Is regionalization of playoffs fair?

[SeattleGriz]

Want to hear other peoples thoughts on this one.

As a Griz fan, every year I see some of the teams from the East coast get cupcake match-ups because of regionalization. For example, who gets Lafayette, Hampton, E Illinois and UT-Martin this year? Not the Griz, because they are in the West.

I am putting this out to AGS since I don't have any first hand knowledge of the teams I have just trashed (sorry), but need to know if most feel that East coast teams have the chance to get a wiener team in the first round because I-AA is so East coast heavy with teams.

Am I nuts, or just being a baby?

[umassfan]

Want to hear other peoples thoughts on this one.

As a Griz fan, every year I see some of the teams from the East coast get cupcake match-ups because of regionalization. For example, who gets Lafayette, Hampton, E Illinois and UT-Martin this year? Not the Griz, because they are in the West.

I am putting this out to AGS since I don't have any first hand knowledge of the teams I have just trashed (sorry), but need to know if most feel that East coast teams have the chance to get a wiener team in the first round because I-AA is so East coast heavy with teams.

Am I nuts, or just being a baby?
I understand what you mean but I dont see a strong team going to Montana in round 1. There is no team near them so they could send anyone.

[kardplayer]

Want to hear other peoples thoughts on this one.

As a Griz fan, every year I see some of the teams from the East coast get cupcake match-ups because of regionalization. For example, who gets Lafayette, Hampton, E Illinois and UT-Martin this year? Not the Griz, because they are in the West.

I am putting this out to AGS since I don't have any first hand knowledge of the teams I have just trashed (sorry), but need to know if most feel that East coast teams have the chance to get a wiener team in the first round because I-AA is so East coast heavy with teams.

Am I nuts, or just being a baby?

I gotta believe that, in general, you're being a baby :smiley_wi

More seriously, any concerns the Griz might have, are more than offset by the fact they will never play a first round road game - ever. Granted, this year they are clearly seed-worthy, but even in years when they get in at large and at 8-3, there's no chance of them heading on the road.

[SeattleGriz]

I gotta believe that, in general, you're being a baby :smiley_wi

More seriously, any concerns the Griz might have, are more than offset by the fact they will never play a first round road game - ever. Granted, this year they are clearly seed-worthy, but even in years when they get in at large and at 8-3, there's no chance of them heading on the road.

While I agree that the Griz will almost always get a home game in the first round, I still think with regionalization, the West is almost always stuck with teams from the Southland, Gateway, and Big Sky. These conferences are light years ahead of Patriot, MEAC and OVC. Where is the Wests cupcake game?

[*****]

... the West is almost always stuck with teams from the Southland, Gateway, and Big Sky. These conferences are light years ahead of Patriot, MEAC and OVC. Where is the Wests cupcake game?Well the Big Sky did not get the SLC or GFC champ last year (they got a GFC co-champ) and what happened?

[rokamortis]

As a fan I like the regionalization - should make for better crowds. Plus, the way I look at it is if your goal is to win the national championship then you are going to have to beat 4 solid teams regardless.

[SeattleGriz]

Well the Big Sky did not get the SLC or GFC champ last year (they got a GFC co-champ) and what happened?

Well, of course they got beat by a Cal Poly team that would have kicked the crap out of:

Colgate
Hampton
E Illinois
Lafayette
Nicholls State

My question is, "where is the Wests easy game"?

No one can seem to answer this yet.

[umassfan]

Well, of course they got beat by a Cal Poly team that would have kicked the crap out of:

Colgate
Hampton
E Illinois
Lafayette
Nicholls State

My question is, "where is the Wests easy game"?

No one can seem to answer this yet.
My question is where are the west teams?

[SeattleGriz]

As a fan I like the regionalization - should make for better crowds. Plus, the way I look at it is if your goal is to win the national championship then you are going to have to beat 4 solid teams regardless.

I do agree that you should beat 4 decent teams, but many Eastern teams will get a first round warm up because all the crappy teams that get auto bids are in the East.

I want USD!

[SeattleGriz]

My question is where are the west teams?

What do you mean. Please rephrase your question, I don't understand what you are asking.

