UND accepting nickname ideas

[IBleedYellow]

PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LET IT BE THE NORTH STARS!

[SDFS]

This entire mess has been hijacked because nobody wants to offend anyone..... the nickname that I would support - Nokota was eliminated because people were confusing Nokota with Nakota... then they said it was because of native american imagery. It's a horse and the origin of the name is NOrth daKOTA - which gives you the name "NOKOTA". What does a horse have to do with native american imagery and if you can not have a horse - how the hell can you have a buffalo.

The task force is also having Kelly O'Keefe, a consultant with Padilla, look into the suggestion of "Nokota," after committee member and UND alumnus Lowell Schweigert asked why it was on the list of excluded name possibilities with inappropriate or legally unavailable names.
Committee member and United Tribes Technical College President Leander "Russ" McDonald said the word "Nakota"—spelled slightly differently—is a Native American tribe and UND General Counsel Julie Evans said it was excluded because of NCAA stipulation that prohibits the use of Native American imagery.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/education/3747860-und-nickname-committee-finishesnarrowing-down-thousands-ideas

[BisonFan02]

This entire mess has been hijacked because nobody wants to offend anyone..... the nickname that I would support - Nokota was eliminated because people were confusing Nokota with Nakota... then they said it was because of native american imagery. It's a horse and the origin of the name is NOrth daKOTA - which gives you the name "NOKOTA". What does a horse have to do with native american imagery and if you can not have a horse - how the hell can you have a buffalo.

The task force is also having Kelly O'Keefe, a consultant with Padilla, look into the suggestion of "Nokota," after committee member and UND alumnus Lowell Schweigert asked why it was on the list of excluded name possibilities with inappropriate or legally unavailable names.
Committee member and United Tribes Technical College President Leander "Russ" McDonald said the word "Nakota"—spelled slightly differently—is a Native American tribe and UND General Counsel Julie Evans said it was excluded because of NCAA stipulation that prohibits the use of Native American imagery.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/education/3747860-und-nickname-committee-finishesnarrowing-down-thousands-ideas



Don't drag NDSU and the Bison into this.......100% UNDs gong show.

[SDFS]

Sun Dogs is second? Who TF is voting on this?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

At this point, I am happy as long as it stays in second - plus we got rid of "Spirit", "Blaze", "Force" and "Pride" that is encouraging news. My guess for the final three: Riders, North Stars and North Dakota "no nickname". Which means it is going to be no nickname or Riders.

[BisonFan02]

At this point, I am happy as long as it stays in second - plus we got rid of "Spirit", "Blaze", "Force" and "Pride" that is encouraging news. My guess for the final three: Riders, North Stars and North Dakota "no nickname". Which means it is going to be no nickname or Riders.

Which means its going to be "Fighting Sioux"

[SDFS]

Don't drag NDSU and the Bison into this.......100% UNDs gong show.

I said Buffalo, and it is not UND that is stopping the name Nokota - that is the "NCAA stipulation" - which makes no sense.

[SDFS]

Which means its going to be "Fighting Sioux"

No they will be the University of North Dakota. I really don't get this line of thought. If UND changes the nickname to "North Stars" a very large number of alumni and fans with move along and go with the new nickname. But, you will have a number of fans that will only go by "Fighting Sioux" whether they pick a new name or not. It will be the same group no difference. This is not unique to UND, I have read a number of articles about alumni at Marquette, University of Miami of Ohio, and Eastern Michigan who are still not happy about the name change. I don't expect it to be any different at UND.

EMU - changed the name in 1991 - but used it on band uniforms as late as 2013 http://www.annarbor.com/news/group-protests-eastern-michigan-universitys-use-of-huron-logo/

UM - I mean that transition was about as smooth as it gets - 2005 they changed the name again.. with most people thinking that Warriors was coming back..
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/18/sports/ncaabasketball/at-marquette-hawks-dont-fly-and-gold-doesnt-glitter.html?_r=0

Its human nature - some people just don't like change or being told what to do... It really should not be shocking news to anyone.

[BisonFan02]

No they will be the University of North Dakota. I really don't get this line of thought. If UND changes the nickname to "North Stars" a very large number of alumni and fans with move along and go with the new nickname. But, you will have a number of fans that will only go by "Fighting Sioux" whether they pick a new name or not. It will be the same group no difference. This is not unique to UND, I have read a number of articles about alumni at Marquette, University of Miami of Ohio, and Eastern Michigan who are still not happy about the name change. I don't expect it to be any different at UND.

EMU - changed the name in 1991 - but used it on band uniforms as late as 2013 http://www.annarbor.com/news/group-protests-eastern-michigan-universitys-use-of-huron-logo/

UM - I mean that transition was about as smooth as it gets - 2005 they changed the name again.. with most people thinking that Warriors was coming back..
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/18/sports/ncaabasketball/at-marquette-hawks-dont-fly-and-gold-doesnt-glitter.html?_r=0

Its human nature - some people just don't like change. It really should not be shocking news to anyone.

.....they are already "North Dakota" today....how is that working out for them?

[SDFS]

.....they are already "North Dakota" today....how is that working out for them?

As long as we stay out of trouble with the NCAA - I am fine with it. But, I would like to see a new name chosen to move on.. I was hopefully for Nokota and thought that it would work fine or one of the aviation related names. Now, I am clinging to the Riders or nothing.

[BluBengal07]

Speak it into the atmosphere...


-UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20846&stc=1



https://cdn.myfonts.net/a_92/u/ff/6cdd3ea7353bef6f043ec4cfe53eb4.gif


https://cdn.myfonts.net/a_92/u/e2/2475e24d1c8e876fd425708bed0ae3.gif

[BluBengal07]

proposed marching band uniforms could reflect Madison Scout Drum & Bugle Corps. if they're about that life...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTngM5FzKf0Hm5azrAvNUsrAal9nniK8 07IbVjeDO2B9C9LdVi-KQ UND could replace the red with their current gold. but red pops.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ee/41/ac/ee41ac9e4a211a33134f9574704b0c9b.jpg

[Bisonator]

proposed marching band uniforms could reflect Madison Scout Drum & Bugle Corps. if they're about that life...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTngM5FzKf0Hm5azrAvNUsrAal9nniK8 07IbVjeDO2B9C9LdVi-KQ UND could replace the red with their current gold. but red pops.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ee/41/ac/ee41ac9e4a211a33134f9574704b0c9b.jpg

UND doesn't have any gold. Did you mean pink?:D

[BluBengal07]

UND doesn't have any gold. Did you mean pink?:D

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... guess what, it was a web pic of NDSU. practically the same green(old). but still, Madison Scouts might be a nice platform.

[UNDColorado]

Sun Dogs is second? Who TF is voting on this?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

My thoughts exactly. Whats a sundog logo going to be? A expletive rainbow around the sun? This whole process has been terrible.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Guys, I've already decided, it's Rough Riders. Let's not sweat the rest of the dog & pony show. This is over.xthumbsupx

[NDSUSR]

UND Fighting Green NodakRoughriding North Dakota Sun Star Hawkdogs?

[Milkman]

I've got one word for you sir, thundercougarfalconbird.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

It will be North Dakota so the arrogant, idiot fans can keep wearing there Sioux stuff. I hope the Big ten votes not to play Und anymore because of this.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It will be North Dakota so the arrogant, idiot fans can keep wearing there Sioux stuff. I hope the Big ten votes not to play Und anymore because of this.

I see a lot of you saying this as if it should be dishonorable to go with nothing. You look a bit childish. If they did want to do this so they could wear their old stuff wgaf. It's not like everybody that owns Sioux gear is just gonna toss it anyway.

Going with no name is the second option if you ask me. I guess we should get all up in arms about that!

[Bisonator]

I see a lot of you saying this as if it should be dishonorable to go with nothing. You look a bit childish. If they did want to do this so they could wear their old stuff wgaf. It's not like everybody that owns Sioux gear is just gonna toss it anyway.

Going with no name is the second option if you ask me. I guess we should get all up in arms about that!

Probably not dishonorable but it may very well be illegal and end up costing ND taxpayers more money down the road. UND ****ed this whole deal up about 50 years ago and they are still ****ing it up. xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Probably not dishonorable but it may very well be illegal and end up costing ND taxpayers more money down the road. UND ****ed this whole deal up about 50 years ago and they are still ****ing it up. xlolx

It will be illegal? What am I missing Nator? Holy crap I thought I was fairly well versed in all this after years of watching the back & forth but I guess not.

[Bisonator]

It will be illegal? What am I missing Nator? Holy crap I thought I was fairly well versed in all this after years of watching the back & forth but I guess not.

I believe the NCAA settlement agreement required UND to select a new nickname. Not sure if selecting no nickname is an option even though those in charge say it is would the NCAA allow it to continue?

[SUPharmacist]

I've got one word for you sir, thundercougarfalconbird.

Scrap everything else, as usual the late entry wins. Good old Futurama.

[BisonFan02]

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/4/5266903_4f62d2f35e.jpg

[Bisonoline]

What a clown show. But then again should I have expected any different?xsmileyclapx

[taper]

I believe the NCAA settlement agreement required UND to select a new nickname. Not sure if selecting no nickname is an option even though those in charge say it is would the NCAA allow it to continue?

The settlement did say they need a new nickname, so they were in violation of the settlement. This is currently irrelevant because the settlement also had a timeout built in. There is absolutely no NCAA penalty for not having a nickname, nor any requirement schools must have one. This applies to everyone.

[Bisonator]

The settlement did say they need a new nickname, so they were in violation of the settlement. This is currently irrelevant because the settlement also had a timeout built in. There is absolutely no NCAA penalty for not having a nickname, nor any requirement schools must have one. This applies to everyone.

If that's the case then let the **** show continue. xlolx

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

http://www.startribune.com/university-of-north-dakota-trims-nickname-candidates-to-7/307569271/

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://www.startribune.com/university-of-north-dakota-trims-nickname-candidates-to-7/307569271/

Of course, the 3rd comment in the list is from lakes trying to convince everybody how irrelevant UND is.

[GoAgs72]

Dakota is also a Native American tribe name - a branch of the Sioux. So I propose eliminating Dakota and calling the two North Dakota teams "North" and "North State" . Maybe North State Bison and North Roughriders. Also applies to South Dakota teams - Dakota should not be acceptable to NCAA.

[clenz]

Dakota is also a Native American tribe name - a branch of the Sioux. So I propose eliminating Dakota and calling the two North Dakota teams "North" and "North State" .
That's the biggest hypocrisy of it all I think. The amount of Native American names all over the US, but especially Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and the Dakotas is just insane.

At one point I thought I had read that the tribes actually were okay with the use of the name/imagery and voted to allow UND to keep the name but the leaders didn't care what the tribe actually thought and told UND to change it.

Maybe I'm wrong on that though

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Dakota is also a Native American tribe name - a branch of the Sioux. So I propose eliminating Dakota and calling the two North Dakota teams "North" and "North State" . Maybe North State Bison and North Roughriders. Also applies to South Dakota teams - Dakota should not be acceptable to NCAA.

This is taking absurdity to new levels.

Just like Irish. Show me the Irish people who are offended at the name and I'd get on board. Until then, it's inconsequential.

[BisonTru]

That's the biggest hypocrisy of it all I think. The amount of Native American names all over the US, but especially Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and the Dakotas is just insane.

At one point I thought I had read that the tribes actually were okay with the use of the name/imagery and voted to allow UND to keep the name but the leaders didn't care what the tribe actually thought and told UND to change it.

Maybe I'm wrong on that though

IIRC, they needed approval from two tribes. One voted to allow the name. The elders at the other tribe never let it go to a vote. Some believe they would have voted to allow the name, but we'll never know.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Dakota is also a Native American tribe name - a branch of the Sioux. So I propose eliminating Dakota and calling the two North Dakota teams "North" and "North State" . Maybe North State Bison and North Roughriders. Also applies to South Dakota teams - Dakota should not be acceptable to NCAA.

Yeah, that's the thing I chuckle about too with all this bull****. Look at the names of towns and so forth but that's all A OK. xlolx

A lot of racist towns across this land. Change those names...immediately!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That's the biggest hypocrisy of it all I think. The amount of Native American names all over the US, but especially Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and the Dakotas is just insane.

At one point I thought I had read that the tribes actually were okay with the use of the name/imagery and voted to allow UND to keep the name but the leaders didn't care what the tribe actually thought and told UND to change it.

Maybe I'm wrong on that though

****ing burned AGAIN!!! I have got to learn to flip the page.

[Hambone]

That's the biggest hypocrisy of it all I think. The amount of Native American names all over the US, but especially Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and the Dakotas is just insane.

At one point I thought I had read that the tribes actually were okay with the use of the name/imagery and voted to allow UND to keep the name but the leaders didn't care what the tribe actually thought and told UND to change it.

Maybe I'm wrong on that though

One of the two required tribes voted on it and it passed (Spirit Lake tribe) so they would have had permission from them. The Standing Rock tribe leaders did not allow the members to vote - although I'm unsure if there was any type of polling of members I recall that it would have likely received approval if a vote was allowed.

[Catatonic]

IIRC, they needed approval from two tribes. One voted to allow the name. The elders at the other tribe never let it go to a vote. Some believe they would have voted to allow the name, but we'll never know.

Why didn't they just change the name to the tribe that approved? The fighting Spirit Lake Souix?

The state fruit is the chokecherry. The UND Chokecherries would have been my choice.

[clenz]

One of the two required tribes voted on it and it passed (Spirit Lake tribe) so they would have had permission from them. The Standing Rock tribe leaders did not allow the members to vote - although I'm unsure if there was any type of polling of members I recall that it would have likely received approval if a vote was allowed.
High school in the Iowa Great Lakes is the Spirit Lake Indians...

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1555517712/SL_INDIAN_HEAD_2COLOR.jpghttp://www.spirit-lake.k12.ia.us/templates/spirit/images/sl-homeslice_01.jpg


The amount of "Sioux" and "Indian" named things in NW Iowa, SW MN and SE SD is damn near too many to count

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

They should call themselves the lawyers and then they can still cheer "Let's Go Sue!".

[Mattymc727]

Im Irish, I find Notre Dame's nickname and logo incredibly offensive. I want it banned immediately.

