Which mid-major is most likely to make a deep tournament run?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Poll upcoming.

[melloware13]

If Butler is a mid-major, then Villanova and Georgetown are as well.

[Grizalltheway]

On paper the Zags should be able to, but they've busted my bracket too many times for me to put any faith in them.

[clenz]

If Butler is a mid-major, then Villanova and Georgetown are as well.
Mid-major/major are tricky terms

Gonzaga is a mid-major conference, but they aren't a true mid-major. Same for BYU, Butler, VCU, Wichita State, UNI (boaderline), Dayton, etc...

There are teams in "major" conferences that are mid-majors: Northwestern, Rutgers, most of the PAC12 and SEC.

Georgetown is one of the schools that's true enigma. They have great history, good resourches and pretty good teams but just don't strike me as a major program. I've gotten into this with older ECB fans before, but Georgetown doesn't have the pull that it used too. Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, Wichita State, etc... are all more "respected" than Georgetown outside of the NE US.

Nova is a "major" school, IMO. I think they are the only "true" major in the new Big East. The Big East is a lot of high-mid majors that are trying to force their way to a high major. Creighton, Marquette, St. John's, Providence, DePaul, Seton Hall are all mid-major/high-mid-major programs.

[Daytripper]

Mid-major/major are tricky terms

Gonzaga is a mid-major conference, but they aren't a true mid-major. Same for BYU, Butler, VCU, Wichita State, UNI (boaderline), Dayton, etc...

There are teams in "major" conferences that are mid-majors: Northwestern, Rutgers, most of the PAC12 and SEC.

Georgetown is one of the schools that's true enigma. They have great history, good resourches and pretty good teams but just don't strike me as a major program. I've gotten into this with older ECB fans before, but Georgetown doesn't have the pull that it used too. Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, Wichita State, etc... are all more "respected" than Georgetown outside of the NE US.

Nova is a "major" school, IMO. I think they are the only "true" major in the new Big East. The Big East is a lot of high-mid majors that are trying to force their way to a high major. Creighton, Marquette, St. John's, Providence, DePaul, Seton Hall are all mid-major/high-mid-major programs.


You simply can't use conference affiliation to determine mid-majors in basketball. It is so very different than football. Georgetown, Gonzaga and Nova are majors. They have the basketball resources and tradition of major conferences. Major v. mid-major in basketball seems to have much more to do with traditional success than conference affiliation. So, that being said.... I will answer the question with 1) UNI, or 2) SFA.

[FargoBison]

Gonzaga has the same basketball budget as Alabama, over $6 million. There is nothing mid-major about them really.

[clenz]

Gonzaga has the same basketball budget as Alabama, over $6 million. There is nothing mid-major about them really.
Funny thing - I consider Alabama to be a mid-major/high-mid program.

[FargoBison]

Funny thing - I consider Alabama to be a mid-major/high-mid program.

Well they certainly aren't getting what they are paying for.

High-major budget and mid-major results.

[clenz]

Well they certainly aren't getting what they are paying for.

High-major budget and mid-major results.I don't care how much money they spend...they are a mid major.

Bradley and Drake spend a lot on basketball too (relative to other mid-majors) but the last 6-8 years (longer for Drake) they've been a low-major quality program.

Just as the Summit is a low major conference. NDSU and SDSU are proving to be mid-major programs.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

These are all just made up designations anyway. You can certainly feel like a high major but when the rubber meets the road, there are only about a dozen schools that win the whole thing anyway.

Of the conferences that win the whole thing, it is all high major Pac 12, ACC, SEC, B1G, Big 12, AAC, and the current Big East

If you are not Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA, Connecticut, UNC, Florida, Michigan State or Maryland, ALL high major teams, your best bet is a Sweet 16 or a Final Four. The door quickly slams shut on you then.

Since 1995, those are the only teams that have won.

Who cares what they call you when you can't win a championship? Is it any different than football at that point?

[FargoBison]

College football and basketball could not be more different.

In basketball the little guy is celebrated and embraced, as a result you have a tournament that is very fair when you consider the landscape of DI athletics. A program like Butler can come within a shot of winning a title. Wichita State, VCU or George Mason can go to the Final Four. Florida Gulf Coast can even go on a run.

Football is anything but fair and the entire system is completely slanted to the power schools, the little guy doesn't even have a chance to earn an invite and they don't even get a seat at the table in deciding how the invites are given out. They are just thrown a few scraps, which they happily gobble up.

College football has a great regular season and a flawed playoff. College basketball has a regular season that isn't as meaningful but it has the best playoff in American sports.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

College football and basketball could not be more different.

In basketball the little guy is celebrated and embraced, as a result you have a tournament that is very fair when you consider the landscape of DI athletics. A program like Butler can come within a shot of winning a title. Wichita State, VCU or George Mason can go to the Final Four. Florida Gulf Coast can even go on a run.

