Is this common in I-AA???

[FargoBison]

This year the Montana schools have boughten out road games to NDSU, Cal Poly, and SDSU. MSU decided to play a DII instead of traveling to NDSU next year because they had to have 6 home games. Montana is all about the money(can't play a road game unless you give them 300k) so they sent SDSU a 50 thousand dollar check and said "thanks for coming to Missoula two straight years but we won't return the favor one time." And well Montana has also bought Cal Poly out not once but twice over the past few years. The Mustangs finally have gotten the clue that Montana will not go to SLO so they are finished scheduling Montana. So my question is does your school follow the same practice or does your school usually honor the return trip of a home and home or even a two for one?

[GAD]

This year the Montana schools have boughten out road games to NDSU, Cal Poly, and SDSU. MSU decided to play a DII instead of traveling to NDSU next year because they had to have 6 home games. Montana is all about the money(can't play a road game unless you give them 300k) so they sent SDSU a 50 thousand dollar check and said "thanks for coming to Missoula two straight years but we won't return the favor one time." And well Montana has also bought Cal Poly out not once but twice over the past few years. The Mustangs finally have gotten the clue that Montana will not go to SLO so they are finished scheduling Montana. So my question is does your school follow the same practice or does your school usually honor the return trip of a home and home or even a two for one?
Most schools with a really good fan base won't. It's business not personal

[GannonFan]

Truth be told, most never would agree for a home and home anyway - just be up front with it and say you're not going to have a home and home. UD has done that with Albany, Lehigh, Hofstra, New Hampshire, Monmouth, Holy Cross, etc for sometime. They know in advance they aren't getting a home game in return. It's all good if both parties agree to it. Backing out of home and homes, even if the possibility is in the contract, just seems a little heavy handed to me and just a tease.

[putter]

First of all, the last 3 years Montana has had a $1 million dollar deficit that the school had to pay off so they went for the checks. This meant buying out previously scheduled games for ones that brought more revenue to the school in order to get rid of the debt. Once that is paid off, who knows. It hurts also adding UNC to the Big Sky because that is one less OOC game they can schedule. I agree that Montana needs to start playing I-AA teams on the road in OOC but when you make $300k per home game, it gets addictive.

I can not speak for MSU as I don't know the reason why they backed out of the NDSU game.

[bison95]

I guess the Montana schools are chicken to play a quality opponent on the road (out of conference) so they make shady deals, and back out. What integrity they have!!!!!

[YoUDeeMan]

This year the Montana schools have boughten out road games to NDSU, Cal Poly, and SDSU. MSU decided to play a DII instead of traveling to NDSU next year because they had to have 6 home games. Montana is all about the money(can't play a road game unless you give them 300k) so they sent SDSU a 50 thousand dollar check and said "thanks for coming to Missoula two straight years but we won't return the favor one time." And well Montana has also bought Cal Poly out not once but twice over the past few years. The Mustangs finally have gotten the clue that Montana will not go to SLO so they are finished scheduling Montana. So my question is does your school follow the same practice or does your school usually honor the return trip of a home and home or even a two for one?

Montana very recently screwed two A-10 teams out of the second half of their home and home schedule. :nono:

That issue got around the A-10 quickly.

A word to all I-AA ADs: if you schedule Montana for a home and home, get the first game at home or forget about ever seeing the Griz at your place during the regular season.

[putter]

Truth be told, most never would agree for a home and home anyway - just be up front with it and say you're not going to have a home and home. UD has done that with Albany, Lehigh, Hofstra, New Hampshire, Monmouth, Holy Cross, etc for sometime. They know in advance they aren't getting a home game in return. It's all good if both parties agree to it. Backing out of home and homes, even if the possibility is in the contract, just seems a little heavy handed to me and just a tease.

I agree you shouldn't back out but if you contact the school early enough that school wins big! Our game this year against Central Washington was bought out for $50k so we could play Iowa. Central Washington got $50 grand and they scheduled another game, not bad for them.

[putter]

I guess the Montana schools are chicken to play a quality opponent on the road (out of conference) so they make shady deals, and back out. What integrity they have!!!!!


Learn the facts bison before you blow a gasket. I personally don't like it but when you are getting a lot of pressure from the State to handle an overnight deficit, you do what you have to.

[bison95]

Learn the facts bison before you blow a gasket. I personally don't like it but when you are getting a lot of pressure from the State to handle an overnight deficit, you do what you have to.

What goes around comes around:nod: :nod: :nod: Have fun with your home OC game against D2 schools:cool:

[FargoBison]

Truth be told, most never would agree for a home and home anyway - just be up front with it and say you're not going to have a home and home. UD has done that with Albany, Lehigh, Hofstra, New Hampshire, Monmouth, Holy Cross, etc for sometime. They know in advance they aren't getting a home game in return. It's all good if both parties agree to it. Backing out of home and homes, even if the possibility is in the contract, just seems a little heavy handed to me and just a tease.

I agree with that 100%, if you never plan on making the return trip you should say so especially when your dealing with schools like Cal Poly, SDSU, and NDSU who need home games and count on the return trip. I doubt our AD would have entered into the contract with MSU if he knew they were not going to honor it. Now NDSU loses the gate of what was a probable sell out and is left needing to find 3 home games since we only have 3 scheduled.

[putter]

Montana very recently screwed two A-10 teams out of the second half of their home and home schedule. :nono:

That issue got around the A-10 quickly.

A word to all I-AA ADs: if you schedule Montana for a home and home, get the first game at home or forget about ever seeing the Griz at your place during the regular season.

What were the A-10 teams? Montana went to Maine and they made a return visit and Hofstra came to Missoula and then Montana went to New York. The game against Hofstra was supposed to be the back end of the home and home in 2002 and was cancelled for a home game to help handle the aforementioned deficit. Fans didn't like it because we scheduled a D-2 but two A-10 teamd didn't get screwed.:confused:

[GrizFoo]

I'm not too happy about UM buying out SDSU next year. All the past buyouts were fine by me, but this one doesn't seem right. Actually, I didn't really like the CP buyout, or change back to game in msla, but I completely understood that one.

