Big Sky Conference won't offer full-cost stipends

[Green26]

Can't afford them. It would cost Montana about $600,000 per year for all sports.

http://missoulian.com/sports/college/montana/um-not-close-to-offering-athletes-full-cost-of-attendance/article_7fd0306d-2498-5bba-b675-7dda3d097515.html

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://media.giphy.com/media/8fen5LSZcHQ5O/giphy.gif

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So Montana IS the Big Sky Conference, then? xrolleyesx

Fact remains if, say, NAU wanted to offer FCOA for all its athletes, the Big Sky couldn't prevent it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Though this thread title IMO is misleading, I don't want to drown out AD Haslam's comments, all of which are right on point.


The Horizon League board of directors voted unanimously this week to expand scholarship coverage for only men's basketball. As required by Title IX, an equal number of athletes from women's sports must also receive the same aid.

The league did not specify in which sport the equity would come.

Haslam sees that model as dangerous to the cohesiveness of a university's athletics.

"If you just start to pick and choose certain student athletes or teams, gosh, it further fragments your student athlete population," he said. " 'That team's getting something that I'm not.' I understand that all the time life's not fair, but once you go down that road, it's really hard to back up over that tire ripper."

I agree wholeheartedly. Once you let it in for one sport, it's destined to spread across all sports. Not only is what the Horizon League is doing is a bad idea, too, it might also, IMO, open them up to a lawsuit - after all, if you MANDATE some sports have FCOA, then aren't you denying the right of other sports to have that benefit, given a finite revenue?

[FargoBison]

Won't be any lawsuits, unless title IX issues are created and with the Horizon it clearly won't. The Big South is going to do the same thing as the Horizon, MBB and WBB cost of attendance. MBB and WBB or maybe VB instead will become the standard for non-FBS schools.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Won't be any lawsuits, unless title IX issues are created and with the Horizon it clearly won't. The Big South is going to do the same thing as the Horizon, MBB and WBB cost of attendance. MBB and WBB or maybe VB instead will become the standard for non-FBS schools.

But there are, you just don't realize it. If you mandate it for some sports, isn't that denying the opportunity of women's bowling to have FCOA? Just balancing the $$ or even the number of scholarships isn't enough - it's about opportunities at a sport level.

[FargoBison]

But there are, you just don't realize it. If you mandate it for some sports, isn't that denying the opportunity of women's bowling to have FCOA? Just balancing the $$ or even the number of scholarships isn't enough - it's about opportunities at a sport level.

Legally, absolutely it will be enough. These conferences have lawyers advising them on every move.

Could it create some issues within their athletic department, maybe I guess but I doubt it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Legally, absolutely it will be enough. These conferences have lawyers advising them on every move.

Could it create some issues within their athletic department, maybe I guess but I doubt it.

Guess the Horizon doesn't mind its name on the lawsuit, but I think there are a lot of conference commissioners not at all comfortable being a part of that.

The "issues within the athletic department" thing have been brought up by a significant number of sitting and former ADs, and I can't think of more qualified people to make that assertion.

[CrazyCat]

If a school can't afford to give it to every athlete(even the kid on the track team that just gets books payed for) then they shouldn't do it at all. IMO.

[FargoBison]

Guess the Horizon doesn't mind its name on the lawsuit, but I think there are a lot of conference commissioners not at all comfortable being a part of that.

The "issues within the athletic department" thing have been brought up by a significant number of sitting and former ADs, and I can't think of more qualified people to make that assertion.

There will be no lawsuits, to think that just shows how out of touch with reality you are in regards to this. The women's bowling team isn't going to sue because the women's basketball team is getting FCOA and they are not. I agree it could create some internal strife but again most coaches will fall in line because for MBB and WBB this will be the standard, in women's bowling not so much.

[FargoBison]

If a school can't afford to give it to every athlete(even the kid on the track team that just gets books payed for) then they shouldn't do it at all. IMO.

Then those schools will be choosing to be at a competitive disadvantage, especially in MBB.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

But there are, you just don't realize it. If you mandate it for some sports, isn't that denying the opportunity of women's bowling to have FCOA? Just balancing the $$ or even the number of scholarships isn't enough - it's about opportunities at a sport level.


