Question on NCAA rules/bylaws

[OSBF]

Just discovered that through a friend of a friend sort of thing I know the attorney that's on constant retainer representing our men's basketball team.

Sounds like his job is to broker the deals that keep kids out of jail when they screw up

I didn't know it was permissible for the university to provide legal assistance to student athletes in personal/private criminal matters

News to me

Anybody know anything about how this sort of stuff works?

[AmsterBison]

Well, I know that North Dakota State could use a Student Defense League to defend students' rights. A lot of kids get no legal advice and, in Fargo, they've got an entire machine for "helping" kids by giving them criminal records, 95% of which consist of minor being at a party.

Make the drinking age 18 or 19 already.

[OSBF]

All I'm really wanting to know is if its standard procedure at most/all universities to provide legal assistance to student-athletes that run afoul with local law enforcement.

And, as Amster mentions is this a benefit provided to athletes that plain old regular students don't get?

To be honest, I had no idea this was happening, I assumed when a basketball/football player got him/her self arrested they were on their own for procuring defense

Is this a departmental thing or is there a "friend of the program" footing the bill, does the firm do this pro-bono or in exchange for advertising signage in university facilities?

[clenz]

I don't know the rule but something seems really strange about having a special lawyer for athletes used to beat charges.

Sounds like it *could* by a systematic thing with the NPD to get athletes off the hook at a higher rate

[BEAR]

The only question you need to ask is, "Do these activities make the NCAA money?"

If yes, they are legal.

If no, then they are illegal, depending on if you are a large school or not.

Anything more than that and your parents could end up with a comfy job in your college town.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All I'm really wanting to know is if its standard procedure at most/all universities to provide legal assistance to student-athletes that run afoul with local law enforcement.

And, as Amster mentions is this a benefit provided to athletes that plain old regular students don't get?

To be honest, I had no idea this was happening, I assumed when a basketball/football player got him/her self arrested they were on their own for procuring defense

Is this a departmental thing or is there a "friend of the program" footing the bill, does the firm do this pro-bono or in exchange for advertising signage in university facilities?

The stuff that happened at Montana might be a good reference point. Players that got in trouble got legal representation through the school. I do not know if that was an NCAA violation or not. At best it is only unseemly.

[OSBF]

So you guys are saying that isn't common practice?

"EVERYBODY" else doesn't do this

This sort of thing doesn't go on "EVERYWHERE" else?

That will be the rationalization/justification/ spin doctoring by our fan base

[OSBF]

I will say that this guy must be pretty good.

He got a suspended sentence with no jail time for a kid charged with 2 felonies for beating up a chick in a bar

I need to get his # in my contact list

You just never know when he might come in handy

[Bisonoline]

All I'm really wanting to know is if its standard procedure at most/all universities to provide legal assistance to student-athletes that run afoul with local law enforcement.

And, as Amster mentions is this a benefit provided to athletes that plain old regular students don't get?

To be honest, I had no idea this was happening, I assumed when a basketball/football player got him/her self arrested they were on their own for procuring defense

Is this a departmental thing or is there a "friend of the program" footing the bill, does the firm do this pro-bono or in exchange for advertising signage in university facilities?

It would be against NCAA rules to provide an extra benefit that isn't available to regular students.

[Green26]

The stuff that happened at Montana might be a good reference point. Players that got in trouble got legal representation through the school. I do not know if that was an NCAA violation or not. At best it is only unseemly.

