Schiano to Columbia?

[Go Green]

The Columbia blog thinks former Rutgers and Buccaneers coach Greg Schiano is headed to NYC.

http://culions.blogspot.com/2015/01/many-signs-point-to-schiano.html

If so, this will be interesting, so say the least.

[LeopardBall10]

I love that an assumed Columbia alum sites nothing other than Schiano being the "biggest name coach still available" as his deductive reasoning. Even if he did show up in NYC (which I don't think there is any way that could possibly happen because of pay, pay for assistants, limited number of assistance, facilities, academic restrictions, and the list goes on) he would one be there until he could get the next job. Not good for the Ivy League that needs consistency at the top.

[Go Green]

he would one be there until he could get the next job. Not good for the Ivy League that needs consistency at the top.

I think if Schiano (or whoever) gets Columbia to .500 by year 3.... and then jumps ship to a higher profile job... that's a tradeoff Columbia can live with.

They're at 21 straight losses and counting.

[CFBfan]

and Bill Cowher is taking over for Frank T @ Lafayette

[kdinva]

and Bill Cowher is taking over for Frank T @ Lafayette

And John Gruden @ E. Washington......

[Franks Tanks]

The Jake guy needs to get back on his medication.

[Pard4Life]

My philosophy is: Urban Meyer and Nick Saban think they are the gods of the college football world.

Do you want to test how good of a coach you really are? Go coach Columbia...

I give Harbaugh the respect he deserves based on what he did at San Diego... transforming a middling, nowhere program into a competitive and entertaining team... without schollies.

[heath]

Columbia should look at Troxell from F&M. A LC player/grad and masters from Columbia. Has done very well at F&M and a quality guy.

[Franks Tanks]

Columbia should look at Troxell from F&M. A LC player/grad and masters from Columbia. Has done very well at F&M and a quality guy.

Trox is too smart to go to Columbia, plus he is going to come back home if Frank ever retires!

[ngineer]

and Bill Cowher is taking over for Frank T @ Lafayette

Congratulations!!

[ngineer]

Trox is too smart to go to Columbia, plus he is going to come back home if Frank ever retires!

That's what I see coming in about 3 years. Frank is my age, I think, (63), so he can start taking full SS, and possibly still do some "football emeritus" stuff for the 'pards like Dunlap did at Colgate.

[LeopardBall10]

Frank is my age, I think, (63), so he can start taking full SS, and possibly still do some "football emeritus" stuff for the 'pards like Dunlap did at Colgate.

That's funny, Frank doing anything that doesn't immediately benefit himself?! Not going to happen. As soon as he retires he will hole up in his house, making excuses as to why he can't be seen outside of it. He hasn't done anything solely for the benefit of the program in maybe a decade and I don't see him starting now.

[Franks Tanks]

That's what I see coming in about 3 years. Frank is my age, I think, (63), so he can start taking full SS, and possibly still do some "football emeritus" stuff for the 'pards like Dunlap did at Colgate.

I would be happy to have John Troxell return to the hill. I would really love Bob Heffner to return as head coach, but that ship has probably sailed as Bob is only a few years younger than Frank, and Heffner makes good money and is in a very stable situation at Northwestern.

[Pards Rule]

I would be happy to have John Troxell return to the hill. I would really love Bob Heffner to return as head coach, but that ship has probably sailed as Bob is only a few years younger than Frank, and Heffner makes good money and is in a very stable situation at Northwestern.


I know I'm a big Heffner fan too and would love to see him HC on the Hill. I think he has very good affection for LC. What do you think he makes at NW for his post vs. what the HC at Lafayette makes now?

[Franks Tanks]

I know I'm a big Heffner fan too and would love to see him HC on the Hill. I think he has very good affection for LC. What do you think he makes at NW for his post vs. what the HC at Lafayette makes now?

It would be my guess, and again just a complete guess, but the HC at LC and the TE coach at Northwestern probably make a similar salary. I suppose it would come down to what Heffner wants. Is he satisfied finishing his career as a lower level assistance (albeit a very good job), or does he want his shot at running the show?

