View Full Version : Question to Division 1 history enthusiasts
Catsfan90
January 15th, 2015, 01:02 PM
As I was sitting here pondering the wonderul world of college football a question popped into my head that I was hoping somebody on this forum amy have the knowledge to asnwer. It is a multiple part question.
When Div 1 split into 1-A and 1-AA how was it decided who ended up where? was it done by conferences? or was it done on an individual team basis?
Where was the line? such as, was the sun belt always the worst conference? or were they at one point on par with say the SEC, ACC etc.....
If the whole idea of the split occured, why are FCS schools allowed to love up? although teamslike App state, And GSU have had success in the sun belt. It seems to me that at this point the Sun Belt is an FBS conference by name. It appears extremely watered down by the teams that the 1-A/ 1-AA split was meant to seperate.
None of this Is horribly important, I am just bored and curious.
ngineer
January 15th, 2015, 02:20 PM
As I was sitting here pondering the wonderul world of college football a question popped into my head that I was hoping somebody on this forum amy have the knowledge to asnwer. It is a multiple part question.
When Div 1 split into 1-A and 1-AA how was it decided who ended up where? was it done by conferences? or was it done on an individual team basis?
Where was the line? such as, was the sun belt always the worst conference? or were they at one point on par with say the SEC, ACC etc.....
If the whole idea of the split occured, why are FCS schools allowed to love up? although teamslike App state, And GSU have had success in the sun belt. It seems to me that at this point the Sun Belt is an FBS conference by name. It appears extremely watered down by the teams that the 1-A/ 1-AA split was meant to seperate.
None of this Is horribly important, I am just bored and curious.
My recall is that Division I was created when Divisions II and III were created. Lehigh and it's bretheran were part of the unofficial "middle" sized schools before then. There was no "D-I", just schools who were considered 'major'. Since there were no playoffs and very few bowls it really didn't matter. There were few conferences. Then, with the creation of D-I, D-II, and D-III in the early 1970's playoffs began for the II's and III's. Lehigh, Lafayette, et al, chose to go D-II, but there was no league. These schools were always independent, though they had an unofficial relationship with many of their size and academic profile, i.e. Lafayette, Bucknell. Gettysburg had been a regular opponent for Lehigh, but chose to go D-III, as did Muhlenberg College. Delaware, a long rival with Lehigh went D-II, but Rutgers, another regular opponent, chose to go D-I, as did Temple. There were a lot of loose alliances among schools back then.
In 1978, the NCAA created Division I-AA. Lehigh chose to move up to I-AA the following year and actually made the Championship final. Delaware remained D-II for a few more years. I don't recall if the change to I-AA occurred due to the, then, Yankee Conference making the switch or individual schools. The Patriot League originally began as the Colonial Conference in 1986 and included William & Mary and Davidson. Both schools dropped out after one year. W&M because of the alumni revolting against the 'non-scholarship' aspect of the league, and Davidson, because it was apparent they could not be competitive. The Conference policy, initially, did not allow the member schools to participate in the playoffs. The intent was to be a kind of 'shadow' Ivy League. By 1993, attitudes changed and the conference, now called the Patriot League, joined the playoffs.
So for some, it may have been a league decision as to which Division to join. Now with playoffs and most everyone in a league/conference, it is likely a league policy that to be a member of the league you have to be within the same Division. If a school wants to step up to D-I, they have to leave the league, like App State, GSU and Marshall did. They joined a new league, but could have gone independent. Regardless of division, I think any school can choose to be independent, but being in a league takes away a lot of scheduling and travel headaches, and likely reduces expenses.
So much for a thumbnail, but it was a nice lunch break from work!
bkrownd
January 15th, 2015, 04:27 PM
Where was the line? such as, was the sun belt always the worst conference? or were they at one point on par with say the SEC, ACC etc.....
Sun Belt has only had football since 2001
OL FU
January 15th, 2015, 04:45 PM
As far as the move up from DII to DI-AA, not sure. But generally, very generally, the decision going the other way was based on scholarship numbers and number of scholarship sports offered at the school. So the SoCon moved in 1982. or was told to move whichever the case maybe. I can't remember if the stadium attendance was a factor or that came later. But my recollection on the schools that were already considered Division I (like the SoCon), the conference moved together.
MR. CHICKEN
January 15th, 2015, 04:52 PM
My recall is that Division I was created when Divisions II and III were created. Lehigh and it's bretheran were part of the unofficial "middle" sized schools before then. There was no "D-I", just schools who were considered 'major'. Since there were no playoffs and very few bowls it really didn't matter. There were few conferences. Then, with the creation of D-I, D-II, and D-III in the early 1970's playoffs began for the II's and III's. Lehigh, Lafayette, et al, chose to go D-II, but there was no league. These schools were always independent, though they had an unofficial relationship with many of their size and academic profile, i.e. Lafayette, Bucknell. Gettysburg had been a regular opponent for Lehigh, but chose to go D-III, as did Muhlenberg College. Delaware, a long rival with Lehigh went D-II, but Rutgers, another regular opponent, chose to go D-I, as did Temple. There were a lot of loose alliances among schools back then.
In 1978, the NCAA created Division I-AA. Lehigh chose to move up to I-AA the following year and actually made the Championship final. Delaware remained D-II for a few more years. I don't recall if the change to I-AA occurred due to the, then, Yankee Conference making the switch or individual schools. The Patriot League originally began as the Colonial Conference in 1986 and included William & Mary and Davidson. Both schools dropped out after one year. W&M because of the alumni revolting against the 'non-scholarship' aspect of the league, and Davidson, because it was apparent they could not be competitive. The Conference policy, initially, did not allow the member schools to participate in the playoffs. The intent was to be a kind of 'shadow' Ivy League. By 1993, attitudes changed and the conference, now called the Patriot League, joined the playoffs.
