Playoff format

[clenz]

With the MEAC giving up their auto bid do we know for sure the playoff field is staying at 24 this year? Has the playoff committee commented on that?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I doubt if you'll get them to give any back.

[Libertine]

It's almost certain to stay at 24. By rule, any NCAA playoff has to consist of 50% or less autobid teams so, given that there are 11 autobid conferences, the playoff field has to be at least 22 teams. I have no idea what a 22-team bracket would look like and I doubt it expands now that the 11 MEAC teams have withdrawn.

[Professor Chaos]

It's almost certain to stay at 24. By rule, any NCAA playoff has to consist of 50% or less autobid teams so, given that there are 11 autobid conferences, the playoff field has to be at least 22 teams. I have no idea what a 22-team bracket would look like and I doubt it expands now that the 11 MEAC teams have withdrawn.
There's only 10 autobids now without the MEAC so it could go back to the 20 team format from 2010-2012.

That said I think it'll stay at 24 with 14 at large bids although I'm pretty sure there's been no official comment.

[clenz]

It's almost certain to stay at 24. By rule, any NCAA playoff has to consist of 50% or less autobid teams so, given that there are 11 autobid conferences, the playoff field has to be at least 22 teams. I have no idea what a 22-team bracket would look like and I doubt it expands now that the 11 MEAC teams have withdrawn.
I know the 50/50 rule but there's only 10 autos.

I assume it will stay 24 though in case the Ivy decides it wants to play ball.

Are the MEAC teams officially out of AL contention as well since they are giving up their auto?

[kdinva]

....Are the MEAC teams officially out of AL contention as well since they are giving up their auto?

I don't think so.......if a team is worthy enough, and is not playing the opening round weekend (RE: no conflicts).....then I would say "yes"......

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I know the 50/50 rule but there's only 10 autos.

I assume it will stay 24 though in case the Ivy decides it wants to play ball.

Are the MEAC teams officially out of AL contention as well since they are giving up their auto?

MEAC teams not going to the Celebration Bowl will almost certainly be "eligible" for AL consideration. Having said that, it's the same "eligibility" that's given to SWAC runners-up, and in the SWAC's history no runner-up has qualified for an at-large bid. It's fair to say it would take a very special team, say, a 10-1 team with an FBS win, to probably qualify in that way.

Only the Ivy explicitly prohibits its members from postseason play. The SWAC (and now the MEAC) declare that their champions go to the Celebration Bowl, and the rest of their teams are free to accept an invite if they get one. They've just never gotten one.

[Libertine]

I stand corrected. I think I counted the MVFC twice. Draw your own conclusions there.

[clenz]

I stand corrected. I think I counted the MVFC twice. Draw your own conclusions there.
As it should be.

[walliver]

I just hope they don't expand it again.

[clenz]

The IVY is the only league, other than the MEAC and SWAC, that "needs" a bid.

Even if Ivy came out and said "We are playing this year" they would step right into the MEACs spot.

If 2 of the 3 happen it's still 12 AQ and 12 AL

It would take all three wanting in for it to happen and I don't see that happening

[Daytripper]

More at large bids make for a stronger field.

[Herder]

The college football playoff is only 4 teams, so I expect the champions from the MVFC, CAA, BSC, SCon, Southland and OVC to be fighting for 4 spots.

Last year the 4 team Playoff consisted of 1)New Hampshire (CAA), 2) NDSU (MVFC), 3) Jacksonville State (OVC), and 4) EWU (BSC). TCU, I mean IL State was on the outside looking in. Nice job by the selection committee . . . not.

[Herder]

The IVY is the only league, other than the MEAC and SWAC, that "needs" a bid.

Even if Ivy came out and said "We are playing this year" they would step right into the MEACs spot.

If 2 of the 3 happen it's still 12 AQ and 12 AL

It would take all three wanting in for it to happen and I don't see that happening

Nooo . . . the Ivy can't participate. When Harvard loses in the 1st round to a state school, there would be way too much butt hurt!

[344Johnson]

Nooo . . . the Ivy can't participate. When Harvard loses in the 1st round to a state school, there would be way too much butt hurt!

Don't piss off the Ivy League. The last thing you want is them deciding they want to be big cheese again.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Don't piss off the Ivy League. The last thing you want is them deciding they want to be big cheese again.

They would have a very hard time doing that. The evolution of the "athlete-student" has made the school less of an attraction than it used to be.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They would have a very hard time doing that. The evolution of the "athlete-student" has made the school less of an attraction than it used to be.

xlolx Very funny!

[clenz]

They would have a very hard time doing that. The evolution of the "athlete-student" has made the school less of an attraction than it used to be.
This is true, even if they don't believe it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Harvard Fall 2013 acceptance rate
5.8%

[DFW HOYA]

Harvard Fall 2013 acceptance rate
5.8%




Thanks to the Common Application. Three cheers for the schools which choose not to artificially deflate their acceptance rates.

[FargoBison]

Should be 20 but they'll likely stick with 24.

[Twentysix]

I can't imagine they would shrink the playoffs. Every additional slot allows the NDSUs and Montanas of the FCS an extra chance to make the championship game and actually fill the stadium.

[Sader87]

The FCS playoffs pool should be about 8 or 12 teams at most.....way too protracted now. No one outside of a few isolated regions really cares who is the FCS champ.

[Bisonoline]

The FCS playoffs pool should be about 8 or 12 teams at most.....way too protracted now. No one outside of a few isolated regions really cares who is the FCS champ.