Now that i think of it, I want to Boston Celtics logo changed too.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Im Irish, I find Notre Dame's nickname and logo incredibly offensive. I want it banned immediately.

Now that i think of it, I want to Boston Celtics logo changed too.

Very compelling.

[Bisonator]

I'm a native North Dakotan. I'm offended by UND using North Dakota!:D

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'm a native North Dakotan. I'm offended by UND using North Dakota!:D

I've been saying that for years.

[Hammersmith]

One of the two required tribes voted on it and it passed (Spirit Lake tribe) so they would have had permission from them. The Standing Rock tribe leaders did not allow the members to vote - although I'm unsure if there was any type of polling of members I recall that it would have likely received approval if a vote was allowed.

The Spirit Lake vote was non-binding. The NCAA required formal, written approval from the tribal government and that was never given, even after the vote. And not that it matters that much at this point, but turnout for that vote was about 11% with approval numbers in the low 60s. So about 7% of Spirit Lake voters came out in approval for UND's use of the name.

As for Standing Rock, they had zero interest in giving permission. They even went through a complete(or almost complete) change of tribal leadership in the middle of the grace period, and the new leadership had exactly the same interest in giving UND permission: none.

The last real chance for UND to get permission to use the name passed around 35-45 years ago during Clifford's administration. Had he brought the tribes into the process of nickname usage back then, there might have been enough "joint-ownership" of the name to develop for the tribes to go to bat for UND when they needed it like the Seminoles did for FSU. And maybe they would have had fewer 'Sammy the Sioux' or 'Siouxper Dog' incidents as well.

Oh well, water under the bridge at this point.

[AmsterBison]

Bottom line: Tribal councils are the entity recognized by the government as being able to speak for a tribe. UND should have been working with them over the last half century instead of ignoring, insulting, and finally trying to circumvent them. UND must have a letter from every single Sioux tribal council in the nation asking UND to drop the nickname.

I wish this issue would go away because the arguments I've heard over the last 50 years aren't getting any less moronic.

[eaglesdare]

Name them the "Western Star" after the Great Northern Railway Train.

[1984]

Bottom line: Tribal councils are the entity recognized by the government as being able to speak for a tribe. UND should have been working with them over the last half century instead of ignoring, insulting, and finally trying to circumvent them. UND must have a letter from every single Sioux tribal council in the nation asking UND to drop the nickname.

I wish this issue would go away because the arguments I've heard over the last 50 years aren't getting any less moronic.


UND did work with the tribe. In fact The tribe in rituals gave their word that UND could use the name forever and ever. Also most of Standing Rock is in South Dakota. The political power is in South Dakota. The leaders were elected by them. The part of Standing Rock in North Dakota is small compared to the size of the entire reservation.
Lastly the current outgoing President of UND has a vested interest in NOT keeping the name as North Dakota. It is my opinion that he will manipulate to make sure a different name is chosen prior to his leaving.

[Hammerhead]

North Dakota also uses the image of Red Tomahawk for state highway signs and the Highway Patrol logo.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-05WX0tDxNj8/Tu0OR4MPr1I/AAAAAAAAAc0/KmwBErp-wFc/s1600/NDHighwaySign2.png

http://www.newsdakota.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/NDHP-Logo-161x161.png



That's the biggest hypocrisy of it all I think. The amount of Native American names all over the US, but especially Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and the Dakotas is just insane.

At one point I thought I had read that the tribes actually were okay with the use of the name/imagery and voted to allow UND to keep the name but the leaders didn't care what the tribe actually thought and told UND to change it.

Maybe I'm wrong on that though

[Laker]

Name them the "Western Star" after the Great Northern Railway Train.

Or Blaze Star, after the "exotic dancer" who just died.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/blaze-starr-striptease-artist-without-apology-dies-at-83/2015/06/16/491b196a-143b-11e5-9ddc-e3353542100c_story.html

[1984]

So then to we strike the names of all states and landmarks that are Native American in origin? We will be changing thousands of names across this country. It would be a total erasure of all reminders of the first Americans if we do.

[clenz]

UND did work with the tribe. In fact The tribe in rituals gave their word that UND could use the name forever and ever. Also most of Standing Rock is in South Dakota. The political power is in South Dakota. The leaders were elected by them. The part of Standing Rock in North Dakota is small compared to the size of the entire reservation.
Lastly the current outgoing President of UND has a vested interest in NOT keeping the name as North Dakota. It is my opinion that he will manipulate to make sure a different name is chosen prior to his leaving.
That's why I defended UND at the start of this, though the longer it's gone on the more I am growing to dislike them. It sounded like, from the start, the tribe members of each tribe were okay with the name, but the "government" didn't care what the people thought and voted against it.

It, honestly, sounds as though UND was f'ed over by the NCAA from the start. They made up this imaginary list labeling schools at hateful and that caused other schools to not want to play them in sports. That got the Tribe members on board and it just freaking snow balled.

[Professor Chaos]

That's why I defended UND at the start of this, though the longer it's gone on the more I am growing to dislike them. It sounded like, from the start, the tribe members of each tribe were okay with the name, but the "government" didn't care what the people thought and voted against it.

It, honestly, sounds as though UND was f'ed over by the NCAA from the start. They made up this imaginary list labeling schools at hateful and that caused other schools to not want to play them in sports. That got the Tribe members on board and it just freaking snow balled.
They were to put it bluntly. However, I've never considering them blame free. It was clear to see that this issue was smoldering for a long time. I think there was a piece in SI about Native American groups lobbying for a change in the late 90s and UND did very little to placate that and basically thumbed their noses at them. It's similar to the Washington Redskins stance just a year or two ago and they're going down the same road because they've made no effort whatsoever to work with the groups who claim offense to their nickname (although to me the Redskins seems a far more derogatory nickname than the Fighting Sioux ever was).

[Hambone]

Definitely agree that UND should have done a lot more a ewhile ago (subsequent to the peace pipe ceremony - thinking more like 90s - 00s) to work with the tribes and maybe, just maybe, this whole issue would have been a lot smoother. However, even if UND got permission to use the name, all it would take is for one tribal gov't at some point in the future to rescind that support and you're back up **** creek without a paddle.

I will always love the Fighting Sioux name, but this whole process has been a huge cluster****** and has been handles terribly for a very long time. We just need a new nickname so that we can move on with life (although there will be lots of folks that will cling to the old name for a very long time). I just hope we don't end up as just North Dakota with no nickname - that will only lead to trouble down the road IMO.

[BisonFan02]

Definitely agree that UND should have done a lot more a ewhile ago (subsequent to the peace pipe ceremony - thinking more like 90s - 00s) to work with the tribes and maybe, just maybe, this whole issue would have been a lot smoother. However, even if UND got permission to use the name, all it would take is for one tribal gov't at some point in the future to rescind that support and you're back up **** creek without a paddle.

I will always love the Fighting Sioux name, but this whole process has been a huge cluster****** and has been handles terribly for a very long time. We just need a new nickname so that we can move on with life (although there will be lots of folks that will cling to the old name for a very long time). I just hope we don't end up as just North Dakota with no nickname - that will only lead to trouble down the road IMO.

Yup.....the University of North Dakota............................................ ...........................................

Fighting Sioux.

If they go the no nickname route, do you think the school will take a stance on the Sioux merchandise and the "pageantry" (aka, the playing to the crowd and encouraging the Sioux Ya Ya stuff)?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yup.....the University of North Dakota............................................ ...........................................

Fighting Sioux.

If they go the no nickname route, do you think the school will take a stance on the Sioux merchandise and the "pageantry" (aka, the playing to the crowd and encouraging the Sioux Ya Ya stuff)?

Honestly, why does anyone care about this small stuff? Think of what it would be like to have your mascot and associated traditions stripped from your school. It would truly suck. I doubt the school will be suporting much of what the name stands for but the fans will...of course they will for a generation...it's what they were brought into or came to on their own and have lived with for a good deal of their lives.

This acting like their fans should just drop everything they've been behind and walk away from it as if it's the plague is really ****ing dumb.

I wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it. Why the hell should anyone expect them to do it?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Honestly, why does anyone care about this small stuff? Think of what it would be like to have your mascot and associated traditions stripped from your school. It would truly suck. I doubt the school will be suporting much of what the name stands for but the fans will...of course they will for a generation...it's what they were brought into or came to on their own and have lived with for a good deal of their lives.

This acting like their fans should just drop everything they've been behind and walk away from it as if it's the plague is really ****ing dumb.

I wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it. Why the hell should anyone expect them to do it?

If they told me we couldn't be the Bison I'd totally go back to the Farmers, and I am in no way a farmer.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

If they told me we couldn't be the Bison I'd totally go back to the Farmers, and I am in no way a farmer.

Doubt it but you know you better than I do. Just ain't in the general human nature of things. I know I'd keep all my gear and still wear it whenever I felt like.

Hell when we went to Maroon in 1996 I wouldn't wear or buy the new color until we won a NC. That's just a damn clolor that our own administration did unforced by outsiders. xlolx

[BisonFan02]

Honestly, why does anyone care about this small stuff? Think of what it would be like to have your mascot and associated traditions stripped from your school. It would truly suck. I doubt the school will be suporting much of what the name stands for but the fans will...of course they will for a generation...it's what they were brought into or came to on their own and have lived with for a good deal of their lives.

This acting like their fans should just drop everything they've been behind and walk away from it as if it's the plague is really ****ing dumb.

I wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it. Why the hell should anyone expect them to do it?

Don't disagree....I personally don't think they should have to do a damn thing, but that isn't what's happening. It was more of a question about going the "no name" route and if the school will then distance themselves from today's status quo (or is the point of going "no name" entirely to stay unofficially the Sioux). I think selecting an actual name would accelerate the change/acceptance, but that is just my opinion.

[clenz]

Doubt it but you know you better than I do. Just ain't in the general human nature of things. I know I'd keep all my gear and still wear it whenever I felt like.

Hell when we went to Maroon in 1996 I wouldn't wear or buy the new color until we won a NC. That's just a damn clolor that our own administration did unforced by outsiders. xlolx
Hell, it's been well over a decade since UNI moved from a true old gold to a yellow and I still refuse to wear a yellow UNI shirt or "buy into" that our official school color is old gold but we use the same yellow as the University of Iowa and Iowa State University.

To have the image of the university stripped would be terrible.

If I was a Marquette fan I'd still wear my Warrior gear non stop.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Doubt it but you know you better than I do. Just ain't in the general human nature of things. I know I'd keep all my gear and still wear it whenever I felt like.

Hell when we went to Maroon in 1996 I wouldn't wear or buy the new color until we won a NC. That's just a damn clolor that our own administration did unforced by outsiders. xlolx

That's a personal choice on my part. Don't know how crazy it would be. Our colors are already designed with agriculture in mind.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Don't disagree....I personally don't think they should have to do a damn thing, but that isn't what's happening. It was more of a question about going the "no name" route and if the school will then distance themselves from today's status quo (or is the point of going "no name" entirely to stay unofficially the Sioux). I think selecting an actual name would accelerate the change/acceptance, but that is just my opinion.

Agreed on all points. At this point it's certainly best to choose and move.

[344Johnson]

Honestly, why does anyone care about this small stuff? Think of what it would be like to have your mascot and associated traditions stripped from your school. It would truly suck. I doubt the school will be suporting much of what the name stands for but the fans will...of course they will for a generation...it's what they were brought into or came to on their own and have lived with for a good deal of their lives.

This acting like their fans should just drop everything they've been behind and walk away from it as if it's the plague is really ****ing dumb.

I wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it. Why the hell should anyone expect them to do it?

I have a similar stance to NoDak. In fact, I think NDSU should have never become the Bison. Farmers are bad@$$.

Cheer for the school and whatever name they are called.

[BisonFan02]

Speaking of nicknames.....

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?154671-2014-2015-Avatar-wager-UND-Nickname

I'll be taking suggestions the entire month of July. :D

[Hambone]

Unfortunately it doesn't appear that Darell is active here anymore. If that is the case I guess I could fall on the sword for him in the name of fun.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I have a similar stance to NoDak. In fact, I think NDSU should have never become the Bison. Farmers are bad@$$.

Cheer for the school and whatever name they are called.

I think maybe 1/4 of my things say Bison. Everything says North Dakota State or NDSU.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Unfortunately it doesn't appear that Darell is active here anymore. If that is the case I guess I could fall on the sword for him in the name of fun.

Holy ****, I didn't even notice. 7 months now.

[BisonFan02]

Unfortunately it doesn't appear that Darell is active here anymore. If that is the case I guess I could fall on the sword for him in the name of fun.

No worries. If he doesn't show...I put a screen snapshot of the results in my signature until I get bored of it. Then it will be active. :D

[SDFS]

Just when you thought we might this might end..... coming soon to a campus near you...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wisconsin-school-district-bans-american-indian-team-logos/ar-AAbQjqO

Starting this fall, public school students in Wisconsin's capital city cannot wear shirts, hats or other items that display the name, logo or mascot of any team that portrays a "negative stereotype" of American Indians. Those who do must change or face suspension or expulsion.

[Laker]

Just when you thought we might this might end..... coming soon to a campus near you...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wisconsin-school-district-bans-american-indian-team-logos/ar-AAbQjqO

Starting this fall, public school students in Wisconsin's capital city cannot wear shirts, hats or other items that display the name, logo or mascot of any team that portrays a "negative stereotype" of American Indians. Those who do must change or face suspension or expulsion.

Even the ACLU didn't agree with this decision.

[1984]

Just when you thought we might this might end..... coming soon to a campus near you...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wisconsin-school-district-bans-american-indian-team-logos/ar-AAbQjqO

Starting this fall, public school students in Wisconsin's capital city cannot wear shirts, hats or other items that display the name, logo or mascot of any team that portrays a "negative stereotype" of American Indians. Those who do must change or face suspension or expulsion.

that could easy end up in court with a good chance of the school losing.

[Old Gregg]

How about "North Dakota BAILEYS"! The creamy white always falls from the sky.

[BisonFan02]

How about "North Dakota BAILEYS"! The creamy white always falls from the sky.

LOL.....who the hell is trolling as "Old Gregg"?