So for some, it may have been a league decision as to which Division to join. Now with playoffs and most everyone in a league/conference, it is likely a league policy that to be a member of the league you have to be within the same Division. If a school wants to step up to D-I, they have to leave the league, like App State, GSU and Marshall did. They joined a new league, but could have gone independent. Regardless of division, I think any school can choose to be independent, but being in a league takes away a lot of scheduling and travel headaches, and likely reduces expenses.
So much for a thumbnail, but it was a nice lunch break from work!
20506........DELAWARE LOST.....TA EASTERN KENTUCKY 17-14...IN DUH 1982 I-AA FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP......DON'T KNOW IFIN' HENS....WERE I-AA ANY SOONER...DAN '82...........BRAWK!
Laker
January 15th, 2015, 05:41 PM
If you can read this article, you can probably play in a Chinese symphony. Kind of interesting.
http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/11/30/football-conferences/
ngineer
January 15th, 2015, 11:15 PM
20506........DELAWARE LOST.....TA EASTERN KENTUCKY 17-14...IN DUH 1982 I-AA FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP......DON'T KNOW IFIN' HENS....WERE I-AA ANY SOONER...DAN '82...........BRAWK!
Not sure when UD went from D-II to I-AA. My sense it was in the 1979-81 era. They were piling up the NCAA titles in D-II in the '70's.
Bisonoline
January 15th, 2015, 11:28 PM
My recall is that Division I was created when Divisions II and III were created. Lehigh and it's bretheran were part of the unofficial "middle" sized schools before then. There was no "D-I", just schools who were considered 'major'. Since there were no playoffs and very few bowls it really didn't matter. There were few conferences. Then, with the creation of D-I, D-II, and D-III in the early 1970's playoffs began for the II's and III's. Lehigh, Lafayette, et al, chose to go D-II, but there was no league. These schools were always independent, though they had an unofficial relationship with many of their size and academic profile, i.e. Lafayette, Bucknell. Gettysburg had been a regular opponent for Lehigh, but chose to go D-III, as did Muhlenberg College. Delaware, a long rival with Lehigh went D-II, but Rutgers, another regular opponent, chose to go D-I, as did Temple. There were a lot of loose alliances among schools back then.
In 1978, the NCAA created Division I-AA. Lehigh chose to move up to I-AA the following year and actually made the Championship final. Delaware remained D-II for a few more years. I don't recall if the change to I-AA occurred due to the, then, Yankee Conference making the switch or individual schools. The Patriot League originally began as the Colonial Conference in 1986 and included William & Mary and Davidson. Both schools dropped out after one year. W&M because of the alumni revolting against the 'non-scholarship' aspect of the league, and Davidson, because it was apparent they could not be competitive. The Conference policy, initially, did not allow the member schools to participate in the playoffs. The intent was to be a kind of 'shadow' Ivy League. By 1993, attitudes changed and the conference, now called the Patriot League, joined the playoffs.
So for some, it may have been a league decision as to which Division to join. Now with playoffs and most everyone in a league/conference, it is likely a league policy that to be a member of the league you have to be within the same Division. If a school wants to step up to D-I, they have to leave the league, like App State, GSU and Marshall did. They joined a new league, but could have gone independent. Regardless of division, I think any school can choose to be independent, but being in a league takes away a lot of scheduling and travel headaches, and likely reduces expenses.
So much for a thumbnail, but it was a nice lunch break from work!
Division II was created in 1973. Before that it was called University Division and College Division. Or more commonly---Big schools and Little schools.
FormerPokeCenter
January 16th, 2015, 09:26 AM
The initial bifurcation of Division I occurred in the 70's...In 1982, the NCAA imposed tougher restrictions on who could stay I-A. You had to average more than 15,000 in attendance or have a stadium that could seat 30K if memory serves me correctly.
McNeese had been I-A prior to that, even going to three of the first five Independence Bowls, when the rest of the Southland Conference, aside from USL (ULL) decided to move down. We wrestled with that decision for a while and determined, at the time, that being a I-A independent wasn't in our best interest, so we followed the rest of the conference.
We were the only school in the SLC who met the attendance requirements. USL got in based on stadium size. La Tech had a good run and moved up in the late 80's, I think, after increasing attendance and seating. ULM won a Natty in 1987, and moved up in the early 90's, after increasing stadium size....Arkansas State moved up shortly thereafter...
I've covered games in Ruston and Monroe for the Louisiana Gannet papers and it was always pretty amusing to compare the reported attendance with the the actual crowd. Apparently, it was in vogue for USL and ULM and Tech fans to come to the games dressed as stadium seats....
I think Troy and Texas State are the only other SLC teams to move up. All of them but Tech are in the Slumbelch.
I find it helpful, when considering the Slumbelch, to view them as the SLC's Delusional division. I'm convinced that the SLC winner, in any year, would run the table in the Sun Belt and the head to head record between the leagues strongly supports that.
Of the three Louisiana teams to move up, only La Tech has a fairly strong resume that suggests the move was a good one, though even Heart of Dallas Bowl champ Tech lost to middle of the SLC pack Northwestern this last year.
Tech, USL, ULM, Arkansas State and Troy were replaced by Northwestern, Sam Houston, Stephen F. Austin, Southwest Texas State (now Texas State) who all moved up from Division II in the mid to late 80's...More recently UCA moved up from Division II
I'm not sure if any other conference has had as much movement between divisions as the SLC has...
If so, I'm pretty sure somebody will correct me! ;)
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