Teams in discussion for seeds

[achrist70]

I know that there is already a bracketology thread but I thought I would look at the teams that are in consideration for a seed

UNH- 10-1, with a loss to an average FBS team, did not play Villanova or James Madison in CAA action, so probably only beat 1 playoff team, maybe

NDSU- 11-1, Win over a poor FBS team, and 2-4 playoff teams (depending on this weekends results), with there loss coming to a playoff team, they did not play Illinois St. in conference

Coast Carolina- They have to be 12-0 to get a seed in my opinion, if they are 12-0 they beat 1 possible playoff team in NC A&T, other than that no quality wins

Jacksonville St. 10-1 Lost to a good Big 10 team and beat 2 playoff teams

Eastern Washington- 10-2 lost to a below average FBS team, and an average FCS team with a key injury, beat 1-3 playoff teams during the season

Villanova- Lost to an average FBS team, and possible FCS playoff team, beat 2-3 playoff teams, didn't play UNH in conference

Fordham- Lost to playoff team BIG, must beat poor FBS team to have a chance at a seed

Illinois State- Beat 2-3 FCS playoff teams, lost to playoff FCS team, played no FBS team, and didn't play NDSU in conference

Chatt- lost to 2 average FBS teams, and a FCS playoff team, beat no FCS playoff teams

SE Louisiana- Lost to poor FBS team and 2 possible playoff teams, beat 1-2 possible playoff teams

UNI- Lost to 2 FBS team and to 2 playoff teams by a total of 15 points, beat 2 probable seeded teams, and have won 5 straight

Montana State- Lost to an average FBS team, and a seeded FCS team, and an FCS team that won't make the playoffs, probably didn't beat any playoff teams

James Madison- Lost to an average, FBS team, a playoff FCS team, and another possible playoff team, they are on a big winning streak, including beating a good Richmond and William and Mary team, didn't play UNH in conference

Eastern Kentucky- Lost to a playoff team and a bad FCS team, beat a bad FBS team

All of this, is of dependent on these teams winning this weekend, with this information I would seed teams like this

1- NDSU
2- UNH
3- Jacksonville State
4- Illinois State
5- Eastern Washinton
6- UNI
7- Villanova
8- Coastal Carolina

[thebootfitter]

NDSU- 11-1, Win over a poor FBS team, and 2-4 playoff teams (depending on this weekends results), with there loss coming to a playoff team, they did not play Illinois St. in conference

This is a subjective judgment call, of course, and doesn't probably have any real bearing on this discussion, but I don't think it is fair to label Iowa State as a poor FBS team.

They are are sorry excuse for a Big 12 team, sure, but they would fare quite well against most of the G5 schools, in my opinion. They are ranked middle of the pack by both Sagarin and Massey. They have one of the toughest schedules in FBS this year (top 15 per both aforementioned computer models).

There is just no way they are in the same category as Georgia State, Eastern Michigan, Idaho, etc. Those are poor FBS teams.

Iowa State is slightly below average at worst, in my opinion.

Edited to add: There are a few other threads already discussing seeds too. Not that I care there is another one, but just thought you might like to know.

[Mattymc727]

Here we go again...

[PaladinFan]

UTC's going to be out of the conversation after this weekend. :)

[achrist70]

Crap, sorry, I wrote down James Madison on my notes, and rated them highly, but just completely forgot to type it, I'll edit it.

[CHIP72]

I'm sorry - there's no way a 2 loss Villanova team that lost in double OT by 1 point at Syracuse and by 1 point (due to a missed PAT) at Richmond should be behind a 4 loss Northern Iowa team, even if all of UNI's losses were to FBS or very good/good FCS teams.

Personally, I also think Villanova, assuming they beat Delaware, should be seeded ahead of Eastern Washington, but that's another story. Assuming the Wildcats finish 10-2, the only teams I'd seed ahead of them are, in alphabetical order, Coastal Carolina, Illinois State, Jacksonville State, New Hampshire, and North Dakota State (if all of those teams win their final regular season game).


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[dewey]

I'm sorry - there's no way a 2 loss Villanova team that lost in double OT by 1 point at Syracuse and by 1 point (due to a missed PAT) at Richmond should be behind a 4 loss Northern Iowa team, even if all of UNI's losses were to FBS or very good/good FCS teams.

Personally, I also think Villanova, assuming they beat Delaware, should be seeded ahead of Eastern Washington, but that's another story. Assuming the Wildcats finish 10-2, the only teams I'd seed ahead of them are, in alphabetical order, Coastal Carolina, Illinois State, Jacksonville State, New Hampshire, and North Dakota State (if all of those teams win their final regular season game).


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It would be hard to imagine 3 seeds from the same conference.

Dewey

[BigSouthFan]

I know that there is already a bracketology thread but I thought I would look at the teams that are in consideration for a seed

UNH- 10-1, with a loss to an average FBS team, did not play Villanova or James Madison in CAA action, so probably only beat 1 playoff team, maybe

NDSU- 11-1, Win over a poor FBS team, and 2-4 playoff teams (depending on this weekends results), with there loss coming to a playoff team, they did not play Illinois St. in conference

Coast Carolina- They have to be 12-0 to get a seed in my opinion, if they are 12-0 they beat 1 possible playoff team in NC A&T, other than that no quality wins

Jacksonville St. 10-1 Lost to a good Big 10 team and beat 2 playoff teams

Eastern Washington- 10-2 lost to a below average FBS team, and an average FCS team with a key injury, beat 1-3 playoff teams during the season

Villanova- Lost to an average FBS team, and possible FCS playoff team, beat 2-3 playoff teams, didn't play UNH in conference

Fordham- Lost to playoff team BIG, must beat poor FBS team to have a chance at a seed

Illinois State- Beat 2-3 FCS playoff teams, lost to playoff FCS team, played no FBS team, and didn't play NDSU in conference

Chatt- lost to 2 average FBS teams, and a FCS playoff team, beat no FCS playoff teams

SE Louisiana- Lost to poor FBS team and 2 possible playoff teams, beat 1-2 possible playoff teams

UNI- Lost to 2 FBS team and to 2 playoff teams by a total of 15 points, beat 2 probable seeded teams, and have won 5 straight

Montana State- Lost to an average FBS team, and a seeded FCS team, and an FCS team that won't make the playoffs, probably didn't beat any playoff teams

James Madison- Lost to an average, FBS team, a playoff FCS team, and another possible playoff team, they are on a big winning streak, including beating a good Richmond and William and Mary team, didn't play UNH in conference

Eastern Kentucky- Lost to a playoff team and a bad FCS team, beat a bad FBS team

All of this, is of dependent on these teams winning this weekend, with this information I would seed teams like this

1- NDSU
2- UNH
3- Jacksonville State
4- Illinois State
5- Eastern Washinton
6- UNI
7- Villanova
8- Coastal Carolina

With wins over South Carolina State, NC A&T, Charleston Southern, and probably Liberty this weekend, this is a highly disrespectful gesture towards the Chants. An improved 12-0 team that represented quite well before losing to NDSU in last year's playoffs. The #8 seed? Really?

[RabidRabbit]

And if you're listing those on out, toss in

Indiana St. - Poor FBS W, medium FBS L, 4 W's over possible play-offs, and 3 L's, 2 of which are likely seeds, and play-off likely.

SDSU - Top 30 FBS L, 3 W over play-off likely, and 3 L, 2 of which are likely seeds, and another potential play-off.

[FargoBison]

With wins over South Carolina State, NC A&T, Charleston Southern, and probably Liberty this weekend, this is a highly disrespectful gesture towards the Chants. An improved 12-0 team that represented quite well before losing to NDSU in last year's playoffs. The #8 seed? Really?

I would swap UNI and CCU....

[robsnotes4u]

With wins over South Carolina State, NC A&T, Charleston Southern, and probably Liberty this weekend, this is a highly disrespectful gesture towards the Chants. An improved 12-0 team that represented quite well before losing to NDSU in last year's playoffs. The #8 seed? Really?

Unless at team is scared to play anyone, like NDSU, what does the seed really mean? All it means is what side of the bracket you will be on, and a 1st round bye.

1, 8, 5,and 4 on one side
2, 7, 3, and 6 on the other side.

The other teams are not seeded, therefore, each seeded team has the same probabliity of a tough/weak opponent in the second round in theory. In reality, with the strength of the MVFC, and regionalization, the MVFC will probably beat up each other in the second round. In other words, seeding really doesn't come into play until the third round for those who are seeded.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Unless at team is scared to play anyone, like NDSU, what does the seed really mean? All it means is what side of the bracket you will be on, and a 1st round bye.

1, 8, 5,and 4 on one side
2, 7, 3, and 6 on the other side.

