CASE MADE... Toreros, City of San Diego ready for Playoffs

[Torero Tradition]

the loss will hurt monmouth... if USD would have lost one game this year they wouldn't even be in consideration.

[cosmo here]

the loss will hurt monmouth... if USD would have lost one game this year they wouldn't even be in consideration.

the two non-DI games will hurt San Diego. without either of them they would be in consideration. Monmouth played an all Division I-AA schedule.

[Go...gate]

the two non-DI games will hurt San Diego. without either of them they would be in consideration. Monmouth played an all Division I-AA schedule.

Monmouth and USD are also conference champions.

Again, I hope both of then get in. Let's resolve these disputes where they should be resolved - on the gridiron.

[BeauFoster]

Furman beat App State. :eyebrow:


He said that only conference champs should get into the playoffs. I was pointing out to him how well a non-conference champ did last year. It wasn't knock on Furman, it was actually (gasp...can't believe I typed it) a compliment :smiley_wi

[*****]

... Let's resolve these disputes where they should be resolved - on the gridiron.Should we slope the field based on commitment to football? You know it's not a level field. Some pay a little, some pay more and some pay the most.

[Go...gate]

Should we slope the field based on commitment to football? You know it's not a level field. Some pay a little, some pay more and some pay the most.

I know and understand. However, I cling to the notion that a conference championship means something.

[UMass922]

I know and understand. However, I cling to the notion that a conference championship means something.

A conference championship does indeed mean something: for USD, as for Monmouth, it means a berth in the Gridiron Classic.

[Peems]

not when the conference isnt as pwerful as other conferences. take the winner of the big 10 versus the winner of the sun belt. what conference a team is in matters.

[CopperCat]

I appreciate your humor, that was a good one :smiley_wi

Out of curiosity, what is your take on the Toreros. You think they are a playoff caliber team?

Honestly, how many times do we have to do this? Luckily this will all be over in a week.

[JohnStOnge]

Y'all know I'd like to see San Diego in the playoffs but...seriously..."case made" because they blew out Dayton?

The case, to the extent that it was made, was made during the game against Yale. If San Diego hadn't played that game, it would have no shot. I'm sorry, but blowing out Dayton really, in and of itself, doesn't tell people all that much. You're talking about a team that's gone 4 - 6 against a schedule Sagarin has rated 102nd among I-AA squads.

PLEASE.

I like the placement of Montana in the Great West Conference too.

[Torero Tradition]

I know and understand. However, I cling to the notion that a conference championship means something.

What does it take for a conference to get an auto-bid?
USD and Monmouth could both make the playoffs this year....

[danefan]

What does it take for a conference to get an auto-bid?
USD and Monmouth could both make the playoffs this year....

The 8 auto-bids are reevaluated on a yearly basis. A conference must apply each year. The NEC has applied every year in the recent past and has been denied. There are certain criteria that the conference must meet to be eligible to apply (ie: more than 6 teams, etc... I'm sure Ralph knows more the details).

[UAalum72]

What does it take for a conference to get an auto-bid?
USD and Monmouth could both make the playoffs this year....
The PFL is a recognzied I-AA conference; all it has to do is apply for a bid (which it's never done), then have the committee decide it's more worthy than one of the old eight conferences.

[gophoenix]

What does it take for a conference to get an auto-bid?

The NCAA guidelines for the I-AA playoffs say that only half the field can be automatic-qualifiers. The Ivy and SWAC opt-out. So that leaves everyone except the MAAC, Great West and Big South with the chance for one (as you have to have the same 6 full D-I schools capable of making the playoffs for two consecutive years to qualify).

So every year, technically, the Pioneer and NEC can get one, except that the 8 automatic bids will be given based on conference strength compared to the others. The last three have always typically been the OVC, Patriot and MEAC with the others far below those three.

Again, if the Pioneer wants to compete with the rest of us (and NEC) then those schools needs to start scheduling other teams from typical I-AA conferences for most OOC games on a yearly basis instead of playing each other and keeping the overall conference strength down.

And this includes schools like CCSU, Monmouth, San Deigo, Davidson or any other of those types of schools scheduling the rest of us rather than the crappy schedule that YOU chose and then whine to the rest of us about not getting respect.

Coastal, Liberty, Western Kentucky, Samford, Elon, Cal Poly and Wofford have all been snubbed in the past 8 years while playing a schedule that makes San Diego's look like a joke.

You have no one to blame but yourself for your scheduling and it should be counted against you.

Maybe a case should be made to expand the playoffs to 24 teams. Give the top eight byes, and add 8 other teams which would give the NEC and Pioneer and automatic bid and prepares for the day when the Great West and Big South are ready. Plus allows another 4-6 at large bids.

[UAalum72]

Yale's loss this weekend also tarnishes USD's only OOC D-I win.

[Torero Tradition]

I hope you are not too disappointed next Sunday when San Diego is sitting on the sidelines. A playoff berth isn't going to happen for the Toreros (that's what my sources are telling me). There will be four-loss team that make it before San Diego. Better start preparing for the Gridiron Classic.

I'm getting a different story... and I find it hard to believe they have already made a decision to not let USD in? There is still a week to be played and they would be making comments like that? I don't think so :twocents:

[Torero Tradition]

I don't think the Yale loss tarnishes anything. Anyone who knows football knows that the IVY is a good league this year that is deep. They lost a conference game and are still tied for first in the conference.

On the point of the Auto bids... how will this affect the Great West conference when all those teams are playoff eligible?

[CopperCat]

If you read the bottom of the article it mentions some great quarterbacks who have come from the I-AA ranks...

THESE QBs MADE THE JUMP
Division 1-AA quarterbacks who made it in the NFL:

Phil Simms (Morehead State) – New Yorkers booed when the Giants made the future Super Bowl MVP their 1979 first-round draft pick.

Doug Williams (Grambling State) – Named MVP of Super Bowl XXII in San Diego, throwing for a then-record 340 yards in the Redskins' 42-10 blowout of Denver.

Rich Gannon (Delaware) – Eighteen-year vet's best numbers came late in his career with Raiders. Only Blue Hen to play in a Super Bowl.

Kurt Warner (Northern Iowa) – Stocked groceries and played in the Arena League before directing the Rams' “Greatest Show on Turf.”

Steve McNair (Alcorn State) – Rugged Ravens quarterback can still play come crunch time, as Chargers discovered.

Tony Romo (Eastern Illinois) – Former Payton Award winner has unseated Drew Bledsoe at Dallas.

Your point?

[Georgia Griz]

Look, we all know that their schedule is horrible, but if they go undefeated does a #16 team with several losses really have an argument? Maybe, I'm going crazy. All I know is that San Diego needs to come to Missoula in the first round. Then, if they win, they proved us all wrong. If they lose, all of this silly talk about USD goes away until next year. Oh my God, I think that I am contributing to the problem myself. Yes, I am going crazy.

[CollegeObserver]

Looking forward to seeing you folks in West Long Branch, NJ on 12/2/06. It's beautiful out here. You'll enjoy the visit, I'm sure. Congrats on making the bowl game!

[Torero Tradition]

Well.... there are some better reasons as to why USD should be in the playoffs than the one's you gave. But I do agree with your assessment... why not

[Torero Tradition]

All those quarterbacks played at I-AA schools and went on to be successful in the NFL. Perhaps Johnson will add his name to that list someday.

[youwouldno]

This is stupid. Shame on georgia griz for starting this thread.

[McNeeserocket]

Look, we all know that their schedule is horrible, but if they go undefeated does a #16 team with several losses really have an argument? Maybe, I'm going crazy. All I know is that San Diego needs to come to Missoula in the first round. Then, if they win, they proved us all wrong. If they lose, all of this silly talk about USD goes away until next year. Oh my God, I think that I am contributing to the problem myself. Yes, I am going crazy.

I have to agree with you. San Diego deserves a playoff berth. Let them play a game and see how their team stacks up to the other playoff teams.

[Torero Tradition]

Thanks on the congrats. If we don't make the playoffs we will be in the Bowl game. Currently, we have bigger plans and are gearing up for the playoffs. Thanks for your support. I-AA football all the way!

[Torero Tradition]

From what folks in the coaching ranks and administration are hearing at USD... they definitely feel there is a strong chance USD is in, and they are planning accordingly. Talk to some USD folks on I-AA waves. Get Harbaugh on there and the A.D.

[Georgia Griz]

Well.... there are some better reasons as to why USD should be in the playoffs than the one's you gave. But I do agree with your assessment... why not

No, really Tradition, there are no other reasons. You deserve it if you go undefeated, for the simple fact no one knows who you can or cannot beat. That's it. Your schedule is awful. Yale is not a quality win. Your conference does not have an autobid for a reason.

[youwouldno]

Your plans probably do not coincide with the plans of the selection committee. Good luck against Monmouth.

[youwouldno]

One real game is not good enough for the playoffs. The committee is going to decide the same thing.

[Guard Dawg]

This is going to be very interesting to hear what the committee has to say about San Diego and what happens in the selection process.

[Georgia Griz]

This is stupid. Shame on georgia griz for starting this thread.

Yes, Yes. I know. But can you imagine the U. of San Diego propaganda that will be posted on this website if they go undefeated and don't make the playoffs. Just let them in and let them do their thing.

[Guard Dawg]

USD has played 10 real games. I can even confirm that.

[Torero Tradition]

No, really Tradition, there are no other reasons. You deserve it if you go undefeated, for the simple fact no one knows who you can or cannot beat. That's it. Your schedule is awful. Yale is not a quality win. Your conference does not have an autobid for a reason.

USD is indicated by the GPI as being a playoff team, they are ranked in all the polls for I-AA football... they are undefeated. They have won 18 games in a row.

[youwouldno]

Not 'real' for the purposes of the I-AA playoffs.

I bet if Northern Colorado played their local YMCA 11 times, UNC would win all 11. Would that get them into the playoffs?

[bkrownd]

I wanna believe! ($1)

[rokamortis]

I'm on the fence for USD.

Part of me wants to see USD in the playoffs to see how good they really are, they may surprise us. But the other side doesn't feel it is fair to everyone else that plays by the established rules. Just because they go undefeated doesn't mean they deserve a playoff bid. If that were the case everyone would schedule down.

The criteria:
The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket;
Based on polls and other indicators USD is certainly considered a top I-AA right now.

The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, less than seven Division I wins will place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;
Nice record, bad schedule. Likely a wash.

The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents;
This could be USD's nail in the coffin as they played 2 sub DI games.

[Stang Fever]

The NCAA guidelines for the I-AA playoffs say that only half the field can be automatic-qualifiers. The Ivy and SWAC opt-out. So that leaves everyone except the MAAC, Great West and Big South with the chance for one (as you have to have the same 6 full D-I schools capable of making the playoffs for two consecutive years to qualify).

So every year, technically, the Pioneer and NEC can get one, except that the 8 automatic bids will be given based on conference strength compared to the others. The last three have always typically been the OVC, Patriot and MEAC with the others far below those three.

Again, if the Pioneer wants to compete with the rest of us (and NEC) then those schools needs to start scheduling other teams from typical I-AA conferences for most OOC games on a yearly basis instead of playing each other and keeping the overall conference strength down.

And this includes schools like CCSU, Monmouth, San Deigo, Davidson or any other of those types of schools scheduling the rest of us rather than the crappy schedule that YOU chose and then whine to the rest of us about not getting respect.

Coastal, Liberty, Western Kentucky, Samford, Elon, Cal Poly and Wofford have all been snubbed in the past 8 years while playing a schedule that makes San Diego's look like a joke.

You have no one to blame but yourself for your scheduling and it should be counted against you.

Maybe a case should be made to expand the playoffs to 24 teams. Give the top eight byes, and add 8 other teams which would give the NEC and Pioneer and automatic bid and prepares for the day when the Great West and Big South are ready. Plus allows another 4-6 at large bids.

I second this. What gets me is how last year USD was 10-1 with the same weak ass schedule. and this year they add another cupcake to the schedule in Dixie St (cause stop me if i am wrong they played Azusa Pacific last year) to make the schedule even worse and since they go 10-0think that they should be in the playoffs this year. what is so different in this year the last year.

