil Dobie]

Is MVFC the SEC of the FCS?

The SEC is the MVFC of FBS!

[DFW HOYA]

If Temple can expand their campus anyone can....

Not everyone...

[FormerPokeCenter]

Not everyone...

They might be some nearby monument space that may be freed up soon...

[CrazyCat]

NDSU still has ample room to grow the campus on the current footprint with proper planning and spacing. They have a TON of surface lots for school of that size. Montana State has maybe half that, UND a 1/3. UND has a parking shortage! Point is, these are all potential building sites at NDSU....

If Temple can expand their campus anyone can....


Are you looking at just parking lots on campus?

[walliver]

The SEC is the MVFC of FBS!

Actually, the ACC is the MVFC of FBS - the same team wins every year.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Are you looking at just parking lots on campus?

Just the surface lots on or directly adjacent to campus.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

You're correct. But a problem is our soil conditions that Laker and I have been referencing. It's difficult and expensive to build heavy structures like a parking garage. It's much, much, much cheaper to put in a surface lot. And since our terrain is flatter than a pancake(no exaggeration*), flat open land is generally easy to come by. Every few years the subject of a parking structure is brought up to replace some of the surface lots. And every few years the subject is dropped once the estimates come in. That will eventually change as the campus gets denser, but we're not there yet. NDSU also came up with a new master plan in 2008 that marked out one million square feet of academic expansion space if all new buildings were four stories tall. A little of that has been used since then, but at least 80% of it is still in play.

*A geologist once said you can create an accurate topographical model of the Red River Valley by going to a home center and picking up a 4x8 sheet of plywood and laying it flat on the ground with the long axis pointing N/S. Grab some standard paper and place five sheets under the SE corner of the plywood and two sheets under the SW corner. You're done. (I could be wrong about the number of sheets of paper, but it was single digits for both.) Another story is that the RRV is so flat that you can accurately determine the circumference of the Earth by using the visible curvature just like you can on a calm ocean. This is why flooding is such a problem for us.

I understand there are certain geological obstacles in the area. In reality, every place has certain hurdles or quirks when it comes to building. With the right campus planning there's no reason NDSU couldn't easily accommodate 20k undergrad and 5k grad students.

NDSU is a very attractive option in that part of the country for out of state students. UND is as well. There's no doubt the NDSU name brand has exploded over the last 2 years. NDSU and UND are like the Vermont and UNH's of the east. Quality national state schools with good athletic programs in growing and interesting cities. All four are located in places that are cold as hell too. The difference is the liberal nature of the New England schools.

The one thing that hurts both of the ND schools is isolation in far eastern ND. ND residents have even said there is a bit of disconnect with the schools relative to Bismarck and points west.

[CrazyCat]

Just the surface lots on or directly adjacent to campus.


I think you need to look at how much land MSU owns and I'm not talking about any of the AG stations.

[Hammersmith]

I understand there are certain geological obstacles in the area. In reality, every place has certain hurdles or quirks when it comes to building. With the right campus planning there's no reason NDSU couldn't easily accommodate 20k undergrad and 5k grad students.

NDSU is a very attractive option in that part of the country for out of state students. UND is as well. There's no doubt the NDSU name brand has exploded over the last 2 years. NDSU and UND are like the Vermont and UNH's of the east. Quality national state schools with good athletic programs in growing and interesting cities. All four are located in places that are cold as hell too. The difference is the liberal nature of the New England schools.

The one thing that hurts both of the ND schools is isolation in far eastern ND. ND residents have even said there is a bit of disconnect with the schools relative to Bismarck and points west.

I completely agree with you about the growth potential and the numbers. I used to think 20k by 2020 was possible, but a few factors have pushed that back. Maybe 20k by 2025 or a bit earlier and 25k by 2030-35?

And you can't underestimate the east-west divide in this state. The east identifies more with MN and the rest of the Midwest, while the west identifies with Montana and the other northern Rocky Mountain states. The nickname for Fargo given by most of the rest of the state is Imperial Cass[County].

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I completely agree with you about the growth potential and the numbers. I used to think 20k by 2020 was possible, but a few factors have pushed that back. Maybe 20k by 2025 or a bit earlier and 25k by 2030-35?

And you can't underestimate the east-west divide in this state. The east identifies more with MN and the rest of the Midwest, while the west identifies with Montana and the other northern Rocky Mountain states. The nickname for Fargo given by most of the rest of the state is Imperial Cass[County].

I grew up in western ND and I disagree that the western part identifies with the Rocky Mountain states. The Fargo part is right on.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think you need to look at how much land MSU owns and I'm not talking about any of the AG stations.

MSU has a ton of land but they don't have nearly as many paved surface lots that NDSU does.

[AmsterBison]

I grew up in western ND and I disagree that the western part identifies with the Rocky Mountain states. The Fargo part is right on.