The other teams are not seeded, therefore, each seeded team has the same probabliity of a tough/weak opponent in the second round in theory. In reality, with the strength of the MVFC, and regionalization, the MVFC will probably beat up each other in the second round. In other words, seeding really doesn't come into play until the third round for those who are seeded.

1st round bye and a guaranteed home game. That's pretty important to the bottom 4 seeds.

[BigSouthFan]

1st round bye and a guaranteed home game. That's pretty important to the bottom 4 seeds.

Uhh yeah, I'd say that's pretty big! xthumbsupx

[robsnotes4u]

1st round bye and a guaranteed home game. That's pretty important to the bottom 4 seeds.

What is the advantage of a #1 seed over a #6 seed? That is the point. Not whether you get a seed or not.

1. they both get byes-no advantage
2. they both get home games-no advantage
3. the other 16 are not seeded, therefore, #1 is not guaranteed any easier matchup than #6-no advantage

[TypicalTribe]

With wins over South Carolina State, NC A&T, Charleston Southern, and probably Liberty this weekend, this is a highly disrespectful gesture towards the Chants. An improved 12-0 team that represented quite well before losing to NDSU in last year's playoffs. The #8 seed? Really?

I don't think it will happen because the 12-0 mark will stand out for the committee, but it's not hard to make a case that they should be #7 or #8. NDSU should be #1 based on body of work. UNH and Jax St haven't lost an FCS game either and have played better schedules. Ill State only has one loss, has beaten 3 top 15 teams in the computer rankings and will likely tie for the MVFC title. EWU only has one FCS loss by a point without its QB and has wins over the potential SLC champs (SHSU) and three of the possible Big Sky playoff teams. Villanova lost two games by 1 point each and has rolled thru the CAA pretty easily and has a 44 point win over another borderline seed. Coastal doesn't clearly have a better resume than any of those teams. Heck , Chatty only has one FCS loss and it was in OT to Jax St.

[Hammerhead]

The #1 and #2 seeds are guaranteed home games until the championship game, assuming they can meet the minimum bid to host a game.

Seed #6 would likely be on the road in the quarterfinals and semifinal games.


What is the advantage of a #1 seed over a #6 seed? That is the point. Not whether you get a seed or not.

1. they both get byes-no advantage
2. they both get home games-no advantage
3. the other 16 are not seeded, therefore, #1 is not guaranteed any easier matchup than #6-no advantage

[CHIP72]

It would be hard to imagine 3 seeds from the same conference.

Dewey

Which league is getting three seeds in the scenario I outlined?


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[Cocky]

This is a subjective judgment call, of course, and doesn't probably have any real bearing on this discussion, but I don't think it is fair to label Iowa State as a poor FBS team.

They are are sorry excuse for a Big 12 team, sure, but they would fare quite well against most of the G5 schools, in my opinion. They are ranked middle of the pack by both Sagarin and Massey. They have one of the toughest schedules in FBS this year (top 15 per both aforementioned computer models).

There is just no way they are in the same category as Georgia State, Eastern Michigan, Idaho, etc. Those are poor FBS teams.

Iowa State is slightly below average at worst, in my opinion.

Edited to add: There are a few other threads already discussing seeds too. Not that I care there is another one, but just thought you might like to know.
if you upgrade Iowa St. to good then Tennessee would have to be upgraded to great FBS team for UTC.

SELA loss to SEMO not sure how you have them listed? SEMO shouldn't make the playoffs.

[thebootfitter]

if you upgrade Iowa St. to good then Tennessee would have to be upgraded to great FBS team for UTC.

SELA loss to SEMO not sure how you have them listed? SEMO shouldn't make the playoffs.
I didn't say "good." I suggested slightly below average. But again, I recognize this is a subjective judgment call with little impact. My only real point is that Iowa State is not as bad as people make them out to be.

[Twentysix]

What is the advantage of a #1 seed over a #6 seed? That is the point. Not whether you get a seed or not.

1. they both get byes-no advantage
2. they both get home games-no advantage
3. the other 16 are not seeded, therefore, #1 is not guaranteed any easier matchup than #6-no advantage

The #6 seed is forced into potential road games after their first game in the playoffs.

The #1 seed gets home games all the way to Frisco, that is the single largest controllable advantage you can grant your team.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The #6 seed is forced into potential road games after their first game in the playoffs.

The #1 seed gets home games all the way to Frisco, that is the single largest controllable advantage you can grant your team.
I thought that was obvious. That's why I only mentioned the bottom four seeds.

[Aeacos]

I didn't say "good." I suggested slightly below average. But again, I recognize this is a subjective judgment call with little impact. My only real point is that Iowa State is not as bad as people make them out to be.

They did just lose to Kansas.

[jmrepak]

From the Coastal fans to the haters....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPXqkjpXZ_k

[NoDak 4 Ever]

They did just lose to Kansas.

Kansas in on a "roll" since Weis got fired. Clint Bowen might be the guy to turn them around.

As for Iowa State, one of their two wins this year was over the aforementioned "average" FBS team that beat UNH.

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From the Coastal fans to the haters....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPXqkjpXZ_k

put away the persecution complex. Nobody hates CCU

[jmrepak]

put away the persecution complex. Nobody hates CCU
The video was just for laughs. I can't sit here and honestly say CCU is being disrespected by being ranked anywhere in the top 5. The reality is that we will probably get the 3 seed or maybe 4, IMO, but its fun to joke about the fans from other top 10 schools trying to pull Coastal down with 3 days until selection is announced. Hell, I'm doing the same thing in other threads about UNH. It's just good fun

[robsnotes4u]

The #6 seed is forced into potential road games after their first game in the playoffs.

The #1 seed gets home games all the way to Frisco, that is the single largest controllable advantage you can grant your team.

I would agree, it can be an advantage

Last year the first 24 team playoff
3 seeded (home teams out) lost in the second round #8, #5, #6. 8 games
2 seeded (home team out) lost in the third round #2, #4 4 games
1 seeded (home team) lost in the fourth round #3 2 games

[CasualFan]

What more can CCU do? Preseason #8 (AGS poll), won 11 out of 11 with 9 by 10+ points, and had an OOC schedule that wasn't as difficult as hoped at the beginning of the season. Oh well, we've most likely got tickets to the dance, it is just a matter of where.

[jmrepak]

I would agree, it can be an advantage

Last year the first 24 team playoff
3 seeded (home teams out) lost in the second round #8, #5, #6. 8 games
2 seeded (home team out) lost in the third round #2, #4 4 games
1 seeded (home team) lost in the fourth round #3 2 games
The funny thing about that is when you look at the potential seeds this year and who caused those losses... Out of the 6 seeds that lost to unseeded or lower seeds UNH beat 2 seeds and Coastal and Jax St. each beat 1...Not so much Towson being a 7 seed and beating the 2 and 3, but the rest of it is interesting.

[UNHWildcat18]

Kansas in on a "roll" since Weis got fired. Clint Bowen might be the guy to turn them around.

As for Iowa State, one of their two wins this year was over the aforementioned "average" FBS team that beat UNH.

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put away the persecution complex. Nobody hates CCU


Toledo has been in MAC championship contention for the last 4 years. I know NIU has stolen the show for the most part. I think we are better than that game if we played them again. I really have no clue what happened.

[AmsterBison]

Just to make it clear: There is a difference between a poor BCS team and a poor FBS team.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Toledo has been in MAC championship contention for the last 4 years. I know NIU has stolen the show for the most part. I think we are better than that game if we played them again. I really have no clue what happened.

The last time NDSU played a MAC champion, they won 44-14.

[Bisonator]

What more can CCU do? Preseason #8 (AGS poll), won 11 out of 11 with 9 by 10+ points, and had an OOC schedule that wasn't as difficult as hoped at the beginning of the season. Oh well, we've most likely got tickets to the dance, it is just a matter of where.

At the end of the day your in, make the most of it. Hell you went and beat UM last year. You can make another run.

[jmufan999]

What more can CCU do?

it's simple:

1.) join a better conference, or
2.) get the other Big South teams to collectively improve the perception of conference strength

those are just about the only options. #2 is obviously more feasible since we would have no idea if there are plans for CCU to leave the Big South. but you need other teams to not only make the playoffs, but make a deep run... and do it often. it can't be just Coastal dominating every year from now on, conference strength is top to bottom.

get Liberty to make a quarterfinal. you guys make it to the national semis. someone win a national title. get some major postseason awards. get an unlikely FBS upset. schedule difficult OOC FCS games and win them.

you need the OVERALL perception of your conference to improve, not just CCU's reputation.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

it's simple:

1.) join a better conference, or
2.) get the other Big South teams to collectively improve the perception of conference strength

those are just about the only options. #2 is obviously more feasible since we would have no idea if there are plans for CCU to leave the Big South. but you need other teams to not only make the playoffs, but make a deep run... and do it often. it can't be just Coastal dominating every year from now on, conference strength is top to bottom.

get Liberty to make a quarterfinal. you guys make it to the national semis. someone win a national title. get some major postseason awards. get an unlikely FBS upset. schedule difficult OOC FCS games and win them.

you need the OVERALL perception of your conference to improve, not just CCU's reputation.