IF USD makes the playoffs it will set off a chain reaction in the rest of the I-AA world. teams for years have been left out based on weak schedules that are better then this years USD and have made a point to upgrade the schedule since. Then why would any team schedule any hard games, just play Dixie St, Azusa Pacific and there conference and if you do good there. you are in.

USD has 10 wins two of which are not even Div I football. so actuallly its 8wins with one of them being Yale. so the rest of the seven victories are against WHO???? cream puffs sorry but that doesnt get it done. How they have moved up in the polls every week after beating nobody still gets me.

and how dare someone make a thread saying Case Proven or something like that. Like knock out Dayton was beating App st, or Montana get the heck out of here. Just proved that you are to good to be playing those sorry teams. Only point that was proven there. The USD posters keep thinking people have a problem with them being NON-Schollie and thats not it. People have a problem with the schedule

[Georgia Griz]

USD is indicated by the GPI as being a playoff team, they are ranked in all the polls for I-AA football... they are undefeated. They have won 18 games in a row.

Except for being undefeated, the rest of that just doesn't cut it with me or likely the Selection Committee. And I don't think that the GPI "indicates" playoff teams. Consulted in certain circumstances, maybe. "Indicates", I don't think so. But, I do hope you make it in with an undefeated record.

[youwouldno]

The good news for us is that the committee is going to be thinking the exact same thing. You can't reward teams that don't play anyone.

[youwouldno]

You just want an easy first round game.

[Georgia Griz]

You just want an easy first round game.

Doesn't everybody?:D

[Torero Tradition]

http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/usd/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/Playoff

[Torero Tradition]

http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/usd/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/Playoff

[Torero Tradition]

http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/usd/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/Playoff

[youwouldno]

Stop spamming the boards, jackass. Don't post the same link in every thread you can find.

[Torero Tradition]

Not only does USD have one of the best QB's in the nation.... they also have one of the top coaching staffs. USD has proven they should be in the playoffs this year. I hope the committee is fair and honest.

http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/usd/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/Playoff

[rokamortis]

http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/usd/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/Playoff

Wow. They are definitely stretching on some of those reasons.

[bkrownd]

IF USD makes the playoffs it will set off a chain reaction in the rest of the I-AA world. teams for years have been left out based on weak schedules that are better then this years USD and have made a point to upgrade the schedule since. Then why would any team schedule any hard games, just play Dixie St, Azusa Pacific and there conference and if you do good there. you are in.


Oooop - here comes the ridiculous scare-mongering! The situation is there are so many weak "bubble" teams this year who haven't done anything more to deserve the playoffs than USD, that it has opened up a rare opportunity for them. Quit trying to construct a "slippery slope" where none exists.

[rokamortis]

I hope the committee is fair and honest.


We all do :smiley_wi

[McNeese75]

http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/usd/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/Playoff

Do you also do advertisements for Viagra and dating services????;)

[placidlakegriz]

Not only does USD have one of the best QB's in the nation.... they also have one of the top coaching staffs. USD has proven they should be in the playoffs this year. I hope the committee is fair and honest.

http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/usd/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/Playoff

So do I, there is no way USD should be in.

[Stang Fever]

Oooop - here comes the ridiculous scare-mongering! The situation is there are so many weak "bubble" teams this year who haven't done anything more to deserve the playoffs than USD, that it has opened up a rare opportunity for them. Quit trying to construct a "slippery slope" where none exists.


Now that I will agree on. this year does make it easier for USD to make a case. but for USD to say that the made a case i would say that. since there was such a down year it makes there case a little eaiser. but they havent proven anything on the field. IF it wasnt so many teams with 3 and 4 losses, there would be no way USD would make it in. on normal years

[UMass922]

http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/usd/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/Playoff

Hmm, up to this point I've been skeptical of San Diego's arguments for a playoff berth, but this thing says that their defense is "in your face" . . . Now I might just have to change my mind about the Toreros!

[Stang Fever]

I will no LONGER POST ON A USD THREAD UNTIL NEXT SUNDAY.

TO either vent my fraustration or say I told you so.


See you next sunday.

[SDFan]

I guess that Furman didn't belong last year since they were beaten by the SoCon champs. They only made it to the semifinals of the tourney. Please think before you type:)

Please think before you type. See, it's people like you who create animosity.

I said that a conference champion should get in before a third place team. And they still should. And your example blows because Furman didn't win the national championship did they?

I'm not saying USD is going to win the national championship, but they should have the opportunity before a team that finishes third or fourth in their league.

There's a lot more that i'm not going to say.

[SDFan]

I hope you are not too disappointed next Sunday when San Diego is sitting on the sidelines. A playoff berth isn't going to happen for the Toreros (that's what my sources are telling me). There will be four-loss team that make it before San Diego. Better start preparing for the Gridiron Classic.

If SD doesn't make the playoffs, they play UC Davis.

So they won't be sitting on the sidelines. Well, their non-starters will, but they will be playing the 25th regardless of the comitee's decision.


He said that only conference champs should get into the playoffs. I was pointing out to him how well a non-conference champ did last year. It wasn't knock on Furman, it was actually (gasp...can't believe I typed it) a compliment :smiley_wi

The more I read from you, the more I realize you can't read. Did you even read what I said. I never said only conference champs should get into the playoffs. Read first.

But, I guess I'm the one who should think before I post. At least I can read.

[siugrad99]

What is the benefit of playing tough teams in your non-conference if you can be USD and play little sisters of the poor and be considered for the playoffs ? I bet SIU wouldn't have played Indiana if they didn't get lots of $ of course :), but if SIU were to miss the playoffs to a USD team who's best win is YALE (Yawn) because they play a Gateway Conference Schedule and a 1A opponent then the system is just as flawed as the BCS. USD belongs in their championship game until they can play someone above a High School Schedule.

[Mr. C]

Yale's loss this weekend also tarnishes USD's only OOC D-I win.
Losing to a nationally-ranked Princeton team doesn't tarnish anything. Princeton is a very good team with a dynamic QB (Jeff Terrell) and a good defense. Have you seen any of these Ivy League teams this season? Having seen much of the league play, I think it is one of the most competitive leagues around this season. Penn played OT in three straight games for crying out loud. Yale is a very good team, but that being said, I don't think a win over Yale and a win over a decent Drake squad (I'll give San Diego credit there, too) doesn't earn you a playoff bid when the rest of your schedule is crap.

Funny how a 10-1 San Diego team last year generated no playoff discussion, while an 8-0 team this year (the record that the committee wil, consider) has the Toreros going nuts.

[DaGriz]

I'm on the fence for USD.

Part of me wants to see USD in the playoffs to see how good they really are, they may surprise us. But the other side doesn't feel it is fair to everyone else that plays by the established rules. Just because they go undefeated doesn't mean they deserve a playoff bid. If that were the case everyone would schedule down.

The criteria:
The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket;
Based on polls and other indicators USD is certainly considered a top I-AA right now.

The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, less than seven Division I wins will place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;
Nice record, bad schedule. Likely a wash.

The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents;
This could be USD's nail in the coffin as they played 2 sub DI games.

I agree, I can't make up my mind. That's why I like I-AA, playoffs. In I-A Rutgers and Boise St. could go undefeated and have no shot at a national championship because of strength of schedule. I-AA everybody has a shot, now we're saying San Diego doesn't because of strength of schedule. Then again, that's a weak schedule, And somebody more deserving should be in. If they go undefeated, I say let them in, but if they don't get in, then they'll have respect for next year. If Harbaugh is that good they shouldn't be a one year wonder.

[Torero Tradition]

Funny how a 10-1 San Diego team last year generated no playoff discussion, while an 8-0 team this year (the record that the committee wil, consider) has the Toreros going nuts.

Actually, if you were to look and see... there was talk of USD and the playoffs in several threads last year. Also, in this newspaper article there was talk of USD and the playoffs.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/college_football/20051120-9999-6s20toreros.html

FROM LAST YEAR...
The win was USD's 11th in 12 games this season, its 16th in its last 17 games going back to last year, and it clinched the school's first PFL championship. USD will find out today if it was good enough to earn a berth in the NCAA Division I-AA playoffs, and while that's a long shot, Harbaugh said he "absolutely feels we deserve it."

Even if the season is over, though, it will be remembered for a long time around Alcala Park.

"There's a laundry lists of firsts by these players," Harbaugh said, citing the 11 wins, the league title, a victory over an Ivy League school (Yale) and the No. 1 ranking in the national Mid-Major poll, among others.

"They have set the benchmark for all teams that follow," he said. "Anybody who puts on a USD helmet will be compared to the 2005 team."

[Mr. C]

I'm on the fence for USD.

Part of me wants to see USD in the playoffs to see how good they really are, they may surprise us. But the other side doesn't feel it is fair to everyone else that plays by the established rules. Just because they go undefeated doesn't mean they deserve a playoff bid. If that were the case everyone would schedule down.

The criteria:
The committee shall select the best teams available on a national at-large basis to complete the bracket;
Based on polls and other indicators USD is certainly considered a top I-AA right now.

The won-lost record of a team will be scrutinized to determine a team’s strength of schedule; however, less than seven Division I wins will place a team in jeopardy of not being selected;
Nice record, bad schedule. Likely a wash.

The committee may give more consideration to those teams that have played all Division I opponents;
This could be USD's nail in the coffin as they played 2 sub DI games.
Would you be on the fence if the committee picked San Diego instead of Coastal Carolina? Even after the Chants played a pretty good schedule and picked up some quality wins? CCU did the work it needed (assuming a win over Charleston Southern next Saturday) to get in. San Diego's schedule isn't up to par and that should keep them out, just as it has lower-level teams from other leagues in other years.

[Torero Tradition]

Hmm, up to this point I've been skeptical of San Diego's arguments for a playoff berth, but this thing says that their defense is "in your face" . . . Now I might just have to change my mind about the Toreros!

San Diego has an in your face defense to go along with the top ranked offense in I-AA :hurray:

[Mr. C]

What I was refering to is the FACT that the committee didn't have San Diego on its board for playoff consideration last year. The talk around here was not taken very seriously last year.


Actually, if you were to look and see... there was talk of USD and the playoffs in several threads last year. Also, in this newspaper article there was talk of USD and the playoffs.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/college_football/20051120-9999-6s20toreros.html

FROM LAST YEAR...
The win was USD's 11th in 12 games this season, its 16th in its last 17 games going back to last year, and it clinched the school's first PFL championship. USD will find out today if it was good enough to earn a berth in the NCAA Division I-AA playoffs, and while that's a long shot, Harbaugh said he "absolutely feels we deserve it."

Even if the season is over, though, it will be remembered for a long time around Alcala Park.

"There's a laundry lists of firsts by these players," Harbaugh said, citing the 11 wins, the league title, a victory over an Ivy League school (Yale) and the No. 1 ranking in the national Mid-Major poll, among others.

"They have set the benchmark for all teams that follow," he said. "Anybody who puts on a USD helmet will be compared to the 2005 team."

[Torero Tradition]

If Harbaugh is that good they shouldn't be a one year wonder.

Harbaugh isn't a one year wonder... USD has actually won 18 games in a row dating back to last season. They won the mid-major national championship.

[Torero Tradition]

So do I, there is no way USD should be in.

The nations #1 ranked offense, one of the top defenses... a payton award candidate QB, a coach up for the Eddie Robinson... undefeated.... ranked highly in all polls... indicated by GPI, won 18 games in a row....

yeah, i don't think they belong either.

[Mountaineer]

The nations #1 ranked offense, one of the top defenses... a payton award candidate QB, a coach up for the Eddie Robinson... undefeated.... ranked highly in all polls... indicated by GPI, won 18 games in a row....

yeah, i don't think they belong either.

You forgot "a schedule so poor and weak that most other schools would be embarrased being associated with it..much less begging for a playoff spot.." :thumbsup:

[*****]

this thread should be called ALL HOMERS FOR SAN DIEGO... sad...

[UMass922]

San Diego has an in your face defense to go along with the top ranked offense in I-AA :hurray:

How about special teams? Is San Diego's special teams totally in my face, too?

