PATSY RATINGS 2015 - LEHIGH

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-2015-patsy-ratings-lehighs-class-of.html

PATSY RATINGS With 3 To Go:

71 LEHIGH
64 LAFAYETTE
58 HOLY CROSS
55 COLGATE

All will be subject to one final revision once the Committee is done.

[RichH2]

As much as I like LU's class wish I could disagree with rating. Lots of A-S recruits not many *s.

[Gater]

I don't understand how Dominick Bragalone doesn't get at least a couple of stars from recruiting services. Kid has incredible balance, runs through every arm tackle, and has a verified 4.49 40. Of all of the running backs at the NFL combine, two were faster than him. I know he didn't play against the toughest competition but he made them look like 5th graders. Kid rushed for 4,716 yards and 67 touchdowns at 14.9 yards a carry in his senior year. That's insane (and the most yards rushing in the country since 1950).

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/1718513/dominick-bragalone

[DatDude]

Lol. That was a hand time. They use lasers at the combine. Add .25 to the time. 4.74 is more like it. He should run thru arm tackles when everyone is smaller than him! Hence his BIG numbers and no BIG offers. You think ALL the BCS coaches are idiots? Even the MAC schools didnt offer. LU took a gamble. He wont beat out the RB they signed from GA...IMO

[RichH2]

His actual time at PSU combine was 4.37. A sparq event. The other published times for him are 4.46and 4.47. Good enuf for me. BTW,the hand timed disparity can be plus or minus depending on the individual clockers. Suffice it to say he is very fast.
Agree tho,Brisker may have an edge as he faced a much higher level of competition in HS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

People are discounting the kid from NY, the converted QB Nick Thevagayam, in the RB mix. I think he might surprise some people, too.

[RichH2]

Not really. Overall,probably the most athletic of the 3. A coverted QB who must adapt vs serious talent. Very fluid with very good movement.

[bison137]

His actual time at PSU combine was 4.37. A sparq event. The other published times for him are 4.46 and 4.47. Good enuf for me. BTW,the hand timed disparity can be plus or minus depending on the individual clockers. Suffice it to say he is very fast.



It is possible for a handheld time to be slower - but that would be extremely rare. Note that at the NFL combine, and very likely these sparq events, the starts are all handheld but one of the times uses an electronic finish. It is hard to have an electronic start the way these events are timed since there is no gun - the player simply starts running whenever he feels like it and then the clock starts. Thus no runner's reaction time, as you have in track - just a timer's reaction time.

BTW, the official conversion factor used for HS track and many other meets is to add 0.24 to any pure handheld time to convert to the equivalent fully automated time (FAT) for the sprints. The 0.24 was the average difference in times when they had runners timed with both methods.

[Gangtackle11]

It is possible for a handheld time to be slower - but that would be extremely rare. Note that at the NFL combine, and very likely these sparq events, the starts are all handheld but one of the times uses an electronic finish. It is hard to have an electronic start the way these events are timed since there is no gun - the player simply starts running whenever he feels like it and then the clock starts. Thus no runner's reaction time, as you have in track - just a timer's reaction time.

BTW, the official conversion factor used for HS track and many other meets is to add 0.24 to any pure handheld time to convert to the equivalent fully automated time (FAT) for the sprints. The 0.24 was the average difference in times when they had runners timed with both methods.

Fastest 40-yard hand/electric times (Started by hand, stopped by beam)
Time starts on player's first movement
ET Time,(HH time) Player, Position, College, Year, * - Underclassman
4.24 - (4.24) Chris Johnson, (RB), East Carolina - 2008
4.26 - (4.16) Dri Archer, (WR), Kent State - 2014
4.27 - (4.21) Marquise Goodwin (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1726379/marquise-goodwin), (WR), Texas - 2013
4.28 - (4.22) Jacoby Ford (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1114251/jacoby-ford), (WR), Clemson - 2010
4.28 - (4.25) Demarcus Van Dyke, (CB), Miami - 2011
4.30 - (4.25) *Darrius Heyward-Bey (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/564881/darrius-heyward-bey), (WR), Maryland - 2009
4.32 - (4.26) Jerome Mathis, (WR), Hampton - 2005
4.33 - (4.29) *Fabian Washington (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/423199/fabian-washington), (CB), Nebraska - 2005
4.33 - (4.28) Mike Wallace (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/559250/mike-wallace), (WR), Mississippi - 2009
4.33 - (4.29) Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1248550/dominique-rodgers-cromartie), (CB), Tennessee State - 2008
4.33 - (4.29) *Josh Robinson (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1681961/josh-robinson), (CB), Central Florida - 2012
4.34 - (4.21) Trindon Holliday (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/558554/trindon-holliday), (WR), LSU - 2010
4.34 - (4.28) Ryan Swope (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1700943/ryan-swope), (WR), Texas A&M - 2013
4.34 - (4.28) Tavon Austin (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664558/tavon-austin), (WR), West Virginia - 2013
4.34 - (4.28) Onterio McCalebb (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1707290/onterio-mccalebb), (RB), Auburn - 2013
4.34 - (4.29) Johnny Knox (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1661887/johnny-knox), (WR), Abilene Christian - 2009
4.34 - (4.30) Darrent Williams, (CB), Oklahoma State - 2005
4.34 - (4.31) *Patrick Peterson (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1632296/patrick-peterson), (CB), LSU - 2011
4.35 - (4.30) Yamon Figurs (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/517646/yamon-figurs), (WR), Kansas State - 2007
4.36 - (4.28) *Stephen Hill (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1665228/stephen-hill), (WR), Georgia Tech - 2012
4.37 - (4.27) C.J. Spiller (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1127382/cj-spiller), (RB), Clemson - 2010
4.37 - (4.31) Justin Gilbert (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1630315/justin-gilbert), (CB), Oklahoma State - 2014
4.39 - (4.27) Stanford Routt (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/419954/stanford-routt), (CB), Houston - 2005
4.40 - (4.30) Mike Thomas (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/565792/mike-thomas), (WR), Arizona - 2009
4.43 - (4.31) Taylor Mays (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1117496/taylor-mays), (FS), Southern Cal - 2010