This.

Nobody is saying CCU doesn't deserve to be in the playoff field but their resume this year isn't worthy of a top seed.

[FargoBison]

Craig Haley, the TSN guru of the FCS has CCU ranked 6th in his poll, to me that is a telling perspective from an unbiased observer.

[UNHWildcat18]

The last time NDSU played a MAC champion, they won 44-14.

Yeah not doubting you did, I think the MAC was worse back then but still you stomped them
We beat Northwestern (4-8) overall by a larger margin than the number 2 team in the nation(Michigan) back in 2006.(none of previous wins ect like you mentioned really matter.)
All I was saying is that Toledo has been a good team out of the non PF5 conferences the last few years vs losing to a team like EMU or UCONN. Just wish we had another crack at them. Also Toledo lost their starting QB during the Missouri Game and their backup while not as good as Ely has lead them to a winning season.

Getting back to the discussion however, I think regardless of if the top 5 all win. NDSU will leapfrog back to a 1/2 seed. all the other positions are likely to stay for 1-4. 5-8 depend on Fordham UNI heavily.

[kalm]

I know that there is already a bracketology thread but I thought I would look at the teams that are in consideration for a seed

UNH- 10-1, with a loss to an average FBS team, did not play Villanova or James Madison in CAA action, so probably only beat 1 playoff team, maybe

NDSU- 11-1, Win over a poor FBS team, and 2-4 playoff teams (depending on this weekends results), with there loss coming to a playoff team, they did not play Illinois St. in conference

Coast Carolina- They have to be 12-0 to get a seed in my opinion, if they are 12-0 they beat 1 possible playoff team in NC A&T, other than that no quality wins

Jacksonville St. 10-1 Lost to a good Big 10 team and beat 2 playoff teams

Eastern Washington- 10-2 lost to a below average FBS team, and an average FCS team with a key injury, beat 1-3 playoff teams during the season

Villanova- Lost to an average FBS team, and possible FCS playoff team, beat 2-3 playoff teams, didn't play UNH in conference

Fordham- Lost to playoff team BIG, must beat poor FBS team to have a chance at a seed

Illinois State- Beat 2-3 FCS playoff teams, lost to playoff FCS team, played no FBS team, and didn't play NDSU in conference

Chatt- lost to 2 average FBS teams, and a FCS playoff team, beat no FCS playoff teams

SE Louisiana- Lost to poor FBS team and 2 possible playoff teams, beat 1-2 possible playoff teams

UNI- Lost to 2 FBS team and to 2 playoff teams by a total of 15 points, beat 2 probable seeded teams, and have won 5 straight

Montana State- Lost to an average FBS team, and a seeded FCS team, and an FCS team that won't make the playoffs, probably didn't beat any playoff teams

James Madison- Lost to an average, FBS team, a playoff FCS team, and another possible playoff team, they are on a big winning streak, including beating a good Richmond and William and Mary team, didn't play UNH in conference

Eastern Kentucky- Lost to a playoff team and a bad FCS team, beat a bad FBS team

All of this, is of dependent on these teams winning this weekend, with this information I would seed teams like this

1- NDSU
2- UNH
3- Jacksonville State
4- Illinois State
5- Eastern Washinton
6- UNI
7- Villanova
8- Coastal Carolina

Thanks for doing the leg work , but Washington is below average (will probably finish 7-5) but 7-4 Toledo from the MAC and a 3-7 Syracuse are average?

A 7 point loss to Washington is WAY better than UNH's loss and at least equal to Nova's if not also better.

At 7-4 I would place NAU as above average and potentially a 5th FCS ranked team we've played.

We'll have quality FCS wins against either a 9-3, two 8-4's and a 7-5 or 4 quality wins against 4 8-4 teams, all 4 of which will be ranked and 2-3 of which will be in the playoffs.

Based on quality wins and losses and overall strength of schedule, the two clear cut best resume's right now are ISUr and NDSU. CCU, Nova, UNH, EWU, and JSU should all be toss ups.

[Cocky]

Just to make it clear: There is a difference between a poor BCS team and a poor FBS team.
Iowa State isnt very good in any FBS classification.

[thebootfitter]

Iowa State isnt very good in any FBS classification.
I'm very curious to hear your justification for this position.

[FargoBison]

If I was to make the seeds....

1. NDSU
2. EWU
3. Illinois State
4. UNH
5. JSU
6. Nova
7. CCU
8. UNI

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Iowa State isnt very good in any FBS classification.

They would probably win the MAC.

[Gil Dobie]

NDSU- 11-1, Win over a poor FBS team, and 2-4 playoff teams (depending on this weekends results), with there loss coming to a playoff team, they did not play Illinois St. in conference


The weak FBS team beat Iowa, and an average Toledo that beat UNH.

[Panther-State]

Iowa State isnt very good in any FBS classification.

You really think the MAC is that close to the Big XII? Iowa State would be a regular contender in the MAC, not champion perhaps, but a definite contender. I really enjoy seeing ISU spiral further into irrelevancy but when you have hardly any notable football tradition how are you supposed to compete against a Texas, Oklahoma (& State) and company. They don't have a snowballs chance in hell at ever becoming relevant in that conference for football, but that doesn't mean the team they field is automatically one of the worst in the country.

This is the exact opposite of the arguments for Coastal, Chattanooga and others. You can't judge exclusively from the record and just assume all else was equal. Judging Iowa State as one of the nations worse teams (below the middling-bottom teams of the MAC, CUSA, Sun Belt, MWC, etc...) for only having 2 wins is no different than claiming that Harvard is a Top 3 team because they have 0 losses.

[CasualFan]

Your point is taken. I would answer with this:


1.) join a better conference, or

We tried. SoCon wanted VMI and Mercer in the most recent attempt. The only other conferences around us are the MEAC and the Pioneer.



2.) get the other Big South teams to collectively improve the perception of conference strength

By some measures, the Big South is #2 in the FCS. Granted, those were computers. Most BSo teams did pretty well OOC. Haven't we had half of our 6 teams ranked over the course of the year? The argument works when its about the MVFC beating each other up.

[kalm]

Your point is taken. I would answer with this:

We tried. SoCon wanted VMI and Mercer in the most recent attempt. The only other conferences around us are the MEAC and the Pioneer.


By some measures, the Big South is #2 in the FCS. Granted, those were computers. Most BSo teams did pretty well OOC. Haven't we had half of our 6 teams ranked over the course of the year? The argument works when its about the MVFC beating each other up.

But the MVFC is also beating up the Big Sky, the Southland, the MAC, and the Big 12

[UNIFanSince1983]

Toledo has been in MAC championship contention for the last 4 years. I know NIU has stolen the show for the most part. I think we are better than that game if we played them again. I really have no clue what happened.

No doubt that Toledo has been decent in the MAC. The issue is Iowa State beat a Toledo team that could possibly win their division of the MAC (with help from NIU). To call Iowa State poor and Toledo average is horrible. Iowa State won't win a game in the Big 12 yet beat a team that will finish 7-1 in the MAC barring a massive meltdown against EMU.

Iowa State is terrible in the Big 12, but would be more than competitive in the MAC, Mtn West, etc.

[UNHFootballAlum]

Toledo has been in MAC championship contention for the last 4 years. I know NIU has stolen the show for the most part. I think we are better than that game if we played them again. I really have no clue what happened.

They are also on their 4th string QB and played Iowa State without their Alabama transfer QB. This would have made a huge difference in this game

[Rjones61]

Eastern Washington- 10-2 lost to a below average FBS team, and an average FCS team with a key injury, beat 1-3 playoff teams during the season


UW will finish 8-5 at the end of the season as a Pac-12 team. How is that below average? While Villanova faces Syracuse (3-7), is considered average?

[Gil Dobie]

They are also on their 4th string QB and played Iowa State without their Alabama transfer QB. This would have made a huge difference in this game

Looks like it was the 2nd stinger that played against Iowa St. Toledo was 5-2 with him starting.

[jmrepak]

it's simple:

1.) join a better conference, or
2.) get the other Big South teams to collectively improve the perception of conference strength

those are just about the only options. #2 is obviously more feasible since we would have no idea if there are plans for CCU to leave the Big South. but you need other teams to not only make the playoffs, but make a deep run... and do it often. it can't be just Coastal dominating every year from now on, conference strength is top to bottom.

get Liberty to make a quarterfinal. you guys make it to the national semis. someone win a national title. get some major postseason awards. get an unlikely FBS upset. schedule difficult OOC FCS games and win them.

you need the OVERALL perception of your conference to improve, not just CCU's reputation.
Response to your suggestions...