[Old Gregg]

LOL.....who the hell is trolling as "Old Gregg"?

No troll here. Just a lover of FCS football! Thought I would join in on all the fun, I just found the site. And I am enjoying a nice Baileys right now. I actually think all the name changing is not right....I like the Redskins and the Indians too.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

No troll here. Just a lover of FCS football! Thought I would join in on all the fun, I just found the site. And I am enjoying a nice Baileys right now. I actually think all the name changing is not right....I like the Redskins and the Indians too.

Ya gotta admit, sometimes Bailey's hits the spot.

[Catsfan90]

Ya gotta admit, sometimes Bailey's hits the spot.
Absolutely, best addition to coffee there is.

[Thundar]

Absolutely, best addition to coffee there is.

That and kahlua or however you spell it

[BisonFan02]

No troll here. Just a lover of FCS football! Thought I would join in on all the fun, I just found the site. And I am enjoying a nice Baileys right now. I actually think all the name changing is not right....I like the Redskins and the Indians too.

Riiiiiiight.......xlolx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxaP19pY1FI

[Old Gregg]

Riiiiiiight.......xlolx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxaP19pY1FI

BisonFan02, could you learn to love me?

[BisonFan02]

BisonFan02, could you learn to love me?

no

[Old Gregg]

no

Did you not see how I dealt with Curly Jefferson? Let's all love all things good about FCS football and move along, BisonFan02.

[NDSUSR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3x6l5dZp8

[melloware13]

Speaking of nicknames.....

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?154671-2014-2015-Avatar-wager-UND-Nickname

I'll be taking suggestions the entire month of July. :D

Are you using 12:00 AM EDT, CDT, MDT, or PDT to classify the cutoff. Approaching final hour(s)

[BisonFan02]

Are you using 12:00 AM EDT, CDT, MDT, or PDT to classify the cutoff. Approaching final hour(s)

Pick anyone you want...I'm still going to win! xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Pick anyone you want...I'm still going to win! xlolx

I just noticed you asked for a sticky...did I ever do that? xlolx

I don't even remember reading that part but may have just forgot about it immediately as I have been known to do.

[BisonFan02]

I just noticed you asked for a sticky...did I ever do that? xlolx

I don't even remember reading that part but may have just forgot about it immediately as I have been known to do.

No biggie....I made sure to keep it current xlolx I don't think Darell is going to be around to take his punishment, but I could use your help to update his profile for me! :)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

No biggie....I made sure to keep it current xlolx I don't think Darell is going to be around to take his punishment, but I could use your help to update his profile for me! :)

Fair is fair and I will honor the bet on his behalf for you.

[dbackjon]

Has this been resolved yet?

[BisonFan02]

Has this been resolved yet?

Nope...they can't rush things you know.

[BisonTru]

Has this been resolved yet?

Nope. They are working to assemble a committee that could possibly build a committee that may or may not be able to appoint a committee that could possibly cut the list from 7 names to 6.

[UNDColorado]

Nope. They are working to assemble a committee that could possibly build a committee that may or may not be able to appoint a committee that could possibly cut the list from 7 names to 6.

Haha this is about right. Personally not happy with how this entire process has played out.

[BisonFan02]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?154671-2014-2015-Avatar-wager-UND-Nickname/page9

I win.... xthumbsupx :D xrulesxxbeerchugx

[Hammersmith]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?154671-2014-2015-Avatar-wager-UND-Nickname/page9

I win.... xthumbsupx :D xrulesxxbeerchugx

I'm surprised how close it was. One or two months off. I figured we'd still be about a year or two away from a nickname at this point.

[BisonFan02]

I'm surprised how close it was. One or two months off. I figured we'd still be about a year or two away from a nickname at this point.

Wasn't it 1-2 months away...6 years ago? :D

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Just using North Dakota as a name won't happen.

http://www.inforum.com/news/3801862-north-dakota-nickname-eliminated-und-committee

[Laker]

Just using North Dakota as a name won't happen.

http://www.inforum.com/news/3801862-north-dakota-nickname-eliminated-und-committee

" Fighting Hawks was the most favored name, receiving 33 points, Nodaks came in second with 34 points and Sundogs was third with 40 points."

I don't like any of those. Too many schools have Hawks already.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Here is the final 5 choices.

http://www.kfyrtv.com/home/headlines/New-UND-Nickname-List-Narrowed-Down-to-Five-318066301.html

[Nodak78]

I have been a Fighting Sioux fan since the days of Dave Osborn. Always will be in my heart but the name does not mean much to me.

[Bisonator]

Here is the final 5 choices.

http://www.kfyrtv.com/home/headlines/New-UND-Nickname-List-Narrowed-Down-to-Five-318066301.html

xlolxxlmaox

[BisonFan02]

UND president Robert Kelley can still cut or add names to that list before a public vote is taken.

Get your pitchforks out! xlolx It's all Kelley's fault!?!?!?!?! Fire Kelley, Save Mascot!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think it's a brilliant move. Four of those names are so f'n stupid it makes the correct choice easy.

[BisonFan02]

I think it's a brilliant move. Four of those names are so f'n stupid it makes the correct choice easy.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/56/Minnesota_North_Stars_Logo_2.svg/200px-Minnesota_North_Stars_Logo_2.svg.png

[ursus arctos horribilis]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/56/Minnesota_North_Stars_Logo_2.svg/200px-Minnesota_North_Stars_Logo_2.svg.png

Nopestar buddy.

[BisonFan02]

Nopestar buddy.

Yeah.....butthockey!

[Milkman]

But that Northstar logo has such a wonderful color scheme :D

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[frozennorth]

Roughriders it is

[bisoninloveland]

if its Roughriders are they going to put a hockey guy on a horse, so they dont infringe on Wyoming's logo

[clenz]

Already done....mostly

Same colors even

USHL Cedar Rapids Rough Riders
http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/view/316350132012/Cedar_Rapids_RoughRiders/2012/Alternate_Logo

http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/103/3163/full/3515_cedar_rapids__roughriders-alternate-2013.png

http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/103/3163/full/1548_cedar_rapids__roughriders-alternate-2010.png


http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/103/3163/full/5013_cedar_rapids__roughriders-alternate-2012.png










AND



Pink to please NDSU



http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/103/3163/full/6068_cedar_rapids__roughriders-event-2013.png

[BisonBacker]

It's funny this is the only way they are in the news. **** gets old.

[DFW HOYA]

Here is the final 5 choices.

http://www.kfyrtv.com/home/headlines/New-UND-Nickname-List-Narrowed-Down-to-Five-318066301.html

I think Gold is still available over at Marquette.

[NDSUSR]

And after the name committee is done, the logo committee takes another 2 years.

[BluBengal07]

And after the name committee is done, the logo committee takes another 2 years.


http://www.thewomeniread.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/gatsby-bubbly-toast.gif

[Bisonator]

Please let it be Nodaks or Sundogs! :D

[clenz]

Please let it be Nodaks or Sundogs! :D
Nodaks would be funny because of NoDak.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Nodaks would be funny because of NoDak.

I would still be a NoDak and you would still be an Iowegian.

[1984]

I figured this would happen. UND has no pride in being North Dakota. They are ashamed to be associated with the state name.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I figured this would happen. UND has no pride in being North Dakota. They are ashamed to be associated with the state name.

actually keeping just North Dakota would be a disaster. You would have no brand identity and the Sioux supporters would just keep using Sioux as the unofficial mascot.

I don't think it has anything to do with state pride.

[clenz]

I would still be a NoDak and you would still be an Iowegian.
People keep saying that word...but it's not real

[1984]

actually keeping just North Dakota would be a disaster. You would have no brand identity and the Sioux supporters would just keep using Sioux as the unofficial mascot.

I don't think it has anything to do with state pride.

The People who support the "Fighting Sioux" name will continue no matter what is chosen. It is about state pride, the Presidents agenda, who has chosen to leave because he knows how unpopular his pushing is.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I figured this would happen. UND has no pride in being North Dakota. They are ashamed to be associated with the state name.
Doesn't really make a log of sense there 84.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

http://www.kfyrtv.com/home/headlines/Results-of-New-UND-Nickname-Survey-to-be-Released-Today-321767642.html?utm_source=facebook_KFYR-TV

[Fordhamanhattan]

How bout the North Dakota Politically Correctors?

[RootinFerDukes]

It's all about $$$ unfortunately. If they had the millions to pay the Sioux each year like Florida state and other bcs schools do, they'd still be called the fighting Sioux.

[dakotadan]

Our prez announced this summer that he is retiring in Jan. It can't come soon enough. He is a horrible "leader" and has royally screwed this whole process.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Our prez announced this summer that he is retiring in Jan. It can't come soon enough. He is a horrible "leader" and has royally screwed this whole process.

Nope, that guy left in 2008

[BisonFan02]

Nope, that guy left in 2008

This......

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Results.............

http://www.inforum.com/news/3817244-und-students-want-north-dakota-nickname-option-survey-results-show

[RootinFerDukes]

Why can't they just call that what it is, no nickname. Unless of course they mean the North Dakota North Dakotas.
IMO, Nodak sounds like the best of those options.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Results.............

http://www.inforum.com/news/3817244-und-students-want-north-dakota-nickname-option-survey-results-show

Well of course they do. They'll throw it back in and pick Roughriders anyway.

[BisonFan02]

Why can't they just call that what it is, no nickname. Unless of course they mean the North Dakota North Dakotas.
IMO, Nodak sounds like the best of those options.

No Nickname = Default Fighting Sioux.....and that is the only reason for the no nickname option. Look....I personally don't think they should have to change anything, but it is what it is...

[superman7515]

Well of course they do. They'll throw it back in and pick Roughriders anyway.

If they pick Nodak's, will you change your name on here? Haha

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

UND is going to get itself in more trouble, if they don't stop the Sioux stuff.

http://www.inforum.com/news/3818740-sioux-chants-could-mean-consequences-und

[The Yo Show]

What if they became the buffalo?

[clenz]

UND is going to get itself in more trouble, if they don't stop the Sioux stuff.

http://www.inforum.com/news/3818740-sioux-chants-could-mean-consequences-und
Other schools might complain?

****, I can feel 20k complaints out of Fargo alone within the first week of the first chance to complain.

How is that any different than if they change the name to Rough Riders and the fans still do it?

How the **** does what the fans do have any bearing on the fact UND dropped their name, went the required years without one, and then came up with another one?

Why the flying **** should UND be penalized for dip **** fans using their voices (not artificial noise makers) to do something like that?

[RootinFerDukes]

UND is going to get itself in more trouble, if they don't stop the Sioux stuff.

http://www.inforum.com/news/3818740-sioux-chants-could-mean-consequences-und

This story continues to get stupider with each passing day. They can control what fans choose to chant? It's not like scoreboards and cheer leaders are chanting it.
A fan could chant "BS" after a ref makes an awful call... And a school could complain. Would that see NCAA sanctions?
This is borderline bullying at this point.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Other schools might complain?

****, I can feel 20k complaints out of Fargo alone within the first week of the first chance to complain.

How is that any different than if they change the name to Rough Riders and the fans still do it?

How the **** does what the fans do have any bearing on the fact UND dropped their name, went the required years without one, and then came up with another one?

Why the flying **** should UND be penalized for dip **** fans using their voices (not artificial noise makers) to do something like that?

This is going be more of a problem for UN_ for hockey. Some, if not all, Big 10 teams have been complaining for years about the use of the Sioux nickname. Some of the Big 10 teams have said they will not play UN_ if they keep using it.

[clenz]

This is going be more of a problem for UN_ for hockey. Some, if not all, Big 10 teams have been complaining for years about the use of the Sioux nickname. Some of the Big 10 teams have said they will not play UN_ if they keep using it.
If UND took the steps to get a new name and the institution and programs aren't encouraging the use if the name there should be zero NCAA involvement and zero complaints

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[WTFCollegefootballfan]

If UND took the steps to get a new name and the institution and programs aren't encouraging the use if the name there should be zero NCAA involvement and zero complaints

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Just going with North Dakota( no nickname ) is keeping the Fighting Sioux nickname for there fans and other teams fans. They will continue to wear Sioux attire and chant Sioux chants. The NCAA is warning UN_ don't go with the no nickname. UN_ needs to pick a new nickname and get this over with. They have wasted so much state money on this already. Time to move on. It does suck for UN_ fans, but in this politically correct world, it time to move on. UN_ hasn't really been taking the correct steps to move on. They have been stalling and playing games, trying to make it look like they are doing something, hoping they never have to change the nickname.

[clenz]

Just going with North Dakota( no nickname ) is keeping the Fighting Sioux nickname for there fans and other teams fans. They will continue to wear Sioux attire and chant Sioux chants. The NCAA is warning UN_ don't go with the no nickname. UN_ needs to pick a new nickname and get this over with. They have wasted so much state money on this already. Time to move on. It does suck for UN_ fans, but in this politically right world, it time to move on.
The NCAA told them they can go no nickname

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[WTFCollegefootballfan]

The NCAA told them they can go no nickname

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I would guess someone from the Big 10 called the NCAA and complained about UN_ going with no nickname.

[clenz]

I would guess someone from the Big 10 called the NCAA and complained about UN_ going with no nickname.
From the article you just posted

With a public vote on the horizon this fall, Johnson said Kelley had reached out to the NCAA and was told "not selecting a nickname would not be a violation of the settlement agreement."


So, he was apparently told within the last week or month it's okay...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

From the article you just posted

With a public vote on the horizon this fall, Johnson said Kelley had reached out to the NCAA and was told "not selecting a nickname would not be a violation of the settlement agreement."

Again, someone from the Big 10 probably contacted the NCAA and complained about the no nickname.
So, he was apparently told within the last week or month it's okay...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Again, someone from the Big 10 probably contacted the NCAA and complained about the no nickname.

[clenz]

Again, someone from the Big 10 probably contacted the NCAA and complained about the no nickname.
Then why did the ncaa jus tell them they could

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[No_Skill]

From the article you just posted

With a public vote on the horizon this fall, Johnson said Kelley had reached out to the NCAA and was told "not selecting a nickname would not be a violation of the settlement agreement."


So, he was apparently told within the last week or month it's okay...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

It's just like when my son asks if he can build a fort in the living room.