[rokamortis]

I do agree that you should beat 4 decent teams, but many Eastern teams will get a first round warm up because all the crappy teams that get auto bids are in the East.

I want USD!

App State had Lafayette last year and had their hands full. You just never know. Your stadium and atmosphere should help offset any disadvantages of playing stronger teams.

[lugo02]

Am I nuts, or just being a baby?


Yes you are are being a baby.



...the West is almost always stuck with teams from the Southland, Gateway, and Big Sky. These conferences are light years ahead of Patriot, MEAC and OVC. Where is the Wests cupcake game?
...
I do agree that you should beat 4 decent teams, but many Eastern teams will get a first round warm up because all the crappy teams that get auto bids are in the East.

Certainly the Patriot have play a couple bad 1st round playoff games, (Colgate, '98 Ga. Southern and '05 UNH, Lehigh '99 Hofstra ) but I don't think the teams we have played in the first round over the past 8 years can look back and say they had "cupcake games"

Ask ASU, Delaware, JMU, UMASS, Northeastern, Hofstra, Western Illinois, Richmond about their first round so called cupcake games vs. Patriot League teams.

2 of the above mentioned teams (JMU and ASU) went on the win the National Championship and I don't think any of them can say that their first round games vs Patriot League teams were easy games or "warm ups" as you call it.

(Yes I know Delaware won in 2003, but the team that they beat in the first round 48-7 SIU is from the Gateway one of the conferences that is "Light years ahead" of the Patriot League.

UMASS also won in 98, but their first round win was against a Southland team)

[lugo02]

In the past 8 years when teams from the non-cupcake eastern conference (A10, Southern) went all the way to the finals. Their average magin of victory against first round opponents from the Gateway, Southland and Big Sky, appears to about the same or larger than their average margin of victory against Patriot, MEAC and OVC teams in first round play


First round victories for teams from the East who made it all the way to the Championship game

1998
Ga Southern (Southern) def. Colgate (Patriot) 49-28 (Warm-up)
UMASS (A-10) def. McNeese St (Southland) 21-19

1999
Ga Southern def. Nothern Arizona (Big Sky) 72-29 (This is what I call a warm up game)

2000
Ga. Southern def. McNeese St 42-17 (Warm-up)

2001
Furman (Southern) def. WKU (Gateway) 24-20

2002
(No team from the eastern conferences made it to the finals)

2003
Delaware (Southern) def. Southern Illionios(Gateway) 48-7 (Warm-up)

(Colgate defeated UMASS 28-7, however Colgate was an auto-bid from a cup-cake league, but based on SeatleGriz theory this game should have been a warm-up for UMASS)

2004
JMU(A-10) def. Lehigh(Patriot) 14-13

2005
ASU(Southern) def. Lafayette (Patriot) 34-23

So in those years that a team from the east made it to the finals, most of their first round warm up games were against teams from the conferences that are "Light years ahead" of teams from the Patriot et. al.

[skinny_uncle]

Regionalization is about selling tickets. Money talks. It won't change. Being fair has nothing to do with it.

[AmsterBison]

As long as DI-AA doesn't switch to DII's craptacular version of regionalization, I can't see getting to huffed about this. However, even the current version of regionalization doesn't benefit a lot of teams... it'd be kind of interesting to put a dollar amount on how much DI-AA hosts are actually getting from selling tickets to fans of the visiting team.

FYI, the craptacular version of regionalization for DI-AA would be to divide the country up into four regions (all the teams from one conference end up in the same region - and they all stay there until all but one is eliminated). There are a whole lot of rematches and attendance is horrible. Don't let it happen to DI-AA.

[th0m]

For the uninformed, what is this craptacular version of regionalization in DII you're talking about AmsterBison?

[JohnStOnge]

Want to hear other peoples thoughts on this one.

As a Griz fan, every year I see some of the teams from the East coast get cupcake match-ups because of regionalization. For example, who gets Lafayette, Hampton, E Illinois and UT-Martin this year? Not the Griz, because they are in the West.