1. We are a powerhouse when it comes to athletics. Our soccer team was top 25 most of the year and is hosting a first round game this week. Baseball has been a little soft the last two years, but prior to that we were top 25 and hosted regionals and super regionals for 2 or 3 years running. Our basketball team isn't terrible, but does have a really, really ridiculously soft OOC home schedule this year. They had the 2nd longest winning streak in the country a few years ago and nearly cracked the top 25. We also went to the tourney last year, but lost a decent first round game. We also have a great track and field team that have won every conference championship the last couple of years. We invest significantly in facilities for all sports and have some of the absolute best venues. We have a brand new basketball/volleyball arena, a 10-year old 10,000 seat stadium, new soccer facilities, new hitting facilites, a very nice new baseball and softball complex, a new tennis complex going in, and teal colored field turf going in next year for football and our new women's lacrosse program. Hell, we even own our own golf course for our top 25 golf team. However, for all of the positive things we have going in athletics we just haven't been able to get any interest. The SoCon makes more since, but Furman, Citadel and Wofford don't really want to compete against us for recruits because lets face, the beach is always going to win. The CAA would be nice, but more of their schools have a long history, smaller enrollments, big endowments, high end academics and other than CofC and UNC-W have a pretty clear Northeastern focus. CCU, on the other hand, has only been independent for 21 years, 10,000 students and rapidly growing, has a small but growing endowment, has vastly improving yet still middle of the road academic quality and a Southern presence. We are also not in a reasonably sized metropolitan/media market in Myrtle Beach with many of our alumni scattered all over the eastern seaboard. At the end of the day we would love a better conference to give us a shot, but that's just not going to happen at this point.

2. At least this was a step towards improvement...
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?155253-Big-South-s-New-Non-Div-I-Scheduling-Rule&highlight=south+division
However, if Liberty improves too much they will probably get the FBS invite that they are longing for and that will basically kill the quality of competition in the Big South.

[Bison56]

UW will finish 8-5 at the end of the season as a Pac-12 team. How is that below average? While Villanova faces Syracuse (3-7), is considered average?

I didn't see any comments about the FBS teams that played UNI they were just FBS teams not below average, average, etc. hmmmmmm

[UNIFanSince1983]

I didn't see any comments about the FBS teams that played UNI they were just FBS teams not below average, average, etc. hmmmmmm

Iowa is average. Hawaii is below average to poor.

[Bison56]

Iowa is average. Hawaii is below average to poor.

Thank you for clarifying that.

[FordhamFan]

Iowa State is a good FBS win. That's not a discussion.

Definitely the best one of the year from the FCS.

[thebootfitter]

Iowa State is a good FBS win. That's not a discussion.

Definitely the best one of the year from the FCS.
The OP, aeacos and Cocky seem to think it is debatable. The only point in their favor posted so far is that Kansas beat them. Fair point, but there are many other points that I would argue trump that one point.

They beat Iowa. They beat Toledo. They came darn close to beating a very good Kansas State. They lost a close one against Texas. And as I posted before, in two well-regarded and objective computer rating systems, they are ranked in the middle Tier of FBS teams. If they were an FCS team, Sagarin would place them at the sixth highest place.

As I suggested before, they are a poor excuse for a Big 12 team, but they are far better than aeacos and Cocky appear to be giving them credit for.

[AmsterBison]

Iowa State isnt very good in any FBS classification.

Not good enough to win a game in the Big 12 from the looks of it, but they beat Iowa, beat Toledo, scored 40+ on Texas, and had a great shot of beating Kansas State. I'm pretty sure that they'd have done pretty well in a non-BCS league. Doesn't change the fact that NDSU didn't just beat them, NDSU held them to their lowest point total of the season just like they did with Kansas State last year and Colorado State the year before that.

[Cocky]

The OP, aeacos and Cocky seem to think it is debatable. The only point in their favor posted so far is that Kansas beat them. Fair point, but there are many other points that I would argue trump that one point.

They beat Iowa. They beat Toledo. They came darn close to beating a very good Kansas State. They lost a close one against Texas. And as I posted before, in two well-regarded and objective computer rating systems, they are ranked in the middle Tier of FBS teams. If they were an FCS team, Sagarin would place them at the sixth highest place.

As I suggested before, they are a poor excuse for a Big 12 team, but they are far better than aeacos and Cocky appear to be giving them credit for.

Iowa St. is a good FBS win. But Iowa St. isn't a good FBS team. No FCS team should beat any P5 team even one which loss to Kansas.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Iowa St. is a good FBS win. But Iowa St. isn't a good FBS team. No FCS team should beat any P5 team even one which loss to Kansas.

Really? NDSU has done it 3 times in 4 years.

[Cocky]

Really? NDSU has done it 3 times in 4 years.

I would call that three good wins. And no NDSU shouldn't win those game. If a P5 school can't out recruit and coach a FCS team the coach should be fired.

Dont know all of the history but most of those coaches have been fired. Muschamp (GaSo) Nutt (JSU), you ever was coaching (App St)...

[UNHWildcat18]

I would call that three good wins. And no NDSU shouldn't win those game. If a P5 school can't out recruit and coach a FCS team the coach should be fired.

Dont know all of the history but most of those coaches have been fired. Muschamp (GaSo) Nutt (JSU), you ever was coaching (App St)...


That is 100 percent true. But then again the talent NDSU has brought in over the last 5 years I wouldn't classify as FCS, obviously i dont mean majority of players but a larger chunk than most schools that can steal an fbs level recruit or two from a lower fbs conference

[caribbeanhen]

With wins over South Carolina State, NC A&T, Charleston Southern, and probably Liberty this weekend, this is a highly disrespectful gesture towards the Chants. An improved 12-0 team that represented quite well before losing to NDSU in last year's playoffs. The #8 seed? Really?

the Chants just might make some serious noise in the playoffs....
looking forward to seeing them out talent a MVFC team..

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I would call that three good wins. And no NDSU shouldn't win those game. If a P5 school can't out recruit and coach a FCS team the coach should be fired.

Dont know all of the history but most of those coaches have been fired. Muschamp (GaSo) Nutt (JSU), you ever was coaching (App St)...


Oh really?

NDSU was the better team in every FBS game they have won the last five years. Yes, they deserved to win those games because they had better players, coaches and whatever else you want to add to it. Reading your posts on here is really interesting. Try to pooh pooh it all you want but Iowa State, this year, would beat almost every FCS team, if not all of them.

[Cocky]

Oh really?

NDSU was the better team in every FBS game they have won the last five years. Yes, they deserved to win those games because they had better players, coaches and whatever else you want to add to it. Reading your posts on here is really interesting. Try to pooh pooh it all you want but Iowa State, this year, would beat almost every FCS team, if not all of them.


Who said you didn't deserve to win? Iowa St, in a P5 conference, has every advantage in the world over NDSU. The same was true when we beat Ole Miss, JSU should not beat a SEC team.

Iowa St is a GOOD win for NDSU but Iowa St is not a good FBS team.

[dewey]

I actually agree with you Cocky. A P5 team with an enormous athletic budget, more scholarship athletes and more coaches should always beat a FCS school.

I don't think Cocky is saying that NDSU wasn't better than those teams. We all know that NDSU was better than the FBS teams they have played the last 5 years.

Is Iowa State a good P5 team I would say no. However they are better than Iowa and Toledo.

NDSU has done a great job scheduling FBS teams from areas that they are trying to recruit and FBS games that are winnable and not just a big paycheck. There were rumors about Florida State and Oklahoma asking NDSU about a game in 2013 and NDSU...IMHO did the right thing and said no thank you.

Dewey

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I actually agree with you Cocky. A P5 team with an enormous athletic budget, more scholarship athletes and more coaches should always beat a FCS school.

I don't think Cocky is saying that NDSU wasn't better than those teams. We all know that NDSU was better than the FBS teams they have played the last 5 years.

Dewey


IMO, this doesn't mean jack squat with most FBS teams. Elite FCS teams can compete with most FBS schools on any given day. A full slate of P5 games every week would be different. But, FBS kids put their pads on the same way FCS kids do and very good, disciplined FCS teams can knock off FBS schools. NDSU has consistently proven it.....8-3 vs FBS teams.

NDSU has been the better team in each one of those games. $$, schollies, facilities, 3-4-5 star recruits.....it didn't matter. The Bison were the better team and in most cases, significantly better....CSU, MN and ISU.

I really wish NDSU had the money to add FBS football because with 22 more scholarships, this team would be a good FBS team.

