NDSU outdrew the other 3 QF games combined. Why???

[Sader87]

Is it the 3 straight titles? The Dome?

On the flip-side, why only 2,333 at Villanova today?

Coastal at NDSU 18,049
Chatty at UNH 6,380
Ill St at EWU 6,239

[Mattymc727]

Nothing else to do in North Dakota? haha, gets em every time!

[taper]

NDSU has always had good attendance, even in the D2 days a normal game would outdraw any of these other playoffs.

A full house for the quarter finals should be the norm. Better question is why these other schools didn't get many through the gate.

[Catsfan90]

UNH has always had poor attendance. I'm convinced half the people here, A don't know we have a team, or if they do know think we are Division 2. People care mostly about the patriots.

[melloware13]

Well for UNH and EWU, that was about 50-70 % of capacity, with a possible reason also being that NDSU has the roof (so it's a chance to come in and be warm instead of go sit in the cold).

[hebmskebm]

It's very simple. There are only a small handful of FCS fanbases that can actually sell out an average sized FCS venue on a regular basis. In fact you can probably count them all on one hand. NDSU had the only one still in the playoffs.

[Southern Bison]

So why is EWU doing a renovation/addition when they cant sell out a playoif game??

Put the money towards a competant DC

[MTfan4life]

Is it the 3 straight titles? The Dome?

On the flip-side, why only 2,333 at Villanova today?

Coastal at NDSU 18,049
Chatty at UNH 6,380
Ill St at EWU 6,239

An average of 8,250 people. That's a far cry from the quarterfinals in 2012 when the average was 15,566 people. Of course it helped that Montana State and Old Dominion were hosting, but look at any school's numbers from this season and compare it with their last playoff hosting opportunity and it's easy to notice that attendance is in a decline. Also, mostly every team usually has its worst attendance in the playoffs.

[DFW HOYA]

Is it the 3 straight titles? The Dome?
On the flip-side, why only 2,333 at Villanova today?


Why NDSU?
1. Indoors.
2. Large season ticket base.
3. No competing sports.

Why not Villanova?
1. Outdoors.
2. Villanova Stadium is not a destination.
3. I-AA football can't compete with the Eagles.
4. Villanova football base is much smaller.

[Sader87]

Villanova puzzles me.....I didn't expect an SRO crowd there today, but this is a program that has won the FCS National Championship very recently, plays in one of the best FCS conferences, a Pro market yes but still a very large metro area for population....2,333???

[PaladinFan]

Attendance is always way down in the playoffs. That is usually true even for schools that draw well in the regular season.

I do think some is geography. Competition in North Dakota isn't what it is elsewhere in the country.

[Sycamore62]

Options and weather

[BearKatProud]

Is it the 3 straight titles? The Dome?

On the flip-side, why only 2,333 at Villanova today?

Coastal at NDSU 18,049
Chatty at UNH 6,380
Ill St at EWU 6,239

My guess: It's because the team is really good and has been for a long time and the fans really like them. Sounds simple, but sustained, high-level success brings the fans in and there are few FCS teams that can claim it. You have 3 FCS teams who have made the post-season 4 years in a row, with only one making deep runs every year.

As I recall, Georgia Southern, App State had solid attendance at home in the playoffs. I might be wrong about that.

[Southern Bison]

Attendance is always way down in the playoffs. That is usually true even for schools that draw well in the regular season.

I do think some is geography. Competition in North Dakota isn't what it is elsewhere in the country.
So in ND there's nothing else to do?? Bull****.

Programs like UNH & EWU don't have any excuses for their poor attendance considering they're the only "game in town".

[Catsfan90]

So in ND there's nothing else to do?? Bull****.

Programs like UNH & EWU don't have any excuses for their poor attendance considering they're the only "game in town".
People don't care that much about college football here. Its a very small fan base, its mostly the patriots.

[SIUSalukiFan]

The real answer to the question is that very few people truly give a **** about FCS football outside of a few notable places.

It is what it is.

[Mattymc727]

6380 is almost full capacity at Cowell. But I agree, UNH should be pulling at least 10k for playoffs. Unfortunately if that were the case there wouldn't be any place for 4k to sit....:(

[Southern Bison]

People don't care that much about college football here. Its a very small fan base, its mostly the patriots.
That's sad...considering the Signal Stealers are in another state...

[Catsfan90]

That's sad...considering the Signal Stealers are in another state...
I 100% agree!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Villanova puzzles me.....I didn't expect an SRO crowd there today, but this is a program that has won the FCS National Championship very recently, plays in one of the best FCS conferences, a Pro market yes but still a very large metro area for population....2,333???

Basketball school?

Fans not excited about Villanova football?

[dewey]

Like others have said NDSU has always had great attendance even in the division 2 days when they were playing outside Dacotah field. However winning 11 National Championships over the last 50 years has created one heck of a fan base. Heck last year NDSU had 17000-19000 fans in Frisco.

Dewey

[Sader87]

The real outlier here is Villanova. UNH I can see, facility now is still kinda rinky-dink (do people still say "rinky-dink?"), Friday night in Decembah etc. I really don't know EWU that well, but I'm guessing they have much the same problems as UNH i.e facility. weather, Seahawk country etc.

6K at both places isn't good but it's not horrendous....2.333 is horrendous.

[MTfan4life]

Interesting to note, Minnesota State Mankato, Mount Union, and Colorado State-Pueblo all outdrew Villanova today.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Interesting to note, Minnesota State Mankato, Mount Union, and Colorado State-Pueblo all outdrew Villanova today.

The biggest game on campus this weekend is the Temple-Villanova bball game tomorrow. College football simply is not a big draw in Philly unless there's some big names involved. It would not surprise me if the St. Joe's Prep State title game drew more media attention in SEPA than the 'Nova-SHSU game today.

[HailSzczur]

That Nova number is bs. there were easily 5k there

[Griz23]

maybe the majority of the FCS fanbase spent all of their money attending the Bayou Classic and SWAC championship and everyone knows that there is no significant FCS football after thoes events....

[SIUSalukiFan]

That Nova number is bs. there were easily 5k there

With the NCAA getting a cut I highly doubt a playoff attendance number is wrong.

[HailSzczur]

With the NCAA getting a cut I highly doubt a playoff attendance number is wrong.

Stadium holds 12,500. The home side is bigger, and was about 2/3 full. Away side easily had 1k.

I'm trying to find pictures

[Gordon Shumway]

FCS football in New England is an afterthought at best. Ask Vermont or Northeastern, or Boston University how important FCS football is in New England.

[Sader87]

The thing is though, whether it's 2,300 or 5 or 6K is quibbling. Those are basically D2 and/or D3 numbahs either way.

This playoff system simply isn't working....in terms of game-day attendance anyway.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Stadium holds 12,500. The home side is bigger, and was about 2/3 full. Away side easily had 1k.

I'm trying to find pictures

Don't waste your strength. I think you would be surprised how people would be jammed into that stadium if there were truly 12,5000 on hand.

Pictures are mirages when it comes to attendance.

[Theee Catrabbit]

So in ND there's nothing else to do?? Bull****.


Name something else...just one other thing people could have done today........just....one....thing.

[patssle]

Name something else...just one other thing people could have done today........just....one....thing.

Fracking?

[frozennorth]

Name something else...just one other thing people could have done today........just....one....thing.I believe und and ndsu had a 'rivalry' bb game just hours later.

[FargoBison]

Name something else...just one other thing people could have done today........just....one....thing.

Probably the same things people in Cheney Washington or Durham New Hampshire were doing today.

[superman7515]

Name something else...just one other thing people could have done today........just....one....thing.

http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/nymr/locoBlackFives/P6255043.jpg

[Bisonator]

Name something else...just one other thing people could have done today........just....one....thing.
Rewatch last weeks game? :D

[gumby013]

Name something else...just one other thing people could have done today........just....one....thing.

Meat Raffle

[marenlee]

That Nova number is bs. there were easily 5k there
I think screenshots of the sad empty bleachers would dispute that.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Like others have said NDSU has always had great attendance even in the division 2 days when they were playing outside Dacotah field. However winning 11 National Championships over the last 50 years has created one heck of a fan base. Heck last year NDSU had 17000-19000 fans in Frisco.

Dewey

What helps NDSU and UND and the Montana schools is being the only show in town. When the highest level of football being played in those states is D2 then 1AA/FCS the culture of collegiate athletics within the state is different. In a lot of states, unless you're an alum or fan of the big state U you're rooting for a "second rate product". In the Northeast there's so many colleges and universities that allegiances are spread very thin. If you were a UNH alum living in suburban Boston and told your neighbor or co-workers you had to leave work early on Friday so you can get to Durham, NH for a football game they'd laugh at you. That wouldn't happen in Fargo, Bozeman or Missoula imo.

If anyone watches Around the Horn they might have noticed that Tony Reali, a Fordham grad, had no idea they were playing Jackie McMullan's #1 ranked UNH Wildcats. In fact, McMullan made fun of him for it.

[Cocky]

With the NCAA getting a cut I highly doubt a playoff attendance number is wrong.
Nobody over reports for sure

[JayJ79]

The thing is though, whether it's 2,300 or 5 or 6K is quibbling. Those are basically D2 and/or D3 numbahs either way.

This playoff system simply isn't working....in terms of game-day attendance anyway.

so should they scrap the D2 and D3 playoffs too, as they aren't "working"?

[Bisonator]

What helps NDSU and UND and the Montana schools is being the only show in town. When the highest level of football being played in those states is D2 then 1AA/FCS the culture of collegiate athletics within the state is different. In a lot of states, unless you're an alum or fan of the big state U you're rooting for a "second rate product". In the Northeast there's so many colleges and universities that allegiances are spread very thin. If you were a UNH alum living in suburban Boston and told your neighbor or co-workers you had to leave work early on Friday so you can get to Durham, NH for a football game they'd laugh at you. That wouldn't happen in Fargo, Bozeman or Missoula imo.
Your telling me there aren't more then 2,333 Villanova alums within reasonable driving distance????

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Your telling me there aren't more then 2,333 Villanova alums within reasonable driving distance????

I doubt that. Villanova is a highly ranked, relatively small private Catholic university. There's a reason they still play most of their bball games in the 6k seat ski lodge and not the WFC....

Marquette and Xavier, who are similar to Villanova, don't sponsor football for a reason....

Most of the big time Villanova sports fans will be there tomorrow for the basketball game....

[DFW HOYA]

Marquette and Xavier, who are similar to Villanova, don't sponsor football for a reason....

They both made a strategically bad decision and consigned themselves to a regional status for their students.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

They both made a strategically bad decision and consigned themselves to a regional status for their students.

Huh? Marquette basketball averages as much as NDSU football and Xavier has been a tournament regular. I don't consider any of those schools as regional....although US News and World reports still does iirc...

St. Louis is another one. I know a lot of the Catholic/Jesuit High schools have great placement numbers with a lot of these schools.

[Sycamore62]

Ive noticed (painfully) that the slightest hint of bad weather drops ISUb attendance from 7-8k to about 4k (I'm generalizing). Also ive seen ISUb grads, even ex-fb players, driving farther to watch Notre Dame on bad weather days. I don't know what competition they have in NH and Cheney but NDSU seems like its in a great position. You can either go watch a game or sit and wait until work on monday. OK I'm just kidding about that part. But if it were ISUb and fans will already pass on bad weather, throw in easy access on ESPN3. If television is causing causing competition for the NFL. It has to be an issue for college games. Plus add in the potential drive time. Do you want to drive 1-3 hours and sit in bad weather? NDSU is guaranteed to have good weather. No chance of missing it because you don't want to sit in the snow.

Thats a little scatter brained but i think i hit all my points

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Villanova puzzles me.....I didn't expect an SRO crowd there today, but this is a program that has won the FCS National Championship very recently, plays in one of the best FCS conferences, a Pro market yes but still a very large metro area for population....2,333???