I do agree with the other posters about the money thing, and schools having to do what they have to do to bring in money and to get 6-7 home games for fans.

But UM is in decent shape financially now, SDSU is a good, very solid program, and I'd love to play them at their house. Like I said on eGriz, there should be some balance so UM's honor isn't tarnished. I don't think UM will ever have a problem getting teams to come to msla, because everyone seems to like playing in Wash-Griz, and teams love having a chance to knock off a team that is consistantly in the top 10, and with the tradition UM has. Many BSC coaches/players have said that UM is a game circled on their calendar, UM does seem to get other team's A game week in and week out. I'm sure teams like GSU, in the day, McNeese, or other powerhouses get the same. It does seem Wash-Griz and/or playing the Griz brings out a different level of effort from opponents many times.

[FargoBison]

Learn the facts bison before you blow a gasket. I personally don't like it but when you are getting a lot of pressure from the State to handle an overnight deficit, you do what you have to.

I thought the deficit was fixed? I also don't understand why Montana won't go to SDSU, you would think you would want to honor the contract with any school willing to go to your place twice for one home game.

[putter]

What goes around comes around:nod: :nod: :nod: Have fun with your home OC game against D2 schools:cool:

You mean like when we played NDSU?

[grizbeer]

What were the A-10 teams? Montana went to Maine and they made a return visit and Hofstra came to Missoula and then Montana went to New York. The game against Hofstra was not either end of a home and home and was cancelled for a home game to help handle the aforementioned deficit. Fans didn't like it because we scheduled a D-2 but no A-10 team got screwed.:confused:
Hofstra did get screwed, Montana was supposed to go back there in 2005 to return the 2004 trip. I remember Hofstra's coach was livid, said the Griz were scared to play them and other crap.

No other A-10 team had an unfulfilled home and home, Montana went to Maine first, Maine returned the following year.

The buyouts have to stop, or the Griz will end up playing all D-II teams.

Gardi's comments when the game was bought out:


"They film 'The Sopranos' in my hometown (Harrison) in New Jersey, and I'm going to tell them they should be filming in Missoula, Mont., because that's where all the shysters and crooks are," he said. "It's the worst thing you can do, to cancel a contract like that. Very unethical, if you ask me. And if they did it to pick up a I-A game and make $250,000, that makes it even worse."

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2004/12/22/sports/sports03.txt

[AppGuy04]

If Montana continues to do this, it might be a little difficult to find a quality opponent to come to Missoula

[putter]

I thought the deficit was fixed? I also don't understand why Montana won't go to SDSU, you would think you would want to honor the contract with any school willing to go to your place twice for one home game.

No the deficit is supposed to be taken care of this year with the help of the Iowa payout. I thought the SDSU situation was bull and many Griz fans were upset with that. Most Griz fans want to see and all I-AA schedule like we did in 2002 when our OOC was Maine, Hofstra and Poly.

[bison95]

You mean like when we played NDSU?

Yep, D2's making their first transition year to I-AA need measurement games, and traveling to your home works for that. Now that UM and MSU have shown they are willing to **** on I-AA programs, no self respecting I-AA would contract games with them unless the first 2 of a 3 game series were at their home.

[grizbeer]

I thought the deficit was fixed? I also don't understand why Montana won't go to SDSU, you would think you would want to honor the contract with any school willing to go to your place twice for one home game.I don't understand it either, but here is the explanation, as it were, from the A.D.:

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2006/11/10/grizmania/griz-gameday/gday07.txt

I really don't get this quote in an article about cancelling the SDSU game, though:


In addition, we will look at home-and-home matchups with other I-AA teams, knowing, of course, the cost to fly anywhere in the country via charter (which is necessary out of Missoula) can top $100,000 per trip - even to places such as South Dakota State.

[putter]

Hofstra did get screwed, Montana was supposed to go back there in 2005 to return the 2004 trip. I remember Hofstra's coach was livid, said the Griz were scared to play them and other crap.

No other A-10 team had an unfulfilled home and home, Montana went to Maine first, Maine returned the following year.

The buyouts have to stop, or the Griz will end up playing all D-II teams.

Gardi's comments when the game was bought out:



http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2004/12/22/sports/sports03.txt

Yep, my bad. Poster said that 2 A-10 teams were backed out on and that threw me off. Hofstra did get the short end, and i remember those quotes..Hilarious

[putter]

Yep, D2's making their first transition year to I-AA need measurement games, and traveling to your home works for that. Now that UM and MSU have shown they are willing to **** on I-AA programs, no self respecting I-AA would contract games with them unless the first 2 of a 3 game series were at their home.

Can't argue with you about the past actions. When you have 2 OOC games now it seems like UM and now MSU are trying to make as much money as possible by hosting those games. It's not right but fans don't get to make the decision.

[bison95]

Can't argue with you about the past actions. When you have 2 OOC games now it seems like UM and now MSU are trying to make as much money as possible by hosting those games. It's not right but fans don't get to make the decision.

I don't think anyone is pissed at fans of UM or MSU, just pissed at the administrators for f'in up our chances to see a great battle on our home turf:bang: :bang:

[james_lawfirm]

It was common knowledge (Read: RUMOR) that Montana refused a home and home against Appalachian State after the NC game. TOO BAD!!

I, for one, would have gone to both games.

Maybe someday Montana will agree.

[Go Bison]

There is no doubt that Montana has been very good for quite a while, but it really helps when you get to most if not all of your OOC games at home. Then play one money game that doesn't matter if you win or lose.

I just hope when NDSU makes the playoffs that the process of which team plays at home is fair based on their records.