[Cocky]

IMO, this doesn't mean jack squat with most FBS teams. Elite FCS teams can compete with most FBS schools on any given day. A full slate of P5 games every week would be different. But, FBS kids put their pads on the same way FCS kids do and very good, disciplined FCS teams can knock off FBS schools. NDSU has consistently proven it.....8-3 vs FBS teams.

NDSU has been the better team in each one of those games. $$, schollies, facilities, 3-4-5 star recruits.....it didn't matter. The Bison were the better team and in most cases, significantly better....CSU, MN and ISU.

I really wish NDSU had the money to add FBS football because with 22 more scholarships, this team would be a good FBS team.

I agree with you on all but the last sentence which is your opinion and I have no say so.

I believe we are discussing to different points. You should thank your coaches, staff and administration everyday for out working the FBS competition.

[dewey]

IMO, this doesn't mean jack squat with most FBS teams. Elite FCS teams can compete with most FBS schools on any given day. A full slate of P5 games every week would be different. But, FBS kids put their pads on the same way FCS kids do and very good, disciplined FCS teams can knock off FBS schools. NDSU has consistently proven it.....8-3 vs FBS teams.

NDSU has been the better team in each one of those games. $$, schollies, facilities, 3-4-5 star recruits.....it didn't matter. The Bison were the better team and in most cases, significantly better....CSU, MN and ISU.

I really wish NDSU had the money to add FBS football because with 22 more scholarships, this team would be a good FBS team.

I am NOT saying that NDSU was not better than those FBS teams as I know they were and so does everyone else. What I am saying and Cocky is as well as those other schools should not lose games to FCS schools due to their significant advantage in other areas.

I am glad NDSU is not FBS as we would have no chance to win a National Championship but be relegated to some crap bowl game.

Dewey

[dewey]

You should thank your coaches, staff and administration everyday for out working the FBS competition.

Exactly! Or coaches and administration have done and amazing job for over 50 years.

Dewey

[Sycamore62]

Lloyd Carr

[UNIFanSince1983]

I actually agree with you Cocky. A P5 team with an enormous athletic budget, more scholarship athletes and more coaches should always beat a FCS school.

I don't think Cocky is saying that NDSU wasn't better than those teams. We all know that NDSU was better than the FBS teams they have played the last 5 years.

Is Iowa State a good P5 team I would say no. However they are better than Iowa and Toledo.

NDSU has done a great job scheduling FBS teams from areas that they are trying to recruit and FBS games that are winnable and not just a big paycheck. There were rumors about Florida State and Oklahoma asking NDSU about a game in 2013 and NDSU...IMHO did the right thing and said no thank you.

Dewey

Living in this great state of Iowa and having seen both Iowa and Iowa State more than I care to Iowa State is not a better team than Iowa. They were better on the September Saturday they played, but they were not the better team. I don't think you can argue that some team is better just because they beat them. They were better on that day, but that doesn't mean they were actually the better overall team. I think the records of each team speak to that.

[Red & Black]

I know that there is already a bracketology thread but I thought I would look at the teams that are in consideration for a seed

UNH- 10-1, with a loss to an average FBS team, did not play Villanova or James Madison in CAA action, so probably only beat 1 playoff team, maybe

NDSU- 11-1, Win over a poor FBS team, and 2-4 playoff teams (depending on this weekends results), with there loss coming to a playoff team, they did not play Illinois St. in conference

Coast Carolina- They have to be 12-0 to get a seed in my opinion, if they are 12-0 they beat 1 possible playoff team in NC A&T, other than that no quality wins

Jacksonville St. 10-1 Lost to a good Big 10 team and beat 2 playoff teams

Eastern Washington- 10-2 lost to a below average FBS team, and an average FCS team with a key injury, beat 1-3 playoff teams during the season

Villanova- Lost to an average FBS team, and possible FCS playoff team, beat 2-3 playoff teams, didn't play UNH in conference

Fordham- Lost to playoff team BIG, must beat poor FBS team to have a chance at a seed

Illinois State- Beat 2-3 FCS playoff teams, lost to playoff FCS team, played no FBS team, and didn't play NDSU in conference

Chatt- lost to 2 average FBS teams, and a FCS playoff team, beat no FCS playoff teams

SE Louisiana- Lost to poor FBS team and 2 possible playoff teams, beat 1-2 possible playoff teams

UNI- Lost to 2 FBS team and to 2 playoff teams by a total of 15 points, beat 2 probable seeded teams, and have won 5 straight

Montana State- Lost to an average FBS team, and a seeded FCS team, and an FCS team that won't make the playoffs, probably didn't beat any playoff teams

James Madison- Lost to an average, FBS team, a playoff FCS team, and another possible playoff team, they are on a big winning streak, including beating a good Richmond and William and Mary team, didn't play UNH in conference

Eastern Kentucky- Lost to a playoff team and a bad FCS team, beat a bad FBS team

All of this, is of dependent on these teams winning this weekend, with this information I would seed teams like this

1- NDSU
2- UNH
3- Jacksonville State
4- Illinois State
5- Eastern Washinton
6- UNI
7- Villanova
8- Coastal Carolina

I think you are confused if you really believe Washington is "below average" as compared to the wider FBS.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CHIP72]

I really wish NDSU had the money to add FBS football because with 22 more scholarships, this team would be a good FBS team.

You're on drugs if you believe that. I'm serious. If NDSU played at the Division I-A level, the advantage that NDSU has of being a big fish in a small pond (i.e. in a state where a Division I-AA program is the top college football program) would be negated; they'd instead become a relatively small fish in a big pond. NDSU currently can probably get guys who want to start multiple years, rather than start only a limited number of games or be a career backup as they would be at the Division I-A level. If instead NDSU played at the Division I-A level, they'd have to compete directly recruiting-wise with more prominent, higher visibility schools in larger states. I can't see NDSU winning recruiting battles against other upper Midwest or Great Plains schools like Nebraska or Wisconsin. They'd lose their "little school that could" mentality that they currently have when playing Division I-A schools. Practically-speaking, there also wouldn't be a league where NDSU would fit - the non-major (non-P5) conferences wouldn't make geographic sense (and players wouldn't have as much interest in playing for NDSU), and they'd nothing of value market-wise to the major (P5) conferences that would make geographic sense (Big Ten and Big 12).

[Red & Black]

Who said you didn't deserve to win? Iowa St, in a P5 conference, has every advantage in the world over NDSU. The same was true when we beat Ole Miss, JSU should not beat a SEC team.

Iowa St is a GOOD win for NDSU but Iowa St is not a good FBS team.

EWU beat an AP top 25 P5 team last season. On that day, we were the better team. It doesn't matter if one team "should" beat the other...Any Given Saturday.


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[UNH Fanboi]

No doubt that Toledo has been decent in the MAC. The issue is Iowa State beat a Toledo team that could possibly win their division of the MAC (with help from NIU). To call Iowa State poor and Toledo average is horrible. Iowa State won't win a game in the Big 12 yet beat a team that will finish 7-1 in the MAC barring a massive meltdown against EMU. Iowa State is terrible in the Big 12, but would be more than competitive in the MAC, Mtn West, etc. Toledo lost their star QB, a transfer from Bama, the game after they played UNH. Toledo would probably be 9-2, with wins over Iowa St. and NIU, if he had played the whole season. I think UNH would play the current Toledo squad much more closely.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Toledo lost their star QB, a transfer from Bama, the game after they played UNH. Toledo would probably be 9-2, with wins over Iowa St. and NIU, if he had played the whole season. I think UNH would play the current Toledo squad much more closely.

as long as we're thinking, I think NDSU could murder Toledo with AJ ****ing McCarron at QB.


coulda woulda shoulda.

[dudeitsaid]

Oh really?

NDSU was the better team in every FBS game they have won the last five years. Yes, they deserved to win those games because they had better players, coaches and whatever else you want to add to it. Reading your posts on here is really interesting. Try to pooh pooh it all you want but Iowa State, this year, would beat almost every FCS team, if not all of them.

I do think that it makes sense to say that FBS teams should ALWAYS beat FCS teams, just like FCS team should always beat Division II teams. But that obviously isn't always the case. Even losing to NDSU, and other top FCS teams is considered a bad loss by FBS teams, though we know it isn't as bad as it may seem. But they know they should beat ever step-down opponent.

What makes NDSU's FBS wins so impressive, as compared to most, if not all other FCS upsets of FBS teams is that they've done it regularly over the last five years. And I have to believe that when they face an FBS opponent, those teams are likely not taking them as lightly as other FBS teams may take their FCS opponents. We might "surprise" a team. But I don't think NDSU does. Yet, they still win! That's what blows me away.