What Sam Houston State alum do you know in Philly? That's half the problem.

I remember the year after Nova won the national championship, they came to Bethlehem to play Lehigh. I thought the Nova kids, fans, and interested others might make the trip up to Bethlehem (which is a pretty short trip) to watch a defending national champion most likely get a win over the home team. Instead, it was basically Nova friends and family that came up, despite the fact it was a great September day.

Point being that even with success Nova has not had a strong fan following.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The other thing is 100% venue. UNH and Villanova are NOT destinations that are fantastic for college football. UNH has the dungeon - enough said - while Villanova's outdoor experience for a football game is awful, from sight lines to seats. Nobody has on their bucket lists "I've got to see a game in Durham or at Villanova", though I could see someone saying that about the ThunderDome.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

The other thing is 100% venue. UNH and Villanova are NOT destinations that are fantastic for college football. UNH has the dungeon - enough said - while Villanova's outdoor experience for a football game is awful, from sight lines to seats. Nobody has on their bucket lists "I've got to see a game in Durham or at Villanova", though I could see someone saying that about the ThunderDome.

While SEPA would rally around Villanova hoops, the average Philadelphian does not identify with the university. Villanova has always been looked at, rightfully or wrongfully, as the snobby, preppy, collar popped university on the Main Line. Not a gritty city school like La Salle, Drexel, Temple or St. Joe's. Hell, I think Villanova has more of an "elitist" stereotype than UPenn in SEPA. The fact that Rollie and Villanova really destroyed the Big 5 did not help. In fact, I think a lot of Philly sports fans have never forgiven Villanova for that....

[SIUSalukiFan]

Nobody over reports for sure

They can't under-report, either. What purpose would it serve to have 5,000 in the house, pay the NCAA its share based on the 5,000 total then announce 2,600?

[SIUSalukiFan]

What helps NDSU and UND and the Montana schools is being the only show in town. When the highest level of football being played in those states is D2 then 1AA/FCS the culture of collegiate athletics within the state is different. In a lot of states, unless you're an alum or fan of the big state U you're rooting for a "second rate product". In the Northeast there's so many colleges and universities that allegiances are spread very thin. If you were a UNH alum living in suburban Boston and told your neighbor or co-workers you had to leave work early on Friday so you can get to Durham, NH for a football game they'd laugh at you. That wouldn't happen in Fargo, Bozeman or Missoula imo.

If anyone watches Around the Horn they might have noticed that Tony Reali, a Fordham grad, had no idea they were playing Jackie McMullan's #1 ranked UNH Wildcats. In fact, McMullan made fun of him for it.

There's a lot of validity to this post.

[Old Cat Fan]

What helps NDSU and UND and the Montana schools is being the only show in town. When the highest level of football being played in those states is D2 then 1AA/FCS the culture of collegiate athletics within the state is different. In a lot of states, unless you're an alum or fan of the big state U you're rooting for a "second rate product". In the Northeast there's so many colleges and universities that allegiances are spread very thin. If you were a UNH alum living in suburban Boston and told your neighbor or co-workers you had to leave work early on Friday so you can get to Durham, NH for a football game they'd laugh at you. That wouldn't happen in Fargo, Bozeman or Missoula imo.

If anyone watches Around the Horn they might have noticed that Tony Reali, a Fordham grad, had no idea they were playing Jackie McMullan's #1 ranked UNH Wildcats. In fact, McMullan made fun of him for it.

Also the size of the State of North Dakota is the size of the six New England states combined, it would be as if the UNH wildcats were the only show in the six states the fans would come. Instead like Lehigh states above there are the four pro Boston teams one hour away (father to son "hey son do you want to go to the Bruins game or the UNH game" what do you think the answer will be. Than there is the B.C Eagles, Hey son do you want to go to the UNH game or the B.C- USC game? now throw in the other FCS teams Maine ,Rhode Island Former team Umass, all a couple of hours away with their own fan base plus the Manchester semi pro teams .You are basically chasing the seacoast fans which isn't that big of a populated area. Its a tough market like someone else posted ask Boston U,Northeastern and Vermont all have aborted football programs,

[Hammerhead]

Then again, North Dakota only has about 1/2 the population of New Hampshire. It does help that the nearest pro sports teams are 4 hours from Fargo and the Gophers are doing well this year, but haven't usually been good the past 50 years.

[Professor Chaos]

Plenty of NDSU fans are professional sports fans also but it helps that Minnesota pro (and major college) sports are chronically awful. If the Vikings were more like the Patriots in terms of winning tradition they'd be a bigger draw away from NDSU since the twin cities are only a 3.5 hour drive from Fargo (which by ND standards is not that far). However, myself being a Twins/Vikings/T-Wolves fan, I can assure you that if it weren't for the Bison I'd have gone insane by now or completely dropped my sports fandom. It's so refreshing watching a team/organization compete in a sport that isn't completely inept and the Bison are pretty much all I got when it comes to that.

[Sader87]

Obviously NDSU is going to draw.....why though do Villanova, UNH and EWU not draw in any where near the numbahs that NDSU does?

It's a big problem for FCS football going forward, not sure how they solve it.

[Bisonwinagn]

This has been the biggest shock to me since moving up to D1. NDSU averaged about 12K fans in D2 and I just assumed every FCS school would have a minimum of 20K similar to Montana. Also expected every playoff game to be sold out except for maybe Thanksgiving.

[Sader87]

IMO humble opinion....the FCS playoffs should be like the FBS playoffs....4, maybe 8 teams....it's too protracted now...it needs to be shortened up.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Obviously NDSU is going to draw.....why though do Villanova, UNH and EWU not draw in any where near the numbahs that NDSU does?

It's a big problem for FCS football going forward, not sure how they solve it.

It would be a problem if there was a true downward trend but there isn't. These attendance figures have been going on for well over a decade. I still laugh when I think about Lehigh's playoff game against Western Illinois in 2000. Lehigh traveled to the middle of nowhere to kick their ass in front of 1500 people....

Villanova actual attendance is not terrible given the schools size and location. The Wildcats pull in one or two 10k+ crowds a year usually. When the weather is decent they'll get 7k for a ho-hum opponent.

When you play on a such a big stage in basketball but play FCS football is skews the sports culture. The students and alums simply care more about hoops and beating rival Temple today at 2 pm. College bball in general is MUCH MUCH bigger than college football in the city. Philadelphia in general is more of a college bball town than a Sixers town. No one cares the Sixers suck.....

There's simply not many non-FCS alums that are going to be true fans of these programs outside of small college towns. In Bozeman, EVERYONE loves the Bobcats. Temple has something like 100K living alumni within 200 miles of Temple yet we can't get 30K to our games....

[Sader87]

Holy Cross, who has sucked for most of the last 20 years, outdraws in regular season what most of the playoff figures have been.....just sayin'

[344Johnson]

Plenty of NDSU fans are professional sports fans also but it helps that Minnesota pro (and major college) sports are chronically awful. If the Vikings were more like the Patriots in terms of winning tradition they'd be a bigger draw away from NDSU since the twin cities are only a 3.5 hour drive from Fargo (which by ND standards is not that far). However, myself being a Twins/Vikings/T-Wolves fan, I can assure you that if it weren't for the Bison I'd have gone insane by now or completely dropped my sports fandom. It's so refreshing watching a team/organization compete in a sport that isn't completely inept and the Bison are pretty much all I got when it comes to that.

Something we haven't seen brought up is when NDSU is not good, attendance goes down about 3 or 4 thousand. That's not the big thing though.

People in North Dakota are as fair weather as they come. If NDSU is bad, the state is not in some storm cloud outside Cass County. Ditto for UND.

People here cheer for teams if they do well or pretend to care when they are doing well.... But if the team is even just good (say 8-3) people shut down on caring. Probably that way in many FCS schools though.

NDSU has really really really benefited from being in Fargo. Put the school in Bismarck and we'd see similar attendance to what our buddies in Brookings and Grand Forks get.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Holy Cross, who has sucked for most of the last 20 years, outdraws in regular season what most of the playoff figures have been.....just sayin'

Holy Cross, Lehigh and Lafayette football have been pretty well ingrained in their respective communities for over a hundred years. I think that's one reason these schools attendances have dipped but not fallen completely off the cliff. What helps LU and LC is a big football culture in the Lehigh Valley. There's still enough locals to come out to the game for the hell of it...

EWU is located in a very small town 40 minutes outside of Spokane. Wazzu and Gonzaga basketball dominates the college sport landscape in that part of the state.

[Thumper 76]

Something we haven't seen brought up is when NDSU is not good, attendance goes down about 3 or 4 thousand. That's not the big thing though.

People in North Dakota are as fair weather as they come. If NDSU is bad, the state is not in some storm cloud outside Cass County. Ditto for UND.

People here cheer for teams if they do well or pretend to care when they are doing well.... But if the team is even just good (say 8-3) people shut down on caring. Probably that way in many FCS schools though.

NDSU has really really really benefited from being in Fargo. Put the school in Bismarck and we'd see similar attendance to what our buddies in Brookings and Grand Forks get.

Honestly with the new stadium coming I would be very happy to bet a large sum of money SDSU would outdraw all those teams by 2,000 for a quarter final game with the weather we had

[Twentysix]

Stadium holds 12,500. The home side is bigger, and was about 2/3 full. Away side easily had 1k.

I'm trying to find pictures

The ESPN3 broadcast made it look like the away-side easily had 40.

[Twentysix]

Also, NDSU is inflated by the 150 Coastal Carolina fans in attendance.

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/10855113_594960097304144_7624597808368377690_o.jpg

[344Johnson]

Honestly with the new stadium coming I would be very happy to bet a large sum of money SDSU would outdraw all those teams by 2,000 for a quarter final game with the weather we had

Great weather this week! Hope for the best with the new stadium. Will be a great facility

[word]

I believe und and ndsu had a 'rivalry' bb game just hours later.

I was at both...howd that go for you?

[word]

They both made a strategically bad decision and consigned themselves to a regional status for their students.

patrick ewing isn't coming back....the big east is dead.

[word]

Something we haven't seen brought up is when NDSU is not good, attendance goes down about 3 or 4 thousand. That's not the big thing though.

People in North Dakota are as fair weather as they come. If NDSU is bad, the state is not in some storm cloud outside Cass County. Ditto for UND.

People here cheer for teams if they do well or pretend to care when they are doing well.... But if the team is even just good (say 8-3) people shut down on caring. Probably that way in many FCS schools though.

NDSU has really really really benefited from being in Fargo. Put the school in Bismarck and we'd see similar attendance to what our buddies in Brookings and Grand Forks get.

Do us all a favor and just shut the **** up.

[CHIP72]

I only read the last page of the thread (Page 7 up to the post above this one), but I think the biggest difference between NDSU and Villanova, to use the most extreme example, is that NDSU is the biggest game in town in Fargo and for that matter a large chunk of North Dakota and I'd guess some parts of western Minnesota whereas Villanova football ranks way, way down on the list of most followed teams in the Philadelphia area during the fall sports season, behind among others the Philadelphia Eagles, Flyers, 76ers, Villanova's own basketball program, Penn State football, most if not all of the other Philadelphia Big Five/City Six basketball programs, the Eagles, Temple football, Rutgers football and basketball, Delaware football (Wilmington is only about 25 miles from Villanova and is part of the greater Philadelphia metro area), and the Eagles. (Yes, the Eagles would occupy multiple spots ahead of Villanova football.) Division I-A/FBS football (excluding Penn State when they are very good) largely is not on the radar of NFL-focused Philadelphia sports fans (and more broadly Northeast U.S. sports fans - that impacts UNH), so you can be sure that non-major college football definitely isn't on the radar of Philadelphia sports fans, even when non-Division I-A teams are nationally competitive and have even won national championships.

[Gil Dobie]

Name something else...just one other thing people could have done today........just....one....thing.