Fastest 40-yard hand-held times (Started, stopped by hand)
Time starts on player's first movement
HH Time,(ET time) Player, Position, College, Year, * - Underclassman
4.16 - (4.26) Dri Archer, (WR), Kent State - 2014
4.21 - (4.27) Marquise Goodwin, (WR), Texas - 2013
4.21 - (4.34) Trindon Holliday, (WR), LSU - 2010
4.22 - (4.28) Jacoby Ford, (WR), Clemson - 2010
4.24 - (4.24) Chris Johnson, (RB), East Carolina - 2008
4.25 - (4.28) Demarcus Van Dyke, (CB), Miami - 2011
4.25 - (4.30) *Darrius Heyward-Bey, (WR), Maryland - 2009
4.26 - (4.32) Jerome Mathis, (WR), Hampton - 2005
4.27 - (4.37) C.J. Spiller, (RB), Clemson - 2010
4.27 - (4.39) Stanford Routt, (CB), Houston - 2005
4.28 - (4.33) Mike Wallace, (WR), Mississippi - 2009
4.28 - (4.34) Ryan Swope, (WR), Texas A&M - 2013
4.28 - (4.34) Tavon Austin, (WR), West Virginia - 2013
4.28 - (4.34) Onterio McCalebb, (RB), Auburn - 2013
4.28 - (4.36) *Stephen Hill, (WR), Georgia Tech - 2012
4.29 - (4.33) *Fabian Washington, (CB), Nebraska - 2005
4.29 - (4.33) Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, (CB), Tennessee State - 2008
4.29 - (4.33) *Josh Robinson, (CB), Central Florida - 2012
4.29 - (4.34) Johnny Knox, (WR), Abilene Christian - 2009
4.30 - (4.34) Darrent Williams, (CB), Oklahoma State - 2005
4.30 - (4.35) Yamon Figurs, (WR), Kansas State - 2007
4.30 - (4.40) Mike Thomas, (WR), Arizona - 2009
4.31 - (4.34) *Patrick Peterson, (CB), LSU - 2011
4.31 - (4.37) Justin Gilbert, (CB), Oklahoma State - 2014
4.31 - (4.43) Taylor Mays, (FS), Southern Cal - 2010

I know general consensus is the .24 difference between HH & FAT times. The list below shows top NFL times through 2014 with HH & FAT times compared. The times are much closer than the .24 difference that is generally accepted as the rule. Only 6 of the top 25 times are >.1 difference with the biggest difference at .13 (Trindon Holliday WR -LSU 2010)

*noted that the time starts on player's 1st movement & is started by a human.

Just sayin'

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That great chart kinda shows how important 40 times are to NFL teams. Including two FCS players that have had pretty good careers in the NFL, CB Jerome Mathis and CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lol. That was a hand time. They use lasers at the combine. Add .25 to the time. 4.74 is more like it. He should run thru arm tackles when everyone is smaller than him! Hence his BIG numbers and no BIG offers. You think ALL the BCS coaches are idiots? Even the MAC schools didnt offer. LU took a gamble. He wont beat out the RB they signed from GA...IMO

They didn't offer him as a RB or at all? I'm not big on recruiting but Bragalone is legit regardless of competition. Even so, A and AA football in PA is pretty darn good. I will go out on a limb and say that barring injury that Bragalone will have an excellent college career. Brisker and Bragalone will give the Mountain Hawks their best RB duo since Pleasant and Burcher or Jean/Baker.

[RichH2]

Dude just being Dude.Unless Bragalone is the ROY,he will tell us I told you so. Bit surprised about all the flap over RBs. All 3 are good gets but not the best O weapons Andy brought in. Brad Mayes QB and Luke Christiano WR.are both difference makers. And both had multiple high level offers.

[Southsider]

They didn't offer him as a RB or at all? I'm not big on recruiting but Bragalone is legit regardless of competition. Even so, A and AA football in PA is pretty darn good. I will go out on a limb and say that barring injury that Bragalone will have an excellent college career. Brisker and Bragalone will give the Mountain Hawks their best RB duo since Pleasant and Burcher or Jean/Baker.

This kid never did squat............Jean & Baker were fun to watch for sure. Of course, there was Rizzo & Diorio..........

[van]

This kid never did squat............Jean & Baker were fun to watch for sure. Of course, there was Rizzo & Diorio..........

ah yes, fond memories of Rizzo and Diorio in Taylor Stadium

[RichH2]

This kid never did squat............Jean & Baker were fun to watch for sure. Of course, there was Rizzo & Diorio..........

What a duo. Fond memoy of Rizzo's 300yd game :)

[LU73]

What made that game totally ridiculous was that Diorio had over 200 yards in the SAME game! And of course, it all came at the expense of Lafayette.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This kid never did squat............Jean & Baker were fun to watch for sure. Of course, there was Rizzo & Diorio..........

Pretty sure my friends and I were in the stands yelling "BAKER, THE TOUCHDOWN MAKER"... :) Good times

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

This kid never did squat............Jean & Baker were fun to watch for sure. Of course, there was Rizzo & Diorio..........

Burcher had some good games and his speed complimented Pleasant well imo. Pleasant was a physical specimen...

Dave Wilson's tough, between the tackles running style jived well with Pugh in 2003 too.....

Rich, what type of player was Larry Arico coming out of high school? I remember him being a good athlete that fought for time with the E-Train. For some reason I have memories of Arico doing a lot of goal line and short yardages leaps over the pile. It's a shame his senior year was cut short.....

What type of interest did Erik Marsh receive out of Beca? I'm pretty sure Beca was AA when they won the state title. Even so, you knew he was going to be a very good to great college player. He was talented enough to big time college football imo...

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

What a duo. Fond memoy of Rizzo's 300yd game :)

I was there for Pugh's performance against Fordham in 2003. That was the best RB performance I've seen by a LU player. I wimped out and did not attend Abdullah's destruction of Cornell in 1995.

Ron Jean's overall game against Bucknell in 1999 is still the single best individual performance I've seen by a LU player. Josh Snyder against Colgate in 2001 is the second best. He would not let Luke and the team down despite receiving an incredible physical beating at the hands of a nasty Colgate D.

[RichH2]

Arico was tough as nails. Not fast or big,but agile and quick to the hole. He had a pretty good vertical leap too. :):)Rabih probably the best I've seen at LU. Rizzo a close second. My favorite was Jean. Just so much fun to watch. Shouldn't forget Gardner. Guy could do it all.

[carney2]

Attempting to steer this away from nostalgia and back to the subject at hand I throw out this OPINION to be smacked around:

This Lehigh recruiting class is no better than so-so. It has the QB of the future (and I'm betting really near future) - very important - and a lot of bodies. The second point says that if the mine is big enough, perhaps we'll find a diamond or two. With Fordham attempting to throw a permanent headlock on the Patriot League football championship, this group does not appear to have what it takes to lead the Squawks out of the wilderness.

So with the Patsies reported for 4 schools, what do we have?

HOLY CROSS - One good recruiting class (last year), and back to bottom feeding.

COLGATE - Dropping like a rock.

LAFAYETTE - Same-old, same-old for a program wallowing in mediocrity.

LEHIGH - Not looking like they want to be contenders anytime soon.

Not a great day for the Patriot League

[ngineer]

This kid never did squat............Jean & Baker were fun to watch for sure. Of course, there was Rizzo & Diorio..........

Actually, Burcher had a very good rookie season with a couple 100+yard games. Just wasn't ready for the demands of college AND football and had to leave.

[ngineer]

Yes, I go with Abdullah followed by Rizzo. Rizzo was like a runaway freight train. As a DB back then, I just groaned every time I saw the sweep coming my way. The best definition of a 'punishing' runner.

[RichH2]

Punishing runner ? Gotta go with Jon Rushatz. Lord that man could hit.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Attempting to steer this away from nostalgia and back to the subject at hand I throw out this OPINION to be smacked around:

This Lehigh recruiting class is no better than so-so. It has the QB of the future (and I'm betting really near future) - very important - and a lot of bodies. The second point says that if the mine is big enough, perhaps we'll find a diamond or two. With Fordham attempting to throw a permanent headlock on the Patriot League football championship, this group does not appear to have what it takes to lead the Squawks out of the wilderness.