LC would be foolish to pass on Heffner if he wasn't to come back, even if it was for a relatively short time period.

[DFW HOYA]

It would be my guess, and again just a complete guess, but the HC at LC and the TE coach at Northwestern probably make a similar salary.

Big Ten asst. salaries discussed:

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/91590/a-look-at-the-b1g-assistant-salaries

[ngineer]

Big Ten asst. salaries discussed:

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/91590/a-look-at-the-b1g-assistant-salaries

Interesting they don't list NW. But based upon the list, it would appear Heffner gets about $125-150K...about what the Tavani gets. So above comment correct. Does one want to move, again? Take on many more headaches as an HC but with same pay? Possible move up within the FBS schools to possible OC? Lot of variables. Hey, if LU goes 3-8 again and lays an egg in #151 like they did for #150, that position will be open.

[Bill]

Guys
going to play contrarian here...I think you are really underestimating the amount that Northwestern pays their assistants. My best guess is Heff makes more like 200-220K...

[Bill]

And after checking out the EADA site, I feel even more confident: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetails.aspx?756e697469643d3134373736372679656 1723d323031332673656172636843726974657269613d33313 36434653666373237343638373736353733373436353732366 53236333833643237333133303337323732363732363437343 36433313266333233313266333233303331333532303331333 2336133313332336133303333323034313464267264743d312 f32312f323031352031323a31323a303320414d

Northwestern's 21 full time assistant male coaches , for all sports, average 155K each! Sticking with my 200+ guess...

[ngineer]

Guys
going to play contrarian here...I think you are really underestimating the amount that Northwestern pays their assistants. My best guess is Heff makes more like 200-220K...

Hope you're right. More incentive for him to stay at NW!

[Franks Tanks]

Hope you're right. More incentive for him to stay at NW!

I don't know what Frank makes, but he is not one of the 10 highest paid Lafayette employees per the school's publically available information, and the lowest person on the list is somewhere in the 220's I believe. Fran O'Hanlon makes something like 250K per year, and I wouldn't be surprised if Frank makes near 200k. Frank is of course no threat to go anywhere else so we don't really need to pay him more. I think we would at least match Bob's Northwestern salary if needed. Anyway probably won't happen as Heff has a great thing going at Northwestern, but it would be nice!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If Heff or Schiano are headed to Lafayette of Columbia respectively, it's not going to be because of a pay raise, it will be for other reasons.

Schiano is not a completely outlandish candidate for the Columbia job, but it seems awfully unlikely that a guy who was genuinely in consideration for Michigan is so dead-set on coaching that he would take over the mess at Columbia. There's also not a lot of hard evidence placing Schiano at Columbia, just "unnamed sources".

If Schiano was looking for a job for life, why wouldn't he just go to Bucknell, his alma mater, where he's friends with Joe Susan? Susan is not a young man (58 or 59) and Schiano's son has already verballed to Bucknell. Basically, Schiano has a lot of options, so why Columbia?

[Pards Rule]

Yeah LFN, is his severance/contract payout done now? Might be now motivated to earn some income if so!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here's something else to consider in all of this talk about head coaching at the FBS ranks.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/biggest-winners-and-losers-from-the-college-football-coaching-carousel-065221084-ncaaf.html

There literally has only been one outside-the-FBS-ranks hire at head coach/coordinators this offseason. Granted, it's quite outside the box, but it doesn't even involve FCS (Wisconsin-Whitewater's Lance Leipold to Buffalo). Following this, I see a pretty incestuous relationship between P5 coordinators and head coaching positions.

With the churn at P5 schools largely staying within the family, and assistants being paid big $$$, there's not a lot of incentive for someone to, say, leave a gig at Iowa to be head coach at Columbia.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So what's the latest jaw-dropping scenario involving Columbia? This would be an even bigger upset than Schiano heading there:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/penn/20150219_Source__Ex-Penn_coach_Bagnoli_in_talks_with_Columbia.html

[Go Green]

So what's the latest jaw-dropping scenario involving Columbia? This would be an even bigger upset than Schiano heading there:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/penn/20150219_Source__Ex-Penn_coach_Bagnoli_in_talks_with_Columbia.html

Ugh....

