NDSU Out-Draws 22 "FBS" schools

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Assuming, conservatively, NDSU is averaging 18,000 per game in 2014.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24891415/college-football-attendance-home-crowds-drop-to-lowest-in-14-years

South Alabama 17,445
MTSU 17,408
Troy 16,767
Central Michigan 16,306
WKU 16,306
UMass 16,088
Miami (OH) 15,906
UNLV 15,764
Western Michigan 15,625
Bowling Green 15,228
San Jose State 15,068
Eastern Michigan 15,025 (looks suspiciously like corporate buy-out tickets)
Georgia State 15,006
FAU 14,112
Northern Illinois 13,563
Kent State 13,544
UNCC 13,272
New Mexico State 12,269
FIU 11, 966
Ball State 9,389
Akron 9,170

NDSU, even with "hard to plan for" playoff games, likely outdraws almost all of the lower-tier G5 teams, including more than half of the MAC and CUSA.

Many of these teams are even playing in bowls.

[JMU Newbill]

You've also won 3 national championships in a row and still draw less than JMU, who hadn't made the playoffs since 2011.

2014 - 5 game regular season average = 21170
If you include the playoff game = 19815

[344Johnson]

What about Montana?

It's not like NDSU leads the FCS here....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What about Montana?

It's not like NDSU leads the FCS here....

Precisely.

[MTfan4life]

You've also won 3 national championships in a row and still draw less than JMU, who hadn't made the playoffs since 2011.

2014 - 5 game regular season average = 21170
If you include the playoff game = 19815

To be fair, it is impossible for NDSU to outdraw JMU's numbers. If NDSU had a stadium twice the size or at least 150% of the size, they'd probably come close to selling out most of their games. Even though it's a home game, you'll find every single establishment in town that has at least one tv filled to the brim with people watching the game, and that's just in Fargo. However, they have an indoor stadium with around a 19,000 capacity. You can't jam more than capacity in an indoor stadium.

[centennial]

You've also won 3 national championships in a row and still draw less than JMU, who hadn't made the playoffs since 2011.

2014 - 5 game regular season average = 21170
If you include the playoff game = 19815

We can only fill up the stadium. If we had 25k stadium I believe we would fill it.

[kdinva]

I think NDSU would fill up a 33,000 seat venue............so start the Telethon!!

[walliver]

To be fair, it is impossible for NDSU to outdraw JMU's numbers. If NDSU had a stadium twice the size or at least 150% of the size, they'd probably come close to selling out most of their games. Even though it's a home game, you'll find every single establishment in town that has at least one tv filled to the brim with people watching the game, and that's just in Fargo. However, they have an indoor stadium with around a 19,000 capacity. You can't jam more than capacity in an indoor stadium.

US Air could.xsmiley_wix

The FCS vs FBS comparisons are fairly meaningless. NDSU has more in common with the FBS programs listed above than with most FCS programs. On the other hand, NDSU has more in common with run-of-the-mill FCS than it does with the SEC West.

One thing that works in favor of NDSU and Montana is a "right-sized" stadium. A full house encourages fans to purchase and use season tickets and creates positive buzz. Empty seats in a stadium that is too large allows fans to pick and choose which games they attend. Georgia State is never going to have great fan interest as long as they are playing in front of 50,000 empty seats in the Georgia Dome.

[dbackjon]

US Air could.xsmiley_wix

The FCS vs FBS comparisons are fairly meaningless. NDSU has more in common with the FBS programs listed above than with most FCS programs. On the other hand, NDSU has more in common with run-of-the-mill FCS than it does with the SEC West.

One thing that works in favor of NDSU and Montana is a "right-sized" stadium. A full house encourages fans to purchase and use season tickets and creates positive buzz. Empty seats in a stadium that is too large allows fans to pick and choose which games they attend. Georgia State is never going to have great fan interest as long as they are playing in front of 50,000 empty seats in the Georgia Dome.


Helps to win too. :)

[clenz]

Bowling Green and Northern Illinois played for the Mac title and NIU was 11-2 and 57-12 since 2010....

I wonder why they don't draw better...after all, fighting with other/bigger schools doesn't impact attendance...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Bowling Green and Northern Illinois played for the Mac title and NIU was 11-2 and 57-12 since 2010....

I wonder why they don't draw better...after all, fighting with other/bigger schools doesn't impact attendance...

