The Big Conference Shuffle

[rmutv]

A couple disclaimers before I begin:
1. I realize that many people have discussed conference "realignment" before, but here in the offseason, several conferences and teams' futures are being called into question, so I feel it's time to revisit. If you all disagree, though, feel free to burn/bury this post.

2. I'm not doing this just for the sake of realignment. I think CS football is in a weird situation right now, and with all of the changes, I think it's time for a new overall look. So here goes.

Western Kentucky is going I-A. Stony Brook leaves the NEC. Duquesne's future (and the MAAC) as a whole is in question. San Diego clammors for a spot at the big boys table. VMI's woes continue. Coastal Carolina performs well and wants more. What to do?

Realign!

Here's my realignment plan for all of CS football, crushing a few conferences, eliminating independents, striving for location battles but also recognizing history and affiliations with conferences in other sports.

This plan calls for the elimination of the MAAC and Pioneer, plus a huge overhaul for the NEC. Several other conferences receive changes as well.

The one drawback to any plan like this is it forces some current non-scholly or limited scholly schools to up the ante. This can be done over a period of time determined by each conference. CS would compensate the teams that are forced to move out of non-scholly to scholly by a pre-determined amount.

This also requires a shuffling of the bids and what-not for the CS playoffs.

This would all take place by 2010.

To the drawing board we go (new members in Italics):

Atlantic 10/CAA -
Delaware
Hofstra
James Madison
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Northeastern
Rhode Island
Richmond
Towson
Villanova
William & Mary
Albany
Central Connecticut St.

Big Sky
Eastern Washington
Idaho State
Montana
Montana State
Northern Arizona U.
Northern Colorado
Portland State
Sacramento State
Weber State

Big South
Charleston Southern
Coastal Carolina
Gardner-Webb
Liberty
VMI
Jacksonville
Davidson

Gateway
Illinois State
Indiana State
Northern Iowa
Southern Illinois
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Youngstown State
Butler
Dayton
Drake
Morehead State


Great West
Cal Poly
University of North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Southern Utah
UC Davis
San Diego
Valparaiso

Ivy
Brown
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Harvard
Pennsylvania
Princeton
Yale

NORTHEAST CONFERENCE
Iona
La Salle
Duquesne
Marist
Saint Peter's
Robert Morris
Sacred Heart
Saint Francis
Wagner

Mid-Eastern Athletic
Bethune-Cookman
Delaware State
Florida A&M
Hampton
Howard
Morgan State
Norfolk State
N.C. A&T State
S.C. State
Winston-Salem

Ohio Valley
Austin Peay
Eastern Illinois
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Murray State
Samford
Southeast Missouri St.
Tennessee-Martin
Tennessee State
Tennessee Tech

Patriot
Bucknell
Colgate
Fordham
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh
Stony Brook
Monmouth

Southern
Appalachian State
Chattanooga
The Citadel
Elon
Furman
Georgia Southern
Western Carolina
Wofford
Savannah State

Southland
Central Arkansas
McNeese State
Nicholls State
Northwestern State
Sam Houston State
Southeastern Louisiana
Stephen F. Austin
Texas State

Southwestern Athletic
Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Alcorn State
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Grambling State
Jackson State
Mississippi Valley State
Prairie View A&M
Southern
Texas Southern

NOTES AND EXPLANATIONS
Atlantic 10 - Albany and CCSU join because of proximity and desire to upgrade, plus no other athletics affiliations. Confernce becomes two division conference. Conference championship determines autobid.

Big Sky - No changes, one division conference.

Big South - Jacksonville and Davidson move for proximity. Might help struggling VMI.

Gateway - Butler, Dayton, Drake, and Morehead State all in the region. Two division conference. Conference champ equals autobid.

Great West - North Dakota is joining I-AA. San Diego wants better opponents. Valpo gets dragged along.

Ivy - no changes, no playoffs.

Northeast - merging of the remnants of the MAAC and NEC.

MEAC - Winston-Salem already declared intentions to join. No changes.

OVC - Austin peay declared intentions already. No changes.

Patriot - Stony Brook and Monmouth migrate from NEC, but will need to pull up academics to be accepted. Loses autobid despite additions.