I tell him, sure but you're going to clean up the mess when you are done and if you cry and whine when it's time to clean up, you'll get a time-out. I don't want to tell him he can't build his fort, but I sure as hell don't want to clean up his mess. I would rather he just go play in his room and not build the damn fort in the living room while I'm trying to watch my damn Antiques Roadshow.

Same situation. You make the choices and you live with the consequences.

[clenz]

It's just like when my son asks if he can build a fort in the living room.

I tell him, sure but you're going to clean up the mess when you are done and if you cry and whine when it's time to clean up, you'll get a time-out. I don't want to tell him he can't build his fort, but I sure as hell don't want to clean up his mess. I would rather he just go play in his room and not build the damn fort in the living room while I'm trying to watch my damn Antiques Roadshow.

Same situation. You make the choices and you live with the consequences.
Not at all like that.

The NCAA mandated the drop the Sioux name....so they did
The NCAA mandated a couple years before a new one...they did
The NCAA gave them permission to continue without one if they want...they might.


UND no longer sells Sioux items, announces to crowds to no longer wear Sioux items oe use Sioux chants...they can't control dip **** fans.

Teams complain about NCAA allowed name and NCAA then punishes them because fans said the word Sioux?

Maybe the NCAA, and other schools should worry about the thousands of fans yelling profane, racist, and threats at every event across the nation first...



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[No_Skill]

Not at all like that.

The NCAA mandated the drop the Sioux name....so they did
The NCAA mandated a couple years before a new one...they did
The NCAA gave them permission to continue without one if they want...they might.


UND no longer sells Sioux items, announces to crowds to no longer wear Sioux items oe use Sioux chants...they can't control dip **** fans.

Teams complain about NCAA allowed name and NCAA then punishes them because fans said the word Sioux?

Maybe the NCAA, and other schools should worry about the thousands of fans yelling profane, racist, and threats at every event across the nation first...



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Guess what. Daddy makes the rules.

[clenz]

Guess what. Daddy makes the rules.
To make your situation accurate. .


You gave your son the ultimatum.
He followed the rules

BUT

A sibling decides that even though your son followed the rules they are going to make a mess

Then you as a dad punish your son for your other child's actions.

That's what this would be like

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[The Yo Show]

Not at all like that.

The NCAA mandated the drop the Sioux name....so they did
The NCAA mandated a couple years before a new one...they did
The NCAA gave them permission to continue without one if they want...they might.


UND no longer sells Sioux items, announces to crowds to no longer wear Sioux items oe use Sioux chants...they can't control dip **** fans.

Teams complain about NCAA allowed name and NCAA then punishes them because fans said the word Sioux?

Maybe the NCAA, and other schools should worry about the thousands of fans yelling profane, racist, and threats at every event across the nation first...



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

This.... xthumbsupx

[No_Skill]

To make your situation accurate. .


You gave your son the ultimatum.
He followed the rules

BUT

A sibling decides that even though your son followed the rules they are going to make a mess

Then you as a dad punish your son for your other child's actions.

That's what this would be like

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Ahhh! See I knew that his two year old sister might want to come play and had the potential to destroy the fort and ruin his day. In fact, I'm betting on it. But he still wanted to make his fort and take that risk, which is fine by me, but when it's time to clean up...it's his responsibility. Which circles around to the beginning because after the fort gets wrecked neither of them will want to clean up the mess. It will be left to me, which I saw coming a mile away and you know what happens next? I have to clean up the mess, which pisses me off since I have better things to do (Antiques Roadshow) and the boy gets a time-out.

Edit: Much of this is just me having fun, but the similarities to dealing with children is striking, no?

[clenz]

Ahhh! See I knew that his two year old sister might want to come play and had the potential to destroy the fort and ruin his day. In fact, I'm betting on it. But he still wanted to make his fort and take that risk, which is fine by me, but when it's time to clean up...it's his responsibility. Which circles around to the beginning because after the fort gets wrecked neither of them will want to clean up the mess. It will be left to me, which I saw coming a mile away and you know what happens next? I have to clean up the mess, which pisses me off since I have better things to do (Antiques Roadshow) and the boy gets a time-out.
But he did clean up.

He met every single stipulation you put in front to him.

Everything was done and cleaned up, according to agreed upon criteria between you and him.

Just because some people in your house can't follow rules and can't have nice things doesn't give you a reason to punish your son for following the rules.

Eventually he'll learn he'll be punished if he follows the rules or not, so he may as well do things to deserve the punishment.


Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy of bad behavior your setting your son up for.

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[WTFCollegefootballfan]

I here St. Cloud State really has issues with the nickname. Maybe they are raising the issue. (Hockey thing again)

[clenz]

There are a ton of Marquette fans that still wear Warriors gear and stuff like that. There's still extreme tension over that decision

Marquette has been the Golden Eagles for over two decades now

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Stores still sell Sioux attire. You see new Sioux window stickers all over. There are a lot Sioux forever stickers and shirts being sold.

This site has 2015 hockey jersey's.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-University-North-Dakota-Fighting-Sioux-Hockey-Jersey-K1-9-Jonathan-Toews-11-Zach-Parise-7/32331223065.html

This is what is driving some of the issues.

[clenz]

Stores still sell Sioux attire. You see new Sioux window stickers all over. There are a lot Sioux forever stickers and shirts being sold.

This site has 2015 hockey jersey's.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-University-North-Dakota-Fighting-Sioux-Hockey-Jersey-K1-9-Jonathan-Toews-11-Zach-Parise-7/32331223065.html

This is what is driving some of the issues.
So the NCAA needs to punish UND for Scheels selling UND clothes and some fan making bumper sticker?

Is UND selling them?
Is UND licensing them?

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[No_Skill]

So the NCAA needs to punish UND for Scheels selling UND clothes and some fan making bumper sticker?

Is UND selling them?
Is UND licensing them?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

That depends on who owns the licensing rights.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

So the NCAA needs to punish UND for Scheels selling UND clothes and some fan making bumper sticker?

Is UND selling them?
Is UND licensing them?

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Other teams are offended by this. That is what the NCAA is saying.

[clenz]

Other teams are offended by this. That is what the NCAA is saying.
This has never been about other teams feelings, though. It was about Native American feelings.

That's a moving target that's impossible to hit no matter what UND does. Fans, I'm assuming you're likely I this group, of opponents will go out of their way to file complaints against UND, even if unwarranted, just to try to get the school punished. I can already see the 5 or 10 thousand emails coming from Fargo weekly about how offended they are.

This is a ridiculous proposition UND is backed into. All because tribal leaders in South Dakota said get rid if it, even though 66% of the tribe that voted on it said allow it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[clenz]

But part of the NCAA’s deal with UND on the nickname states that UND most hold onto the trademark, lest some enterprising entrepreneur start making unofficial Fighting Sioux merchandise. That’s already problematic, because under US law in order to maintain a trademark you have to actually use the trademark. Which means that in order for UND to comply with the NCAA’s mandate that they maintain the rights to the Fighting Sioux logo and nickname they’re going to have to use it once in a while.

https://sayanythingblog.com/entry/federal-court-ruling-disparaging-trademarks-interesting-fighting-sioux-logonickname/



Pretty screwed up, isn't it?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Hammerhead]

If the Redskins trademark can be revoked, why not Fighting Sioux?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2015/07/08/washington-redskins-trademark-cancelled/29857765/

[Laker]

I here St. Cloud State really has issues with the nickname. Maybe they are raising the issue. (Hockey thing again)

There were demonstrations at SCSU when UND played there in the past. They had a president (I think he is long gone) who spoke against it. The Gophers said that they wouldn't play any team with an "abusive" nickname that was outside of the conference. Heck, I even saw a tiny demonstration years ago outside the Taylor Center when Mankato hosted UND in basketball.

This whole issue is full of inconsistencies. Some schools were forced to change. Yet others got the blessings of the tribes. Others paid a lot of money. We went through this whole thing in Minnesota- some schools still call themselves the Indians. Red Lake HS in on a reservation- they said that they would keep the Warriors name. Sleepy Eye HS is still the Indians- the town was named after a chief. Some people wanted the Pipestone Arrows to change but thankfully that didn't happen.

[clenz]

If the Redskins trademark can be revoked, why not Fighting Sioux?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2015/07/08/washington-redskins-trademark-cancelled/29857765/
NCAA mandate of them retaining the trademar

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[ursus arctos horribilis]

clenzy just flat out out logicing everything in the past couple pages.

The idea of some other teams fans whining about something the other teams fans wore or chanted is some real pussy BS.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

There were demonstrations at SCSU when UND played there in the past. They had a president (I think he is long gone) who spoke against it. The Gophers said that they wouldn't play any team with an "abusive" nickname that was outside of the conference. Heck, I even saw a tiny demonstration years ago outside the Taylor Center when Mankato hosted UND in basketball.

This whole issue is full of inconsistencies. Some schools were forced to change. Yet others got the blessings of the tribes. Others paid a lot of money. We went through this whole thing in Minnesota- some schools still call themselves the Indians. Red Lake HS in on a reservation- they said that they would keep the Warriors name. Sleepy Eye HS is still the Indians- the town was named after a chief. Some people wanted the Pipestone Arrows to change but thankfully that didn't happen.



The sad part of this UND nickname debate is that they had the full blessing of the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe to use the name. The Standing Rock Tribe was all for it also but their tribal chairman would never let a vote happen. I wonder if he got paid off by some PC entity....we'll probably never know. SR would have voted for the use of the nickname but they never got a chance to vote for it.

[clenz]

The sad part of this UND nickname debate is that they had the full blessing of the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe to use the name. The Standing Rock Tribe was all for it also but their tribal chairman would never let a vote happen. I wonder if he got paid off by some PC entity....we'll probably never know. SR would have voted for the use of the nickname but they never got a chance to vote for it.
I think UND has f-ed this entire process up as most, but the reality is they are being made an extreme example of because they don't have the name backing them up like Illinois or Florida State. The SR tribe did vote on it, and voted by a 2-1 margin to allow it, but the tribal council members didn't "honor" that vote and said to not allow it.

The NCAA potentially dropping a hammer after everything is done because some NDSU or Minnesota fans are ****ing ****s about it and wnat to complain is complete horse crap in every single imaginable way.

We are all outsiders on this as well. We can all say "If my schools name was forced to change I would be cool with it and blah blah blah". The reality is, though, we aren't being bent over by the NCAA. We aren't being made to follow very strict guidelines that appear to be moving the entire time. We don't have 70 years (3 generations) of history tied to the name. We haven't spent 3 generations having our university put our name and logo on everything all to have the NCAA come in and tell us we are racist assholes and have to change it or get a version of the death penalty. I can promise you if UNI were forced to get rid of the Panther nickname, for any reason, almost all living UNI fans would refuse to support whatever new name was chosen. I will always, and would always be, a Panther and I wouldn't ever think about being anything other than a Panther. If the name was changed to *INSERT WHATEVERNAME YOU WANT* I probably would never buy an article of clothing with that name and logo on it. Once a Panther always a Panther.

Every fan over the age of about 10 right now has been a "Fighting Sioux" their entire life and is reacting very similar to what I would. Even if everything went "perfectly" it's going to take probably 30 years, minimum, for the "Sioux heads" to work into the minority/out of the fan base. Hell, even at that my generation of UND fans are only going to be in their 40s, 50, or very early 60s. The hostility over how this happened is completely understandable - especially as the bar keeps changing over time.

I know NDSU fans keep poking the fire because they have nothing better to do with their time, apparently, but for anyone to say UND would deserve more punishment because someone else did something stupid is just dumb

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I think UND has f-ed this entire process up as most, but the reality is they are being made an extreme example of because they don't have the name backing them up like Illinois or Florida State. The SR tribe did vote on it, and voted by a 2-1 margin to allow it, but the tribal council members didn't "honor" that vote and said to not allow it.

The NCAA potentially dropping a hammer after everything is done because some NDSU or Minnesota fans are ****ing ****s about it and wnat to complain is complete horse crap in every single imaginable way.

We are all outsiders on this as well. We can all say "If my schools name was forced to change I would be cool with it and blah blah blah". The reality is, though, we aren't being bent over by the NCAA. We aren't being made to follow very strict guidelines that appear to be moving the entire time. We don't have 70 years (3 generations) of history tied to the name. We haven't spent 3 generations having our university put our name and logo on everything all to have the NCAA come in and tell us we are racist assholes and have to change it or get a version of the death penalty. I can promise you if UNI were forced to get rid of the Panther nickname, for any reason, almost all living UNI fans would refuse to support whatever new name was chosen. I will always, and would always be, a Panther and I wouldn't ever think about being anything other than a Panther. If the name was changed to *INSERT WHATEVERNAME YOU WANT* I probably would never buy an article of clothing with that name and logo on it. Once a Panther always a Panther.

Every fan over the age of about 10 right now has been a "Fighting Sioux" their entire life and is reacting very similar to what I would. Even if everything went "perfectly" it's going to take probably 30 years, minimum, for the "Sioux heads" to work into the minority/out of the fan base. Hell, even at that my generation of UND fans are only going to be in their 40s, 50, or very early 60s. The hostility over how this happened is completely understandable - especially as the bar keeps changing over time.

I know NDSU fans keep poking the fire because they have nothing better to do with their time, apparently, but for anyone to say UND would deserve more punishment because someone else did something stupid is just dumb



I'm not "poking the fire" with my last comment and who said UND deserves more punishment or whatever you implied?

UND is getting fu**ed by the NCAA and the SR tribe. They probably could have gotten the approval of the SR tribe but they screwed it up.

[clenz]

Stores still sell Sioux attire. You see new Sioux window stickers all over. There are a lot Sioux forever stickers and shirts being sold.

This site has 2015 hockey jersey's.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-University-North-Dakota-Fighting-Sioux-Hockey-Jersey-K1-9-Jonathan-Toews-11-Zach-Parise-7/32331223065.html

This is what is driving some of the issues.
This post might get long in reply to this...but...

