Holy Cross to Play Syracuse in 2019; Posts 2016 and 2017 Schedules

[breezy]

Holy Cross announced today that it will play Syracuse in 2019, and posted its schedules for 2016 and 2017.

HC now scheduled to meet FBS schools Connecticut (2017), Syracuse (2019) and Boston College (2018 and 2020).

The schedules for the next two years are extremely challenging.

See: http://goholycross.com/sports/m-footbl/2014-15/releases/2015040153ojxe

[DFW HOYA]

Holy Cross announced today that it will play Syracuse in 2019, and posted its schedules for 2016 and 2017.

HC now scheduled to meet FBS schools Connecticut (2017), Syracuse (2019) and Boston College (2018 and 2020).

The schedules for the next two years are extremely challenging.

See: http://goholycross.com/sports/m-footbl/2014-15/releases/2015040153ojxe

Any interest in trading for Marist and St. Francis? xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Nice job by the Cross to make this happen. PL schedules now look the same as the rest of scholarship FCS xthumbsupx

[BluBengal07]

xthumbsupx congrats on the paychecks with Mid/lower local FBS programs.

[PAllen]

Let's wait and see what Lehigh and Bucknell can come up with before we get too crazy LFN.

[PAllen]

xthumbsupx congrats on the paychecks with Mid/lower local FBS programs.

And regional ones with some historical ties at that. Pretty much perfect pickings by HC. Now, if Lehigh could only get something going with Rutgers, Army, UConn, Buffalo, and Temple, then I'd be thrilled.
(More than one with Navy would extremely nice too, but I'm not holding my breath)

[RichH2]

Kudos to Cross. Great scheduling. Guess we can kill the rumor that Cuse and LU were working on a game. PL making excellent strides upgrading OOC schedules. So far LU only has Navy in '18. Would be nice to see an FBS game every other year. Each class would at get at least 2 . Agree Rutgers and Temple would be great. How about Wake Forest? We may have an in there :)

[Fordham]

Kudos to Cross. Great scheduling. Guess we can kill the rumor that Cuse and LU were working on a game. PL making excellent strides upgrading OOC schedules. So far LU only has Navy in '18. Would be nice to see an FBS game every other year. Each class would at get at least 2 . Agree Rutgers and Temple would be great. How about Wake Forest? We may have an in there :)not as strong as our in!

[RichH2]

not as strong as our in!
:):) Yeah,probably but we have 2 to your 1 .

[hebmskebm]

I'm liking these moves. Playing FBS schools, when done for reasons other than sheer financial desperation (like being forced to schedule 2+ a year just to keep the program afloat), is a positive for any FCS program.

[Go Green]

I'm liking these moves. Playing FBS schools, when done for reasons other than sheer financial desperation (like being forced to schedule 2+ a year just to keep the program afloat), is a positive for any FCS program.

The Ivies played several games against today's FBS teams in the 1980s. It wasn't pretty.

Maybe the Patriots can do better. But those who cannot remember the past yada, yada...

[RichH2]

Good point Green. Context important for current upgrading in PL. Bothe Gate and Cross were University division ,the rest of were College. Their aggressive upgrading may stem in part from those remembered times when these teams were regularly on their schedules. Not that the rest of us didn't play them occasionally also,but those games were not major part of our histories. One need only scan either of their fan boards to feel the ongoing angst many still harbor over the loss of the good old days.

[DFW HOYA]

Good point Green. Context important for current upgrading in PL. Bothe Gate and Cross were University division ,the rest of were College. Their aggressive upgrading may stem in part from those remembered times when these teams were regularly on their schedules. Not that the rest of us didn't play them occasionally also,but those games were not major part of our histories. One need only scan either of their fan boards to feel the ongoing angst many still harbor over the loss of the good old days.

I was behind a Holy Cross fan standing in line for HC's first appearance at Kehoe Field in 1996 (the only place in college football where the woebegone MSF would be a decided step up for a program). He said: "We used to play Army and BC..." and looking around he muttered, "And now this."

[Go Green]

I was behind a Holy Cross fan standing in line for HC's first appearance at Kehoe Field in 1996 (the only place in college football where the woebegone MSF would be a decided step up for a program). He said: "We used to play Army and BC..." and looking around he muttered, "And now this."

Wonder what the guy said when HC played Fairfield....

[DFW HOYA]

Wonder what the guy said when HC played Fairfield....

At least those were at Fitton.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Let's wait and see what Lehigh and Bucknell can come up with before we get too crazy LFN.