[grizband]

How about special teams? Is San Diego's special teams totally in my face, too?
San Diego....so hot right now.:hurray:

[rokamortis]

Would you be on the fence if the committee picked San Diego instead of Coastal Carolina? Even after the Chants played a pretty good schedule and picked up some quality wins? CCU did the work it needed (assuming a win over Charleston Southern next Saturday) to get in. San Diego's schedule isn't up to par and that should keep them out, just as it has lower-level teams from other leagues in other years.

Damn Mr. C - with the hard question. :D

After reading the argument I presented I'm more on the side that they shouldn't get an invite. Weak conference, weak schedule, no real quality wins, and 2 DII teams. If a 9-2 CCU team gets woofed but USD gets in - I'd not be very happy at all for the points you said. USD needs to play by the same rules as everyone else.

I know they love their stats - but alot of teams would be able to do the same playing the same schedule. I do think it is crazy that they are padding their stats on purpose and running up the score. Also, being undefeated is great, but that itself isn't one of the criteria for getting into the playoffs.

[lucchesicourt]

If USD gets invited to the playoffs, then a precedent is set. You can now schedule a bunch of 1AA patsies, and be selected, providing you have no losses. Hmm, if UCD goes independent (should the GWFC fold) I could see them in the playoffs every year, as long as they followthe same road as USD.
I guess I should be on USD's side, right? But, I am not.
As for how good USD is, no one knows. Are they playoff caliber? Again, no one knows. Should a team be invited to the playoffs only because no one knows how good they are? Or should ALL undefeated teams be in the playoffs as long as they have 7 D1 wins?
I am sure the committee has been faced with these questions before, and I am sure they will take past history into their decision. For, that reason alone, I think they are left out.

[BeauFoster]

Look, the way i see it, should a third place in league get in over SD?

Personally i say no, becaue that league's champion already beat them.

In no way am i saying San Diego has a hard enough schedule though, but that's the way I view it. I'm old school in that regards, like the old tourney used to be- had to win confrence.


Ok

[gophoenix]

Look, the way i see it, should a third place in league get in over SD?

Why not, a third place team from another league has a schedule that makes the USD schedule look like a complete joke. I am sorry, it's the truth. You guys could have played anyone you wanted for OOC games. But you chose a middle of the pack team from a league that doesn't participate in the playoffs and two bad sub-DI teams.

I mean, playing Murray St, Western Carolina, NC A&T, Savannah State or any number of other of the bad scholarship teams this year would have been an improvement.

I want the rest of you to look at this. As much as you picked on Elon fans years ago and Coastal fans last year for "whining" about respect and not making the playoffs, take note of this San Diego nonsense.

[monmouthhawk]

Why not, a third place team from another league has a schedule that makes the USD schedule look like a complete joke. I am sorry, it's the truth. You guys could have played anyone you wanted for OOC games. But you chose a middle of the pack team from a league that doesn't participate in the playoffs and two bad sub-DI teams.

I mean, playing Murray St, Western Carolina, NC A&T, Savannah State or any number of other of the bad scholarship teams this year would have been an improvement.

I want the rest of you to look at this. As much as you picked on Elon fans years ago and Coastal fans last year for "whining" about respect and not making the playoffs, take note of this San Diego nonsense.

In addition, why not Monmouth? At least they played a full I-AA schedule.

[UAalum72]

I bet if Northern Colorado played their local YMCA 11 times, UNC would win all 11. Would that get them into the playoffs?
Of course not. The YMCA teams aren't Division I. Eight of USD's opponents are.

[gophoenix]

Let us analyze things a bit:

USD and the Pioneer Conference overall have a schedule that makes you virtually incomparable to the rest of I-AA. Here's the entire Pioneer schedule for other scholarship I-AA schools (2-6 overall):
Davidson 19, VMI 20 (USD 50-21 over DC)
Dayton 28, Austin Peay 23
Drake 7, UNI 48 (USD 37, Drake 0)
Jacksonville 14, Gardner-Webb 49 (USD 38, Jacksonville 21)
Jacksonville 13, SE Louisianna 41
Morehead State 21, Austin Peay 23 (USD 44, Morehead St 21)
Morehead 6, WIU 31
San Diego 43, Yale 17

The Pioneer overall is also 10-8 against non-DI competition. So, let me get this straight, the Pioneer plays 18 non-conference games with non-DI opponents but only 8 with opponents from the 12 scholarship conferences???

And so let me make a comparison for you. Gardner-Webb scored more than USD while pulling starters earlier against Jacksonville. Gardner-Webb also lost to UT-Martin 35-9 and Appalachian 41-6 who are what we call playoff caliber teams this year.

Also, I just looked at some box scores. And where schools like UNI, WIU etc pulled starters during the game, it looks like USD has left starters in to run scores up higher than they would have been for the rest of us. No wonder they've been killing the competition. Sure, they're better than everyone in the Pioneer, but I wouldn't pick USD any higher than 7th in the SoCon in 12th in the A-10.

Sure, Elon could have beaten A&T 70-0, but we pulled starters early in the second half. So is running up the score the way to get respect?

The moral of the story. You'll get a playoff bid and respect when you guys schedule and beat teams from the SoCon, OVC, MEAC, SWAC, Big Sky, Big South, Patriot, Great West, A-10, Gateway and Southland consistently. not by beating of an Ivy in their first game of the year or by beating some unheardof sub-DI schools.

No amount of newspaper articles is going to get your respect, it only further makes you look like a joke. And the comments by your coach further that impression.

[Mr. C]

Pretty solid analysis, I would say.

[Mr. C]

If USD gets invited to the playoffs, then a precedent is set. You can now schedule a bunch of 1AA patsies, and be selected, providing you have no losses. Hmm, if UCD goes independent (should the GWFC fold) I could see them in the playoffs every year, as long as they followthe same road as USD.
I guess I should be on USD's side, right? But, I am not.
As for how good USD is, no one knows. Are they playoff caliber? Again, no one knows. Should a team be invited to the playoffs only because no one knows how good they are? Or should ALL undefeated teams be in the playoffs as long as they have 7 D1 wins?
I am sure the committee has been faced with these questions before, and I am sure they will take past history into their decision. For, that reason alone, I think they are left out.
You won't believe the carnage that would come from the major conferences if San Diego gets in. I am already hearing it from some of the movers and shakers in I-AA. They don't want that precident set by a team that played such a weak schedule. One prominent person, who will remain unnamed that I talked to last week said: "If they want to be considered for the playoffs, let them start offering scholarships." The committee might have to listen to Jim Harbaugh for a year or two more, if San Diego gets left out, but they will have to work with some of these other folks for years to come.

[liverquiver52]

Very good job! This states what everyone has been trying to say.

[Mr. C]

Damn Mr. C - with the hard question. :D

After reading the argument I presented I'm more on the side that they shouldn't get an invite. Weak conference, weak schedule, no real quality wins, and 2 DII teams. If a 9-2 CCU team gets woofed but USD gets in - I'd not be very happy at all for the points you said. USD needs to play by the same rules as everyone else.

I know they love their stats - but alot of teams would be able to do the same playing the same schedule. I do think it is crazy that they are padding their stats on purpose and running up the score. Also, being undefeated is great, but that itself isn't one of the criteria for getting into the playoffs.
I think Coastal Carolina is a playoff-caliber team because of the schedule the Chanticleers played. I don't think San Diego is a playoff team-caliber team because they have not played a competitive schedule. Savannah State has played a better schedule than San Diego for crying out loud.

[youwouldno]

Well the problem as you say is one of information. We know USD can beat I-AA non-scholarship teams pretty good. No one cares about that for the purposes of the I-AA playoffs. And we know they beat Yale. That's not really enough knowledge to make a very accurate determination.

But if they were really serious about the playoffs, they would have played a much harder OOC schedule. And even then, their conference is just so weak. If they want to participate in the postseason they should invest in the program.

[OldFootballGuy]

You won't believe the carnage that would come from the major conferences if San Diego gets in. I am already hearing it from some of the movers and shakers in I-AA. They don't want that precident set by a team that played such a weak schedule. One prominent person, who will remain unnamed that I talked to last week said: "If they want to be considered for the playoffs, let them start offering scholarships." The committee might have to listen to Jim Harbaugh for a year or two more, if San Diego gets left out, but they will have to work with some of these other folks for years to come.

The precedent will be bad for the whole division. Instead of seeing JMU/ASU early in the season, you'll see JMU play St. Peter's and ASU play Davidson. There will be no good OOC matchups scheduled because teams will know that they don't have to play anybody to get in, rather they just need to schedule a bunch of wins. If USD gets in with their schedule, I could see that speeding up the timetable of folks like Ga. Southern, JMU, ASU and Montana who have been discussing moving to 1-A.

[Mr. C]

Why not, a third place team from another league has a schedule that makes the USD schedule look like a complete joke. I am sorry, it's the truth. You guys could have played anyone you wanted for OOC games. But you chose a middle of the pack team from a league that doesn't participate in the playoffs and two bad sub-DI teams.

I mean, playing Murray St, Western Carolina, NC A&T, Savannah State or any number of other of the bad scholarship teams this year would have been an improvement.

I want the rest of you to look at this. As much as you picked on Elon fans years ago and Coastal fans last year for "whining" about respect and not making the playoffs, take note of this San Diego nonsense.
While I totally agree that San Diego's schedule is bad, can we quit with this stuff about Yale being "a middle of the pack" Ivy League school? Yale is tied for first place in a strong Ivy League and is a very good team. Of course, one tough game a season doesn't make.

[Mr. C]

I'm getting a different story... and I find it hard to believe they have already made a decision to not let USD in? There is still a week to be played and they would be making comments like that? I don't think so :twocents:
Who are you getting information from, seriously? The fact is that San Diego has already done as much as they can do to earn the committee's approval. I keep telling you that those comments last week about strength of schedule were extremely important. There is a reason those comments were being made. I've learned to listen closely to what committee members say in the weeks heading up to the playoffs.

[psc2445]

simple for me: they should not get in

[BeauFoster]

GP, that is some good information!

[Torero Tradition]

You won't believe the carnage that would come from the major conferences if San Diego gets in. I am already hearing it from some of the movers and shakers in I-AA. They don't want that precident set by a team that played such a weak schedule. One prominent person, who will remain unnamed that I talked to last week said: "If they want to be considered for the playoffs, let them start offering scholarships." The committee might have to listen to Jim Harbaugh for a year or two more, if San Diego gets left out, but they will have to work with some of these other folks for years to come.

That's what i like to hear... a prominent person proving they are anti-non scholly teams. To be in the playoffs= must having scholarships. LOL that is funny. It has nothing to do with scholarships.

[Torero Tradition]

USD isn't begging for a playoff spot. They proved it all on the field. Now it is up to the committee...

[Torero Tradition]

Now that I will agree on. this year does make it easier for USD to make a case. but for USD to say that the made a case i would say that. since there was such a down year it makes there case a little eaiser. but they havent proven anything on the field. IF it wasnt so many teams with 3 and 4 losses, there would be no way USD would make it in. on normal years

I think a big reason why USD gets in becuase of the Big Sky and Southland getting one bid, and Cal Poly not making it. Its just one of those years.

[gophoenix]

Thanks,

I just bothers me to hear all this garbage about deserving when so many other teams have put forth and lost with good schedules instead of coasting through with a bunch of cupcakes. And too many of us have been snubbed for trying to make it work. So these USD comments bother me just a little bit. They should bother the Liberty, Cal Poly and Coastal fans just as bad.

[LacesOut]

One team (or two/three?) seems to get left out of the playoffs nearly every season, right? So I see no reason why that won't happen again this year.

USD is not in, imo.

[Go Apps]

Monmouth has a better resume - SD no playoffs

[Black and Gold Express]

What's going to be funny is to see USD get their asses handed to them by UC-Davis and their Gridiron Classic opponent because they spent too much time focusing on their pipe dream of the playoffs. The justice in that would be brilliant.

[BillLuc1982]

I couldn't agree more, gophoenix!