I was in Fargo during the game. Sports memorabilia show at a hotel. Wedding in the room next door. Several groups of youth hockey coming and going from a tourney. One parent stopped by after sons basketball game. That's just the little part of the FM area I was in.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I was in Fargo during the game. Sports memorabilia show at a hotel. Wedding in the room next door. Several groups of youth hockey coming and going from a tourney. That's just the little part of the FM area I was in.


Pretty cool.

My daughter and I (she's a freshman at NDSU) went out to eat at Texas Roadhouse after the game and it was all yellow and green....xthumbsupx

[IBleedYellow]

Here is something that people need to remember about NDSU:

The NDSU administration, staff and players make the fans feel like they are part of the success the team has had over the past 50 years. When the coaches bring up that the financial backing from Team Makers, the emotional support from the crowds where we will bring 5-10k fans to FBS schools, or the crazy fans that are in the Fargodome actually help the team, and they include the fans in the victories, and the defeats, you feel invested. Hell those of us who are Team Makers ARE invested in this program. That's not even including the 1000s of fans that have more than 100k+ Tailgating Rigs. For 50 years North Dakota State Bison and the fans have felt like one family, and both survive and falter together. This I believe is one of the reasons that we are able to consistently draw so well: NDSU has built a product that has always invested the fans into an entire experience, not just another game. When fans left the game yesterday they were tired (I know I personally was drained and needed to sleep when I got home before the basketball game.), this shows just how much emotional and physical effort the fans put into cheering the entire game long.

It's something different, and I've been to many different Universities around the country, and I've never seen fandoms the same, in the FCS level at least. Next year I'm assuming Montana will be the exact same thing as what NDSU has, btw.

[EKU_SAE]

Because there are no FBS teams in the state, you are one of two universities I know of in North Dakota, you have no competition.

For my school EKU, if you draw a circle in a 2 hour drive of campus there is the following list.
UK
UofL
univeristy of Cincinnati
marshall

Smaller schools
Morehead
georgetown college (NAIA power)
centre
KCU
campbellsville

thats a lot of competition for fans on a Saturday, numbers need to be better, but we are not the only draw in KY

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Good post IBY!!

Agree 100%

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Because there are no FBS teams in the state, you are one of two universities I know of in North Dakota, you have no competition.

For my school EKU, if you draw a circle in a 2 hour drive of campus there is the following list.
UK
UofL
univeristy of Cincinnati
marshall

Smaller schools
Morehead
georgetown college (NAIA power)
centre
KCU
campbellsville

thats a lot of competition for fans on a Saturday, numbers need to be better, but we are not the only draw in KY


That same circle you draw also has many more people in it.

[dewey]

Here is something that people need to remember about NDSU:

The NDSU administration, staff and players make the fans feel like they are part of the success the team has had over the past 50 years. When the coaches bring up that the financial backing from Team Makers, the emotional support from the crowds where we will bring 5-10k fans to FBS schools, or the crazy fans that are in the Fargodome actually help the team, and they include the fans in the victories, and the defeats, you feel invested. Hell those of us who are Team Makers ARE invested in this program. That's not even including the 1000s of fans that have more than 100k+ Tailgating Rigs. For 50 years North Dakota State Bison and the fans have felt like one family, and both survive and falter together. This I believe is one of the reasons that we are able to consistently draw so well: NDSU has built a product that has always invested the fans into an entire experience, not just another game. When fans left the game yesterday they were tired (I know I personally was drained and needed to sleep when I got home before the basketball game.), this shows just how much emotional and physical effort the fans put into cheering the entire game long.

It's something different, and I've been to many different Universities around the country, and I've never seen fandoms the same, in the FCS level at least. Next year I'm assuming Montana will be the exact same thing as what NDSU has, btw.

^^^^Agreed!

Dewey

[CasualFan]

Also, NDSU is inflated by the 150 Coastal Carolina fans in attendance.
That's funny. On the ESPN3 broadcast the camera was tight around that section and made it look like there were more. It looked like the CCU punter's family was holding up a sign for him, so I guess they made the trip.

[Red & Black]

EWU is located in a very small town 40 minutes outside of Spokane.

Try 20 minutes. Wazzu is the school located in a very small town 40 minutes from Spokane.

[Red & Black]

Attendance for the playoffs is always worse. We had 4,000 fewer people at the game yesterday than our regular season average. EWU is on the quarter system which means it's already winter break and most of the students, etc. are gone.

That said, we still should have drawn better than what we did yesterday. Fair weather fans, I suppose.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Attendance for the playoffs is always worse. We had 4,000 fewer people at the game yesterday than our regular season average. EWU is on the quarter system which means it's already winter break and most of the students, etc. are gone.


NDSU was on the quarter system when I went there but now on the semester. Wonder how many still use quarters?

[UNHWildcat18]

Simple, no sports team to follow besides NDSU football. It's also INDOORS! I hate teams that play indoors but it makes it better for anyone of any age to just mosey on in and not have to deal with any weather concerns

[Cocky]

As long as I can get a seat I could careless who else is in attendance.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I would be willing to bet: if Villanova played their playoff games at the Linc or UNH played their playoff games in Foxboro, they would be a decent draw. Venue and game atmosphere matters. It is easy to sell your family on "hey, there's an FCS playoff game at the Linc, there's hot chocolate, a jumbotron for replays, wi-fi, and covered seats!" It is not easy to sell your family on "hey, there's an FCS playoff game on frozen aluminum benches in the freezing cold, and I don't know if there will be concessions or students or..." Once you visit Villanova or UNH, it's no wonder only the hardcores show up.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

What a surprise I had when I read this thread. My memory from Friday night was an energized Cowell Stadium crowd that you should be applauding UNH for! There was an excellent student section and it was loud and rocking. Definitely not a typical Cowell crowd.

Do you dumb azzes know that our capacity is only 6.5K??? And that we had a home ice hockey game vs our arch rival Maine happening concurrently??? Yes, it was in Manchester but had been on the schedule for months. Did you know that at least half our parking was unavailable because it was grass and too wet??? So people knew parking and traffic would be horrendous. And most knew they would probably be forced to stand for the game. It was also snowing for two hours before kick off. With the game on ESPN2, how many casual fans do you think are going to show up????

I had people who weren't going to the game telling me that we wouldn't get 3K. Instead we had people standing around the fence around the field as well as up top of the main grandstand that probably outnumbered the empty seats in the visitor's section.

Sader87, how many threads are you going to talk about this? We get it, you don't like the playoffs. Reality is that it is an NCAA Tournament and there won't be contraction unless leagues drop out. And you live in the Northeast, you KNOW why attendance will never match NDSU or Montana. Holy Cross has the stadium capacity to do so. Someday I hope we get to experience a HC-UNH playoff game there.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Someday I hope we get to experience a HC-UNH playoff game there.

When HC made the playoffs with Dom Randolph, there was a golden opportunity for the FCS playoff committee to set this up. I'll always wonder why they didn't force it.

[344Johnson]

Here is something that people need to remember about NDSU:

The NDSU administration, staff and players make the fans feel like they are part of the success the team has had over the past 50 years. When the coaches bring up that the financial backing from Team Makers, the emotional support from the crowds where we will bring 5-10k fans to FBS schools, or the crazy fans that are in the Fargodome actually help the team, and they include the fans in the victories, and the defeats, you feel invested. Hell those of us who are Team Makers ARE invested in this program. That's not even including the 1000s of fans that have more than 100k+ Tailgating Rigs. For 50 years North Dakota State Bison and the fans have felt like one family, and both survive and falter together. This I believe is one of the reasons that we are able to consistently draw so well: NDSU has built a product that has always invested the fans into an entire experience, not just another game. When fans left the game yesterday they were tired (I know I personally was drained and needed to sleep when I got home before the basketball game.), this shows just how much emotional and physical effort the fans put into cheering the entire game long.

It's something different, and I've been to many different Universities around the country, and I've never seen fandoms the same, in the FCS level at least. Next year I'm assuming Montana will be the exact same thing as what NDSU has, btw.

This was rather cheesy. Do you watch football? We are the only game in town and when the team is good people get excited.

You've never seen a fandom that averages more attendance when the team is good and less when the team is bad?

Instead of writing a long cute narrative that should be titled "Little Dome on the Prairie," you should remember that we don't have any competition locally. The two places without a local FBS team get better attendance. No cuteness needed.

[NY Crusader 2010]

What a surprise I had when I read this thread. My memory from Friday night was an energized Cowell Stadium crowd that you should be applauding UNH for! There was an excellent student section and it was loud and rocking. Definitely not a typical Cowell crowd.

Do you dumb azzes know that our capacity is only 6.5K??? And that we had a home ice hockey game vs our arch rival Maine happening concurrently??? Yes, it was in Manchester but had been on the schedule for months. Did you know that at least half our parking was unavailable because it was grass and too wet??? So people knew parking and traffic would be horrendous. And most knew they would probably be forced to stand for the game. It was also snowing for two hours before kick off. With the game on ESPN2, how many casual fans do you think are going to show up????

I had people who weren't going to the game telling me that we wouldn't get 3K. Instead we had people standing around the fence around the field as well as up top of the main grandstand that probably outnumbered the empty seats in the visitor's section.

Sader87, how many threads are you going to talk about this? We get it, you don't like the playoffs. Reality is that it is an NCAA Tournament and there won't be contraction unless leagues drop out. And you live in the Northeast, you KNOW why attendance will never match NDSU or Montana. Holy Cross has the stadium capacity to do so. Someday I hope we get to experience a HC-UNH playoff game there.

+1

6,500 is actually a solid crowd for a Friday night playoff game at UNH. Couldn't see any other New England FCS school doing better than that. Looked great on TV!

[NY Crusader 2010]

When HC made the playoffs with Dom Randolph, there was a golden opportunity for the FCS playoff committee to set this up. I'll always wonder why they didn't force it.

Losing our last regular season game to Bucknell hurt us. With a 10-1 record, it would have been more difficult IMO for the committee to send us to a top seed even if they didn't give us a home game (which I don't think they would've). Had we beaten Villanova, we would have faced UNH in the second round in Durham in a blizzard.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Why do people continue to be so surprised by these playoff attendance figures? It's not any different than it was 25 years ago. Montana, Montana State, NDSU, Delaware and the late App State and Georgia Southern will fill the seats. Everyone else will have crowds smaller than regular season.

[Sader87]

While always an issue, I think it's dropped off a lot from 25-30 years ago.

Some of this is probably due to the usual reasons we've discussed here about attendance in general (internet, TV, people's schedules today vs. 1985 etc) but it's probably also due to the expansion of the playoffs (more games at smaller venues etc) and how a lot of the former FCS powerhouses that did draw well in the playoffs i.e. App St, Marshall, Boise etc have gone FBS.

[TennBison]

Nothing else to do in North Dakota? haha, gets em every time!
So what your saying is that there is nothing better than going to a NDSU football game in ND, I'll take that any day as a compliment. And that compared to watching a UNH game almost anything else is better and the only ones who show up would be the people who do it as a last resort, OK, sounds good to me.

[TennBison]

Well for UNH and EWU, that was about 50-70 % of capacity, with a possible reason also being that NDSU has the roof (so it's a chance to come in and be warm instead of go sit in the cold).
When NDSU played Divison II they drew 10-12 K for playoff games and quite a few regular season games during the year, and that was before the dome was built.
Funny how so many people make fun of NDSU for playing inside and look at the Bison like they are soft for doing so, and then others turn it around and blame the fact that we only sell out because we have a dome. It is true that the crowd would be different if NDSU played outside. But only because some older folks and those with young kids would not go when it was difficult weather, but then, others would be stepping right in and filling those available seats that can't get season tickets right now. So either way we would still sell out.

[TennBison]

Basketball school?

Fans not excited about Villanova football?

It's like Georgetown, almost no one knows that they play other sports outside of basketball. I bet 90% of the country does not even know they (Georgetown)have a football program.