[McNeese75]

I am not aware of McNeese cancelling the return trip on any home and home contracts (although it is quite possible it has happened, I know it has not occured very often). We have however had several contracts bought out by the opposing team (or worse, just refuse to play). The only way to make that work is make the buyout punitive so you can really make good money with a late scheduled DII and the check. If the buyout is too low, the Montana's , etc of the world will always send a check.

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

Prior to UM buying out the contract I had really hoped SDSU would have UM or MSU on the OOC every year (assuming we get into the Gateway). Now, if in the Gateway, I really don't care if we ever have anything to do with any of the BS conference schools. We can find other schools to schedule who won't back out on a contract. Take a look at GSU, they honor their contracts and word. Something the Griz and Bobcats should look into.

[Go Bison]

Prior to UM buying out the contract I had really hoped SDSU would have UM or MSU on the OOC every year (assuming we get into the Gateway). Now, if in the Gateway, I really don't care if we ever have anything to do with any of the BS conference schools. We can find other schools to schedule who won't back out on a contract. Take a look at GSU, they honor their contracts and word. Something the Griz and Bobcats should look into.

Well said. If NDSU and SDSU get in to the Gateway, they should schedule Cal Poly and UC Davis for the OOC games. Cal Poly and UC Davis has helped out the Dakota State schools, meanwhile the Montana schools have done the opposite.

[catbob]

Sheesh Bison fans, grow some thicker skin. You act as if every single year the Bobcats cancel OOC games. We went to SFA in 2002, Cal Poly in 2003 AND 2005, (had CP at home in 2004 and SFA at home in 2005) and since Texas A&M was recently added to the schedule, we unfortunately had to buyout the NDSU game, which I was really looking forward too.

Don't forget that UNC joining the conference took away one OOC game we had previously enjoyed. We now have only 3 games for OOC, one IA, and we want to have as many home games as we can.

I am unhappy with the decision, but you can understand it from a financial standpoint. I was really looking forward to a trip out to the dome.

[bison95]

Sheesh Bison fans, grow some thicker skin. You act as if every single year the Bobcats cancel OOC games. We went to SFA in 2002, Cal Poly in 2003 AND 2005, (had CP at home in 2004 and SFA at home in 2005) and since Texas A&M was recently added to the schedule, we unfortunately had to buyout the NDSU game, which I was really looking forward too.

Don't forget that UNC joining the conference took away one OOC game we had previously enjoyed. We now have only 3 games for OOC, one IA, and we want to have as many home games as we can.

I am unhappy with the decision, but you can understand it from a financial standpoint. I was really looking forward to a trip out to the dome.

Word in the alley is the A&M game wasn't the problem, word is you scheduled a D2 for the 15th:nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2:

[Mr. C]

There are other teams that have pulled out of games in the past as well. Northwestern State pulled out of a trip to Appalachian State very late in the scheduling process to play one of those awful I-A Louisiana schools instead. It left the Mountaineers with only four home games and forced them to scramble to fill a date, which ASU eventually did with Kansas.

Southern has been notorious over the years for backing out of the back end of contracts. Just ask McNeese State.

[AmsterBison]

Meh. It's not personal, it's only business. My advice: NDSU should ask for bigger buyout clauses ($100,000+) or get the game in Fargo first. It's ironic that NDSU fans are getting upset about this because NDSU has already been making noise about buying out the Northeastern game.

[FargoBison]

Meh. It's not personal, it's only business. My advice: NDSU should ask for bigger buyout clauses ($100,000+) or get the game in Fargo first. It's ironic that NDSU fans are getting upset about this because NDSU has already been making noise about buying out the Northeastern game.

Northeastern was a just a money game for NU, so NDSU never had to buy them out. Unless you are thinking about the MVSU game which is a home and home but I haven't heard a lot of talk about NDSU buying it out.

[Bison05]

Meh. It's not personal, it's only business. My advice: NDSU should ask for bigger buyout clauses ($100,000+) or get the game in Fargo first. It's ironic that NDSU fans are getting upset about this because NDSU has already been making noise about buying out the Northeastern game.

Correct me if Im wrong but I thought we paid Northeastern to come to Fargo, it was never a home and home contract.

[Bison05]

Northeastern was a just a money game for NU, so NDSU never had to buy them out. Unless you are thinking about the MVSU game which is a home and home but I haven't heard a lot of talk about NDSU buying it out.

Beat me to it.

[AmsterBison]

Hehe, you caught me, I was hoping to get Bison fans to stop complaining for five minutes :)

Montana State, by paying the buyout, is honoring their contract. If you don't want teams to buy out of contracts in the future, don't give them the opportunity to buy out of them for 1/2 the cost of what it would take to bring a replacement team in.

[catbob]

Well if we dropped you for a DII, that sucks, we've have a better chance of beating you. No offense to NDSU, but we just suck at home versus DIIs. :)

[Tailbone]

Economics 101 is a course that must not be offered at the Dakota universities. Apparently, reality 101 is likewise not offered.

Some fans would like to believe that big money college athletics is about something other than money....it's not.
As long as fans will pay to see the home team play a Div-II opponent, the admin will continue to schedule them.

Since the Griz play in the "weak" Big Sky conference, I guess the "good" competition will have to come in the play-offs, which - if I might remind you - the Griz have attended for the last 14 years, 5 of which ended in Chatty.
You don't have to like the formula, but it does seem to work!

As was suggested, perhaps the schools who enter a home and home should negotiate greater buyouts. Before entering contract negotiations however, perhaps negotiation 101 would be in order.

I, for one, don't expect much to change as UM may soon have to finance stadium expansion. If 1A schools will pony up 650k or so for the Griz to visit, the AD would be crazy not to buy-out of the back half of an H&H.

If IOWA doesn't come to Washington-Griz next year, I am going to logon to their message board and start crying about how the Hawkeyes must be afraid of the Griz.