(That's why it will be so shocking when EWU beats them this year! :p)

[UNHWildcat18]

as long as we're thinking, I think NDSU could murder Toledo with AJ ****ing McCarron at QB.


coulda woulda shoulda.


As long as the team isn't named UNI you probably would

[Twentysix]

As long as the team isn't named UNI you probably would

xthumbsupx I see that clenz has gotten to you, what is he offering? I'll double it.

[dewey]

Living in this great state of Iowa and having seen both Iowa and Iowa State more than I care to Iowa State is not a better team than Iowa. They were better on the September Saturday they played, but they were not the better team. I don't think you can argue that some team is better just because they beat them. They were better on that day, but that doesn't mean they were actually the better overall team. I think the records of each team speak to that.

Agreed. Iowa State was better than Iowa on that day and that is what I meant.

Dewey

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

You're on drugs if you believe that. I'm serious. If NDSU played at the Division I-A level, the advantage that NDSU has of being a big fish in a small pond (i.e. in a state where a Division I-AA program is the top college football program) would be negated; they'd instead become a relatively small fish in a big pond. NDSU currently can probably get guys who want to start multiple years, rather than start only a limited number of games or be a career backup as they would be at the Division I-A level. If instead NDSU played at the Division I-A level, they'd have to compete directly recruiting-wise with more prominent, higher visibility schools in larger states. I can't see NDSU winning recruiting battles against other upper Midwest or Great Plains schools like Nebraska or Wisconsin. They'd lose their "little school that could" mentality that they currently have when playing Division I-A schools. Practically-speaking, there also wouldn't be a league where NDSU would fit - the non-major (non-P5) conferences wouldn't make geographic sense (and players wouldn't have as much interest in playing for NDSU), and they'd nothing of value market-wise to the major (P5) conferences that would make geographic sense (Big Ten and Big 12).


xlolxxlolx

I didn't know I was on drugs!

There are many very good football players out there and they can not all go to P5 schools. NDSU would do just fine with 22 more schollies. Would they be a NC contender? Probably not but who says they couldn't be. If the playoff field expanded to 8 or 16 teams, IMO they could sneak in every so often to compete for it. Now our stadium would probably be a liability in a FBS future but NDSU could compete with the "big boys".

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I do think that it makes sense to say that FBS teams should ALWAYS beat FCS teams, just like FCS team should always beat Division II teams. But that obviously isn't always the case. Even losing to NDSU, and other top FCS teams is considered a bad loss by FBS teams, though we know it isn't as bad as it may seem. But they know they should beat ever step-down opponent.

What makes NDSU's FBS wins so impressive, as compared to most, if not all other FCS upsets of FBS teams is that they've done it regularly over the last five years. And I have to believe that when they face an FBS opponent, those teams are likely not taking them as lightly as other FBS teams may take their FCS opponents. We might "surprise" a team. But I don't think NDSU does. Yet, they still win! That's what blows me away.

(That's why it will be so shocking when EWU beats them this year! :p)


Because they were the better team on that day and on probably any other day also. Go listen to the Iowa State coach in the post game interview. Pretty interesting.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I am NOT saying that NDSU was not better than those FBS teams as I know they were and so does everyone else. What I am saying and Cocky is as well as those other schools should not lose games to FCS schools due to their significant advantage in other areas.

I am glad NDSU is not FBS as we would have no chance to win a National Championship but be relegated to some crap bowl game.

Dewey


Sure. But not in all cases. Georgia Southern beat Florida.

Eastern Washington would have blown out Washington if they had a decent defense this year.....and Washington is a pretty decent FBS team this year.

My point is that FBS/FCS games are not ALL gimmies for the FBS teams when it comes to the elite FCS teams even with their advantages in $$.

[Sycamore62]

No FBS schedules any FCS team and thinks they will lose.

As as far as NDSU and any other successful FCS team moving up, one hit they would take would be the FBS transfers they get because they don't have to sit out. I'm not sure how many they have but I've seen good teams they wouldn't be as good without 1 person.

Just 1 example, if Joe Flacco had to sit out a year to go to Delaware, would he have transferred there. Would UD have been that good without him?

[clenz]

Because they were the better team on that day and on probably any other day also. Go listen to the Iowa State coach in the post game interview. Pretty interesting.
If you really belive that Iowa state is anything except a dog **** program, regardless of classification, and is actually better than Iowa... Well...

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[caribbeanhen]

No FBS schedules any FCS team and thinks they will lose.

As as far as NDSU and any other successful FCS team moving up, one hit they would take would be the FBS transfers they get because they don't have to sit out. I'm not sure how many they have but I've seen good teams they wouldn't be as good without 1 person.

Just 1 example, if Joe Flacco had to sit out a year to go to Delaware, would he have transferred there. Would UD have been that good without him?

No!

[kalm]

xlolxxlolx

I didn't know I was on drugs!

There are many very good football players out there and they can not all go to P5 schools. NDSU would do just fine with 22 more schollies. Would they be a NC contender? Probably not but who says they couldn't be. If the playoff field expanded to 8 or 16 teams, IMO they could sneak in every so often to compete for it. Now our stadium would probably be a liability in a FBS future but NDSU could compete with the "big boys".

At best you'd be Nevada or Toledo. More than likely you'd be Wyoming.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

If you really belive that Iowa state is anything except a dog **** program, regardless of classification, and is actually better than Iowa... Well...

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They are not "dog sh**" IMO. They are not an "elite" FBS program but they would beat all except 2 or 3 FCS teams this year.

- - - Updated - - -


At best you'd be Nevada or Toledo. More than likely you'd be Wyoming.


That is your guess. I think they would be a better program than those 3 examples. We all can have an opinion.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

No FBS schedules any FCS team and thinks they will lose.

As as far as NDSU and any other successful FCS team moving up, one hit they would take would be the FBS transfers they get because they don't have to sit out. I'm not sure how many they have but I've seen good teams they wouldn't be as good without 1 person.

Just 1 example, if Joe Flacco had to sit out a year to go to Delaware, would he have transferred there. Would UD have been that good without him?


NDSU is not an FBS transfer destination. Talk to SIU about that. NDSU builds it team with consistent recruiting classes and RS them.

[jmufan999]

By some measures, the Big South is #2 in the FCS. Granted, those were computers. Most BSo teams did pretty well OOC. Haven't we had half of our 6 teams ranked over the course of the year? The argument works when its about the MVFC beating each other up.

well then if you're the #2 conference, you won't have anything to worry about. you originally said "what else can CCU do?" if you win the #2 conference and are undefeated, there's a 0% chance you miss out on a top 2 seed. and if you're the #2 conference, you should be getting multiple playoff bids every year.

and i don't know about making arguments about teams being ranked "at some point in the year". i'm definitely not arguing that we beat a ranked (at the time) Albany team. that's one of those arguments you're better off just not making, because the logic is so flawed. we all know Albany is a mediocre CAA team, doesn't matter what they were then.


Response to your suggestions...

1. We are a powerhouse when it comes to athletics. Our soccer team was top 25 most of the year and is hosting a first round game this week. Baseball has been a little soft the last two years, but prior to that we were top 25 and hosted regionals and super regionals for 2 or 3 years running. Our basketball team isn't terrible, but does have a really, really ridiculously soft OOC home schedule this year. They had the 2nd longest winning streak in the country a few years ago and nearly cracked the top 25. We also went to the tourney last year, but lost a decent first round game. We also have a great track and field team that have won every conference championship the last couple of years. We invest significantly in facilities for all sports and have some of the absolute best venues. We have a brand new basketball/volleyball arena, a 10-year old 10,000 seat stadium, new soccer facilities, new hitting facilites, a very nice new baseball and softball complex, a new tennis complex going in, and teal colored field turf going in next year for football and our new women's lacrosse program. Hell, we even own our own golf course for our top 25 golf team. However, for all of the positive things we have going in athletics we just haven't been able to get any interest. The SoCon makes more since, but Furman, Citadel and Wofford don't really want to compete against us for recruits because lets face, the beach is always going to win. The CAA would be nice, but more of their schools have a long history, smaller enrollments, big endowments, high end academics and other than CofC and UNC-W have a pretty clear Northeastern focus. CCU, on the other hand, has only been independent for 21 years, 10,000 students and rapidly growing, has a small but growing endowment, has vastly improving yet still middle of the road academic quality and a Southern presence. We are also not in a reasonably sized metropolitan/media market in Myrtle Beach with many of our alumni scattered all over the eastern seaboard. At the end of the day we would love a better conference to give us a shot, but that's just not going to happen at this point.

sorry, man. i can't read all this. plus you're talking about CCU specifically, when i was talking about the Big South in general. again, we're talking conference strength, not CCU strength.