I was really hoping that we had seen the last of him. He was something like 25-3 against Dartmouth.

Terrific for Columbia if it happens. ****ty for Dartmouth (and Penn, for that matter).

[Go...gate]

He certainly knows how to win. Can he recruit as well at Columbia? That is the key question. If so, Columbia would be greatly improved....

[tribe_pride]

This open position seems like it is taking forever to fill. It's been 2 1/2 months. Is it that bad of a job?

[Bill]

This open position seems like it is taking forever to fill. It's been 2 1/2 months. Is it that bad of a job?

Yes.:)

[Ivytalk]

I don't see Bags coming out of coaching retirement to take that job.

[Go Green]

I don't see Bags coming out of coaching retirement to take that job.

Jake says on his blog that the deal is sealed.

http://culions.blogspot.com/

[Ivytalk]

Jake says on his blog that the deal is sealed.

http://culions.blogspot.com/

I wonder how many simoleons it will take to seal the deal.

[LeopardBall10]

I wonder how many simoleons it will take to seal the deal.

I have heard from a coach or two who have some connections to Bags who think the deal will be right around a million

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't know what's more stunning, that Bags is taking the job, or how many simoleons it took.

[DFW HOYA]

I have heard from a coach or two who have some connections to Bags who think the deal will be right around a million

If Bagnoli is getting anything close to that, Murphy, Surace and Estes need to renegotiate now.

An emerging arms race in the Ancient Eight?

[RichH2]

Perhaps that is the amt on a multiyear contract??

[PAllen]

So, if Bags takes the job at Columbia, will we ever see Lehigh on Columbia's schedule again?

[RichH2]

So, if Bags takes the job at Columbia, will we ever see Lehigh on Columbia's schedule again?
:) Think Joe over his mad at Penn,maybe not with Bags.

[Go Green]

If Bagnoli is getting anything close to that, Murphy, Surace and Estes need to renegotiate now.



Murphy, sure.

But Surace and Estes? If they demanded a big raise, the first thing I'd say if I was their AD would be "Dude, you've lost to Georgetown."

[bulldog10jw]

He certainly knows how to win. Can he recruit as well as Columbia? That is the key question. If so, Columbia would be greatly improved....

And that is the question. Penn was already a winning program under Jerry Berndt when Bagnoli got the job. He did take them to an even higher level, but that is certainly not the same as convincing kids that Columbia is the place to go for Ivy League football. Plus, age could be a factor. Carm Cozza did not recruit as well at 60 as he did at 40. I hope Bagnoli succeeds, but I keep thinking of Bob Blackman at Cornell.

[Go Green]

Penn was already a winning program under Jerry Berndt when Bagnoli got the job..

Bagnoli took over from Gary Steele, not Brendt. Penn was a weak program at the time.

[bulldog10jw]

Bagnoli took over from Gary Steele, not Brendt. Penn was a weak program at the time.

They had a recent tradition of winning. Can't say the same for Columbia.

[bulldog10jw]

Another thing. Penn's admissions office was helpful (and that is an understatement) in admitting, let's say marginally academically qualified football players. Will Columbia's admissions office do the same?

[Go Green]

Another thing. Penn's admissions office was helpful (and that is an understatement) in admitting, let's say marginally academically qualified football players. Will Columbia's admissions office do the same?

Penn insists that by the mid-2000s, their AI level was the middle of the Ivy (and that's about the same time that Penn moved up pretty far in USN&WR rankings).

Columbia insisted in the conference call that their admissions policies and financial aid are competitive (which I interpret to mean middle of the pack). Bagnoli turned down the Columbia job in the early 1990s at least in part because he thought their admissions were too stringent. The guess here is that assurances were made that admissions would give more support to the football team that they have in the past.

[carney2]

Trox is too smart to go to Columbia, plus he is going to come back home if Frank ever retires!

The Lafayette-Lehigh Dream Machine never ceases to amaze. In this case both groups have their football coaching succession completely figured out. It's a done deal. Consider:

LAFAYETTE - John Troxell, Lafayette, Class of '94, is just biding his time in D-3 waiting for 63 year old Frank Tavani to retire. According to some, it's a done deal with the only possible hitch being the return of former top assistant Bob Hefner from Northwestern to end his career in a head coaching position.