Football is anything but fair and the entire system is completely slanted to the power schools, the little guy doesn't even have a chance to earn an invite and they don't even get a seat at the table in deciding how the invites are given out. They are just thrown a few scraps, which they happily gobble up.

College football has a great regular season and a flawed playoff. College basketball has a regular season that isn't as meaningful but it has the best playoff in American sports.

It's like they say about poker. Why do you think the same guys are always at the final table?

There might be a Cinderella busting through once or twice but as I said, they always seem to have the door slammed in their face at the very end. We pretty much all know it will be Kentucky or Duke at the very end.

[clenz]

It's like they say about poker. Why do you think the same guys are always at the final table?

There might be a Cinderella busting through once or twice but as I said, they always seem to have the door slammed in their face at the very end. We pretty much all know it will be Kentucky or Duke at the very end.
Can definitely tell you are a fan of a program that has a pinnacle aspirations of round of 32

Get better and you'll start to understand how much the S16, Elite 8 really mean

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Can definitely tell you are a fan of a program that has a pinnacle aspirations of round of 32

Get better and you'll start to understand how much the S16, Elite 8 really mean

Please, I'm 2 months removed from my 4th championship game in a row. I live in a community where there is an actual championship aspiration.

Isn't the point to be the best, not the 10th or 20th best?

[TheRevSFA]

To answer this: UNI to final 4 and SFA to sweet 16

[frozennorth]

Please, I'm 2 months removed from my 4th championship game in a row. I live in a community where there is an actual championship aspiration.

Isn't the point to be the best, not the 10th or 20th best?oh clenz

You won't be able to hire away NDSU coaches forever.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

oh clenz

You won't be able to hire away NDSU coaches forever.

as long as the priority is basketball and not football, they might.

Jacobson's making something in the 450k range. Saul Phillips was making 175k before he left, I doubt if Richman's making that much.

Klieman's in the 250-300 range when he hits all his incentives. It will take a lot to offer what UNI is offering a BB coach.

[FargoBison]

as long as the priority is basketball and not football, they might.

Jacobson's making something in the 450k range. Saul Phillips was making 175k before he left, I doubt if Richman's making that much.

Klieman's in the 250-300 range when he hits all his incentives. It will take a lot to offer what UNI is offering a BB coach.

Richman makes $190k, not sure about his incentives or extras but I'd guess it pushes him over $200k. Not bad for a first year HC though, Saul started at a much lower base.

Klieman made $370k this past season, of course that is with hitting every incentive.

[clenz]

as long as the priority is basketball and not football, they might.

Jacobson's making something in the 450k range. Saul Phillips was making 175k before he left, I doubt if Richman's making that much.

Klieman's in the 250-300 range when he hits all his incentives. It will take a lot to offer what UNI is offering a BB coach.
Jacobson is at/just over 600k this year with a 25k raise every year. Assistants in the 100-150K range

Rumor has him getting a raise to over a million after this season.

Our volleyball coach makes $160k
Womens BB coach $140k
Wrestling $120k


Farley was based at 343k before any extras kicked in

[NoDak 4 Ever]

My numbers were low but it illustrates the point. You spend the money where you want the success.

NDSU pays its assistants well. That is the difference in the football programs.

[FargoBison]

Honestly if NDSU stays at the FCS in FB and Richman keeps having success in basketball, it wouldn't' surprise me at all if the difference in MBB and FB coaching salaries start to tighten.

NDSU has a lot of room to grow in MBB. The new arena will create some new revenue streams for the program to tap into, of course Richman will need to keep on building one what he has done in year 1.

[clenz]

As for the stealing coaches thing...

McDermott is a UNI alum. He was at NDSU 1 season... After 5 seasons at UND (where he met current UNI HC Ben Jacobson). If anything NDSU stole a UND coach....

It's also NDSU and SDSU that are loading their staffs and AD with former UNI employees

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[FargoBison]

Easy Clenz.....We hired Greg from Wayne State not UND.

He was only an assistant at UND, he was there then when Ben played for UND. He did talk Ben into leaving UND's staff to join him at NDSU.

If it makes you feel better our current HC was a grad asst at UNI for a few months under Greg.

[Ex Pat]

Can definitely tell you are a fan of a program that has a pinnacle aspirations of round of 32

Get better and you'll start to understand how much the S16, Elite 8 really mean

For the record I'm rooting for UNI, Jake's from my home town and I like seeing mid-majors do well. But let's just slow down for a second- the Panthers have been to the Sweet 16 ONCE and this is the first trip to the dance since 2010? If Taylor Braun finds a way to shoot against San Diego State last year UNI and NDSU would have achieved the same 'pinnacle' the same amount of times up to this point. Just some perspective. UNI has had a GREAT year and it will likely make a run, I realize that. Just sayin, not exactly Duke. Or even Butler. Yet.