[BillLuc1982]

What's going to be funny is to see USD get their asses handed to them by UC-Davis and their Gridiron Classic opponent because they spent too much time focusing on their pipe dream of the playoffs. The justice in that would be brilliant.

Or any real college team for that matter.

[putter]

One question. With their SOS so low, why is their GPI so high?

[Black and Gold Express]

Of course not. The YMCA teams aren't Division I. Eight of USD's opponents are.

In name only. In reality everyone knows that most mid-major I-AA's are the talent level of D-II and D-III squads at best. It's a completely different level of talent between the scholarship and non-scholly I-AA's, but everyone here is too afraid of hurting someone's feelings by telling the truth.

As good a lesson as it would be to see USD get obliterated by one of the legitimate playoff squads, the precedent that sets is too dangerous to allow. In the meantime, I will wager 99% of us here will be hardcore UC-Davis fans when that game against USD kicks off as it is scheduled to.

[YoUDeeMan]

Thanks for a good analysis, gophoenix.

But, as predictable as summer flies, you'll soon have a couple USD fans posting here that USD deserves a playoff spot due to their I-AA leading stats.

USD's team stats are as useful and accurate as the "First Class I-AA Ruler" avatar title Tostedos Tradition gets for his 618 (and counting) posts about USD. xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Black and Gold Express]

Or any real college team for that matter.

USD is a real college team, just not a legitimate playoff-caliber team.

[alumNEC]

GoPhoenix this may be one of the top 10 posts I have read this year... great information

[Black and Gold Express]

And the comments by your coach further that impression.

Great analysis, but I singled out this quote to note that Harbaugh's talk is in no small part getting his own name out there for consideration for bigger and better things. A resume like he's building at USD will get him a shot in the better ranks of D-I football (where he will no doubt be headed soon), while using the guise of making a name for USD.

[Pard4Life]

Yes, I would LOVE to know why their GPI is so high when their opponents are awful and Yale is the highest team they've beaten. Even if you count Yale, the rest of the PFL should drag their average down immensely. Does anybody know how the GPI works??

[monmouthhawk]

Great analysis, but I singled out this quote to note that Harbaugh's talk is in no small part getting his own name out there for consideration for bigger and better things. A resume like he's building at USD will get him a shot in the better ranks of D-I football (where he will no doubt be headed soon), while using the guise of making a name for USD.

Either that or he is insane, drunk again, or still on pain meds after breaking his hand on Jim Kelly's face.

[Pard4Life]

When I am reading San Diego newspaper articles about USD football... I feel like I am reading articles written by Soviet Pravda writers....

SHUT-UP! Your stupid propoganda is annoying....

[gophoenix]

Great analysis, but I singled out this quote to note that Harbaugh's talk is in no small part getting his own name out there for consideration for bigger and better things. A resume like he's building at USD will get him a shot in the better ranks of D-I football (where he will no doubt be headed soon), while using the guise of making a name for USD.

B&G, I can definitely agree with that. Though, all of the newspaper and fans comments are like watching a bad set of campaigns for Senate. You have a bunch of talk with nothing substantial to back it up. And what it really boils down to is the "we deserve it" talk. If Coastal (2005), Liberty(1997), Cal Poly(1997, 2003) and Elon (1999) didn't deserve it, then there is no way that San Diego fans should be making these comments.

NOTE: Do not blame the GPI. Blame the computer Polls like the Sagarin and Massey who are taken into the GPI (remember the GPI is an index based on many other polls). I can't figure out why their rankings are so high. They have the worst SoS of anyone in the top 50. Their opponents consistently do not make spreads. Two of their opponents aren't even counted for most of the ratings. And their opponents have pretty much been killed by the opposition hwn it comes to playing other leagues. My guess is that Yale's upset of Lehigh weighs heavily, but this heavily? It's just like the yearly question of why the Ivy schools are so high? My guess is that when you sample size against the other schools is so small, sometimes you get an out lier that doesn't fit the formulas well.

And why they are in the Top 25 poll is a direct result of their campaign effort.

[VictorG]

If SD is left out and they get killed in the UC-Davis game, everyone can say they told ya so. If they win, then we'll all hear about it for another year at least.

Seems like there is way less than a 50% chance that there could be a problem leaving them out.

[aceinthehole]

USD is indicated by the GPI as being a playoff team, they are ranked in all the polls for I-AA football... they are undefeated. They have won 18 games in a row.

Who cares! The commite will only evaluate and weigh your 8 I-AA wins in 2006.

Everything else doesn't matter! :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[YoUDeeMan]

Look, we all know that their schedule is horrible, but if they go undefeated does a #16 team with several losses really have an argument? Maybe, I'm going crazy. All I know is that San Diego needs to come to Missoula in the first round. Then, if they win, they proved us all wrong. If they lose, all of this silly talk about USD goes away until next year. Oh my God, I think that I am contributing to the problem myself. Yes, I am going crazy.

Why not Monmouth in the playoffs? 10-1 versus all D-I teams. But, as TSN says, "The Hawks don’t have a major media market or flock of message board posters that spread like a fungus supporting their longshot cause for an at-large berth to the Division I Football Championship."

You, Georgia Griz, just joined the mushrooming fungus crowd. :nono: As someone else posted, shame on you.

If the Griz finished 8-3 with their schedule, would you start a thread saying that you think a 10-0 USD team should take the Griz's spot? : smh :

I'll assume you would think that was a crazy idea. If so, then stop with the crappy argument that USD should take the place if another more deserving 8-3 team because USD is 10-0 and beat up on cupcakes.

[Georgia Griz]

If USD gets invited to the playoffs, then a precedent is set. You can now schedule a bunch of 1AA patsies, and be selected, providing you have no losses. Hmm, if UCD goes independent (should the GWFC fold) I could see them in the playoffs every year, as long as they followthe same road as USD.
I guess I should be on USD's side, right? But, I am not.
As for how good USD is, no one knows. Are they playoff caliber? Again, no one knows. Should a team be invited to the playoffs only because no one knows how good they are? Or should ALL undefeated teams be in the playoffs as long as they have 7 D1 wins?
I am sure the committee has been faced with these questions before, and I am sure they will take past history into their decision. For, that reason alone, I think they are left out.

I think that this post makes a wonderful argument. A dangerous precedent could be set.

[DB_Atlantic10]

Look, we all know that their schedule is horrible, but if they go undefeated does a #16 team with several losses really have an argument? Maybe, I'm going crazy. All I know is that San Diego needs to come to Missoula in the first round. Then, if they win, they proved us all wrong. If they lose, all of this silly talk about USD goes away until next year. Oh my God, I think that I am contributing to the problem myself. Yes, I am going crazy. I see where you are coming from.... please send us USD and not at tough 7-4 Cal Poly... we want another 2nd round home game.....

[UNH 40]

Have you seen Johnson play? If not, as a former player, how can you make that statement? From what some scouts tell me, Johnson would probably be drafted late (maybe sixth round) if he came out as a junior. He might project to the third or fourth round by the time he has finished his senior year. He is viewed as a guy with a lot of athletic talent and a tremendous upside. He can run, throw and is very smart. Santos is a borderline NFL QB from what I'm hearing, but he still has a year to develop. Can't fault his leadership skills. Sanders is smart and a competitor, but has NO WHERE near the arm strength that Santos or Johnson have. He is a gutsy leader, but he is not an NFL-caliber guy. Swogger is liked by NFL types because of his body, but has had a dreadful season from what I've been told by many people. He sometimes is sharp and other times throws the ball all over the place. Swogger will get a look from the NFL, but is a longshot to stick with anyone.

Never said he was bad QB or that he didn't have potential. From what I have heard he is a great athlete. However I would like to see him put up the # that a guy like Santos has against top tier competition. We will see what happens this weekend against UC Davis.

[UAalum72]

In name only. In reality everyone knows that most mid-major I-AA's are the talent level of D-II and D-III squads at best. It's a completely different level of talent between the scholarship and non-scholly I-AA's
Colgate, Lehigh, Georgia Southern, Delaware, Yale, Fordham, Morgan St. may not be included in 'everyone'

[Georgia Griz]

Why not Monmouth in the playoffs? 10-1 versus all D-I teams. But, as TSN says, "The Hawks don’t have a major media market or flock of message board posters that spread like a fungus supporting their longshot cause for an at-large berth to the Division I Football Championship."

You, Georgia Griz, just joined the mushrooming fungus crowd. :nono: As someone else posted, shame on you.

If the Griz finished 8-3 with their schedule, would you start a thread saying that you think a 10-0 USD team should take the Griz's spot? : smh :

I'll assume you would think that was a crazy idea. If so, then stop with the crappy argument that USD should take the place if another more deserving 8-3 team because USD is 10-0 and beat up on cupcakes.

I've always felt that if your team loses 3 Division I-AA games then you don't really deserve to be in the playoffs, no matter how tough your schedule is. You just aren't National Championship caliber if you are losing three games against opponents at your same level of play. The playoffs should be for the elite teams and certainly the unbeaten. You just aren't among the elite if you are losing three games. But, as I stated earlier, this could set a dangerous precendent. But, if USD goes undefeated then I say you have to give them a chance. You don't know who they could really beat. We all like to speculate, but we just don't know. 'Any given Saturday'... ...remember that is what all of this is about. Miracles do happen. You have got to give the small guy a chance in the playoffs or I-AA becomes very similar to I-A.

[LUHawker]

Colgate, Lehigh, Georgia Southern, Delaware, Yale, Fordham, Morgan St. may not be included in 'everyone'

Dane dog,

The poster used a qualifying word, "most", to further clarify his post.

[Torero Tradition]

USD is a real college team, just not a legitimate playoff-caliber team.

That is where you are wrong.... according to the polls and GPI, USD IS A LEGITIMATE PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAM

[Torero Tradition]

LOL, they have been ranked most of the year and there hasn't been any campaigning.

[Guard Dawg]

This will be an interesting week for the Old Guard and the Committee

[BlueHen86]

That is where you are wrong.... according to the polls and GPI, USD IS A LEGITIMATE PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAM

The polls and GPI don't determine if a team is a legitimate playoff team. The selection committee does.

I think the odds are against San Diego getting in. But I do think they will be talked about. We'll find out on 11/19.

[Guard Dawg]

UC Davis and San Diego are not playing this weekend...

[usdtoreros]

When I am reading San Diego newspaper articles about USD football... I feel like I am reading articles written by Soviet Pravda writers....

SHUT-UP! Your stupid propoganda is annoying....

That's funny because the Union-Tribune has never really given much coverage to USD before this year. It's all about SDSU around here. Everything printed in the U-T has been earned.

[Dane96]

Torero Tradition, did you just get back on the bandwagon...the booze wagon.

No campaigning? That has to be the biggest mockery post of the year.

[danefan]

The GPI may also be related to the fact that some people continue to rank USD so high in the human polls. How much do the human polls weigh in the GPI?

[usdtoreros]

And so let me make a comparison for you. Gardner-Webb scored more than USD while pulling starters earlier against Jacksonville. Gardner-Webb also lost to UT-Martin 35-9 and Appalachian 41-6 who are what we call playoff caliber teams this year.

Also, I just looked at some box scores. And where schools like UNI, WIU etc pulled starters during the game, it looks like USD has left starters in to run scores up higher than they would have been for the rest of us. No wonder they've been killing the competition. Sure, they're better than everyone in the Pioneer, but I wouldn't pick USD any higher than 7th in the SoCon in 12th in the A-10.

Sure, Elon could have beaten A&T 70-0, but we pulled starters early in the second half. So is running up the score the way to get respect?

So comparative scores works for arguing against a team, but it gets ripped to shreds when arguing for a team. I get it now xidiotx IMO it really doesn't matter whether its a 3 or 4 TD win or a 8 TD win, you still dominated that team. I think the argument for USD is that there has not been a team that has gone undefeated and dominated all their opponents (no matter how bad their schedule was). Another part of it is that this is a down year at the top of I-AA, so if there was any year that someone like USD could get it, this is it. I really don't think a team that has lost over 1/3 of their games should have much of an argument over USD. You have already proven that over 1/3 of the teams you have played can beat you. Is USD going to get in? Probably not. Are they going to be considered? Of course. Those of you who say there is no chance are just in denial. Either way, USD will have a chance to prove themselves either against UC Davis and Monmouth or in the playoffs.