LEHIGH - Dave Cecchini, Lehigh, Class of '95, and current head coach at Valparaiso in Indiana, just can't wait to get his dream job as the head Squawker. He would succeed 51 year old Andy Coen who would be ... going exactly where? An FBS job where every school is looking for a coach in his 50s? Fired?

What exactly are the chances that either of these scenarios come to pass? How about betting the Daily Double on both?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I can't speak to the Trox rumor/dream, but my feeling is that Cecchini isn't coming back to Lehigh. I don't think Dave will end his career at Valpo, but I do think he will be an FBS coach in the next five years.

[DFW HOYA]

What exactly are the chances that either of these scenarios come to pass? How about betting the Daily Double on both?

About as likely as Pete Lembo turning down an offer from Indiana to come back to Georgetown.

[Go...gate]

Bagnoli took over from Gary Steele, not Brendt. Penn was a weak program at the time.

I believe it was Berndt, Ed Zubrow, Steele and then Bagnoli.

Berndt resurrected things in the early-mid 1980's and moved on. Penn was competitive but not as strong under Zubrow and Steele. Bagnoli's success rivals that of George Munger.

[carney2]

I can't speak to the Trox rumor/dream, but my feeling is that Cecchini isn't coming back to Lehigh. I don't think Dave will end his career at Valpo, but I do think he will be an FBS coach in the next five years.

My thoughts exactly.

As for Troxell, he's now in something like his ninth year at F&M. If he were a rocket to the big time we'd have begun the countdown long before now.

[Danielr11220]

NEW YORK – Columbia University President Lee C. Bollinger and incoming Director of Intercollegiate Athletics and Physical Education Peter Pilling have named Al Bagnoli, a nine-time Ivy League Football Champion and the all-time winningest head coach in NCAA Football Championship Subdivision history, as Columbia’s Patricia and Shepard Alexander Head Coach of Football.http://www.gocolumbialions.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9600&ATCLID=209903190

[Franks Tanks]

My thoughts exactly.

As for Troxell, he's now in something like his ninth year at F&M. If he were a rocket to the big time we'd have begun the countdown long before now.

Hard to disagree with that, and Trox seems very comfortable at F&M. All I can say is that Lafayette can do a lot worse than John Troxell.

[Franks Tanks]

Back to Bagnoli. They guy can obviously coach, and he knows how to recruit and run an Ivy program. Will Columbia football really give him some "assists" in admissions? They say they will, but the proof hasn't been in the pudding at Columbia in a half century. I think Bags will get them competitive, but I don't see a winning record anytime soon. Norries Wilson was doing a pretty good job. Columbia nearly beat a very good Lafayette team in 2009. If they just kept Wilson and gave him some of the resources they are promising Bags, they would be in a excellent situation right now.

[RichH2]

Back to Bagnoli. They guy can obviously coach, and he knows how to recruit and run an Ivy program. Will Columbia football really give him some "assists" in admissions? They say they will, but the proof hasn't been in the pudding at Columbia in a half century. I think Bags will get them competitive, but I don't see a winning record anytime soon. Norries Wilson was doing a pretty good job. Columbia nearly beat a very good Lafayette team in 2009. If they just kept Wilson and gave him some of the resources they are promising Bags, they would be in a excellent situation right now.
+1

[ngineer]

http://www.gocolumbialions.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9600&ATCLID=209903190

Here, I thought Bagnoli retired and was done coaching. Man, to take on that project at this point...smh.

[ngineer]

Back to Bagnoli. They guy can obviously coach, and he knows how to recruit and run an Ivy program. Will Columbia football really give him some "assists" in admissions? They say they will, but the proof hasn't been in the pudding at Columbia in a half century. I think Bags will get them competitive, but I don't see a winning record anytime soon. Norries Wilson was doing a pretty good job. Columbia nearly beat a very good Lafayette team in 2009. If they just kept Wilson and gave him some of the resources they are promising Bags, they would be in a excellent situation right now.