Bucknell plays at Army this year. The program has been historically tight-lipped about future schedules, but Navy and Duke have been mentioned.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I'm interested to see how the Lehigh-Navy game turns out. If Coen and the team were complaining about Yale last year they'll love facing the Midshipmen. Even the big BIG boys hate playing them. Assuming Niumatalolo is still there, my guess is they'll be pretty darn good. Even in 2017 I'll take Navy -24 and +3 on injured Lehigh starters.

Some of these games are going to be ugly....

[Sader87]

I was behind a Holy Cross fan standing in line for HC's first appearance at Kehoe Field in 1996 (the only place in college football where the woebegone MSF would be a decided step up for a program). He said: "We used to beat Army and BC..." and looking around he muttered, "And now this."

fify :)

Call me a masochist, but I'd rather lose to Syracuse 45-10 than beat some of the non-league schools we've played recently....

[Go Green]

Call me a masochist, but I'd rather lose to Syracuse 45-10 than beat some of the non-league schools we've played recently....
The Ivy schedulers prefer the latter.

Dartmouth lost to Navy 45-0 in 1986.

Princeton lost to Northwestern 37-0 in 1986

Yale lost to Hawaii 62-10 in 1987

Brown lost to Penn State 38-21 in 1983 and was utterly giddy about it

Cornell lost to Stanford 56-6 in 1991

Penn gave up the "big time" opponents after years of huge blowouts in the 1950s.

Columbia is Columbia.

And as I said last week, it's not clear exactly why Harvard downgraded its schedule. They never really got blown away in games like I listed...

[Sader87]

Last Syracuse-HC game.....a 5-3 win for the Orangemen (yes, 5-3) on a brutally cold day at Fitton in 1973....and yes, I was there as a frigid 9 year old :)

[Go Green]

Last Syracuse-HC game.....a 5-3 win for the Orangemen (yes, 5-3) on a brutally cold day at Fitton in 1973....and yes, I was there as a frigid 9 year old :)

Congrats to the Crusaders for fighting the good fight.

And I don't know how things went down, but the guess here is that the decision to discontinue the series was made before the 1973 game was played.

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/active/h/holy_cross/opponents_records.php?teamid=3150

[UAalum72]

And as I said last week, it's not clear exactly why Harvard downgraded its schedule. They never really got blown away in games like I listed...
Harvard was 1-4 against Army from 1980-89. Three close losses and a win from 80-83 and a 56-28 loss in '89. After that it was all Holy Cross and another Patriot or two, with UMass, Northeastern or William & Mary sprinkled in.

1980 was the year the IL increased its schedule to 10 games, so they suddenly had room on their slates for an extra opponent.

[Go Green]

Harvard was 1-4 against Army from 1980-89. Three close losses and a win from 80-83 and a 56-28 loss in '89. After that it was all Holy Cross and another Patriot or two, with UMass, Northeastern or William & Mary sprinkled in.

1980 was the year the IL increased its schedule to 10 games, so they suddenly had room on their slates for an extra opponent.

I know that the 1989 loss was a bad one. But that was the only lopsided game in a series that included two Harvard victories when we went to a 10-game schedule. I just can't believe that game was the reason why Harvard shied away from the bigger boys...

[Sader87]

It's really almost criminal how watered-down Harvard has allowed their OOC schedules to become in the Murphy-era. The Harvard teams ovah the past decade could have competed with many of the CAA teams, probably Army some years etc. etc. They really need to step out of their self-imposed bubble.

[Go...gate]

Colgate and Cross will be also playing Albany regularly. Good move.

[Go...gate]

It's really almost criminal how watered-down Harvard has allowed their OOC schedules to become in the Murphy-era. The Harvard teams ovah the past decade could have competed with many of the CAA teams, probably Army some years etc. etc. They really need to step out of their self-imposed bubble.

Princeton has gone in the same direction.

[Go...gate]

I'm liking these moves. Playing FBS schools, when done for reasons other than sheer financial desperation (like being forced to schedule 2+ a year just to keep the program afloat), is a positive for any FCS program.

Agreed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's really almost criminal how watered-down Harvard has allowed their OOC schedules to become in the Murphy-era. The Harvard teams ovah the past decade could have competed with many of the CAA teams, probably Army some years etc. etc. They really need to step out of their self-imposed bubble.

Not too much, because they scheduled Lehigh. Or I should say, used to, because after we won most of them (6-3 since 1998), they stopped. xlolx

[UAalum72]

I know that the 1989 loss was a bad one. But that was the only lopsided game in a series that included two Harvard victories when we went to a 10-game schedule. I just can't believe that game was the reason why Harvard shied away from the bigger boys...Just accept that those five games were very much the exception. For 25 years before that there was only a game vs. Ohio (in 1957) and Buffalo that might be called "major" opponents. Going back to WWII Harvard played one each vs. Stanford and Virginia and a couple more vs. Ohio and Army. Meanwhile they played FIVE against Tufts (the last in 1966), plus games vs. Springfield and the Coast Guard.