[Mountaineer]

Not campaigning?

Exhibit 1:

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/usd/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/Playoff.pdf

Now granted I've only been following I-AA for 6 or 7 years now, but for the "Old Guard": have you ever seen anything like what USD is doing?

Solid analysis GP. Unfortunately, when trying to reason with a Torero fan it's like talking to a brick wall. They don't understand the whole strength of schedule thing, instead they scream incessantly about the GPI.

[Torero Tradition]

you do understand most schools do that right... and most send out things promoting their players and coaches for awards? It's so funny these excuses people use against USD, but then use them for themselves.

[Torero Tradition]

i find it funny the committee loosening up on the 4 loss total

[Dane96]

Ummm...yes, players and coaches get hyped from schools, but not teams for playoffs.

You talk to us like no one on this board has been around the game long enough to put on our jocks.

[Torero Tradition]

The Toreros have really applied the pressue, i'm gonna feel bad for the players if they don't get it. Most of the one's i have talked to are convinced they are in.

[Torero Tradition]

J J will get to showcase his abilities in the next several weeks... you either have the playoffs or two big games remaining. Either way, it is still great to be a Torero.

[Mountaineer]

For Payton and Buchanan awards, sure. Nothing wrong with that.

But practically begging for a playoff spot, which USD is doing, is completely unbecoming. ;)

Teams that know they have a legitimate shot at the playoffs - playing real schedules and taking care of business on saturday.

Teams with no legitimate shot - parading a patsy schedule around like it's something to be proud of and shilling for a spot.

[BlueHen86]

you do understand most schools do that right... and most send out things promoting their players and coaches for awards? It's so funny these excuses people use against USD, but then use them for themselves.
You're the person who said San Diego hasn't been campaigning - see post #15 on this thread.
When you're called out on it you're excuse is everyone else does it too.

[BeauFoster]

Thank you, 86.

[danefan]

The Toreros have really applied the pressue, i'm gonna feel bad for the players if they don't get it. Most of the one's i have talked to are convinced they are in.

Thats Harbaugh's fault.

[siugrad99]

I cannot wait to see the USD Fans reaction when they are on the outside looking in after all the typing and BS they've thrown around AGS.

[Husky Alum]

i find it funny the committee loosening up on the 4 loss total

And I find USD's OOC pretty funny too.

Heck, if NU played USD's OOC, we'd be clamoring for a playoff bid - and we've beaten teams in the Top 25 this year. Instead of going 1-2, we'd have gone 3-0, and we'd have likely not been exhausted when we played at Richmond.

NU had open dates early last year and couldn't find anyone to play.

We'd have played you. Maine would likely have played you.

Heck, if you get in with your OOC, there's no reason for Delaware not to schedule West Chester, East Chester, North Chester, South Chester and Chester Alan Arthur for future OOC's and then ask for a bid.

Play SOMEONE, please

[Torero Tradition]

what BS have people thrown around? I've seen a lot of facts and little BS

[Torero Tradition]

Would love to play ya... encourage your AD to call

[gophoenix]

So comparative scores works for arguing against a team, but it gets ripped to shreds when arguing for a team. I get it now IMO it really doesn't matter whether its a 3 or 4 TD win or a 8 TD win, you still dominated that team.

Are you kidding me? If a team by the Sagaring or any other computer poll is only given a spread of 2 TD, then beating said team 4 TDs or 8TDs certainly does matter. And if you think it doesn't, then I suggest that you go take a mathematical statistics class.


I think the argument for USD is that there has not been a team that has gone undefeated and dominated all their opponents (no matter how bad their schedule was).

Again, are you kidding me, or do you just make stuff up? Look back through I-AA since the D-III football teams were moved into the division and you'll see that it has happened 3 times already.


You have already proven that over 1/3 of the teams you have played can beat you.

Yes, and considering 3 of those 5 teams are ranked and all 5 teams would be considered for the playoffs. We've proven that we don't belong in the playoffs, but we also played a schedule to prove that we do belong if we did win.

Man up and play a descent schedule or stop whining.

-Here's me imitating a San Diego fan-

We're San Diego. We're so good. Look at us. We are the best team in the country. Our coach says so. We can let Morehead State score 21. We have the best Quarterback in the country. It must be true, the newspaper says so.

Blah blah blah. It's like listening to a broken record with you guys. Go get a box of tissues and deal with the fact that you don't deserve it.

[BigApp]

The thing is, they did beat the snot out of Yale. I know it's just one team. But they didn't just edge the now 7 - 1 Bulldogs. They absolutely pistol whipped them. They put up 567 yards of offense against a team that's now given up an average of 331 in its other games playing in a league that is rated by Sagarin's system as tougher than 5 of the 8 automatic bid conferences this year.



According to the stats on the Yale website, the Bulldogs have given up 500 or more all-purpose yards 5 times (USD, Cornell, Lafayette, Brown & Princeton). How is this news?xcoffeex http://yalebulldogs.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2006-2007/teamgbg.html

[Husky Alum]

I believe they did, and were told "no thanks".

[BigApp]

In fact, Yale has the Ivy's #6 rated Defense (out of 8 teams). 16 yards more per game, they'd have the worst defense in their conference. xcoffeex :read: xcoffeex

[OldFootballGuy]

That's what i like to hear... a prominent person proving they are anti-non scholly teams. To be in the playoffs= must having scholarships. LOL that is funny. It has nothing to do with scholarships.

I agree with you completely on that point. It has nothing at all to do with whether you give athletic scholarships. It has everything to do with compiling a playoff worthy resume during the regular season. If USD schedules, and beats, real opponents then I'll be 100% in favor of their inclusion in the playoffs. Based on this year's resume, a playoff invitation would be a slap in the face to all the teams who were willing to step up and play somebody. The precedent that would set, as has already been alluded to in this thread, would be dangerous for the future of this division.

[BillLuc1982]

Looks like Harbaugh could use some humility lessons from Jim Tressel!

[YoUDeeMan]

Again, are you kidding me, or do you just make stuff up? Look back through I-AA since the D-III football teams were moved into the division and you'll see that it has happened 3 times already.


gophoenix,

The National Committee for Fairness will be asking you to please stop using reality when responding to TT & CO. posts.

xlolx

[BigApp]

NOTE: Do not blame the GPI. Blame the computer Polls like the Sagarin and Massey who are taken into the GPI (remember the GPI is an index based on many other polls). I can't figure out why their rankings are so high.

Glad to have you on board GP!:thumbsup:

[Black and Gold Express]

Colgate, Lehigh, Georgia Southern, Delaware, Yale, Fordham, Morgan St. may not be included in 'everyone'
And of that group maybe 2 teams are playoff caliber this year (and that's a stretch). The two biggest "names" on your list (GSU and UD) are having down years. And outside of Colgate's miracle run in 2003, the PL aren't usually full of teams threatening for a title.

You are to scholarship I-AA's what scholarship I-AA's are to BCS-level I-A's. There's a handful of squads from that lower division that can compete with the upper division, and have a few players of the talent level of the upper division. Sometimes they spring an upset on a weaker upper-division opponent. But the upper division teams will invariably be much better in depth and overall strength, and most contests between them will end up lopsided espcially when facing off against an elite team of the upper division, and that's the big difference any why there is such a big gap between I-A and I-AA, and scholarship I-AA and non-scholly I-AA as a whole.

[UMass922]

I've always felt that if your team loses 3 Division I-AA games then you don't really deserve to be in the playoffs, no matter how tough your schedule is. You just aren't National Championship caliber if you are losing three games against opponents at your same level of play. The playoffs should be for the elite teams and certainly the unbeaten. You just aren't among the elite if you are losing three games.

I disagree. A team that goes 8-3 has won over 72% of its games. Is that not elite? How many teams in any sport at any level win that percentage of their regular-season games in a given year? If you're winning roughly 3/4 of your games against your level of competition, I'd say you're a championship contender. Are NFL teams that go 12-4 not championship caliber? (The Steelers went 11-5 last year.)

Maybe I'm just saying this because UMass won the National Championship in '98 as a three-loss team. WKU did the same thing a few years later. And I may be forgetting other teams that have done it as well. I-AA history has clearly shown that three-loss teams are absolutely championship caliber.

The problem with a team like San Diego is that nearly all of its games have come against teams at a substantially lower level than the teams that other contenders are playing--so their 10-0 (really, 8-0) record is not at all comparable to the 8-3 or even 7-4 records of teams from much better conferences playing much tougher schedules. San Diego's schedule is not at the "same level of play" as that of a Portland State, a New Hampshire, or a Southern Illinois.

[Black and Gold Express]

TT, you got your plans ready for that trip to UC-Davis yet? I'm sure your team would love to see you there rooting them on when they play in a couple of weeks.

[BeauFoster]

ASU won last year with an 8-3 regular season record. The losses were to Furman, Kansas (I-A) and LSU (I-A). Furman was highly ranked at the time of the loss and soon after became the #1 team for a week or two.

[BillLuc1982]

And of that group maybe 2 teams are playoff caliber this year (and that's a stretch). The two biggest "names" on your list (GSU and UD) are having down years. And outside of Colgate's miracle run in 2003, the PL aren't usually full of teams threatening for a title.

You are to scholarship I-AA's what scholarship I-AA's are to BCS-level I-A's. There's a handful of squads from that lower division that can compete with the upper division, and have a few players of the talent level of the upper division. Sometimes they spring an upset on a weaker upper-division opponent. But the upper division teams will invariably be much better in depth and overall strength, and most contests between them will end up lopsided espcially when facing off against an elite team of the upper division, and that's the big difference any why there is such a big gap between I-A and I-AA, and scholarship I-AA and non-scholly I-AA as a whole.

In that case, send Appalachian State to Tempe in January :D

[monmouthhawk]

Johnson is a good qb, but you can't really compare him versus Santos. Santos is in one of the strongest conferences and his numbers are versus that high competition.

I really doubt Johnson could put up comparable numbers against the same competition.

[BlueHen86]

And I find USD's OOC pretty funny too.

Heck, if NU played USD's OOC, we'd be clamoring for a playoff bid - and we've beaten teams in the Top 25 this year. Instead of going 1-2, we'd have gone 3-0, and we'd have likely not been exhausted when we played at Richmond.

NU had open dates early last year and couldn't find anyone to play.

We'd have played you. Maine would likely have played you.

Heck, if you get in with your OOC, there's no reason for Delaware not to schedule West Chester, East Chester, North Chester, South Chester and Chester Alan Arthur for future OOC's and then ask for a bid.

Play SOMEONE, please

That is much tougher than San Diego's current schedule.

[UMass922]

ASU won last year with an 8-3 regular season record. The losses were to Furman, Kansas (I-A) and LSU (I-A). Furman was highly ranked at the time of the loss and soon after became the #1 team for a week or two.

Last year's ASU team would have gotten a pass if Georgia Griz were in charge, because his beef is with teams with three I-AA losses (the '98 UMass team, though, would have been sitting at home).

Anyway, ASU's two I-A losses last year are worth keeping in mind when we debate this year's at-large field. Some folks want to dismiss Portland State and Eastern Illinois as dreaded four-loss teams--yet each has two I-A losses, so for I-AA playoff purposes they're each 7-2 (with EIU having a chance to move to 8-2 this weekend)--just as San Diego is really a more modest 8-0 when you subtract their two non- D-I wins.

[BeauFoster]

Last year's ASU team would have gotten a pass if Georgia Griz were in charge, because his beef is with teams with three I-AA losses (the '98 UMass team, though, would have been sitting at home).

Anyway, ASU's two I-A losses last year are worth keeping in mind when we debate this year's at-large field. Some folks want to dismiss Portland State and Eastern Illinois as dreaded four-loss teams--yet each has two I-A losses, so for I-AA playoff purposes they're each 7-2 (with EIU having a chance to move to 8-2 this weekend)--just as San Diego is really a more modest 8-0 when you subtract their two non- D-I wins.