[TennBison]

That Nova number is bs. there were easily 5k there
Not according to Villanova who did the counting and turned in the numbers.

[TennBison]

The thing is though, whether it's 2,300 or 5 or 6K is quibbling. Those are basically D2 and/or D3 numbahs either way.

This playoff system simply isn't working....in terms of game-day attendance anyway.
To many teams in the playoffs these days. Lets face it, IMO 24 teams does nothing but water down the whole thing. Go with 12 or 16(at the most). Give home field to the team that bids the most, that way schools will think before they bid as to just how many people will show up. You still might end up with a game with only 6 K in attendance but at least the odds are that school didn't go bankrupt trying to get the game in the first place. The 16 team setup would give a chance to not have the games during Thanksgiving plus a chance for the schools to sell more tickets if needed with advertising. I have other pros to this but to many to keep going on with right here.

[TennBison]

Name something else...just one other thing people could have done today........just....one....thing.
I could have stayed at my lake cabin with my family 50 miles away, instead of tailgating with a bunch of Bison fans.

[TennBison]

That same circle you draw also has many more people in it.
I love how they always forget that part. They have five times as many schools around them but ten times the population, yet somehow they just can't manage to find good players, or fans.

[Bisonwinagn]

Why do people continue to be so surprised by these playoff attendance figures? It's not any different than it was 25 years ago. Montana, Montana State, NDSU, Delaware and the late App State and Georgia Southern will fill the seats. Everyone else will have crowds smaller than regular season.

I'm surprised because I have never seen attendance go down in any sport ever for playoffs. The playoffs are the only thing that matters. The regular season is just an exhibition to determine where teams get seeded and see who make it to the real season. I would expect playoff attendance to double or triple due to all the fans who jump on the bandwagon when it matters. Do people seriously not see the playoffs as the most important thing?

[Professor Chaos]

This was rather cheesy. Do you watch football? We are the only game in town and when the team is good people get excited.

You've never seen a fandom that averages more attendance when the team is good and less when the team is bad?

Instead of writing a long cute narrative that should be titled "Little Dome on the Prairie," you should remember that we don't have any competition locally. The two places without a local FBS team get better attendance. No cuteness needed.
You do realize that not every Bison fan has the same lethargic attitude as you do? At any athletic level success is what dictates how willing fans are to support the team, you're not making any great breakthrough with that take. Sustained success leads to tradition and that's something that doesn't go away with one or two bad seasons. NDSU has sustained success and thus the tradition they've built will allow fan support to endure through a down year or two. In 2009 NDSU had one of their worst seasons in the last 50 years yet they still averaged 16,000+ fans which was good enough to be in the top 10 of the FCS (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2009.pdf).

There's plenty of "shows" within 1100 miles of Fargo yet how did ten to twenty thousand folks from the upper Midwest choose to spend their time/money on the 1st weekend of January the last 3 years? There's about 10 NFL teams they could've decided to go see and countless other "major" college football teams within that same radius. That's what IBY is referring to when he says NDSU has an invested fan base.... for the most part. Fans like you and MplsBison can go ahead and maintain your indifferent attitude towards the team you claim to be a fan of because the truth is you both troll your own fan base because it's easy to take pot shots at fans who are passionate and uncompromising in their support and that seems to get you both off.

Having said that I'm done taking the bait but I'm sure your eventual response will get plenty of rebuttals because there's plenty of other "fair weather fans" as you call them who are ready to satisfy your continuing needs for frivolous argument.

[Bronco]

So far we've been lucky having teams with good traveling fan bases make it to Nooga and Frisco.
ESPN is getting pretty good at keeping the camera low but it would be a disaster having 6K fans in Frisco.

They woud be thinking if we don't support our teams why should they.

[HailSzczur]

Can't find a shot of the entire home side, but there were 4 or 5 sections with this crowd, and probably another 4 with half capacity
20319

[Catsfan90]

Someone mentioned it earlier and they were on to something. You need to make the fans feel apart of the team, if not they don't feel as invested. I make the joke all the time that UNH football gets me more emotional than anything else in life. Making fans feel that connection is the only way to grow a fan base.

[Sycamore62]

Just spitballing, but they mentioned ESPN gets to decide who plays Friday and Saturday, so maybe the NCAA doesn't care how many people make these games. Maybe the TV contracts are where the money is at. I have no idea how much they would make off of them I'm just speculating.

[TennBison]

Can't find a shot of the entire home side, but there were 4 or 5 sections with this crowd, and probably another 4 with half capacity
20319
I see a lot of empty seats in that picture, and that is between the 40 and 50 yard lines, traditionally the most packed sections of all stadiums.

[Bisonoline]

Just spitballing, but they mentioned ESPN gets to decide who plays Friday and Saturday, so maybe the NCAA doesn't care how many people make these games. Maybe the TV contracts are where the money is at. I have no idea how much they would make off of them I'm just speculating.

I few years back our AD turned down the Friday night game. Dont know if that still holds.

[Hammersmith]

I few years back our AD turned down the Friday night game. Dont know if that still holds.

I think that was because of winter commencement in the Fargodome. They wanted to keep commencement on Friday and do the game on Saturday. That must not have worked too well because they've chosen to move commencement ever since. It was moved to the BSA the last year or two, and will be moved to Festival Concert Hall this Friday because of the BSA renovation.

[Twentysix]

I think that was because of winter commencement in the Fargodome. They wanted to keep commencement on Friday and do the game on Saturday. That must not have worked too well because they've chosen to move commencement ever since. It was moved to the BSA the last year or two, and will be moved to Festival Concert Hall (and will be broken into three separate services) this Friday because of the BSA renovation.

fify ;)

[Sycamore62]

What are the attendance figures compared to when it was 16 teams? Maybe they should just drop football from college athletics.

[TennBison]

What are the attendance figures compared to when it was 16 teams? Maybe they should just drop football from college athletics.
Better just to drop football from the schools that can't afford it, or the ones where there is basically no interest in it. Not sure if you mean all of college or just some colleges.

[Catsfan90]

I few years back our AD turned down the Friday night game. Dont know if that still holds.
UNH tried to turn it down due to a interstate hockey rivalry in Manchester between UNH and Umaine, but thy wouldn't allow it.

[Sycamore62]

Better just to drop football from the schools that can't afford it, or the ones where there is basically no interest in it. Not sure if you mean all of college or just some colleges.

So how many FCS teams would there be? 6?

[Gordon Shumway]

Just spitballing, but they mentioned ESPN gets to decide who plays Friday and Saturday, so maybe the NCAA doesn't care how many people make these games. Maybe the TV contracts are where the money is at. I have no idea how much they would make off of them I'm just speculating.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that the only reason ESPN even carries the games is because the NCAA makes them carry them as part of some bigger NCAA rights package. ESPN has absolutely nothing to gain from broadcasting these games. There are far cheaper ways of filling a time slot. Whether we like it or not, the general populace could not care less about the FCS playoffs.

[Lehigh'98]

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that the only reason ESPN even carries the games is because the NCAA makes them carry them as part of some bigger NCAA rights package. ESPN has absolutely nothing to gain from broadcasting these games. There are far cheaper ways of filling a time slot. Whether we like it or not, the general populace could not care less about the FCS playoffs.

This is what I don't think a lot of fans realize. The general college fan simply doesn't give a damn. The ratings prove that every year. The average fan doesn't really know the difference between FCS and d2. The Even the crappiest bowl gets more viewers. It's great for us diehards, but nothing in the big picture.

[Sycamore62]

Devil's advocate. Search through your cable right now. Look at the shows. How do they make money. How many viewers does it take to make money for these games.

[CHIP72]

I'm surprised because I have never seen attendance go down in any sport ever for playoffs. The playoffs are the only thing that matters. The regular season is just an exhibition to determine where teams get seeded and see who make it to the real season. I would expect playoff attendance to double or triple due to all the fans who jump on the bandwagon when it matters. Do people seriously not see the playoffs as the most important thing?

You must not follow minor league baseball, in which many teams also experience lower attendance for playoff games than for regular season games.

[Catsfan90]

Devil's advocate. Search through your cable right now. Look at the shows. How do they make money. How many viewers does it take to make money for these games.
Its all about advertising lol

[JSUBison]

This is what I don't think a lot of fans realize. The general college fan simply doesn't give a damn. The ratings prove that every year. The average fan doesn't really know the difference between FCS and d2. The Even the crappiest bowl gets more viewers. It's great for us diehards, but nothing in the big picture.

I bet you could rename the New Hampshire/Illinois State semifinal the Pecan Bowl or something and put it on a major network and it would get similar ratings. The average tv watching slug don't know ****, and would tune in because it's a "bowl game" and not "DII playoffs". I bet if you invented bowl names for each quarterfinal and semifinal playoff games, it might be easier for ESPN or whomever to push.

[Bisonoline]

I bet you could rename the New Hampshire/Illinois State semifinal the Pecan Bowl or something and put it on a major network and it would get similar ratings. The average tv watching slug don't know ****, and would tune in because it's a "bowl game" and not "DII playoffs". I bet if you invented bowl names for each quarterfinal and semifinal playoff games, it might be easier for ESPN or whomever to push.

They have already done that but for some reason they dont promote the game as a bowl game.

[Sycamore62]

They have already done that but for some reason they dont promote the game as a bowl game.

Get a corporate sponsor. Just to make it seem bigger. Tell Nike they can have it for like $5k or something.

[Bisonoline]

Get a corporate sponsor. Just to make it seem bigger. Tell Nike they can have it for like $5k or something.

ESPN OWNs the rights to those games. So they are pretty much an after thought. Thats why many are on ESPN3.

[SIUSalukiFan]

Get a corporate sponsor. Just to make it seem bigger. Tell Nike they can have it for like $5k or something.

I think the time is right for conferences that have no chance of making the FBS College Football playoff field to join forces with the top 50 schools from the FCS ranks and create a new NCAA Division that could set up its own playoff system. Anybody not a part of the big five conferences is eligible to join. FCS schools that don't want to make the commitment can drop down to the current Division II level.

This new group of schools could make its own TV deals and find corporate sponsors to find the playoff series.

[Catsfan90]

I think the time is right for conferences that have no chance of making the FBS College Football playoff field to join forces with the top 50 schools from the FCS ranks and create a new NCAA Division that could set up its own playoff system. Anybody not a part of the big five conferences is eligible to join. FCS schools that don't want to make the commitment can drop down to the current Division II level.

This new group of schools could make its own TV deals and find corporate sponsors to find the playoff series.

It would be difficult to get everyone on board with that. As well as there is quite a big gap IMO between the top of the Group 5 teams, and even the top of the FCS teams. On top of that Division II is already gigantic. I cant see them wanting to accept so many drop down teams. Almost the entire Pioneer conference would have to do just that, as well as the SWAC, and Ivy.

[citdog]

I think the time is right for conferences that have no chance of making the FBS College Football playoff field to join forces with the top 50 schools from the FCS ranks and create a new NCAA Division that could set up its own playoff system. Anybody not a part of the big five conferences is eligible to join. FCS schools that don't want to make the commitment can drop down to the current Division II level.

This new group of schools could make its own TV deals and find corporate sponsors to find the playoff series.

Can't because of people like gerogetown, davidson, dayton etc etc.......

[ccd494]

Maine @ UNH hockey in Manchester drew 5,200 Friday night, simultaneous to 6,500 for UTC-UNH in Durham. That's 11,000+ at UNH home sporting events on Friday night.

You'd have to believe that some of the people at the hockey game would have gone to the football game if they hadn't already bought tickets to Manchester. Only knowing one week in advance that you will be hosting a game really kills the ability of casual fans to plan ahead to go to games. Only die hards will weeks in advance block off a Friday night/Saturday day in December for the possibility of a home playoff game.

[gumby013]

I think you all are underestimating the drawing power of meat raffles.

[clenz]

IBY can type whatever feel good diatribe he wants about inclusion and this and that.