(That's for the NDSU clowns who don't "get it")

[Bison05]

Economics 101 is a course that must not be offered at the Dakota universities. Apparently, reality 101 is likewise not offered.

Some fans would like to believe that big money college athletics is about something other than money....it's not.
As long as fans will pay to see the home team play a Div-II opponent, the admin will continue to schedule them.

Since the Griz play in the "weak" Big Sky conference, I guess the "good" competition will have to come in the play-offs, which - if I might remind you - the Griz have attended for the last 14 years, 5 of which ended in Chatty.
You don't have to like the formula, but it does seem to work!

As was suggested, perhaps the schools who enter a home and home should negotiate greater buyouts. Before entering contract negotiations however, perhaps negotiation 101 would be in order.

I, for one, don't expect much to change as UM may soon have to finance stadium expansion. If 1A schools will pony up 650k or so for the Griz to visit, the AD would be crazy not to buy-out of the back half of an H&H.

If IOWA doesn't come to Washington-Griz next year, I am going to logon to their message board and start crying about how the Hawkeyes must be afraid of the Griz.

(That's for the NDSU clowns who don't "get it")

Oh, we get it. All most of us are saying is that we hope our administration never schedules you. And by the way, that Iowa analogy is plain stupid. That was not a home and home contract.

[GrizFoo]

I don't get why NDSU fans are so outraged by this, when SDSU and CP fans, while disappointed by the buyouts (just as Griz fans for the most part are) doesnt seem to think it only a case of fear, rather than a bit more of a complex scheduling situation.

Admittedly I'm a it pissed UM doesn't get to got to SDSU and didnt get to go to CP. But the scheduling isn't out of fear. that is obvious to everyone but a select number of NDSU fans.

I've lost all interest in following NDSU, not that anyone cares, mainly because they just can't get it thru their thick skulls that UM is not afraid to play anyone, and just because NDSU isn't on the top of UM' list of teams to schedule, it doesn't mean UM is trying to avoid playing the Beezon.

Give me CP or SDSU any day, both are right up there with NDSU as far as quality, give or take, but they don't sound like broken records.

[Bison05]

I don't get why NDSU fans are so outraged by this, when SDSU and CP fans, while disappointed by the buyouts (just as Griz fans for the most part are) doesnt seem to think it only a case of fear, rather than a bit more of a complex scheduling situation.

Admittedly I'm a it pissed UM doesn't get to got to SDSU and didnt get to go to CP. But the scheduling isn't out of fear. that is obvious to everyone but a select number of NDSU fans.

I've lost all interest in following NDSU, not that anyone cares, mainly because they just can't get it thru their thick skulls that UM is not afraid to play anyone, and just because NDSU isn't on the top of UM' list of teams to schedule, it doesn't mean UM is trying to avoid playing the Beezon.

Give me CP or SDSU any day, both are right up there with NDSU as far as quality, give or take, but they don't sound like broken records.

I think a vast majority of Bison fans understand that this is a business decision and has nothing to do with being afraid. However our gripe with it is that it is underhanded, and we hope that our administration wont put up with it in the future. Also I know many SDSU fans who feel the same way.

[PantherRob82]

We even gave Drake a return game. :eek:

[STACCATS]

Bison 05, get a clue.

Msu is going to have 6 home games every year. So when the A&M game became possible, we bought out the NDSU "away" game in order to still have 6 home games. Who we scheduled is of little consequence to the arguement. So no, we didn't buy out the NDSU game for a DII, it was all due to the A&M game.

[GrizFoo]

That's good to hear b05. I was beginning to wonder. I think you'll find that a lot of Griz fans don't like the buyouts of good teams either. And I've mentioned that I dont' think it is that honorable too. Sure money is big, I'm all for getting as much as possible, but I also don't like that UM is kind of big for their britches (so to speak) and buying out teams all willy-nilly. Hoftra was understandable, that would have been a costly trip. Central Wash was a DII team and we got Iowa instead...I like that. The CP game last year, I did enjoy it being a home game, but still, as many times as UM plays CP, I'd think we could make a trip down there.

But the one that pisses me off the most is SDSU, the financiall situation is over, but I do understand us wanting to expand the stadium. But after the stadium we'll want and indoor practice facility, then more seats, and of course that will be a never ending process of wanting more money to expand etc.

So at some point UM needs to realize this and plan for it, so we do't have to buy teams out, and get a bad reputation for doing it all the time.

[Tailbone]

Oh, we get it. All most of us are saying is that we hope our administration never schedules you. And by the way, that Iowa analogy is plain stupid. That was not a home and home contract.

Was 2003 a home & home (I don't remember)?
It is (obviously) unlikely that the UM AD would schedule a return trip w/ a D-II team......That's the reason for the Iowa analogy.
Bison fans have done a lot of whining and pounding their chests since then.

NDSU has proved that they can play I-AA ball, if they continue to play on the road when they can fill the FFD, the AD will be displaying more bravado than brains!

We'll see if you sing the same song in 2-3 years.

[Bison05]

GrizFoo I can understand where your other post came from, because I have constantly seen other Bison fans post that you somehow owe us a game for the 2003 game, which is totally ridiculous. I have a ton of respect for your program, it only this policy of signing home and home contracts and then treating it as a money game that upsets me.

And Staccasts get a clue, I never said that you didnt buy-out our game because of the Texas A&M game. If your going to criticize someones post make sure you know who your criticizing.

[Bison05]

Was 2003 a home & home (I don't remember)?
It is (obviously) unlikely that the UM AD would schedule a return trip w/ a D-II team......That's the reason for the Iowa analogy.
Bison fans have done a lot of whining and pounding their chests since then.

NDSU has proved that they can play I-AA ball, if they continue to play on the road when they can fill the FFD, the AD will be displaying more bravado than brains!

We'll see if you sing the same song in 2-3 years.