I probably should have finished my thought but you did it for me. I wanted to point out that 3 losses are not always technically 3 losses. I guess we were more like 8-1 last year.

[Cincy App]

Excellent analysis, GP - thanks! I was curious how other Pioneer teams had performed in games against scholarship teams. Getting pounded by the SE La's and GWU's plus losing to VMI really tells the story. Case closed!

[YoUDeeMan]

Would love to play ya... encourage your AD to call

Another person with nothing to offer that says "come to us" instead of doing work and knocking on doors themselves.

[gophoenix]

Glad to have you on board GP!

See BigApp, we don't have to hate each other _all_ the time do we??? ;)

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

IMO, the Patriot League is no better OOC this year. Look at Lafayettes performance this season, and they very well could be the best team in the PL this year. I'd be willing to bet USD could beat any team in the PL. One could argue that to be fair if you are including PL teams, you should include USD who is head and shoulders above any team in the Pioneer.

In my opinion, if New Hampshire, Towson, and Montana State all lose, they are definitly in. I'm not saying they are more deserving than Portland State or a 7-4 Montana State or New Hampshire team, but if PL teams are worthy, they are too.

Finally, take a look at Yale's S&R

September 16 San Diego L 43-17 0-1 (0-0)
September 23 at Cornell W 21-9 1-1 (1-0)
September 30 at Lafayette W 37-34 2-1 (1-0)
October 7 at Dartmouth W 26-14 3-1 (2-0)
October 14 Lehigh W 26-20 4-1 (2-0)
October 21 Pennsylvania W 17-14 5-1 (3-0)
October 28 Columbia W 21-3 6-1 (4-0)
November 4 at Brown W 27-24 7-1 (5-0)
November 11 Princeton L 34-31 7-2 (5-1)

Close games with PL teams and teams that have beaten several PL teams, and Yale gets destroyed by them at home. I know it's one game, but the difference is pretty significant and USD has been well above all the other teams in the Pioneer, like I already said.

[youwouldno]

The computers rank USD fairly high because undefeated teams are very difficult for the computers to handle. They have no upper bound, just lower bounds, and the Yale win throws the whole thing out of whack.

[ToreroTime]

Im not sure if USD is going to make the playoffs or not but all of these anti USD posts are getting really old. I think a lot of posters are just jealous that their team is not getting talked about in this forum. I dont think one poster who has ever seen USD has ever bashed them.

[danefan]

IMO, the Patriot League is no better OOC this year. Look at Lafayettes performance this season, and they very well could be the best team in the PL this year. I'd be willing to bet USD could beat any team in the PL. One could argue that to be fair if you are including PL teams, you should include USD who is head and shoulders above any team in the Pioneer.

In my opinion, if New Hampshire, Towson, and Montana State all lose, they are definitly in. I'm not saying they are more deserving than Portland State or a 7-4 Montana State or New Hampshire team, but if PL teams are worthy, they are too.

Finally, take a look at Yale's S&R

September 16 San Diego L 43-17 0-1 (0-0)
September 23 at Cornell W 21-9 1-1 (1-0)
September 30 at Lafayette W 37-34 2-1 (1-0)
October 7 at Dartmouth W 26-14 3-1 (2-0)
October 14 Lehigh W 26-20 4-1 (2-0)
October 21 Pennsylvania W 17-14 5-1 (3-0)
October 28 Columbia W 21-3 6-1 (4-0)
November 4 at Brown W 27-24 7-1 (5-0)
November 11 Princeton L 34-31 7-2 (5-1)

Close games with PL teams and teams that have beaten several PL teams, and Yale gets destroyed by them at home. I know it's one game, but the difference is pretty significant and USD has been well above all the other teams in the Pioneer, like I already said.


Yes...but the PL teams are only getting in because of the At-large. I don't think anyone would argue for a patriot league at-large this year. Its clear that the PL is not really all that deserving of a playoff spot this year...but instead gets its AQ based on past year's success. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Lehigh would never get an at-large this year, they lost to Albany who turned around and lost to Fordham and Cornell. I think comparing USD's worthiness to the PL AQ is apples and oranges.

[danefan]

Im not sure if USD is going to make the playoffs or not but all of these anti USD posts are getting really old. I think a lot of posters are just jealous that their team is not getting talked about in this forum. I dont think one poster who has ever seen USD has ever bashed them.


Here's the thing TT: most of the posts (and I qualify that with "most") are not bashing USD. What they, myself included, are saying is that USD's schedule is not playoff worthy. I for one congratulate USD for having what could be the best Mid-major season ever. However, its just that a really really really really good mid-major season. But still in my mind it falls short of an at-large quality season because of the strength of schedule.

[texcap]

Im not sure if USD is going to make the playoffs or not but all of these anti USD posts are getting really old. I think a lot of posters are just jealous that their team is not getting talked about in this forum. I dont think one poster who has ever seen USD has ever bashed them.

If you think the anti-USD posts are getting real old, just imagine how non-USD posters feel when they open upthe forum and the first seven topics are posts from USD supporters trying to justify how good they are by pointing to their recent blow out of the College of Sister Mary Elephant.

I am anti-USD just to get you guys to go away. There is no way to discuss any other team as long as you guys are busy campaigning about how you deserve to be in the Super Bowl this year.

Get a real schedule, play some teams that matter and then come back!

[Torero Tradition]

Would he put up the numbers if is was surrounded by the same talent as Santos... lord knows san diego sucks, but i guess i'm just wondering if say, he was the qb there instead of Santos... do you really think he couldn't put up the same numbers as Santos?

[Mountaineer]

No one is saying San Diego sucks. The Toreros have had a great year in football. It's something the coaches, players, and fans should be proud of.

The argument here is that San Diego doesn't deserve a playoff spot based on strength of schedule. It has nothing to do with hating the university or the football team.

[shakdaddy3]

ok, i changed my mind... after the 150th thread about how USD deserves to make the playoffs because they have really good stats, went undefeated, and beat the powerhouse team known as Yale... USD has the best QB ever... congrats USD fans, on thread 149 i didn't think you guys deserved it, but after seeing this thread, my mind has completely changed and i am sold...

please stop the insanity... i know it's USD month, but it is still the AGS board, not the USD fan board...

[catbob]

If USD gets in, they will be send to either App or Montana, right? Can USD win against either of those teams? That is the question I would be asking myself if I were on the committee. If you let USD in, and they perform well, or even win, then the decision seems just. But if they get hammered, there will be a lot of upset fans of 8-3/7-4 teams that were left out.

Personally I would love to see what USD has, and will get that chance when they play Davis. Letting USD into the playoffs would be far too costly, especially if they were to lose and lose badly.

Basically letting USD in would be punishing teams that played a difficult schedule and won most of their games. And has been said, it would set a dangerous precedent in IAA. Just schedule Savannah State, some DII squads and you are set.

If you play in a weak conference such as USD, and you want to make noise on a national level, you MUST schedule some quality OOC opponents. USD refuses time and time again to do so, and they will be sitting at home for the playoffs.

[catbob]

Also, I believe the worst thing that could happen to this message board would for USD to be excluded, and then whoop up on Davis. We would NEVER heard the end of it.

[catbob]

Im not sure if USD is going to make the playoffs or not but all of these anti USD posts are getting really old. I think a lot of posters are just jealous that their team is not getting talked about in this forum. I dont think one poster who has ever seen USD has ever bashed them.

You made your own enemies, deal with it. Last year I was a USD fan, I thought Harbaugh was doing great things with that program and I kept wondering how well they would do against real competition.

This year they didn't schedule any real competition, I was dissapointed. But then the "invasion" began by USD fans, and USD has been talked about more than any other team in the history of AGS.

USD fans completely bombarded AGS, it was like Pearl Harbor. Don't get mad when us IAA fans get tired of non-stop talk of one team.

[Guard Dawg]

You can understand why they wouldn't cover USD though right? They are non-scholarship in a lower division of Division I. SDSU sucking would be a more attractive article than the Toreros doing well.

[Guard Dawg]

That is where you are wrong.... according to the polls and GPI, USD IS A LEGITIMATE PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAM

Those aren't used to pick playoff teams, sorry

[Guard Dawg]

I don't think it matters how good the SDU QB really is. Even if he was the best in I-AA, that still wouldn't get them into the playoffs.

[*****]

... IF it wasnt so many teams with 3 and 4 losses, there would be no way USD would make it in. on normal yearsThe committee doesn't go on losses anymore, they go on seven D-I wins. There are enough seven D-I win teams to inspect for their criteria.

[CopperCat]

I think a big reason why USD gets in becuase of the Big Sky and Southland getting one bid, and Cal Poly not making it. Its just one of those years.

Trad, you are assuming MSU is going to lose to UM. LET THE GAME BE PLAYED BEFORE YOU START SAYING WHO IS AND ISN'T IN FOR SURE!!!!!
:nono:

[*****]

Trad, you are assuming MSU is going to lose to UM. LET THE GAME BE PLAYED BEFORE YOU START SAYING WHO IS AND ISN'T IN FOR SURE!!!!!
:nono:Trad is also assuming a 7-4 team(s) from that conference will not be selected.

[DetroitFlyer]

Unlike the vast majority of "experts" here, I have been able to see USD play in person the last two seasons. I was impressed with USD last season when they whomped the Flyers in Dayton. In San Diego this year, they were even better. USD runs perhaps the most complicated offensive sets I have ever seen in college. Not only do they run complicated sets, they do it with machine like precision! The Flyers defense never knew what was coming at them. USD had something like 33 first downs and did not punt until there was less than a minute left in the 4th quarter! Josh Johnson is one special kid. I have not seen the other top I-AA, QB's play, but JJ is amazing. He has gotten quicker since last year, and has an incredible arm. Dayton had many plays well defended but JJ would either throw a perfect dart or scramble for massive amounts of yards. There is zero doubt in my mind that USD's offense will keep them in all of their playoff games. The defense only looks ordinary because you tend to compare them to the awesome offense. Once again, they are very sound. They might give up a play or two, but once again I think they would contain the vast majority of I-AA teams well. If you want to see a really great football team, buy the DVD of the game from Channel 4 in San Diego. I posted the information on UDPRIDE.com. I will not be buying the DVD as I do not think I could stand watching my team demolished again. For a pure football fan, however, you will be impressed with USD if you watch the USD/Dayton game. If USD does not get a bid to the playoffs, a crime will have been committed. USD should not only receive a bid, I will not be suprised when they win a game or two, maybe more. USD is one of the most exciting and talented teams in this division. Believe it or not, but this I-AA fan will always be highly impressed with the USD team of 2006!

[ASU Kep]

Your right. We're all just cannonfodder for San Diego's march to Chattanooga.

[ToreroTime]

I was at the game as well and they looked like a well oiled machine with very few flaws. Everything was clicking and Josh Johnson played out of his mind. I dont think they have played better all season.

[putter]

I don't think anyone is saying the San Diego is not a quality team. The knock is the overall schedule that they have played. It would be like App St. fans (if they win the NC this year) saying that they could play in the BCS bowl games because of their success. Let me ask you...How do you think App would do going up against Ohio St., Michigan, USC, etc. They would only give up 22 scholarships vs. 63 scholarships for San Diego. I have no doubt Johnson is a good QB and they can execute but, having no schollies, can they compete for 4 quarters with a full scholarship team?

[UMass922]

Unlike the vast majority of "experts" here, I have been able to see USD play in person the last two seasons. I was impressed with USD last season when they whomped the Flyers in Dayton. In San Diego this year, they were even better. USD runs perhaps the most complicated offensive sets I have ever seen in college. Not only do they run complicated sets, they do it with machine like precision! The Flyers defense never knew what was coming at them. USD had something like 33 first downs and did not punt until there was less than a minute left in the 4th quarter! Josh Johnson is one special kid. I have not seen the other top I-AA, QB's play, but JJ is amazing. He has gotten quicker since last year, and has an incredible arm. Dayton had many plays well defended but JJ would either throw a perfect dart or scramble for massive amounts of yards. There is zero doubt in my mind that USD's offense will keep them in all of their playoff games. The defense only looks ordinary because you tend to compare them to the awesome offense. Once again, they are very sound. They might give up a play or two, but once again I think they would contain the vast majority of I-AA teams well. If you want to see a really great football team, buy the DVD of the game from Channel 4 in San Diego. I posted the information on UDPRIDE.com. I will not be buying the DVD as I do not think I could stand watching my team demolished again. For a pure football fan, however, you will be impressed with USD if you watch the USD/Dayton game. If USD does not get a bid to the playoffs, a crime will have been committed. USD should not only receive a bid, I will not be suprised when they win a game or two, maybe more. USD is one of the most exciting and talented teams in this division. Believe it or not, but this I-AA fan will always be highly impressed with the USD team of 2006!