[Sader87]

I know Harvard played Rutgers, UMass and BU (beside HC, Army and W&M) somewhat regularly in the 70s and 80s....they played much tougher schedules under Restic than they have with Murphy.

[UAalum72]

The last time Harvard played Rutgers (1974) the Knights' schedule was Lafayette, Princeton, Bucknell, Lehigh, UConn (Yankee Conf.), William & Mary, Boston U, and Colgate, plus Air Force and Hawaii. That is, the same that you would expect an Ivy/Patriot independent to play today with two FBS opponents.

This whole thing about these schools having played better opposition forty years ago is based on that they were ALL "Division I" (and attendance was better because there were no games on cable). They were pretty much playing the same FCS level schools that they have to play today. The only difference is that you don't recognize that Wagner or Sacred Heart (or pick your so-called cupcake) have nearly the same level talent as the Ivy/Patriot has today.

[PAllen]

The last time Harvard played Rutgers (1974) the Knights' schedule was Lafayette, Princeton, Bucknell, Lehigh, UConn (Yankee Conf.), William & Mary, Boston U, and Colgate, plus Air Force and Hawaii. That is, the same that you would expect an Ivy/Patriot independent to play today with two FBS opponents.

This whole thing about these schools having played better opposition forty years ago is based on that they were ALL "Division I" (and attendance was better because there were no games on cable). They were pretty much playing the same FCS level schools that they have to play today. The only difference is that you don't recognize that Wagner or Sacred Heart (or pick your so-called cupcake) have nearly the same level talent as the Ivy/Patriot has today.

Except that Harvard is ducking the CAA (W&M, modern day Yankee Conf., etc) and sure as heck isn't scheduling Air Force or Hawaii. Instead, they are scheduling partial or non-scholarship programs. That's exactly what folks are talking about.

Regarding an earlier post, Buffalo prior to the '90s wasn't much of anything to look at. Lehigh played them both before and after their transition to FBS and I gotta say, I wasn't impressed.

[DFW HOYA]

Except that Harvard is ducking the CAA (W&M, modern day Yankee Conf., etc) and sure as heck isn't scheduling Air Force or Hawaii. Instead, they are scheduling partial or non-scholarship programs. That's exactly what folks are talking about.


Over the next four seasons, Harvard is playing through a rotation of four schools.

Lafayette (45 scholarships in 2015, at 60 in 2017 per 2012 PL scholarship decision)
Holy Cross (60 scholarships in 2016, 2018)
Rhode Island (55 scholarships in 2015,16,17,18)
Georgetown (no scholarships in 2015,16,17,18; rejected 2012 PL scholarship decision)

In that sense, Harvard is playing "up" to three of the four schools.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In that sense, Harvard is playing "up" to three of the four schools.

I doubt they see it that way.

BTW, when was the last time one of those four teams you mention had a winning record? Which has as much to do with their scheduling decision as anything.

[DFW HOYA]

I doubt they see it that way.

BTW, when was the last time one of those four teams you mention had a winning record? Which has as much to do with their scheduling decision as anything.

Georgetown: 2011
Holy Cross: 2010
Lafayette: 2009
Rhode Island: 2001

[Go Green]

I doubt they see it that way.



They don't.

Murphy has also made comments indicating that he's worried that the PL with scholarships will take them back to the levels of 1980s and early 1990s Holy Cross teams. If Harvard loses a game or two to Lafayette and HC, don't be surprised to see more PFL teams on Harvard's future slates.

And I can only hope that the Harvard administration would intervene when Murphy tries to schedule a game with the College of Faith....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Harvard's MO is that they schedule OOC teams they feel they can beat, and when they start beating them regularly, they find someone worse to beat.

Eventually they, and the rest of the Ivy League, will run out of those teams.

[DFW HOYA]

Harvard's MO is that they schedule OOC teams they feel they can beat, and when they start beating them regularly, they find someone worse to beat.

Eventually they, and the rest of the Ivy League, will run out of those teams.

Perhaps, but if the Ivy doesn't want to get stomped by the PL 6, what are their options?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Perhaps, but if the Ivy doesn't want to get stomped by the PL 6, what are their options?

There's no evidence that the PL 6 "stomps" on the Ancient 8 regularly, Lehigh's 6-3 record against Harvard to the contrary.