It's more a Minneapolis v Denver divide, from what I remember. Of course, that was just after the glaciers headed back north.

[CrazyCat]

MSU has a ton of land but they don't have nearly as many paved surface lots that NDSU does.

OK. What does the amount of paved surfaces have to do with ease of campus expansion and growth?

[Laker]

Yep, that prof is a minor legend around here. His lecture to lay people is often titled: A City Built on "Stilts" (I'm assuming we're talking about the same guy)
https://www.ndsu.edu/fargo_geology/caissons.htm

Yep, Donald Schwert. Talked for an hour. Seemed like five minutes. Talked about the problems of building there.

Also got a foot tour of downtown Fargo with Bob Stein, retired city planner. Talked about the density of the downtown businesses and population.

It was fun to talk about how Gameday loves to come to Fargo. Most places they set up on campus. In Fargo it is downtown and it works.

[344Johnson]

Yep, Donald Schwert. Talked for an hour. Seemed like five minutes. Talked about the problems of building there.

Also got a foot tour of downtown Fargo with Bob Stein, retired city planner. Talked about the density of the downtown businesses and population.

It was fun to talk about how Gameday loves to come to Fargo. Most places they set up on campus. In Fargo it is downtown and it works.

From what I understand, there is nowhere on campus to do it. It worked out very well downtown. I was not happy when they announced that though

[Bisonoline]

From what I understand, there is nowhere on campus to do it. It worked out very well downtown. I was not happy when they announced that though

There are plenty of places on campus but ESPN wanted it downtown.

[344Johnson]

There are plenty of places on campus but ESPN wanted it downtown.

Where could we have it on campus? Softball fields maybe?

They made the right call.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

OK. What does the amount of paved surfaces have to do with ease of campus expansion and growth?

Colleges often use large paved parking lots for new buildings. The large number of lots at NDSU simply present locations for NDSU to build on.

[Hammersmith]

Where could we have it on campus? Softball fields maybe?

They made the right call.

NDSU had three or four places on(or near) campus they were going to show the pre-production crew. During the initial tour of Fargo, they were taken downtown and fell in love with the location. The location tour ended at that point.

If I had to guess, I'd say the campus locations would have been the area between the library, Putnam and Old Main, the area east of the Union, the north end of the softball fields, and maybe inside the Fargodome. Obviously the downtown location worked the best, but some of the others wouldn't have been horrible. The on-campus locations would have even made it easier for tailgaters to make both events.

[FargoBison]

I understand there are certain geological obstacles in the area. In reality, every place has certain hurdles or quirks when it comes to building. With the right campus planning there's no reason NDSU couldn't easily accommodate 20k undergrad and 5k grad students.

NDSU is a very attractive option in that part of the country for out of state students. UND is as well. There's no doubt the NDSU name brand has exploded over the last 2 years. NDSU and UND are like the Vermont and UNH's of the east. Quality national state schools with good athletic programs in growing and interesting cities. All four are located in places that are cold as hell too. The difference is the liberal nature of the New England schools.

The one thing that hurts both of the ND schools is isolation in far eastern ND. ND residents have even said there is a bit of disconnect with the schools relative to Bismarck and points west.

Not sure that really hurts NDSU, with reciprocity with MN and Minneapolis just down the interstate being on the far east border is a massive advantage. Of course all the MN kids drive some western legislators a bit crazy but without a major market to feed off of I doubt NDSU would be where it is today.

[1984]

I completely agree with you about the growth potential and the numbers. I used to think 20k by 2020 was possible, but a few factors have pushed that back. Maybe 20k by 2025 or a bit earlier and 25k by 2030-35?

And you can't underestimate the east-west divide in this state. The east identifies more with MN and the rest of the Midwest, while the west identifies with Montana and the other northern Rocky Mountain states. The nickname for Fargo given by most of the rest of the state is Imperial Cass[County].

And that Imperial Cass is about their attitude toward the rest of the state. Treating the remainder of the state as their colonies is exactly why a huge part of the state HATES them. It has nothing to do with the size or location it is simply the attitude.

[AmsterBison]

And that Imperial Cass is about their attitude toward the rest of the state. Treating the remainder of the state as their colonies is exactly why a huge part of the state HATES them. It has nothing to do with the size or location it is simply the attitude.

What a load of garbage. For once, I'd like some examples of "Fargo Imperialism." That kind of parochialism is just a tool used by certain politicians to justify grabbing hundreds of millions of dollars for Bismarck and Grand Forks and as reason to screw over NDSU students every two years.