The reality of the situation comes down to 1.5 things

1. Only real option in town
.5. Being indoors.

The fact of the matter is that NDSU gets a HUGE boost from being the only show in the state when it comes to football (be real, UND football is drawing anyone outside of Grand Forks, really). They are further from the Twin Cities than UNI is. That is a MAJOR boost for them. What else is going to draw people, in a football hungry part of the country (the Iowa/Wisconsin/ND/Minnesota/Illinois/Part of Ohio/Michigan area is second to only the SEC territory for football craziness), away from the NDSU game within a 3 hour drive of Fargo? The Fargo Force?

We seem to have this type of discussion yearly. There are a couple FCS schools that see a HUGE boost because they are the only show/biggest show in town compared to the rest of the FCS - NDSU, Montana, Montana State and to a relatively smaller degree South Dakota State. Even the pro teams in the area of Fargo aren't going to draw attention right now...Vikings are 6-8, Twins have been terrible for 3 years, Timberwolves one of the worst franchises in the NBA, and the Wild are good but not going to draw a huge following in Fargo that would take hockey over football.

The Northeast also isn't a college area, outside of Philly 5/Georgetown/Syracuse basketball. The Cuse/Nova basketball game will likely draw the SRO capacity of 22k at Wells Fargo. If in Syracuse it would draw close to 40k.


I know NDSU drew well when it was outside...but combine being inside with the fact it's the only damn show in town and you've got a perfect storm to draw like crazy.

UNI still draws well in the playoffs - 12-15K depending on the game - but if we were outside we would drop to 7K depending on how cold it was....and if the Hawkeyes or Cyclones have a big basketball game that day it would drop to 5k

[SIUSalukiFan]

Can't because of people like gerogetown, davidson, dayton etc etc.......

I don't buy that for a second.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

maybe the majority of the FCS fanbase spent all of their money attending the Bayou Classic and SWAC championship and everyone knows that there is no significant FCS football after thoes events....


http://thelatelunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Screen-Shot-2012-07-23-at-11.49.37-AM-600x294.png

Anna here we go........

[IBleedYellow]

Chad, say what you want man, but it's not just 19k fans that are only there to be quiet, like the 14k quiet fans we hear about at UNI all the time, minus the NDSU game. We fans feel part of the experience, and since you don't know what that means, even though you worked for the damn athletic department!

The fact NDSU is the only show in town helps us use that as more to feel like this is the home teams product. You'll never understand when I say the part of being apart of the programs, and that's fine. I know Montana fans know what I mean.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator

[clenz]

Chad, say what you want man, but it's not just 19k fans that are only there to be quiet, like the 14k quiet fans we hear about at UNI all the time, minus the NDSU game. We fans feel part of the experience, and since you don't know what that means, even though you worked for the damn athletic department!

The fact NDSU is the only show in town helps us use that as more to feel like this is the home teams product. You'll never understand when I say the part of being apart of the programs, and that's fine. I know Montana fans know what I mean.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator
It's funny you think you know what you're talking about....it really is...time after time after time....

Put NDSU in an area with 6-8 B10/B12 schools within a 5 hour drive (instead of 1) and about 5-10 smaller programs in that same area and I promise you it wouldn't be the same thing.

Think about the other program you mentioned...Montana. Their closest FBS programs are Boise State...200 miles away....Idaho...over 250 miles away...Washington State...over 250 miles away...over 8 hours to UW...12 hours to Wyoming...

Again....when you're the only rodeo in town it's completely different.


But you wouldn't know anything about that.


It's tough to draw at UNI with 70k+ in the stadium in Iowa City (plus another 40-50k there to tailgate) and 55k in Jack Trice (with another 20-30k there to tailgate) both within a two hour drive...Oh...and they both draw over 14k for basketball...and 14k for wrestling...and 10k plus for womens basketball...


Again, you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to trying to get people to a game in a setting like that.

[IBleedYellow]

No **** dude. But you still have to put a competitive product on the field to make people come. It's not just like being isolated all of a sudden makes you a power program. Look at UND.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator

[clenz]

No **** dude. But you still have to put a competitive product on the field to make people come. It's not just like being isolated all of a sudden makes you a power program. Look at UND.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator
No ****.

If NDSU was going 3-9 every year you think they would still draw 19k?

15k?

12k?


You think 8-3ish every year would draw 19k with a couple P5 schools within a stones throw that go 8-4 and go to post new year bowls yearly...or are playing teams like Texas, Oklahoma, OK State, etc... weekly with enrollments over 30-40k?


It's easy to get people to "feel a part of the program" when there is no one ****ing else to try to fight with to get them to buy into being a part of the program.

[clenz]

The number of NDSU fans that are completely removed from any sense of reality when it comes to anything not NDSU related is amazingly high.

[Sycamore62]

Its not just a situation where none of the other local teams have games, its that there are no other teams. If you took any of the teams in my area and removed the competition, there would likely be the same following for whichever team was left.

[clenz]

Its not just a situation where none of the other local teams have games, its that there are no other teams. If you took any of the teams in my area and removed the competition, there would likely be the same following for whichever team was left.
Exactly.

ISUb is as close/closer to Notre Dame, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Louisville, Kentucky, Mizzou, Cinci, Ohio State than NDSU is to Minnesota.


Oh...and like 2 dozen MAC, Sun Belt, CUSA, AAC teams..

Not to mention the pro teams in that area.


But NDSU would never struggle to draw if they had that kind of competition...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Certainly the New York City metro area doesn't rally around Fordham football the way that part of North Dakota rallies around NDSU football. But Fordham doesn't also have a "stadium/tailgate destination" feel to it either. I think if it did, they'd have a lot more fans.

Even when the Jets and Giants suck, going to tailgate at that stadium is an event. Until schools (and it's not just Fordham and Lehigh, it's about 75-80% of all Division I schools) figure out how to make their sporting events destination events, overall attendance will struggle. Combine that with the week turnaround for coming together with any plans to attend and it's even harder.

I think clenz' point is spot-on in that NDSU has the sort-of perfect storm of success, venue, football-crazed-ness, and lack of competition - the same exact thing that Montana has. Boise State is to Montana State/Montana as Minnesota is to NDSU. Other schools, though, have a different type of challenge, especially the Northeast schools.

[344Johnson]

The number of NDSU fans that are completely removed from any sense of reality when it comes to anything not NDSU related is amazingly high.

This. We don't have to complete with FBS programs for fans, money, etc.

Easy to have good attendance/financial support when you are not competing with major programs for fans and money.

Montana and North Dakota are the two places where FCS schools get the local media coverage, the people grew up watching the FCS teams, etc.

Probably big reasons why the schools in said states are not FBS is because they already get all the attention locally. No need to differentiate themselves when they are already the big cheese in the state.

[344Johnson]

Exactly.

ISUb is as close/closer to Notre Dame, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Louisville, Kentucky, Mizzou, Cinci, Ohio State than NDSU is to Minnesota.


Oh...and like 2 dozen MAC, Sun Belt, CUSA, AAC teams..

Not to mention the pro teams in that area.


But NDSU would never struggle to draw if they had that kind of competition...

YOU UNDERESTIMATE WHAT WE HAVE BUILT IN FARGO!!!! TRADITION! CHAMPIONSHIPS! HISTORY! FANS ARE PART OF THE SUCCESS. FARGODOME NOISE! FBS WINS FOR DAYS! JEALOUSY! TAILGATE!

/sarcasm. What NDSU/Montana has is a unique successful situation based on geography and other factors. It's too bad many of my fellow North Dakotans are unable to accept that for what it is without getting defensive.

[clenz]

This. We don't have to complete with FBS programs for fans, money, etc.

Easy to have good attendance/financial support when you are not competing with major programs for fans and money.

Montana and North Dakota are the two places where FCS schools get the local media coverage, the people grew up watching the FCS teams, etc.

Probably big reasons why the schools in said states are not FBS is because they already get all the attention locally. No need to differentiate themselves when they are already the big cheese in the state.
Exactly.


UNI basketball is 9-1 and ranked #23 right now...zero coverage in this state. It's all about the unranked hawkeyes.
UNI basketball went to the S16...were ranked during that season. No coverage until the S16
UNI football went 12-0 in 2007, ranked number 1 all season....no coverage until the quarters


I hate to say "you don't get it" but IBY...you don't. I've told you this before and it's been proven again. You have no idea about anything non NDSU related it seems

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

No **** dude. But you still have to put a competitive product on the field to make people come. It's not just like being isolated all of a sudden makes you a power program. Look at UND.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator


Why argue with these two?

NDSU still had very good attendance in our 3-8 season in '09.


hey clenz....get off your frickin perch or your head will topple over.....xcoffeex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Was just thinking - you know who's an outlier to my theory about venue? Portland State. I would think their venue (Providence Park) could very well be the type of "destination tailgate/event" place that could be very successful. However, they aren't. Maybe it's because of the four things I've mentioned (venue, success, football-crazed-ness, competition) it really only has the venue. Success has been patchy at best, competition is terrible with Oregon and Oregon State, and overall I don't think of Portland as particularly football-crazed.

[clenz]

Why argue with these two?

NDSU still had very good attendance in our 3-8 season in '09.


hey clenz....get off your frickin perch or your head will topple over.....xcoffeex
What's funny is that it's the NDSU fan base on a perch about their attendance


Do you think had NDSU continued to be a 3 to 5 win team you'd still be averaging 19k?

[NDSUSR]

The number of NDSU fans that are completely removed from any sense of reality when it comes to anything not NDSU related is amazingly high.

We are not "removed from reality", we just dont care. :)

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

What's funny is that it's the NDSU fan base on a perch about their attendance


Do you think had NDSU continued to be a 3 to 5 win team you'd still be averaging 19k?


In '09, when the Bison were 3-8, the attendance was 16,515. That is still 88% of capacity. NDSU will still be over 90% capacity even if they have a 3-5 win season next year.

[clenz]

In '09, when the Bison were 3-8, the attendance was 16,515. That is still 88% of capacity. NDSU will still be over 90% capacity even if they have a 3-5 win season next year.
Again....answer my question.


Even with being the only show in town would a 3-5 win team draw 19k every year?


Or...even if it does it proves the point that being the only show in town is really all that matters. Be the team good or bad there's nothing/no one else to support.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What's funny is that it's the NDSU fan base on a perch about their attendance


Do you think had NDSU continued to be a 3 to 5 win team you'd still be averaging 19k?

Take a look at Delaware's attendance for supporting evidence.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Again....answer my question.


Even with being the only show in town would a 3-5 win team draw 19k every year?


Or...even if it does it proves the point that being the only show in town is really all that matters. Be the team good or bad there's nothing/no one else to support.



It wouldn't matter what I say or what kind of stats I tried to put up, you would just keep spouting off your opinion.

To answer your question.....a 3 win team next year would not draw 19K fans but the fact that they are not a good team would have almost everything to do with that....not, as you say...."only show in town".

And the "only show in town" is not true. I know many people that go to Gopher football games, Winnipeg Jets games, Timberwolves games, Gopher Hockey, Fargo Force hockey...etc.

[gotts]

It wouldn't matter what I say or what kind of stats I tried to put up, you would just keep spouting off your opinion.

To answer your question.....a 3 win team next year would not draw 19K fans but the fact that they are not a good team would have almost everything to do with that....not, as you say...."only show in town".

And the "only show in town" is not true. I know many people that go to Gopher football games, Winnipeg Jets games, Timberwolves games, Gopher Hockey, Fargo Force hockey...etc.

They would sell 19K tickets, physical attendance wouldn't be there, though.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

They would sell 19K tickets, physical attendance wouldn't be there, though.


Ya, you are right. The last few years, all of the games have been sold out (bought tickets) but there are always some no shows!

Good point.