That's not the point of competing.

[Twentysix]

The FCS playoffs pool should be about 8 or 12 teams at most.....way too protracted now. No one outside of a few isolated regions really cares who is the FCS champ.

The latter part of your argument can be said about any sport. # of fans is all relative. Even the NFL has hundreds of millions of people within its country of origin that give zero ****s who wins each year.

The latter half of your argument doesn't support the front half either. If no one cares then why does the number of teams in post season matter?

[Sader87]

If you're going to have a play-off system...fine....24 teams is ridiculous imo.

[Catatonic]

If you're going to have a play-off system...fine....24 teams is ridiculous imo.

I am of the view that the FBS playoff has too few teams, FCS too many. A four team playoff when there are 5 power conferences automatically excludes at least one champion of a major conference and effectively eliminates any hope that a mid major might receive a post season offer.

A 24 team FCS playoff diminishes the importance of the regular season and winning a conference championship. Limiting the playoff to conference champions makes every regular season game more meaningful. I hasten to add that I appreciate the arguments in favor expanded play offs and I understand that most pro leagues have an expanded play off format, with the NBA topping the list. I wouldn't call a 24 team play off "ridiculous", it just isn't my preference.

[Mattymc727]

I love the 24 team format. I understand talent gets diluted quite a bit in the back, but its our one chance to see great inter conference match-ups (I understand they have screwed that up too) that wouldnt happen otherwise. Heck, I might add a few teams....

If changes were to be made, it should be in stopping the regionalization and seeding 1-24

[clenz]

I love the 24 team format. I understand talent gets diluted quite a bit in the back, but its our one chance to see great inter conference match-ups (I understand they have screwed that up too) that wouldnt happen otherwise. Heck, I might add a few teams....

If changes were to be made, it should be in stopping the regionalization and seeding 1-24
Add more teams? Just so teams they might not play do?

Bull****

[Mattymc727]

Add more teams? Just so teams they might not play do?

Bull****

Just an opinion, asshat

[clenz]

Just an opinion, asshat
You do realize expanding for the sake of expanding is a terrible idea, right?

Not just in the playoffs but in every aspect of pretty much everything. Although, expanding strictly for the sake of expanding and then getting rid of regionalization is an even worse idea. You'd then have 24 seed traveling cross country to get slaughtered by whatever seed would play 24. That seed then gets to travel cross country to play another team.


The only time anything should expand is with a strong, clear, intention. Playoffs, business, stock portfolios, waistlines, etc...


Nice of you to get so defensive and resort to name calling though.....bitchtits

[Mattymc727]

You do realize expanding for the sake of expanding is a terrible idea, right?

Not just in the playoffs but in every aspect of pretty much everything. Although, expanding strictly for the sake of expanding and then getting rid of regionalization is an even worse idea. You'd then have 24 seed traveling cross country to get slaughtered by whatever seed would play 24. That seed then gets to travel cross country to play another team.


The only time anything should expand is with a strong, clear, intention. Playoffs, business, stock portfolios, waistlines, etc...


Nice of you to get so defensive and resort to name calling though.....bitchtits

Again, your opinion. There is no right answer to this, regardless of how smart you think you are. I like the idea of a 24 seed going across the country to take on the high seed, god forbid an upset happens every once in a while. This of course would never happen because the NCAA sucks ass but I like the idea.

March Madness works for a reason. More the merrier. I also think the FBS should expand to at least 24 too.

[clenz]

There is a point of diminishing returns.

Basketball hit it at 64, it's why the first four is now gone. The reason the number is so high for basketball tournament is the 50/50 rule.

FCS football, realistically, is 16. 24 is acceptable but once you start getting to 5 loss teams arguing over if 4 losses in MVFC play deserves a spot more than 3 losses in the SLC you are at a point that the chances either of those teams actually makes a run is about 5%. If the playoffs goes beyond 24 we are going to start having multiple team from the Pioneer and Patriot and it's no longer about creating a tournament to find the best team. It's about including everyone that wants to play.

FBS would start to see a diminishing return at 12 teams.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

When longshots beat established schools in their division/subdivision, the playoffs win.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FCS football, realistically, is 16. 24 is acceptable but once you start getting to 5 loss teams arguing over if 4 losses in MVFC play deserves a spot more than 3 losses in the SLC you are at a point that the chances either of those teams actually makes a run is about 5%. If the playoffs goes beyond 24 we are going to start having multiple team from the Pioneer and Patriot and it's no longer about creating a tournament to find the best team. It's about including everyone that wants to play.

Because having a 10-1 or 8-3 at-large team from the Patriot would have wrecked the playoffs... oh, wait. xlolx

I don't disagree there's a point of diminishing returns, but 24 with 11 autos doesn't seem like that's at that point yet. Now it would be better with 24/12 autos...

Worth mentioning here that SHSU made a run through the first round and made it all the way to the semis vs. NDSU with two road playoff wins last season, so it's hardly out of the realm of possibility that a team could play in the 1st round and still make the title game. Understood that SHSU was an AQ winner, but certainly that could apply to any at-large team of about the same ability.

[Mattymc727]

There is a point of diminishing returns.

Basketball hit it at 64, it's why the first four is now gone. The reason the number is so high for basketball tournament is the 50/50 rule.

FCS football, realistically, is 16. 24 is acceptable but once you start getting to 5 loss teams arguing over if 4 losses in MVFC play deserves a spot more than 3 losses in the SLC you are at a point that the chances either of those teams actually makes a run is about 5%. If the playoffs goes beyond 24 we are going to start having multiple team from the Pioneer and Patriot and it's no longer about creating a tournament to find the best team. It's about including everyone that wants to play.