I am putting this out to AGS since I don't have any first hand knowledge of the teams I have just trashed (sorry), but need to know if most feel that East coast teams have the chance to get a wiener team in the first round because I-AA is so East coast heavy with teams.

Am I nuts, or just being a baby?

Depends on how you look at it. This year you might get McNeese, which will be the lowest rated team in the playoffs. Also, how'd you like to be a Southland fan and know that you're likely going to have to either go to Missoula...where the Grizz are historically 20 - 4 in the playoffs... in the first round or go there eventually if you win early round games?

[Cincy App]

Regionalization is about selling tickets. Money talks. It won't change. Being fair has nothing to do with it.

Bingo! It's also about cutting travel costs. As you said, "money talks"!

I'm not a big fan of regionalization but at least the championship is decided on the field instead of by computer!

[SoCon48]

If I were Montana, I'd keep quiet. Since 1989, Montana has had the priviledge of opening the play-offs at home 11 out of 13 times during that period.

Too, Cal-Poly bit the dust last year immediately after their win over the Griz. Not to sure I'd be so quick to claim they trounce ASU and other east team's opponents.

[kardplayer]

Don't forget that the Griz would have gotten one of those cupcake schools (Colgate) in 2003 had they won their first round game

[JMU-MRD-DAD]

If I were Montana, I'd keep quiet. Since 1989, Montana has had the priviledge of opening the play-offs at home 11 out of 13 times during that period.

Too, Cal-Poly bit the dust last year immediately after their win over the Griz. Not to sure I'd be so quick to claim they trounce ASU and other east team's opponents.
I would have to agree that money talks here and the fact Montana should not worry about cupcake teams because there are none in the playoffs. Sure, it's an advantage to play all home games....but you have to look at the big picture.

Go Dukes

[65 Pard]

That stupid kind of comment about Cupcake teams often come back to bite those who make them.....only fitting

[Tribe4SF]

This year the Griz probably get McNeese. That should be a cupcake with a candle on it. They won't be the worst team in the playoffs (see Lafayette), but if you had your pick, they'd be on the short list.

Be glad you've got a great program, great stadium, and great fans that guarantee you a home game....and quit whining!;)

[elkmcc]

While I have to disagree with my fellow Griz fan RE "cupcake teams" I do however believe that the western teams are sometimes dealt a more difficult opening hand in the playoffs. Montana surely could have gotten by some of the playoff field last year if they had not been forced to play CP in the opening round (after playing them in the regular season).

On the other hand I do feel Montana is given preferential treatment in the playoffs due to their facilities and attendance history and lately because of their continued string of record setting consecutive playoff appearances (14). IMO the above mentioned reasons will also contribute to the Griz being given a #2 seed. I might be wrong, but I doubt it.

[Ronbo]

This year the Griz probably get McNeese. That should be a cupcake with a candle on it. They won't be the worst team in the playoffs (see Lafayette), but if you had your pick, they'd be on the short list.

Be glad you've got a great program, great stadium, and great fans that guarantee you a home game....and quit whining!;)

There is a 30-40% of Griz nation that constantly whine.

[kardplayer]

...Montana surely could have gotten by some of the playoff field last year if they had not been forced to play CP in the opening round (after playing them in the regular season)...



Is the goal to get through some of the field or all of the field?

[Bizon]

My question is where are the west teams?

The best team in the west, the one that just passed you in both the Sagarin and Keeper polls will be home waiting for 2008.

[kardplayer]

Also, keep in mind that even though it had a ridiculous bracket last year, the year before, according to the admittedly controversial GPI, Montana was the 9th best team in the playoffs, got to host a home game, and faced the 14th best team in the playoffs (who they beat by 49 points).

I gotta believe it all works itself out in the end.

[kardplayer]

I really feel like I could spend my whole day in this thread. Kudos to the Griz for building such a tremendous home environment and advantage that they are basically assured a first round home game forever (I mean that sincerely).

It takes some real cojones to then whine about occasionally having a tougher first round opponent.

[AZGrizFan]

I really feel like I could spend my whole day in this thread. Kudos to the Griz for building such a tremendous home environment and advantage that they are basically assured a first round home game forever (I mean that sincerely).

It takes some real cojones to then whine about occasionally having a tougher first round opponent.