So with the Patsies reported for 4 schools, what do we have?

HOLY CROSS - One good recruiting class (last year), and back to bottom feeding.

COLGATE - Dropping like a rock.

LAFAYETTE - Same-old, same-old for a program wallowing in mediocrity.

LEHIGH - Not looking like they want to be contenders anytime soon.

Not a great day for the Patriot League

The Patriot League, even with scholarships, has never been about pure talent. Obviously there's been individual stars but at the end of the day coaching and leadership needs to step-up in this league. Given the academic rigors these players face it's imperative to have a great support group from the head coach, assistants, trainers and advisors.

Scholarships were going to give these teams 2-5 guys a year that they likely wouldn't have to gotten under the old financial aid package. The rest of the guys are still 2nd to 4th tier college football players who don't have the luxury of red-shirting. It's on Coen, Tavani and Gilmore to get things turned around.

Colgate isn't sinking like a rock. They've never had the best athletes in the league, not by a mile. That's why they've struggled against scholarship programs. Once again it comes down to instilling that Biddle toughness/nastiness. It takes a certain type of recruit to embrace Hamilton, NY imo. That's not a knock on Colgate just a reality. Temple faces the same problems with its location.

[Sader87]

Attempting to steer this away from nostalgia and back to the subject at hand I throw out this OPINION to be smacked around:

This Lehigh recruiting class is no better than so-so. It has the QB of the future (and I'm betting really near future) - very important - and a lot of bodies. The second point says that if the mine is big enough, perhaps we'll find a diamond or two. With Fordham attempting to throw a permanent headlock on the Patriot League football championship, this group does not appear to have what it takes to lead the Squawks out of the wilderness.

So with the Patsies reported for 4 schools, what do we have?

HOLY CROSS - One good recruiting class (last year), and back to bottom feeding.

COLGATE - Dropping like a rock.

LAFAYETTE - Same-old, same-old for a program wallowing in mediocrity.

LEHIGH - Not looking like they want to be contenders anytime soon.

Not a great day for the Patriot League

I think it's still a bit premature to evaluate either the recruiting w/schollies or the programs themselves until maybe even after a couple years have passed where PL schools have had the full complement of scholarships in place....maybe by 2017 or 2018 or so.

[carney2]

I think it's still a bit premature to evaluate either the recruiting w/schollies or the programs themselves until maybe even after a couple years have passed where PL schools have had the full complement of scholarships in place....maybe by 2017 or 2018 or so.

All true and well stated, but we are in the here and now. Point me to the AGS thread that talks about the PL recruiting classes of 2010. 2011? 2012? 2013? years after the fact. The recruiting issue is only hot button once.

[Lehigh'98]

Yes, I go with Abdullah followed by Rizzo. Rizzo was like a runaway freight train. As a DB back then, I just groaned every time I saw the sweep coming my way. The best definition of a 'punishing' runner.

Abdullah, Jean & Baker were all outstanding RBs that I had the privilege of blocking for. Three very talented guys. Abdullah's game against Cornell in 95 or 96 at Goodman was one of the best games I've seen by a RB.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I think it's still a bit premature to evaluate either the recruiting w/schollies or the programs themselves until maybe even after a couple years have passed where PL schools have had the full complement of scholarships in place....maybe by 2017 or 2018 or so.

If anyone is expecting some sustained run of greatness they're fooling themselves. The reality is, it's tough for highly regarded private schools to be consistently good in D1 football. That includes Notre Dame. Look at Villanova's and Richmond's and more recently Furman's track record. They've been very good but also very bad at times. It's extremely difficult to nail class after class at these schools imo.

Since 1995 Villanova has averaged 7.5 wins. They've had 4 losing seasons, including a 2-9 nightmare in 2011 and 3-8 clunker in 1995. They've made the playoffs 8 times during that span with a national title. They also have two Payton winners. From 1998 through 2007 (10 seasons) they made the playoffs once via Brian Westbrook/Boden in 2002.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Since 1995 Villanova has averaged 7.5 wins. They've had 4 losing seasons, including a 2-9 nightmare in 2011 and 3-8 clunker in 1995. They've made the playoffs 8 times during that span with a national title. They also have two Payton winners. From 1998 through 2007 (10 seasons) they made the playoffs once via Brian Westbrook/Boden in 2002.

Add yearly wins against Lafayette, and sign me up for this.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Add yearly wins against Lafayette, and sign me up for this.

Lehigh's and Colgate's numbers aren't that far off from Villanova's or Richmond's. The difference is the latter two have had higher highs. Perhaps with 2-4 difference makers one of those late 90's, early 00's Lehigh teams makes a run to the semi's or finals. Likewise with the 2011 team. Lehigh, Colgate, Holy Cross, Fordham and Lafayette have all fielded really good FCS teams, but generally speaking they were all flawed against the real heavy hitters nationally. While I don't expect that to change completely I do think they league can/will produce a higher frequency of teams that are capable of winning 2+ playoff games with reasonable match-ups. If the stars align and the schedule falls right perhaps a 10 win PL team rides a magic carpet to the finals. Then anything is possible....

[RichH2]

Lehigh's and Colgate's numbers aren't that far off from Villanova's or Richmond's. The difference is the latter two have had higher highs. Perhaps with 2-4 difference makers one of those late 90's, early 00's Lehigh teams makes a run to the semi's or finals. Likewise with the 2011 team. Lehigh, Colgate, Holy Cross, Fordham and Lafayette have all fielded really good FCS teams, but generally speaking they were all flawed against the real heavy hitters nationally. While I don't expect that to change completely I do think they league can/will produce a higher frequency of teams that are capable of winning 2+ playoff games with reasonable match-ups. If the stars align and the schedule falls right perhaps a 10 win PL team rides a magic carpet to the finals. Then anything is possible....
Think this will indeed be the scenario for PL going forward. Team up- down cycles will as usual be a factor in PL competition. Hopefully for LU long good runs and short down cycles.

[Sader87]

Actually, I'm pretty pumped about the future of PL football. I don't think there's another FCS conference in the country that can improve as dramatically as the PL in the next few years. Not saying the PL will be a "power FCS conference" but they very much should be in the mix.....way, way much more than they have been anyway.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Actually, I'm pretty pumped about the future of PL football. I don't think there's another FCS conference in the country that can improve as dramatically as the PL in the next few years. Not saying the PL will be a "power FCS conference" but they very much should be in the mix.....way, way much more than they have been anyway.

They Patriot League has not been some dreg conference. Homerism aside, it's faired pretty well since its inception. There have been lulls from '92-'98 and '06-'10 but generally speaking it has produced very good FCS teams. There were excellent Holy Cross teams in the late 80's led by a Heisman Finalist along with the first Payton winner at Colgate. Lehigh bursted on the scene in the late 90's embarking on a 8 year stretch of being ranked in the Top 25 more often than not. While LU was doing that, Colgate was having some very solid teams culminating with the Raiders Finals appearance. In fact, in 2002 Lehigh started the season ranked #2 iirc while Colgate finished 2003 ranked #2. That's pretty impressive from a respect earned and respect given perspective. Lafayette earned the respect of App State in 2005, likewise with Holy Cross in 2009 and their performance against Villanova. Lehigh then put together some really good years with Fordham carrying the torch now.