You can't tell the difference between women's bowling and other sports?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There will be no lawsuits, to think that just shows how out of touch with reality you are in regards to this. The women's bowling team isn't going to sue because the women's basketball team is getting FCOA and they are not.

Because nobody's ever sued someone else because that someone else gets a benefit that they're not getting. Gotcha. xrolleyesx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Time to give you guys a lesson in Title IX law.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/02/16/uc-davis-ordered-to-pay-1-3-million-in-title-ix-case/


The University of California, Davis has agreed to pay more than $1.3 million to attorneys representing three women who had filed gender discrimination claims because the campus did not offer a women’s wrestling team, officials said Thursday.

The settlement came after a federal judge in Sacramento ruled on a broader question in August and found that the university had violated Title IX, the federal law passed in 1972 that requires equal athletic opportunities for men and women.


U.S. District Judge Frank Damrell rejected the women’s individual discrimination claims but found that the university had reduced athletic opportunities for all women during the time the plaintiffs were enrolled.

To recap: UC Davis was sued by three women who said Title IX entitled them to a women's wrestling team. The judge rejected their claim, but adjudged that UC Davis "reduced athletic opportunities for all women". Suing about a non-existent sport, whose claims of discrimination were rejected, still resulted in a finding of reducing athletic opportunities.

History shows judges are not going to simply say "well, gee, the women's basketball team got some, so they've done enough". I mean, it's within the rights of the Horizon League to try to challenge this mindset, but if you were a conference commissioner, would you?

It's not enough to say "that lawsuit was stupid". Fact is these types of decisions happen.

[Silenoz]

I'm sensing a severe lack of parity in FCS's future. Can't blame Haslam as that's our economic reality.

[Libertine]

If you mandate it for some sports, isn't that denying the opportunity of women's bowling to have FCOA? Just balancing the $$ or even the number of scholarships isn't enough - it's about opportunities at a sport level.

You would have a valid point except a key fact is wrong here. The Horizon isn't mandating that all conference schools must go FCOA in men's basketball. They are "expanding scholarship limits in men's basketball" in order to accommodate FCOA in MBB and an equal number of women's sports. Legally speaking, the Horizon League cannot force any of their members into going FCOA in much the same way that the Southland Conference could not prohibit their schools from going FCOA.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/horizon-league-passes-cost-of-attendance-measure-041315

http://www.southland.org/news/2015/2/18/GEN_0218151103.aspx?path=general

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But here's the Horizon League's own release:

http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/horizon-league-board-of-directors-passes-cost-of-attendance


The Horizon League Board of Directors unanimously passed cost-of-attendance legislation on Friday, mandating the measure in men’s basketball and for at least an equal number of female student-athletes in a League-sponsored sport or sports.

[Bisonoline]

Guess the Horizon doesn't mind its name on the lawsuit, but I think there are a lot of conference commissioners not at all comfortable being a part of that.

The "issues within the athletic department" thing have been brought up by a significant number of sitting and former ADs, and I can't think of more qualified people to make that assertion.

Not any different than one athlete getting a full ride and another getting a partial. There really doesnt need to be this much drama.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Not any different than one athlete getting a full ride and another getting a partial. There really doesnt need to be this much drama.

Sure it does. He basically wants FCS to be DII so Lehigh is competitive. He doesn't like all this success at the top.

[Green26]

Though this thread title IMO is misleading, I don't want to drown out AD Haslam's comments, all of which are right on point.



I agree wholeheartedly. Once you let it in for one sport, it's destined to spread across all sports. Not only is what the Horizon League is doing is a bad idea, too, it might also, IMO, open them up to a lawsuit - after all, if you MANDATE some sports have FCOA, then aren't you denying the right of other sports to have that benefit, given a finite revenue?

No, the title thread is not misleading. It is accurate. The article says the "Big Sky Conference" isn't ready to offer full cost stipends. See the below quote.

"The move [Liberty's] may be the first steps down an uncharted path with many to follow, but Montana and the Big Sky Conference aren't ready to take that leap. They just can't."