Well, if nothing else, we KNOW we've got real cajones...:eyebrow: :smiley_wi (at least our defense does...) :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

[DB_Atlantic10]

In the past 8 years when teams from the non-cupcake eastern conference (A10, Southern) went all the way to the finals. Their average magin of victory against first round opponents from the Gateway, Southland and Big Sky, appears to about the same or larger than their average margin of victory against Patriot, MEAC and OVC teams in first round play


First round victories for teams from the East who made it all the way to the Championship game

1998
Ga Southern (Southern) def. Colgate (Patriot) 49-28 (Warm-up)
UMASS (A-10) def. McNeese St (Southland) 21-19

1999
Ga Southern def. Nothern Arizona (Big Sky) 72-29 (This is what I call a warm up game)

2000
Ga. Southern def. McNeese St 42-17 (Warm-up)

2001
Furman (Southern) def. WKU (Gateway) 24-20

2002
(No team from the eastern conferences made it to the finals)

2003
Delaware (Southern) def. Southern Illionios(Gateway) 48-7 (Warm-up)

(Colgate defeated UMASS 28-7, however Colgate was an auto-bid from a cup-cake league, but based on SeatleGriz theory this game should have been a warm-up for UMASS)

2004
JMU(A-10) def. Lehigh(Patriot) 14-13

2005
ASU(Southern) def. Lafayette (Patriot) 34-23

So in those years that a team from the east made it to the finals, most of their first round warm up games were against teams from the conferences that are "Light years ahead" of teams from the Patriot et. al. Great post:thumbsup:

[Griz Grunt]

Personally (NTIMs), i'd prefer the playoffs return to the pre 9/11 format.xcoffeex

[Tailbone]

The biggest travesty (IMO) resulting from regionalization is that many teams (and fans) will not, and may never, get to be part of the washington-Griz experience.

I don't mean to be a homer but ......ask anyone who's been there.

[JaxSinfonian]

While I agree that the Griz will almost always get a home game in the first round, I still think with regionalization, the West is almost always stuck with teams from the Southland, Gateway, and Big Sky. These conferences are light years ahead of Patriot, MEAC and OVC. Where is the Wests cupcake game?
Light years by whose measure?

The latest GPI isn't up yet, but here's what it said after last week (http://www.i-aa.org/articles/artfiles/82166_confrank.txt):

8. Ohio Valley Conference (50.21)
9. Southland Conference (51.00)

As for the teams from both those conferences that actually made the playoffs (again, last week's GPI (http://www.i-aa.org/section_front.asp?arttypeid=564)):

25 - UT-Martin
30 - Eastern Illinois
39 - McNeese State

McNeese is ranked just behind Sam Houston from their own league, and behind three OVC teams overall. In fact, the highest-rated team with a Southland connection is Central Arkansas at 28th, still moving up from DII.

As a Jax State fan I've seen both leagues up close. The OVC has been steadily improving over the last three years, and the Southland isn't what it used to be. Kinda makes me wish JSU was back in the ol' SFL this season ... I think the Gamecocks could have taken that autobid.

With all the OVC-trashing on this forum over the last few years, I wonder how long it will take the anti-Southland bias to show up.

[JMU_MRD'03-'07]

I don't know how its fair that Furman has to go all the way out to MSU in the first round.

[griz8791]

I really feel like I could spend my whole day in this thread. . . . It takes some real cojones to then whine about occasionally having a tougher first round opponent.

Some of us get it, kardplayer. Thank you for not spending the whole day driving home the point. I'm with the guy who suggested we just shut up and keep our heads down.

[89Hen]

Am I nuts, or just being a baby?
Probably a little of both. :p No offense to our Cowboy bretheren, but McNeese is a relative cupcake this year SG. They and Lafayette are the only teams that wouldn't have made the field without their autos.

Since regionalization you haven't faced a team in the first round with less than three losses. What else do you want?

McNeese 7-4
Cal Poly 8-3
Western Illinois 8-3
Northwestern St 8-3
Northwestern St 9-3
Northwestern St 8-3

[Peems]

man i wish we could play northwestern state again.