Yeah, I thought that was real interesting too. Both of them are bowl-eligible and playing in bowls.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Two of these teams, South Alabama and Bowling Green, are facing off against each other in the Camellia Bowl.

Winner gets the FCS champs?

Will be interesting to see what the ratings/attendance of that bowl will be.

[kdinva]

I'm sure Kirk Herbstreit would have a comment on this statistic.......he'd say 1-AA prices are too low and/or MAC/Sun Belt prices are too high.......he'd come up with a dozen excuses...


Assuming, conservatively, NDSU is averaging 18,000 per game in 2014.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24891415/college-football-attendance-home-crowds-drop-to-lowest-in-14-years

South Alabama 17,445
MTSU 17,408
Troy 16,767
Central Michigan 16,306
WKU 16,306
UMass 16,088
Miami (OH) 15,906
UNLV 15,764
Western Michigan 15,625
Bowling Green 15,228
San Jose State 15,068
Eastern Michigan 15,025 (looks suspiciously like corporate buy-out tickets)
Georgia State 15,006
FAU 14,112
Northern Illinois 13,563
Kent State 13,544
UNCC 13,272
New Mexico State 12,269
FIU 11, 966
Ball State 9,389
Akron 9,170

NDSU, even with "hard to plan for" playoff games, likely outdraws almost all of the lower-tier G5 teams, including more than half of the MAC and CUSA.

Many of these teams are even playing in bowls.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Two of these teams, South Alabama and Bowling Green, are facing off against each other in the Camellia Bowl.

Winner gets the FCS champs?

Will be interesting to see what the ratings/attendance of that bowl will be.

Might as well. That used to be the bowl to determine the College Division. NDSU beat Montana in 1969 and 1970.

[Mattymc727]

I refuse to believe Eastern Michigan averages 15k, I REFUSE!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'm sure Kirk Herbstreit would have a comment on this statistic.......he'd say 1-AA prices are too low and/or MAC/Sun Belt prices are too high.......he'd come up with a dozen excuses...

I guarantee you that it costs more to get a ticket to a Montana or NDSU game than it does at any of those schools. Montana's avg. ticket price was getting close to $40/game I think this year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I refuse to believe Eastern Michigan averages 15k, I REFUSE!

EMU's attendance went up 271% this season.

Here's a report on that:

http://emutalk.org/2014/10/fake-football-attendance-numbers-again/

http://eagletotem.net/blog/2014/10/26/bad-hare-day-spoils-emu-upset/8569/


Listed attendance for this game was 19,654. Anyone who was at the game knows this number is a complete joke. I’m not sure what type of Enron-esque, shell game is being played here, but it is not helpful. (Perhaps it was a typo, but I’m not sure how. The number was much closer to 5,000). I closely watch attendance numbers to gauge fan support. Without accurate, useable data, how are we to keep track of the growth of the program under Creighton? I’m going to try to do a little investigating this week and see what happened with the attendance numbers. Stay tuned…

I seem to remember Pepsi buys tickets en masse, counting as "paid attendance", then eats the cost/gives the tickets away, or something like that.

[Bisonator]

I refuse to believe Eastern Michigan averages 15k, I REFUSE!

Yeah no way in hell that happens unless they somehow had 100,000 at one game!xlolx

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think some of the MAC numbers are inflated. Doesn't FBS require you to average a certain attendance over a six-year period? Schools like Eastern Michigan surely fall short of this number and must resort to some tactic to cook the books.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I'm sure Kirk Herbstreit would have a comment on this statistic.......he'd say 1-AA prices are too low and/or MAC/Sun Belt prices are too high.......he'd come up with a dozen excuses...

One factor that actually DOES kill MAC attendance is the TV contract with ESPN. This forces schools to play games on Tuesday and Wednesday nights as opposed to Saturday day. This wrecks all chance for alumni to make it to the game. I've seen the stadium shots during these games -- most of the time they have what looks like 6,000 people in attendance. I'm sure they report 10K. Probably student tickets that are "sold" for free but students don't even go into the stadium because its November in the Midwest and they can turn on ESPN2 in their dorm room.