FBS would start to see a diminishing return at 12 teams.

Fair points, but Im a football romantic. In the FBS, a top 25 team can upset anybody, on any given day, thats exciting to me (lets say #22 over #4). Limiting the number because a computer says the #22 team has no shot to win it doesnt sit well with me. Im not trying to expand the FCS playoffs to 64 teams, but I would happily welcome another 4-6 teams if the NCAA did a better job of eliminating conference regionalization and balance it to the FCS power conferences.

I like the idea of UNH getting to play a 7-5 Northern Arizona rather than having to play Lafayette and Maine... Does a 7-5 Northern Arizona have a shot to win it all? probably not, but do they have a shot to go come to NH and beat UNH that day? sure do.

Last playoffs worked really well for UNH, we got to see Chattanooga and Illinois State. UNH has never played those teams and may never again. Whether it was McNeese, Montana State, or UNI, those are the type of matchups I want to see regardless of the talent.

To quote this site, ANY GIVEN SATURDAY

[MR. CHICKEN]

When longshots beat established schools in their division/subdivision, the playoffs win.


20701......AGEREED HAWK!.......UNDERDAWGS....IT'S DUH REASON ROUNDBALL 64.....IS SO COOL.........LISTEN TA UH REGIONAL COURT WHEN....SAY DUKE IS LOSIN'....TA UH MEAC.......OR DUH EQUIVALENT........LATE.........EVERAH-ONE IN DUH SEATS/TV LAND......IS HOPIN'......DEY PULL IT OFF....xhypedx...BRAWK!


WHAA WOOD ANYONE...WANT TA SHRINK DUH FIELD.....xconfusedxxdontknowxxconfusedx...DANCIN' ...BEATS BLACK FRIDAY SHOPPIN'......AN' EACH SATURDAY...DURIN' DUH RUN.....KEEPS MAH TICKER...TICKIN'........ESPN2/3.....CAIN'T GET 'NUFF......AWK!



SENT FROM MAH COMPUTER.....HAL

[clenz]

Fair points, but Im a football romantic. In the FBS, a top 25 team can upset anybody, on any given day, thats exciting to me (lets say #22 over #4). Limiting the number because a computer says the #22 team has no shot to win it doesnt sit well with me. Im not trying to expand the FCS playoffs to 64 teams, but I would happily welcome another 4-6 teams if the NCAA did a better job of eliminating conference regionalization and balance it to the FCS power conferences.

I like the idea of UNH getting to play a 7-5 Northern Arizona rather than having to play Lafayette and Maine... Does a 7-5 Northern Arizona have a shot to win it all? probably not, but do they have a shot to go come to NH and beat UNH that day? sure do.

Last playoffs worked really well for UNH, we got to see Chattanooga and Illinois State. UNH has never played those teams and may never again. Whether it was McNeese, Montana State, or UNI, those are the type of matchups I want to see regardless of the talent.

To quote this site, ANY GIVEN SATURDAY
What I'm getting from you is "I don't care if the best teams wins as long as I get to see teams that I don't during the regular season". That's what the OOC is for. Tell your AD to make some damn phone calls if you want to see Illinois State or UT-C because "you've never seen them before".

I want the best teams to play for a title.

[Twentysix]

You do realize expanding for the sake of expanding is a terrible idea, right?

Not just in the playoffs but in every aspect of pretty much everything. Although, expanding strictly for the sake of expanding and then getting rid of regionalization is an even worse idea. You'd then have 24 seed traveling cross country to get slaughtered by whatever seed would play 24. That seed then gets to travel cross country to play another team.


The only time anything should expand is with a strong, clear, intention. Playoffs, business, stock portfolios, waistlines, etc...


Nice of you to get so defensive and resort to name calling though.....bitchtits

"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell" - Edward Abbey :p

[MR. CHICKEN]

What I'm getting from you is "I don't care if the best teams wins as long as I get to see teams that I don't during the regular season". That's what the OOC is for. Tell your AD to make some damn phone calls if you want to see Illinois State or UT-C because "you've never seen them before".

I want the best teams to play for a title.


.......DUH BEST TEAMS.....SHOOD FILTER...THRU DUH DANCE....IFIN' AN UPSET OCCURS......LOSIN' SQWAD......WASN'T ONE UH BEST....BROCK-A-DOODLE-DOO!

[lionsrking2]

IMO, 32 is best number. Everybody plays in round one.

[Twentysix]

IMO, 32 is best number. Everybody plays in round one.

If everyone plays every round the whole field would need to be seeded imo.

Otherwise there is much less incentive to do well in the regular season.

[Mattymc727]

What I'm getting from you is "I don't care if the best teams wins as long as I get to see teams that I don't during the regular season". That's what the OOC is for. Tell your AD to make some damn phone calls if you want to see Illinois State or UT-C because "you've never seen them before".

I want the best teams to play for a title.

The best teams do play for the title, thats why its the playoffs, whether its 12 teams or 32. The best team wins the whole thing. If a high seed gets bounced early, they werent the best team. If so called bad teams from bad conferences get in and they lose, so be it.

And your summary of what I want isnt far off. Our AD and coach have to save money so we dont get to schedule teams outside of NE. Im jealous of the Montana/NDSU games and the UNI/Eastern Washington games. That doesnt happen in the CAA. If the NCAA would pay up and not have regionalization I would get more excitement out of it.

