UAB Could Drop Football

[superman7515]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/some-uab-boosters-say-trustees-are-exploring-idea-of-stopping-football-team-130303932.html


Are people affiliated with UAB looking at options for the UAB football team that include ending it in the near future? According to UAB boosters, they are.In a letter to the university's president, boosters, including Atlanta Falcons WR Roddy White (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7203/), a former UAB player, say that the Alabama system trustees are doing a study looking at the football program's viability.

From the letter, which was first published at Underdog Dynasty: (http://www.underdogdynasty.com/2014/11/5/7164495/uab-boosters-allege-trustees-could-end-football-program)


It is our understanding that you are awaiting the results of a "study" being conducted to determine whether to continue the UAB Football Program. We are also aware that a potential contract extension for Coach Clark as well as the scheduling out of conference games past 2016 has been placed on hold. In the B Club's opinion, delaying long overdue capital improvements and Coach Clark's contract extension would potentially jeopardize the future of our football program. As you are aware, to lose football is to lose conference affiliation and to lose conference affiliation means that basketball and the rest of our outstanding sports programs would be relegated to the lower echelons of the NCAA. These thoughts are unacceptable and we know your leadership will not allow such drastic and unbeneficial decisions to be made.



UAB's football team has undergone a turnaround in 2014 in coach Bill Clark's first season. The Blazers are 5-4 so far with three games remaining. UAB had five wins combined in 2012 and 2013. UAB is currently a member of Conference USA and plays at Legion Field in Birmingham.

Because of that improvement, the letter focuses on the positive aspects a football team can have on a college campus and the boosters would like the school to have an on-campus practice facility.

Justin Craft, who also signed the letter, told Al.com (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/11/former_uab_football_players_co.html#incart_river) that shutting down the team was a "strong thought" after meeting with UAB president Ray Watts on Friday. The study is being conducted by UAB administration and not UAB athletics.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

UAB needs to get independence from these people.

[Go Green]

As you are aware, to lose football is to lose conference affiliation and to lose conference affiliation means that basketball and the rest of our outstanding sports programs would be relegated to the lower echelons of the NCAA. These thoughts are unacceptable and we know your leadership will not allow such drastic and unbeneficial decisions to be made.


That's the short answer to any Columbia yahoo who thinks that Columbia should drop football.

No football, no Ivy League membership.

[bonarae]

Uh oh. The "studies" done by the admin are the ones that could really kill any athletic program in any school. (Just ask BU, UOP, Hofstra, Northeastern...)

Or maybe the other way around, only hurting the boosters' position to donate in the near future? (See Hawaii and SMU)

[superman7515]

Yeah, a little troubling that the school isn't the ones doing the study, it's the administration for the Alabama university system in Tuscaloosa that's doing it.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If they drop football where will their athletic program end up? They would be only non-football playing school in the CUSA. The Blazers usually have a pretty good hoops team so I can't see them jeopardizing that. Perhaps the MVC? They would be a good replacement for Creighton....

[Laker]

If they drop football where will their athletic program end up? They would be only non-football playing school in the CUSA.

I would wonder if the CUSA would keep them. Yes, they are usually pretty good in basketball but why have them stay?

[BigDGarciaFan]

is the Crimson Tide that is trying to cause UAB to shut down the program. thats what it is. the Tide is putting the trans on the fans in Birmingham, preventing them from rooting for the Blazers and giving the Blazers bad luck. i know Alabama used to play games at Legion on a occassional basis, but thats the past, Birmingham is now Blazer territory, the Tide cant just take over Birmingham again. the Tide cannot waltz into the city saying "forget the Blazers, all of Birmingham is suppose to worship the Tide again"

[clenz]

UAB basketball has been pretty bad the last 4 years.

If they can be what they were I'd welcome them in a second to the MVC.

[344Johnson]

is the Crimson Tide that is trying to cause UAB to shut down the program. thats what it is. the Tide is putting the trans on the fans in Birmingham, preventing them from rooting for the Blazers and giving the Blazers bad luck. i know Alabama used to play games at Legion on a occassional basis, but thats the past, Birmingham is now Blazer territory, the Tide cant just take over Birmingham again. the Tide cannot waltz into the city saying "forget the Blazers, all of Birmingham is suppose to worship the Tide again"

If UAB is gone...who are they going to cheer for? Roll Tide. ( i hate typing those words)

[dgtw]

While Alabama has not played home games in Birmingham in years, they are still the most popular team in the Birmingham metro area. Auburn is #2. UAB's fan base is very marginal. I live here and follow sports media and they get very little coverage or discussion on talk shows.

C-USA does not allow non-football members. So they'd have to find another league to put their Olympic sports in.

[BigDGarciaFan]

ok if UAB drops football. who will play at legion field? the stadium recently had pro football a decade ago in the form of WWE style football(XFL). the Stallions and the Barracudas were once the big league teams thats played at legion field. there was also WFL blazers and Vulcuns, and well as the minor league WLAF Fire. birmingham dont need a team from some too-bit minor league to play at legion. hey, maybe the Jaguars can play one regular season game at Legion every year.

[dgtw]

Alabama played about half their home games at Legion Field for many years, usually the bigger name opponents. By the 1990s, the surrounding neighborhood had deteriorated and the school put money into uprgrading Bryant-Denny Stadium and more games were moved to Tuscaloosa. Their last game there was in 2003. They had a couple others scheduled, but they bought them out.

The stadium itself has issues. The upper deck was taken down a few years ago when it was determined to be unsound. They have had various pro teams there over the years, but the last of those was the XFL in 2001.

The high school football championships used to be there, but moved to Tuscaloosa and Auburn in 2009.

The biggest client there is the Magic City Classic, an annual game between the states two main HBCUs.

At one time, the city was on the short list for NFL expansion, but that was years ago. The stadium and the neighborhood are dumps, the NFL would not approve any games played there.

[ccd494]

The Alabama system tried to do this to Alabama-Huntsville hockey, too:

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2011/12/as_uah_hockey_program_gets_new.html

The boosters and local community eventually stepped up to save the program.

[bonarae]

The city has joined the former players' cause.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11907841/atlanta-falcons-wr-roddy-white-lobbies-save-uab-blazers-football-program

[PaladinFan]

Furman just dropped UAB's futbol team last night in the NCAA tournament.

Wait. Different sport.

[hebmskebm]

Looks like the axe is about to fall. http://deadspin.com/report-uab-to-shut-down-its-football-program-1664885691

[clenz]

Hawaii and idaho not far behind

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[Catsfan90]

It was only a matter of time after all of the realignments, and the heavy gaps in FBS.

[bonarae]

It was only a matter of time after all of the realignments, and the heavy gaps in FBS.

Did we see that UAB would actually be the first FBS casualty in 20 years? In the FCS, we had two traditional Northeast programs shutter their football doors after their presidents decided that they had enough.

[superman7515]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11959176/uab-blazers-coach-bill-clark-fears-football-program-shut-down


UAB (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/5/uab-blazers) coach Bill Clark said Sunday he believes the school's football program is about to be shut down.

"I think it's going to happen," said Clark, who led UAB to a 6-6 record in his first season at the school. "Unless something changes before the weekend ends, I think it's over. I think the odds are very high it ends this week. To shut the doors? That's sad."
Clark has been in contact with school and Conference USA officials as recently as Sunday. UAB commissioned a university-wide strategic planning initiative to evaluate things like fiscal feasibility.
Discussions have also taken place between athletic director Brian Mackin and the school on a separation agreement, sources told ESPN...

[superman7515]

http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/11/30/alabama-birmingham-shuts-down-football-program-fires-athletic-director


Alabama-Birmingham is firing athletic director Brian Mackin and will announce later this week that it will be shutting down its football program, according to a source familiar with the matter.The announcement will likely be Thursday and is a move that boosters and former players had feared for the last month. UAB is undergoing a university-wide yearlong comprehensive strategic planning study that includes the evaluation of the financial viability of football.
Mackin has been UAB's athletic director since 2007 and did not return messages seeking comment.
The news comes on the heels of the Blazers beating Southern Mississippi 45-24 on Saturday night (http://www.si.com/game/1149931) to become bowl-eligible for the first time since 2004, the school’s lone bowl appearance.
It’s been a miraculous season for UAB (6-6) under first-year coach Bill Clark. He took over an underfunded program that hadn’t had a winning season in a decade and was so downtrodden that his predecessor, Garrick McGee, quit on his own accord after two seasons to become offensive coordinator at Louisville (http://www.si.com/college-football/team/louisville-cardinals).
There had been warning signs about the university's commitment to football. They included Clark's three-year contract not being extended, the contracts of his assistants expiring in January and the Blazers lacking any non-conference opponents scheduled beyond the 2016 season....

[Laker]

Arkansas State, GA State, James Madison, Liberty, LA-Lafayette, South Alabama, Texas State- interesting list of possible replacement in CUSA.

http://collegead.org/7-cusa-members/

[clenz]

Sounds as though UAB football has life...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/09/sports/ncaafootball/after-uab-football-programs-death-outcry-raises-the-possibility-of-a-quick-resurrection.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

[Laker]

Did CUSA discuss this situation at their January meetings? Is UAB going to stay in, or get kicked out and join another conference?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Did CUSA discuss this situation at their January meetings? Is UAB going to stay in, or get kicked out and join another conference?

CUSA punted for now until April. My guess/opinion is that they have feelers out for Sun Belt schools as we speak.

[clenz]

Did CUSA discuss this situation at their January meetings? Is UAB going to stay in, or get kicked out and join another conference?
As LFN said, I think CUSA took a "wait and see" approach to let it all play out as there was a lot more to figure out before this came up.

If this comes back as "drop" UAB is gone

[dgtw]

C-USA bylaws say member schools must sponsor football. A wavier was discussed at their meeting, but nothing was done. A study is being done to see if they are really going to have to drop football, women's bowling and rifle. Te consensus of opinions seems to be that if they are able to bring it back in 2016, they will let it slide for next season.

I don't know if them getting kicked out is automatic at the end of the school year or if someone in the league office has to hit the "delete" button to kick them out.

From reading the UAB board, the posters there seem to want the Atlantic 10 or the MVC if they do have to leave. I don't see either of those happening. I think the A-Sun is their likely destination.

[superman7515]

http://i.imgur.com/d6M3NJA.jpg

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/03/if_uab_is_forced_out_what_does.html


There are multiple possible outcomes and scenarios regarding C-USA's UAB decision. If the conference keeps the school through at least the 2015-16 season, as UAB hopes, it will likely continue to evaluate its best options and see what happens with the school's review of its decision to disband its football program. Realignment could still come with this outcome, but not in the short-term.

If UAB is forced to find a new home, realignment is happening. UAB will need to find a new home for its other teams as soon as possible. That could be in the Sun Belt, Atlantic Sun, Colonial Athletic Association or elsewhere. There's also the possibility UAB would have to play as an independent for a year as it seeks conference membership, which is the worst-case scenario.


Conference USA could stay pat for a year as it looks at options or it could immediately try to add a 14th football-playing member. Middle Tennessee State athletic director Chris Massaro mentioned Liberty and James Madison as two schools looking to move up to the FBS-level for football, and either could be an attractive option.

The conference has recently dipped into that well when it added Charlotte and Old Dominion before either had a fully-fledged FBS football program.
Or it could try to poach from other conferences like the Sun Belt as it has frequently done in recent years.

[clenz]

MVC is making some phone calls...


http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/03/jerod_haase_needs_to_know_what.html - Haase is the UAB basketball coach, for reference in the excerpts

Haase and company did a terrific job of not letting that big-picture uncertainty impede their day-by-day progress, but now that the season's done, the future has to be addressed. Haase has to know whether UAB will be allowed to stay in Conference USA or if the absence of football will force C-USA to kick the school to the curb.
And if that happens, what then? "It's paramount for us to solve what conference we're going to be in, not just next year but in future years as well," Haase said. "It's an absolute keystone to everything we're doing. "In my mind right now, it's the first and only question that's on my mind. We're going to work on player development. We're going to do all the things we need to do to build the program, but getting the conference affiliation worked out moving forward is the No. 1 thing on my mind."

There has been some interest in and from the Missouri Valley Conference, which would be a quality landing spot if UAB moves forward without football, but how long would any conference wait to adjust its roster for next season?

For Haase, there's the additional uncertainty of the ongoing search for a new athletics director at a time when he could emerge as a potential candidate for other jobs. The positive exposure the Blazers have earned the last two weeks no doubt has opened the eyes of ADs elsewhere who may be in the market for a new coach.
Haase may not be looking at other schools, but other schools may be looking at him. He's definitely looking at his strongest returning roster at UAB, a team that could be a favorite to win Conference USA - if it stays in Conference USA.

You think UAB supporters want to fire Watts now? Imagine their reaction if he allows Haase to get away. It would be an almost fatal body blow to UAB athletics as a whole if killing football ended up cutting out the promising heart of UAB basketball, too.




Given how the MVC usually works this is a HUGE surprise, but a very very very very very very welcome one. The support for UAB on the MVC sites is near 100% unanimous, including the most important section - Wichita State. WSU has long been talking about finding a new home - MWC or AAC. However, if the MVC is proactive on this (rather than the reactive they always have been) the MVC can set itself up for some real long term success.

There is a fracture starting to happen at a "fundamental level" with the MVC schools. It's going to seem like a small thing, but it's huge in the MVC. The "need" for a 10 team conference, and thus a true round robin, is starting to fracture. I think it started when Loyola was added and no other options were given a true look but really wanted in. Now, with the UAB possibility being floated out I think a small hairline fracture is turning into a larger crack.

If the MVC can get to 12 with UAB and either Murray State or Belmont (the two most wanted) - it would have unanimous support. A long shot, but if things play out Missouri State could end up in the Sun Belt and MVC takes all 3.

I would bet that UAB, Murray State, Belmont, New Mexico State and one other school...maybe Denver....maybe....all get calls.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The mess continues to deepen in regards to the story of UAB dropping football. Now it comes out that the school was fully ready to terminate the program in the middle of the season, and had drafted PR and talking points back in early September.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/03/uab_documents_detail_plans_to.html

That means, for months, Watts lied about the decision still being "in process". IMO he's in a heap o' trouble.

I just wish this cynical game that presidents play could have been exposed earlier when BU, Hofstra, Northeastern, and any number of FCS programs pulled the plug on their football teams. At least the reality of this one is now in the public so everyone can see.

For about a decade I've been calling out the lies of these football presidents when it comes to "expenses" and the shoddy justifications of killing a program based on costs, not taking into account revenues, and over-reliance on a consultant or a president's own uninformed decisions on the matter. It's good to see a real shot at justice here. Just too late for the Northeast Three.

[clenz]

At this point, isn't the idea of FB at UAB more or less ****ed?

How/who are they going to recruit to play there? The program will ALWAYS be 1/2" from being cut.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

At this point, isn't the idea of FB at UAB more or less ****ed?

How/who are they going to recruit to play there? The program will ALWAYS be 1/2" from being cut.

Depends. They may resurrect themselves as an FCS school, or the coaches could sell this as the "phoenix rising from the ashes" back into FBS football.

Much still depends on C-USA, whether they still want them, and how confident C-USA is that UAB could re-institute football. Or, alternatively, maybe they don't care and would let them not have FB.

[clenz]

If they are restarting FCS the MVC or SoCon is their best hope...and the MVC and MVFC would be a great fit...though football, even FCS football, might start to back WSU off

[BisonFan02]

If they are restarting FCS the MVC or SoCon is their best hope...and the MVC and MVFC would be a great fit...though football, even FCS football, might start to back WSU off

WTF does UAB bring to the MVFC other than bring the MVC a "basketball school"...**** them.

[clenz]

WTF does UAB bring to the MVFC other than bring the MVC a "basketball school"...**** them.
Someone is jealous...

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[BisonFan02]

Someone is jealous...

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Not in the slightest there clenzy....go find a post anywhere that I say NDSU is a fit for the MVC. I also thought the MVFC and the MVC are totally separate entities? Leaving the MVC aside...PLEASE sell me on how a ****ty defunct UAB football program is a fit for the MVFC.

[FargoBison]

What do they bring to the MVFC? Not much, obviously though I see their value to the MVC.

Perhaps if they hadn't destroyed their football program I might think differently. Honestly if the MVC added them, most of the schools in that conference would likely hope their football stays dead anyway. The MVC doesn't exactly embrace the sport of football.

[Twentysix]

:\ UAB is pretty far away and they don't offer anything for the MVFC. I don't see it happening. UAB to the MVC would be great though. Best of luck!

IMO a school like Minnesota-Duluth (or UNO restarting football or UND) has a better shot at the MVFC then UAB. (Minnesota-Duluth is not moving up, it was just an example)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let's not kid ourselves, UAB gives the MVC potentially the next Wichita St. with their hoops (at least that's how the thinking goes).

But I agree, UAB is quite far away from the rest of the MVC. I had heard the A-Sun or even the CAA as possibilities, but I wonder if they'll end up in the OVC, which IMO makes the most sense geographically and basketball-wise. The SoCon is also a possibility, but their hoops isn't as good as the OVC.

If they do end up getting evicted from C-USA and head to the MVC or OVC, you have to wonder if they might restart life as an FCS school. I said that at the very beginning, and it's very much still in play, especially after Watts' mishandling of this whole situation. There are some parallels here to ETSU.

[dgtw]

The OVC has 12 members, which includes two non-football and one Pioneer football team. I don't think they add that much as they'd be the southernmost member. As an OVC fan, we have enough people without football and wish those without it would leave.

What are MVC fans thoughts on Greg Marshall taking the Alabama job?


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[Lehigh Football Nation]

The OVC has 12 members, which includes two non-football and one Pioneer football team. I don't think they add that much as they'd be the southernmost member. As an OVC fan, we have enough people without football and wish those without it would leave.

What are MVC fans thoughts on Greg Marshall taking the Alabama job?


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If Jacksonville State heads to the Sun Belt, UAB with FCS football suddenly becomes a very attractive option to remain at 12 teams. And though it might be a bit unwieldy, Kennesaw State could also be offered an invite, making it a 14 team conference with even more football.

[clenz]

Let's not kid ourselves, UAB gives the MVC potentially the next Wichita St. with their hoops (at least that's how the thinking goes).

But I agree, UAB is quite far away from the rest of the MVC. I had heard the A-Sun or even the CAA as possibilities, but I wonder if they'll end up in the OVC, which IMO makes the most sense geographically and basketball-wise. The SoCon is also a possibility, but their hoops isn't as good as the OVC.

If they do end up getting evicted from C-USA and head to the MVC or OVC, you have to wonder if they might restart life as an FCS school. I said that at the very beginning, and it's very much still in play, especially after Watts' mishandling of this whole situation. There are some parallels here to ETSU.
If they want to keep Haase, who just resigned at over 600k, they won't even sniff the OVC invites.

It's all too coincidental that he MVC story gets leaked right as Haase says he needs to know he is going to be in a viable conference going forward for him to want to stick around. That means they are either staying CUSA or going MVC. The distance thing could easily be bridged in the MVC with the addition of a 12th school, which would need to happen anyway.

The Horizon is wanting to poach some OVC schools, according to an article I saw a day or two ago. What does the OVC have is the Horizon or MVC poach their only good program(s)?

The MVC name being leaked means something. The MVC name is never leaked as being proactive. It's a lot like UNI AD, Troy Dannen, talking. It doesn't happen much but when it does there's something to it. It might not happen but if CUSA no longer is an option for UAB I would bet the MVC is next.

[clenz]

The OVC has 12 members, which includes two non-football and one Pioneer football team. I don't think they add that much as they'd be the southernmost member. As an OVC fan, we have enough people without football and wish those without it would leave.

What are MVC fans thoughts on Greg Marshall taking the Alabama job?


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There are a small handful of jobs that worry MVC...Bama isn't one of them

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If they want to keep Haase, who just resigned at over 600k, they won't even sniff the OVC invites.

It's all too coincidental that he MVC story gets leaked right as Haase says he needs to know he is going to be in a viable conference going forward for him to want to stick around. That means they are either staying CUSA or going MVC. The distance thing could easily be bridged in the MVC with the addition of a 12th school, which would need to happen anyway.

The Horizon is wanting to poach some OVC schools, according to an article I saw a day or two ago. What does the OVC have is the Horizon or MVC poach their only good program(s)?

The MVC name being leaked means something. The MVC name is never leaked as being proactive. It's a lot like UNI AD, Troy Dannen, talking. It doesn't happen much but when it does there's something to it. It might not happen but if CUSA no longer is an option for UAB I would bet the MVC is next.

EIU would seem like a natural school to poach for the MVC, with good football and decent hoops, not to mention a rivalry with SIU and Illinois State. However, it wouldn't do anything to bridge the way to UAB. Jacksonville State ain't moving to the MVC. The only one that offers a tiny bridge to UAB is Murray State, but even that is very far away. Racers hoops, though, would be a major coup for the MVC.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In fact, I think it's more likely that the MVC poaches from the OVC and then the OVC responds by grabbing UAB to stay at 12 teams.

[clenz]

In fact, I think it's more likely that the MVC poaches from the OVC and then the OVC responds by grabbing UAB to stay at 12 teams.
Nope...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Nope...

I've got to believe Murray State is dying to get into the MVC after their snub. Had they been a member of the MVC they'd have had a fighting chance to make the tourney.

Unless the presence of their football team causes a problem for the MVC.

Ironically, maybe the MVC is only a viable option if UAB pinkie-swears that they never, ever restart football.

I think the UAB folks probably leaked the news about the MVC simply to say "see, we have contingency plans in place in case C-USA boots us out".

[clenz]

I've got to believe Murray State is dying to get into the MVC after their snub. Had they been a member of the MVC they'd have had a fighting chance to make the tourney.

Unless the presence of their football team causes a problem for the MVC.

Ironically, maybe the MVC is only a viable option if UAB pinkie-swears that they never, ever restart football.

I think the UAB folks probably leaked the news about the MVC simply to say "see, we have contingency plans in place in case C-USA boots us out".
The fact the MVC even put calls out leads me to believe it's either MVC or CUSA...

[FargoBison]

There are a small handful of jobs that worry MVC...Bama isn't one of them

Texas is the one I would worry about. They have the resources to put a crazy offer on the table.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

EIU would seem like a natural school to poach for the MVC, with good football and decent hoops, not to mention a rivalry with SIU and Illinois State. However, it wouldn't do anything to bridge the way to UAB. Jacksonville State ain't moving to the MVC. The only one that offers a tiny bridge to UAB is Murray State, but even that is very far away. Racers hoops, though, would be a major coup for the MVC.

There are at least two things wrong with this, one that hasn't been brought up enough over the last few pages. The MVC and MVFC are two completely separate entities with completely separate goals.

Second, no way EIU would leave the squishy OVC to go back to the tougher MVFC.

[clenz]

Texas is the one I would worry about. They have the resources to put a crazy offer on the table.
Texas is down the list...

You'll think this isn't a serious list, but it is truly the list that WSU/MVC fans realize Marshall would take a serious look at

UNC
Syracuse (Jim B is gone in 3 years)
Duke
Indiana (this is the potentially scary one)
UCLA (already burned their bridge though)
UCONN
Kansas (though I really doubt it for obvious reasons)





Alabama
Texas













The rest





You have to remember the kind of money WSU is capable of throwing at someone.

[FargoBison]

Texas is down the list...
You have to remember the kind of money WSU is capable of throwing at someone.

Clenz, WSU could put their best offer out and Texas could double it without breaking a sweat. If they wanted Marshall there would be nothing WSU could do stop it.

Marshall could win a national title or two at Texas. Great college, great city, unlimited budget and great facilities. It is a coaches dream job.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"Greg Marshall, next head coach of the Memphis Grizzlies" has a nice ring to it

[clenz]

Clenz, WSU could put their best offer out and Texas could double it without breaking a sweat. If they wanted Marshall there would be nothing WSU could do stop it.

Marshall could win a national title or two at Texas. Great college, great city, unlimited budget and great facilities. It is a coaches dream job.
If they could double WSU's top salary they will be pushing 10+ million a season...for a basketball coach....

[FargoBison]

If they could double WSU's top salary they will be pushing 10+ million a season...for a basketball coach....

I doubt WSU could pay him $5 million a year. That would be more than KU pays Self, probably more than what 4 or 5 coaches in the country makes.

That said with athletic department revenues of $165 million, Texas can do whatever they want.

[FargoBison]

"Greg Marshall, next head coach of the Memphis Grizzlies" has a nice ring to it

He makes more at Wichita then what Memphis pays their current coach.

[clenz]

I doubt WSU could pay him $5 million a year. That would be more than KU pays Self, probably more than what 4 or 5 coaches in the country makes.

That said with athletic department revenues of $165 million, Texas can do whatever they want.
You don't know much about WSU donors.



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[FargoBison]

You don't know much about WSU donors.



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I am fully aware of the Koch money.

But one school has a ton of money, the other needs to ask for it. Huge difference.

[clenz]

I am fully aware of the Koch money.

But one school has a ton of money, the other needs to ask for it. Huge difference.
WSU doesn't need to ask

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[BisonFan02]

WSU doesn't need to ask

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Hey now...back on topic. I want someone to sell me UAB to the MVFC! xlolx

[clenz]

Hey now...back on topic. I want someone to sell me UAB to the MVFC! xlolx
Do I really need to type the same extremely long post, yet again, as to why expanding the MVFC to 12 or 14 by adding middle to lower half teams is a good thing all over again?

If I do let me know. I'm home after testing positive for influenza, asking with my pregnant wife, mother in law and almost 2 year old. I have time...

This time I'll add why adding a strong MVC/MVFC cross membership is also good... Even with the two being separate entities.... Same reason I'm all for Drake


I really should just save it in my Google drive at this point.



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[FargoBison]

So add UAB and Drake.

West
NDSU-SDSU
Drake-USD
UNI-WIU

East
UAB-ISUB
MSU-SIU
ISUR-YSU

Is that what you want Clenz? I guess it would produce an extra MVFC playoff team. I agree that finding a 12th school does make the UAB thing more palatable.

[BisonFan02]

Do I really need to type the same extremely long post, yet again, as to why expanding the MVFC to 12 or 14 by adding middle to lower half teams is a good thing all over again?

If I do let me know. I'm home after testing positive for influenza, asking with my pregnant wife, mother in law and almost 2 year old. I have time...

This time I'll add why adding a strong MVC/MVFC cross membership is also good... Even with the two being separate entities.... Same reason I'm all for Drake


I really should just save it in my Google drive at this point.



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I would add that a Summit/MVFC cross relationship is probably more important......at least in the short term.

EDIT: To add to my point....again, I don't disagree with you about going from 12-14 teams, but WTF does that have to do with UAB directly? I can think of a pile of teams I would add before them....even lil ol Drake :D Besides, does UAB re-adding football make them less attractive to the MVC? xlolx

(also, get better clenzy...sucks about the illness)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think adding this guy is good for anybody.

http://1vze7o2h8a2b2tyahl3i0t68.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Drake-Leads-Much-Music-Awards-With-Six-Nominations.jpg

[tribe_pride]

I am confused about the UAB to FCS football discussion. In reality, doesn't it seem to make sense that the only way that UAB is coming back with football is if they stay in the C-USA or have I not heard something?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I would add that a Summit/MVFC cross relationship is probably more important......at least in the short term.

EDIT: To add to my point....again, I don't disagree with you about going from 12-14 teams, but WTF does that have to do with UAB directly? I can think of a pile of teams I would add before them....even lil ol Drake :D Besides, does UAB re-adding football make them less attractive to the MVC? xlolx

(also, get better clenzy...sucks about the illness)

This. Summit/MVFC have the same goals. The MVC is only concerned with chasing markets, public/private balance, and rpi.

You can't make the MVC such an exclusive club and then insist the MVFC help you get members.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I am confused about the UAB to FCS football discussion. In reality, doesn't it seem to make sense that the only way that UAB is coming back with football is if they stay in the C-USA or have I not heard something?

The decision about football is intimately related to their conference status.

Currently, UAB has no football and C-USA is their conference. C-USA can either: kick them out because they don't sponsor football (currently it's a rule), or they can amend the rule to keep UAB around. They could amend the rule so that they can be in the conference without football, or allow them to sponsor FCS football outside the conference.

If they kick them out, then they will join another conference and be subject to their rules, with no restrictions on stopping or restarting football. If they join the MVC, they could *at that time* choose to restart football *if they choose* at the FCS level. But that's not something in active discussion because they are still in C-USA.

The possibility also exists that they could stay in C-USA without FBS football or without any football, which would require an amendment of their rules.

A third possibility is that C-USA keeps them around with the pinkie-swear promise that they restart their FBS program.

But the key here is that Ray Watts is president, and UAB is still a member of C-USA. No moves will be made before C-USA makes clear what they're going to do.

All of these possibilities probably wouldn't be seriously considered if Ray Watts was still in command of the university and this story. But it's becoming more clear that he's not. He's almost certainly going to be sued for lying to the public about UAB's football future and he may not survive another BOT election, never mind the cocked-up job he managing of the whole discontinuation of UAB football in general. A new president could do a whole number of things, including re-instate FBS football there, but that's not known until a new president is elected.

[tribe_pride]

So this is just a big "what if" game then kind of like the "Newest Conference Rumor" thread on the JMU message board. Got it.

Not sure why and I have no good reason to support this except for the fact that no school I think has ever dropped down from FBS to FCS, but I'd think the only way football will return to UAB is if they are going to go back to FBS. I know these are weird circumstances so anything could happen but those are my thoughts.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So this is just a big "what if" game then kind of like the "Newest Conference Rumor" thread on the JMU message board. Got it.

Not sure why and I have no good reason to support this except for the fact that no school I think has ever dropped down from FBS to FCS, but I'd think the only way football will return to UAB is if they are going to go back to FBS. I know these are weird circumstances so anything could happen but those are my thoughts.

Anything regarding conference realignment by its nature will be speculative.

What we know is: UAB is in danger of getting punted from C-USA (because they are in violation of their bylaws), President Ray Watts is in trouble (because he lied to the community, and the firestorm over discontinuing UAB football has not abated), and that the MVC has been linked to UAB in the contingency plan that UAB is booted out of their conference (leaked out by a press report that clenz linked to earlier).

We also know that the groundswell for UAB football has not abated. I don't think there's any argument that the UAB community would prefer to have football, which is borne out by the persistent anger and the continuing trickle of stories about things like the possibility of UAB re continuing football. At what level, FCS or FBS, is not specified.

If they are booted from C-USA but still wanted to sponsor FBS football they would have two options: field an independent FBS team in a hope to be picked up by an FBS conference eventually, or join a conference later that has FBS football already. Either path leads to the same end result: joining the Sun Belt, MAC or AAC.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

WSU doesn't need to ask

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Looks like your theory is going to be tested now that Texas needs a coach.

[clenz]

Looks like your theory is going to be tested now that Texas needs a coach.

I can tell you it won't be a money issue with WSU not coming through.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I can tell you it won't be a money issue with WSU not coming through.

A lot of things to think about there. Wichita is kind of a ****hole to live in. I know what the wife said about California but a dollar goes just as far in Austin as it does Wichita. The Big 12 is also a way superior conference top to bottom than the MVC, it's a step up that dollars might not be able to fill. The 5th place team in the Big 12 got an at large berth into the tournament.

What would more money to the WSU job mean for the rest of the MVC? Is it just a given that the coach will make the most by 3 or 4 times? What if Marshall takes the Texas job and WSU throws 1 or 2 million at Ben Jacobson?

Gosh, that would be hard to pass up

[clenz]

Jake turned down 2 from TAMU a available couple years ago.

Jake likely won't retire a Panther but there are only 2 jobs that actually worry UNI fans right now - Wisconsin and Minnesota.

Jake is wired different than most coaches. He wants to retire by 55-60. He enjoys life outside of coaching far too much to take a job that would him enjoy life less. He loves Cedar Falls, and the Cedar Valley absolutely adores Jake worth a teenage girl like crush. Jake has said many times he waves to be comfortable and stable, UNI offers that to him.

Marshall is a completely different breed of person. Completely insecure about everything and had to throw hours successes/contracts/money/etc... out all of the time. Complete smug egomaniac.

The more I think about it the more I see him taking the Texas job. Not because WSU doesn't have the money, but because bragging about 7 million is more fun than 4. He doesn't the money but it's a bragging thing to him.

Texas would be a great job for him. Fits the attitude of that fan base perfectly. He already recruits Texas and Oklahoma very well. Ron Baker graduates in May and can go with him a couple recruits would go with him.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Was there any record of him actually being offered and turning it down? I mean, he actually interviewed for it.

[clenz]

Was there any record of him actually being offered and turning it down? I mean, he actually interviewed for it.
The Jacobson's play things very tight lipped but from things Jake, and his father, have said on record it's pretty easy to see he turned them down...in Fargo.

He went up there to discuss the offer with his family and met with TAMU that night. TAMU left Fargo without a coach and on the ride back to Texas they called Kennedy and offered him.

Jake thought about taking it, but after talking with his parents he remembered the difference between a 10 year 500k contract (at that time) in Cedar Falls and a 4 year 2 mil in College Station wasn't worth the difference in money when it came to which place offered his family the best chance at being happy and stable.

Jake spends most of his free time in the summer up in northern Minnesota fishing with his kids and parents. He's one of those rate coaches from the upper Midwest that has actually kept his upper Midwest mentality about life

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Forget Wisconsin, Bo Ryan has a job for life up there and I don't see him in the pros. Minnesota is a revolving door of coaches and could be a target.

[superman7515]

http://www.espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/12748159/uab-blazers-dropped-financial-reasons-made-money-study-finds


A study released Thursday (http://a.espncdn.com/pdf/2015/0423/UABAthleticsFinancialAnalysis_r.pdf) by an independent economic analysis firm challenges the claim by University of Alabama-Birmingham officials that the football program had to be dropped for financial reasons, asserting that, in fact, the sport makes money for the university -- and that surpluses would grow in the coming years.

The report comes in response to the move by the Conference USA school to shutter the sport on the grounds that it could no longer afford to financially support football, especially with schools moving to cover the full cost of attendance with athletic scholarships. UAB also eliminated rifle and bowling.

"We find that the three sports in question did not cost the university anywhere near the $3.75 million indicated on UAB's accounting statements," wrote Dan Rascher and Andy Schwarz, partners of Bay Area firm OSKR. "Instead, after making the sort of adjustments suggested by the economics literature, we conclude that the three sports were effectively break-even to slightly positive. Football and bowling showed a modest positive return for 2013-14, the last year for which complete data was available. Rifle showed a deficit, but the three-sport balance was positive to the tune of $75,000."

Rascher and Schwarz were consultants for the plaintiffs in the Ed O'Bannon v. NCAA trial, which produced a favorable ruling (http://www.espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11328442/judge-rules-ncaa-ed-obannon-antitrust-case) for college athletes and opened the door for schools to offer cost-of-attendance scholarships. On the stand, Rascher had challenged the accounting methods used by the NCAA to assert that most athletic departments in major conferences lose money. He and Schwarz used the same alternative methods of analysis to conclude that UAB is overstating expenses and understating revenues.

They wrote that athletic scholarships cost UAB far less than their listed prices, as any tuition number assigned to that scholarship is not a hard cost to the university. Additionally, they argue that financial benefits of being a member of Conference USA are "far superior" to any alternate affiliation because of media revenues that -- while not at the level of the larger conferences -- are valuable and will continue to grow with the College Football Playoff driving even more money into college sports...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I read a decent hunk of their macro analysis. Some of the stuff ends up in the right place, but their analysis reads a lot more like a theoretical policy paper than an objective analysis of UAB. Saying that a college education is a fixed cost to the university is one thing; trying to call that AD chargeback in regards to tuition as "profit", however, is another.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not looking good for UAB staying in C-USA without football.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/25167509


Conference USA has communicated to UAB that the league won't amend its bylaws to keep the Blazers without football, according to sources familiar with the discussions.

UAB dropped football in December and has a study from a consultant expected to be released by May 15 on whether the school made the right decision in cutting the sport. Conference USA's executive committee meets in June and will formally vote on UAB's future. But there is not interest from two-thirds of C-USA's presidents to change the league's bylaws requiring football as a condition of membership.


Assuming UAB doesn't reinstate football for 2016, the school will most likely be a C-USA member for one more academic year in 2015-16, given the short timeframe for the Blazers to find a new home. C-USA is reluctant to kick out UAB and leave its sports without playing schedules.


UAB would not receive a full revenue share next year in C-USA if it stays. UAB is expected to receive about $2.2 to $2.4 million this fiscal year from C-USA. The College Football Playoff is expected to be worth about $800,000 for UAB. C-USA's postseason football revenue increased by about 500 percent this year due to the CFP compared to past revenue from the Bowl Championship Series.

This, IMO, puts UAB on the clock for some sort of solution. That solution might involve restarting FBS football to stay in CUSA, keeping football dropped and joining the MVC/OVC/ASun, or reinstating football at the FCS level and perhaps joining the MVC/OVC/Big South.

[Laker]

There may be hope yet:

​http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/12845360/supporters-pledge-6m-reinstate-uab-football

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Four days away from another report:

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/05/new_uab_ad_mark_ingram_prepari.html


If UAB is forced to leave CUSA, Ingram is prepared to leverage his connections he has in college athletics to find a good new home. The Missouri Valley Conference is one possible landing spot for the school if forced to leave, according to multiple sources. The Sun Belt, Atlantic 10 and Atlantic Sun are other conferences that have been mentioned in the past.

"It's about using those relationships to your advantage," Ingram said. "Trying to promote all the great assets that Birmingham and UAB have at their disposal, and providing that information to other conferences and saying, 'This is what we bring to the table if you would be interested in us.'


"There will be an extensive process related to multiple conferences and trying to see where we best align in our academic mission and academic landscape we provide here at UAB."

[blackbeard]

Will UAB reinstate football: http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/05/decision_on_whether_to_bring_b.html#incart_related _stories

Or not: http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/05/ominous_signs_concerning_uabs.html#incart_river

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Not FCS beard...doubt it ever will be but if it is someday then we'll handle it in the FCS board at that time.

[blackbeard]

Better yet merge it into the other thread, didn't see it and assumed it was many pages old

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Better yet merge it into the other thread, didn't see it and assumed it was many pages old

done.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My reading of all this is UAB will either:

1) reinstate FBS football and remain in C-USA, or
2) drop FBS football and join another conference that doesn't sponsor FBS football, of which the MVC appears to be the frontrunner based on media reports

If they drop FBS football and join the MVC they could consider sponsoring FCS football, but they'd only really do that after they leave C-USA in an official capacity.

[clenz]

According to a UAB poster on the MVC site it's down to two conferences if UAB doesn't get football back and UAB has made inquiries as to the entry fee for both leagues

MVC:
$350,000-$400,000 and equipment upgrades necessary for quality campus telecasts.


Sun Belt:
$2,000,000 - equipment can stay as is

Consensus seems to be pushing AGAINST the the Sun Belt pretty hard. Sounds like it's either CUSA and football or MVC for UAB.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Easy to see why. MVC basketball is WAY better than Sun Belt football.

[clenz]

Easy to see why. MVC basketball is WAY better than Sun Belt football.
Not Sun Belt football...Sun Belt non-football member


Reading the UAB boards is interesting. The program was cut on a shady premise, no doubt about it. However, the stadium is not in good shape and WAY too large for their attendence (which is god awful...around 10K for a 72k seat stadium). The team is typically god awful. There was no money going into the sport from donors, alumns, etc... everyone was happy with the status quo because it meant "they had football" and it wasn't affecting if they had to donate.

Now the premise is "If you show us the money that you really want to keep the program then we will". That seems to piss people off

Now they have somewhere between 13-15 million dollars for the next five years pledged to keep the program (the number to hit is something like 24-27 million over the next 5 years). Now their fans/supporters have thread after thread telling the people that cut the program to "suck it" and how wrong they were to do so. If those people would have ponied up the money and shown up to the ****ing games from the start they wouldn't be in this damn situation, would they?

This is the exact same thing that happened at UNI with baseball about 5 years ago when the program was cut. They were at/near the bottom of the conference most years. Were, by far, the northern most school. Had to fight with Iowa/Iowa State (had baseball at that point too) for the few D1 players in the state of Iowa. Spend 70% of the year racking up travel expenses because we couldn't play in Iowa until May. Shared a stadium with a independent league team (college players during the summer) but the team had to do all their own ground work and stadium up keep as part of the sharing agreement, and it's a ****ty stadium to begin with that was 20-25 minutes from campus and they averages less than 40 people per game for attendance...in a good year. They were told "If you raise X amount of dollars we'll keep the program". That got everyone all kinds of fired up...lawyers got involved, non-profits, etc... it got ugly. Long story short there was this "LOOK AT ALL THE MONEY WE RAISED YOU CAN'T CUT US NOW" scream. They raised enough to fund the program for about a year and a half and were told it wasn't good enough...and it really wasn't...and the program was axed.


I realize football and baseball are different but it's playing out exactly the same way.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not looking great for reinstatement.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/05/strong_indications_uab_will_no.html (http://t.co/TujLxXdm3M)


State Rep. Jack Williams told AL.com Thursday morning he's received "strong indications" that UAB President Ray Watts has decided not to reinstate the school's football program and plans to announce that news Friday night.

[clenz]

Not looking great for reinstatement.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/05/strong_indications_uab_will_no.html (http://t.co/TujLxXdm3M)
Reading the CSBB (or whatever the board is) had me almost believe it would be.

Man, that board has to have imploded since that article was written.

I almost wonder if I actually want them in the MVC now. There's almost no way that their alumni base/fans recover/support for 5-10 years.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The dip****tedness of Watts, not thinking that C-USA would boot them from the conference, not taking any of these many, many, MANY lifelines that he is being given, cannot be overstated. Hell, even the C-USA commissioner has gone public with trying to work something out with them reinstating.

It will probably take a decade to heal, at least. And God Forbid if their hoops program suffers... if it slides and stops making the NCAA tournament, they are mega-screwed.

[clenz]

The dip****tedness of Watts, not thinking that C-USA would boot them from the conference, not taking any of these many, many, MANY lifelines that he is being given, cannot be overstated. Hell, even the C-USA commissioner has gone public with trying to work something out with them reinstating.

It will probably take a decade to heal, at least. And God Forbid if their hoops program suffers... if it slides and stops making the NCAA tournament, they are mega-screwed.
What's interesting, and pointed out on one of the UAB boards is this:

By killing the program, no matter what donations come in, he is turning down over 20 million dollars in donations voluntarily. That takes some blind stupidity and dip****edness of a special kind.

The fact is, UAB would be welcome in the MVC but they probably are the fourth best team in the conference next season...if that. WSU is going to be loaded again, UNI returns quite a bid (though won't be top 10 again), Illinois State has the talent to be a top 25 program, and Evansville has the peices to be top 50 if their coach doesn't **** it up (like normal). They'll be battling with Loyola for 5th probably.

As you said, imagine what happens if the basketball program doesn't see immediate success in it's new league with a larger travel area and no natural rivals

[blackbeard]

Hidden Agenda regarding killing UAB Football:
http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/05/uab_football_first_step_in_hid.html

Alabama High Schools Letter Supporting Return of UAB Football:
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/05/state_high_school_coaches_urge.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

At 10:20 am on Dec. 1, 2014, I received a message about what was really going on at UAB. It said, in part:"The hidden agenda is to focus UAB as medical school only, UAH as math and science only ... (board of trustees) presidents have pushed this agenda ... Deep pockets of trustees allow them to buy whatever they want."

Who was the author of this message? No less than a former member of the University of Alabama System Board of Trustees responding to my queries concerning Ray Watts and the imminent termination of football (and bowling, and rifle, as it turned out) at UAB. This source is the ultimate insider, who refuses to go public out of deep fear of retaliation.


From that moment forward, I knew that the battle for football at UAB was about much more than athletics. It is a last stand by Birmingham against those on the UA board who wish to crush autonomous public higher education in the Magic City.

It is an opinion piece, but it's pretty astounding. Especially revealing is what it says about the Alabama flagship.


Instead of research, the big bucks have been poured into metastatic growth for growth's sake, centered on extracurriculars, not academics. To try to cover the ensuing debt, UA has gone after out-of-state tuition payers with such vigor that the Capstone's dearth of Alabamians has become national news. But without steadily increasing out-of-state tuition revenues, the debt will be unsustainable—the Moody's reports on recent bond issues for UA imply as much.

How bad is the situation? A respected academic colleague at another flagship university with inside knowledge of the situation in Tuscaloosa gave me his assessment: "...a very unsustainable model... they are driving 100 mph toward a brick wall."

[blackbeard]

Its decision day. University President seems to have recommended reinstatement but said it required approval of the Board of Trustees. Assume he will use the argument that the first study was flawed and he should not have relied on it. So the blood will clearly be on the hands of the BoT if football doesn't return. Lots of politics being played out. Look for a major push for the state legislature to get involved in the BoT and possibly restructuring the entire UA System if they do not reinstate football.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/06/live_updates_decision_day_for.html#incart_std

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I wouldn't trust Watts with $5. I think there is a very high probability that UAB will keep football dropped, but he's going to try to shift the blame to the BOT. If so, he will be unsuccessful.

[clenz]

I wouldn't trust Watts with $5. I think there is a very high probability that UAB will keep football dropped, but he's going to try to shift the blame to the BOT. If so, he will be unsuccessful.
Yeah.

At this point there is zero chance anyone but Watts is getting any blame for this if it isn't brought back.

[tribe_pride]

Press conference 4:00 central. That has to be a good sign of reinstatement. Probably would have crawled away with a press release if they were not reinstating though I could be wrong.

[PAllen]

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/6/1/8699599/uab-football-return

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Reports are pouring in that UAB is reinstating football. The next interesting thing to see is what the timeline is, whether CUSA will keep them around, etc.

[Laker]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/12991674/uab-blazers-football-return

[DFW HOYA]

Returning in 2016. Great news.

OK, Boston University, you're back on the clock...

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/06/live_updates_decision_day_for.html#incart_most-commented_sports_article (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/06/uab_will_reinstate_football_so.html)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hope you don't mind DFW.


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/535269382780243968/6MTyURpL_normal.jpeg
LehighFootballNation @LFN
(https://twitter.com/LFN)Now that UAB has reinstated football, perhaps now it's time for @BUAthletics (https://twitter.com/BUAthletics/) to take a second look at reinstating football... :)