The league has to produce two playoff teams on a consistent basis. The added depth will help with perception and boost the contenders profiles come playoff times.

[Sader87]

The non-scholly PL killed HC football....there's no debate in that.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The non-scholly PL killed HC football....there's no debate in that.

Holy Cross killed Holy Cross football. There's no doubt that the PL limited HC's, Lehigh's and Colgate's reach in the mid 80's. All three had accomplished some pretty special things in the previous 10 years. The ability to compete on a true national stage had been effectively eliminated. However, when the PL announced they we were entering the playoffs it was obvious that Lehigh and Colgate re-committed to their programs. Lehigh had some legitimately special teams. I was at Umass in '98 and at Delaware in '99. Those were two awesome, big time FCS atmospheres. Those type of games occurred on the regular through 2005. 2010 and 2011 were really fun as well. The playoff game against Towson in front of a sold-out Johnny U Stadium was tremendous.

Why Holy Cross failed to pick up their game when the playoff opportunity came about is beyond me. It's not like the success of the late 80's, early 90's was that far in the rearview mirror. Heck, it was only 6 years from Holy Cross finishing #3 in 1991 until Colgate ventured to Villanova in 1997 for the first round of the playoffs.


Lafayette even went from almost killing the program to having two really good teams in 2004 and 2005. They actually made the playoffs in 2006 but were not at the same level. They remained pretty good through 2009 but never were able to take the next step.

Clawson had Fordham nationally ranked and winning playoff games by 2002.

It took Holy Cross 12 years to make it to the playoffs. That's their lone appearance...

[Sader87]

Holy Cross is about the only PL school that has the ability/reach to be a factor in FCS football year in, year out........it is what is......Fordham has NYC, Lehigh has whatevah it is they have.....HC has the metro-Worcester area, a great history etc....the PL will improve in football imo...how well, we shall see

[ngineer]

Punishing runner ? Gotta go with Jon Rushatz. Lord that man could hit.

Didn't have the pleasure. I did with Jack, so I can only go on what I 'felt'. (;-)

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Holy Cross is about the only PL school that has the ability/reach to be a factor in FCS football year in, year out........it is what is......Fordham has NYC, Lehigh has whatevah it is they have.....HC has the metro-Worcester area, a great history etc....the PL will improve in football imo...how well, we shall see

Based on what? A 7 year stretch 25+ years ago? Holy Cross is located in a relatively large city in a populous state that is known for having tremendous colleges and universities. It has a really nice campus with very good academics. However, it's not one of the destination catholic schools. Maybe it was in the 40's and 50's but it's not anymore. This is not to sound offensive but to many, many millennials the name "Holy Cross" screams "extra" religious. Fordham, imo, is a trendy Jesuit university right now. Having Boston College in your back yard does not help either. Holy Cross has been off the grid for over two decades now. They have to prove it by changing their perception some imo....

Ironically, Temple is "hurt" some its name. There's countless people who believe Temple is a religiously affiliated school due to its name. I don't care either way but it's interesting how things like that matter these days. A college in my hometown, Baptist Bible College is in the process of changing its name to Summit University to eliminate a "stigma" and appeal to more people. I don't think Temple or Holy Cross should change their name. It's just a sign of the times...

I'll go on and say I expect Lehigh to be a consistent player with the occasional, inevitable bad season or two here and there. There's a proven track of success over the last 40 years over a number of coaches, players, administrators and school presidents. The school has no religious affiliations, a "diverse" student body by PL standards and is located in a relatively large metro area who has a serious football culture/history.

Lafayette has a lot going for it if the fans and alums can get the bar raised. Hopefully Tavani doesn't hold them hostage...

[RichH2]

Owl,hope you are right. That success hinges on coaching. AND a supportive Admin from the AD,Board and Pres as well as alumni,
As we saw over at College Hill,program can be wrecked by a hostile Admin.

[carney2]

Holy Cross killed Holy Cross football.

Absolutely true. They are the Lafayette of New England with institutional support approaching zero.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Absolutely true. They are the Lafayette of New England with institutional support approaching zero.

Holy Cross is doing some significant improvements to their practice facilities. The Hart Center is also going to get a few minor upgrades too. It needs more than a few though....

What has been the Crusaders best sport over the last 20 years? Basketball is the obvious answer but how about the Olympic sports?

Lafayette has nicer facilities and a better track record over the last 10+ years. Lafayette has easier excess to better potential talent.

I think this has to be some sort of make or break it year for both Tavani or Gilmore. Lafayette can't post another losing season, likewise with HC. Plus, the Crusaders can't lose to Georgetown again. Should that happen Sader87 needs to stage a rally in downtown Worcester. I'll even protest on the Purples behalf....

There's a lot of dynamics to this year. Fordham seriously has to rebuild, Colgate and Lehigh need to step it up after a going through staff overhauls and hopefully Georgetown can remain competitive. The wildcard are the Bison.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Holy Cross is doing some significant improvements to their practice facilities. The Hart Center is also going to get a few minor upgrades too. It needs more than a few though....

What has been the Crusaders best sport over the last 20 years? Basketball is the obvious answer but how about the Olympic sports?

Lafayette has nicer facilities and a better track record over the last 10+ years. Lafayette has easier excess to better potential talent.

I think this has to be some sort of make or break it year for both Tavani or Gilmore. Lafayette can't post another losing season, likewise with HC. Plus, the Crusaders can't lose to Georgetown again. Should that happen Sader87 needs to stage a rally in downtown Worcester. I'll even protest on the Purples behalf....

There's a lot of dynamics to this year. Fordham seriously has to rebuild, Colgate and Lehigh need to step it up after a going through staff overhauls and hopefully Georgetown can remain competitive. The wildcard are the Bison.

If returning with the Jerry Rice Award winner is considered "rebuilding", sign me up.

Fordham and Bucknell right now should be 1,2 in everyone's rankings. And you haven't even seen their Patsy Ratings yet.

Everyone else is catching up.

[DFW HOYA]

I think this has to be some sort of make or break it year for both Tavani or Gilmore. Lafayette can't post another losing season, likewise with HC. Plus, the Crusaders can't lose to Georgetown again. Should that happen Sader87 needs to stage a rally in downtown Worcester. I'll even protest on the Purples behalf....

There's a lot of dynamics to this year. Fordham seriously has to rebuild, Colgate and Lehigh need to step it up after a going through staff overhauls and hopefully Georgetown can remain competitive. The wildcard are the Bison.

Make or break for Tavani? Not even close. He's won a title in 2013, and just as importantly, he's won two straight over the Engineers. The contract runs through 2016 and I expect it to be extended again if he wants to continue coaching.

Gilmore's a different story. Three straight losing seasons, none better than fifth, and 1-4 vs Georgetown since 2010 are not going to be enough without a 7+ win season in 2015.

(Not so fun fact: Georgetown is 0-10 in the PL scholarship era to teams not named "Holy Cross".)

The PL coaching hot seat in 2015, from hot to cold:

1. Gilmore
2. Coen
3. Susan
4. Tavani
5. Moorhead
6. Hunt
7. Sgarlata

[carney2]

I think this has to be some sort of make or break it year for both Tavani or Gilmore. Lafayette can't post another losing season, likewise with HC.