The IL and PL series, as you might expect, is fiercely competitive, with the series every year pretty much ending at .500 between the two conferences. That doesn't seem to be enough for some IL schools, though. They need to win all the time.

[RichH2]

Rather unlikely,even with full 60 schollies,that PL will stomp the IL on a regular basis. At best it will even the playing field perhaps slightly in favor of PL. Given the recruits HYP bring in yearly,stomping them seems improbable. Just winning will be no sure thing. Perhaps,given IL's parochial outlook, OOC is merely filler to prepare for conference schedule. Murphy wants scrimmages not Ls.

[DFW HOYA]

Rather unlikely,even with full 60 schollies,that PL will stomp the IL on a regular basis. At best it will even the playing field perhaps slightly in favor of PL.

When Dartmouth sees Colgate with 60 scholarships, they do not see an opponent "slightly in favor", they see the next UNH.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

When Dartmouth sees Colgate with 60 scholarships, they do not see an opponent "slightly in favor", they see the next UNH.

The difference between the IL and the PL is that the PL saw their model in the context of the FCS football marketplace and saw that they could do something to be more in line and in competition with the FCS schools in the area, such as Villanova, Delaware, etc. The IL saw this and their response was to schedule weaker competition rather than try to change the way they do business. Rather than schedule Delawre and Villanova, they're scheduling Marist.

[Gater]

Dartmouth is free is your parents make less than $100,000. Princeton is free is your parents make less than $120,000. That's a whole lot of scholarships in all sports without calling them scholarships. Smart folk, these Ivyers.

http://www.businessinsider.com/congrats-you-got-into-the-school-of-your-dreams-now-its-time-to-think-about-how-to-pay-for-it-2015-4

[Go Green]

When Dartmouth sees Colgate with 60 scholarships, they do not see an opponent "slightly in favor", they see the next UNH.

More to the point, they see Mark Dufner's Holy Cross teams.

I'm still in the "wait and see" camp. There was similar Armageddon talk when the Patriots went scholarship in basketball. But PL dominance never materialized...

[Sader87]

And it won't this time either......the AI and no red-shirts for HC will limit how strong HC (and other PL teams) will be going forward.

HC will be bettah but I doubt we'll evah approach how good the HC teams of the 1980s were moving forward.

[Go...gate]

Colgate has added a game at Buffalo to its 2017 schedule along with road games at Bryant and Cornell.

The Red Raiders will also host Richmond and Furman in 2017.

Strange (and regrettable) seeing the Colgate football schedule with only one Ivy League opponent.

[RichH2]

Colgate has added a game at Buffalo to its 2017 schedule along with road games at Bryant and Cornell.

The Red Raiders will also host Richmond and Furman in 2017.

Strange (and regrettable) seeing the Colgate football schedule with only one Ivy League opponent.
May not totally be Gate's fault. Some Ivies are backing away from scheduling PL games.

[DFW HOYA]

Ivy-PL games as of 2017 (not including Georgetown)

Brown: None
Cornell: Colgate
Columbia: None
Dartmouth: None
Harvard: Lafayette
Pennsylvania: None
Princeton: Lafayette
Yale: Lehigh, Holy Cross

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ivy-PL games as of 2017 (not including Georgetown)

Brown: None
Cornell: Colgate
Columbia: None
Dartmouth: None
Harvard: Lafayette
Pennsylvania: None
Princeton: Lafayette
Yale: Lehigh, Holy Cross

I thought Penn was playing Lehigh again past 2017, but don't quote me on that. I thought the same smattering of Ivies were on the upcoming schedules.

[Sader87]

Ivy-PL games as of 2017 (not including Georgetown)

Brown: None
Cornell: Colgate
Columbia: None
Dartmouth: None
Harvard: Lafayette
Pennsylvania: None
Princeton: Lafayette
Yale: Lehigh, Holy Cross

Holy Cross is playing Dartmouth in 2017 and I'd gather, will continue to keep playing moving forward.

My guess, but the current snit the Ancient VIII is having with the PL will subside and there will be many PL-IL tilts in the future.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Holy Cross is playing Dartmouth in 2017 and I'd gather, will continue to keep playing moving forward.

My guess, but the current snit the Ancient VIII is having with the PL will subside and there will be many PL-IL tilts in the future.

Not that hypocrisy has ever stopped the IL before, but it would be the height of hypocrisy to have to going through hoops to have Yale host Army and then "punish" the PL for offering scholarships so they can get more games with teams like... Army.

[Gater]

Looked up the two PL schools I thought would post future schedules. Both are playing Ivy League schools in 2017. Would imagine there have to be more.