"If we had unlimited financial abilities, I would be a proponent of doing everything we possibly can in supporting our student athletes," Haslam said. "The reality is we don't have those resources."

[Sader87]

I really, really doubt too many other FCS schools go FCoA....for football anyway. $$$ basically spent with really, very little return of investment.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

NDSU will. I think South Dakota State will also.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Not any different than one athlete getting a full ride and another getting a partial. There really doesnt need to be this much drama.

Boom, there it is. My exact thought as I've been reading all this for months. Way too much Chicken Littling going on lately. I mean fine if you want to manufacture some drama for yourself you can say there will be lawsuits and there very well could be because people make up BS all the time and sue for it. But is there really an issue that will fall against schools and conferences trying to make it all work? Is this doomsday? Should we just shut the site down now cuz it sure sounds like all is coming to an end. xlolx

THIS IS CALAMITOUS! EVERYONE RUN AROUND LIKE THEIR HAIR IS ON FIRE!! EVERYBODY IS GETTING SUED, YOU ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/img.ultrasignup.com/events/raw/6a76f4a3-4ad2-4ae2-8a3b-c092e85586af.jpg

C'mon man, there is some growing to do, some things to work through but really it isn't this dramatic.

[FargoBison]

Time to give you guys a lesson in Title IX law.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/02/16/uc-davis-ordered-to-pay-1-3-million-in-title-ix-case/



To recap: UC Davis was sued by three women who said Title IX entitled them to a women's wrestling team. The judge rejected their claim, but adjudged that UC Davis "reduced athletic opportunities for all women". Suing about a non-existent sport, whose claims of discrimination were rejected, still resulted in a finding of reducing athletic opportunities.

History shows judges are not going to simply say "well, gee, the women's basketball team got some, so they've done enough". I mean, it's within the rights of the Horizon League to try to challenge this mindset, but if you were a conference commissioner, would you?

It's not enough to say "that lawsuit was stupid". Fact is these types of decisions happen.

This was a lawsuit about participation and women being denied a chance to compete. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

NDSU will. I think South Dakota State will also.

I see some of you intimating this and I'm sure it's on the table as it is with many places. What exactly is the source of the "We are doing this" sentiment though? I may have missed something but then again it could just be internet buzz infecting peops and then being spread about.

Just wondering where it has been said that this will be happening at NDSU?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I see some of you intimating this and I'm sure it's on the table as it is with many places. What exactly is the source of the "We are doing this" sentiment though? I may have missed something but then again it could just be internet buzz infecting peops and then being spread about.

Just wondering where it has been said that this will be happening at NDSU?

Our old AD said we might do it, our new AD has said they are exploring it and we have the money.

[SUPharmacist]

While we all hated the constant talk from certain people in the past about NDSU trying to go FBS, I think there are some reasons NDSU is considering this that are similar to Liberty. While NDSU is not actively seeking an FBS invite, they want to be in a good position should the P5 and G5 ever split. The goal would be to look like they belong at that second tier and not get pushed down further. Many thought the bison missed the boat on not moving up from D2 a long time ago, and have no interest in a repeat. Not sure I am in favor of spending this way, but I get it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Boom, there it is. My exact thought as I've been reading all this for months. Way too much Chicken Littling going on lately. I mean fine if you want to manufacture some drama for yourself you can say there will be lawsuits and there very well could be because people make up BS all the time and sue for it. But is there really an issue that will fall against schools and conferences trying to make it all work?

Apparently this is enough of a threat/issue that conference commissioners and ADs have come out publicly and mentioned it as a threat/issue. Including your own AD.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Our old AD said we might do it, our new AD has said they are exploring it and we have the money.

Gotcha.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Apparently this is enough of a threat/issue that conference commissioners and ADs have come out publicly and mentioned it as a threat/issue. Including your own AD.

Which is exactly what I did. I just ain't making wild speculative leaps of faith as to how it's going to turn out...which was what I directly addressed. You chose to focus on something else which is fine with me but you should know you are not addressing the point I was making.

[PAllen]

Though this thread title IMO is misleading, I don't want to drown out AD Haslam's comments, all of which are right on point.