[Sycamore62]

They are not "dog sh**" IMO. They are not an "elite" FBS program but they would beat all except 2 or 3 FCS teams this year.

- - - Updated - -


That is your guess. I think they would be a better program than those 3 examples. We all can have an opinion.

Marshall, Some years?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Marshall, Some years?


Good example.

NDSU, if they went FBS, would never be a Florida State, Alabama or Texas but they could be a Marshall or a Boise State. Especially if the playoff format went to 16 teams. NDSU could slip in and make some noise.

Many NDSU fans want them to stay FCS and that is fine, I like them winning NC also but they could compete at the FBS level IMO. If the administration ever decided to move up, I would be there supporting it.xthumbsupx

[Bisonator]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4062/4633595222_30f90dc385.jpg

[jmrepak]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4062/4633595222_30f90dc385.jpg

Stealing this for a thread I have on Coastalfans right now...

[clenz]

They are not "dog sh**" IMO. They are not an "elite" FBS program but they would beat all except 2 or 3 FCS teams this year.
Iowa State is the epitome of dog ****

They have played football every year since 1892 and in that time they have (not including this season):
- a 508-613-46 record (45%)
- Conference titles (1911 and 1912...you did not read those years wrong. Over 100 years since their last conference title of any kind)
- Have been outscored by 1,550 points and been outscored every year except 6 since 1979. Only once have they outscored their opponents by more than 64 over the course of a season in that time - a 7-5 team in 2005 at 104 points.
- Scored more than 50 just 31 times (and only 5 since 1979)
- allowed 50 to be scored 42 times...30 of them coming since 1979
- 0 seasons of double digit wins
- just 41 winning seasons in 122 years of football. Only 8 in the modern era of football (1979) and only once more than 7 wins (3 6 win seasons, 4 7 win seasons, 1 9 win)
- In the modern era they've had a 500 or worse record in 79, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 87, 88, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 02, 03, 06, 07, 08, 10, 11, 12, 13, and now 14 (73 seasons of that in all)
- They are below 500 against the p5 - ACC (31%), Big 12 (36%), Big 10 (20%), CUSA (40%), PAC12 (27%) and SEC (33%)
- Their best (statistical) 5 year runs all happened in the 1920s and 1970s
Been in the final polls just one time in the modern era (2000 - finished 25th in the AP) and 3 times total)


So yes, Iowa State is a dog **** program. Do you really want to brag about them beating MAC/Sun Belt teams? They have an athletic budget of over 63 million dollars per year (top 50 in all of D1 athletics) and still receives state money to cover their expenses. The highest budget in the MAC? Miami (OH) at 25 million. Just some other fun numbers to look at when looking at how bad Iowa State really is: Boise State 43m, ECU 35M, James Madison 35m, WKU 27M, Marshall 27m, Toledo 23m, Hawaii (which pays for everyone to come to them...litterally pays people to come to them) 37m

I would hope a school with a 55k seat stadium and 62 million dollar athletic budget could beat MAC and FCS schools - but hell, ISU is something like 4 points away from being 1-4 against UNI in their last 5 games.


Iowa State is the perfect example of "FBS/P5 INO". They are nothing other than an average/middle of the pack CUSA/MAC program with b12 money.

[clenz]

After doing a good bit of research the best FCS comparison to Iowa State is actually Missouri State.


Would you call Missouri State a good program?

Does it make them a good program because they'd probably win 70% of the time against the Big South/MEAC/NEC/SWAC/etc.. (the MAC/Sun Belt/MWC/WAC style conferences of the FCS)?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

After doing a good bit of research the best FCS comparison to Iowa State is actually Missouri State.


Would you call Missouri State a good program?

Does it make them a good program because they'd probably win 70% of the time against the Big South/MEAC/NEC/SWAC/etc.. (the MAC/Sun Belt/MWC/WAC style conferences of the FCS)?



Bring in all your stats that you want, it is still only your opinion. They are still not a "dog ****" program like you proclaim. They would beat almost all FCS teams this year.

Crap FBS teams are ones like:

Memphis
UAB
L - Monroe
L - Lafayette
EMU
Idaho
Temple

Iowa State would beat them all.

[BisonFan02]

After doing a good bit of research the best FCS comparison to Iowa State is actually Missouri State.


Would you call Missouri State a good program?

Does it make them a good program because they'd probably win 70% of the time against the Big South/MEAC/NEC/SWAC/etc.. (the MAC/Sun Belt/MWC/WAC style conferences of the FCS)?

A prime target for the Sunbelt! :D

[clenz]

Bring in all your stats that you want, it is still only your opinion. They are still not a "dog ****" program like you proclaim. They would beat almost all FCS teams this year.

Crap FBS teams are ones like:

Memphis
UAB
L - Monroe
L - Lafayette
EMU
Idaho
Temple

Iowa State would beat them all.
USE FACTS ALL YOU WANT....YOUR FACTS ARE ONLY YOUR OPINION!

THE CLIMATE ISN'T CHANGING. I DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT SCIENCE SAYS - NOTHING IS CHANGING BE IT NATURALLY OR MAN MADE

[Bisonator]

After doing a good bit of research the best FCS comparison to Iowa State is actually Missouri State.


Would you call Missouri State a good program?

Does it make them a good program because they'd probably win 70% of the time against the Big South/MEAC/NEC/SWAC/etc.. (the MAC/Sun Belt/MWC/WAC style conferences of the FCS)?

So do you consider MSU a dog **** FCS program?

I think people are confusing the different levels within divisions and lumping teams in where they shouldn't. I'm by no means saying Iowa State isn't a terrible B12 football team because they are 99% of the time. Does that automatically mean they are at the bottom of FBS as a whole?

[thebootfitter]

USE FACTS ALL YOU WANT....YOUR FACTS ARE ONLY YOUR OPINION!

THE CLIMATE ISN'T CHANGING. I DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT SCIENCE SAYS - NOTHING IS CHANGING BE IT NATURALLY OR MAN MADE
Sheesh, clenz. No need to yell.

Yes, your facts are facts and can lead to conclusions. But I think the right conclusion is that they are a dog$h!t P5 program. If you compare them to all FBS teams, they are nowhere near the bottom of the barrel.

How many MAC teams have above a 0.500 record against P5 schools, for example?

[clenz]

So do you consider MSU a dog **** FCS program?

I think people are confusing the different levels within divisions and lumping teams in where they shouldn't. I'm by no means saying Iowa State isn't a terrible B12 football team because they are 99% of the time. Does that automatically mean they are at the bottom of FBS as a whole?
Yes, I've long been on record that msu is a dog **** fcs program

I didn't know people thought i didn't


Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[centennial]

Iowa state is a bad Big 12 team. Not a bad FBS team.

[No_Skill]

Living in this great state of Iowa and having seen both Iowa and Iowa State more than I care to Iowa State is not a better team than Iowa. They were better on the September Saturday they played, but they were not the better team. I don't think you can argue that some team is better just because they beat them. They were better on that day, but that doesn't mean they were actually the better overall team. I think the records of each team speak to that.

Like NDSU and UNI this year...

[RabidRabbit]

Sagarin's accounts for SOS, margin of victory about as well as any program. Iowa St. has the highest Sagarin rating - by a lot (30 + places) of any FCS>FBS wins. The two losses for UNI (Sagarin 58) were to two programs with Sagarin ratings that are better than the 25th placed FCS program (JMU -126th).

So all the dissing to Iowa St needs to be view like the Mo St and by extension, WIU ratings. These are good teams, but in great conferences. Measuring vs their respective conferences, they don't measure up well. Vs the breadth of D-I, these are good teams.

[No_Skill]

No FBS schedules any FCS team and thinks they will lose.

As as far as NDSU and any other successful FCS team moving up, one hit they would take would be the FBS transfers they get because they don't have to sit out. I'm not sure how many they have but I've seen good teams they wouldn't be as good without 1 person.

Just 1 example, if Joe Flacco had to sit out a year to go to Delaware, would he have transferred there. Would UD have been that good without him?

I think we have 1 fbs transfer on our team and that is pretty standard for us. That wouldn't hit us hard at all.

[Panther-State]

Iowa state is a bad Big 12 team. Not a bad FBS team.

I'm on board with this line of thought. Crappy B12 team, middle of the pack FBS team. There are some really weak FBS programs out there.

[jmufan999]

can we go back to talking about seeds instead of talking about Iowa State? this thread is starting to become unreadable.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

USE FACTS ALL YOU WANT....YOUR FACTS ARE ONLY YOUR OPINION!

THE CLIMATE ISN'T CHANGING. I DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT SCIENCE SAYS - NOTHING IS CHANGING BE IT NATURALLY OR MAN MADE


Dang right it is my opinion. Yes, they are a bad Big 12 team most years but they are not "dog ****" as a program.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

can we go back to talking about seeds instead of talking about Iowa State? this thread is starting to become unreadable.