Bagnoli clearly had some assists from admissions. I know both Lembo and Coen had fumed over the years that our admissions people nixed some recruits who ended up at Penn.

[Go Green]

Bagnoli clearly had some assists from admissions. I know both Lembo and Coen had fumed over the years that our admissions people nixed some recruits who ended up at Penn.

Princeton fumed even more.

http://www.si.com/vault/1993/11/15/129886/penn-and-needles-their-academics-belittled-the-quakers-came-up-big-against-princeton-in-the-ivy-leagues-showcase-game

http://www.si.com/vault/1995/08/28/205855/winning-ways-penn-has-not-lost-a-game-in-two-years-question-is-to-achieve-dominance-has-it-compromised-the-ivy-leagues-academic-ideals

[Lehigh Football Nation]

NEW YORK – Columbia University President Lee C. Bollinger and incoming Director of Intercollegiate Athletics and Physical Education Peter Pilling have named Al Bagnoli, a nine-time Ivy League Football Champion and the all-time winningest head coach in NCAA Football Championship Subdivision history...


xconfusedx


I'd like to know how Bags is the "all-time winningest head coach" with only 234 wins, 148 of which were at the FCS level. That's not true whether you count it by total wins (Eddie Robinson, 409) or winning percentage (Robinson, .703). It's a full 100 wins below Roy Kidd (341) and it's not even above his nemesis, Andy Talley (243). Stripping out non-FCS wins, how could it be behind Talley, who coached six more years at Villanova than Bags? Talley and I think Tubby Raymond, too, easily have more than Bags as FCS coaches.

[Lehigh'98]

xconfusedx


I'd like to know how Bags is the "all-time winningest head coach" with only 234 wins, 148 of which were at the FCS level. That's not true whether you count it by total wins (Eddie Robinson, 409) or winning percentage (Robinson, .703). It's a full 100 wins below Roy Kidd (341) and it's not even above his nemesis, Andy Talley (243). Stripping out non-FCS wins, how could it be behind Talley, who coached six more years at Villanova than Bags? Talley and I think Tubby Raymond, too, easily have more than Bags as FCS coaches.

What year did the name change from 1-aa to FCS? Still can't imagine him owning that title.

[PAllen]

All time winningest Ivy League coach in the FCS Era? After all, the record in the Ivy League is all that matters to these guys anyway, right?

[danefan]

xconfusedx


I'd like to know how Bags is the "all-time winningest head coach" with only 234 wins, 148 of which were at the FCS level. That's not true whether you count it by total wins (Eddie Robinson, 409) or winning percentage (Robinson, .703). It's a full 100 wins below Roy Kidd (341) and it's not even above his nemesis, Andy Talley (243). Stripping out non-FCS wins, how could it be behind Talley, who coached six more years at Villanova than Bags? Talley and I think Tubby Raymond, too, easily have more than Bags as FCS coaches.

So does his mentor - Bob Ford. Retired with 265 total wins (256 at Albany).

[Model Citizen]

http://www.si.com/vault/1995/08/28/205855/winning-ways-penn-has-not-lost-a-game-in-two-years-question-is-to-achieve-dominance-has-it-compromised-the-ivy-leagues-academic-ideals


Go Green,

When was the AI first implemented?

[Go Green]

Go Green,

When was the AI first implemented?

My understanding is that the AI was first introduced as a concept in 1981. Ivy teams were given five years to get into compliance with their respective band.

According to comments made in an article by former Dartmouth coach Joe Yukica (and if anyone cares, I can try to find the article), Dartmouth and Yale went into AI compliance immediately. Unsurprisingly, their programs--both of which were strong in the 1970s--went into a tailspin the early 1980s.

(Given how gawdawful Columbia was in the 1980s, I wouldn't be surprised if they likewise went AI-compliant immediately).

Penn, on the other hand, took the full five years to start admitting athletes under their allotted AI band. Its a big reason why Penn football was so powerful in the early 1980s. A lot of grumbling that you saw in those articles I posted originated from that era. After 1986 when Penn had to limit their admits like everyone else, their program suffered as well.