[TypicalTribe]

I haven't seen anyone mention one of the most important reasons affecting Villanova's attendance for the quarters. That is, they were the only home team that wasn't expecting to host a game this weekend. The other three teams were top 4 seeds and knew they'd host again with a win. Villanova was a surprise host and that's tough during the Christmas season when people have lined up other plans. Especialy if the game can be watched elsewhere, even on ESPN3.

Truth be told, there's never a big crowd at that stadium. It's simply not a good venue. I think it's a shame given the success of the program, but it's certainly not going to change at this point.

[JSUBison]

It's funny you think you know what you're talking about....it really is...time after time after time....

Put NDSU in an area with 6-8 B10/B12 schools within a 5 hour drive (instead of 1) and about 5-10 smaller programs in that same area and I promise you it wouldn't be the same thing.

Think about the other program you mentioned...Montana. Their closest FBS programs are Boise State...200 miles away....Idaho...over 250 miles away...Washington State...over 250 miles away...over 8 hours to UW...12 hours to Wyoming...

Again....when you're the only rodeo in town it's completely different.


But you wouldn't know anything about that.


It's tough to draw at UNI with 70k+ in the stadium in Iowa City (plus another 40-50k there to tailgate) and 55k in Jack Trice (with another 20-30k there to tailgate) both within a two hour drive...Oh...and they both draw over 14k for basketball...and 14k for wrestling...and 10k plus for womens basketball...


Again, you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to trying to get people to a game in a setting like that.

App State figured it out. I'm not going to break out my compass and protractor to see how many P5 FBS schools and FCS schools are within a 5 hour drive, but I'm sure it's similar if not more. A lot of ASU fans are driving right by ACC and SEC stadiums on the way to Boone. Southern, Jackson State, Delaware etc are some more examples. Throw NCAT, FAMU and soon to be Kennesaw State in that group as well. If you want to say those schools attract more fans because of higher population in the area, then I don't know what the argument is. If NDSU had those same issues as UNI, that would mean there would be a boatload of more people in the area as well, to draw your fanbase from. Just like ASU did.

In conclusion, I agree NDSU does benefit from being the BIG SHOW. But other schools who are 3rd, 4th, or 5th popular team in their area can get it done as well.

[clenz]

It wouldn't matter what I say or what kind of stats I tried to put up, you would just keep spouting off your opinion.

To answer your question.....a 3 win team next year would not draw 19K fans but the fact that they are not a good team would have almost everything to do with that....not, as you say...."only show in town".

And the "only show in town" is not true. I know many people that go to Gopher football games, Winnipeg Jets games, Timberwolves games, Gopher Hockey, Fargo Force hockey...etc.You're still making my point.

Success starts to fall and fans start looking to cross international boarders to watch hockey...or go to minor league hockey...or drive 4 hours to a terrible NBA franchise.

[Professor Chaos]

The number of NDSU fans that are completely removed from any sense of reality when it comes to anything not NDSU related is amazingly high.
And the number of people who continue to belittle us because we're passionate about our local FCS team is just as high.

Personally, I have no doubt that if NDSU didn't have the winning tradition that they do they wouldn't draw as well. Where I disagree is with the assumption that those of us up here don't have other ways to spend our time/money than by supporting Bison football. We're not cut off from the rest of the sports world when it comes to major college football, NFL, MLB, etc. Minneapolis is not that far from Fargo by our standards. You're absolutely right that the chronic ineptitude displayed by Minnesota sports teams certainly helps the Bison's popularity because the reason why Bison football is so popular up here is because they're ****ing good. They've been good for a long time and we all expect them to continue to be good. That is reason 1 and 1a, beyond that there's other factors that lead to increased fan support but none that hold a candle to that. Success breeds success. The fan support NDSU has contributes to the success of the team and the success of the team leads to increased fan support.

[Sader87]

The real question imo is where would these playoff attendances be now (and in the last few years) sans NDSU?

Sam Houston St is relatively nearby, so that would help....but what would a SH St/UNH title game draw in Frisco???

[UNH72Plus]

The fact that the UNH-Chatty game was on ESPN2 in prime time kept a lot of people home. The weather was less than perfect, the stadium is the Dungeon and has no video replay, the game got out at 11:30 PM and a lot of people don't like driving home at that time in New England weather, a lot of families didn't come because of the late hour, and tailgating was somewhat suppressed because of the closing of "Boulder Field".

Nearly everybody I talked to today watched the game on TV.

[BisonBacker]

It's funny you think you know what you're talking about....it really is...time after time after time....

Put NDSU in an area with 6-8 B10/B12 schools within a 5 hour drive (instead of 1) and about 5-10 smaller programs in that same area and I promise you it wouldn't be the same thing.

Think about the other program you mentioned...Montana. Their closest FBS programs are Boise State...200 miles away....Idaho...over 250 miles away...Washington State...over 250 miles away...over 8 hours to UW...12 hours to Wyoming...

Again....when you're the only rodeo in town it's completely different.


But you wouldn't know anything about that.


It's tough to draw at UNI with 70k+ in the stadium in Iowa City (plus another 40-50k there to tailgate) and 55k in Jack Trice (with another 20-30k there to tailgate) both within a two hour drive...Oh...and they both draw over 14k for basketball...and 14k for wrestling...and 10k plus for womens basketball...


Again, you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to trying to get people to a game in a setting like that.

If you had a team that didn't crap the bed anytime they get to the playoffs and actually won when it mattered maybe you'd be drawing better. Cry me a river about the competition. You don't put a competitive product on the field when it counts and that makes a difference.

[Go Green]

Why not Villanova?
1. Outdoors.
2. Villanova Stadium is not a destination.
3. I-AA football can't compete with the Eagles.
4. Villanova football base is much smaller.

#5 Philadelphia hasn't cared about college football in ages. Remember why Temple originally got kicked out of the Big East?

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/03/sports/plus-college-football-temple-voted-out-of-the-big-east.html

[Bill]

In conclusion, I agree NDSU does benefit from being the BIG SHOW. But other schools who are 3rd, 4th, or 5th popular team in their area can get it done as well.

I agree...and don't have a horse in this race. However, there's no way Villanova is the 3rd, 4th, or 5th most popular team in the area....probably not even in the top 10!

[CHIP72]

It wouldn't matter what I say or what kind of stats I tried to put up, you would just keep spouting off your opinion.

To answer your question.....a 3 win team next year would not draw 19K fans but the fact that they are not a good team would have almost everything to do with that....not, as you say...."only show in town".

And the "only show in town" is not true. I know many people that go to Gopher football games, Winnipeg Jets games, Timberwolves games, Gopher Hockey, Fargo Force hockey...etc.

That's because they AREN'T in town and Fargo area sports fans who want to attend live sports events don't have many options in the local/regional (< 2 hour drive) area. If I wanted to drive or travel 4 hours to attend games, I could see 5-6 NFL teams, 4 NBA teams, 5-7 NHL teams, about 10 Division I-A/FBS football teams, and over 20 Division I basketball teams, plus other minor league and/or niche sport teams. And that's just during the fall sports season!

NDSU's fan support (and for that matter Montana's and Montana State's fan support) is analogous to the ecosystem in Australia - different animal and plant life (i.e. widespread support for a Division I-AA/FCS program) was able to exist there because it was able to develop in isolation. In areas where those animals and plants had to compete with a larger pool of animals and plants (i.e. Division I-AA/FCS teams competing for attention with NFL teams and/or Division I-A/FBS programs, especially "state" DI-A/FBS programs), those animals and plants were marginalized and then pushed out of existence (or in the case of Division I-AA/FCS programs in those more competitive areas, have more limited fan support).

The above isn't to say NDSU doesn't deserve its fan support or to belittle the fan support NDSU gets. The team deserves the support it receives. It's to say that other strong Division I-AA/FCS programs, even ones in big "football areas", don't draw as well because they have a lot more competition for the sports fan dollar and in almost all cases, aren't the state school in their state. (And even in cases where they ARE the state school, in many cases they are in small states area-wise and are still close to a large city with major league pro sports, like UNH with Boston and UD with Philadelphia.)

[CHIP72]

I agree...and don't have a horse in this race. However, there's no way Villanova is the 3rd, 4th, or 5th most popular team in the area....probably not even in the top 10!

See also Post #70 of this thread.

[Daytripper]

The real question imo is where would these playoff attendances be now (and in the last few years) sans NDSU?

Sam Houston St is relatively nearby, so that would help....but what would a SH St/UNH title game draw in Frisco???

Probably close to a sellout, but with about 90-95% of the crowd SHSU.

[Bill]

See also Post #70 of this thread.

Ahh...didn't read back that far! And here I was, thinking I had something original to offer...xrolleyesx

[Hammerhead]

Here in Portland, the local Saturday sportscast might have a couple of Portland State highlights if it's a home game and maybe a story about one of the players in the middle of the week when there isn't much going on. Other than that, it's all Pac-12 and any other top-25 matchups and the Mariners in baseball season or the Trailblazers when NBA preseason starts.


This. We don't have to complete with FBS programs for fans, money, etc.

Easy to have good attendance/financial support when you are not competing with major programs for fans and money.

Montana and North Dakota are the two places where FCS schools get the local media coverage, the people grew up watching the FCS teams, etc.

Probably big reasons why the schools in said states are not FBS is because they already get all the attention locally. No need to differentiate themselves when they are already the big cheese in the state.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

How does UND hockey draw in down years? There's such a culture in Grand Forks and Fargo and Eastern ND in general that hockey and football games are the thing to do. There's a reason why UND has the nicest on-campus hockey arena in the country. It's the same reason why NDSU football will always have fans.

While there's a tremendous football culture in the south, there's a reason the largest college stadium resides in the rural mountains of Central Pennsylvania. Losing seasons or scandals won't stop 90k+ fans to make the pilgrimage to State College 6-7 Saturday's in the fall. That ingrained habit is what exists in Montana and North Dakota at the 4 schools located in those states.

I don't think you can discount the rivalry aspect that exists in Montana and North Dakota. The ability to argue and bicker in the workforce and family functions creates a tremendous amount of institutional pride. In many ways, it's impossible for that to happen at any other FCS school. It's basically Auburn/Alabama within those states.

[Gordon Shumway]

I haven't seen anyone mention one of the most important reasons affecting Villanova's attendance for the quarters. That is, they were the only home team that wasn't expecting to host a game this weekend. The other three teams were top 4 seeds and knew they'd host again with a win. Villanova was a surprise host and that's tough during the Christmas season when people have lined up other plans. Especialy if the game can be watched elsewhere, even on ESPN3.

Truth be told, there's never a big crowd at that stadium. It's simply not a good venue. I think it's a shame given the success of the program, but it's certainly not going to change at this point.

Excellent point, but the train left the station on the original OP a long time ago. 20327

[clenz]

there's a reason the largest college stadium resides in the rural mountains of Central Pennsylvania. .

That's false

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

That's false

You're right Michigan did pass it again. Beaver Stadium is second, a few hundred seats ahead of Kyle Field....

[TennBison]

What's funny is that it's the NDSU fan base on a perch about their attendance


Do you think had NDSU continued to be a 3 to 5 win team you'd still be averaging 19k?Funny how you try to use a team with 3-5 wins as an example but the thread is about playoff games, in which a 3-5 win team would not be playing. Like the one poster said before, App St and Georgia Southern sure had it figured out, they drew big crowds with all that competition for attendance. Don't blame geography and lack of competition for events for the success NDSU has with attendance and fan support. NDSU through the years has built a fan nation that most schools can only dream of. And that did not happen by mistake, it took lots of effort,planning and vision. The Montana schools and NDSU fans of today get to stand on the shoulders of those who built tradition and had vision in the past and will continue to advance the tradition themselves for the future. They are not sitting back making excuses about why they can't draw, but working on ways to make it even bigger.
Sure NDSU has a 19K dome and you don't,so get your school to put together a proposal and go to the city/state and ask for one. NDSU did it and had a great plan and sold the city on it even before they had 19K fans going to games. Or maybe try to figure out why the potential fans in the stands who went to your own school(alumni) would rather go watch a FBS school that they didn't even attend. Or try figuring out why some schools like NDSU are able to get their fans to come from hundreds of miles away but your school can't get people to walk across the street. NDSU fans put a huge effort no matter what the weekend is or when the game was announced to making it to the games. Schools like UNH have trouble being the biggest game on their own campus. Either way, NDSU took the time and made a huge conscious effort to build up the fan base it has, it did not just fall into their lap. The number of former players and alumni that invest their time and effort pays off, get yours to do the same. You need to educate fans about your product to get them to come see it, NDSU has billboards for Bison football games in Minneapolis/St Paul (250 miles away), does your school (or any others for that matter)do that. You can't just put up a Facebook page and expect 15K+ fans to come knocking on your door and handing you money.