[clenz]

The best teams do play for the title, thats why its the playoffs, whether its 12 teams or 32. The best team wins the whole thing. If a high seed gets bounced early, they werent the best team. If so called bad teams from bad conferences get in and they lose, so be it.

And your summary of what I want isnt far off. Our AD and coach have to save money so we dont get to schedule teams outside of NE. Im jealous of the Montana/NDSU games and the UNI/Eastern Washington games. That doesnt happen in the CAA. If the NCAA would pay up and not have regionalization I would get more excitement out of it.
If UNH would pay up you would get more excitement out of it.


Don't punish teams that have to travel cross country to get an OOC game, because we don't have 80 teams within a 300 mile radius like the east coasters, so you can have variety in your schedule come playoff time.

You want to play a big name from another part of the country? Don't be a cheap ass athletic department. Make a couple calls. Schedule some home and homes. Don't be afraid of an OOC challenge.

Using UNI as an example...OOC games the last couple years

2015:
vs EWU (return game at EWU next year
@ Cal Poly (return game at UNI in 2017)

2014:
@ Hawaii
vs Northern Colorado
vs Tennessee Tech

2013:
vs Drake (first time in 8 years playing a school 2 hours away)
@ Northern Colorado
vs McNeese State

2012:
@ Wisconsin
vs Central State (OH)


2011:
@ Stephen F Austin
vs Southern Utah (had a H/H return game in 2012 that was bought out by Wiscons)

2010:
vs Stephan F Austin

2009:
vs South Dakota
vs St Francis (PA)

2008:
@ BYU
vs South Dakota
vs Nicholls St

2007:
vs. Minnesota State-Mankato
@ South Dakota State
@ Drake

2006:
@ Drake
vs North Dakota
vs South Dakota State

2005:
vs Drake
vs Minnesota-Duluth
vs Northern Arizona

2004:
vs Stephen F Austin
vs Minnesota State-Mankato
@ Northern Arizona

2003:
vs Northern Michigan
@ Stephen F Austin
vs Northwetern St (LA)

2002:
vs Wayne St (MI)
@ Oklahoma State
vs Stephen F Austin
@ Cal Poly



It's not hard to get quality, name brand, opponents on your schedule if you're willing to leave a 100 mile radius of your campus and set up some H/H or 2/1 deals. Finding a couple quality schools to rotate though H/H is big as well. UNI has SFA, McNeese State, Cal Poly, SUU, UNCo, NAU, EWU...mostly Big Sky and SLC teams. The playoffs aren't about "getting schedule diversity"

[FargoBison]

IMO, 32 is best number. Everybody plays in round one.

Would rather have a poll decide the champ then that.

A 32 team playoff would be a farce, the playoff right now is almost too big.

[lionsrking2]

I agree the field should be seeded but disagree with the notion there wouldn't be an incentive to do well in the regular season if it weren't. Good teams find a way to play hard every week, regardless of what they're playing for. If you need incentive to win a football game, you're probably not playoff worthy to begin with.

[lionsrking2]

I 100% disagree. Anything less is a farce in my view.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why wouldn't there be an incentive to have home-field advantage through the semis?

[FargoBison]

I 100% disagree. Anything less is a farce in my view.

Football is way too physical to have a five game playoff, at that point it starts to become more about who can avoid significant injuries then a real tournament to decide the best team.

[Mattymc727]

If UNH would pay up you would get more excitement out of it.


Don't punish teams that have to travel cross country to get an OOC game, because we don't have 80 teams within a 300 mile radius like the east coasters, so you can have variety in your schedule come playoff time.

You want to play a big name from another part of the country? Don't be a cheap ass athletic department. Make a couple calls. Schedule some home and homes. Don't be afraid of an OOC challenge.

Using UNI as an example...OOC games the last couple years

2015:
vs EWU (return game at EWU next year
@ Cal Poly (return game at UNI in 2017)

2014:
@ Hawaii
vs Northern Colorado
vs Tennessee Tech

2013:
vs Drake (first time in 8 years playing a school 2 hours away)
@ Northern Colorado
vs McNeese State

2012:
@ Wisconsin
vs Central State (OH)


2011:
@ Stephen F Austin
vs Southern Utah (had a H/H return game in 2012 that was bought out by Wiscons)

2010:
vs Stephan F Austin

2009:
vs South Dakota
vs St Francis (PA)

2008:
@ BYU
vs South Dakota
vs Nicholls St

2007:
vs. Minnesota State-Mankato
@ South Dakota State
@ Drake

2006:
@ Drake
vs North Dakota
vs South Dakota State

2005:
vs Drake
vs Minnesota-Duluth
vs Northern Arizona

2004:
vs Stephen F Austin
vs Minnesota State-Mankato
@ Northern Arizona

2003:
vs Northern Michigan
@ Stephen F Austin
vs Northwetern St (LA)

2002:
vs Wayne St (MI)
@ Oklahoma State
vs Stephen F Austin
@ Cal Poly



It's not hard to get quality, name brand, opponents on your schedule if you're willing to leave a 100 mile radius of your campus and set up some H/H or 2/1 deals. Finding a couple quality schools to rotate though H/H is big as well. UNI has SFA, McNeese State, Cal Poly, SUU, UNCo, NAU, EWU...mostly Big Sky and SLC teams. The playoffs aren't about "getting schedule diversity"

It just aint gonna happen with a simple phone call to the AD for UNH, Maine and others. Football isnt the biggest priority and if the department can save money by going to Mass on bus rather than fly to the midwest, its going to. As you said a lot of teams out west have to travel OOC as a necessity. Two different worlds. However, if the NCAA paid for playoff travel, none of this would matter....Playoffs get everyone on the same page with one goal, regardless of cash on hand.