Southern - Savannah State is the only addition. They haven't declared intentions yet.

Southland - Central Arkansas has already declared their intentions. No changes

SWAC - no changes.

PLAYOFFS:
A-10 - 1 autobid
Big Sky - 1 autobid
Big South - no autobid
Gateway - 1 autobid
Great West - 1 autobid.
Ivy - no playoffs.
Northeast - no autobid.
MEAC - 1 autobid.
OVC - 1 autobid
Patriot - no autobid
Southern - 1 autobid
Southland - 1 autobid
SWAC - no playoffs.

Still leaves 8 autobids with the reshuffling. Eight at-large bids remain and can include teams from all conferences except the Ivy League and SWAC.

Remember, this wouldn't conclude until 2010, so all eligibility requirements hampering certain teams from being playoff eligible would no longer be in effect.

Now that you've made it this far, feel free to pick apart! :rotateh:

[chiapet9]

the A-10/CAA is already too big - and in 2008 will be adding Old Dominion to its football roster. I don't think Albany or CConn St. have any place in the A-10

i think a conference championship works nicely in the BCS because they have extra time before bowl games start (generally speaking) but that would mean we would have to give up an OOC game (or a bye week) to make room for the championship game. i do, however, think it would be nice if there were a tie among schools (as there would have been this year had JMU beaten Villanova and both UMass and JMU had been undefeated - in that case its hard to decide who gets the bid when they've never played each other) but other than that...i just think that 12 teams is a lot. (and it would be 13 in '08)

[Seven Would Be Nice]

Southern
Appalachian State
Chattanooga
The Citadel
Elon
Furman
Georgia Southern
Western Carolina
Wofford
Savannah State


I don't see the SoCon picking up a potential bottom dweller team.

[BearsCountry]

Yeah I'm sure those non-scholarship programs are going to join the Gateway.

[OL FU]

Big South - Jacksonville and Davidson move for proximity. Might help struggling VMI.

Davidson is in the SoCon for everything but football since the '30's. The are geographically ok in the SoCon. The only reason they are not in for football is because they don't want to give scholarships.

and Furman's admin just had a heart attack when you mentioned Sav St. :rotateh:

[89Hen]

It's just a non-starter. Teams are not going to realign for football.

[Shockerman]

Gateway
Illinois State
Indiana State
Northern Iowa
Southern Illinois
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Youngstown State
Butler
Dayton
Drake
Morehead State


Great West
Cal Poly
University of North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Southern Utah
UC Davis
San Diego
Valparaiso



Oh how I love speculation...However, I would like to make a few changes, tweak the system if you will.

Gateway/Valley
Wichita State (2012)
Illinois State
Missouri State
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Northern Iowa
Drake
Butler (added as full conference member in exchange for Evansville)

-Indiana State should look at going non-scholly for a few years while they
get their ducks in a row, build an on campus stadium etc... Much like
Austin Peay

-YSU goes DI when Temple opens up a spot for them in the MAC

-Gateway changes name back to Valley and signs a scheduling agreement with GWFC, it will be worked out so that each team only has to play a non-scholly once a year for RPI reasons.

GWFC
NDSU
UND
USD
SDSU
Sac State
Poly
UC Davis
San Diego

-Swap SUU to the Big Sky for Sac State
-USD (South Dakota) will announce here in a few weeks they are going DI
with UND, it is a done deal
-The three non-schollys will be required to field 15 scholarships in
Football. The benefit to them is that they are now playoff eligible and will
qualify for playoff tv revenue in the new CS that will take the
sports world by storm after Michigan and Ohio State rematch for a
BCS title.:D
-My only hitch is what to do about the rest of the non-schollys. Any
suggestions?

[crunifan]

Shockers need to get on it and get some football going down there in Wichita! We Gateway fans want some MVC football back!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Stony Brook is a public institution that would have to perform a 180 on scholarships just to fit the Patriot League model. Very unlikely, to say the least. As for Monmouth, their problems are detailed on another thread, but a 53% graduation rate ain't going to cut it academically.

And what is that "loses autobid besides additions" crap? :eyebrow:

[youwouldno]

Realignment doesn't work that way, end of story.