[clenz]

For the record I'm rooting for UNI, Jake's from my home town and I like seeing mid-majors do well. But let's just slow down for a second- the Panthers have been to the Sweet 16 ONCE and this is the first trip to the dance since 2010? If Taylor Braun finds a way to shoot against San Diego State last year UNI and NDSU would have achieved the same 'pinnacle' the same amount of times up to this point. Just some perspective. UNI has had a GREAT year and it will likely make a run, I realize that. Just sayin, not exactly Duke. Or even Butler. Yet.
The expectations of the programs are completely different.

UNI has 7 apppeances since the 04/05 season. No game has been lost by more than 7 points.

The seasons since 2010 have been the prime example of how losing 1 recruit and having a late replacement flame out will kill a program for a while.

Long story short - Doug McDermott backed out of his LOI in April his senior year. Way too late for UNI to sign another post - and no other posts were recruited based on Doug coming in. There was 2 attempts to fill that spot that both flamed out. UNI finally has recovered from that and we are seeing the results.

Hell, even 2011 UNI was receiving top 25 votes and 1 game back in the MVC race going into mid-Feb when the only experienced post player left on the roster broke his ankle.

[Laker]

Butler just knocked off Texas. The Big 12 is now 0-3 today.

[IBleedYellow]

Gonzaga isn't Mid Major.

UNI is, and they will go the deepest.


UNI is a basketball school that plays good football.

NDSU is a football school that plays good basketball. The two schools couldn't be more different in that aspect.

[ysubigred]

Gonzaga isn't Mid Major.

UNI is, and they will go the deepest.


UNI is a basketball school that plays good football.

NDSU is a football school that plays good basketball. The two schools couldn't be more different in that aspect.\

xrolleyesx And choke on the big stage like said football team xbawlingx UNI = BRACKET KILLERS xdrunkyx

[clenz]

\

xrolleyesx And choke on the big stage like said football team xbawlingx UNI = BRACKET KILLERS xdrunkyx
We can't all by YSU football..cheat to win and then stop cheating and become a door mat.

[ysubigred]

We can't all by YSU football..cheat to win and then stop cheating and become a door mat.

I'd Rather be known as a cheat and a door mat instead of the "ultimate choke" artist known as the "UNI Panthers" :D

[clenz]

I'd Rather be known as a cheat and a door mat instead of the "ultimate choke" artist known as the "UNI Panthers" :D
"I'd rather be ****ty than pretty damn good"


If that doesn't describe Youngstown, OH, and everything associated with it, in every way imaginable then nothing will.

[ysubigred]

"I'd rather be ****ty than pretty damn good"


If that doesn't describe Youngstown, OH, and everything associated with it, in every way imaginable then nothing will.

Why can't we just get along xcoolx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://i.imgur.com/ess6W8Q.jpg

[Twentysix]

http://i.imgur.com/ess6W8Q.jpg

xthumbsupx

How many times has UNI made the sweet 16? elite 8? Have they gone further?

I was kinda disappointed when they lost, I expected a little more from a top 10 program. :\ UNI kinda seemed like a juggernaught in mid major clothing judging by the posts on the basketball board (I hadn't watched them until the Louisville game, seemed like they shot too many 3 pointers).

[NoDak 4 Ever]

xthumbsupx

How many times has UNI made the sweet 16? elite 8? Have they gone further?

I was kinda disappointed when they lost, I expected a little more from a top 10 program. :\ UNI kinda seemed like a juggernaught in mid major clothing judging by the posts on the basketball board (I hadn't watched them until the Louisville game, seemed like they shot too many 3 pointers).

Hm. That's a knowable question!

Lets see, in the modern Division 1 era, they have 7 tournament appearances in about 35 years. The first in 1990 then not again until 2004. 2 2nd round appearances and one Sweet 16 appearance.

They have never gone past the Sweet 16 and this year was the first year they have been a top half seed.

[ysubigred]

xthumbsupx

How many times has UNI made the sweet 16? elite 8? Have they gone further?

I was kinda disappointed when they lost, I expected a little more from a top 10 program. :\ UNI kinda seemed like a juggernaught in mid major clothing judging by the posts on the basketball board (I hadn't watched them until the Louisville game, seemed like they shot too many 3 pointers).

Hey!! I was at the UCLA vs UAB game Saturday. I would not count out UCLA they were big, physical and the only team taking advantage of using the glass to their advantage xthumbsupx Plus their cheer squad was smoking hot xnodx

[Twentysix]

Hey!! I was at the UCLA vs UAB game Saturday. I would not count out UCLA they were big, physical and the only team taking advantage of using the glass to their advantage xthumbsupx Plus their cheer squad was smoking hot xnodx

xthumbsupx

[FargoBison]

Gonzaga is the last one standing. Kind of sucks, was hoping to see a WSU-UK rematch.

[Twentysix]

Gonzaga is the last one standing. Kind of sucks, was hoping to see a WSU-UK rematch.

Meh. Go Bruins!