I agree wholeheartedly. Once you let it in for one sport, it's destined to spread across all sports. Not only is what the Horizon League is doing is a bad idea, too, it might also, IMO, open them up to a lawsuit - after all, if you MANDATE some sports have FCOA, then aren't you denying the right of other sports to have that benefit, given a finite revenue?

How is that any different than Lehigh offering scholarships in wrestling, Rensselear offering scholarships in hockey, or Hopkins offering scholarships in lacrosse, or any number of schools in basketball? All while not offering a dime to most or all of the rest of the athletic department. Do I agree with the FCOA thing? No. But some of the statements from the opposition are just sounding silly.

[PAllen]

Time to give you guys a lesson in Title IX law.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/02/16/uc-davis-ordered-to-pay-1-3-million-in-title-ix-case/



To recap: UC Davis was sued by three women who said Title IX entitled them to a women's wrestling team. The judge rejected their claim, but adjudged that UC Davis "reduced athletic opportunities for all women". Suing about a non-existent sport, whose claims of discrimination were rejected, still resulted in a finding of reducing athletic opportunities.

History shows judges are not going to simply say "well, gee, the women's basketball team got some, so they've done enough". I mean, it's within the rights of the Horizon League to try to challenge this mindset, but if you were a conference commissioner, would you?

It's not enough to say "that lawsuit was stupid". Fact is these types of decisions happen.

Recap: A corrupt California judge ordered $1.3M to be paid to his lawyer buddies while the plaintiffs got nothing. Got it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How is that any different than Lehigh offering scholarships in wrestling, Rensselear offering scholarships in hockey, or Hopkins offering scholarships in lacrosse, or any number of schools in basketball? All while not offering a dime to most or all of the rest of the athletic department. Do I agree with the FCOA thing? No. But some of the statements from the opposition are just sounding silly.

It's different because Lehigh offering scholarships in wrestling, RPI offfering scholarships in hockey and Hopkins offering scholarships are 1) following NCAA rules that allow these scholarships and 2) applying those same scholarships to men's and women's scholarships equally - the nature of a scholarship, men's and women's, is still the same.

But FCOA is an additional benefit that changes the nature of a scholarship. It creates a different class of scholarship - FCOA scholarships, and non-FCOA scholarships, that need to be determined at a school level if they are to divvy these up by sport. On that, though, there's loads of talk about FCOA being "all or nothing", not divvying it up at all. Conference commissioners and ADs talk about the division it might cause in the athletic department, which seems likely too, but informing that decision is the unsaid threat of lawsuits when a non-FCOA sport sues to get FCOA. Lehigh's offering of wrestling scholarships doesn't change the nature of a scholarship, but FCOA does.

Legal counsel to many D-I conferences have determined any conference-level actions to limit this benefit might result in lawsuits because though it's permissive, FCOA is NCAA legislation and thus if a conference tries to limit the offering of this aid, it will be regarded as collusion against the NCAA. It seems reasonable to assume that everyone not in the P5 is worried about lawsuits resulting from this.

Finally, it's worthy of mention that Liberty's decision to offer FCOA is across the board, every scholarship sport. They didn't elect to divvy it up by sport. As a result, Liberty is immune from any legal action - they are offering all benefits to all athletes, men and women, and are doing so because their conference cannot prevent them from offering it as an NCAA benefit. They are completely within their rights to do this.

Now, if a different school elects to divvy it up, are they really immune from legal action? I don't think so. If a conference prohibits its members from adopting it for certain sports, are they immune to legal action? Legal experts say that that opens up the conference to potential lawsuits. If a conference mandates that you adopt it, even with Title IX matching, does that make you immune from legal action? Personally, I don't think so.

[PAllen]

You are really reaching LFN

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Recap: A corrupt California judge ordered $1.3M to be paid to his lawyer buddies while the plaintiffs got nothing. Got it.

You forgot the part where UC Davis spent millions more $ in order to get their athletics department in Title IX order.

- - - Updated - - -


You are really reaching LFN

Feel free to believe that, and continue to believe that when the lawsuit happens against the Horizon League, at which point I'll remind you of this conversation.