[Franks Tanks]

Your Patriot League realigment is absolutely ridicilious, but I know your from western PA and all so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. First of all lose the autobid? We had one bad season so quickly you forget Colgate played in the title game in 2003. Also expansion has been discussed ad nauseum and it is no secret the Patriot league covets three schools only-- Villanova, Bill & Mary, and Richmond. They are a LONG shot to say the least, any all other schools will enter the league out of necessity and we wont be excited about it.

[Cocky]

I don't see the SoCon picking up a potential bottom dweller team.

Aren't they courting Samford?

[WUTNDITWAA]

Southern
Appalachian State
Chattanooga
The Citadel
Elon
Furman
Georgia Southern
Western Carolina
Wofford
Savannah State




Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Thanks for the laugh. xlolx

[Cincy App]

The SoCon is considering expansion and may make some bad decisions - certainly wouldn't surprise me. But I can GUARANTEE you that the SoCon will not add Savannah State - the worst overall program in I-AA.

As Youwouldno said - realignment doesn't work this way.

[appisgreatest]

Anybody know any realistic teams that could be added to the socon?

[windwalker]

Anybody know any realistic teams that could be added to the socon?
there are a few, but due to the quotes of so many App St fans on here... they all have declined to be a part of it:smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi :smiley_wi

[rmutv]

Well this thread is doing exactly what I wanted to...open discussion.

My plan certainly has holes. That's why you guys are here to pick it apart. Not that this will go before the CS heads or anything!

Regarding the Patriot League. The only reason it lost the autobid in my plan was because of the emergence of another strong conference out west.

I guess you could say I just did a geographical balance. *shrugs*

Not official by any means. Just a discussion starter, although some of you consider it a non-starter. That's okay too!

[BearsCountry]

Anybody know any realistic teams that could be added to the socon?

Coastal, Jacksonville State, Samford, VMI

[gophoenix]

Anybody know any realistic teams that could be added to the socon?

The loose list of schools mentioned ins various places of the media:
Coastal, Jacksonville State, Samford, VMI, Tennessee Tech, Kennesaw St, Georgia State, UNCW, Hampton, NC A&T

[PaladinFan]

Savannah State wouldn't just be a bottom dweller. I don't think they'd score a touchdown in conference play.

[TheBisonator]

Great West

Cal Poly
University of North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Southern Utah
UC Davis
San Diego
Valparaiso



xidiotx

[chiapet9]

The loose list of schools mentioned ins various places of the media:
Coastal, Jacksonville State, Samford, VMI, Tennessee Tech, Kennesaw St, Georgia State, UNCW, Hampton, NC A&T


VMI left the SoCon because they couldn't win games. now they're in the Big South - and can't win games. Why would the SoCon want them back if they're not good competition??

Also - it would be VERY difficult to convince Hampton or NC A&T to leave their HBCU conference and join the SoCon (granted if Hampton wants to be taken seriously ever they need to consider who they play throughout the season...

[Dane96]

Stony Brook and Albany applied for PL expansion 7 years ago. DENIED.

Morhead, Valpo, etc....not going to spend the dollars.

Georgia State also has an exploratory group going on (and I have heard it from an athletic administrator that they are pretty solid with this).

Northeastern, gulp, may drop the program if they dont get their stadium. I have now heard this from three different sources...one as late as yesterday (my physical therapist...who works in PT at NU). This is a much bigger issue than people think.

The biggest changes, IMHO, will come with additions to the Great West and the Southern.

THE BIGGEST...and BADDEST CHANGES: THE CAA...whether people want to hear it or not. 12 (soon to be 13...maybe 14...maybe back down to 13) is going to wear on the league. 13 teams gunning for 2-3 bids (off years maybe 4) isnt going to cut it...unless their is playoff expansion. It may work now...but it wont work for long.

IN OVERALL SPORTS (believe it or not...Maine Jeff makes a valid point) there is going to be a tug of war in the mid-atlantic and northeast in OVERALL SPORT league structure between the CAA (established), the A-TEN (status quo) and the AE.