[Skyhawk71]

UTM played at NIU a couple of years ago, the Orange Bowl year, and the fans we tailgated with wanted to talk about the Bears, because we have the same colors......they seriously had no clue that they where really good........If they had not filled up one side with bands for band day- there would not have been very many fans there at all

[IBleedYellow]

...why does this even matter?

NDSU isn't even the largest drawings school in the FCS. Montana, Montana State and JMU off the top of my head are all able to draw better than the Bison.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

...why does this even matter?

NDSU isn't even the largest drawings school in the FCS. Montana, Montana State and JMU off the top of my head are all able to draw better than the Bison.

Which makes the numbers even more striking.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ball State's reaction:

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2014/11/25/ball-state-football-sees-drop-in-attendance/70126136/


The takeaway points can be, by nature, interpreted in several different ways. A pessimist could point out the team saw a 32 percent drop in average attendance. In context, that's a drop of 4,428 fans per game, which is a drop in the bucket in the world of Power Five Conference attendance.

Ball State is operating in a different world. The reality is, the school routinely finishes in the bottom 10 or five of attendance nationally. The 2013 season was the seventh-best in total attendance in school history, and even after getting the bump to above 15,000, the numbers came in sixth-worst among full Division I teams. (To be fair, that also counts other schools pushing toward the 15,000 threshold.)

In 2013 Ball State averaged 13,816 fans per game.

[chattanoogamocs]

I'm sure Kirk Herbstreit would have a comment on this statistic.......he'd say 1-AA prices are too low and/or MAC/Sun Belt prices are too high.......he'd come up with a dozen excuses...

Kirk would just say that they should all be in FCS too...along with all the other schools that that should never get to play a P5 program.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

There's nothing new about FCS attendance leaders outdrawing a good many lower-tier FBS teams. Georgia Southern, App State, and ODU while FCS usually outdraw as many or more FBS teams. Montana and JMU regularly do it, a few SWAC teams might do it as well. This says nothing about the merits of FCS and FBS in terms of attendance.

And you are right that a lot of attendance numbers aren't genuine. FBS teams have an attendance requirement and if you can't make them your school has to buy tickets (at least that's my understanding). I can tell you beyond any shadow of a doubt that Georgia State does not average 15,000 actual butts in seats.

[Pard4Life]

LOL, Ivy and PL teams outdraw the MAC.

Realistically, what is the maximum capacity that the Bison could support given their current run? 35,000 seat stadium asking much?

[NY Crusader 2010]

There's nothing new about FCS attendance leaders outdrawing a good many lower-tier FBS teams. Georgia Southern, App State, and ODU while FCS usually outdraw as many or more FBS teams. Montana and JMU regularly do it, a few SWAC teams might do it as well. This says nothing about the merits of FCS and FBS in terms of attendance.

And you are right that a lot of attendance numbers aren't genuine. FBS teams have an attendance requirement and if you can't make them your school has to buy tickets (at least that's my understanding). I can tell you beyond any shadow of a doubt that Georgia State does not average 15,000 actual butts in seats.

How does the SWAC compare to the Sun Belch in terms of average attendance?

[Sycamore62]

Yeah no way in hell that happens unless they somehow had 100,000 at one game!xlolx

"Welcome to the campus of Eastern Michigan University in Ypsilanti Michigan fas the EMU Eagles take on the Broncos of Western Michigan. We would also like to welcome a special group of people from the Michigan association for multiple personality disorder awareness. Today's crowd is well over capacity with just over 200,000 people/personalities"

[clenz]

Eastern Michigan is greatly...and I mean greatly...hurt by the fact their stadium is about 4 miles as the bird flies from Michigan Stadium...about a 15 minute drive

[DFW HOYA]

Southern Methodist averaged 21,528 per game. Not this week...

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/002/648/691/smu-ucf-game-crowd_crop_north.jpg?w=759&h=506&q=75

[centennial]

LOL, Ivy and PL teams outdraw the MAC.

Realistically, what is the maximum capacity that the Bison could support given their current run? 35,000 seat stadium asking much?
Fargo metro area is about 200k. I think a 30k stadium is probably the upper limit. I doubt we fill a 40k+ stadium.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Fargo metro area is about 200k. I think a 30k stadium is probably the upper limit. I doubt we fill a 40k+ stadium.