The reason Fargo is so much more successful than, say, Grand Forks, is that places like Grand Forks have been sucking on the government teat so long that they never developed teeth. And, no, I'm not from Fargo. I grew up in Mandan, my dad's family homesteaded in the SW and my mom's in north central ND.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

What a load of garbage. For once, I'd like some examples of "Fargo Imperialism." That kind of parochialism is just a tool used by certain politicians to justify grabbing hundreds of millions of dollars for Bismarck and Grand Forks and as reason to screw over NDSU students every two years.

The reason Fargo is so much more successful than, say, Grand Forks, is that places like Grand Forks have been sucking on the government teat so long that they never developed teeth. And, no, I'm not from Fargo. I grew up in Mandan, my dad's family homesteaded in the SW and my mom's in north central ND.

As a resident of near Fargo for my entire life I would say that it definitely has that kind of an attitude though I didn't see the extent of their arrogance to do whatever they want until the Red River Diversion project started. An incredibly wasteful project monetarily that allows Fargo to expand using basically bribery to bully their way to flooding other people instead of themselves. But i'm biased

[AmsterBison]

As a resident of near Fargo for my entire life I would say that it definitely has that kind of an attitude though I didn't see the extent of their arrogance to do whatever they want until the Red River Diversion project started. An incredibly wasteful project monetarily that allows Fargo to expand using basically bribery to bully their way to flooding other people instead of themselves. But i'm biased

Well, don't take me for a spokesperson for Fargo. I only lived there for 1.5 years after graduating (and that was 25+ years ago.) Get back to me when the Fargo diversion gets built or when the state picks up the tab for a water treatment plant in Fargo. Heck, get back to me when one promise made to Fargo is kept (like Garrison diversion.)

I had the same attitudes as you growing up, but living outside the state has given me a different perspective.

[IBleedYellow]

As a resident of near Fargo for my entire life I would say that it definitely has that kind of an attitude though I didn't see the extent of their arrogance to do whatever they want until the Red River Diversion project started. An incredibly wasteful project monetarily that allows Fargo to expand using basically bribery to bully their way to flooding other people instead of themselves. But i'm biased


Do tell me, how will Fargo expand when they literally would be building a river diversion that would lock them inside of that area?

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

It allows them to "safely" build into a flood plain. Not sure how this link is going to show up on here but you can see it protects beyond the limits of the city now by flooding other people/farmland. And it costs 2 billion dollars. who is going to pay for that. I mean realistically.

http://fmdiversion.com/pdf/Ph7Mapping%20-%20NeighborhoodMeetings_100yrWPrj.pdf

[Hammersmith]

It allows them to "safely" build into a flood plain. Not sure how this link is going to show up on here but you can see it protects beyond the limits of the city now by flooding other people/farmland. And it costs 2 billion dollars. who is going to pay for that. I mean realistically.

http://fmdiversion.com/pdf/Ph7Mapping%20-%20NeighborhoodMeetings_100yrWPrj.pdf

I'm sorry, but you're wrong on about every part of this. I've got a rebuttal post typed up, but it strayed into dissertation length and I don't want to torture anyone if I don't have to.

Short version:

1. The path is to the south of Fargo because it's cheaper to build it there than place it further north.
2. It will take a 50-year flood (2009 levels) before upstream staging areas are affected. http://www.fmdiversion.com/pdf/Fact%20Check%20Map010313.pdf
3. Paying for it is only waiting on the feds. As soon as they commit their share, the project is ready to go forward.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong on about every part of this. I've got a rebuttal post typed up, but it strayed into dissertation length and I don't want to torture anyone if I don't have to.

Short version:

1. The path is to the south of Fargo because it's cheaper to build it there than place it further north.
2. It will take a 50-year flood (2009 levels) before upstream staging areas are affected. http://www.fmdiversion.com/pdf/Fact%20Check%20Map010313.pdf
3. Paying for it is only waiting on the feds. As soon as they commit their share, the project is ready to go forward.

Yeah this isn't really the place for this but suffice it to say, I disagree. If you want to argue somewhere else we can do that.

[frozennorth]

Yeah this isn't really the place for this but suffice it to say, I disagree. If you want to argue somewhere else we can do that.

Your views are pretend. Hammersmith is correct.

[AmsterBison]

Yeah, I'd rather debate this better done over a beer at tailgating. Why? Beer.

[dewey]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong on about every part of this. I've got a rebuttal post typed up, but it strayed into dissertation length and I don't want to torture anyone if I don't have to.

Short version:

1. The path is to the south of Fargo because it's cheaper to build it there than place it further north.
2. It will take a 50-year flood (2009 levels) before upstream staging areas are affected. http://www.fmdiversion.com/pdf/Fact%20Check%20Map010313.pdf
3. Paying for it is only waiting on the feds. As soon as they commit their share, the project is ready to go forward.

I wish you would have posted the dissertation. Let's move this discussion to this new thread.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?170201-Fargo-Moorhead-Metro-Diversion-project-discussion&p=2229111#post2229111

Dewey