Lots of people on this board smoking odd smelling cigarettes. I have opinions, but not "knowledge" of the Cross situation, but as for Lafayette:

1. Tavani has a job for life. No hot seat. Take it to the bank. When he leaves it will be his decision and no one else's.

2. If Lafayette's first three games in September (W&M, Delaware, Princeton) go as most expect, another losing season is a given.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lots of people on this board smoking odd smelling cigarettes. I have opinions, but not "knowledge" of the Cross situation, but as for Lafayette:

1. Tavani has a job for life. No hot seat. Take it to the bank. When he leaves it will be his decision and no one else's.

2. If Lafayette's first three games in September (W&M, Delaware, Princeton) go as most expect, another losing season is a given.

Six straight losing seasons? That would move the needle imo...

If Lehigh stinks again this year the natives will start to get restless. I think most people are willing to give him a mulligan for last year given the previous 4 years and the coaching changes.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh -

CCSU
JMU
Penn
Princeton
Yale

In my estimation, 3-2 or better helps Andy's cause a lot. Less than 2 wins here would be really bad news.

[van]

Lehigh -

CCSU
JMU
Penn
Princeton
Yale

In my estimation, 3-2 or better helps Andy's cause a lot. Less than 2 wins here would be really bad news.

3-2 will be a challenge here unless the D steps up a couple notches

[RichH2]

Lehigh -

CCSU
JMU
Penn
Princeton
Yale

In my estimation, 3-2 or better helps Andy's cause a lot. Less than 2 wins here would be really bad news.
D DDD???
At the very least,D needs to be competitive,as they adjust to new scheme. 3 Ws would be nice,2 is crucial.
Andy on hot seat? Nope. Not yet. A repeat of last year would put him on it. A winning record and beating Pards the goal again. Same as last year.

[Doc QB]

For some reason I have memories of Arico doing a lot of goal line and short yardages leaps over the pile. It's a shame his senior year was cut short.....What type of interest did Erik Marsh receive out of Beca? I'm pretty sure Beca was AA when they won the state title. Even so, you knew he was going to be a very good to great college player. He was talented enough to big time college football imo...

Arico split time his senior year with Jr Mark Lookenbill, who had a few breakout games (HC and W&M) in back to back weeks with huge yardage rushing, catching passes from Kempa, and a bucket of TDs. Different running styles, fraternity brothers at Chi Psi. Looky tore up his knee the next year at Cornell, was given a fifth, but wasnt the same runner.

I travelled with Marsh to our official visit at Richmond. Offered a trip to JMU, but he didnt go. He also went to Lehigh, Laff, Illinois (Beca's Ed Godbolt coached there I believe). I'm not sure he took a fifth. He wasnt flashy, always got yards, always falling/moving forward. Great guy, too. The great beca teams from that era put little DI talent out there. Three guys over five years and deep playoff runs. But, even if there were two or three-A, they played a quad A schedule and smoked us all. Then cruised in playoffs.

[carney2]

Six straight losing seasons? That would move the needle imo...

Too much logic and not enough local knowledge.

[carney2]

What type of interest did Erik Marsh receive out of Beca? I'm pretty sure Beca was AA when they won the state title. Even so, you knew he was going to be a very good to great college player. He was talented enough to big time college football imo...

As I recall, Marsh had an offer from Illinois. He got personal recruiting attention from then Lafayette running back Tom Costello who would show up at the Marsh residence on his motorcycle, and that (the attention, not the motorcycle) apparently turned the tide. Marsh and Keith Elias of Princeton were contemporaries and had some great battles where they would approach 600 yds. between them. Someone said at the time that Marsh will get you absolutely every yard that's there, but Elias will get you a few that aren't. Marsh gained something approaching 900 yds. against Lehigh alone.

[carney2]

Lehigh -

CCSU
JMU
Penn
Princeton
Yale

In my estimation, 3-2 or better helps Andy's cause a lot. Less than 2 wins here would be really bad news.

The Squawks will be decided underdogs against JMU and Yale, but should be able to beat CCSU and Penn. A winning OOC performance probably comes down to Princeton

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The Squawks will be decided underdogs against JMU and Yale, but should be able to beat CCSU and Penn. A winning OOC performance probably comes down to Princeton

JMU absolutely, Yale I don't believe so. The Eli lost Varga which will be huge. LU had them dead to rights last year and folded like a cheap tent. At Goodman, that should be a pretty good game....

The OOC on paper is much easier than last year. Even so, it's still not filled with Cupcakes. Princeton remains an enigma and CCSU has been down in the dumps lately. Lehigh needs to take care of Penn. If the defense improves 3-2 seems very reasonable.

I think with a marginally improved defense 5-6/6-5 seems possible. If it takes a considerable leap then the season could be a legitimate success. I still have faith in Shafnisky and the offense. I have much more faith in this group of WR. The OL will once again be solid so long as it stays healthy. It'll be interesting.....

[RichH2]

The Squawks will be decided underdogs against JMU and Yale, but should be able to beat CCSU and Penn. A winning OOC performance probably comes down to Princeton

Yale without Varga should be a toss up. He dominated last game. Big revenge factor for LU at Goodman.
Owl,expect D will be better. O could be very very good. Got to avoid another plague of injuries this year. Healthy QB and OL ,we will be fine.7-4 would be good.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yale without Varga should be a toss up. He dominated last game. Big revenge factor for LU at Goodman.
Owl,expect D will be better. O could be very very good. Got to avoid another plague of injuries this year. Healthy QB and OL ,we will be fine.7-4 would be good.

I'm leaning towards 6-5 but another losing season would not completely shock me depending on who figures it out in the league. The lack of size along the DL has been addressed. That has been a known problem since Chagani graduated. It took basically 3 years for it to be resolved, relatively speaking. The LB's will be solid. They should also be a little bigger. As for the schemes and secondary it's in Botts we trust imo.

I love the FR RB's and the individual O-linemen. Shafnisky has to prove he can drive the ball "deep". If he's healthy and can stretch the field he'll be a legitimately good FCS QB. Someone other than Pelletier needs to step-up too. Outside of Lafayette I thought the OC did a decent job given the pieces he had. The defense has to help out of the O. A few short fields would be nice.

They also must find a legitimate FG kicker. They lose way too many points from the 15-25 yard line...

[RichH2]

I'm leaning towards 6-5 but another losing season would not completely shock me depending on who figures it out in the league. The lack of size along the DL has been addressed. That has been a known problem since Chagani graduated. It took basically 3 years for it to be resolved, relatively speaking. The LB's will be solid. They should also be a little bigger. As for the schemes and secondary it's in Botts we trust imo.

I love the FR RB's and the individual O-linemen. Shafnisky has to prove he can drive the ball "deep". If he's healthy and can stretch the field he'll be a legitimately good FCS QB. Someone other than Pelletier needs to step-up too. Outside of Lafayette I thought the OC did a decent job given the pieces he had. The defense has to help out of the O. A few short fields would be nice.

They also must find a legitimate FG kicker. They lose way too many points from the 15-25 yard line...
Kelsey will be this team's Drwal. Missed most of last yr with injury.Knott also back.
Mish will be the K. Big leg.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Kelsey will be this team's Drwal. Missed most of last yr with injury.Knott also back.
Mish will be the K. Big leg.