Everything you've said could be absolutely true, but it doesn't mean that San Diego is deserving of a playoff bid. How San Diego might do if they got into the playoffs is irrelevant; you can't speculate a team into the playoffs. A team has to earn its way into the playoffs by playing and beating playoff-caliber teams during the regular season. San Diego's body of evidence is simply too thin. They don't have the resume that other teams have.

[*****]

... this I-AA fan will always be highly impressed with the USD team of 2006!I know PFLers will all be rooting for USD to beat Monmouth if USD isn't selected. :nod:

[ASU Kep]

We don't belong on the same field as the Toreros. If I was Jerry Moore, I would simply back out of the playoffs to ensure our guys don't have to suffer the humiliation of getting stomped 223-0.

[ASU Kep]

I heard from someone San Diego has a 25 game home win streak at Kidd Brewer stadium. Thats longer than OURS!

[BigApp]

USD runs perhaps the most complicated offensive sets I have ever seen in college....Not only do they run complicated sets, they do it with machine like precision!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


There is zero doubt in my mind that USD's offense will keep them in all of their playoff games.

xlolx :rolleyes: xlolx


I will not be suprised when they win a game or two, maybe more

: retard : : retard : : retard :

[BigApp]

Strange. I didn't see this team you're referring to against Davidson.

[ASU Kep]

Davidson > Montana/App St./YSU

San Diego > '85 Bears.

[BigApp]

I'm still trying to figure out why a recent Southern Cal grad cares so much about San Diego football...

[DetroitFlyer]

Oh, you mean the Davidson game that USD won 50-21 or something like that? The USD fans I spoke with thought the Dayton game was the best one they played all year.... That would tell me that they are peaking at the right time. Like I said, believe it or not, but having seen USD play in person two years in a row, all I can say is that they are extremely good and should get a playoff bid regardless of the old guard bias in I-AA!

[BigApp]

I believe they did, and were told "no thanks".

Same here

[Tod]

If USD is selected, I wonder if anything less than a win will change any minds here. What if they do get selected, do go to Montana, and lose 35-21? Did they belong? Would be very interesting to see.

[chattanoogamocs]

And I assume they do it that way because that is the "official logo" (or type font) of the University as a whole...correct?

http://www.umt.edu/imx/umlogo.gif

[matfu]

we will never know how they would have done because san diego has a ZERO chance of getting in the playoffs

[matfu]

Remember their criteria.

USD schedule (with GPI rank)
at Azusa Pacific Not D-I
Dixie State Not D-I
at #22 Yale
at #94T Davidson
#118 Butler
#121 Valparaiso
at #64 Drake
#112 Morehead State
at #106 Jacksonville
#109 Dayton....that looks like a junior varsity high school girl's volleyball schedule

[Cincy App]

Oh, you mean the Davidson game that USD won 50-21 or something like that?...

Like I said, believe it or not, but having seen USD play in person two years in a row, all I can say is that they are extremely good and should get a playoff bid regardless of the old guard bias in I-AA!

The last time ASU played Davidson, ASU won 63-6. This "old guard" says that USD needs to enjoy the Gridiron Classic...

[matfu]

I've always felt that if your team loses 3 Division I-AA games then you don't really deserve to be in the playoffs, no matter how tough your schedule is. You just aren't National Championship caliber if you are losing three games against opponents at your same level of play. The playoffs should be for the elite teams and certainly the unbeaten. You just aren't among the elite if you are losing three games. But, as I stated earlier, this could set a dangerous precendent. But, if USD goes undefeated then I say you have to give them a chance. You don't know who they could really beat. We all like to speculate, but we just don't know. 'Any given Saturday'... ...remember that is what all of this is about. Miracles do happen. You have got to give the small guy a chance in the playoffs or I-AA becomes very similar to I-A.


the miracle will be if san diego gets in!!

[BeauFoster]

If USD is selected, I wonder if anything less than a win will change any minds here. What if they do get selected, do go to Montana, and lose 35-21? Did they belong? Would be very interesting to see.


As much as I don't think USD has made a case to belong in the playoffs, I don't know how to answer your question. No, I don't think that they are capable of beating UM but I have never seen them play. They may be better than most AGSers think. If they were to win a game (probably a big if) then I think most of us on here would have to eat a lot of crow and we would definately never hear the end of it. If they keep it close then I would probably feel indifferent because it is highly unlikely that they will be winning said game in Boone and that is really the only game that is going to get my heart rate elevated up what-so-ever. However, I don't think that the committee will award them an invite because of SOS. I guess it will be a moot point until 11/19 or, quite possibly, late 11/25.

[CCUBeachChicken]

:twocents: :

I think that USD COULD be a really great team, but as has been said before, to make the playoffs you have to prove it. I have nothing against the Toreros, and wish them well in the future. But no way in my book do they get in over PSU, or even Wofford without playing more than one top 50 team.

[Black and Gold Express]

Im not sure if USD is going to make the playoffs or not but all of these anti USD posts are getting really old. I think a lot of posters are just jealous that their team is not getting talked about in this forum. I dont think one poster who has ever seen USD has ever bashed them.

I can't speak for others, but since my team is talked about a lot (and unlike yours, usually in a positive manner) I'm having fun just reminding you that you need to get your ticket for your game in Davis, CA on November 25th. Your Toreros will need all the support they can get when they finally play a legitimate team this year! :thumbsup:

[Guard Dawg]

That is a pretty poor assessment if you think San Diego would get hurt playing Appy State or Montana. As much as I don't want San Diego in the playoffs, it is quite unfair the way they are getting treated on this board.
Either way, San Diego in or out, they will still have two quality games left and people will get to see how they stack up. What I don't like is the fact a 4 loss team might get in. What if UM hammers MSU, but then Portland State gets in. MSU would have 4 losses, but would have beaten PSU head to head. This is a crazy year in I-AA and should be interesting with the playoff picks...

[Guard Dawg]

Since I have argued against USD, i think it is important to be able to argue the flip side. People will say... you have to prove it. Well folks, they have played 10 games this season and are undefeated. Going back to last year they have one i think 17-20 games. It's hard to prove it against certain teams if they are not on your schedule. If you want to argue you think they are undeserving because of who they played... that is a very legitimate arguement. But to say they haven't proved it this year is a weak arguement.

[Black and Gold Express]

Since I have argued against USD, i think it is important to be able to argue the flip side. People will say... you have to prove it. Well folks, they have played 10 games this season and are undefeated. Going back to last year they have one i think 17-20 games. It's hard to prove it against certain teams if they are not on your schedule. If you want to argue you think they are undeserving because of who they played... that is a very legitimate arguement. But to say they haven't proved it this year is a weak arguement.

It is totally not a weak argument. THEY HAVE NOT PLAYED ANYBODY, except for a Yale team that not everyone is sold on. One game out of eleven, that's it.

They have one of the worst SOS in all of Division I college football. How's THAT for an argument? Going undefeated against that group of teams is NOTHING worth bragging about, and proves NOTHING other than they can beat some of the worst football teams in Division I.

If that becomes a solid case for a successful inclusion into the playoffs, I will throw my hat fully into the "ASU to I-A" ring, because the I-AA Playoffs, and by proxy I-AA football as a whole, will have officially become a complete joke.

San Diego in the 2006 playoffs would be a complete and utter embarrassment to this division of football as a whole. It would mock all the hard work and tough games the other 15 playoff teams, and the vast majority of bubble teams that got passed over.

USD posters as a group may be clueless whiners for the most part, and it's fun to pick on them. But throwing that all away, I am vehemently against ANY team being included in the playoffs when they have done comparatively nothing to deserve a spot. Period.

[blur2005]

Case made...


Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike

[UMass922]

If USD is selected, I wonder if anything less than a win will change any minds here. What if they do get selected, do go to Montana, and lose 35-21? Did they belong? Would be very interesting to see.

USD could win the national championship with four straight blowout wins--and it will still not mean that their regular-season resume was playoff-worthy. It will just mean that they turned out to be a great I-AA team after all, even though they had not supplied sufficient evidence of being one during the regular season.

[monmouthhawk]

Would he put up the numbers if is was surrounded by the same talent as Santos... lord knows san diego sucks, but i guess i'm just wondering if say, he was the qb there instead of Santos... do you really think he couldn't put up the same numbers as Santos?

Yes. I do not think Mr. Johnson could put up the same numbers as Ricky Santos.

[Col Hogan]

If you read the bottom of the article it mentions some great quarterbacks who have come from the I-AA ranks...

THESE QBs MADE THE JUMP
Division 1-AA quarterbacks who made it in the NFL:

Phil Simms (Morehead State) – New Yorkers booed when the Giants made the future Super Bowl MVP their 1979 first-round draft pick.

Doug Williams (Grambling State) – Named MVP of Super Bowl XXII in San Diego, throwing for a then-record 340 yards in the Redskins' 42-10 blowout of Denver.

Rich Gannon (Delaware) – Eighteen-year vet's best numbers came late in his career with Raiders. Only Blue Hen to play in a Super Bowl.

Kurt Warner (Northern Iowa) – Stocked groceries and played in the Arena League before directing the Rams' “Greatest Show on Turf.”

Steve McNair (Alcorn State) – Rugged Ravens quarterback can still play come crunch time, as Chargers discovered.

Tony Romo (Eastern Illinois) – Former Payton Award winner has unseated Drew Bledsoe at Dallas.

Let's not forget Greg Landry from UMASS. Led the Detroit Lions when they were great!!!

[Torero Tradition]

What year did Landry play at UMASS?

[Torero Tradition]

At least you can all be happy that the commisioner for the PFL isn't lobbying for San Diego, but rather teams from her "other conference" :)

Patty V. you make us proud!

[Torero Tradition]

please explain "sufficient evidence" i would like to use that when i look at the teams who were actually selected.

[Pard4Life]

San Diego should join the Patriot League... school has a good profile and they like to play Ivies.

[blukeys]

What year did Landry play at UMASS?

I know he played in 1968. Not sure if he graduated that year or 1969.

[SoCon48]

Let us analyze things a bit:

USD and the Pioneer Conference overall have a schedule that makes you virtually incomparable to the rest of I-AA. Here's the entire Pioneer schedule for other scholarship I-AA schools (2-6 overall):
Davidson 19, VMI 20 (USD 50-21 over DC)
Dayton 28, Austin Peay 23
Drake 7, UNI 48 (USD 37, Drake 0)
Jacksonville 14, Gardner-Webb 49 (USD 38, Jacksonville 21)
Jacksonville 13, SE Louisianna 41
Morehead State 21, Austin Peay 23 (USD 44, Morehead St 21)
Morehead 6, WIU 31
San Diego 43, Yale 17

The Pioneer overall is also 10-8 against non-DI competition. So, let me get this straight, the Pioneer plays 18 non-conference games with non-DI opponents but only 8 with opponents from the 12 scholarship conferences???

And so let me make a comparison for you. Gardner-Webb scored more than USD while pulling starters earlier against Jacksonville. Gardner-Webb also lost to UT-Martin 35-9 and Appalachian 41-6 who are what we call playoff caliber teams this year.

Also, I just looked at some box scores. And where schools like UNI, WIU etc pulled starters during the game, it looks like USD has left starters in to run scores up higher than they would have been for the rest of us. No wonder they've been killing the competition. Sure, they're better than everyone in the Pioneer, but I wouldn't pick USD any higher than 7th in the SoCon in 12th in the A-10.