I think the injury aspect is a very valid point, the more weeks for playoffs, the more injuries.

[clenz]

It just aint gonna happen with a simple phone call to the AD for UNH, Maine and others. Football isnt the biggest priority and if the department can save money by going to Mass on bus rather than fly to the midwest, its going to. As you said a lot of teams out west have to travel OOC as a necessity. Two different worlds. However, if the NCAA paid for playoff travel, none of this would matter....Playoffs get everyone on the same page with one goal, regardless of cash on hand.

I think the injury aspect is a very valid point, the more weeks for playoffs, the more injuries.
If UNH's priority is to only have schedule diversity if the NCAA foots the bill that's not our problem. It's not our fault the UNH's and Maine's of the world are too cheap/poor to play OOC games out of the far NE corner of the US. The playoffs aren't about getting your fans a chance to see teams you've never seen before.

How do you know it isn't that simple? Has your AD tried, and I mean actually tried? You'd be amazed at how quickly places like NDSU, UNI, Montana, EWU, Cal Poly, McNeese State, SFA, etc... can find open spots in their schedules for quality opponents they can sell to their fan base.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Does the NCAA pay for champ/playoff travel for any other sport?

[MR. CHICKEN]

If UNH would pay up you would get more excitement out of it.


Don't punish teams that have to travel cross country to get an OOC game, because we don't have 80 teams within a 300 mile radius like the east coasters, so you can have variety in your schedule come playoff time.

You want to play a big name from another part of the country? Don't be a cheap ass athletic department. Make a couple calls. Schedule some home and homes. Don't be afraid of an OOC challenge.

Using UNI as an example...OOC games the last couple years

2015:
vs EWU (return game at EWU next year
@ Cal Poly (return game at UNI in 2017)

2014:
@ Hawaii
vs Northern Colorado
vs Tennessee Tech

2013:
vs Drake (first time in 8 years playing a school 2 hours away)
@ Northern Colorado
vs McNeese State

2012:
@ Wisconsin
vs Central State (OH)


2011:
@ Stephen F Austin
vs Southern Utah (had a H/H return game in 2012 that was bought out by Wiscons)

2010:
vs Stephan F Austin

2009:
vs South Dakota
vs St Francis (PA)

2008:
@ BYU
vs South Dakota
vs Nicholls St

2007:
vs. Minnesota State-Mankato
@ South Dakota State
@ Drake

2006:
@ Drake
vs North Dakota
vs South Dakota State

2005:
vs Drake
vs Minnesota-Duluth
vs Northern Arizona

2004:
vs Stephen F Austin
vs Minnesota State-Mankato
@ Northern Arizona

2003:
vs Northern Michigan
@ Stephen F Austin
vs Northwetern St (LA)

2002:
vs Wayne St (MI)
@ Oklahoma State
vs Stephen F Austin
@ Cal Poly



It's not hard to get quality, name brand, opponents on your schedule if you're willing to leave a 100 mile radius of your campus and set up some H/H or 2/1 deals. Finding a couple quality schools to rotate though H/H is big as well. UNI has SFA, McNeese State, Cal Poly, SUU, UNCo, NAU, EWU...mostly Big Sky and SLC teams. The playoffs aren't about "getting schedule diversity"

20702.......APPX......1600 MILES FROM CEDAR FALLS...TO SAN LUIS OBISPO.......APPX.....950.......CEDAR FALLS....TA VILLANOVA.....SEEMS YA WANNA PLAY TOP TEAMS.....YA'S COOD GO EAST....xshhhx.....AWK!

[Bisonoline]

I love the 24 team format. I understand talent gets diluted quite a bit in the back, but its our one chance to see great inter conference match-ups (I understand they have screwed that up too) that wouldnt happen otherwise. Heck, I might add a few teams....

If changes were to be made, it should be in stopping the regionalization and seeding 1-24

We would then Have a true playoff the way it should be.

[clenz]

20702.......APPX......1600 MILES FROM CEDAR FALLS...TO SAN LUIS OBISPO.......APPX.....950.......CEDAR FALLS....TA VILLANOVA.....SEEMS YA WANNA PLAY TOP TEAMS.....YA'S COOD GO EAST....xshhhx.....AWK!
If you aren't willing to come west we aren't going east.

UNI is on record as sayi ng they'll play anyone as long as the other party is willing to come here.

The fact UNI is willing to go to California, Washington, Texas and Louisiana should prove that.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Mattymc727]

If UNH's priority is to only have schedule diversity if the NCAA foots the bill that's not our problem. It's not our fault the UNH's and Maine's of the world are too cheap/poor to play OOC games out of the far NE corner of the US. The playoffs aren't about getting your fans a chance to see teams you've never seen before.

How do you know it isn't that simple? Has your AD tried, and I mean actually tried? You'd be amazed at how quickly places like NDSU, UNI, Montana, EWU, Cal Poly, McNeese State, SFA, etc... can find open spots in their schedules for quality opponents they can sell to their fan base.

I have no idea. I am not affiliated with the athletic department in any way. I dont know what UNH's priorities are for playoff format. All I know is what I would like to see as a fan. Its not the right answer, but my opinion. Hence why I voiced it on a fan forum.

Looking at UNH's ten year history with OOC scheduling it seems that there hasnt been much attempt to go outside of New England. I believe there was a time when UNH did go to Cal-Davis in 2006 or so, but thats the only outlier I could think of.

[Pinnum]

Does the NCAA pay for champ/playoff travel for any other sport?

Yes.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If memory serves it works like this:

The visiting teams, and both teams headed to Frisco, get some money from the NCAA to help offset travel costs for the team and members of the travel party. This money is in addition to what the host schools pay to "guarantee" the home game (if applicable) or the minimum required by the NCAA (if the team is a seed). The NCAA finances this partially from the gate the home team receives.

If memory also serves, even this modest amount of $ is a money-losing proposition for the NCAA, mostly because they essentially give away the TV rights for the FCSNCG.

[Pinnum]

If memory serves it works like this:

The visiting teams, and both teams headed to Frisco, get some money from the NCAA to help offset travel costs for the team and members of the travel party. This money is in addition to what the host schools pay to "guarantee" the home game (if applicable) or the minimum required by the NCAA (if the team is a seed). The NCAA finances this partially from the gate the home team receives.

If memory also serves, even this modest amount of $ is a money-losing proposition for the NCAA, mostly because they essentially give away the TV rights for the FCSNCG.

The NCAA covers all championship travel expenses for every sport. (For FCS football the NCAA will book and pay for the use of four charter busses if traveling 300 miles or less, otherwise they pay for flights).

The NCAA also provides per diems for everyone in the approved traveling part which in FCS is $130 per person. They allow for up to 145 people to get 2.5 days of per diem for the championship game's traveling party.

[Bisonoline]

The NCAA covers all championship travel expenses for every sport. (For FCS football the NCAA will book and pay for the use of four charter busses if traveling 300 miles or less, otherwise they pay for flights).

The NCAA also provides per diems for everyone in the approved traveling part which in FCS is $130 per person. They allow for up to 145 people to get 2.5 days of per diem for the championship game's traveling party.

I knew they paid the travel expenses. But thanks for the details I didnt know.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Part of the funding for the expenses comes from the guarantees from the host schools, though. It is not 100% covered by the NCAA.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/680-while-bowls-struggle-to-sell-out-fcs-championship-sells-out-in-days


From the first round of the FCS playoffs all the way to the semifinals, home facilities from the schools involved host the games. Schools can host games either by qualifying as seeds, guaranteeing a home game, or bidding for home games if they are unseeded.

"(The NCAA is) renting our facility, not dissimilar to a concert,” Peter Fields, Montana State's athletic director, recently explained.

"Each of the top four seeds in the FCS playoffs host at least one game," the Bozeman Chronicle continues. "The schools are required to submit bids for each game. Bids detail game day costs, Fields said. For example, he said MSU’s bid included the anticipated cost of snow removal, in addition to the costs of providing security, public address announcers and other expenses that go along with a football game. The NCAA then reimburses the university for those costs, while taking a portion of ticket sales. A percentage of the gate, about a third, goes back to the university, Fields said."

Unlike the teams losing money in mid-tier bowls, Montana State actually made about $50,000 in each of the two rounds of the playoffs they hosted, their second-round game against Stony Brook and their quarterfinal game against Sam Houston State, thanks to the NCAA's support.

Now if you're seeded, you can bid the minimum, since there's no competition.

[Pinnum]

Part of the funding for the expenses comes from the guarantees from the host schools, though. It is not 100% covered by the NCAA.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/680-while-bowls-struggle-to-sell-out-fcs-championship-sells-out-in-days


Now if you're seeded, you can bid the minimum, since there's no competition.

I didn't read the article but hosts don't pay anything towards travel.

The NCAA solicits bids to host the championship and then awards the championships based on the best bid. The NCAA could find the best bid to be $5MM paid to host the championship game. In that case the money would go into the Championship fund as general revenue. They also could get a year where the best bid is $20k and they take that money into the Championship fund as general revenue.

No matter what the host package includes, the NCAA will cover the traveling expenses. Travel expenses are not contingent on bidding. It is important to think of the origins of associations like the NCAA, NJCAA, NAIA, and others. Member schools pay dues for the associations to sponsor championships and establish consistent rules. Part of those dues are used to cover championship. So even if Southern University doesn't play in the FCS championship tournament, their D1-AA dues would provide for the ability to pay for the championship event.

Over the years, the quality of NCAA championships has drastically improved as events have moved off campuses and found quality venues with all of the pageantry that accompanies highly successful events. In addition, the NCAA has increased the expenses they allow to be reimbursed and the travel quality has improved. Any NCAA Championship, no matter the sport, is a great event!

However, currently there are only five NCAA championships that generate enough money from the event to pay for themselves (Baseball, Men's Basketball, Men's Ice Hockey, Lacrosse, and Wrestling). Note: A championship includes all rounds, not just the championship game. All of the other championships must be subsidized. However, unlike the NAIA, USCAA, or other associations, the money to subsidize championships no longer comes from membership dues. The increase in quality has been subsidized by the revenue from the NCAA basketball TV money which allocates a portion every year to the Championship fund. All revenues from championships go into the championship fund. So if FCS were to make a profit they wouldn't go to revenue sharing but it would go into the general fund which would help pay for a field hockey team to fly to the national championship or pay for a facility for the tennis championship.

[Bisonoline]

Part of the funding for the expenses comes from the guarantees from the host schools, though. It is not 100% covered by the NCAA.

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/ncaa-division-i-sports/fcs-football/680-while-bowls-struggle-to-sell-out-fcs-championship-sells-out-in-days



Now if you're seeded, you can bid the minimum, since there's no competition.

There is a lot of misinformation in that article. I went to the Orange Bowk one year. Got the tickets through Iowa. I didnt have to stay at any disignated hotel. Now if you are doing the packages that a different story because they are locked in to a contract..The school having to pay for unused hotel rooms depends on the schools and how they contracted them.
Plus the conferences now covers the tab for unsold tickets. Thats covered by the bowl money pool.
I suggest you do your research on how the FCS pays for the playoffs. You might want to start by going to the NCAA site. Youre off base.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There is a lot of misinformation in that article. I went to the Orange Bowk one year. Got the tickets through Iowa. I didnt have to stay at any disignated hotel. Now if you are doing the packages that a different story because they are locked in to a contract..The school having to pay for unused hotel rooms depends on the schools and how they contracted them.
Plus the conferences now covers the tab for unsold tickets. Thats covered by the bowl money pool.
I suggest you do your research on how the FCS pays for the playoffs. You might want to start by going to the NCAA site. Youre off base.

This article is a few years old and it's possible the bowl rules have changed for a specific bowl, but you then go on to say that the packages have locked-in contracts... isn't the definition of that the schools need to foot the bill?

Conferences vary. Perhaps in the new world conferences cover those costs, but I'm sure not all of them do.

But don't take my word for it...

http://jmusports.com/news/2014/12/9/Athletics_1209140954.aspx?mobile=skip


The media will share the very real details of our financial bid. First and foremost, please know that we submitted our bid with the expectation that we would use private athletics sources to cover any difference between the guarantee of $200,677.50 and game-day operational expenses of $152,330 that are not covered through ticket sales. Hosting NCAA playoff games is important because it is our responsibility to put the Dukes in the best position to compete and win.

It's important to note the process used to develop the final guarantee. The NCAA uses a formula to calculate an institution's guarantee based on submitted revenues and expenses. Then upon final settlement, we must show actuals in relation to the submitted numbers.

Additionally, a home game allowed us to reduce expenses across the entire spectrum of our programs that would have been normally associated with an away playoff game. While the NCAA provides reimbursement for a prescribed travel party for the team, it does not cover a wide array of people and support groups associated with the University. The Marching Royal Dukes, spirit squads and our students are among many groups that would have had additional expenses for a game away from Bridgeforth Stadium.

To recap: the SCHOOL pays the NCAA a GUARANTEE. The NCAA then reimburses the school for travel, game-day expenses, etc. Basically, the schools pay the NCAA, and the NCAA reimburses some of those costs.

Hence, "Part of the funding for the expenses comes from the guarantees from the host schools, though."

[clenz]

This article is a few years old and it's possible the bowl rules have changed for a specific bowl, but you then go on to say that the packages have locked-in contracts... isn't the definition of that the schools need to foot the bill?

Conferences vary. Perhaps in the new world conferences cover those costs, but I'm sure not all of them do.

But don't take my word for it...

http://jmusports.com/news/2014/12/9/Athletics_1209140954.aspx?mobile=skip



To recap: the SCHOOL pays the NCAA a GUARANTEE. The NCAA then reimburses the school for travel, game-day expenses, etc. Basically, the schools pay the NCAA, and the NCAA reimburses some of those costs.

Hence, "Part of the funding for the expenses comes from the guarantees from the host schools, though."
The Iowa Orange Bowl was 09

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Iowa Orange Bowl was 09

Additionally, the article was talking about a full-blown trip in 2012 to the Orange Bowl, complete with round-trip flights, hotel rooms, game, meals, etc. If you have an issue with that number, you can take that up with the Daily Press.

http://articles.dailypress.com/2012-12-15/sports/dp-spt-tech-bowl-ticket-sales-1216-20121215_1_tech-fans-bowl-ticket-sales-virginia-tech

[Bisonoline]

This article is a few years old and it's possible the bowl rules have changed for a specific bowl, but you then go on to say that the packages have locked-in contracts... isn't the definition of that the schools need to foot the bill?

Conferences vary. Perhaps in the new world conferences cover those costs, but I'm sure not all of them do.

But don't take my word for it...

http://jmusports.com/news/2014/12/9/Athletics_1209140954.aspx?mobile=skip



To recap: the SCHOOL pays the NCAA a GUARANTEE. The NCAA then reimburses the school for travel, game-day expenses, etc. Basically, the schools pay the NCAA, and the NCAA reimburses some of those costs.

Hence, "Part of the funding for the expenses comes from the guarantees from the host schools, though."



I should have clarified. The contracts are the travel agencies who work in conjunction with the university to promote full travel packages for its fans as in tickets, rooms and travel.

The only arrangement I know of that are locked in is when a team goes to a bowl game the accommodations are already set up for the visiting schools team and who are travelling with them.

So you have extrapolated your final conclusion out of the information that was provided to you and spun it to some how show you were right in your original premise? Wow. Hey what ever puffs your cheeto.

[CHIP72]

I love the 24 team format. I understand talent gets diluted quite a bit in the back, but its our one chance to see great inter conference match-ups (I understand they have screwed that up too) that wouldnt happen otherwise.

I also personally like the field at 24 teams, though I think anything above that would be getting too large. (The minimum number of teams I think the playoffs should have is 20 teams; anything below that is too small IMO.) As it is right now, a little less than 20% of the schools in Division I-AA make the playoffs. That is actually a similar ratio to what exists for the NCAA Basketball Tournament (and the ratios would still be similar even if the NCAA Tournament still had 64 teams).

As a frame of reference, Division II has a 24 team field (that actually is probably a little too small relative to the number of schools) and Division III has a 32 team field (which is probably too small relative to the number of schools and teams with excellent records that don't make then playoffs).

Incidentally, even though there are a similar number of teams in Division I-A as there are in Division I-AA right now, I wouldn't advocate for a 24 team playoff field in I-A/FBS. I think the ideal number of playoff teams in Division I-A is 12 or 16 (preferably the latter).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So in conclusion.... host schools need to pay the NCAA a guarantee to get home playoff games. If I'm a school, I make a check out for (say) $200K to host the game, made out to the NCAA, which they put in the "FCS Championship fund".

Then the NCAA takes a check later of the actual expenses, say, $150,000, and gives it back to the school. The NCAA also then pays the visiting school from this same fund (where this check goes).

If memory serves the NCAA also takes a fraction of the "gate" and puts it in this fund as well.

(Numbers are the public ones from JMU's aborted bid.)

I fail to see what's so complicated. The NCAA isn't financing the championship completely out of their own pockets from, say, NCAA Tournament TV money. A significant portion of the money is getting paid by the schools themselves. That money is turned around in this "fund" and goes to (among other things) visiting teams' travel. I fail to see how people think what I'm saying is wrong, or complicated.

[Bisonoline]

So in conclusion.... host schools need to pay the NCAA a guarantee to get home playoff games. If I'm a school, I make a check out for (say) $200K to host the game, made out to the NCAA, which they put in the "FCS Championship fund".

Then the NCAA takes a check later of the actual expenses, say, $150,000, and gives it back to the school. The NCAA also then pays the visiting school from this same fund (where this check goes).

If memory serves the NCAA also takes a fraction of the "gate" and puts it in this fund as well.

(Numbers are the public ones from JMU's aborted bid.)

I fail to see what's so complicated. The NCAA isn't financing the championship completely out of their own pockets from, say, NCAA Tournament TV money. A significant portion of the money is getting paid by the schools themselves. That money is turned around in this "fund" and goes to (among other things) visiting teams' travel. I fail to see how people think what I'm saying is wrong, or complicated.

YOU are the one making it complicated as usual. You keep saying they take money from this fund put it in that fund then money comes from another fund etc. So why dont you just admitt that you dont know what the percentages are and what the guarantee is. Its seems you also dont know how the bidding process works.

So here is a little information to TRY and get you on the right track.

According to the 2012 championship handbook, it was 75% of the estimated net receipts. At least it is if I'm reading it right. Here's the quote:

Site Selection
With regard to first-round, second-round, quarterfinal and semifinal sites, in addition to the criteria listed in Bylaw 31.1.3.2.1, the NCAA Division I Football Championship Committee shall consider the following additional criteria when selecting playoff sites:
1. Prospective host institutions must submit the following minimum financial guarantees, which shall be 75 percent of the estimated net receipts as submitted on the proposed budget:
 First round – $30,000
 Second round – $30,000
 Quarterfinal – $40,000
 Semifinal – $50,000
2. If the minimum financial guarantees are met, the committee will award the playoff sites to the top five seeded teams.


http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/...B_OEM_ID=12300 (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/div1aaaada/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/adminguidelines.pdf?CONTENT_ID=251746&DB_OEM_ID=12300)

[CHIP72]

I think the complicated thing about what LFN is saying above is he's discussing both Division I-A/FBS bowl games and Division I-AA/FCS playoff games, which have different financial commitment requirements (and different ways the financial commitments are calculated).

[clenz]

I think the complicated thing about what LFN is saying above is he's discussing both Division I-A/FBS bowl games and Division I-AA/FCS playoff games, which have different financial commitment requirements (and different ways the financial commitments are calculated).
Re: making a mountain out of a molehill and while comparing apples to sugar beets to make a convoluted point just so he can continue to argue.


Sounds about right

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Pinnum]

No, the NCAA is not funding the championship completely out of their pockets. Though they have always subsidized it. Per Diems alone eat up the guarantees.

Honestly, I am not sure what is even being debated here...

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Re: making a mountain out of a molehill and while comparing apples to sugar beets to make a convoluted point just so he can continue to argue.


Sounds about right

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

That sounds so familiar, who does that sound like...ah well it will come to me I'm sure.:D

[clenz]

That sounds so familiar, who does that sound like...ah well it will come to me I'm sure.:D
Oh...um....I think he lived at an airport, or something like that, right?


Damn, what was his name?

[Bisonoline]

Oh...um....I think he lived at an airport, or something like that, right?


Damn, what was his name?



I was thinking the same thing but you know what happens if you say his name 3 times in a row? Think BEETLEJUICE. Don't say it!!!!!!!

[clenz]

Oh...um....I think he lived at an airport, or something like that, right?


Damn, what was his name?



I was thinking the same thing but you know what happens if you say his name 3 times in a row? Think BEETLEJUICE. Don't say it!!!!!!!
This is true

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Shame on me for trying to correct people who 1) elect not to read and 2) try to characterize my original article is inaccurate, which it is not.

[Bisonoline]

Shame on me for trying to correct people who 1) elect not to read and 2) try to characterize my original article is inaccurate, which it is not.


xcoffeex xthumbsupx