I was gonna go with about 28-30K as well. Could you have more than that once in a while..sure. But Walliver said something earlier that I've advocated for a long time with MT and that is the best case scenario is that you can always accommodate one less than demand. If 1,000 less than that is fine as well. I never want to have a 32K stadium with 1 or 2K empty seats on a regular basis. Once that happens on a regular basis you are in trouble as far as attendance goes.

There should always be a competition among fans for seats if it's possible.

[clenz]

I was gonna go with about 28-30K as well. Could you have more than that once in a while..sure. But Walliver said something earlier that I've advocated for a long time with MT and that is the best case scenario is that you can always accommodate one less than demand. If 1,000 less than that is fine as well. I never want to have a 32K stadium with 1 or 2K empty seats on a regular basis. Once that happens on a regular basis you are in trouble as far as attendance goes.

There should always be a competition among fans for seats if it's possible.
What's interesting is the "general rule of thumb" that most schools use when expanding/building is "build so that you fill 80%"

[ursus arctos horribilis]

What's interesting is the "general rule of thumb" that most schools use when expanding/building is "build so that you fill 80%"

Clarify for me clenzy. Are you saying build so that they accommodate 80% of demand or build so the place is 80% full? If not I think most places could do themselves a favor by not building to please all...the short money ain't the thing to chase by watching how Montana has done it over the time I've watched it happen.

[Pard4Life]

Southern Methodist averaged 21,528 per game. Not this week...

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/002/648/691/smu-ucf-game-crowd_crop_north.jpg?w=759&h=506&q=75

Yes but is that snow in DFW? One could see why.

[Pard4Life]

That 80% rule makes sense. Keeps operating costs down while ensuring your revenue covers game day expenses. I doubt the revenue can cover all FB operating expenses unless you are the core P5.

LC is 13,875, which we sellout for Lehigh games plus extra bleachers. When we built upon succes of the 00s and had a good team in 2009, we drew 10k for two games. Neither were homecoming but one was Liberty. All depends on winning

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Yes but is that snow in DFW? One could see why.

This pic is from the UCF game that was played on December 7, 2013.


SMU (5-7, 4-4) saw its record bowl streak end at four seasons in the coldest home game in school history - 24 degrees at kickoff. It matched the 1983 Sun Bowl in El Paso as SMU's coldest game. It was UCF's first game in sub-freezing temperatures.


The wintry blast that virtually shut down the Dallas-Fort Worth area on Friday prompted officials to offer free admission. It didn't help much, with fewer than 1,000 fans showing up for the game - far short of the announced attendance of 12,598

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ucf-gets-frigid-win-smu-205225423--ncaaf.html

[clenz]

Clarify for me clenzy. Are you saying build so that they accommodate 80% of demand or build so the place is 80% full? If not I think most places could do themselves a favor by not building to please all...the short money ain't the thing to chase by watching how Montana has done it over the time I've watched it happen.

The general...and might be unused at this point..rule I was always told/heard was when you build new/expand you do it so you're current demand is 80-90% new capacity leaving room to grow. People/teams were/are extremely scared of leaving potential money out in the parking lot.

To use FCS teams...

Eastern Washington (since they are in the process) has a current demand of 8-10k. Their new expansion should be roughly 12-14

North Dakota State sells 19k per game but they have a higher demand...probably a "true demand" of 23-25K. A new stadium for them would be advised at roughly 28-30k,

Montana sells out 25k weekly. I would imagine there is a decent demand on top of that. The people I know that are involved with constructing new stadiums would likely advise Montana roughly 33k


That's the "general rule" that's always been thrown around. More goes into it than that obviously. Big pros and cons to using that rule

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The general...and might be unused at this point..rule I was always told/heard was when you build new/expand you do it so you're current demand is 80-90% new capacity leaving room to grow. People/teams were/are extremely scared of leaving potential money out in the parking lot.

To use FCS teams...

Eastern Washington (since they are in the process) has a current demand of 8-10k. Their new expansion should be roughly 12-14

North Dakota State sells 19k per game but they have a higher demand...probably a "true demand" of 23-25K. A new stadium for them would be advised at roughly 28-30k,

Montana sells out 25k weekly. I would imagine there is a decent demand on top of that. The people I know that are involved with constructing new stadiums would likely advise Montana roughly 33k


That's the "general rule" that's always been thrown around. More goes into it than that obviously. Big pros and cons to using that rule

UM is more like DeBeers. Even though you could open up the vault and put the seats in you bottleneck it so the price of each seat is up and everyone that has them is happy to pay it. xlolx

Unless you are damn sure you are gonna keep demand up I think the overbuild has a really big downside that is very flixible with W'L's whereas W'L's (short run) have zero effect on things at Montana because people ain't willing to walk away so quickly. Our situation is different than a lot but I don't think expansion type issues are different too much except that Montana has had a waiting list for tickets that will pretty much tell you what you can add and fill immediately. I don't even know if there is a waiting list anymore though. I doubt it's 3-5K deep like it was though.