1. As I already pointed out, UND is being forced to maintain the trademark the NCAA - I can't find anything to point that the stipulation has been dropped. To maintain a trademark the item that is trademark must still be used, at least occasionally. The NCAA really bent UND over on that one didn't they? We don't want fans recreating your apparel, so you have to hold the trademark. To do that you still have to "use it" some times. BUT if you use it we'll hit you with punishments. That's pretty much the definition of ****ed up

2. I went through every single item offered on Sioux Shop...yep, I have that little of a life apparently. The only items I found with "Sioux" or the vintage logo are:

Mens:
Bifold wallet - logo
Check book - logo
Dog tag necklace - logo
Digit watch - logo (the logo is so small is extremely hard to see)
A Sioux Shop shirt - doesn't actually day Noth Dakota on it..just Sioux Shop

So in the mens section there are 5 items, that can all be purchased for well under 100. There are 11 pages of items with 18 items per page. So there are 198 items and 5 have "prohibited" items on it. I would assume that those items were chosen because they are small and inconspicuous/unseen 99% of the time and still needed to actually maintain the trademark.

Let's look at the womens
Watch with small logo

That's it. Out of 120 womens items there is 1 item.

Kids?
5 toddler shirts out of roughly 100 itmes


Hats
0 items with 65ish available

Accessories
Get Well card
Napkin
Key chain

That's it out of about 270 items

The legends section (all of the NHL players whove gone to UND)
There's only like 4 or 5 bobble heads that have the logo on it out of about 60 items on the shop. All of the players played with the logo on their uniforms so it makes sense it's on the bobble head.

The "More" section
0 itms out of about 30


Let's do some quick math on that's something like 15 items, with the largest of which a bobble head for home use and the most visible a watch with a logo smaller than a dime on it. That's out of about 750-800 items. Again, because of trademark rules they are still required to make that logo available. I would call 1% of their available merchandise still using it but meeting NCAA rules at the same time.


3. Now to address that website you linked...

Sold By
moran force's store (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/924076)
China (Mainland)Registrant Name: Timothy Alexander Steinert
Registrant Organization: Hangzhou Alibaba Advertising Co., Ltd.(æ�*州阿里å·?å·?广告有é™�å…¬å�?)
Registrant Street: No. 699 Wangshang Road , Binjiang District
Registrant City: Hangzhou
Registrant State/Province: Zhejiang
Registrant Postal Code: 310052
Registrant Country: CN
Registrant Phone: +852.22155100
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +852.22155200
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: [email protected]
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: Timothy Alexander Steinert
Admin Organization: Hangzhou Alibaba Advertising Co., Ltd.(æ�*州阿里å·?å·?广告有é™�å…¬å�?)
Admin Street: No. 699 Wangshang Road , Binjiang District
Admin City: Hangzhou
Admin State/Province: Zhejiang
Admin Postal Code: 310052
Admin Country: CN
Admin Phone: +852.22155100
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax: +852.22155200
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: [email protected]


Yup...They are out of China. I knew the layout of that sited look familiar when I was on my phone. These are not UND licenced but they are damn near impossible for UND to do anything about. They are complete counterfeit uniforms. The soccer leagues in Europe fight with these kinds of sites non-stop and never win. If the largest sports clubs in the world (Man United, Man City, Chealsea, Totteham, Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayern Munic, Barca, Juventus, Althletico Madrid, etc...) can't do anything about them there is zero chance UND is able to either. Notice how there is no Nike, Reebok, whomever logo on it. It's all knock off. It's all a giant "scam". None of this is UND sponsored. None of this is by UND fans who can't let things go. None of this is to get back at the NCAA. This is an American businessman who knows how to make a **** ton of money in China in the sports market. Look how many other sites the alibaba group owns.

Here's some info o Mr. Steinert
http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=5380495&ticker=BABA&previousCapId=265009807&previousTitle=Ali%2520YK%2520Investment%2520Holdin g%2520Limited
https://hk.linkedin.com/in/timsteinert

Turns out, he didn't go to UND and isn't associated with UND beyond taking peoples money. He went to Yale and then Columbia Law - where he focused on Chinese Law....yeah... Look at his linkedin history. He's been in China working in understanding Chinese and international law since 1994. He knows what the **** he's doing. These are the types of guys that run sites like this. Hell, Google "knock off soccer jerseys"...seriously...do it...look what the first site listed is... http://www.aliexpress.com/cheap/cheap-replica-soccer-jerseys.html

Does that URL look familiar?




I really could keep going here, but I'm going to stop for now...unless you want me to come back to it

[clenz]

I'm not "poking the fire" with my last comment and who said UND deserves more punishment or whatever you implied?

UND is getting fu**ed by the NCAA and the SR tribe. They probably could have gotten the approval of the SR tribe but they screwed it up.That last part wasn't directed at you specifically. More people like WTFCollegefootballfan who are still blaming UND and saying the deserve people complaining and the punishment they get from the NCAA and pointing out knock off jersey sites from China as proof UND deserves more punishment and is driving the bus on making this hard. No_Skill said the exact same thing - did you see the posts about him being okay with punishing his son even though he followed all of the rules that were set all because his daughter did something bad?

I've been in Fargo 3 times since that ruling. I've drank with NDSU fans. I've been having conversation with them about the Vikings that quickly turned into "Yeah, well...**** UND. The NCAA should ban them from everything" type conversations.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

That last part wasn't directed at you specifically. More people like WTFCollegefootballfan who are still blaming UND and saying the deserve people complaining and the punishment they get from the NCAA and pointing out knock off jersey sites from China as proof UND deserves more punishment and is driving the bus on making this hard. No_Skill said the exact same thing - did you see the posts about him being okay with punishing his son even though he followed all of the rules that were set all because his daughter did something bad?

I've been in Fargo 3 times since that ruling. I've drank with NDSU fans. I've been having conversation with them about the Vikings that quickly turned into "Yeah, well...**** UND. The NCAA should ban them from everything" type conversations.


I never said UN_ deserved anything. I'm just tired of what it is doing to the state of North Dakota. U of Minnesota and others are the ones complaining to the NCAA. I was actually pissed when the NCAA first announced the forced name change. I supported UN_. I thought it was BS. But after years of stupid fighting a fight they are not going to win, it time to end this. Passing a bill by the state legislature to mandate the name stays, just to piss off the NCAA even more. UN_ keeps doing things to piss off the NCAA. It is their own fault not NDSU fans fault.

[BisonFan02]

I'm really.....REALLY....****ing tired of this subject...No side can possibly win and there are WAY too many differing entities that will never be happy....

To try and save some time in this (yeah...TL;DR version...but I really don't want to spend a lot of time on it)

The NCAA doesn't care if UND goes the "no nickname" route....
Prez Kelley also knows, that allowing the "no nickname" route keeps UND open to punishment by the NCAA when the fanbase inevitably reverts to the Sioux moniker...
THIS is one of the reasons Prez Kelley removed the "no nickname" option....fanbase still partially reverts to Sioux moniker regardless, but the university can then throw their hands up and claim innocence....
The "no nickname" lobbying fans were all former "**** them, keep the Fighting Sioux" lobbying fans...and the "no nickname" option is a very poorly veiled attempt at keeping status quo....

This whole PC war is complete garbage and any Bison fan that says they would react more maturely is completely full of themselves....it is 100% schadenfreude for many of them.

Another prediction....when this game is played on a more visible scale (already occurred in the men's bball games), the inevitable "Sioux Suck ****" chants will happen from a section of the students (and probably a bunch of drunk rubes as well)....it will be a gong show and distract from the actual game...and will be the primary thing discussed after the game in the local media...and that is pretty ****ing sad.

[Bisonator]

UND is 100% to blame for this entire fiasco. They had 50 ****ing years to get the approval of the tribes by any means necessary but chose not to. Their leaderships arrogance over the whole issue has been the sole reason they are in the situation. Just like a few other things UND ****ed up.

This nickname thing isn't some recent controversy. There were people calling for change back in the 70s. A lot of it was directly related to UND fans doing racist ****. There is no need for fans of other schools to complain their own fans do plenty of stupid **** to merit the consequences.

[Hammersmith]

Clenz, you're getting way too worked up about the trademark issue. A section of the 2007(ish) settlement deals with that. It says that UND has to maintain the trademarks, and allows them to use the images for limited "legacy" products. They did the first run a couple years back. It's really no big deal.

You also said the NCAA forced UND to wait a few years before adopting a new nickname. The NCAA had nothing to do with that. The "cooling off period" was forced on everyone by our cluster-fk of a legislature. Specifically a guy I believe was trying to use the nickname fiasco to launch a US House bid. I was oh so happy when the whole thing blew up in his face.



I think the NCAA is letting UND know that they can't use the "no nickname" option as a way to skirt the settlement by keeping Fighting Sioux the official unofficial nickname. If they go no nickname, then UND has to fully commit to it. They have to do everything in their power to stamp out Fighting Sioux. A simple example: the cheerleaders and PA announcers have to be set up to drown out any Sioux chants as soon as they start.*

If UND chooses a new nickname and puts forth an honest effort towards getting it adopted, I think the NCAA will give them a little latitude. They won't get that if they go no nickname.

An analogy: A kid shows up at (K12) school wearing an offensive t-shirt. The principal says the shirt has to go. The kid says he's got a shirt in his locker that he can put on over the top of the offensive shirt. The principal says okay, and let's him walk to his locker while still wearing the shirt. The principal later sees the kid with an open mesh shirt over the top of the original shirt, and you can clearly see the undershirt. Do you think the principal is going to let it go? Doubt it. While the kid technically complied by putting on a shirt over the top(officially dropping Fighting Sioux and choosing no nickname), the student knowingly chose a shirt that allowed him to continue to display the original(everyone still uses Fighting Sioux).






*NDSU did something like this several years back. We have two primary chants. The most common historically was 'Here We Go Bison'. Rough guess, it was used 85% of the time. It's your standard Here We Go chant. "Here we go Bison, here we go <clap><clap>" Well, we all put "Sioux Suck" in for the <clap><clap>. Nobody says (drunken) college students are creative.

The other chant has always been "Let's Go Bison <clap><clap><clapclapclap>" Historically, I figure that was used the other 15% of the time.

But after NDSU moved up to DI and UND chose not to follow or schedule us(as well as the tackiness of the whole Sioux Suck thing), the usage of the chants flipped almost overnight. By the second Minnesota game in 2007, Bison fans were self-policing themselves. I heard multiple stories of "Here we go Bison" getting drowned out immediately by other Bison fans starting "Let's go Bison".

The cheerleaders also have instructions to do the same. If you listen very closely to the College GameDay broadcasts, you can hear it two or three times during the show. Some (drunken) idiot starts "Here we go", and the cheerleaders immediately start "Let's go". That's the sort of thing UND would need to do for all Sioux chants and songs.

The only time in recent memory that things went bad was after maybe the second national championship. The team flew home and was met by a minor pep rally outside the Fargodome. Our gov was there and he's an NDSU alumnus, though I don't think he's ever been really involved as a fan. He wanted to start and lead a chant(he's a politician after all), so he used the one he knew: "Here we go". Pavlov would have been proud. Thousands of repetitions caused most in the crowd to automatically add "Sioux Suck" to the end, and NDSU got bad press out of the deal. I wasn't there, but I can imagine the grimaces on the faces of all the NDSU brass present as soon as the gov started that chant. It would have been like watching the proverbial slow-motion train wreck.

[taper]

Clenz, you are basing a lot of your argument on the assumption the tribes want to keep the name but were ignored. This is not true.

First off, you've repeatedly claimed that the Standing Rock tribe voted 2-1 to keep the name but the council ignored it. This has not happened, you need to provide a source if you want to keep saying that. I think you're confusing it with the Spirit Lake tribe vote. They did vote 2-1 to keep it, but with 11% turnout only 7% of the tribe voted yes. Hardly overwhelming support. Meets the terms of the NCAA settlement though.

Standing Rock has been officially opposed the Fighting Sioux name since at least 1992 when they issued a council resolution on it. In 2010 they voted 10-4 not to consider changing that position. At that meeting a citizen petition with 1010 signatures was presented to affirm the 1992 opposition. Another petition of 1004 was presented to put it to a tribal vote. At best 50/50, can't even say all the vote supporters were nickname supporters.
http://www.inforum.com/content/standing-rock-council-votes-end-discussion-und-fighting-sioux-nickname


About a month after the Spirit Lake vote Standing Rock had a tribal council election. Archie Fool Bear has been a vocal supporter of the nickname and ran on a platform of holding a vote. He came in 9th of 12 candidates for 6 positions. Many took this as a sign the tribe as a whole is done with it.
http://bismarcktribune.com/news/local/standing-rock-election-results-official/article_7b3b4f90-f064-11e0-bdc4-001cc4c03286.html

A statewide vote in 2012 was 2-1 AGAINST keeping the nickname.
http://ballotpedia.org/North_Dakota_University_%22Fighting_Sioux%22_Refer endum,_Measure_4_%28June_2012%29

In that vote, Sioux County voted 54-46 against the nickname. This county contains the ND portion of the Standing Rock reservation and was again viewed as the tribe's unofficial vote. And again, very low turnout, only 8% of the county.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/14/fighting-sioux-name-contr_n_1596154.html

The other major reservations in ND are the Turtle Mountain Chippewa and Fort Berthold Three Affiliated Tribes. The NCAA didn't give them a say in the Fighting SIoux issue as they're different tribes, but they've been strongly against Native American nicknames for a long time.

If you want to base your view on UND's nickname on facts, the tribes simply either don't care or are opposed. If you want to base it on emotions I can't help you.

[344Johnson]

UND deserves anything bad that comes their way with this.

They know exactly what "no nickname" means. If they go that road, they'll get the hammer dropped on them. If you had asked me a few years ago, I'd have hoped they pursued that route because it's fun to watch them squirm.. But it's dragged out long enough and gotten sad enough... That I just want them to pick a name. Then they can keep up their Sioux chants.... But it'll slowly go away and they'll get over it.

[Hammersmith]

First off, you've repeatedly claimed that the Standing Rock tribe voted 2-1 to keep the name but the council ignored it. This has not happened, you need to provide a source if you want to keep saying that. I think you're confusing it with the Spirit Lake tribe vote. They did vote 2-1 to keep it, but with 11% turnout only 7% of the tribe voted yes. Hardly overwhelming support. Meets the terms of the NCAA settlement though.