Laugh it up, but the AE has a Commish from UMiami...who is gung ho on changing things. The results are apparent in the Olympic Sports. He even got the Presidents to institute new academic standards...new game day marketing....new TV packages...and new scheduling minimum standards for basketball. The AE is making its move.

Now, the CAA is unquestionably the hot-mid major Eastern Conference. The AE the upstart...the A-Ten stagnant. Someone is going to lose in this reshuffle...and it most likely will be the A-Ten. The A-Ten is a group of hodge podge schools who have little in common (some tradition). Additionally, the hoops league has been in the dumpers since the late 90's-early 2000's run.

If....and this is a big if....the AE continues to improve its basketball profile (last nights games did not help), I would not be shocked to see URI or UMASS (who yes...have talked to the AE) make the jump in 5 years.

All of this...the overall sports picture...will effect the football shakeout when ODU (and possibly GSU) come aboard. Honestly...I cant see GSU staying in the CAA if they get football.

And then you have JMU...aspiring to move up.

Finally, if the PL goes to some form of scholarships (and I believe they will), you can put money down that Nova is in. While they love the CAA, the PL is where they belong...and I have no doubt that UD and Nova will keep their game alive.

Richmond...would be the interesting choice....and I could see them coming home to where they really belong: THE CAA FOR ALL SPORTS!!!!

Many questions.

[OL FU]

Aren't they courting Samford?


xlolx xlolx xlolx
:nod: :nod: :nod:

[henfan]

Hampton has already applied for full membership to the SoCon at CAA but never received an official rejection from either conference.

[chiapet9]

i think Hampton could go to the SoCon...i think the CAA is already too large -

unless we got rid of some other schools and added Hampton along with ODU. then there would be 5 Virginia schools with football (George Mason probably won't have a football team as long as their current president is there because he doesn't want one)

if Mason added a football team - the CAA could have almost enough teams below the mason dixon line to form their own conference.

[blukeys]

the A-10/CAA is already too big - and in 2008 will be adding Old Dominion to its football roster. I don't think Albany or CConn St. have any place in the A-10


I think those 2 teams and Stony Brook fit the basic CAA profile. They are public institutions with around 10,000 undergrads. All three are upgrading athletics. I would not rule it out.

[blukeys]

PLAYOFFS:
A-10 - 1 autobid
Big Sky - 1 autobid
Big South - no autobid
Gateway - 1 autobid
Great West - 1 autobid.
Ivy - no playoffs.
Northeast - no autobid.
MEAC - 1 autobid.
OVC - 1 autobid
Patriot - no autobid
Southern - 1 autobid
Southland - 1 autobid
SWAC - no playoffs.



Just curious. Why does the Patriot League lose an autobid but the MEAC and OVC keep theirs? Since 2000 the Patriot has performed better in the playoffs than these 2 conferences.

[Franks Tanks]

Just curious. Why does the Patriot League lose an autobid but the MEAC and OVC keep theirs? Since 2000 the Patriot has performed better in the playoffs than these 2 conferences.

Thank You Bluekeys obviously you are a very intilligent and successful man

[rmutv]

Just curious. Why does the Patriot League lose an autobid but the MEAC and OVC keep theirs? Since 2000 the Patriot has performed better in the playoffs than these 2 conferences.

Honestly? I went with numbers. I went back and forth on it, but since the redesigned MEAC and OVC had 10 participants while the Patriot League had 9.

While that would mean the PL had more room for tougher schedules, I couldn't get past ignoring a ten team conference for an autobid.

Numbers, is all.

I think there are some good things here, but obviously it'd be a ton of work if there were ever a realignment to happen in CS football. That much has been made clear by all of the comments, concerns, and outright criticism. :nod:

[rmutv]

Many questions.

I think that says it all right there. This is just a proposal whipped out during some down time...

I would not want to be on a committee that actually had to do this and deal with irate and stubborn AD's and University Presidents.

It's one thing to just arbitrarily shuffle teams. It's another to convince some to spend much more money and to convince others to break ties with longtime rivals in order to make a more interesting arrangement.

[youwouldno]

There is no such thing as a massive, simultaneous realignment. What is so hard to understand?