Hopefully Mish can use that big leg to his advantage. It's been ugly since Douglas left over a decade ago.

If Kelsey is legitimately as good as Drawl then Lehigh definitely has something. Knott needs to stay healthy. Pelletier as a sophomore is a better #1 than Parrish. Josh was never able to elevate his game to the next level.

[RichH2]

Hopefully Mish can use that big leg to his advantage. It's been ugly since Douglas left over a decade ago.

If Kelsey is legitimately as good as Drawl then Lehigh definitely has something. Knott needs to stay healthy. Pelletier as a sophomore is a better #1 than Parrish. Josh was never able to elevate his game to the next level.
Josh a great guy but agree not a #1 . Way too many drops. Oh,watch for Casey. Now that he has put on some muscle,he will see PT.

[heath]

-Andys job is safe
-things cannot get worse than last season
-2nd year coaches better step up
-there will be a QB controversy in camp
- a frosh will lead the team in rushing
-like years in the past, Lehigh will have a chance to win the the league in the final week,or before
-forget OOC, but hope for a 3-2 split

[RichH2]

OK ,who is your pick? Bragalone or Brisker.

[ngineer]

Our new Prez seems like he likes sports. Made the effort to attend the Lehigh-Columbia wrestling match, over attending the concert at Carnegie Hall down the street, back in November. Said he wanted to get sense of the "Lehigh culture". Coming from UVA, I think he will have a good perspective on balancing academics and athletics.

[ngineer]

Coen not on the "hot seat" this year. If we have a repeat of last year, then the sweat will set in. Andy is getting to the point where if he has a great year he could leave on his own, IF he wants to "move up". OTOH, if he would like to make Lehigh 'home', ala Tavani, he can do that, too, with another nice string like he had before last. Don't see Susan on any hot seat either. He's turned a moribound program around quite well. He's set for several years now if he wants to stay. Gilmore the only PL coach I see on any kind of hot seat.

[RichH2]

Susan puts together another year or two ,a prime candidate for moving up. I wish him and Moorhead Godspeed :)

[heath]

OK ,who is your pick? Bragalone or Brisker.
The one with better hands and football smarts, catching a screen and pass blocking will be a must...............Brisker looks great on film, but a kid with heart and toughness usually plays

[carney2]

Susan puts together another year or two ,a prime candidate for moving up. I wish him and Moorhead Godspeed :)

Not too many schools looking for a 61-62 year old new head coach. Susan is probably at his last (and first) stop on the head coaching train.

[carney2]

there will be a QB controversy in camp

And into the season. Barring injury a freshman at the helm come November.

[RichH2]

And into the season. Barring injury a freshman at the helm come November.
Possible given Mayes' talent but unlikely. Shaf would have to get hurt or fail miserably for Andy to pull him. Given the year he had last year with no arm from JMU onward reasonable to anticipate him having a better year next season.

[bison137]

Not too many schools looking for a 61-62 year old new head coach. Susan is probably at his last (and first) stop on the head coaching train.


actually 59, bit I agree he is unlikely to leave. Also not his first head coaching job. Had a 10-0 record at Davidson - but his family hated the area and he quickly returned to NJ to join Sciano's staff.

[bison137]

Make or break for Tavani? Not even close. He's won a title in 2013, and just as importantly, he's won two straight over the Engineers. The contract runs through 2016 and I expect it to be extended again if he wants to continue coaching.

Gilmore's a different story. Three straight losing seasons, none better than fifth, and 1-4 vs Georgetown since 2010 are not going to be enough without a 7+ win season in 2015.

(Not so fun fact: Georgetown is 0-10 in the PL scholarship era to teams not named "Holy Cross".)

The PL coaching hot seat in 2015, from hot to cold:

1. Gilmore
2. Coen
3. Susan
4. Tavani
5. Moorhead
6. Hunt
7. Sgarlata


Susan????? You have got to be kidding. He would need three bad years to get near a hot seat. Just signed a new contract that likely carries him out further than Hunt and Susan has demonstrated success.

[Fordham]

The PL coaching hot seat in 2015, from hot to cold:

1. Gilmore
2. Coen
3. Susan
4. Tavani
5. Moorhead
6. Hunt
7. Sgarlata

This is completely off the mark imo. The only ones who have any warmth under their cushion are Gilmore, Coen and Tavani, in that order ... and it's recognized that Tavani's seat is likely room temperature at best.

Hunt & Sgarlata are too new to rate and Susan and Moorhead are absolutely untouchable and would have to have scandals break out in order to even have an uncomfortable conversation with the AD take place about how they're running their program. Hunt & Sgarlata more likely to get bumped, even though it's years off and a remote chance, than Susan & Moorhead.

[Franks Tanks]

They didn't offer him as a RB or at all? I'm not big on recruiting but Bragalone is legit regardless of competition. Even so, A and AA football in PA is pretty darn good. I will go out on a limb and say that barring injury that Bragalone will have an excellent college career. Brisker and Bragalone will give the Mountain Hawks their best RB duo since Pleasant and Burcher or Jean/Baker.

The teams that Bragalone played against were pretty poor for the most part. Watch his tape, the DB were often painfully small and slow and took poor angles to boot. They were also afraid to tackle him. With that being said Bragalone absolutely dominated the completion he faced and put up silly numbers. Then again so did Barket, and Barket played against HS competition that was better, although not that much. I think Bragalone s better than Barket. He is faster and more powerful, but not sure how much better.

[carney2]

actually 59, bit I agree he is unlikely to leave. Also not his first head coaching job. Had a 10-0 record at Davidson - but his family hated the area and he quickly returned to NJ to join Sciano's staff.

61-62 in the two or three years the original poster mentioned for his success horizon before getting the call from some unknown suitor.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Susan can coach at Bucknell as long as he wants. The only question I have is whether someone like Greg Schiano gets another shot as NFL or P5 head coach and he gives Joe a call to be his right-hand man. That possibility seems to be getting more remote with each passing year, though.

[bison137]

Susan can coach at Bucknell as long as he wants. The only question I have is whether someone like Greg Schiano gets another shot as NFL or P5 head coach and he gives Joe a call to be his right-hand man. That possibility seems to be getting more remote with each passing year, though.

very unlikely for several reasons. One is that Susan didn't go with Schiano to Tampa Bay when he was younger. Doubtful that he would choose to go now or that Schiano would make a run at him now. Second, Susan will likely be coaching Schiano's son for the next 4 years. I doubt that Schiano would want to mess that up - and at his alma mater no less - to get someone who at best would be a TE coach or some other low-level assistant.

[RichH2]

Always fun to check in on a PL thread to see what we are actually talking about regardless of title thread. :)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just to bring this up again, do people really think Coen could start 0-5 or 1-4 and not see pitchforks and torches?

I could see the mob dispersing with a 2-3 record over this stretch, but four or five losses would be a near-guarantee of a second straight losing season. And I don't think most Lehigh fans are all that patient, especially after last season. Do people really think a "Tavani" - a 5-6 record, competing for the title and a win over the Rival - is now enough for most Lehigh fans?