And then Bagnoli came in. Its a hot topic of debate on Ivy boards how much "help" he got from admissions. Penn's partisans are usually the most adamant that by the 2000s, their AI was middle of the Ivy pack. They tend to be quieter when discussing the 1990s.

EDITED: Here is the Yukica article.

http://articles.philly.com/1986-09-16/sports/26072044_1_yukica-ted-leland-dartmouth-college

Relevant portions start at the paragraph beginning "In my case..."

[Ivytalk]

Bags gave props to Columbia's "passionate alumni base." Say what?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My understanding is that the AI was first introduced as a concept in 1981. Ivy teams were given five years to get into compliance with their respective band.

According to comments made in an article by former Dartmouth coach Joe Yukica (and if anyone cares, I can try to find the article), Dartmouth and Yale went into AI compliance immediately. Unsurprisingly, their programs--both of which were strong in the 1970s--went into a tailspin the early 1980s.

(Given how gawdawful Columbia was in the 1980s, I wouldn't be surprised if they likewise went AI-compliant immediately).

Penn, on the other hand, took the full five years to start admitting athletes under their allotted AI band. Its a big reason why Penn football was so powerful in the early 1980s. A lot of grumbling that you saw in those articles I posted originated from that era. After 1986 when Penn had to limit their admits like everyone else, their program suffered as well.

And then Bagnoli came in. Its a hot topic of debate on Ivy boards how much "help" he got from admissions. Penn's partisans are usually the most adamant that by the 2000s, their AI was middle of the Ivy pack. They tend to be quieter when discussing the 1990s.

EDITED: Here is the Yukica article.

http://articles.philly.com/1986-09-16/sports/26072044_1_yukica-ted-leland-dartmouth-college

Relevant portions start at the paragraph beginning "In my case..."

That's a very interesting find. It also coincides with the year that the Ivy League decided to drop as a unit to I-AA rather than having some members pursue I-A football and letting others languish.

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/12/06/sports/ivy-coaches-resent-football-demotion.html


The Ivy League has paid a price for its beliefs and traditions. Restic said, ''That is the tragedy. We were victimized by a war we aren't involved in. It is getting away from everybody. We're not in the world of education anymore. How can you justify that battle for TV money on an educational basis. You can't.

''How can you say how important this is to our young people and what it teaches them in one breath and then sacrifice our educational system for that. That's total hypocrisy. But that's how you get to know people. That's when they become unveiled and you see them as they really are.


''There is no question that young football players have become commercial pawns.'' Seaver Peters, director of athletics at Dartmouth, said, ''Our commitment in the Ivy group may be greater than the commitment of those who are known as big-time football schools. We don't make a profit, yet we are backing more extensive athletic programs as part of our educational philosophy.

Not much seems to have changed since 1981 - except that a former Cornell athletic director, quoted in the article, ended up taking a different path.


''We provide 22 sports for men and 16 for women,'' said Mike Slive, athletic director at Cornell. ''If that isn't major league, I don't know what is.''

Mr. Slive would eventually figure out what "major league" is. He's one of the architects of full cost of attendance, and the commissioner of the SEC.

[Bill]

Bags gave props to Columbia's "passionate alumni base." Say what?

He must be referring to the small group of people passionate enough to ensure he'll take home that massive paycheck!xnodx

[Ivytalk]

He must be referring to the small group of people passionate enough to ensure he'll take home that massive paycheck!xnodx

Bob Kraft and who else?:D

[Bill]

Bob Kraft and who else?:D
Maybe Bags convinced George Weiss to support him at this job too!��

[Go Green]

Bob Kraft and who else?:D

Bill Campbell is widely regarded as the single largest Columbia football financial supporter. He's very involved in the program, but some less well-financed boosters gripe that he's been responsible for some of the bad decisions that got Columbia in its current hole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Campbell_(business_executive)

[heath]

He must be referring to the small group of people passionate enough to ensure he'll take home that massive paycheck!xnodx
No, he is referring to ALL of the inner city kids (illegal aliens)and families they let for free and send over to the away stands to run around the opposing teams loyal fans. xthumbsupx