Good idea!

If NDSU wins on Saturday, it will be interesting to see where they are placed.

[jmufan999]

Good idea!

If NDSU wins on Saturday, it will be interesting to see where they are placed.

i think NDSU will be #1, and i think that's the correct call.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Like NDSU and UNI this year...

And like NDSU and Kansas State last year. Maybe even NDSU and Iowa State this year.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

i think NDSU will be #1, and i think that's the correct call.


IMO, that is where they should be also but you never know about the committee and how they are thinking. Will some of them be sick of hearing about "NDSU" and penalize them for having this run?

Stack their resume up against the other #1 or #2 candidates: CC, UNH and Vill and they rise to the top.

We'll see on Sunday!

[robsnotes4u]

Sagarin's accounts for SOS, margin of victory about as well as any program. Iowa St. has the highest Sagarin rating - by a lot (30 + places) of any FCS>FBS wins. The two losses for UNI (Sagarin 58) were to two programs with Sagarin ratings that are better than the 25th placed FCS program (JMU -126th).

So all the dissing to Iowa St needs to be view like the Mo St and by extension, WIU ratings. These are good teams, but in great conferences. Measuring vs their respective conferences, they don't measure up well. Vs the breadth of D-I, these are good teams.

Can you please link to the actual formula, that shows the Sagarin SOS? Without the formula it is impossible for anyone to say that they do it as well as anyone. As far as I know Sagarin has never published it

[RabidRabbit]

Sagarin gets paid well for his calculation, (Thanks USA Today). Therefore I don't have it.

The key is that we know that the Selection Committee won't use carte blanche, as the MVFC would have multiple (3, maybe 4) of the 8 seeds, and some of the lower wins totals that will make the play-offs.

I'd be surprised if ANY 5-3 MVFC, 8-4 team, or better, gets left home. No other last at-large choices (NAU, SFA, Liberty, Bryant, Bucknell, Montana) will have a more than ONE top 15 win, except for MVFC teams.

There are up to 6 MVFC teams that fit that can fit that category. There can be as low as 3. (UNI, NDSU, ISU(R)).

Here's a link to Terry Vandrovec's (SDSU beat writer for Sioux Falls Argus-Leader) take for the Jackrabbits.

http://www.argusleader.com/story/terryvandrovec/2014/11/20/blog-fcs-playoff-picture/19308723/

[FordhamFan]

If Fordham wins tomorrow, they'll get the 8 seed. The more the week goes on the more confident I am that scenario is set in stone.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

EWU will be the #4 seed. Book it.

[Grizzlies82]

EWU will be the #4 seed. Book it.

If they play like they did tonight that #4 seed is as far as they go. Pick up the damn defense EWU.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

If they play like they did tonight that #4 seed is as far as they go. Pick up the damn defense EWU.

We're always flat after a bye. Definitely a concern, but we've been 1 or 2 plays away from the NC two years straight, even with a porous defense. McDonald and Wadood will be crucial in how far we go this year.

Conversely, pick up the damn offense, Griz. ;)

[Red & Black]

If they play like they did tonight that #4 seed is as far as they go. Pick up the damn defense EWU.

We always play like crap after a bye. It never fails.

Luckily we got it together in the 4th.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

We always play like crap after a bye. It never fails.

Luckily we got it together in the 4th.


Legit question for you Eagle fans.

EWU just gave up 522 yards of offense to PSU. Plus PSU committed 5 turnovers. We know EWU has a great offense but do you guys think they can make a NC run with that kind of porous defense?

If EWU gets a 4 or 5 seed they will likely come to Fargo for a semi-final game....if the Bison get the #1 seed.....or if the Bison are a #2 and EWU is a #3, can the EWU defense do enough to slow down good offensive teams?

I guess I should ask win a NC? EWU will more than likely win playoff game/games but do they have enough to overcome their mediocre defense and win a NC?

[Red & Black]

Legit question for you Eagle fans.

EWU just gave up 522 yards of offense to PSU. Plus PSU committed 5 turnovers. We know EWU has a great offense but do you guys think they can make a NC run with that kind of porous defense?

If EWU gets a 4 or 5 seed they will likely come to Fargo for a semi-final game....if the Bison get the #1 seed.....or if the Bison are a #2 and EWU is a #3, can the EWU defense do enough to slow down good offensive teams?

I guess I should ask win a NC? EWU will more than likely win playoff game/games but do they have enough to overcome their mediocre defense and win a NC?

We did give up a lot of yards last night, but it was just a screwy game where PSU had the ball a lot because of quick scores/special teams plays, or turnovers followed by the above.

I'm actually not concerned with total number of yards the D is giving up. You can't play up-tempo on offense all the time and then turn around and worry about how long the other team has the ball or how many yards they're getting. I think "situational defense" is more important than total yards given up...I.E. 3rd down conversion %, red zone scoring defense, turnover margin, and EWU's defense was pretty good in some of those areas going into this game. They did a great job of forcing turnovers last night with some really well placed hits on the ball/ball carrier.

Anyway, yes, I think the D is good enough to take us to a title game this year. You simply can't compare it with a team that plays ball control like NDSU. We're just not trying to do the same things on offense which has a big effect on defensive philosophy IMO.

The traditional strategy of leaning on EWU's defense all game is most likely what most teams will try to do to keep our offense off the field. That said, ball control teams that can't run the ball will have a hard time keeping up (see SDSU last year).

[tomq04]

3 turn overs > yards given up IMO and of course points at the end of the game is what matters most.

That being said, I was screaming at the tv when PSU had 2 perfect passes that the receivers missed that were definite TD's. You can't win playoff games giving up those plays!

[Milktruck74]

Its not "being punished" to not be seeded #1. no difference b/t 1 and 2....and if you are a 3/4 you don't get to host in the semis (boo-hoo). That's the beauty of the playoffs...take your seed, smile and keep winning! If you don't win the last one, you are in the same boat as everyone else (regardless of where you are seeded)!

[No_Skill]

Its not "being punished" to not be seeded #1. no difference b/t 1 and 2....and if you are a 3/4 you don't get to host in the semis (boo-hoo). That's the beauty of the playoffs...take your seed, smile and keep winning! If you don't win the last one, you are in the same boat as everyone else (regardless of where you are seeded)!

It depends how each side of the bracket is set up. Give me the side with fewer MVFC teams, and I'm happy.

[Milktruck74]

It depends how each side of the bracket is set up. Give me the side with fewer MVFC teams, and I'm happy.

There is truth here...but I don't think blaming the committee for your seed does much. If you don't like your teams seed, blame them for not winning enough during the season. The formula is pretty simple....... Tough Schedule + 0 loses = #1 seed

[No_Skill]

There is truth here...but I don't think blaming the committee for your seed does much. If you don't like your teams seed, blame them for not winning enough during the season. The formula is pretty simple....... Tough Schedule + 0 loses = #1 seed

In theory the #1 seed should have the easiest path. We'll see if that plays out.

...and it's not a really big deal either way. You still have to beat the teams in front of you.

[robsnotes4u]

In theory the #1 seed should have the easiest path. We'll see if that plays out.

...and it's not a really big deal either way. You still have to beat the teams in front of you.

That would be correct if the whole bracket was seeded. Not so much if you are a MVFC team do to regionalization.

[Grizzlies82]

In theory the #1 seed should have the easiest path. We'll see if that plays out.
...and it's not a really big deal either way. You still have to beat the teams in front of you.

Agree with your second statement but not so much the first. The playoff structure is so very subjective. How good is a New Hampshire, Villanova, Coastal Carolina, Eastern WA, ND State, or Jacksonville St (and others) ? Obviously each is a VERY good team, but who "deserves" to be #1 vs. #6? It is near impossible to say.

There is too little regular season competition between the various top teams. Missouri Valley fans may suspect Coastal Carolina wouldn't be undefeated if they had to play in the MVFC, yet we don't know that. What we do know is nobody has beaten CC all year. ND State is the reigning champion and have only lost once to a conference rival. That is a good ticket to a #1 seed, except they were beaten handily in that loss. So maybe they haven't demonstrated they "deserve" the top seed. Now plug in the next prospective team and I believe you see where this is going.

Whomever is selected as #1 certainly deserved a top seed. Though there is still little reason to believe that team deserved an easier path than whoever ends up as #2, #3, #4, or #5. Some years the top seeds are obvious, most years it is not as apparent. So it really wouldn't be any fairer even if the entire field were to be seeded. You'd simply run into more subjective decisions as to if the #11 team was really tougher than #16. The current selection process is not perfect but overall it is about as good as it can get. Which brings us back to your second statement... "You still have to beat the teams in front of you."