[gophoenix]

Want realignment on multiple factors, then here (it's next to impossible and will never happen because of the money involved and the coordination):

CAA -
Delaware
James Madison
Towson
Villanova
Hofstra
Northeastern
Coastal Carolina
Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Old Dominion

American East
Maine
Massachusetts
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Albany
Central Connecticut St.
Stony Brook
Monmouth

Big Sky
Eastern Washington
Idaho State
Montana
Montana State
Northern Arizona U.
Northern Colorado
Portland State
Sacramento State
Weber State

Big South
Delaware State
Charleston Southern
Gardner-Webb
Campbell
Jacksonville
Presbyterian
(Leaves room for UNCP, High Point, West Georgia, Wingate or others to move up/start in the region)

Gateway
Illinois State
Indiana State
Northern Iowa
Southern Illinois
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Youngstown State
Eastern Illinois
Dayton
Butler

Great West
Cal Poly
University of North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Southern Utah
UC Davis
San Diego
Valparaiso
Butler

Ivy
Brown
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Harvard
Pennsylvania
Princeton
Yale

NORTHEAST CONFERENCE
Iona
La Salle
Duquesne
Marist
Saint Peter's
Robert Morris
Sacred Heart
Saint Francis
Wagner

Mid-Eastern Athletic
Bethune-Cookman
Florida A&M
Howard
Morgan State
Norfolk State
N.C. A&T State
S.C. State
Winston-Salem State
NC Central
Savannah St

Ohio Valley
Morehead State
Austin Peay
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Murray State
Southeast Missouri St.
Tennessee-Martin
Tennessee State
Tennessee Tech
UTC
Western Carolina

Patriot
Bucknell
Colgate
Fordham
Georgetown
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh

Southern
The Citadel
Elon
Furman
Wofford
William & Mary
Richmond
VMI
Davidson
Hampton
Liberty
Samford

Southland
Central Arkansas
McNeese State
Nicholls State
Northwestern State
Sam Houston State
Southeastern Louisiana
Stephen F. Austin
Texas State

Southwestern Athletic
Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Alcorn State
Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Grambling State
Jackson State
Mississippi Valley State
Prairie View A&M
Southern
Texas Southern

[DFW HOYA]

Want realignment on multiple factors, then here (it's next to impossible and will never happen because of the money involved and the coordination):

Ivy
Brown
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Harvard
Pennsylvania
Princeton
Yale



What, not the "Big Ivy"?

Ivy North
Brown
Colgate
Cornell
Dartmouth
Harvard
Holy Cross

Ivy South
Columbia
Georgetown
Richmond
Penn
Princeton
Yale

:smiley_wi

[Kill'em]

Two things are certain in the SoCon: 1) The SoCon doesn't want Savannah St and, 2) Savannah St wants to join an HBCU league and would not consider a move to the SoCon.

[Dane96]

There is no such thing as a massive, simultaneous realignment. What is so hard to understand?

I am going to refrain from answering that question...but the inadequacy of the original post says it all.

[gophoenix]

Ivy North
Brown
Colgate
Cornell
Dartmouth
Harvard
Holy Cross

Ivy South
Columbia
Georgetown
Richmond
Penn
Princeton
Yale

Because I think it's obvious that Richmond, Holy Cross and Colgate and Georgetown would like to make the playoffs :)

[BearsCountry]

Here is going to be the realingment/conference shuffle moves:

The first one is NDSU and SDSU to the Gateway.
Gateway
Illinois State
Indiana State
Missouri State
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Southern Illinois
UNI
Western Illinois
Youngstown State

To react to that GWFC adds North Dakota and South Dakota plus maybe San Diego or any other western moveup.
GWFC
Cal-Davis
Cal Poly
North Dakota
South Dakota
Southern Utah
?San Diego
?Move Up Team

The other moves is out east. CAA, I doubt will still operate as the monster league especially with league member Old Dominion and possible Georgia State starting football. Plus with AE members getting more and more into football look for a split.
CAA
Delaware
Hofstra
James Madison
Northeastern
Old Dominion
Towson
William & Mary
Richmond (football only)
Georgia State (maybe future football school)

America East
Albany
Maine
New Hampshire
Stony Brook
Central Conneticut State
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Villanova

Other than that I don't really know what might happen.