[Bisonoline]

What's funny is that it's the NDSU fan base on a perch about their attendance


Do you think had NDSU continued to be a 3 to 5 win team you'd still be averaging 19k?

Hard to say as we havent had too many of those type of seasons. But lets be honest it kind of assinine to use our max attendance and 3-5 wins in the same sentence.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Funny how you try to use a team with 3-5 wins as an example but the thread is about playoff games, in which a 3-5 win team would not be playing. Like the one poster said before, App St and Georgia Southern sure had it figured out, they drew big crowds with all that competition for attendance. Don't blame geography and lack of competition for events for the success NDSU has with attendance and fan support. NDSU through the years has built a fan nation that most schools can only dream of. And that did not happen by mistake, it took lots of effort,planning and vision. The Montana schools and NDSU fans of today get to stand on the shoulders of those who built tradition and had vision in the past and will continue to advance the tradition themselves for the future. They are not sitting back making excuses about why they can't draw, but working on ways to make it even bigger.
Sure NDSU has a 19K dome and you don't,so get your school to put together a proposal and go to the city/state and ask for one. NDSU did it and had a great plan and sold the city on it even before they had 19K fans going to games. Or maybe try to figure out why the potential fans in the stands who went to your own school(alumni) would rather go watch a FBS school that they didn't even attend. Or try figuring out why some schools like NDSU are able to get their fans to come from hundreds of miles away but your school can't get people to walk across the street. NDSU fans put a huge effort no matter what the weekend is or when the game was announced to making it to the games. Schools like UNH have trouble being the biggest game on their own campus. Either way, NDSU took the time and made a huge conscious effort to build up the fan base it has, it did not just fall into their lap. The number of former players and alumni that invest their time and effort pays off, get yours to do the same. You need to educate fans about your product to get them to come see it, NDSU has billboards for Bison football games in Minneapolis/St Paul (250 miles away), does your school (or any others for that matter)do that. You can't just put up a Facebook page and expect 15K+ fans to come knocking on your door and handing you money.

App State, historically, drew well but not eye-popping numbers iirc. The received a tremendous boost during their 3-peat which allowed them to make some nice renovations to Kidd Brewer. Attendance began to decline the last few years. The also almost never sold out playoff games and often posted somewhat pedestrian figures. Georgia Southern traditionally, drew better year after year than App State but still can't match NDSU's playoff figures. I've watched plenty of GSU playoff games post AP/Paul Johnson where there were numerous empty seats. Those two are about to face something NDSU doesn't really have to deal with, political BS as a FBS school. They will never ever have the facilities or money their in-state public FBS "peers" possess.

Most FCS schools will never have what the NDSU or the Montana schools do because of political BS. The Commonwealth of KY is going to invest the largest pieces of the pie into UK and Louisville. EKU and WKU will receive the scraps. That's basically the obstacle that every public FCS school faces.

Are you from Tennessee? How much is MTSU, Tennessee-Martin, Tennessee State overshadowed by the Vols? How can those schools really build much of a fan base when you have a giant like that in the state? In some places you really honestly get mocked and laughed at for watching "D2" football. It's not easy to get friends and family to these games when they can stay at home and watch "real" football on TV.....

[TennBison]

App State, historically, drew well but not eye-popping numbers iirc. The received a tremendous boost during their 3-peat which allowed them to make some nice renovations to Kidd Brewer. Attendance began to decline the last few years. The also almost never sold out playoff games and often posted somewhat pedestrian figures. Georgia Southern traditionally, drew better year after year than App State but still can't match NDSU's playoff figures. I've watched plenty of GSU playoff games post AP/Paul Johnson where there were numerous empty seats. Those two are about to face something NDSU doesn't really have to deal with, political BS as a FBS school. They were never ever have the facilities or money their in-state public FBS "peers" possess.

Most FCS schools will never have what the NDSU or the Montana schools do because of political BS. The Commonwealth of KY is going to invest the largest pieces of the pie into UK and Louisville. EKU and WKU will receive the scraps. That's basically the obstacle that every public FCS school faces.

Are you from Tennessee? How much is MTSU, Tennessee-Martin, Tennessee State overshadowed by the Vols? How can those schools really build much of a fan base when you have a giant like that in the state? In some places you really honestly get mocked and laughed at for watching "D2" football. It's not easy to get friends and family to these games when they can stay at home and watch "real" football on TV.....
I am from NJ and live in Fargo, but played football at Tennessee back in the early to mid 80's. Like I said, small schools that have alumni that would rather watch a big FBS school they never even attended really need to wonder what is going on when they can't even get one of their own to attend. The reason I got hooked on NDSU is two things, I live in Fargo now and the wife is an NDSU alumni. I personally have no desire now nor had any after graduating from Tennessee to watch Vols football or continue my association with it due to the machine it had become with the internal workings of it's football program and the things that were done at all costs to maintain it in that way.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

I am from NJ and live in Fargo, but played football at Tennessee back in the early to mid 80's. Like I said, small schools that have alumni that would rather watch a big FBS school they never even attended really need to wonder what is going on when they can't even get one of their own to attend. The reason I got hooked on NDSU is two things, I live in Fargo now and the wife is an NDSU alumni. I personally have no desire now nor had any after graduating from Tennessee to watch Vols football or continue my association with it due to the machine it had become with the internal workings of it's football program and the things that were done at all costs to maintain it in that way.

This another reason why the Montana and Dakota schools are very different. A lot of kids that end up at these public FCS schools often aren't there by choice. Instead, they didn't get into their first love, state "U", and have to rely on their safety school. How many Minot, MN-Moorhead and Jamestown grads are buying NDSU tickets? Even though they have their "own" school their love and passion never leaves for Tennessee, Georgia, Ohio State, Illinois, Purdue, Arizona, UCLA, Washington etc. They get ribbed by family members etc and get shut down when talking "D2" football. Hell, I'm a Temple alum and sports fan so I know what it's like dealing with Penn State. Even as a TU grad, I will never ever stop supporting ND/Lehigh football and Syracuse basketball. That's ingrained in me from my youth. If I start talking Owl football at a social function most people would consider it a form of sarcasm.

When I think of North Dakota sports I think of UND hockey and NDSU football. That is what defines those two schools and the sports culture in the state. They are great rallying points for civic pride for the alums and citizens of those towns and states. I see it in Montana with the 'Griz and Bobcats. You're originally from NJ while I'm from PA.....

[Hammerhead]

In 2009, the Bison finished 3-8 and still managed to draw 14K to 15K at home games. My in-laws who retired down in Texas a few years ago have been Gopher fans since they were kids. Now my father-in-law always wants to know when the Bison are on TV and my mother-in-law wants us to text updates during the games while she's at work.



Hard to say as we havent had too many of those type of seasons. But lets be honest it kind of assinine to use our max attendance and 3-5 wins in the same sentence.

[BisonFan02]

This another reason why the Montana and Dakota schools are very different. A lot of kids that end up at these public FCS schools often aren't there by choice. Instead, they didn't get into their first love, state "U", and have to rely on their safety school. How many Minot, MN-Moorhead and Jamestown grads are buying NDSU tickets? Even though they have their "own" school their love and passion never leaves for Tennessee, Georgia, Ohio State, Illinois, Purdue, Arizona, UCLA, Washington etc. They get ribbed by family members etc and get shut down when talking "D2" football. Hell, I'm a Temple alum and sports fan so I know what it's like dealing with Penn State. Even as a TU grad, I will never ever stop supporting ND/Lehigh football and Syracuse basketball. That's ingrained in me from my youth. If I start talking Owl football at a social function most people would consider it a form of sarcasm.

When I think of North Dakota sports I think of UND hockey and NDSU football. That is what defines those two schools and the sports culture in the state. They are great rallying points for civic pride for the alums and citizens of those towns and states. I see it in Montana with the 'Griz and Bobcats. You're originally from NJ while I'm from PA.....

Haha! Don't lump my 4 year/Private Jamestown education with those other two POS schools! xshakefistx

[344Johnson]

Or maybe try to figure out why the potential fans in the stands who went to your own school(alumni) would rather go watch a FBS school that they didn't even attend. Or try figuring out why some schools like NDSU are able to get their fans to come from hundreds of miles away but your school can't get people to walk across the street. NDSU fans put a huge effort no matter what the weekend is or when the game was announced to making it to the games. Schools like UNH have trouble being the biggest game on their own campus. Either way, NDSU took the time and made a huge conscious effort to build up the fan base it has, it did not just fall into their lap. The number of former players and alumni that invest their time and effort pays off, get yours to do the same. You need to educate fans about your product to get them to come see it, NDSU has billboards for Bison football games in Minneapolis/St Paul (250 miles away), does your school (or any others for that matter)do that. You can't just put up a Facebook page and expect 15K+ fans to come knocking on your door and handing you money.

Geography plays a huge role. If UND was in the B1G with a 40-50,000 stadium, NDSU would be happy to get 10K at a game. If Notre Dame was in Bismarck, NDSU would be happy with 5-10K. People gravitate towards FBS football.

I know plenty of relatives who went to either NDSU or UND who do not really follow the teams because they have FBS teams they have followed since childhood.


Haha! Don't lump my 4 year/Private Jamestown education with those other two POS schools! xshakefistx

Yes. Lump it in. Jamestown ****ing sucks.

[BisonFan02]

Yes. Lump it in. Jamestown HS ****ing sucks.

FIFY....

[344Johnson]

FIFY....

Basically a prep school for Jamestown College... At least at this point. Pretty sure they offered all of us "scholarships" to come play sports there or do some choir nonsense.

Just ribbing ya. The town/school isn't THAT bad...... Sometimes.

[BisonFan02]

Basically a prep school for Jamestown College... At least at this point. Pretty sure they offered all of us "scholarships" to come play sports there or do some choir nonsense.

Just ribbing ya. The town/school isn't THAT bad...... Sometimes.

A fairly poor one then....since most JHS grads I went to school with failed out after the first semester. :D Jamestown has a lot more in common with Mary and Concordia (Moorhead) then they do the small state schools in ND (Minot, Valley City, Mayville...etc)...that was the point.

/end thread drift

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

This another reason why the Montana and Dakota schools are very different. A lot of kids that end up at these public FCS schools often aren't there by choice. Instead, they didn't get into their first love, state "U", and have to rely on their safety school. How many Minot, MN-Moorhead and Jamestown grads are buying NDSU tickets? Even though they have their "own" school their love and passion never leaves for Tennessee, Georgia, Ohio State, Illinois, Purdue, Arizona, UCLA, Washington etc. They get ribbed by family members etc and get shut down when talking "D2" football. Hell, I'm a Temple alum and sports fan so I know what it's like dealing with Penn State. Even as a TU grad, I will never ever stop supporting ND/Lehigh football and Syracuse basketball. That's ingrained in me from my youth. If I start talking Owl football at a social function most people would consider it a form of sarcasm.

When I think of North Dakota sports I think of UND hockey and NDSU football. That is what defines those two schools and the sports culture in the state. They are great rallying points for civic pride for the alums and citizens of those towns and states. I see it in Montana with the 'Griz and Bobcats. You're originally from NJ while I'm from PA.....