TailBone I agree that 2003 was not a home and home and NDSU has no right to feel entitled to a game in fargo because of it, no matter what other NDSU fans believe.

[Tailbone]

TailBone I agree that 2003 was not a home and home and NDSU has no right to feel entitled to a game in fargo because of it, no matter what other NDSU fans believe.

Thanks, a voice of reason.
Though there is no obligation, I would still like to see the game.
Anywhere, anytime.

[Longhorn]

I guess the Montana schools are chicken to play a quality opponent on the road (out of conference) so they make shady deals, and back out. What integrity they have!!!!!


:smiley_wi You ND folks learn quick :nod:

Seriously, the MT fans are good people...but don't play poker with their AD...the A10 fans know that MT won't travel and will renege on previous home and home packages...:bang: ...and until it hurts MT in more than the pocket book they won't change. Why should they? They have a great 1AA setup, super fans, win most of the games at home, and make the big bucks (relatively speaking of course, by 1AA standards). Now, is refusing to play home-and-homes or backing out on previous agreements ethical, fair, just or whatever else you might care to name it? Probably not...but it's business. The only way to make MT "pay" is to beat them when you get the chance.

[X-Factor]

Bison 05, get a clue.

Msu is going to have 6 home games every year. So when the A&M game became possible, we bought out the NDSU "away" game in order to still have 6 home games. Who we scheduled is of little consequence to the arguement. So no, we didn't buy out the NDSU game for a DII, it was all due to the A&M game.

I guess if you are going to get blown out might as well get paid for it :o

[FargoBison]

I don't get why NDSU fans are so outraged by this, when SDSU and CP fans, while disappointed by the buyouts (just as Griz fans for the most part are) doesnt seem to think it only a case of fear, rather than a bit more of a complex scheduling situation.

Admittedly I'm a it pissed UM doesn't get to got to SDSU and didnt get to go to CP. But the scheduling isn't out of fear. that is obvious to everyone but a select number of NDSU fans.

I've lost all interest in following NDSU, not that anyone cares, mainly because they just can't get it thru their thick skulls that UM is not afraid to play anyone, and just because NDSU isn't on the top of UM' list of teams to schedule, it doesn't mean UM is trying to avoid playing the Beezon.

Give me CP or SDSU any day, both are right up there with NDSU as far as quality, give or take, but they don't sound like broken records.

I'll say it right now, any fan who thinks the Montana schools are afraid to travel is an idiot because its all about the $$$$$. I don't agree with the practice of buying teams out but I do understand why it happens. I am only a little pissed at Montana, I thought what they did to SDSU was bit underhanded but I still have plenty of respect for the Griz regardless of how they schedule. MSU will be on my crap list for a while since they dropped NDSU to get a 6th home game, NDSU needed that game. I know it's all a business but since I am rooting for a school that had 5 home games this year and I hope to god we can have 5 next year they will get no sympathy from me for needing 6. I think you Montana guys need to understand the Great West schools only have 2 garaunteed home games each year and I don't see how you can blame any of us for being a bit pissed when a good team backs out one of our teams.

[Tailbone]

As I recall (and I may not be remembering correctly) Cal Poly didn't have a problem with the buy-out. I believe they needed schedule flexibility for the inaugural season of the GWFC.

[FargoBison]

As I recall (and I may not be remembering correctly) Cal Poly didn't have a problem with the buy-out. I believe they needed schedule flexibility for the inaugural season of the GWFC.

Their coach really loved the flexibility...


"They won't play us here, and they bought us out twice," said Ellerson, who said the rivalry might not last much longer.

"I'm not aware that we'll be playing them — not home or away — any time in the near future."

[BisonBacker]

Learn the facts bison before you blow a gasket. I personally don't like it but when you are getting a lot of pressure from the State to handle an overnight deficit, you do what you have to.
Thats a bull**** excuse and you know it. Hell dam near every team in IAA can claim a defecit or financial problems. Give that lame excuse up. You guys are getting a great reputation.

[BisonBacker]

Economics 101 is a course that must not be offered at the Dakota universities. Apparently, reality 101 is likewise not offered.

Some fans would like to believe that big money college athletics is about something other than money....it's not.
As long as fans will pay to see the home team play a Div-II opponent, the admin will continue to schedule them.

Since the Griz play in the "weak" Big Sky conference, I guess the "good" competition will have to come in the play-offs, which - if I might remind you - the Griz have attended for the last 14 years, 5 of which ended in Chatty.
You don't have to like the formula, but it does seem to work!

As was suggested, perhaps the schools who enter a home and home should negotiate greater buyouts. Before entering contract negotiations however, perhaps negotiation 101 would be in order.

I, for one, don't expect much to change as UM may soon have to finance stadium expansion. If 1A schools will pony up 650k or so for the Griz to visit, the AD would be crazy not to buy-out of the back half of an H&H.

If IOWA doesn't come to Washington-Griz next year, I am going to logon to their message board and start crying about how the Hawkeyes must be afraid of the Griz.

(That's for the NDSU clowns who don't "get it")

No we have those courses but we also have something apparently you and many others do not and that is called integrity and honesty.

[putter]

Thats a bull**** excuse and you know it. Hell dam near every team in IAA can claim a defecit or financial problems. Give that lame excuse up. You guys are getting a great reputation.

Do you live in Montana? Because if you did you would know that the AD lost his job over the uncovering of the $1 million deficit so I don't think it is a bull**** excuse. At least the AD didn't think so when they forced him to resign, but whatever. You can go climb up your state tree, the telephone poll..: flamemad

[BisonBacker]

Do you live in Montana? Because if you did you would know that the AD lost his job over the uncovering of the $1 million deficit so I don't think it is a bull**** excuse. At least the AD didn't think so when they forced him to resign, but whatever. You can go climb up your state tree, the telephone poll..: flamemad

Enjoy your fine reputation

[FargoBison]

BB, I think the Montana guys get the picture just let them be. If they want to play Fort Lewis, SUU, and some bodybag I-A money game for the next 10 years then I hope their AD's are happy because I know their fans won't be. From what I have seen most of the Montana schools fans hate this practice of buying out games but since they have little power over what their ADs do they can't do anything about it.