[clenz]

UM is more like DeBeers. Even though you could open up the vault and put the seats in you bottleneck it so the price of each seat is up and everyone that has them is happy to pay it. xlolx

Unless you are damn sure you are gonna keep demand up I think the overbuild has a really big downside that is very flixible with W'L's whereas W'L's (short run) have zero effect on things at Montana because people ain't willing to walk away so quickly. Our situation is different than a lot but I don't think expansion type issues are different too much except that Montana has had a waiting list for tickets that will pretty much tell you what you can add and fill immediately. I don't even know if there is a waiting list anymore though. I doubt it's 3-5K deep like it was though.
There is a draw back doing it that way. Recruits see empty seats in a brand new stadium and don't want to come. Team suffers. Fans stop showing up and repeat.

Teams are gonig away from the 80% rule, but it's still around...might be pushed to 90% now though. When it comes to college football (FBS at least) though the rule is "What's my neighbor doing? Oh, well make it a little bigger than that". The perfect examples of that are North Texas and Tulane. Both just opened gorgeous 30k stadiums...neither comes close to filling them consistantly

North Texas - Apogee Stadium - 31k
http://www.meangreenmap.com/images/apogee/apogee1.jpg

Tulane - Yulman Stadium - 30k
http://www.woodwarddesignbuild.com/images/cache/images/uploads/projects/slides/TulaneStadiumGameday2_800_577_s.jpg





I think most FCS schools are smart enough to keep stadiums within reason of their fan base though.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There is a draw back doing it that way. Recruits see empty seats in a brand new stadium and don't want to come. Team suffers. Fans stop showing up and repeat.

Teams are gonig away from the 80% rule, but it's still around...might be pushed to 90% now though. When it comes to college football (FBS at least) though the rule is "What's my neighbor doing? Oh, well make it a little bigger than that". The perfect examples of that are North Texas and Tulane. Both just opened gorgeous 30k stadiums...neither comes close to filling them consistantly

North Texas - Apogee Stadium - 31k
http://www.meangreenmap.com/images/apogee/apogee1.jpg

Tulane - Yulman Stadium - 30k
http://www.woodwarddesignbuild.com/images/cache/images/uploads/projects/slides/TulaneStadiumGameday2_800_577_s.jpg





I think most FCS schools are smart enough to keep stadiums within reason of their fan base though.

Yeah hell if you already NOT doing it though maybe something like that will start to gin up some vibe. Who knows, they sure look good at least.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

These stadiums, additionally, look horribly architected from a fan point of view. Who would ever want to sit in that upper wing of the Mean Green end zone, or in the left and right end zone corners of Tulane's stadium? Talk about exchanging fan experience for a number on the box score.

[Hammerhead]

Even some D-III schools probably have more people in the stadium than MAC schools.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2013Release.pdf

[Catbooster]

I'm sure that 80-90% capacity rule of thumb is based in large part on the cost of design, construction, fund-raising, etc. The more you build at once, the cheaper the cost per seat.

[Mattymc727]

There is a draw back doing it that way. Recruits see empty seats in a brand new stadium and don't want to come. Team suffers. Fans stop showing up and repeat.

Teams are gonig away from the 80% rule, but it's still around...might be pushed to 90% now though. When it comes to college football (FBS at least) though the rule is "What's my neighbor doing? Oh, well make it a little bigger than that". The perfect examples of that are North Texas and Tulane. Both just opened gorgeous 30k stadiums...neither comes close to filling them consistantly

North Texas - Apogee Stadium - 31k


Tulane - Yulman Stadium - 30k






I think most FCS schools are smart enough to keep stadiums within reason of their fan base though.

UNH is the perfect example. They are spending 25 million on a new stadium, but the upgrade will only seat 12-13k. Why make more seats when average attendance indicates we will never fill it.