[centennial]

Outside of Liberty, I expect the majority of the COA FCS crowd to be just Football + Basketball and equivalence for the woman sports. There might be some outliers which have high performing sports like _ND hockey, who might be forced into it.
Also, for Basketball, chance of going to the Big Dance plummets without COA and upsets will significantly lower.
People asking for a link to prove NDSU is actively considering it can look here-
http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2015/jan/22/ndsu-will-look-at-paying-athletes-stipend-under-new-ncaa-rule/

[CrazyCat]

I'm sure everybody is "considering" it.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Outside of Liberty, I expect the majority of the COA FCS crowd to be just Football + Basketball and equivalence for the woman sports. There might be some outliers which have high performing sports like _ND hockey, who might be forced into it.
Also, for Basketball, chance of going to the Big Dance plummets without COA and upsets will significantly lower.
People asking for a link to prove NDSU is actively considering it can look here-
http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2015/jan/22/ndsu-will-look-at-paying-athletes-stipend-under-new-ncaa-rule/

I believe I was the only one that asked. Everyone is actively considering it so that is not how I posed the question. I was asking why it's taken as a forgone conclusion which is different from what I think you perceived me asking. Thank you for the link but just want to be clear on what we are talking about.

[Bisonoline]

Outside of Liberty, I expect the majority of the COA FCS crowd to be just Football + Basketball and equivalence for the woman sports. There might be some outliers which have high performing sports like _ND hockey, who might be forced into it.
Also, for Basketball, chance of going to the Big Dance plummets without COA and upsets will significantly lower.
People asking for a link to prove NDSU is actively considering it can look here-
http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2015/jan/22/ndsu-will-look-at-paying-athletes-stipend-under-new-ncaa-rule/

Our AD has mentioned numerous times that we are leaning that way and we need to be ready when the decision is made. I really don't think there is any question that NDSU wouldn't be offering the FCOA.

[Green26]

Legal counsel to many D-I conferences have determined any conference-level actions to limit this benefit might result in lawsuits because though it's permissive, FCOA is NCAA legislation and thus if a conference tries to limit the offering of this aid, it will be regarded as collusion against the NCAA. It seems reasonable to assume that everyone not in the P5 is worried about lawsuits resulting from this.



I've heard of the collusion issue/advice, but are you sure that it's collusion against the ncaa--as opposed to collusion to prevent players from getting the additional supplemental scholarship money? It's an antitrust concept. I'm just asking; I don't know.

[Bisonoline]

You forgot the part where UC Davis spent millions more $ in order to get their athletics department in Title IX order.

- - - Updated - - -



Feel free to believe that, and continue to believe that when the lawsuit happens against the Horizon League, at which point I'll remind you of this conversation.

You see a lawsuit behind pretty much everything don't you. P5 breaking away. FCOA and numerous other things. Interesting.

[Hammersmith]

I've heard of the collusion issue/advice, but are you sure that it's collusion against the ncaa--as opposed to collusion to prevent players from getting the additional supplemental scholarship money? It's an antitrust concept. I'm just asking; I don't know.

It's been explained to him several times that the lawsuits would be brought by the players and not the NCAA, but he won't listen. He misunderstood a fragment of a quote and won't let it go.

[centennial]

I still fail to understand why UM cannot find an extra $700k. Realistically, you need even less if you are only doing COA for football, basketball and the title IX requirements. Raise regular ticket prices another $5 + ask for more donations. If anyone in the Big Sky should be able to do it, UM's it.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I still fail to understand why UM cannot find an extra $700k. Realistically, you need even less if you are only doing COA for football, basketball and the title IX requirements. Raise regular ticket prices another $5 + ask for more donations. If anyone in the Big Sky should be able to do it, UM's it.

UM could do it but at this point they are sitting back and waiting until pressed is my guess. I think UM has the highest average ticket prices in FCS and has had for a long time so they are not afraid to ask for more there and people would chip in more for something like this if they feel the Griz are being put in a hole. Just no need to jump right into this at this point is what it appears to be to me.