While there was publicity indicating that some players had gotten their lawyer through the school, that wasn't the case. The players hired the mom of one of their friends. She worked at the same firm as a prominent booster whom the university had consulted initially. The initial publicity, from the very biased local paper, was incorrect. However, the initial incorrect publicity and impression may have led to the ncaa investigation. That lawyer, a very good female lawyer, evaluated a possible so-called section 1983 civil rights contingency fee case against the city while she helped the players on the 3 misdemeanor criminal charges from the incident following a party at one of the player's apartment. The incident involved tasing the two players, as well as semi-racial slurs being yelled at them by the cops. Scores of witnesses had observed and recorded much of the incident, and supported the views of the players as to what had occurred. The players later pled nolo to 1 count of disorderly conduct (essentially a loud party). The firm apparently didn't charge the players for any legal work, saying that the work had been done in connection with analyzing the possible contingency fee case (a fairly common practice in MT) and that the firm frequently provided pro bono work of this sort to college students generally. The ncaa concluded that the players had received $1500 of free legal services. This, combined with another player's mom having fronted a couple hundred dollars that night to bail out the players--and the university's knowledge of some aspects of these 2 things--were the two main/major violations found by the ncaa. The mom had bailed out the players after receiving a call and request that night from the grandpa of one of the players who was from CA. The grandpa repaid the couple hundred dollars to the mom the next week. The ncaa determined the "loan" had not been repaid soon enough. 3 years of probation, the loss of 4 scholarships per year, and the vacating of about a half dozen wins--for these 2 "major" violations. Your ncaa at its finest.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

While there was publicity indicating that some players had gotten their lawyer through the school, that wasn't the case. The players hired the mom of one of their friends. She worked at the same firm as a prominent booster whom the university had consulted initially. The initial publicity, from the very biased local paper, was incorrect. However, the initial incorrect publicity and impression may have led to the ncaa investigation. That lawyer, a very good female lawyer, evaluated a possible so-called section 1983 civil rights contingency fee case against the city while she helped the players on the 3 misdemeanor criminal charges from the incident following a party at one of the player's apartment. The incident involved tasing the two players, as well as semi-racial slurs being yelled at them by the cops. Scores of witnesses had observed and recorded much of the incident, and supported the views of the players as to what had occurred. The players later pled nolo to 1 count of disorderly conduct (essentially a loud party). The firm apparently didn't charge the players for any legal work, saying that the work had been done in connection with analyzing the possible contingency fee case (a fairly common practice in MT) and that the firm frequently provided pro bono work of this sort to college students generally. The ncaa concluded that the players had received $1500 of free legal services. This, combined with another player's mom having fronted a couple hundred dollars that night to bail out the players--and the university's knowledge of some aspects of these 2 things--were the two main/major violations found by the ncaa. The mom had bailed out the players after receiving a call and request that night from the grandpa of one of the players who was from CA. The grandpa repaid the couple hundred dollars to the mom the next week. The ncaa determined the "loan" had not been repaid soon enough. 3 years of probation, the loss of 4 scholarships per year, and the vacating of about a half dozen wins--for these 2 "major" violations. Your ncaa at its finest.

Thanks for clearing this up with that level of detail. It seems to me that it would have been an NCAA violation, but it was later adjudged by the NCAA that it was not. The local paper in question did very much allege the players got their legal counsel through the school, hence the "unseemliness". "Unseemliness" is not enough for it to be an NCAA violation, however.

[Green26]

Thanks for clearing this up with that level of detail. It seems to me that it would have been an NCAA violation, but it was later adjudged by the NCAA that it was not. The local paper in question did very much allege the players got their legal counsel through the school, hence the "unseemliness". "Unseemliness" is not enough for it to be an NCAA violation, however.

The facts were that the two players and various university people met at the law office of a local attorney the day following the incident. That lawyer wasn't representing the players at the meeting, and wasn't hired by them to represent him thereafter. Again, the players hired the mom of a friend, and the mom was a lawyer in that firm. The initial meeting and the hiring of the mom were not connected to each other. Later, the university general counsel opined that, generally, it is not a violation of anything, including ncaa rules, for the university to refer faculty and students, including athletes, to legal counsel--which UM generally had done in the past from time to time. However, it would probably be best to avoid referrals for athletes so that the referral doesn't give the impression to the counsel that the university would like the work done pro bono. Not sure I understand the connection there.