Holy Cross playing Dartmouth and Yale in 2017
http://www.goholycross.com/sports/m-footbl/future

Fordham playing Yale in 2017 (with two open dates)
http://fordhamsports.com/sports/2013/12/16/FB_1216132111.aspx?path=football

[RichH2]

LU has Ivies every year at least thru 18.

[DFW HOYA]

Corrections noted--the 2017 reference was to the ivy League future schedules page, which has not kept up with many of the recent announcements.

The PL remains a study in contrasts. Fordham is aggressively picking up I-A opponents across the board (Hawaii? Tulsa??) while Lehigh and Lafayette will take a more conservative approach. Georgetown isn't even on the sidelines, it's on another street altogether.

[Gater]

Over the next four years Colgate has Navy, Syracuse, Buffalo, and Boston College.

Seems like 3-1 is a given. B.C. has the best chance of giving 'gate a game.

[Go Green]

Not that hypocrisy has ever stopped the IL before, but it would be the height of hypocrisy to have to going through hoops to have Yale host Army and then "punish" the PL for offering scholarships so they can get more games with teams like... Army.

What hoops did the Ivy League jump through to get Yale to play Army? If the league did a thing, I didn't hear about it. I'm sure Yale and Army worked on getting Army the waiver for bowl-victory counting (turned out to be moot), but surely the Ivy League didn't have much to do with that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What hoops did the Ivy League jump through to get Yale to play Army? If the league did a thing, I didn't hear about it. I'm sure Yale and Army worked on getting Army the waiver for bowl-victory counting (turned out to be moot), but surely the Ivy League didn't have much to do with that.

The IL certainly didn't punish Ivy for scheduling Army.

[Go...gate]

Hard for a Colgate man to say this, but I tip my hat to Cornell - at least they will still play us.

[DFW HOYA]

It takes two to schedule. Yes, the Ivy looks at non-conference games as warm-ups to league play and is not looking to get embarassed by schools seeking to play UConn in September instead of Yale.

But the Patriot-6 wants marquee games of its own that stretch beyond the Ivy realm and are openly campaigning for I-A games. It seems that both groups are going to find other schools for games because it suits their current interests.

[Gangtackle11]

I hear Villanova will play Lehigh & Bucknell in the years ahead. I like playing the in state PL teams. Also renewing Temple series. I wonder if it's a strategic move by Villanova to play 3 in states in '17?

[DFW HOYA]

I hear Villanova will play Lehigh & Bucknell in the years ahead. I like playing the in state PL teams. Also renewing Temple series. I wonder if it's a strategic move by Villanova to play 3 in states in '17?

Yet Villanova will never play in DC. I think Talley would rather take a bye week than schedule Georgetown.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I hear Villanova will play Lehigh & Bucknell in the years ahead. I like playing the in state PL teams. Also renewing Temple series. I wonder if it's a strategic move by Villanova to play 3 in states in '17?

Lots to like in the form of in-state FCS games like this. Bus trip for all, accessible for the fans, and it's a pretty exciting game at a low cost. Now, if Villanova could do a better job hyping up the game for their own fans/students, we'd really have something. xthumbsupx

[RichH2]

Like going up against Penn and Nova. Both can be great series. While I would like to see more FBS games,if its a choice between the two,I opt for the former.

[Gangtackle11]

Lots to like in the form of in-state FCS games like this. Bus trip for all, accessible for the fans, and it's a pretty exciting game at a low cost. Now, if Villanova could do a better job hyping up the game for their own fans/students, we'd really have something. xthumbsupx


Can't argue your point. Maybe playing Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette on a regular basis would create some fan interest on the Main Line. The team deserves better fan/administration support for sure. Maybe playing familiar well established PL teams can improve the fan base or at the very least have the visitors side filled. Great program that goes largely unnoticed is a shame.

[Gangtackle11]

Yet Villanova will never play in DC. I think Talley would rather take a bye week than schedule Georgetown.

Maybe the no scholarship GT is the reason? They played Penn because of Al Bagnoli friendship. The game isn't competitive and ends this year.

i think playing Georgetown would be awesome if it was on even ground scholarship wise.

[DFW HOYA]

i think playing Georgetown would be awesome if it was on even ground scholarship wise.

Well, that's the Gordian knot, isn't it?

"Georgetown football: We compete where we do not play, and play where we do not compete."

[Sader87]

Villanova sticking their big toe in the PL ocean???? xeyebrowx

[RichH2]

Villanova sticking their big toe in the PL ocean???? xeyebrowx
Gotta wonder.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Villanova sticking their big toe in the PL ocean???? xeyebrowx
Pond? Puddle?