Sure, Elon could have beaten A&T 70-0, but we pulled starters early in the second half. So is running up the score the way to get respect?

The moral of the story. You'll get a playoff bid and respect when you guys schedule and beat teams from the SoCon, OVC, MEAC, SWAC, Big Sky, Big South, Patriot, Great West, A-10, Gateway and Southland consistently. not by beating of an Ivy in their first game of the year or by beating some unheardof sub-DI schools.

No amount of newspaper articles is going to get your respect, it only further makes you look like a joke. And the comments by your coach further that impression.

Sure, Elon could have beaten A&T 70-0, but we pulled starters early in the second half. So is running up the score the way to get respect

Early in the second half? Maybe some or most or something like that or maybe whatever you call "early" in the 2nd half. But the starting QB for Elon (Wes Pope) played the entire 3rd quarter.
Still better than playing on into the 4th or passing liberally with or without the starters in.
Elon did show restraint in not running it up to 70 pts. Bethune-Cookman, a 4-6 team ran it up to 70-7.

[Mountaineer#96]

"Jacksonville 14, Gardner-Webb 49 (USD 38, Jacksonville 21)"

This one sticks out BIG.......... Coastal dropped 50 plus on Webb and we dropped 40 something sooooo although there are other factors you can have an idea how USD stacks up. I think Gardner Webb could beat USD.

[JohnStOnge]

I think arguments can be made both ways. There is that thing where San Diego blew out a team (Yale) that beat the two teams that will be, as I understand it, playing for the Patriot League automatic bid this Saturday.

And, remember, what power ratings do is consider all scores of all games simultaneously and comprehensively. Power ratings generally have San Diego rated pretty high.

[GOTOREROS]

One question. With their SOS so low, why is their GPI so high?

I would love to see those who think USD is not worthy of playoff consideration answer that question. Notice how I said PLAYOFF CONSIDERATION.

We'll see what people have to say....

[MU Alum]

I think arguments can be made both ways. There is that thing where San Diego blew out a team (Yale) that beat the two teams that will be, as I understand it, playing for the Patriot League automatic bid this Saturday.

And, remember, what power ratings do is consider all scores of all games simultaneously and comprehensively. Power ratings generally have San Diego rated pretty high.

How about Albany beating Lehigh, then Monmouth beat Albany up in Albany. Sacred Heart lost to Lafayette close after being up late in the game. The NEC is a better conference than the Pioneer and has scheduled much harder OOC and Won some over AQ conferences.

To answer the question about the GPI, San Diego is so high because people and coaches vote them high in polls and that has a major impact. A lot of those polls are honestly hype, when you sit down and look at who San Diego has played and who those teams have played and how they have faired. No smack meant. Honestly why does San Diego deserve it over MU, when you look at conferences, schedules and results.

[Maverick]

All I can say is that the one win vs Yale does not a season make when the the rest of the schedule does "nothing" to support the contention that they belong in the playoffs. When you start talking about teams who week in and week out faced a significant challenge and then try to tell me that equates with the absolute lack of challenge faced by USD the undefeated record pales due to the lack of a significant opponent (Drake included). I don't care what the GPI does or doesn't do, the fact of the awful schedule that outside of Yale and including the NAIA and D-II teams is not worthy of serious consideration by the selection committee no matter how "eligible" USD may be under the most basic of criteria. The SOS issue has never been refuted by the USD posters only ignored in favor of distractions such as polls, statistical rankings, etc. Only a hanful of USD posters here demonstrate an understanding of the history and process of the I-AA playoff selections. Those who simple prattle on with the size of the wins, polls, rankings, computer rankings, NCAA stat rankings, in an effort to "talk" themselves into the playoffs are the problem. This is not anti-USD or USD hating it is simply a tiring of those who post around the facts that a substandard schedule and a game that was scheduled during the playoffs indicated that there was no playoff consideration for USD by the AD and coach. I don't recall any other school pulling such a bonehead play in scheduling and then scramble around to correct the screw up. Fix up the schedule and shut down the propaganda. Get ready to play UC-Davis and the Gridirion Classic. Enjoy those games and make changes in next years schedule (if your head coach is still there) before posting any more of the we "deserve" drivel. It ain't what you deserve, but what you have earned!

[Torero Tradition]

USD would be at a real disadavantage

Why USD would be at a disadvantage being on the road and being in a hostile environement... did you think JJ would just sit there in the pocket, not move and get tackled by 11 guy's? :eek:

[Torero Tradition]

Only if we were more regionally located :)

I would be estactic with either a Big Sky or Great West bid someday, but will probably never happen :(

[Torero Tradition]

[QUOTE=shakdaddy3]ok, i changed my mind... after the 150th thread about how USD deserves to make the playoffs because they have really good stats, went undefeated, and beat the powerhouse team known as Yale... USD has the best QB ever... congrats USD fans, on thread 149 i didn't think you guys deserved it, but after seeing this thread, my mind has completely changed and i am sold...
QUOTE]

:thumbsup:

[BlueHen86]

At least you can all be happy that the commisioner for the PFL isn't lobbying for San Diego, but rather teams from her "other conference" :)

Patty V. you make us proud!
I don't blame her.

On one hand you have a conference where schools invest money in the form of football scholarships, schedule aggresively and fight for the playoffs.
These schools have invested something into the program and hope to get a return for their investment.

On the other hand you have a conference where teams don't invest money for scholarships, don't schedule aggressively and don't fight for the playoffs.
If you really intended to fight for the playoffs you wouldn't have scheduled a game that day. You also would have scheduled some tougher teams - to help your resume and to prepare you for tough playoff games.

I think the commisioner is doing the responsible thing - looking out for the conference that has more invested.

[Torero Tradition]

You are right in some ways, but shouldn't every conference have a commissioner who is supportive of their conference?

[BlueHen86]

Absolutely, but your conference isn't serious about the playoffs. Why should she fight for something that you yourselves aren't fighting that hard for.
Clearly playoffs aren't a priority for the PFL, otherwise you would take the necessary steps. Petition for an autobid, schedule tougher opponents, offer scholarships, or grant in aid (whatever the Patriot league calls it.)

[REALBird]

Welcome to the Gridiron Classic folks! When you schedule a game AFTER the I-AA playoffs were set to begin, then you either (A.) Didn't think you'd be playing for anything other than a PFL championship. (B.) Didn't look at the calendar when you scheduled games, despite the fact that you were expecting an undefeated season. or (C.) Weren't really interested in playing in the I-AA playoffs anyway!

Despite your lackluster schedule, the D-II schools, a victory over an IVY who also doesn't play in the I-AA playoffs, your scheduling debacle, and let's face it......overhype to the Nth degree. I still don't think USD deserves to be in the I-AA playoffs.

I would favor a 7-4 Northern Iowa, EIU, or another school rather than see the selection committee make a HUGE mistake. Schedule up next year! Get all 11 or 12 games in BEFORE the 1-AA playoffs begin, and run the table again.....then I might lend some credence to a USD playoff bid.

Heck I'd rather see the committee break all the rules and allow NDSU in the playoffs first before USD.

[BlueHen86]

Welcome to the Gridiron Classic folks! When you schedule a game AFTER the I-AA playoffs were set to begin, then you either (A.) Didn't think you'd be playing for anything other than a PFL championship. (B.) Didn't look at the calendar when you scheduled games, despite the fact that you were expecting an undefeated season. or (C.) Weren't really interested in playing in the I-AA playoffs anyway!

Despite your lackluster schedule, the D-II schools, a victory over an IVY who also doesn't play in the I-AA playoffs, your scheduling debacle, and let's face it......overhype to the Nth degree. I still don't think USD deserves to be in the I-AA playoffs.

I would favor a 7-4 Northern Iowa, EIU, or another school rather than see the selection committee make a HUGE mistake. Schedule up next year! Get all 11 or 12 games in BEFORE the 1-AA playoffs begin, and run the table again.....then I might lend some credence to a USD playoff bid.

Heck I'd rather see the committee break all the rules and allow NDSU in the playoffs first before USD.

Me too.:thumbsup:

[Torero Tradition]

You wouldn't want to see that and you know it!

[BigApp]

bump :D

[CopperCat]

According to Matt Doherty, Executive Director of I-AA football:

"Schedule strength: The committee will assess the overall strength of schedule, and expect who you play and who you beat to have a very significant role in the at-large playoff selections. The committee will scrutinize who is making up the wins and losses on a schedule as well as the quality of conference."

Not looking so good for USD so far.....

"More subjective than objective: While individual committee members can look at factors like polls and computer rankings ahead of time and have an awareness of the rankings, those indicators are not used in the final criteria for playoff selections by the committee."

Looks like your ranking isn't so great either.......

Don't believe me? Have a look for yourself.
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/

"Good wins/Bad losses: The committee will look at the quality of the wins and the quality of losses, so things like I-A wins and DII losses can play significant factors."

Quality of wins......Azusa Pacific?

"Playing an all Division I schedule is huge: Wins against non-Division I opponents are generally just set aside, so teams that play more than one lower- level team could be in jeopardy."

DAMN!!! Looks like USD might be playing in the Gridiron Classic after all. Better luck (i.e. scheduling) next year. :smiley_wi

[monmouthhawk]

According to Matt Doherty, Executive Director of I-AA football:

"Schedule strength: The committee will assess the overall strength of schedule, and expect who you play and who you beat to have a very significant role in the at-large playoff selections. The committee will scrutinize who is making up the wins and losses on a schedule as well as the quality of conference."

Not looking so good for USD so far.....

"More subjective than objective: While individual committee members can look at factors like polls and computer rankings ahead of time and have an awareness of the rankings, those indicators are not used in the final criteria for playoff selections by the committee."

Looks like your ranking isn't so great either.......

Don't believe me? Have a look for yourself.
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/

"Good wins/Bad losses: The committee will look at the quality of the wins and the quality of losses, so things like I-A wins and DII losses can play significant factors."

Quality of wins......Azusa Pacific?

"Playing an all Division I schedule is huge: Wins against non-Division I opponents are generally just set aside, so teams that play more than one lower- level team could be in jeopardy."

DAMN!!! Looks like USD might be playing in the Gridiron Classic after all. Better luck (i.e. scheduling) next year. :smiley_wi

According to these rules, Monmouth has a much better chance of going to the playoffs.

Date Opponent Time/Result Audio/Video
Sat, Sep 2 at Fordham W 23-9 --
Sat, Sep 9 Morgan State W 26-9 --
Sat, Sep 16 St. Peter's W 36-12 --
Sat, Sep 23 at Colgate W 17-12 --
Sat, Sep 30 Stony Brook L 17-36 --
Sat, Oct 7 Sacred Heart W 24-0 --
Sat, Oct 14 at Wagner W 28-7 --
Sat, Oct 21 at Robert Morris W 16-7 --
Sat, Oct 28 Central Connecticut State W 19-13 --
Sat, Nov 4 St. Francis (PA) W 54-20 --
Sat, Nov 11 at Albany W 19-0 --

[GannonFan]

According to these rules, Monmouth has a much better chance of going to the playoffs.

Date Opponent Time/Result Audio/Video
Sat, Sep 2 at Fordham W 23-9 --
Sat, Sep 9 Morgan State W 26-9 --
Sat, Sep 16 St. Peter's W 36-12 --
Sat, Sep 23 at Colgate W 17-12 --
Sat, Sep 30 Stony Brook L 17-36 --
Sat, Oct 7 Sacred Heart W 24-0 --
Sat, Oct 14 at Wagner W 28-7 --
Sat, Oct 21 at Robert Morris W 16-7 --
Sat, Oct 28 Central Connecticut State W 19-13 --
Sat, Nov 4 St. Francis (PA) W 54-20 --
Sat, Nov 11 at Albany W 19-0 --

I agree - I think we see Monmouth in the playoffs before we see San Diego, and I think it would be well deserved - beating Fordham and Colgate are good wins and playing Stony Brook, CCSU, and Albany are all schools that also went out and played (and sometimes beat) good competition. The NEC has shown that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put together a schedule a little bit harder in order to merit inclusion in the playoffs. :nod: