OOC Scheduling Woes

[bjtheflamesfan]

Since its a topic that seems to come up often, I thought I would open a discussin on the woes and travails that come with scheduling OOC games.

I know Liberty's issues have come up often because of frequent scheduling of D2s which drive down the SoS and overall schedule Q-score. I honestly wish I coud pinpoint one answer as to why so few of the "meter mover" schools appear on the home schedule for the Flames. We do get Montana next September, who will probably be a preseason top 15-20 team, and Richmond was a big draw because of the Rocco factor, but we really have not had a ton of teams that make people say, "oh boy I gotta plan to be there for that one!" I'd love to see teams like Villanova or Sam Houston or Southeastern Louisiana or Southern Illinois or even North Dakota State or Cal Poly or New Hampshire come to the mountain and really get a taste of what the experience is like at Williams Stadium these days.

Im sure to hear from Bison folks and the gang out west and (if they are still around) SWAC and MEAC posters about this

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There is no real criteria. If they "like you", OOC games versus West Chester and SFPA suddenly become the second coming of the Seven Blocks of Granite. If they don't, the excuses pour in ("they didn't play anybody - oh, yeah, App State, and beat them, but they're not good now, but wait, are they? - And oh yeah, Indiana State, a road game they should have won, and, oh yeah, Richmond at home, which they took to double-OT - but they should have won, losing just shows that Liberty sucks").

If they like you a win over App State takes on mythical proportions. If they don't they will take every opportunity to take underserved shots at the schedule that aren't true. Even D-II games have this double standard - Brevard is bad because they played Liberty, but CS-Pueblo, wow, they beat Sam Houston State, so they must be great!

[lionsrking2]

Since its a topic that seems to come up often, I thought I would open a discussin on the woes and travails that come with scheduling OOC games.

I know Liberty's issues have come up often because of frequent scheduling of D2s which drive down the SoS and overall schedule Q-score. I honestly wish I coud pinpoint one answer as to why so few of the "meter mover" schools appear on the home schedule for the Flames. We do get Montana next September, who will probably be a preseason top 15-20 team, and Richmond was a big draw because of the Rocco factor, but we really have not had a ton of teams that make people say, "oh boy I gotta plan to be there for that one!" I'd love to see teams like Villanova or Sam Houston or Southeastern Louisiana or Southern Illinois or even North Dakota State or Cal Poly or New Hampshire come to the mountain and really get a taste of what the experience is like at Williams Stadium these days.

Im sure to hear from Bison folks and the gang out west and (if they are still around) SWAC and MEAC posters about this

My understanding is we tried to schedule Liberty the last couple of years and couldn't get it to work. We ended up having to pay Jacksonville U for a one-n-done to avoid playing a D-2 this year. We also got lucky and got a last minute home-n-home with Southern Utah. Scheduling is a nightmare just about everywhere it seems.

[rokamortis]

I think for many schools they try to maximize home games. You may have to back off of that stance or try to schedule home and home.

So like one of the flame fan's answers earlier that JMU backed out and all they could find was a DII. The real answer is JMU backed out and you wanted to keep the home game so you scheduled a DII out of convenience.

[mainejeff]

The appetite to schedule FBS games also hurts the ability of teams to schedule OOC FCS games. Obviously the FBS teams are totally inflexible with scheduling so you have to play them when they have the opening. This creates a narrower availability of open dates for FCS teams to work with.

[WestCoastAggie]

i think the best AD's know how to negoigiate and have a balanced schedule that will set their teams up for a playoff run, if they win and maximize revenue for their team, athletic program and school.

[Thumper 76]

Since its a topic that seems to come up often, I thought I would open a discussin on the woes and travails that come with scheduling OOC games.

I know Liberty's issues have come up often because of frequent scheduling of D2s which drive down the SoS and overall schedule Q-score. I honestly wish I coud pinpoint one answer as to why so few of the "meter mover" schools appear on the home schedule for the Flames. We do get Montana next September, who will probably be a preseason top 15-20 team, and Richmond was a big draw because of the Rocco factor, but we really have not had a ton of teams that make people say, "oh boy I gotta plan to be there for that one!" I'd love to see teams like Villanova or Sam Houston or Southeastern Louisiana or Southern Illinois or even North Dakota State or Cal Poly or New Hampshire come to the mountain and really get a taste of what the experience is like at Williams Stadium these days.

Im sure to hear from Bison folks and the gang out west and (if they are still around) SWAC and MEAC posters about this

I know a lot of it is most "big name conference" schools mostly don't do a one and done away game, at least for SDSU. Ad it's hard to get a eastern or southern team to come up to SD, especially if it's going to end up later in the year. Add in the new stadium being built and we're going to maximize the amount of home games we get. Hard to get the big teams to travel with what they can draw for home games, getting themselves o sacrifice that is tough.

[PantherRob82]

I know we have a hard time finding people that are willing to come here for a buy game. Even if the money is right, they normally want a home and home instead.

I was very surprised when we got McNeese for a one off game. Curious what the details were.

[WileECoyote06]

bjtheflamesfan,

It would benefit NCCU as an FCS program to schedule teams from the CAA, Big South, OVC, and SoCon; but they aren't moving the needle in terms of attendance; and top of that many teams refuse to do home-and-home games with MEAC teams (shout out to Charlotte, Towson, Coastal, Chuck South, and Elon). Our AD is responsible for making money too, and we can get more fans in the stadium to see our old CIAA mates than for most of the teams in our geographic area.

Liberty has a great fan base either way and I really don't think you'd see a significant difference in attendance if you host UNH, Villanova, or anybody else outside of the region. FCS and DII football are primarily regional enterprises, and the people who think otherwise are probably the posters on this site or D2football.com. This isn't a consideration for schools with outstanding attendance, but for the rest of us. . .your AD should schedule with both the playoffs and your financial bottom line in mind with the latter being the primary influence. If your AD feels comfortable with paying a decent FCS program $125K+ to come to your stadium then so be it; but the same attendance can be achieved paying $25K to a D2 school. Also Liberty is in a unique situation only having five conference games. You all are always going to have problems with scheduling.

[Bisonator]

Several factors, everyone wants home games, most want an FBS game, getting dates to work out is a nightmare especially when some school pulls a douche move by buying out late.

I know in NDSU's case the OOC schedule preferred is an FBS, a top level FCS game and a lower level FCS game. Preferrably the FCS games would be at home for 6 home games every year. Obviously with a 12 game schedule there is much more opportunities but when there are only 11 games it gets much tougher. And with some of the FBS stance on scheduling FCS games I would assume we will probably be seeing more H/H's with top tier FCS programs.

I don't really understand why FCS conferences don't start OOC scheduling alliances. You'd think it would be a win/win for all schools in the grand scheme of things. I know most MVFC schools play BSC schools OOC which makes total sense for both sides. You would think with all the schools out east and down south they wouldn't have as many issues as the midwest and west.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Personally I would love to see Lehigh schedule one cool FCS matchup a year that is outside the comfort zone of Ivy/NEC and maybe even CAA. High on my list would be schools like Delaware State (easy drive) or Norfolk State (we share that funny 15 seed connection from the NCAA Tournament in hoops). I think it could be a great show, halftime bands, etc., that would be fun.

More good possibilities would be Furman, Wofford, but then those get to be pretty long trips for fans to get to. I like trips to UNI Dome, ThunderDome in Fargo, etc. in theory, but it becomes a harder deal to put together.

[PantherRob82]

Wile raises an interesting point. The average fan at most FCS schools doesn't care who comes to town. We would probably get similar crowds for Montana, Campbell, or Delaware.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Wile raises an interesting point. The average fan at most FCS schools doesn't care who comes to town. We would probably get similar crowds for Montana, Campbell, or Delaware.

It becomes about travel. At heart FCS games are mostly attended by locals within a car ride of the stadium (and, optionally, students). There are some hardcores that will attempt to make at least one big trip a year, and family/friends of players that go to as many as they can - at most schools. Montana, Liberty, NDSU are rare in that they have fan bases that travel well to opposing schools as well.

One interesting note, too: at Lehigh, the regular season seems to inevitably get dwarfed by the Lafayette game each year. Many out-of-market alumni will make one big trip for a home game - which one is that going to be, 9 times out of 10? Not against JMU or Villanova, even though those are still Big Games and all.

At UNI I'm guessing it's more ranking-driven. NDSU is No. 1 in the nation = big game. Maybe SIU because they seem to be competitive with you guys every year. But it varies. It's not one giant game dwarfing the others.

[OhioHen]

Wile raises an interesting point. The average fan at most FCS schools doesn't care who comes to town. We would probably get similar crowds for Montana, Campbell, or Delaware.

Montana likely higher because their fans travel. UD, not so much, outside of a "drive there on game day and home the same night" radius.

[bostonspider]

I look at Richmond's scheduling and it appears to be all about staying local. Games with other southern FCS schools in addition to an annual game with an ACC team. Next year UR plays VMI and @ Hampton, as well as @Maryland. In 2016, it is @UVA, and hosting Norfolk State, and in this case a different team, Colgate, which steps in for more local UNC-Charlotte, who did not want to travel to a FCS school. Future FBS opponents are BC, Pitt, UVA, VaTech...

[KPSUL]

Since its a topic that seems to come up often, I thought I would open a discussin on the woes and travails that come with scheduling OOC games.

I know Liberty's issues have come up often because of frequent scheduling of D2s which drive down the SoS and overall schedule Q-score. I honestly wish I coud pinpoint one answer as to why so few of the "meter mover" schools appear on the home schedule for the Flames. We do get Montana next September, who will probably be a preseason top 15-20 team, and Richmond was a big draw because of the Rocco factor, but we really have not had a ton of teams that make people say, "oh boy I gotta plan to be there for that one!" I'd love to see teams like Villanova or Sam Houston or Southeastern Louisiana or Southern Illinois or even North Dakota State or Cal Poly or New Hampshire come to the mountain and really get a taste of what the experience is like at Williams Stadium these days.

Im sure to hear from Bison folks and the gang out west and (if they are still around) SWAC and MEAC posters about this

I wonder if some of your scheduling woes comes from the fact that the rumor is that Liberty will jump at the first chance to move to any BCS conference? I have no idea how true that is, but it is the perception. Liberty has a great gameday environment and the members of the college community are gracious hosts. I attended the Monmouth - Liberty game this season and enjoyed being a Williams Stadium and seeing an excellent football game.

[PantherRob82]

It becomes about travel. At heart FCS games are mostly attended by locals within a car ride of the stadium (and, optionally, students). There are some hardcores that will attempt to make at least one big trip a year, and family/friends of players that go to as many as they can - at most schools. Montana, Liberty, NDSU are rare in that they have fan bases that travel well to opposing schools as well.

One interesting note, too: at Lehigh, the regular season seems to inevitably get dwarfed by the Lafayette game each year. Many out-of-market alumni will make one big trip for a home game - which one is that going to be, 9 times out of 10? Not against JMU or Villanova, even though those are still Big Games and all.

At UNI I'm guessing it's more ranking-driven. NDSU is No. 1 in the nation = big game. Maybe SIU because they seem to be competitive with you guys every year. But it varies. It's not one giant game dwarfing the others.

I think it's more dependent on our record and ranking than our opponents. Sure some locals may be more familiar with a few teams from rivalries or playoffs, but other thsn NDSU, no one in the MVFC or playoffs brings many fans to Cedar Falls.

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Montana likely higher because their fans travel. UD, not so much, outside of a "drive there on game day and home the same night" radius.

I don't think they would bring enough fans to make abig difference it attendance figures.

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I wonder if some of your scheduling woes comes from the fact that the rumor is that Liberty will jump at the first chance to move to any BCS conference? I have no idea how true that is, but it is the perception. Liberty has a great gameday environment and the members of the college community are gracious hosts. I attended the Monmouth - Liberty game this season and enjoyed being a Williams Stadium and seeing an excellent football game.

Do you mean FBS? Not sure Liberty gets a BCS invite. :)

[bonarae]

From an Ivy fan's POV:

With the watering down of most Ivy teams' OOC schedules, the fanbases are getting older and older with no sign of backing down. The younger Ivy alumni tend to cheer more for our basketball, soccer and other teams who do participate in the playoffs. The scheduling of unheard-of opponents is one reason why Ivy football is just merely a brand trying to isolate itself. xsmhx

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I have no connection to the AD, nor a particularly functional crystal ball, but Bucknell's scheduling has made a lot of sense in the context of a budget-conscious 27-sport varsity program and the ongoing development of a viable FCS scholarship program. The Bison have only gone beyond a 6-7 hour bus ride from Lewisburg, PA twice in the last 20 years plus-- St. Mary's, Bay-Area alumni outreach opportunities, in a H/H arrangement. The concentration of FCS programs in the Northeast--Ivy, NEC, CAA and regional MEAC schools-- make filling the five game OOC less daunting than others might face. The last d2 opponent was in 1995. Bucknell is considered 'way out west' by several schools. During the era of the Ivy/PL scheduling agreement Yale never traveled to Lewisburg.Princeton, Brown and Harvard each did once, in the 90's. The loss of that scheduling arrangement would seem to be no big deal in Lewisburg, unless of course all those recent trips to Cambridge came with a check. Cornell is the only regular recent Ivy visitor, and Pennsylvania has been in the past.

Since Bucknell alums and recruiting (PA, NJ) are concentrated in the Northeast, those games seem to make the most sense as the program builds in the scholarship era, maybe moving away from NEC games, toward CAA schools. Now that games will begin count for FBS foes, I would expect them to be scheduled, as the program needs the revenue. They also need to begin to cultivate a local fan base--scheduling the Fordham game on a Friday night was clearly a made-for-TV event. Anyone who knows central PA knows that high schools own Friday nights. The locals are the hard-core fan base that sells out Bucknell basketball, and they will be a big part of what brings bigger crowds back to Christy Mathewson.

I can imagine that Bucknell might take an extra FCS road game in the next few years without a H/H agreement-- home games are not yet that significant a revenue source, but probably would prefer a (bigger) FBS payday, like Army next year. I figure we will be looking at 5 home-game seasons for a while. Becoming more regularly competitive within the broader FCS may morph this basic point-of-view, but first it would be great to schedule more like Lehigh when we can- CAA schools, alongside the NEC teams we have recently played.

[McNeese75]

I know we have a hard time finding people that are willing to come here for a buy game. Even if the money is right, they normally want a home and home instead.

I was very surprised when we got McNeese for a one off game. Curious what the details were.

Details were we probably got our expenses covered and for sure our ass hammered. I would hope our AD (not sure which one scheduled that game) NEVER does that again. It was a fill in game to get a 12th game last year. This year we are only playing 11. McNeese has the same scheduling issues everyone else does. If two upper level FCS teams are going to play each other then it should be home and home. Unfortunately, money talks