[Sader87]

I can't see any FCS school building a new stadium (or renovating an existing one) that will hold more than 15K or so given the current trend in game-day attendance.

What did North Texas and Tulane average at home this year?

[clenz]

I can't see any FCS school building a new stadium (or renovating an existing one) that will hold more than 15K or so given the current trend in game-day attendance.

What did North Texas and Tulane average at home this year?
Any?

None?

No current FCS school could/would/should build bigger than 15?

[Sader87]

Who (that already doesn't have a 15K+ facility) in the FCS do you think would regularly draw 15K if they built such a facility?

[Grizzlies82]

UNH is the perfect example. They are spending 25 million on a new stadium, but the upgrade will only seat 12-13k. Why make more seats when average attendance indicates we will never fill it.

New Hampshire is taking the smart way to do it. Build what you can expect to sell/fill, and a new stadium may help boost attendance some. If you average about 10,000 with an already competitive team, you'd 'save' nothing by building to accommodate 18,000 fans. Yet when spending a small fortune to build a new stadium, the university should leave the door open for potential future growth.

The University of Montana is a great model for others to follow. That is; Montana built a 10,000 seat stadium not 26,000 seats. However they planned it so additional seats could be easily incorporated (when or if they're needed). When the current stadium opened seating was only built on the east & west sides. A few years later seating was added on the north side, then south side. Ultimately decks were added on the north and east. The result is over about a 25 year period, the stadium grew in stages to about 12,000, 14,000, 18,000, 22,000, and currently 26,000. If demand is there, Montana could probably get up to 34,000 or so in a couple of more stages of expansion.

I'm not proposing other schools should plan for that growth. Yet I'd suggest when planning a multi-million dollar stadium they construct one which easily allows for future growth. Nobody at UM expected this rapid of an expansion. Thankfully the plan they used allowed them to accommodate for the unexpected.

[Sader87]

Pretty sure Albany built their new facility with that (expansion) in mind.

[Mattymc727]

New Hampshire is taking the smart way to do it. Build what you can expect to sell/fill, and a new stadium may help boost attendance some. If you average about 10,000 with an already competitive team, you'd 'save' nothing by building to accommodate 18,000 fans. Yet when spending a small fortune to build a new stadium, the university should leave the door open for potential future growth.

The University of Montana is a great model for others to follow. That is; Montana built a 10,000 seat stadium not 26,000 seats. However they planned it so additional seats could be easily incorporated (when or if they're needed). When the current stadium opened seating was only built on the east & west sides. A few years later seating was added on the north side, then south side. Ultimately decks were added on the north and east. The result is over about a 25 year period, the stadium grew in stages to about 12,000, 14,000, 18,000, 22,000, and currently 26,000. If demand is there, Montana could probably get up to 34,000 or so in a couple of more stages of expansion.

I'm not proposing other schools should plan for that growth. Yet I'd suggest when planning a multi-million dollar stadium they construct one which easily allows for future growth. Nobody at UM expected this rapid of an expansion. Thankfully the plan they used allowed them to accommodate for the unexpected.

Great post! Looking at the New stadium plans, an outsider might laugh. 25M for that? But put more into quality rather than quantity, leave room for expansion, and build off of the success and UNH could mold into an elite FCS program.

Also, 12-13k is nearly double what Cowell sits now, so it is technically a huge expansion.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I can't see any FCS school building a new stadium (or renovating an existing one) that will hold more than 15K or so given the current trend in game-day attendance.

What did North Texas and Tulane average at home this year?

The last trend I saw was FCS attendance being up so do you have some current information that I haven't seen?

[clenz]

UNI is in the very early phases of planning a UNIDome remodel...

Won't affect seating, but making the dome foot print bigger - adding more restrooms (very badly needed. Line for women can be 20-30 minutes), bigger walk ways for concessions, new/bigger athletic department/football offices, etc... I've seen some leaked designs. I'll see if I can find them

If you've been to the dome you'd know how bad these are needed

[Grizalltheway]

LOL, Ivy and PL teams outdraw the MAC.

Realistically, what is the maximum capacity that the Bison could support given their current run? 35,000 seat stadium asking much?

Playing outside offends their delicate North Dakotan sensibilities.

[Sader87]

The last trend I saw was FCS attendance being up so do you have some current information that I haven't seen?