[Bisonoline]

UM could do it but at this point they are sitting back and waiting until pressed is my guess. I think UM has the highest average ticket prices in FCS and has had for a long time so they are not afraid to ask for more there and people would chip in more for something like this if they feel the Griz are being put in a hole. Just no need to jump right into this at this point is what it appears to be to me.

I was wondering if alot of his presser was nothing more than lets wait and see speak. It makes no sense to me with Montanas rabid FB fan base that they wouldnt jump at the opportunity to distance themselves from the competition. With your fan base you could certainly raise the money.
The quotes about recruiting and we dont infringe on others territory was some of the craziest stuff Ive read coming from an AD.

[SDFS]

No real shock here, UND is going to full cost for hockey - 18 students. And they will be funding full cost for 18 female students. They did not say which programs. I think the biggest bang for the buck would be basketball. But, do they start the $$ war in the Big Sky. I don't think so. It will be for womens hockey.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3725957-und-pay-some-student-athletes-cost-attendance-and-some-living-expenses

[NoDak 4 Ever]

No real shock here, UND is going to full cost for hockey - 18 students. And they will be funding full cost for 18 female students. They did not say which programs. I think the biggest bang for the buck would be basketball. But, do they start the $$ war in the Big Sky. I don't think so. It will be for womens hockey.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3725957-und-pay-some-student-athletes-cost-attendance-and-some-living-expenses

Shouldn't be too much of a ripple effect there. Only 59 teams and barely 25 are competitive.

[centennial]

I predicted that UND would be sponsoring hockey. The impetus on NDSU to offer football and basketball keeps getting bigger.

[Herder]

For NDSU to keep competing for recruits against the MAC and MW (lower) for FB, they need to pursue full cost. Recruiting would decline without it.

[SDFS]

I predicted that UND would be sponsoring hockey. The impetus on NDSU to offer football and basketball keeps getting bigger.

The AD has been saying that UND will follow the P5 schools in hockey since this topic was first brought to the table. So, it was not a tough decision. The tough decision is what to do with the 18 FCoA available to the womens programs. The 2 programs that would make the most financial sense are (basketball and/or volleyball). But, it does not look like the other Big Sky schools have much of an appetite for FCoA moving forward at this point. Based on some comments about a year ago - it did sound like the Big Sky schools were talking about FCoA for basketball but it appears that they must not have reached a consensus.

My prediction UND plays nice within the Big Sky and puts the money toward hockey. I think that it would be smart to sit tight on what they are going to do with FCoA for the womens sports until a few more pieces fall into place. UNO/Denver could force greater impacts in the upper midwest regions.

[Sader87]

This will be very interesting how this plays out. I just don't see the vast, vast majority of FCS schools giving the FCoA for football....it really doesn't make much economic sense for them to do so. How many recruits do FCS schools "steal" from the P5 schools every year? Maybe a couple every year to Harvard, Yale or Princeton and possibly a few other schools???

I think the biggest issue affecting how this plays out is how the G5 football conferences deal with the FCoA issue....if many do give it, you may see more some FCS schools/leagues go that route. If many don't.... obviously you won't see much of it at the FCS level.

[FargoBison]

This will be very interesting how this plays out. I just don't see the vast, vast majority of FCS schools giving the FCoA for football....it really doesn't make much economic sense for them to do so. How many recruits do FCS schools "steal" from the P5 schools every year? Maybe a couple every year to Harvard, Yale or Princeton and possibly a few other schools???

I think the biggest issue affecting how this plays out is how the G5 football conferences deal with the FCoA issue....if many do give it, you may see more some FCS schools/leagues go that route. If many don't.... obviously you won't see much of it at the FCS level.

The MAC and AAC have already committed to it, the G5 will be almost all in. This is what has NDSU concerned, we recruit against the MAC a fair amount.

[SDFS]

I predicted that UND would be sponsoring hockey. The impetus on NDSU to offer football and basketball keeps getting bigger.

I am sure that UNO and Denver are going to follow with FCoA. So, it will be interesting to see how this impacts the SL. The FCoA for Denver could go to non SL sports but I don't think the UNO has options outside of SL.

[FargoBison]

I am sure that UNO and Denver are going to follow with FCoA. So, it will be interesting to see how this impacts the SL. The FCoA for Denver could go to non SL sports but I don't think the UNO has options outside of SL.