Agreed with everything you wrote except the bolded part. The NCAA required written consent from the official tribal leadership. Based on the SL governmental structure, only a tribal council resolution would have fit the bill. Even after the (non-binding) tribal vote, the SL tribal council chose to do nothing about it. So UND was still 0 for 2 when the deadline expired.

[FCSwatcher]

In 1969 both the Standing Rock and Spirit lake tribes gave UND permanent use of the Sioux name through a Pipe Ceremony. Your statement is false.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hammersmith]

In 1969 both the Standing Rock and Spirit lake tribes gave UND permanent use of the Sioux name through a Pipe Ceremony. Your statement is false.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of which, there's no official written documentation. And I don't believe there are any primary sources that say the permission came during the pipe ceremony. I believe those sources say that a pipe ceremony took place during the pow-wow, and that permission was given at some point during the pow-wow, but not that the two were linked. And by the time this became an issue, I believe all participants had passed. We're now working on second- or third-hand accounts and incomplete written records. And there's the question of whether the delegation in 1969 even had the authority to do what Fighting Sioux Forever claim they did.

Because of all this uncertainty, the NCAA required written confirmation from both tribal governments. Neither tribe provided it.

[SDFS]

Of which, there's no official written documentation. And I don't believe there are any primary sources that say the permission came during the pipe ceremony. I believe those sources say that a pipe ceremony took place during the pow-wow, and that permission was given at some point during the pow-wow, but not that the two were linked. And by the time this became an issue, I believe all participants had passed. We're now working on second- or third-hand accounts and incomplete written records. And there's the question of whether the delegation in 1969 even had the authority to do what Fighting Sioux Forever claim they did.

Because of all this uncertainty, the NCAA required written confirmation from both tribal governments. Neither tribe provided it.

You keep saying that neither tribe approved it which is incorrect. And the Standing Rock tribe never allowed a vote.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/spirit-lake-tribe-oks-measure-supporting-und/article_7e83d43e-a579-11de-a71c-001cc4c03286.html


GRAND FORKS (AP) - The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe has passed a resolution supporting the University of North Dakota's Fighting Sioux nickname.
Tribal council members adopted the measure on Friday. The vote was unanimous.
The resolution confirms the results of an April vote with more than 65 percent of tribe members supporting the nickname and logo.

[344Johnson]

You keep saying that neither tribe approved it which is incorrect. And the Standing Rock tribe never allowed a vote.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/spirit-lake-tribe-oks-measure-supporting-und/article_7e83d43e-a579-11de-a71c-001cc4c03286.html


GRAND FORKS (AP) - The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe has passed a resolution supporting the University of North Dakota's Fighting Sioux nickname.
Tribal council members adopted the measure on Friday. The vote was unanimous.
The resolution confirms the results of an April vote with more than 65 percent of tribe members supporting the nickname and logo.

You will lose if you want to go against Hammersmith. Please retract your statement and go back to your home to avoid humiliation.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You keep saying that neither tribe approved it which is incorrect. And the Standing Rock tribe never allowed a vote.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/spirit-lake-tribe-oks-measure-supporting-und/article_7e83d43e-a579-11de-a71c-001cc4c03286.html


GRAND FORKS (AP) - The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe has passed a resolution supporting the University of North Dakota's Fighting Sioux nickname.
Tribal council members adopted the measure on Friday. The vote was unanimous.
The resolution confirms the results of an April vote with more than 65 percent of tribe members supporting the nickname and logo.

Standing Rock's council voted, that was all that was necessary. Who are you to tell them they had to have a vote?

[F'N Hawks]

This is riveting. Everything I needed to know about UND's nickname situation & history as laid about by NDSU rubes.

[AmsterBison]

This is riveting. Everything I needed to know about UND's nickname situation & history as laid about by NDSU rubes.

How riveting? As riveting as a bunch of white hockey fans complaining about how the NCAA is stealing their "Sioux" identity? Will their Siouxper Nachos not taste as siouxper by another name?

BTW, at least the history laid out by NDSU rubes isn't a fabrication used to justify going against the wishes of just about every Sioux tribal council in North America for the last 20 years. Even so, I'd be fine with UND keeping the nickname - just drop the sanctimonious bullcrap that it was meant to be an honor, and don't get all whiny if opponents don't treat your chosen marketing device as something sacred.

I sincerely hope that NDSU does not regret inviting your clown show to Fargo.

[clenz]

The NCAA doesn't care if UND goes the "no nickname" route....
Prez Kelley also knows, that allowing the "no nickname" route keeps UND open to punishment by the NCAA when the fanbase inevitably reverts to the Sioux moniker...
THIS is one of the reasons Prez Kelley removed the "no nickname" option....fanbase still partially reverts to Sioux moniker regardless, but the university can then throw their hands up and claim innocence....

If the NCAA okays the no nickname thing and the university meets all requirements there is ZERO ****ING REASON to punish the university for what the fans do. Again, maybe the NCAA should focus on the extreme amount of racist, hateful, profane, and threatening things that come out of the stands aimed at players, coaches, and officials rather than if drunk UND hockey fans say "GO SIOUX"

So, what if UND goes with Rough Riders but the same rubes continue with the Sioux ****. Is the NCAA going to say "Well, you went Rough Riders instead of no nickname, so we won't punish you."?

Is UND able to be punished no matter what they do for a nickname? If so, there is zero reason for them to go with a nickname. Would you not agree? Do you not agree that if Minnesota is, or other schools are, "offended" that a fan said the word Sioux and the NCAA punishes them it's complete ridiculous?


UND is 100% to blame for this entire fiasco. They had 50 ****ing years to get the approval of the tribes by any means necessary but chose not to. Their leaderships arrogance over the whole issue has been the sole reason they are in the situation. Just like a few other things UND ****ed up.

This nickname thing isn't some recent controversy. There were people calling for change back in the 70s. A lot of it was directly related to UND fans doing racist ****. There is no need for fans of other schools to complain their own fans do plenty of stupid **** to merit the consequences.
Read my posts through this entire thread, or the other threads on this topic. I'm not absolving UND of any of their issues. They've completely FUBARed this entire process and deserve all of the negative press they've gotten and will get.

Clenz, you're getting way too worked up about the trademark issue. A section of the 2007(ish) settlement deals with that. It says that UND has to maintain the trademarks, and allows them to use the images for limited "legacy" products. They did the first run a couple years back. It's really no big deal. The reason I'm focusing on it is NDSU fans on this thread were up in arms about UND still producing this with the logo on it and couldn't seem to comprehend why. I went over the top to provide a reason that left zero doubt as to why it was happening. Same thing with that website selling those jerseys. Those are UND licensed. They aren't NCAA licensed. You can't even go to the store and buy one of them. You have to order it online and it ships from ****ing China.



You also said the NCAA forced UND to wait a few years before adopting a new nickname. The NCAA had nothing to do with that. The "cooling off period" was forced on everyone by our cluster-fk of a legislature. Specifically a guy I believe was trying to use the nickname fiasco to launch a US House bid. I was oh so happy when the whole thing blew up in his face.Okay, I was wrong there. Was the bid UND sponsored or just some dip**** UND alum/fan?




I think the NCAA is letting UND know that they can't use the "no nickname" option as a way to skirt the settlement by keeping Fighting Sioux the official unofficial nickname. If they go no nickname, then UND has to fully commit to it. They have to do everything in their power to stamp out Fighting Sioux. A simple example: the cheerleaders and PA announcers have to be set up to drown out any Sioux chants as soon as they start.*Again...UND's cheerleaders go away from any old Sioux cheer. There are announcements that state fans are to not use Sioux chants. There are notices posted on doors/tickets that Sioux jerseys are not recommended...remember, I don't know that UND can outright ban a fan from wearing them, nor force them to take it off. Let's say UND does everything they have too and the dipship rubes - just like your dip**** NDSU fans chanting Sioux Suck - still do dumb ****. Should UND be punished?



If UND chooses a new nickname and puts forth an honest effort towards getting it adopted, I think the NCAA will give them a little latitude. They won't get that if they go no nickname.

The NCAA gave them permission to go without. They can't give them permission and then punish them for dumb fans.

Again, what if they go with a nickname and follow the rules. Dumb fans don't get the school punished?
How is them going without a nickname but still following the same rules and discouraging fans from doing stupid **** any different?




An analogy: A kid shows up at (K12) school wearing an offensive t-shirt. The principal says the shirt has to go. The kid says he's got a shirt in his locker that he can put on over the top of the offensive shirt. The principal says okay, and let's him walk to his locker while still wearing the shirt. The principal later sees the kid with an open mesh shirt over the top of the original shirt, and you can clearly see the undershirt. Do you think the principal is going to let it go? Doubt it. While the kid technically complied by putting on a shirt over the top(officially dropping Fighting Sioux and choosing no nickname), the student knowingly chose a shirt that allowed him to continue to display the original(everyone still uses Fighting Sioux).

Fairly weak effort, and you know it. Though better than "I'll punish my son for my daughters actions" from earlier.

[F'N Hawks]

How riveting? As riveting as a bunch of white hockey fans complaining about how the NCAA is stealing their "Sioux" identity? Will their Siouxper Nachos not taste as siouxper by another name?

BTW, at least the history laid out by NDSU rubes isn't a fabrication used to justify going against the wishes of just about every Sioux tribal council in North America for the last 20 years. Even so, I'd be fine with UND keeping the nickname - just drop the sanctimonious bullcrap that it was meant to be an honor, and don't get all whiny if opponents don't treat your chosen marketing device as something sacred.

I sincerely hope that NDSU does not regret inviting your clown show to Fargo.

You seem upset about this, are you affected by it? Tell us more.....

[AmsterBison]

You seem upset about this, are you affected by it? Tell us more.....

Is the Sioux nation asking me?

[Herder]

How riveting? As riveting as a bunch of white hockey fans complaining about how the NCAA is stealing their "Sioux" identity? Will their Siouxper Nachos not taste as siouxper by another name?

BTW, at least the history laid out by NDSU rubes isn't a fabrication used to justify going against the wishes of just about every Sioux tribal council in North America for the last 20 years. Even so, I'd be fine with UND keeping the nickname - just drop the sanctimonious bullcrap that it was meant to be an honor, and don't get all whiny if opponents don't treat your chosen marketing device as something sacred.

I sincerely hope that NDSU does not regret inviting your clown show to Fargo.

It will be a regrettable decision, that much you can bank on. The media in GF will be lining up to write negative fan behavior pieces for the Sunday edition about the deplorable bison fans. I think the over/under betting line is 10 negative articles written by Monday morning, with plenty of editorials to follow, and 2 formal apologies issued by Matt Larson to the fine people of GFU and the sioux tribes.

You have to give Gene Taylor some credit, he didn't let the game happen on his watch. He didn't want to wade in the siouxage the week following the game. The on the field part of it is really not the issue.

[Trumpster]

Clenz, I believe the issue is that UND going with no nickname is bad if it appears like UND isn't doing anything (or not enough) about the Sioux cheers then NCAA might do something about it. All the NCAA cares about is appearances. If it appears like UND is doing everything they can it's good, but if it appears like UND is complicit in Sioux being used they might do something about it.

IMO they shouldn't leave it to chance and just pick a nickname, but I'm just a Bison fan so...

[BisonBacker]

How riveting? As riveting as a bunch of white hockey fans complaining about how the NCAA is stealing their "Sioux" identity? Will their Siouxper Nachos not taste as siouxper by another name?

BTW, at least the history laid out by NDSU rubes isn't a fabrication used to justify going against the wishes of just about every Sioux tribal council in North America for the last 20 years. Even so, I'd be fine with UND keeping the nickname - just drop the sanctimonious bullcrap that it was meant to be an honor, and don't get all whiny if opponents don't treat your chosen marketing device as something sacred.

I sincerely hope that NDSU does not regret inviting your clown show to Fargo.

You are just coming to this conclusion now? This is why I was against this S H ! T Show ever coming back to Fargo and for the clowns who say we had ought to be playing these rubes yearly. No thanks!

[clenz]

Clenz, I believe the issue is that UND going with no nickname is bad if it appears like UND isn't doing anything (or not enough) about the Sioux cheers then NCAA might do something about it. All the NCAA cares about is appearances. If it appears like UND is doing everything they can it's good, but if it appears like UND is complicit in Sioux being used they might do something about it.

IMO they shouldn't leave it to chance and just pick a nickname, but I'm just a Bison fan so...
That's the thing though...

If UND does the exact same thing to stop Sioux cheers no matter what the nickname, or lack there of, what's the true difference?

Let's say they go no nickname and go to branding themselves as THE University of North Dakota instead and they don't verbally announce no Sioux chants will be tolerated and anyone caught by security will be removed from the stadium. They can ban Sioux jerseys. They can go over the top to stop it, but because they went without a nickname it means they are encouraging it?

Listen, as I've said, UND made their bed in the past. HOWEVER, that does not give the NCAA reason to punish UND going forward should they follow the rules/regulations laid out by the NCAA.

Also, giving schools like Minnesota, NDSU, SDSU, or anyone who wants to feel offended by a UND fan power to complain to the NCAA for punishment is. absurdly dumb.

Future punishment wouldn't be for the university doing anything. It wouldn't be because the NCAA found them breaking rules as an insitution. It would be because Minnesota and NDSU wanted to complain to try to stick it to UND as much as they could. At this point it's not about the Sioux tribes being offended...it's white guys in suits at other schools.

The fact that the NCAA would even verbally set that precedent is just....I mean....

[NDSUSR]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21159&stc=1

[clenz]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21159&stc=1
All I see is a broken img link

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/letters/3819196-letter-petulance-some-und-fans-discredits-university

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/letters/3819195-letter-no-nickname-fans-sure-do-sioux-jerseys

[taper]

You seem upset about this, are you affected by it? Tell us more.....

As a taxpayer in ND, you bet I'm affected by this. Every day this farce drags on personally costs me and hundreds of thousands of other non-UND alumni money. They of course haven't released any accounting of how much money was spent, but I bet it's well over $1M by now. They spent $15k on keeping a consultant around ONE DAY longer than planned. They spent more money just setting up their nickname committee than U of South Dakota spent changing all their logos in 2011.
http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/education/3647228-und-puts-thousands-dollars-nickname-task-force

[No_Skill]

Fairly weak effort, and you know it. Though better than "I'll punish my son for my daughters actions" from earlier.