Total opinion and nothing based in fact!

[Bisonoline]

This another reason why the Montana and Dakota schools are very different. A lot of kids that end up at these public FCS schools often aren't there by choice. Instead, they didn't get into their first love, state "U", and have to rely on their safety school. How many Minot, MN-Moorhead and Jamestown grads are buying NDSU tickets? Even though they have their "own" school their love and passion never leaves for Tennessee, Georgia, Ohio State, Illinois, Purdue, Arizona, UCLA, Washington etc. They get ribbed by family members etc and get shut down when talking "D2" football. Hell, I'm a Temple alum and sports fan so I know what it's like dealing with Penn State. Even as a TU grad, I will never ever stop supporting ND/Lehigh football and Syracuse basketball. That's ingrained in me from my youth. If I start talking Owl football at a social function most people would consider it a form of sarcasm.

When I think of North Dakota sports I think of UND hockey and NDSU football. That is what defines those two schools and the sports culture in the state. They are great rallying points for civic pride for the alums and citizens of those towns and states. I see it in Montana with the 'Griz and Bobcats. You're originally from NJ while I'm from PA.....

There are approx 3,300 FBS schollies given out a year. There are kids playing FBS that didnt get there dream school. So you can say the majority of college players arent playing for their dream school. What your point is I have no idea.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

There are approx 3,300 FBS schollies given out a year. There are kids playing FBS that didnt get there dream school. So you can say the majority of college players arent playing for their dream school. What your point is I have no idea.

I was referring to the general student population....

[Bisonoline]

I was referring to the general student population....

Well thats a horse of a different color isnt it.:D

[clenz]

I was referring to the general student population....
Because these poor non patriot and ivy schools suck so much no one would ever go to them by choice. ...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

In terms of building a strong bond between the flagship (UNH) and the general populace, I've always felt that the structure of the media has had a negative impact. NH has one television network affiliate (Ch 9 WMUR) and one statewide newspaper (Manchester Union Leader). Southern NH where the bulk of people live has always for the major networks watched Boston television stations while Northern NH tends to watch Maine (Portland/Bangor) television. UNH is way down the pecking order for coverage with the Boston stations and obviously the Black Bears are going to get the coverage on the Maine stations. I have friends up in the Mt. Washington Valley with no ties to any local school who had become interested in Black Bear sports because they saw all the Cindy Bloggett coverage on TV. They got no UNH coverage despite living in NH. I think I've purged that UMaine interest out of their system by now (:D), but they have to go out of their way to follow UNH.

When I was in school, we always read a Boston newspaper. And in fact the Union Leader has always had an adversarial relationship with UNH and if anything erodes any effort to build a "your university" type bond. They rarely send a reporter to away games. This year for the game at Maine, they had a reporter for the Bangor Daily News write an article for them! :( So any newspaper coverage falls upon the small town newspapers. Most of them are lucky to still be in business so they sure aren't sending a reporter to road games. And other than the papers in Portsmouth, Dover and Concord, I'm not sure they consistently send a reporter to the home games.

There are many, many dynamics in the Northeast that only result in people from other parts of the country to make ASSumptions about why colleges don't have followings like schools down South and out West. And one of the biggest is thinking because places are so close that it is easy to travel. My sister and I always joke because we talk about how long it takes to drive between places rather than how many miles apart they are! Unlike the rest of the country, it will take more minutes than the miles involved. I have a 2:40 drive from my home to UNH and if I want to attend a Friday evening athletic event, I have to leave by 1:30 for a 7:00 event to avoid rush hour traffic jams! I'm wondering if Chattanoogamocs made kickoff Friday night after leaving Logan around 6:15, normally a 1:15 trip. You add fog, rain, snow, etc. into the mix and most people are just going to say "F' it" and stay home. Not everyone is as die hard as I am!! xrotatehx :D

[Sader87]

Good point on the UNH media demographics....Holy Cross is sort of in the same boat in that though it resides in the 2nd largest city in New England (Worceter, MA about 180,000 pop.) the city falls under the Boston media market and thus HC has to compete with those Boston-area schools/pro teams for TV coverage/mentions.

Greatah Worcester fell more and more undah the "Boston umbrella" in the 1980s to the present with the creation of highways like 495 that made CMass more of a Greatah Boston enclave rather than a Greatah Wisstah one.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Because these poor non patriot and ivy schools suck so much no one would ever go to them by choice. ...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I didn't go to state "U" either. Granted, in some states there's a different set up. My point is most kids don't go up dreaming about going to GVSU or Wayne State in Michigan or SHSU/SFA in Texas. A lot of students never form a close bond with their alma mater at the second tier state schools.

[VUCats02]

I would love for all of these outside Philly people to come visit Philadelphia for a couple weeks, and expose yourself to the city's sports culture, because without doing that, they will never understand. It's all about culture, so how can you debate something like this if you don't even understand what that culture is? NDSU's football attendance / student population ratio is somewhere between 1.5:1 and 1:1. Nova's ratio is about 1:1...not too far off. There are probably 12-13 colleges within a 20 mile radius of Villanova's campus, and that is not an exaggeration whatsoever. I don't even know the exact number because there are so many.

Nova basketball draws a ton of people. They will be on FOX this Saturday at 1:00 eastern time for anyone interested in checking out what the attendance will be like. They are also scheduled to be on FOX at least 4 more times this season. Having a sports team on a broadcast channel with two of the best broadcasters in the history of a sport (Gus Johnson and Bill Raftery) is something Nova is prideful of. They were advertising the Nova basketball game this weekend during the Seahawks 49ers game last week. I understand that nobody will ever cut Nova slack for their football attendance numbers, but at least realize to yourself you don't understand the culture of the area. When you have that kind of national recognition for one sport, and the complete opposite for another sport, interest is hard to come by.

[runmymouth]

And I thought when we (SHSU) drew 10-12k fans for a playoff game was bad. I know SHSU has a marked advantaged moving forward as the 2nd or 3rd most well funded university over the next couple of years. I do like the improvements we have been making for our stadium lately though. Nice seats, an awesome tailgate expereience and winning is really making it a lot of fun to attend games. I still get to attend an A&M game (wife went there) every year but it is nice to not pay an arm and a leg for a great game. I love FCS football and hope we don't get dragged up to Sunbelt or C-USA (Texas State (SWT or Texas State San Marcos for some of you) is also a part of our university system). I wish we could have hosted more of the games but our early season losses made us the unseeded team.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Good point on the UNH media demographics....Holy Cross is sort of in the same boat in that though it resides in the 2nd largest city in New England (Worceter, MA about 180,000 pop.) the city falls under the Boston media market and thus HC has to compete with those Boston-area schools/pro teams for TV coverage/mentions.

Greatah Worcester fell more and more undah the "Boston umbrella" in the 1980s to the present with the creation of highways like 495 that made CMass more of a Greatah Boston enclave rather than a Greatah Wisstah one.

And there are so many examples of this in the Northeast. UMass never got any love from the Boston media where most of their alumni live. Central CT, Yale and Sacred Heart get no love in CT where it's all Husky all the time. Lafayette and Lehigh probably don't get much pub outside their valleys. Providence is more into the Friars than the URI Rams even though PC doesn't even play football. Good luck to Bryant cracking that nut. Stony Brook may be in NY but they might as well be on the other side of the Catskills for the blip they make on the NYC radar. Etc., etc., etc.

And while there is no big FBS program that steals fans other than Penn State, Joe Sixpack has succumbed to the ESPN propaganda that the only thing worth watching is P5 football. So they stay home in their recliner and watch TV. Fifty years ago Greatah Wisstah went to watch HC, Greater New Haven went to Yale Bowl, people in Boston went to Nickerson, Parsons and Harvard. Many even took the ride out to McGuirk or up to Cowell.

I was sitting at a bar outside Hartford a week ago Sunday night having a pizza after returning from Durham. One of the guys who works there has a sister at UNH so we always talk. There was another guy at the bar my age who worked at UConn with their band when they were in the Yankee Conference. He heard us talking about the UNH win over Fordham then asked if it was D3! I was so disgusted with him that when I held up one finger to tell him it was D-I, he almost got the middle finger. The frickin guy knew better!! He knew all about UNH, UMass, URI, Maine and UConn's legacy. These people get dumbed down by ESPN that they can't even think first!! xrotatehx :(

[IBleedYellow]

I'd think SHSU is at an advantage being I'm Texas.... You mofos love you some football down there.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator

[runmymouth]

That is true we do love us some football. I wish I could make that trip this weekend up to the Fargo Dome. I want to go to a game there sometime.

[citdog]

I don't buy that for a second.
You don't buy it??? I guess it must be some other dayton in the dayton rule.

[citdog]

I would love for all of these outside Philly people to come visit Philadelphia for a couple weeksy.

no thanks too many people getting smacked in the head with bricks while walking down the street

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

no thanks too many people getting smacked in the head with bricks while walking down the street

The one thing I liked about Temple was its location helped eliminate drunktards. If you got hammered and started wondering like a fool there's a chance you might get robbed or worse. Owell, use better judgment. Street smarts and common sense were needed to make it in North Philly xnodx

BTW, Villanova is not located in Philadelphia rather a very upscale neighborhood....

[UNDOregon]

One of the assumptions that people seem to be making in this thread is that it is easy for NDSU because NDSU is educating North Dakotans, who grew up seeing a heavy dose of NDSU and therefore will naturally, inevitably be NDSU fans. But, there are declining numbers of high schools and high school students in North Dakota. The oil fields in Western ND are creating population explosions in Williston and Dickinson, but it remains to be seen if those population increases will raise the total high school enrollments for the state as a whole, and, therefore, the potential new freshmen at ND colleges. Beginning many decades ago, NDSU and UND offered tuition breaks and reciprocity with about 20 states in the Midwest and West Coast. ND colleges have to work hard to be competitive in enrolling students, while other colleges and universities do not. The University of Oregon does not have any type of tuition reciprocity with any states but has thousands of Californians paying out-of-state tuition. U of O is not quite the best comparison to NDSU, but I mention it as a way to get you to think about whether your public school gives tuition breaks to students from your neighboring states, or whether your school relies on mostly in-state students. The assumption there being that a school, especially a flagship, with mostly in-state students should have a ready-made, engaged fan base.

Californians can pay their reduced tuition at ND colleges and still pay less than for some California schools. These tuition breaks also help in recruiting athletes to ND. Look at NDSU's student population: 38 % from North Dakota and 55 % from Minnesota. NDSU is educating Minnesotans, who are fans of University of Minnesota according to the assumptions being made here. NDSU must be converting at least some of those U of M fans which is difficult to do. I would guess that it has been at least 20 years since North Dakota residents made up more than 50 % of the student population at NDSU. I do not know if I have these numbers correct but NDSU fans can help or correct.

It is true that Bison football is the biggest sport in Fargo. But, how do you explain that NDSU is creating a fan base from a student population of Minnesotans? With so many out-of-state students, it seems NDSU should also have problems like other schools in getting students engaged in campus life and football games. NDSU is doing way more than sitting back and relying on ND resident students to be the fan base.

Sorry for the long post. I usually don't write anything short, such as a small, 16-page, UAB football death report.

[VUCats02]

The one thing I liked about Temple was its location helped eliminate drunktards. If you got hammered and started wondering like a fool there's a chance you might get robbed or worse. Owell, use better judgment. Street smarts and common sense were needed to make it in North Philly xnodx

BTW, Villanova is not located in Philadelphia rather a very upscale neighborhood....

People refer to west Chester and places 30 miles away from philly, as Philly. When nova plays on campus games TV broadcasters show the philly skyline coming out of commercial break. Obviously the main line isn't Philly but you can even understand somewhat the sports culture there just by listening to sports radio and reading newspapers. Would be a less dangerous way to experience some culture. There are great parts of the city though, but I'm not talking about where temple is.