They shouldn't worry about that, since NDSU will be doing it.

[pokefan02]

I had a conversation about this with someone about FCOA and basically for a team to offer it at least at McNeese, the boosters and supporters of that sport would have to provide it. I would guess that is the reason Title IX does not come into it.

Sent from my HTC M8

[Dane96]

But there are, you just don't realize it. If you mandate it for some sports, isn't that denying the opportunity of women's bowling to have FCOA? Just balancing the $$ or even the number of scholarships isn't enough - it's about opportunities at a sport level.

Athletic Departments can make business decisions with respect to funding as long as they are acting within the spirit of the law.

Now, you are correct, from an optics/hot-water perspective, I highly doubt AD's are going to want to go the "pick-and-choose" route. Heck, it will give haters of athletics more ammunition in the academics over athletics argument.

[dbackjon]

I had a conversation about this with someone about FCOA and basically for a team to offer it at least at McNeese, the boosters and supporters of that sport would have to provide it. I would guess that is the reason Title IX does not come into it.

Sent from my HTC M8

That is incorrect - boosters can donate to the school, with the intent of covering FCoA, but they can't give directly to the students. So it IS covered under Title IX.

- - - Updated - - -

So LFN - to your point - should the football players at Dayton be able to sue the school since they are non-schollie but the basketball team is?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That is incorrect - boosters can donate to the school, with the intent of covering FCoA, but they can't give directly to the students. So it IS covered under Title IX.

- - - Updated - - -

So LFN - to your point - should the football players at Dayton be able to sue the school since they are non-schollie but the basketball team is?

From a Title IX perspective, they actually could, if they could demonstrate that UD was actually overrepresenting women in terms of offered scholarships. However if the sports "opportunities" were representative of the gender ratio of the school it wouldn't have a high probability of success.

There are now two classes of scholarship: FCOA, and non-FCOA. They are not equivalent, and balancing the $ may not be enough, IMO.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

From a Title IX perspective, they actually could, if they could demonstrate that UD was actually overrepresenting women in terms of offered scholarships. However if the sports "opportunities" were representative of the gender ratio of the school it wouldn't have a high probability of success.

There are now two classes of scholarship: FCOA, and non-FCOA. They are not equivalent, and balancing the $ may not be enough, IMO.

There have been numerous lawsuits and Office of Civil Rights investigations regarding Title IX and NCAA athletics. Why? Because it's so easy for someone to do it.

It doesn't mean it will uncover anything, it doesn't mean it has merit. All it means is that a part time blogger can use it to get a few lines about how the sky is falling to get a couple more page clicks.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There have been numerous lawsuits and Office of Civil Rights investigations regarding Title IX and NCAA athletics. Why? Because it's so easy for someone to do it.

It doesn't mean it will uncover anything, it doesn't mean it has merit. All it means is that a part time blogger can use it to get a few lines about how the sky is falling to get a couple more page clicks.

Please be sure to include the part on how successful these cases have been.

[walliver]

Assuming there are no other major changes, most scholarships 5-10 years from now will probably be calculated using FCOA criteria. For some of the schools on this board, FCOA would only be a 5% increase in scholarship costs.

On the other hand, I expect FCOA is just the first wave of major changes. Giving a football player at Ohio State, Alabama, or Notre Dame an extra $3-4K per year won't be enough to satisfy critics - will the FCOA at Alabama go up to $50K per year?. There are lawyers arguing that scholarship limits, themselves, are illegal. At some point, the government will get involved, likely by attaching restrictions to schools accepting federal student loan payments.

My only hope is that our future overlords will show mercy on those of us trying to field cost-effective athletic programs.

[AmsterBison]

My only hope is that our future overlords will show mercy on those of us trying to field cost-effective athletic programs.

Either that or drop the pretense that they are anything other than college-branded and subsidized pro teams and leave college athletics altogether.

[centennial]

The FCOA will not become an arms race. Student bodies/ faculty/ professors will see to it. Also consider that a lot of G5 schools are the only FBS schools in a few states, I expect senators to bring lawsuits against the NCAA.