I'll admit that my metaphor was a stretch, but you keep saying that I would punish my son for my daughter's actions and that isn't what I wrote. The son would be punished for refusing to clean up the mess not because the girl helped create it. Yes the boy agreed to clean up at first, but when it came time to do it, he refused. Also, rest assured that the girl would be punished for her actions. Carrying that thought forward, would the NCAA punish opposing fans who start the chants? Maybe.

Personally, I don't care if they choose to go with no nickname, but I do think it's a bad business decision. Having a logo increases your brand recognition and branding is huge in college athletics today.

[PantherRob82]

In 1969 both the Standing Rock and Spirit lake tribes gave UND permanent use of the Sioux name through a Pipe Ceremony. Your statement is false.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cap'n Cat tried getting me to do a Pipe Ceremony once.

[taper]

Again...UND's cheerleaders go away from any old Sioux cheer. There are announcements that state fans are to not use Sioux chants. There are notices posted on doors/tickets that Sioux jerseys are not recommended...remember, I don't know that UND can outright ban a fan from wearing them, nor force them to take it off. Let's say UND does everything they have too and the dipship rubes - just like your dip**** NDSU fans chanting Sioux Suck - still do dumb ****. Should UND be punished?

You sure about that?

Ralph Engelstad Arena general manager Jody Hodgson said the facility, where many UND games are played, would never restrict what fans do, say or wear in regard to Fighting Sioux merchandise.
http://www.inforum.com/news/3818740-sioux-chants-could-mean-consequences-und

Granted I haven't been to any UND home event since they "dropped" the nickname, but there's clearly no restriction on what they say, do, or wear. Just look at the pictures from games or talk to those that do go.

[SDFS]

Agreed with everything you wrote except the bolded part. The NCAA required written consent from the official tribal leadership. Based on the SL governmental structure, only a tribal council resolution would have fit the bill. Even after the (non-binding) tribal vote, the SL tribal council chose to do nothing about it. So UND was still 0 for 2 when the deadline expired.

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/official-spirit-lake-nickname-support-opposed/article_5514ca8e-a9d1-11de-bd08-001cc4c002e0.html

Erich Longie says opponents plan to meet with the Council members on Monday and ask them where they get the authority to give UND "perpetual'' permission to use the nickname.
The state Board of Higher Education has voted to abolish UND's nickname and Indian head logo unless it gets a 30-year agreement from the state's two Sioux tribes by Oct. 1. The Standing Rock Tribal Council has refused to approve a reservation vote on it, but an April vote on the Spirit Lake reservation found a majority in support. The Council last week then passed a resolution confirming the result.
Longie says Spirit Lake opponents do not believe the Council can give perpetual permission. He says future councils should be able to issue new resolutions opposing the nickname.

The Spirit Lake tribe gave perpetual permission via a Council Resolution.

[clenz]

You sure about that?

http://www.inforum.com/news/3818740-sioux-chants-could-mean-consequences-und

Granted I haven't been to any UND home event since they "dropped" the nickname, but there's clearly no restriction on what they say, do, or wear. Just look at the pictures from games or talk to those that do go.
I'm talking going forward in this situation



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[PantherRob82]

You sure about that?

http://www.inforum.com/news/3818740-sioux-chants-could-mean-consequences-und

Granted I haven't been to any UND home event since they "dropped" the nickname, but there's clearly no restriction on what they say, do, or wear. Just look at the pictures from games or talk to those that do go.

She stated the FACILITY wouldn't do anything.

[superman7515]

So wait... What's wrong with Fighting Sioux? Why are they getting rid of that?

[Milkman]

So wait... What's wrong with Fighting Sioux? Why are they getting rid of that?http://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/5271151+_aee87c4bef45448b0e5bb4a2b2a951c4.jpg

[superman7515]

http://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/5271151+_aee87c4bef45448b0e5bb4a2b2a951c4.jpg

If that were true, that name would have been gone decades ago.

[taper]

I'm talking going forward in this situation

Nothing against you, but this made me laugh. Anybody who's had to deal with UND knows there's no going forward. Go read the article I linked and you'll see why.


She stated the FACILITY wouldn't do anything
Jody Hodgson is a white male, who's been very vocal in the REA's support of "honoring" the Sioux. That facility has a ton of power within UND politics, possibly more than the president. I am 100% serious on that.

[PantherRob82]

Nothing against you, but this made me laugh. Anybody who's had to deal with UND knows there's no going forward. Go read the article I linked and you'll see why.


Jody Hodgson is a white male, who's been very vocal in the REA's support of "honoring" the Sioux. That facility has a ton of power within UND politics, possibly more than the president. I am 100% serious on that.

You're a white male.

[F'N Hawks]

As a taxpayer in ND, you bet I'm affected by this. Every day this farce drags on personally costs me and hundreds of thousands of other non-UND alumni money. They of course haven't released any accounting of how much money was spent, but I bet it's well over $1M by now. They spent $15k on keeping a consultant around ONE DAY longer than planned. They spent more money just setting up their nickname committee than U of South Dakota spent changing all their logos in 2011.
http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/education/3647228-und-puts-thousands-dollars-nickname-task-force

Which part of your tax dollars go to UNDs general fund?

[NDSUSR]

Its just keeps getting more and more ridiculous.

The University of North Dakota (UND) is under pressure over their Fighting Sioux (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_cqSbul9q64/Ti3UKbHbTsI/AAAAAAAAEgU/Yz7SEYDB8d4/s400/fighting_sioux_logo.jpg) nickname. This has been a habitual problem (http://www.campusreform.org/blog/the-fight-for-unds-fighting-sioux) on campus, and has now reached a boiling point as 8 Amerindian students are suing (http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/native-american-students-file-lawsuit-over-use-of-fighting-sioux/article_a2014414-c435-11e0-91bb-001cc4c002e0.html)UND, claiming they are in violation of both the state Constitution, and their 14th amendment rights:
"The complaint says the students feel singled out in class and at sporting events due to the nickname and have been subject to ridicule, racism and discriminatory treatment related to it."
An NCAA policy enacted in 2005 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2005-08-05-indian-mascots-ruling_x.htm) states that if a school has a Native American nickname, they will not be allowed to host, or use the mascot, during post season tournaments. This rule threatens UND's bid to join the Big Sky Conference in the coming year, which would provide a great financial boost to the school.
Of course the leftists over at Campus Progress (http://campusprogress.org/articles/court_considers_fourth_amendment_stripper_students _sue_over_fighting_s/) put up a quick post about the issue, cleverly managing to omit some key details. When one looks a bit closer, it's pretty clear that there's much more to the story than provided.
Exceptions to the NCAA rule over nicknames/mascots can be made when the tribe consents to its use by the school. One example is of the Seminole Tribe allowing Florida State University to retain their mascot (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/24/sports/24mascot.html). According to the Bismarck Tribune (http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/native-american-students-file-lawsuit-over-use-of-fighting-sioux/article_a2014414-c435-11e0-91bb-001cc4c002e0.html), of the two Sioux tribes in the state, one approved use of the name, while the other did not take a position.
Many members of the two Sioux tribes are extremely supportive of the nickname (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/17/end-appears-near-for-fighting-sioux-mascot/?page=1), and have started a petition, and even threatened their own lawsuit, if the name is changed. This is not entirely surprising, aspolling done by Sports Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/magazine/08/17/indian.wars030402/index.html)on the matter indicates that a clear majority of Amerindians do not see this as a major issue.
Now, because of political correctness, North Dakotan's tax dollars and precious court time will be wasted in order to appease a small minority of the population. Interestingly none of the 8 Amerindian students behind the lawsuit are even affiliated with either of the two Sioux tribes in North Dakota.
Political correctness is nothing more than a tool to strip away the traditions and cultural heritage of the institutions that stand in the way of the true left wing goal of total equality. This is why its irrelevant to the left who is actually affected by campus policies. By framing every issue on campus as one of bigotry, intolerance, and discrimination, they further their cause.
As they say, perception is reality. This is why its important for conservative student activists to expose the campus left when they attempt to claim a monopoly over the narrative. Contact yourRegional Field Coordinator (http://www.campusreform.org/about/staff)to learn about how you can organize the resistance to left wing pressure groups on your campus.

[superman7515]

Its just keeps getting more and more ridiculous.

Isn't that like 4-5 years old?

[NDSUSR]

Isn't that like 4-5 years old?

Weird... It came across my news stream like 10 minutes ago, but its from 2011. ****ing Microsoft, get Gates out here!!!

[clenz]

Its just keeps getting more and more ridiculous.

The University of North Dakota (UND) is under pressure over their Fighting Sioux (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_cqSbul9q64/Ti3UKbHbTsI/AAAAAAAAEgU/Yz7SEYDB8d4/s400/fighting_sioux_logo.jpg) nickname. This has been a habitual problem (http://www.campusreform.org/blog/the-fight-for-unds-fighting-sioux) on campus, and has now reached a boiling point as 8 Amerindian students are suing (http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/native-american-students-file-lawsuit-over-use-of-fighting-sioux/article_a2014414-c435-11e0-91bb-001cc4c002e0.html)UND, claiming they are in violation of both the state Constitution, and their 14th amendment rights:
"The complaint says the students feel singled out in class and at sporting events due to the nickname and have been subject to ridicule, racism and discriminatory treatment related to it."
An NCAA policy enacted in 2005 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2005-08-05-indian-mascots-ruling_x.htm) states that if a school has a Native American nickname, they will not be allowed to host, or use the mascot, during post season tournaments. This rule threatens UND's bid to join the Big Sky Conference in the coming year, which would provide a great financial boost to the school.
Of course the leftists over at Campus Progress (http://campusprogress.org/articles/court_considers_fourth_amendment_stripper_students _sue_over_fighting_s/) put up a quick post about the issue, cleverly managing to omit some key details. When one looks a bit closer, it's pretty clear that there's much more to the story than provided.
Exceptions to the NCAA rule over nicknames/mascots can be made when the tribe consents to its use by the school. One example is of the Seminole Tribe allowing Florida State University to retain their mascot (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/24/sports/24mascot.html). According to the Bismarck Tribune (http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/native-american-students-file-lawsuit-over-use-of-fighting-sioux/article_a2014414-c435-11e0-91bb-001cc4c002e0.html), of the two Sioux tribes in the state, one approved use of the name, while the other did not take a position.
Many members of the two Sioux tribes are extremely supportive of the nickname (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/17/end-appears-near-for-fighting-sioux-mascot/?page=1), and have started a petition, and even threatened their own lawsuit, if the name is changed. This is not entirely surprising, aspolling done by Sports Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/magazine/08/17/indian.wars030402/index.html)on the matter indicates that a clear majority of Amerindians do not see this as a major issue.
Now, because of political correctness, North Dakotan's tax dollars and precious court time will be wasted in order to appease a small minority of the population. Interestingly none of the 8 Amerindian students behind the lawsuit are even affiliated with either of the two Sioux tribes in North Dakota.
Political correctness is nothing more than a tool to strip away the traditions and cultural heritage of the institutions that stand in the way of the true left wing goal of total equality. This is why its irrelevant to the left who is actually affected by campus policies. By framing every issue on campus as one of bigotry, intolerance, and discrimination, they further their cause.
As they say, perception is reality. This is why its important for conservative student activists to expose the campus left when they attempt to claim a monopoly over the narrative. Contact yourRegional Field Coordinator (http://www.campusreform.org/about/staff)to learn about how you can organize the resistance to left wing pressure groups on your campus.
So...

Half those links don't work and the rest are form like 2011

Where did you find this article?

[NDSUSR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPfsr8BBdA8

[F'N Hawks]

Its just keeps getting more and more ridiculous.

The University of North Dakota (UND) is under pressure over their Fighting Sioux (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_cqSbul9q64/Ti3UKbHbTsI/AAAAAAAAEgU/Yz7SEYDB8d4/s400/fighting_sioux_logo.jpg) nickname. This has been a habitual problem (http://www.campusreform.org/blog/the-fight-for-unds-fighting-sioux) on campus, and has now reached a boiling point as 8 Amerindian students are suing (http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/native-american-students-file-lawsuit-over-use-of-fighting-sioux/article_a2014414-c435-11e0-91bb-001cc4c002e0.html)UND, claiming they are in violation of both the state Constitution, and their 14th amendment rights:
"The complaint says the students feel singled out in class and at sporting events due to the nickname and have been subject to ridicule, racism and discriminatory treatment related to it."
An NCAA policy enacted in 2005 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2005-08-05-indian-mascots-ruling_x.htm) states that if a school has a Native American nickname, they will not be allowed to host, or use the mascot, during post season tournaments. This rule threatens UND's bid to join the Big Sky Conference in the coming year, which would provide a great financial boost to the school.
Of course the leftists over at Campus Progress (http://campusprogress.org/articles/court_considers_fourth_amendment_stripper_students _sue_over_fighting_s/) put up a quick post about the issue, cleverly managing to omit some key details. When one looks a bit closer, it's pretty clear that there's much more to the story than provided.
Exceptions to the NCAA rule over nicknames/mascots can be made when the tribe consents to its use by the school. One example is of the Seminole Tribe allowing Florida State University to retain their mascot (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/24/sports/24mascot.html). According to the Bismarck Tribune (http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/native-american-students-file-lawsuit-over-use-of-fighting-sioux/article_a2014414-c435-11e0-91bb-001cc4c002e0.html), of the two Sioux tribes in the state, one approved use of the name, while the other did not take a position.
Many members of the two Sioux tribes are extremely supportive of the nickname (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/17/end-appears-near-for-fighting-sioux-mascot/?page=1), and have started a petition, and even threatened their own lawsuit, if the name is changed. This is not entirely surprising, aspolling done by Sports Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/magazine/08/17/indian.wars030402/index.html)on the matter indicates that a clear majority of Amerindians do not see this as a major issue.
Now, because of political correctness, North Dakotan's tax dollars and precious court time will be wasted in order to appease a small minority of the population. Interestingly none of the 8 Amerindian students behind the lawsuit are even affiliated with either of the two Sioux tribes in North Dakota.
Political correctness is nothing more than a tool to strip away the traditions and cultural heritage of the institutions that stand in the way of the true left wing goal of total equality. This is why its irrelevant to the left who is actually affected by campus policies. By framing every issue on campus as one of bigotry, intolerance, and discrimination, they further their cause.
As they say, perception is reality. This is why its important for conservative student activists to expose the campus left when they attempt to claim a monopoly over the narrative. Contact yourRegional Field Coordinator (http://www.campusreform.org/about/staff)to learn about how you can organize the resistance to left wing pressure groups on your campus.