I dunno ursus....that may be the case in toto but I can't believe it's up that much overall.

Attendance is definitely down overall in the FCS in the Northeast.

[clenz]

Found them.

For reference here is the current footprint/outside and concourses in the dome.

concourses - you can see 3 or 4 people walking side by side in this and they take up 60-70% of the path. Filtering 8k per side down those during games is terrible between bathrooms, concessions, coming in/out of the dome, people standing, etc... it's shoulder to shoulder the entire length of it

http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/admin/wp-content/gallery/northern-iowa-panthers-uni-dome/uni_dome_indoor.jpg

Exterior - facing north
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/admin/wp-content/gallery/northern-iowa-panthers-uni-dome/jkfma-3f3d3748d3dce8b1d3fc8bdf5d2e7603.png




Designs
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/IMG_20141205_234159_zps1rb1h9l1.jpg
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/IMG_20141205_234139_zpszfi57d6u.jpghttp://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/IMG_20141205_234155_zps91yioyl1.jpg
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/IMG_20141205_234203_zpszsumj2ad.jpg

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I dunno ursus....that may be the case in toto but I can't believe it's up that much overall.

Attendance is definitely down overall in the FCS in the Northeast.

It was up in total something like 10% as were revenues but that was around 2012 or so. Maybe things aren't going real well for HC and this is what's driving the pessimism?

I don't know what happened this year but with GSU and App taking off I'd figure if it holds anywhere near what it was that's a win.

[UAalum72]

It was up in total something like 10% as were revenues but that was around 2012 or so. Maybe things aren't going real well for HC and this is what's driving the pessimism?

Of course the Ivy has been sliding downward for 60 or 70 years. Albany and Stony Brook have been edging up, but by themselves can't be considered trendsetters for the region.

[Daytripper]

We need more threads dedicated to NDSU attendance...xeyebrowx

[Sycamore62]

I think most teams should be building to their plan. its nice to recruit to a packed house but they are always empty when they are there for camps and official visits.

[nodak651]

I think most teams should be building to their plan. its nice to recruit to a packed house but they are always empty when they are there for camps and official visits.
So I'm guessing you might think that North Dakota is an exception to your rule... lol

http://jlgarchitects.com/work/sports/und-athletics-master-plan
20362

[Mattymc727]

So I'm guessing you might think that North Dakota is an exception to your rule... lol

http://jlgarchitects.com/work/sports/und-athletics-master-plan
20362

Are there enough people in North Dakota to fill that thing?

[nodak651]

Are there enough people in North Dakota to fill that thing?

I don't think so. Perhaps the smaller retractable roof stadium is the better option!

https://hlc.und.edu/Shared%20Documents/CHAPTER-6-Resources-Planning-Institutional-Effectiveness/Cr5-065-Athletics-Master-Plan.pdf page 9

[Vitojr130]

To be fair, it is impossible for NDSU to outdraw JMU's numbers. If NDSU had a stadium twice the size or at least 150% of the size, they'd probably come close to selling out most of their games. Even though it's a home game, you'll find every single establishment in town that has at least one tv filled to the brim with people watching the game, and that's just in Fargo. However, they have an indoor stadium with around a 19,000 capacity. You can't jam more than capacity in an indoor stadium.

Can confirm. I took a random informal poll at work yesterday and about 30 people, who aren't going to tomorrow's game, said they would go to an NDSU game on a regular basis if the tickets were easier to come by. Sadly, I'm among those who haven't been able to get a ticket for tomorrow and as much as I love the Bison, I'm not going to shell out $200 for a ticket.

[Bisonoline]

Can confirm. I took a random informal poll at work yesterday and about 30 people, who aren't going to tomorrow's game, said they would go to an NDSU game on a regular basis if the tickets were easier to come by. Sadly, I'm among those who haven't been able to get a ticket for tomorrow and as much as I love the Bison, I'm not going to shell out $200 for a ticket.

I just sold one for 40.00. Tickets have been on sale at BV all week.

[Sycamore62]

So I'm guessing you might think that North Dakota is an exception to your rule... lol

http://jlgarchitects.com/work/sports/und-athletics-master-plan
20362

If that is their plan go for it. I wouldnt build a small stadium that wasn't expandable unless it was a dome and couldn't afford more.