[RichH2]

Recalling Andy's first 4 years,doubt 2 losing yrs would put him in jeopardy. IMO, tho a repeat of last year's D with no discernible improvement would raise serious concerns for me.

[Franks Tanks]

Just to bring this up again, do people really think Coen could start 0-5 or 1-4 and not see pitchforks and torches?

I could see the mob dispersing with a 2-3 record over this stretch, but four or five losses would be a near-guarantee of a second straight losing season. And I don't think most Lehigh fans are all that patient, especially after last season. Do people really think a "Tavani" - a 5-6 record, competing for the title and a win over the Rival - is now enough for most Lehigh fans?

Fans may be upset, but that is largely irrelevant. Lehigh is not a "job for life" like Lafayette, but coaches seem to get plenty of time on South Mountain as well. It would take 2 more sub-par seasons, with one being as ugly as this past one, for Andy to be gone.

Also Coen isn't going anywhere as a head coach. If he leaves Lehigh on his own accord it will be as a position coach or OC at a larger program IMO. He stock was highest 2-3 years ago, and he doesn't appear to be interested in making incremental climbs up the coaching ladder.

[Lehigh'98]

Just to bring this up again, do people really think Coen could start 0-5 or 1-4 and not see pitchforks and torches?

I could see the mob dispersing with a 2-3 record over this stretch, but four or five losses would be a near-guarantee of a second straight losing season. And I don't think most Lehigh fans are all that patient, especially after last season. Do people really think a "Tavani" - a 5-6 record, competing for the title and a win over the Rival - is now enough for most Lehigh fans?

He will be under alot of scrutiny with another bad season. Everyone will be attributing his success to his assistant coaches. I realize that the D needs to improve, but the offense needs to put together solid, sustained drives as well. The play calling will be looked at with a much closer eye this year and Folmar's job could be in jeopardy.

[RichH2]

He will be under alot of scrutiny with another bad season. Everyone will be attributing his success to his assistant coaches. I realize that the D needs to improve, but the offense needs to put together solid, sustained drives as well. The play calling will be looked at with a much closer eye this year and Folmar's job could be in jeopardy.
I gave Folmar a pass for last year. New staff,new system for him and numerous injuries everywhere. We'll see how it goes this coming season. Healthy QB and OL and O s/b very good. If not,one has to wonder why.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Recalling Andy's first 4 years,doubt 2 losing yrs would put him in jeopardy. IMO, tho a repeat of last year's D with no discernible improvement would raise serious concerns for me.

I think how this year goes will determine the amount of pressure he would face heading into 2016. If it turns out to be another debacle stamped with a third straight double-digit loss to Lafayette people will go into melt down mode.

I have faith in Folmar and the offense. Lehigh is due for a little luck on the injury front after two straight brutal years in that department. The defense still makes me nervous. They need to beat CCSU to open the season. A good performance there will give them house money heading to JMU....

[RichH2]

I think how this year goes will determine the amount of pressure he would face heading into 2016. If it turns out to be another debacle stamped with a third straight double-digit loss to Lafayette people will go into melt down mode.

I have faith in Folmar and the offense. Lehigh is due for a little luck on the injury front after two straight brutal years in that department. The defense still makes me nervous. They need to beat CCSU to open the season. A good performance there will give them house money heading to JMU....
On that note,I noticed Andy hired the S & C coach full time to monitor players ' conditioning and training specifically to avoid a repeat of the last two years.

[heath]

He will be under alot of scrutiny with another bad season. Everyone will be attributing his success to his assistant coaches. I realize that the D needs to improve, but the offense needs to put together solid, sustained drives as well. The play calling will be looked at with a much closer eye this year and Folmar's job could be in jeopardy.
yep, to save your job the coordinators will be thrown under the bus. Andy is safe for at least 3 years. We will rebound, maybe with new coaches

[heath]

Fans may be upset, but that is largely irrelevant. Lehigh is not a "job for life" like Lafayette, but coaches seem to get plenty of time on South Mountain as well. It would take 2 more sub-par seasons, with one being as ugly as this past one, for Andy to be gone.

Also Coen isn't going anywhere as a head coach. If he leaves Lehigh on his own accord it will be as a position coach or OC at a larger program IMO. He stock was highest 2-3 years ago, and he doesn't appear to be interested in making incremental climbs up the coaching ladder.
or an AD at Gettysburg or Lehigh

[ngineer]

or an AD at Gettysburg or Lehigh


Interesting thought. Sterrett is about 61 or 62, so I would assume he will be AD for at least another 4 years or so. Coen is about 51 so that could be a possibility...possibly not "the" AD, as LU now has one AD and two 'associate' ADs.

[carney2]

Just how hot is a hot seat in the Patriot League? I see only Lafayette up close and personal, and a "hot seat" in Easton wouldn't melt an ice cube in August. Franks Tanks used the term that most of us accept these days about all of the marquis (pun intended) coaching positions in Pardville: job for life. What about the other six football schools? Owl seems to think that "pressure" is real and matters. I'm not so sure. Does all of this online and even back room table thumping really carry any weight with the powers that be in a "let's not get too serious about athletics" League?

[Fordham]

I think Fordham is the one program so far that has shown that it can have a quick hook if they feel the program is not being run right and if the wins aren't there. See Ed Foley and Tom Massella for proof. Other than that, Georgetown has a pretty long leash but they have moved on coaches after a while. Otherwise, it's tough to say. Each remaining coach/school has had enough success that you could see justifying the job-for-life thing. The one that I think surprises me the most is Coen. I thought he was very close to getting fired and then he brought in Cecchini and everything turned around. Coincidentally, the year that Cecchini leaves, everything turns to crap again. This year will be interesting for him imo.

[RichH2]

True enuf for Andy. After D issues,Folmar is the biggest unknown. Is he another Trey or Ceech?

[Lehigh'98]

I think Fordham is the one program so far that has shown that it can have a quick hook if they feel the program is not being run right and if the wins aren't there. See Ed Foley and Tom Massella for proof. Other than that, Georgetown has a pretty long leash but they have moved on coaches after a while. Otherwise, it's tough to say. Each remaining coach/school has had enough success that you could see justifying the job-for-life thing. The one that I think surprises me the most is Coen. I thought he was very close to getting fired and then he brought in Cecchini and everything turned around. Coincidentally, the year that Cecchini leaves, everything turns to crap again. This year will be interesting for him imo.

Weird how that worked. Lost some key D coaches along the way too, recruiting started to suffer and we are reaping the benefits now.

[RichH2]

Coach Kotulski was a phenominal DC. And Ceech as well at OC. The seniors are the last pre schollie class. Some good players there but believe majority of 2 deep will be the underclassmen. Wach of the last 2 seasons LU has been hit with a ton if injuries. If we can avoid that this season,we could be good. Brings up the next Qs, Folmar's offense and the new D scheme. Lots of ifs going into this season.