It sucks MSU backed out to play us but I'm sure there are plenty of I-AA's who would be glad to do a home and home with NDSU, heck we can count on just about any Southland team to play us and honor their end of the contract.

[putter]

BB, I think the Montana guys get the picture just let them be. If they want to play Fort Lewis, SUU, and some bodybag I-A money game for the next 10 years then I hope their AD's are happy because I know their fans won't be. From what I have seen most of the Montana schools fans hate this practice of buying out games but since they have little power over what their ADs do they can't do anything about it.
It sucks MSU backed out to play us but I'm sure there are plenty of I-AA's who would be glad to do a home and home with NDSU, heck we can count on just about any Southland team to play us and honor their end of the contract.

Thank you FargoBison. We had a discussion last year when we had Ft. Lewis on the schedule and how we had plenty of quality I-AA teams that we could play, NDSU included, but the admin has been focused on generating $$$ for the university and getting out of the red. Can't say I like it as I really enjoyed 2002 when our OOC was Maine, Hofstra and Cal Poly :thumbsup:

[Husky Alum]

NDSU was giving NU money (or other consideration) to come to Fargo, regardless (logic being a Rocky Hager homecoming would sell more tickets). The issue was HOW MUCH NU got. The idea was that if NU didn't ask for a return, the "guarantee" would be larger.

NU is owed home games by a bunch of schools (NW State, YSU, Holy Cross, and likely after next year Cal-Davis), so adding NDSU to the list would probably have been silly, so they took the extra cash.

[Ronbo]

Montana very recently screwed two A-10 teams out of the second half of their home and home schedule. :nono:

That issue got around the A-10 quickly.

A word to all I-AA ADs: if you schedule Montana for a home and home, get the first game at home or forget about ever seeing the Griz at your place during the regular season.

Who was the second pray tell? We bought out Hofstra, crap we paid them 10 times what they make at a home game. LOL

[Hansel]

NDSU was giving NU money (or other consideration) to come to Fargo, regardless (logic being a Rocky Hager homecoming would sell more tickets). The issue was HOW MUCH NU got. The idea was that if NU didn't ask for a return, the "guarantee" would be larger.

NU is owed home games by a bunch of schools (NW State, YSU, Holy Cross, and likely after next year Cal-Davis), so adding NDSU to the list would probably have been silly, so they took the extra cash.
I think we paid y'all close to 80k

pretty high for a I-AA guarantee

[Proud Griz Man]

This year the Montana schools have boughten out road games to NDSU, Cal Poly, and SDSU. MSU decided to play a DII instead of traveling to NDSU next year because they had to have 6 home games. Montana is all about the money(can't play a road game unless you give them 300k) so they sent SDSU a 50 thousand dollar check and said "thanks for coming to Missoula two straight years but we won't return the favor one time." And well Montana has also bought Cal Poly out not once but twice over the past few years. The Mustangs finally have gotten the clue that Montana will not go to SLO so they are finished scheduling Montana. So my question is does your school follow the same practice or does your school usually honor the return trip of a home and home or even a two for one?

Boughten?

The Griz have traveled to Maine, Hofstra, Northern Iowa, McNeese, Sam Houston State, Cal Poly, etc. Currently our A.D. is assessing how UM can raise money to possibly expand the WA-Griz stadium (>100% attendance).

[Bison05]

Can we please let this thread die, I think all sides have had their say.

[Tod]

This year the Montana schools have boughten out road games to NDSU, Cal Poly, and SDSU. MSU decided to play a DII instead of traveling to NDSU next year because they had to have 6 home games. Montana is all about the money(can't play a road game unless you give them 300k) so they sent SDSU a 50 thousand dollar check and said "thanks for coming to Missoula two straight years but we won't return the favor one time." And well Montana has also bought Cal Poly out not once but twice over the past few years. The Mustangs finally have gotten the clue that Montana will not go to SLO so they are finished scheduling Montana. So my question is does your school follow the same practice or does your school usually honor the return trip of a home and home or even a two for one?

More hatred for Montana. Some sort of complex, here. I can't wait for the next NDSU thread about how much Montana sucks. This could be worse than the USD threads, with all of the hatred I've seen from Bison fans today. : smh : : smh : : smh : : smh :

[Ronbo]

And we backed them for admittance to the Conference. Now I'm kind of glad they didn't make it, we have enough envious foes.

[FargoBison]

More hatred for Montana. Some sort of complex, here. I can't wait for the next NDSU thread about how much Montana sucks. This could be worse than the USD threads, with all of the hatred I've seen from Bison fans today. : smh : : smh : : smh : : smh :

I hate the way Montana schedules, I have a ton of respect for your team and fans but I think what you did to SDSU was wrong. I know college football is a business but if Montana wants 7 or 6 home games every year just pay teams to come to Montana and don't even bother with home and homes. NDSU did that in DII, if fans know their team is never going to get a home game they won't be pissed when it doesn't happen and the only person they can complain to is their AD.

[grizbeer]

I think most Montana fans would agree that we don't like backing out of contracts and not playing at least 1 away I-AA game. I read this week the 12th game might be back on, that would certainly help, but really there isn't a lot we fans can do.

As far as not playing teams because the Griz are scared, that really doesn't make any sense. Realistically all non-conference away games will be played early in the season, when a loss doesn't hurt much (see UM vs NDSU 2003, UM vs SHSU 2004, MSU every year they made the playoffs), and the Griz have had the most success when they played tough OOC games early in the season.

[Stang Fever]

I do understand how some of these teams feel. because we (Cal Poly) have been on the short end of the stick with Montana. We have played there so many times and Montana has only played at Cal Poly once and that was my 2nd year playing. People understand when you buy out of a lesser opponent to take a big payday from Iowa but when you do it year in and year out. how can you get anyone to come play up there for a home and home. when all you ever do is screw the team in the long run.

the only home and home game someone should schedule with Montana is a first home game at the other school then go to Montana the second year. if it is not signed that way then you are wasting your time

[grizbeer]

I do understand how some of these teams feel. because we (Cal Poly) have been on the short end of the stick with Montana. We have played there so many times and Montana has only played at Cal Poly once and that was my 2nd year playing. People understand when you buy out of a lesser opponent to take a big payday from Iowa but when you do it year in and year out. how can you get anyone to come play up there for a home and home. when all you ever do is screw the team in the long run.

the only home and home game someone should schedule with Montana is a first home game at the other school then go to Montana the second year. if it is not signed that way then you are wasting your timeI think most Montana fans would agree with that, and if other AD would agree to it, then maybe the problem would be fixed, but as long as Montana can get $600k for a road game, and can get a sellout for a home game and a team to play there I don't see it changing. the only thing I can tell you is that it isn't the fans fault. And it is going to get worse with another 5,000 seats that need to be sold 7 times a year with the next expansion, then the luxury box and stadium upgrades that follow that. Maybe that is why you don't see a lot of teams like Montana in I-AA, it is difficult to balance everything.

All I can say is you have the Griz fans sympathy, but I don't see the clock turning back now. It is ironic that the richer you get the more you need it. Things seemed so much simpler when the Griz only drew 18,000 fans per game, without all those big budgets and responsibilities. Now with more money it gets more complicated.

[Tod]

I hate the way Montana schedules, I have a ton of respect for your team and fans but I think what you did to SDSU was wrong. I know college football is a business but if Montana wants 7 or 6 home games every year just pay teams to come to Montana and don't even bother with home and homes. NDSU did that in DII, if fans know their team is never going to get a home game they won't be pissed when it doesn't happen and the only person they can complain to is their AD.

What brought this on suddenly? Did I miss something?

[grizbeer]

What brought this on suddenly? Did I miss something?Last weekend Montana announced they backed out of the home and home with SDSU - SDSU came to Missoula 2 years in a row as part of a 2 for 1, and Montana bought out the away game.

The same week MSU bought out the 2nd 1/2 of their home and home with NDSU. It is easy to understand their frustration.

[Stang Fever]

Yeah I think you missed something Todd. People were venting on how UM buys out of there home and home. I am not mad at the fans. its the athletic department that makes me wonder why say you will do a home and home if you plan on buying out.

Who i should be talking to is the AD. only schedule to play them if the first game is played at your home field first. but taking a 500+k pay day. there is not a I-AA team that wouldnt do that

[CopperCat]

I don't understand it either, but here is the explanation, as it were, from the A.D.:

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2006/11/10/grizmania/griz-gameday/gday07.txt

I really don't get this quote in an article about cancelling the SDSU game, though:

The UM AD is sorta right. Chartering can get pretty pricey, I can speak from experience having worked a bit in the aviation industry. But still, $100k to get to SDSU seems a bit steep. And given that UM has the aviation hookup with Denny Washington, I am a bit miffed by that too.

[Tod]

Last weekend Montana announced they backed out of the home and home with SDSU - SDSU came to Missoula 2 years in a row as part of a 2 for 1, and Montana bought out the away game.

The same week MSU bought out the 2nd 1/2 of their home and home with NDSU. It is easy to understand their frustration.

Yup, I did miss it. At least now I know it's not just sour grapes from NDSU fans.

I have to admit, that sucks. :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2:

[Tod]

Yeah I think you missed something Todd. People were venting on how UM buys out of there home and home. I am not mad at the fans. its the athletic department that makes me wonder why say you will do a home and home if you plan on buying out.

Who i should be talking to is the AD. only schedule to play them if the first game is played at your home field first. but taking a 500+k pay day. there is not a I-AA team that wouldnt do that

Ensure the first game is at home, or insist on a much higher buy-out. In that order.

[Stang Fever]

Either or...Make it so pricey that they have to come or have the first game at your place. If you dont do that you are crazy cause if there is one thing we all know about history is that it repeats itself and UM has shown that year in and year out

[grizbeer]

Either or...Make it so pricey that they have to come or have the first game at your place. If you dont do that you are crazy cause if there is one thing we all know about history is that it repeats itself and UM has shown that year in and year out
Let's don't get crazy, the buyouts just started a couple years ago. however they do seem to be like a drug.

[Stang Fever]

You are right they were not buyingout of every game. But they are starting to make it more and more. so thats why. You have to call it out before it becomes second nature. and thats all I was trying to say

[JackJD]

Interesting reading. One of the early posts suggested only the Bison (posters on this thread) were REALLY upset and no one from SDSU or Cal Poly (posters on this thread) was complaining.

There are differences between my state and my neighbors to the north. They're all blondes. Some of us have darker hair. They sometimes spell like Canadians (I saw the word "colour" in a Bison post on another thread). They have an income tax; we don't. We're slower to rile (has to do with longer winters up there or the fact that they have to deal with UND fans) but once we're riled up, we have long memories.

Anyway, I understand completely the financial reasons why the Montana schools have tinkered with their schedules. But, I believe the Montana schools have done so at their peril. Right now, there are a lot of D1-AA football fanatics who believe (and I am convinced, rightly so) that NDSU is head and shoulders above both Montana schools and from this point, will remain so for years to come. There will be a day when Montana and MSU will want to measure their abilities against the Bison and you may not be given a chance to do so...or, if you're given that chance, it'll be on terms selected by NDSU. It'll purely be a matter of your Economics 101. NDSU will just have better choices. NDSU has such a quality program that it doesn't have to put up with solving Montana's financial problems.

Since the 0-3 start seems to tarnish the Jacks record just a tad, I'll wait until one week from today and then make the same argument for the Jacks (that is, after we beat the Bison for the GWFC championships in real smash-mouth football :) )

In short, SDSU getting dumped by the Griz doesn't tick me off too much...we are big boys and can protect ourselves adequately with contracts that deal with such situations. However, behavior like that causes other problems which affects the Jacks financially and we just won't afford to do that in the future. I don't care if we don't see the Griz until the playoffs in 08.

[JackJD]

The UM AD is sorta right. Chartering can get pretty pricey, I can speak from experience having worked a bit in the aviation industry. But still, $100k to get to SDSU seems a bit steep. And given that UM has the aviation hookup with Denny Washington, I am a bit miffed by that too.

I understand the UM AD's point. Once you're in the air, the cost doesn't change a lot whether you're flying to an opponent in a neighboring state or to an opponent several states away.

SDSU knows about those charter costs, having paid them two years in a row to go to Montana.

[Tod]

Interesting reading. One of the early posts suggested only the Bison (posters on this thread) were REALLY upset and no one from SDSU or Cal Poly (posters on this thread) was complaining.

There are differences between my state and my neighbors to the north. They're all blondes. Some of us have darker hair. They sometimes spell like Canadians (I saw the word "colour" in a Bison post on another thread). They have an income tax; we don't. We're slower to rile (has to do with longer winters up there or the fact that they have to deal with UND fans) but once we're riled up, we have long memories.

Anyway, I understand completely the financial reasons why the Montana schools have tinkered with their schedules. But, I believe the Montana schools have done so at their peril. Right now, there are a lot of D1-AA football fanatics who believe (and I am convinced, rightly so) that NDSU is head and shoulders above both Montana schools and from this point, will remain so for years to come. There will be a day when Montana and MSU will want to measure their abilities against the Bison and you may not be given a chance to do so...or, if you're given that chance, it'll be on terms selected by NDSU. It'll purely be a matter of your Economics 101. NDSU will just have better choices. NDSU has such a quality program that it doesn't have to put up with solving Montana's financial problems.

Since the 0-3 start seems to tarnish the Jacks record just a tad, I'll wait until one week from today and then make the same argument for the Jacks (that is, after we beat the Bison for the GWFC championships in real smash-mouth football :) )

In short, SDSU getting dumped by the Griz doesn't tick me off too much...we are big boys and can protect ourselves adequately with contracts that deal with such situations. However, behavior like that causes other problems which affects the Jacks financially and we just won't afford to do that in the future. I don't care if we don't see the Griz until the playoffs in 08.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Damn! My achin' belly! xlolx xlolx xlolx

Ok, who believes that? You could argue that today, but for years to come. WTF????? xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[JackJD]

Hey, that's what we need on this thread, a little levity! Time will tell and I'll bet on the Bison.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Why are we whacking on the Griz? The Griz have NEVER backed out of a contract with NDSU. They are reluctant to schedule us on the road, but then again, they don't have to...... Plus, they make a hell of a lot of dough with home games......even if they play Billings West.

As for Montana State........I suspect it was a business decision and the MSU AD decided he did not want the team to have two rough OOC games next year......so when deciding to take one he took TX A&M for the $450,000 payday..........a good business decision. Who can fault him......I sure won't. I hate it that we are not playing the Cats in our house......I hate that this would have been a huge and electric game......but from the Cats perspective it was probably the right call........

[No_Skill]

Hmmmm...I think the fans of the Dakota schools need to back off just a tad. We are the new kids on the block, and I don't think we want to come off as newbie wannabees. :bang:

The Montana schools have EARNED their place in DI-AA. :bow: Just as we will have to EARN ours, and we are well on our way. :hurray:

[BisonBacker]

I say just let the thread die a quick and painless death! Tired of talking about it and hearing all the back and forth. Been to Bisonville and to the cats board with it. Enough is enough, I looking forward to next weeks game.

[Da Bison]

What would the Griz AD say if one of their opponents decided at the last minute that they didn't want to spend the $100k to go to Miz. and never showed up.

That program would also be making a business decision.

Note to the MT AD's "what you sow, you also shall reap"

[Bison05]

OMG can we lock this thread down or something, its a broken record.

[grizbeer]

The thing is, this thread at it's heart isn't about UM and MSU, it is about I-AA, and it's ability to survive in the west. The worst kept secret in the west is that most I-AA teams have sugar-plum dreams of a I-A membership. Montana and MSU are making that seem inevitable by backing out of home and home. NDSU and SDSU seem secure in the great west, but what of Cal Poly, UCD, and other western powers with money. Can they afford to stay in a conference w/o an auto bid, and playing on the road all the time? Only time will tell, but it is not the situation we expected.

[Kill'em]

NDSU was giving NU money (or other consideration) to come to Fargo, regardless (logic being a Rocky Hager homecoming would sell more tickets). The issue was HOW MUCH NU got. The idea was that if NU didn't ask for a return, the "guarantee" would be larger.

NU is owed home games by a bunch of schools (NW State, YSU, Holy Cross, and likely after next year Cal-Davis), so adding NDSU to the list would probably have been silly, so they took the extra cash.
Y'all still owe us!

[GrizFoo]

I'm so relieved to see some bison fans seeing what B.S. some of the crap posted here is. I was really beginning to wonder if all NDSU fans thought the Bison were the center of every other teams world.

There are 120 some other I-AA teams that the cats/Griz don't schedule, there are other teams they buy out, yet bison fans are the first I've seen actually say they though the Griz were "scared" to play them.

We haven't scheduled a home or away game against UC Davis, Youngstown, or Iona... I suppose the Griz are scared of all of them too. To the small portion of bison fans here, and the larger portion on bisonville, who think fear has anything to do with it, get over yourself, or I should say get over thinking NDSU is the first team they should think of when building a schedule.