Nice work. xthumbsupx

[BisonFan02]

Isn't that like 4-5 years old?

No worries....absolutely nothing has changed since 4-5 years ago.

[Bisonator]

No worries....absolutely nothing has changed since 4-5 years ago.

QFT!xsmhx

[344Johnson]

No worries....absolutely nothing has changed since 4-5 years ago.

Not true, the Fighting Sioux Forever clan changed their name to ND Forever. Sadly... They weren't even smart enough to start wearing ND apparel.

Fortunately for them, the president won't listen to them.

[IBleedYellow]

No worries....absolutely nothing has changed since 4-5 years ago.


Yet we've still thrown 10s of thousands of State dollars at this even though nothing has changed.

[BisonBacker]

Pretty much sums up the whole situation up in elforko grande and Bismarck. Note the taxpayers are the ones on the receiving side.

https://suchanaughtymonkey.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/monkey_poo_for_you_pt6_by_jays_doodles.jpg

[taper]

Which part of your tax dollars go to UNDs general fund?

And this everyone, is a perfect example of a delusional nickname supporter. They truly believe what they're doing doesn't harm anyone else. UND was appropriated $240M and the med school another $71M in the 2015-17 biennium state budget. For comparison NDSU was given $157M despite having more real life, on campus, full time students.
http://www.ndus.edu/uploads/reports/116/analysis-of-2015-17-legislative-appropriation-may-2015.pdf
Scroll down to page 55.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Oh god I love this thread right now. F'n awesome!

It gets so tiresome and then BANG it's fresh and new again.

NDSUSR my faith in humanity is restored brother. Thank you.

Seriously man, that made my day.xlolxxlolxxlolx

[superman7515]

How about Junior Bison? And instead of Thundar, you can have Thundarr the Barbarian.

You can knock off NDSU and He-Man at the same time.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/heman/images/d/d3/He-man.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110826225326

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/thundarr/images/2/20/Thundarr1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110912011734


Seriously, they need to build an amusement park or a strip club or a swimming pool somewhere in that trailer park you call North Dakota. Of the 11 most replied to threads on this board, you have: NDSU vs Georgia Southern (2011), Georgia Southern @ NDSU (2012), The MVFC (2014), NDSU vs SHSU Title Game Thread (2012), NDSU at Youngstown State (2013). It's no wonder the population of North Dakota is so small, you're all too busy on AGS to fornicate. xlolx

[BisonTru]

How about Junior Bison? And instead of Thundar, you can have Thundarr the Barbarian.

You can knock off NDSU and He-Man at the same time.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/heman/images/d/d3/He-man.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110826225326

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/thundarr/images/2/20/Thundarr1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110912011734


Seriously, they need to build an amusement park or a strip club or a swimming pool somewhere in that trailer park you call North Dakota. Of the 11 most replied to threads on this board, you have: NDSU vs Georgia Southern (2011), Georgia Southern @ NDSU (2012), The MVFC (2014), NDSU vs SHSU Title Game Thread (2012), NDSU at Youngstown State (2013). It's no wonder the population of North Dakota is so small, you're all too busy on AGS to fornicate. xlolx

A swimming pool, amusement park? Oh, yay! A couple more activities for the three months every other outside activity is scheduled.

On a serious note, we could use more strip clubs. That's a year round activity we can all enjoy.

[NDSUSR]

Oh god I love this thread right now. F'n awesome!

It gets so tiresome and then BANG it's fresh and new again.

NDSUSR my faith in humanity is restored brother. Thank you.

Seriously man, that made my day.xlolxxlolxxlolx

Yeah my bad, you will still be paying me soon so dont get too happy.

[F'N Hawks]

And this everyone, is a perfect example of a delusional nickname supporter. They truly believe what they're doing doesn't harm anyone else. UND was appropriated $240M and the med school another $71M in the 2015-17 biennium state budget. For comparison NDSU was given $157M despite having more real life, on campus, full time students.
http://www.ndus.edu/uploads/reports/116/analysis-of-2015-17-legislative-appropriation-may-2015.pdf
Scroll down to page 55.

I am far from a nickname supporter. I want the name gone ASAP so they can move on. This just happens to be my handle on here from way back.

So where in that 84 page PDF does it state what percentage of your taxes goes to UND's general fund? Because I know none of mine goes to NDSU's general fund (which never wastes money), right?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yeah my bad, you will still be paying me soon so dont get too happy.

Dude, I'm not trying to be a dick to you. I make mistakes like that **** all the time. It was just really funny man, in a friendly sort of way.

For someone claiming no sensitivity issues prior you react somewhat defensively to any fun to be had...a bit of a fun vampire if you will.

You ain't winning **** btw but if you do I'll gladly pay up, as will you, I'm sure.

[SUPharmacist]

I am far from a nickname supporter. I want the name gone ASAP so they can move on. This just happens to be my handle on here from way back.

So where in that 84 page PDF does it state what percentage of your taxes goes to UND's general fund? Because I know none of mine goes to NDSU's general fund (which never wastes money), right?

I don't live in North Dakota, so my taxes do not go to either school (my tuition went to NDSU, you can guess where donations go). While this particular expense comes out of the general fund, you don't think that amount of funding may change how they spend that general fund. More money to go around means general fund may not need to be spent on other projects. It is interesting to see the funding discrepancy from the state for two similar and similarly sized universities, not being a resident I have no say and their may be legitimate reasons (med school), but it seems this is driven by the lawyers in Bismarck who graduated from you guessed it UND. Anyways I should stop my whining, I live in MN where the University of Minnesota would never let another state school have any shot to be considered near equal god forbid superior in some areas.

[NDSUSR]

Dude, I'm not trying to be a dick to you. I make mistakes like that **** all the time. It was just really funny man, in a friendly sort of way.

For someone claiming no sensitivity issues prior you react somewhat defensively to any fun to be had...a bit of a fun vampire if you will.

You ain't winning **** btw but if you do I'll gladly pay up, as will you, I'm sure.

I didnt take it that way at all. 99% of my posts are tongue in cheek. :)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I didnt take it that way at all. 99% of my posts are tongue in cheek. :)

Well I think I've said this before. They don't read that way so if you have any way of showing you are actually having a good time and not being damaged I'd sure appreciate the help. Glad you didn't take it as the "HA HA" guy from the Simpson's cuz it was certainly not meant like that one bit.xthumbsupx

[BisonFan02]

Well I think I've said this before. They don't read that way so if you have any way of showing you are actually having a good time and not being damaged I'd sure appreciate the help. Glad you didn't take it as the "HA HA" guy from the Simpson's cuz it was certainly not meant like that one bit.xthumbsupx

You're damaged. :D xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

YOU ARE!

[BisonFan02]

YOU ARE!

https://cobblepott.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/whatami-2.gif

[NDSUSR]

Fine! Ursus you suck! :)

Does the emoji clarify? ****er!

[dakotadan]

For someone claiming no sensitivity issues prior you react somewhat defensively to any fun to be had...a bit of a FUN VAMPIRE if you will.
You may have just come up with the best nickname suggest that I have ever heard!

The UND Fun Vampires!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Fine! Ursus you suck! :)

Does the emoji clarify? ****er!

It does give me a warm fuzzy now that you mention it and let's me know you are still having some fun. What you will see at the end of this sentence is my approval of your efforts with the ol' "thumbs up buttercup" emoticoney.xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You may have just come up with the best nickname suggest that I have ever heard!

The UND Fun Vampires!

I trademarked it about 7 yrs. back and have to use it periodically to enforce.

[Yote 53]

North Dakota Turtlenecks



IDK, it just popped into my head and sounded good.

[BisonFan02]

http://www3.forumnewspaper.com/olive/Tablet/Forum/SharedArticle.aspx?href=Forum%2F2015%2F08%2F22&id=Ar00400


The judge’s memo said the nickname ordeal cost the state “over $2 million in attorney fees and expenses,” but later documents said the total actually exceeded $5 million, according to Herald archives.

[Bisonoline]

http://www3.forumnewspaper.com/olive/Tablet/Forum/SharedArticle.aspx?href=Forum%2F2015%2F08%2F22&id=Ar00400

5 million? That buys a lot of clown shoes.

[NDSUSR]

One poster dropped his suggestions:
I like the first 3. Seems better than the options they have been given.


"Posted Friday at 1:40 PM · Report post (http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/20671-ncaa-to-sanction-und-if-school-does-not-adopt-new-nickname/?do=reportComment&comment=804514) Should have looked at aircraft nicknames during the making of the list.
Banshee, Blackbird,Phantom, Lightning.....
Many aero theme nicknames.
I think the consultants and committee really dropped the ball on the choices you have been given."

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Hey Clenz, notice the pictures of the No nickname rallies? What is everybody wearing?

http://www.wday.com/news/north-dakota/3823478-grand-forks-protesters-want-robert-kelley-out-president-north-dakota

http://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/letters/3822569-letter-im-ok-youre-ok-und-nickname-situation-not-ok

So no nickname has nothing to do with them wanting to keep the Sioux nickname?

[clenz]

Hey Clenz, notice the pictures of the No nickname rallies? What is everybody wearing?

http://www.wday.com/news/north-dakota/3823478-grand-forks-protesters-want-robert-kelley-out-president-north-dakota

http://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/letters/3822569-letter-im-ok-youre-ok-und-nickname-situation-not-ok

So no nickname has nothing to do with them wanting to keep the Sioux nickname?
Again...I'm not sure what fans have to do with the institution taking steps required of them by the NCAA.


Take off your Bisssson glasses for a damn second and look at it.

Judging UND off of them is like us judging NDSU entirely on Lakes, NoDak, JBB, etc...

I mean...we can....I can...do you really want that though?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Again...I'm not sure what fans have to do with the institution taking steps required of them by the NCAA.


Take off your Bisssson glasses for a damn second and look at it.

Judging UND off of them is like us judging NDSU entirely on Lakes, NoDak, JBB, etc...

I mean...we can....I can...do you really want that though?

When was the last time you were in Grand Forks? Did you see any of the hockey games on ESPN? I have dozens of UND fans among my friends and that's all you see is that Sioux logo everywhere.

[clenz]

When was the last time you were in Grand Forks? Did you see any of the hockey games on ESPN? I have dozens of UND fans among my friends and that's all you see is that Sioux logo everywhere.
Much like the poli threads, you're skating around what is being said to prove your own biased point

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Much like the poli threads, you're skating around what is being said to prove your own biased point

What is being said is the position of "No Nickname" is basically tacit approval to continue the Sioux nickname into perpetuity.

The institution has basically been a plastic bag blowing in the wind on this issue, and they have often been blowing in the wrong way. YOU are trying to prove a point which isn't being argued. Using weak ass cheap shots won't make that point any better.

[bisonguy]

http://www3.forumnewspaper.com/olive/Tablet/Forum/SharedArticle.aspx?href=Forum%2F2015%2F08%2F22&id=Ar00400

That $5 million figure is from 2007. They've spent a few more dollars since then.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

What is being said is the position of "No Nickname" is basically tacit approval to continue the Sioux nickname into perpetuity.

The institution has basically been a plastic bag blowing in the wind on this issue, and they have often been blowing in the wrong way. YOU are trying to prove a point which isn't being argued. Using weak ass cheap shots won't make that point any better.

No, you and a couple other Bison fans are arguing something that isn't really up for debate. If their fans want to wear the logo they wore for a long damn time on their own it ain't one f'n bit of your concern or any other dip**** opposing fan.

Quit acting like bitches. If the school does what it is supposed to do then STFU. What a bunch of f'n whiners.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

No, you and a couple other Bison fans are arguing something that isn't really up for debate. If their fans want to wear the logo they wore for a long damn time on their own it ain't one f'n bit of your concern or any other dip**** opposing fan.

Quit acting like bitches. If the school does what it is supposed to do then STFU. What a bunch of f'n whiners.

Look, if they want to self-immolate, I'm all for it. Don't pretend that's not what they're doing.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Look, if they want to self-immolate, I'm all for it. Don't pretend that's not what they're doing.

Great. But it ain't any outsiders business what individual fans choose to wear. It's their own deal.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

Great. But it ain't any outsiders business what individual fans choose to wear. It's their own deal.
Yes it is when we are paying for this disaster with our taxes.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yes it is when we are paying for this disaster with our taxes.

Yeah I saw that bull**** coming a mile away. You want to stop spending taxes on it then stop trying to make a big deal out of controlling what another teams fans choose to wear in their wardrobe...it's none of your god damn business.

Now if the school is stepping out of line then open your mouth about it. If not, keep it shut and save some money.xthumbsupx

[TheRevSFA]

No, you and a couple other Bison fans are arguing something that isn't really up for debate. If their fans want to wear the logo they wore for a long damn time on their own it ain't one f'n bit of your concern or any other dip**** opposing fan.

Quit acting like bitches. If the school does what it is supposed to do then STFU. What a bunch of f'n whiners.

They bitch but yet are still gonna wear the "Sioux Suck ****" shirts and chant it as well...

[ursus arctos horribilis]

They bitch but yet are still gonna wear the "Sioux Suck ****" shirts and chant it as well...

Yes, it's why I can't see why a few of the Bison fans think they need to manufacture some reason (taxes...xlolx) to justify their little schadenfreude bull**** like we can't see their pettiness in full view. As you say, if meant so f'n much they'd worry about their own morons wearing something like that.

Most of the Bison fans around here at least are a lot better than what a few are acting like is some big travesty so I only point my comments and them.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

They bitch but yet are still gonna wear the "Sioux Suck ****" shirts and chant it as well...

Nope, we will say "_____ suck ****"

It's not the nickname, it's them.