[heath]

Lehigh problem now is what Fordham may have experienced a few years earlier. You have senior non scholly players and 3 classes of scholly players. The 2 are not getting along and there is much animosity between the have and the have-nots. There is so much friction between young and old players that it makes it tough for the young coaches. It is a learning curve that should disappear after next season. Trust me on this one as I have talked to a few upperclassmen. Our best days are ahead.xthumbsupx

[RichH2]

A bit overstated heath. Most of the seniors are getting many in excess of the partials that others get. No doubt there is some friction. I also have talked to some of the players also both upper and under classmen. There are indeed a few of the kids on full rides who think the ride entitles them to PT. Not an epidemic.

[heath]

A bit overstated heath. Most of the seniors are getting many in excess of the partials that others get. No doubt there is some friction. I also have talked to some of the players also both upper and under classmen. There are indeed a few of the kids on full rides who think the ride entitles them to PT. Not an epidemic.
overstated?:(No doubt there is some frictionxthumbsupx The epidemic last only one more year.xnodxxnodx We are now recruiting different kids that are less hard nosed, have less heart, not been passed over and don't have a chip..,to kids that have stars and many offers, and are less qualified. So much turmoil that coaches did not announce captains at spring as years in the past. If things do not improve in August it will be a mess again.xconfusedxxconfusedx

[ngineer]

Just how hot is a hot seat in the Patriot League? I see only Lafayette up close and personal, and a "hot seat" in Easton wouldn't melt an ice cube in August. Franks Tanks used the term that most of us accept these days about all of the marquis (pun intended) coaching positions in Pardville: job for life. What about the other six football schools? Owl seems to think that "pressure" is real and matters. I'm not so sure. Does all of this online and even back room table thumping really carry any weight with the powers that be in a "let's not get too serious about athletics" League?

You are correct for the most part. The PL prides itself on not taking athletics "too seriously", so the leashes are longer for our coaches. But I note even LC jettisoned their women's bball coach this year after a continuing losing run. Football programs that average only 3-9,000 crowds do not create 'hot seats'. The key if whether the team is 'competitive' and 'in the hunt' for championships and, more importantly, running clean with good academic progress for the students. So long as the students are fighting hard and playing to win, most administrators at this level are satisfied. We on this board and other 'venting stations' are in the great minority of our alumni.

[Sader87]

Just how hot is a hot seat in the Patriot League? I see only Lafayette up close and personal, and a "hot seat" in Easton wouldn't melt an ice cube in August. Franks Tanks used the term that most of us accept these days about all of the marquis (pun intended) coaching positions in Pardville: job for life. What about the other six football schools? Owl seems to think that "pressure" is real and matters. I'm not so sure. Does all of this online and even back room table thumping really carry any weight with the powers that be in a "let's not get too serious about athletics" League?

I think Gilmore is on a very short leash. Yes, he was extended but anothah 3-8/4-7 may be it for him at HC. Remembah, HC just fired its men's hoop coach who won 20 games in 2013-4 and was a not an altogether awful 14-16 this past year.

[DFW HOYA]

Football programs that average only 3-9,000 crowds do not create 'hot seats'.

Tell that to Savannah State!

Kenneth Pettiford (2 seasons, 1-14)
Richard Basil (3 seasons, 2-26)
Theo Lemon (2 seasons, 4-17)
Robby Wells, (2 seasons, 7-15)
Julius Dixon (1 season, 1-10)
Steve Davenport (2 seasons, 2-22)
Earnest Wilson III (current coach, 2 seasons, 1-23)

[carney2]

even LC jettisoned their women's bball coach this year after a continuing losing run.

Not true. Diane Nolan retired. There were rumors of unrest among the players, but there are always rumors of one sort or another when a coach leaves. In any event, she was not "jettisoned." And, although she had an overall losing record at Lafayettte and no seasons above .500, she improved the program dramatically over her predecessor's results. Many questioned her ability to move the program to the next level, but she was not sitting on a "hot seat."

[carney2]

I think Gilmore is on a very short leash. Yes, he was extended but anothah 3-8/4-7 may be it for him at HC. Remembah, HC just fired its men's hoop coach who won 20 games in 2013-4 and was a not an altogether awful 14-16 this past year.

You daMan (or at least one of a select number) when it comes to Cross stuff on this board. Still, you seem to be overlooking the fact that, like Bucknell, hoops is the be all and end all in Woo. Although Gilmore seems to be folding like a cheap suit, the Purple football coach has a longer leash than his basketball counterpart. I'm still betting that he is allowed to play with a full deck of schollie kids before someone straps him to a gurney.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You daMan (or at least one of a select number) when it comes to Cross stuff on this board. Still, you seem to be overlooking the fact that, like Bucknell, hoops is the be all and end all in Woo. Although Gilmore seems to be folding like a cheap suit, the Purple football coach has a longer leash than his basketball counterpart. I'm still betting that he is allowed to play with a full deck of schollie kids before someone straps him to a gurney.

On a related note, Milan Brown was shown the door this offseason.

[DFW HOYA]

On a related note, Milan Brown was shown the door this offseason.

Nathan Pine has the flexibility to reconfigure the athletic dept. and I suspect that Gilmore understands this fully. His contract runs through 2018 (renewed by Pine) but if necessary, it won't be a barrier to change.

Do other PL schools publicize when their coaches are under contract for?

[Fordham]

overstated?:(No doubt there is some frictionxthumbsupx The epidemic last only one more year.xnodxxnodx We are now recruiting different kids that are less hard nosed, have less heart, not been passed over and don't have a chip..,to kids that have stars and many offers, and are less qualified. So much turmoil that coaches did not announce captains at spring as years in the past. If things do not improve in August it will be a mess again.xconfusedxxconfusedx

pretty damning stuff. not sure i follow your comments about the scholarship kids having less heart, etc. was that tongue in cheek, what the claim is that's being made about them, or your honest assessment of the 3 recruiting classes that were brought in?

The friction we had at Fordham was not anything at all like what you're describing fwiw.

[Sader87]

Anecdotally (from what I hear/read), I think this (friction btw. schollie and non-schollie players) has been going on at HC the last couple years as well. Hopefully the worst of this has passed as now scholarship players will outnumber non-scholarship players on the roster and in the Fall of 2016, the entire roster will be technically all scholarship.

[ngineer]

Nathan Pine has the flexibility to reconfigure the athletic dept. and I suspect that Gilmore understands this fully. His contract runs through 2018 (renewed by Pine) but if necessary, it won't be a barrier to change.

Do other PL schools publicize when their coaches are under contract for?

Other than an initial hire when a coach is given a multi-year contract to start in order to get his / her program established, Lehigh typically goes on a year to year basis with each coach reviewed by the AD at the end of that sport's season. Not to say exceptions have not occurred, but that is the standard way of doing business, there.

[carney2]

Other than an initial hire when a coach is given a multi-year contract to start in order to get his / her program established, Lehigh typically goes on a year to year basis with each coach reviewed by the AD at the end of that sport's season. Not to say exceptions have not occurred, but that is the standard way of doing business, there.

Contrast with Lafayette where contracts are supposedly signed, but all know that the jobs are lifetime to lifetime with no pesky performance evaluations - ever.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Other than an initial hire when a coach is given a multi-year contract to start in order to get his / her program established, Lehigh typically goes on a year to year basis with each coach reviewed by the AD at the end of that sport's season. Not to say exceptions have not occurred, but that is the standard way of doing business, there.

To be a fly on the wall Dec 1st, 2014...